优步首席执行官达拉·科斯罗萨西

太不可思议了。

Incredible.

当你身处Expedia一方，而后又在Uber获得新的开始，你是如何将这些经验教训带入新环境的？

When you're on the Expedia side of things, and then you get a fresh start at Uber, how do you take those lessons with you?

你学到了什么？

And what did you learn?

天啊，我学到了太多。

God, I learned so much.

Booking.com是一台高效执行的机器，他们的专注点——当我们谈到专注时——就是酒店、酒店、还是酒店。

Booking was an execution machine and their focus, when we talked about focus was hotels, hotels, hotels.

而Expedia则更偏向于从机票业务起步，

And Expedia was much more, it started with air,

对吧？

right?

某种程度上酒店业务是次要的。

And hotels was to some extent secondary.

所以我认为其中一个经验教训就是，嘿，要瞄准更大的市场。

And so I think one of the lessons is like, hey, go after the larger market.

如果你是做平台业务的，就要追求供应端的碎片化，想想酒店行业，全球的酒店数量远比航空公司多得多。

And if you're a marketplace business, go after fragmentation of supply, which is if you think about hotels, there's so many more hotels in the world than there are airlines.

因此我认为他们完全聚焦在正确的领域，先建立了全球业务，简直就是一台高效的执行机器。

So I think they focused completely in the right area and built a global business first, and just were an absolute execution machine.

另一个方面是，Expedia可能更注重构建需求端，包括消费者需求、品牌建设等等。

The other area was that Expedia was probably more focused on building demand, of consumer demand, brand, etcetera.

Booking则更侧重供应端驱动。

Booking was more supply led.

尤其是在美国，根本没人了解Booking。

And Especially in The States, nobody knew what booking Totally.

但对他们来说，重点在于积累酒店资源。

But it's like for for them, it was about building up the hotel supply.

随着酒店资源的积累，每家酒店都成为可以通过谷歌或元搜索进行营销的数据点。

And as you built up the hotel supply, every hotel became another piece of data that you could market through Google or meta search.

如果一个市场原本有100家酒店，你将其扩展到200家，这个市场的转化率也会提升。

And if you have a 100 hotels in a market and you expand that to 200 hotels in a market, that market is also going to convert better.

这样你不仅开拓了新的需求细分市场，而且当有人搜索尼斯酒店时，尼斯的产品会变得更具竞争力，转化率更高。

So not only do you build kind of a new segment of demand, but then if there's a search for you know hotel and Nice, Nice becomes a better product and convert more.

如果转化率提高，你就能从谷歌等渠道获得更多流量。

If it can convert more, you can get more traffic from Google, etcetera.

他们把这种优化游戏玩得无人能及。

They play that optimization game like no one else.

对我而言，加入优步后最大的启示是：优步是一个供需平台业务，供应端极其分散，对吧？

And for me, the biggest lesson as I came to Uber was Uber's a marketplace business, very, very fragmented supply base, right?

平台上有560万司机和配送员在通过我们赚钱。

It's 5,600,000 drivers and couriers who are earning on our platform.

还有几百万家餐厅？

And a few million restaurants?

对，接近百万家餐厅。

Yeah, close to million restaurants.

对我们而言，增长同样由供给驱动。

And for us, our growth is also supply led.

因此，如果你考虑疫情后的情况，我认为我们整体表现优异并在疫情后获得大量市场份额的原因之一，正是因为我们真正专注于让司机回归平台、完善服务等。

So if you think about post pandemic and one of the reasons why I think generally we're doing really well and gained a bunch of category share versus lift coming out of the pandemic was because we really focused on bringing those drivers back to the platform, building our service, etcetera.

这是一种以供给为主导的业务构建方式，这绝对是我从booking.com汲取的经验。

And it was a supply led way of building the business, which definitely was a learning that I took from booking.com.

通过Booking，你可以先为某个地理区域的酒店打造市场，然后借此建立垂直领域。

With Booking, they you can build a market, of a say geography for hotels and then use that to build a vertical.

某种程度上，Uber也能做到这点，而你的双边业务竞争对手却无法效仿。

You can do the same thing at Uber in a way that your competitors on both sides of the business can't.

对吧？

Right?

因为你们可以进行交叉营销

Because you can cross market

正是如此。

Exactly.

打车和送餐

Rides and eats.

没错

Exactly.

尤其在美国，送餐骑手和载客司机之间的角色转换更为普遍

And especially in The US, there's a much more crossover between couriers who deliver food and then drivers who drive people.

这种交叉性更强，我们实际上可以把送餐业务当作一种招聘工具

There's a much larger crossover and we can actually use Eats almost as a recruitment tool.

在那个时刻，当有人说'我对赚钱感兴趣'时，你能让这个人越快开始赚钱，转化率就越高

In that moment when someone says I am interested in earning money, you know, gig money, on demand, etcetera, with all the flexibility, freedom, etcetera, the faster you can get that person earning money, the higher the conversion rate.

由于送餐业务的存在，你不需要进行车辆检查，要知道载客服务需要很多额外步骤，比如背景调查等

And because of Eats, you don't need to get your car inspected, know, there's a lot of steps, additional steps, background check, etcetera, that's required for driving.

这些步骤对于送餐服务来说并非必须完成

Those steps don't necessarily need to be completed to deliver food.

你可以让人们先进入送餐生态系统

You can get people into, the food ecosystem.

他们可以在优步平台上开始赚钱，然后你可以向他们推销更多机会，比如载客、购物等。

They can start earning on the Uber platform and then you can upsell them into additional opportunities, driving people, shopping, etcetera.

在建立供应方面，这是我们拥有的结构性招聘优势。

It's a structural recruitment advantage we have in terms of building up supply.

随着供应的增加，市场的流动性会变得更好，溢价下降，定价更优，预计到达时间更准，你的定价能力更强，需求也会在一定程度上出现。

And as you build up the supply, the liquidity in the marketplace gets better, surge comes down, pricing gets better, ETA gets better, your ability to price gets better, and the demand shows up to some extent.

