Bitcoin Audible - 阅读_904 - 2014年的Op_Return之战 封面

阅读_904 - 2014年的Op_Return之战

Read_904 - The Op_Return Wars of 2014

本集简介

上述因素确实产生了影响,但在我们看来,其影响常被高估。最关键的因素是文化。一些比特币支持者和开发者纯粹不希望这类活动出现在比特币区块链上,他们成功地劝阻了这种行为。 ~ BitMEX研究 是比特币的文化——而非其代码——将DApp推向了以太坊吗?我阅读了“OP_RETURN之争”的历史,随后深入探讨了激励机制、内存池策略及过滤机制:我们是在捍卫健全货币,还是仅仅以新标签招致更聪明的垃圾信息? 查看原文《2014年的OP_Return之争——DApp与比特币交易之辩》by BitMEX研究(链接:https://blog.bitmex.com/dapps-or-only-bitcoin-transactions-the-2014-debate/) 看看我们出色的赞助商! Ledn:需要法币但不想出售比特币?Ledn提供无需信用检查、还款灵活且快速到账(通常24小时内)的比特币担保贷款。业务覆盖100多个国家,贷款总额超100亿美元,并保持透明的储备证明,是您释放流动性而不放弃比特币的可靠选择。(链接:https://learn.ledn.io/audible) HRF:人权基金会是一个无党派非营利组织,致力于在全球范围内促进和保护人权,尤其关注封闭社会。立即订阅HRF的《财务自由通讯》。(链接:https://mailchi.mp/hrf.org/financial-freedom-newsletter) OFF:奥斯陆自由论坛是人权基金会(HRF)举办的全球人权盛会,汇聚来自 activism、新闻、科技等领域的呼声。通过有力的故事与协作,OFF推动全球自由与人类潜能发展。明年六月,期待您的参与。(链接:https://oslofreedomforum.com/) Pubky:Pubky正在构建下一代网络,一个旨在将控制权交还用户手中的去中心化系统。通过拥有身份和数据所有权,摆脱审查、算法操控与封闭花园。立即探索Pubky网络,成为算法本身。别忘了在此处找到我的Pubky ID:pk:5d7thwzkxx5mz6gk1f19wfyykr6nrwzaxri3io7ahejg1z74qngo。(链接:https://pubky.org) Chroma:Chroma致力于通过尖端光疗设备与性能眼镜提升人类表现与福祉。其使命是优化身心状态,释放健康、认知功能与体能表现的巅峰潜能。使用代码BITCOINAUDIBLE可享订单9折优惠。(链接:https://getchroma.co/?ref=BitcoinAudible) 主持人链接 ⁠Nostr上的Guy⁠(链接:http://tinyurl.com/2xc96ney) ⁠X上的Guy⁠(链接:https://twitter.com/theguyswann) Instagram上的Guy(链接:https://www.instagram.com/theguyswann) TikTok上的Guy(链接:https://www.tiktok.com/@theguyswann) YouTube上的Guy(链接:https://www.youtube.com/@theguyswann) ⁠X上的比特币可听⁠(链接:https://twitter.com/BitcoinAudible) Keet上的Guy Swann网络广播室(链接:https://tinyurl.com/3na6v839)

双语字幕

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为什么像分布式交易所这样的DApp通常建立在以太坊而非比特币上?

Why are DApps such as distributed exchanges typically on Ethereum rather than Bitcoin?

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毕竟,在比特币上构建分布式交易所、命名系统或替代代币等DApp确实是可行的。

After all, it's certainly possible to build DApps such as distributed exchanges, naming systems or alternative tokens on top of Bitcoin.

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这当然有几个原因,比如:一)以太坊拥有更灵活的原生脚本语言,使得构建DApp更容易;二)以太坊更快的出块时间,使DApp用户体验更友好;三)比特币选择了比以太坊更保守的区块大小限制,导致比特币上可能产生更高的手续费。

There are of course several reasons for this, such as: one) Ethereum's more flexible native scripting language, making it easier to build DApps two) Ethereum's faster block time, making DApps more user friendly or three) Bitcoin choosing a more conservative block size constraint than Ethereum, resulting in potentially higher fees on Bitcoin.

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以上因素确实都有影响,但在我们看来,它们的影响经常被夸大。

All of the above did have an impact, however their impact is often overstated in our view.

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最重要的因素是文化差异。

The most significant factor is culture.

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一些比特币支持者和开发者根本不想在比特币区块链上看到这类活动,并成功劝阻了相关尝试。

Some Bitcoiners and Bitcoin developers simply did not want this type of activity on the Bitcoin blockchain and they successfully discouraged it.

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比特币领域的精华尽在Audible。

The best in Bitcoin made Audible.

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我是盖伊·斯旺,这里是Bitcoin Audible。

I am Guy Swan, and this is Bitcoin Audible.

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大家好,最近怎么样?

What is up, guys?

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欢迎回到Bitcoin Audible。

Welcome back to Bitcoin Audible.

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我是盖伊·斯旺,一个比你认识的所有人都阅读了更多比特币相关内容的家伙。

I am Guy Swan, the guy who has read more about Bitcoin than anybody else you know.

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抱歉在今天的节目中。

Sorry in today's episode.

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如果你能听到钉枪的声音,现在可能就能听到。

If you can hear nail guns going off, you can probably hear it right now.

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我试着在编辑和录音时避开这些噪音,但他们正在扩建施工,进展顺利,所以我绝对不会让他们停下来。

And I try I'm trying to edit and record around it, but they are adding on the extension and progress is being made, so I will absolutely not tell them to stop.

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因此你可能会听到些背景噪音,而我实在无法处理这个问题,同时还要确保今天的工作能完成。

But because of that, you might hear a little bit of background noise, and I won't be able to, I will really not be able to do anything about it and actually still get work done work done today.

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不过我们本期节目很精彩。

But we have a good episode.

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我们准备了一篇非常棒的文章。

We have a really great read.

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我的立场很明确——关于过滤器和操作返回这些概念,我的观点已经表达得很清楚了。

So my stand I mean, I've I've made very clear how I think about the idea of filters and op return, all of this stuff.

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其实我想特别提一下这件事。

And I do feel like actually, just mention this.

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今早我和约翰·卡瓦略做了期节目,我们简要讨论了这个话题,因为它实在太应景了。

We had a I had a show this morning with John Carvalho, which we briefly talked about that just because it's such a relevant topic.

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我认为他提出了一些非常棒的观点,而且他实际上没有明确支持任何一方立场。

And I actually think he had some really great points, and he didn't he'd actually didn't say one way or the other on the issue.

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他说争论这个问题其实比选择任何路径造成的损害更糟糕。

He said basically arguing about it is actually worse than the damage done by going either path.

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但他的观点并非没有道理。

But he he didn't have a bad point.

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他提出了个值得思考的有趣观点。

He he had an interesting point that was worth considering.

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但我觉得特别有意思的是,最近有人翻出了彼得·韦拉在2013或2014年对此事的评论,他谈到增加OP_RETURN功能或扩大其数据容量本质上是对区块链的一种不当使用。

But one of the things that I thought was really interesting is recently somebody dug up a comment by Peter Wella from way back in 2013, 2014 on this issue, talking about how, like, adding in op return and and or expanding the amount of data that can go in op return is this is basically an undesirable use of the chain.

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我们讨论的是随意塞入数据的行为——人们甚至把NFT和JPEG文件都往里存,虽然这当时并非问题核心,但显然是种普遍认知方式。

And that we're talking about just sticking arbitrary data in, people literally putting in NFTs and JPEGs, which sort of at the time wasn't the core of the issue, but it was obviously a very prevalent way to think about it.

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当时人们确实承认这是一种应用场景。

Like, it was it was recognized that this was a use case.

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而且我觉得他总结得特别好,没有任何戏剧化表达,也没有掺杂任何情感或哲学立场。

And, one of the thing I thought that he summed it up so well without any drama or any, like, emotional or philosophical thing on either side.

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就是非常简单地指出:事情很可能就是这样被看待的,以及会带来什么后果。

Just a very simple, this is just how it's likely to be seen and what the consequences are.

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这显示出对社会经济结果——更准确说是激励结果而非纯技术层面所谓'技术正确'——惊人的认知度。我认为当前巨大分歧的关键就在于,有些人坚持技术论证是唯一重要的,甚至提及其他因素都毫无意义。

And it showed a shocking amount of recognition to the social and economic outcomes, the kind of incentives outcome rather than the pure technical sense as to what is quote unquote technically accurate, which I think is a huge part of the unbelievable divide here is that people there's there's literally a side that thinks the technical argument is the only thing that matters and even mentioning or suggesting anything else is is just irrelevant.

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我个人认为这种观点完全错误,比特币周边有很多非纯技术性的因素。

And I think I personally think that's an entirely incorrect view is there's a lot around Bitcoin that is not purely technical.

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虽然也有观点认为其他共识最终都会因无法扩展而崩溃,最后剩下的只有技术因素。

Though, there could be an argument to be made that eventually, all of the other consensus is going to break down anyway because it doesn't scale, and at the end, we're only left with the technical.

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但我觉得事情也没那么简单,因为这个系统本质上依赖激励机制。

But I don't think that's quite so simple either because we essentially, the system relies on a an incentive structure.

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对吧?

Right?

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矿工没有动力去破坏给他们带来收益的协议。

Is that miners are not incentivized to destroy their own protocol, the the protocol that is paying them.

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不过我不想过多陷入争论细节或站队问题。

But I don't wanna get too much into the weeds of an argument or putting it on one side or the other.

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我的观点是,当我感到不确定或存在激烈争论时,当问题关乎其存在性还是无关紧要时,我发现这往往意味着有更多值得深挖和阅读的内容。尽可能学习一切,并公开讨论和倾听各方观点,才是真正取得进展的唯一途径。

My point is that if I feel unsure or there's a really aggressive and vicious debate going on about, and the question is whether or not it's existential or it doesn't matter, I've always found that that means there's more to dig, there's more to read, that learning every single thing you can, and openly addressing and listening to both or any side or any take on it is the only way to actually get anywhere.

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而这篇来自BitMEX研究团队几年前的报告,确实在某种程度上明确暗示了一个方向。

And this article from BitMEX Research from a few years ago is actually it it kind of it definitely hints toward one direction.

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它明确暗示当前数据状况良好,我们应当能够妥善处理等等。

It definitely hints toward the current, like, data is okay and we should just be able to deal with it properly, etcetera.

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我觉得这就是他们试图保持所谓'中立'的方式,但感觉这就是他们的倾向。

Like, I I think that's the way they try to kind of be quote unquote unbiased, but it feels like that's the way they're going.

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但我觉得有趣的是,这篇文章完全可以被解读为支持任何一方。

But what's funny to me and what I find interesting about this is that this could be entirely taken either either way.

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某种意义上,这可以证明过滤器如何运作,为什么社交层很重要,以及投资和开发这些工具的经济动机为何重要。

In a sense that this could be this is evidence of just how filters work and why the social layer matters and why the economic incentives of investing and building these tools matter.

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我不确定这是否是文章的初衷,但值得深入探讨这篇文章两个不同方向的潜在影响。

And I'm not sure that was the intended purpose of the article, but I think it's worth digging into both of this, the implications of both different directions of this article in particular.

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这关乎2014年发生的所谓'OP_RETURN战争'——虽然不一定是战争,但在OP_RETURN字段存在大量争议性数据时有过很多争论。他们确实说对了,这是比特币发展方向历史上的关键节点。

And this is about what happened in 2014 and the quote unquote Op Return Wars, which not necessarily is op return wars that, like, there were a lot of, like, arbitrary data in op return periods where there were arguments about it, but they are certainly right that this was a relevant moment in the history of which direction Bitcoin took.

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这个铺垫已经足够,我们马上就会进入文章内容。

So that's well enough lead in, and we'll get into the article in just a second.

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特别感谢Ledn(l e d n.io)提供的比特币抵押贷款服务。

A shout out to Ledn, l e d n, dot I o for Bitcoin backed loans.

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这是你无需出售比特币就能获得法币的方式。

This is how you can get fiat out of your Bitcoin without selling it.

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我认为最佳使用场景是当你持有稳健投资时。

I think the best use case for this is if you have a solid investment.

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如果你手上有能确定收益的投资,那你应该明白这些收益永远无法超越比特币,但你可以用它来抵消贷款利息。

If you have something that you know you're going to make a certain return, well, you also know that return will never beat Bitcoin, but you can beat an interest rate for a loan.

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但通过类似Ledin的服务,你既能继续持有比特币。

But with something like Ledin, you get to keep owning the Bitcoin.

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去了解一下吧。

Check them out.

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对此做好调研。

Do your research on this.

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要知道,务必细读条款细则,清楚自己将承担的风险。

You know, make sure you read the fine print and you know the risk that you're you're getting into here.

