泰勒·斯威夫特（收购版）

百视达原本胜券在握，本不该输给Netflix，却因股东施压和高管变动，被迫犯下非受迫性失误。

Blockbuster had it in the bag and should not have lost to Netflix and due to shareholder agitation and executive reshuffling, was forced to make an unforced error.

没错。

Yes.

被迫犯下非受迫性失误。

Forced to make an unforced error.

这完全就是个非受迫性失误。

This is just a fully unforced error.

RCA告诉泰勒他们看到了现状，并表示，你知道的，我们确实喜欢你的演唱。

RCA tells Taylor they see what's going on and they're like, you know, we do like your singing.

我们认为你是个有才华的歌手。

We think you're a talented singer.

只是我们不太欣赏你的创作。

We're just not feeling your songwriting.

不可能。

No way.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Yes.

所以他们告诉她希望再培养她至少一年。

So they tell her they wanna keep her in development for at least another year.

他们不打算给她唱片合约。

They're not gonna give her a record deal.

但他们在培养期间想做的，就是让她少表演自己的作品。

But what they wanna do with her in development, they wanna have, you know, enough of this performing your own stuff.

唱作人那套东西。

Singer songwriter stuff.

我们会给你提供好歌，你负责演唱就行。

We'll feed you some good music, and you can sing that.

我们会给你些泡泡糖流行乐。

We will feed you teeny poppers.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我是说，这就像那种典型的低估年轻人才的现象，每个行业都会发生。

I mean, it's just it's this classic, like, underestimating young talent, and it happens in every industry.

我觉得人们太习惯于看到标准路径，以至于他们会下意识认为，即使你是史上最伟大的之一，但如果你非常年轻，那你就应该做其他年轻人做的事。

And I think people are so used to watching the standard path that they sort of assume that if you're, you know, one of the greatest of all time, but you're super young, well, you should do what other super young people do.

就是那种儿童流行乐的东西。

Do the, you know, kids bop stuff.

虽然不是儿童流行乐，但就是那种类型的东西。

It's not kids bop, but that that sort of thing.

所以，这几乎就像泰勒那句歌词说的：当你年轻时，他们以为你什么都不懂。

And so, like, I mean, it's it's almost this Taylor quote of or the Taylor lyric of when you are young, they assume you know nothing.

说真的，我这里有她的一句原话。

Literally, I've got a quote on this from her.

我不想只是成为又一个女歌手。

I didn't just wanna be another girl singer.

我希望有能让我与众不同的东西，我知道那必须是我的创作。

I wanted there to be something that set me apart and I knew that had to be my writing.

基本上，世界上有两种人。

Basically, are two types of people.

一种是把我看作艺术家，用我的音乐来评判我的人。

People who see me as an artist and judge me by my music.

另一种人用数字来评判我，比如我的年龄，这毫无意义。

The other people judge me by a number, my age, which means nothing.

在纳什维尔放弃一份重要的唱片合约并不是件常见的事，但我确实这么做了。

It's not really a popular thing to do in Nashville to walk away from a major record deal but that's what I did.

她所指的情况是，当RCA这么做时，她直接让他们滚蛋。

And what she's referring to is when RCA does this, she tells them she tells them to go f off.

她放弃了那份合约。

She walks out on her deal.

所以他们只是在敷衍她？

So they're just stringing her along?

是啊。

Yeah.

这不像她放弃唱片合约那样——我甚至不确定如果她签了约还能不能这样做。

It's not like she walked out on a record deal, which I don't even know if she could have if she'd signed it.

她放弃的是发展合约，但这就是她所说的。

She walks out on the development deal, but that's what she's talking about.

这太疯狂了。

Like, this is crazy.

在纳什维尔，每个人的梦想都是成功，而获得发展合约是实现梦想的重要一步。

Everybody's dream in Nashville is to make it and having a development deal is a huge part of it.

而她就这样直接拒绝了。

And she's just like, no.

我虽然拿到了大厂牌的发展合约，但他们不认同我想做的音乐，所以我选择退出。

I've got a development deal with a major label but I'm they don't believe in what I wanna do so I'm walking out.

因此在《最亮的星》中，迈克尔写道：要理解RCA的决定并尽可能宽容地看待他们，就需要更好地理解当时音乐行业的变革格局。

So in Brightest Star, Michael writes, to understand RCA's decision and to be as generous as possible to them here is to better understand the shifting music landscape of the time.

那确实算不上乡村音乐的黄金时代。

It was not exactly a golden age for country music.

青少年群体不再大量购买乡村音乐唱片，纳什维尔出产的音乐在某些圈子里被视为举步维艰，过度依赖老龄化的粉丝群体。

Teenagers were no longer buying into it in significant numbers and the music coming out of Nashville was seen in some circles to be floundering and heavily reliant on its aging fan base.

这确实是事实。

And that was definitely true.

就像，当时我们都在成长过程中，你知道全国青少年对他们喜欢的音乐最常说的一句话是什么？

Like, there were, you know, I've shoot, we were both growing up at the time, like, what was, like, the number one thing that kids would say all over the country about the music they like?

我喜欢任何音乐，除了乡村音乐。

I like anything but country.

我不喜欢乡村音乐。

I don't like country.

确实。

Yes.

当时有很多另类摇滚。

There was a lot of alternative rock.

嘻哈音乐正逐渐摆脱八九十年代的传统风格，变得更加流行化，但主流仍是重型的另类摇滚。

The hip hop had was sort of graduating out of what hip hop had been in the eighties and nineties and becoming more pop, but it was still, like, heavy alt rock.

没错。

Yep.

所以RCA唱片公司当时的态度是：我们签了个14、15岁的新人，作为乡村音乐厂牌我们确实认为她有表演天赋。

And so RCA is kinda like, look, we've got a 14, 15 year old who we do think has talent as a performer or a country music label.

她想创作自己的音乐。

She wants to write her own music.

显然，这目标是针对青少年的，但青少年不听乡村音乐。

Obviously, that's gonna be aimed at teenagers, but teenagers don't listen to country.

我们需要在这里做出改变。

We need to change this up here.

这是我们一直看到的、非常特定的主题。

So this is such a acquired theme that we see all the time.

比如，是乡村音乐本身或其本质有什么问题，导致它对青少年缺乏吸引力吗？

Like, is it that there was something inherently wrong with country music or to its nature that made it not appeal to teenagers or etcetera?

不是。

No.

当然不是。

Of course not.

只是当时没有人专门为青少年创作乡村音乐。

It's just that nobody was making country music for teenagers at the time.

我记得我当时想，嗯，我不是那种听乡村音乐的人。

I remember thinking like, well, I'm not like a country type of person.

所以与其说是音乐本身的问题，不如说是：我是否认同我认为会听这种音乐的那类人？

And so it was less about the music itself and more about, do I identify with the type of person who I perceive to listen to that thing?