所以你刚才说的这一切，一直都是这样的故事。

So everything you just said, that's always been the story.

不过看起来在过去几年里，尤其是相对于竞争对手而言，这已经变得更加现实了。

It seems like in the past few years though, especially relative to your competitors, it's actually become more of a reality.

我很好奇，也许你提到过Booking是执行机器。

And I'm curious maybe you talked about booking being execution machines.

那么，自疫情以来，Uber的执行机器是什么样子的，可能让这变得更加现实？

Like, what what does the Uber execution machine look like since the pandemic to maybe make that more of a reality?

嗯，我认为投入和产出之间总是存在延迟，对吧？

Well, think that there's always a delay between inputs and outputs, right?

也就是说，你可以开始从构建系统等方面着手改变输入条件。

Which is you you can start changing the inputs in terms of how you build a system, etcetera.

需要一段时间后，输出效果才会显现出来。

It takes a while for the outputs to become emergent.

疫情后我们确实迈出了一大步，在达到一定规模后整合了所有团队——技术团队、市场团队、单一司机团队等。

We did take a big step post pandemic once got to size to merge all the teams together, the technical teams together, the marketplace teams together, single earner team, etcetera.

当Eats业务规模较小时，它需要自己的专属团队，因为如果让一个团队同时负责打车和Eats业务，所有注意力都会集中在打车业务上。

When EATs was small, it needed its own dedicated teams because if you had one team doing rides in EATs, like all the attention would go to rides.

合并团队后，就能让一个技术团队真正专注于需求侧。

Once we combined the teams that allowed, you know, one technical team to really focus on the demand side.

Eats业务是受益方，打车业务拥有大部分用户群体，我们通常会将更多用户从打车业务引导至Eats。

Eats is the recipient, you know, so the rides business has most of the audience and generally we move more people from rides to Eats.

因此这几乎是为Eats业务提供的免费获客工具。

So it's a it's a almost free customer acquisition tool for Eats.

这是你们Eats业务最大的获客渠道，对吧？

It's your largest customer acquisition channel for Eats, right?

没错，我们从Arise获得的新客户比从谷歌、Meta、Instagram所有这些其他渠道加起来还要多。

Yeah, we we get more new customers from Arise than we do from Google, Meta, Instagram, all of these other channels combined.

能拥有自己的

It's pretty nice to own your

拥有它真是太棒了。

own It's awesome.

是啊。

Yeah.

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

成本只有四分之一。

At a quarter of the cost.

所以这就像一个专有渠道，而且更便宜，然后我

So it's like, a proprietary channel and it's cheaper and then I'm

惊讶你们是否会对内部收费

surprised Do by you like charge internally for

完全正确。

Totally.

哦，是的，完全正确。

Oh yeah, totally.

完全正确。

Totally.

嗯，甚至广告业务也是，对吧？

Well, an even advertising business, right?

所以，它和其他广告单元一样。

So, it's ad unit like any other.

正是如此。

Exactly.

正是如此。

Exactly.

所以，我们将要

So, and We're gonna

我们得开始互相收取广告位费用了。

have to start charging each other for plugs Okay.

继续

On

我可以稍微介绍一下内部定价机制。

can tell you a little bit about internal pricing mechanisms.

但你知道的，所有这些听起来都很棒。

But but you know, all of it sounds great.

但事实是，你在Rides上为Eats做的每个像素都在从Rides应用中拿走一些东西。

But the fact is that whatever pixel that you put on the Rides app to promote Eats is taking something away from the Rides app.

对吧？

Right?

所以需要进行大量实验，哪些是合适的展示位置？

So there's a bunch of experimentation that had to be done, which is what are the right surfaces?

哪些是合适的信息？

What are the right messages?

你们如何定位它？

How do you target it?

你们多久定位一次？

How often do you target it?

等等。

Etcetera.

因此需要构建一系列机制来成功实现这些，让Eats获得的收益远大于Rides受到的损害，同时不影响Rides的用户体验。

So there's a bunch of machinery that you have to build to do this stuff successfully and for the benefit that Eats gets to be significantly larger than the detriment that rides gets and to not get in the way of the rides experience.

要知道，你们肯定不想搞砸那个体验。

Know, like you don't want to screw up that experience.

所以关于为什么现在才做这件事——首先理论上看起来很棒，但要构建真正有效实施的机制需要时间。

So to the question of like why is it happening now is one, it looks great on paper, but then to build the machinery to actually do it effectively takes time.

而且，Eats每年通过这个新获客渠道获得的新客户占整体业务比例不到10%，因为这是个高度复购的业务。

And then, you know, if Eats has this new customer acquisition, source every year new customers for Eats account for less than 10% of the business of the overall business because it's a big repeat business.

所以第一年时，这确实不错吧？

So in year one, hey, is it nice?

是的，这很好。

Yeah, it's nice.

但它并没有真正展示给外部投资者看。

But it doesn't really show up to investors, external investors.

但正如那句老话所说，复利是世界第七大奇迹或第八大奇迹。现在发生的情况就是复利效应在起作用，对吧？

But then once, you know, it's the saying compounding is the seventh wonder of the world or the eighth wonder of the world, What's happening now is the compounding is happening, right?

所以这套机制我们已经运行了大约三年。

So we've had like three years of the machinery working.

第一年可能不明显，第二年可能也不明显，但到了第三、第四年，我们所做的本质上就是让利润率比竞争对手增长得更快，因为我们拥有大量专有流量。

So one year may not be noticeable, two years may not be noticeable, but three, four years, what we're doing is essentially our margins are growing faster than our competition because we have a bunch of proprietary traffic that's coming over.

而在乘车业务方面，也有来自外卖业务的专有供给在持续叠加，这又是复利效应。

And then on the ride side, there's proprietary supply coming over from Eats, again, compounding.

对你们来说，供给获取成本仍然高于需求获取成本吗？

Is it still that, supply acquisition cost is bigger than demand acquisition cost for you guys?

