特朗普AI演讲与行动计划，华盛顿峰会回顾，GDP数据亮眼，贸易协议签署，阿尔特曼警告隐私无保障

那是什么？

What's that?

你是在侵犯他们的版权吗？

Are you infringing on their their copyright?

这是合理使用。这是合理使用。这是新闻报道中合理使用的完美范例。

This is fair use. This is fair use. This is a perfect example of fair use for editorial.

你还侵犯了Ozempic的权益。那是Trust

You're also infringing on some Ozempic. That's Trust

听着。我确实在这里侵犯了Ozempic的权益。伙计们，我已经不用Ozempic了。现在改用肽类了，兄弟。我在执行金刚狼方案。

me. I am definitely infringing on some Ozempic here. Guys, I'm I'm past Ozempic. I'm on to peptides now, man. I'm on the Wolverine Protocol.

看看你？是啊。我开始做...我是说...我不吃...什么播客

Look at Are you? Yeah. I started doing the I mean, I I don't take What pod

能出什么问题呢？

could go wrong?

千万别听播客主的健康建议。第一条原则，要听Chamot的建议，因为他体脂率只有6%，我觉得这解释了你为什么总爱显摆私密部位。可能因为脂肪太少，不过我就点到为止。

Podcaster's advice. Please don't take a podcaster's advice on your health care. Rule number one, take Chamot's advice because he's got six percent body fat, which I think attributes to much of your pomp and circumstance around your privates. I think it has to do with the lack of fat, but I'm gonna leave it at that.

首先，是11.5%，不过你知道...就是...就像...就像我暑假前那样，之后就会涨到12%或13%

First of all, it's 11 and a half, but, you know, it it that's that's like that right that's like right before I go on summer vacation, then it then it ends up at 12 or 13.

你去吃那家...你去吃那家冰淇淋了吗？我们超爱的那家店叫什么来着？

Did you go get that did you go get that gelato? What was that place we went that we loved?

罗罗蜜。我每天都去那里。到目前为止，每天都去。

Lo Lo Mie. I've gone there every day. Every day so far.

你是做两个还是一个？老实说。两个还是一个。

Did you do two or one? Be honest. Two or one.

兄弟，我一直...我一直...我一直在做不。不。

Bro, I've had I've had I've been doing No. No.

每次。

Per sesh.

你是做两个还是一个？

Do you do two or one? Be

老实说。每次，我先从中份开始，然后我

honest. Per sesh, I start with the medium, and then I

最后吃小份的。对。就是这样。这东西太棒了。

and I finish with the small. Yeah. Exactly. You this stuff is so good.

我从未尝过这样的冰淇淋。简直不可思议。

I've never tasted any gelato like this. It's incredible.

我是说，这简直难以置信。我们必须在美国获得它的授权。这是个全方位的品牌。我们必须从他们那里获得授权。

Mean, it's just unbelievable. We have to license it for The United States. It's a pretty all in brand. We have to license it from them.

这真的太不可思议了。

It's really incredible.

但是，查马斯，或者任何想参与讨论的人，弗里德伯格、萨克斯，我们怎么看待这个问题的结局？因为这里有几起重大诉讼。它们将在未来一两年内得到解决。对于我今天展示的这些未来图景，你们怎么看？

But, Chamath, just generally speaking or anybody who wants to have at it, Friedberg, Sachs, what do we think about the endgame here? Because there's some major lawsuits here. They're gonna get settled in the next year or two. What what do we think about sort of the future I've shown here today?

我认为萨克斯刚才强调的完全正确。

I think what Saks just highlighted is exactly right.

听着。我们必须采取常识性方法，否则我们就会在AI竞赛中落后。我是说，等一下——决定AI质量的关键因素之一就是数据量。这很简单。

Look. We gotta have a common sense approach here or we're gonna lose the AI race. I mean, one of the key hold on. One of the key determinants of AI quality is the amount of data that you have. It's very simple.

对吧？有几个基本要素：能源、芯片、数据，还有算法。如果在任何一个方面落后，你就会陷入困境。没错。

Right? It's there's a few building blocks. There's energy, there's chips, and there's data, and there's algorithms. And if you lose on any one of those dimensions, then you're in trouble. Right.

所以，听着，我们不能让中国可以训练整个互联网的数据，而我们的AI模型却因为需要与每个网站单独谈判合同而束手束脚。完全同意。

So, look, you just can't have a situation where China can train on the entire internet and our AI models are hamstrung by needing to contract Totally. Negotiate contracts with every single website.

但现在的情况就像欧洲那样。

But right now It's like Europe.

埃隆拥有X，对吧？他现在拥有推特（现在的X）。萨姆·奥特曼有权在他的语料库中使用X的数据吗？

Elon owns x. Right? He owns Twitter for now x. Does Sam Altman have the right to use x in his corpus?

那些是公开可用的吗？

It's publicly available?

不，不是。不，它是

No. It's not. No. It is

非公开可用的。结束

not public available. End

重点。这不是一个公开的端点。

point. It's not a public endpoint.

老实说，不知道。有些边缘情况我不清楚答案。我们需要制定公平的

Honestly, don't know. There's I don't know the answer to that. There's some edge cases here. We're gonna have to come up with fair

关键在于是否在付费墙后面。而是这些API是否存在，以及你是否在合同上被允许使用它们

use about whether it's behind a a paywall or not. It's whether these APIs exist and whether you're you're actually contractually allowed to use them or

与否。服务条款。

not. The terms of service.

没错。服务条款。每个网站上都会公布关于内容的使用条款。

Correct. The terms of service. It's published on every website what the terms of service are with respect to the content.

我认为让人们选择退出是可以的。我们已经在Common Crawl中这样做了。你可以在网站页脚放入robots.txt来选择退出Common Crawl。Common Crawl是一个非营利组织，基本上每隔几个月就会存档整个网络。

I think it would be okay to let people opt out, you know. So we already have this with Common Crawl. You can put in the footer of the website, you put in robots. Txt and you opt out of Common Crawl. Common Crawl is like this nonprofit organization that basically archives the entire web every few months.

由Gil Elbaz资助，他以前是谷歌的。节目的忠实粉丝。参加我们的峰会。是个很棒的人。

Funded by Gil Elbaz, formerly of Yeah. Formerly of Google. Great fan of the pod. Shows up to our summit. It's a great guy.

而OpenAI最初就是建立在Common Crawl之上的，

And all of OpenAI was built off of Common Crawl originally, the

但他们非常明确地表示，你必须清除版权问题，不能直接使用OpenCrawl。

And first he but they're very clear by the way. They say you have to clear copyrights, you don't get to just use OpenCrawl.

我能大胆猜测一下吗？不知道你们今天有没有看到亚马逊与《纽约时报》2500万美元的交易？

Can I go out on a limb? Don't know if you guys saw this Amazon deal with the New York Times for $25,000,000. Did you see that today?

不，我今天没看到。请解释一下。

No. I didn't see it today. Explain it, please.

我认为《纽约时报》将其所有内容（包括《The Athletic》和其他一些内容）授权给亚马逊用于训练，每年2000万美元。抱歉，是每年2000万美元。好吧。

I think that the New York Times licensed Amazon all of their content including The Athletic and a bunch of other things for training. 20,000,000. Sorry. 20,000,000 a year. Okay.

我读到这个时，觉得这是这类交易的巅峰了。从金额上看，这类交易只会从这里开始下降。这让我开始思考，五年后专利和版权是否真的还存在，这种想法是否现实？我做了个假设：如果一台计算机研究了元素周期表，也理解了物理、生物、化学的定律，然后独立推导出某种原本受专利保护的材料，会发生什么？另外，如果两个竞争的AI从零开始发明了一种新材料，国际法庭会如何处理？

Here we I read that and I thought this is the peak of these deals. These deals will only go down in terms of dollar value from here. And it actually brought me to this point where I was thinking to myself, is it even realistic to believe that patents and copyrights actually exist in five years? And I went through this exercise of like, if a computer studies the periodic table and also understands the laws of physics, the laws of biology, the laws of chemistry, and then independently derives some material that is otherwise patented, what will happen? And then separately, if two competing AIs invent a new material from scratch, how will the international courts deal with this?

如果你把这些例子推到极限，那么认为存在可执行的版权，我认为是一个非常脆弱的假设。所以我实际上更多地在思考，我们必须花时间理解一个没有版权和专利保护的世界是什么样的，以及在这样的世界里，竞争的领域是什么？什么是商业秘密？在AI的世界里这意味着什么？我觉得这是个非常有趣的问题。

And if you take all of these examples to the limit, at the limit, the idea that there are copyrights, enforceable copyrights, I think is a very fragile assumption. So I'm actually thinking more that we have to spend some time understanding the landscape of a world that doesn't have copyrights and patent protections and instead, what is the surface area in which you compete? What is trade secret? What does that mean in a world of AI? And I think it's quite an interesting thing to think about.

专利完全是另一回事。我觉得这是个非常吸引人的话题。不过我要告诉你，我会站在相反的立场。如果我们想就此做个预测市场，我敢保证这将是这类交易的开始，而且交易金额会从这里开始上升。我来告诉你为什么。

Patents are a totally different beast. Think that's a fascinating string to pull on. I will tell you, I will take the other side of the bet. If we wanna make a poly market on this, I will guarantee that this will be the beginning of the deals and the deals will go up from here. I'll tell you why.