其他类型的音乐也是如此。

And it's the same with any other sort of music.

电影也经常是这样。

It's often the same with movies too.

这是一种自我认同和社群构建的形式，只是碰巧以这种声音呈现。

It's it's a form of, like, self identification and community building that just so happens to sound like this.

我觉得没错。

I think that's right.

这让我联想到汽车行业和特斯拉。

Well, what this makes me think of is, like, the auto industry and Tesla.

对吧？

Right?

在特斯拉之前，至少在硅谷，做个爱车人士已经不那么酷了。

Like, before Tesla, it wasn't, like, cool to be a at least in Silicon Valley to be, like, a car person anymore.

大家都开普锐斯，因为觉得'我不在乎车'，你懂的。

Like, everybody drove a Prius because, like, oh, I don't care about cars, you know.

但究竟是汽车真的不再能以同样方式融入人们生活，还是没人针对那个群体打造合适的车？

But was it that really, like, cars weren't something that could be part of people's lives in the same way anymore or just that nobody had made a car targeted at that demographic.

没错。

Right.

一辆能在你圈子里彰显身份的车。

That you could use to signal within your community.

是的。

Yep.

于是泰勒·斯威夫特用她独特的方式决定这次要自己举办试唱会。

So t swift decides in her own inimitable fashion that she's gonna host her own audition this time.

她没以自由艺人身份重新跑唱片公司，而是预订了纳什维尔的蓝鸟咖啡馆——一个传奇场地，加斯·布鲁克斯就是在这里被发掘的。

So rather than going back on the circuit out to all the labels now that she's a free agent, She books the Bluebird Cafe in Nashville, which is like a legendary venue and, was where Garth Brooks was discovered.

她邀请城里所有唱片公司高管来看她表演。

She invites all the label execs in town to come see her perform.

她堪称纳什维尔青少年乡村音乐界的迈克尔·奥维茨。

She's the Michael Ovitz of the teen country music industry in Nashville.

对吧？

Right?

她更像是在为自己举办拍卖会，而不是参加试镜。

She's like holding an auction for her herself rather than trying out.

其中一位出席的高管是名叫斯科特·伯切塔的人，据我所知这场活动参与者众多。

So one of the execs who shows up, and and it was, I think apparently well attended, is a man named Scott Borchetta.

斯科特是环球唱片纳什维尔分公司的高管，他正计划离开环球自立门户成立独立厂牌。

Scott is an executive at, you know, one of Universal's sub labels in Nashville, and he's planning to leave Universal and start his own label.

于是他在演出后找到泰勒，向她抛出橄榄枝说：我想签下你，给你一份真正的唱片合约。

So he finds Taylor after the show and he pitches her and says, hey, like, I I wanna sign you and I wanna sign you to a a real record deal.

我想和你合作制作专辑。

I wanna make an album with you.

不过我即将离开环球创立自己的独立厂牌，希望你能在我身上赌一把。

I'm about to leave Universal though and start my own indie label and I want you to take a risk off me.

我真心看好你。

And I really believe in you.

我相信你有创作能力。

I believe that you can write your own songs.

你能做出属于青少年的乡村音乐。

You can make country music for teenagers.

我觉得这事绝对能成。

Like, I think this is really gonna work.

泰勒并没有立刻同意。

And Taylor doesn't agree right away.

斯科特花了一些时间说服她和她的家人，但他们最终决定这么做。

It takes a little bit of time of Scott pitching her and her family to do this, but they decide to do it.

泰勒有句话说得很好，你能感觉到谁真正懂你。

Taylor has this quote, you can tell when someone just really gets you.

签下唱片合约最棒的部分不只是合约本身，而是这份合约正适合我。

The best part of getting a record deal wasn't just there was a record deal, it was the right deal for me.

我和我信任的人在一起，他们也信任我。

I'm with people I believe in, and they believe in me.

为了强调他们彼此承担的风险有多大，泰勒·斯威夫特是斯科特新厂牌Big Machine的第一位签约艺人。

To underscore how much of a chance they were taking on each other, Taylor Swift was Scott's new label, Big Machine's very first client.

所以双方都在对方身上押注。

So both of them taking a chance on each other.

没错。

Yep.

我不确定是在签这份唱片合约的同时，还是稍早或稍后，但斯威夫特家族和Big Machine之间还有另一笔交易。

And I don't know if it was in conjunction with doing this record deal or a little bit before or a little bit after, but there's another transaction that happens between the Swift family and Big Machine.

对。

Right.

斯科特·博切塔需要一些启动资金。

Scott Borchetta needed some financing to get this off the ground.

制作和发行专辑都需要花钱。

Like, it costs money to make an album, to distribute an album.

对。

Right.

那他钱从哪来的？

So where does he get the money?

其中一个来源是小股东泰勒的父亲。

Well, one place he gets it from a minority investor is Taylor's dad.

斯威夫特家族向大机器唱片投资12万美元，获得该厂牌3%的股份。

The Swift family invests a $120,000 in Big Machine for a 3% stake in the label.

大概三吧。

Three ish.

有报道说是3%，也有说4%的。

It's been reported in a few different 3%, 4%.

反正差不多就这个范围。

So so but somewhere in that ballpark.

他们说是2%到4%之间。

Somewhere in they call it two to 4%.

不过大部分外部资金来自——我觉得这事没怎么被讨论过。

The majority of the outside capital though comes from, I don't think this has been talked about that much.

我搞明白时简直震惊了。

This blew my mind when I figured it out.

我想我已经告诉过你资金来源了。

I think I already told you who it comes from.

来自托比·基思，就是那个著名乡村歌手，他显然在纳什维尔是个商业大亨——没错。

Comes from Toby Keith, the, like, big country singer who apparently is, like, a huge business mogul in Nashville and in the Yep.

国家大事。

Business of country.

几年前《福布斯》有篇大文章说他的身价大约五亿美元。

There's a big Forbes article from a couple years ago talking about how he's worth, like, half a billion dollars.

他在音乐事业之外一直是个超级精明的商人。

He's been a super, super savvy business person outside of his musical career.

于是托维投入大部分资金启动项目，大机器唱片与环球和他之前的主厂牌达成发行协议，就这样开始运营了。

So Tovey invests the majority of the money to get it going, and Big Machine does a distribution deal with Universal with his former major label for distribution, and, they're up and running.

是的。

Yep.

鉴于大机器和泰勒之间最终发生的历史对立（我们稍后肯定会讲到），值得强调的是她当时没有唱片合约，而这个人愿意为一个未经市场验证的艺人提供唱片合约。

Because history has been so antagonistic between Big Machine and Taylor based on what would end up happening, which we will definitely get to, it is worth underscoring she didn't have a record deal, and this was a person who was willing to give her a record deal on an unproven artist.

