克里斯汀·卡瓦拉里：所以你想约会运动员？（FBF）

爸爸帮最近怎么样？我是你们的创始人Alex Cooper，这里是《Call

What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with call

Her Daddy，爸爸爸爸爸爸爸爸。

her daddy daddy daddy daddy.

准备好了吗？

Are we ready?

好了。

Okay.

这笑声，我太熟悉了。现在真人坐在我面前，感觉好神奇。好了，好了。

That laugh. I like I know it so well. It's like so weird to be in person with you now. Okay. Okay.

Kristen Cavallari，欢迎来到《Call Her Daddy》。

Kristen Cavallari, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我一直是你的超级粉丝。《拉古纳海滩》《好莱坞女孩》，DVD我全有，和妹妹一起刷剧，一刷就停不下来。但另一个让我特别激动请你来的原因，是我也在关注你的社交媒体。

I have always been a huge fan. Laguna, The Hills, owned all the DVDs, would watch with my sister, would binge watch. But another reason I was super excited to have you on was because I follow you on social media.

哦，谢谢。

Oh, thanks.

我敬佩你做的所有事业，但尤其欣赏你在孩子方面的选择——你决定几乎不让他们露面，把他们的生活保留私密。我真的很尊重这一点。谢谢。你是怎么做出这个决定、选择用这种方式保护孩子、不让他们出现在社交媒体上的？

I respect everything you're doing, your career, but specifically with your children, you deciding to not really show them and keep that part of their life private. Mean, I really respect it. Thanks. How did you decide to take that approach and protect your children by keeping them off social media?

嗯，谢谢你，因为很多人不理解。但如果你回到我刚开始用Instagram的时候，我大儿子Camden小时候的照片确实在上面，有一点点。

Well, thank you, because a lot of people don't understand it. But if you go back to when I first joined Instagram, Camden, my oldest, is on there when he was a baby, a little bit.

好的。

Okay.

后来我们就决定，想给他们机会自己做这个决定。你知道，我的孩子可能根本不想被人认识或怎样。我想尊重这一点，等他们够大时让他们自己选。

And then we just decided that we wanted to give them the opportunity to make that decision. You know, my kids may want no part of being known or whatever. And I want to respect that and give them that chance to decide when they're old enough.

对。我觉得这在社交媒体上是个很大的争议，因为很多人连婴儿都往上发。

Yeah. I feel like that's like a huge debate on social media because so many people with social media are posting even like their infant.

是啊。

Yeah.

然后就会有人争论说，等等，这有点过分吧，他们都没发言权，整个人生就被记录了，等他们上高中，别人会说‘我有一堆你小时候的Instagram照片’。但我觉得这是个很好的决定，等我有了孩子我肯定也这么做。你觉得他们什么时候会开始用社交媒体？

And then there's the debate of like, wait, that's kind of fucked up because they don't have a say and now their whole life is gonna be documented and then they're gonna get to high school and people are gonna be like, I have all these Instagram photos of you. But I think it's a it's a really good decision, and I definitely wanna do that when I have children. When do you think they'll get on social media?

我希望他们到20岁再说。

I hope not until they're like 20.

感觉我都不会给他们手机。他们永远别想有。

Feel like I'm not giving them a phone. They're never gonna be.

16岁吧，算是比较现实，也足够晚，希望那时他们皮厚一点，能扛住一些批评。因为说到底，我最大的担心就是社交媒体上的人可以有多恶毒。太离谱了。一旦涉及你的孩子，你就想尽全力保护他们。

16, I'd say, is probably realistic and long enough where hopefully they have decently thick skin and can handle some criticism. Because ultimately, that's my biggest concern with it, is just how nasty people can be on social media. Ridiculous. Yeah. And when it's your kids, it's like, I wanna do everything to protect them.

你小时候没有社交媒体，但我好奇，你有没有过什么志向想要成为

There was no social media when you were growing up, but I'm curious, did you have aspirations at all to be

我确实是在高中才真正开始的。但在MTV出现之前，我想学的是广播新闻，打算通过主持工作慢慢进入娱乐圈。后来MTV来了，一切就像天上掉馅饼一样。我高中毕业就搬去了洛杉矶，开始在洛约拉马利蒙特大学上课，结果真的只去上了一节课，就一节。

I did and it wasn't really until high school. But before MTV came, I wanted to study broadcast journalism and kind of work my way in the entertainment world through hosting. But then MTV came and everything just kind of fell in my lap and I thought, when well I graduated high school I moved up to LA. I started at Loyola Marymount. I literally went to one class, like literally one class.

然后我接下了UPN的一个工作，你们可能都不记得那个电视台了，但当年它确实存在。我在主持一档节目。于是我的借口就是，我在全国到处跑，显然没法上大学。倒不是我想鼓吹不上大学，但这对我来说是最好的选择。

And then I booked a job on UPN which you guys probably don't even remember that network but it was a network back in the day. I was hosting a show. And so my excuse was, well, I'm traveling around the country. I obviously can't go to college. And not that I wanna, like, promote not going to college, but it's the best thing I ever could have done.

大学对我一点用都没有。

College would have done nothing for me.

对，因为你基本上已经定型了，高中就开始，这很不寻常，尤其是电视行业。对，你还在上高中。

Right. Because you already kind of had a career set in stone because you started started in high school, which is like not normal, especially for like Right. Television. Yeah. You're in high school.