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但对于不想出售比特币又想使用其价值的人来说,这项服务非常宝贵。

But this is a really valuable service for people who want to use their Bitcoin without selling it.

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另外也推荐Synonym和PubKey,网址pubky.app。

Also, check out Synonym and PubKey, pubky.app.

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他们开发了一套协议工具,将托管服务与信息源分离,打破网络中的信息孤岛和封闭生态。

They have built a set of protocol tools to separate the hosting and the source of truth and information from the servers themselves to basically break down all of the silos and walled gardens of the web.

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如果你是开发者却还没认真研究过这些工具,现在必须行动了。

If you are a developer and you haven't seriously looked at these tools, you got to.

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具体链接详见节目说明。

Link in details around down in the show notes.

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Get Chroma专注光健康,调节昼夜节律——我每晚8点后控制蓝光照射,这对睡眠质量和精力水平产生了显著改善。

Get Chroma is all about light health, getting your circadian rhythm right, controlling my blue light after about 08:00 at night has actually made a massive difference in like my sleep and energy levels.

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我强烈推荐。

I highly recommend it.

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使用代码Bitcoin Audible可享受10%折扣。

And there's a 10% discount with code Bitcoin Audible.

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最后,要特别感谢HRF(人权基金会)。

And lastly, a massive shout out to the HRF.

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他们的奥斯陆自由论坛真是场精彩绝伦的活动。

Their Oslo Freedom Forum is such an amazing event.

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你可以购买门票。

You can get tickets.

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节目说明里有链接,还有他们出色的《财务自由报告》新闻通讯。

There's a link down in the show notes as well as their amazing newsletter, the Financial Freedom Report.

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务必订阅。

Definitely subscribe.

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这里报道的是主流媒体绝不会涉及的——关于真正自由的新闻、政治斗争以及捍卫自由的工具。

It is the news about genuine freedom, the politics, the struggle, and the tools to defend it that you will never get from mainstream media.

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所有这些你都能在描述区找到。

All of this you will find right down in the description.

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好了。

Alright.

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接下来我们进入今天的文章,之后我会用简短的个人解读来分析为何我认为这篇内容对该主题极具探讨价值。

With that, let's get into today's article, and we will follow it with a short guy's take to break down how I think about this and why I think this is a valuable piece to dig into for this particular topic.

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文章标题是《2014年OP_RETURN之战:DApps与比特币交易》,由BitMEX研究院于2022年7月12日发布。

And it's titled The Op Return Wars of 2014, DApps versus Bitcoin transactions by BitMEX Research, 07/12/2022.

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摘要。

Abstract.

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本文探讨了为何DApp通常基于以太坊而非比特币开发,这要追溯到2014年3月。

In this piece, we explore why DApps are typically built on Ethereum rather than Bitcoin, which takes us all the way back to March 2014.

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我们研究了一场关于DApp协议Counterparty是否及如何利用比特币区块链的辩论。

We examine a debate about whether and how a DApp protocol called counterparty should use Bitcoin's blockchain.

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这段历史有时被称为'OP_RETURN战争'。

This was sometimes called the OpReturn Wars.

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我们将阐述比特币中OP_RETURN功能与侧链的使用历史。

We explain the history of OpReturn usage and sidechains in Bitcoin.

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最后我们提出论点:无论是否认同,2014年比特币开发社区的固有文化,以及对比特币交易数据用于其他用例的负面态度,连同其他因素共同促使这些DApp开发者转向了以太坊等替代系统。

We conclude by arguing, whether one likes it or not, that it was the culture in the Bitcoin development community in 2014 and the negative view of using Bitcoin transaction data for alternative use cases which played a major role in pushing developers of these dApps onto alternative systems like Ethereum along with other factors.

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概述 我们常被问及:为何分布式交易所等DApp通常选择以太坊而非比特币?

Overview We have often been asked the question: Why are DApps such as distributed exchanges typically on Ethereum rather than Bitcoin?

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毕竟在比特币上构建分布式交易所、命名系统或代币等DApp确实是可行的。

After all, it is certainly possible to build DApps such as distributed exchanges, naming systems or alternative tokens on top of Bitcoin.

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原因当然包括:1)以太坊更灵活的脚本语言便于DApp开发 2)以太坊更快的出块时间提升DApp用户体验 3)比特币选择比以太坊更保守的区块大小限制,可能导致更高手续费。

There are of course several reasons for this such as: one) Ethereum's more flexible native scripting language making it easier to build DApps two) Ethereum's faster block time making DApps more user friendly or three) Bitcoin choosing a more conservative block size constraint than Ethereum, resulting in potentially higher fees on Bitcoin.

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上述因素确实都有影响,但我们认为其影响常被夸大。

All of the above did have an impact, however their impact is often overstated in our view.

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最关键的因素是文化差异。

The most significant factor is culture.

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部分比特币支持者和开发者根本不愿看到此类活动出现在比特币区块链上,并成功阻止了它们。

Some Bitcoiners and Bitcoin developers simply did not want this type of activity on the Bitcoin blockchain and they successfully discouraged it.

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这一现象主要发生在2014年3月前后,本文将重点解析该时期的历史事件。

This seems to have primarily occurred in around March 2014 and what happened in that period is the subject of this piece.

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与此同时,以太坊等其他区块链的推广者可能利用并夸大了比特币开发者的这一明显立场,以帮助他们的新链获得关注。

At the same time, promoters of other chains such as Ethereum may have exploited and exaggerated this apparent stance from the Bitcoin developers to help their new chains gain traction.

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正如我们在2020年9月的报告中提到的,Counterparty协议于2014年初推出。

The Counterparty Protocol As we mentioned in our September 2020 report, towards the start of 2014, Counterparty launched.

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Counterparty是建立在比特币之上的协议层,支持新代币创建以及在分布式交易所交易这些代币等功能。

Counterparty is a protocol layer on top of Bitcoin that enables features such as new token creation and the trading of these tokens on a distributed exchange.

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该系统通过利用比特币交易数据的一部分,在Counterparty协议中实现诸如创建代币、发送代币或在分布式交易所对代币进行市场报价等功能。

The system works by using parts of Bitcoin transaction data and using this in the counterparty protocol as a function, such as creating a token, sending a token, or a market bid on a token on a distributed exchange.

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更简洁地说,最初Counterparty使用比特币操作码OP_CHECKMULTISIG将相关数据写入比特币区块链。

More concisely, at the start, Counterparty used the Bitcoin opcode OP Check Multisig to include Counterparty related data into the Bitcoin blockchain.

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该操作码本应用于验证支付到脚本哈希(P2SH)多重签名交易的签名。

This opcode was supposed to be used to verify the signature for a Pay to Script Hash (P2SH) multi signature transaction.

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这里可以看到2014年7月的一个Counterparty交易示例。

An example of a counterparty transaction from July 2014 can be seen here.

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该交易将比特币发送回原地址,并包含三个额外输出,其输出脚本是与Counterparty协议相关的数据。

The transaction sends Bitcoin back to the address it came from and also has three additional outputs, where the output scripts are data related to the counterparty protocol.

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在这个案例中,是创建了一个名为Ticket的新代币。

In this case it was the creation of a new token called Ticket.

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使用OP_CHECKMULTISIG可以被视为一种取巧手段,因为这并非该操作码的设计初衷。

Using OpCheck Multisig can be thought of as a hack because this was not the intended use of the opcode.

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Counterparty现在使用比特币的OP_RETURN操作码存储数据,这在一定程度上更符合开发者的本意。

Counterparty now uses Bitcoin's OpReturn opcode to store data, which is more in line with what developers intended to some extent.

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例如,请参阅这个使用OP_RETURN的较新Counterparty交易。

For example, please see this more recent counterparty transaction which uses OpReturn.

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2014年初,Counterparty平台周围涌现了大量实验性开发活动、创新尝试和热烈讨论,当时它在与MasterCoin平台的竞争中处于领先地位。

In early twenty fourteen, there was considerable experimentation, developer activity, innovation and excitement around Counterparty, which had the lead over a rival platform called MasterCoin.

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什么是Op Return?

What is Op Return?

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Op Return是比特币中一种可证明无法花费的交易输出。

Op Return is a transaction output in Bitcoin that is provably unspendable.

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该功能可用于销毁比特币或在比特币区块链上存储任意数据。

The function can be used to burn Bitcoin or store arbitrary data in the Bitcoin blockchain.

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由于这些数据不属于UTXO集合,通过这种方式存储数据被认为有助于比特币扩容,因为执行剪枝操作的节点无需存储opreturn数据。

Since the data is not part of the UTXO set, storing data this way is said to help scale Bitcoin, as nodes that engage in pruning do not need to store opreturn data.

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2013年5月,有人在以下交易中利用了这一特性。

In May 2013 somebody took advantage of this feature in the following transaction.

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该交易的opreturn输出包含了1987年Rick Astley的歌曲《Never Gonna Give You Up》的歌词,这首歌与Rick Rolling网络迷因相关。

The op return output in this transaction contains the lyrics to the 1987 song Never Gonna Give You Up by Rick Astley, the song related to the Rick Rolling meme.

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2014年之前,包含opreturn的交易属于非标准交易,普通比特币节点不会转发。

Prior to 2014, transactions containing an op return were non standard and not relayed by ordinary Bitcoin nodes.

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但如果矿工打包这些交易,它们仍会被视为有效。

However, if a miner included those transactions, they were considered as valid.

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2014年3月发布的Bitcoin Core 0.9.0将OpReturn功能列为标准交易类型,这类交易从此会被默认转发。

In March 2014, Bitcoin Core 0.9.0 was released with the OpReturn feature included as a standard transaction type, therefore the transactions would be relayed by default.

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当时的版本说明特别强调:本次更新并非对区块链存储数据的认可。

The release notes at the time said the following: This change is not an endorsement of storing data in the blockchain.

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opreturn变更创建了可证明可剪枝的输出,避免了将图像等任意数据作为永久不可花费的交易输出存储,从而缓解比特币UTXO数据库膨胀的问题。

The opreturn change creates a provably prunable output to avoid data storage schemes that were storing arbitrary data such as image as forever unspendable transaction outputs, bloating Bitcoin's UTXO database.

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在区块链中存储任意数据仍是个糟糕的主意,将非货币数据存储在其他地方成本更低且效率更高。

Storing arbitrary data in the blockchain is still a bad idea it is less costly and far more efficient to store non currency data elsewhere.

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比特币核心0.9.0版本仅会转发OP_RETURN不超过40字节的交易。

Bitcoin Core 0.9.0 would only relay transactions with an op return of 40 bytes or less.

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若数据超过此限制,交易虽仍有效但不会被转发。

If the data was larger than this, it was still a valid transaction, but not relayed.

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最初限制设定为80字节,但经过多次讨论后,开发者最终确定为40字节。

The limit was originally intended to be 80 bytes, however after much discussion, the developers settled on 40 bytes.

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需要明确的是,比特币核心已发布版本中的OP_RETURN转发限制从未降低过。

To be clear, the op return relay limit in a released version of Bitcoin Core never declined.

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2015年2月,比特币核心0.11.0版本最终将转发上限提升至80字节。

In February 2015, Bitcoin Core 0.11.0 finally increased the relay limit to 80 bytes.

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2016年1月,比特币核心0.12.0版本再次将限制提高到83字节,即现行标准。

In January 2016, in Bitcoin Core 0.12.0, the limit was increased again to 83 bytes, the limit we have today.

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虽然这3字节的提升仅是由于计算方式变更(将操作码本身计入),严格来说并非真正的限额增加。

Although this three byte increase was merely a change in how the counting worked to include the opcodes themselves, so it is not a quote real increase.

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这意味着如今若想进行OP_RETURN超过80字节的交易,必须自行挖矿或直接发送给矿工处理。

This means that if one wants a transaction with an opreturn output of over 80 bytes today, one has to mine it themselves or send it directly to a miner.

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目前对OP_RETURN大小并无实质性的共识限制。

There is no real consensus limit on the size of OpReturn.

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但脚本公钥存在10,000字节的限制,不过可能存在规避方法。

There is, however, a script pub key limit of 10,000 bytes, but it may be possible to get around this.

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OP_RETURN战争始末:2014年3月20日,比特币当时的核心贡献者Jeff Garzik开始在BitcoinTalk论坛的Counterparty主题下发帖。

The OpReturn Wars On 03/20/2014, one of Bitcoin's main contributors at the time, Jeff Garzik, started posting on the counterparty thread on the BitcoinTalk forum.

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杰夫当时在批评对手方对区块链空间的使用方式。

Jeff was criticizing the use of blockchain space by counterparty.

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迄今为止,我还没见过哪个区块链数据转储方案不能被简单的哈希算法安全替代。

To date I have not seen a blockchain data dumping scheme that cannot be securely replaced with a simple hash.

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你根本不需要把数据存储在区块链上。

You don't need to store data in the blockchain.

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这纯粹是智力上的懒惰。

That is purely intellectual laziness.

