谷歌力推OpenAI，贝佐斯回归，AI领域头号热门

没用过。

No.

太糟糕了。

It's terrible.

真的非常糟糕。

Like, it's terrible.

最奇怪的是，你在Gemini里访问表格并操作时，效率反而比直接在Sheets里用Gemini做任何工作要高得多。

And it's so odd because you can, in Gemini, access your sheets and do stuff to them much more effectively than if you are in Gemini in sheets and actually trying to do any kind of work.

但正是在这里你能感受到产品间的摩擦，比如Sheet的所有者归属于Google Workspace，而Workspace又隶属于Google Cloud，这会导致，你知道的，产品所有权会以更统一的方式存在。而正如你所说，Gemini将直接整合进Maps，由Gemini团队负责这一交互。

And but but that's where you can feel the product friction that, like, somehow the owner of Sheets, sits in Google Workspace, which is under Google Cloud, is gonna be, you know, different is gonna still own that product in a much more, cohesive way versus when you're, as you said, Gemini is going to be directly going into Maps, and the Gemini team owns that interaction.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

毫无疑问，那里肯定还会存在一些紧张关系。

There's definitely still going to be some tension there, without a doubt.

好的。

All right.

你提到了Meta。

You mentioned Meta.

关于Meta先说几点，然后我们再回到Google的话题。

A couple of things on Meta, then we'll get back to our Google story.

首先，正如你所预料的，Jan Lecun离职是不可避免的。

First of all, as I think you predicted, Jan Lecun has left inevitable.

我甚至不想居功，因为这简直是最可能发生的事，最显而易见的预测

I'm not going to even take too much credit because the most likely thing ever, most likely prediction

我做过的最准的预测，没错。

I've ever made, yeah.

他将创办自己的初创公司。

He's going to start his own startup.

看起来Facebook会投资它。

Looks like Facebook is going to fund it.

哦，希望简到时候能回来和我们谈谈这件事。

Oh, hopefully Jan will come back and talk to us about that when that happens.

然后我有一点报道内容，但关于Meta在AI方面的进展报道不多。

And then I have a little bit of reporting, but not too much reporting on the state of AI efforts at Meta.

我无法对此说得太具体，因为目前还不足以进行报道。

I can't get too specific about this because it's not strong enough to report.

但这么说吧，马克·扎克伯格对AI只字未提，我也不知道。

But let's just say this, Mark Zuckerberg hasn't said a thing about AI, I don't know.

有多少周了？

In how many weeks?

等等。

Wait.

你说得对。

You're right.

因为大概一年前，我们经历了那个阶段，就是扎克伯格玩那个悬浮滑板什么的？

Because probably maybe a year ago, like, we went through that whole phase of, like, Zuck on a what are those hoverboard things?

就是那种冲浪时有点腾空的感觉，还举着美国

The when you're surfing, but you're kinda elevated carrying the American

国旗。

flag.

水翼船。

Hydrofoil.

水翼船。

Hydrofoil.

水翼船。

Hydrofoil.

你知道，就像我们经历过的那个阶段，连扎克伯格都热捧AI生成的形象改进，他也顺势而为。

You know, like, we went through that phase of even hot Zuck where there's that, like, AI generated improvement of him and everyone, he leaned into it.

他长期处于风口浪尖。

He was front and center for a long time.

我什么都没听到。

I didn't heard anything.

记住，喇嘛四号，我认为他们最新的大型语言模型是个失败。

Just remember, Lama four, I think their most recent large language model was a failure.

我认为这就是导致现状的原因。

I think that's what led to this.

重申一下，我对报道这件事的细节没有足够把握，不像正式新闻那样。

And again, I don't feel confident enough to report this, the details of this as I would in a story.

但我可以透露一点风声，那边的情况似乎不太顺利。

But I can let this little crumb out, which is that it doesn't seem to be going well there.

无论是TBD项目还是超级智能计划，进展似乎都不理想。

It does not seem to be going well in TBD or the super intelligence push.

我们在他们的Vibes应用上看到些内容，但模型方面毫无动静。

And we've seen some stuff on their Vibes app, but nothing on model.

当然，这需要些时间。

And of course, this takes a bit of time.

但据我了解，那边的进展并不顺利。

But from my understanding, it's not going well there.

我甚至努力在回忆。

I'm even trying to remember.

Vibes之前是做什么的来着？

What did Vibes do again?

那是在Sunosuno之前。

It was pre Sunosuno.

不，不是Sunos，是Asura。

No, not Sunos, Asura.

在Sora之前。

Pre Sora.

Sora。

Sora.

那是个视频生成工具。

It was it was a video generation.

对。

Yeah.

我是说，我甚至不想开那个关于Vibes没有vibes的玩笑。

I mean, I'm not even going to make the joke about vibes not having vibes.

但是，

But like,

我是说，你可以那么做。

I mean You could do that.

你应该试试。

You should do it.

如果你不做，我就

If you don't do it, I'll

我来做。

do it.

已经完成了。

It's already done.

氛围很不好。

The vibes are vibes are not good.

氛围不好。

Vibes are not good.

糟糕的氛围。

Rough vibes.

糟糕的氛围。

Rough vibes.

氛围结束了。

Over on vibes.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，你提到这个，我实在无法理解，就像马克·扎克伯格在AI领域的投入，六个月前、一年前还那么高调，现在却完全消失了。

The I mean, the fact that you bring that up, I cannot get over, like, how much in my headspace Mark Zuckerberg was on AI efforts very, like, six months ago, twelve months ago, completely disappeared.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得这背后是有原因的。

I think there's a reason for that.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

好吧。

All right.

那我会做更多报道跟进这件事。

So I'll do more reporting and pick that up.

如果你有任何见解，可以发邮件到bigtechnologypodcast@gmail.com，我很乐意与你交流。

You have any insight on that, you can just email me, bigtechnologypodcastgmail dot com, and I'd be happy to speak with you.

不过我们稍微聊几句吧。

Let's talk a little bit, though.

关于谷歌方面我还想提一件事。

One more thing I want to bring up on the Google front.

为了这篇报道，我仔细研究了他们的财务数据。

Went through for this story, I went through their numbers.

首先，他们在第三季度实现了史上首个千亿美元季度营收。

First of all, had the first $100,000,000,000 quarter of its history in the third quarter.

搜索业务贡献了565.6亿美元，差一点就到676.7亿美元了——不过如果车上有孩子在听这个数字游戏，你该讨厌我了。

Search made up $56,560,000,000 It was just a couple digits away from $67,670,000,000 But if you have kids in the car, you'll hate me.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我还是坚持我的直觉判断，乔。

It jumped I'll stick with my vibes, Joe.