现在咱们得继续聊。好的，MTV选你参加他们的新节目。你问父母能不能参加时，他们怎么说？

Now we gotta go through it. Okay. And MTV picks you to be on their new show. Yeah. What did your parents say when you asked them if you could be on the show?

那时我和爸爸住在拉古纳海滩。妈妈在芝加哥郊区。妈妈确实有些顾虑，因为当时的MTV有点丑闻缠身。那件事就发生在超级碗珍妮特·杰克逊露胸事件之后。他们的名声不太好。

Well, so I was living with my dad in Laguna Beach. My mom was in a suburb of Chicago. My mom definitely had reservations because at the time MTV was a little scandalous at the time. That was right after the Janet Jackson boob thing happened at the Super Bowl. And they didn't have the best rep.

所以她有点担心，但我爸爸完全支持。而且因为我跟爸爸住，我很确定只需要爸爸签字同意就行。

And so she was a little worried but my dad was all for it. And because I lived with my dad, I'm pretty sure I only had to have my dad sign off on it.

你就跟妈妈说“我才不干呢”。你觉得你爸为什么能接受？

You're like mom I'm not even doing it Why do you think your dad was okay with it?

我觉得他看到了机会，你懂吧？他就是这么想的，而且——我们当时谁也不知道节目会变成什么样。不知道。我爸当时可能还觉得，哦，不错，拍个小家庭录像？

I think he saw the opportunity, you know? Mean, he just did and and well, also, of us knew what the show was gonna turn into. No. You know, my dad probably at the time was like, oh, cute. A little home movie?

没问题。去玩玩吧。等等。

No problem. Have fun. Wait.

那很可能就像个学校作业，老爸。只是恰好来自MTV。疯狂的是，当时真的还没人因为真人秀出名。是啊，所以那就像个未被发掘的概念。

It literally probably was like a school project, dad. It just happens to be from MTV. And it's crazy because reality TV really like no one had gotten famous from that yet. Yeah. So it was kind of like an undiscovered concept.

所以我能理解父母为什么会说，

So I can kinda understand why parents would be like,

当然。

sure.

是啊，那时候跟现在不一样。没人知道，你懂的。完全。显然当时已经有《真实世界》了。

Yeah. It wasn't like it is today. No one knew, you know. Mean Totally. Obviously there was the real world at the time.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我想《简单生活》已经播了，可能还有《奥斯本一家》，但除此之外，真的没什么了。完全。所以，我们这是未知领域，我们一无所知。

I think the simple life had already happened and maybe the Osborn show, but other than that, there was there was nothing really. Totally. So yeah, we this was unchartered territory. We had no idea.

我在想象自己高中时被选上节目。我肯定会被退学，我会直接辍学

I'm trying to picture myself in high school getting cast on a show. I would have failed out. I would have dropped out

因为那样。

because way.

你会想你会他妈的碾压全场。这就是重点。

You would have been like You would have fucking crushed it. That's the point though.

我会想，我迷死了，我能跟男生去派对，这他妈

I would have been like, I'm obsessed. I get to go party with boys. Like, how the fuck

那是我。

did That was me.

好吧。我在想，它有没有完全占据你的生活？

Okay. I was wondering like, did it fully take over your life?

哦，我是说，有啊。嗯，也算有也算没有。说有，是因为拉古纳海滩的每个人都在聊这个。我们差不多每个周末都在拍，持续了九个月左右。

Oh, I mean, yeah. Well, yes and no. Yes in the sense that, yes. I mean, that was like what everyone in Laguna Beach was talking about. We filmed every weekend for like nine months or something.

但因为还在上高中，我其实平时照常去上课。所以周一到周五，我的生活挺正常：上学、干我该干的事。拍摄一般放在周四，但大多是周五、周六、周日。

But because we were still in high school, I mean I was actually going to class still. And so during the weeks, know my life was normal. I was going to school, doing whatever I was doing. And then we would film I think sometimes Thursdays, but mostly Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

节目播出后，学校里那些没上节目的同学会怎么对你们？

When you came out, did people that were in your school that weren't on the show treat you guys

不会。好吧。不一样？第一季的时候，所有人都去试镜了，对吧？

No. Okay. Different? What happened was the first season, everybody auditioned. Right?

大家都试了。后来那些没选上的人就开始骂MTV，各种不爽。结果第二季他们就上了。我当时想，哦，真的吗？行吧。

Everyone did. Well, and then when those people didn't get it, fuck MTV, blah, that whole thing. And then those people were on season two. And I was like, oh really? Right.

骂MTV，把我气坏了。不过也能理解，真的。第一季播出时，我读高三。

Fuck MTV. That pissed me off. But I mean, it's understandable. Totally. And then when it aired, the first season aired, I was a senior in high school.

塔琳和我还在，其他人都毕业上大学了。就那会儿，刚进校的新生看我的眼神有点不一样。嗯。我当时想，好吧，这感觉怪怪的。

Talyn and I were everyone else graduated, went on to school. That was the one time the freshman coming in looked at me a little differently. Mhmm. And I was like, okay, this is weird.

你说过和父亲的裂痕在心理治疗里很难修复。小时候，你们之间的核心矛盾到底是什么？

You talked about the fact that your relationship with your dad was hard to heal in therapy. When you were growing up, what was that core issue between the two of you?