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yes.

我的意思是，我们目前是一家以供应为主导的企业。

I mean it it is we are a supply led business at this point.

大概两年前，我们本可以在平台上增加25%的司机和配送员。

Probably two years ago we could have added, 25% more drivers and couriers into the platform.

他们都会立刻变得超级忙碌。

They would all be like super busy instantly.

目前我们的供应增长速度普遍快于需求，因为它正在追赶需求。

Right now our supply generally is growing faster than demand because it's catching up to demand.

平台上的平均司机工作时间更长，因为体验更好，收入水平相当不错。

And the average driver who's on the platform is working more because experience is better, earnings levels are, are, are pretty, are really good.

所以目前供应可能仍落后需求约5%左右。

So at this point probably supply is still trailing demand by 5% or so.

但市场现在正趋于平衡状态。

But the marketplace is now getting to a point where it's balanced.

但真正开始发挥作用的是这种复合效应。

But it's that compounding that really starts working.

我最近翻阅了最新的财报，其中有一张图表显示，过去五年左右的时间里，司机每小时的平均收入有所增加。

I was reading through the most recent earnings, and you have a chart where on average over the last five years or so, drivers make more money per hour.

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果我们进入某种经济环境，导致大量人失业并想成为优步司机，那会使整个平台的平均收入骤降，因为有大量新司机涌入。

If we entered some economic environment where a whole bunch of people were out of work and they wanted to become Uber drivers, but that would make it so that the average earnings across the whole platform would plunge because you have a whole ton of new drivers coming on.

你们是否会设置门槛，比如‘嘿，我们想确保不会过度涌入市场供应端’？

Would you guys sort of gate it and be like, hey, we wanna like make sure that we don't sort of flood the the supply side of the marketplace?

不会。

No.

因为我们的核心理念之一就是这是一个开放平台，只要你的背景审查通过等条件符合，就可以获得收入机会。

Because one of our core philosophies is this is an open platform and if your background check comes in okay, etcetera, then you can have access to earnings opportunities.

这是我们的核心理念。

That's a core belief for us.

经济规律会自行调节，对吧？

The economics take care of themselves, right?

当你观察中期和长期周期时，如果平台上的收入下降，那么它对司机的吸引力就会降低，他们会转而从事其他工作。

When you look at mid cycle, long cycle, if earnings come down on the platform, then it becomes a less attractive platform to drivers and they will do something else.

我们的市场存在这种反周期特性——在经济形势非常好的时期，我们反而更难招募司机。

There is this counter cyclicality about our marketplace, which is during really good times, it becomes harder for us to recruit drivers.

因此供应成本会上升。

So the cost of supply goes up.

所以当收入和总预订量增长、订单量强劲时，我们的供应基础反而变得更昂贵。

So while revenue and gross bookings are growing and unit volumes are strong, our supply base becomes more expensive.

在经济疲软时期，会有更多司机加入平台，预计到达时间缩短，价格下降，服务变得更便宜。

During softer economic times, get more drivers coming into the platform, ETAs come down, prices come down, the price becomes cheaper.

因此实际上我们的订单量会加速增长。

So actually our unit volumes accelerate.

如果你看我们第一季度的订单量，同比增长24%，而第四季度是19%。

So if you look like our Q1 unit volumes, they grew 24% versus 19% in Q4.

所以我们加速了出行增长，这种规模的企业很少见到这种增速。

So we accelerated, you know, trip growth, which is not something that you see at our scale.

但这就是部分机制发挥作用的结果。

But it's some of this stuff working out.

没错。

Right.

所以这有点像市场理论中的‘无形之手’，在某种程度上为你们自动调节。

So it's sort of the invisible hand of the market theory that sort of self regulates this for you.

是的。

Yeah.

这不是理论。

It's not a theory.

这是事实。

It happens.

是啊。

Yeah.

大概是这样吧。

Guess like yeah.

这是个非常酷的实验。

It's it's this very cool experiment.

没错。

Yeah.

经济学家喜欢从理论上讨论问题，而你实际上拥有人类历史上最大的数据集之一，记录着人们提供劳动和其他人消费服务的情况。

Economists like to talk about things in theory, you actually have one of the largest datasets in human history of, you know, people doing work and other people consuming services.

对。

Yeah.

如果你问我们优步的首席经济学家，他会说我们实际上并不控制面向消费者的定价。

If you if you ask our top economist at Uber, he would say that we actually don't control the price to the consumer.

这实际上是市场根据劳动力供应和交通需求所设定的实时劳务价格。

That it's actually the spot price for this kind of labor the marketplace sets based on the supply of labor coming in and the demand for transportation.

所以人们会说，是优步在定价。

And so there's this, know, people say like Uber's setting prices.

他会说，我们没有定价。

He'd say, we're not setting prices.

是市场自己在定价。

The marketplace is setting its own price.

那你们具体怎么做呢？

So what do you do then?

你们总得有些可调控的手段吧。

Like you have to have some levers at your disposal.

你们现在盈利状况好多了。

You're getting a lot more profitable.

是的。

Yes.

确实，我记得20年我们做IPO专题时，优步上市前一年亏损了近30亿美元。

I mean, certainly, I think in '20 whenever we did the IPO episode, Uber had lost, like, close to $3,000,000,000 the year before going public.

在那一集中提到，这是有史以来公司上市前亏损最严重的一次。

Said in the in the episode that it was the most that a company had ever lost before going public in history.

是的。

Yes.

我不知道

I don't know

这是否属实，但当时归因于本·吉尔伯特。

if that's true, but attributed to Ben Gilbert at the time.

但现在Order

But now Order

从数量级来看，这是事实。

of magnitude, that's true.

根据你关注的盈利指标不同，你们现在要么收支平衡，要么略有盈余，而且盈利能力还在持续增强，看起来像是一个能够自我维持的企业。

Depending on what profitability metric you look at, you guys are a breakeven or slightly positive business and increasingly getting more profitable and looking like a self sustaining business.