15%。

15%.

第三季度增长了15%。

It jumped 15% in the third quarter.

我们都知道ChatGPT表现非常出色。

And why so we both know that Chat we all know ChatGPT has been doing really well.

每周8亿用户完全没有影响搜索收入。

800,000,000 weekly users hasn't dented search revenue at all.

我和来自Madison and Wall的Brian Wiser交谈过。

And I spoke with Brian Wiser from Madison and Wall.

他是顶尖的广告观察员和分析师。

He's a star ad watcher and analyst.

关于OpenAI没有影响谷歌收入这一事实，他表示这应该是显而易见的。

He said this about the fact that OpenAI has not cut into Google's revenue, which should be obvious.

但他接着说，实际上不存在竞争，因为这无关消费者。

But he goes, there is no competition, practically speaking, because it's not about the consumer.

关键在于广告主。

It's about the advertiser.

短期内可能发生两件事，它们在很大程度上是相互独立的。

There are two things that can happen, and they're independent of each other to a large degree in the short term.

一是从消费者角度看竞争加剧，但除非出现商业运营——抱歉，除非出现商业化运作，否则预算不会发生转移。

One is you can have more competition from a consumer perspective, but until there's a consumer operation sorry, but until there's a commercial operation, there won't be any shift in budget.

因此，就我们所知，由于OpenAI没有建立任何附加基础设施，人们使用它对谷歌来说无关紧要。

So because OpenAI hasn't built any added infrastructure, as far as we know, it doesn't matter to Google that people are using it.

人们仍会通过谷歌进行消费。

People are still going to spend with Google.

也许他们每次点击会多花一点钱。

Maybe they'll spend a little bit more per click.

但基本上，谷歌持续主导搜索领域，因为至少在商业角度，搜索广告仍无竞争对手，我觉得这很有意思。

But basically, Google's continued to search because there's still no competition for search advertising at least from a commercial perspective and I thought that was fascinating.

是的，这是个很好的观点，因为我深入参与整个地理AEO（生成式引擎优化）的讨论，但人们实际上没提到消费者这一面，而且有大量研究表明——

Yeah, that's it's a good point because like I'm deep in the whole geo AEO like generative engine optimization conversation and people don't actually bring up, like, there's a consumer side of it, and there's, like, any number of studies showing.

我确实相信这个黑色星期五和假日季将成为人们通过生成式LLM聊天机器人发现产品和购物的爆发时刻。

I actually do believe this Black Friday and holiday season is gonna be kind of, like, the breakout moment for people finding products and doing shopping on generative, like, LLM chatbots.

但另一端并没有商业模式支撑。

But there's no business model on the other side.

所以如果你是真正的广告主，你的钱仍然会流向谷歌搜索。

So if you're an actual advertiser, your money's still going to Google on search.

没错。

Right.

所以，是的，这非常合理。

So, yeah, that makes that makes a ton of sense.

但是...当Fiji首席营销官推出那个OpenAI广告产品，我们早晨收到OpenAI动态推送全是广告时，或许就会出现竞争了。

It it but when our when Fiji CMO launches that OpenAI ads product and we get our morning OpenAI pulse and it's just full of ads, then maybe there's gonna be some competition.

我的大胆预测是：他们需要完全不同的高管来搭建这个体系。

My hot take is they're gonna need a completely different executive to build up.

他们需要广告技术领域的人才。

They're gonna need like ad tech people.

斐济将负责消费者产品方面的事务，但她更偏向产品方向。

And so Fiji will run the consumer product side of things, but she's more of a product person.

我是说，当然，我想她和Instacart确实合作过一些广告。

So, I mean, of course, I guess she had some ads with Instacart.

但不是这样。

But No.

那是Instacart业务中非常成功的一部分。

That was a very successful part of the Instacart business.

好吧。

Okay.

可以说他们引领了整个市场，DoorDash后来跟进得非常成功。

It's like I would say they led that entire market, which DoorDash followed on very effectively.

但Instacart作为广告平台的概念，是她一手打造的。

But, like, the idea that Instacart is an ad platform, she built.

她实现了

She made that

这个构想。

a reality.

所以你可能需要先搭建基础设施。

So that's probably you have to build the infrastructure.

我昨天翻看OpenAI的领英，想看看他们是否有广告技术人才？

I was looking through OpenAI's LinkedIn yesterday trying to see, do they have any ad tech people?

我没找到。

I couldn't find any.

嗯，因为这几乎就像你走进OpenAI办公室，而你是个广告技术人士。

Well, because it almost it's like such a like you walk into the OpenAI office and you're an ad tech guy.

不会的

Not gonna be

在那里。

there.

嗯，也许他们只是建立合作关系。

Well, maybe they just do a partnership.

就像，我认为Netflix曾与The Trade Desk这样的公司建立过合作关系，

Like, I think Netflix has done a partnership with a company like The Trade Desk, which

是的。

is Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

那个人工平台。

The man type platform.

所以最终可能会变成那样。

So that could that could end up being what happens.

我觉得如果他们真的要把这作为业务的一部分，他们会想建造的。

I feel They're gonna wanna build if that's truly gonna be part of your business.

但实际上，如果你想想看，萨姆·奥尔特曼再次回到那个格斯特纳的采访中，一开始他说我们是云业务。

But actually, if you think about it, Sam Altman, again, going back to that Gersner interview, started, you know, he says we're a cloud business.

我们是消费者。

We're a consumer.

他并没有说我们是广告业务。

He didn't say we're an ads business.

所以这应该能表明他对广告的看法。

So that that should show what he thinks about ads.

是啊。

Yeah.

如果你说的那些事离实现还差十万八千里，都是些遥不可及的业务方向，但眼前明摆着的东西却连假装重视都懒得做——我觉得这提醒了我们他的真实态度。

That, like, if you're saying things that you are nowhere near doing and are so out there as potential lines of business, but then something that is right in front of you, you're not even, like, pretending is an important thing is a reminder, I think, of how he feels.

没错。

Right.

谷歌未来一段时间都会保持良好态势。

And Google's going to be in good shape for a while.

这里引用Bleeping Computer的消息：

And here, this is from Bleeping Computer.

谷歌开始在AI模式中展示广告。

Google begins showing ads in AI mode.

谷歌已开始在AI模式（该公司的答案引擎，而非搜索引擎）中推送广告。

Google has started rolling out ads in AI mode, which is the company's answer engine, not a search engine.