说实话，我爸经常不在我们身边。父母离婚前我们住在康涅狄格，后来他搬去了科罗拉多。大概有一阵子我一个月才能见他一次。之后他们在科罗拉多正式离婚，我爸很快又搬去了拉古纳海滩，而我留在科罗拉多。后来我妈再婚，我跟着她搬到了芝加哥。

Well, my dad wasn't around a lot, to be honest. We were living in Connecticut before my parents got a divorce and my dad had moved to Colorado. I think I saw him maybe like once a month, like for a while. And then in Colorado is when my parents got divorced and my dad shortly thereafter moved to Laguna Beach and I was still in Colorado. Then my mom got remarried and I moved to Chicago.

高一那年，我搬去拉古纳，跟爸爸、比他小二十岁的继母，以及当时刚被甩的哥哥一起住。我哥先去拉古纳，我去芝加哥。说实话，我和爸爸一直不亲近。我记得整个高中，我根本不想回家。

And then my freshman year of high school is when I moved to Laguna. Moved in with my dad, my stepmom who was twenty years younger than my dad and my brother at the time who had also been broken up with. He moved to Laguna when I moved to Chicago. And honestly, my dad and I were just never close. And I just remember in high school, I never wanted to be home.

我就是不想待在那个环境里。所以我特别沉迷交朋友、出去玩，算是派对女孩。只有在那些场合我才觉得有连接。

I just never wanted to be around that environment. So that's why I think I fell into friendships a lot going out. I was kind of the party girl. And I was just that's where I found connections.

你当时想搬去拉古纳吗？

Did you want to move to Laguna?

算是被迫的，因为我在芝加哥惹了太多麻烦，跟继兄也闹得很僵，所有事凑在一起，我只能走。我妈想把我送去寄宿学校，我爸说让他试试。

I sort of had to because I was getting in so much trouble in Chicago. And I had a major issue with my step brother. And like all of the pieces just fell into place for me to move. My mom wanted to ship me off to boarding school. And my dad said, let me give it a go.

让他看看能不能驯服这头野兽。于是我高一搬去拉古纳，那成了我人生中最棒的决定。

Let me see if I can control this wild beast. So I moved to Laguna my freshman year of high school. And honestly, the best thing that's ever happened to me.

高中时你对自己哪些方面自信，哪些方面又自卑？

What were you confident about in high school and what were you insecure about?

有趣的是，在《拉古纳海滩》里大家都觉得我超级自信。可为了做播客重看那些集数时，我一点也没看到自信，反而看到一个极度不安的女孩。俗话说“自信安静，自卑喧哗”，我就是后者，在用喧哗掩盖骨子里的不安。

Well it's funny because on Laguna Beach everyone thought I was a super confident kid. And now that I've had to go back and watch the episodes for my podcast, I don't see a confident girl at all. I see actually someone who's incredibly insecure. You know that saying confidence is quiet, insecurity is loud, well I was that. I was overcompensating for my insane amount of insecurity.

我觉得大多数青少年都是一团糟。17岁谁能知道自己是谁？但对我来说，更大原因可能是当时身边没有真正亲近的家人。现在我妈是我最好的朋友，可那时我们并不亲，我也不跟她住。

And so I think most kids are a mess. You know most high school kids, you don't know who the fuck you are at 17 years old. But I think really probably because I didn't have a family member in my life that I was really close to. My mom now is my best friend but at the time we were not close. Wasn't living with her.

总之我就是不想回家，我想这是关键。

Know, I never wanted to be home. So I think that was probably a large part of it for me.

这真的很有意思，因为我觉得回看的时候，有时候你脑子里在想自己的不安，你会觉得，我好像一个人在这儿干自己的事。是啊，你就得装到成功为止。没错。你以前和同龄人社交时，有没有什么是让你感到不安的？

That is really interesting because I think like watching it back, sometimes when you're in your head about whatever your insecurity is for you, you're like, I kind of feel like I'm alone out here doing my fucking thing. Yeah. You kind of just have to fake it till you make it. Exactly. Was there anything when you were social with your peers that you were insecure about?

没有。我觉得那正是我找到自我认同的地方。我小时候搬过很多次家，因为我总是新来的女孩。我是个幸存者。你可以把我扔到任何环境里，我都能搞定。

No. Mean, that's really where I kind of found my identity, I think. And so I moved around a lot growing up, and I think because I was always the new girl. I was a survivor. Like you could throw me in any situation and I was gonna figure it out.

我知道怎么在各种场合里周旋。也许我的自信就来自这里，因为我不会缩在角落里受苦。我会像，砰，我来了，走吧。但我也一直在装。

I knew how to navigate through situations. That's maybe where like the confidence came from because I wasn't someone who's gonna like you know crawl in the corner and and suffer. I was like, boom, here I am. Let's go. But I was faking it though.

太有道理了。我完全能共鸣，就是你走进一个房间，只有两个选择。是啊，所以有时候当那个“吵闹的人”，只是帮你进门，只要你散发出自信，最终你真的会变得自信。

That makes so much sense. I can completely relate to that where you're like, I'm about to walk in this room and I have two options. Yeah. And so sometimes being like the loud one, it just gets you in the door and it immediately if you exude confidence, eventually you're gonna fucking be confident.

嗯。

Yeah.

如果让你猜，要是当年MTV的摄像机没出现在你高中，你现在会是谁？

If you had to guess, who would you be now if the MTV cameras never showed up to your high school?

