#343：梦幻选秀：卡牌游戏

大家好，欢迎收听第343期桌游狂轰滥炸播客。我是马克，担任绿色坦克角色，一如既往地与橙色坦克尼尔搭档。你好。还有红色坦克凯伦。

Hello, and welcome to episode 343 of the board game barrage podcast. My name is Mark. I am the green tank, and I'm joined as always by Neil in the orange tank. Hello. And Kellen the red tank.

大家好。我会全程参与本期节目。

Hello. I am here for the whole episode.

终于一劳永逸地解决了那些音频问题。所以我们可以顺利开始了。今天这期节目我们将完全聚焦卡牌游戏——虽然我们是桌游播客，但今天我们要抛开棋盘。或许会成为有史以来最'无板化'的一期，毕竟我们要进行卡牌游戏精选环节。

Finally got those audio issues worked out once and for all. So we're good to go. And we are good to go for today's episode, which is gonna be all about card games. We are a board game podcast, but today we eschew the boards. We're gonna be as boardless, perhaps, we'll see, as we ever are in doing a card game draft.

我们对卡牌有着执着的回归情结

We have a pension Return

回归到卡牌精选环节。马克，你该说得专业点。重录一遍。我们舍弃棋盘，执着于卡牌。

to the draft. For cards. Mark, you should sound smart. Rerecord. A shoe, the boards with the pension for cards.

我不确定'pension'具体指什么，但听起来很贴切。

I don't know Oh, I like that. Pension means, but it sounds like it fits.

听起来很恰当。

It sounds appropriate.

是的。很合适。对吧？

Yeah. It it fits. Right?

行得通。是的。确实如此。确实如此。绝对没问题。

It works. Yeah. It does. It does. Absolutely.

绝对没错。你...你那个主意太天才了。所以Callon说的内容稍后会发生。和往常一样，对于我们的任何草案，你都可以访问boardgamebarrage.com/draft，为你最喜欢的合集投票，并且有可能

Absolutely. You you that was genius. So what Callon said is gonna be happening later. And as always with any of our drafts, you can go to boardgamebarrage.com/draft and vote on which collection you like the most and potentially

钱，钱，钱，钱啊美元。不对。Mark你在说什么，为什么你这么吝啬？

Money, money, money, Money dollar. No. What are you talking Mark, why are you so stingy?

别...你为什么总要不断提高它？

Don't Why do you gotta keep upping it?

人们想要钱。

People want money.

你得把它降下来，才能让高点感觉更高。三重乐趣。我们是三重80三重。

You gotta bring it back down to make the heights feel a higher. Triple fun. We're triple 80 triple.

一百五？不。不。不。

One fifty? No. No. No.

一百五？

One fifty?

不。不。不。一百。一百。

No. No. No. 100. 100.

中间那个呢？

What about the middle?

马克，你是人民的一份子吗？

Mark, are you a man of the people?

你不能一直这样。你不能一直加码。这很有趣。必须保持赌注

You can't keep doing this. You can't keep upping the stakes. It's fun. Gotta keep the stakes

我感觉充满活力。我感觉精神抖擞。

I feel alive. I feel a verve.

你就像个赌徒。就像在赌场里。只有这时候你才感觉活着。好吧。我们来搞个100美元活动。

You're like a gambler. You're like at the casino. This is the only time you feel alive. Okay. We'll do a 100.

我们将送出100美元。请访问boardgamebarrage.com/draft，为你最喜欢的游戏合集投票，并有机会赢得——感谢Kellen——一张100美元的礼品卡，可在你选择的游戏商店使用，不限美国地区，因为我们已有来自世界各地的许多获奖者，尤其是澳大利亚。所以澳大利亚的朋友们？

We'll do a 100. So go to boardgamebarrage.com backslash draft and vote on the collection that you like the best and potentially win, thanks to Kellen, a $100 gift certificate to the gaming store of your choice that is not limited to The USA because we have had many winners from around the world, especially Australia. So you Australians out there?

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。你们最有可能赢得这个。所以我强烈鼓励大家去投票。但在开始之前，我们要讨论三款卡牌游戏——巧的是我们都玩过。Nielen将首先介绍Kinesia's money的再版。

Yeah. You are most likely to win this. So I would definitely encourage you to get out the vote. But before we get into that, a discussion about three card games coincidentally, we all played. So Nielen is gonna start that off with a discussion about the reprint of Kinesia's money.

我将谈论一款Sitz Saxon经典作品Venture。最后，当Kellen介绍钓鱼游戏时，Freesa也会加入我们。那么，Nielen，给我们讲讲Money吧。

I'm gonna be talking about a Sitz Saxon classic venture. And then finally, Freesa is gonna be brought on board when Kellen talks to us about fishing. So, Nielen, tell us about money.

Money。正如Mark所说，Money是Ryno Kita设计的游戏。这是一款相当老的游戏，1999年出版，刚刚以精美豪华的复刻版形式再版——正如All Play一贯的做法，但仍然是个小巧的盒子。这款卡牌游戏主要围绕竞价系统展开，你拥有一套货币卡牌。

Money. So money, as Mark said, is a Ryno Kita game. This is a fairly old one. This is from 1999 that has just been reprinted in a lovely lavish reproduction as all play often does, but still in a nice little small small box. This is a card game that is primarily oriented around a bidding system where what you have is a deck of currency cards.

如果我没记错的话，有七种不同的货币，每种货币有九张不同面值的卡牌，20、30，一直到60左右。但具体是三张20、三张30、一张40、一张50和一张60。所有这些卡牌洗混后分给玩家作为起始手牌。然后每轮，你们要同时选择任意数量的卡牌背面朝下放置。数三二一，同时翻开。

There are, I think, seven different currencies, if I remember correctly, and each of the currencies come in nine different cards with different nominations on them, twenty, thirty, all the way up to, I think it is 60, something like that. But there's three twenties, three thirties, a 40, a 50, and a 60. All those cards get shuffled and distributed to the players to create your opening hand. And then round by round, what you're gonna do is simultaneously choose any number of those cards to hold face down. Go three two one reveal.

所有人亮出自己的出价牌，并将其正面朝上放在你面前的桌子上。中间还有两个随机排列的银行牌阵列，比如银行一号、银行二号。你们正在竞拍的是按最高出价顺序从桌上选择物品的权利。所以出价最高的人可以从桌上选择一件物品拿走。这可能只是保留你自己的出价牌。

Everyone reveals their bids, and you place it face up on the table in front of you. There's also a randomized two arrays in the middle of just kind of the bank cards, like what bank one, bank two. And what you're doing is bidding for the right to pick from anything on the table in highest bid order. So whoever bid the most amount of money gets to choose something from the table to take. That could just be keeping your own bid.

你只需把它拿回自己手中。这是你的了，你就完成了。或者你也可以拿走别人的出价牌。然后你把你的出价牌放在他们原来放牌的位置。

You just take it back into your head. It's it's yours. You're done. Or you could take someone else's bid. So then you put your bid in where their cards were.

你拿走他们的出价牌，这现在就是你的手牌。你也退出本轮。或者你可以与其中一个中央阵列交换。所以你始终只是用你出的价与桌上某个标的物进行交换，无论是其他玩家的、中间的还是其他的。

You take their bid. That's now your hand. You're also out of the round. Or you could swap with one of the center arrays. So you're always just exchanging what you bid with one of the lots that's sitting around the table, whether it's another player's or the middle or so on.

一旦你拿走另一个玩家的出价牌，他们立即退出。否则，你们按大致反向的出价顺序继续，直到每个人都从桌上拿走了某样东西，这一轮就

As soon as you take another player's bid, they go immediately. Otherwise, you proceed in sort of reverse bid order until everyone has taken something from the table, and that is the end

结束

of the

了。你重置中央阵列，开始另一轮，继续直到整副牌用完。游戏结束时你的目标非常简单，就是收集各种单一货币。所以游戏结束时你手中持有的每种货币，会根据金额所在区间计分。这是我很喜欢的一点，因为你知道，如果任何一种货币的最高总额是300，你只有超过200才能获得高分。

round. You reset the middle arrays, you start another round, and you keep going until you go through the entire deck. What you're trying to do at the end of the game, very, very simple, is just assemble collections of individual currencies. So for each currency that you have in your hand at the end of the game, you will score based on what range the money is in. And this is one of the things I really liked about this, which is that, you know, if the total amount of currency you can have in any one type is 300, you're only really scoring well if you're getting above 200 in that currency.

如果你的分数超过100，你只能获得该金额与100的差值。比如说你得到150，那种货币你只能得50分。如果低于100，那种货币你就得零分。所以你肯定想达到100，但更想超过200，因为那样就能获得全额。所以如果金额在200到300之间，就能获得大笔回报。

If you're scoring above 100, you're only getting just kind of the difference between that amount and a 100. Let's say you score one fifty, you're only scoring 50 points for that currency. If you score below a 100, you're getting zero for that currency. So you definitely wanna be at 100, but you really wanna be above 200 because then you get the full amount. So the big payout if you get between 200 and 300 in the amount.

所以你就像是被激励去专攻某一领域。你还会因为收集特定货币的卡牌组合而获得奖励——每集齐二十张同种货币卡牌就能获得奖励分数。每集齐三十张同种货币卡牌也能获得奖励分数，此外还有这些金银卡牌混在其中，收集它们就能直接获得固定分数。所以在竞标过程中有各种不同的激励，但由于你获得的卡牌同时也是你在后续回合中要消耗的卡牌，这始终是一个评估过程：我现在是否应该退出，因为这次竞标可能很值钱？我现在看到了获取高价值得分机会的可能性，所以我愿意用上一轮获得的资源来换取这个机会。

So you're like incentivized to specialize. You're also getting bonuses for sets of cards every three twenty of a specific currency you have gets you bonus points. Every three thirty years of a specific currency you have gets you bonus points, and then there's also these gold and silver cards kind of thrown into the mix that are just flat points as you collect them. So a bunch of different incentives as you're grabbing these bids, but because the cards you're picking up or also the cards you're spending on subsequent rounds, it's always this evaluation of, okay, do I get out of this now because it's kind of worth a lot of money for a good bid? I now see an opportunity to grab something that's gonna be worth a lot of points, so I kind of spend what I got last round in order to take that.

