U代表都市主义

这里是99%隐形。

This is 99% Invisible.

我是罗曼·马尔斯。

I'm Roman Mars.

一个好的社区应该实现若干重要功能。

A good neighborhood should accomplish a number of important functions.

一个好的社区能保障人们的安全。

A good neighborhood keeps people safe.

一个好的社区会让你感到自己是集体的一部分。

A good neighborhood makes you feel like you're a part of something.

一个好的社区能让居民的生活总体变得美好。

A good neighborhood makes the lives of its residents just generally good.

并非所有人都幸运地在这样的社区长大，但半个多世纪以来，全世界数以百万计的孩子们至少通过电视机体验过这种生活。

Not all of us were lucky enough to grow up in a neighborhood like that, but for over half a century, millions and millions of kids around the world at least got to experience it through their television sets.

我认为它塑造了许多孩子对世界的认知、与人相处的方式，以及他们对理想生活的想象。

I think it it has formed so many children's views of the world and how to interact with people and how they think life should be.

这是安娜·科黛。

This is Anna Koday.

她是《纽约时报》报道建筑环境与公共空间的记者。

She's a journalist who covers the built environment and public space for The New York Times.

它不仅塑造了儿童教育，还影响了我们实际的建筑环境。

Like, it's actually shaped, not only children's education, but also our physical built environment.

现在美国许多城市都有街道被正式更名为芝麻街。

Like, at this point, there are actual streets that are renamed Sesame Street in cities across America.

最近，她撰写了关于世界上最具影响力的街区之一——芝麻街的文章。

Recently, she wrote about one of the most influential city blocks in the world, Sesame Street.

和数百万孩子一样，安娜从小就是艾摩的粉丝，这也是她写这篇文章的灵感来源。

Like millions of other kids, Anna grew up an Elmo fan, which is what kind of inspired the article.

我私心想看看芝麻街的拍摄场地。

I selfishly wanted to see the set of Sesame Street.

所以我就想，怎样才能构思出一个符合我报道领域的故事呢？

So I was like, how can I come up with a story that fits into my beach?

有没有什么好玩又傻气的事情可以和其中一个布偶一起做？

Is there, like, some just like something fun and silly we could do with one of the Muppets.

比如，艾蒙能不能带我们参观他的公寓，就像来个公寓导览那样？

Like, could Elmo show us around his apart like an apartment tour?

顺便说，我百分百会看艾蒙的建筑文摘导览。

By the way, I'd 100% watch the Elmo Architectural Digest tour.

我越想越觉得，我们其实没怎么见过他的家。

I was thinking more and more, and I was like, we don't really see that much of his home.

这其实不是重点。

It's not really about that.

更像是关于邻里和社区的故事。

It's more like like the neighborhood and the community.

五十多年来，《芝麻街》一直在教授孩子们语言、数学和核心发展课程。

For over fifty years, Sesame Street has been teaching children language, math, and core development lessons.

但安娜认为，这个节目也在潜移默化中教育孩子们什么是良好的城市规划和健康社区应有的样貌。

But Anna contends that the show has also been quietly educating kids about good urbanism and what a healthy neighborhood should look like.

我的文章发表后，很多人联系我说，我觉得这就是为什么我一直想住在步行友好社区，可能是因为小时候看了《芝麻街》塑造了我对生活方式的理想。

After my article came out, I had a lot of people reach out and say, you know, I think this is why I always wanted to live in a walkable neighborhood was because I watched Sesame Street growing up and that kind of shaped my idea of how life should be.

有趣的是，在节目中你能看到布偶、孩子和成年人。

And what's funny is like on the show, you see Muppets, you see children, and you see adults.

因此你有各种不同的方式来想象生活。

So you have all these different ways of of kind of imagining life.

但要告诉你如何到达《芝麻街》，我们得先从一位名叫琼·甘兹·库尼的女士说起。

But in order for us to tell you how to get how to get to Sesame Street, we first need to begin with a woman named Joan Ganz Cooney.

研究贯穿于节目的每个细节。

Research is woven into the total fabric of the show.

每个环节都经过最严格的评审——也就是孩子们自己的测试与评估。

Every segment is being tested and evaluated by the toughest critics of all, the children themselves.

可以说，我们的节目在播出时将是电视史上研究最彻底的节目。

I think it's fair to say that by the time our program goes on the air, it will be the most thoroughly researched show in the history of the medium.

琼·甘兹·库尼是位媒体高管。

Joan Ganz Cooney was this media executive.

她刚因一部关于反贫困计划的纪录片获得了艾美奖。

She had just won an Emmy for this documentary she'd done on the war on poverty program.

然后，没错，接下来自然就是可爱的小怪物们了。

And, yeah, naturally, cute little monsters are next.

不。

No.

但她将电视视为推动变革的工具。

But she viewed television as this tool to affect change.

库尼曾是记者，后转型为电视制片人，六十年代美国诸多社会问题激发了她。

Cooney was a former journalist turned television producer who was galvanized by so many of the social issues plaguing nineteen sixties America.

这部纪录片的制作让库尼深刻意识到早期儿童教育中的不平等问题。

And working on the documentary made Cooney deeply aware of the inequalities in early childhood education specifically.

1966年，也就是她获得艾美奖的同一年，她参与了一项名为《电视在学前教育中的潜在用途》的研究。

In 1966, the same year she won the Emmy, she worked on this study called the potential uses of television in preschool education.

当时的电视节目被时任联邦通信委员会主席称为'巨大的荒原'。

Television programming at the time was described as a, quote, vast wasteland by the then FCC chairman.