天啊，我爱这个问题。如果我没上《拉古娜海滩》，我可能会去上学，学广播新闻。希望我也能一步步闯进来。

Oh my god. I love that question. I mean, think wow. If I was never on Laguna Beach, I probably would have gone to school and you know, did broadcast studied broadcast journalism. Hopefully, I would have worked my way in still.

我不知道，我觉得在很多方面我可能不会像今天这样走得远。因为那么小就上电视，这些年经历的一切真的逼着我快速成长。年纪越大越明白，人生就是积木，一切开始有意义。所以我觉得我经历的一切，都是我该走的路。完全。

I don't know, I feel like in a lot of ways I probably wouldn't be as far along on my journey as I am today. Because ultimately being on TV at such a young age and going through everything I've gone through over the years has really forced me to grow up a lot I think. The older we get, we realize life is building blocks and everything starts to make sense. And so I feel like just everything that I've been through, I feel like this was supposed to be my journey. Totally.

所以我很难坐在这儿说“如果不是这样”。因为我就是觉得这是我命中注定的。

So I can't it's hard to sit here and be like, well, if not. Because I just feel like I was destined for this.

我觉得很多人着迷是因为，就像你说的，高中已经够难了。高中本身就是个尴尬期，你得搞清楚自己是谁，还得应对同龄人、家庭的各种关系。那是什么感觉？

I think a lot of people are fascinated because like you said, high school is hard enough. Like high school is such an awkward time. You're trying to figure out who the fuck you are. You're dealing with peer dynamics, family dynamics. How did it feel?

我觉得这正是我们大家都如此着迷的原因，因为让成年人拿着摄像机对着你的脸，其实一点都不自然。我印象里的你的镜头，总是像你和Alex早上赖在床上闲聊昨晚发生了什么。但那些大人闯进你的生活、搅动戏剧冲突，

And I think this is where we all are so fascinated with it because it's really not natural to have grown ups with cameras in your face. Like I feel like your scenes were always like you chilling in bed with Alex in the morning like discussing what happened the But night it's like how did it feel having these grown ups come into your life, stir up drama

嗯。

Yeah.

还为了节目效果去操控剧情，而你当时还在上高中，这种感觉怎么样？

And kinda like manipulate these storylines to get a good show going when you're in high school?

是啊，你这么一说，这关系确实很奇怪。我整个人生都有信任问题。可当你十七八岁的时候，有成年人利用你、操控局面，甚至很多时候直接当面撒谎。

Yeah. It's a weird dynamic when you really explain it like that. I mean, my whole life I had trust issues. But then really when you're 17, 18, and you have adults taking advantage of you and manipulating situations. And in a lot of ways, just straight up lying to your face.

这绝对会把你整得心神不宁。信任是我与人相处最大的难题，那件事显然让情况更糟。现在我长大了，也站在过另一边，比如《Very Cavallari》里我当执行制片人，这段经历给我的真人秀生涯画下完美句号，让我对行业留下好印象。但亲身参与那些“我们要抓这些故事线”的会议，真的大开眼界。

I mean, that's that'll rock your boat for sure. Trust is like my biggest issue with people. And so that obviously didn't help that situation. And now that I'm older and I've I've been on the other side of reality shows like Vary Cavallari, was an executive producer which was the best thing for me to end my reality TV career with that experience because it left a really good taste in my mouth. But it was also really eye opening to be involved in those conversations of like, oh these are the storylines we're getting.

不管你做什么，他们总会剪出自己想要的故事线。如今我成年了，也从制片角度理解他们为什么这么做——他们有工作要完成，我懂。只是当对象换成孩子时，这就很棘手了。

And no matter what you do, they're gonna get the storyline they want. So I understand from a producer's perspective, now that I'm an adult, why they do the things they do. They have a job to do. I get all of that. I just think it's a tricky thing when you're dealing with children.

我们当时就是孩子，所以这事真的很难办。

I mean, we were kids. That's where it's like, it's tough.

确实难办：一方面节目成了最火的大热款，另一方面你还得在高中过真实人生。你说他们当面撒谎，能举个你记得的例子吗？

It's really tough because in one part it became one of the biggest shows. And then on the other end it's like, yo, you're in high school, that's your life. When you say they would lie to your face, can you give us an example of something you remember?

呃……

Well,

我把《拉古娜海滩》和《好莱坞女孩》看成两种完全不同的经历。《拉古娜海滩》更偏向没人告诉我们发生了什么，也没人说明他们的意图，更没人让我们为即将到来的东西做准备。我只记得播出前有个制片人对我说：“你确实能让人看出你不是拉古娜本地人。”我当时想：“哦，好吧，这是什么意思？”

so I look at Laguna Beach and The Hills as two very different experiences. Laguna Beach was more just no one really ever told us what was going on or like what they were trying to do, know. No one prepared us for what was coming. I just remember one producer in particular before it aired saying, well you know you can definitely tell that you're not from Laguna Beach. And I was like, oh okay, like what does that mean?

然后节目播出后我就想，哦，你的意思是所有人都会他妈的讨厌我？这完全不是我啊。你知道的，但我就觉得，提前打个招呼告诉我你们把我整得多惨，那感觉会好点。

And then it came out and I was like, oh you mean because everyone's gonna fucking hate me? This is so not who I am. You know, but like, I don't know, a bigger heads up would have been nice how much you guys fucked with me. That kind of stuff.