游戏过程中，你需要在不断切换获取目标之间找到很多乐趣。Callan，你也和我一起玩了《Money》。你对这个游戏有什么看法？

Lots of just kind of fun switching back and forth between what you're trying to acquire as the game progresses. Callan, you also played money with me. What did you think about this?

我玩的是《Money》的小盒卡牌版本，没有拟人化动物。而我超爱拟人化动物。你懂我意思吗？就像把它们加到所有东西里。我是这个意思吗？

So I have money, the small box card game version without anthropomorphic animals. And I love anthropomorphic animals. Do you know what I mean? Like add them to everything. Is that what I'm saying?

没错。加到《战争之犬》里。你懂我意思吗？你知道我指的是什么吗？但听着，我觉得这个游戏的机制很有意思，你需要决定是否要窃取其他人的竞标。

Yeah. Add them to dogs of war. You know what I mean? You know what I'm referencing? But listen, I thought that the system that this game has is interesting, whereby you are deciding whether or not you're gonna steal other folks' bids.

还有就是你可能在游戏中途突然抛弃某种货币转向另一种货币，我觉得这个设定很有趣。但我不认为这个游戏能跻身我心中Knizia卡牌游戏的顶级行列——比如《上流社会》，这是另一个Reiner Knizia的卡牌游戏，我敢肯定它有拟人化动物版本，如果你好这口的话。但我不是兽迷，所以我拒绝Ryder Knutsen的《Money》。这就是我的评价。把这话印在盒子上吧。

And then the idea that you may, like, mid game just, like, dump out of a type of currency and go into another currency, I thought it was interesting. But I don't know that the game rose to, like, the upper echelon of Kinesia card game titles for me where I'm like, oh, I wanna run that back like let's say a high society, which is another Reiner Kinesia card game that I'm sure has an anthropomorphic animal edition if that's what you're into. But I am not a furry, so I reject money by Ryder Knutsen. There's my review. Put that on the box.

我觉得这说到了点子上。虽然我认为这是个优秀合格的游戏——毕竟这是Ryder Knutsen的游戏，而且有人认为它有重印的价值。它在自己的领域做得很好。我同意它确实算不上Reinhard Knizia竞标游戏中的顶级作品，甚至比不上你刚才说的那些小盒卡牌游戏，比如《上流社会》或《现代艺术》那种级别的游戏。

I think that that kind of gets to the heart of it, which is that I while I think it's a good competent game, like, you know, it is after all a Ryder Knutsen game, and someone saw enough value in it to reprint it. It is it's a good at what it's doing game. I agree that it's not really in the upper echelons of even Reinhardtzeer bidding games. You know? It even the ones that are kind of the small boxy card game stuff you said, like high society or modern art or that caliber of game.

对我来说，它确实达不到那些游戏的水平。而且我认为现在有很多其他游戏都在类似领域竞争，比这个游戏最初发行时的竞争环境激烈得多。所以它是否还能保持竞争力？我不太确定。

Like, it's just not really at the same level of those for me, and I think that there are a lot of other games are kind of operating on a similar space now that it's just it's much more competitive than when this game necessarily was released. So does it hold its own still? I'm not sure.

我们来个旁白吧。我们可以，比如，为这个配首歌。马克，哒哒哒哒。这是个旁白。你懂我意思吗？

Let's have a sidebar. We could do, like, a song for this. Mark, da da da da. It's a sidebar. You know what I mean?

对。对。那就播放

Yeah. Yeah. So put play

那个

that one

就在这里。

right here.

就像这样。好吧，对，音乐要开始了。对吧？就在那里？好的。

It's like okay. Well, yeah, the music will go. Right? Right there? Okay.

太好了。音乐其实已经开始了。哦，好的。对。对。

Great. Music's going, actually. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

是的。那么现在说旁白。就像在媒体、电影、电视、书籍和游戏中，有那么多内容，你会推荐人们玩7分（满分10分）的作品吗？我说的是电影、书籍、电视和桌游。7分值得投入时间吗？

Yeah. So now sidebar. It's like there's so much in media, movies, TV, books, and games that would you recommend people play a seven out of 10? And I say that for movies, books, TV, and board games. Is a seven out of 10 worth investing time in?

我觉得这是个很难回答的问题。我的意思是，我认为如果它除了...我不知道...具有某种特殊意义的话。比如说，哥们，如果我小时候花了很多钱，然后，天哪，我我喜欢

I think that that's a hard question. I mean, I think that if it holds some special significant value other than just I I don't know. Like, man, if I played a lot of money growing up and, oh my god, I I like

我们应该尊重侧边栏的神圣性。我们不是在讨论钱的问题。这是个侧边栏。

to We should Nielan, respect the sanctity of the sidebar. We're not talking about money. This is a sidebar.

再放一遍音乐。抱歉。

Play the music again. Sorry.

哦，是的。是的。不。不。

Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. No.

是的。是

Yeah. Was

好的。回到正题。是的。好吧。人们需要理解侧边栏的意义。

Okay. Go back. Yeah. Well okay. People need to understand the sidebar.

好的。你明白我的意思吗？你是...我认为原则上你是对的，就我的口味而言，也就是说...再说一遍，山姆。我觉得现在很难为此辩护，因为有那么多好东西可用，但这...这感觉是个难以接受的残酷事实。但这个世界几乎没有空间给

Okay. You with me? You're you're I I think that you are in principle right for my taste, which is to say that Say it like again, Sam. I find it hard to justify that these days when there's so much good stuff available, but that's that feels like a hard truth to to accept. But there's no space in the world for almost

七分？是的。是指好的东西吗？

Seven out tens? Yeah. For good stuff?

哇。好吧，我这边有紧急情况。马克，你对我们的旁谈有什么想法吗？

Wow. Well, I got the pressing. Mark, you have a thought on our sidebar?

是的。你具体是指桌游还是泛指整个世界？

Yeah. You're talking about specifically board games or the world in general?

不。不。不。我们在跑题了。所以是泛指整个世界。

No. No. No. We're sidebarking. So it's the world in general.

我会重新开始，我会重新开始音乐。抱歉。重新开始音乐。

I'll restart I'll restart the music. Sorry. Restart the music.

哦，是的。是的。好的。

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

是的。实际上我想我同意你的观点。我想我能猜到你要说什么，凯伦。而且我认为我同意你的看法，鉴于现在有这么多东西，很难推荐七分或仅仅是“还不错”的东西。你知道，这取决于一个人处于桌游之旅的哪个阶段，因为我认为如果你刚开始玩，你会想玩所有游戏，我理解这一点。

Yeah. I'm actually I think I'm with you. I think I can guess where you're going, Kellen. And I think I'm with you that it is hard to recommend sevens or things that are are just good given the just the amount of of stuff out there. You know, it depends on where a person is in their, like, board gaming journey because I think if you're early on, you just wanna play everything, and I get that.

我认为这是进入这个爱好的一个很自然的酷炫部分。但我觉得一旦你沉浸其中一段时间后，你就会开始想要那些更有趣的东西，或者更棒的东西，因为你意识到外面真的有太多太多真正优秀的东西了。

And I think that's a cool natural part of getting into the hobby. But I think I think once you're in it for a while, then you start wanting, like, the more interesting stuff or the or the or the greater stuff because you realize how much really, really good stuff there is out there.

没有什么比你的注意力更珍贵了。所以当人们把注意力给你时，你必须珍惜它。因此，你的生活中没有空间容纳那些七分（平庸）的东西。现在我们来轰轰轰轰（加速前进）。

There is nothing more precious than your attention. And so when people give it to you, you have to treasure it. Ergo, there's no room in your life for seven out of tens. Now we do the vroom vroom vroom vroom.

是的。

Yep.

回来。是的。题外话结束。

Back. Yeah. Sidebar adjourned.

不过，题外话。

Sidebar however.

如果你是一个必须制作游戏内容的桌游内容创作者，《金钱》玩一次还挺有意思。但对其他所有人来说，我会说：继续前进吧。来来去去，哎呀，全是前戏。这是我的盒子。你能听到吗？

Money is interesting to play once if you're a board game content creator who has to make content about games. And for everyone else, I would say moving on. And comings and goings, oops, all foreplay. Here's my box. Can you hear it?

进垃圾桶了。希望你听到了。

Going into the trash. I hope you heard that.

这本身就是一个评判。

That is a judgment right there.

不，不是。没有人喜欢Kaneetha医生

No. It's not. I no one likes doctor Kaneetha

对我来说。'垃圾'不是一个评判吗？

for me. Trash is not a judgment?

我没有把它扔进垃圾桶。

I didn't throw it in the trash.

你已经评判了这个游戏。你把它拿到哪里去了？它不在

You've you've judged the game. Where'd take It's not see

地板上，机器人。别告诉他们我把它扔进垃圾桶了。我不是Vasco先生。这不是夏威夷或者他扔进垃圾桶或从屋顶扔下去的其他什么东西。

it on the floor, bot. Don't tell them I put it in the trash. I'm not mister Vasco. This is not Hawaii or whatever else he threw in the garbage can or off his roof.

好的。所以你是通过做扔垃圾的音效，你是在说这个游戏不错。只是澄清一下。

Okay. So you were by doing the sound effect of a throne game, you were you were saying this is a good one. Just clarifying.

没错。你算是看透我了。

Yep. You figured me out.

那是Allplay发行的钱币。在你附近的垃圾桶里就能找到。

That is money by Allplay. Find it in trash receptacles near you.

至于Kickstarter豪华独家配件，咱们就更不用提了。

And let's not even get started on the Kickstarter deluxe exclusive components.

好了。咱们来聊聊另一款关于金钱的卡牌游戏。我有机会体验了《Venture》，这款游戏由多家公司出版。我玩的是Eagle Griffin版本，但它其实被许多不同公司出版过，设计者是大名鼎鼎的西德·萨克森。如果想深入了解这位奠基性设计师，欢迎收听我们在第282期专门为他制作的设计师聚焦节目。

Alright. Let's talk about another card game about money. I got a chance to play Venture, published by a lot of folks. The version I played was a Eagle Griffin edition, but it's been published by a lot of different companies and designed by the one and only Sid Saxon. And for those interested in hearing more about this foundational designer, feel free to check out our designer spotlight episode all about him in episode two eighty two.

