红杉资本（第一部分）

没错。

Yep.

国家半导体后来确实收购了仙童。

National would actually go on later to acquire Fairchild.

那么本，你知道最终谁会成为国家半导体的CEO吗？

And, Ben, do you know who would ultimately become the CEO of National Semiconductor?

要知道，这就像硅谷最初是个小地方，所有这些动态最终促成了个人电脑的诞生。

This is, you know, this is like the beginning of a valley being a small place and, and all of these dynamics enabling the personal computer.

吉尔·埃米利奥。

Gil Emilio.

哦，什么？

Oh, what?

是的。

Yes.

苹果公司的名人。

Of Apple fame.

是的。

Yes.

未来的苹果CEO。

Future CEO of Apple.

未来的他的

Future His

苹果公司首位创始CEO。

first foundering CEO of Apple.

没错。

Yeah.

我相信他的第一份CEO工作是接替查理担任CEO。

I believe his first CEO gig was taking over for Charlie as CEO Yeah.

所以这一切都在发生。

Of So all of this is going on.

仙童半导体公司岌岌可危。

Fairchild is on the ropes.

1968年，戈登·摩尔和鲍勃·诺伊斯离开仙童半导体公司。

In 1968, Gordon Moore and Bob Noyce leave Fairchild.

当时唐·瓦伦丁仍在仙童任职，而他们创办了英特尔。

So Don Valentine's still there at Fairchild, and they start Intel.

唐看到了不祥之兆，心想：天啊。

And Don sees the writing on the wall, and he's like, oh, man.

仙童完蛋了。

Fairchild is cooked.

人才流失。

Brain drain.

是啊。

Yeah.

人才流失。

Brain drain.

就像今天的硅谷一样。

I mean, it's just like Silicon Valley today.

关键领导者和真正聪明的人开始陆续离开，类似情况就会发生。

These things start happening like the the key leaders and really smart people start leaving.

你知道大势已去。

You know the writing's on the wall.

他离开了。

He leaves.

他转投国家半导体公司，担任其销售与市场营销负责人。

He moves over to National as head of sales and marketing at National.

现在，这就是机缘巧合完全发挥作用的地方。

Now, this is where serendipity completely strikes.

如果唐没有采取这一行动，我严重怀疑是否会有红杉资本，也可能不会有我们今天所知的现代风险投资行业。

If Don hadn't made this move, I'd seriously doubt that there would be a Sequoia Capital, and there may not be a modern venture capital industry as we know it today.

所以查理显然非常出色。

So Charlie, is obviously brilliant.

而这种外包芯片生产的举措对整个行业来说是革命性的。

And this move of outsourcing, production of chips is revolutionary to the industry.

而且极具先见之明。

And quite prescient.

而且极具先见之明。

And quite prescient.

但有一件事他完全不在行，那就是公开演讲。

But there's one thing that he's absolutely terrible at, and that is public speaking.

而这件事恰恰是唐所不畏惧的。

And that's one thing that Don is not afraid of.

记住，国家半导体是一家上市公司，即使在1968年他们也需要与华尔街进行财报电话会议。

So, remember, National is a public company, and they have to do earnings calls with Wall Street even back in 1968.

查理对此感到恐惧。

Charlie's terrified of this.

他不想做这些。

He doesn't wanna do them.

所以唐一出现，他就说：太好了唐，你来负责销售和营销。

And so as soon as Don shows up, he says, great Don, you're head of sales and marketing.

你负责主持财报电话会议。

You lead the earnings calls.

哇哦。

Woah.

这将会

Which would

在今天是难以想象的，我是说，基本上毫无例外都是CEO和CFO主持。

be unheard of today for I mean, it's your CEO and your CFO basically without exception.

是的。

Yep.

没错。

Yep.

偶尔也会有其他高管参与，当然。

And you have other executives on there from time to time, but Sure.

但不是由他们主导。

But not leading it.

唐开始主导财报电话会议。

Don starts leading the earnings calls.

通过这种方式，他结识了许多国民公司的股东。

Through that, he gets to know a lot of the shareholders of National.

结果发现他们最大的投资者之一是一家总部位于洛杉矶的大型公共投资基金，那里是唐的老地盘，当时叫美国基金。

And it turns out that one of their largest investors is an enormous public investment fund based in Los Angeles back in Don's old stomping grounds called, at the time called the American Funds.

这是资本集团旗下机构的一部分，我觉得很多人并不了解这个集团。

And that was part of this institution called Capital Group, which I think a lot of people don't know about.

但资本集团至今仍是全球最大的共同基金和资金管理池之一。

But Capital Group still today is one of the largest mutual funds and pools of mutual funds of money managers in the world.

我相信他们管理的资本总额远超1万亿美元，分散在众多基金中。

I believe they have well over $1,000,000,000,000 in capital under management across many, many funds.

资本集团已经注意到新兴的硅谷雏形地区正在发生的变化。

Capital Group, they had been seeing what was starting to happen up in the new proto Silicon Valley.

他们见证了英特尔的首次公开募股，那是第一家真正由风险投资支持并上市的公司，以及由此创造的所有财富。

They'd seen the Intel IPO that had happened, had was the first and Intel was the first true venture backed company that had gone public and all the wealth that that had created.

最初是谁支持了英特尔？

And who originally backed Intel?

我记得是阿瑟·洛克。

I believe it was Arthur Rock.

阿瑟·洛克组织了一个财团，用股权支持英特尔。

Arthur Rock organized a syndicate that backed Intel with equity.

嗯，是一种可转换票据。

Well, was a convertible instrument.

我相信那类似于可转换债券。

It was like convertible debt, believe.

改天再讲这个故事吧。

A story for another day.

所以资本集团看到了这个并然后，他们实际上资助了AMD。

So Capital Group, they'd seen this and they actually funded AMD.

AMD也出自仙童半导体公司，我在为这个故事做研究之前并不知道这一点。

And AMD also came out of Fairchild, which I didn't know until doing research for this story.

没错，英特尔和AMD都曾是仙童半导体的校友。

So yeah, both Intel and AMD both were Fairchild alumni.

我是说，这一切都可以追溯到那种'叛徒式援助'的传统——离开垂死的公司，用它们孵化新企业，这种传统至今仍在推动硅谷的发展。

I mean, it really all goes back to the traitorous aid and this legacy of, hey, leaving dying companies and starting new ones out of them that propels Silicon Valley to this day.

这和我们讨论过的其他行业太像了。

That is so much like all these other industries we've talked about.

比如威瑞森和AT&T本质上都源自最初庞大的AT&T公司。

I mean, Verizon and AT and T basically both coming out of the the original massive AT and T company.

感觉芯片公司在这种'现代巨头同根同源'的特征上并非特例。

It feels like chip companies are not unique in this characteristic of, of, you know, both modern giants coming from the same source.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

所以资本集团，他们通过私募基金投资了AMD。

So Capital Group, they've invest they've privately funded AMD.

他们也是国民半导体的大股东。

They're a big investor in National.

作为公开投资工具，他们始终站在投资硅谷及其发展的最前沿。

So they're like, you know, especially as a public investment vehicle, they're at the forefront of being, investing in Silicon Valley and its growth.

他们结识了唐，并通过他了解到所有这些私募投资的情况。

They get to know Don and they learn from Don about all this private investing he's doing.

于是他们带着合作意向找到了他。

And so they approach him with an offer.

不如让他全职做这个，离开国家公司，加入资本集团工作？

How about he do this full time, leave National, and come and start working with them at Capital Group?

他们会给他资金支持，他们现在的资金实力可能比世界上任何人都雄厚，或者说融资渠道广泛，能让他从只能写几千美元个人支票资助这些公司，提升到有足够资金支持它们直至完成所需的公开募股。

They'll give him, you know, certainly capital, and they have more capital than probably just about anybody in in the world at this point in time, or access to capital, and take him from, you know, the couple thousand dollar personal checks that he's able to write to finance these companies up to enough that he can actually support them to get to, get to a public offering where they need to get to.