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对哈希数据进行时间戳处理同样安全且更高效。

Time stamping hash data is just as secure while more efficient.

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此外,二级链完全可以被证明与比特币挂钩。

Furthermore, a secondary chain can be provably pegged to Bitcoin.

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杰夫接着说,多重签名检查功能严格来说是为EC DSA公钥设计的,不是用来处理任意数据的。

Jeff went on to say, Check Multisig is quite literally intended for EC DSA public keys, not arbitrary data.

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当某项操作被用于非设计初衷的用途时,产生负面后果——可能是意料之外或未知的——这并不令人惊讶。

It should be no surprise that using an operation for something other than its intended purpose has negative, perhaps unintended or unknown consequences.

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对手方的交易并不符合比特币协议。

Counterparty transactions are not according to the Bitcoin protocol.

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它们能蒙混过关,是因为协议从未预料到该功能会被这样使用。

They slip through because it never expected that the feature would be used in that way.

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有人可能觉得杰夫持这种观点很奇怪,因为他在2017年似乎是大区块支持者,而这种对区块空间保守使用的观点与大区块理念相矛盾。

One may think it's odd that Jeff had this view, given that in 2017 he appeared to be a large blocker, and that this view about the conservative use of block space does not appear to reconcile with the large block view.

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然而在2014年,这种表面矛盾完全不存在。

However, this apparent contradiction did not appear at all in 2014.

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杰夫当时的观点在某种程度上得到了当时许多活跃开发者的认同,包括后来成为主要阻碍者的那些人。

Jeff's view at the time was shared to some extent by many of the active developers at the time, including the ones which later became large blockers.

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就我们所能确定的而言,人们对区块大小限制的看法与这个问题之间根本不存在简单的对应关系。

As far as we can tell, there was no simple mapping at all between one's view on the block size limit and this issue.

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杰夫当时是一位备受尊敬的开发者,这篇文章对对方开发者和用户来说是个相当大的顾虑。

Jeff was a highly respected developer at the time, and this post was a considerable concern for the counterparty developers and users.

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一位化名为比特币实物信托的对方开发者这样回应杰夫:你说得完全正确。

A counterparty developer with a pseudonym Bitcoin Tangible Trust responded to Jeff as follows: You're absolutely right.

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你不需要将数据存储在区块链中。

You don't need to store data in the blockchain.

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对哈希数据进行时间戳记录同样安全且更高效。

Timestamping hash data is just as secure while more efficient.

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二级链可以通过证明与比特币挂钩。

A secondary chain can be provably pegged to Bitcoin.

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然而,根据对方联合创始人兼首席开发者幻影怪客的说法,对方正在使用每三个多重签名交易中的256字节来存储区块链数据。

However, counterparty is storing data in the blockchain using two fifty six bytes in each one of three multisig transactions as per Phantom Freaks, the counterparty co founder and lead developer.

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见下文注释。

Note below.

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此外,所有这些多重签名交易都是由矿工处理的。

Additionally, all these multisig transactions are processed by the miners.

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该开发者继续批评比特币开发者计划将Opperturn限制为仅40字节而非80字节。

The developer continued by criticizing the Bitcoin developer's plan to limit Opperturn to just 40 bytes rather than 80.

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引用:如果OpreTurn的目的是阻止或限制多重签名行为,从而减少区块链膨胀,那么我担心通过将OpreTurn的大小从80字节减少到40字节,你们无意中使多重签名对所有元协议更具吸引力,而使操作返回的吸引力降低。

Quote: If OpreTurn was meant to stop or curtail the multisig behavior and hereby reduce blockchain bloat, then I fear by reducing the size of OpreTurn from 80 to 40 bytes, you've inadvertently made multisig more attractive to all the meta protocols, and you've made op return less attractive.

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这位化名为Phantom Freak的首席对手方开发者兼联合创始人插话道。

The lead counterparty developer and co founder who went by Phantom Freak chimed in.

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引用原话:'这个想法是我们在第二条区块链中存储数据,并将这些时间戳数据的哈希值存入比特币区块链,这些哈希值也将小于40字节。'

Quote, the idea is that we store the data in a second blockchain and put the hashes of that time stamped data in Bitcoin, which hashes would also be less than 40 bytes.

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我们之所以没有这样做,并非如引号内所言是'智力懒惰',而是实现复杂度的问题。

The reason we did not do something like that is not a matter of intellectual laziness, quote unquote, but rather of implementation complexity.

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Counterparty并非计算机科学领域的项目。

Counterparty is not a project in computer science.

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它的设计尽可能简单,以追求效益和开发速度。

It is designed to be as simple as possible, for the benefits and development speed.

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即使我们不得不将数据存储在多重签名输出而非过小的OP_RETURN输出中,在这个领域里,'更差反而更好'。

Even if we have to store our data in multisig outputs rather than the too small opreturn outputs, worse is definitely better in this space.

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次日Jeff回应道:'这叫搭便车'。

The next day, Jeff responded: It is called a free ride.

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鉴于比特币区块链90%以上的应用都是货币用途,将全节点当作哑数据存储终端使用,就是在滥用这个全由志愿者支撑的网络资源。

Given that the overwhelming majority (over 90% application for the Bitcoin blockchain is currency use, using full nodes as dumb data storage terminals is simply abusing an all volunteer network resource.

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网络会复制交易数据,何不跟着搭个便车呢?

The network replicates transaction data, so why not come along for a free ride?

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Mastercoin和Counterparty没有与现有社区沟通,就直接打开开关开始将比特币P2P节点当作非自愿的数据存储库使用,而未花费交易输出本就不是为任意数据存储设计的。

Rather than engage the existing community, Mastercoin and Counterparty simply flipped an on switch and started using Bitcoin peer to peer nodes as unwanted data stores, and unspent transaction output was never meant to be used as arbitrary data storage.

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能够这样滥用的事实,并不意味着这种做法正确、高效或是最佳解决方案。

The fact that it can be abused as such does not make it right or remotely efficient or the best solution.

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UTXO(未花费交易输出)数据库是整个网络的快速访问数据库。

The UTXO, or unspent transaction output, database is the entire network's fast access database.

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每个节点都需要尽可能小的数据库,以实现网络交易的最佳处理。

Every single node needs that database to be as small as possible for best processing of network transactions.

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将任意数据编码到未花费输出中,简单明了地说就是全网范围的滥用行为。

Encoding arbitrary data into unspent outputs is network wide abuse, plain and simple.

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整个网络都在为此承担成本。

The entire network bears the cost.

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由于Jeff在社区内的高声望,Counterparty社区的大多数人似乎都积极希望参与解决这个问题。

Due to Jeff's high standing within the community, most people in the counterparty community seemed keen to engage and resolve the issue.

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例如,Bitcoin Tangible Trust回应说:'感谢分享你的想法,Jeff。'

For instance, Bitcoin Tangible Trust responded by saying, Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Jeff.

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那么,你愿意帮助我们开始与现有的比特币核心开发社区接触吗?

So, will you help us start engaging with the existing Bitcoin Core Dev community?

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作为负责任的合作伙伴符合Counterparty的利益,因为我们需要比特币区块链才能生存。

It's in counterparties' interest to act as a responsible partner as we need the Bitcoin blockchain if we are to survive.

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你能告诉我们如何开始就这些问题展开合作吗?

Will you let us know how we can start working together on these questions?

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另一位Counterparty开发者提出了另一点:'比特币协议有没有办法在不破坏其他功能的情况下阻止XCP的使用方式?'

Another counterparty developer brought up another point: Is there a way for the Bitcoin protocol to prevent the way XCP is using it without breaking anything else?

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如果比特币开发者无法阻止与Counterparty相关的交易,也许这种反对无关紧要,Counterparty可以继续未经许可地使用比特币。

If there is no way for Bitcoin developers to block the counterparty related transactions, perhaps this opposition didn't matter and counterparty could continue using Bitcoin without permission.

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比特币开发者兼当时矿池运营商Luke Dasher随后加入了辩论。

Bitcoin developer and at the time mining pool operator Luke Dasher then entered the debate.

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矿工本应过滤掉滥用行为。

The miners are supposed to filter out abuses.

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卢克·达舍尔随后提出,这类系统可以通过合并挖矿的侧链结构来构建,从而可能避免区块链膨胀问题。

Luke Dasher then suggested these kinds of systems could be built using merge mined sidechain type constructions, which may avoid the blockchain bloat.

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问题不在于新层次,而在于违背人们意愿强制推行。

The problem isn't new layers it's forcing things on people against their will.

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新层次可以基于自愿选择实施,既不会污染区块链,也不会强制非参与者存储数据。

New layers can be done on an opt in basis, without polluting the blockchain and forcing nonparticipants to store the data.

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卢克还被问及为何比特币开发者将OpReturn中继大小从最初提议的80字节限制缩减至40字节。

Luke was also asked why the Bitcoin developers reduced the intended OpReturn relay size down to 40 bytes compared to an 80 byte limit, which was originally proposed.

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卢克回应了以下三点:第一,太多人误以为OpReturn是设计来使用的功能。

Luke responded with the following three points: One, too many people were getting the impression that OpReturn was a feature meant to be used.

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它从来就不是为此设计的,只是作为『给窗户留条缝,这样有人闯入时我们就不用换玻璃』的权宜之计。

It was never intended as such, only a way to quote leave the windows unlocked so that we don't need to replace the glass when someone breaks in end quote.

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也就是说,是为了减轻滥用比特币行为造成的损害。

That is, to reduce the damage caused by people abusing Bitcoin.

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第二,

Two.

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40字节对于将数据绑定到交易的所有合法需求已经绰绰有余。

40 bytes is more than sufficient for all legitimate needs for tying data to a transaction.

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你可以用32字节存储哈希值,再加8字节作为某种唯一标识符——其实连这个也没必要。

You get 32 bytes for a hash plus eight bytes for some kind of unique identifier, which really isn't necessary either.

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第三,最初80字节的提案本意是容纳五个十二位哈希,但后来发现这并无必要。

And three, the original 80 byte proposal was intended to be for five twelve bit hashes, but this was determined to be unnecessary.

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卢克·达舍尔继续作了如下阐述。

Luke Dasher continued as follows.

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希望挖矿能回归去中心化,我们将看到对滥用和垃圾交易的容忍度降低,无论是OpReturn变种还是其他形式。

Hopefully, mining returns to being decentralized, we will see less toleration of abusive and spam transactions, whether the OpReturn variant or otherwise.

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如果有人确实存在需要将哈希与交易一起存储的有效用例,显然矿工们应该认真考虑开采这类交易。

Now if someone has a valid necessary use case for actually storing hashes with transactions, obviously that's a case miners should seriously consider mining.

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卢克当时的矿池也开始过滤掉与Counterparty相关的交易。

Luke's mining pool at the time also started filtering out counterparty related transactions.

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此时,Counterparty社区开始滋生恐惧和不确定性。

At this point, fear and uncertainty started to build in the counterparty community.

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他们需要opreturn保持80字节,否则将被迫继续使用opcheck多重签名操作码。

They needed opreturn to be 80 bytes, or they would be forced to keep using the opcheck multisig opcode.

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鉴于卢克的评论,opreturn似乎不太可能提升到80字节。

It did not seem likely that it would go up to 80 bytes given Luke's comments.

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除此之外,有人担心开发者可能会进一步降低限制,甚至可能将Counterparty踢出网络。

In addition to this, some feared the developers could even reduce the limit even further, potentially booting Counterparty off the network.

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比特币开发者对Counterparty似乎并不特别友好,因此有些人可能觉得继续使用比特币协议会很困难。

The Bitcoin developers did not seem especially friendly to Counterparty, and therefore some may have felt that it was likely to be difficult to continue to use the Bitcoin protocol.

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2014年3月25日,以太坊主要创始人Vitalik Buterin加入了讨论。

On 03/25/2014, Vitalik Buterin, the main founder of Ethereum, chimed in.

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他主张争论应更多围绕手续费展开,只要支付足够费用,交易就应该被合法包含。

He argued that the debate should be more around fees, and if you pay enough fees, then your transaction should be legitimately included.

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如今以太坊的手续费算法高度复杂,针对不同区块链用途设置了多种费用档位和费率,这本质上解决了opreturn问题。

Today Ethereum's fee algorithm is highly complex, with different fee buckets and rates for many different blockchain uses, which essentially solves the op return problem.

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有人可能会说比特币的隔离见证也在一定程度上缓解了这个问题。

One can argue that Segwit on Bitcoin also mitigates the problem to some extent.

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如果协议认为OpReturn之争是个大问题,那么在理想世界里,滥用这个概念根本就不会存在。

If the protocol thought that the OpReturn battle is such an issue, in an ideal world, the concept of abuse would not even exist.

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他说,费用应该是强制性的,并经过精心设计,以准确反映特定交易对网络造成的实际成本。

Fees would be mandatory and carefully structured to closely match the actual cost that a given transaction imposes on the network, he says.