就像我们整期节目都需要为艺术家权益发声一样，那些真正创作出大众喜爱作品的人值得保护。

And I think in the same way that we would need to, throughout this entire episode, advocate for the rights of the artist and the person really creating something that people love.

这世界上敢于给人机会的行为本身也有其价值。

There is also real value in the world in taking a chance on someone.

当然这不意味着你冒一次小险就能获得无限回报，但必须承认这确实是个风险。

Now, that doesn't mean you have infinite upside from taking a small chance once, but it is worth recognizing that this was a risk.

没错。

Right.

大卫，你觉得现在适合插播一段音乐版权运作的科普吗？

David, do you think this is a good area to do a little sidebar on how music licensing works?

当然可以。

Absolutely.

比如，泰勒签下这份唱片合约意味着什么？

Like, what does it mean when Taylor signs this record deal?

过去几周深入研究这些内容对我来说是个有趣的副业项目。

So this has been a fun side project for me over the last few weeks diving into all of this.

听众需要记住的是，版权法的初衷是激励创新和创造力。

The thing to keep in mind as you listen is to remember the purpose of copyright law is to spur innovation and creativity.

这一点适用于所有版权领域。

This is true across copyrights.

同样适用于商标、专利及整个知识产权领域。

This is true across trademarks, patents, IP in general.

所以在收听本期剩余内容时，请始终牢记这个激励创新和创造力的初衷。

So keep thinking back on this purpose to spur innovation and creativity as you hear the whole rest of the episode.

并不断思考：这些法律是否正按初衷被使用？

And keep thinking back, Are these laws being used as intended?

如果你有兴趣深入了解，这里有几个非常优质的资源。

So there are a few really great sources on this if you're interested in learning more.

首先是The Verge和Switched On Pop合作的精彩跨界播客，我们会在节目备注里附上链接。

The first is an excellent crossover podcast between, The Verge and Switched On Pop, which we'll link to in the show notes.

是啊。

Yeah.

Switched On Pop。

Switched On Pop.

太棒了。

So good.

另一本是传奇音乐律师唐·帕斯曼所著的关于音乐产业的书籍，目前已是第十版。

The other is a book from, the legendary music attorney, Don Passman, on the music business, which is on its tenth edition.

这反映了近期诸多变化所带来的修订次数之多。

That's how many sort of revisions there have been based on all these changes recently.

但这里有两个重要事项需要记住。

But two big things to remember here.

当一首音乐作品诞生时，会同时产生两项版权。

When a piece of music is created, there are two copyrights that come into existence.

第一项是录音版权，也称为母带录音或母带，传统上由唱片公司所有。

The sound recording copyright, the first one, which is also called a master recording or a master, which traditionally is owned by the record label.

这确实如字面意思所示。

So this is literally what it sounds like.

这是对他们在录音室实际录制音乐的具体版权，即最终呈现并被人耳听到的版本。

It is a copyright on the literal recording of the music that they did in the studio, the way it came out and can be heard by your ears.

历史上，唱片公司通过承担投资风险、发行和推广艺人作品，来获得这些母带或录音版权的所有权。

And historically, a label takes ownership of these masters or recording copyrights in exchange for assuming the financial risk of betting on, distributing, promoting the artist's work.

这就是第一项版权。

So that's the first copyright.

这让我感觉像是老派的风险投资行业。

It feels like the old school venture capital industry to me.

就像七八十年代、九十年代那样，投资者出资后会获得公司的大部分股权。

Like when, you know, back in the eighties, nineties, seventies, when the investors would take the majority of the company for putting up the money to do it.

是的。

Yes.

归根结底，万物皆市场。

And, ultimately, everything's a market.

因此它完全由供需关系决定，需要通过协商市场条款来承担适当风险。

So it's just determined by supply and demand and market terms that need to be agreed upon in order to take the appropriate risk.

随着你深入风险投资行业，由于资本对回报的渴求，市场条款已发生巨变以适应这类高风险投资。

And, as you're staying with the venture capital industry, the market terms have changed tremendously to take that type of risk because the appetite for capital, because of the returns that can be generated.

但在音乐行业，归根结底只有三大唱片公司，却有无数人梦想成为明星。

But in the music industry, there are essentially only, three labels when you get down to it, and there are a lot of people who wanna be stars.

第二种是音乐作品著作权（即出版权）。

So the second one is the musical composition copyright or the publishing right.

这包括书面歌词和旋律，传统上由词曲作者通过其音乐出版商持有。

And now these are, like, the written lyrics and the melody, and they're traditionally held by the songwriters themselves through their music publishers.

你可以这样理解：音乐作品著作权就像是能写在乐谱上的创意与表达。

The way you can kinda think about this sort of the idea and the execution, the musical composition copyrights, it's kinda like something you could put down on sheet music.

这相当于歌曲的构思，但尚未实际演奏出音符。

This is like the idea of the song, but you haven't actually played a note.

当音符被演奏录制后，就形成了母带版权。

And then once the notes are played and recorded, that's the that's the master.

现在说回音乐作品著作权。

So back now to the musical composition copyright.

我提过这些权利可由词曲作者持有，但通常通过音乐出版商运作。

I mentioned these can be held by songwriters, but usually through a music publisher.

出版商处理这些作品版权的方式，与唱片公司处理母带版权如出一辙。

The publishers tend to deal with these composition copyrights the same way that the music labels deal with the masters.

历史上，这些出版商通过作曲版权能获得50%的版税分成。

And historically, these publishers would take 50% of the royalties that come through the composition copyright.

但如今他们的分成比例已大幅降低。

But today, they actually take a lot less.

对于知名词曲作者，可能只需向出版商支付固定费用来处理后台事务。

So for bigger songwriters, it might just be that the songwriter pays the publisher a fixed fee to do some back office stuff.

因此实质上，可以理解为词曲作者自己拥有音乐作品版权和发行权，并能自主决定是否授权特定用途。

So for all intents and purposes, you can think about it like the songwriter themselves owns their own musical composition copyrights, the publishing rights, and they they can make the decision on whether or not they want to license that for specific purposes.

顺便说下出版商——虽然如今相对唱片公司或大明星他们权力有限，但在录音技术出现前的时代，当发行权还是主要权利时，他们曾拥有惊人的影响力。

And a quick aside on publishers, even though they don't have a lot of relative power today to, like, the labels or big stars, they used to be insanely powerful in the era before recorded music when the publishing rights were the major rights.

哦，没错。

Oh, right.

就像乐谱那样。

The sheet music was like it.

正是。

Exactly.

由于过去歌手和创作者往往是分开的，这意味着艺人和唱片公司完全受制于拥有乐谱版权的出版商，这段历史演变相当有趣。

And since the singers didn't used to be the same as the songwriters, and that that meant that the artist and the recording labels were, like, totally at the mercy of these publishers who owned the sheet music rights, which is like a fascinating little walk down history.