但库尼意识到，如果电视已经吸引了全国儿童的注意力，这种力量可以被利用起来做好事，特别是如果这是一档面向幼儿的电视节目。

But Cooney realized that if television was already capturing the attention of children across the country, that power could be harnessed and put to good use, particularly if it were a television show for young children.

她写道，拥有电视的家庭比拥有浴缸、电话、吸尘器、烤面包机或每日订阅报纸的家庭还要多。

She wrote that more households have televisions than bathtubs, telephones, vacuum cleaners, toasters, or a regular daily newspaper.

因此她将电视视为一种工具，认为这是人人都能接触到的教育方式，尤其适合儿童教育。

So she viewed this TV as this tool that everyone had this accessible way to educate people and especially kids.

这项研究最终促成了《芝麻街》工作坊的创立。

This study led to the creation of the Sesame Street workshop.

当这个工作坊节目播出时，影片中出现的木偶将与真人共同出演，他们会将每个片段置于恰当的学习情境中，包括字母识别、数字认知、基础推理能力，以及增强对自我和周围世界的认知。

When the workshop goes on the air, the puppets you'll see in the film will be joined by real people who will set each segment into the proper learning context, recognition of the letters of the alphabet, numbers, basic reasoning skills, and a better awareness of themselves and the world around them.

这里还有一位值得一提的人物是约翰·斯通，他也是该节目的早期创作者之一。

Another person worth mentioning here is John Stone, who is also one of the early creators of the show.

约翰·斯通是一位作家、制片人和导演，在塑造《芝麻街》最终呈现的视觉风格与整体感觉方面发挥了巨大作用。

John Stone was a writer, producer, and director and had a huge hand in shaping the look and feel of what Sesame Street would eventually become.

据斯通所说，他的灵感来自一个最意想不到的来源——纽约市。

According to Stone, he drew his inspiration from one of the most unlikely sources, New York City.

地铁环境脏乱且危险。

The subways are crummy, and they're dangerous.

你会被推搡。

You get pushed.

你会被挤撞。

You get shoved.

有时还会在地铁里遭遇抢劫。

Sometimes you get mugged in the subway.

好吧，我想白天我会稍微收敛些。

Well, I guess During the day I'll pull back a little bit.

当时这座城市状况不佳，人们对它的评价也很负面。

The city was not doing well at the time, and people were not viewing the city positively at the time.

在二十世纪六十年代末，纽约市正饱受犯罪率上升和社会动荡的困扰。

In the late nineteen sixties, New York City was struggling with crime rates and social unrest.

人们正成群结队地离开这座城市。

People were leaving the city in droves.

当时发生了骚乱。

There was riots.

与此同时，郊区开始发展，我们正处于战后住房热潮中，富裕的白人正成群结队地搬往郊区。

And at the same time, suburbs are starting to grow, and we're in this postwar housing boom, and wealthy white people are moving out to the suburbs in hordes.

这种现象后来当然被称为'白人逃离'。

And this would later be called white flight, of course.

总而言之，当时城市并不被视为理想的居住地，尤其是纽约——那些有能力离开且想要离开的人确实都在搬走。

All that is to say that, cities were not viewed as the place to be at that time, especially New York people who could leave and who wanted to leave were in fact leaving.

但大约在1968年这段时间，纽约城市联盟发起了一项公共服务运动，旨在说服人们关注城市衰败的社区，并停止搬离城市。

But around this time in 1968, a public service campaign was launched by the New York Urban Coalition to convince people to care about the city's blighted neighborhoods and to stop leaving town.

这项运动被称为'在乎行动'。

It was called the give a damn campaign.

近一半的非白人被迫生活在不合标准的住房中。

Almost half of all nonwhites are forced to live in substandard housing.

你可以通过纽约城市联盟来帮助他们。

You can help them through the New York Urban Coalition.

其中包含一则电视广告，展示了哈莱姆区的孩子们在排水沟里玩耍的画面，广告标语再次出现：'关心一下'。

And there was a television ad that was part of it, and it showed it showed children playing in gutters in Harlem, and it had the tagline again, give a damn.

提供工作，提供资金，关心一下。

Give jobs, give money, give a damn.

当时正在参与《芝麻街》工作的约翰·斯通，对于这个节目将会成为什么样子还没有明确的想法。

John Stone, who was working on Sesame Street, he didn't have a clear idea of what it was gonna be at the time.

但他正在制作这档儿童节目时，偶然在电视上看到了这则广告。

But he's working on this children's show, and he's kind of watching the TV, and he sees this ad.

这对他来说就像是一个顿悟的时刻。

And it's this, like, epiphany moment for him.

他心想，等等。

He's like, wait.

我明白了。

I've got it.

节目应该以城市街道为背景。

It needs to be set on a city streets.

事实上，在我的文章发表后，他的孩子们给我写了信。

And actually, so after my article came out, his children wrote to me.

而且，我本来很希望能采访他，如果他还活着的话。但他的孩子们来信说，他总爱讲那个故事——当他提出要把节目背景设在街道上时，琼的脸色瞬间煞白。

And, like, I I would have loved to have interviewed him if he was still alive, but his children wrote saying that he loved to tell the story of, like, when he had the idea to set the show on on a street, the color from Joan's face just drained.

他当时就说，等等。

He was just like, wait.

什么？

What?

我们该怎么实现这个想法？

Like, how are we gonna do that?

斯通和他的布景设计师在哈莱姆区、上西区和布朗克斯区实地考察，综合设计出芝麻街123号褐砂石建筑的外观，并刻意保留了一些粗粝的细节。

Stone and his set designer scouted locations around Harlem, the Upper West Side, and The Bronx to build an amalgam of what the brownstone of 123 Sesame Street would look like and chose not to polish away some of the rougher details.