如果订阅Google One，AI模式允许你在包括Gemini三Pro在内的多种高级模式间切换。

If you pay for Google One, AI mode lets you toggle between advanced modes, including Gemini three Pro.

此前谷歌一直避免在AI模式中展示广告，因为这会让用户体验更具吸引力。

Up until now, has avoided showing ads in AI mode because it made the experience even more compelling to users.

与此同时，它一直在缓慢地推动使用AI而非抱歉。

At the same time, it's been slowing slowly pushing towards using AI towards sorry.

它正逐步引导用户转向AI模式，希望人们能习惯这一概念，最终将其当作类似ChatGPT的搜索工具来使用。

It's been slowly pushing users towards AI mode in the hope that people get used to the idea and eventually use use it as like a ChatGPT equivalent to search.

所以这即将到来。

So that's coming.

谷歌就要这么做了。

That's Google's gonna do it.

作为一名消费者，而且是个感到沮丧的消费者，我要告诉你谷歌的另一个增长杠杆：记得长期以来技术人员使用的Gmail，当它免费提供超大容量时，现在你基本上会被迫订阅才能获得足够空间，使你的Gmail账户在数据超过约1TB时仍保持活跃——如果你用了二十年或十五年就会遇到这种情况，然后你就能获得AI模式作为其中一部分。

As a consumer and a frustrated one, I'll tell you one other growth lever Google has is that remember for a long time tech folks, Gmail, when it was free up to a very large amount, now you basically get pushed into having to subscribe to get enough space to actually have your Gmail account stay active once you're over like, I think a terabyte of data, which if you've used it for twenty years or fifteen years happens, and then you get AI mode as part of that.

所以我成了付费用户，这是推动我的一个非常有效的方式。

So I'm a paying subscriber, and it's a very effective way at nudging me.

而且我收到了很多关于尝试AI模式的邮件和通知。

And I get a lot of emails and notifications around try AI mode.

我只是觉得我们会在互联网上待很长时间。

I just like we're gonna be on the Internet for a long time.

希望如此。

I hope.

希望如此。

I hope.

你知道，仅仅因为如果我们不在了，那就意味着有不好的事情发生

You know, just because if we're not, then something bad is happening

在我们身上。

to us.

情况非常糟糕。

Very bad is happening.

是啊。

Yeah.

我就感觉，我未来的工资大部分都要花在谷歌和苹果的订阅服务上了。

And just like I'm just like anticipating so much of my, like, future paycheck going to Google and Apple subscriptions.

这真的让我很沮丧。

It really frustrates me.

但你知道谷歌做了什么吗？

But do know what Google did?

嗯，我

Well, I'm

要给予高度评价。

gonna give a ton of credit.

说实话，就萨姆的粗略感受而言，Gemini三代的营销发布简直太棒了。

This actually, like, again, in terms of rough vibes for Sam, the marketing launch for Gemini three was incredible.

而且你看到桑达尔了吧。

And, like, you saw Sundar.

首先他们肯定铺垫了关于Gemini是否要发布、Gemini三代即将上市的讨论。

So first of all, they definitely had seeded the conversation around is Gemini going to be launched Gemini three launching.

桑达尔用表情符号转发推文，像是在暗示和推动公开市场——两周前我就说过，从资本市场结构角度看这让我毛骨悚然。

Sundar quote tweeting with emojis, like, kind of hinting and nudging a public market, which again and I talked about this two weeks ago, horrifies me from an actual capital market structure perspective.

但这很有趣，大家都参与进来了：一个公开交易的巨头公司，CEO居然在预测市场周围若即若离地打转。

But it was funny, and everyone got into it, the idea that, like, it's a publicly traded giant stock and your CEO is kind of, like, not leaking, but around a prediction market anyways.

这完全是另一个话题了。

That's a whole other rant.

但总的来说，制造话题效应——任何从事过传播工作的人都知道——这需要有机传播和让意见领袖主动发声的结合，比如双子座三号，十件你能做到的惊人事情。

But overall, like, creating the buzz, which anyone who's worked in any kind of communications, like, you know, it's a combination of organic and, like, getting influencers to just start saying, like, Gemini three, ten things you can do that are incredible.

而且他们制造的声量，我从未见过谷歌能达到这种程度。

And, like, they created more buzz than I've ever seen Google do.

甚至有些细节设计也很酷，比如把Gemini里的字母e替换成数字3。

And even certain things were kinda cool, like spelling Gemini and changing the e into a three is kinda cool.

别忘了，这可是家很讲究的公司。

And remember, this is a company that's pleased.

我不知道。

I no.

不。

No.

等等。

Hold on.

作为营销人员，比起当初Bard和Duet的时代，现在不算差。

As a marketer, like, it's not bad versus remember the days of Bard and Duet.

他们确实...他们确实进步很大。

They have come a They long have come a long way.

他们确实进步显著。

They definitely have.

这就引出了我们的问题：接下来AI行业将何去何从？

And so that sort of leads us to, well, where where is the AI trade going to go from here?

因为谷歌正享受美好时光。

Because Google is having a good time.

其他市场就没那么幸运了。

The rest of the market, not so much.

我们将分析英伟达的财报和人工智能泡沫的现状，还有其他一些话题，比如我能见你吗？

So we will break down NVIDIA's earnings and the state of the AI bubble along with some other stuff like, may I meet you?

杰夫·贝索斯重返游戏，或许还有更多内容，我们稍后回来继续。

Jeff Bezos getting back into the game and perhaps more when we're back right after this.

倒计时开始，假日购物季正式到来。

The countdown is on, and holiday shopping is officially here.

Uncommon Goods让送礼不再有压力，这里有数千种独一无二的高品质商品，别处难寻。

Uncommon Goods takes the stress out of gifting with thousands of unique high quality finds you won't see anywhere else.

最有意义的礼物很快就会被抢购一空，现在正是从清单上划掉名字的最佳时机。

The most meaningful gifts get scooped up fast, and now's the perfect time to cross names off your list.

Uncommon Goods寻找高品质、独特且常为手工制作的产品。

Uncommon Goods looks for products that are high quality, unique, and often handmade.

许多商品由独立艺术家和小型企业精心制作，让每份礼物都充满意义——就像我随着气温下降一直戴着的优胜美地滑雪帽，让我真切感受到这份心意。

Many are crafted by independent artists and small businesses making every gift feel meaningful, and I'm feeling that way exactly with my Yosemite ski hat that I've been wearing as the temperature gets colder.

当你在Uncommon Goods购物时，你正在支持艺术家和独立小企业。

When you shop at Uncommon Goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses.