这两大权利构成了音乐产业的基础框架。

And so these are the two big building blocks upon which everything else is built.

不同音乐使用场景需要获得其中一项或两项授权。

Some uses of music require one of these approvals, and some other use cases require both.

所以存在两方权利主体——录音母带权所有者和发行权所有者，在需要双重授权的使用场景中双方都拥有否决权。

So there's sort of two different parties, whoever owns the sound recording master right and whoever owns the publishing right, both sort of have a veto right on who can use the final product for the use cases that do require both.

根据音乐的用途，分成比例和产生的收入会有天壤之别。

And depending on the use of the music, the splits and the income that is generated are wildly, wildly different.

最后还有一个小问题，可能一直萦绕在你们脑海中。

So one little final thing here, just because it might be sort of hanging in your head.

那共同创作者呢？

What about co writers?

有趣的是，歌曲创作署名权可以任意分配，由创作者之间私下协商决定。

Well, songwriting credits, interestingly enough, can be split any which way and are privately negotiated by the songwriters with each other.

因此某些需要出版许可的授权场景中，可能需要多位共同创作者分别签署同意，资金流向也可能完全不同。

So it's possible that for some types of approvals that require the publishing license, there might be multiple people who wrote the song together that each have to sign off for that use case, and the money can flow in totally unique ways too.

可能是50.5美元。

So it could be $50.50.

可能是90.1美元。

It could be $90.10.

也可能是一笔固定费用。

It could be a flat fee.

假设泰勒邀请了一位你从未听说过的嘉宾。

Let's say Taylor brings a guest on who's someone you've never heard of.

她可能会支付固定费用或5%版税之类的。

She may pay a flat fee or a 5% royalty or something.

比如莉兹·罗斯和泰勒在《All Too Well》《Tim McGraw》这些歌上肯定有某种协议。

So, like, for Liz Rose and, you know, with all too well and Tim McGraw and the like, there's some deal between her and Taylor.

没错。

Right.

但这些都是独立私下协商的。

But all independently privately negotiated.

有意思。

Interesting.

所以你当时说，通常情况下，出版商会保留约50%的歌曲创作收益，创作者保留50%。

So you said at the time, typically, the publishers would keep, like, 50% of the songwriting economics and the writers would keep 50%.

即使这样，从艺人角度看，比起母带录制方面与唱片公司的分成，这已经非常不错了。

Even that was very good from the artist perspective compared to the splits with the labels on the master side.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Exactly.

是的。

Yeah.

当你签下一份发行协议，唱片公司预先出资，你制作专辑，他们就拥有了母带权。你的版税分成——虽然也是独立协商的——最终你只能拿到10%到15%。

When you sign a distribution deal where a record label fronts you the money, you make the album, they then own the master, Your royalty stream, again, independently negotiated, but you only end up with, like, 10%, 15%.

如果你是大牌艺人，或许能拿到22%左右。

Maybe if you're a really big artist, you can get, like, 22%.

但绝大部分收益都归唱片公司所有。

But the vast majority of those economics are going to the record label.

这里我们该提到回本这个概念了。

And this is where we should mention the idea of recoupment.

对。

Right.

只有在你收回成本后，才能参与那些收益分成。

You only get to participate in those revenues if you've recouped your

预付款。

The advance.

成本。

The cost.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

这就像一笔预付的预付款。

It's like a an upfront advance.

所以这就像图书出版的模式？

So it's like book publishing?

正是如此。

Exactly.

所以如果唱片公司和你签了合约，给你50万美元，不管你的CD卖得有多火，或者Spotify播放量有多高。

And so if a record label signs a deal with you and they give you $500,000, well, it doesn't matter if your CDs are flying off the shelves or your, you know, Spotify streams are happening.

在最初应支付给你的50万美元里，唱片公司会扣下这笔钱，只有在你收回预付款后，才能参与你那份15%的分成（无论具体比例是多少）。

For the first $500,000 that should be paid out to you, the record labels are gonna keep that, and you only get to participate in your 15%, whatever it is, after you've recouped the advance.

这就像风险投资在股权结构表中的优先股设置。

It's like a VC preference stack on a cap table.

这完全就是同一回事，我稍后想详细谈谈这个。

It is literally exactly what it is, and I wanna talk about that later.

这太拜占庭式了，简直像是来自一个完全不同的时代。

It's so Byzantine, and it's so from just, like, a different era.

没错。

Right.

以前制作专辑要花很多钱，而要让它在电台播放、获得分销渠道、吸引粉丝进行客户获取，那更是要砸下巨额资金。

The way it cost a lot of money to make an album, and it cost an even more boatload of money to get it on radio and get distribution and get fans to, you know, do customer acquisition for it.

更重要的是，我认为这正体现了那种常被视为掠夺性交易的本质。

And more important than that, and this is, I think, what represents what's sort of, like, often perceived as a predatory deal.

这些初创公司、这些艺人大多数都会失败。

Most of these startups, most of these artists are gonna fail.

唱片公司、图书出版商或风投机构投入了所有这些资金，才能看到项目是否可行。

And the record labels or the book publishers or the VCs are gonna have sunk all this money in to get to a point where we can even see if it's gonna work.

当超过90%的初创企业失败时——虽然我不清楚音乐行业的失败率具体是多少——你就需要某种经济分配机制，让你押注的成功项目收益能够弥补所有失败项目的损失。

And when 90 plus percent I don't know what the failure rate is in the music industry, but when, you know, ninety plus percent of startups fail, well, you need some kind of economic split so that the benefit of the winners that you bet on can more than make up for all of the losers that you bet on.

对。

Right.

就像风投基金一样。

Just like in a VC fund.

但我觉得现在这一切已经完全改变了。

But this is what, you know, now I think has completely changed.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

在旧世界里确实如此，你得先投入大笔资金才能知道某人是否有观众。

All that's true in the old world where you gotta invest all this money before you know if somebody has an audience.

好吧。

Alright.

那么回到泰勒·斯威夫特的话题。

So back to T Swift.

于是她和Big Machine开始制作首张专辑。

So she and Big Machine, they start making the debut album.

在制作过程中，泰勒创建了一个MySpace主页。

While they're making it, Taylor puts up a MySpace page.

这正是当时所有青少年都在做的事。

It's what all the teenagers are doing at the time.

看那个。

Look at that.

直接面向她的粉丝。

Going direct to her fans.

想象一下直接触达粉丝的情形，尽管她还没登上电台，尽管这里没人投入任何资金。

Imagine that going direct to her fans even though she's not on the radio, even though nobody's spending any money here.

她还亲自参与了制作的选择。

She also chooses, you know, for the production.