那么，如果你不参与决定乘车价格的事务，你能做些什么呢？

So what can you do then if you aren't in the business of deciding what a ride should cost?

嗯，我认为我们从事的是规模业务，对吧？本质上我们连接了各种形式的运输方式，无论是人员还是物品，而且你知道现在越来越多的是人员和共享出租车等等。

Well, I think we're in the scale business, right, which is we essentially wire up every form of transportation of whether it's people or things and you know it's increasingly people and then shared, taxis, etcetera, right.

全球有四百五十万辆出租车。

There are four and a half million taxis in the world.

谁能想到优步会与出租车合作？但我们将连接世界上每一辆出租车，对吧？

Who would imagine that Uber will be working with taxis, but we're gonna wire up every single taxi in the world, right?

然后

And then on

路缘石、出租车和飞轮。

The curbs and the cabulaces and the flywheels.

顺便说一下，我们和他们合作，对吧？

And by the way, we work with them, right?

很多时候我们会通过他们作为中间人来连接，再次将这些出租车串联起来。

A lot of times we will connect through them as intermediaries, again, to wire up these taxis.

然后我们从食品扩展到酒类、杂货等等。

And then we've gone from food to alcohol to groceries, etcetera.

此外，我们还涉足货运业务。

And then we have a freight business as well.

所以我们连接得越多，需求就会越多。

So the more we wire up, the more Do demand you have

现在有船了？

boats now?

抱歉，你说什么？

I'm sorry?

我听说你们现在有船了。

You have boats now, I hear.

我们在米克诺斯岛有船，这很酷。

We have boats in Mykonos, which is pretty cool.

泰晤士河上也有我们的船。

We have boats on the Thames too.

简单来说，只要能移动并载人或物，我们就会将其接入网络，实现按需服务。

It's just like if it moves and it carries people and things, we're going to wire it up and make it available on demand.

这通常会带来对运输等的需求。

That usually brings in the demand for transportation, etcetera.

然后就像数学一样。

And then it's like math.

你必须以越来越高效的方式去做。

You have to do it in a more and more efficient way.

我认为我们的一个秘密武器是拥有一支庞大且能力出众的市场团队。

I think one of the secret sauces that we have is we have a very large and capable marketplace team.

这些机器学习工程师正在构建匹配、定价及所有连接性的系统。

These are ML engineers who are building out the systems that match, price, all of this connectivity.

是的。

Yeah.

当你在一个季度处理20亿笔交易的生态系统上工作时，我们拥有的数据集，以及我们能在最优匹配和定价等方面进行的实验。

And when you're, you know, working over, an ecosystem of 2,000,000,000 transactions a quarter, the datasets that we have, the experimentation that we can do in terms of what's the most optimal match, how do you price, etcetera.

这只是一个比任何人都大的数据库。

It's just a bigger database than anyone else.

虽然我无法透露我们竞争对手的匹配和定价策略，但每年我们的匹配和定价效率大约会提升5%。

So every year when I can't speak to how our competitors are matching and pricing, but every year matching and pricing probably improves by 5% a year.

因此在其他条件不变的情况下，市场平台的吞吐量每年能提升约5%。

So you improve your, the marketplace throughput by about 5%, everything else being the same.

这就像是免费的增长。

And that's like free growth.

当这个增幅叠加在约1200-1300亿美元的年化规模基础上时，效益就非常可观了。

And when it's on top of you know call it $120 $130,000,000,000 run rate it gets big.

这就像复利效应——每年这套机制都会变得更高效。

Again it's compounding like every year this machinery gets better.

那么为了确认我的理解是否正确——因为你和任何人交谈时，他们都会说'我该问Dara什么问题呢？'

So then just to make sure I'm understanding right, the reason why because you talk to anybody and and they're like you're like, oh, what should I ask Dara?

然后大家都会说：'问问他为什么现在优步打车比以前贵了'

And they're like, ask them why Ubers are more expensive than they used to be.

而我的回答是：'因为现在这是个能赚钱的好生意了'

And I'm like, because it's a good business now.

但实际上，我认为这听起来并不像是真正正确的答案。

But actually, I don't think it sounds like that's not actually the right answer.

车费随时间上涨的原因，一是通货膨胀，二是乘车需求超过了供应能力。

That the reason rides have gotten more expensive over time is a, inflation, but b, just that there is more demand for those rides than there is supply to serve them.

正确。

Correct.

劳动力成本上升了。

The cost of labor has gone up.

对吧？

Right?

我是说，现在任何蓝领工作的薪酬都涨了，大家都在讨论这个，不是吗？

I mean, how much you have to pay for any kind of blue collar job, you know, everybody's talking about it, right?

很多零售商都面临招工难的问题，餐馆经营者等等都是如此。

The bunch of retailers were having trouble hiring enough people, restaurateurs, etcetera.

因此将司机引入优步生态系统确实变得成本更高了。

And then it did become more expensive to bring drivers into the Uber ecosystem.

收入预期已经提高了。

Earnings expectations have gone up.

顺便说一句，我认为这是件好事，对吧？

And by the way, I think that's a healthy thing, right?

如果你退一步看，蓝领工作的薪资增长一直跟不上科技工作者或资本等的收入水平。

It's if you kind of step back, you know, the increase in salary and wages for blue collar jobs hasn't kept up with the salary of like tech workers or, you know, capital, etcetera.

所以我认为这种追赶是非常健康的。

So I think the catch up is a really healthy catch up.

这就是为什么现在优步更贵的原因。

That is the reason why Ubers are more expensive now.

在当前环境下，由于供应真正进入市场，我们增加供应的速度超过了需求，价格实际上比去年同期下降了。

Now in this environment where we are adding supply faster than demand because the supply is really coming into the marketplace, prices in Uber now year on year are down.

是啊。

So Yeah.

今天早上旧金山的价格是几个月来最低的。

San Francisco this morning was the cheapest it's been in months.

酷。

Cool.

