裸盖菇素、LSD与大麻：延寿药物排行（下篇）

有一组蠕虫接受了LSD，另一组则没有。

So there was a group of worms who got LSD, a group of worms who did not.

他们发现，LSD在蠕虫身上模拟了热量限制的效果，这很有趣，可能与我们对小鼠裸盖菇素研究中推测的相同机制有关，即SIRT激活。

And basically, they found that the LSD kind of mimicked caloric restriction for the worms, which is interesting and may play similarly to the same mechanisms we're theorizing with the psilocybin in the mice, where this sort of SIRT activation.

这属于热量限制类别，本质上是细胞层面的自我修复。

So sort of the, which is falls in that, like, caloric restriction category of kind of cellular, cellular healing, basically.

蠕虫的寿命延长了百分之二十五。

So twenty five percent increase in life expectancy for worms.

同样，这很有趣，但也属于‘你不是蠕虫’的范畴，我们并不真正理解其作用机制和原因。

Again, interesting, but also falls in that category of you're not a worm, and we don't truly understand how or why this is working.

对我来说，这话题在派对上聊起来很有趣，但不足以让我为一个关注长寿的人设计方案或改变自己的行为。

So there's like, I think for me, this is interesting and, like, cool to talk about at a party, but not a reason for me to design a protocol for you or for to change my behavior as a longevity interested human.

你提到了好几次，那是什么？

What is the You mentioned that a couple times.

那个‘cert’是什么？

What is that cert?

这是你细胞中帮助修复DNA的一部分。

It's like it's a part of your cell that helps repair DNA.

它的功能是，虽然有多种不同的SIRT，但我们讨论的这种它的职责是修复DNA并确保DNA正确盘绕，然后它就在做所有它应该做的事情。

Like its job, there's lots of different certs, but the one we're talking about, its job is actually to repair DNA and make sure the DNA is coiled up appropriately, and then it's, like, doing everything that it's supposed to be doing.

它通常会被我们认为是延寿药物的许多药物激活，也会被热量限制以及我们认为具有延寿效果的许多活动激活，比如运动、热量限制、睡眠，所有这些我们觉得健康的行为。

And it is commonly activated by a lot of the medications we think of as longevity medications and also by caloric restriction and a lot of the activities that we think about as being longevity activities like exercise, caloric restriction, sleep, all those things that we think about as being healthy.

肯定有个梗是关于一群服用LSD的蠕虫。

There's gotta be a meme in here of some worms on LSD.

我们到时候会出一个。

We'll have one out

到那时

by the time

会很有趣。

going to be fun.

我能想到很多酷炫的事情。

I can think about a lot of cool things.

可以有一只戴着粉色太阳镜的蠕虫身上出现全息效果。

Can have some holographic thing going on on a worm wearing some pink sunglasses.

好吧，我同意这个说法。

Okay, I'll say yes to that.

意思是，这样看起来好吗？

Mean, okay, does that look good?

我不知道，作为一条蠕虫、一条鱼，或者像植物这样的生物，你的主观体验是什么样的？

I don't know, what is your, like, conscious experience like as a worm or a fish or, like, you know, a plant?

更不用说一只在 LSD 作用下的蠕虫了。

Let alone a worm on LSD.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

然后呢，你正在做自己的事，突然遇到了这种致幻剂，你根本无法预知它会突然发作。

And, like, you're doing your thing, and you stumble upon this psychedelic and you have no, you don't know how to anticipate that this is coming on.

它开始发生在你身上。

It starts happening to you.

你甚至不知道发生了什么。

You can't even, you don't even know what is going on.

完全混乱不堪。

Complete discombobulation.

你不太确定如何重现那种体验。

You're not quite sure how to replicate that experience.

你觉得蠕虫也会认为自己与宇宙合一吗？

Do you think a worm also thinks that they're one with the universe?

就像，这可能是吧。

Like, is that Probably.

这是它们的结论吗？

Is that their conclusion?

我想知道，在某个时间跨度内，我们是否能够探究意识并构建出它的体验模型。

I wonder in in some duration of time if we will be able to probe consciousness and create models of what it's like.

当我作为Kernel实验的一部分使用氯胺酮时，在那之前，如果有人问我，举几个例子说明你的意识能做什么。

When I did ketamine as part of the Kernel experiment, I before that, if somebody would have said to me, give me examples of what your conscious mind is capable of.

比如，告诉我它能去到哪里？

Like, tell me where can it go?

你能感受到什么？

What can you feel?

你能接纳哪些想法？

What thoughts can you embrace?

比如，作为一个有意识的存在，是一种怎样的感觉？

Like, what does it feel like to be a conscious being?

如果给我整整一周的思考时间，没有任何其他责任，我也无法想象到这一点，对吧？

If I would have been given an entire week of thought space with no other responsibilities, I would not have been able to imagine that, right?

这非常实际。

And just it's very practical.

你是否正撞上自己经验现实的局限，却很难轻易突破它？

Are you bump up against your own limitations of your experienced reality, and you can't punch through that very easily.

所以氯胺酮就像一下子打开了我的思维，原来我的意识竟能体验到如此新颖的东西。

And so ketamine just, like, blew it open of, like, my mind is really capable of this novel thing.

因此，当我列出我们当前面前最酷的事物时，我们对人工通用智能（ASI）有着极大的热情。

So I think the when you list out what are the coolest things that we have in front of us right now, we have a fever pitch interest in ASI.

我不太明白，为什么我们对意识体验可能是什么样子，却没有类似的雄心壮志呢？

I'm not quite sure why we equally don't have a similar ambition of like what could our conscious experience be like?

而致幻剂正是通往这一目标的最接近途径。

And psychedelics are the closest pathway for that.

人们说‘精神探险家’，你知道，这确实是个令人着迷的探索领域，但它并没有被当作一种明确的追求目标。

People saying psychonauts, you know, that is a cool thing to explore and but it's just not really framed as an ambition.

它更多地被看作一条另类路径，而不是从建设者的心态去看待。

It's it's kind of framed as this alt path, but not really viewed through a a builder, mindset.

太令人着迷了。

So fascinating.

迈克，你知道谁最不适合这种体验吗？

I do we know, Mike, who isn't the best fit for this kind of experience?

因为，你知道，从轶事角度来看，我们经常听说有人经历坏旅程，甚至出现精神病性发作。

Because, you know, obviously, anecdotally, we hear about bad trips and people having even psychotic breaks.

这可以量化吗？

Is it quantifiable?

我们能弄清楚这一点吗？

Can we figure that out?

这确实是一个挑战。

It is a challenge for sure.

所以，如果你问一位从业者哪些人不应该使用这些药物，他们会告诉你有精神病史的人。

So there are people who, you know, if you ask a practitioner who should not partake in medications or these drugs, They would tell you people with psychosis.

因此，我们通常认为双相情感障碍、精神分裂症，以及任何精神病性发作史都是禁忌。

So often, we think about bipolar disorder being a a contraindication, schizophrenia being a contraindication, any history of psychotic break being a contraindication.