《纽约时报》做这笔交易的原因是为了表明OpenAI的行为已经损害了他们的业务，因为他们现在有了一个客户。这个客户是亚马逊的杰夫·贝索斯和贾西，现在他们可以证明损害了，这些损害可能会让他们获得对OpenAI的禁令，OpenAI必须从他们的爬取、他们的构建中移除这些内容，这对他们来说会非常昂贵。不是做不到，但会很昂贵。从社会角度想想，我们想要什么样的社会？是一个记者、作家、艺术家、音乐家、电影制作人、演员、播客无法谋生的社会，还是一个他们可以谋生的社会？

The reason the New York Times made that deal is to make it apparent that what OpenAI has done has damaged their business because now they have a customer. And their customer is Jeff Bezos at Amazon and and Jassy, and now they can show damages because and they now those damages could give them an injunction against OpenAI, and OpenAI has gotta take it out of their crawl, of their, you know, construct, and that's gonna be really expensive for them. It's not not doable, but it's gonna be expensive. And let's think on a societal basis of what we want as a society. Do we want a society in which journalists, writers, artists, musicians, filmmakers, actors cannot make a living, podcasters, or do we want a world in which they can?

而且我认为技术人员

And I think technologists

等等。但你假设了版权。作为技术人员，我们通常认为如果我们能爬取，那就是我们的。但作为艺术家，我要告诉你的是，如果我创造了它，那就是我的，你需要我的许可，因为那是我的艺术。我认为如果行业尊重这一点，会做得更好，因为现在《纽约时报》可以雇佣更多的事实核查员。

hold on. Mifish But you're assuming copywriting. As a technologist, we typically think if we can crawl it, it's ours. What I can tell you as an artist is if I make it, it's mine, and you need my permission because it's my art. And I think the industry will do better if they respect them because now The New York Times can hire more fact checkers.

但我能问你一个问题吗？是的。

But can I just ask you a question? Yeah.

说吧。当然。

Go ahead. Sure.

但为何你非要将两者视为不可分割的事物？我是说，为什么不能有人创作出——比如一首歌——而这首歌现在可以由多个AI模型共同生成。但如果它们创作了这首歌，即便没有版权，人们更可能希望由它们来演绎这首歌，而非某个随机AI。难道没有版权就无法谋生了吗？

But why do you have to connect the two as immutable things? Meaning, why can't somebody make something still you know, let's just say it's a song, but that song can now be made by multiple AI models. But if they make the song, there's a reasonable claim that even if they don't have the copyright, more people will want them to perform the song than some random AI. So can't you make a living without having the copyright?

这取决于艺术家的选择。有些艺术家曾因不愿让作品出现在某些媒介上而闻名。比如滚石乐队曾认为，若允许音乐用于广告就是出卖灵魂。当他们最终为Windows系统授权《Start Me Up》时，那已是重大让步——这该由艺术家自行决定。你说得有一定道理。

Which is the choice of the artist. Some artists are were very well known for not wanting their art to exist in some mediums. As a perfect example, the Rolling Stones for a time thought they would be sellouts if they had their music used in commercials. And when they did start me up with Windows, that was a really big concession from them, and that's up to the artist to make that decision. You make a a valid claim.

听着。没错，巡演能赚更多钱。但这是艺术家的选择权，不该由技术专家或内容窃夺者决定。顺便说，《纽约时报》年薪2000万美元的事实核查员，换算下来相当于1.021亿美元的高薪。

Hey. Yeah. You go on tour, you make more money. But that's the artist decision, not the technologists or the people stealing their content. And by the way, $20,000,000 a year is a $102,100,000 dollar highly paid journalist fact checkers at the New York Times.

他们会签下十份这类协议，这将开创新闻与内容创作的黄金时代，我们该为此感到欣喜。

They're gonna get 10 of those deals, And it's going to create a golden era age of journalism and content, and we should be happy about that.

对。杰森我提过这个例子——在Beast时，我们曾将内容授权给OpenAI进行视频训练。董事会反复讨论的是：我坚持最多签两年合约，因为我们完全无法预见未来会怎样。

Yeah. I told you this example, Jason, but at Beast, we did a a licensing deal of our content to allow OpenAI to learn Yeah. To run training runs on our videos. And at the board, the thing that we kept talking about was I was I was really concerned, like, let's just do a a couple year deal max. And the reason is we have no idea what this looks Yeah.

五到十年后，正如你所说，我们判断失误与正确的概率相当。这是半年前的想法，当时直觉告诉我应尽量缩短合约期限。但如今看到AI在全球格局中的重要性，以及中国的动向，我认为这些版权的价值终将归零。我现在更关注如何为企业构建真正的护城河，而非一纸可以用来起诉别人的文书。

Like in five or ten years and there's just as much chance to your point that we get it wrong as right. Now that was about six months ago and so the intuition that I had back then was maybe we should keep the deal term as short as possible. But now when I see how important AI is in the global landscape and what China is doing, I think on the margins that this idea that these copyrights will mean something, in my mind, I am underwriting the value of these things going to zero. And I'm asking myself instead for my businesses, how are we actually building a real defensible moat and not a piece of paper that we can use to sue somebody?

好吧弗里德伯格，你要做最后陈述吗？我们得进入其他话题了。

Okay. Friedberg, you want the last word here? We gotta move on to some other topics.

我只想确认大家都清楚。

I just wanna be Alright.

萨钦，你来做总结吧。

Sachin, you take the last word. Yeah.

我必须明确：没有人会丧失版权。版权是禁止他人复制你作品的权利。如果AI模型的输出复制或剽窃了你的作品，那就是违法。总统特别强调过：我们绝不允许复制或剽窃行为。

I just wanna be clear that nobody is losing their copyright. Copyright is the right not to have your work copied. And if an AI model produces outputs that copy or plagiarize your work, then that's a violation of the law. And I think the president specifically said that. We're not allowing copying or plagiarizing.

问题在于AI模型是否被允许在互联网上进行数学运算。

The question is whether AI models are allowed to do math on the internet.

模式识别。模式识别。基本上就是这样。J Cal，我觉得你把两者混淆了，我...不，不是这样的。

Pattern recognition. Pattern recognition. Basically, that's what it is. And it's and J Cal, I think you're conflating the two and I I No. No.

不想打断你。我只是理解这个区别。我认为这种观点——比如我不能去图书馆借本书，阅读后学习如何写好书的技巧——在AI语境下应该仅限于人类，这种想法是错误的。这正是AI在做的事：识别模式，然后建立预测算法，使输出内容开始符合各种变量设定。

Don't want interrupt it. Just I understand the understand the distinction. And and I think that this idea that, like, I can't, for example, go to the library, rent a book, read it, and then learn some of the good techniques on how to write a good book should be restricted to humans in this AI context. Like, this is exactly what they're doing. They're identifying patterns, and then they're building predictive algorithms that allow them to output stuff that starts to fit within different kind of, you know, variable settings.

你们觉得如果投入足够的算力，有可能在从未读过的情况下，从头写出迈克尔·克莱顿的《侏罗纪公园》吗？

Do you guys think it's possible that if you allocated enough compute at the problem, you could write Michael Crichton's Jurassic Park de novo without ever having read it?

是的。

Yeah.

我也这么想。我也是。

Me too. Me too.

我...我觉得

I I think

我不明白那意味着什么，就像

I don't know what that would mean, like

这就是我的观点。

Well, this is my point.

难道...我觉得人类需要《侏罗纪公园》这样的作品。我不知道

Don't I think I think humanity needs Jurassic Park is. I don't know

这个问题是什么意思。

what it this means issue.

我不知道说‘AI能写那个’是什么意思。就像

I don't know what it means to say can AI write that. Like

但你们还记得艾德·希兰的诉讼案吗？还记得那个案子吗？

But you guys remember the Ed Sheeran lawsuit? Do you remember that lawsuit?

我确实记得。但让我在这里强调一点，因为你说我不理解。我的职业生涯都在这个领域，我比你更了解它，我从诉讼案件和深入实践中理解它。我是从第一性原理来理解的，而你并非如此。

I I did. But let me just make one point here on this because you're you're saying I don't understand it. I spent my career in it. I understand it much better than you do, and I understand it from lawsuits and being in the weeds on it. Like, I understand it from first principles, which you do not.

我要说的是，我们这里讨论的是定义问题。是关于衍生作品的定义，输出结果很重要。如果你利用我的知识创作衍生作品，并使用了我的作品的一定比例，这就涉及到细微差别——衍生作品中使用了多少原作品内容，以及在什么背景下使用，是商业还是非商业。这显然是一个商业案例。如果OpenAI现在是非营利组织，我们的讨论会完全不同，因为那样你就不会作为版权持有者与我竞争，利用这个新媒介创作衍生作品。

And I will say this is what we're talking about here is the definition. It's the definition of a derivative work, and the output matters. So if you were to take my knowledge and then create a derivative work from it and you used a percentage of my work, and that's where this will get into the nuance, is what percentage of the original work is used in the derivative work and under what context, a commercial context or a noncommercial. This is clearly a commercial one. If it's a if OpenAI was a nonprofit right now, we'd be having a distinctly different discussion because it would there would be you wouldn't be competing with me as the copyright holder to use this new medium and create the derivative works.

而且必须要有实质性改变。如果是类似摘要笔记

And it has to change substantially. So if it's a if it's a cliff notes

当中国拥有唯一符合你严格版权定义的模型时。

When China has the only models that are able to meet your stringent definitions of copyright.

不，问题在于：我认为‘中国威胁论’是胡扯。实话实说，中国窃取知识产权不代表你们可以偷美国人的东西。

Well, no. And here's the thing. I think the China fear the China fear shit is bullshit. I'll be totally honest here. Just because China steals IP does not mean you get to steal from Americans.

在美国我们有规则。过去三十年我们与中国的主要问题不是台湾——这已被重新定义。让我说完。

In America, we have rules. And when you go to China and by the way, we've spent the last thirty years the major issue with China is not Taiwan. Has been reframing conversation. It. Let me itself.

