第一部分：死亡医生：德克萨斯州死刑监狱中杀害多人的精神病学家

这里存在一些争议。

And there's a bit of a debate.

我发现一些研究精神失常作为法律概念的历史学家的文章。

I found, you know, some articles from historians who kind of study the history of insanity as a legal concept.

关于我们是否应该将这个医学概念视为主要由辩护律师等法律专家首先推动的，并因此视为法律权力扩张的例证，存在一些争论。

There's a little bit of a debate as to whether or not we should see this medical concept as something that was first pushed by legal experts, primarily defense attorneys, in order and was in in other words, and thus is an example of the expansion of the power of law.

对吧？

Right?

法律确实在推动这一概念进入科学领域方面负有责任，对吧，并且激励了早期的精神病学家有兴趣宣布人们精神失常。

That, like, the law was really responsible for pushing this concept into the science, right, and for incentivizing, you know, psychiatrists, early psychiatrists to be have an interest in declaring people to be insane.

对吧？

Right?

这在某种程度上是因为法律在推动它。

That that was something that came about in part because the law was pushing it.

米歇尔·福柯就是持这种观点的人之一。

And one of the people who argued this was Michel Foucault.

根据《医学史杂志》的一篇文章，尽管精神病学专业知识可能曾短暂地被引入作为一种替代权力模式，但它很快就在19世纪的医法机构中与法律并驾齐驱，从而扩展了权力而非篡夺它。

Per an article in the Journal of Medical History, though psychiatric expertise for a brief moment may have been introduced as an alternative mode of power, it soon found its place along side the law in the medicolegal apparatus of the nineteenth century, thereby expanding power rather than usurping it.

以这种方式，19世纪所谓惩罚的人性化被纪律权力的扩张所抵消。

In this manner, the alleged humanization of punishment in the nineteenth century was countered by the expansion of disciplinary power.

换句话说，尽管其中一些是好的，但我们在说有些人确实不能对自己的行为负责时，你在这里也看到法律在根据精神状态对谁享有完整权利施加一定程度的控制。

In other words, while some of this is good, the fact that we're saying, well, some people really can't be held responsible for their actions, what you're also seeing here is the law asserting a degree of control over, like, who gets a full set of rights because of their mental state.

对吧？

Right?

而这正是其中的阴暗面。

And that that's kind of the dark side of this.

对。

Right.

这不仅仅是约翰尼是否犯了罪并且精神失常的问题，嗯。

It it wasn't just a matter of whether Johnny did a crime and was out of his gourd and Yeah.

不应该为此负责。

Shouldn't be held accountable for it.

问题在于是否应该将简送进一个限制行动自由的机构，强制用药或进行他们原本不会同意的治疗程序。

It was a matter of should Jane be put into an institution where their freedom of movement is restricted and they're applied with medications or, you know, forced to take some sort of procedures they would not otherwise have agreed to do.

是的。

Yeah.

如果法律说，嘿。

If the law is saying, hey.

我们需要你定义精神失常，因为我们将用它来宣布某些人群受到法律的不同对待和限制，这实际上是法律权力的一种实质性扩张。

We need you to define insanity because we're going to use it to declare that certain groups of people are treated differently and restricted in different ways by the law, that's really an expansion in the power of law in a meaningful way.

换句话说，在十九世纪末二十世纪初，有几项重大发展为我们的'死亡医生'奠定了基础：法医精神病学家经常被当作雇佣枪手在法庭上获取预期结果，这深深植根于这个行业；精神失常的概念和心理健康定义被纳入法律程序，使得医学诊断成为国家起诉和处置人员的重要依据。

So, yeah, there's in other words, there's kinda a couple of different major developments that set the stage for our doctor death, right, in the late eighteen hundreds and the early nineteen hundreds, which is that forensic psychiatrists are often being used as hired guns to secure desired results in court and that that's very much at the root of the profession, and that the concept of insanity and definitions of mental health become incorporated into the legal process in a way that is going to make medical diagnoses a relevant aspect of how the state can prosecute people and what it can do to them.

与格里格森医生相处时间最长的作家罗森鲍姆将他描述为一个具有杀手本能的乡下男孩，在获得医学博士学位后，他在帕克兰医院完成了精神病学住院医师培训。

Rosenbaum, who's the writer who spent the most time with doctor Grigson, describes him as a country boy with a killer instinct, who after getting his MD, attended a psychiatric residency at Parkland Hospital.

他再次任教了一段时间，但罗森鲍姆认为这无法给他提供足够的挑战或竞争机会。

Again, he teaches for a while, but Rosenbaum asserts this doesn't provide him with enough of a challenge or enough of an opportunity to compete.

对吧？

Right?

就像这位最了解他的记者说的：传统精神病学本就不该是对抗性的过程。

Like and and that's kind of this journalist who knows the guy best is like, I think it's naturally there's not an adversarial process in traditional psychiatry.

你的精神科医生不应该与你对抗，对吧？

Your psych isn't supposed to be fighting you?

而这个家伙却想要搞对抗性精神病学。

And, like, this guy wants psychiatry.

他想在精神病学领域'赢'。

He wants to win at psychiatry.

因此法庭程序满足了他的需求。

So the court process provides him.

如果他能够参与法庭案件，那么他就成为了对抗性程序的一部分，这意味着他可以获胜，而别人会失败，他可以证明自己比别人更优秀，对吧。

If he can get involved in court cases, then he's part of an adversarial process, which means he can win, and someone else can lose, and he could prove that he's better, right, than someone else.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他在计分板上得分了。

He put points on the board.

他会在计分板上得分。

He'd put points on the board.

对吧？

Right?

传统意义上的优秀科学和学术界运作方式并不适合他这种所谓的'台球骗子'。

The the kind of traditional way good science and academia is supposed to go did not suit the, quote, pool shark at him.

因此他决定，我要找到在精神病学领域获胜的方法，这就是他进入法医精神病学领域的原因。

And so he decides, I'm gonna find a way that I can win at psychiatry, and that's why he gets into forensic psychiatry.

罗森鲍姆声称，与危险罪犯的智力对决让格里格森着迷，这很可能是格里格森自己会说的话。

Now Rosenbaum claims it's the duel of wits with dangerous criminals, which enthralled Griggsson, and this is likely that Griggsson would say certain things himself.

他有些名言基本上就像蝙蝠侠那样，比如'我正在与犯罪作战'。

He had some quotes where he'd basically be like, Batman, like, I'm at a war with crime.

对吧？

Right?

罪犯们，就像...我...我正在与世界上最危险致命的犯罪主谋们对抗。

Criminals, like, I I am I have I'm arraying myself against the most dangerous and deadly criminal masterminds in the world.