这些人都应该避免使用，或者确保在了解其心理问题严重程度的从业者指导下进行。

So those are people that should avoid or make sure they are doing it with a practitioner who understands the extent of their their psychological issues.

除此之外，大约有百分之十的旅程被称为‘坏旅程’。

Beyond that, something around ten percent of trips are quote, unquote bad trips.

而且，确实很难准确定义什么是坏旅程，除了在旅程期间或刚结束后产生的负面主观体验。

And, yeah, it's hard to know what exactly a bad trip trip is other than just a negative subjective experience of the trip immediately during or immediately after the the trip.

有趣的是，几乎百分之百的人在经历一段时间后被问及时，都认为这些经历实际上是积极的。

The interesting thing is almost one hundred percent of those, when asked sometime after the experience, almost 100% of those of those experiences are actually thought to be positive.

哦，天哪。

So Oh, wow.

人们改变了想法。

People change their mind.

所以在经历过程中，他们感受到了负面的体验。

So during the experience, they have this negative experience.

对吧？

Right?

比如，可能看到了恶魔、黑影之类的，我不知道。

Like, it's maybe there's demons or black shadows or I I don't know.

我现在简直是在瞎编了。

I'm, like, making stuff up now.

比如，可能是黑象。

Like, maybe it's black elephants.

但你知道，不管是什么，都会有一些黑暗的意象或某种负面体验，最初让人焦虑或难以承受。

But, like, you know, whatever it is, there's some some dark imagery or some some negative experience that they that they have that is initially anxiety provoking or challenging.

但后来，他们逐渐转变了看法，明白了为什么会发生这种情况。

And then later on, they sort of flip it and they realize why that happened.

为什么会是负面的呢？

Why was it negative?

他们试图克服的是什么？

What what were they trying to overcome?

那次经历更深层的意义是什么？

What was the the deeper meaning to that experience?

然后他们反过来认为，那其实是一件积极的事情。

And actually flip it and believe that it was actually a positive thing.

所以，当你谈论所谓的坏旅程或负面体验时，很难确定它们是否真的不好。

So it's when you even talk about bad trips or negative experiences, it's hard to know, like, are they truly bad?

在精神探索者圈子里有一句说法：根本不存在坏的旅程。

And there's a saying, like, in the in the psychonaut world, like, no such thing as bad trips.

这句话的意思是，即使是所谓的坏旅程，也在教你一些东西。

And the the point there being that, like, even the bad trips are teaching you something.

关键在于理解其中想要传达的信息，而不是仅仅追求一次美好、愉快的体验。

And it's just a matter of understanding what's trying to be told as opposed to going in and having a beautiful, wonderful experience.

但一旦你超越了那些正面的感受，你就要问自己：我来这里只是为了感受正面情绪，还是为了成长？

But once you get past the what what are the what's the positive feelings, like, am I just here for positive feelings or am I here to grow?

这就是人们必须跨越的障碍。

Like, that's the that's the speed bump people have to get over.

还有酒精滥用的问题。

And also, alcohol misuse.

是这样吗，迈克？

Is that right, Mike?

比如那些酒精依赖的人？

Like, that are alcohol dependent?

是的。

Yeah.

一个有趣的故事是，戒酒互助会的创始人据说曾服用过LSD，这在他后来参与创建戒酒互助会的过程中起到了重要作用。

An interesting story is that the the guy who started Alcoholics Anonymous supposedly did LSD, and, that was a that played a big part in his role in developing AA later on.

但关于LSD的研究表明，仅用一次LSD剂量，就能使酒精的负面使用率降低约50%。

But the the studies on LSD have shown that there's about a I think it's a 50% reduction or clearance of negative use of alcohol just with a single dose of LSD.

DMT似乎也有类似的效果，如果我没记错的话。

Similar with DMT as well, if I believe, if I remember correctly.

布莱恩，也许你的想法也在这里，我们上一期讨论过使用致幻剂来改变阻碍你健康的那些行为。

Brian, maybe your brain went here too, but we were talking about in the last episode using psychedelics to change behavioral things that get in the way of you being healthy, for example.

你也可以想象，如今社会上的死亡回避行为，几乎就像一种‘死亡成瘾者匿名会’。

And you can also imagine that death cope is almost like a deathaholics anonymous for society right now where we

对，就是这样。

There we go.

这种行为与你的‘别死’峰会有关，人们一起使用致幻剂，但我们从事与死亡相关的行为，是因为我们在试图应对痛苦。

Engage and this goes back to your Don't Die summits and everyone doing psychedelics together, but that we engage in death related behaviors because we are trying to cope.

你找到了，凯特。

You found it, Kate.

这正是我想找的，你一下子就指出来了。

That's what I was trying to circle on and you just identified it.

我认为这个假设是：人们对死亡上瘾。

I think that is the hypothesis I would go with is that people are addicted to death.

他们滥用它。

They miss misuse it.

他们把它当作一种物质来滥用。

They misuse it as a as a substance.

没错，就是这样。

Yeah, it's exactly.

它是一种通过‘追求最佳生活’和‘享乐框架’来呈现的物质。

It's a substance for, through the the framing of living your best life, through, pleasure frameworks.

做出糟糕决定的借口。

Excuse to make bad decisions.

是的。

Yes.

对，没错。

Bad yeah, exactly.

这种对死亡的成瘾和扭曲非常严重，我的意思是，如果你把对死亡的成瘾与对酒精、食物、色情或任何其他物质的成瘾相比较，它在心理上的强大程度可能不亚于甚至超过其他成瘾，因为它根深蒂固，你甚至都察觉不到。

That it is, as robust, of an addiction and a distortion that I mean, if you basically size up death addiction to alcohol or any other form of addiction, food, porn, substance, that it's probably just as formidable psychologically, if not more so than the others because it's embedded so deeply, you can't even see it.

人生苦短。

YOLO.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，这是一种文化现象。

I mean, it's cultural.

人只活一次。

You only live once.

这简直就是为做出糟糕决定找借口。

It's, like, excuses to, make bad decisions.

它们本质上是关于死亡的。

They are inherently regarding death.

是的。

Yeah.

我来这里是为了享受美好时光，而不是为了长久活着。

I'm I'm here for a good time, not a long time.

所有这些

All these

而且你睡得像死人一样。

And you sleep from dead.

没错。

That's right.

所有这些简单的说法，都试图用一些随口的评论来解释复杂的现实。

All these simplistic statements that try to make sense of a complicated reality with some throwaway comment.

我喜欢你们这些人。

I like these you guys.

我觉得我们在这种头脑风暴中取得了不错的进展，我们还没有从成瘾康复的角度来定义‘别死’，但这是很有力量的。

I think we're making good progress on this brainstorming that this is we haven't framed Don't Die, you know, through through the lens of addiction recovery, but it's powerful.

嗯。

Mhmm.

DMT。

DMT.

等等。

Wait.

布莱恩，你的纹身就是这个吗？

Brian, is that what your tattoo is?

五甲氧基DMT。

Five MEO DMT.

有什么区别？

What's the difference?