你说“整你”，是指他们真的把你往反派角色里推？

When you say fucked with you, are you saying like they really leaned in to try to make you that villain role?

哦，哦，对。所以我特别喜欢和史蒂文一起做《回到海滩》播客，我们几乎逐帧拆解。这对我来说是种疗愈，也大开眼界，而且超有趣，因为我现在不再情绪上头了。当时我记得史蒂文说“事情不是那样”，可我根本听不进去，也信不了，因为我太难受了。

Oh, Oh, yeah. And that's why I've really loved doing the Back to the Beach podcast with Steven because we literally go through scene by scene and break it down. And it's been therapeutic for me, it's been eye opening, it's been really fun also just to break it all down because I'm not emotionally invested in it anymore. Where at the time, I remember Steven being like, that's not how it went down. But I couldn't hear him or believe him because I was so upset about it.

所以，能回头再看、把真相挖出来，我每一秒都很享受。

And so, yeah, being able to go back and watch it and just get to the bottom of it. I've loved every second of of it.

当你意识到“等等，我看起来像个反派”时，那对你心理上造成了什么冲击？

When you realize like, wait, I look like the villain in this. What the fuck did that do to you mentally?

我那时候真的挺崩溃的。我超难过，看到第一集时特别难受，真的很难受。

I was I was pretty wrecked for a while. I was so upset. I was really upset when I saw the first episode. It was hard.

就是你和劳伦·康拉德，基本第一集的前提就是你们俩抢一个男人。

It was you and Lauren Conrad. Essentially, the first premise was like you guys fighting over a guy.

对。

Yeah.

你和劳伦真的只因为史蒂文才闹矛盾，还是你们俩性格本来就合不来，就算没男人也会杠上？

Did you and Lauren was it really only over Steven or were you two just two personalities that probably would have always butt heads regardless of with if a guy was involved.

我们从来都不是朋友，但也从没吵过架，你知道吗？所以MTV一来，就把这事炒得比实际大太多了。

Well, we were never friends but we never fought or anything, you know? And so MTV coming definitely made it a way bigger thing than it ever was.

嗯。

Yeah.

Lauren 和 Steven 确实有过什么，但那是在 MTV 来之前。后来 MTV 听说了，就成了他们唯一关注的事。他们甚至想方设法让这段关系继续。那一刻我真的感到威胁，于是筑起了高墙。

And Lauren and Steven did have something, but it was before MTV came. And then of course MTV caught wind of That was like the only thing they focused on. And in a lot of ways, tried to keep it alive. And that was where I felt really threatened. And so I put up walls.

那是我 17 岁时唯一会做的事。完全没错。所以又回到了我一直是个幸存者的状态。一旦我觉得受到威胁，有人想抢属于我的东西，比如我男朋友之类的，我就会变得好斗。我只会这么做。

That was all I knew how to do at age 17. Totally. And so yeah, goes back to that thing where I was always a survivor. So And if I felt threatened and people were coming after something that was mine, aka my boyfriend or whatever it was, I was gonna get scrappy. Mean, that's just what I knew how to do.

我已经请过你现在的好几位剧组成员了。

I have had many of your now castmates on.

我听说了。

I've heard.

在《拉古纳海滩》和《好莱坞女孩》里，你直接跟 Adam DeVello 打交道，感觉如何？

And being on Laguna Beach and The Hills and getting to like directly interact with Adam DeVello, what was your experience with him?

说实话，一直都不怎么样。我对 Adam 有意见，毫无疑问。我也说过，现在成年了，我理解他为什么那么做，但不代表我认同。他得完成工作。我最不满的是，他会在节目里编些狗血的剧情，然后转头把小料喂给小报。

I mean, it was it was never great. I had my issues with Adam without a doubt. And again, I mean I kind of said it earlier, but I understand now as an adult why he did the things he did. It's not that I agree with them, but I mean he had a job to do. I think my biggest issue with what Adam did was he would create these storylines on the show that were bullshit, but then he would go and feed them to the tabloids.

所以你不光要在节目里演这些破事，还得在八卦杂志回应，人们给你贴根本不属实的标签。我明白，小报反过来也给节目加热，最后也算皆大欢喜。但我确实对 Adam 有意见。

So not only are you living this shit on the show, but then I'm having to answer questions in the tabloids and people are painting this picture of me, which isn't true at all. And again, I get it because the tabloids fueled the show. And you know, at the end of the day, it's all fine. It's all worked out. But I I had my issues with Adam for sure.

我觉得他不是个好人，但确实是个出色的制片人。不过我现在挺郁闷，本来 Steven 和我约了他上播客，他让我们一直等，拍摄前两天突然退出。这很糟糕：第一，你早可以说；第二，他开启了我的事业，对吧？我的职业生涯是他起步的。

I don't think he's a good person but I think he's a great producer. I'm actually kind of upset though because Steven and I were supposed to have him on our podcast and he, you know, had us going around and around and around and then two days before we were supposed to film, he pulled out. And it's just shitty because a, you could have told us upfront And b, he totally opened up my career. Right? Started my career.