《Venture》表面上是关于金钱和建造巨型企业的卡牌游戏。但如果听起来很复杂，别担心，因为它本质上就是款卡牌游戏。游戏机制是：在你的回合中，面前会有一系列由卡牌代表的不同公司。这些公司分为六种花色，每种花色代表一个行业，不过这点并不重要——重点在于它们都是不同的花色。

Venture is a card game ostensibly about money and building mega corporations. But if that sounds like a lot, don't worry about it because it's really just a card game at its heart. The way it works is that on your turn, you're gonna have array of different companies represented by cards in front of you. The companies come in six different suits, each suit representing its own industry, but that's not really important. It's each one is a suit.

每张卡牌上方会标有从a到f的若干字母。可能只有一个字母，比如单个b；也可能有多个，例如b e f。字母数量对应公司的成本。所以只有一个字母的公司/卡牌成本最低，为1000万。而拥有五个字母（卡牌最多可显示六个字母中的五个）的公司成本最高，应该是2400万——我得说清楚是2400万。

And each card is gonna have a number of letters from a through f on top. It might just be a single letter like a single b for example, or it might be a b e f for example. The number of letters corresponds to the cost of the company. So a company slash card with just one letter is gonna cost the minimum, which is a thousand. Whereas a company with five of the six letters, which is the maximum number of letters a card can have, is gonna cost the maximum, which is 24 I should should say 24,000,000.

我们说的可是大买卖。所以成本范围是800万到2400万。这里说的可不是几千块的小数目。你回合中的主要行动就是购买这些卡牌来建造你的巨型企业，而购买方式就是用手里的这些钞票卡牌来支付。

We're talking about big bucks here. So it's 8,000,000 up to 24,000,000. We're not talking about thousands here. So the main thing you're gonna be doing on your turn is buying these cards, building your mega corporations. And the way that you do that is with these money cards that you can have in your hand.

这些卡牌的面值从100万到2000万不等，每回合结束时你会获得两张。所以你可能会想，对手回合结束时抽到两张2000万的卡牌，而我抽到一张100万和一张300万的，这似乎很不公平，在这个游戏中我该如何应对？这里有个有趣的机制：100万、300万、500万和800万这些低面值卡牌上都带有三种符号之一——圆形、方形或三角形。如果你收集到两张符号相同但面值不同的卡牌，这套组合就价值1600万。

These cards range from 1,000,000 to 20,000,000, and you get two of them per turn at the at the end of your turn. So you might be saying to yourself, well, it seems pretty unfair that my opponent might draw at the end of the turn 2 $20,000,000 cards, and I draw a 1 and a 3,000,000, and how am I supposed to work with that in this game? Well, there's an interesting twist here because the one, three, five, and eight million dollar cards, which are the lowest value ones, all have one of three symbols on them. There's either a circle, square, or triangle. And if you collect two cards with the same symbol but of different denominations, that set is now worth 16,000,000.

比如我有一张钻石符号的100万卡和一张钻石符号的300万卡，这套组合就价值1600万。如果收集到三张符号相同但面值不同的卡牌，价值3200万。最后，如果集齐四张符号相同的低面值卡牌，这套组合就价值6400万。这样设计是为了鼓励玩家保留这些低面值卡牌，因为它们可能带来指数级增值。在你的回合中，要用这些资金卡购买不同公司，然后将买到的公司卡放在面前分成不同堆叠。

So if I have a 1,000,000 diamond card and a 3,000,000 diamond card, that set is now worth 16. If you get three cards with the same symbol but of different denominations, that's worth 32. And finally, you get all four of these low value cards but with the same symbol on it, that set is now worth 64,000,000. So it's an incentive to hang on to some of these lower value cards and give them a little bit more worth because it can really multiply exponentially. Anyway, so on your churn, you're gonna be using these money cards to buy different companies and then you're gonna place the company cards that you buy in front of yourself in different sort of piles.

只要同一堆叠中的所有卡牌至少有一个相同字母，不同颜色的卡牌就可以放在一起。例如，我可以将橙色、红色和蓝色卡牌放在同一堆，只要它们至少有一个共同字母。当然，共同字母越多越好，但至少需要一个共同字母才能堆叠。除了资金卡外，还有一种收购卡会增加游戏互动性——你可以对对手使用这种卡，夺取他们某堆最顶端的卡牌归入自己的组合。

And the cards can go on the same pile as other cards as long as they share at least one letter among all the cards in that set or pile, but all those suits are different. So for example, I could put an orange, a red, and a blue card in front of me in one sort of pile as long as they all shared at least one letter in common. Preferably, you want to have more than one letter in common in these sets, but you must have at least one letter in common to stack cards on on a set. Throwing a wrench into your plans to do this and promoting some interactivity between the players is another type of card that you can get in your hand aside from the money cards, which are these takeover cards. You play them on somebody else, on one of your opponents, in order to take over one of their cards to your own set.

任何对手堆叠最顶端的卡牌都可以成为你打出的收购卡的目标。所有这些行动都是为了第三种可抽取的卡牌——除了资金卡和收购卡，最后还有计分卡（我认为叫盈利卡）。当抽到这种卡时，游戏暂停，所有玩家计算面前所有堆叠的总价值。

Anybody else's top card on any of their piles is eligible for a takeover card that you play. You're doing all of this for the third type of card that you can draw. Again, you've got the money cards, you've got these takeover cards, and finally, there are these basically scoring cards that you can draw. I think they're called profit cards. When these cards are drawn, the game stops and everybody scores all the piles they have in front of them, all the sets they have in front of them.

游戏规则是这样的：你必须至少有三张牌组成一套才能得分。同样，至少要共享一个字母才能得分。但如果你有一套包含全部六种花色的牌组，就能获得20个胜利点（虽然不叫胜利点，但意思相同）。这套完整的六花色牌组比五张牌的牌组得分高得多——五张牌一套得8分，而三张牌一套只能得1分。

The way that works is that you must have at least three cards in a set to score. Again, sharing at least one letter to score anything. But if you have a pile containing all six different suits, you get 20 victory points. It's not called victory points, it's called something else, but you get 20 points in that case. And that's that full six suited set is exponentially better than having five I think having five cards in a set is worth eight points all the way down to having three cards in a set is worth one point.

所以集齐六张牌组成一套在得分上是一个巨大飞跃，这也会让你成为其他玩家使用接管卡的目标。因为一旦看到有人集齐了六种花色，你就有强烈动机去削弱他们的优势。此外，如果你能构建一套不仅共享一个字母，而是共享多个字母的牌组（这很难做到），那么在计分时你的得分会乘以牌组共享的字母数量。比如我有一套六花色牌组能得20分，但如果所有牌共享三个字母（这极其困难），那么20分乘以3就是60分。

So getting all six cards in your set is a a really high jump in terms of scoring, and that makes you, again, a target to people playing these takeover cards. Because once you see them somebody having a full set of all six suits, you are very much incentivized to take them down a notch. In addition, if you're able to construct a set that doesn't just share one letter in common, but multiple letters in common, which can be tough, then you multiply your score when these scoring things happen by the number of letters that the pile has in common. So again, if I have that pile that contains all six suits, I would get 20 points. But if all the cards in that set share, say, three letters, which again is exceedingly hard, then I multiply that 20 points by three and be worth 60 points.

游戏中有趣的选择点在于：是否保留小面值的钱币？因为游戏中进行任何交易时都不会找零。这就像是在问：要不要准备刚好零钱以免损失？但反过来，你又会失去那些低面值钱币卡——如果组成套牌它们可能增值。另一个决策是要不要构建这些高分牌组，从而成为对手的目标。总之，玩过《Venture》后，我很惊讶这款游戏居然这么冷门。

So interesting decision points in this game are whether or not to hold on to smaller denomination money because whenever you make any transaction in the game, you don't get a change. So it's sort of like a, do you want to give exact change to not lose money? But then again, you're losing those low value money cards that can multiply if you have a set. There's also the decision you have to construct these high scoring sets of cards and then again make yourself a target for your opponents. Anyway, after playing Venture, I was surprised to have heard so little about it.

在我多年的桌游生涯中，你总会听到很多关于其他Saxon游戏的讨论，这是理所当然的，比如你肯定听说过Acquire。我是老板。Acquire当然是的。Stooth。停不下来。

In all my years of board gaming, you hear lots about other Saxon games and justifiably so, you hear a lot about, you know Acquire. I'm the boss. Acquire, of course, is yep. Stooth. Can't stop.

奇怪。就这样。一大堆游戏。Focus，这个我

Bizarre. There you go. A whole bunch of them. Focus, which I've

从没听说过，但它在

never heard of, but is on

这个列表上。我觉得Venture不常被提及。而我个人会把Venture和所有这些经典游戏相提并论。我觉得在很多方面，它有点像卡牌游戏形式的Acquire。我认为它做到了你对大型游戏卡牌版的所有期待：保留了相同的感觉，但规则更简单，耗时更短。

this list. I don't think you hear about Venture very often. And I personally would put Venture up with all those cards. I think in many ways, it feels sort of like a choir in a card game sort of form. And I think it does what you want card game versions of bigger games to do, which is have that same sort of feeling, but with maybe less rules overhead and with less time investment.

我觉得它在很多方面就像是Acquire的快速卡牌版。而且这个游戏超级便宜。它被多家公司出版过，二手市场大概10美元就能买到，全新版本也贵不了多少。

I it it feels like a card game quicker version of acquire in a lot of ways. And so this game is super cheap. Again, it's been published by a bunch of different companies. I think it's, like, $10 on the secondary market. I think new copies are not much more than that.

我会说，如果你喜欢老派、规则简单的经济类游戏，或者甚至不是经济游戏，只是卡牌游戏，我强烈推荐你试试。迷你版包装非常小巧。就是卡牌游戏，容易教学。我觉得那些可能不是桌游玩家但喜欢传统卡牌游戏的家人会喜欢——它有很多类似拉米牌游戏的影子，你需要组合出牌组。

And I'd say if you're a fan of, like, old school, simple rules, economic games, or not even economic games, just card games, I'd say definitely check it out. Mini editions come in a very, very small box. Just card games, simple to teach. I think family members who maybe aren't board gamers but are into traditional card games. Like, this has a lot of, like, echoes of rummy style games where you're trying to put melts down.