这是一种不同的分子。

It's a different molecule.

有没有什么数据能证明DMT是否能延长寿命或改善健康？

Is there any like, Mike, is there any data to back up whether or not DMT can extend life or improve health?

它会不会起反作用？

Does it do the opposite?

没有。

No.

到目前为止，还没有关于DMT与长寿相关的数据。

There's no there's no data so far regarding longevity specifically with DMT.

有一些研究表明，它能像其他致幻剂一样产生类似效果，比如改善认知或神经可塑性，帮助缓解抑郁和焦虑等。

There is some is some data suggesting that it can do the similar things that the other psychedelics can do, like improve cognition or plasticity, help with depression, anxiety, things like that.

但还没有关于表观遗传数据，或者像LSD或裸盖菇素在小鼠身上观察到的那种结果。

But nothing around like epigenetic data or anything we've seen with mice in LSD or psilocybin.

听起来裸盖菇素很有前景，而关于LSD和DMT与健康及长寿相关的数据，我们还在等待从实证角度的反馈？

Sounds like shrooms is really promising, and then we're still waiting for data to come back on LSD and DMT as it relates to health and longevity from a data driven standpoint?

我猜测，如果这些传统致幻剂真的有延长寿命的好处，那很可能它们都有，因为它们的作用机制相似，都是作用于相同的受体。

My guess is that it's likely that all of, if there is a longevity benefit from these traditional psychedelics, it's likely all of them because they all act kind of in the same way in the sense that they're hitting the same receptor.

如果它们作用于相同的受体，那么它们在延长寿命方面的影响很可能也非常相似。

It would only make sense that they're if they're hitting that same receptor, they're gonna have very similar outcomes on longevity.

所以我认为，如果我们证明其中一种物质具有显著的延寿益处，那么蘑菇、LSD、DMT、5-MeO-DMT等所有传统致幻剂的效果很可能是一致的。

So I think if we prove that, like, one of these has has a significant longevity benefit, it's likely that it's consistent between shrooms, between LSD, between DMT, five ms eo DMT, I began all traditional psychedelics.

有没有证据表明，由于蘑菇是天然化合物而LSD是合成的，因此蘑菇具有某种额外益处？还是这只是社会上的一个迷思？

Is there anything to support that shrooms has some sort of added benefit because it's a natural compound versus LSD that's synthetic, or is that a myth within society?

目前还没有强有力的头对头双盲对照试验来支持这一点。

There hasn't been really a strong head to head blind control trial here.

从分子结构、作用方式和作用机制来看，它们在理论上极其相似。

Theoretically, they're they're extremely similar in terms of their molecule shape, the way they work, the, mechanism of action.

真正的差异主要在于作用持续时间。

The differences really are just like duration of action.

你会注意到，它们在实际效果上存在一些细微差别。

You will note that, like, there's slight differences in the actual effect.

比如，LSD通常更具视觉效果，更多地作用于视觉皮层，而蘑菇则更偏向于自然类型的图像，以及与大自然连接的那种感觉。

Like LSD is what much typically much more visual, hits the visual cortex a lot more, whereas, shrooms are a little bit more, like, nature type imagery and connecting with mother nature kind of kind of situation.

所以，主观上确实存在一些差异，但在神经化学层面，它们极其相似。

So there is, like, some subjective differences, but, like, neurochemically, extremely similar.

我犹豫是否要说其中一种在任何方面都更安全或更好。

I hesitate to say that, like, one is safer than the other or better than the other in any way.

关于两者，都有研究证明它们在治疗抑郁、焦虑和创伤后应激障碍方面取得了显著更好的效果。

Like, there there's studies on both that have, proven, you know, significantly better outcomes when it comes to depression, anxiety, and PTSD.

而LSD在成瘾康复方面有相关研究，但裸盖菇素也被用于成瘾康复。

And then LSD has those studies on on addiction recovery, but psilocybin is also used in addiction recovery as well.

所以在我的看法中，它们非常相似。

So very similar in my mind.

因此，我的总结是，迈克，我们确实想开展一个氯胺酮方案，以评估其抗衰老效果、治疗窗口和延长作用。

So my summary on this is, Mike, we do want to do a ketamine protocol to evaluate its antiaging effects and the therapeutic window and the elongation.

我们还想开展一个裸盖菇素方案，并评估它是否能延长我的端粒，而我的端粒目前状态已经不错。

We also want to do a psilocybin protocol, and we want to assess whether it can elongate my telomeres, which are already in a good spot.

我们需要确定给药方案，然后决定在科罗拉多州还是俄勒冈州进行，以及给药频率。

We need to figure out the dosing protocol, and then we need to figure out where to do it either in Colorado or Oregon and, frequency dose.

然后我们可以观察端粒和大脑。

And then we can do brain we can look at telomeres and brain.

在裸盖菇素方案中，我们还应该测量哪些终点指标？

What else would we measure on the psilocybin protocol as, endpoints?

嗯，我们之前讨论过使用核(kernel)。

Well, we talked about using the kernel.

我认为这对氯胺酮和裸盖菇素都特别有意思。

I think that's really interesting for both ketamine and for for psilocybin.

我们讨论过测量端粒长度、表观遗传年龄，根据我们看过的那项小鼠研究，细胞内NAD也可能很有意思。

We talked about measuring the telomere length, epigenetic age, and it sounds like intercellular NAD could be interesting as well based on that that one mouse study that we saw.

所以我觉得这会很有趣。

So I think that would be interesting.

然后我认为我们可以测量一些基础指标，比如炎症标志物和基本的血液水平之类的。

And then I think we can measure the basic stuff like inflammatory markers and, you know, basic blood blood levels, things like that.

然后我们说，由于目前关于LSD的证据非常有限，而且我们只有那项关于蠕虫的研究，所以它还不适合开展一项方案。

And then we're saying that LSD, because the evidence is pretty limited in LSD right now and the we had the one study with, worms, that it's not ready for a a protocol yet.

我认为，如果那里有信号的话，我们会在裸盖菇素中看到它，并且会看到与LSD相似的信号。

I think I would suspect that if there is a signal there, we'll see it with psilocybin, and it would be a similar signal that we would see with LSD.

所以我认为没必要同时做两者。

So I don't think there's much point in doing both.

是因为LSD不是来自植物吗？

Because LSD is not from a plant?

说实话，我觉得这并不太重要。

I don't think that matters too much, to be honest.

我的意思是，LSD对你来说会更难做，因为我认为在俄勒冈州或科罗拉多州你无法合法地使用它。

I mean, like, LSD is, is gonna be harder for you to do because it's not I don't think you can do it medically in Oregon or Colorado.

是的。

Yeah.

对不起，我说错了。

That's what I I'm sorry.

我的意思是，这是因为LSD不是植物来源，而且在科罗拉多州不合法。

That's what I meant to say is be so it's it's because it's not a plant, it's not legal in Colorado.

因此，我们需要在墨西哥或

Therefore, we would need to do it in Mexico or

直接出国。

Just go out of country.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

出国。

Out of country.