那里有垃圾。

There's trash.

还有像是用浆糊贴的海报。

There's, like, wheat paste posters.

我的意思是，奥斯卡住在一个垃圾桶里，而且不仅仅是他住在垃圾桶里那么简单。

There's I mean, Oscar lives in a trash can like and I mean and and it's not just that he lives in the trash can.

街道上确实有真实的垃圾存在。

There's like actual litter on the streets.

而且这栋褐砂石建筑并不是那种光洁无瑕的褐砂石。

And the the brownstone is not this like pristine brownstone.

建筑侧面有煤烟痕迹，看起来就像真实的城市街道。

It has soot on the sides, and you can see that it just looks like a real city street.

他们没有美化它。

They didn't beautify it.

但从某种程度上说，纽约街区确实是斯通和库尼唯一能为《芝麻街》这类节目设定的场景，这取决于他们想要触达的受众。

But in a way, a New York City block was really the only place Stone and Cooney could have set a show like Sesame Street, and this was because of who they were trying to reach.

这个节目很大程度上旨在缩小教育差距。

The show was very much aimed at closing the achievement gap.

对吧？

Right?

他们希望接触并教育城市贫民区的贫困儿童。

They wanted to reach and educate inner city children, impoverished children.

根据斯通的理念，实现这一目标的方式是创造一个孩子们熟悉的环境。

And the way to do that, according to Stone, is to create this environment that they're familiar with.

他想创造一个让孩子们感到熟悉、像家一样的环境。

He wanted to create an environment that would look familiar to them and look like home to them.

但这里发生的不是骚乱、犯罪等可怕的事情。

But what's going on is not riots and crime and all this awful stuff.

而是一个和谐、融合、快乐的小村庄，人们和睦相处。

It's this, like, harmonious, integrated, happy little village where where people get along.

即使遇到问题，他们也会彼此协商解决。

And if they have problems, they will resolve them with each other.

在纽约市声誉好坏参半的时期，《芝麻街》刻意选择展现这类城市生活的积极面。

During a time when the city's reputation was mixed at best, Sesame Street deliberately chose to portray the more positive aspects of living in a place like New York City.

它描绘了一个运作良好的城市贫民社区。

It depicted an inner city neighborhood that worked.

通过这样的方式，该节目发现自己与最具影响力的城市社区活力倡导者之一——作家兼活动家简·雅各布斯的理念不谋而合。

And in doing so, the show found itself aligned with the ideas of one of the most prominent advocates of vibrant urban communities, the writer and activist, Jane Jacobs.

有些话被说得太频繁，以至于没人再思考它们的真正含义。

Some things are said so often that nobody thinks of what they mean anymore.

例如，多年来我们一直听到'把孩子带离街头'这样的说法。

For instance, for years, we've been hearing, take the children off the streets.

离开街头，然后去哪里呢？

Off the streets and into where?

虽然我们还没有专门制作过关于简·雅各布斯的《99%隐形》节目，但她的影响力几乎渗透在我们节目报道的每一个故事中。

Although we haven't had a specific Jane Jacobs episode of 99 p I, her influence touches nearly every story we cover on the show.

雅各布斯根本就不是城市规划师。

Jacobs wasn't an urban planner at all.

她是格林尼治村的居民，亲眼目睹了二十世纪五十年代贫民窟清理和城市复兴运动对社区的破坏。

She was a resident of Greenwich Village who saw firsthand how slum clearance and revitalization efforts in the nineteen fifties devastated communities.

相反，她倡导混合用途、行人友好的城市，以及以社区为基础的城市规划方法。

Instead, she championed mixed use pedestrian friendly cities and a community based approach to urban planning.

简·雅各布斯是一位杰出的城市生活观察者。

Jane Jacobs is this great observer of urban life.

她是城市动态的敏锐观察专家，只是关注着曼哈顿自己社区里发生的事情。

She's an expert noticer of what's going on in the city, and she's just paying attention to things in her own neighborhood in Manhattan.

她记录下这些许多人熟悉却视为理所当然的互动场景。

And she's writing down all these interactions that a lot of people are familiar with but have kinda taken for granted.

1961年，雅各布斯将这些观察集结成书，出版了《美国大城市的死与生》。

In 1961, Jacobs compiled these observations and released a book called The Death and Life of Great American Cities.

这是那种能成为时代精神一部分的著作。

It's just one of those books that becomes part of the zeitgeist.

它影响深远，广受欢迎。

It is hugely popular, hugely influential.

就像《女性的奥秘》中的概念弥漫在空气中一样，这本书的理念也深入人心。

The same way the concepts from the feminine mystique are in the air, the concepts from this book are also in the air.

它堪称城市规划者的圣经。

It's like the bible for urbanists.

在书中，雅各布斯将矛头指向了罗伯特·摩西等不理解社区实际运作方式的城市规划者。

In the book, Jacobs took aim at urban planners like Robert Moses who didn't understand how neighborhoods actually functioned.

她认为城市规划者不应推倒重建、进一步隔离社区，而应考虑居民的需求。

Instead of bulldozing, rebuilding, and further segregating neighborhoods, she believed that city planners should consider the needs of the residents.

假设我们真的让人行道发挥它们最擅长的作用，假设我们不再不再试图提供劣质替代品。

Suppose we actually let the sidewalks do the job that they can do best, and suppose we stop trying to provide poor substitutes for them.

《美国大城市的死与生》几乎是对城市已有优点的赞美诗。

The death and life of great American cities was almost a love letter to what the city was already doing right.

她在书中归纳出了一套她观察到的所有繁荣城市都具备的条件。

And in it, she identified a set of conditions that she observed every thriving city was built on.