我认为他们会玩得开心。再次强调，规则不复杂。我觉得Venture会很适合。所以，再次介绍，这是由Sitzaction设计，多家公司包括Eagle Griffin出版的Venture。我知道3M也出过这个游戏的版本。

I think it would work for them. Again, not overly complicated. I think it would work with Venture. So, again, this is Venture designed by Sitzaction and published by a whole bunch of folks including Eagle Griffin. I know three m did a version of this.

市面上有很多副本。

There's a lot of copies out there.

我看到秘密组织的杰米先生给这个打了8分（满分10分），

I see mister Jamie of the secret cabal has this rated as an eight out of 10,

这

which

很有意思。我从没听任何人谈论过它。所以你是个潮流引领者。

is interesting. I I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak about it ever. So you're a trendsetter. There

没错。我和杰米。

you go. Me and Jamie.

但你在谈论我最喜欢的游戏之一。所以我有点嫉妒我还没试过这个。

But you're speaking about one of my favorites. So I I'm jealous that I have not tried this.

是的。我想我知道你很喜欢《收购》，你知道，这肯定不完全一样。但当我玩的时候，我一时忘了这是款Saxon游戏。我只是在想，这让我想起了什么游戏？然后想到了《收购》，显然，片刻之后，我就想，哦，实际上这很有道理，因为这是款Saxon游戏。

Yeah. I think I think I know you're big on Acquire and, you know, it's it's definitely not the exact same thing. But when I was playing it, I forgot for a second that it was a saxon game. I was just like, what game does this remind me of? And Acquire came to mind and then, you know, obviously, a moment later, I'm like, oh, actually, that's obviously makes a lot of sense because this is a a Saxon game.

那真是太棒了。

So That's awesome.

是的。我觉得你会喜欢的。不过你为什么不跟我们讲讲钓鱼游戏呢？

Yeah. I I think you'll like it. But why don't you tell us about fishing?

好的。我们本可以把这期节目命名为'糟糕，全是卡牌游戏'，但那听起来太色情了。今天我想聊的游戏叫做《钓鱼》，由弗里德曼·弗里萨设计，延续了一个只有他自己明白而别人都不理解的长期传统——F和绿色。这是一款吃墩游戏，遵循一个相当奇怪的规则：你赢的墩越多，得分就越高，但你的牌组会...当其他玩家每轮你获胜时，你会为你捕获的所有鱼（即其他牌）和你赢得的墩计分。

Alright. We could have called this episode oops all card games, but that was too sexual. The game that I wanna talk about today is called Fishing by Friedman Friesa, continuing in a long running tradition that no one else understands but him of f and green. This is a trick taking game that follows a pretty odd arc whereby the more tricks you win, the more points you score, but the your deck is. Whereby the other players each round when you win, you score points for all the fish that you captured aka the other cards and the tricks that you have won.

但每当你没有牌可抽时，你会从一个分级的新牌堆中抽牌加入你的牌组。这些牌最初非常直接，只是牌组中价值更高的数字牌。所以游戏开始时，你知道，所有牌都发出去了，但任何花色的11到18点牌都不在游戏中。不过这些牌会通过这个牌堆添加进来。所以第一轮没有赢任何墩的人会抽一堆牌，他们抽的是11点牌。

But for every card that you do not have with which to draw, you draw from a graduated deck of new cards for your deck. And those cards are very straightforward at first of being just more valuable numbers of the deck. So when the game starts, you know, all the cards are out, but none of the 11 through eighteens for any of the suits are in the game. But those get added with this deck. So the first person who wins no tricks in the first round is drawing a bunch of cards, they're drawing elevens.

而在第一手牌中，没有人有任何11点牌。所以他们赢走了所有牌。突然之间，王牌花色出现了。你知道，在前几手牌中，甚至可能根本没有王牌花色。然后你会获得带有特殊能力的牌，比如能捕获其他牌的零牌，或者这些浮标类的牌，它们会以特殊方式影响下一墩，比如最低点数赢得下一墩。

And in the first hand, no one had any elevens. So they're winning everything. All of a sudden, the Trump suit is showing up. You know, at the first couple of hands, there might not even be a Trump suit. Then you get cards with special powers like a zero that can catch other cards or these sort of buoys that affect the next trick in a special way, like the lowest value wins the next trick.

所以本质上，这个游戏就是这样一种曲线：开局是一种状态，中期是另一种状态，你需要在合适的时机达到巅峰，这对生活如此，对这个游戏也是如此。但它确实有一种奇怪的张力，比如如果你在前三轮赢了每一墩，我认为你肯定会输掉游戏。但你到底什么时候想赢墩呢？因为你必须得分才能赢游戏？我喜欢这个游戏，并欣赏其新颖的机制。尼尔兰，你和我们一起玩了弗里萨的《钓鱼自由》。

And so essentially, the game is this arc whereby the beginning is one thing, the middle is another thing, and you wanna peak at the right moment, which is true for life as it is for this game. But it it does have a weird tension where like if you just win every trick in the first three rounds, I think you will definitely lose the game. But like when do you want to win the tricks because you must score points to win the game? I liked this game and was appreciative of the novel systems. Nieland, you played Fishing for Freedom of Freeza with us.

是的。你觉得怎么样？

Yeah. How did

你宣布这个游戏？

you declare this game?

我认为新颖性完全正确。而且，你知道，我可能更喜欢它一点，但它非常愚蠢。就像，它让我想起了现在非常流行的那种东西，就是，嘿。这是一个技巧游戏，可以向你喜欢技巧游戏的朋友展示，因为它很搞笑，它在玩技巧游戏，但做了一些非常奇怪和有创意的事情。话虽如此，它当然不像近年来出现的许多其他类似游戏那样是技巧游戏玩家的游戏。

I think novelty is exactly right. And I, you know, I I think I maybe liked it a little bit more, but it's incredibly silly. Like, it reminds me of the sort of thing which is very in vogue right now, which is, hey. Here's a trick taking game to show your friends that love trick taking games because it's goofy, and it it's playing off a trick taking, but it's doing something really weird and inventive with it. That said, it's certainly not a trick takers gamery game in the way that a lot of the, you know, a lot of other stuff like that has come up in recent years.

就像，我会说那更像是新泽领域的东西。但是，就像，这感觉就像是，嘿。我们在胡闹。我们都拿到了疯狂的牌。牌变得如此狂野。

Like, I would say that that's kinda more in, like, the Shinzawa realm of things. But, like, this just kind of feels like, hey. We're goofing off. We're all getting crazy cards. The cards get so and so wild.

就像，你第一次打出一张牌，比如15什么的，人们甚至没有意识到那张牌一开始就在牌组里。就像，那很有趣。这种情况在游戏的后半段反复发生。然后你会有海伦描述的那些时刻，你知道，你在前半段跌跌撞撞，但你在正确的时间磨完了整个特殊牌组，突然你的后续手牌就占据了主导地位，你拿到了一大堆分数。正如凯伦所说，在正确的时间这样做至关重要，因为你不想在其他人即将拿到更强牌之前这样做。

Like, the first time you play a card and it's, like, a 15 or something, and people don't even realize that that card was even in the deck to begin with. Like, that's just fun. And that happens repeatedly towards, like, the second half of the game. And then you have those moments like Helen described where, you know, you've been stumbling through the first half, but you'd mill through the entire of that special deck at the right time and suddenly you're following on hands are just like dominating and you're just getting a mass of points. And doing that at the right time as Kellen said is everything because you don't want to do that right before everyone else is about to get even stronger cards.

所以它里面有一些我相当喜欢的趣味系统，但它确实非常像一场嬉戏。

So it got some fun systems in there that I quite like, but it is it is very much a lark for sure.

是的。它很有趣，因为它并不像mino dice/阿瓦隆锦标赛/或者骷髅王那样愚蠢。但它也不像我们在一场硬核的智力死亡竞赛中。所以它介于两者之间，我认为这对很多经常轮换玩各种棋盘游戏或技巧游戏的人来说是有效的，但它不会是我必须推荐的游戏之一。但再次强调，在你所做的事情中拥有那种几乎像是牌组构建的氛围是很有趣的。

Yeah. It is interesting because it's not, like, so silly as to be mino dice slash tournament at Avalon slash, like, Skull King. But it's also not like we're in a hardcore death match of wits. And so it sits somewhere in the middle of that, which I think works for a lot of people who again are cycling through a lot of board games or trick taking taking games, but it would not be one of my must recommends. But again, it is fun to have that sort of almost deck building vibe to what you're doing.

然后，为你的牌组偷东西很有趣，看到你的牌组升级或你的手牌或随便你怎么称呼它，以一种感觉像Frisa的方式，也很有趣。而且，你知道，再次强调，不可能所有东西都是7分（满分10分），但我会说尝试这个比钱更有趣。所以钓鱼比钱好。

And then it's fun to steal stuff for your deck, and it's fun to see your deck like leveling up or your hand or whatever you wanna call it in a way that like feels Frisa like. And, you know, again, everything can't be a seven out of 10, but I would say this is more interesting to try than money. So fishing is better than money.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但绝不可能是撒克逊先生。安息吧。谁死了？

But nothing could be mister Saxon. Rest in peace. Who is dead?

好吧。我本来想问——刚才只是故意绕个弯子。我本来想问，你觉得会有人想玩这个游戏三四次吗？这感觉太像 novelty 游戏了。我是说我自己还没玩过，所以没法凭经验说话，但这感觉像是那种只值得尝试一次的东西。

Okay. Well, I was gonna ask I was just throwing for a loop there. I was gonna ask, could you see anybody wanting to play this like three or four times? This feels like so novelty. I mean, I have not played it myself so I I can't speak from experience, but this feels like a very try it once sort of thing.

和不同的人试一次，给他们展示这个游戏，但似乎没有太多吸引力让人反复玩。

Try it once with different people and show them the game, but doesn't seem like there's much of a draw to play it over and over again.

我本来希望超能力有更多内容，比如更疯狂更离谱的东西。因为实际上你看规则书就会发现，嘿，并没有那么多。我没玩太多次，所以不知道它的发展曲线——前期、中期、后期是怎样的。是的，似乎每次都会遵循非常相似的轨迹。

I was hoping that there was more in the powers, like wackier crazier stuff. Because like you actually look at the rule book and you're like, hey, there's not that many. I didn't play it many times, so I don't know how that arc, the early game versus the mid game versus the late game. Yeah. Like, it would follow pretty similar arcs each time.