他真的很想把自己塑造成一个天才象棋大师的形象。

And he he really wants to portray himself as this genius chess master.

他会大谈特谈自己童年的棋局，然后，你知道的，就是和这些杀人犯之类的对手交锋的过程。

He'll talk a lot about his childhood chess games and then, you know, these this adversarial process with all these these murderers and whatnot.

他想让你觉得，他每周都在和汉尼拔·莱克特那样的对手较量。

And he wants you to look at them as, like, he's constantly every week, he's fighting Hannibal Lecter.

对吧？

Right?

就好像他面对的都是那种级别的对手，但这根本不是事实。

Like, that's who he's going up against, and that's just not true.

完全不是那么回事。

That's not at all true.

我们稍后会讨论他这种自我认知的偏差——他在每个采访中都极力宣扬这种形象。

And we're gonna talk about how off this belief he has about himself that he really pushed in every interview he ever did is.

不过首先，我们要插播几条广告。

But first, we're gonna talk about some ads.

哦，天哪。

Oh, Jesus.

是啊。

Yeah.

对广告的经典反应。

Good response to ads.

十年前，我曾追踪过国内最难以捉摸的连环杀手之一，但直到2023年他才终于落网。

A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.

答案就在眼前，只是被忽视了。

The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

那为什么花了这么久才抓住他？

So why did it take so long to catch him?

我是乔希·齐曼，这是《怪物》节目，正在追查长岛连环杀手——这是自‘山姆之子’以来纽约最臭名昭著的杀手案件调查，现已上线。

I'm Josh Zieman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the son of Sam, available now.

可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的平台免费收听。

Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

嘿，你好。

Hey there.

我是杰西·米尔斯医生。

Doctor Jesse Mills here.

我是UCLA健康男性诊所的主任，想向大家介绍我的新播客《问诊室》。

I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health, and I wanna tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom.

我是乔丹，节目制作人。

And I'm Jordan, the show's producer.

和很多男性一样，我已经多年没去看医生了。

And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years.

我会提出那些我们本该问但

I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking but

没问的问题。

aren't.

因为男性通常不去

Because guys usually don't go to

除非他们脸掉了一块或者骨折了，否则别去看医生。

the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone.

要看是哪根骨头。

Depends which bone.

哇哦。

Wow.

确实如此。

That's true.

每周我们都会剖析男性健康的独特世界，从睾酮、健身到饮食、生育能力，以及卧室里发生的事。

Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom.

你是说睡觉吗？

You mean sleep?

对。

Yeah.

差不多吧，乔丹。

Something like that, Jordan.

我们将用没有术语的科学讨论，为你真正好奇的问题提供真实答案。

We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about.

无论你是27岁、97岁还是介于两者之间，都会很有趣。

It's gonna be fun whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between.

《男性健康》不仅仅关乎六块腹肌和补剂。

Men's Health is about more than six packs and supplements.

它关乎能量、自信和人际关系。

It's about energy, confidence, and connection.

我们不仅希望你活得更久。

We don't just want you to live longer.

我们希望你能

We want you

活得更好。

to live better.

所以快去iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或你收听喜爱节目的任何平台查看邮件室。

So check out the mail room on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

嘿。

Hey.

我是杰·谢蒂，《On Purpose》播客的主持人。

I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the On Purpose Podcast.

最近，我有幸与标志性人物克里斯·詹娜进行了对话。

Recently, I had the honor of sitting down with the iconic Kris Jenner.

你永远无法确切知道生活会把你引向何方，哪里会成为你学到的最宝贵一课，别被喧嚣干扰，因为噪音实在太多。

You never quite know what or where life is gonna lead you and where it's gonna be the best lesson you ever learned and not get distracted by the noise because there's a lot of noise.

即使你的某个孩子与伴侣或前任经历了非常艰难的事，你依然会把他们视为家庭整体的一部分去爱。

Even if one of your children has been through something really difficult with their partner or an ex partner, you still love them as part of the unit and the family.

在大多数情况下，这些人是我孙辈的父亲。

These are in most cases, the fathers of my grandchildren.

我爱这些男人，这份爱不会因为我们共同经历的艰难时刻而消失。

I love these men and that love doesn't go away when we experience really challenging times with them.

共情是真正体会他人处境的关键。

Compassion is key into really feeling what somebody might be going through.

即便你不同意他们的观点，但如果你曾爱过他们，那么爱就是爱。

Even though you don't agree with them, if you once love them, then love is love.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的平台收听《On Purpose with Jay Shetty》。

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

在播客《健康那些事儿》中，我们将解答所有让你夜不能寐的健康问题。

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

是的。

Yes.

我是医生。

I'm Doctor.

普里扬卡·沃利，双重认证医师。

Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

我是哈里·昆达博鲁，喜剧演员，曾在凌晨三点搜索‘我是不是得了坏血病？’

And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3AM?

在《健康那些事儿》中，我们用不同的方式探讨健康话题。

On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way.

这不仅关乎我们能做些什么来改善健康。

It's not only about what we can do to improve our health.

还包括我们的健康状况如何反映我们的生活方式。

But also what our health says about us and the way we're living.

比如我们探讨糖尿病的那期节目。

Like our episode where we look at diabetes.

在美国，有百分之五十的人处于糖尿病前期。

In The United States, I mean, fifty percent of Americans are prediabetic.

2型糖尿病有多可预防？

How preventable is type two?

非常可预防。

Extremely.

或者我们关于芒果有多神奇的深度分析。

Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

哦，很难向世界其他地方解释，你们觉得自己的芒果不错，因为芒果确实很棒，但你们其实根本不懂。

Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that you like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but, like, you don't even know.

你不懂。

You don't know.

你不懂。

You don't know.

这将是一段有趣的旅程，敬请收听。

It's going to be a fun ride, so tune in.

在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或你获取播客的任何平台收听健康内容。

Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我们回来了。

And we're back.

呃，我不知道你怎么想，但我打算购买那个产品和/或服务。

Well, I don't know about you, but I I'm planning on purchasing that product and or service.

你懂吧？

You know?

我打算用钱作为交换手段来购买商品和服务。

I'm I'm gonna use money as a means of exchange in order to to buy goods and services.

听起来挺有意思的。

That sounds fun to me.

我们喜欢货币的形式。

We love the money form.

我们喜欢货币的形式。

We love the money form.

你用什么类型的货币，史蒂文？

What kind of money do you use, Steven?

你是不是那种喜欢拖着那些巨大的、500磅重的轮子在地上滚来滚去，把它们当作交换手段的人？

Do you are you one of those do you like to to drag around those big, like, 500 pound wheels and and whirl them across the ground and use those as a a means of exchange?