可我们也成就了他。没有《拉古纳海滩》第一季的演员，Adam 也不会有今天。所以我觉得，为什么你不能来？这是互相尊重的事。回答几个关于节目怎么制作的提问，就完事了。

But we also started his career. Like without the cast of season one of Laguna Beach, Adam wouldn't be what he is either. So I just felt like, why can't you come on? It's a mutual respect thing. Answer some questions about how the show was created and we'll call it a day.

你算是造就了他。因为虽然他有了节目框架，但如果你们不现身演那些经典桥段，MTV 在那个类别里就不会有巨大的媒体大亨时刻。所以就像 Spencer 确实讲了 Heidi 的事。嗯——你知道那件事吗？

You kinda made him. Because yeah, he had like the format, but if you guys didn't show the fuck up and do your iconic scenes, like, there was not gonna be a huge media mogul moment for MTV in that category. So it's like Spencer did talk about what happened with Heidi. Mhmm. Did you know about that?

那你知道吗？

And do you know?

不知道。因为那发生在我还没加入节目之前。嗯——我对他的不满是他贿赂别人，还编造我吸毒、失控的剧情。说我二十出头就疯狂派对。

No. Because that was before I had come on the show. Mhmm. My issue with him was a bribing situation and him creating the storyline that I was doing drugs and was out of control. Partying my ass off in my early twenties.

我确实玩得很开心。我不后悔任何事。我从来没失控过，也从未让人担心，更不像《Us Weekly》写的那样不洗澡。

I had a really good time. I don't regret anything. I was never out of control. It was never cause for concern. I was never not showering which is like what Us Weekly had said.

说我得去戒毒所之类的鬼话。所以那真的很过分。

That I needed to go to rehab and all this shit. And so that wasn't cool.

我记得那事。

I remember that.

对。他用一个包包贿赂那些女孩，让她们在镜头前揭发我吸毒。但——那让我很难受。Adam 和我为此大吵一架。因为当时我把这事捅给《Us Weekly》，我在镜头前拍摄时会说，我知道是 Adam 到处乱讲。

Yeah. He bribed the girls to call me out on camera for doing drugs with a purse. But And and that was difficult. And Adam and I got in a huge fight about it. And because what I was doing then, because then he fueled it to Us Weekly, I would be on camera filming and I'd be like, I know it was Adam like going around just running my mouth.

对。然后 Adam 打电话给我说，你得别再这么说了。我说，可就是你干的啊。

Right. And Adam called me and he was like, you have to stop saying that. I was like, but you did.

那确实也很操蛋，我觉得你们有权利澄清。你并没有否定节目。你坐在这儿都说，他是个很棒的制作人，他确实懂行。对。

Well, that's also fucked and I think that's where I think it's fair for you guys. You're not discrediting the show. Even you sit here and you're saying, great producer. He knows what the fuck he's doing. Yeah.

但我觉得澄清名声是合理的，因为我正想问你，当年《The Hills》有个大新闻，说你吸毒、崩溃。他们趁你刚起床时拍你，那些女孩像要给你干预。我当时还想，Kristen 真的吸毒了吗？干预？这会影响到你，因为你的孩子们总有一天会看到。

But I do think it's fair to clear your name because I was gonna ask you that about like, there was that huge sin I remember with The Hills where it was like, she's on drugs, she spun out. And they, like, got you when you, like, just woke up and they were the girls were, like, trying to have an intervention. And I was like, is Kristen really on drugs? Like, intervention. And that that fucks with you because your kids are gonna watch that one day.

对啊，所以我觉得你至少得有机会把名声洗干净，这很公平。

Yeah. Like and so I think it's fair for you to be able to at least clear your fucking name with

毒品那部分。我开趴，我不会坐在这儿说我从没碰过。我玩得很爽，而且我一点也不后悔。

the drugs. I part I party. I'm not gonna sit here and say I never did. I had a lot of fun. And I'm glad that I did.

我已经把该体验的都体验完了。但我从没进过戒毒所，身边也没人担心我，一切完全在掌控中。

I got everything out of my system. But it was never I never needed rehab. No one in my life was concerned about me. Like it it was totally under control.

我喜欢这样。

I love that.

如果你能开趴又自控，那当然行。总之，我只希望Lo学到教训：凡事都得白纸黑字，懂吧？她最后连包都没拿到。

If there's if you can be a partier, that's under control. But yeah. And I yeah. So and I just hope that Lo learned you always have to get that shit in writing, you know? Because she never got her purse.

她没拿到？不会吧。等等，什么包？

She didn't? No. Stop. What what kind of purse was it?

我都忘了，好像是爱马仕Birkin。

I don't even remember. I wanna say it was a Birkin.

我靠，真的假的？可是——

Shut the fuck up. But

反正得写清楚。

you gotta get that shit in writing.

绝对。我会说：先把包给我，我再出场。没错。唉，爱情换不来Birkin。

Absolutely. I would have been like give it to me first and then I'll show up. Exactly. Damn. No Birkin for love.

抱歉，姑娘。

Sorry girl.

而且Kristen也没去戒毒所。

And no rehab for Kristen.

希望这一切都值得。

Hope it was worth it.

回头看，年轻的Kristen当时被摄像机围着。你觉得拥有这个节目给你的人生带来了哪些好处？然后现在回头看，最负面的部分是什么？

When you look back, young Kristen is like in that moment, cameras around. What were the perks of having this show in your life? And then what was like the most negative part that you look back on now with perspective?