所以它确实感觉像是那种在展会上很出彩的游戏，你知道，当你没什么可玩的时候，就这样一轮轮轮换着玩。

So it it does feel like it might be that type of game with shines at a convention, you know, where you don't have something to play and then you rotate through these rounds.

而且后面出现强力卡牌会带来有趣的惊喜，但也就仅此而已了。

And you have the fun surprise of the powerful cards coming later, but that's sort of yeah.

是的。我认为这是一个合理的分类，但你知道，我并不是在进行高水平的钓鱼游戏。我觉得加上这些免责声明很有趣，假设有人会玩钓鱼游戏100到1000次。对吧。我猜从来没有人这样做过。

Yeah. I I think that's a fair categorization, but, you know, I'm not playing high level fishing play. I think it's funny to couch these caveats, you know, assuming that there's someone out there that's playing fishing a 100 to a thousand times. Right. My guess is no one ever has.

而且也可能永远不会有人这样做。但这就是桌游的大众消费。请注意你的注意力。

And it's also possible that no one ever will. But that is the mass consumption of board games. Be mindful of your attention.

我现在就要查一下。玩钓鱼游戏最多的人，你觉得他们玩了多少次这个游戏？

I'm gonna check this right now. The person who's played fishing the most, how many times do you think they've played that game?

根据BGG的数据。

As by BGG.

根据BGG的数据。是的。是的。在那些记录过游戏次数的人中，这个

As by BGG. Yes. Yes. Of those who have logged their plays, this

因为我相信有人测试玩过超过100次。我想说清楚这一点。我确实相信这种情况存在。但就记录的游戏次数而言，我会说有人记录了，我不知道。

because I I believe someone has play tested it more than a 100 times. I wanna be I'm super clear there. I do believe that exists. But of logged Of course. Plays, I would say someone has logged I don't know.

这会很疯狂。有人会有一个单人模式。46次游戏。

This is gonna be crazy. Someone's gonna have a solo mode. A 46 plays.

你离正确答案只差一步。哇。

You are one off the correct answer. Wow.

40 哦，我的天啊。

40 Oh my gosh.

最多的是45次，然后下降到32、28、27、26、22、20。我的意思是，这款游戏已经推出一多年了，但真的没什么人玩过，肯定没有超过20次记录游戏的玩家。我知道这只是桌游玩家中的少数。但这很有趣，值得探究。

45 is the most, and then it drops 32, 28, 27, 26, 22, 20. So I mean, this game's been out for over a year and Nobody's played it really not many people have played it over certainly not over 20 times that have logged games. Again, I know that is a that is a minority of board game players. But that's interesting. Interesting thing to check into.

那玩了45次的那位男士或女士排名是多少？

And how what is the ranking for the man or woman who has played it 45 times?

哦，我知道这个。这是迈克尔，我忘了怎么念这个名字。拼写是w e b e r，但我觉得不是那么发音的。我想他其实是为Freeza做游戏测试的。所以这很有趣。

Oh, I know this. This is Michael I can't I forget how to pronounce the name. It's spelled w e b e r, but I don't think it's pronounced that way. I think he does playtest for Freeza actually. So that's funny.

我相当确定迈克尔是为Freesa做游戏测试的。我不知道他是否给了评分。他可能没有。但他以前确实做过很棒的游戏教学视频，尤其是关于Freesa游戏的。让我看看。

I I'm pretty sure Michael does playtest for Freesa. I don't know if he's given it a score. He probably has not. But he did he used to do really good how to play videos, especially about Freesa games. Let's see.

所以，实际上，你或许可以忽略那个。他很可能是一名游戏测试员，所以也许32次更准确。哦，他给了9分。是的，他是玩得最多的人，他给了9分。

So, actually, you can probably throw that. He's probably is one of the playtesters, and so maybe the the 32 is more accurate. Oh, he's giving it a nine. Yes. He's the person who's played the most, he's giving it a nine.

但我还是认为他是Friso的游戏测试员。我知道他以前会制作——不知道现在是否还在做——但以前在YouTube上发布过非常非常棒的游戏玩法视频。

But I again, I think he is a playtester for Friso. I I know he used to make I don't know if he still does, but used to make very very good how to play videos on YouTube.

他有绿头发吗？

Does he have green hair?

他没有。他没有。

He does not. He does not.

这就是

That's where

他划清界限的地方。他会为Frisa做游戏测试，但不会追随他到那种程度。

he draws draws the line. He'll he'll play test for Frisa, but he won't follow him that far.

而且他不是Frisa。这是我刚才想确认的。

And he is not Frisa. That was what I was checking.

他不是Frisa。他不是Frisa。同样是德国人，但不是Frisa。好了，我们开始选秀吧。

He he is not Frisa. He is not Frisa. Fellow German, but not Frisa. Alright. Let's get into the draft.

正如我们之前提到的，以及我们在前瞻环节讨论的游戏所暗示的——'暗示'这个词不太准确，因为我们直接告诉过大家我们要进行卡牌游戏的选秀环节，但这一期确实非常专注于卡牌游戏。所以我们将进行五轮卡牌游戏的蛇形选秀。我们好久没这么玩了。有人想先开始吗？有人记得上次谁赢了吗？

So as we've mentioned earlier and as the games we've talked about in the upfront have hinted at hinted is not the right word because we flat out told you we're gonna draft card games, but this is a very card game focused episode. And so we are going to be doing a draft of card games, five rounds, snake draft style. It's been a while since we've done this. Anybody wanna go first? Do we know who won the last one?

我不记得了。

I do not.

我可以马上查一下，因为我刚才正好在调取记录。我觉得应该是凯伦赢了。好吧，我们就说是凯伦赢了。

I can find that real quick because I was actually just in the middle of pulling it up. I think that was a Kellen. Okay. We'll say Kellen won.

好的。明白了。凯伦

Okay. Alright. Kellen

亲爱的。赢了。是那次吗？没什么。所以，凯伦，

dear. Has won. Was that? Nothing. So, Kellen,

显然你赢了上次的选秀，所以你可以选择选秀顺位。

you evidently won the last draft, so you get to pick where you draft.

你看，选择首签的问题就在于那个压力

See, the problem with picking first is just the the pressure

重量。

The weight.

人们的

Of people

说还有压力。那倒是真的。

saying And the pressure. That's true.

你是傻瓜吗？你本应该选翼展的，但我们还没就卡牌游戏的定义达成一致。是啊。我们君子协定的条款是什么？

You or are you dummy? You should have picked wingspan, but we're we haven't agreed upon the definition of card game. Yeah. What are the terms of our gentleman's agreement here?

我觉得我们不带任何条款进场，然后没有条款。谁说了蠢话，我们就开战。

I think we go in with no terms, and then No terms. Anybody says anything dumb, we fight.

是的。我觉得我们大致都明白当我们说卡牌游戏时指的是什么。

Yeah. I think that we we kind of all have a rough idea of what we think we mean when we say a card game.

我我认为我们达成共识的一点是，我们不采用BGG的定义

I I think the one thing we have agreed on is that we are not going by the BGG definition

是的。

Yeah.

是的。或者他们如何对游戏进行分类，因为在BGG上任何带卡片的游戏都被定义为卡牌游戏，但我们不打算采用这种分类。

Yeah. Or how they classify games because literally any game with cards in BGG is defined as a card game, which we are not going with.

而且我想，就像凯伦之前说的那样，在这个语境下，《方舟动物园》并不是一款卡牌游戏。虽然它几乎完全由卡片构成，但你知道从宏观角度来看它并不属于卡牌游戏。

And I I think just to, like, put the pin in, like, what Kellen said earlier, like, Ark Nova is not a card game if in the context of, like, of this. As a game that is almost entirely cards, you know that it's not a card game in the grand scheme of things.

我觉得马克为播客发明了一个新口号：不带术语入场，然后当有人说了蠢话，我们就开战。你是这么说的吗？我记不太清了，但这简直完美。

I feel like Mark invented a new slogan for the podcast. Go in with no terms, and then when someone says something dumb, we fight. Is that what you said? I can't remember exactly what it was, but it's the perfect.

没错。没错。没错。这算是我们的宗旨了。是的。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is sort of our ethos. Yeah.

是的。这就是我们的播客。

Yeah. That's the podcast.

准备，投入，战斗。不

Preparation, dive in, fight. Not

你在这里改主意了。毫无准备。太离谱了。大量准备。好几个小时。

You're changing it here. No preparation. Too far. Tons of preparation. Hours and hours.

好吧。我很乐意先开始。

Right. I am happy to go first.

好的。你想随便选一下剩下的顺序吗？

Okay. Do you wanna pick the rest of the order just for funs ies?

是的。哦，你在笑我吗？凯伦、尼尔和马克。对吧？

Yeah. Oh, are you laughing at me? Kellen, Neil, and Mark. Right?

凯伦、尼尔和马克。好的。

Kellen, Neil, and Mark. Okay.

我们不是这样做的吗？

Is that not what we do?

哦，不。不是。我只是随便说了句选第二个，选凯伦

Oh, no. No. I just made literally like pick a go second, pick a go K

哦，不。这样我就能高人一等，选择毫无疑问是有史以来最好的卡牌游戏。这是我的头号游戏。我刚买了三套第四版准备原封不动地当作礼物送人。因为我喜欢在圣诞节——不是圣诞节，是婚礼礼物——送他们一个你知道他们会喜欢的游戏，比如类似行动代号之类的。

m oh, no. So that I can go high where others will go low, and that is to pick what is undoubtedly the best card game of all time. It is my number one game. It is a game that I just bought three copies of the fourth edition to leave sealed and give as gifts. Because I like to do a little like Christmas, not Christmas, wedding present where you give them a game you know they'll like, you know, like something code names adjacent.

然后你只需要加入一点《创新》。你懂我的意思吗？祝愿新人婚姻幸福。《创新》实在太棒了。它的游戏内容远超你的想象。

Then you just throw in a little innovation. You know what I mean? To wish the couple a happy marriage. Innovation is way amazing. It is way more game than you could ever play.