我喜欢楔形文字泥板。

I like cuneiform tablets.

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

或者任何能让你在口袋里真正感受到分量的东西。

Or any any anything that you can really feel the heft of it when it's in your pocket.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

因为...那个...我也特别喜欢这种方式，比打电话好多了——我现在几乎不给公司打电话了。

Because it it that's I I like that too so much better than, like, call I I never call a company anymore.

要是有投诉，我可不想被聊天机器人电话缠住。

I'm not gonna get stuck on the phone with a chatbot if I have a complaint.

我要把字刻在，嗯，泥板上。

I'm going to, like, hammer into, like, a mud tablet.

我要把字刻在泥板上晒干，然后把这楔形文字泥板寄给那家公司，投诉他们卖给我的劣质铜料。

I'm gonna hammer into mud and dry it, and then I'm gonna mail that cuneiform tablet to to whatever company and complain about the poor grade copper that they're selling me.

懂吗？

You know?

嗯。

Yeah.

唯一的问题是，我发现那些可能或不可能在节目前打过广告的在线赌博网站不接受这个。

The only issue is, I I I find that they don't take it on the online gambling sites that may or may not have been advertised before this.

不接受。

No.

所以这是唯一的缺点。

So it's the it's the one downside.

不过最近我在努力保持清醒，尽力而为吧。

But I'm keeping myself straight these days, so I'm doing what I can.

那很好。

That's good.

楔形文字，很适合干这个。

Cuneiform is, good for that.

说到保持清醒，格里格辛医生对那些无法走正道的人特别着迷。

Speaking of keeping yourself straight, doctor Griggsin is fascinated by people who can't keep on the straight and narrow.

对吧？

Right?

这些都是惯犯。

These are habitual criminals.

这些人有严重的冲动控制问题，显然大多数最终犯下死罪的人都是如此。

These are folks who have serious impulse control issues, which is obviously the majority of folks who wind up committing capital crimes.

对吧？

Right?

如今我们使用多种不同的精神病学诊断来分类这类人。

Now there is are a number of kind of different psychiatric diagnoses that we use today for, you know, this these kind of people.

格里格森使用的术语，以及你在他所有工作报告中反复看到的词，就是‘反社会者’。

The word Griggsson uses and the word that you find over and over again in all of the reporting on his work is sociopath.

对吧？

Right?

他对反社会者非常着迷。

He is fascinated with sociopaths.

他喜欢将人诊断为反社会者。

He likes to diagnose people as sociopaths.

对吧？

Right?

这一点非常重要，你们必须明白，因为这是我的心头刺。

And it's very important that you understand, because this is my pet peeve.

'反社会者'和'反社会人格'并非医学诊断术语。

Sociopath and sociopathy are not medical diagnoses.

他们绝对不是。

They absolutely are not.

没有人被诊断为反社会人格者。

No one is diagnosed as a sociopath.

这不是医学诊断。

It's not a medical diagnosis.

这是人们喜欢用的术语，因为他们以为是，但实际上不是。

It is a term people like to use because they think it is, but it's not.

过去人们常将'反社会人格者'与'精神病态者'这两个术语混用。

Now it it used to be the term that was proper that people tended to use kind of interchangeably with sociopath is psychopath.

对吧？

Right?

精神病态常用来描述许多这类人，比如许多杀人犯，特别是那些长期从事犯罪活动、有暴力倾向、有严重冲动控制问题、似乎缺乏同理心的人。

And psychopathy is what a lot of a lot of these people, a lot of, like, people who commit murder, particularly people who, again, are kind of these career criminals, career violent criminals who have a lot of issues with impulse control, who don't really seem to have much in the way of empathy.

精神病态这个术语曾长期被用来描述他们。

Psychopathy is the term that was for a long time to describe them.

我们现在不再使用这个术语了。

We don't use that anymore.

对吧？

Right?

如今这些人通常被诊断为反社会人格障碍（APD），这个诊断已经取代了我们所说的精神病态。

The current diagnosis that those people tend to be given today is antisocial personality disorder or APD, right, which has replaced what we call psychopathy.

对吧？

Right?

但重要的是你要知道当时的情况，医生。

But it's important you know that at the time Doctor.

格里格森工作时，精神病患者是当时用来形容他宣称的那些反社会人格者的医学术语。

Griggsson was working, psychopath would have been the medical term for the people that he was declaring to be sociopaths.

当你和普通人交谈时，比如你朋友说'哦，是啊，老兄'。

And when you're talking to, like, a regular person, like, when your friend's like, oh, yeah, man.

我老板做了这事或那事，我觉得他是个反社会者。

My boss did this or this, and I think he's a sociopath.

没关系。

It's fine.

我不在乎。

I don't care.

在日常生活中，我不会随便纠正别人。

I'm not gonna I don't correct somebody just in your daily life.

如果你是精神科医生，就应该用对专业术语。

If you're a psychiatrist, you should get the term right.

对吧？

Right?

你不该在死刑听证会上随便用一个非医学诊断的术语，就宣称某人患有使其更具危险性的疾病——这正是当前发生的情况，明白吗？

You shouldn't just may you shouldn't just be using a term that's not a medical diagnosis for a guy that you're declaring has an illness that makes him more dangerous, like, for the purpose of a death penalty hearing, right, which is what's going on here.

这事真的让我很恼火。

This just really bugs me.

再说精神病态者（他做诊断时用的术语）或反社会人格障碍患者（我们现在的说法），这类人不会对冲动或暴力行为感到愧疚。

Now psychopaths, which is, again, the term when he's doing these diagnoses, or people with APD, which is what we use today, are people who don't feel guilty for impulsive or violent actions.

他们能轻易且毫无顾忌地对他人撒谎。

They lie to others easily and without qualm.

他们很少建立亲密关系，且常常陷入犯罪行为。

They rarely have close relationships, and they often fall into criminal behavior.

汉尼拔·莱克特可能仍是文化上对所谓‘精神病态者’的首要参照，但绝大多数反社会人格障碍患者并非天才，也不擅长谋划。

Hannibal Lecter is probably still the number one cultural touchstone as to, you know, what we used to call psychopaths, but the vast majority of people with APD are not geniuses, and they're not good planners.

对吧？

Right?

这是关键特征之一。

That's kind of a key aspect.

虽非全部，但多数反社会人格障碍患者有严重的冲动控制问题。

This isn't everyone, but most people with APD have horrible impulse control.

他们不擅长规划。

They're not good at planning.