由于《芝麻街》的创作者在描绘健康城市社区的模样，你实际上能在观看节目时看到简·雅各布斯原则的体现。

And because the creators of Sesame Street were depicting what a healthy urban neighborhood looks like, you can actually see Jane Jacobs principles playing out as you watch the show.

《芝麻街》最终几乎成为了简·雅各布斯式乌托邦的蓝图。

Sesame Street ends up being this blueprint for a Jane Jacobsen utopia almost.

她书中的诸多原则都在她描绘的那个街区中得到了体现，我认为这是因为芝麻街的街区非常真实地反映了纽约的一个真实街区。

You have so many different principles that she outlined in her book play out on that actual block, and I think that's because the actual block of Sesame Street very closely mirrors a real New York block.

接下来的部分由数字四为您呈现，因为简·雅各布斯认为有四个不同条件对活跃街区至关重要。

This next section is brought to you by the number four because there are four different conditions that Jane Jacobs believed were key to a vibrant block.

从第一个条件开始。

Starting with condition number one.

一个街区应当具备

A neighborhood should have

多重功能。

multiple functions.

我是说，这是个混合用途的社区。

I mean, it's a mixed use neighborhood.

这里有自助洗衣店。

You have your laundromat.

有便利店、杂货店。

You have your convenience store, grocery store.

还有一栋多户公寓楼。

You have a multifamily apartment building.

在那里你所需的一切应有尽有。

You have everything you need there.

它永远不会完全死气沉沉、空无一人。

It'll never be totally dead and empty.

比如，会有人出门上班，也有人进来购物，还会有孩子们在街上玩耍。

Like, you'll have people going off to work, but then you'll have someone coming in to go shopping, and then you'll have people, like, kids out on the street playing.

这样总能保持一种热闹的氛围。

It'll always kinda be lively that way.

第二个条件。

Condition number two.

城市街区应该短小。

City blocks should be short.

街区短小的美妙之处——尤其在芝麻街——在于你能与更多人接触。

The beauty of the blocks being short, especially on Sesame Street, is that you have more contact with people.

在现实城市中也是如此。

In a real city too, that's the case.

对吧？

Right?

当街区较短时，行人可以拥有更多不同的路径选择、体验和偶遇机会。

When blocks are shorter, it allows for many different paths and many different experiences and many different casual encounters for pedestrians.

你不断转弯就能看到新事物，这样更有活力——我想找个更好的表达方式——但这样确实更有活力。

You're turning corners all the time and you're seeing new things and it's just more I'm trying to think of a better way to say it, but it's more dynamic that way.

第三个条件。

Condition number three.

需要有老建筑。

There is a need for old buildings.

新建筑和老建筑必须在一个区域内共存。

New buildings and old buildings must mingle in a single district.

在

In

如果你没听清楚的话，第三个条件是需要有年代感的建筑，新旧建筑必须在一个区域内和谐共存。

case you didn't quite catch that, the third condition is there is a need for aged buildings, and both old and new buildings must mingle together in a single district.

这是因为新建筑造价昂贵，租金会反映建设成本。

This is because new buildings are expensive, and rent reflects construction costs.

如果一个社区只有新建筑，高昂的成本会驱赶走商业多样性和那些负担得起的人群。

If a neighborhood only has new buildings, the cost drives out diversity of businesses and people who can afford to stay there.

你可以在《芝麻街》中看到这种动态演变。

You could see this dynamic playing out on Sesame Street.

九十年代有一次重新设计，布景师添加了新酒店、新公寓楼，而褐石建筑依然保留。

There was a redesign in the nineties, and the set designers added a new hotel, a new apartment building, and the brownstone was still there.

当时有位设计师这样描述——这是他的原话。

And one of the designers at the time said it was and this is his quote.

他说这栋建筑的设计意图是让它看起来像绅士化浪潮中的幸存者。

He said it was meant to look like a survivor of gentrification.

但我想说的是，《芝麻街》正是这样新旧交融的范例。

But I say that to say you have this mix of the new and the old on Sesame Street.

第四个条件。

Condition number 4.

不想参与，艾利。

Don't wanna get in, Eli.

你只是在逼我说些话。

You're just making me say stuff.

为什么我不能想说什么就说什么？

Why can't I say whatever I want?

我们的小主持人显然在现场崩溃了，所以最后一个问题我来处理。

Our kid narrators are clearly coming apart at the scene, so I'll handle this last one.

第四个条件是社区应该拥有密集的人口。

The fourth condition is that a neighborhood should have a dense concentration of people.

这对健康城市至关重要，因为高密度能支撑混合功能街区的本地商业，更多街道上的眼睛也让社区更安全。

This is key to a healthy city because high density supports the local businesses of a mixed use neighborhood, and having more eyes on the streets helps keep them safer.

你看，所有这些原则都是相互关联的。

Like, all of these principles are intertwined.

对吧？

Right?

比如，人口密集也与社区具备多种功能密不可分。

Like, the dense concentration of people also goes hand in hand with the neighborhood serving multiple functions.

就像，那里既有居住的居民，可能还有人在洗衣服，同时还有像胡珀先生这样的工作者。

Like, you have people just living there and maybe doing their laundry, and then you also have people working there like mister Hooper.

所以无论何时那里总是有很多人。

So there's always at any given time a lot of people there.

雅各布斯认为，当这四个条件同时满足时，城市会变得更安全、经济更稳定、更多样化、更有活力。

Jacobs believed that when these four conditions come together, cities become safer, more economically stable, more diverse, and more alive.

当这种情况发生时，你可以在人行道层面上看到一切正在展开。

And that when that happens, you can see it all unfolding on the sidewalk level.