你可以玩上几百次。Fisher先生，不是Friedman Frisa，玩了45次。而在《创新》里可以玩上百次。能把它列入我的清单我真是太高兴了。我知道这是播客听众们的最爱。

You could play it hundreds of times. Mister Fishing, not Friedman Frisa, 45 plays. Hundreds of plays within innovation. I could not be happier to have this in my list. I know it is a fan favorite of people who listen to the podcast.

它正在上升期。越来越火。我们现在有了《创新》的新版本。现在扩展到11个时代了，各位。这是本次选秀最完美的首选。

It is on the upswell. It goes up. We have a new edition of innovation. It goes to eleven now, everybody. It is the perfect first pick of this draft.

我差点以为我可能在第二轮偷到它，但我知道你们俩会出于恶意抢走它，然后...是的。我们就得打起来了。所以我选择《创新》。我为此非常自豪。我能预测Mark会选什么。

I almost thought I could maybe steal it in round two, but then I know the two of you would do it out of spite, and Yeah. We would have to fight. So I am picking innovation. I'm very proud of it. I can predict what Mark will pick.

Nieland，现在轮到你了。是的。去阻止他吧。

Nieland, it is up to you Yeah. To stop him.

嗯，我的意思是，我这里 literally 有一号和二号选择。如果你没选《创新》，我原以为你会选另一个，那我就会选《创新》。所以我要选我的第二选择，也就是《银河竞逐》。

Well, I mean, I I literally had a one and two here. And if you hadn't picked innovation, I assumed you would have picked the other one, and I would have picked innovation. So I'm gonna pick what is the number two, which is Race for the Galaxy.

就在那儿。抓住他。是的。抓到了

There it is. Get him. Yeah. Got

他。我想这原本会是马克的首选之一。

him. And I have to imagine that was gonna be one of Mark's first picks.

抓到他了。

Got him.

是的。我觉得这是一个有趣的例子，虽然我个人并不特别喜欢这款游戏，我想这些年我已经明确表达过这个立场。但我知道它深受喜爱，我知道人们热爱它。我真希望自己能更喜欢它。

Yeah. I I think it is a funny example of a game that I don't particularly love, and I think I've made that position clear over the years. But I know that it is it is beloved. I know that people love it. I I I wish I liked it more.

我想多玩一些。我还没有真正像它值得的那样多地进行线下游玩，主要是在BGA上玩，你知道，这毕竟不是玩卡牌游戏的理想方式。不过，《银河竞速》确实是一款备受喜爱的经典卡牌游戏。

I want to play more of it. I've still not really played it in person as much as it deserves. I've mostly played it on BGA and kind of, you know, that's not the ideal way to play a card game at any rate. But, yeah, Race for the Galaxy, beloved beloved classic card game.

我其实认为通过BGA玩《银河竞速》是最好的方式之一，主要是因为省去了维护的麻烦。是的。就是这样

I would actually argue Race for Galaxy and BJ is one of the best ways to play it just because of the the upkeep. But Yeah. That's this

会是的。这很有意思。但不知为何，这并没有让它在我心中地位提升，我想对我个人而言是这样。

would Yeah. That's interesting. But I for whatever reason, it's that has not caused it to rise, I guess, for me personally.

我明白了。我明白了。如果这两款游戏当时我能选的话，我肯定也会选它们。但你说'我们知道马克会选什么'时，我以为你暗示的是我会选另一款游戏——那款我在节目里经常推荐的游戏，但我不会选它。

I get it. I get it. I certainly would have taken both of those games probably if they were available to me here. But that's not what I was thinking you were alluding to when you said we know what Mark's gonna take. Because I thought you were saying that I was gonna take a different game that I have championed quite a bit on the show, but I'm not gonna take it.

哇。因为对我来说，尽管它很棒，但它不符合卡牌游戏的定义。

Wow. Because for me, it falls outside of the definition of a card game as great as it is.

所以我

So I'm

不会选的。没错。没错。正是如此。完全正确。

not gonna I am. That's right. That's right. Exactly. Exactly.

所以相反

So instead

那些没什么用的骰子

the dice that don't do jack

它还有个小棋盘，但更重要的是——其他骰子。对我来说，骰子就有点过头了。我觉得像《银河竞逐》那样带些小筹码的组件还能接受，但骰子对我来说确实越界了。

And it has a little board and but the the bigger thing, other dice. For me, the dice are a step too far. I think you can get away with games having other components like Race for the Galaxy has little chips. I think that's fine. But I the dice for me are are a step too far.

所以我的第一个选择是——虽然感觉已经自毁胜算了——但我还是想选《花火》。好吧。我认为《花火》是最棒的合作卡牌游戏。这些年来我对它的感受起伏不定，但近两年多玩了几次后，我真正体会到它作为卡牌游戏的优秀之处。我觉得它在卡牌游戏中带来了非常耳目一新的体验。

So what I'm gonna go with for my first pick is I feel like I'm already torpedoing my chances to win, but the one that I wanna take here is Hanabi. Alright. Think Hanabi I think Hanabi is the best cooperative card game there is. And my feelings on Hanabi have fluctuated over the years, but having played it a little bit more in the last couple years, I've really appreciated how good it is as a card game. And I think it was, you know, a very refreshing take in card games.

我的意思是，卡牌游戏自古就有。自从人类开始玩游戏，卡牌游戏就是最早出现的游戏类型之一。而《花火》确实以独特新颖的方式突破常规、另辟蹊径。我认为它是一款独一无二的游戏。所以我要选《花火》作为第一个选择——再次声明，我知道这很令人意外。

I mean, card games have been played forever. As long as people have been playing games, card games have been among the the first games played. And I think Hanabi's did sort of like break and and do things in a unique fresh way. And I think it's like a one of a kind game. So I'm gonna take Hanabi for my first one, which again, I know is a surprise.

可以选两个。你能选两个。确实如此。确实如此。

Make two. You get to take two. So That's true. That's true.

现在你要祭出重磅选择了。

Now you're going in with the heavy hitter.

你觉得这是重磅选择吗？

Do you see a heavy hitter?

不。我倒觉得有几个备选。

Nope. Not I see a couple.

我不觉得

I don't

听着，我什么都没看见。我啥也没看到。我不是告密者。我不会告密的，老兄。

see I see nothing. I don't see shit. I'm not a squealer. I'm not gonna squeal, man.

好吧。我打算选择我认为是剩余卡牌游戏中最喜欢的，而且幸运的是它也非常受欢迎。我选择《漫威冠军》。

Alright. I'm gonna I'm gonna go with what I think is my favorite of the card games remaining, and also is thankfully a very popular one. I'm gonna go with Marvel Champions.

我以为你之前就在力推这个，但你这算不上巧妙的文字游戏。

I thought that's what you were championing earlier, but you it wasn't clever wordplay.

对。对。对。这个对我来说差点不符合资格，但主要是因为卡牌的数量问题。不过我认为这不应该成为取消资格的理由。

Right. Right. Right. This is close to not qualifying for me, but that's it's more out of the sort of volume of the cards. And I don't think that should be a disqualifier.

比如，游戏里有很多卡牌。通常当我想到卡牌游戏时，我会觉得，你知道，你可以把所有牌都拿在手里，可以在牌桌上玩。而这个可能稍微大一点，但我觉得，你知道，这就是《漫威冠军》卡牌游戏。我认为它确实是一款卡牌游戏，有资格上榜。

Like, there's a lot of cards in the game. And I generally when I think card games, think, like, you know, you can hold everything in your hand and you can sort of play it on a card table. And this is maybe a little bigger than that, but it I think, you know, this is Marvel Champions, the card game. And I think it is it is a card game. I think it does qualify for this list.

所以选择《漫威冠军》作为第

So going Marvel Champions for number

不知为什么，我以为你不会选它。我以为你不会选那个的。但哦，原来是

For some reason, I thought that that was not gonna get I thought that was not gonna get picked by you. But Oh, that's

你要选什么。有意思。是啊。那本来应该是 你玩过吗？

what you're gonna pick. Interesting. Yeah. That would have been Have you played it?

没有。但我知道 我知道大家都很喜欢它。非常喜欢。

No. But I I know I know people love it. To love.

是啊。当

Yeah. Of

然。所以我觉得我会选 有趣的是现在我在看我的列表，我在想，这些这些我觉得凯伦很可能会选。所以我知道它们轮不到我。这个我觉得有可能轮到我，而这个我知道肯定会轮到我，但可惜顺序和我想要的正好相反。所以我觉得我会选《在你之前》 什么是

course. So I think I'm gonna go it's funny because now I'm now looking down my list and I'm trying to think like, these these are the ones I think Kellen's probably going to pick. So I know they won't make it back to me. Is the one that I think there's a chance makes it back to me, and this is the one I know will make it back to me, but there is a kind of in reverse order of how I'd want to pick them unfortunately. So I I think I'm gonna go with Before you what is

这个在你觉得能轮到的列表里？还是你不想

this in that list of like you think it's gonna make it back? Or do you not wanna

是啊。也许吧。是啊。也许吧。我可能不会说。

Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. I maybe I won't say.

可能我不会说。我选《领土》。

Maybe I won't say. I am gonna go with Dominion.

我是说，难道我会觉得你除了《领土》的所有版本之外还会选别的游戏作为你的第二选择吗？

I mean, did I think that you were gonna pick anything but every game of Dominion ever created as your second pick?

好吧。我想我们得先说明一下，我们这么说具体指的是什么。所以，可能基础版的《领土》应该是...

Okay. Well, I guess we should have to, like, we should caveat, like, what we mean by that. So, I mean, probably base dominion is probably what for the

不，我明白。这是个很棒的游戏。很好的选择。这绝对是个卡牌游戏。

No. I mean, I under I understand. It's a great game. It's great choice. It's definitely a card game.

完全同意。所以它

Totally. So It

它仍然可以说是，我认为对很多人来说，仍然是现存最好的牌库构筑游戏。而且你知道，纯粹的牌库构筑游戏（不是混合类型的）越来越少了，而《领土》可能仍然是其中最好的之一。自从我们做播客以来，它一直稳定在我的前50名。非常棒的游戏。

is it is still arguably to mean, I think to a lot of people, still the best deck builder that exists and also, you know, pure deck builders that are not just deck builder hybrids are rarer and rarer, and Dominion is is still probably one of the best. It's it's it's been consistently in my top 50 as long as we've been doing the podcast. Fantastic game.