让我说完。科技行业本身依赖政府三四十年，包括微软、谷歌，确保我们的商业机密不被窃取，知识产权不被窃取，电影不被盗版。这才是与中国之间的核心问题。不能因为中国是小偷，就意味着美国公司可以...

Let me finish. The technology industry itself has leaned on our government for thirty, forty years, including Microsoft, including Google, to make sure our trade secrets are not stolen, our IP is not stolen, our movies are not stolen. That is the key issue with China. So just because China's a thief You don't know. Does not mean American companies get to use

你看过最新一批中国开源模型或开放源代码了吗？

seen have you seen the latest batch of Chinese open source models or open They source

他们窃取一切。这是否意味着你也可以窃取Windows？可以窃取mac.com吗？

they steal everything. Does that mean you should be able to steal Windows? Should you be able to steal mac.com?

杰森，我们不是随便窃取任何东西。埃隆说得很清楚，Grok五和未来的Grok六不会使用Common Crawl。它不会使用互联网。明白吗？它将仅使用海量合成数据。

Jason, me just just steal anything. Elon has said this pretty clearly, Grok five and for sure Grok six will not use Common Crawl. It will not use the Internet. Okay? It'll just be an enormous amount of synthetic data.

回到我和弗莱伯格刚才达成的共识，如果你试图通过合成方式生成所有内容来学习，你不可避免地会创造出已经存在的东西。

And back to what Freiberg and I just agreed upon, if you synthetically go and try to generate all this content to learn across, you're invariably going to produce something that's already been created.

就像科幻小说级别的世界。

So like some sci fi level world.

我理解。但这正是现在正在发生的事情。它正在发生。

I understand. But that's what's happening now. It's it's happening now.

如果有人碰巧遇到Grok

If somebody happens to Grok

五或Grok六？这算侵犯版权吗？

five or Grok six? Is that violating copyright?

它甚至不知道那东西存在。在输出端...是的。这没问题。如果它在输出端创造了类似作品，他们就需要将其下架。这将是一个真正有趣的...这是我们将不得不应对的新领域。

It didn't even know that it existed. On the output yeah. That's fine. If it on the output created a similar work, they would need to then take it down. And so that that would be a a really interesting new that's a new space we're gonna have to contend with.

我能给你举个例子吗？

So Can I just you an example?

发生的情况是一个新概念，我们必须以新的方式应对。

Does happen is a new concept that we would have to address in a new way.

我给你举个科学领域的例子。ARC研究所发布的这个EVO二代模型，你知道，帕特里克·科里森是该机构的...

I'll give you I'll give you a science corner example. There's this EVO two model that they published at the ARC Institute, which Patrick Collison, you know, is the the

公司名称。

name for company.

那个EVO二代模型，他们只是吸收了世界上能找到的所有DNA数据，吞下了数万亿的碱基对数据，然后观察DNA中的模式。仅此而已。他们对DNA代表什么毫无背景知识，对基因概念毫无理解，完全不了解DNA的功能和本质。

So that EVO two model, they just ingested all the DNA data they could find in the world, trillions and trillions of base pair of data that they ingested, and then they looked at patterns in DNA. And that's it. They had no context for what the DNA represented. They had no context for the concept of genes. None of the structured understanding of what that DNA does, what it is.

知道它做了什么吗？他们输入BRCA基因变体后，这个模型在没有上下文的情况下输出警告：我认为这是DNA的致病变体。这是乳腺癌等位基因。它没有任何相关知识，也完全没有经过相关训练。它不知道存在导致癌症的致病变体，却识别出这是一种可能导致生物体某种致病结果的基因变异。

And you know what it did? They fed in the BRCA gene variant, and the thing output a warning saying, I think that this is a pathogenic variant to DNA without having any context. This is the the breast cancer allele. And it didn't have any knowledge and it did it wasn't trained on that at all. It had no knowledge that there are pathogenic variants for cancer, and it identified that this was a genetic variant that can cause some sort of pathogenic outcome in the organism.

这是个绝佳案例，说明人类层面其实并不真正理解自然界、社会和行为中某些模式的驱动因素——这些可能是AI模型正在识别的涌现现象。正如贾马尔所说，我们可能也会在娱乐等领域看到这种现象。

So that was that's a great example where there's a lack of understanding at the human level on what really drives some of the patterns in nature, the patterns in society, the patterns in behavior that are kind of emergent phenomena perhaps that these AI models are starting to identify. And I think to Jamal's point, we may end up seeing this in things like entertainment as well.

好的。这场辩论太精彩了。我们得进入下一环节。知道吗？九月份在洛杉矶的All In峰会上还会有更多精彩辩论。

Alright. This has been an amazing debate. We gotta move on. And you know what? We're gonna have more amazing debates September in Los Angeles at the All In Summit.

嘉宾阵容超强。阿里巴巴联合创始人乔西亚，ARK Invest的凯西·伍德，优步CEO达拉，红杉的罗洛夫，YouTuber克莱奥·艾布拉姆等等都会来。萨克斯，最后发言权给你。请。

The lineup is stacked. Alibaba's cofounder Josiah, Tom O'Bravo co founder, ARK Invest, Cathie Wood, Uber CEO, Dara, Sequoia's Roloff Bofa, YouTuber, Cleo Abram, and many many more coming. Sax, you get the last word here. Go.

最后发言是萨克斯。我刚看到一条推文提到中国的开放权重模型，其实就是开源模型。基本上，所有领先的美国模型都是闭源的，而所有领先的中国模型都是开源的。

Last word is Sachs. I was just highlighting this tweet that I saw where talking about Chinese open weight models or basically open source models. So basically, all the leading American models are closed source and all the leading Chinese models are open source.

这是

This is

某种程度上他们落后了。已经发挥出来了。是的。这是个相当不错的追赶技巧，确实。

kind of They're behind. Have played out. Yeah. It's a pretty good technique for catching up is to Yeah.

他们落后了。

They're behind.

开源因为这样你就能获得更庞大的开源开发者社区帮助。

Source because then you get the larger open source developer community helping you out.

那是

That's

很棒。但关键在于这些开源模型正在快速追赶。我们在许多其他方面领先。我们的芯片好得多，数据中心也更优秀等等。

great. But the point is just that these open source models are catching up pretty fast. We're ahead in many other aspects. Our chips are a lot better. Our data centers are better and so on.

而且我认为我们的闭源模型更优秀，但他们拥有开源模型这个领域。所以再次强调，如果通过制定大量合同谈判新要求来限制我们AI模型获取数据，我们真的可能输掉AI竞赛。这是非常严重的问题，绝非虚构的担忧。我不明白为何你认为这是捏造的。

And I'd say our closed source models are better, but they have this one area of open source models. So, again, if you hamstring our AI models access to data by creating a whole bunch of new requirements for contract negotiations, like, we could really lose the AI race. This is a really big deal. It's not a made up concern. I don't know why you think it's made up.

我从未说过这是捏造的。我认为这是美国获得独特优势的机会——仅亚马逊的2000万美元就相当于《纽约时报》收入的1%，这将直接转化为利润，让他们能雇佣更多记者。那些受保护的网站将实时提供内容，而这些语言模型只能去窃取。实时数据将成为Gemini、OpenAI、亚马逊等参与者的独特优势，我们可以创造

I never said that it's made up. I think it's an opportunity for America to actually have a distinct advantage, which is that $20,000,000 from Amazon alone is 1% of the New York Times revenue, and that's gonna go directly to the bottom line. It's gonna allow them to hire more journalists. Then that protected site will have be giving in real time something these language models are gonna have to go hack and steal. That real time data is gonna be a distinct advantage for Gemini, OpenAI, Amazon, whoever chooses to do it, and we can create

你怀抱着这种近乎浪漫的怀旧观念，关于新闻业和拯救《纽约时报》的必要性

You have this, like, nostalgic sort of quasi romantic notions about, like, journalism and the need to save New York Times

而且这也是艺术。

and It's also art.

所有这些事情。

All this stuff.

听着，萨克斯，你可以对我个人说任何贬低的话。这套说辞没用。不，不。你刚才说我怀旧什么的。

It's like, I mean, you can say all the derogatory things you want about me personally, Sachs. That argument doesn't work. No. No. You just said I have this whole nostalgia, whatever.

当

When

你 对。你就是。你在怀念过去存在的新闻业。

you Yeah. You do. You're nostalgic for journalism as it used to exist.

当你在辩论中对我人身攻击时，我就知道我已经赢了。这不是人身攻击。我没有怀旧。我在努力为美国创造可持续的竞争优势，而你是我们的公仆，你在运营AI。你必须接受我的反馈。

When I know I've beat you in the debate is when you make it personal like that. It's not personal. I'm not being nostalgic. I'm trying to create a sustainable a sustainable advantage for America, and you are our public servant, and you're running AI. You will take my feedback.

你必须接受

You will take

我的反馈。我们会无视你的反馈。我们会把你的反馈扔进该死的垃圾桶。

my feedback. We're gonna ignore your feedback. We're gonna ignore your feedback. We're throwing in the fucking trash.

不。你必须接受，而且我会去白宫参观。

No. You take it, and I will be showing up at the White House for my tour.

你有个疯狂的想法，认为我们绑住一只手就能赢得AI竞赛，这样你就能补贴记者。不，你会得到

You have this crazy idea that we're gonna win the AI race by tying one hand behind our back so that you can subsidize journalists. No. You'll more you'll get

更多内容。你之前不是说要更多训练数据吗？

more content. You said before you want more training data?

这太荒谬了。

It's insane.

为更多训练数据付费。你是沙皇。把这事汇报给总统。好了，我们继续推进。

Pay for Pay for more training data. You're the czar. Take it back to POTUS. Alright. Let's keep moving here.