但你觉得这相对于采用裸盖菇素作为方案来说，其实是次要的。

But you think it's it's really secondary to doing psilocybin as a protocol.

就持久性而言，我认为如果存在某种机制，这两种药物的机制很可能非常相似。

In terms of longevity, I mean, I would suspect that the the if there is a mechanism there, it's likely very similar between the two drugs.

但这目前完全是推测。

But it's I mean, that's total conjecture at this point.

因为根本就没有研究能证明这一点。

Like, there's just not studies to suggest it.

当然，正如我们之前提到的，约翰·霍普金斯大学的证据——迈克也提到了——显示了抑郁症或焦虑症缓解的数据。

And then, of course, this goes without saying repeating what we had we said before that there's there's good evidence from John Hopkins that Mike mentioned showing depression or anxiety reduction where there's data.

所以，对于那些不从长寿角度、而只是想改善情绪的人来说，证据是非常充分的。

So for those of you not looking at it from a longevity perspective, but from just, you know, improving mood, then the evidence is pretty robust there.

但今天我们主要关注的是这些药物在延长寿命方面的潜力。

But our our primary focus today is is on the longevity potential of these drugs.

是的。

Yeah.

接下来，我真的很想谈谈大麻。

Next, I'd really like to talk about about marijuana.

我们都谈到了自己初次接触大麻的经历。

We all talked about our first experiences and being exposed to this.

这也是很多人在使用的东西。

This is also something that a lot of people use.

它在美国的可获得性远高于我们之前讨论的其他药物。

It's much more freely available across The US than in any of the other drugs we covered.

比如，很多人用它来助眠。

And a lot of people use it for sleep, for example.

所以我们经常被问到这个问题。

So we get this question a lot.

那么，迈克，我们对大麻的好处了解多少？

So, Mike, what do we know about the upsides to marijuana?

然后我们会讨论它的负面影响。

And then we'll cover the downsides.

是的，这个问题有点复杂。

Yeah, so this one gets a little nuanced.

有一些研究表明，大麻在缓解焦虑和创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）症状方面有一定益处，能减轻焦虑和PTSD症状。

There are some studies suggesting benefits of, of marijuana, specifically around like anxiety and PTSD symptoms, some reduction of of anxiety symptoms and PTSD symptoms.

它还能减少炎症，具有一定的抗炎作用。

There's some reduction inflammation, so some anti inflammatory effects.

还有一些研究表明大麻有助于缓解慢性疼痛。

And there's also some studies suggesting chronic pain relief.

我相信大多数人可能都听说过大麻的止吐作用，也就是它常用于癌症患者以减轻恶心和呕吐。

And then I'm sure most people have probably heard about, like, the antiemetic effects, meaning like the anti nausea or anti vomiting effects of marijuana that's often used in cancer patients.

这些是大麻潜在的益处。

There are these potential benefits.

但有趣的是，如果你深入研究相关文献，大多数研究都表明，我们刚才提到的这些益处主要来自CBD，而不是THC。

What's interesting though is if you actually dive into the research, most of the research has suggested that the benefits that we that we just described are all from CBD rather than THC.

CBD是大麻中与THC并存的一种化学物质。

So CBD is a chemical found in marijuana along with THC.

THC是大麻中另一种化学物质。

THC is another chemical found in marijuana.

THC会导致致幻效果。

The THC causes the hallucinogenic effects.

所以，那种‘我嗨了’的感觉，全部都是THC造成的。

So the, like, man, I'm high effects, that's all THC.

CBD实际上不会引起幻觉，但它是一种存在于大麻中的化合物，似乎对缓解焦虑、创伤后应激障碍症状、抗炎等效果有诸多益处。

CBD is actually not hallucinogenic, but it is a compound found in marijuana that appears to convey a lot of the benefits around the anxiety, PTSD symptoms, the anti inflammatory effects, all of those things.

如今，当你去大麻商店时，实际上可以选择想要的THC含量和CBD含量，可以自行决定每种成分的百分比。

And when you go to a cannabis store these days, you can actually like decide how much THC you want, how much CBD you want, Like, you can determine what percentile of each one of these things you choose.

因此，消费者能够根据自己的需求来调节剂量。

So you the the consumer has the ability to sort of titrate the their dose based on what they're going for.

我只是觉得有意思，人们总说THC或大麻有这么多好处，但据我们所知，大部分这些益处其实主要来自CBD。

I just think it's interesting people talk about THC having all these benefits or marijuana having all these benefits, but it seems like it's mostly the CBD that has the majority of these benefits from what we can tell.

有些人特别容易对大麻产生强烈的负面体验。

Some people are particularly prone to having a really intense negative experience with cannabis.

我记得好像有人在吸食大麻后需要运动、洗个热水澡之类的。

I remember something about needing to exercise or have a hot shower or something like that while being high.

你知道我说的是什么吗，迈克？

Do you know what I'm talking about, Mike?

这里有几个不同的情况。

There's a few different things here.

有一部分人对THC会产生矛盾反应，也就是说，他们不会感到放松和飘飘然，反而会变得极度焦虑、多疑，并且过度关注自我身份。

You there are a subset of people who have a paradoxical reaction from THC where, like, meaning, instead of feeling chill and high, they feel super, like, anxious, paranoid, and self identity focused.

我们还不完全清楚为什么不同人会有这两种不同的反应，但确实有些人对THC的这种效应更为敏感。

And we don't truly understand why there's these two different reactions between people, but there are people who appear to be more sensitive to THC for that reason.

而且这种情况在过去十五年里，随着THC合法化后，人们致力于制造出效力极强的毒品，情况变得更糟了。

And then there's this, like this is and this has really gotten worse in the last fifteen years since THC has become legal, and they've spent all this work to make, these drugs super strong.

但有一种叫做大麻素高呕吐综合征的状况，我在急诊室见过很多，其机制是，长期使用大麻会改变大脑中控制恶心的受体功能。

But this thing called cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome that I saw a lot of in the emergency department, where people have, basically what happens is the receptors in the part of their brain that control nausea get flipped by the chronic use of, of marijuana.

突然之间，大麻原本具有的止吐作用，反而变成了强烈的致吐作用。

And all of a sudden, instead of marijuana having this anti nausea effect, it starts having this extremely pro nausea effect.

这些患者会出现持续数天甚至一周的严重呕吐发作。

And these people get these, like, episodes of, like like, terrible vomiting that lasts, like, a few days, a week.

而他们唯一能感觉好转的方法，就是洗热水澡。

And the only way they can feel better is if they take a hot shower.

所以你会看到这些人说：‘我一直在恶心得要命。’

So you'd see these people and they'd be like, I've just been so nauseous.

我一直在呕吐。

I'm puking all the time.

而且，唯一有效的方法就是洗热水澡，你跟他们的家人聊聊，发现他们每天要洗二十次澡。

And, like, only thing that works is I take a hot shower and you talk to their loved ones and, like, they've been taking, like, 20 showers a day.

我就问：你们每天抽多少大麻？

And I'm like, oh, how much how much pot do you smoke?