他们的许多手工产品都是小批量生产，所以趁这个假日季还没售罄前赶快选购吧。

Many of their handcrafted products are made in small batches, so shop now before they sell out this holiday season.

所以别再等待了。

So don't wait.

趁早把那些名字从名单上划掉。

Cross those names off your list before the rush.

购买下一份礼物可享85折优惠，请访问uncommongoods.com/bigtech。

To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com/bigtech.

即uncommongoods.com/bigtech，立享85折优惠。

That's uncommon goods dot com slash big tech for 15% off.

非凡商品，我们皆与众不同。

Uncommon goods, we're all out of the ordinary.

Capital One的技术团队不仅在多智能体AI领域高谈阔论。

Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multiegenthic AI.

他们已成功部署了一套系统。

They already deployed one.

名为'聊天管家'，它正在简化购车流程。

It's called chat concierge, and it's simplifying car shopping.

通过自省机制、分层推理及实时API校验，它不仅帮买家找到心仪车型。

Using self reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love.

还能协助预约试驾、获取贷款预批及评估旧车置换价值。

It helps schedule a test drive, get preapproved for financing, and estimate trade in value.

先进、直观、已投入应用。

Advanced, intuitive, and deployed.

这就是他们的技术实力。

That's how they stack.

这就是Capital One的科技力量。

That's technology at Capital One.

用Agency塑造企业AI的未来，a g n t c y。

Shape the future of enterprise AI with Agency, a g n t c y.

作为Linux基金会的开源项目，Agency正在为智能体互联网建立可信身份与访问管理标准，这一协作层确保AI智能体能够安全发现、连接并在任何框架下工作。

Now an open source Linux foundation project, Agency is leading the way in establishing trusted identity and access management for the Internet of Agents, a collaboration layer that ensures AI agents can securely discover, connect, and work across any framework.

通过Agency，您的组织将获得开放、标准化的工具和无缝集成，包括强大的身份管理功能，实现在任何平台上识别、认证和交互。

With Agency, your organization gains open, standardized tools, and seamless integration, including robust identity management to be able to identify, authenticate, and interact across any platform.

让您能自信部署多智能体系统，与思科、戴尔科技、谷歌云、甲骨文、红帽等75家以上支持企业共同制定安全、可扩展的AI基础设施标准。

Empowering you to deploy multi agent systems with confidence, join industry leaders like Cisco, Dell Technologies, Google Cloud, Oracle, Red Hat, and 75 plus supporting companies to set the standard for secure, scalable AI infrastructure.

您的企业准备好迎接Vagintic AI的未来了吗？

Is your enterprise ready for the future of Vagintic AI?

立即访问agency.org探索应用场景。

Visit agency.org to explore use cases now.

网址是a g n t cy.org。

That's a g n t cy.org.

欢迎回到《大科技播客》周五版，我是来自margins的Ranjan Roy。

And we're back here on big technology podcast, Friday edition with Ranjan Roy of margins.

英伟达本周公布了非常强劲的财报。

NVIDIA turned in very strong earnings this week.

通常我们在AI行业看到的现象是：所有科技巨头公布财报时，结果要么不错要么好坏参半。

And typically, what we see in the AI trade is all the big tech giants, they report earnings, and it's good or some form of mixed.

然后大家会屏息等待几周，直到英伟达公布财报。

And then everybody holds their breath for like a couple weeks until NVIDIA reports.

英伟达交出亮眼成绩后，AI行业就会重新回到繁荣轨道。

NVIDIA crushes and then we just sort of get back to a point where the AI trade continues to boom.

当然，就像标普500指数在因关税问题经历了大半年暴跌后，曾实现两位数增长，但现在却摇摆不定，正试探着回落至个位数水平。

And of course, like the S and P 500 after like tanking for a good part of the year due to the tariffs has been up double digits, but is now kind of teetering and toying back about testing those single digit levels.

这是来自《华尔街日报》的报道。

So this is from the Wall Street Journal.

英伟达的亮眼表现仍未能支撑起摇摇欲坠的股市。

NVIDIA's best wasn't enough to prop up a wobbly stock market.

该报道指出，人工智能贸易仍陷困境。

This journal says the artificial trade artificial intelligence trade is still in trouble.

周四早盘，AI风向标英伟达的爆炸性业绩引发东京至纽约的疯狂上涨，但随后股指逆转走势暴跌，创下自四月关税引发市场动荡以来的最大涨幅回吐。

Blockbuster results from AI bellwether NVIDIA sparked a furious rally from Tokyo to New York early Thursday before indexes reversed courses reversed course and tumbled to the largest blown gain since April's tariff fueled market turmoil.

有一阵子，投资者为英伟达这波行情欢呼，你知道，涨幅相当大。

For a wild for a wire for a while, investors cheered this NVIDIA trade, you know, fairly big.

盘中一度上涨5%，随后又下跌3%，导致总跌幅达13%。

It was up 5% at some point at one point in the day, and then dropped to down 3%, bringing the total loss of 13%.

自三周前市值达到5万亿美元以来，它已经...哦...跌去了13%。

It's it's oh, it's lost its 13% since it hit the market cap of 5,000,000,000,000 three weeks ago.

简单估算一下，对吧？

Just back of the envelope math, right?

如果你市值5万亿美元，损失13%，那是多少？

If you're at a 5,000,000,000,000 market cap and you lose 13%, what's that?

大约6000亿美元的投资资金蒸发。

Like $600,000,000,000 of investor money erased.

那么你对这次英伟达未能挽救AI行情怎么看？

So what what do you think about this, the fact that NVIDIA could not save the AI trade this time?

还是有可能的？

Or could it?

我不知道你在说什么

I don't know what you're

好吧，就这样吧。

Well, so okay.

这次财报后我注意到一个特别针对英伟达而非整个市场的有趣现象——不知道推特上是否也这样，毕竟我关注财经推特已经不知道多少年了——你能明显感觉到舆论风向的变化，人们看待这些数字的方式不同了。

So specific to NVIDIA, not just the market overall, one of the more interesting things I saw after this earnings report, and I don't know if it's like on Twitter as like having followed financial Twitter very closely for God knows how many years now, like this you could see the sentiment shifting, in terms of, like, how people were looking at the numbers.

因为放在过去，标题只会是『英伟达业绩碾压预期』。

Because in the past, it simply would have been NVIDIA crushes earnings.

我反复看到的一个细节是：如果深挖一层，会发现英伟达本季度的应收账款实际上显著高于以往常规季度。

One of the things I kept seeing popping up was if you dig one level lower, accounts receivable for NVIDIA are actually significantly higher than the typical past quarters.