嗯，具体来说不是谢谢你。

Well, and specifically not thank you.

要感谢那只看不见的手

Thank the invisible hand at

在发挥作用。

work.

谢谢你，市场先生。

Thank you, mister Market.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

优步相对于Expedia的复杂性是否符合你最初的预期？

How has the complexity of Uber relative to Expedia matched up with your expectations coming in?

所以从需要考虑所有利益相关者的角度来看，这里存在复杂性。

So there's complexity in terms of all of the stakeholders that you have to think about.

这就像是国际象棋与四维象棋的区别。

And that's like, it's a difference between chess and like four dimensional chess.

就像Expedia旅行社那样。

It is like Expedia travel agency.

你正在将需求引入你的供应基地，诸如此类。

You're bringing demand to your supply base, etcetera.

然后你还得考虑Uber所在的旅行生态系统。

And then you have to think about the travel ecosystem with Uber.

Uber对全球城市而言是一项极其重要的服务。

Uber is like a incredibly important service to the cities of the world.

还有Expedia，你们当时并没有提供这项服务。

And also Expedia, you weren't providing the service.

是的。

Yes.

你们是

You were

我们代表需求方

a We we were demand

一个市场平台层

a marketplace layer.

你们并不运营飞机

You're not operating the airplanes.

没错

Exactly.

你们也不负责布置酒店房间

You're not, you know, making up the hotel rooms.

正是如此

Exactly.

要知道，实际提供服务的是司机们，对吧？

You know, the drivers are providing the service, right?

但我们对端到端的流程负有更大责任。

But it's we're much more responsible end to end.

但你要知道，你要对你的客户负责。

But, you know, you're responsible for your customers.

我们对司机和快递员群体负有非常非常重要的责任。

We have a very, very important responsibility to driver and courier community.

这超过500万人正在通过优步获得收入或赚取某种副业收入。

These over 5,000,000 people who are making an earning or making kind of a side earnings on Uber.

从监管机构和政府等角度来看，责任范围要大得多。

And then the responsibility in terms of like regulators and governments, etcetera, that consideration set is, is just, it's so much bigger.

因此从这个角度看，虽然艰难，但在某些方面也真的很有趣且令人满足。

So from that standpoint, it's tough, but also really interesting and satisfying in some ways.

你当时准备好了吗？

Were you ready for it?

我当时准备好了吗？

Was I ready for it?

是的。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

我完全没想到。

I had no idea.

这是不是那种，如果你早知道就不会去做，但现在你已经做了，创造了这么多价值，感觉很棒？

Is this one of those, like, if you knew you wouldn't have done it, but now you've done it and so all this value has been created and like great?

我很高兴我这么做了。

I'm so glad I did it.

我有个朋友当时说，嘿。

It it was a a friend of mine was like, hey.

你玩得开心吗？

Are you having fun?

我说，不开心。

I'm like, no.

我玩得不开心。

I'm not having fun.

就是，超爱这种感觉。

Like, love it.

你知道，这份工作太难了，说不上有趣，但它真的很酷。

You know, like, the job is too hard to like it's not fun, but it's so cool.

这是个非常有意思的领域。

It's such an interesting space.

你真的能感受到自己在产生影响。

You really feel like you're having impact.

优步的每个人，我们常说你来优步不是为了轻松。

Everyone at Uber, like we always talk like you don't come to Uber for easy.

你不是为了一份轻松的工作而来这里的。

Like you don't come here for an easy job.

这很复杂。

It's complicated.

这很硬核。

It's hardcore.

人们拼命工作，但就是热爱这种状态。

People work their asses off, but like you love it.

而且并不有趣。

And it's not fun.

虽然不有趣，但人们就是热爱待在这家公司。

Like it ain't fun, but people love being at the company.

这是我不曾了解的。

That's something I didn't know.

还有市场动态的实时性，以及我们如何平衡市场与定价等等，都是独一无二的。

And then and then the the dynamic real time nature of the marketplace and how we balance the marketplace and the pricing, etcetera, is unique.

对吧？

Right?

现在是周四晚上。

It's Thursday night.

泰勒·斯威夫特演唱会正在进行，全员戒备。

There's a Taylor Swift concert, all hands on deck.

我们必须解决那些运营性质的问题，但它的动态性和速度之快令人惊叹。

We gotta figure things out of that operational nature, but how dynamic and fast it is.

Uber总部会提前为泰勒演唱会做预案吗？

Does, Uber HQ plan for Taylor concerts ahead of time as they're happening?

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，优步总部不这样做，但当地有运营团队。

I mean, Uber HQ doesn't, but there are ops teams on the ground.

是的。

Yes.

而且，你知道，他们才是真正的英雄。

And, you know, they're they're the heroes.

就像他们一个城市一个城市地扎根当地，拼命工作，可以说他们就是橡胶接触路面的地方——用个交通方面的比喻来说。

Like, they're on the ground city by city, work their ass off, and and they they are they are kinda where the rubber meets the road, so to speak, to use a to use a transportation metaphor.

所以大卫提出了这个有趣的问题，我想深入探讨一下，你们准备好了吗？

So David asked this interesting question that I wanna dig a little bit deeper on, the were you ready for it?

当这份工作以非常引人注目的方式登上全国新闻时，你们做了哪些尽职调查来评估这个机会？

What kind of diligence did you get to do on the opportunity when this job came on the market in the national news in a very prominent way?

在很短的时间内

In a very short time

我在

where I

我们会讨论那个问题。

would We'll cover that.

首先，你是什么时候第一次被联系这件事的？

First, when did you first get contacted about it?

比如，你是怎么进入优步的轨道的？

Like, how did you how did you enter the Uber orbit?

我当时和所有人一样正在浏览新闻。

So I was reading around the news just like everyone else was.

对吧？

Right?

当时到处都是关于它的消息，就是

It was just all over the place and it was it

是梅格·惠特曼。

was Meg Whitman.

疯狂。

Crazy.

杰夫·ML。

Jeff ML.