他们不擅长策划天才级的逃脱方案。

They're not good at, like, plotting out genius getaways.

对吧？

Right?

正因如此这些人常被抓获——研究显示他们往往智商低于平均水平。

That's why a lot of these people get caught is they don't tend to be a lot of it talks about how they're below average IQ.

我对智商测试存疑，但这些人的决策能力确实不足以成为‘嗜血法医’那样的人物。

I have my issues with IQ, but these are not people who make good decisions that allow them to be like Dexter.

对吧？

Right?

他们并没有比当局领先一步。

They're not one step ahead of the authorities.

他们是一时冲动决定实施暴力犯罪，然后拼命逃跑并留下一大堆证据。

They're deciding in a moment to commit a violent crime and then running like fuck and leaving a shitload of evidence.

这就是常态。

That's the norm.

对吧？

Right?

这些人并非高智商罪犯。

These people are not masterminds.

那些真正具备这种特质的人——你知道的，可能被诊断为精神病或反社会人格障碍的人——他们没有这些问题，他们有良好的冲动控制能力，更擅长策划，我们倾向于认为他们会选择几种特定职业之一。

The ones who are, you know, you know, might have been diagnosed as psychopaths or have APD who don't have these problems, who do have good impulse control, who are better at planning, we know tend to gravitate towards one of a couple of different careers.

这类人在商界比例过高，比如MBA、高管。

They are overrepresented in business, like MBAs, executives.

他们在执法部门比例过高，在神职人员中也比例过高。

They are overrepresented in law enforcement, and they are overrepresented in the clergy.

这些就是他们选择的职业。

These are they they go for jobs.

那些确实具备汉尼拔式高智商犯罪能力的人，他们会选择受职业身份保护的岗位，明白吗？这样人们不会怀疑他们，或者因为他们的社会地位就认为他们会做出那些变态勾当。

The folks who are do have that Hannibal Lecter mastermind capability, they go for jobs where they're protected, right, by what their their job is, where people don't look at them or assume because of their social status that they'll be doing the fucked up shit that they're doing.

对吧？

Right?

同时这也赋予他们一定程度的权力。嗯。

It also it also provides them a certain amount of power Mhmm.

为满足那些扭曲的欲望而操控他人，并在必要时加以掩盖。

To wield over others to fulfill whatever those twisted desires are and then cover it up should they need to.

对。

Right.

而且，你知道，所有这些其实是一个连续谱系。

And there's there's also, like, you know, like, all of this stuff is a spectrum.

对吧？

Right?

具有这类特质的人，比如我们常归因于这类人群的某些特征——比如缺乏过度共情能力——在某种程度上可能反而是优势。

People who have aspects of this, like, you know, the there's a degree to which certain things that we tend to attribute to this group of people, like not being overly empathetic, can be a benefit.

如果你是外科医生，不会因切割人体而感到困扰或许并非坏事，毕竟你的工作就是切开人体。

If you're a surgeon, maybe it's not that bad that you don't really get bothered by cutting into somebody because your job is to cut into people.

对吧？

Right?

叛乱分子在这些特质上的比例明显过高，你知道的。

Which insurgents are overrepresented, you know, with aspects of of kind of the things.

而且这个诊断标准一直在变化。

And and the this criteria has been shifting.

近几十年来我们逐渐意识到，过去对精神病态的诊断存在严重缺陷，现在依然不够完善。

We've really started to accept in the last couple of decades that, like, our old diagnoses of psychopathy were pretty flawed, and they're still pretty flawed.

但正如你所知，我们正朝着更理性地理解这一现象的方向迈进。

But, like, you know, we we're moving towards a more rational understanding of this whole phenomenon.

但需要明白的是，即使以当时的标准来看，格里高辛医生谈论这些他称之为反社会者的杀人犯时，他的观点也是完全错误的。

But it's important to know that even by the standards of the time, doctor Griggsin, when he talks about these these murderers who he calls sociopaths, he's just wrong.

按照当时的医学标准，尤其是当时的普遍标准来看，他完全是错误的。

Like, he's just wrong by the medical standards of the time and certainly by the standards of the day.

所以在1960年代，医生，你知道的，他对反社会人格者特别着迷。

So in the nineteen sixties, you know, fascinated by sociopaths, Doctor.

格里格森开始向检察官和辩护律师推销自己，声称是法医精神病学家。

Grigson starts selling himself as a forensic psychiatrist to prosecutors and defense attorneys.

最初，他的业务仅限于所谓的'行为能力评估'。

Initially, his business is limited to what were called competency exams.

明白吗？

You know?

就是判定被告是否具备接受审判的精神能力。

This is deciding if a defendant is sane for the purposes of standing trial.

而且你知道，这个理念本身未必有问题。

And, you know, there's nothing wrong necessarily with that idea.

我是说，虽然具体实施方式存在一些问题，但这个领域本身并非天生就有问题。

I mean, there's some issues with how it was applied, but this is not immediately a problematic field.

他声称自己进入这个领域是因为刚入行时，由于接受的自由主义教育，对精神病学存在许多错误认知。

He would claim that he got into doing this because when he first started, he had a lot of errant beliefs about psychiatry as a result of his liberal education.

用他的原话说：'刚开始我他妈被人骗得团团转'。

Quote, at first, I got the shit conned out of me.

在医学院时，我和你们见过的任何精神病医生一样开明。

In medical school, I was as liberal as any psychiatrist you'll ever meet.

你知道，大多数精神病医生会说，如果你犯罪了，那说明你心理有问题。

You know, most psychiatrists will say if you commit a crime, there's something wrong with you.

我并不认为这是真的。

And I don't really think that's true.

因为你看，大多数犯罪的人，就像...但我知道大多数精神病医生会...呃...比如，你持有少量大麻。

Because, like, most people who commit crimes, it's like but I I know most psychiatrists psychiatrists would would be be like, like, oh, you're you got, like, a possession of small amount of marijuana.

那你肯定有精神疾病。

You must have a mental illness.

对吧？

Alright?

或者你因为付不起超速罚单拖太久，结果被发了逮捕令。

Or you didn't pay a speeding ticket for too long because you couldn't afford it, and you got a warrant.

你就被认定有精神病——就连小偷小摸这种，也很少会让你被诊断为精神疾病。

You have a mental ill and that's like, even, like, petty theft, I get very rarely is gonna get you diagnosed with a mental illness.

我觉得大多数精神科医生不会这么说。

Like, I don't think most psychiatrists say this.

不会。

No.

不会。

No.

完全不会。

Not at all.

不会。

No.

而且你知道，就算是谋杀案也未必如此。

And it's, you know, it's also probably not even the case with murder necessarily.