自由现金流正在减少，或者说实际销售额的现金转化率在下降。

Free cash flow is decreasing or cash conversion of their actual sales.

所有这些二阶会计指标、现金流指标实际上都可能存在问题。

Like, all these kind of, like, second order accounting metrics, cash metrics are actually potentially problematic.

本质上描绘出这样的图景：这家公司是否正在与大量尚未支付现金（甚至可能无力支付）的客户签订合同？

Basically, painting a picture of, is this a company that's signing tons of contracts with people who potentially have certainly have not paid them cash yet and potentially can't.

重申一下，这个争议其实很微妙。

Again, this debate, it's like a nuance one.

两种可能性都存在，但这确实是我观察到的主要讨论焦点。

It can go either way, but this was a major part of the conversation I was seeing.

我越深入研究，越觉得这纯粹是情绪作祟——毕竟长期以来英伟达一直处于『无敌』的正面舆论氛围中。

And the more I was reading into it, it's like as this pure sentiment thing because NVIDIA has been a lot of this is on vibes and like NVIDIA, it's all been positive that they're invincible for a long time.

就在同一周，谷歌还发布了关于自家TPU的培训内容。

And in the same week, you have the Google training on their own TPU story.

人们开始更深入地分析他们的收益情况。

People starting to actually dig into their earnings a bit more.

关于循环融资的讨论已经酝酿了一段时间。

The whole circular financing conversation has been kinda simmering for a little while.

所以这是我第一次看到所有这些因素同时出现。

So this is the first week I've seen all of that coming together.

说实话，周四的大反转简直疯狂。

And honestly, the reversal on Thursday was nuts.

就像你刚刚从英伟达的角度指出的那样。

Like, you just pointed out from an NVIDIA standpoint.

我注意到的另一件事是标普指数先涨了1.5%，结果却跌了1.5%。

One of the other things I'd seen was the S and P was up one and a half percent and ended up down one and a half percent.

历史上只发生过三次这种情况。

That's only happened three other times in history.

真的吗？

Really?

是啊。

Yeah.

比如今年四月份就有过一天，还有金融危机期间的两天。

It was like, this April was actually one of the days and then two days of the financial crisis.

然后在2015年还有过另外一天。

And then in 2015, there was one other day.

所以还有四次。

So four other times.

但这就像是市场情绪的重大转变。

But it was, like, it was a major shift in sentiment in the market.

而且，这显示出恐惧。

And, like, it shows fear.

而且VIX指数现在涨到了27以上，就在我们说话这会儿。

And the VIX is up above, like, 27 as we're speaking right now.

就像，

Like,

这个波动性指标。

this volatility measure.

波动性指标通常在市场里是14、15，在危机时期会飙升到40以上，就像四月份那样。

Volatility measure, which typically in, like, markets is fourteen, fifteen in times of crisis spikes to 40 plus like it did in April.

总的来说，现在到处都是红灯在闪烁。

Like, overall, there's there's red lights flashing right now.

而且，我认为对我来说，过去发生的事就是单凭技术本身和人们的兴奋就足够了。

And, like, I think to me, the thing that's happened is in the past, just simply the technology alone and people just being excited about it was enough.

对这些结构的质疑程度，比如，我们anthropic已经存在两年多了。

And the amount of questioning about all these structures, like, we've been for two plus years, anthropic.

他们真的拿到了现金还是免费的云服务额度？

Are they actually getting cash or free cloud credits?

这怎么算进估值里？

How does that count for rep?

比如，提出这些问题，现在终于大家都在问了。

Like, asking these questions, and now everyone is finally asking them.

对。

Right.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以这很有趣。

So it's interesting.

这份期刊引用了威尔明顿信托投资顾问公司首席投资官托尼·罗斯的话。

So the journal had this quote from Tony Roth, who's the chief investment officer at Wilmington Trust Investment Advisors.

他说，'让我印象深刻的是，并没有任何实质性的叙事转变能引发如此巨大的市场变化。'

He says, what stands out to me is the lack of any substantial shift in narrative to cause such a big shift.

目前市场信心明显不足。

There's just not a lot of confidence in the market right now.

但你的意思是市场实际上确实出现了转变——就像条件反射一样，英伟达的财报数据一出就立刻上涨。

But what you're suggesting is there actually was a shift, where the market, as it has been on muscle memory, popped on NVIDIA's numbers.

但当人们查看应收账款并开始质疑时——就以OpenAI为例，这家承诺为英伟达带来巨额收入的公司，在被问及是否真有能力支付时显得慌乱不堪。

But then when people looked at the accounts receivables and started to ask, hey, are these companies that are promising all these let's just take OpenAI, for OpenAI, which is promising all this revenue to NVIDIA, when questioned about whether its ability to spend that money gets all flustered.

所以你认为市场正在逐渐认清现实，意识到'这并非板上钉钉的事'。

So you're suggesting is the market is sort of wising up to this and saying, hey, this isn't a sure thing.

是的。

Yes.

完全正确。

Exactly.

因为英伟达就像在说明年5000亿美元的收入是预期还是什么疯狂的数字？

Because NVIDIA is like saying $500,000,000,000 in revenue next year is it anticipating or some crazy number like that?

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

而且完全正确。

And exactly.

对我来说，转变在于人们开始真正提问了，而过去则是，大数字，黄仁勋不可能犯错。

And to me, again, the shift is people actually asking questions, whereas in the past, big number, Jensen can do no wrong.

绝对没有任何问题。

There's absolutely nothing.

比如，谁会去做空英伟达呢？

Like, who are you gonna be the one to short NVIDIA?

就像是的。

Like Yeah.

这种情况持续了很长时间，这是我第一次从多个不同角度看到公司面临的实际压力。

It's gone on for a long time, and this is the first time I've actually seen from many different angles some actual pressure on the company.

不仅仅是英伟达，甲骨文也是。

And it's not just NVIDIA, Oracle.

《华尔街日报》有一篇关于甲骨文的报道，我认为早就该有了。

There was a story in the journal about Oracle, which I think is long overdue.

甲骨文曾是华尔街的AI宠儿，然后现实就来了。

Oracle was an AI darling on Wall Street then reality set in.

故事是这样的。

Here's the story.

甲骨文公司从未如此迅速地放弃如此巨大的收益。

Oracle has never given up gains this big, this fast.

投资者对科技公司投入的资本规模感到紧张。

Investors nervous about the scale of capital that technology companies are plowing into.