于是唐立刻抓住了这个机会。

So Don jumps at this chance.

要知道，这才是他真正的热情所在。

You know, this is his true passion.

他热爱这份事业，这是个机会能让他把所有积累的路线规划、市场营销和市场分析技能都用上，让这成为他的全职工作。

He loves this, and this is a chance to, you know, take all of these roadmaps and marketing and market analysis skills that he's developed and just have this be his full time job.

当然，这就是如今众所周知的杰出企业——资本管理服务公司的诞生。

This is, of course, the birth of the illustrious and, name we all know today, Capital Management Services Inc.

是的。

Yes.

其实它当时是资本集团的一部分。

Well, it was part of Capital Group.

我们稍后会详细讲这个架构。

So we'll get into the structure in a second.

我想在这里插入几句唐的精彩原话。

I wanna throw in a few great quotes from from Don here.

他谈到自己为何有勇气认为可以全职从事这份事业。

He talks about why he had the courage to think that he could do this full time.

别忘了，在当时这想法简直疯狂。

And remember, this is crazy.

比如说，现在根本没人全职投资私人科技公司。

Like, nobody is investing full time in private technology companies at this point in time.

你知道，其实就是一群在其他行业赚了钱的人，在马克·霍普金斯酒店吃午餐。

It's it's, you know, a bunch of folks who made money in other industries having lunch at the Mark Hopkins Hotel.

记得吗？

Remember?

而唐打算把这变成他的全职工作。

And Don is gonna make this his full time job.

他说过：'我预感我的筛选系统大多时候会奏效，但我个人没有足够的资源玩德州扑克，下更多筹码。'

So he said, I had a sense that my system of selection would work far more than it wouldn't, but I didn't have the resources personally to play Texas hold them and put up more chips.

拥有大量可自由支配的资金池来持续支持投资理念，这就是我所在环境与我向往环境的关键区别。

The opportunity to have a large discretionary pool of money to continue to support the investment ideas was the difference in the environment I was in and the environment I was interested in going to.

在半导体行业摸爬滚打十二三年后，我在这个圈子里声名显赫。

And after twelve or thirteen years in the semiconductor business, I had a very high profile reputation in this community.

而且，我早就在私下做投资了。

And again, was already doing the investing privately.

所以他说：'那些想创业的人常常会主动找我来帮忙。'

So he says, so people who are interested in starting companies often gravitated to me to help them start their companies.

在他们看来，我有点钱。

From their point of view, I had some money.

我懂市场运作规律，也知道如何帮他们在市场中定位公司。

I knew how markets worked and how to help them position their company in the market.

所以在这两方面我确实有点不公平的优势。

So I had a bit of an unfair advantage in those two respects.

但我最大的不公平优势是，我知道未来会怎样，而很少有人能预见未来。

But the most unfair advantage I had was I knew what the future was and very few people knew what the future was.

当时风投行业里没有其他人来自半导体行业。

Nobody else in the venture capital industry at this point was from the semiconductor business.

其他人既不懂营销，也不了解微处理器。

Nobody else knew marketing, and nobody else knew the microprocessor.

所以这其实挺惊人的。

So it's kind of amazing.

就像我们之前讨论过的，唐拥有这些优势

Like Don has this, as we've talked about

在当下这个时间点，这些确实是很有价值的技能。

It's pretty valuable things to be good at at this point in time.

没错。

Exactly.

完全正确。

Exactly.

所以如果你仔细想想他的话，就会发现这与风投公司的核心职能完美契合。

So like, if you think about what what he's saying, so it maps pretty exactly to the core functions of a venture capital firm.

在项目发掘方面，他拥有一个由顶尖技术人才和科学家组成的人脉网络，这些人都有创办科技公司的经验。

So on sourcing, he has a network of super talented technical people and scientists with the right experience to start technology companies.

他叫唐。

His name is Don.

简直完美。

It's perfect.

他就像是硅谷黑手党的原始教父。

He's like the original Silicon Valley mafia Don.

这是第一点，就像是漏斗的顶端，也就是人才招募。

That's one, that's like top of the funnel, that's sourcing.

但第二点，他拥有独特的经验，了解仙童半导体、国家半导体以及整个半导体行业的所有发展路线图。

But then two, he has this unique experience that he knows all the roadmaps of Fairchild and National and the whole semiconductor industry.

他知道应该进攻哪些市场。

He knows what markets to attack.

因此他具备筛选判断力，知道该投资哪些创始人和创意。

So he has the selection judgment of which founders and ideas to invest in.

而且他还有实际帮助他们的能力，这在当时业内无人能及——确实能帮助他们建立公司，包括招募管理团队，还包括早期的战略决策，因为他亲身经历过这一切。

And then he has the ability to actually help them unlike anybody else in the industry at the time, actually help them build their companies through, you know, certainly recruiting management teams, but also strategy and decisions in the early days because he's lived through it.

他能帮助他们建立公司。

He can help them build their companies.

最后通过资本集团，他实际上获得了近乎无限的资本池，这又是当时业内其他人所不具备的。

And now finally through Capital Group, he has access to essentially an unlimited pool of capital, which again nobody else in the industry had.

当时其他人还得回到东海岸的仙童半导体为公司融资。

People were having to go back to the East Coast at Fairchild to finance their companies.

所以大卫，你说的是无限资本池。

So David, you're saying an unlimited pool of capital.

这具体是什么意思？

How does that really break down?

资本集团的钱，唐到底能投多少给初创企业？

And how much money from the Capital Group could Don really invest in startups?

正是如此。

Exactly.

所以这是1972年。

So this is 1972.

唐离开了。

Don leaves.

他开始与资本集团合作。

He starts working with Capital Group.

资本集团为其客户设立了一个新的500万美元基金，用于投资北加州半导体行业中高风险高回报的初创企业。

And Capital Group sets up a new $5,000,000 fund for their clients who want to invest in this high risk, return startup in the semiconductor industry in in in Northern California.

资本集团将其称为所谓的'红杉基金'。

And Capital Group calls it the quote unquote Sequoia Fund.

而这正是开端，哦，

And this is the beginning Oh,

资本集团想出了红杉这个名字？

Capital Group came up with the Sequoia name?

呃，不确定是资本集团

Well, don't know if Capital

还是唐的主意，但这是在资本集团内部决定的。

Group or Don did, but it within Capital Group.

这个1972年设立的500万美元基金被称为红杉基金。

This $19.72 dollars 5,000,000 fund is called the Sequoia Fund.

于是，唐开始代表资本集团及其客户运作这个基金。

And, so Don starts working on this on behalf of Capital Group and Capital Group's clients.

但是，你看，唐又是个特立独行的人，做事有自己的方式。

But, you know, again, Don's kinda like a maverick and he does things his own way.

他其实并不满足于永远只为资本集团工作。

He really he's not super interested in just working for Capital Group forever.

他非常想自己单干，而资本集团也全力支持他这么做。

He really wants to do this himself And and Capital Group totally supports him in that.

于是他开始代表他们进行投资，同时也并行推进创建自己的基金和公司——这家后来被称为红杉资本的公司，并开始募集外部资金。

So he starts making investments on behalf of them, but he also starts working in parallel on creating his own fund and own firm, that he's gonna call Sequoia Capital and raising an outside fund.

你可能会觉得这很容易，对吧？

And you would think this would be easy, right?

毕竟唐有着辉煌的业绩记录。

I mean, Don has this amazing track record.

他拥有别人无法复制的绝佳策略。

He has a brilliant strategy that nobody else can replicate.