那是公开的，对。

It was a public Yeah.

持续发酵并导致了后续事件。

Going on and what led to it.

你知道的，特拉维斯和Benchmark之间的那场争斗等等。

You know, the the battle between Travis and Benchmark and all that stuff.

作为一个旁观者，那真是令人着迷。

It was it was fascinating as an observer.

我从未、从未、从未想过自己会参与其中。

I never ever ever imagined that I would then play a part.

然后有个猎头打电话给我谈这个职位。

And a headhunter called me about this role.

所以不是董事会直接联系，而是猎头？

So not a board member directly, a headhunter?

猎头。

Headhunter.

猎头。

Headhunter.

哇。

Woah.

猎头给我打了电话。

Headhunter called me.

这是一个结构化的流程。

It was a structure process.

我心想，不可能吧。

I'm like, no way.

就像，不。

Like, no.

谢谢。

Thank you.

再见。

Goodbye.

在西雅图很开心。

Happy in Seattle.

是啊。

Yeah.

十三年了。

Thirteen years.

我在温比街有了自己的住处。

I got my place on Wimpy.

是啊。

Yeah.

我喜欢为巴里工作。

I love working for Barry.

就像，我当时表现得很好。

Like, was I I was good.

这很有趣。

This is fun.

没错。

Yeah.

然后然后我们确实如此。

And then and then we Exactly.

那很有趣。

It was fun.

当时我在太阳谷会议，就是艾伦公司的太阳谷会议上，正和丹尼尔·莱克一起喝酒。

And then I I was at the Sun Valley conference, the Allen and Company Sun Valley conference, and, having drinks with Daniel Leck.

他就问我，'达拉，你知道猎头打电话来谈优步工作的事吗？'

And he's like, Dara, you know, did you get the call from a headhunter about the Uber job?

他说'我觉得你非常适合这个职位'。

I think you'd be perfect for the job.

我当时根本不知道猎头为什么打电话来。

And I didn't know what the headhunter why the headhunter called.

结果就是丹尼尔牵的线。

Turned Daniel.

我当时就想'老兄，我怎么可能去做那种事？'

I'm like, dude, why would I ever do that?

我挺开心的啊。

Like, I'm happy.

我干嘛要跳进那个烂摊子？

Like, why why would I ever jump into that mess?

所以是丹尼尔把你的号码给了猎头。

So Daniel gave the headhunter your number.

是的。

Yes.

我当时就想，绝对不行。

And I'm like, no way.

绝对行。

Way.

他用那双锐利的斯堪的纳维亚式眼睛盯着我看。

And he looks he looks at me like with those, like, piercing Scandinavian eyes.

他说，达拉，人生什么时候是为了享乐了？

He's like, Dara, since when is life about having fun?

人生的意义在于产生影响。

It's about having impact.

这很重要。

This is important.

比如，你能做到的。

Like, you can do this.

当时我喝了几杯，酒过三巡，我们玩得很开心。

And I'd had a couple of drinks and the alcohol was flowing and we were having fun.

我妻子也说，是啊。

And my wife says, like, yeah.

你能做到的。

You can do this.

我就想，是啊，我能行。

I'm like, yeah, I could do this.

于是第二天我回电给猎头说：我们谈谈吧。

So, the next day I called the headhunter back and I said, let's talk.

下一步是我要见一位董事会成员，我们共进晚餐，他很有魅力，算是正式启动了招聘流程。

And the next step was for me to meet a board member and we had dinner and he was very charming And he kinda started the the recruitment.

感觉挺酷的。

It was pretty cool.

从那时到你接受这份工作之间隔了多久？

And how long between then and when you accepted the job?

天啊。

God.

我...我想大概有两个月吧。

I I think it was about two months.

是在夏天的时候。

It was over the summer.

哇。

Wow.

你有没有

Did you

保密？

keep it secret?

没人知道。

Nobody knew.

我告诉他们，我说，听着，提前声明，我有一份工作而且是一份很棒的工作。

I told them, I I said, listen, upfront, I have a job and it's a great job.

所以一旦我的名字出现在新闻里，我立马就走人。

So the nanosecond that my name shows up in the news, I'm out of here.

所以我只是想让你知道，一旦消息见报，我立刻就会离开。

So I just want you to know, like, the nanosecond it shows up in the news, I'm out of here.

但我必须现实地考虑它可能会被媒体报道。

But I had to be realistic that it could show up in the news.

令人惊讶的是居然没有曝光。

It's amazing that that it didn't.

所以实际上，那时候我给巴里打了电话，因为我不能让巴里或我自己陷入那种境地。

So actually, at that point, I called up Barry because I couldn't put Barry in a situation or myself in a situation.

我和他共事十三年了，在国际电工委员会可能都有二十年了。

Like, I've worked with him thirteen years, probably twenty years in IEC.

甚至更早以前作为银行家时，我们之间就建立了非凡的关系。

And then even before as a banker, like, he and I have an incredible relation.

我欠他太多太多了。

I owe, like, so much to him.

我不能冒险让他看到这个，你知道的，那后果不堪设想。

I couldn't take the risk of his seeing it And, in the you know, the consequences of that.

还有...还有信任的丧失。

And and and the and the loss of trust.

所以我给他打了电话。

So I called him up.

我说，巴里，直接打电话给我谈优步的事吧。

I said, Barry, head on and call me about Uber.

我要和他们谈谈。

I'm going to talk to them.

他却说，你他妈疯了吧。

And he's like, you're effing crazy.

然后就把电话挂了。

Hung up on me.

我告诉他，天啊，我就要被开除了。

I told him, like, oh my god, I'm going to get fired.

然后什么反应都没有。

And nothing.

死一般的沉默。

Dead silence.

你不会被开除的，因为巴里能做什么呢？

Weren't gonna get fired because what was Barry gonna do?

难道他要亲自接任CEO吗？

Like step in and be CEO himself?

他不会的。也许...他可能会。

He wasn't gonna He's Maybe he would.