我们必须继续推进。我们正在All In播客上进行一场精彩的辩论。这场精彩辩论不会停止，各位。

We have to keep moving. We have a great this is great debate. Great debate here on the All In podcast. It's not gonna stop, folks.

这只是你在吼叫。你只是在喊些毫无道理的话。

It's just you yelling. It's just you yelling saying things that don't make sense.

好吧。你可以这么说。你懂的。

Just Okay. You can say that. You get it.

你只加了大概三种配料，Cal。

You only have, like, three toppings to it, Cal.

我不知道发生了什么。你可以对他人进行人身攻击。

I don't what's going on. You can you can personally attack people.

第一点是我们必须接纳更多移民。

It's like we gotta let in more immigrants, number one.

第二点 高素质移民。

Number two High immigrants.

人工智能会让所有人失业。顺便说，这两件事之间看不出任何矛盾。第三点，我们需要做个总结 记者们要来了。

AI is gonna put everyone out of work. By the way, no sense of perceived contradiction between those two things. Number three, we need to, like, summarize Here comes the journalists.

我 你知道 观众们说

I you know, the audience says

不。每次都是同一个话题。

No. It's the same topic every time.

大家攻击我。不。杰森，他是唯一一个当观众

Guys attack me. No. Jason, he's the only he's the when the audience

我可以开发一个AI游戏

I can create an AI game up

像这样针对我，你们三个人联合起来，还对我进行人身攻击，观众走过来对我说，哇，你真的完胜了他们。今天做到了吗？不，还没有。

on me like this and the three of you gang up on this and you personally attack me, the audience comes up to me and they say, wow. You really nailed and beat them. Done that today? No. Not yet.

还没。稍微用了点Ozempic（减肥药）。但是

Not yet. A little bit of the Ozempic. But

但先把吃放一边。

but put aside eating.

是啊。确实如此。

Yeah. That's true.

让他吃。让他吃。就专心吃东西吧。

Let him eat. Let him eat. Involved in just eating.

他瘦得皮包骨了。体脂只有11%。让他吃。让他做饭。好吧。

He's emaciated. He's 11% body fat. Let him eat. Let him cook. Alright.

听着。萨克斯，你和我还会进行更多辩论，那将会非常精彩。购票请访问Allin.com/yadayadayada。大家快去吧。我们得处理议程了。

Listen. You and I, Saxe, will do more debate, and it's gonna be amazing. Allin.com/yadayadayada for tickets. Get in there, folks. We have to get to the docket.

已经过去一小时了，我们还有所有新闻要播报。

We're an hour in, and we still have all the news.

我们应该讨论一下Sam Allman提到的这个AI隐私问题。

We should talk about this this AI privacy issue that Sam Allman mentioned.

好的。这是个很好的过渡，David Sachs，我也看到了这个。作为负责AI事务的公务员，你在这方面可以做出额外贡献。我们还有更多工作可以交给你。好的。

Alright. That's a great segue because I saw that as well, David Sachs. And as our civil servant working on AI, this is something where you could have an additional contribution. There's more work we can give you. Alright.

听着，事情是这样的。AI用户隐私正在成为问题，因为我们的节目朋友Sam Altman表示，使用他的产品ChatGPT时没有法律保密性。这里有一段30秒的片段。再次强调，我们的节目朋友FOP Sam Altman在Theo Vonn节目上说的。

Listen. Here it is. AI user privacy is becoming an issue because friend of the pod, Sam Altman, says there is no legal confidentiality when using his product, ChatGPT. Here's a thirty second clip. Again, friend of the pod, FOP, Sam Altman On Theo Vonn.

人们会向ChatGPT倾诉他们生活中最私密的事情。尤其是年轻人，把它当作心理医生、人生导师，咨询各种关系问题。我该怎么办？而现在，如果你向心理医生、律师或医生咨询这些问题，是有法律特权的。但我们还没解决当你和ChatGPT交谈时的这个问题。

People talk about the most personal shit in their lives to chat GPT. Young people especially, like, use it as a therapist, a life coach, having these relationship problems. What should I do? And right now, if you talk to a therapist or a lawyer or a doctor about those problems, there's legal privilege for it. We haven't figured that out yet for when you talk to ChatGPT.

所以如果你向ChatGPT倾诉最敏感的事情，然后出现诉讼或其他情况，我们可能会被要求提供这些对话记录。我认为这非常不合理。我认为我们应该对与AI的对话建立与心理医生等相同的隐私概念。

So if you go talk to ChatGPT about your most sensitive stuff and then there's a lawsuit or whatever, we could be required to produce that, and I think that's very screwed up. I think we should have the same concept of privacy for your conversations with AI that we do with a therapist or whatever.

好的。Sacks，这引出了一个超级重要的问题。你怎么看？

Okay. Sacks, this is bringing up something super important. What's your take on it?

好的。我认为这是个有趣的话题，因为就像版权问题一样，这是个我们已有法律但需要重新思考这些法律是否真正适用或在这个新世界是否有意义的领域。现有的法律例子是搜索记录。政府可以获取你的搜索记录副本，可以传唤它。

Okay. Well, I I think this is an interesting topic because like copyright, this is an area where we have existing law, but it does make you rethink whether those laws are truly applicable or make as much sense in this new world. So the existing law, the existing example is search history. You know, the government can get a copy of your search history. They can subpoena it.

是的。每个真实犯罪故事都始于某人搜索'如何用毒药慢慢杀死我的丈夫'，然后他们就...是的。

Yeah. Every true crime story starts with the person searched for how do I kill my husband slowly with, you know, poison, and then they Yeah.

他们就是这样...

That's how they

明白了。确实如此。但关键在于，我认为Sam对当前法律处理的看法是正确的——在法律眼中，你的聊天记录与搜索历史并无二致，但它却更为私密。它比搜索历史更具互动性。正如你所说，你可以把它当作你的医生来使用。

get it. Exactly. The point is though that I think Sam is right about the legal treatment right now, which is that your chat history isn't any different than the search history in the eyes of the law, but it is much more personal. It's much more interactive than your search history. You are using it, like you said, you could use it as your doctor.

你可以把它当作心理治疗师，当作律师。因此，联邦政府侵入隐私的能力远比对搜索历史大得多。所以我还不知道什么才是正确的政策，但必须承认这确实让我感到不安。

You could use it as your therapist. You could use it as your lawyer. And so the ability for the federal government to be intrusive is so much greater than with your search history. So I don't know what, like, the right policy should be yet, but I I will say it does make me uncomfortable.

是啊。市场可以...

Yeah. There's a market Can

我能提个建议吗？关于AI的。好的，请讲。他是我们的... 为什么不让人工智能模型通过律师资格考试和医学认证呢？如果事实证明AI模型确实更准确、更周到、反应更快、更合理，无论采用什么衡量标准，只要它们通过了与人类获得律师资格或医生执照相同的标准，我们为何不这么做？

can I make a recommendation to my Yeah. AI Yes, please. He's our Please. Why don't we let AI models get bar certified and get medically certified? So if the AI models, it turns out, are actually proving to be more accurate, more thoughtful, more responsive, more reasonable, whatever it is, whatever metric we're using, and they pass the same criteria as one would need to pass to qualify for the bar or to qualify for a doctor certificate, why don't we do that for the AI?

如果实现这一点，那么AI将享有与执业人类同等的特权。由此延伸思考，如果我们突然赋予AI与特权人类相似的权利，这最终将把AI的整体权利引向何方？

If that then happens, then the same privilege accrues to the AI as it does to the individual human that does it. And now if you extrapolate from where that takes us, if we're suddenly giving AI the same sort of privileged rights that we give to privileged humans, where is that gonna take us ultimately with respect to the overall rights for AI?

但前提是它们要承担责任。等等...

Well, they have responsibility. That hold on a second.

我只是...

I just

想再次强调：你提出了颠覆性的概念。我从未听人具体阐述过——AI能否通过专业知识认证？如果通过测试就有资格，但同时也必须承担责任。

wanna point out here once again. You have a mind blowing concept here. I've never heard anybody vocalize that. Could they actually be certified in that knowledge? And if they pass the test, makes sense they would, but then you also get responsibility.

能力越大责任越大。告诉你，虽然可以关闭这些功能，但这确实是个机遇。我会给你发个备忘录。

So with a great power comes great responsibility. I will tell you this. You can turn this stuff off, but this is an opportunity. I'm gonna send a note to you.

今天听起来可能疯狂，但我敢保证，如果你把这个设想放到Polymarket上，终将有人押注它实现的日期。

It sounds crazy today, but I guarantee if you put it on Polymarket, there will be a date when this happens.

我们来看看Polymarket。向Shane致敬。把这个调出来。我想指出的是，等下播后我会给埃隆发邮件说这事。

Let's do Let's bring up. Polymarket. Shout out to Shane. Let's get that up there. I just wanna point out, I'm gonna email Elon about this when I get off the pod.

这是个创造相当于LLM信号标杆的机会。所有聊天都应加密。所有内容都应默认加密。在Grok上默认加密，甚至让Grok都无法查看。

This is an opportunity to create the signal of the signal equivalent of an LLM. All of your chats should be encrypted. All of it should be by by default. Encrypted by default on Grok. Make it so that Grok can't even see it.

他们没有这种设置，所以当你想传唤数据时，可以像蒂姆·库克那样说：我没有数据。如果你想尝试开后门，那是你的自由。这是个市场机会。说实话，正因为如此我只用Brave浏览器和Brave搜索。我不希望我的搜索记录被保存在某个地方。

They don't have it so when you try to subpoena it, you can do what Tim Cook does, which he says, like, I don't have it. You you if you wanna try to backdoor it, you can. That's a market opportunity. I can tell you, I only use the Brave browser and Brave search for this reason. I don't want my search history, like, saved somewhere or whatever.