他知道什么会成功。

He knows what's gonna work.

他说

Has He says

根本没有有限合伙人。

that there are no LPs.

好吧，

Well,

他可是带着资本集团的背书——要知道，那可是当时全球最具传奇色彩的资产管理公司之一。

he has the stamp and imprimatur of Capital Group, know, one of the most storied money managers, you know, in the world at that point in time.

唐学到的是，你知道，一代又一代创办新公司的人不断重复领悟的教训。

And Don, he learns a lesson that, you know, generations of people who start new firms have learned again and again.

我们在Wave学到的就是，即便如此，首次筹集基金真的非常非常困难。

We learned at Wave, which was that even with all that, starting raising a first time fund is really freaking hard.

真的，超级困难。

Like, really freaking hard.

是啊。

Yeah.

而唐当时正在为一个尚未存在的资产类别首次筹集基金。

And what Don was doing was raising a first time fund for an asset class that didn't yet exist.

所以对唐来说，并没有一群习惯投资这种风险回报模式的投资者。

So for Don, there weren't a group of investors who were used to putting money in this risk return profile.

这需要去说服他们，嘿，

It it it was going and convincing them, hey.

虽然这方面没有历史数据，但你们不仅该在我身上冒险，还要对整个概念下注。

Like, there's not really historical data on this, but you should take a flyer not only on me, but on this entire concept.

没错。

Yeah.

完全同意。

Totally.

我是说，要记住，这是在耶鲁大学大卫·斯文森——这位首席投资官真正开创这种投资方式之前，他主张大额资金池，特别是免税非营利组织或资金池，应该将大量资产配置到能长期获得超高回报的另类投资中。

I mean, gotta remember, this is pre you know, for for listeners who know about David Swanson at Yale, the chief investment officer at Yale, he really pioneered this this approach that large pools of capital, especially tax exempt nonprofits or pools of capital should should put a lot of their assets in alternative investments where they can get extremely high returns over a long time horizon.

而且由于他们免税，这些回报能以比普通人高得多的速度复利增长。

And because they're tax exempt, they can compound those returns at a much higher rate than than ordinary folks.

这个概念原本不存在。

This concept didn't exist.

所以大多数资金池，比如大学捐赠基金、基金会、家族办公室这类机构，你知道的，所有的资本

So most pools of capital, you know, university endowments, foundations, family offices, and the like, you know, all all of capital

商品是债券。

goods It's bonds.

是国库券。

It's treasury bills.

对。

Yeah.

是固定比例的股票。

It's fixed bit of stock.

没错。

Yeah.

他们正在投资这些，你知道的。

That they're investing in, you know.

这些人他们的投资目标是10%的内部收益率，这虽然比市场平均回报要好，但与唐自认能达到的收益率和风投行业承诺的回报相比根本不算什么。

And and these folks, they're targeting across their investments, a 10% IRR, which, you know, is great and better than, like, the, you know, average market returns, but it's nothing like what Don thinks he can generate and what the venture capital industry promises.

于是他开始推销说：

So he goes out and he makes this pitch about, like, hey.

我认为至少能让10%的内部收益率翻倍。

I think I can at least double 10% IRR.

如果你看我的个人业绩记录，实际远不止这个数。

And if you look at my personal track record, like, it's much more than that.

事实上，红杉资本最初几只基金的年化收益率（IRR）远高于10%，甚至高出许多倍。

And indeed, Sequoia's first few funds would be well, well above 10% IRR, many multiples above that.

他得到的反应就像是，这听起来不像是投资业务。

The reception he gets is like, well, this doesn't sound like the investing business.

你知道，这不是固定收益。

You know, this isn't fixed income.

这不是，你懂吗？

This isn't you know?

然后唐说，没错。

And and Don's like, yeah.

你说得完全正确。

You're exactly right.

这不是投资业务。

This isn't the investment business.

这是企业建设业务。

This is the company building business.

我的工作是创办并帮助建立伟大的公司。

I'm in the business of starting and helping build great companies.

而且他说得太对了。

And and he's so right.

我是说，这才是真正早期风险投资的本质。

I mean, that is what true early stage venture is.

这不是简单地投资、分配资金然后观望结果。

It's not, you know, investing, allocating money, and seeing what happens.

它确实在深入挖掘并帮助从零开始创建一些东西。

It's really digging in and helping start something from scratch.

而这就是至今为止，真正的异常回报所在之处。

And that's where to this day, you know, the deep, the the true outlier returns are.

但有限合伙人群体就是不明白这一点。

But the LP community is just like, they don't get it.

唐讲过一个精彩的故事。

Don tells this great story.

他去纽约所罗门兄弟公司拜访，这家投行的故事，我记得所罗门兄弟正是迈克尔·刘易斯处女作《说谎者的扑克牌》的主题。

He goes to see Solomon Brothers in New York, the story of the investment bank, which, I believe it was Solomon Brothers that was the subject of, Liars Poker, Michael Lewis' first book.

他与那里的人坐下来交谈。

And he sits down with the folks there.

他向他们做了推介，对方却说：我看得出你没上过哈佛商学院。

He gives them the pitch and they say, I see that you didn't go to Harvard Business School.

他回答：没错。

And he says, right.

我是没上过哈佛商学院。

I didn't go to Harvard Business School.

我上的是仙童半导体商学院。

I went to Fairchild Semiconductor Business School.

而他们一点都没笑。

And they didn't laugh at all.

他们说：我们不会投资任何没上过哈佛商学院的人。

They're like, we're not going to invest with anybody who didn't go to Harvard Business School.

结果他与Capital Group合作，花了近三年时间才筹集到第一支独立的红杉基金。

So it ends up taking him almost three years while working with Capital Group to raise the first independent Sequoia Fund.

但最终在1975年

But finally in 1975

任何类似个位数的情况。

anything that that was like single digit.

比如，那个基金规模有多大？

Like, how big was that fund?

我找不到确切数据。

I couldn't get the exact data.

嗯，我看到几个矛盾的信息源，但我相信大概在300万到500万之间。

Well, I saw a couple conflicting sources, but I believe it was somewhere between 3 to 5,000,000.

所以规模非常非常小。

So quite, quite small.

这还是经过三年努力的结果。

And that's with three years of work on it.

想想这种坚韧。

Just think about the tenacity.

我是说，大多数人会

I mean, most people would

放弃。

give up.

是啊。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Totally.

想想今天的红杉资本，再回溯到七十年代初，一个人——唐·瓦伦丁，仅凭对未来愿景的坚定信念，花了三年时间筹集了300到500万美元开始投资。

Think of Sequoia Capital today and then think back to the early seventies and one man, know, Don Valentine scraping together for three years just because he believes so deeply in this vision of the future to put 3 to 5,000,000 together and start investing.

这确实能让你深刻理解：看看他们今天的企业精神，其根源正源于此。

It really just tells you a ton about You look at their ethos today and this is where it comes from.

起步后，他制定了所谓的几条投资基本原则。

Once he gets started, he sets what he calls a few ground rules for investing.

这就是最初的红杉资本投资清单。

So these are this is the original Sequoia Capital investing checklist.

第一，潜在投资必须面向非常庞大的市场。

One, must be in a very big market, the the potential investment.

第二，必须位于北加州（这条已改变）。

Two, must be in Northern California, that's changed.

第三，必须涉及先进技术。

Three, must be in advanced technology.

第四，必须具备高毛利率能力（这条也已改变）。

Four, must have high gross margin ability, that has also changed.

第五，必须具有让红杉实现1亿美元投资回报的潜力。

And five, must have the potential for Sequoia to make a $100,000,000 on the investment.

这简直不可思议。

I mean, that's incredible.

一个300到500万美元的基金，他却始终瞄准着登月般的宏伟目标。

Like, a 3 to $5,000,000 fund, and he's still like, he's only aiming for shooting for the moon.