再说一次，斯科特和Big Machine他们确实有真金白银。

Again, like, Scott and Big Machine, they've got real money.

他们有托比·基思在背后支持。

They've got Toby Keith behind them.

他们拥有环球唱片。

They've got Universal.

就是说，他们能调动大量资源。

Like, they have access to a lot of resources.

泰勒的态度是，不行。

Taylor's like, no.

她坚持要让当初制作她试听带的那个人——内森·查普曼来当她的制作人，他们之间特别合拍。

I want the guy who did my demo to be my producer, a guy named Nathan Chapman, who she has a great vibe with.

最关键的是，她态度坚决：不行。

And most importantly, she's like, no.

我要掌控这一切。

I wanna control this.

我要主导音乐的风格走向。

Like, I wanna control what this sounds like.

虽然很多歌是我和莉兹共同创作的，但这些歌代表的就是我。

I wrote these songs together with Liz with a lot of them, but, like, I'm the song.

在这里，我说了算。

Like, I am in control here.

于是在2006年6月，他们发行了新专辑的首支单曲。

So in June 2006, they release the first single from the forthcoming album.

这首歌叫《蒂姆·麦格劳》。

It's Tim McGraw.

借助Myspace平台，她的作品获得了2000万次互动。

Thanks to Myspace, she has 20,000,000 interactions.

哇哦。

Woah.

太疯狂了。

Crazy.

然后在10月24日，专辑终于发行了，泰勒在专辑的内页注释中写道。

Then on October 24, the album is finally released and Taylor writes in the liner notes on the album.

我爱每一个启发我创作歌曲的人，无论你是否知道。

I love everyone who has inspired me to write a song whether you know it or not.

我爱所有在电台播放我的歌时调大音量的人，所有购买这张专辑的人，所有能在我现场演唱时跟着合唱的人，所有在电台点播过我的歌甚至记得我名字的人。如果你们在公共场合见到我，我想认识你们。

I love anyone who has ever turned the volume up when my song comes on the radio, anyone who has bought this album, anyone who can sing along to my songs when I play them live, anyone who's ever requested my song on the radio or even remembered my name, if you ever see me in public, I want to meet you.

我会亲自感谢你们。

I will thank you myself.

你们让我走进了你们的生活，我永远感激不尽。

You have let me into your life and I will never be able to thank you enough for that.

我爱你们。

I love you.

我感谢上帝让你们出现在我的生命中。还有个小附言：对那些自以为很酷又伤透我心的男孩们，猜怎么着？

I love God for putting you in my life And then little PS, to all the boys who thought they were cool and break my heart, guess what?

这里有14首为你们写的歌。

Here are 14 songs written about you.

她真这么说了吗？

Did she say that?

她真的写了吗

Did she literally wrote

那个？

that?

那太好笑了。

That's so funny.

她很清楚自己的力量来源。

She knows where her power comes from.

而她的力量正来自那些与她直接互动的粉丝们。

And her power comes from the fans who she's connecting with directly.

我想见你。

I want to meet you.

我希望你主动来找我。

I want you to come up to me.

在公共场合跟我打招呼。

Say hi to me in public.

我会亲自感谢你。

I will thank you myself.

看她在那之后的十四年里在Tumblr上培育社区的行为简直疯狂。

Watching what she did for the next fourteen years after that in cultivating community on Tumblr is crazy.

这些年来她在Tumblr上与粉丝有27000次互动。

She has 27,000 interactions with fans on Tumblr over the years.

哇。

Wow.

这都是她亲自点赞、转发或评论的。

That is her personally liking or reblogging or commenting.

比如，她习惯用社交媒体直接与我的粉丝群体互动。

Like, she gets used social media to to directly interact with my community.

是的。

Yep.

她在互联网上与全球各地的青少年建立了联系。

She's connected with teenagers all around the world on the Internet.

那他们会怎么做呢？

And what are they gonna do?

他们会去买专辑。

They're gonna go buy the album.

特别是在2006年，那时我还经常买CD。

Especially in 2006 where I was frequently buying CDs.

2006年11月它闯入排行榜前200名，随后通过这个社交媒体帝国慢慢积累人气。

It cracks the top 200 in November 2006 and then slow build over this, you know, social media empire.

我甚至不知道该怎么形容泰勒正在构建的这个东西。

I don't even know what you call it that Taylor is building.

为了说明背景，这是在Instagram推出之前。

And and to contextualize this, this is before Instagram has launched.

对。

Yes.

而且我想可能甚至还在Tumblr出现之前，或者就在Tumblr刚开始的时候。

And I think maybe even still before Tumblr or right around the time Tumblr is starting.

于是在一年多后的2008年1月，连续63周保持在排行榜前200名后，它成为了全球销量第一的专辑。

So well over a year later, in January 2008, after sixty sixty three straight weeks in the top 200, it becomes the number one album in the world.

哇。

Wow.

最终登上了公告牌Top 200总榜。

It ends up in total on the Billboard top 200.

在榜单上停留了275周。

It spends two hundred and seventy five weeks on the charts.

试问还有哪个艺术家和专辑能做到这样？

Like, what other artist and album could do that?

尤其是一个16岁的孩子？

Especially from a 16 year old?

专辑发行时她才15岁。

She was 15 when it came out.

是啊。

Yeah.

太疯狂了。

Wild.

简直疯狂至极。

Totally wild.

泰勒真的太聪明了。

So Taylor, she's so smart.

她通过社交媒体与粉丝建立直接联系，不断创新，在许多方面都是开拓者。

She's building this whole direct relationship with her fans, social media, innovating, pioneering in so many ways.

同时她也精通传统运作方式。

She also is a master of the traditional way of doing things too.

那么艺术家在发行首张专辑后，传统上会做什么事情呢？

So what is the traditional thing that an artist would do after they drop their first album?

巡演，做宣传。

Tour, you do press.

首张专辑时你可能还不会自己办专场巡演。

You're probably not on your first album gonna go do a headliner tour yourself.

你会去给其他巡演当开场嘉宾。

You're gonna go be the opening act for other tours.

首先，她开始为Hootie and the Blowfish开场，这是她担任开场的第一支大牌乐队，非常棒。

So first, she starts opening for Hootie and the Blowfish is the first big act that she opens for, which is awesome.

然后是Rascal Flats，而Rascal Flats后来会回到Big Machine厂牌。

Then Rascal Flats, and Rascal Flats is gonna come back into Big Machine later.

完美。

Perfect.

接着是George Strait、Brad Paisley，最后是Tim McGraw和Faith Hill的巡演。

Then George Strait, Brad Paisley, and then finally, Tim McGraw on Faith Hill.

所以她的首支单曲《Tim McGraw》发行时，恰好以担任Tim McGraw和Faith Hill巡演开场嘉宾的身份，结束了职业生涯的开场阶段。

So literally, the first single, Tim McGraw, she ends the opening act phase of her career opening for Tim McGraw and Faith Hill.