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只要你能为你所做的事支付费用,那么你就应该被允许做这件事。

If you can pay the fees for what you're doing, then you should be able to do it.

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无需多问。

No questions asked.

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2014年3月27日,Counterparty改变了交易方式以绕过Luke Dasher的矿工过滤器。

On 03/27/2014, Counterparty changed the way it made transactions to get around Luke Dasher's mining filter.

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然而第二天Luke评论道:'好消息!'

However, the following day Luke commented that, quote, Great news!

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'不到五分钟就用一行代码添加了过滤这个垃圾的功能。'

Filter added to block this crap in less than five minutes and one line of code.

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Luke Dasher还将Counterparty比作一种滥用行为。

Luke Dasher also likened Counterparty to a form of abuse.

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这是滥用,因为你强迫他人违背自由意志下载和存储你的数据。

It's abuse because you're forcing others to download, store your data against their free choice.

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每个全节点都必须下载完整的区块链,无论是否可修剪。

Every full node must download the full blockchain, prunable or not.

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每个全节点都同意下载和存储金融交易数据。

Every full node has consented to download and store financial transactions.

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但并非每个全节点都同意存储其他任何内容。

Not every full node has consented to store anything else.

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这件事需要100%的共识,而不仅仅是部分人的同意。

You need a 100% consensus for this, not merely some subset, I.

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E,不是矿工也不是开发者,甚至不是多数人说了算。

E, not miners and not developers, or even a majority.

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此外,每个人都有权存储不在区块链上的数据。

Furthermore, everyone is free to store data that isn't in the blockchain.

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把这些数据强塞进区块链毫无意义,只会强迫那些不需要的人接受。

There's nothing to be gained by putting it in the blockchain except that you force it on others who don't want it.

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请解释这除了滥用权力还能是什么?

Explain how this is anything but abuse.

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对比特币开发者的愤怒。

Anger at Bitcoin developers.

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正如预料的那样,比特币开发者的关切最终引发了一些Counterparty开发者和用户的不满与愤怒。

As one might expect, the concern from Bitcoin developers was eventually met with frustration and anger from some counterparty developers and users.

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我们在下方摘录了他们的一些评论。

We have included some of their comments below.

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首先,一位名叫Porcupine的用户对Luke Dasher矿池屏蔽Counterparty交易的评论。

Firstly, from a user called Porcupine commenting on Luke Dasher's mining pool blocking counterparty transactions.

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太好了。

Great.

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开发者们非但没有负责任地寻求解决方案,反而在玩猫捉老鼠的游戏。

Instead of developers responsibly engaging towards finding a solution, you're promoting cat and mouse.

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你意识到你这是在践踏网络中立原则,试图用私人标准决定哪些交易该不该上链吗?

You realize that you're also saying fuck it to net neutrality and trying to take it into private hands with kind of transactions people should and shouldn't make on the blockchain?

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接下来是什么?

What's next?

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制裁你不喜欢的某些人?

Sanctions of certain individuals you don't like?

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制裁那些来自政府外交政策你不认可的国家的节点所广播的交易?

Sanctions for transactions broadcast from nodes in countries whose government's foreign policy you don't approve of?

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2014年3月21日,Porcupine继续说道:等一下。

On the 03/21/2014, Porcupine went on to say: Wait a minute.

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是什么时候决定每个节点都同意存储X类型数据而非Y类型数据的?

When was it decided that every node has consented to store X type of data and not Y type of data?

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也许我也不同意存储涉及黑钱、违禁药品和武器、人口贩卖等交易。

Maybe I also did not consent to store transactions for blondered money, illicit drugs and weapons, human slavery, etc.

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你基本上是在否定协议中立性,并决定协议应该和不应该被用来存储什么。

You're basically negating protocol neutrality and deciding what the protocol should and should not be used to store.

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更重要的是,你不是以第一人称发言,而是使用‘我们’这个代词,给人一种你代表所有矿工或协议用户整体发言的印象。

And more than that, you aren't speaking in first person but using the pronoun us, given the impression that you are speaking for all miners or protocol users as a whole.

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其他人对为什么Jeff和Luke有权比其他人更优先阻止某些用例表示担忧。

Others expressed concern about why Jeff and Luke had a right to block certain use cases over anyone else.

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我无法相信这种态度。

I can't believe this attitude.

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我不知道比特币有所有者。

I didn't know Bitcoin had owners.

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我以为我和大约一百万人都是所有者。

I thought I and about a million others were owners.

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Phantom Freak,Counterparty的联合创始人表示:首先,Counterparty交易属于金融交易。

Phantom Freak, the counterparty co founder, said, First of all, counterparty transactions are financial transactions.

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其次,每个全节点都同意下载并安装完整的比特币区块链,一点不少。

Second, every full node has consented to download and install the Bitcoin blockchain, no less.

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也就是说,这些交易完全符合比特币协议,Counterparty交易显然也是如此。

That is, transactions that accord to the Bitcoin protocol, which counterparty transactions obviously do.

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中本聪在创世区块里嵌入了政治信息,这可是明摆着的事实。

Satoshi embedded a political message in the genesis block, for Christ's sake.

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你对比特币可能用途的看法比其他人狭隘得多。

You have a much narrower view of the possible use cases for Bitcoin than do others.

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他/她继续说道:比特币现在实现的许多功能最初都并非设计初衷。

He or she continued, Bitcoin does lots of things that it was not originally intended to do.

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是的,我们非常希望能采用比现有方案更优雅的解决方案。

Yes, we'd greatly prefer to use a more elegant solution than what we have now.

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Counterparty最初设计是使用OpReturn输出来存储所有消息数据,我认为这种方式非常优雅,对区块链的影响微乎其微。

Counterparty was originally designed to use the OpReturn output to store all of its message data, which I feel is very elegant and leaves a minimal impact on the blockchain.

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我们所有的消息格式都是围绕Gavin在比特币官方博客公布的80字节限制来规划的。

We planned all of our message formats around the 80 byte limit announced by Gavin on the official Bitcoin blog.

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我们使用多重签名输出纯属无奈之举。

We only use multisig outputs because we have no other choice.

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我们并不想扩展比特币协议。

We don't want to extend the Bitcoin protocol.

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我们希望在协议框架内,以最简单直接的方式实现功能,从而获得稳定性、安全性等方面的优势。

We want to do something entirely within it and as simply and as directly as possible for the benefits to stability, security, etc.

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重申一次,我们只在区块链中存储金融交易数据,并且我们为所使用的空间付费。

Again, we only store financial transactions in the blockchain, and we are paying for the space that we're using.

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对于全节点来说,存储Opretern输出中的金融交易数据并不比其他类型数据更麻烦。

Financial transactions in Opretern outputs aren't any more painful for a full node to store than anything else.

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另一个叫Bitwiz的用户说:如果你不想存储它,那就别存。

Another user called Bitwiz said: If you don't want to store it, don't.

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相当简单。

Fairly simple.

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别用比特币。

Don't use Bitcoin.

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别下载区块链。

Don't download the blockchain.

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你就彻底自由了。

You're scot free.

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不过,我的观点是比特币的功能不仅限于交易。

However, my consent means that I believe Bitcoin has more functionality than just for transactions.

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鉴于没有人拥有它且存在op return功能,我不明白为什么仅仅因为你不愿存储这些数据(而存储与否本就是可自由选择的),就要废除这个功能。

And based on the fact that nobody owns it and there is an op return feature, I don't see why that functionality should be eradicated because you don't want to store the data which you already have a free choice on.

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引用另一个网友的话说:我实在无法理解为什么对手方交易不构成金融交易,也不明白为什么仅仅因为(比方说)一千个节点中有一个不愿意接受这些数据,就默认应该禁止它?

Quote another Anon lol said, I really cannot understand how a counterparty transaction would not constitute a financial transaction, nor can I understand the point of view that because, say, one node out of a thousand is not willing to accept this data, by default, it should be forbidden?

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在经历了Mt.

After the recent nightmare that was Mt.

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Gox事件这场噩梦,以及大量因将余额存储在中心化实体而导致的黑客攻击、盗窃、关闭和损失后,Counterparty似乎提出了一个去中心化、无需信任的解决方案。

Gox and huge amount of hacks, thefts, closures, and losses that came from storing your balance on centralized entities, it seems that Counterparty had come up with a solution that allowed a decentralized, trustless solution to this problem.

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BadDW说过,事实上,任何人都可以随时在区块链中存储任意数据。

BadDW said, The fact is, arbitrary data can be stored in the blockchain by anybody at any time.

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这一功能过去和现在都已被用于此目的。

It has been and is being used for this purpose already.

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每个运行比特币节点的人都应该知道这一点,如果不知道,那么在安装比特币QT时应该看到相关提示——如果有的话,我不记得看到过。

Everybody running a Bitcoin node should already know this, and if they aren't, it should be part of the notice that comes up when they install Bitcoin QT, if there is one, I don't recall seeing one.

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比特币交易可能只是简单的资金转移,也可能是一封情书,甚至是引爆炸弹的触发器。

Any Bitcoin transaction could just be a simple movement of funds, or it could be a love note, or it could be a trigger of setting off a bomb.

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消除这种可能性将扼杀比特币。

Eliminating this possibility would kill Bitcoin.

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毋庸置疑。

Period.

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他接着说道:计算史上许多最伟大的发展,乃至整个人类技术史上的重大突破,都源于人们为发明者未曾设想的用途找到了新用途。

And he went on to say: Many of the greatest developments in computing history, and indeed human technological history on the whole, are the result of people finding uses for things which were unintended by their inventors.

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值得庆幸的是,大多数发明者不会过度保护自己的发明而拒绝他人用于新领域。

Good thing that most inventors are not so protective of their inventions that they decline to let others use it for new things.

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那些固步自封的发明者很快就被时代淘汰了。

Those that did, found themselves surpassed quickly.

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从这些评论中可以明显看出,许多Counterparty用户和开发者对比特币开发者的立场感到惊讶和失望。

It is clear from these comments that many counterparty users and developers were surprised and disappointed by the stance from Bitcoin developers.

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尽管这个项目像Mastercoin一样继续存在,但无论如何,很可能有些开发者因此离开了比特币,转而在以太坊等其他区块链系统上构建自己的协议。

Although the project continued as did Mastercoin, it is likely that for better or for worse, some developers left Bitcoin as a result of this and and instead built their own protocols on other blockchain systems such as Ethereum.

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我们认为,2014年的这个时刻比其他任何时刻都更具决定性意义。

It is this 2014 moment that was in our view more significant than any other.

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然而,其他人可能有不同的看法。

However, others may have a different view.

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在关于OP_RETURN的整个辩论中,反对Counterparty和区块链膨胀的人通常会提到某种形式的联合挖矿侧链作为DApps的解决方案。

Merge mined sidechains Throughout the opreturn debate, opponents of counterparty and blockchain bloat typically mentioned some form of merged mined sidechains as a solution for DApps.

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实际上,据说中本聪曾支持这一路径,并在2010年12月曾提议将其用于域名系统。

Actually, Satoshi is said to have favored this path and is said to have supported it for a domain name system in December 2010.

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我认为BitDNS完全可以成为一个完全独立的网络和独立的区块链,同时与比特币共享算力。

I think it would be possible for BitDNS to be a completely separate network and separate blockchain, yet share CPU power with Bitcoin.

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唯一的重叠点在于让矿工能同时为两个网络寻找工作量证明。

The only overlap is to make it so miners can search for proof of work for both networks simultaneously.

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将这些DAP系统实现为侧链存在诸多困难,如今我们对这些缺陷的理解比2014年时更深入——当时许多人只是假设它们能运作。

There are many difficulties with implementing these DAP systems as sidechains, and our understanding of these weaknesses is better understood today than it was in 2014, when many people just assumed they could work.

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复杂性。

Complexity.

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最显著的缺陷之一是实现和构建侧链解决方案的复杂性。

One of the most significant weaknesses is the complexity in implementing and building sidechain solutions.

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在争夺协议先发优势和市场份额的竞赛中,这些项目没有时间构建侧链及与比特币的联合挖矿系统。

In a race to get the protocol out early and win market share, these projects did not have time to build a sidechain and the merge mining system with Bitcoin.

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作为原生资产的比特币 可能无法在侧链上实现非托管的比特币作为运营资产,因为无信任的双向锚定机制或许根本无法构建。

Bitcoin as a native asset It may not be possible to have non custodial Bitcoin as an operating asset on a side chain, because a trustless two way peg may not be possible to build.

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这对许多DApps来说是重大缺陷,例如那些想要在分布式交易所使用比特币作为主要交易对的场景。

This is a large weakness for many DApps who may for example want to use Bitcoin as the main trading pair in a distributed exchange.

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这一缺陷在2014年似乎未被充分认知,当时许多人只是想当然地认为它总能以某种方式运作。

This weakness did not appear to be well understood in 2014, with many people just assuming it could work somehow.