然后你发现，他们确实是经常使用THC的人。

And then you find out, like, that they're a regular THC user.

所以，这只是THC另一个有趣的方面。

So that's, I don't know, just another interesting aspect of of THC.

只要你长期服用任何药物，都会改变你体内相应受体对这种药物的反应方式。

The Whenever you take any medication on a regular basis, it changes the way the receptors in your body work for that medication.

对于THC而言，你会根据长期使用THC的情况，上调或下调大脑中的受体。

And with THC, you upregulate and downregulate receptors in your brain based on regular use of THC.

我认为，长期使用THC确实可能加剧焦虑和抑郁症状，并让你形成依赖，以至于必须定期使用才能缓解这种持续的焦虑。

I do think there is something to be said for regular use of THC and how that could potentially, even increase anxiety and depressive symptoms, and sort of habituate you to regular use so that you need to use it regularly in order to prevent that regular anxiety.

就像吸香烟一样，当你摄入尼古丁时，会释放出一种焦虑缓解的感觉。

Just like smoking a cigarette causes, you know, this release of anxiety once you get that nicotine.

这在身体发生的变化上，原理是相似的。

It's the same same general principle in terms of what's happening in the body.

所以我们已经谈到了大麻的一些好处和坏处，但在使用大麻时还有一些其他事情你需要了解。

So we covered some of the upsides and some of the downsides, but there are some other things you should know when consuming marijuana.

例如，肺癌的风险会显著增加。

For example, lung cancer, that's pretty significantly increased.

这适用于那些吸烟或食用大麻的人。

And this is for folks that are smoking weed or just eating it.

迈克，这里的统计数据是多少？

What's the stats here, Mike?

是的。

Yeah.

经常吸烟的人会将化学物质和烟雾吸入肺部，而我们知道，这出于多种原因对健康有害。

So people who are smoking on a regular basis are exposing themselves to chemicals and to smoke in your lungs, which we know for multiple reasons is bad for you.

我们已经有多年关于吸烟有害的历史。

And we've got years of history of smoking being bad.

因此，吸食大麻的实际吸入行为会使你患肺癌的风险增加约2.8倍。

So the actual inhalation of smoking marijuana can increase your risk of lung cancer by, like, two point eight times increased risk.

也就是说，患肺癌的风险增加了约280%，这可不是好事。

So about a two hundred and eighty percent risk of of lung cancer, which is not good.

因此，至少就吸烟大麻而言，这绝对是饮食方面的负面因素。

So that would definitely be a check-in the diet category for smoking marijuana at least.

当然，还有其他摄入方式。

There are other ways obviously to ingest it.

比如食用，如今这已成为一种常见方式，通过食用制品摄入。

You can eat it, for example, which is a common way these days using edibles.

此外，定期吸食大麻的人自杀风险几乎高出九倍。

And then also things like suicide risk being almost nine times higher with regular marijuana smokers.

这准确吗？

Is that accurate?

是的。

Yeah.

他们特指那些患有大麻使用障碍的人。

They're specifically talking about people who have cannabis use disorder.

在这一人群中，全因死亡风险增加了约180%。

And in that population, the all cause mortality risk has increased by about a hundred and eighty percent.

这不仅仅是像你说的‘我偶尔用大麻’那么简单。

And that's that's more than just, you know, I use marijuana.

这是一种医学状况，意味着某人实际上对大麻产生了依赖或成瘾，也就是说，他们必须定期使用大麻，否则就会出现负面症状。

That's a a medical condition where somebody's actually dependent or addicted to cannabis, meaning that they basically have to have it in order to prevent negative symptoms not having it on a regular basis.

所以，这不只是每天使用的人，而是每天多次使用，如果不摄入剂量就会出现负面副作用的人。

So this is someone who is not just a daily user, but multiple times a day and has negative side effects if they don't get the dose basically.

这是一种特定人群，但这类人的死亡风险确实显著增加。

So it's a specific person, but there is a significant increased risk of mortality for those people.

那么，大麻对表观遗传老化的一般影响呢？

And then how about the effect on epigenetics aging generally?

大麻是否具有任何正向或负向的相关性？

Does marijuana have any kind of correlation positively or negatively?

是的，有趣的是，有一项研究对此进行了探讨，他们调查了大约5000人，发现近期使用大麻与根据GrimAge表观遗传预测模型所测得的生物年龄增加有关。

Yeah, interestingly, so there was a study on this and they looked at like 5,000 people, I think, and they showed that just recent marijuana use was associated with an increase in biological age according to the grim age epigenetic predictor.

因此，每使用一天大麻，生物年龄就会增加一个月。

So each for every day of of recent use, there was a one month increase in biological age.

由此可见，仅凭大麻使用就似乎确实存在表观遗传年龄增加的信号。

So it does appear that there's a signal there for an increase in epigenetic age just with marijuana use.

目前尚不清楚这种影响是否仅与吸烟有关，还是也与食用大麻有关，但这一发现确实令人担忧，因为它可能将大麻归入饮食类因素。

Now unclear whether that is related to smoking only or if that could be also, associated with eating as well as smoking marijuana, but certainly a concerning finding that would put it more also in the diet category.

这太有趣了。

That's fascinating.

那么，听起来大麻不在潜在长寿方案的探索名单上，是这样吗？

Okay, so sounds like marijuana is not on the list for potential longevity protocol exploration, is that right?

是的，也许吧。

Yeah, maybe.

我的意思是，这里还有很多需要了解的地方。

I mean, I think there's still more to learn here.

就像我们开头提到的，大麻中的CBD至少有一些益处，比如抗炎和抗焦虑。

Like we mentioned at the beginning, there are benefits at least of CBD, anti inflammatory, anti anxiety.

我们之前提到的睡眠方面的益处也是如此。

There's the benefits of sleep that we mentioned.

因此，可能存在一些有益的方面。

So there there are potentially some areas that could be beneficial.

但我认为，就像任何事情一样，剂量决定毒性。

But I think, like, just with anything, like, the dose makes the poison.

所以这绝对是这样一种情况：如果你经常使用大麻，尤其是吸烟的方式，它可能更倾向于损害健康而非促进长寿。

So this is definitely one of the situations where if you are using marijuana on a regular basis, especially if you're smoking it, it may be leaning more towards dye rather than longevity.

嘿，迈克。

Hey, Mike.

你想看看阿里和劳伦发布的关于睡眠的研究吗？

Do you wanna check out the studies that Ali and Lauren posted on sleep?

是的。

Yeah.

所以让我们看看他们在这里发布的某些研究。

So just looking at some of the some of the studies that they posted over here.

为期两周的平衡型THC和CBD油，帮助60%的失眠患者基本痊愈。

So two weeks of balanced THC CBD oil, took insomniacs and basically cured sixty percent of them.

让他们从无法入睡变为能够入睡。

So put them from unable to sleep to basically able to sleep.

他们还观察到这些患者的褪黑素水平也有所上升。

And they also saw an increase in, melatonin, in those in those patients as well.