当时Brad Paisley有段关于为何想邀请泰勒担任开场嘉宾的惊人发言。

There is this unbelievable quote from Brad Paisley at the time about why he wanted Taylor to come open for her.

他说：'我听了她的专辑后打电话给经纪人说，我们必须请她来巡演。'

He says, I called my manager when I heard her album and said we have to get her out on tour.

她16岁就能写出那样的唱片，优秀得不可思议。

For her to have written that record at 16, it's crazy how good it is.

我原以为听到后会觉得，嗯，这对16岁来说不错，但实际上它适合任何年龄段。

I figured I'd hear it and think, well, it's good for 16, but it's just flat out good for any age.

她已达到我永远无法企及的高度，她以开创性的方式吸引新观众并宣告：'我是乡村歌手'，而他们为此着迷。

She is operating at a level I will never reach already in the groundbreaking way that she has taken a new audience and said, I'm a country singer and they love it.

哇。

Wow.

太不可思议了。

That's amazing.

强烈的措辞。

Strong words.

快进到2008年11月。

So fast forward to November 2008.

美国正处于金融危机中。

The country is in the financial crisis.

雷曼兄弟已破产倒闭，你知道的，大萧条时期，诸如此类的那些事。

Lehman Brothers has gone under its doom and gloom, you know, for great recession, blah blah blah, all that stuff.

爱彼迎和优步刚起步。

Airbnb and Uber are starting.

泰勒发布了第二张专辑——我最爱的《Fearless》。

Taylor drops the second album, my favorite album, Fearless.

天啊。

Oh my gosh.

这张专辑里有太多爆款歌曲了。

There are so many bangers on this album.

《Fearless》、《15》、《Love Story》、《Hey Steven》、《white horse》以及《you belong with me》。

Fearless, 15, Love Story, Hey Steven, white horse, and you belong with me.

这些只是这张专辑按顺序排列的前六首歌。

Those are just the first six tracks in order on this album.

哇哦。

Woah.

我还以为你在列举所有热门歌曲呢。

I thought you were naming all the hits.

不是。

No.

这些只是前六首曲目而已。

Those are just the first six tracks.

虽然它们可能是专辑里最棒的六首歌，不过确实如此。

Now they are probably the best six tracks on the album, but, yeah.

这张专辑简直太厉害了。

This is a hell of an album.

与需要长达一年慢热社交媒体宣传才登顶的首张同名专辑不同，这张专辑直接空降公告牌二百强专辑榜冠军，并蝉联十一周——这是自1999年Santana的《Supernatural》以来最长的纪录。

So unlike the debut self titled album, which takes a year of, like, this slow burn social media campaign to hit number one, it debuts at number one on the Billboard Hot 200 chart where it stays for eleven weeks, the longest since Santana's Supernatural in 1999.

它成为乡村音乐艺人史上蝉联前十最久的专辑，她也因此成为最年轻的年度销量冠军艺人，更是唯一获此殊荣的乡村音乐女歌手。

The longest in the top 10 by a country artist, ever, And she becomes the youngest artist to have what would go on to become the best selling album of the year and the only female country artist ever to have the best selling album of the year.

关于这张专辑，我觉得还有几点值得特别说明。

There's another couple things about this album that I think are worth pointing out.

由于她已成年并开始积累真实世界阅历，其创作风格正从那些可能未曾亲身经历、偏理论性质的情歌与分手歌曲，转向更具自传性质的音乐。

Because she's more of an adult now and having real world experiences, she is starting to shift her songwriting from being, like, love songs and breakup songs about things that she may or may not have experienced that are sort of theoretical into I'm now doing autobiographical music.

这讲述的是我作为一个十五六岁青少年时的经历。

And this is about me as a, you know, mid teenager and the things that I'm experiencing.

这种情况基本上一直持续到《Folklore》专辑时期。

And that would go on basically until Folklore.

到了《Folklore》和《Evermore》时期，她开始转变风格，重新创作关于虚构人物、历史人物和其他人的歌曲。在此之前长达十年间，她的创作一直保持着这种自传体风格——记录自己过去几年的生活经历。

Folklore and and evermore when she starts to shift and start writing songs about fictional characters and historical characters and other people again, she had this sort of, like, autobiographical thing of here's what I've going through the last couple years of my life for the next decade of her career.

而这正是那种转变的起点。

And this is really where that kinda starts.

这个观点非常到位。

That's such a good point.

因为首张专辑的创作背景，以及那些称赞她作为词曲作者才华横溢的评价...

Because the origin the first album and, you know, all those quotes about how amazing she was as a songwriter Yeah.

都是关于她的观察力、想象力，以及从自身视角讲述他人故事的能力。

Were about her powers of observation and imagination and being able to write other people's stories from her perspective.

但你说得对。

But you're right.

是啊。

Yeah.

然后从我们2022年1月的视角回望，中间经历了很长一段专注于个人经历的创作时期，之后她又回归了叙事性创作。

Then there's this, like, a long or long from our perspective here in January 2022, middle period of writing about her own experiences, and then she comes back to storytelling.

没错。

Yeah.

而且她这时开始因为曲风逐渐脱离乡村乐、偏向流行乐而受到一些非议，这种争议现在看来颇具预见性——你们猜她后来怎么应对这种转变？

And she's also starting to take a little bit of heat here for becoming less country and becoming a little bit more pop, which is like a funny foreshadow because what does she do with that?

比如她后来发行了《1989》，然后就像，你知道吗？

Like, she does 1989 later, and it's like, you know what?

管他呢。

Screw it.

纯流行风。

Full on pop.

回到《Fearless》时期，她赢得了年度专辑奖，成为格莱美史上最年轻的年度专辑获奖者。

So back to Fearless, she wins the album of the year, the Grammy for album of the year, making her the youngest artist ever to win album of the year.

之后她再次踏上巡演，这次当然不再是暖场嘉宾，而是以主唱身份开启首个真正的大型巡演——Fearless巡演，在斯台普斯中心、麦迪逊广场花园等大型场馆演出。

So then she goes back out on tour, not as the opening act this time, of course, but as the headliner, her first real tour that's around the fearless tour, playing big arenas like Staples Center, Madison Square Garden.

这些场馆的大部分票务信息，当然是通过她与粉丝的直接网络联系，粉丝们能第一时间知道售票时间。

Most of these places, like, of course, through her online direct connection with fans, they know when tickets are available.

门票基本在一分钟内就售罄。

They're they sell out in, like, a minute.

这次巡演总收入超过6300万美元。

The tour grosses over $63,000,000.

她为超过百万名观众现场表演。

She plays in front of over a million fans.

而就在这一切进行得如火如荼时，2009年9月13日纽约无线电城音乐厅——

And then right in the middle of all this, on 09/13/2009 in New York City, Radio City Music Hall.