去他的。作为个人你可以掌控这些，但默认设置很重要，之后就需要你自己努力了。这是个绝佳的市场机会，Chamop。我甚至不想知道你和ChatGPT聊些什么。你的ChatGPT日志里都有什么？

Fuck that. You can take control of this as an individual, but the defaults matter and you have to then do the work. It's a great market opportunity, Chamop. I don't even wanna know what you're talking to ChatGPT about. What are you what's in your ChatGPT logs?

里面有什么，Chamop？如何延长？如何多获得一厘米？里面到底有什么？

What's in there, Chamop? How to extend? How to get the extra centimeter? What's in there?

你是想延长吗？

Are you trying to extend?

里面有什么？

What's in there?

我一直让它帮我找个主持人。

I keep asking it to find me a moderator.

哦，太好了。我一直让它帮我找个不是混蛋的参与者。天啊，Tremont，你现在完全处于反派时代，而且你还乐在其中，我太支持了。我爱你的反派时代。

Oh, great. I keep asking it to find me a participant who's not a douche. Oh my god. You are so deep in your villain era, and you're leaning into it, and I'm so here for it, Tremont. I love your villain era.

知道为什么吗？我太...

You know why? I am so

你为什么突然进入反派模式了？

Why are you going into your villain era?

我现在完全豁出去了。就像——哇哦。其实这种感觉很自由。太棒了，真的非常棒。

I am so risk on right now. It's like Whoo. It's liberating, actually. It's amazing. It's really amazing.

你今年变得这么离经叛道，有没有引发什么反弹？任何负面影响都行？对生意、招聘或其他方面造成不良后果了吗？

Is there any blowback to how outlandish you've become this year? Any blowback at all? Has it had any negative consequence on business or hiring or anything?

没有。但等等——离经叛道是指什么？我哪里离经叛道了？

No. But out but outlandish how? How have I been outlandish?

你完全卸下伪装了。彻底放飞自我。我觉得这样很好。他们现在隔着两扇窗户回头看呢。我们眼前这一幕简直精彩绝伦。

You're you're you're just filter off. You're filter off. And I think it's great. I think they're over two windows back. It's absolutely fantastic we're seeing here.

我问ChatGPT分析我的性格和智商。当你让ChatGPT剖析你时特别有意思，建议大家都试试。

I asked ChatGPT about my feature and my IQ. It's very interesting when you ask ChatGPT to analyze you. I suggest everyone do it.

确实，你只要问ChatGPT这类工具'你了解我什么'，它会知道那么多关于你的事，挺吓人的。

Well, actually, yeah, when you just ask chat GPT or whatever, what do you know about me? And it's scary how much it already knows.

确实吓人。

It's scary.

有个超棒的性格测试。你可以把这个测试输入Grok，有人做了个提示词模板，它能根据你的推特历史分析你的全部性格。准得离谱。它...

There's this great personality test. You can put this personality test into Grok, and this guy, like, made this prompt and it goes and it tells you all your personality based on your Twitter ex history. It is wild how accurate it is. What does

TKL，它分析你是什么结果？我其实挺好奇的。

it say about you, TKL? I'm I'm actually curious.

它对我们的评价都一样。我们都是那种网络自恋型ENTJ人格。你完全可以用迈尔斯-布里格斯测试分析你的聊天记录。不过说真的，你那个关于让他们获得某种认证的颠覆性概念我很喜欢。

It says the same thing about all of us. We're all, like, networked narcissist, ENTJ. You can literally run the Myers Briggs against your Yeah. Your chat history. It's actually but I I like your mind blowing concept there, by the way, of, like, them becoming certified in some way.

好了，新鲜经济资讯。政府是时候庆祝胜利了——第二季度GDP增长比预期高出50%，而美联储将利率维持在4.25%。第一季度GDP则下降了50个基点。

Okay. Fresh economic news. It's time for the administration to take their victory lap. GDP growth was 50% higher than expectations in q two as the fed held rates at 4.25%. In q one, GDP declined 50 basis points.

这可能是进口导致的，人们在囤积商品。

That's probably due to the imports. People were stockpiling goods.

这图表简直毫无意义。

That's the most pointless chart ever.

好吧...确实...我也觉得...是有点...

Okay. And then yeah. Is. I agree. It's a little bit yeah.

数据被其中一项严重扭曲了。

It's distorted by one of that.

我本来想用双柱状图展示的，这个你...

I wanted to have both. Yeah. I wanted to have both as bar charts. This one You're

绝对嗑药了。

totally on drugs.

直说无妨，没关系的。

Just say it. It's okay.

你吸了什么药？我没有，我只是在阿尔卑斯喝了杯咖啡。

What drugs are you on? I'm not. I had coffee in an Alp.

我退出。

Out I'm out.

告诉我吧。我们都是朋友。

Tell me. We're all friends.

你可以说

You can tell

出来。真的只是因为阿尔卑斯吗？好吧。

us. Is it really just Alp? Alright.

就这样。我要把它拿出来。

That's it. I'm taking it out.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我把它拿出来了，现在让我们回到正题。好的。美联储连续第五次会议维持利率不变。这次，11位美联储理事中有两位对鲍威尔的决定持反对意见。两位反对者都是特朗普提名的共和党人，所以看起来美联储现在也有点两极分化了。

I took it out, and now let's get back to the here. Okay. The Fed kept rates unchanged for the fifth straight meeting. This time, two out of 11 Fed governors dissented from Powell's decision. Two of the dissenters were both Republicans nominated by Trump, so it seems like the Fed is becoming a little polarized now too.

这是32年来首次有超过一位理事持反对意见，而且，即使只有一人反对也很罕见。这是一段25秒的片段，鲍威尔解释GDP如何影响了降息决定。尼克，请播放这段片段。

First time in thirty two years that more than one governor dissented and, yeah, even one person dissenting is rare. Here's a twenty five second clip of Powell explaining how GDP factored into the cut decision. Nick, please play the clip.

最近的指标显示，经济活动增长有所放缓。今年上半年GDP增速为1.2%，低于去年的2.5%。尽管第二季度的增长更为强劲，达到3%，但关注上半年有助于平滑季度数据中因净出口异常波动带来的波动性。

Recent indicators suggest that growth of economic activity has moderated. GDP rose at a 1.2% pace in the first half of this year, down from 2.5% last year. Although the increase in the second quarter was stronger at 3%, focusing on the first half of the year helps smooth through the volatility in the quarterly figures related to the unusual swings in net exports.

PCE指数，然后我会把这个交给你，萨克斯，让你来谈谈这里的官方立场，周四公布的6月PCE指数下降。PCE是美联储偏爱的通胀指标，而非CPI。6月PCE上升了30个基点，与预期一致。如果你还记得，我们在之前的节目中讨论过，CPI从5月到6月上升了约13%或30个基点。所以我们离2%的目标还很远，这也是美联储一直在强调的。

The PCE index, and then I'll throw this over to you, Sax, for for the official position here, for June dropped on Thursday. PCE is the Fed's preferred gauge of inflation over CPI. PCE rose 30 bps in June in line with estimates. And if you remember, we talked about in a previous episode, CPI rose a bit 13% or 30 bps from May to June. So we're not any we're not close to the 2% target, and that's what the Fed keeps saying.

我们还没到那一步，而经济正处于火热状态。萨克斯，你注意到没有——我不确定你是否留意到萨克斯的言论——但人们都在讨论第二季度的GDP数据，表现非常亮眼。你在社交媒体上多次提到这个，沙莫斯。他一直强调上半年的数据，我认为他是想把这两个季度混为一谈，可能是因为关税差异，或者如他所说，为了平滑数据。

We're not there yet, and the economy is El Fuego. Sacks, you note I don't know if you noticed the Sacks, but people are talking about the q d the second quarter print, which was amazing for GDP. You were talking about it a bunch, Shammoth, on the socials. He keeps referencing the first half. So he's trying to blend those two together, I think, because of the the tariff differences or, you know, maybe to to smooth it out as he said.

你怎么看这个？GDP增长了3%，这相当不错。

What's your take on this? The GDP boomed in, you know, 3%, which is pretty great.

但问题不在这里。杰罗姆·鲍威尔面临的问题是，他试图平滑数据，因为这能让他为自己的政治决策找到理由。

But is that problem no. The problem that Jerome Powell has is that he's trying to smooth it because it allows him to justify his political decision.

好吧。

Okay.

但你必须区分第一季度和第二季度的原因在于，第一季度是在加征关税前，而第二季度是在之后。我认为必须分开看待这两者。如果你从第二季度的增速来推算，第三季度及以后可能会更接近第二季度的情况，即巨额盈余、GDP强劲增长和通胀缓和。那么美联储为什么不降息？因为目前不降息是唯一能在中期选举前拖慢特朗普政府步伐的手段——如果你想将这份工作政治化的话。

But the reason why you have to segregate q one and q two, q one was before tariffs and q two was after tariffs. So I think you have to segregate these two things. And if you look at the run rate from q two, what you're probably gonna see in q three and beyond is more similar to q two, which is to say a large surplus, good GDP expansion, and moderating inflation. So why does the Fed not cut? Because at this point, not cutting is the only thing that you can do to slow the Trump administration down going into the midterms if you wanted to politicize the job.

但另一方面，如果你单纯依据现有数据，忽略关税前的第一季度，从第二季度开始向前预测，此时若实施100个基点的降息，经济将迅猛增长，特朗普在2026年大选前会显得像个经济天才。所以我认为，抛开政治因素，应该降息。

If however, on the other hand, you just take the data as is and you ignore q one because it was pre tariff and you start to look at q two and you project forward, if you inject a 100 basis point cut into the economy, this thing is gonna go gang busters and Trump is gonna look like an economic genius going into 2026. So I think that, again, in the absence of politics, you cut.