因此，睡前服用CBD和THC油，不仅改善了整体睡眠时长，还促进了褪黑素的释放，这相当有趣。

So basically taking the c b THC CBD oil before bed led to an improvement in overall sleep duration as well as improved melatonin melatonin release, which is kinda interesting.

另一项研究则考察了对睡眠结构的影响，结果显示睡眠潜伏期缩短、深度睡眠增加、REM睡眠比例和密度降低。

And then there's another study that looked at effects on sleep architecture, showed decreased sleep latency, increased deep sleep, decreased or decreased REM percentage and REM density.

这很有趣。

So that's interesting.

所以，这可能是一个负面因素。

So, that could be potentially a negative piece.

REM潜伏期延长了。

REM latency was prolonged.

这其实也是负面的。

That's actually negative as well.

所以看起来，关于睡眠的研究结果似乎是混合的。

So kinda like mixed findings in sleep, it looks it looks like.

这很有趣。

It's interesting.

我接触过很多经常使用大麻或THC来助眠的人。

I've talked to a lot of people who use, use THC, use pot regularly for sleep.

根据我与患者和朋友交流的个人经验，有些人非常喜欢，有些人则非常反感。

And the it seems like just in my, like, own experience in talking to talking to patients and friends, some people seem to love it and some hate it.

显然，这里存在明显的两极分化。

Like, there's a there's definitely, like, a dichotomy there.

有些人非常依赖它，说这能让我睡着。

Like, there's people who are, like, swear by it and say, like, this puts me to sleep.

我睡得特别好。

I have amazing sleep.

他们会追踪自己的睡眠数据。

They track their sleep aura.

看起来很不错，所有这些指标都很好。

It looks good, all those things.

而有些人则完全不行。

And then there's people who are like, absolutely no way.

它让我感到偏执和焦虑，根本睡不着。

Like, it makes me paranoid and anxious, and I can't sleep.

所以这里确实存在明显的两极分化。

So it's there's a clear dichotomy there for sure.

好的，迈克。

Alright, Mike.

所以，如果有人一直在被动地听这个播客，并且听到了我们反复讨论大麻的利弊和风险。

So if someone's been, passively listening to this podcast and they've heard us wave in and out of this topic of the pros and cons and the risks of marijuana.

劳伦刚刚在我们的聊天中留言说，目前还没有明确的临床共识表明大麻能普遍有效地改善睡眠。

Lauren just posted here in our chat here that she said, there's no clear cut clinical consensus that cannabis reliably improves sleep across the board.

在我们梳理这些证据的过程中，整个情况就是这样的感觉。

As we were going through the evidence, that's what this entire thing felt like.

而相比之下，裸盖菇素似乎没有这么复杂，它看起来更像是一个更清晰的、改善细胞机制的潜在路径。

Whereas, with psilocybin, it didn't seem like we had a similar complexity where it seemed like it was a potentially a cleaner path for improved cellular mechanisms.

但也许只是我们尚未充分研究而已。

But then again, maybe there's just a limitation we haven't studied enough.

但关于大麻，数据似乎要复杂得多。

But with marijuana, it seems like the data is much more complex.

这样的评价公平吗？

Is that a fair assessment?

还是说，这只是因为裸盖菇素的研究不如大麻那么充分？

Or do you think that's just that the research on psilocybin is not as well studied as, marijuana?

我认为这里的原因是多方面的。

I think it's multifactorial here.

是的，裸盖菇素的研究比大麻少。

So yes, psilocybin is less studied than marijuana.

大麻的研究更多。

Marijuana is more studied.

多年来，大麻一直受到负面的文化偏见。

It's a hot topic in that for many years, there was a, a negative cultural sentiment towards marijuana.

在那段时间，出现了大量负面研究，而现在情况反转，更多正面研究出现了。

So during that time frame, you saw a lot more negative studies come out, and now there's been a flip, and now there's more positive studies.

所以，文化规范如何影响科学研究，这一点很有趣，这可能比大麻本身更让情况变得复杂。

So, like, it's interesting how, like, cultural norms play into, scientific research, and that's probably muddying the water forest more than it may be muddied by itself.

或者，这可能是因为其机制非常复杂且因人而异，我更倾向于这种看法。

Or it could be that there is a very complex mechanism here that's very individualistic, which is maybe the way I would lean to.

这在很大程度上取决于你是谁，以及你的大脑化学机制如何运作，从而决定大麻是改善还是损害你的睡眠。

It that, like, it sort of depends on who you are and how your brain chemistry works, whether you have sleep benefit or sleep downside from from marijuana.

毫无疑问，我认为有大量的证据表明，大麻在某些人身上对炎症、睡眠和焦虑等方面有潜在益处，这表明大麻可能为一些人带来积极体验。

There's certainly, like, I believe that there is a there's a wealth of evidence that there are some benefits, regarding, inflammation, potentially sleep in some people, anxiety in some people that speak to the opportunity for marijuana being a positive experience for people.

但显然也有负面影响。

Yet there are obviously downsides as well.

吸烟显然有害。

Smoking is clearly bad.

经常使用大麻显然也不好。

Using it on a regular basis is clearly bad.

因此，尽管我认为这其中存在复杂性，但如果你发现自己主观上有所改善，并且能通过某种睡眠监测设备追踪到这种变化，那么大麻对你来说可能是一种有益的药物。

So while I think there's nuance, I think if you are someone who appears to have subjective improvement and you can track it maybe with, you know, your a sleeping device of some sort, then it might be a a beneficial drug for you.

但你要确保自己不要陷入大麻使用障碍的境地，即每天多次使用。

But you wanna make sure you don't get into that realm of cannabis use disorder where you're using it multiple times a day every day.

你不能觉得非用不可，否则负面副作用又会重新出现。

It's a thing that you have to have because then you start seeing those negative side effects again.

希望这些内容至少能为一些人理清一些思路。

So hopefully, that distills it at least somewhat for some people.

但不幸的是，我认为这是一个必须坦诚面对的问题，因为对不同的人来说，情况会有所不同。

But I unfortunately, I think this is this is one of those answers where you have to be real and say, like, you know, it's gonna be different for different people.

我最近和斯诺普·道格在一起，有机会和他聊了聊，当然，我和他交谈时，他正处于典型的兴奋状态。

I was recently with Snoop Dogg, and I had the opportunity to talk to him about I mean, he was high as one may expect when I was talking to him.

所以我不太确定他到底听清了我说的多少内容。

So I'm not quite sure how much, he heard what I was saying.

但他已经抽烟很长时间了。

But, you know, he's he's been, smoking for quite some time now.

我的意思是，他可能是最早的使用者之一。

I mean, for as long, I guess, like, I think he was, the earliest of adopters.

我敢想象，对于斯诺普来说，这已经是他的日常状态了。

I gotta imagine Snoop just like his like, he's it's baseline for him at this point.

对吧？

Right?

我相信他肯定听到了你所说的每一句话。

Like, I'm so I'm sure he heard everything you're saying.

我觉得，到目前为止，他可能在吸食时比不吸食时想得更好。

Like, he probably at this point, he probably thinks better when he's smoking than when he's smoking.