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有限的扩展性收益:使用侧链的益处可能因应用场景而异。

Limited Scaling Benefits The benefits of using a side chain may vary depending on the use case.

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例如,若想构建分布式交易所,每个报价、询价和撮合都可能需要主链的全部安全保障。

For example, if one wants to build a distributed exchange, every bid, offer, and match may require all the security guarantees of the main chain.

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由于交易所上每个用户的每个操作都如此频繁地使用主链,侧链系统的扩展优势可能极其有限。

With this much main chain usage for every possible action of every user on the Exchange, the scaling advantages of the side chain system may be extremely limited.

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直接在链上提交报价可能仅占用约90字节,而存储订单信息的哈希值及其识别所需的结构和开销在链上可能约为50字节。

Submitting a bid on chain natively may only use around 90 bytes, while storing a hash of the order information and the structure and overhead around it necessary to be identified could be around 50 bytes on chain.

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所以节省的空间并不多。

So not much of a space saving.

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2014年3月,Counterparty开发者XNova阐述了他反对侧链观点的理由:此外,除非我有所遗漏,我们仍需从第二条区块链的区块中解析数据(假设其至少是比特币或比特币衍生实现)才能获取存储的数据。

In March 2014, counterparty developer XNova outlined his opposition to the side chain's point as follows: Moreover, unless I'm overlooking something here, we would still need to parse out the data from the blocks in that second blockchain assuming it's a Bitcoin or a Bitcoin derivative implementation at least, to get our stored data.

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因此这将无法实现SPV类型的Counterparty客户端(即Counterparty相较于染色币功能的优势),反而会降低Counterparty交易的安全性。

So it would not enable SPV type counterparty clients for what counterparty offers over colored coin functionality, It would lessen security of counterparty transactions.

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这将极大增加实现复杂度,唯一存疑的收益仅是区块链存储需求的略微减少。

It would greatly increase the complexity of the implementation the only dubious benefit would be the slight lessening our storage requirements on the blockchain, I.

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即每笔交易可能减少20到40字节。

E, maybe 20 to 40 bytes less per transaction.

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我实在看不出这有什么意义。

I just don't see how this would make any sense here.

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还有一点。

One more point.

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Counterparty能为比特币带来巨大收益,尤其当以太坊及其他类似非比特币的元2.0类代币出现时,这点将更为明显。

Counterparty can bring immense benefits to Bitcoin, and this will especially become more apparent if or as Ethereum and other similar non Bitcoin Meta two point o type coins enter the picture.

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我个人认为,至少在比特币生态系统中,可能需要具备此类功能的产品,才能有效与以太坊及其未来的功能列表和吸引力竞争,否则就有可能被淘汰——至少在投资者和金融市场运营商眼中如此。这些功能能够随着比特币获得更多认可、信任和心智份额,为生态系统带来数十亿甚至数万亿的资金。

My personal feeling here, at least, is that Bitcoin may very well need offerings in the ecosystem with this kind of functionality to effectively compete with Ethereum and future crowds feature list and draws, or risk becoming obsoleted, at least among investors and financial market operators, which offer the ability to bring billions and even trillions into the Bitcoin ecosystem as it gains more recognition, trust, and mindshare with them.

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似乎一些支持侧链解决方案的人对许多Dapp应用并不特别感兴趣,也没有进行过尝试。

It seems that some of the people arguing in favor of sidechains as a solution were not particularly interested in many of the Dapp applications, nor had they experimented with them.

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因此,他们从未深入思考过构建分布式交易所的复杂性,以及几乎每个用户的每个操作都需要安全保障的问题。

Therefore, they never thought through the complexities of building a distributed exchange and how almost every single action from every user requires security.

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大多数比特币开发者对自己感兴趣的内容相当开放,也明确知道自己想要什么:抗审查的货币、非政治性货币、电子现金等。

Most Bitcoin developers seemed quite open about what they are interested in and clear about what they want: censorship resistant money, non political money, electronic cash, etc.

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结论是,2014年后,大多数对DApp感兴趣的开发者都专注于在以太坊或其他系统上构建,而非比特币。

Conclusion After around 2014, most developers interested in DApps focused on building on Ethereum or other systems, not on Bitcoin.

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以太坊随后获得了开发者兴趣和势头的临界质量,而比特币上的DApp开发则微乎其微。

Ethereum then achieved a critical mass of developer interest and momentum, and DApp development on Bitcoin was minimal.

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本文的关键点在于强调,其主要驱动力并不一定是费用或以太坊虚拟机及其更强的技术能力。

The key point of this article is to emphasize that the main driver for this was not necessarily fees or Ethereum's virtual machine and Ethereum's stronger technical capabilities.

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仅仅是因为许多比特币支持者和开发者不希望比特币上有DApp,他们对这些功能不感兴趣。

It is simply that many Bitcoiners and Bitcoin developers did not want DApps on Bitcoin, and they were not interested in these features.

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无论好坏,一些开发者有意将许多DApp开发者拒之门外。

For better or for worse, some developers deliberately pushed many of these DApp developers away.

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一些比特币支持者认为,大多数DApp活动与不可持续的骗局有关,或者出于安全等原因,这些活动在比特币上是不受欢迎的。

Some Bitcoiners believe that most of the DApp activity is related to unsustainable scams, or that this activity is undesirable on Bitcoin for security or other reasons.

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与此同时,一些山寨币的推广者可能夸大了所谓OpReturn战争的影响和意义,以推动他们新兴的链。

At the same time, some promoters of alternative coins may have exaggerated the impact and significance of the so called OpReturn wars to boost their burgeoning chains.

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许多人的观点自2014年以来已经发生了变化。

The views of many people have changed since 2014.

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比特币需要交易手续费才能生存。

Bitcoin needs transaction fees to survive.

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在2016年后的环境中,我们有许多满区块和相对较高的手续费,人们更普遍认识到任何支付手续费的交易都是合法的。

In the post-twenty sixteen environment, in which we have many full blocks and somewhat higher fees, it is more widely appreciated that any fee paying transaction is legitimate.

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以太坊上某些dApp,如Uniswap这类交易所,或Aave、Compound这类借贷协议,已被证明在一定程度上既成功又有趣。

Certain dApps on Ethereum such as exchanges like Uniswap or lending protocols like Aave and Compound have proven to be both successful and interesting to some extent.

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尽管如此,比特币持有者是否足够关心这些协议在比特币上的应用,更不用说是否有人会真正构建并使用它们,仍是一个悬而未决的问题。

Despite this, whether Bitcoiners even care enough to want these protocols on Bitcoin, let alone if anyone will actually build and use them, remains an open question.

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好吧。

Alright.

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我确实努力想找到开头提到的Peter Wella的那段引文,想直接读出来,但我没找到,而且我不想花一整天时间只为准确引用一段话。

So I've really tried to, find the Peter Wella quote that I mentioned at the beginning, so I could read it directly, but I am not coming up with anything, and I don't wanna spend all day looking for a quote just to be accurate.

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或者说精确,我想这个词更合适,因为我清楚地记得它背后的主题或概念,这正是它让我印象深刻的原因,也是为什么我认为这是对这场大辩论双方立场的最佳诠释——关于比特币发展方向、比特币核心及参考客户端、节点问题的思考,实际上更是关于将垃圾邮件作为内存池政策决策的讨论,因为这显然还涉及其他问题。

Or precise, I guess, is the better the better term because I remember exactly what the the theme or the concept behind it was, and that's what made it stand out to me so well, is why I thought this was such a great representation of the of both sides of this this drama or this this big debate that's happening in which direction to take or how to think about Bitcoin development, how to think about Bitcoin Core and the reference client, how to think about the nodes, and well, really really actually about the decisions for spam as a policy decision in Mempool, because there are definitely other issues around this.

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但我认为这是整个谜题中最核心的部分之一。

But I think this is one of the really core pieces of the puzzle here.

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我这么说并非双关语,而是真正意义上的争论核心。

And I don't mean that as, like, no pun intended, but the the heart of the argument, so to speak.

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他当时的观点本质上是:技术上无法阻止某人发送大于40字节或80字节的内容,而让他们使用可证明可修剪的OpReturn,比使用多重签名或其他更低效、更不理想的链上方式实现同样目的要好。

And so what he said was essentially, there's no way to stop the, you know, somebody from getting something technically larger than 40 bytes or 80 bytes or whatever it was, And it's better for them to be using OpReturn, which is provably prunable, than using something else like multisig or some less use or less efficient or less desirable use of the chain to do the same thing.

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然而据说,他们似乎被劝阻不要大规模这样做,放宽OpReturn限制以提供所谓'更好的方式'来减少损害,实际上可能招致更多此类行为,因为这可能被视为一种邀请。

Said, however, they seem to have been discouraged from doing this at scale and loosening the op return in order to give them a quote unquote better way to do this to to not cause so much damage may actually invite much more of the exact activity because it may appear as an invitation.

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就像在说:哦,这么做完全没问题。

It's like, oh, well, it's totally cool to do this.

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就在这里做吧。

Just do it right here.

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我们可能会看到更多不良行为,因为我们正在提交或修改政策以适应技术细节,而这在社会层面会产生重大影响。

And we could get a lot more of an undesirable behavior because we're submitting or changing our policy to match a technicality that has a big impact in the social layer.

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现在,这段话确实很长,差不多有三句话,但这就是背后的概念。

Now, that is a very long this was literally like three sentences, but that that's what the concept behind it was.

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我认为这很棒,因为它完美地总结了问题——正如他所说,比我简洁得多——即存在技术现实,也存在社会现实,以及仅仅假设某些技术元素才是真正重要的,而忽略了人性的一面,可能带来的社会经济激励后果。

And I thought it was great because it was such a perfect summation, as he said, far more succinctly than I did of the issue is that there is a technical reality, and then there is a social reality and a potential social and economic incentive consequence of just assuming that the technical that some technical element is all that actually matters and that there's not a human side to this whole thing.

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在我看来,这是两种立场之间最大的分歧:将操作码返回提高到100KB就是一种邀请。

And that, in my opinion, is the biggest divide between the two different positions of this, is that raising the op return to a 100 kilobytes is an invitation.

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这会被视为一种邀请,我们可能会看到十倍于当前的行为,甚至出现在铭文中,甚至以各种我们不希望的方式,整体情况会变得更糟,因为它会吸引一大批山寨币玩家和NFT人士,他们认为现在比特币不会妨碍他们了。

It will be seen as an invitation, and we are probably going to get 10 times the amount of the exact behavior, maybe even in inscriptions, maybe even in all the ways that we don't want it, that it all just overall gets worse because it invites a whole bunch of shitcoiners and a whole bunch of NFT people thinking that now Bitcoin isn't going to get in our way.

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我觉得这篇文章有趣的地方在于,它似乎在论证说,以太坊、山寨币之类的出现是因为比特币玩家把他们推开了。

And what I found interesting about this piece is that it seems to argue that like, oh, well, Ethereum, like the shitcoins and all this stuff seem to have happened because Bitcoiners pushed them away.

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但我敢打赌,很多比特币玩家会说:哦,原来这就是他们没在比特币上搞这些破事的原因?

But I bet there's a whole hell of a lot of Bitcoiners who would be like, oh, so that's actually why they stayed off of Bitcoin and they didn't do all of this bullshit on Bitcoin?

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可能很多人确实认为这是件好事。

It's probably a lot of people that actually see that as a really good thing.

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事实上,在98%的情况下,我也这么认为——考虑到那些链上正在做的事情,以及它们被用来处理的数据和垃圾,甚至包括很多dApp。

In fact, I kind of do as well in probably 98% of the cases when it comes to what is being done with those chains and what kind of bloat and like, data and stuff that they're being used for, even a lot of the dApps.

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当然,可以论证需要一个开放的协议,比如交换协议之类的,但问题是大多数这些开放协议实际上都依赖自己的代币。

Like, there is certainly an a case to be made for an open protocol for, you you know, like, an exchange protocol or whatever, but the problem is that most of these open protocols literally rely on their own token.

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它们依赖自己的系统——一个循环系统——才能发挥作用,而这些东西的唯一用途就是用来赌山寨币。

They rely on their own system, like like a a circular system to actually be of any use, and the only use case for any of this stuff has been gambling on shitcoins.

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比如,99%的活动本质上都是这样的。

Like, it's like 99% of all of the activity is essentially that.

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比如,如果你把所有垃圾币都剔除,它们中没有一个有实际用途。

Like, if you literally take away all of the shitcoins, none of those have any real use case.

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我认为问题在于未能认清我们真正想要构建的是什么。

And that I think is the problem of failing to recognize what things we're actually trying to build.

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比如,原子交换确实能解决问题。

Like, atomic swaps actually do the job.

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现在有个重要警示——我觉得文章其实提到了——那些批评或说'可以这样做'的人,并不是真正热衷于构建dApp或去中心化交易所的人。

And now, there there's an important caveat that I think the article actually brought up is that, you know, people who are criticizing or saying you can just do it this way are not people who are super interested in building dApps or building decentralized exchanges.