仅红杉资本就能从这些投资中获利1亿美元。

Sequoia alone could make a $100,000,000 on these investments.

按现今标准来看，这基本上意味着必须投中独角兽企业，因为通常来说，早期（比如A轮）投资者在退出时股权会被稀释到10%左右——这是对此类投资最直观的思考方式。

Which is basically by today's standards saying it has to be a unicorn because in general, an early stage, call it a series a, investor is gonna get diluted to around 10% ownership by the time there's an exit, sort of the finger in the air way you would think about this stuff.

红杉确实有过追加投资的案例。

Sequoia's had some examples where they've bought up more.

想想Dropbox。

Think Dropbox.

我们即将讨论的案例中，条款就大不相同——你不仅能获得公司15%到20%的股权。

And there's also, examples that we're about to go into where, the the terms were much different and you didn't just buy 15 to 20% of a company.

在早期阶段就能收购更多股份。

You bought much more in these early days.

这些公司大多没有进行多轮融资。

And these companies, most of them weren't raising multiple rounds.

因此红杉提供的资金是他们唯一的私募融资，之后企业实现盈利并上市。

So Sequoia was financing, that was the only private capital that they were raising, and then they were going achieving profitability and going public.

但如今人们谈论风投时，总会说要按10倍回报来评估。

But still, like, you you think about today people talk about, you know, oh, a VC investment, you gotta underwrite to 10 x returns.

而唐·瓦伦丁从第一天起就按20倍以上回报来评估项目。

You know, even from day one, Don's underwriting to 20 x plus returns.

直到今天，红杉最著名的投资原则之一就是：只进军真正具备巨大潜力的市场。

And if he doesn't see that and and still to this day, I mean, I think one of the things Sequoia is really known for is they will only attack markets that truly have the potential to be large.

十亿美元规模的市场对他们来说根本不够看。

A billion dollar market is not enough for them.

你需要一个数十亿美元的市场，理想情况下是百亿规模。

You need a multi billion dollar, you know, ideally 10 market.

因为他们的目标是每笔投资都能获得20倍以上的回报。

Because again, like, they're aiming for each of their investments to make 20 x plus.

最后这一点我特别喜欢。

And then the final I love this.

唐的投资标准清单最后一项是：必须对我们积极参与持正面响应态度，这点很棒。

The final item on the checklist for for Don's criteria for investing is must be positively responsive to our active participation, which is great, though.

而且正如我们在EA那期节目里和特里普聊到的，唐确实建立了相当高的声誉。

And and, obviously Don develops quite a reputation as we talked about with Trip on the EA episode.

非常积极主动并且

Being very active and being

如此活跃。

so active.

不仅是公司治理，还包括影响企业的管理决策。

Not only governance, but influencing management of the companies.

这一点至关重要。

This is really critical.

唐之所以能在这些公司如此活跃，是因为他曾帮助建立过定义行业标准的标杆企业，为未来发展指明了方向。

Don, he has the credibility to be very active in these companies because he has helped build the previous generation of, you know, of defining companies that are setting the roadmap for everything that's going forward.

他另外还形成了一套评估创业者的方法论。

The other thing that he develops is a methodology for kind of assessing entrepreneurs.

大卫，在深入讨论创业者评估之前，这些基本原则让我印象深刻的是——正如我们多次提到的——唐遵循自己的规则，他认为早期投资本质上是门主观性很强的生意。

David, before diving into the entrepreneur side of things, the thing that struck me on these ground rules, and as we've danced around a couple times here, Don plays by his own rules, and he sort of has this ethos of this this early stage investment business is a subjective business.

这不是一个高度依赖数据分析的业务。

It's not a highly analytical data driven business.

更像是，这是一门靠感觉的生意。

Like, it's a it's a feeling business.

然而在这些基本原则中，看到那些硬性的财务指标凸显出来很有意思。

And yet in these ground rules, it's it's interesting to see what hard and fast financial things jump out.

所以即便在这个高度主观和直觉的领域，'必须具备高毛利率能力'也被列为少数珍贵准则之一。

So even in this high area of subjectivity and gut feel, must have high gross margin ability is in there as one of these precious few rules.

作为早期投资者，这点真的让我深有共鸣，让我思考这在规模化公司和获得超额回报能力中的重要性。

You know, as an early stage investor, that's that's like really ringing home to me and and and thinking about how important that is in the ability to to sort of, of course, scale a company, but but generate outsized returns.

你在这里看到的唯一数字就是那个1亿。

The only number that you see in here is that that 100,000,000.

另一个勉强算数字的指标就是'高毛利率能力'。

Then the only other thing that sort of close to resembles a number is high gross margin ability.

思考筛选标准很有意思。

It's interesting to think about what makes the cut.

是啊。

Yeah.

嗯，这也引出了他评估创业者的方法论。

Well, this this also leads into the his his methodology for assessing entrepreneurs.

但是唐，就像风险投资行业里许多开创性事物一样，虽然我觉得他不会用这些词，但他认识到这既是艺术也是科学的行业。

But, Don, you know, as as so many other things in pioneering the venture capital industry, like, I think he I don't think he would put it in these words, but he recognized that this is a business that is both art and science.

这就是早期风险投资行业如此令人惊叹、有趣且回报丰厚的原因。

And that is what is so incredibly awesome and fun and rewarding about working in this industry in in early stage venture capital.

但话说回来，如果你回想那些先行者，他们做的全是艺术。

But again, you know, if you think back to the folks that were doing this before, it was all art.

明白吗？

You know?

而当你想到那些创办类似Trader S8公司的企业家时，那全是科学。

And if you think to a lot of the entrepreneurs who were starting companies like the Trader S8, it was all science.

他们根本没考虑艺术层面，比如如何把这变成个人和生态系统的巨大财富创造工具？

Like, they weren't thinking about the art of like, oh, how do we make this into like a huge wealth generating vehicle for ourselves and for the ecosystem?

就像，不，我们只想搞科研，懂吗？

It was like, no, we just wanna go do science, you know?

然后想办法找到做科研的途径。

And let's like find some way to do science.

我认为唐是真正第一个弥合这一鸿沟的人。

And Don is really the first person I think to bridge this gap.

他回归了评估公司和企业家的方法论，我猜他在企业工作时就在这么做。

The methodology for assessing companies and entrepreneurs, he kind of goes back to, and I assume this he was doing this while he was working at companies too.

别忘了他的耶稣会教育背景和天主教学校成长经历，他采用的是苏格拉底问答法。

Remember he has this Jesuit education and Catholic school upbringing background, and he goes to the Socratic method.

直到今天，我认为红杉资本与企业家的大量互动仍沿用这种方式。

Still to this day, I think this is a lot of how Sequoia runs their interactions with entrepreneurs.

他们提问，然后专注倾听答案。

They ask questions and then they just listen to the answers.

这是成为优秀风投的关键所在。

This is such a key to being a great VC.

我经常纠结的一点是，人们总是忍不住想把自己代入正在发生的事情中。

One thing that I struggle with a ton is like you can the temptation is always to insert yourself into what's going on.

唐认识到，你需要做的是倾听创业者们在说什么。

Don recognizes that like what you need to do is listen to what the entrepreneurs are saying.

你可以同意或不同意，理解或不理解，但你需要了解他们如何看待事物，而不是你自己的想法。

You may agree or disagree or like understand or not understand, but like you need to understand how they think about things, not how you think about things.

是的。

Yeah.

重点不在于他们的答案，而在于他们为什么认为那个答案是正确的，以及他们是如何得出这个结论的思维过程。

It's not about their answers, but why they're thinking that answer is the right answer and how they arrive there and what the thought process is.

没错。

Yeah.