对。

Yes.

我之前没注意到这件事也发生在13号。

I didn't realize this happened on the thirteenth too.

当然，确实如此。

Of course, it did.

当然，这事发生在13号。

Of course, it happened on the thirteenth.

是泰勒·斯威夫特。

It's Taylor Swift.

泰勒凭借《You Belong With Me》赢得最佳女歌手录影带奖。

Taylor wins best female video for You Belong With Me.

需要说明的是，这并非当晚最重要的录影带奖项。

Which to be clear is is not the biggest video word of the night.

不是。

Nope.

不是。

Nope.

不是。

Nope.

不是。

Nope.

当晚还有最佳整体录影带奖尚未揭晓，但有人要么不知道，要么根本不在乎。

There is best overall video still to come in the night, but somebody either is unaware about that or doesn't care.

某个喝醉的说唱歌手以为这就是最大奖项。

Some drunk rapper thought this was the big prize.

我想我们都知道接下来发生了什么。

I think we all know what happens next.

在《Acquired》节目里讨论坎耶和泰勒的恩怨有点滑稽，但这确实成为了泰勒职业生涯商业故事的重要部分。

It's kind of funny to, like, talk about the the Kanye Taylor moment on acquired, but this actually becomes, like, such a huge part of the business story of Taylor's career.

确实挺有趣的。

It's funny.

这件事激发了她接下来十余年的创作灵感。

It inspires so much of her next decade plus.

这是她所有后续事业的转折点，而她之后的所有行动又深刻改变了音乐产业的格局。

It's a seminal point in everything that she does from there, and everything that she does from there inspires a lot of change in the music business.

就像那个网络梗图——你推倒一个小东西，却在多年后引发巨大连锁反应，就像多米诺骨牌效应。

And so this point I mean, it's almost like that meme where, like, you tip over a small little thing and then a huge impact happens years later, like a little domino thing.

完全同意。

Totally.

你知道的，醉醺醺的坎耶冲上台说'我会让你说完...巴拉巴拉'那件事。

But, you know, drunk Kanye getting up and I'm a let you finish blah blah blah.

那就像个催化剂，彻底改变了音乐产业的经济模式。

Like, that was a catalyst moment that would change the economics of the music industry.

影响确实深远。

It would change so much.

当然不是要把功劳归给坎耶。

Well and not to credit Kanye with that.

这件事足以激怒泰勒，最终促使音乐产业经济模式发生变革。

That would piss Taylor off enough to eventually change the economics of the music industry.

不过坎耶本人肯定会把功劳揽在自己身上。

Well, Kanye would credit Kanye with that.

这在许多方面都堪称蝴蝶扇动翅膀的瞬间。

This was such a butterfly flapping its wings moment in so many ways.

具体来说，泰勒和坎耶的音乐从此永远改变了，从创作角度看可能是向好的方向。

There's the specific to there's the Taylor's music and Kanye's music, which forever changed probably for the better creatively.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，坎耶的《我的黑暗扭曲幻想》。

I mean, Kanye's my dark twisted fantasy.

《美丽的黑暗扭曲幻想》。

Beautiful dark twisted fantasy.

一张非凡的饱含挣扎的专辑。

Phenomenal tortured album.

就像史上最棒的播客之一。

I mean, like, one of the all time there's an amazing podcast.

没错。

Yes.

《解剖》第二季。

Dissect season two.

对。

Yes.

就是解剖那张专辑的季度。

The dissect season on that album.

如果你热爱音乐，花上这二十小时去聆听那张专辑的诞生过程，绝对是最值得的时间之一。

It's like one of the best twenty hours you can spend, going and listening, if you like music, to how that album came to be.

我几乎觉得在泰勒·斯威夫特这期节目里如此深情地谈论坎耶有点亵渎神明。

And I almost feel, sacrilegious speaking so fondly of Kanye on the Taylor Swift episode.

但他在做了蠢事之后给自己施加的那种折磨，或者说，

But the torture that he put himself through after being an idiot or or,

奥巴马怎么称呼他来着？

what did Obama call him?

什么？

What?

一个混蛋。

A jackass.

一个混蛋。

A jackass.

是啊。

Yeah.

想想看，美国总统因为那件事叫你混蛋，然后他就躲了起来，后来又从那种受伤的状态中带着那张惊艳的专辑重新出现。

Like, the president of The United States calls you a jackass for that, and, like, he goes into hiding and emerges, you know, creatively, from that wounded state with that amazing album.

所以我认为这里有三个层面的蝴蝶效应。

So I think there's three levels of butterfly wing flapping here.

是的。

Yes.

第一个是音乐创作方面，对泰勒和坎耶来说。

One is musically, creatively for Taylor and Kanye.

第二个是音乐产业的商业层面，我们将在接下来的节目里深入探讨。

Two is the business of the industry, which we're gonna get into in the rest of the episode here.

我觉得你甚至可以认为这其中还有更宏大的因素。

I think you could maybe argue there's also an element of, like, even bigger than that.

就是奥巴马那件事。

The Obama thing.

我直到今天早上才把这两件事联系起来。

I didn't put two and two together until just this morning.

你是指侃爷和特朗普的关系吗？

Is this the Kanye Trump relationship?

对啊，老兄。

Yeah, dude.

不会吧。

No way.

好吧。

Okay.

这是怎么回事？

How's this go?

我记得奥巴马当时在CNN还是CNBC之类的电视台。

Obama in I think it was, like, either CNN or CNBC or something.

他正在准备接受采访。

Like, he's setting up for an interview.

在摄像机开拍前的准备阶段，有人在讨论VMA颁奖礼上的那起事件。

And in the preshow setup with the cameras rolling, somebody's talking about the, you know, the incident at the VMAs.

而且奥巴马正好有两个十几岁的女儿，她们都是泰勒·斯威夫特的粉丝。

And, of course, Obama has two teenage daughters who love Taylor Swift.

他说了些类似的话，你知道，她看起来是个非常不错的年轻女士，而坎耶，他是个混蛋，大家都笑了。

It's he says something like, you know, she seems like a perfectly nice young lady and, you know, Kanye, he's a he's a jackass, and everybody laughs.

对吧？

Right?

其实坎耶是芝加哥人，他们过去确实有过交集，所以他觉得被奥巴马深深背叛了。

Well, Kanye is like a dude from Chicago, and there's, like, a real connection there in the past, and he feels so betrayed by Obama.

2020年到来时，那个时间点发生了很多事情。

2020 rolls around, and there's a lot a lot happening in that moment.

如果你去看当时的周边视频，也会发现一些很有意思的事情。

There's some fascinating things to watch too if you go watch the videos surrounding that moment.