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我完全同意这其中存在这样的因素。

And I will agree there's a thousand percent an element of that.

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这点确实不该被直接否定,因为说得有道理。

Like, that that is not something to be outright dismissed because that's a good point.

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但说实话,除了让整个加密行业——包括比特币——背上恶名之外,这些行为还带来了什么?

But honestly, what did that all of that get the crypto industry other than a horrible, horrible reputation that Bitcoin is still being lumped in with?

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尽管我们已经竭力撇清关系,但比特币的'品牌'或网络本身仍难免被他们的烂事玷污。

And it's difficult even even despite the fact that we pushed them away, it's still it's still difficult to not have the Bitcoin quote unquote brand or the Bitcoin network itself be tarnished with all of the crap that they're doing.

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很多人说如果这些活动都回归比特币,反而会让比特币变得更好。

And there's a lot of people who say that, you know, if all of that activity came back to Bitcoin, it would make Bitcoin better.

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对吧?

Right?

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比方说...具体数字我记不清了,为简单起见就说50%吧。

Is it you know, let's say I can't remember exactly what the numbers are, but let's just for the sake of simplicity say it's 50%.

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整个加密货币市场市值是比特币的一半。

All of crypto is 50% of the Bitcoin market cap.

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所以,比特币市值是2万亿美元,而其他所有加密货币加起来是1万亿美元。

So, Bitcoin is $2,000,000,000,000 and all of the rest of crypto is 1,000,000,000,000.

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就像很多人说的那样,如果我们把这些都整合到比特币上,让它们都回归比特币,那么那1万亿美元就会加到比特币上。

As a lot of people say, was like, oh, well, if if we just embrace this on Bitcoin and we got them all to come back, then that $1,000,000,000,000 would be added to Bitcoin.

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这样比特币的市值就会达到3万亿美元。

And so now Bitcoin would be worth $3,000,000,000,000.

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而实际上我持相反观点。

And I actually argue the opposite.

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我其实认为比特币的价值之所以如此,正是因为它一成不变,因为其文化根基坚如磐石,我们不会在上面做愚蠢的事情,我们对此是认真的。

I actually believe that the reason Bitcoin's value is what it is is because of how unchanging, because of the the culture is such a this is a rock solid foundation, and we don't do stupid crappy things on it, that that we're serious about this.

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这不是在垃圾币上赌博。

This isn't gambling on shitcoins.

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我们不发自己的代币。

We're not issuing our own tokens.

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我们不想把世界上所有东西都数字化。

We're not trying to dap everything in the world.

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我们致力于创造可靠、高诚信、高保障的货币,并竭尽全力集中精力于此,同时杜绝那些滥用网络或管理不善的行为。

We are trying to make reliable, high integrity, high assurance money, and we are doing everything in our power to narrow that focus to that and to stop the things that abuse and or are poor stewards of that network itself.

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我认为比特币之所以被视为更合法,正是因为摒弃了那些东西。

I think Bitcoin is seen as more legitimate because those things were pushed away.

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而且我确实相信比特币的市值会迎来这样的局面。

And I actually believe Bitcoin's market cap would come and meet.

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我们可能会达成某种折中方案。

It would we'd meet halfway probably.

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如果以太坊和其他加密货币都转向比特币,比特币的市值会下降,因为它看起来像是一个不那么严肃的竞争者。

It would Bitcoin's market cap would fall if the rest of Ethereum and crypto and everything went to it because it would look like a less serious competitor.

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它会显得更像骗局,像一个不那么严肃的协议。

It would look like a it would be seen as more scammy and like a less serious protocol.

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而整体市值可能会维持在约1.5万亿美元,因为政府、大型资产机构和寻求避风港的人们——由于生态系统的现状,他们不会像现在这样认真看待它。

And the the overall market cap would probably be something like one and a half trillion dollars because governments and large asset institutions and people looking for safe havens, They would not see they would not see it as as as seriously as they see it today because of what the ecosystem looks like.

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这就是我个人认为会发生的情况。

That that is in my opinion what what I literally think would happen.

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我发现有趣的是,这篇文章的背景是社交文化实际上赶走了那些滥用协议工具的经济投资。

And I find it interesting that the context of this article is that the social culture actually drove away the economic investment in the tools that abused this abused the protocol.

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有趣的是,从技术上讲这正说明垃圾邮件过滤之所以有效,是因为其带来的经济和社会后果。

And what's funny is that that's technically an argument that the spam filtering works because of the economic and social consequences of it.

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没有人愿意用可能在两天内被大部分节点过滤掉交易的钱包来创建NFT公司,因为他们不希望这成为比特币协议的主要用途。

Is that nobody wants to in nobody wants to make an NFT company using a wallet that where the transactions may literally get get filtered out by a huge portion of the nodes in two days because they don't want this being a main a major use of the Bitcoin protocol.

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现在,我已经反复论证并讨论了'合法交易是否就是合法交易'这个概念,仅此而已。

And now, I've argued and we've talked endlessly about the idea of whether or not a legitimate transaction is a legitimate transaction, and that's it.

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只要他们付了钱,数据内容无关紧要。

If they pay the money, it doesn't matter what the data is.

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这是自由市场。

It's a free market.

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而我一次又一次地强调,我认为最重要的类比——也是我认为这种观点愚蠢的原因——因为自由市场之所以能存在,恰恰是因为市场有其规则。

And I over and over again, I the analogy that I think matters more than anything else, and why I think that is a foolish way to look at it, because it's not about a free market necessarily can only be a free market because there are rules to the market.

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市场必须先建立起来。

The market has to be established first.

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如果没有产权,就不存在自由市场,因为自由市场要求个人拥有财产、能够界定财产权,并能相互同意交易,且这种交易具有某种最终性,确保合同能够执行。

If there aren't property rights, then there is no such thing as a free market because a free market requires that people individually have property, they can define that property, and that they can mutually agree to trade, and that that trade has some semblance of finality, that there is an assurance that that contract can go through.

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在建立这些规范之前,根本不可能有自由市场,而这些规范很大程度上是社会性的。

There are there is no way to have a free market until you have established those norms, and those norms are largely social.

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本质上,是产生的普通法使之成为可能,是文化使之成为可能。

It's basically common law that arises that enables that, and it is culture that enables that.

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如果缺乏这种文化,如果不存在普通法和这些基本财产权,就不可能有自由市场。

There is no way to have a free market if that is not the culture, if that common law and that those basic property rights don't exist.

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就像交通规则——绿灯行、红灯停、黄灯减速等等。

It's like the rules of the road That everybody goes on green, and everybody stops on red, and you slow down on yellow, etcetera.

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规则是统一的。

That the the rules are uniform.

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每个人都靠右行驶。

Everybody drives on the right side of the road.

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这不是因为他们要审查靠左行驶的人,或是审查闯红灯的人。

That's not because they're censoring people who are driving on the left side of the road, or they're censoring people who are driving driving through red lights.

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不是说我们应该有自由市场,然后每个人都可以随意闯红灯或在绿灯时停车,完全按自己高兴的方式来。

It's not we should have a free market, and then everybody can just drive through red lights or stop at green lights, however the hell they see fit.

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只要在路上并且付钱买了车,他们想怎么开都行。

They can do whatever they want as long as they're on the road, and they've paid for a car.

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一切都很美好。

Everything's good.

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道路系统的结构和道路上的行为规范,这些标准化措施明确地保障了道路系统的正常运转和人们的生命安全,使他们能够顺利到达目的地。

The structure of the road system and the behaviors on the road, the standardization of those things are explicitly so the road system works and people don't die, and instead they actually just get to where they are trying to go.

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因此,我喜欢用这样的类比:当比特币被用作任意数据存储时,就像把法庭租出去举办音乐会。

So the analogy I like to use is that when Bitcoin is being used as an arbitrary data store, it is like a courtroom being rented out for concerts.

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你的音乐会门票之所以有价值,唯一的原因在于存在一个结构和产权体系,规定他们需要兑换座位,或者如果无法兑现就应该退款。

The only reason the ticket to your concert is worth anything is because you have a structure, you have a system of property rights that says they need to redeem it for a seat, or you should get your money back if something doesn't go through.

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当然,情况并非总是如此。

Now, that might not always be the case.

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可能存在细则条款之类的限制,但实际上这种信任是根深蒂固的——人们确信这套机制会有效运作,社会双方之间存在真实的产权与责任关系,以至于人们甚至不会细读条款,因为他们预期如果音乐会取消而无法观看演出,就理应获得退款。

There might be fine print or whatever, but there is this unspoken in fact, it's so assured, it's so trusted that this will work and that there is some sort of semblance of genuine ownership and obligation between these two parties in society the people don't read the fine print because they expect a refund if they don't get to go to the concert, if they have to shut down the concert and they never get to see the show.

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人们预期自己能够拿回退款。

It is expected that they are going to get their money back.

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但这种预期之所以存在,是因为文化因素以及法院系统保障的可靠性。这意味着如果让法院系统臃肿低效,迫使人们排队等候审理,导致大家放弃通过法院解决纠纷或追回欠款,转而寻求外部途径。

But the reason this expectation is there is because of the culture and the reliability of its enforcement because of the court system, which means if you bloat the court system and make it hard, make people have to wait in line to get through court such that people just stop going and they start going externally, that go through external means to settle their disputes or get their money back.

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于是人们逐渐丧失了对'票据实际具有价值'这一预期的信任。

And so there's a slow general breakdown of the expectation that the ticket is actually worth anything.

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这实际上破坏了法院系统试图维护的经济活动,因为大量外部人士在高喊'自由市场',认为可以随心所欲地利用法院系统。

It actually undermines the economic activity that the court system is actually trying to uphold because a whole bunch of people are outsiders screaming, free market, we can use the court system for whatever we want.

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你们只需付个入场费,就能进来开派对、办音乐会,想搞什么活动都行。

You should just pay a fee, and then you can get in, and we can have parties, and concerts, and whatever the hell we want.

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这种说法站不住脚的原因在于:根本没人阻止你们做这些事。

The reason that's not an argument is because nobody stopping you from doing those things.

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没人会阻止任何人举办音乐会或搞任何类似活动。

Nobody stopping anybody from having a concert or doing any of that stuff.

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针对这一点,有十亿种替代方案可选。

There are a billion alternatives for exactly that.

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没有人被审查。

Nobody's being censored.

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关键在于,除了法院系统外,我们别无选择来解决财产权保障和纠纷处理。

It's that there is no alternative other than the court system for settling and having assurance of property rights and the dispute of disagreements.

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因此在比特币的语境下,核心论点是:我们找不到去中心化、无国界、非政治化、全球无需许可货币的替代品。

So the argument for in the context of Bitcoin was that would be that we don't have an alternative for decentralized, stateless, apolitical, global permissionless money.

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存储JPEG图像实际上有无限多的替代方案,多到永无止境。

There are a literal infinite, like, never ending number of alternatives for storing a JPEG.

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所以从纯概念、纯理论和哲学角度,必须这样看待问题。

So purely conceptually, purely in a theoretical and philosophical sense, it must be looked at that way.

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法院系统必须绝对优先用于解决纠纷,任何削弱其确立和执行财产权能力的次要用途都应被排除。

That the court system must absolutely be used for settling disputes above or to a priority over any other use of that courtroom that is net negative to its ability to institute and enforce property rights.

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在这个前提下,比特币毫无疑问是货币体系。

And in that context, Bitcoin is absolutely a monetary system.

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它关乎去中心化的无国界货币,若不能实现这个核心功能,其他所有优势都毫无意义。

It is about decentralized stateless money, and all of its other benefits mean jack, mean exactly nothing if it cannot serve that purpose.

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我知道反对派会如何反驳。

Now, I know what the other side would come back and say.

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我清楚反对论点是什么。

I know what the argument against.

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他们会立即表示:你做不到。

They would immediately be like, well, you can't.

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你无法阻止音乐会进入法庭,所以应该另设一个房间让他们在那里举办音乐会,其他人则可以进入主厅或其他地方。

You can't stop concerts from getting into the courtroom, so should just make another room for them so that they can have concerts in that room and everybody else can go into the main room or whatever.

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我不知道。

I don't know.

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这只是一个技术性问题,你无法阻止他们举办音乐会。

It would just be a technicality that you can't stop them from having concerts.

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那有什么意义呢?

So what's the point?

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关键在于,这种劝阻措施似乎确实奏效了。

Well, point is is that it seems like that discouragement actually worked.

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这并不是说应该把对手方也包括在内。

Now, that's not to say that counterparty should be included in that.

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这也不是说完全没有使用或保留任何歌剧转场空间的必要。

That's not to say that there's not any there's no use or no reason to have any opera turn space at all.

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我认为83字节完全没问题。

I don't think I think 83 bytes is totally fine.