这是我的主观看法。

This is my subjective opinion.

我很难想到我生活中有谁长期使用大麻——无论是食用制品还是其他形式——我能说他们处于某种理想状态。也许有我 unaware 的例外，但我一般不认识那些靠吸食大麻就过得很好的人。

I struggle to identify anyone in my life that consistently uses weed, any version of it, edibles, and of any variety that I would say is like in some ideal state, maybe there's exceptions I'm unaware of, but I just generally do not know regular users that are just doing that are thriving.

我想知道，在你生活中有多少你并不了解的常规使用者。

I wonder how many people in your life you don't know, regular users.

没错。

Exactly.

我同意这一点。

I I agree with that.

这肯定是我的一个风险，那就是我的数据集并不完整。

It's definitely a risk of my that I the data sets are complete.

所以，是的。

So yeah.

所以，如果你正在听这个，而且你是经常使用者，认为自己过得很好，首先，问问你的朋友，想想看，你需要一些不经常使用大麻的朋友。

So if you're listening to this and you are a regular user and you think you're thriving, first, check with your friends and think, you know, get and well, first, like, you need friends that are not regular users.

然后，在他们不是经常使用者的前提下，去询问他们你的情况如何。

And then once they are not regular users, then survey them and inquire them of how you're doing.

接着，把你的评论放在下面的栏目里。

Then put your comment in, the section below.

让我们知道，如果我们没有评估过这个特性的话。

Let us know if we've not assessed if I've not assessed this property.

还有，提供你的生物标志物。

Also, us your biomarkers.

我们希望

We want

我们希望你这样做。

we want you to.

也许比朋友的意见更可靠的来源。

Perhaps a more reliable source than your friends' opinions.

说得好，凯特。

That's a good point, Kate.

我们想知道，布莱恩，你和斯努普·道格一起抽过烟吗？

We wanna know, Brian, did you smoke with Snoop Dogg?

和斯努普？没有，我没抽过。

With Snoop, no, didn't.

我试过CBD和THC，还有它们的各种组合。

I've tried, CBD and THC and then various combinations of those two.

每次使用后，我都觉得自己变傻了。

And whenever I do, it makes me feel dumb.

我感觉自己的智商一下子掉了50点，完全没法思考。

It makes me feel like my my like, I lose 50 IQ points, and I just can't think.

我觉得这并不有趣。

I don't find it enjoyable.

我觉得这既不提神，还让人有点窒息。

I find it to be just not stimulating and, kind of claustrophobic.

所以我并不喜欢。

So I don't enjoy it.

我试过用它来助眠。

I tried it for sleep.

我试过用THC助眠，结果导致宿醉和头痛。

I tried, THC for sleep, and it gave me a sleep hangover and a headache.

所以它对我没用。

So it didn't work.

我觉得第一晚可能让睡眠更深了一些，但到了第二、第三晚就很快失效了。

I think it maybe had some small effect of a deeper sleep the first night, but then it quickly wore off in the second, third night.

因此，我对任何形式的大麻都毫无成功经验。

So I've had zero success with any form of marijuana.

但话说回来，我也没认真尝试过。

But then again, I haven't done rigor.

这都是多年前的事了，那时我们还没开始做严谨的研究和测量。

This is like years ago before we were doing rigorous studies and measuring.

这就像在大麻合法化后去尝试一样。

This is just like trying things out when it became legalized.

有趣的是，我尝试大麻的经历和迈克描述的一样，不适合我。

Funnily enough, I have my experiences in trying marijuana have been the camp that Mike described where it is not for me.

我100次尝试全是糟糕的经历，简直痛苦至极。

I have 100 out of 100 horrible experiences, absolutely excruciating.

所以我确实学到了。

So I've definitely learned.

这不适合我。

It's not for me.

我也是。

Same.

真的吗？

Really?

哇，

Wow,

这很有趣，我们三个人都这样。

that's fascinating that all three of us are like that.

我小时候，这是一次非常积极的体验。

When I was a kid, it was a very positive experience.

真的吗？

Really?

对我来说。

For me.

哦，对，没错。

Oh yeah, right.

是啊，大概到二十岁出头之前都是这样。

Yeah, until early twenties maybe.

然后就反转了，变成了极其负面的体验，100%负面，就像UK一样。

And then it flipped and it turned into an extremely negative experience, 100, a 100 negative, just like UK.

哇。

Wow.

所以

So

嗯。

Yep.

如果我们做这个播客，嗨。

So if we did this podcast, hi.

那会非常有趣。

That would be very interesting.

你觉得会发生什么？

What do we think would happen?

我们谁都不会说话，只是带着猜疑互相盯着。

None of us would talk, and we would stare at one another with paranoia.

我们会坐在这里盯着对方，想：什么？

We would just sit here staring like, what?

在流行文化中，我了解到很多讨论都围绕着这些高度优化的化合物。

How much of, like, I know in pop culture, the conversation a lot is around, like, these are really hyper optimized compounds now.

我们对这一点有多少了解，迈克？

How much do we do we have any information on that, Mike?

比如，这在多大程度上影响了人们的日常生活体验？

Like, how much that might be affecting the day to day experience people?

可能影响很大。

Probably a lot.

是的。

Yeah.

我见过一些数据，虽然现在想不起来具体数字，但好像标准剂量中的实际化学物质含量增加了100%到200%。

I've seen, I don't remember off the top of my head, but I've seen something like, you know, 100, 200% increased, amount of actual chemical in a standard dose.

没错，如今商店里卖的大麻根本不是我们父母那一代的品种。

Like, yeah, just this is not our parents' marijuana that's being sold at stores these days.

好的。

Okay.

所以如果我们总结一下，回顾上一期和这一期的内容，我们会说，在这些各种药物的排名中，我不该说‘娱乐性药物’，就说药物吧，裸盖菇素和氯胺酮在延寿友好型药物中位居前列。

So if we're going to summarize this, then if we, cover last episode and also this episode, we would say of the rankings of these various recreational drugs, I shouldn't even say recreational, just say drugs, Psilocybin is among the top of longevity friendly as is ketamine.

LSD很有趣，迈克，你提到是因为它的作用机制相似。

LSD is interesting, Mike, you said because of the similarity of its, mechanism of action.

DMT是新兴的。

DMT is emergent.

目前证据不多，但有一些早期的新兴证据表明它可能对大脑有益。

There's not a lot of evidence there, but, there's an early emergent evidence that it could be beneficial for the brain.

而大麻，大多数证据显示是负面的，偶尔有一些急性应用可能有效，但大量使用可能有害。

And then marijuana, which is, mostly negative evidence, And occasionally, you've got some acute applications that may work, but heavy usage may be damned.

这样总结我们如何评估致幻剂对长寿的影响，公平吗？

Is that a fair summary of how we would score, psychedelics for longevity?

我有点犹豫，因为目前数据还很少。

I'm hemming and hawing because it's just like there's just not a ton of data yet.

但根据我们现有的数据，是的，我觉得这是一个不错的初步结论。

But based on the data that we have, yeah, I think that's that's a fair start.