所以，唐经常谈到——如果你看过他在斯坦福的YouTube视频——如何构建问题是他认为商业中最重要的事。

So, know, Don talks a lot about, and if you watch the the YouTube video of of of him at Stanford, how formulating a question he believes is the most important thing in his business.

因此他制定了一条规则：问题必须控制在20个单词以内。

And so he has a rule that questions can only be 20 words or less.

而且当他在斯坦福向观众征集问题时，他会说'不超过20个单词，否则我会杀了你'。

And, yeah, when he when he solicits questions from the audience at Stanford, he says 20 words or less or I'll kill you.

这很棒。

It's great.

但这就是他的处事方式，因为他真正感兴趣的是创业者们的叙事技巧——他说这关乎创意构建、市场规模、完成产品所需的技术风险程度、谁会关心，以及用最简单的方式解释清楚。

But that's how he approaches things because he's really interested in the storytelling technique of of the entrepreneurs because he says it's about the building of the idea, the size of the market, the degree of technical risk to get this product finished, who's going to care, and explaining that in a very simple way.

我们可以判断，能这样用简单方式解释清楚的人，正是我们想要合作的对象。

We can tell that that person who can do that, explain it in a very simple way, is somebody we wanna be in business with.

那些复杂且漫无边际的人，他们不是...你知道吗，唐娜意识到，初创企业唯一的价值和竞争优势就是专注、速度和隐秘性。

People who are instead complex, rambling all over the place, they're not you know, Donna's realized that the value, the only competitive advantage that startups have is focus and speed and stealth.

所以如果你四处分散精力，就无法执行这些事情。

And so if you're all over the place, you're not gonna be able to execute on those things.

这一点至今仍然适用。

And that's still true today.

现在是个好时机来感谢我们节目的好朋友ServiceNow。

Now is a great time to thank good friend of the show, ServiceNow.

我们曾向听众介绍过ServiceNow惊人的起源故事，以及他们如何成为过去十年表现最佳的公司之一。

We have talked to listeners about ServiceNow's amazing origin story and how they've been one of the best performing companies the last decade.

但我们收到一些听众关于ServiceNow实际业务的疑问。

But we've gotten some questions from listeners about what ServiceNow actually does.

所以今天，我们将回答这个问题。

So today, we are gonna answer that question.

首先，最近媒体经常用一句话形容ServiceNow，称其为企业的'AI操作系统'。

Well, to start, a phrase that has been used often here recently in the press is that ServiceNow is the, quote, unquote, AI operating system for the enterprise.

但具体来说，ServiceNow二十二年前创立时只专注于自动化。

But to make that more concrete, ServiceNow started twenty two years ago focused simply on automation.

他们将实体文书工作转化为软件流程，最初是为企业内部的IT部门服务。

They turned physical paperwork into software workflows, initially for the IT department within enterprises.

仅此而已。

That was it.

随着时间的推移，他们在这个平台上不断发展，承担更强大和复杂的任务。

And over time, they built on this platform going to more powerful and complex tasks.

他们从仅服务于IT部门扩展到人力资源、财务、客户服务、现场运营等其他部门。

They were expanding from serving just IT to other departments like HR, finance, customer service, field operations, and more.

在过去二十年的发展过程中，ServiceNow已经完成了连接企业各个角落并实现自动化所需的所有繁琐基础工作。

And in the process over the last two decades, ServiceNow has laid all the tedious groundwork necessary to connect every corner of the enterprise and enable automation to happen.

所以当人工智能出现时，从定义上来说，AI本质上就是一种高度复杂的任务自动化。

So when AI arrived, well, AI kinda just by definition is massively sophisticated task automation.

而谁已经构建了支持这种自动化的平台和企业连接架构？

And who had already built the platform and the connective tissue with enterprises to enable that automation?

ServiceNow。

ServiceNow.

那么回到问题：ServiceNow如今是做什么的？

So to answer the question, what does ServiceNow do today?

他们声称'连接并赋能每个部门'绝非虚言。

We mean it when they say they connect and power every department.

IT和人力资源部门用它来管理全公司的人员、设备和软件许可证。

IT and HR use it to manage people, devices, software licenses across the company.

客户服务部门使用ServiceNow处理诸如检测支付失败，并将其路由到内部正确的团队或流程来解决。

Customer service uses ServiceNow for things like detecting payment failures and routing to the right team or process internally to solve it.

供应链组织则用它进行产能规划，整合其他部门的数据和计划，确保所有人步调一致。

Or the supply chain org uses it for capacity planning, integrating with data and plans from other departments to ensure that everybody's on the same page.

不再需要在不同应用程序之间切换，反复输入相同数据。

No more swivel chairing between apps to enter the same data multiple times in different places.

就在最近，ServiceNow推出了AI代理，任何岗位的员工都可以创建AI代理来处理繁琐事务，让人力专注于更具战略性的工作。

And just recently, ServiceNow launched AI agents so that anyone working in any job can spin up an AI agent to handle the tedious stuff, freeing up humans for bigger picture work.

ServiceNow去年入选了《财富》杂志全球最受赞赏公司榜单和《快公司》最佳创新者工作场所，正是源于这一愿景。

ServiceNow was named to Fortune's world's most admired companies list last year and Fast Company's best workplace for innovators last year, and it's because of this vision.

如果你想在企业各个角落充分利用ServiceNow的规模与速度，请访问servicenow.com/acquired，就说是本和大卫推荐你的。

If you wanna take advantage of the scale and speed of ServiceNow in every corner of your business, go to servicenow.com/acquired and just tell them that Ben and David sent you.

谢谢，ServiceNow。

Thanks, ServiceNow.

那么大卫，你如何将这一切与唐那种'投资市场而非创始人'的公开原则相协调？

So, David, how do you square all of this with Don's sort of, off stated principle that he invests in markets, not founders?

是的。

Yes.

而这种对创始人的评估又如何融入那个理念？

And how how does this assessment of founders fit into that notion?

这个嘛，你知道

Well, you know

我是以科技史学家的身份问你，不是

I'm asking you as a technology historian, not Yes.

显然你无法揣测唐的真实想法

Obviously, you're not in Don's head.

确实如此。

Exactly.

我认为它们当然是相互关联的，就像所有早期阶段投资那样。

Well, I think, of course, they're interrelated and, like, all investing, it is it is early stage investing.

既要看市场也要看团队。

It is about both the market and the team.

但我认为关键点在于市场很重要，但你需要一个团队。

But I think that's this is the key is like the market is the important thing, but you need a team.

这又回到了唐的最后一个观点：必须对我们的积极参与持开放态度。

This gets back to, Don's last point on his checklist of must be receptive to our active participation.

你需要一个专注且能快速将正确解决方案推向市场的团队。

You need a team that's gonna be focused and able to quickly get the right solution into the market.

所以他有一句非常精彩的话，我认为完美概括了这一点。

And so he has this this really great quote that I think encapsulates this.

他说：‘我们的观点始终是，最好给我们一个重大技术难题，给我们一个广阔市场，当技术难题解决时，我们就能卖出大量产品。’

He says, so our view has always been preferably give us a big technical problem, give us a big market when that technical problem is solved so we can sell lots and lots and lots of stuff.

我喜欢和优秀的人一起做这件事吗？

Do I like to do that with terrific people?

当然。

Sure.

我们愿意投资那些没有优秀人才的公司吗？

Are we willing to invest in companies that don't have them?

当然。

Sure.

你可以加强管理团队。

You can augment management.

你可以为他们配备更多高素质人才。

You can help them with more people that are highly qualified.

我们投资的是市场规模和动态。

We invest in the size and the dynamics of the market.

我才不在乎是不是成吉思汗在经营公司。

I don't care if Gingus Khan is running the company.

我们会给成吉思汗一些帮助。

We'll give Gingus Khan some help.