也许他真会那么做。

Maybe he would.

我...我也不知道。

I I didn't know.

我们共事很长时间了。

We we worked together for a long time.

第二天给他打电话。

Call him the next day.

他说，作为Expedia的董事长，这确实是个错误，但作为朋友，我理解你为什么感兴趣。

He said, speaking as the chairman of Expedia, it would be a real mistake, but speaking as a friend, I understand why you're interested.

我也会感兴趣的。

I would be too.

我能帮上什么忙？

How can I help?

这就是他为人处世的写照。

And that's the definition of who he is.

是啊。

Yeah.

你知道，因为我们没上新闻，就像我们在八卦这件事一样。

You know, because we weren't in the news, it was like we gossip about it.

就像是，你听说梅格这样那样了吗？

It's like, did you hear like Meg is this?

所以我们当时把这当趣事八卦，但实际上有段时间我需要向优步董事会做汇报。

And so it was a fun thing that we gossiped about, but he actually there was a point in time when I had to make a presentation to the Uber board.

这可是我的重要汇报。

This was, my big presentation.

而且我听说其他候选人也来参加汇报了。

And and I heard that the other candidates were coming in to present as well.

所以这是个大日子。

So this was a big day.

我告诉他，我记得是个周六或周日，我要去做汇报。

And I told him, I think it was a Saturday or Sunday that I'm coming in making presentations.

他说：把汇报内容给我看看。

He's like, show me the presentation.

不。

No.

那是PowerPoint。

It was PowerPoint.

于是我给他看了PowerPoint，他实际上还帮我修改了PPT。

So I showed him PowerPoint and he actually helped me in the PowerPoint.

他说，这个不错。

He's like, this is good.

这个很好。

This is good.

你得加上这页。

You have to add this page.

这正体现了他的为人——在那件事上他把友情置于自身商业利益之上。

So it's just it shows you the kind of person he is, which is he put friendship in that case over his own business interests.

可能可能是我太烦人了。

Maybe maybe it was sick of me.

谁知道呢。

Don't know.

但这被误判了。

But it was Miscalculated.

是啊。

Yeah.

这就向你展示了

It just shows you

那份自信。

the confidence.

是真的。

Is true.

个人的忠诚。

Personal loyalty.

没错。

Yeah.

这其中还有一层因素：如果他有机会与你合作，那么你就有可能在Expedia董事会继续留任，即使不在那个职位上，也仍是公司的朋友。

There's an element to it too where if he got to collaborate with you on it, then there was a chance you would stick around on the Expedia board and and remain a friend of the company even though you're not in the seat.

是的。

Yes.

我现在仍在董事会。

And I still am on the board.

你知道，我热爱这家公司。

It's you know, I love the company.

但作为前任CEO留在董事会感觉很怪。

But it's weird being on the board as a former CEO.

就像，这是一种奇怪的体验。

Like, it's it's a strange experience.

你有为此做什么准备吗？

Did you do anything to prepare for that?

没有。

No.

通常我的人生就是，先误打误撞进入某件事，然后再想办法解决。

Like, usually, my life, it's like stumble into something and then figure it out.

你可是个大忙人。

You're also a busy dude.

是啊。

Yeah.

但我想继续留在董事会。

But it was I wanted to stay on the board.

我想提供帮助，而且你知道，公司现在正处于自己的发展历程中。

I wanted to help, and, you know, the company's going through its own journey now.

希望它能走向辉煌。

So hopefully to greatness.

你是否考虑过...我是说，微软转型时曾因此出过名，迪士尼转型时也遇到过类似问题。

Did you consider I mean, this sort of famously was an issue in the Microsoft transition and, has been an issue in the Disney transition.

你有没有想过：也许我不进入董事会对公司更有利，这样能给新领导层足够空间？

Did you consider, Actually, maybe it would be better for the company if I didn't serve on the board just to give enough space for new leadership?

我和巴里讨论过这事，最终还是由他决定。

I talked to Barry about it, and it's ultimately up to him.

对吧？

Right?

我认为他决定希望我在那里，我也尽力提供帮助。

And I think he decided that he wanted me there, and I try to be helpful.

但我认为这完全正确，因为某种程度上，新CEO的职责就是担任CEO并做出与前任不同的决策。

But but I think it's absolutely right, which is it you know, the job of the new CEO to some extent is to be the CEO and do something different from the old CEO.

这本来就是定义所在。

Like, that's definitional.

而且

And

你对这方面略知一二。

the You know a little bit about that.

是的。

Yeah.

正是如此。

Exactly.

在董事会会议上可能会有犹豫，等等，因为老领导还在场，你懂吧？

There could be hesitancy at a board meeting, etcetera, because the old person's there, you know?

所以总的来说，我相信了巴里的判断。

And so that it was I think on a net net, I trusted Barry's judgment.

有时确实感觉怪怪的，因为我升职了，但效果还不错。

It it does feel weird sometimes because I've moved up, but it's working.

我觉得效果不错，但情况有点复杂。

I think it's working, but it's complicated.

我打赌。

I bet.

现在正是感谢我们节目的好朋友ServiceNow的好时机。

Now is a great time to thank good friend of the show, ServiceNow.

我们曾向听众讲述过ServiceNow惊人的发展历程，以及他们如何成为过去十年表现最出色的公司之一，但听众对ServiceNow具体做什么还有些疑问。

We have talked to listeners about ServiceNow's amazing origin story and how they've been one of the best performing companies the last decade, but we've gotten some questions from listeners about what ServiceNow actually does.

所以今天，我们就来回答这个问题。

So today, we are gonna answer that question.

首先，最近媒体频繁使用的一个说法是，ServiceNow被称作企业级的'AI操作系统'。

Well, to start, a phrase that has been used often here recently in the press is that ServiceNow is the, quote, unquote, AI operating system for the enterprise.

但具体来说，ServiceNow始于22年前，最初仅专注于自动化领域。

But to make that more concrete, ServiceNow started twenty two years ago focused simply on automation.