绝对热爱《领土》。感谢Nielen选择了它。向Vaquerino致敬。向被低估的《王国建造者》致敬。

Absolutely love Dominion. Love the love. Love Nielen for picking it. Shout out to Vaquerino. Shout out to Kingdom Builder, underrated.

向所有扩展包致敬。向《旭日》致敬，我拥有它的《天启》扩展。好了，作为我的第二选择，因为我不需要想太多（反正还能再选），我选择现代卡牌游戏的经典之作——《侦察兵》。

Shout out to all the expansions. Shout out to Rising Sun, which I have for the Apocalypse. Alright. With my second pick, because I don't have to think too hard because I can pick again, is a modern card game classic. That is Scout.

我在这里不可能不选择《Scout》。对于当前桌游爱好者来说，《Scout》就是典型的新式卡牌游戏。在这个游戏中，你需要从手牌出牌，但不能重新排列手牌，你需要不断尝试从中间出牌来组合成新的顺子等等。这是一款出色的游戏。Oink公司在这款优秀游戏基础上推出了更易上手的新版本。

There is just no way that I could not pick Scout here. Scout, for many board gamers in the current hobby, is the quintessential new card game. This is the game where you play cards from your hand, but you cannot rearrange your hand, and you're constantly trying to sort of play a card from the middle to combine cards into new runs and whatnot. It's an amazing game. Oink took a amazing game and then made a new version that just made it more accessible.

这款游戏在Target商店有售。我认为这是过去十年间最优秀的桌游/卡牌游戏之一。我很高兴能将其列入我的清单。这就是我的第二选择《Scout》。现在问题来了。

This is in Target. This is just one of the, I think, best board games slash card games has come out in the last ten years. I am very happy to have it on my list. That is Scout, my second pick. Now here is where the rub hits the road.

正如他们所说。对吧？

As they say. Right?

完美。是的。没错。经典。

Perfect. Yep. Yeah. Classic.

经典。因为他已经告诉我不能选《方舟动物园》，否则他们会跟我急。Neil说《历史巨轮》想都别想。如果有人试图选择《万智牌大厅》，我们就结束这个播客。再也不会有播客了。

Classic. Because he already told me I couldn't pick Ark Nova or they fight me. And Neil says, through the ages, not over my older body. And if someone tries to pick Hall of Magic the Gathering, we will end the podcast. There will be no more podcast.

有人尝试过。明白吗？我只是把话说出来。我只是在犹豫是否应该坚持己见。你懂我的意思吗？

Someone attempted. Okay? I'm just saying it out loud. I just can't decide if it's time to double down. Do you know what I mean?

我知道几种可能的发展方向。

I know a couple of ways that that could go.

是的。关于这个我有几点想法。

Yeah. I have a couple thoughts on that.

好的。我要加倍下注。我要弥补我的弱点。我要从卡牌游戏设计大师那里再选一款游戏。这就是常年绝版的《荣耀归于罗马》。

Alright. I am going to double down. I'm gonna shore up my weakness. I'm going to select another game from the master of card game design. This is the perennially out of print Glory to Rome.

嗯。一个极佳的桌游体验，完全由卡牌构成。典型...哎呀，全是卡牌。嗯。

Mhmm. A fantastic board game experience that is all cards. Typified. Oops, all cards. Mhmm.

这是一个真正的桌游。它被重制成了一个劣质版本。如果你认为《Mottainai》更好，我很抱歉。如果你们俩混蛋之后选了《Mottainai》，我也很抱歉。你们不过是在《荣耀归于罗马》的余晖中进行轮抽。

It is a real board game. It has been remade in a inferior version. I'm sorry if you believe that Matai and I is better. I'm sorry if one of you two yuck fucks drafts Matai and I later. You are drafting in the wake of what is glory to Rome.

不必道歉。你该为无法拥有它而遗憾，因为它已经绝版很久了。这是一款出色的游戏，我至今仍在玩，对于许多老设计来说这并不常见。我热爱《荣耀归于罗马》，我认为只有我对混乱的偏爱才让我更爱《创新》。但这是一款结构坚实、最终会陷入混乱的游戏，这已经是我能给出的最高赞誉了。

Don't be sorry. Be sorry that you can't have it because it is very out of print. It is an excellent game and one that I still play to this day, which does not happen with that many older designs. I love Glory to Rome, and I think that only my penchant for chaos makes me love innovation more than Glory to Rome. But a game just full of a strong structure that like goes into chaos, which is about as much love as I can give.

我想我可能会，你知道，我谈论经典卡尔可能会失去一些听众，但我也认为我在巩固优势。我在双重下注，这样你们两人就无法提供类似的选择。如果你想尝尝，就投票给Callan。

And I think I may, you know, I may lose some people for over going on classic Carl, but I also think I'm shoring up. I'm double dipping so that one of the two of you cannot have a similar offering. If you wanna taste, vote Callan.

直到我们其中一人选了《Mottainai》。

Until one of us takes Matainai.

是的。我说你可以做到。如果你想成为那种人，你可以在尾流中草拟。如果你想成为Mataanai那种人，Discord里总有一个Mataanai式的人。不知道他在说什么，但总有一个Mataanai式的人。

Yeah. I say you could do it. You could draft in the wake if you wanna be that guy. If you wanna be the Mataanai guy, there's always a Mataanai guy in the Discord. Doesn't know what he's talking about, but there's a Mataanai guy.

我不会选Mataanai。我觉得这很有趣。我不知道我是否错了，但我会选The Crew。为了选The Crew系列，我会选The Crew Mission Deep Sea，这是更新的版本，我相信普遍认为它比原版更优秀。The Crew很有趣。

I am not gonna pick Mataanai. I am gonna it's interesting. I don't know if I'm wrong about this, but I am gonna pick The Crew. And I guess in the interest of picking a The Crew, I will pick The Crew Mission Deep Sea, which is the the more recent one that is, I believe, generally considered to be superior to the original. The crew is it's funny.

就像，这不仅仅是我为了说而说，但当Mark提到Hanabi是最佳合作卡牌游戏时，我确实得反省一下，因为我觉得我个人可能更喜欢The Crew。而且我感觉它更受喜爱，但这显然有很多新近效应的因素，肯定是的。但，是的，我会选The Crew Mission Deepsea。

Like, this is not even just me saying it for the sake of saying it, but when Mark mentioned Hanabi as the best cooperative card game, I did have to check myself because I think I might prefer the crew personally even. And I get a sense that it is more beloved, but that is obviously there's a lot of recency in that, for for sure. But, yeah, I'm gonna go with The Crew, Mission Deepsea.

是的。显然，这是另一个争夺最佳合作卡牌游戏的有力竞争者。但我确实认为Hanabi是更好的游戏。所以我这轮选择的第一个很容易，我会选Arboretum，我最喜欢的游戏之一。我认为就超级紧张刺激的趣味游戏而言，我说过无数次了，但Arboretum很难被超越。

Yeah. Obviously, this is the other big contender for best cooperative card game. But I I do think Harabi is is the better game. So my first pick for this turn of picks is easy as I'm gonna go Arboretum, one of my favorite games. And I just think in terms of, like, super stressful fun games, I've said this a million times, but Arboretum is hard to beat.

同样，我说过无数次的另一点是，Arboretum对我来说是那种在你的回合时，你总是希望可以跳过的游戏。这以一种奇怪的方式对我来说是高度赞扬。对于我的第四个选择，这有点困难。我想我会选一个两人游戏。因为卡牌游戏的一个优点，我认为卡牌游戏闪耀的一个地方是，你又在牌桌旁，你和对手面对面，只是手里拿着牌，这是一种你可以一边玩一边聊天的游戏。

Again, another thing I've said a million times is that Arboretum is the game for me that on your turn, you always wish you could pass. And that is, in a weird way, high praise to me. For my fourth pick, this is a little more difficult. I think what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go two player here. Because one thing that you like to have with card games, one place where card games I think shine is that again, you're you're at a card table, you and the person you're playing against across from you just just have a hand of cards and it's a it's a game you can sort of play and and chat while you're playing.

所以我会选一个两人游戏，我选Kinesia。我选Lost Cities。

So I'm going two player here and I'm going Kinesia. I'm going Lost Cities.

嗯。老游戏了。老但经典。

Mhmm. Oldie. Oldie but a goodie.

是的。我认为这是我最喜欢的双人游戏之一，当然是我最喜欢的双人卡牌游戏之一，而且它教学简单，玩起来很快，但包含许多有趣的决策。玩的时候你不需要太过紧张。所以，没错，就是《失落的城市》。

Yeah. I think this is one of my favorite two player, certainly one of my favorite two player card games and one that is again simple to teach, plays really quickly but has a bunch of interesting decisions. But you don't have to be too too stressed out while you play it. So, yeah, Lost Cities.

我很想选一个...是的。我也很想在这里选另一个老游戏。我有点担心，但我还是要选它。这是乌维·罗森博格的经典之作——《丰收时节》。

I am tempted to go with a yeah. I'm tempted to go with another oldie as well here. I'm scared about it, but I'm gonna do it anyway. This is a Uwe Rosenberg classic. Bonanza.

出乎意料。这很意外，但很有趣。

Unexpected. This is unexpected, but fun.

是的。我我喜欢它。我喜欢它。

Yeah. I I like it. I like it.

我我觉得这很有趣，因为我不确定它是否吸引了很多新玩家。但不管怎样，这是一款我在过去几年里看到越来越复苏的游戏——我感觉在过去两三年里听到人们谈论《丰收时节》的次数比之前十年还要多。我不知道这是怎么回事。但《丰收时节》是乌维·罗森博格设计的一款出色的经典交易游戏。

I I think it's it's it's interesting because I I I don't know I don't know that it has a lot of the newer crowd on board. But I it is for whatever it's worth, it is a game that I've seen resurging more and more in the last few years where I feel like I've heard more people talking about Bonanza in the last, like, two or three years than I had in the previous ten. So I don't know what that's all about. But Bonanza is a is an excellent classic game of trading by Uwe Rosenberg.

是的。这非常有趣。好了。我还有两个选择，然后就结束了。嗯。

Yeah. This is very interesting. Alright. So I have two more picks, and I'm done here. Mhmm.