好处嘛，就是很好玩。高三时我可能在上课，突然接到电话，MTV说：‘今晚能飞去纽约，明天上TRL吗？’我立刻说：‘当然，绝对去！’那种事超有趣。还能去MTV音乐录影带大奖，真的很酷。

I mean the perks were, it was fun. I would get phone calls being in whatever class during senior year and MTV would be like, hey can you fly to New York tonight to be on TRL tomorrow? I'm like, yes, absolutely. That stuff is fun, You know? I mean, so there was a lot of cool things going to the MTV VMAs and all that stuff was really fun.

毕竟我还在上高中，所以也没因此订到什么顶级餐厅。但高中毕业后搬到洛杉矶，确实夜店或餐厅我从来没排过队，挺爽的。

I mean, was still in high school. So it's not like I was getting great dinner reservations and stuff. You know? But when I graduated high school and I moved up to LA, yeah, like I never waited in a line at a club or restaurant. Like that was it was fun.

真的非常非常有趣。最大的坏处，我觉得，以前主要是小报世界，那部分很烦。现在我已经不像当年那样天天上小报了，但每次做采访，他们总能把一句话断章取义做成标题骗点击，这依旧让我火大。我刚录了另一个播客，聊到约会，说到Instagram。

It was very very fun. And then the biggest downfall I'd say and well I guess, okay, more so back in the day was the tabloid world, that aspect of it. Now, I'm not so much in the tabloids like I was back in the day but what I don't like now is every time I feel like I do an interview, like what they take, they'll take nothing and turn it into headlines for click bait. And that shit really pisses me off still. Like I just did another podcast and we were talking about dating and I guess we were talking about Instagram.

我说我只注意到认证用户，因为他们会排在前面。我们当时只是开玩笑。结果现在一堆文章写‘Kristen把Instagram当约会软件’，根本不是，我根本没那意思。

And I said that I only noticed the verified ones because they go to the top. Of And we were like joking around. So now all these fucking articles are like, Kristen's using Instagram as a dating app. And it's like, no, I'm not. Not what I was saying.

对，我懂。断章取义让人都不想再开口了。

Right. No. I do. I totally get that. Like the spinning of the words and it almost makes you like not wanna do shit.

让我都不想说话了，是啊。

Makes me not wanna talk. Yeah.

我觉得你其实挺喜欢说话的。

Which I think you do love to talk though.

我知道。但感觉这几年我说得少了，因为……大家可能不知道，他们以为我喜欢被关注。其实我并不喜欢，除非是为了正面的事，比如我的公司，或者Uncle Ben James之类的。

I know. But I feel like in the last few years, I don't talk as much because I I'm not people probably don't know this about me. They probably think I love all the attention. I actually don't. Unless it's for something positive like my company, like Uncle Ben James or something.

那样的话我就觉得，行，挺好。但我真的不在乎上新闻或小报，完全不在乎。

Then I'm like, alright, that's great. But I really I don't care about being in the press or the tabloids. I really don't.

MTV给大家付心理治疗费吗？

Is MTV paying for everyone's therapy?

他们应该付。

They should be.

但并没有。他们没提供？

But no. They didn't offer?

没有。实际上，Steven在我们的播客里说他拿到过一个演讲教练。我当时想，真的吗？因为所有人里我最需要，却没给我。

No. And actually, Steven told me on our podcast that they gave him a speech coach. And I'm like, really? Because I probably needed one out of everybody and they didn't offer me that.

他们给他——等等，是他在路易斯安那那会儿？嗯。他需要演讲教练吗？

They offered him wait, back when he was in Louisiana? Yeah. Did he need a speech coach?

我不觉得。我倒需要。给我配教练就破坏他们想让我演的角色了。

I didn't think so. I did. Like, that would have gone against the character they wanted me to be.

对，要的就是粗糙边缘的狂野Kristen。你觉得第一段恋爱、第一次真爱被搬上电视，对你后来的感情有什么影响？

Right. Like rough around the edges like wild Kristen. Yeah. How do you think having your first relationship, like serious first love and relationship air on TV impacted your future relationships?

哦，我不觉得我的恋情被拍下来会影响我之后的感情。我觉得是当时被媒体曝光影响了之后的感情。说到底还是信任的问题。不幸的是，我得小心我约会的对象，因为很多男人——我发现有几种情况。

Oh. I don't think my relationship being on camera affected my future relationships. I think just being in the press then affected my future relationships. And again it goes back to that whole trust thing. Unfortunately, I've had to be careful with guys that I date because a lot of guys, well what I have found is a few different things.

他们尝到一点名气就疯了，几乎会上瘾。或者这对很多男人来说是种威胁，于是他们会变得非常嫉妒、没有安全感。所以这对我来说真的很棘手。

They get a little taste of fame and they lose their mind. They become addicted to it almost. Or it's really threatening for a lot of guys. So then they want they get really jealous and insecure about it. So that's been really tricky for me.

等等，你说他们会上瘾，那你怎么能立刻发现，比如，哦靠他变了？

Wait, when you say they get addicted, like how can you immediately tell like, oh fuck he's turned?

我得花点时间。对，你能看出来，或者我最受不了的是男人会故意留线索。你知道这个说法吧。

It takes me a second. Right. You can just tell like or what I can't fucking stand is when a guy will plant bread crumbs. You know that saying

对对对。

like Yeah yeah yeah.