雅各布斯甚至识别出一种当所有这些元素协调一致时行人会不自觉地跳起的自发性舞蹈，人行道芭蕾。

Jacobs even identified a type of spontaneous dance that pedestrians unknowingly perform when all these elements align, The sidewalk ballet.

简·雅各布斯创造了‘人行道芭蕾’这个术语，指的是发生在公共人行道空间里那些随意即兴的互动。

The sidewalk ballet, is the term that Jane Jacobs coined to refer to all of those, like, casual improvised interactions that will happen in the public sphere of the sidewalk.

这是邻居、店主、孩子、工人和陌生人在共享空间中进行的系统性舞蹈——他们穿行其中，辨认熟悉面孔，展开即兴交谈，并彼此照应。

It's the systematic dance of neighbors, shopkeepers, kids, workers, and strangers moving through shared space, recognizing familiar faces, having spontaneous conversations, and watching out for one another.

这是一个正常运转的社区最直观的体现。

It's the visible manifestation of a neighborhood that's working the way it should.

想象一下走在城市街区，你会看到一位妈妈推着婴儿车。

You can think about walking down a city block, and you'll see a mom pushing a stroller.

你会看到店主正在收摊打烊。

You'll see the, shopkeeper, like, rolling up their for the day.

会看到有人在遛狗。

You'll see someone walking their dog.

或许还能遇见认识的邻居。

Maybe you see a neighbor you know.

所有这些与你擦肩而过的人们，你们可能互相问好。

And it's all of these, these people passing you by, and maybe you're saying hello.

实际上我们在《芝麻街》第一集的开场就能看到这种人行道芭蕾。

We actually see the sidewalk ballet playing out in the very first scene of the very first episode of Sesame Street.

莎莉，你从没见过像芝麻街这样的街道。

Sally, you've never seen a street like Sesame Street.

这里发生着一切。

Everything happens here.

你会爱上这里的。

You're love it.

戈登是节目中为数不多的人类角色之一，他和妻子苏珊共同拥有芝麻街123号的褐石公寓。

Gordon is one of the few human characters on the show, and he owns the 123 Sesame Street Brownstone with his wife, Susan.

在这个最初的场景中，戈登正带着一位新邻居——名叫莎莉的小女孩——在街区四处参观。

In this first scene, Gordon is showing a new neighbor, a young girl named Sally, around the block.

他打招呼说：嗨。

And he's like, hi.

那是胡珀先生。

There's mister Hooper.

哦，那是大鸟。

Oh, there's Big Bird.

你好啊，大鸟。

Hello, Big Bird.

哦，嗨，戈登。

Oh, hi, Gordon.

你好吗？

How are you?

一个男人从胡珀先生那里买了份报纸。

A man buys a newspaper from mister Hooper.

戈登的妻子苏珊从窗户探出头来打招呼。

Gordon's wife, Susan, pops her head out the window to say hello.

哦，你刚搬来。

Oh, you just moved in.

是啊。

Yeah.

那晚点你会回来看我，和我一起喝牛奶吃饼干吗？

Well, will you come back and see me later and have some milk cookies with me?

好的。

Okay.

待会儿见。

I'll see you later.

我要展示

I'm gonna show

周围 你看到孩子们在街上玩耍，就像经典的人行道芭蕾。

around You're seeing children playing on the street, and it's like the quintessential sidewalk ballet.

这些都是未经规划且微不足道的人际互动小瞬间，但汇聚起来，会让你感觉自己是更宏大事物的一部分。

Just little moments of human interaction that are unplanned and pretty minor, but altogether, they make you feel like you're part of something greater.

我们在《芝麻街》中经常看到这种情景。

And we see that all the time on Sesame Street.

简·雅各布斯就像《芝麻街》里的角色一样教导我们：强大的社区不能仅靠自上而下的规划建立，她曾说'城市之所以能够为所有人提供所需，仅仅是因为且只有当它们由所有人共同创造时才能实现'。

Jane Jacobs, much like the characters on Sesame Street, taught us that a strong neighborhood can't just be built from the top down and that, quote, cities have the capability of providing something for everybody only because and only when they are created by everybody, end quote.

但当然，并非所有城市规划者都认同这种社区驱动的理念。

But, of course, not every urban planner bought into this community driven vision.

当简·雅各布斯与罗伯特·摩西对抗时，《芝麻街》也面临着罗纳德·格朗普的挑战。

And while Jane Jacobs came up against Robert Moses, Sesame Street faced Ronald Grump.

Grump先生，我们想和您谈谈关于芝麻街的计划。

Mister Grump, we wanna talk to you about your plans for Sesame Street.

我的计划？

My plans?

你自己看吧。

See for yourself.

从芝麻街的废墟中拔地而起的是Grump闪闪发光的塔楼。

Out of the ruins of Sesame Street rises the gleaming tower of Grump.

123号芝麻街在哪里？

Where's 123 Sesame Street?

很高兴你问这个问题。

I'm glad you asked that.

它现在是一家豪华精品店，名叫'问价即表示你买不起'。

It is now a luxurious boutique called, if you have to ask, you cannot afford it.

是的。

Yes.

这是乔·佩西为罗纳德·格朗普配音的声音。

That is the voice of Joe Pesci playing Ronald Grump.

罗纳德·格朗普是一名房地产开发商，或许其灵感来源于现实世界中的某个人物。

Ronald Grump is a real estate developer, perhaps perhaps inspired by someone in the real world.

他由乔·佩西饰演，来到芝麻街后便提出要建造这座华丽新塔楼的计划。

And he's played by Joe Pesci and he comes on to Sesame Street and he's got these plans for this glamorous new tower that he wants to build.