没错。然后你们每人还有一个选择。好的。所以在这个列表中，你们两个都没选《教教你》，这简直就像是在蔑视卡牌游戏这个概念。谁在力挺卡牌游戏？是我，红坦克！《教教你》虽然是个老游戏，但仍然是梯子爬升类与吃墩类对抗设计中一座巨大的巅峰。

Yep. And then you guys each get one more. Okay. So to do this list and for both of these two to not pick teach you is sort of like spitting on card games as a as a thing. Who champions card games but the red tank, me, teach you is an oldie but still a huge pinnacle of design in terms of ladder climbing versus trick taking.

没有什么比选择《teach you》作为搭档更有趣的了。尼兰是最差的搭档，这就是为什么他没有被选为《teach you》。但我真的不知道，如果不选《teach you》，你该怎么摆脱这个局面。

You cannot have more fun than teach you as a partner. Nilan is the worst partner, which is why he has not chosen teach you. But I I just I don't know how you get out of this without selecting teach you.

我觉得

I think

我认为我们的一部分观众会仅仅因为这个选择就投票给你。

I think there's a a portion of our loosenership that are gonna vote for you just based on that pick.

这太棒了，真的太棒了。我确实认为，说真的，卡牌游戏比棋盘游戏更好。我看着这个列表，简直爱不释手。

It's so and and it's so good. It's so good. I yeah. I think that, like, genuinely, card games are better than board games. And I look at this list, and I'm in love.

再次强调，我不是在说投票之外的事，我只是说，就是这样。来吧。为了最后一局，我要背叛自己来获得胜利。我要选择一款非常受欢迎、类似聚会游戏的技巧类卡牌游戏，那就是《骷髅王》。我必须选它。

And and again, I'm not saying you know, outside of the votes, I'm just saying, this is it. Here we go. With the last one, I am going to betray myself to get the w, to get the win. I am going to select a very popular party ish trick taking game that is beloved, and that is Skull King. I just have to have it.

我觉得还有排名更高的游戏，你知道，如果我们只是按前100名排序，然后选一个卡牌游戏。是的，你可以选《地球》。你懂我的意思吧？嗯。

Like, I think there are higher ranked games, you know, if we just sort by the top a 100 and choose the one with the card game. Yeah. You could get your Earth. You know what I mean? Mhmm.

我会带着这五款游戏，然后说卡牌游戏比棋盘游戏更好。看看，我准备充分了。我在这里可是准备充分了，怎么了？

And I will sit with these five games, and I will say card games are better than board games. Look at look. I'm packing. I'm packing here, What?

我看到一个人穿着长袍、戴着尖顶帽、拿着法杖，他在哭泣，因为他看起来像是

I see a person wearing a robe and a pointy hat and holding a staff, and they're crying because he looks I like the

总是穿上我的长袍和巫师帽。好吧。随时都可以。这就是我想要的。是的。

always put on my robe and wizard hat. Okay. At any time. That's what I wanna Yeah.

你不能选择你的巫师。

You don't select your wizard.

我听着呢。我穿上了我的长袍和巫师帽。

I listen. I put on my robe and wizard hat.

为了肖恩。

For Shane.

所以这是我的第五个选择——骷髅王，一款绝对精彩的派对式技巧取胜游戏，风格类似巫师，但由贝克爷爷本人推广流行。这将圆满结束我的前五名。

So that is my fifth pick, Skull King, an absolute fantastic party ish trick taking game in the vein of wizard, but made popular by mister grandpa Beck himself. And that will round out my top five.

所以我有一个可能有点争议的选择，我想我会直接问问《秘术纪元》。我觉得这个可以。

So one of my ones which is probably contentious, I guess I'll just ask about is Res Arcana. I think that works.

我觉得那样对我可行。我没问题。是的。就像，就像，就像璀璨宝石，你知道，就像，那就是，就像

I think that that works for me. I'm fine with that. Yeah. It's like like like a splendor, know, like, that's the, like

是的。那就是问题所在，是的。那很有趣。璀璨宝石可能我不太喜欢，说来好笑，尽管它实际上就是卡牌游戏，但又不完全是。不过，就像，是的。

Yeah. That's where it gets yeah. That's interesting. Splendor is probably I not like Splendor funnily enough just because it's I mean, because even though it is practically cards, it's not. But, like, yeah.

如果有人选璀璨宝石我也没问题，但这只是我个人看法。我理解为什么其他人可能会选。

I would be fine with someone picking Splendor or but it this is just me. I I understand why other people might.

是的。是的。是的。我要快速浏览一下我的列表，确保没有比下一个选择更紧迫但我可能忘记的游戏。这里有几个选项我在考虑，但我想我会选《秘境魔法》，这是Thomas Lehman设计的一款引擎构筑游戏。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna do a quick skim down my list just to make sure that there's nothing else more pressing than this next pick that I've potentially forgotten. There's a couple of options here I'm considering, but I think I'm gonna go with Res Arcana, a engine building game by Thomas Lehman.

很棒的游戏。

Great game.

双Lehman。你做了一个Lehman三明治。

Double Lehman. You made a Lehman sandwich.

确实。是的。没错。

I did. Yeah. That's true.

他蘸了两次。他蘸了两次。是的。两个都蘸了两次。

He double dipped. He double Yeah. Both doubled dipped.

我们都蘸。是的。没错。现在就看明天的了。

We all dip. Yeah. Exactly. Now it's up tomorrow.

你要去吗？

Are you gonna?

是的。我得选

Yeah. I gotta go with

花火。你必须选另一个库巴游戏。库巴游戏？

the Hanabi. You must pick another Bowser game. Bowser game?

我不会的。

I shan't.

不过那里有一张排名很高的卡牌游戏。它就摆在那里。

There is a very high ranking card game, though. It's sitting there.

哦，是吗？我不知道那是什么，我也不打算去弄清楚。所以我正在考虑几个选项。好吧，我觉得说出来也没什么坏处。

Oh, is there? I don't know what that is and I'm not gonna suss it out. So I've got a couple that I am considering. Alright. I guess there's no harm in talking it out.

显然，如果我不打算在那里做销售类的桌游，你知道，做一个不那么主流的桌游，这感觉挺有意思但我不确定。我可以不做巴尔萨三明治，而是做一个运动艺术三明治，走现代艺术路线，不过这不是我正在考虑的。我还在考虑吸引年轻人。我应该...是的，吸引年轻人。我想我就要这么做了。

So there's obviously if I'm not gonna do biblios for sales there as a bit, you know, a lesser biblios, that feels interesting but I don't know. I could do a instead of a Balsa sandwich, I could do a kinesia sandwich and go modern art, that's not what I'm considering. And then I'm also considering appealing to the youth. Should I be Yeah. Appealing to the think that's what I'm gonna do.

我觉得我要展望未来，我要关注孩子们，我要选择一款当下更热门的游戏。我要选派对游戏，因为我喜欢派对。我决定选《那不是帽子》。

I think I'm gonna look to the future, I'm gonna look to the kids, I'm gonna go with one of the hotter games out there. I'm gonna go party because I like to party. And I'm gonna go with That's Not a Hat.

哦，我以为你会选那个呢。我为你感到骄傲，马克。我以为你会选《指环王》

Oh, I thought you're okay. I'm very proud of you, Mark. I thought you were gonna go Lord of the Rings

我成长了。

I've grown.

那个吃墩游戏，我当时...不。我吗？

The trick taking game, and I was No. Me?

你真以为我会选那个？我会留给我孩子们玩的。

You honestly thought I was gonna do that? I will use it for my children.

用在顶部。不行。

Use it at the top. No.

不。不。我绝不会那样做。我绝不会做。满血会是粉丝吗。

No. No. I would never do that. I would never do Never. Would full health be fan.

是的。哦，天哪。不行。

Yeah. Oh my god. No.

谢天谢地。

Thank god.

绝对不行。那个库巴三明治游戏是什么？

Absolutely not. What was the Bowser sandwich game?

七大奇迹：对决？哦，是的。

Seven Wonders Duel? Oh, yeah.

哦，不。绝对不行。

Oh, no. Hell no.

嗯，那款双人游戏非常受欢迎。是的。我的意思是，它感觉很像桌游。我不知道。就像，还行吧。

Well, that's like very popular two player. Yeah. I I mean, it it feels very board gamey. I don't know. It's like, alright.

你做得不错。你做得不错。总之

You did good. You did good. Anyway

那么我们来回顾一下我们的清单。Kellen。

So let's go over our list. Kellen.

我选了《Innovation》、《Scout》、《Glory to Rome》、《Teach You》和《Skull King》。

I drafted Innovation, Scout, Glory to Rome, Teach You, and Skull King.

我选了《Race for the Galaxy》、《Dominion》、《Crew》、《Mission Deep Sea》、《Bonanza》和《Rez Arcana》。

I picked Race for the Galaxy, Dominion, crew, mission deep sea, bonanza, and Rez Arcana.

而我选了《Halabi》、《Marvel Champions》卡牌游戏、《Arboretum》、《Lost Cities》和《That's Not a Hat》。所以请访问boardgamebarrage.com/draft，选择你最喜欢的一款，我们将抽选一位投票者赢得100美元礼品券，可在他们选择的游戏零售商使用。是的，这会很有趣。另外，你也可以访问boardgamebarrage.com/discord，聊聊你最喜欢的卡牌游戏。

And I went with Halabi, Marvel champions, card game, arboretum, lost cities, and that's not a hat. So go to boardgamebarrage.combackslashdraft. Pick the one that you like the most, and we will be selecting someone who votes to win a $100 gift certificate to the game retailer of their choice. And, yeah, that'll be fun. Otherwise, you can go to boardgamebarage.com/discord to talk about what your favorite card games are.

你可以在我们的播客频道讨论最新一期节目。如果想讨论其他内容，也可以在那里进行。你可以发送邮件至boardgamebarrage@gmail.com联系我们，或在各种社交媒体上与我们交流，这些都很容易搜索到。一如既往感谢Heart Society为我们提供的片头曲《What's On Your Mind, Kate》，下次再见。

You can do that on our podcast channel where we discuss the latest episode. And if you wanna discuss other things, you can do it there. You can email us at boardgamebarage@gmail.com. You can talk to us on different forms of social media that are easily searchable. Thank you as always to Heart Society for our intro to actual song, what's on your mind, Kate, and until next time.

再见。拜拜。去投票吧。年轻人。

Goodbye. Bye bye. Get out the vote. Youth.