明白了。萨克斯，政府内部及周边人士对此有何看法？我知道你不是代表总统发言，但你毕竟在政府任职，所以我猜你——

Okay. Sacks, what's to take from inside the administration and around it? I know you're you're not speaking for the president on this issue, but you're in the administration, so I'm assuming you're

没错。听着，我不代表任何人发言，但3%的增速显然远超预期。这是个惊人的数字，感觉所有环节都在高效运转。

Yeah. Look. I'm not speaking for anyone, but obviously, the 3% number is way ahead of expectations. It's a fantastic number. It just feels like, you know, everything's humming on all cylinders here.

有件事你没提到，但我觉得很重要，就是与欧盟达成的新贸易协议。我们即将——

The one thing you didn't mention, but I think is relevant, is the new trade deal with the EU. We're about

顺便说一下，接下来就要讨论这个。那是下一个话题。

to get to that, by the way. That's the next story.

哦，好吧。我是说，我会把那个包括进去，因为好吧。

Oh, okay. Well, I mean, I would include that because Okay.

那已经包括在内了。是的。

That's included. Yeah.

我是说，我认为这是一项刚刚宣布的协议，欧盟将向美国产品开放市场。美国产品无需关税，但进入美国时需支付15%的关税。他们将在美国投资6000亿美元。他们将购买7500亿美元的美国能源产品，还有一个非常大的数字，我猜他们没有具体说明国防产品的金额，基本上是美国的军事产品，数亿美元，这是他们承诺将北约贡献提高到GDP的5%的后续行动，之前大概是2%左右。所以，这对美国来说是一笔巨大的交易。

I mean, I think it was a deal that just got announced where the EU is gonna open its markets to US products. No tariff on US products, but they will pay a 15% tariff coming into The US. They're gonna be investing 600,000,000,000 in The US. They're gonna be buying 750,000,000,000 of US energy and then some very large number, I guess they didn't specify number on defense products, basically American military products, hundreds of millions, which is a follow-up to their commitment to raise their contribution to NATO to 5% of GDP, up from I guess it was sort of like 2% before. So, I mean, this is a huge deal for The United States.

我认为这对特朗普政府来说是一个巨大的胜利。这个协议太好了，以至于我在X上看到的欧洲消息来源、欧洲出版物和评论者都表示愤怒。他们觉得自己被坑了。很好。好吧。

I think it's a huge win for the Trump administration. And the deal is so good that what I'm seeing from European sources on X, European publications, just commenters, is that they they were, like, outraged. They felt like they got taken to the cleaners here. Good. And Okay.

你在X上看到很多欧洲方面的反应。很多欧洲领导人说乌尔苏拉退缩了。所以，你知道，所有那些愚蠢的墨西哥卷饼表情包现在都消失了，因为人们意识到特朗普愿意对这些国家提高关税以重新谈判更好的贸易协议的威胁正在奏效。

You see you see a lot of that on X by European side. A lot of the European leaders are saying that Ursula chickened out. So, you know, all those stupid taco memes are going away now because people are realizing that Trump's willingness to raise tariffs on these countries as a threat to renegotiate better trade deals is working.

确实奏效了。

It's working.

效果非常好。就拿这个欧盟协议来说，你可以这样想，加起来大约是2万亿美元。这实际上是2万亿美元的刺激注入美国，但没有印钞。

It's working extraordinarily well. Just this EU deal, one way to think about it is you add it all up, it's about $2,000,000,000,000. It's effectively $2,000,000,000,000 of stimulus into The US, but without money printing.

是的。在未来三年内。

Yeah. Over the next three years.

所以它不会引发通胀。

So it's not inflationary.

这并非无关紧要。弗里德伯格，你对美联储、GDP数据的看法，然后也许你可以深入分析那些数据的细节。如果你

It's not insignificant. Friedberg, your thoughts on the Fed, the GDP print, and then maybe you could get into the granular details of that print. If you

调出数据日程表，这是经济分析局提供的国民收入与产品账户数据。通胀数据正是来源于此。我认为有两条数据线值得重点关注。首先是家具及耐用家用设备类别，六月份这类商品成本环比上涨了1.3%。

pull up the schedule of data so this is the national income and product accounts data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis. So this is where the inflation print comes from. I think there are two lines worth taking significant note of. The first is the furnishings and durable household equipment line. So in June, the cost for furnishings and household stuff jumped 1.3% month over month.

按年率计算，如果持续这个涨幅，相当于同比近15%。其次是娱乐用品及车辆类别，环比跃升0.9%。这两个类别在近期历史上都未曾出现过如此大幅上涨。部分观点认为，这些跃升现象实际上是最初关税政策对进口商品成本的影响显现——因为这些商品主要依赖进口——已经开始对消费者产生负面影响。我认为现在需要对这些预计会受关税价格影响的类别保持观望态度。

On an annualized basis, right, that's almost 15 year over year if it were to continue at that level. And then the second one is this recreational goods and vehicles that jumped point 9% month over month. Neither of those categories have jumped that much in in kind of recent history. So part of the argument that's being made is that what we are seeing in these jumps is actually some of the first effects of the tariffs and the cost of goods that are being imported because these are largely imports having an adverse effect on the consumer. And so I think this is kind of a wait and see moment on some of these categories that are predicted to have a tariff price effect starting to show through.

这正是许多人士密切关注的领域，也为那些主张维持利率不变的经济学家提供了佐证——因为我们正目睹显著的通胀效应。这提醒我们在利率政策上需要审慎考量。

So I think this is where a lot of folks are keeping a close eye on, and it kind of provides a little bit of the support for the economists that are saying we should keep rates steady because we are seeing a significant inflationary effect here, it's worth noting that there's something that we need to be thoughtful about in rate policy.

这个观点非常到位。看看这场明显高度政治化的辩论：通胀率在2.5%到7%之间，支出明显增长，股市创历史新高，失业率又降至4.1%左右。

I think this is a really good point. If you look in this debate, which is obviously highly political, we're at inflation 2.5, 7%. Spending is increasing, obviously. Stock market at an all time high. Unemployment trending down again, so we're at, like, 4.1%.

人们正疯狂涌入加密货币和体育博彩，比特币价格创新高。美联储现在若降息无异于火上浇油。如果特朗普在第二季度搞垮经济，或许还能争取到降息。但如你所说Dave，现在不降息的理由正在累积——经济正烈火烹油。或许关税政策的'震慑推进'策略正在成为新剧本。

And people are just YOLO ing into crypto and they're doing sports betting, Bitcoin at an all time high. I think the Fed now is in a position where cutting rates seems like putting kerosene on the fire. If Trump tanked the economy in q two, he probably would have gotten the rates. But now I don't think it's reasonable, as you're saying, Dave, that the the reasons to not cut are building because the economy's on fire. So maybe the shock and bore approach to tariffs, which is now becoming a playbook.

我最近和Lutnick深入聊过这事——顺带说我很欣赏他。他向我描述了这个策略：特朗普先抛出惊人言论引发全民哗然，媒体和商界领袖集体抓狂。而Lutnick作为与政府高层直接沟通的渠道，负责在混乱后提出合理方案来搭建协商基础。

I had a nice talk with Lutnick about this who I love by the way. He really described to me how they're doing this and the shock and bore playbook is basically Trump says something completely outrageous, shocking, Everybody goes crazy. The media loses their mind. Business leaders lose their mind. Lutnick told me that what he does is he sets the table and proposes something reasonable because, you know, now I'm a big, you know, direct contact with all the administration sacks.

感谢分享。Nick描述道：特朗普进场看到所有方案后，开始在终局阶段进行微观调整——就像进入红区、来到五码线那样。

Thank you for that. But, Nick, and he described it. Trump comes in, sees all the stuff, and then he starts making his micro tweaks. So it's on the finish line. It's in the red zone, five yard line.

特朗普会突然追加三四个额外要求，然后达成协议。这套打法越来越高效。最初看似混乱荒谬，但他们让美联储陷入前所未有的困境——央行从未应对过这种局面。

Trump comes in, and then he sticks it to them again with three or four extra asks, and then they wrap it up. And that this is becoming really effective. So it was chaotic at first. It seemed nonsensical, but they've put the Fed in a really bad position because they've never seen this before. They've never seen this before.

现在美联储将陷入被动：若降息，正如Shermoff你所说，市场会瞬间暴涨。更讽刺的是，若市场在中期选举前飙升，这简直复制了共和党当年批评拜登在选前九月降息的剧本。虽然存在政治博弈，但必须承认特朗普团队这个2.0版策略的高明——如果这是Saxx预谋而我们当初没看透的话。

So now they're gonna be in this defensive position of what if we cut it and the market rips to your point, Shermoff. You just said the market will rip the second they cut that. And the cynical view of this is the market rips as we go into the midterms, which is the same claim the Republicans made about the cuts that Biden did in September right before the election. So there is some level of politics and gamesmanship going on here, but you have to hand it to the Trump administration for what they're doing with this sort of two point o playbook. If this was Saxx premeditated and we all just didn't understand it, fine.

最终结果取决于这些数字：欧盟6000亿，日本5500亿投资。Lutnick在现场被问及这些资金是否注入主权财富基金及使用方式时表示，将由总统全权决定——而他正建议将其用于增加核武储备。这着实耐人寻味。

The outcome here is this administration has to live or die by the results of these. 600,000,000,000 from the EU, 550,000,000,000 in investment from Japan. You put those two together, IS Lutnick, is that at the event, is that going into the sovereign wealth fund, and how does that get, you know, spent? And he said, at the discretion of the president, and he's advising him to spend it on putting more nukes in. So that's fascinating.