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我相信这些数据可以用来做一些有趣的事情,特别是金融或货币方面的应用。

I'm sure there are interesting things, specifically financial or monetary things that you can do with that data.

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但如果我们真的相信激励机制并认为这些因素重要,为什么他们要花更多钱在操作返回上做,而不是直接刻录呢?

But if we actually believe in the incentives and think that those things matter, why would they pay more to do it in op return if they can do it in an inscription?

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遗憾的是,我们对协议做了修改,反而让他们用错误的方式获得了折扣。

And we unfortunately made changes to the protocol that gave them a discount for doing it the wrong way.

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在我看来,这是问题的主要症结所在。

And that's a huge part of the problem in my opinion.

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但回到社会与经济层面的考量,激励机制或文化动因——正是过滤机制中那些看似微小的调整,以及对随意数据入链的明确抵制,从根本上阻止并劝退了许多试图以该方式构建和使用数据的人。

But going back to the idea of the social and economic, incentives or the cultural incentives, is it very simple changes in the filters and a very explicit stance against arbitrary data going into the chain basically prevented and pushed away a lot of the people building and using the data in exactly that way.

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这并不是因为过滤技术会审查所有内容,也不是因为他们无法将数据打包成区块或自行挖掘。

And it wasn't because filters technically censor everything or that there was no way for them to get it into a block or they couldn't mine it themselves.

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当然,总有办法绕过这些限制。

Of course, there's there were always ways around it.

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关键在于,如果他们感到不受欢迎,认为将面临过度或不必要的维护工作,以及持续应对文化与环境排斥带来的问题,他们就会选择离开——而事实正是如此。

The point is is if they felt uninvited and that there was going to be undue or unnecessary maintenance and constant dealing with how to solve the fact that the culture and the environment didn't want them there, they were going to leave, and they did.

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过滤机制支持者的论点是:它通过增加链上边际成本发挥作用,使得他们难以随意使用工具和协议将数据塞入链中,同时文化排斥效应也阻碍了对此类长期大型项目的投资。

That is the argument from the filter's side, is that it works because it adds a marginal cost on chain, it makes it slightly more difficult for them to use their tools and their protocols to just arbitrarily stick data in the chain, and then the culture pushes them away and discourages investment into big long term projects like that.

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现在确实存在可讨论的空间。

Now there is an argument to be made.

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我们需要辩论的是:是否仍要坚持这种方式,是否要继续推进到底,以及是否忽略了某些有价值的东西。

There is a debate to have as to whether or not we still want to have that way have it that way, that we still want to drive it all the way, and that there isn't something useful.

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对方可能持有我们需要的某种工具、网络或其他资源。

The counterparty doesn't have some sort of a tool or network or something that we want or or whatever.

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但我认为,不在这个层面展开辩论是不诚实的——因为很明显,支持过滤机制者的论点(关于社会文化投入的多少,以及我们的姿态是欢迎还是抵制这类活动会显著影响实际参与度)确实重要。

But I think it's dishonest to not just have the debate at that layer because I think it's pretty clear that the filter the the people who are pro filters argument that the social and cultural investment and whether how much activity we will get depending on whether we look invitational or if we look opposed to this sort of activity, that that matters.

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这对实际活动发生的规模影响重大。

That matters a lot in how much of that activity actually occurs.

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过滤本质上是一场猫鼠游戏,若能持续跟进,确实能产生显著效果。

And that filters are basically a cat and mouse game that if actually kept up with, can and do have a significant effect.

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因此从该视角看,当前铭文问题的严重性在于:他们已不再关注过滤机制,也停止了应对措施。

And so the argument that inscriptions are so bad inscriptions are so bad right now from that perspective is that they stopped caring about filters and they stopped doing anything about it.

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换句话说,垃圾信息之所以如此猖獗,是因为长期无人治理。其实只要采用默认客户端并实施连贯的MIMPLE策略,就能轻松遏制大部分垃圾信息,让那些投资此类项目的投机者知难而退。

In other words, the spam is so bad because nobody's been fighting the spam for a while, and that it would actually be easy if you had the default client and a pretty cohesive MIMPLE policy to stop a lot of it and to annoy the people who are investing in these projects and make them go away.

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历史上确有先例表明,如果我们选择这条路径,很可能会产生这样的结果。

And there is historical example that that may very well be what happens if you take that route, if that's the path that we choose to take.

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反之亦然。即便我们认定这种做法不可取,但若彻底放开操作返回限制,可能会导致人们争相将任意数据塞入链中,利用比特币中继网络传播大量垃圾信息。

And that the opposite may also be true, that flipping it on its head is that even if we say it's undesirable, if we just unleash the op return limit, it may literally create a flood of people using it to to cram arbitrary data into the chain and use the Bitcoin relay network to just pass a bunch of garbage around.

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无论你支持或反对过滤器,或是针对各类操作设置上限限制。

And whether or not you have a stance for or pro against filters or upper turn limit of this, that, or the other.

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这些都无关紧要。

Doesn't matter.

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我想表达的是,我们应该能达成共识——这两点都是客观事实。

I'm saying that I think we can we should be able to agree that those two things are true.

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现在的问题是:这样做值得吗?

Now the question is, is it worth it?

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我们能从中获得什么?

Is there something to be gained?

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获得的收益是否足够重要?

Is there enough to be gained for that to matter?

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或者说,是否足以产生净正面效益?

Or maybe specifically for that to be a net positive.

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更重要的是,我们有任何理由相信,这种可能加剧UTXO集膨胀的破坏性操作方式会得到丝毫遏制吗?

And really, is there any reason to suspect that the negative way to do this, the more abusive way to do this that causes an even greater problem with the UTXO set bloat, is that actually going to be reduced at all?

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因为我认为,支持过滤器解除方和提高操作上限的论点中存在诸多问题。

Because I think I think there's a lot of things that come from the pro filter I mean, excuse me, the anti filter side and the raising of the upper turn limit.

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他们说的很多话让我觉得他们像是在承认,至少我听过的许多开发者都承认,不,这对铭文可能不会有任何影响。

A lot of things that they say kind of make me really seems like they are admitting, or at least a lot of the developers that I've listened to kind of admit that no, it's probably not gonna do anything for inscriptions.

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实际上他们只专注于一个项目,或者用它作为例子说明他们宁愿使用op_return而不是铭文。

And that there's actually only like one project that they have been focused on or using as an example of where they would actually rather use op return than inscriptions.

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具体来说,这个项目甚至不会有任何交易量,与其他使用铭文的功能(主要是发行代币和NFT,以及所有那些明显廉价低价值的垃圾)相比,对他们来说完全微不足道。

And specifically, one project that isn't even gonna have like, there's gonna be completely negligible volume for them as opposed to any of the other things that people use inscriptions for, which is mostly issuing tokens and NFTs and literally all of the obvious cheap low value garbage.

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所以我不明白反过滤派的人,比如核心v30之类的,为什么会认为这是个好决定。

And so I don't understand how the anti filters side, the people who are like core v 30 or whatever, who think this is a good decision.

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抛开其他所有事情不谈,我一直在和开发者交流。

Regardless of any of the other things, which I I've been speaking to dev.

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天啊,我一直忘记安排。

A God, I keep forgetting to schedule.

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我记不清具体名字了。

It's I I can't remember I can't remember exactly the name.

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我们一直在聊天,他想聚一聚,私下聊聊,不做成播客,也不想公开制造戏剧性场面。

But we've been chatting and he wants to get together and just kinda have a chat off show without making a podcast and make it like drama in public or whatever.

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我一直忘记回去和他确认时间。

And I keep forgetting to go back and actually schedule with him.

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但我其实想听听他的看法,因为他一直在谈论v30中其他真正积极的事情,比如初始区块下载速度显著提升,以及其他一些我们没深入讨论的内容。

But I'd actually like to hear his take because he has been talking about like other things in v 30 that are actually really positive like a, you know, significant boost to the initial block download and some other things that we'd actually didn't get into.

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这就是为什么我们想进行一次对话,就是要详细讨论这些。

That's why we wanted to have a conversation is to actually go through those.

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但有些事情对客户端确实非常有益,我可能会问他——也许他会听到这段话——我想问的是,为什么要试图把这些明显具有政治分歧、我认为站不住脚的事情捆绑在一起?

But things that are actually really good for the client and, you know, part of me, like, my probably something that I'll ask him and he maybe he listens to this, I don't know, but something that I would ask is that, well, why why try to attach those two those things to something that's so obviously political divisive and politically defies divisive and something that I just cannot see.

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我无法认同那种认为不断改变这个问题会产生任何实质性差异的观点,频繁变动只会让情况变得更糟。

I I can't get behind the argument that there's going to be any meaningful difference to this problem that changing constantly changing this is only just going to make things worse.

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我就是看不出人们这样滥用链上资源、随意填充数据能带来什么好处。

I just can't see how there's a benefit here to how people are using how people are spamming the chain and putting in arbitrary data.

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因为他们现在无意中享受了折扣,既然本可以当好管家不往区块链塞垃圾数据,凭什么要付更多钱来当好管家呢?

Because they unintentionally have a discount right now, and why would they pay more to be good stewards when they could already be good stewards and not put their dick butts on the blockchain?

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老实说,我多希望第30版真能解决这个问题,让人们开始使用操作码。

And I'll be perfectly honest, I would love to think that version 30 will actually would actually solve this problem, that would actually get people to use the opera term.

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但按我现在的理解,大概有两种选择——不是说绝对只有两种,只是打个比方,比如当前主要有铭文和邮票两种形式。

But I as I kinda see it now is that there's two options, and I'm not saying there are explicitly two options, I'm just using this kind of as analogy, like, let's say that the current state of things, there's like inscriptions and stamps.

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对吧?

Right?

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这两种就是人们滥用UTXO集、向链上推送垃圾数据的主要方式。

And that these are the two main ways that people abuse the UTXO set and push arbitrary data into the train.

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不管具体是哪两种方法,反正人们主要就用这两类。

There's just whatever those two methods are, there's like two main ones that people use.

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而我们要做的就是解锁OpReturn功能,让他们停止这些行为。

And what we're going to do is we're going to unlock OpReturn so that they'll stop doing those things.

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这就是核心理念。

This is the idea.

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明白吗?

Right?

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他们会减少那些行为,转而使用对比特币网络伤害更小的OpReturn方案——技术上这才是更优解。

Is they're gonna stop doing those things as much and they're gonna use OpReturn, which is technically better way for them to do this, which is not as bad to the Bitcoin network.

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但我所见以及所谓专业过滤人士普遍认为,目前有两种方法可以实现,而现在即将出现第三种方式。

But what I see and what I think the quote unquote pro filters people generally see is that there's currently two ways to do this and now there's gonna be three ways to do this.

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而这第三种方式可能只对少数不同人群或用例有帮助,而且成本也高得多。

And the third way is helpful to maybe a handful of different people or use cases and it's also a lot more expensive.

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因此极有可能,没人会停止使用前两种方法,但会有许多新人开始采用新的第三种方式,并认为这是善意的做法,认为这就是比特币持有者现在想要的。

So very likely, nobody stops using the first two ways, but in will come a lot of new people using the new third way and thinking that they're being nice and this is this is now what Bitcoiners want.

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而我认为这种对结果预期的看法并非不合理,老实说我认为人们并不真正知道最终结果会怎样,但这绝对是一种可能性。

And I just don't see how that's an unreasonable view of what the outcome of this is, and I honestly don't think people really know what the outcome of this is going to be, but that's absolutely a possibility.

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任何声称自己确切知道事情会如何发展的人都是错的,因为没人能预知未来。

And anybody saying that they know one way or the other exactly how this is gonna play out is wrong because nobody knows.

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在我看来,如果效果并非明显积极,且存在多种潜在后果,那么就应该倾向于维持现状或给予更多时间观察这是否是正确的方向。

And in my opinion, if the effect isn't clearly positive and there's a lot of different potential consequences of something, is that on the side of not changing or giving it some more time to see whether or not this is the right way to go.

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尤其是当争议极大,甚至导致人们不愿再运行你的软件时。

Especially if it's hugely contentious and people don't even wanna run your software anymore for it.

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更不用说,如果你认为其他一大堆功能都很棒,却因为这件我们固执坚持的事情而无人采纳——而实际上运行你们软件的大部分人都明确表示不想要这个功能。

And even especially especially if there's like a whole bunch of other things that you think are great and nobody is going to adopt them because of this one thing that we're belligerently holding on to that a huge portion of the people who literally run your software are saying they don't want.

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我是说,这种情况肯定有其道理。

I mean, there's gotta be something to that.

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如果索尼可以骂我是白痴或笨蛋,说'你不过是个愚蠢的播客主,根本不懂行',这并不能说明我的立场为何不合理。

And if Sony can call me a retard or an idiot or you're just a stupid podcaster and you don't know what you're talking about, well, that's not an argument about how why that position is unreasonable.