所有布偶角色都开始惊慌失措，纷纷喊道：我们该怎么办？

And all the Muppets start freaking out, and they're like, what do we do?

我们就要被赶出家园了。

We're gonna get kicked out of our homes.

你不能这样对待芝麻街。

You can't do this to Sesame Street.

这里是个特别的地方。

It's a special place.

当然，由于这是儿童节目，芝麻街的居民最终战胜了可怕的罗纳德·格朗普，保住了他们的褐砂石建筑。

Of course, because this is a children's show, the residents of Sesame Street were eventually able to overcome the terrible Ronald Grump and save their brownstone.

但面临生存威胁的不仅仅是《芝麻街》中的角色。

But it isn't just the characters on Sesame Street who have faced existential threats.

这些年来，节目本身也不得不应对多次危机。

The show itself has had to navigate several over the years.

由于《芝麻街》部分资金来自公共财政，并且以城市为背景呈现多元化角色阵容，它被指责带有明显的政治倾向。

Since Sesame Street is partly funded by public money and depicts a diverse cast in an urban setting, it's been accused of being overtly political.

我在为这篇文章做研究时，特别关注了对布景的批评意见。

I was looking specifically when I was researching this article, criticism of the set in particular.

在这方面，我主要发现来自右翼评论员本·夏皮罗的观点。

And the main thing I found on that was from the right wing pundit, Ben Shapiro, of course.

他形容这个布景'破旧不堪'。

And he called the set dingy.

以下是他的原话：

So this is what he said.

与其他儿童节目不同，《芝麻街》的故事发生在一个破旧的场景——城市街区街道上。

Unlike other children's shows, Sesame Street took place in a dingy setting, an urban neighborhood street.

其中一个角色，脾气暴躁的奥斯卡，住在一个垃圾桶里。

One of the characters, Oscar the Grouch, lived in a garbage can.

他还说这个节目是为了使城市自由派生活方式合法化。

And then he also says that the show is about legitimizing urban liberal lifestyles.

他似乎真的把任何城市街区，哪怕是虚构的，都视为这种大城市自由派理念的一部分。

It really seems like he's viewing any urban block, even a fictional one, as part of this big city liberal kind of idea.

由于这个节目作为深受喜爱的机构已存在半个多世纪，《芝麻街》对这类攻击有一定的免疫力。

Because the show has been such a beloved institution for over half a century, Sesame Street has been somewhat immune to attacks like these.

但现在，公共媒体正受到威胁，《芝麻街》也卷入了这场造成许多伤亡的文化战争。

But right now, public media is under threat, and Sesame Street has gotten caught up in a culture war with a lot of casualties.

我认为曾经有段时间人们会害怕触碰像《芝麻街》这样深受喜爱的节目，但这种恐惧现在已经基本消失了。

I think there was a point where people would be too scared to touch something as beloved as Sesame Street, but the fear of that has gone out the window pretty much.

《芝麻街》可能正面临着几十年来最大的挑战，这很遗憾。

Sesame Street is facing probably its biggest challenge in decades, which is a shame.

因为在美国人越来越不认识邻居、社区比以往任何时候都更分裂的当下，《芝麻街》依然向我们展示了一个不同的世界——一个不同背景的人们真正相互交谈、相互关照、不仅和平而且快乐地共享空间的街区。

Because at a time when Americans increasingly don't know their neighbors and communities feel more fractured than ever, Sesame Street still shows us something different, a block where people of all backgrounds actually talk to each other, look out for each other, share space not just peacefully, but joyfully.

这种愿景如今看来几乎具有激进色彩，或许展现理想主义与现实之间的差距一直都是节目的本意。

That vision feels almost radical now, and maybe depicting that gap between idealism and reality has always been the point.

你知道吗，我认为《芝麻街》非常理想主义。

You know, I think Sesame Street is very idealistic.

我认为创作者们想给孩子们展现城市生活可能的样子，但我想说，这种理想主义本身也蕴含着力量。

I think the creators wanted to give children a vision of how urban life could be, but there's also a power within that kind of idealism, I would say.

这种理想主义最有力的例证来自演员洛蕾塔·朗，她饰演了芝麻街123号褐石公寓的主人苏珊。

The strongest example of that idealism came from the actor Loretta Long, who played Susan, the owner of the one two three Sesame Street Brownstone.

这是她在回忆录中写到的内容。

And this is what this is what she said in her memoir.

我们不仅是荧幕上罕见的黑人夫妇，我们还拥有那栋房子。

Not only were we a black married couple, we also owned that house.

虽然我们有些奇怪的房客，比如大鸟、爱发牢骚的奥斯卡以及厄尼和伯特，但我们作为房东的形象，在电视上对黑人家庭而言并不常见。

We had some strange tenants like Big Bird, Oscar the Grouch, and Ernie and Bert, but we were landlords, which was not the typical case for black families on television.

我想这正说明了为什么有时候保持理想主义很重要。

And I think that kind of tells you why it's important to be idealistic at times.

这本来就是个有小怪物四处跑的节目。

It's already a show that has little monsters running around.

对吧？

Right?

既然如此，为什么不展示黑人拥有房产这样的内容呢？

Like, why not show something like black homeownership?

我们给孩子讲述的故事塑造了他们心中认为可能的事物。

The stories we tell our children shape what they believe is possible.

无论是关于他们未来值得拥有自己的房子，还是关于他们有能力建设更好的城市，又或是关于善良的重要性——幸运的是，我们有《芝麻街》来讲述这些。

So whether those stories are that they deserve to own a home one day or that they have the power to build better cities or that kindness matters, luckily, we have Sesame Street to tell them.