而且还要考虑这些药物的安全性，大多数致幻剂的安全性相对较好，而我们之前提到的那些不安全的药物则明显相反。

And then also thinking about, like, the safety profile of most of these medications being, you know, fairly positive for the psychedelics, obviously very negative for the drugs that we mentioned earlier that are not safe.

我觉得这很合理。

I think that's reasonable.

我也想说，抱歉。

I get this also wanna just like sorry.

我觉得有必要提醒大家，不要一厢情愿地认为：我想长寿，所以我去吃十克裸盖菇素。

I feel the need to caution people about, like, just going out there and be like, I wanna I wanna live a long time, so I'm gonna go take ten grams of psilocybin.

这些药物都有一个非常重要的前提：心态和环境至关重要，确保你了解自己在做什么，有向导陪同，有经验丰富的人员在场——这些都极其重要。

Like, these all of these drugs come with the, like, whopping caveat that, like, set in settings is important, making sure you're understanding what you're doing, having a guide, having someone who's experienced, all those things are extremely important.

所以请不要把这当作可以随意开始无脑实验的许可。

So please don't take this as an approval to go and just start experimenting without any thought or protocol beforehand.

这显然不是我们的本意。

That's obviously not what we're about here.

事实上，一定要咨询你的医疗提供者或负责你护理的团队，因为你需要在采取适当预防措施的前提下进行。

In fact, make sure you definitely consult with whoever your medical provider is or whoever your team is looking after your care because you want to do this with the appropriate precautions.

如果你真要这么做的话。

If you do this at all.

而且绝对不是在鼓励这样做。

And definitely not to say we are encouraging it.

还有要避开的东西，比如可卡因、冰毒、海洛因。

And then the things to stay away from cocaine, meth, heroin.

芬太尼。

Fentanyl.

芬太尼。

Fentanyl.

你必须准备好你的防死亡药物包，包括我们上次在屏幕上展示过的鼻喷剂和检测试纸。

You have to have your don't die drug kit for the nasal spray we put up on screen last time and also the test strips.

千万不要让自己陷入危险的境地，那样因意外丧生真是太糟糕了。

Just don't put yourself in a compromised situation, and what a terrible way to for life to end in that kind of accident.

有一点要说明的是，我们三个人刚刚聊到，我们个人并不使用大麻。

One note is, like, the three of us, we just talked about how we don't personally use weed.

我知道有很多人对大麻有非常积极的体验。

I know a lot of people out there have a lot of positive experience with weed.

慢性疼痛是一个非常重要的方面，显而易见，还有助于入睡，我们知道睡眠的重要性。

Chronic pain is a really big one, obviously, but getting to sleep, and we know the importance of sleep.

所以我要指出的是，确实有一些人自我报告大麻带来了积极的好处。

So just to call out that there are definitely use cases for weed that people have self reported positive benefit from.

我想这让我们回到了我们一直所说的话，那就是要自我衡量。

I guess this brings us back to what we've always said, which is measure yourself.

所以要确保你知道大麻是否影响了你的睡眠结构，例如。

So make sure you know is your sleep architecture being impacted by weed, for example.

说得好，凯特。

Good point, Kate.

我本来想引出这种细微差别，但没错，也许因为我们三个人都不是使用者，所以负面印象显得比正面更强烈。

I was trying to elicit that nuance, but yeah, think maybe all of us being non users maybe made the negative come across a little bit more more strongly than the positive.

确实有一些人通过规律使用大麻获得了一些益处。

There's certainly some benefits that some people have with regular use of marijuana.

是的。

Yeah.

实际上，我很想听听你们在评论区的分享。

Actually, would love to hear from you guys in the comments.

那些在生活中成功使用大麻的人，我很想了解你们用它来做什么，以及你们是如何使用的。

Those of you who do use weed successfully in your life, I would love to hear what you're using it for and your approach to doing so.

我承认，由于我自己的个人经历和互动，我对它抱有负面偏见，但我完全愿意承认自己可能是错的，只是我还不了解那些真正对人们有帮助、而其他方法无法替代的积极用途。

I do admit that I have a negative bias towards it through my own personal life experience and my own interactions, but I'm entirely open to being incorrect on this and that, I just I'm unaware of the positive use cases that are genuinely helpful to people in ways that other things are not.

因为我知道，当你在应对一个复杂的问题，而其他方法都无效时，一旦找到有效的解决方案，那简直就是珍宝。

Because I know when you're trying to deal with a complicated thing and nothing else solves that problem, that when you do find it, it's a gem.

所以，大麻可能正是填补了那个空缺，因为其他方法根本无法解决。

So that may be the case where marijuana really is plugging that hole, there's just nothing else can solve.

这对其他人来说非常重要，我们不应该让这个对话过度偏向，从而让可能从中受益的人错过机会。

And that would be a really important for others to understand and that we don't overly, bias this conversation for others who could benefit from the same thing.

我们没提到的一件事是，未来节目可以探讨一下MDMA。

One thing we didn't cover, which would be cool to cover in future episodes would be MDMA.

我想我们完全没提到过它。

We didn't cover that at all, I don't think.

我们怎么没提到MDMA？

How did we not cover MDMA?

是啊。

Yeah.

它几乎是唯一一个差点获得FDA批准用于我们所讨论的这些用途的药物。

It's like that's the one that almost got FDA approval for the things we're talking about.

我们为什么不把下一个主题定为它呢？

Why don't we put that as the next one?

对，听起来不错。

Yeah, sounds good.

好了，朋友们，就是这样。

Okay, friends, there you go.

所以再次提醒，这并不是鼓励大家使用致幻剂。

So again, a reminder, this is not an encouragement to do psychedelics.

这是一场关于各种药物潜在健康影响和风险的讨论。

This is a conversation to discuss the potential health effects and complications of various drugs.

所以请多加留意，小心行事，确保你只在合法和安全的环境中进行这些活动。

So be mindful, be careful, make sure you're only doing things in a legal and safe setting.

这些事情绝不能随意玩弄。

These things are not to be, played around with.

你绝对不希望处于一种受制的境地。

You definitely don't want to be in a compromised situation.

请告诉我们你的想法，我们在对话中遗漏了哪些内容，以及我们本应识别但未发现的证据，还有你个人与大麻等物质相关的经历。

Please let us know your thoughts, the things we missed in conversation and what we should have been identifying for evidence that we missed, and your personal life experience with things, for example, like marijuana.

好吧。

All right.

保重。

Be well.

这是布莱恩·约翰逊播客。

This is the Brian Johnson Podcast.

特别感谢我的联合主持人凯特·托洛和医生。

Special thanks to my co hosts, Kate Tolo and Doctor.

迈克·马隆。

Mike Mallon.

如需更多科学解析和方案，请订阅我的YouTube频道，在您喜爱的平台关注本播客，或在Instagram或X上关注我：brianjohnson。

For more science breakdowns and protocols, subscribe to my YouTube channel, follow the podcast on your favorite platform, or follow me on Instagram or x brianjohnson.