他们将实体文书工作转化为软件流程，最初是为企业内部的IT部门服务。

They turned physical paperwork into software workflows initially for the IT department within enterprises.

仅此而已。

That was it.

随着时间的推移，他们在这个平台上不断扩展，处理更强大和复杂的任务。

And over time, they built on this platform going to more powerful and complex tasks.

他们的服务范围从单一的IT部门扩展到人力资源、财务、客户服务、现场运营等多个部门。

They were expanding from serving just IT to other departments like HR, finance, customer service, field operations, and more.

在过去二十年的发展过程中，ServiceNow已经完成了连接企业各个角落所需的繁琐基础工作，实现了自动化。

And in the process over the last two decades, ServiceNow has laid all the tedious groundwork necessary to connect every corner of the enterprise and enable automation to happen.

所以当AI技术出现时，从定义上来说，AI本质上就是一种高度复杂的任务自动化。

So when AI arrived well, AI kinda just by definition is massively sophisticated task automation.

那么是谁已经搭建好了平台和企业间的连接架构来实现这种自动化呢？

And who had already built the platform and the connective tissue with enterprises to enable that automation?

正是ServiceNow。

ServiceNow.

所以回答'ServiceNow如今是做什么的'这个问题，

So to answer the question, what does ServiceNow do today?

他们声称'连接并赋能每个部门'绝非虚言。

We mean it when they say they connect and power every department.

IT和人力资源部门用它来管理全公司的人员、设备和软件许可证。

IT and HR use it to manage people, devices, software licenses across the company.

客户服务部门使用ServiceNow处理诸如检测支付失败，并内部路由到正确的团队或流程来解决问题。

Customer service uses ServiceNow for things like detecting payment failures and routing to the right team or process internally to solve it.

供应链组织则用它进行产能规划，整合其他部门的数据和计划以确保所有人信息同步。

Or the supply chain org uses it for capacity planning, integrating with data and plans from other departments to ensure that everybody's on the same page.

再也不需要在不同应用间切换、反复输入相同数据了。

No more swivel chairing between apps to enter the same data multiple times in different places.

就在最近，ServiceNow推出了AI助手，让任何岗位的员工都能快速创建AI代理来处理繁琐事务，从而解放人力专注于更高层次的工作。

And just recently, ServiceNow launched AI agents so that anyone working in any job can spin up an AI agent to handle the tedious stuff, freeing up humans for bigger picture work.

ServiceNow去年入选了《财富》杂志全球最受赞赏公司榜单和《快公司》最佳创新者工作场所，正是源于这一愿景。

ServiceNow was named to Fortune's world's most admired companies list last year and Fast Company's best workplace for innovators last year, and it's because of this vision.

若您希望在业务各个环节充分利用ServiceNow的规模与速度优势，请访问servicenow.com/acquired，只需告知是Ben和David推荐即可。

If you wanna take advantage of the scale and speed of ServiceNow in every corner of your business, go to servicenow.com/acquired and just tell them that Ben and David sent you.

感谢ServiceNow。

Thanks, ServiceNow.

好的。

Alright.

那么回到反向尽职调查的问题。

So back to the reverse diligence question.

没错。

Yes.

你了解到了优步的哪些情况？

What did you get to learn about Uber?

我是说，直接问吧，你有机会和特拉维斯谈过吗？

And, I mean, to directly ask, did you get to talk to Travis?

比如，你有没有和那些即将离职的高层领导谈过？

Like, did you get to talk to any of the sort of departing leadership?

嗯，我和特拉维斯谈过几次。

Well, I talked to Travis a couple of times.

我还和另外两位创始人瑞安和加勒特谈过。

I talked with Ryan and Garrett who were the other founders.

我还和几位其他董事会成员谈过。

I talked to a couple of other board members.

我做了财务尽职调查等等。

I did financial diligence, etcetera.

对我来说，归根结底还是看这个机会。

And, know, for me, it was ultimately about the opportunity.

这可是家非常重要的公司。

It's such an important company.

我总是告诉人们，我主要看三点，对吧？

I always tell people like, I look for three things, right?

你是否能与喜欢且能向其学习的人共事？

It's do you work with people whom you like and you can learn from?

作为个人能否产生影响？

Can you use an individual make an impact?

再者，你所在的地方或公司是否会产生影响力？

And then is the place or the company that you're at going to make an impact?

第一点我当时不确定，但作为CEO我可以组建自己的团队。

I wasn't sure number one, but I was a CEO so I could build my own team.

事实证明，那里既有留下的优秀老员工，也有我们新引进的像Tony West和Nelson Che这样的新鲜血液等等。

And as it turned out, there have been like great folks there who have stayed, who were there before me, and then new folks like Tony West and Nelson Che that we brought on, etcetera.

所以新团队是新老结合的，这很棒。

So the new team's like a combination of new and old, which is great.

而作为领导团队，我们必然能对优步产生影响。

And definitionally, as a leadership team, we can have an impact on Uber.

优步是一家在实地影响城市方面独具特色的公司。

And Uber is a company that it's unique in terms of its impact on the ground on the city.

所以各方面都符合预期，财务状况方面，它当时仍是一家非常年轻的公司。

So it all checked off and the financials, it was still a really young company.

对我来说财务状况

So the financials for me

尽管它已经成立十年了，对吧？

Even though it was ten years in, right?

是的，可能还不到十年。

Yeah, less than that probably.

嗯。

Yeah.

大概吧。

Probably.

差不多就这样吧。

It was just about Okay.

十

Ten

是的。

Yeah.

就是这样。

There you go.

你比我更清楚。

You know better than I do.

我想你当时肯定觉得，天啊，如果我们能做成这件事，这个机会简直...

I imagine you had to have been feeling like, God, if we can make this work, the opportunity here is just It's like

绝对巨大。

absolutely huge.

所有转型都很困难。

All turnarounds are hard.

科技公司的转型尤其艰难。

Tech turnarounds are especially hard.