对吧？

Right?

因为即使在当时，大部分证据都表明多数谋杀案是激情犯罪。

Because most of the evidence even at that time suggests that the majority of murders are crimes of passion.

对吧？

Right?

这些人平时神志清醒、功能正常，却在某个灾难性时刻突然失控。

Which is people who are otherwise sane and who are otherwise functional who lose their shit in a moment in a disastrous way.

对吧？

Right?

不是伪装身份的人——事实上大多数杀人犯都不是连环杀手。

Not somebody who they're not but most murderers are not people who want to keep murdering.

对吧？

Right?

这就像是激情瞬间爆发的事情。

It's like a thing that happens in a moment of passion.

而且...你知道，关于是否该给他们做诊断这件事本身就存在争议。所以我觉得他...他是在错误描述整个精神病学领域，因为他整个职业生涯都将以反对其他所有精神病专家来定义自己。

And, you know, it's debatable generally as to whether or not there's anything you would diagnose them with as so I I just think he's I think he's miss, like, he's describing the rest of his field badly because his entire career is going to be spent defining himself in opposition to every other psychiatrist.

就像他讨厌这个学科里的其他所有人，因为他觉得他们都是错的。

Like, he hates everyone else in this discipline because he thinks they're all wrong.

所以他必须编造同行们的所作所为。

So he has to make up lies about what his fellows are doing.

所以他声称自己带着这些观点介入，比如'啊这些人肯定都是病态的'。

So he claims that, like, he comes in with all these ideas about, you know, oh, all these people must just be sick.

然后他花了数千小时采访被指控的杀人犯，然后他开始明白，哦，不。

And then he spends several thousand hours interviewing accused murderers, and he starts to understand, oh, no.

其他所有精神病医生都错了。

All of the other psychiatrists are wrong.

这些人并没有病。

These people aren't sick.

引用原话，'他们只是很刻薄'。

Quote, they were just mean.

我经常觉得应该有个诊断术语。

I often think there ought to be a diagnosis.

你知道吗？

You know?

刻薄的狗娘养的。

Mean son of a bitch.

所以这里有个真正优秀的科学家。

So really good scientist here.

光是听起来就很严谨。

Just that sounds rigorous.

这是可证伪的。

That's falsifiable.

我就喜欢说这种话的精神病医生。

I love a psychiatrist who says shit like this.

难以置信。

Incredible.

难以置信。

Incredible.

我是说，我试着想象在现代职业中有人直接说他们和一群人谈过话。

I mean, I'm trying to imagine someone in a modern profession just saying that they spoke to a bunch of people.

是啊。

Yeah.

这让我联想到，比如，这和体液学说有关。

I mean, it reminds me of thinking, like, it has something to do with humors.

就像，哦，他们全都刻薄成性。

Like, oh, they're just all mean.

他们得了混账王八蛋病。

They got mean son of a bitch disease.

事情就这么简单。

There's not nothing more to it.

你没法再深入解读了。

You can't read into it any further.

没错。

Yeah.

简直就像《辛普森一家》里荷马最后得到大象的场景，有些动物就是混蛋。

It's literally like that scene from The Simpsons when Homer gets an elephant at the end where there's, like, some animals are just dicks.

所以随着时间的推移，他从宣布被告是否有能力受审，变成宣布越来越多的被告完全神志正常。

So over time, he goes from declaring people not competent or competent to stand trial to declaring more and more defendants perfectly sane.

对吧？

Right?

就像他一边这样做，一边得出结论，几乎没有人值得，你知道的，逃脱惩罚或因此获得减刑。

Like, he he he starts, as he's doing this, coming to the conclusion that, like, almost nobody deserves to, you know, get get off or deserves to have, you know, their sentence mitigated as the result of this.

他这种转变的正当性，某种程度上完美利用了他在媒体上的露面，以吸引北德州法律与秩序派的支持——那里是他主要执业的地方。

And his justification for this shift is something that he kinda perfectly crafted from his media appearances to appeal to the law and order set in North Texas, which is where he mostly practiced.

引用原话：‘这些日子当他们泪流满面时，我已学会这样回应。’

Quote, these days when they'll have tears falling down from their eyes, I've learned to give this response.

‘你少来这套把戏。’

You can knock that shit off.

‘你一点都骗不了我，你自己都不信这套。’

You're not fooling me a bit, and you can't believe it.

‘眼泪马上就会像这样干掉。’

Tears will just dry up like that.

‘好吧。’

Okay.

所以他正在为所处的时代和地域精心打造自己的形象。

So he's he's crafting his image perfectly for the place and time that he's set in.

对吧？

Right?

这种做法会非常对陪审团的胃口。

This this this is going to go over pretty well with juries.

他长期以来深受德州陪审团的欢迎。

He's very popular with Texas juries for a long time.

他还经常戴牛仔帽，这某种程度上是对特定人群的尊重。

He also wears a cowboy hat a lot of the time, which is, like, due regard for a certain kind of guy.

总之，我不太清楚他作为精神病学家是否曾有过自由主义时期。

Anyway, it's a little unclear to me whether or not, you know, he ever had a liberal period as a psychiatrist.

如果这只是他精心打造的形象的一部分，因为这很受欢迎——就像，哦，我曾经是那些对犯罪软弱的自由派懦夫之一，但后来我认清了真相。

If this is just, again, part of the image he crafts because it sells well that, like, oh, I used to be one of those liberal soft on crime weenies, but then I learned the truth.

对吧？

Right?

无论如何，他在1967年开始为被控死罪的人的精神状态作证。

Either way, he starts testifying about the mental status of people accused of capital crimes in 1967.

这里的主要转变是他不再作证这个人是否有能力接受审判。

And the main shift here is that he's no longer testifying, is this person competent to stand trial?

67年后，他主要作证的问题是这个人是否应该被判死刑。

After '67, he's primarily testifying, should this person be subjected to the death penalty?

对吧？

Right?

并解释原因。

And to explain why.

为什么精神病学家会参与其中？

Why is a psychiatrist involved in this?

这这为什么重要？

What what why does that matter?

对吧？

Right?

为什么为什么你会允许精神病学家就此作证？

Why why would you why would you allow a psychiatrist to testify about this?

这归结为某种虽非德克萨斯州独有，但在这一时期几乎只有德克萨斯才有的情况。

This comes down to something that is not quite unique to Texas, but is almost unique to Texas in this period.

所以他最初执业的几年，恰好赶上死刑制度非常混乱的时期。

So his first years practicing come during a very messy time for the death penalty.

对吧？

Right?