我们现在有一万亿美元可以投入核电站和这些小型模块化反应堆，这正是卢特尼克所说的。他想把这笔钱用在这方面。他将建议总统这样分配资金。但现在他们正在投资我们的国家。如果成功的话，这绝对是个绝妙的主意。

We have a trillion dollars now that we can put into nuclear power plants and these small modular reactors, and that's what Lutnick said. He wanted to spend it on. He's gonna advise the president to spend it on. But now we've got them investing in our country. It's absolutely brilliant if it works out.

看看

Look at

但我们会看看是否成功。

But we'll see if it works out.

4月2日是解放日，媒体都疯了。他们预测会出现黑色星期一。市场崩盘了。他们基本上试图吓唬市场，制造恐慌。他们说我们将进入衰退或萧条。

April 2 was liberation day and the media went crazy. They were predicting a Black Monday. The market crashed. They basically tried to spook the markets and create fear. They said that we're gonna go into a recession or depression.

现在看看我们的处境。仅仅几个月后，所有市场都创下历史新高。特朗普通过这些贸易协议榨取了数万亿美元，而人们之前

And now look at where we are. Just a few months later, all the markets are at all time highs. Trump has extracted trillions of dollars in these trade deals that people didn't

知道是预谋的吗？告诉我们真相。这是预谋的吗？

know premeditated? Tell us the truth. Was this premeditated?

等等。特朗普总统利用其他总统甚至不知道他们拥有的权力，从其他国家榨取了数万亿美元。

Hold on. President Trump has extracted trillions of dollars from other countries using powers that other presidents didn't even know they

100%确定。100%。是预谋的吗？因为当时很混乱。

had. 100%. 100%. Was it premeditated? Because it was chaotic.

市场

The market

市场没有因为这些原因做出那些变动

did the market didn't make those moves because of

顺便说一下媒体。我们做出那些举动只是因为他们害怕了。

the media, by the way. We just made those moves because they were scared.

而且我们刚刚公布了3%的GDP增长数据。

And we just had a 3% GDP growth print.

好吧。嗯，情况相当混乱。

Okay. Well, it's pretty messy.

我认为事情是这样的——特朗普总统看到了一个被其他人忽视的机会。就像一位新CEO接手一家被管理不善十年的公司，但资产负债表上有优质资产，市场地位依然强劲。这些资源一直被低估。而他上任后意识到美国在所有贸易谈判中拥有巨大筹码。

Think it's gonna be what I think happened is that president Trump saw an opportunity here that other people ignored. It's like when a CEO comes into a company, a new CEO comes in, and that company's been mismanaged for a decade, but it's got wonderful assets on its balance sheet. It's got a market position that's still very strong. This has been underutilized. And he came in and understood that The United States had tremendous leverage in all these trade negotiations.

实际上当时甚至算不上贸易谈判，在所有贸易关系中。他基本上重新协商了所有条款。看看结果吧，简直令人震惊。所有人都说特朗普会退缩。

Actually, they weren't even trade negotiations then, in all these trade relationships. And he was able to essentially renegotiate all of them. And look at the results. I mean, they're just staggering. And, you know, everyone said that, oh, Trump's gonna chicken out.

他不会坚持强硬立场。结果却是其他国家像折叠椅一样纷纷屈服。我是说，他们都投降了。没错，溃不成军。

He's not gonna hang tough. It's all these other countries that have folded, I don't know, lawn chairs. I mean, they have all capitulated. Yeah. They folded like dream.

非同寻常。

Remarkable.

但你并没有回答我的问题。这是预谋的吗？给我们些内幕。

But you're not answering my question. Was this premeditated? Give us some insight here.

我不明白你在说什么？

I don't know what this what are you talking about?

当他们宣布100%、200%关税时，市场的反应不是基于媒体报道，而是特朗普的言论。所以这种震慑式谈判策略是早有预谋的吗？还是说你并不知情？毕竟你并未参与其中。

When they came out and they was like, oh, a 100% tariffs, 200% tariff, the market was not making that reaction based upon the media. They were making it based on Trump was saying. So was it premeditated this shock and bore, shock and reasonable negotiating strategy, or do you not know? Well, you're not privy to it.

听着，我并非以内部人士身份发言，但当时我们说过，当这一切发生、拉里·萨默斯在播客上预言厄运时，那些都只是谈判的初始要价。那只是谈判的开始，我们得看最终结果如何，而且政府仍需完美收尾。

Look. I'm not speaking as an insider here, but we said at the time that all of that was happening and Larry Summers was on the pod preaching doom is that all of that was an opening bid. It was all of a start to a negotiation, and we had to see where it ended up and that the administration still had to stick the landing.

好的。

Okay.

但根据欧盟、日本和韩国的情况来看，我得说目前形势看起来非常乐观。

But I gotta say based on EU, Japan, and South Korea, I mean, this is looking really good right now.

要知道，前五名国家就占了谈判内容的90%。就像特朗普在主题演讲中提到的——当他开始跑题谈其他话题时——他说：‘我甚至不需要了解那些小国家，有些国家的名字我都没听过。’只要搞定前五、前十的国家，我们就大功告成了。

Well, listen. It's the top five that are, like, 90% of the negotiation. As Trump said, there was another little note he did in the keynote when he kinda drifted into his, you know, different things he wanted to talk about where he said, I don't even need to know about the bottom countries. I've never even heard the names of some of these countries. He just gotta nail the, what, the top five, the top 10, and we're done.

本届政府同样需要完美收尾，因为目前这些只是握手协议。它们需要正式签署，需要获得批准。所以还有很多工作要做，但我...

And this administration administration has has to to stick the landing as well because these are handshake deals right now. They have to be inked. They have to be approved. So there's there's a lot more work left to be done, but I

我...还有另外一点要说。

am There's one other piece of as well.

对，还有一点。我们之前提到欧洲对美国产品实行零关税，但即使达成协议后，欧洲产品进入美国仍需缴纳15%关税。而且我们还没算欧洲在美国的6000亿美元投资，也没包括美国向欧洲销售的7500亿美元能源。明白吗？

Yeah. There's one other piece of it. So we talked about the the, you know, the fact that Europe has 0% tariffs on American products, but but even after this deal that the European products coming into The US will have a 15% tariff, and we're not including the $600,000,000,000 of European investment in The US. We're not including the 750,000,000,000 of sales of American energy to Europe. K?

单说这15%关税。现在全面实施后，每年能产生约3000亿美元的额外关税收入，用于帮助平衡预算。十年就是3万亿美元，这可是个天文数字。

Just talk about the tariff, that 15%. And what we're seeing now across the board is generating about 300,000,000,000 a year of additional tariff revenue that goes to help balancing the budget. Yeah. So 300,000,000,000 a year over ten years is 3,000,000,000,000. That is a big number.

简直难以置信。确实。

It's incredible. Yeah.

所以虽然不确定这能否完全满足弗莱堡的要求，但确实是重大助力。

It's got a So I don't know if that that completely satisfies Freiburg, but that's a big help.

弗莱堡，你认为由于所有这些因素，通胀有可能再次抬头吗？毕竟又有大量资金被注入系统。那么未来六个月我们是否可能看到通胀率达到3%？在你看来这种概率有多大？这是大家最担忧的问题。我...我不确定。

Freiburg, do you think that there is a chance that inflation is gonna tick up because of all this? Like, it is a lot of money being pushed into the system again. So could we see a three handle on inflation in the next six months, or what's the probability of that in your mind? That's the big concern everybody has. I don't I don't I don't know.

我也不确定。我认为关键问题在于——如果你分析每个品类，可以思考卖家利润率有多少？如果他们原本有30%利润，而我们征收15%关税，他们的利润会降到15%，还是降到20%同时涨价5%？如何平衡？实际情况是，这种相当于市场税的关税生效后，市场会找到新的平衡点，买卖双方将在X价格与Y利润间达成妥协。

I I don't know. I think the the big question, if you look at each of these categories, one way to think about it is how much margin is the seller making? If they're making 30% margin and we charge a 15% tariff, does their margin go down to 15%, or do they take their margin down to 20% and raise the price by 5%? What's the right balance? And what will happen is that now with this effective, you know, tariff, which is a sort of tax on the system, a tax on the market, market will find its kind of new equilibrium where the buyers are willing to pay x and the sellers are willing to sell it y.

我认为每个市场都会有所不同。在某些利润微薄的品类，我们会看到显著通胀；而在某些垄断性高利润品类，商家会自行消化成本，因为他们不愿引发价格竞争。所以不同品类会有不同表现，我们拭目以待。

And I think every market's gonna be a bit different. So I think in some of these categories, we will see significant inflation where there is a very thin margin that the seller has in selling. And in some of the categories where there's a monopoly and they have a big margin, they're gonna eat it because they don't wanna have competition, and they don't wanna see pricing competition emerge. So I think we'll see it vary by category, and, you know, we'll see how it goes.

好的。各位听众，根据英伟达黄仁勋和我的共同认定，这又是全球排名第一播客的精彩绝伦的一期。大家都表现太棒了，太棒了！

Alright. Listen. This has been another amazing amazing episode of the number one podcast in the world according to Jensen Huang from NVIDIA and me. And great job, everybody. Great job, everybody.

经典之作

It's a classic

每个人都功不可没。包括杰·卡尔，包括杰森·科普兰尼斯。特别要感谢弗莱堡，因为AI大会的筹备工作主要是他完成的

job in everyone. Even Jay Cal. Even Jay even Jason Kopiannis. Great job. And, actually, I wanna thank Friedberg because Friedberg did most of the work to organize the AI

重点表扬下。现在由我，总统先生发言。

a big shout out. Here's me, the president.