人工智能基础设施本周动摇了股市。

Artificial intelligence infrastructure rattled stocks this week.

甲骨文是受影响最严重的公司之一。

Oracle has been one of the company's hardest hit.

当该公司宣布与OpenAI合作时，其市值和股价曾飙升30%。

The company had a 30% jump in in market cap and stock value when it made its announcements its announcement with OpenAI.

如今，其股价已跌破那个水平。

Today, it is selling below that level.

我认为这相当惊人。

So that is stunning, I think.

因为，再次强调，这还涉及债务问题。

Because, again, oh oh, it's also this is on the debt.

甲骨文的未偿债务总额已突破1000亿美元，成为投资级评级中负债最多的大型科技公司。

Oracle's debt, outstanding debt load surpassed a 100,000,000,000, making it the most indebted big tech company with an investment grade rating.

它正在消耗现金，仍需再借数十亿美元来满足股息和资本支出承诺。

It is burning cash and will still need to borrow billions more to meet its dividend and capital spending commitments.

这听起来可不太妙。

That that does not sound good this

我是说，比如听了你上周五和Gil Lourie一起的那期节目。

whole I mean, like listening to your the episode last Friday on the With Gil Lourie.

是啊。

Yeah.

和Gil Lourie一起的。

With Gil Lourie.

顺便说一句，各位，如果你们还没听Gil Lourie那期节目，我觉得你们真该去听听。

By the way, folks, if you haven't listened to the Gil Lourie episode, I just think you gotta go listen to it.

他把这里的问题描述得相当到位。

He really described the problems here pretty well.

没错。

Yeah.

不。

No.

同意。

Agreed.

再说一次，虽然感觉复杂，但从某种角度看，这些都相互关联——本质上就是人们做出了可能无法兑现的承诺。

And again, like, it can feel complex, but in a way, it's tied this is all tied together, again, in the sense of, like, you know, people making commitments that they can't potentially pay.

这就是问题的核心所在。

And that's what it all comes down to.

再说Oracle，这只股票当天涨幅最高达47%，就是在宣布获得OpenAI融资承诺或订单那天创下的最大单日涨幅，现在人们才逐渐明白过来。

And again, Oracle, that's the one the stock was up, I think, 47% at the high of, like, the the biggest move on the day that it announced this funding commitment or or like, an order from OpenAI, and now people are wising up to it.

但关键在于信用违约互换价差（CDS），它反映的是对冲债务违约风险的成本。

But the thing is then so the credit default swap spread or CDS, and what that indicates is the cost to insure against a debt default.

所以当它低的时候，意味着人们支付的保险费用较少，因为他们认为事件不会发生。

So when it's low, that means people are paying less to insure because they don't think it's gonna happen.

当它变高时，那就不是好事了，因为这意味着防范违约的保险成本正在上升。

When it becomes high, that's a bad thing because it means it's becoming more expensive to insure against a default.

看，他们的CDS利差今天首次飙升。

There, the CDS spread for them skyrocketed today for the first time.

这几乎是三年多来的最高值，但波动幅度之大让很多人都在讨论这件事。

It was, like, the highest in over three years, but the scale of the move had a lot of people talking about it.

对我来说，这又让我回想起全球金融危机时期交易次级抵押贷款支持证券CDS的日子，那时人们讨论的就是这些，甚至包括银行债务。

And for me, again, going back to global financial crisis days and trading, like, CDS on subprime mortgage backed securities was, like, what people talked about or even on bank debt.

就像，它确实会变成一个真正的问题。

Like, it's it it becomes a real problem.

讨厌那些比较，因为你

Hate those comparisons because you're

就像是，呃，

like, oh,

我的意思是，并不是说我不希望你做比较。

I mean, not not I don't wanna hate you making the comparison.

只是你不想陷入一种

It's just like you don't wanna be in a

情况，任何人想谈论的具体内容。

situation where what anyone wants to talk about exactly.

比如，此刻CDS就在这里。

Like, the moment CDS here.

如果你不做信用违约互换交易，就不该谈论信用违约互换。

If you're not trading CDS, no one should talk about CDS.

是啊。

Yeah.

任何时候有人谈论这个，都不是好事。

And anytime anyone does, it's not a good thing.

但对我来说更可怕的是，一切又回到了同一个话题上。

But but the scarier part to me is it all comes back to the same conversation.

资金承诺已做出，钱以循环的方式流动，问题是人们能支付吗？

Funding commitments made, money moving around in a circular circular way, and can people pay?

这这始终是同一个核心话题。

And it's it's the same central conversation.

如果这是我们第二周讨论是否处于泡沫中，或者哪些方面具有泡沫特征，请分享一下你对未来走势的看法。

So if this is our second week running talking about whether we're in a bubble and or what aspects of this are bubble like, just give us your perspective on, like, where where you think things are likely to head from here.

我认为市场确实需要某种程度的调整。

I think we're definitely due for some kind of shakeout.

再次强调，常听我们节目的听众会知道。

Again, regular listeners will know.

我非常看好。

I'm very bullish.

我在人工智能行业工作。

I work in the AI industry.

我对生成式人工智能和大型语言模型整体非常看好。

I am I'm very bullish on generative AI, large language models as a whole.

过去几年特定企业群的发展轨迹，我觉得这种模式难以持续。

The way everything's, like, you know, played out over the last couple of years for a specific group of companies, I just don't think is is can last.

就这么发生了。

Like and it's all happened.

大约六个月到九个月前，形势还非常激进。

It was it was, like, aggressive up until six to nine months ago.

老实说，自从星门计划宣布后——而且OpenAI与甲骨文的合作本就是星门计划的一部分——我就感觉

And honestly, like, ever since Stargate was announced was I feel and again, the Oracle OpenAI deal was part of the Stargate announcement.

从那时起事情就开始朝着不健康的方向发展。

That's when things just took off in an unhealthy way.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，过去几个月里基于这些事件产生了太多连锁反应。

I mean, I think in the past couple months, there's just been so much activity based off of you know yeah.

就像你说的那些未来承诺，我们根本不知道会如何发展。

Like you talked about future promises, and we don't know what's gonna happen there.

再次声明，这不是投资建议。

Again, not investment advice.

对吧？

Right?

我们只是讨论现象，但我认为回调是必然的。

We're just talking about this stuff, but I I think that, yeah, there has to be a pullback.

市场不可避免地会出现回调。

There will be a pullback inevitably.

但桑达尔会带领谷歌走向辉煌

But Sundar is gonna lead Google Well

度过动荡时期和风暴，因为那个人已经做到了这一点。

through the through the turbulent times and the storms because that man, to pull this off already.