七十年代初，在德克萨斯州实行死刑暂缓令后，成立了许多小组委员会并召开会议，他们试图解决：作为一个现代州，我们该如何继续保留死刑？

There are a bunch of subcommittees and committee meetings in the early seventies after there's this kind of moratorium on the death penalty in Texas where they're trying to figure out how do we, as a modern state, continue to have a death penalty?

那应该是什么样子？

What should that look like?

对吧？

Right?

因为，你知道，我们已经过了那种由德州骑警直接进去吊死人的年代了。

Because, you know, we're we're past the age of some Texas Rangers just going in and hanging people.

对吧？

Right?

我们不能再那样做了。

We can't do that anymore.

你知道，如果《德州骑警沃克》真的在剧里把人送上绞刑架，这剧看起来可就没那么正面了。

You know, Walker, Texas Ranger doesn't look nearly as good if he's literally putting people in a gallows.

那么我们该如何真正地将死刑以现代方式纳入我们的体系？

So how do we actually, like, build this into our system in a in a way that's modern?

而这正是全国范围内关于死刑及其法律适用的大规模辩论的一部分。

And this is this is part of there's this massive debate nationwide at the federal level over the death penalty and, like, what the law should be about it.

德州就是德州，我们既要继续处决犯人，又要将其正当化为必要之举。

And Texas being Texas, we we're going to wanna find a way to both keep executing people and justify it as a matter of necessity.

对吧？

Right?

在执行过程中我们也不想显得落后。

We don't wanna seem backwards while we're doing it.

所以和德州大多数法律一样，制定现代死刑标准来取代旧方式的进程既仓促又混乱。

So like most Texas laws, the process of creating a modern death penalty standard to kind of replace the old ways was rushed and messy.

《德州法律评论》将州立法程序描述为'有些混乱'，这基本符合当今立法运作的实情。

Texas law review describes the Texas legislature's process as, quote, somewhat confused, which is generally accurate with how legislature works today.

时间是个平面圆环啊，朋友。

Time is a flat circle, my friend.

真是委婉的评价。

Generous description.

是啊。

Yeah.

相当委婉的评价。

Generous description.

对州议会和参议院都很客气，尽管他们最终制定了相互冲突的标准。

Kind to the state and house and senate, who both wind up with different and conflicting standards.

对吧？

Right?

双方提出了截然不同的死刑执行规则，却不得不在极短时间内协调这些分歧。

They both propose, like, very different sets of rules for how the death penalty ought ought to work, and they find themselves having to reconcile this in a very short time frame.

我想引用《德州法律评论》的一段话，让你了解这个过程有多混乱。

And I I I wanna quote from a passage by the Texas Law Review to give you an idea of how messy the process was.

在休会前只剩下阵亡将士纪念日周末时，众议院召集了一个协商委员会来解决两个法案之间的分歧。

With only Memorial Day weekend to go before adjournment, the house called a conference committee to resolve the differences between the two bills.

在最后一天，协商代表提出了一项既未出现在众议院也未出现在参议院法案中的方案，同时还加入了关于被告可能持续构成威胁的新措辞。

On the very last day, the conferees presented a scheme which appeared in neither the house nor the senate bill, along with newly minted language about a probability that the defendant would be a continuing threat.

同一天，两院以压倒性多数通过了委员会报告，却未专门审议关于未来危险性的新措辞。

That same day, both houses passed the committee report by huge margins without specifically considering the new language on future dangerousness.

所以为了能在长周末前脱身，在审议并提出自己的计划后，他们支持了一个完全不同的、没人读过的方案，因为，伙计，你懂的。

So to get out in order to get out for the long weekend after, like, deliberating and coming up with their own plans, they backed something completely different that no one's read because, like, look, man.

我们要放弃吗？

Are we gonna give up?

我得去湖边了。

We I gotta get out to the lake.

就像

Like

天气很热。

It's hot.

立法会议期间很热。

It's hot during the legislature.

你得忍受奥斯汀的酷热。

You gotta get the hot, Austin.

是啊。

Yeah.

来吧。

Come on.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

烧烤已经准备好了。

Got the barbecue ready to go.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

最初法律条款的模糊与拙劣表述导致了数年的争议，最终在1976年演变成一起州最高法院案件。

So the vague and poorly written nature of the initial legalese leads to several years of disputes and ultimately a state supreme court case in 1976.

由此产生的体系确实是一个现代体系，它创建了一个多步骤的路线图来决定何时处决以及处决谁。

The system that results from this is indeed a modern one and that it creates a several step road map towards deciding when and who would be executed.

对吧？

Right?

基本上，德克萨斯州立法机构构建了一个死刑决策流程图，就像我们已经判定这家伙有罪。

Basically, there's a the Texas legislature builds a flowchart of death to determine, like, we've convicted this guy.

我们应该处死他吗？

Should we kill him?

首先，陪审团必须一致同意被定罪的谋杀犯是蓄意杀害受害者的。

So the first thing that has to happen is the jurors have to agree unanimously that the convicted murderer had deliberately sought out to kill their victim.

对吧？

Right?

如果有人只是喝醉了开车撞人，那构不成死刑案件。

If somebody just, like, is drunk and hit someone with a car, that's not a death penalty case.

对吧？

Right?

这并不存在蓄意谋杀的意图。

There's not a deliberate intent there.

明白吗？

You know?

或者你像约塞米蒂·山姆那样意外射杀了某人，也不存在谋杀意图。

Or if you're just Yosemite Saming and accidentally shoot some guy, there's not intent.

所以他们需要达成共识的第二点是，被告有继续实施暴力行为的可能性。

So the next thing they have to agree on is that there's some probability that the defendant would go on to carry out future acts of violence.

然后他们需要决定的第三点是，综合考量所有情况后，不存在引发杀人暴行的挑衅因素。

And then the third thing they have to decide is that having taken everything that happened into account, there had been no provocation that had inspired the murderous violence.

对吗？

Right?

所以不是有人打了你然后你开枪还击——虽然以暴制暴也不对等，但毕竟你受到了挑衅。

So someone didn't punch you and then you shot them, and, you know, that's not an equivalent exchange of force, but you were provoked.

对吧？

Right?

这种情况即使要受惩罚，也会让你失去被判死刑的资格。

That would kind of disqualify you from the death penalty even if you'd get punished otherwise.

在这三点中，虽然我不同意像我们这样的州保留死刑，但至少第一和第三点...我能理解设立这些标准的用意。

Now of these three points, you know, the fur I don't agree with there being with a state like ours doing the death penalty, but those the first and third point are at least like, I see why they're in there.

对吧？

Right?