永远给我一个巨大的市场。

Give me a giant market always.

但我觉得，史蒂夫·乔布斯马上会被提到，他认为成吉思汗的关键在于——成吉思汗之所以是成吉思汗，是因为他专注于胜利、速度和征服，这正是他们所寻求的特质。

But I think, you know, Steve Jobs is gonna come up in a minute here, but I think, you know, his point about Genghis Khan is that Genghis Khan may be Genghis Khan, but he was focused on, you know, winning and speed and conquering, and that's what they're looking for.

把这个比喻说透的话，成吉思汗也有弱点，因此必须有一个团队来弥补和支持。

And that to just beat this metaphor to death, and that Genghis Khan also has weaknesses and therefore must have a team that surrounds and compliments.

我记得唐说过一句话（记不太确切），关于创业者听这些问题时最关键的，其实是他们对自己优缺点的清醒认知。

And I think Don has some quote, I don't have it exactly, but about how the most critical thing for an entrepreneur when sort of listening to these questions, what are you listening for, is really this self awareness of what they're good at and what they're not.

正好对应第六点：他们是否愿意接受别人帮助弥补这些弱点。

And exactly point number six, how receptive they're going to be to to being helped with those weaknesses.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，再回想一下那个时代背景。

I mean, again, think back to this moment in time.

当时创办这些公司的都是工程师。

The people that were starting these companies, they were engineers.

绝大多数是科学家出身。

They were scientists by and large.

而唐的超能力在于，他能用像他自己这样擅长销售、营销和市场拓展的人才，来增强这些公司和团队。

And Don's superpower was he was able to augment these companies and these teams with folks like himself who were able to do sales and marketing and go to market.

然后红杉可以帮助论证增强财务和会计等相关领域，以及所有这些的外包。

And then Sequoia could help argument augment with finance and accounting and everything around that and, and the outsourcing of all that.

他不能容忍那些自以为无所不知的人。

What he couldn't have was folks who thought they knew everything.

那么他们在1975年完成首支红杉资本基金的募集后，最终投资了哪些项目呢？

So what actually do they end up investing in once they closed this the first Sequoia Capital Fund in 1975?

事实证明，唐的第一笔投资确实瞄准了一个由半导体技术催生的巨大市场，但这个选择有些冷门，与他职业生涯初期推销给国防承包商的对象截然不同——那就是雅达利公司。

So it turns out Don makes his first investment in indeed a quite giant market enabled by semiconductors, but, one a little off the beaten path and certainly different than, the, defense contractors that he started his career selling to, and that was Atari.

我们将在本季《Acquired》节目中更详细地讨论雅达利的故事。

And we're gonna talk much more about Atari later in the season here on Acquired.

但这是红杉资本作为独立机构的第一笔投资。

But it was the very first independent Sequoia Capital investment.

1975年，唐向该公司投资了60万美元。

Don invests $600,000 in the company in 1975.

就在次年，该公司被华纳通讯以2800万美元收购，红杉获得了快速的外汇回报，虽然内部收益率很可观，但距离唐期望的20倍回报仍有差距。

And the very next year, the company ends up getting acquired by Warner Communications for $28,000,000, and Sequoia makes a quick forex return, you know, which is great, great IRR, but does fall short of the 20 x that Don is hoping to underwrite too.

我查到的资料有出入吗？

Did I find a different source on that?

我记得初始投资额是200万美元。

I thought it was a $2,000,000 initial investment.

还是说他后续又追加了200万投资？

Or was it did he do a follow on for 2,000,000?

我相信初始投资额是60万美元。

I believe the initial investment was 600 k.

当时雅达利已经存在相当长一段时间了，我想大概三年

Now Atari had also already been around for quite a while when I think three

他们在融资前已经熬过了三年

three years they had gone without before raising.

是的

Yep.

而且唐认识诺兰·布什内尔——那位CEO——已经很多年了

And Don had known Nolan Nolan Bushnell, the CEO, for for many years.

所以我不得不认为这是他一直在暗中准备的项目，直到基金募集完成

So I have to assume this was one that he had kinda waiting in the wings until he closed the fund.

每个优秀的风险投资家在募集第一支基金时都应该想好：谁会是你的第一笔投资？

Which every good venture capitalist should have when out raising their first fund is who's gonna be your first investment?

天啊

Oh, man.

我们也这么做过

We did that too.

这太神奇了

We have it's amazing.

令人惊叹的是这个行业至今仍保持着这么多相似之处

It's amazing how much the industry is still the same.

于是在1977年，红杉进行了可能是他们史上最重要也最具影响力的投资，不幸的是这也成为他们最深刻的教训

So then in 1977, Sequoia makes what could have been perhaps their biggest and most important investment ever, and unfortunately becomes perhaps their biggest and most important lesson.

在揭晓答案前再补充一点——这个项目贡献了今天我所提到的3.3万亿公开市场价值中约1万亿的份额，虽然大家可能早就知道了

Just to pile one more thing on before the big reveal, which everyone probably already knows, is responsible for about a trillion of that 3,300,000,000,000.0 number that I quoted of public market value today.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

嗯，还好他们还有另外2.3万亿可以依靠。

Well, it's a good thing they still have another 2,300,000,000,000.0 that they're part of.

所以在1977年，就像特里普在我们EA节目中提到的那样，红杉资本投资了另一家由前雅达利早期员工创立的小公司，那就是苹果电脑。

So in 1977, as Trip alluded to on our EA episode, Sequoia invested in another little company that was founded by an early former Atari employee, and that was Apple Computer.

史蒂夫·乔布斯曾为诺兰·布什内尔在雅达利工作，唐那时就对他有所了解。

So Steve Jobs had worked for Nolan Bushnell at Atari, and Don had had gotten to know him a little bit then.

乔布斯和沃兹创办了公司后，他们聘请迈克·斯科特担任公司首任总裁。

And they'd so Jobs and Woz had started the company, and they brought on Mike Scott as the first president of the company.

是的。

Yeah.

应该说道格在那家公司对乔布斯有所了解，但当时并不觉得他是个值得风投支持的人。

Should say Doug got to know Jobs a little bit at that company, but did not have the impression that this was a venture backable guy at this point in time.

我记得他对史蒂夫·乔布斯的评价是，他看起来像胡志明。

I believe his quote on Steve Jobs was that he looked like Ho Chi Minh.

对。

Yes.

于是迈克——两位史蒂夫聘请的首任总裁——结果发现迈克以前在仙童和国民半导体公司时为唐工作过。

And so Mike, two Steves had brought on as the first president, and it turns out Mike used to work for Don back at Fairchild and National.

唐听说了这家公司后与他们见面，他还认识苹果历史上的关键人物迈克·马库拉——马库拉在半导体时代也曾为唐工作。

And so Don gets wind of the company, he meets with them and Don also knew, a very important guy in Apple's history, Mike Markkula also used to work for Don back in the semiconductor days.

而唐（引号）派他去公司的意图是让马尔库拉接替迈克·斯科特担任总裁并运营公司。

And Don, quote unquote, sends him to the company with the intention that Markkula is gonna replace Mike Scott as the president and run the company.

不过最终，正如特里普所说，马拉卡做出了一个明智的决定，表示自己其实不想日常管理公司。

Ultimately though, you know, as Trip talked about, Markala makes a brilliant decision and says, you know, I don't actually wanna run this thing day to day.

我将担任董事长，真正帮助这些家伙。

I'm gonna be the chairman and really help these guys.

但无论如何，这堪称唐在公司建设和管理团队招募方面的完美范例。

But regardless, what's know, this is a, you know, kind of perfect example of Don's company building at work and management team recruiting.

借此机会，苹果完成了首轮超50万美元的风险融资。

On the back of this, Apple raises their first venture capital round of just over half $1,000,000.