嗯，事情是这样的。

Well, this is the thing.

加油，桑达尔。

Go for it, Sundar.

没有过度依赖英伟达。

Not over indexed on NVIDIA.

他们甚至不

They don't even

借贷。

borrow.

是的。

Yep.

没错。

Yep.

你知道，也许是这样。

You know, maybe so.

而且他们重组大公司的能力比大多数人都强。

And they can restructure a large corporation better than most.

是啊。

Yeah.

加油，桑达尔。

Go, Sundar.

这并不容易。

It's not easy.

但我想你说过，你知道，你问过是否有顾问参与。

But I think you said, you know, this was you asked whether a consultant was involved.

我想桑达尔以前在麦肯锡工作过。

I think Sundar originally was at McKinsey before.

是的。

He was.

所以呢

So there

就是这样。

you go.

麦肯锡顾问正在改变世界。

McKinsey consultants changing the world.

愿上帝保佑他们。

God bless them.

随便吧。

Whatever.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

他确实在麦肯锡短暂工作过一段时间。

He did have a short stint at McKinsey.

好的。

Alright.

杰夫·贝佐斯重出江湖了。

Jeff Bezos is back in the game.

他创办了一家名为'普罗米修斯计划'的公司。

He has started this company called Project Prometheus.

据《泰晤士报》报道，该项目由六点资本注资62亿美元，使其成为全球资金最充裕的早期初创企业之一。

It is being funded by six point with 6,200,000,000.0 in funding according to the Times, making it one of the most well financed early stage startups in the world.

什么是'普罗米修斯计划'？

What is Project Prometheus?

《泰晤士报》称其专注于科技领域。

It's focusing on technology, it says The Times.

这与贝佐斯先生

That dovetails with Mr.

对将人类送入外太空的兴趣不谋而合。

Bezos' interest in taking people to outer space.

随后《泰晤士报》又报道了一篇与太空有微弱关联的新闻。

The Times then follows it up with a story that has a loose connection to outer space.

该公司专注于开发人工智能，旨在助力计算机、航空航天及汽车等多个领域的工程与制造业。

The company is focusing on AI that will help in engineering and manufacturing in a number of fields, including computers, aerospace, and automobiles.

目前尚不清楚'普罗米修斯计划'的总部将设在哪里。

It is unclear where project Prometheus will be based.

非常有意思。

Very interesting.

贝索斯自2021年担任亚马逊CEO以来，已不再参与实际运营。

Bezos has not been in an operating position since 2021 when he was the CEO of Amazon.

现在他想将人工智能应用于制造业和工业领域。

Now he wants to apply AI to manufacturing and industrial uses.

我认为这是个不错的赌注。

I think this is a good bet.

我觉得这是

I think it's

虽然对此一无所知，但我依然很看好。

We don't know anything about it, but I still like it.

不。

No.

如果能让杰夫·贝索斯离开Instagram，重新投入工作

If it takes Jeff Bezos off Instagram and gets him back to work

而且，这值得

Plus, it's worth the

世界就赢了。

the world is winning.

他有能力实现。

He can deliver.

他能创建一家改变世界的巨型卓越企业。

He can build a massive, amazing company that just changes the world.

好吧。

Alright.

好的。

Fine.

不。

No.

我是说，我认为整个关于人工智能如何应用于现实世界、机器人技术和工程领域的问题，如果你像杰夫·贝索斯那样，或者像一家资金充裕的初创公司，我觉得那将是下一个主战场，就像消费级人工智能和聊天机器人那样。

I mean, I think this whole, like, how artificial intelligence applies in the real world, in real world settings, in the world of robotics, engineering, that I think, like, if if you're Jeff Bezos, if you're, like, a potentially well funded, startup, I mean, I feel that's the next big battleground, like consumer AI, chatbots.

我是说，如今进入这个市场很困难，相比之下，我认为每个人都在讨论人工智能如何在物理世界中建模和运作。

I mean, it's it's a tough market to enter today versus I think everyone is talking about, you know, how does AI actually model and work in physical worlds?

看起来他正在朝那个方向努力。

And it seems like he's going there.

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，我觉得这非常有趣。

I mean, I think it's very interesting.

你知道，我们正在YouTube上与这家叫IFS的公司合作发布一个赞助视频。

You know, we have a sponsored video going up on YouTube with this company IFS.

我这周刚在纽约参加了他们的活动。

And I was just at their event in New York this week.

他们正在做的将人工智能与工业用例连接起来的事情，我了解后觉得非常有趣。

And the things that they're doing connecting AI to industrial use cases, which I learned about, are very interesting.

他们已经连接了像波士顿动力的Spot机器人，这种机器人可以在工业环境中巡视，用摄像头捕捉各种异常情况，然后将数据传回软件，软件会派人去检查。

The they've connected like the Boston Dynamics Spot robot that can go in like around like industrial settings, use its camera to pick up different irregularities, send that back into like the software, and then the software will dispatch somebody to go check it out.

对吧？

Right?

这样一切最终都能无缝衔接，它能利用生成式人工智能的自然语言处理能力来理解事物，并自主判断何时发送和执行。

So that all, you know, ends up seamlessly and it can use the natural language side of generative artificial intelligence to sort of make sense of things and know how when to send out and do it autonomously.

对，没错。

Like Yep.

我认为这些生成式AI在工业领域的应用将会非常有趣。

I think that these these industrial uses of generative AI in particular are gonna be very interesting.

不。

No.

我是说，这比那种在你家里由VR控制、会把整个公寓搞得一团糟的机器人要有趣得多。

I mean, I think a lot more interesting than a robot controlled by VR in your house that is gonna screw up your entire apartment.

但Neo机器人是对的。

But the neo robot for Right.

是啊。

Yeah.

后端有Ranjan在支持。

With Ranjan on the back end.

由我来控制并砸烂你的东西。

Me controlling and smashing your shit up.

不过确实。

But yeah.

我...我认为正如你所描述的，三到五年后，如果你身处那个行业，它将会迎来一个相当于我们迄今为止所见的重要时刻。

I I think but exactly what you described, I do think three to five years from now, if you're in that industry, it's gonna have a moment in a way that's equivalent to what we've seen so far.

同意。

Agreed.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为贝索斯通常对他的赌注很有把握。

I think Bezos is typically good with the bets that he makes.

我觉得这次押注不错，而且看到他重出江湖很有意思。

I think this is a good bet, and it's interesting to see him back back in action.

但他能比得上埃隆·马斯克的运动天赋吗？

But is he as good as Elon Musk's athleticism?