广告之后，我将与建筑评论家亚历山德拉·朗讨论她关于儿童与城市空间的普利策奖获奖文章。

After the break, I speak with architecture critic Alexandra Lang about her Pulitzer Prize winning essays on children and urban spaces.

请别走开。

Stay with us.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

关于《芝麻街》的讨论让我们更多地思考孩子与设计的关系，所以我们想再次邀请常驻嘉宾亚历山德拉·朗来到节目中。

All this talk about Sesame Street has got us thinking more about kids and design, so we wanted to have frequent contributor Alexandra Lang back on the show.

她是《童年的设计》一书的作者。

She's the author of the design of childhood.

和我一样，亚历山德拉也热爱《芝麻街》。

And like me, Alexandra loves Sesame Street.

她告诉我们，她最喜欢的片段是那个母亲让孩子去杂货店买三样特定物品的卡通情节。

She told us her favorite moment is the cartoon where a mother sends her kid to the grocery store for three very specific items.

别忘了买一条面包、一盒牛奶和一根黄油。

Now don't forget a loaf of bread, a container of milk, and a stick of butter.

我不会忘的。

I won't forget.

我记得。

I remember.

一条面包、一盒牛奶和一根黄油。

A loaf of bread, a container of milk, and a stick of butter.

一条面包、一盒牛奶和一根黄油。

A loaf of bread, a container of milk, and a stick of butter.

先生，我能买一条面包、一盒牛奶，还有...呃...我记不清了？

Mister, can I have a loaf of bread, a container of milk, and he I can't remember?

你看，我写的大部分内容都是关于给予孩子独立性的。

You know, so much of what I write about is about giving children independence.

就像我书的副标题里写的那样。

Like, it's right there in the subtitle of my book.

而这个小片段，我觉得完美诠释了为什么独立性对孩子如此重要。

And this little clip just, I feel perfectly illustrates why it's so empowering for kids to have independence.

那个孩子全神贯注地投入这个任务。

Like the kid is so fixed on this activity.

我们都见过孩子多么努力想要表现得更加成熟，给他们这种独立的机会...

Like we've all seen kids try, you know, so hard to be just that much more grown up and giving them opportunities like this to be independent.

这个例子就是最完美的诠释。

Like, that's it illustrates it perfectly.

那么，Alexandra，你保持着作为客座专家在《99%隐形》节目中出现次数最多的记录，自从我们上次邀请你以来发生了很多事，包括你赢得了普利策批评奖，这太棒了。

So, Alexandra, you hold the record for the most appearances of a guest expert on 99% Invisible, and a lot has happened since the last time we had you on, including that you won the Pulitzer Prize for criticism, which is amazing.

恭喜你。

Congratulations.

谢谢。

Thank you.

对我来说这依然感觉相当难以置信。

It still feels quite unbelievable to me too.

具体来说，你是因撰写关于设计与童年的文章而获得普利策奖的。

And specifically, you won the Pulitzer Prize for your writing about design and childhood.

没错。

That's right.

是的。

Yeah.

这是为彭博城市实验室撰写的一整个系列，关于建设更适宜家庭的城市。

It was a whole series, for Bloomberg City Lab on building more family friendly cities.

不错。

Nice.

再次恭喜你。

Well, congratulations again.

看着你取得成功真是太令人高兴了，我非常喜欢你的作品，这也是为什么你经常出现在节目中的原因。

It's just so much fun to watch your success, and I love your work and that's why you're on so much.

看到其他人也像我们一样认可并欣赏你的作品，真是件令人愉快的事。

And so it's a delight to see other people recognize it and enjoy it as much as as we do.

不过既然我们正处在芝麻街和城市空间这个话题里，我想稍微聊聊设计与童年的关系。

So but I wanna talk a little bit about design in childhood while we're in this space of Sesame Street and urban spaces.

你在报道中特别指出的一点是，有很多设计对青少年充满敌意。

And one of the things you identify in your reporting in particular, is that there's a lot of design that's hostile to teens.

比如，年幼的儿童还能获得一些支持。

Like, young children get a little bit of support.

体面的成年人在公共空间也能得到一些支持。

Respectable adults get some support in public spaces.

青少年在公共场所尤其被许多地方拒之门外。

Teens have lots of places cut off to them, particularly in public spaces.

你能谈谈这个问题吗？

Can you talk about that problem?

大体上说，游乐场是为0到12岁的儿童设计的。

It's like playgrounds by and large are designed for children from zero to 12.

如果青少年进入这些游乐场并开始喧闹，以非传统方式攀爬游乐设施等，家长和看护人会感到非常不安。

And parents and caregivers get really uncomfortable if teenagers come into those playgrounds and start getting loud, start climbing on the play equipment in some ways that are unorthodox, etcetera.

与此同时，经营街角商店的成年人和其他半公共场所的管理者也不希望青少年闲逛，因为他们认为青少年既不会消费还会吓跑成年顾客。

And meanwhile, adults who run corner stores, adults who run other kinds of semi public places also don't want teens hanging out because they think they're not going to spend money and they're also going to scare off the adults.

除此之外，人们还不断抱怨美国青少年正面临心理健康危机、缺乏锻炼、足不出户、沉迷电子游戏。

And then on top of all of that, people keep saying, you know, teenagers in America are having a mental health crisis and don't exercise enough and don't leave the house and are playing too many video games.

这真的很矛盾——你们到底想让青少年做什么？

And it's just like, really, like, what do you want the teenagers to do?

你们希望他们去哪里？

Where do you want them to go?