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这在我看来并非不合理,而且我至今没听到能有力反驳这种观点为何不合理的论据。

It doesn't sound unreasonable to me, and I've still not heard a good argument as to why that is unreasonable.

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仅仅因为我是播客主就说我不懂行,这是在逃避实质性的论点讨论。

Saying that I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm a podcaster is just a way to get out of arguing the point.

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我个人确实认为这个问题值得商榷。

And I personally actually think there's a debate to be had.

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我不认为哪一方是绝对正确的。

I don't think it's clear cut either way.

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我确实更倾向于所谓的某一方。

I do fall on quote unquote one side more than the other.

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但我认为这篇文章充分说明了为何这个问题尚无定论。

But I think this article is such a clear example of why this is not clear.

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为了比特币的发展,我认为我们需要保持些许谦逊。

And for the sake of Bitcoin, I think a little bit of humility is called for.

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请注意,我说的是所有人。

From everybody, mind you.

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我并非在指责某一方,但在开发者与代码执行者关系的语境下,应该完全抛开那些过滤条件。

I'm not calling out one side here, but throw the entire filter thing out the window just in the context of the relationship between the developers writing the code and the people running the code.

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这就像是一种伪服务提供商与客户的关系。

You have a kind of pseudo service provider and customer sort of relationship.

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而我并不认为客户总是最明白的。

And I do not believe the customer always knows best.

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我非常认同史蒂夫·乔布斯(或者亨利·福特等人)的理念。

I'm very much of the Steve Jobs, if you ask or the Henry Ford or whatever.

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如果你问客户想要什么,他们只会要一匹更快的马。

If you ask a customer what they want, they're gonna ask for a faster horse.

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所以我丝毫不认为这应该是个民主决策,更不该由用户来决定核心客户端该包含什么功能。

So I don't believe in the slightest that this should be a democracy and users should decide what what people put in core reference client and what they don't.

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但如果大量使用你开发的软件、作为网络最忠实运营者的人们

But if a huge number of people who run the software that you make and who are some of the most dedicated operators of the network that you work with.

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当他们强烈反对某项改动,而你不仅不认真对待,反而直接驳回并强行推进,甚至称他们为愚蠢的孩子

If they tell you they vehemently don't want something and you don't at least engage honestly with them, you outright dismiss and just push something through and literally call them stupid children.

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无论议题是什么,无论改动大小或重要性如何

I don't care what the topic is, and I don't care how big or how significant or insignificant the change is.

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就别惊讶人们会停止使用你的软件或不再信任你这个开发者

Don't be surprised if people stop running your software or trusting you as a developer.

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这简直是...这简直是基本常识

Like, that's just simp that's just basic.

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你如何对待喜爱或使用你软件的人群?

How do you treat people who like or use your software?

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节点运营者对你的软件有何期待?

And what does the node runner want in that software?

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重申一次,这与过滤参数争议毫无关联

Again, that has nothing to do with the filter argument.

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与OP_RETURN用80字节还是100KB也无关,这些都不重要

That has nothing to do with op return, 80 bytes or a 100 kilobytes, doesn't matter.

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争议的内容本可以是任何议题

The issue could have been anything.

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用现在这种处理方式,基本上就是把所有反对者都当傻子,绝非明智之举

Treating it the way that it has been treated and just basically saying everybody who disagrees with us is stupid, just not a smart decision.

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我不知道

I don't know.

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我们拭目以待吧。

We'll see how it plays out.

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但无论好坏——虽然我并不是说——我甚至不打算评价它到底是好是坏。

But for better or worse, which I am not I I I'm not even going to say whether I think it is better or worse.

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因为虽然我倾向于支持ProFilter一方,但我其实并不确定。

Because while I tend to agree with the ProFilter side, I don't I don't really know.

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你知道,这就是我的看法。

You know, that's just the way I think about it.

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这就是我的观点,我认为我们应该就此进行坦诚的讨论。

That's the way I see it, and I think we should have an honest discussion about it.

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而且我觉得这种情况不久前就已经停止了。

And I think that just stopped happening the good little while ago.

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但无论如何,我认为Core团队作为一个组织,他们的所作所为很大程度上损害了自身声誉。

But for better or worse, I think Core largely what Core has done as a as a group, as an organization, has just done reputational damage to themselves.

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而这对比特币可能特别不利。

And that specifically could be bad for Bitcoin.

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倒不是说这会摧毁比特币,我认为比特币的韧性远超过这场小闹剧。

Not that I think it would kill Bitcoin, I I think Bitcoin's a hell of a lot more resilient than this little drama.

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我认为确实存在——我还要补充一点——从来就没有什么完美解决方案。

I think there is and I also I will also say one thing is there was never an optimal path.

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我的意思是,网络中有很多...抱歉。

And what I mean by that is that there are plenty of thing the network excuse me.

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互联网仍然是去中心化的。

The Internet is still decentralized.

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就是今天。

It is today.

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存在许多缺点。

There are a lot of drawbacks.

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有许多权衡取舍。

There are a lot of trade offs.

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很多事情没有朝着正确的方向发展。

There are a lot of things that didn't go the right way.

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但互联网是一个全球性的去中心化通信层,任何人都可以使用,而且它在世界各地都能运行。

But the Internet is a global decentralized communications layer that anyone can use, and it works everywhere in the world.

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尽管存在这样那样的中心化风险、漏洞以及它所依赖的那些有这样那样问题的组件,但比特币之所以能在互联网上存在,正是因为互联网本身仍然是一个开放的、无需许可的系统,可供其构建。

Even with all of its centralization risks here or there, and its vulnerabilities, and the the dependencies that it relies on that have, you know, this problem or that problem, whatever it is, Bitcoin has been able to exist on the Internet because the Internet remains an open permissionless system as well or for it to build on.

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但你知道吗?

But you know what?

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我们并非以完美的方式走到今天。

We did not get here in the perfect way.

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互联网并不完美。

The Internet is not perfect.

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认为比特币会沿着完美路径发展的想法——我特别要对ProFilter派说——认为会形成完美文化,每个人都会为比特币的最大利益做正确的事,永远不会倒退,比特币永远不会面临风险或走上货币极端主义者不喜欢的道路,或出现不符合比特币成为全球性无需许可去中心化货币这一完美路径的发展——这种想法简直是痴人说梦。

The idea that Bitcoin is gonna have some perfect path, and I'm saying this specifically to the ProFilter side, that there is going to be a perfect culture, and everybody is going to do the right thing for the best of Bitcoin, and there will never be a step backward, or there will never be risks or directions that Bitcoin ends up taking or developments that happen on Bitcoin that the monetary maximalists don't like or that aren't part of the perfect path to Bitcoin being global permissionless decentralized money is a pipe dream.

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这永远不可能发生。

That's never going to happen.

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任何有人参与的系统都意味着会出现千百种不同的方向和进展,所有可能发生的、可能以极其愚蠢或错误方式出现的事情仍会发生,因为这就是人性。

Any system with people in it means that there's going to be a thousand different directions and developments, and any and everything that can happen or can happen very stupidly or incorrectly will still occur because that's how people are.

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但我坚信比特币将作为开放的、无需许可的、去中心化的全球货币存活下去。

But I absolutely believe Bitcoin will survive as open permissionless decentralized global money.

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我并不担心2100万枚比特币的供应上限。

I am not worried about the 21,000,000 Bitcoin limit.

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我不认为这是生死攸关的问题。

I do not believe this is existential.

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我确实相信存在更好的选择,值得探讨这个选择究竟是什么。

I do believe there is a better option, and it's worth talking about what that option is.

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而且绝对没有人能因为我会写代码、读过比特币资料、擅长哲学或精通经济学就断言——

And there's absolutely nobody who can say that because I know some code or because I read a bunch of stuff about Bitcoin or because I'm really good at philosophy or I'm really good at economics.

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绝对没有人能根据我的职业或知识就宣称只有我才掌握正确答案,技术现实就是如此,其他人都该闭嘴,你们的意见不值一听,你们无话可说,而我也不会听信,因为这根本站不住脚。

There is absolutely nobody that can say because of what I do or the thing that I know, I'm the one who has the right answer, and the technical reality is this, and everybody else can shut up, and you don't have a you don't have an opinion worth hearing, and you have nothing to say, and I'm not gonna listen to you because that's not even slightly true.

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这是在诉诸比特币根本不具备的权威。

That is an appeal to an authority that Bitcoin does not have.

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根本不存在什么权威。

There is no authority.

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我认识很多以太坊开发者,他们或许能写出优秀的交易软件,但对货币、经济学、比特币与以太坊不同操作的文化后果、甚至是否需要区块链都一窍不通。

I know plenty of Ethereum devs who could probably write really good transaction software and don't know jack shit about money or economics or the cultural consequences of doing certain things on Bitcoin versus Ethereum or whether or not you need a blockchain at all.

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会写代码并不意味着他们能对围绕比特币的所有决策给出终极答案。

Just because they can write code doesn't mean they have the end all be all answer of every decision that should ever be made around Bitcoin.

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如果你这样对待他人,他们就不会信任你。

If that's how you treat other people, they're not gonna trust you.

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我们从这篇文章中有所收获了吗?

Have we got something out of this article?

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我认为非常值得深入探讨。

I think I think it's very worth digging into.

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我希望你们能听进去,不论你们对这个具体问题持何种立场,我认为了解这个很有用。

I I hope you listen whether regardless of whether you are on this this or that side of the aisle for this particular issue, I I think this is useful to know.

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就像我说的,当我试图弄清楚某件事时,我会阅读我能找到的所有资料。

And like I said, when I'm trying to figure something out, I I read everything I can get.

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说到这里,其实Shinobi有一篇关于这个话题的文章我们会读,但我想稍微分散一下,以免这期节目变成OpReturn专场。

And on that note, I there's actually a piece by Shinobi we will be reading about this particular topic, but I wanna kinda spread it out so that it just doesn't this show doesn't become the OpReturn show.

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将最佳滤波器效果转化为听觉体验。

The best in filters made audible.

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这里是OpReturn Audible。

This is OpReturn Audible.

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所以我不确定具体什么时候会做,但快排到了。

So I don't know exactly when I'll do it, it's coming up.

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很快就会安排上。

It's coming up soon.

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我只是想稍微分散一下内容。

I just wanna spread it out a little bit.

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我们将讨论Shinobi的一篇文章,那篇显然又是在激烈地,怎么说,纯粹在贬低滤波器派。

So we will be covering a piece by Shinobi that's obviously aggressively, again, like, just shits on filter people.

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所以提前警告,提起精神做好准备,并订阅Bitcoin Audible。

So be warned, pull your panties up, and get ready, and subscribe to Bitcoin Audible.

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感谢Ledin,l e d n点i o,提供比特币抵押贷款服务。

Shout out to Ledin, l e d n dot I o, for Bitcoin backed loans.

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我已经使用它们一段时间了,对此非常满意。

I've been using them for a while, and I'm very happy with it.

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我是说,没有什么是完美的,显然都存在风险。

I mean, nothing is perfect and obviously has risk.

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但如果你还没了解过比特币抵押贷款,你真的应该试试,要找一家值得信赖的公司,那种经验丰富的老手。

But if you haven't checked out Bitcoin backed loans, you really should, and use a trustworthy company, somebody who's been around the block.

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我在节目说明里给你留了个专属链接。

And I got a special link for you down in the show notes.

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特别感谢Synonym和pubkey(pubky)。

Shout out to Synonym and pubkey, pubky.

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应用。

App.

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我很快会发布一个关于解决登录问题的视频。

I've actually got a video coming soon about solving the login problem.

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这非常应景,所以你会听到相关消息。

It's super relevant, so you'll hear about it.

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还要感谢HRF对节目的支持。

Then a shout out to the HRF for supporting the show.

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最后是Gitchroma,那些致力于让比特币社区关注我们健康问题的比特币玩家们。

And lastly, Gitchroma, the Bitcoiners trying to make Bitcoiners aware of our lite health.

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在节目说明里可以找到他们的所有信息。

Find them all right down in the show notes.

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折扣、赠品、专属链接,应有尽有。

Discount, goodies, special links, you name it.

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好了,各位。

Alright, guys.

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别忘了感谢那些一直在转发、让更多人知道我节目的人。

Don't forget to a shout out to a few of the people who've been, you know, reposting and letting people know about my episodes.

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这真的太棒了。

That's that's freaking awesome.

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谢谢你们。

Thank you.

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这对我们帮助很大。

That goes a long way.

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如果你想留下评论,那将是对我们极大的帮助,而且是免费的。

And if you wanna leave a review, that's a massive help and free to do.

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我们下期节目再见。

And I will catch you on the next episode.

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在那之前,这就是我的小小建议。

And until then, that's my two sats.

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生活的意义不在于发现自己。

Life isn't about finding yourself.

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生活的意义在于创造自己。

Life is about creating yourself.

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——萧伯纳

George Bernard Shaw.

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