因为当然，你知道，坎耶冲上舞台，泰勒听到大家都在嘘坎耶，她有点以为是在嘘自己。

Because, of course, you know, Kanye runs up on stage, says that Taylor hears booing from everyone booing Kanye, kinda thinks they're booing her.

所以她站在那里半笑不笑的，僵住了，不知所措。

So she's kinda standing there half smiling, frozen, like, what do I do?

她接下来当然还要继续表演。

She's, of course, performing in the like, right after this.

所以她最终下台调整状态，然后成功完成了表演。

So she ends up going off stage collecting herself and successfully performing.

红毯上被问及时，她的回应也表现得非常得体。

And she's asked on the red carpet she responds with such poise.

他们问她，你对坎耶·韦斯特有什么看法？

They they're like, do you think of Kanye West?

她说，呃，我其实并不真正了解这个人。

And she's like, I mean, I don't I don't really know the guy.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们问，你是粉丝吗？

And they're like, were you a fan?

她说，我是说，当然，他可是坎耶啊。

And she goes, I mean, yeah, he's Kanye.

你能看到她脸上那种对坎耶·韦斯特的失望之情逐渐消散。

And you can just see the, like, the disappointment draining from her face of, like, Kanye West.

泰勒·斯威夫特现在虽然很红，但那时她还不是现在的泰勒，而坎耶·韦斯特早就是那个坎耶了。

For as big as Taylor Swift is now, she wasn't Taylor Swift yet, but Kanye West was already Kanye West.

所以当坎耶在台上那样评价你时，那种打击有多沉重是显而易见的。

And so to be a person to have Kanye say that about you on stage, it's obvious how that is so debilitating.

而最讽刺的是，坎耶当时生气的原因是他认为碧昂丝的《单身女郎》是有史以来最伟大的MV之一——这确实没错，因为当晚这个视频后来获得了年度最佳音乐录影带奖，大家都认同这一点。

And then the deepest irony of all is that what Kanye was upset about is that he felt that Beyonce had one of the greatest videos of all time for single ladies, which she did, which everybody agreed on because she won video of the year later in the night.

而且那个MV的构思如此简洁纯粹又充满创意，毫无疑问是有史以来最伟大的音乐录影带之一。

Also, that video is like a that that it's so simple and pure ingenious that is no doubt one of the greatest videos of all time.

完全同意。

Totally.

是一镜到底拍的吗？

Was it all done in one take?

看起来确实像。

It sure looks like it.

真的很厉害。

It's really impressive.

这真是太令人印象深刻了。

It's super impressive.

我们从未想过会在Acquired节目上讨论这些，但这简直就像金融危机一样。

The things we never thought we'd be talking about on acquired, but, like, I I this is like the financial crisis.

这一刻的影响怎么强调都不为过。

You can't understate the impact of this moment.

不。

No.

而且基本上，所有未来泰勒·斯威夫特的冲突也都源于此。

And basically, all future Taylor Swift conflicts stem from this too.

比如我们会谈到斯库特的事情，而这当然是因为斯库特·布劳恩曾是坎耶的经纪人。

Like, we'll get into the Scooter stuff, and that, of course, comes from the fact that Scooter Braun was Kanye's manager.

坎耶决定再次翻旧账，这个我们稍后也会谈到。

There's Kanye deciding to drudge up history again, which again we'll get to.

但所有未来的冲突确实都源于此。

But it's it's like all of the future conflicts really do stem from this.

是啊。

Yeah.

而整件事最糟心的地方在于。

And here's kind of the sick thing about it all.

当时经历了巨大的情感动荡。

There was a tremendous amount of emotional turmoil.

没错。

Yeah.

当时确实有很多负面影响，尤其是事件刚发生后。

And there was a lot of negatives, especially immediately afterwards.

但如今两人的境遇都比这件事从未发生要好得多。

Both of them are way better off today than if this never happened.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

我认为这里还有另一个动态因素，比如这对他们各自的粉丝账号有什么好处，要知道推特那时才刚刚兴起。

I think that's the other dynamic here of, like, what what was better for both of their follower accounts on you know, Twitter's just starting to come up at this point in time.

这大概和推特上著名的百万粉丝争夺战是同一时期吧？

This is probably right around the same time as the famous race to a million followers, right, on Twitter.

没错。

Yep.

是的。

Yep.

所以这件事之后第二年，泰勒的第三张专辑《Speak Now》就发行了。

So after this, the following year, Speak Now comes out, Taylor's third album.

这一点也是我做调研时才真正意识到的。

And, once again, something I didn't really realize until the research.

为什么专辑要叫《Speak Now》呢？

Why is it called Speak Now?

它讲的是什么样的故事？

What is what is it about?

《Speak Now》里所有的歌都是泰勒自己创作的。

Taylor wrote all of the songs on Speak Now.

她想证明的是，你们不能对我喜欢的东西指指点点——哦，虽然词曲创作署名是我，但实际上都是Liz或者别人在写。

She wanted to prove, you can't say anything about me that I like, oh, I get the song writing credits, but really Liz is writing everything or somebody else is writing everything.

比如，不。

Like, no.

对。

Right.

本质上就是彻底展现真实的自己，表明这一切100%都是我。

It's to basically strip herself down and show and say, like, this is all 100% me.

所以如果你喜欢这些作品，就是喜欢真实的我。

So if you like this, you like me.

没错。

Yep.

没有任何附加条件。

There is no caveating.

根本不可能说什么'但是她怎样怎样'的借口。

There's no possible way to say, but she blah blah blah.

而且我觉得人们喜欢这张专辑是因为全部17首歌——14首正专加3首附赠曲——全都登上了公告牌百强单曲榜。

And, I think people liked it because all 17 of the tracks, 14 on the main album, and three bonus tracks, all chart on the Billboard Hot 100.

整张专辑所有歌曲同时进入前100名，占比高达1.11%。

All of them on the album with at 1.11 of the tracks concurrently on the top 100.

哇。

Wow.

因此它成为史上唯一拥有17首百强单曲的专辑，其中4首进入了前十名。

So it becomes the only album in history to have 17 Hot 100 hits, four of which were in the top 10.

这难道不疯狂吗？

Isn't that crazy?

美国最受欢迎的歌曲中有17%来自你的新专辑，而且这些歌占了你新专辑的100%。

17% of the most popular songs in America are from your new album and represent 100% of your new album.

说到写歌，就在《Speak Now》发行后不久，泰勒开始了一段新恋情。

Now speaking of songwriting, right after Speak Now comes out, Taylor starts a new relationship.

我原本希望

My hope was

这期节目不讨论泰勒的恋情，但我觉得这几乎不可能。

to have no Taylor relationship conversation on this episode, but I think it's kind of impossible.

我知道。

I know.

我知道。

I know.

我也不想提，但这次不得不谈。

I didn't want to, but we gotta do this one.