因此，是的，我在工作中做了很多努力来倡导青少年并不可怕，同时也描述青少年真正喜欢的那种场所，你知道的，那种他们可能愿意走出去体验的世界。

And so, yeah, I've I've tried a lot in my work to advocate for teenagers not being scary, but also to describe the kind of places that teenagers actually like and, you know, kind of might want to be out there in the world.

你在书中描述的一个地方是由名为WRT Design的设计工作室设计的。

And one of the places you describe in your book, was designed by a design studio called WRT Design.

他们创造了一个违背这种排斥青少年趋势的设施，设计了一个对青少年非常友好的公园。

They made an amenity that goes against this trend of of excluding teens and, you know, made a park or designed a park that was really kinda teen friendly.

实际上，它对所有人开放，但特别之处在于它对青少年有所侧重，这就是费城的FDR公园。

Actually, it's kind of open to all people, but the fact that it focuses a little bit on teens is what's particularly notable about it, and it was this FDR Park in Philadelphia.

那么他们具体设计了什么？

So what what did they make?

是的，这就是安娜·C·维尔纳游乐场，位于FDR公园内。

So, yeah, it's the Anna C.

它由WRT和Studio Ludo设计，后者是专业的游乐场设计公司。

Verna playground in FDR Park, which was designed by WRT and Studio Ludo, who are kind of a playground design expert firm.

他们设计的这个设施被称为'超级秋千'，这是一个令人惊叹的秋千组，呈120×100英尺的椭圆形，悬挂着20个秋千，中间还有休息区。

And the object that they designed, they call the mega swing, which is this amazing swing set that is a 120 by 100 foot ellipse that has 20 swings hanging from it and a seating area in the middle.

它基本上是将普通的秋千放大升级，超出了大多数人的想象。

And basically it takes, you know, your ordinary playground swing and like jacks it up beyond anything that most people can imagine.

这套秋千还配备了五种不同类型的秋千，适合各种能力水平的人使用，其中大部分都可以多人共同使用。

And the swing set also has five different types of swings for basically like any ability level, most of which can be used communally or in groups.

这个创意真正将秋千变成了一个社交空间，既具有身体挑战性，又像解谜游戏一样让人思考如何在任何一款秋千上荡得更高、更有力、更快。

So the idea is really making the swing into a social space that is also physically challenging and kind of like a puzzle to solve as you figure out like how to get higher, stronger, faster on any one of those swings.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们有一种双人秋千，可以两个人一起玩。

They have ones that are kind of like a two person swing that kind of function together.

还有带网兜的那种，我比较常见，可以躺在里面。

They have this ones that the with the netting, I've seen these more commonly that you can kind of lay down in.

既有趣又吸引人，简直太棒了。

It delightful and inviting and kind of amazing.

确实如此，我去那里时看到一群青少年挤在一个适应性秋千上，就是那种为残障人士设计的模压塑料重型秋千。

Yeah, it really is because, I mean, I went there once and there was a group of teenagers who all piled on one of the adaptive swings, which are those molded plastic kind of heavy duty swings, you know, intended for people with disabilities.

但他们像叠罗汉一样挤了四个人在上面，有的站着有的坐着，然后开始快速前后摇晃，到达最高点时再跳下来。

But they piled like four different people on it, like standing up and sitting down and began rocking it like really fast back and forth, back and forth, and then jumping off when it reached the height.

所以某种程度上，把秋千变成一种略显陌生的物件，我觉得确实能激发人们的想象力——哦，原来我不必只用一种方式荡秋千，或许我想和朋友一起玩。

So it's like somehow, like making this swing into a slightly unfamiliar object, I think, also really fires up people's imaginations on like, oh, okay, I don't have to swing in just one way, and maybe I wanna swing with my friends.

你看，这本身就成为了一个完整的故事。

And, you know, it it becomes a whole story in itself.

是啊。

Yeah.

具体来说，秋千能提供哪些其他公园设施无法为青少年提供的独特价值？

What does a swing in particular provide that other sort of apparatus or other sort of amenities inside of a park doesn't provide for for for teens?

通常人们在考虑青少年公园设施时，想到的要么是运动场——尤其是篮球场，要么是滑板公园。

Well, when people are thinking of park provisions for teens, usually they're thinking about like sports courts, especially like basketball courts, or they're thinking about skate parks.

但并非所有青少年都喜欢打球或玩滑板。

But not every teenager, you know, wants to wants to ball or wants to skate.

秋千确实为体能活动开辟了新途径，同时也创造了社交机会，因为它可以只是个让你和朋友坐着闲聊的地方。

And the swings really open up another avenue for physical activity, but also for social activity, because swings can just be something that you can sit on and chat with a friend.

如果你想待在户外、置身公共场所、和朋友闲逛，但又不想参与那些特定的体育活动。

If you wanna be outside, you wanna be in public, you wanna be hanging out, but you don't wanna do either of those specific sports activities.

是啊。

Yeah.

那么，为什么大型屏幕能有效吸引青少年呢？

And, you know, why is a large mega screen like a good way to attract teens?

人们可能不会理所当然地认为他们会被此吸引，但为什么这招管用呢？

Like, you wouldn't necessarily assume they'd be drawn to that, but why does it work?

我认为是因为大孩子和青少年通常不愿使用那些明显为儿童设计的设施，而这个游乐场的设计师非常谨慎。

I think because older kids and teens don't necessarily wanna use something that looks like it's been designed for kids, but the designers of this playground were very careful.

比如，这里没有大量塑料材质。

Like, there isn't a lot of plastic.

也没有很多鲜艳的色彩。

There aren't a lot of bright colors.

你知道，所有设施都采用自然色调的不锈钢材质。

You know, everything is kind of nature toned stainless steel.