有趣的是，大部分资金并非来自红杉资本，而是来自Venrock（投资略超25万美元），唐和红杉出资15万美元，亚瑟·洛克补足差额。

Interestingly, the lion's share of the capital comes not from Sequoia, but from Venrock, which does a little over $250,000 Don and Sequoia do a $150,000 and Arthur Rock does the balance.

于是苹果开始腾飞——正如我们多次记录并将继续记录的那样——他们真正发明了个人电脑，引领了那波技术浪潮。

So Apple is off to the races and they really, you know, as we've chronicled many times and will continue to chronicle in the future, really invent the personal computer and usher, that wave of technology in.

然而两年后，这

Two years later though, and this

（大卫叹息）这就是...唉，简直

is this is the David's sigh there comes Oh, this is just

太痛苦了，实在太痛苦了，显然给红杉留下了深刻烙印。

so painful, so painful and and clearly has left its mark on on Sequoia.

两年后，我虽未能查清全部细节，但据我所知，

Two years later, I couldn't find all of the circumstances around this, but to the best of my understanding.

第一支红杉基金的投资人并非全是免税非营利机构。

So the first Sequoia Fund did not have only tax exempt nonprofit LPs in it.

我记得它还包括个人，可能还有企业，你知道的，不是所罗门兄弟，而是其他类似的公司，当然还有资本集团。

It also had, I believe, you know, individuals and and maybe corporations and, you know, not Solomon Brothers, but other folks like and certainly Capital Group.

因此，这些人需要缴纳税款。

As a result of that, those folks needed to pay taxes.

显然，其中一些有限合伙人鼓励唐将基金的部分收益进行分配，以便他们能够为这些收益缴纳税款。

And apparently, some of these LPs were encouraging Don to make a distribution of some of the gains in the fund so that they could pay their taxes on the gains.

所以苹果公司已经发展得相当壮大。

And so Apple had grown quite a lot.

现在是1979年。

It's now 1979.

在IPO之前，唐出售了红杉的股份，他们最初投资了15万美元，现在以600万美元的价格出售，以便向有限合伙人进行这笔税务分配。

And Don, before the IPO, sells Sequoia's stake, which they had invested a $150,000 for $6,000,000, to make this tax distribution to LPs.

这是一个巨大的回报。

Now that's a enormous return.

这是一个非凡的回报。

It's a phenomenal return.

是啊。

Yeah.

回报确实非凡，但天啊，600万美元相比苹果公司即将达到的规模，以及最终长期来看的成就，简直不值一提。

Phenomenal return, but oh my goodness, $6,000,000 compared to what Apple, you know, would shortly become and then ultimately in the long term, of course, become.

正是这个教训，促使红杉在后续基金中只接受非营利免税机构的资金，这虽然远未成为行业常态，但却成为一个目标。流入风险投资的大部分资金最终来自大学捐赠基金、基金会等极其长期且耐心的机构，它们不会强迫风投做出这种糟糕的决策。

And it's this lesson, you know, that drives Sequoia in subsequent funds to take to take their capital only from nonprofit tax exempt sources, which becomes, you know, really not, certainly the norm across the industry, but a goal and and the lion's share of money that moves into venture capital is ends up being university endowments, foundations, folks that are super long term impatient and aren't going to force VCs to make, these terrible decisions like this.

是的。

Yeah.

大卫，你可以验证一下我的说法，但据我理解，红杉资本与一般风投公司不同，它会在企业上市后更长期持有股票，并且往往伴随企业走过漫长岁月。

And another, you can sort of check me on this, David, but, my understanding is Sequoia, more so than your average venture firm, holds the stock in companies longer after they go public, and often sticks with the companies for a very long time.

我想这大概也是受这一理念的启发。

I think probably also inspired by this lesson.

这一点以及其他我们即将讨论的内容。

This and others that we're gonna talk about here in short order.

稍后我们会详谈红杉的投资策略，但他们学到的重要一课是：当形势向好时，要坚持长期主义。

We're gonna talk about Sequoia's playbook in a little bit, but one of the key lessons that they learn is when things are going well, go long.

那些正在构建庞大市场的企业，其价值创造需要非常、非常、非常长的时间。

Value creation in these companies that are building and creating enormous markets takes a long, long, long time.

看看爱彼迎，看看谷歌，再看看苹果就知道了。

I mean, just look at Airbnb, look at Google, look Apple.

在这些公司成立十年甚至更久之后，你依然能获得巨大的价值增长，无论它们是私有还是上市状态。

You can still be getting enormous, enormous value creation a decade plus after these companies are founded, regardless of whether they're private or public.

没错。

Yep.

想想真是奇妙，他们最初几笔投资中的前两笔就是苹果和雅达利。

So it's fascinating to think about, you know, the first couple of investments or first two out of a handful of investments being Apple and Atari.

这两笔投资总共带来了约1000万美元的利润，最高不超过1000万。

In total returned a profit of about $10,000,000 or a max of $10,000,000.

想到这就是红杉对这两家公司的全部回报，实在令人难以置信。

It is wild to think that that is the sum total of of Sequoia's return on those two companies.

确实。

I know.

我知道。

I know.

但在当时，我是说，即使放到今天来看，如果我们能在启动Wave的两三年内实现两倍的现金分配，我会觉得非常棒，你懂吗？

But at the time, I mean, like, even, you know, pulling it into context today, like, if we within, you know, two to three years of starting Wave, if we could be sitting on two x cash distributed, like, I would feel great about that, you know?

但这里的教训是，那并不是我们所在的行业或我们正在玩的游戏。

But the lesson here is, like, that's not the game we're the business we're in or the game we're playing.

我们玩的游戏是，十倍以上的现金分配。

The game we're playing is, like, 10 x plus cash distributed.

要做到这一点，你真的需要有长期投入的准备，尤其是在早期投资时。

And to do that, you really need to be in it for the long haul, especially when you're investing early.

是啊。

Yeah.

还有一点要知道的是，大卫，正如你所预示的，你会有点微笑，我们这季后面会深入讨论这个。

The other thing to know here and and, David, as you, as you foreshadow, and you'll be smiling a little bit, we will get into this much more later this season.

但说到雅达利，我们熟知的八十年代雅达利繁荣期是在它被卖给华纳之后。

But with Atari, the Atari boom that we all sort of know of in the eighties was after it had sold to Warner.

所以红杉甚至没有机会参与那次上涨，除非他们阻止那次出售。

And so, you know, Sequoia didn't even have an option in participating in that upside unless they were gonna block the sale.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

完全同意。

Totally.

这也引出了红杉资本策略的另一部分：当公司发展顺利时，要极力说服它们保持独立、不要出售。

And and that also leads to another part of the Sequoia playbook, which is like when things are going well, really try and convince these companies to stay independent and not sell.

我是说，看看Instagram对吧？

I mean, look at Instagram, right?

Instagram卖给Facebook是创始人和投资者犯下的极其严重的错误，尽管当时确实让他们获得了丰厚回报。

Selling Instagram to Facebook was a terrible, terrible mistake by the founders and the investors, even though, you know, it netted them great returns at the moment.

有趣的是，红杉资本恰好在交易发生前进行了投资。

And what's interesting, Sequoia ended up investing right before that deal happened.

这是个有争议的话题，不过我们可以

That is a debatable topic, but we can

你觉得这有争议？

You think that's debatable?

我认为如果Instagram再独立发展一段时间，Facebook将不得不花费数百亿美元来收购它——纯粹因为Instagram拥有庞大用户基数，是对Facebook构成威胁的社交网络。

I think if it had gone a lot longer, then Facebook would have had to pay a lot more, like in the dozens of billions of dollars to acquire, purely because there is a very, very high user count, social network that is a threat to them.