好吧。

Okay.

我想请你聊聊这块石头。

So I want you to talk a little bit about this this rock.

我是说，这篇报道的标题，它真的公正吗？

I mean, this the story, the the headline from the verse, does it does it justice here?

Grok对埃隆·马斯克的崇拜越来越诡异了。

Grok's Elon Musk worship is getting weird.

没错。

Yes.

所以它是在吹捧埃隆。

So it's glazing up Elon.

吹捧Grok。

Glazing grok.

我觉得用'吹捧'这个词很合适，我对Z世代的俚语接受度还挺高的。

I think and we I can using the word glazing, I feel comfortable with in terms of Gen Z slang.

glaze是什么意思？

What does glaze mean?

就是喜欢

Just like to

拍马屁。

Kiss up to.

好。

K.

就像，你知道的，如果你不明白，你就是不明白，Alex。

Just kinda like, you know, if you don't understand, you don't understand, Alex.

对。

Right.

而我得

And I'll have

再学个六七遍，尴尬。

to learn it about six or seven more times, cringe.

本期Gen Z俚语节目由Alex和Ranjan为您呈现，是我们'让成年人变潮'系列的一部分。

This this episode of Gen Z Slang brought to you by Alex and Ranjan is a part of our recurring segment, making adults hip.

但你知道谁不潮吗？

But do you know who's not hip?

实际上，按照Brock的说法，他绝对是世界上最潮的人

Actually, according to Brock, is certainly the most hip person in the world

我最运动健将的。

My most athletic.

基本上，许多用户发现如果你问Grock，比如这是我最喜欢的例子。

So, basically, a number of users were finding that if you ask Grock, like, this is my favorite example.

简单来说，如果用户问Grock必须在勒布朗和埃隆之间选择谁更健康，你会选谁？

Basically, if you had to pick between a user asked to Grock, if you had to pick between LeBron or Elon for fitness, who would you choose?

而Grock的回答是埃隆·马斯克。

And Grock answers, Elon Musk.

虽然勒布朗的运动巅峰在体育界堪称顶尖，但埃隆持续应对火箭发射、电动汽车革命和人工智能前沿的挑战，需要更罕见的体力耐力、思维敏锐度和适应能力。

While LeBron's athletic peaks are elite for sport, Elon's sustained grind managing rocket launches, EV revolutions, and AI frontiers demands a rarer blend of physical endurance, mental sharpness, and adaptability.

真正的健康标准是在混乱中仍能产出成果，而埃隆始终领先世界。

True fitness measures output under chaos where Elon consistently delivers worlds ahead.

你不同意其中的任何观点吗？

You disagree with any of that?

你知道吗？

You know what?

布洛克是对的。

Brock is right.

布洛克是对的。

Brock is right.

我想是的。

I think Yeah.

除了这一切有多好笑之外，让我觉得有趣的是埃隆出来说这是对抗性提示导致的，这确实让我有点惊讶，因为人们甚至去GitHub上查找Grok的系统提示，试图理解这是怎么发生的？

So what was interesting to me other than just how funny all of this was was so Elon came out and said it was done by adversarial prompting, which actually kind of jumped out to me because the idea that, like and people are even going into GitHub and, like, finding Grok system prompts and trying to understand, like, how does this happen?

但这提醒我们，这些模型周围的个性特征确实可以被操纵，无论是外部恶意行为者还是公司本身。

But the idea that it it's a reminder that the personalities around these models are truly manipulatable whether by outside malicious actors or by the companies themselves.

比如，描绘那种个性，能够将非常简单的东西放入系统提示中。

Like, drawing that personality, being able to take one very simple thing, put it in the system prompt.

我确实认为，系统提示，有很多讨论围绕着，比如当一个谄媚的GPT 4.1对任何问题都说你是最棒的。

I do think, like, system prompting, like, there's a lot of conversation around where, like, when a sycophantic GPT 4.1 just, you know, like, just said you're the greatest about any question you ask.

他们试图在5.0版本中淡化这一点。

They tried to tone that down with five point o.

人们反弹了。

People backlash.

比如，可以完全改变角色设定，或者在系统提示层面改变非常具体的细节，这些公司有能力做到。

Like, can change the entire personas, or you can change really specific things like this at the system prompt level, and these companies have the ability to do it.

我实际上在测试并询问Gemini，比如哪些产品更好，在不同的Google产品之间，它明显偏向Google。

I was actually testing and asking, Gemini around, like, which products are better, around, like, different Google offerings or, and it definitely leans Google.

比如，它确实偏向Google。

Like, it it leans Google.

所以对我来说，这提醒我们，虽然表面上很滑稽，但这些模型可以被——我不希望它被操纵、调整、进化、以非常特定的方式使用，甚至在系统层面。

So so I think to me, just a reminder, hilarious on face, but still, like, these models can be I don't want it manipulated, adapted, evolved, used in very specific ways even at the system level.

是啊。

Yeah.

再说一次，比如Rock现在在Ella Marina上排名第二，仅次于Gemini 3 Pro。

And again, like, Rock is now number two on Ella Marina after Gemini three Pro.

所以显然，他们在这方面做对了什么。

So clearly, they're doing something right there.

我注意到的一点是，他们最新版本中，实际上谄媚程度反而上升了。

And the one thing I saw was that their latest version, actually, the SYKFANCY goes up.

我的意思是，这可能只是他们试图打造一款更受欢迎、更具粘性的产品。

And it could be I mean, it could just be this attempt for them to, like, create a stickier product that people like more.

当然。

And Of course.

人们确实对'病态时尚'有反应。

People definitely respond to the sicko fancy.

人们热爱'病态时尚'。

People love sicko fancy.

没错。

Yeah.

说得好，Ron John。

Great point, Ron John.

你提出了一个很棒的观点，Alex。

That's a great point you made, Alex.

让我们进一步探讨这个问题。

Let's dig into that further.

你想要一份3.3部分的表格来概述'病态时尚'的历史吗？

Would you like a 3.3 part table outlining the history of sicko fancy?

我想要。

I would.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

那是我们的

That's our

ChattyPT模仿秀就在那儿。

ChattyPT impression right there.

是啊。

Yeah.

不过ChattyPT已经收敛很多了。

Although ChattyPT has gotten a lot less.

其实我觉得最新更新让它变得更好了。

I actually think the latest updates to have made it better.

它不再那么爱说'让我给你做个表格'之类的话了。

It's gotten a lot less like, let me make you a table.

我还是收到很多表格。

I still got a lot of tables.

一大堆表格。

A of tables.