你要确保这不是一时冲动的犯罪，还要确保存在减轻因素，对吧，这不是斗殴的一部分。

You wanna make sure this is isn't just a crime of passion, and you wanna make sure they're like, this there's an mitigating factor, right, that this wasn't part of a fight.

不过第二个问题确实很棘手。

That second one, though, that's really problematic.

这简直就是预测犯罪那套玩意儿。

That's precrime shit.

对吧？

Right?

我是说，他们已经被定罪了，但你却要求陪审团判断：如果这个人不被处死，未来会实施暴力行为吗？

I mean, they've committed a they've been convicted of a crime, but you are asking a jury to say, in the future, will this person do violence if not killed?

你是在要求陪审团抛开所有证据，对某人未来的行为做出预测。

You're asking the jury to step outside of any evidence and make a prediction about someone's future behavior.

你不觉得这可能会出问题吗？

Do you see how that's maybe a problem?

没错。

Right.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，这确实是个区别。

It's I mean, it's certainly a distinction.

而且，我能想到的唯一类似情况就是保释裁决——是否因某人可能被视为潜逃风险或公共安全风险而拒绝保释。

And, you know, the only parallel I can think of is whether someone is released on bail or not because they might be considered some sort of flight risk or maybe a public safety risk.

但如果你将其限制在拘留某人或关押他们的范围内，对吧。

But if you contain that within the boundaries of holding someone in detainment or holding them behind bars Right.

是的。

Yes.

这不是永久状态。

This isn't a permanent status.

我们并不是在决定这个人整个一生，虽然这并不意味着没有问题。

We're not determining this person's whole life right, you know, even though that doesn't make it not problematic.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Right.

有可能他们会，你知道的，在监狱里待一段时间并证明自己没有威胁，然后被释放。

There's a possibility they could, you know, spend time in jail and and show that they're of no threat and then be released.

是的。

Right.

所以是的。

So yeah.

我是说，这确实是个巨大的区别。

I mean, it is a it's a huge difference.

这要求人们展望未来，带着肯定。

It's it's requiring people to look into the future with Yes.

毫无实际依据。

No real basis.

是的。

Yeah.

这有点，怎么说呢，很奇怪。

Which is which is, like, weird.

对吧？

Right?

于是这第二个要点，在德克萨斯州法律界被称为‘特殊议题二’。

And so this second thing, right, this second, like, point on the flowchart becomes known to the legal community in Texas as special issue number two.

对吧？

Right?

很多死刑案件最终都归结于这个‘特殊议题二’。

And that's really what a lot of death penalty cases are going to come down to, is special issue number two.

对吧？

Right?

如果让这个人继续活着，比如在监狱里度过余生，他是否会犯下更多暴力罪行？

Is this person going to commit more violent crimes if they are left alive, you know, for the rest of their life in prison or whatever?

这在整个西方法律体系中几乎都是独一无二的。

And this is almost unique in Western jurisprudence.

对吧？

Right?

本质上，德克萨斯州将死刑案件中陪审团预测未来的职责编入了法典。

In essence, the state of Texas has codified the duty of a jury in death penalty cases to predict the future.

全美只有一个其他州在考虑死刑时要求对未来的危险性做出判定。

Only one other state in The United States required a finding of future dangerousness when considering the death penalty.

这是如此小众的法律理论或程序，以至于德州以外几乎没人知道‘特别议题二号’的存在。

It's such a niche piece of, like, legal theory or legal, you know, procedure that very few people outside of Texas are even aware that special issue number two exists.

而更广泛的全国精神病学界最初似乎并未将此视为可能涉及他们领域的问题。

And the broader national psychiatric community doesn't seem to really have initially seen this as an issue that might concern their discipline.

对吧？

Right?

因为他们要面对50个州的情况。

Because they're you know, it's just that they've got 50 states.

他们最初并不关心——谁会想到精神病学家会介入这个‘特别议题二号’呢？

They're not concerned with, like, this initially as like a why would you even think psychiatrists would get involved in this special issue number two?

对吧？

Right?

这将被证明是个错误。

This would prove to be an error.

因为如果现在要求陪审团判定：若让此人存活，他是否会再次杀人？

Because if juries were now going to be asked to determine, will a person kill again if left alive?

检察官将开始寻找能预测特定被告行为的专家证人。

Prosecutors are going to start looking to hire experts, special experts for court cases who can speak to what kind of behavior is predictable for what kind of defendant.

所以博士

So Doctor.

格里克森将成为这批精神病学家中的先驱——即便不是第一个。

Grickson is going to be among, if not the very first of of these guys, of these psychiatrists.

对吧？

Right?

他描述了自己如何自然而然地从前一份工作过渡到这一行。

And he describes how he fell into this line of work in doing so as a natural evolution of his previous work.

据《时代》杂志报道，他当时正履行日常职责，评估人们是否应被强制收治时，一位法庭老手突然想到：

Per an article in Time, he was going about his normal duties, evaluating people for commitment proceedings when, quote, one court veteran suddenly thought, hey.

“这是个心智正常的心理医生。”

Here's a sane psychiatrist.

“于是我不再在周三打高尔夫，转而开始处理法律事务。”

Instead of playing golf on Wednesday, I started doing legal work.

对吧？

Right?

这大约发生在七十年代初。

So that happens in, like, the early seventies.

他之前就以类似方式评估人们有段时间了，但到七十年代中期，这种方式被正式确立为决定是否执行死刑的标准。

He started like he's been kind of evaluating people in a similar way for a while, but now it's sort of codified into, like, this is how we're determining whether or not to execute people, you know, by the mid seventies.

很快，法庭案件占据了他大部分工作时间。

And in short order, court cases now take up most of his professional time.

七十年代他每小时能赚100美元，年收入约6万美元——相当于如今的数十万

He's making, like, a $100 an hour, bringing in some $60,000 a year in the seventies, which is hundreds of thousands

美元。

today.

这在当时是

This is a lot of money in the

一笔巨款。

seventies.

是啊。

Yeah.

按现在的货币价值算，这大概相当于一年25万美元左右。

This is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of a quarter of $1,000,000 a year in in modern money.

对吧？

Right?

而且他每周只工作一天。

And very and he's again, he's doing, like, a day of work a week.

对吧？

Right?

能接到这种美差真是走运。

So nice gig if you can get it.

是啊。

Yeah.

他走的是帕特·萨贾克式的职业道路。

He's got the Pat Sajak career path.

没错。

Yeah.

在关于格里格森医生的采访中，德克萨斯大学法学教授乔治·迪克表示，他技巧娴熟且极具说服力，从不用居高临下的态度对陪审团说话。

When interviewed about doctor Grigson, University of Texas law professor George Dick said, he is skillful and persuasive, and he doesn't talk down to the jury.