干得漂亮。

Great job.

各位，我们不妨做个记录：八年后我们中某人可以竞选满洲候选人总统。看看我和总统的装扮——我系红色领带以示敬意，穿蓝色西装向总统致敬。难道不像要参选吗？Presidentjason.com。

I mean guys, can we just make a note One of us can run for Manchurian candidate president in eight years, and look at me and the president. I put on the red tie out of respect. I put my blue suit on out of respect for the president. Does it not look like I'm running? Presidentjason.com.

好了，听着。

Alright. Listen.

照片可以像，你知道的，那张著名的比尔·克林顿与JFK会面的照片。明白吗？那可能成为某种...某种能...

Photo could be like, you know, that famous photo of Bill Clinton meeting JFK. You know? That could be something that that could be the thing that

我有点像是

I'm in like

特朗普总统。这会把你推向总统之位。

the president Trump. That propels you to the presidency.

我很感激你给我这个机会，并直接安排我与政府每位成员接触。非常感谢。第二天我们还参观了白宫，多么美妙的参观啊，我们中有些人第二天在白宫度过了美好时光。但说实话，不。

I'm in like thank you for giving me that and and for putting me in touch with each member of the administration directly. Thank you for that. And we had a wonderful tour of the White House the next day. What a wonderful tour some of us had at the White House the next day. But in all honesty, no.

你当时...？不。我在拍照。那是我开的玩笑。因为当时你们所有人都在场。

Was Did you? No. I was taking the pictures. That was my joke. Because it was all of you guys were there.

带你参观？我们本可以给你安排参观的。

Giving you a tour? We could've gotten you a tour.

我是说，听着。

I mean, listen.

我爱J。要求参观？我确实要求过...我不是那种

I love J. Ask for a tour? I did ask for I'm a I'm not the kind

会主动要求的人。我是那种...我们中有些人

of guy to ask. I'm the guy to Some of

还有正经会议要开呢，兄弟。

us have actual meetings to do, bro.

我是说一切都很好。一切都很好。

I mean It's all good. It's all good.

我手头有很多事情要处理。未来几周我有很多要宣布和发生的事情。但是，萨克斯，带我们了解一下幕后情况吧。我觉得这很有趣，所以我不介意被总统调侃。那很棒。

I got a lot going on. I got a lot to announce and happen in the coming weeks. But, Sacks, do take us behind the scene here. And I think it was hilarious, so I don't mind getting trolled by the president. It was great.

但你是怎么做到的，幕后是怎么安排的，他

But how did you how did that go about behind the scenes that he

那个笑话讲得真到位？别告诉他。就这样吧。就这样吧。

nailed that joke? Don't tell him. Leave it. Leave it.

你做了什么？我是说，因为那看起来像是经过排练的，还是他天生就那样？显然他天生就有喜剧天赋，但你是和他一起设计的吗？你需要和他确认吗？嘿，邓肯，J Cal，随便谁？

What did you do? I mean, because that looked like it was workshopped, or is he just naturally I mean, he's obviously naturally comedic, but did you put that in with him? Did you have to clear that with him? Hey, Duncan, J Cal, whatever?

嗯，他们问我要了我的共同主持人的名字，好吧。这样他们就可以点名了。所以我给了他们名单。

Well, they asked me for the names of, you know, my cohosts and Okay. So they could do shout outs. So I gave them the list.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

然后我就，我就说了，我甚至把Jay Cals的名字也加上了。

And I just and I said and I put even Jay Cals.

我没告诉过Prog Sick。但我是说，他接受了。

I didn't tell a prog Sick. But I mean, he went for it.

不。他他他明白了，我们讨论过了。

No. He he he got we went through it.

所以他听懂了笑话。好吧。

So He got the joke. Okay.

他听懂了笑话。我们之前讨论过这个。

He got the joke. We went through it before.

他得到了笑声。他明白了。他听到了笑声。哦，是的。

He got the laugh. He got it. He heard the laughing. Oh, yeah.

他听到笑声后反而更来劲了。

He heard the laugh and he doubled down.

我以为会很有趣。但不行，我们事先过了一遍所有人的名字。而我

I thought it'd be funny. But no, we went through everyone's names beforehand. And I

我是说，谈到情商。这家伙的情商简直爆表，老兄。他就是...我建议

mean, talk about EQ. The guy's EQ is off the charts, man. He just he's I suggested

我提议用J Cal这个名字。而他说，不。不行。要用全名。他觉得这样更礼貌。

I suggested the name J Cal. And he's like, no. No. Give me his full name. He thought it was more courteous.

啊。他其实是个非常

Ah. He's actually a very

没错。情商高。

Yeah. EQ.

有礼貌的人。是的。他希望...他希望用你的全名，而不只是昵称。

Courteous man. Yeah. Wanted he to wanted to use your full name, not just your nickname.

我想他大概是从我父母那里意识到的，他们简直欣喜若狂，所以对此我要感谢你。这对我父亲意义重大，他...这真的很感人。是的。他最近有些艰难，这让我有点哽咽，但我父亲确实经历了一些困难，之后我在布鲁克林见到了他。然后我们在短信上交流，这意义非凡，你知道，因为对于一个来自布鲁克林的孩子来说，能得到美国总统的点名...

I think what he probably realized was from my parents who were just over the moon, so thank you for that. It meant a lot to my dad who's That's lovely. Yeah. He's been struggling a bit and it it really let me get little choked up here, but my dad's been struggling a bit and got to see him in Brooklyn after that. And then we we were on a text stream, and and it meant a lot, you know, because for a kid from Brooklyn to get a shout out from the president of The United States is

你做到了。

You made it.

我是说，这简直...

I mean, it's just

不管父亲怎样

whatever the father

你父亲应该为你感到骄傲，兄弟。

Your father should be really proud of you, bro.

谢了，老兄。感激不尽。谢谢你们，兄弟们。好了，听着。

Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Appreciate it, boys. Alright. Listen.

第四，你是科学界的苏丹。了不起的戴夫·弗赖伯格。我们在十天内筹备了那场活动，然后立刻投入其中。他同时还得兼顾其他事务。所以我想表彰我们本周的最有价值成员。

Four, you're a sultan of science. The amazing Dave Freiberg. We put that event together in ten days and then jumped right in. He's gotta run a hollow at the same time. So I just wanna give our MVP of the week.

我们应该

We should

向希伦谷的伙伴们致谢，感谢他们的合作

give a shout out to the Hillen Valley guys for partnering

与我们。是的。雅各布。

with us. Yes. Jacob.

雅各布·雅各布·赫尔伯格干得很出色。

Jacob Jacob Helberg did a great job.

我爱雅各布。我超爱雅各布。

Love Jacob. I love Jacob.

还有德利安和

And Delian and

德利安和克里斯蒂安。

Delian and Christian.

谢谢，谢谢你们。他们是这次活动的合作伙伴。

Thank thank you guys. They were our partners on the event.

希伦谷团队表现太棒了。是的，我超爱那群家伙。但本周最佳MVP我要颁给你，大卫·弗里德伯格。你为此投入了大量心血，我们非常感激。

Hillen Valley did a great job. Yeah. I love those guys. But, yeah, just I'm giving the MVP of the week for of the besties to you, David Friedberg. You put a lot of work into this, So and we appreciate it.

你刚忙完一场活动，就立刻投入了全入峰会的筹备，再过几周就要举办了。夏莫，感谢你处理好了纽扣问题。人力资源部对那个...那个纽扣问题有些微词，所以...

You're running a hollow, then you went right into working on the all in summit, which will be out in a couple weeks. Chamot, thank you for buttoning up. We're getting a little complaints from the HR department about the, the buttons, and so

我们已经重新协商好了。我现在要解开三颗纽扣，在福廷到处走走。

we've we've now renegotiated that. I'm gonna I'm gonna unbutton three buttons now and walk around Fortin.

完美。萨克斯，白宫见。JD和我会在军官餐厅，邀请你共进午餐。嗨，萨西。JD。

Perfect. And, Sachs, I will see you at the White House. JD and I will be in the commissary, so we'll invite you to lunch with us. Hi, Sassy. JD.

那叫海军军官餐厅。

It's called the Navy mess.

实际上，在一片混乱中。对。而且你知道吗？卢特尼克也要加入我们。好的。

Actually, in the mess. Yeah. And and you know what? Lutnick's joining us as well. And Okay.

我们的能源专家是谁？克里斯？克里斯说他想参与进来，所以也许你可以加入我们。我现在就邀请你，因为我已经深入管理系统了。感谢大家的收听。

Who's our energy guy? Chris? Chris said he wanted to jump in on that, so maybe you can join us. I'll invite you now that I am deep into the administration. Thank you for tuning in, everybody.

Allin.com活动。奖学金门票已经上线。如果你想争取为数不多的奖学金门票，我们一直支持有潜力的新人。请注意，如果你经济宽裕，请不要申请奖学金，你是无法获得的。

Allin.comevents. The scholarship tickets are up. So if you wanna try to get one of the very few scholarship tickets, we always like our up and comers. Please, if you're if you're of of means, don't apply for the scholarship. You won't get it in.

但如果你是新人观众，想获得折扣门票，我们有数量有限的优惠票，请访问allin.com/events。爱你们，亲爱的们。拜拜。我们真该找个房间来场大型狂欢，因为他们都只是在发泄无处释放的性张力罢了。

But if you're up and coming and you're part of the audience and you wanna get one of those discounted tickets, we have a limited number of those available allin.com/events. Love you, besties. Bye bye. We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy because they're all just useless. It's like it's like sexual tension that they just need to release somehow.