但你认为Instagram能发展到今天这样，通过广告商获得数十亿美元收入的规模吗？

However, do I think that Instagram would develop the business that they have today that has billions of dollars of revenue flowing through them by advertisers?

也许吧，但这并非板上钉钉的事。

Maybe, but that's not a sure thing.

我是说，就这样吧。

I mean, that's all Yeah.

也许，也许吧。

Maybe, maybe.

因为Facebook当时已经把所有现有广告商资源都导流给了Instagram。

Because of what Facebook had had done funneling all their existing advertisers there.

我认为

I think

确实如此。

that's true.

而且毫无疑问，他们确实加速了它的发展，使其更快地成长。

And certainly, they helped accelerate it, grow it, more quickly.

但至少，Instagram本应等待更长时间，然后像WhatsApp那样进行收购，这是最低最低的要求。

But at a minimum, Instagram should have waited, you know, longer and then had a WhatsApp like acquisition, at a bare bare minimum.

是的。

Yes.

要知道，这真的很难判断，现在事后诸葛亮很容易，但换位思考凯文和迈克面对十亿美元报价时的处境却很难。

You know, again, it's so hard to know, it's easy to armchair quarterback this now and hard to be sitting in the seat of, you know, Kevin and Mike when they have a billion dollar offer in front of them.

没错。

Yep.

但这就是价值所在。

But this is the value.

我是说，红杉资本几十年来从这么多案例中吸取了教训，并且一次又一次地见证这种情况。

I mean, Sequoia has learned these lessons over so many decades and seeing it time and time again.

所以他们从苹果公司学到的另一个经验，就是唐和红杉所称的'航空母舰策略'，他们将这种策略应用于大市场。

So the other lesson that they take from Apple is what Don and Sequoia call an aircraft carrier approach that they start taking to these big markets.

他们意识到，唐意识到苹果已经开创了个人电脑市场。

They realize, Don realizes that Apple has created this PC market.

而且不会只有苹果能在个人电脑市场取得成功。

And it's not just gonna be Apple that's gonna succeed in the PC market.

他们将引领所有这些围绕个人电脑所需的配套企业。

They're gonna usher in all of these other enabling companies that you need around the PC.

所以，就像苹果是航空母舰，但你还需要周围的驱逐舰、护航舰艇，以及舰载机等等。

So, like, Apple is the aircraft carrier, but you need all the destroyers and the, you know, the ships around it and like all the planes on the ships and all that stuff.

于是他们开始为个人电脑产业链的零部件公司提供资金支持。

So they start financing component companies around the PC industry.

苹果公司和唐协助创立了一家名为坦登的公司，专门生产磁盘驱动器。

Apple and Don helped start a company called Tandon Corporation that makes disk drives.

他们是坦登公司的首批投资者。

They are first investors in Tandon.

坦登公司在几年后上市，市值突破15亿美元。

Tandon goes public after a couple years, reaches a market cap of over 1 and a half billion dollars.

这是在八十年代初期。

This is in the early eighties.

一家名为Printronics的公司生产打印机，一家名为Priam的公司生产磁盘驱动器，还有一家名为Dyson的公司生产用于磁盘驱动器的磁盘。

Company called Printronics that makes printers, a company called Priam that makes disk drives, a company called Dyson that makes magnetic disks, for the disk drives.

总而言之，我认为红杉资本最终围绕苹果公司以这种航母战略进行了约15笔投资，这推动了他们早期基金的大部分回报。

All told, I believe Sequoia ends up making about 15 investments kinda in this aircraft carrier strategy around Apple, and it drives much of their returns in these early funds.

他们在七八十年代期间还进行了一些其他值得注意的投资。

Some other notable investments that they make during the seventies and eighties.

1981年，他们投资了一家名为LSI Logic的公司，这家公司主要围绕个人电脑和计算领域，生产存储和网络产品。

In 1981, they invest in a company called LSI Logic, which makes you know, again, around PC and computing, they make storage and networking products.

1983年，仅仅两年后，LSI以当时纳斯达克历史上最大规模的IPO上市，筹集了1.53亿美元，你知道，这可是1.53亿美元啊。

In 1983, so just two years later, LSI goes public in the largest IPO on the Nasdaq in history at that point, raising a $153,000,000 in the IPO, which is, you know I mean, a $153,000,000.

这就像是今天的软银规模，你知道的，相当稳固。

That's like a solid, you know, SoftBank size around today.

这是红杉资本投资该公司两年后的事。

This is two years after Sequoia invested in the company.

然后，是的，经过通胀调整后，我的意思是，那大概在5亿到10亿的范围内，完全正确。

And then, yeah, inflation adjusted, I mean, that's in the sort of, 500 to 1,000,000,000 range Totally.

从他们筹集资金的角度来看。

In the way to think about how much they raised.

完全正确。

Totally.

1982年，正如我们记录的那样，他们投资了Trip和电子艺界，或者说是初期令人惊叹的软件。

1982, as we chronicled, they invest in Trip and Electronic Arts or amazing software in the beginning.

他们还在1982年投资了三康公司。

They also invest in three Com in 1982.

人们可能还记得3Com公司，它生产网络设备，后来收购了Palm公司和Palm Pilot。

Folks might remember 3Com, which was made networking gear and eventually bought Palm and and the Palm Pilot.

我之前不知道，3Com其实是直接从施乐PARC实验室分拆出来的。

3Com, I didn't realize, came directly out of Xerox PARC.

所以红杉资本在苹果之后做的另一件事，就是开始从施乐PARC、IBM西海岸分部这些老牌东海岸公司挖人，这些公司一直在培养技术人才、研发先进技术，而红杉则开始大规模将这些技术商业化。

So that's the other thing that Sequoia, you know, kinda on the back of Apple starts doing is they started raiding Xerox PARC and IBM's West Coast division and all of these old school East Coast companies that had been training these technologists and developing, you know, advanced technology, and they just start commercializing them left, right, and center.

1983年，他们投资了甲骨文和赛普拉斯半导体，这两家公司后来都取得了巨大成功。

1983, they invest in Oracle and also Cypress Semiconductor, both of which become massive successes.

然后在80年代

And then in '19 The eighties

关于Oracle我想强调的一点是，我们当然需要在某个时候做一期专门讲Oracle和Larry的节目。

one one point I wanna make on on Oracle before breezing because we'd of course, we need to do an an episode on Oracle and Larry at some point.

但有个惊人的事实是，Oracle在成立六年后才从Sequoia融资，而且他们最初仅用2000美元就完成了启动。

But there's a crazy thing here that, Oracle went six years before raising money from from Sequoia, and I think they had Bootstrap off of $2,000.

如果你仔细想想，它确实算是最早的纯粹软件公司之一。

And if you think about it, like, was really one of the first true software companies.

他们的资本效率极高，而Larry曾公开反对风投行业的崛起，用各种尖刻言辞抨击风投机构的行为——说他们试图控制公司、掠夺资产等等。

They were wildly capital efficient, and Larry was very outspoken against, you know, pushing back against this rising venture capital industry and speaking all kinds of, ill tongues of of the venture capitalists and what they do and come in and try and control companies and raid them, all these things.

当然最终六年后还是与Sequoia达成了合作，但起步模式与那些需要大量启动资金的公司截然不同。

And, of course, ends up partnering with with Sequoia six years in, but, a very different start than a lot of these other companies, which required much more capital to get going.

是啊。

Yeah.

我不想深入探讨的原因，是可能我对Oracle及其历史研究不够深入，说出来会显得不够专业。

And, the reason I didn't wanna dive too deep into it is that I might be speaking a bit out of school, not having done the deep dive on Oracle and their history yet.

不过要大胆推测的话，我认为部分原因在于...

But to jump in and speculate a little bit, I think part of the reason why