迪克特别指出，格里格森比大多数同行更愿意对被告的未来行为做出预测，而且是十分肯定的预测。

Most importantly, Dick said, Grigson is more willing than most colleagues to make predictions about a defendant's future behavior, and really strong ones.

对吧？

Right?

他愿意断言，这个人绝对会——不像其他精神科医生那样站起来含糊其辞地说‘你知道，这类人再次犯罪并不罕见，但我不能确定’。

He's willing to say, this person will definitely, as opposed to other psychiatrists who'd get up and be like, well, you know, it's not uncommon for people with this to reoffend, but I can't say.

他会说，哦，我百分之百向你保证，如果现在不处决这个人，他一定会再次杀人。

He will say, oh, I can guarantee you a 100% this person will will kill again if you don't execute them now.

对吧？

Right?

你本不该那样做。

You're not supposed to do that.

不。

No.

他只是在满足客户花钱购买的服务，

He was giving his clients what they were paying for,

听起来是这样。

it sounds like.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

未来会有研究表明，精神科医生受雇于辩方还是控方，会影响他们对被评估对象的结论倾向。

And there's going to be research in the future that shows that when whether or not psychiatrists are hired by the defense or prosecution biases their findings on on individuals that they're asked to, like, evaluate.

对吧？

Right?

就是说，谁付钱给你确实很重要。

That, like, yeah, who is paying you matters.

你知道吗？

You know?

而且这很重要。

And and that's important.

这些都不是盲目的。

None of this is blind.

不是法庭雇人来说，只要告诉我们一个方向就行。

It's not the court hiring someone to say, just tell us one way or the other.

对吧？

Right?

这是检方在说，我想再添一笔死刑案例到我的履历上。

This is prosecution being like, I want another I I wanna put a death penalty thing on my belt.

明白吗？

You know?

就像，确保我们能处决这个混蛋。

Like, make sure this guy we can fry this son of a bitch.

再次强调，这不是精神科医生该做的事，也不是当时精神病学主流认可的行为，但格里格森医生却自封为德克萨斯州最权威的专家，专门判断某人如果活着是否会再次杀人。

Now this is, again, not something that psychiatrists should be doing or that was ever considered to be okay within the mainstream of psychiatry in this period, but doctor Griggsson takes it upon himself to make himself Texas' most recognized expert on whether or not someone will kill again if left alive.

罗森鲍姆在《名利场》中写道：'这就是医生登场的地方'。

Writing for Vanity Fair, Rosenbaum describes, quote, this is where the doctor comes in.

他会出庭作证，听完关于谋杀和凶手的案情陈述后——通常在没有检查被告、甚至直到审判当天才见到被告本人的情况下——告诉陪审团，作为医学科学问题，他能保证被告将如第二条定义所言持续危害社会。

He'll take the stand, listen to a recitation of facts about the killing and the killer, and then usually without examining the defendant, without ever setting eyes on him until the day of the trial, tell the jury that as a matter of medical science, he can assure them the defendant will pose a continuing danger to society as defined by number two.

仅此而已。

That's all it takes.

无论是控方还是辩方律师都会告诉你，这位医生之所以如此高效，关键在于他对陪审团展现出的那种医患亲和力。

What makes the doctor so effective, both prosecution and defense lawyers will tell you this, is his bedside manner with the jury.

他有着和蔼可亲、善于交际的乡村医生风范。

He is kindly, gregarious, country doctor manner.

他那令人安心、抑扬顿挫的东得克萨斯拖腔，帮助陪审员们克服心理障碍做出裁决。

His reassuring, beautifully modulated East Texas drawl helped jurors get over the hump and do the deed.

一位愤懑的辩护律师评价说，他就像个告诉你杀人无妨的马库斯·韦尔比（注：美剧《韦尔比医生》主角）。

Says one bitter defense lawyer, he's kind of like a Marcus Welby who tells you it's okay to kill.

天啊。

Jesus.

所以他基本上就是用最少的工作量，得出最确定无疑的结论。

So he he basically does the least amount of work possible and comes out with the most certain opinion possible.

是的。

Yes.

以最确定的观点来看，他确实如此，而且他不会再犯。你们都知道这件事的来龙去脉，就是基于戈德华特规则——那个曾被视为疯狂保守派的家伙。

With the most certain opinion, he does and he's not again, you were there's a whole thing about this, the Goldwater rule based on, you know, that guy who was considered a crazy conservative.

于是精神科医生们开始在电视上诊断他，说他偏执妄想之类的。

And so psychiatrists started, like, diagnosing him on TV as, like, you know, paranoid and whatever.

然后美国精神病学协会就表示：你们不能这么做。

And the the the discipline, the APA was like, you can't do that.

你们从未见过这个人。

You never met the man.

你们不能仅凭电视画面就对一个人下诊断。

You can't you can't just diagnose a guy from television.

他甚至不是通过电视诊断他们。

And he's not even diagnosing them from TV.

他就坐在那里，对面的人读着警方提供的案件摘要，他还一副‘哦，是啊’的样子。

He's like sitting across from a dude reading a police summary of the crime and going like, oh, yeah.

让我告诉你这家伙得了什么病。

Let me tell you what this guy's got.

太疯狂了。

Insane.

确实疯狂。

So insane.

还拿这么多钱就为了

And getting paid so much money to

赚大钱。

do a lot of money.

顺便说一句，《马库斯·韦尔比医生》是部关于医生的电视剧。

By the way, Marcus Welby, MD was a TV show about a doctor.

哇。

Wow.

是啊。

Yeah.

詹姆斯·布洛林演了其中一个角色。

James Brolin played one of the characters.

就是这样。

So there you go.

哇。

Wow.

年轻的詹姆斯·布洛林。

Young James Brolin.

不错。

Good stuff.

所以这属于不良职业道德，最初他是这样开始的：他会以虚假借口去采访被告。

So this is, like this is bad ethics, and this kinda starts initially, when he's doing this, he's using he'll go in and he'll he will interview the defendant, and he'll but he'll interview them under false pretenses.

他会以评估对方精神是否正常为借口进行采访，有时甚至两头收费。

He'll interview them under the pretenses of determining whether or not they're sane, and then sometimes he'll even be paid to do both.

他收了钱评估对方精神状况，然后又利用同样的分析结果断言'这人肯定会再次杀人'。

He'll be paid to determine whether or not they're sane, and then he will use that same analysis of them in order to say, oh, yeah.

这家伙肯定会再次杀人。

This guy will definitely kill again.

对吧？

Right?