在Instagram上。比如我约会过一个男的，不知道搞什么。他会来纳什维尔，然后定位打卡。我就想，为什么？你这辈子从没打过定位。

On Instagram. Like I dated a guy I don't know what the fuck. Or I dated a guy who would come to Nashville and he would like tag the location. And I'm like why? You've never tagged a location in your life.

现在为什么打？这种我真的受不了。

Why now? That shit I can't stand.

因为太刻意了，他好像希望有人能注意到，然后希望有文章写，比如，他们是不是在交往

Because it's so purposeful like he's looking to kinda be like, I hope this gets picked up by someone and I hope there's an article like, are they seeing each

你真让我恶心

You're disgusting to

我也是。

me.

你就像，我根本还不太了解你。我们想在真正开始约会前先互相了解一下，拜托你冷静点。

You're like, I don't even know you that well. We're trying to get to know each other like before we actually start dating, like chill the fuck out.

或者我注意到，如果不是关于这个男人、不是关于关注，他们就不喜欢。于是他们就会说，哦，你知道的，因为这不是关于你的。嗯哼。嗯哼。

Or what I've noticed, if if it's not about the guy, the attention, they do not like that. So then they're like, oh, you know, like, because it's not about you. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

所以你嫁给了一个有名、又处在公众视野里的人。你是怎么认识杰·卡特勒的？

So you married someone that was famous and was in the public eye. How did you meet Jay Cutler?

我当时在2009年还在拍《The Hills》，我的公关给我打电话，说杰·卡特勒想让你飞去芝加哥跟他约会。我完全不知道他是谁，老实说也没兴趣，就拒绝了。

So I well, I got a call from my publicist in 2009 when I was still filming The Hills. And he said Jay Cutler wants to fly you to Chicago and take you on a date. And I had no idea who he was. And I just wasn't interested quite honestly. So I said no.

不过我还是跟我妈说了这件事，因为一年后我去芝加哥郊区看她，我们打算跟表哥一起去看熊队的季前赛，其实是为了我朋友马特·莱纳特，他在对面球队。我妈说，杰·卡特勒不是约过你吗？我说，哦对，我都忘了。我表哥是超级熊队粉，他说我真是白痴。

I obviously told my mom about it though because a year later I was visiting my mom who lives in a suburb of Chicago. And we were going to a Bears preseason game with my cousin for actually my friend Matt Leinart who was playing on the opposing team. And my mom said, you know, didn't Jay Cutler ask you out? And I was like, oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. My cousin who was like the biggest Bears fan told me what an idiot I am.

长话短说，我拿了家属通行证，赛后去见了他，想着再也不会跟杰说话，但我表哥会高兴死。他走进来，真人比照片帅多了。两天后我们又一起出去玩，然后进展飞快，八个月就订婚了，就这么快。

So long story short, I got his family passes meet him after the game thinking I would never talk to Jay ever again. But my cousin would be over the moon about it. And he walked in and he was a lot cuter in person. And we hung out two nights later and then honestly we just moved so fast. I mean we got engaged after eight months and it just moved.

最初是什么吸引你？

What initially attracted you to him?

那时候，我记得在洛杉矶的生活让我觉得很压抑，每天出门都有无数狗仔，我受够了。我觉得洛杉矶的男人都有点娘，说实话。我想要一个能当主导者的人，因为我的生活里我总是主导，我想有一次坐在副驾驶。

So at the time, I remember my life felt very claustrophobic living in LA. I couldn't leave my house without a million paparazzi everyday and I just was over it. Every guy in LA I felt like was a little bitch to be completely honest. And I wanted someone who could like be the alpha. Because I felt like everything in my life, I was always the alpha so I wanted to be in the passenger seat for once.

杰完全符合这些条件。而且我们真的有化学反应。你不能挑你喜欢谁，你懂我意思吧？我们就是有那种火花。

Jay checked all of those boxes. And honestly, we just had chemistry. Like you can't pick and choose who you like. Like you know what I'm saying? And so we just had that spark.

所以，在我当时的人生阶段，他就是我的完美人选。

And yeah, so with where I was at at the time in my life, he was perfect for me.

我想聊聊和运动员约会以及嫁给运动员这件事，因为我约会过——我原本想说几个。我约会过很多运动员。好吗？大家都知道我约会过很多运动员，有过认真的恋情、露水情缘，随便怎么说。他们是一种很有趣的生物。

I wanted to discuss dating an athlete and marrying an athlete because I've dated I was gonna say a few. I've dated a lot of athletes. Okay? Everyone knows I've dated a lot of athletes, had serious relationships, flings, whatever. And they're an interesting breed.

嗯。Jay是你第一个约会过的职业运动员吗？

Yeah. Was Jay your first professional athlete that you dated?

我手里已经有过几个了

I have a few under my belt as

你其实早就有点懂这个圈子了。对，当你已经“有过几个”的时候，你就有点了解——我懂那个世界。

you kinda already knew kind of the game. Yeah. You know, helps when you have them under your belt because you kinda know I get that world.

太懂了。所以

So well. So

太懂了。你就像

well. You have like

整套战术手册都准备好了。

the whole playbook ready to go.

搞音乐的简直疯了。我再也不碰了，但运动员，我还能混那个圈子。

Like musicians fucking insane. I won't go near another one, but athletes, I could do that world.

哦，他们全都

Oh, they're all the

他妈的能搞定

fucking can do

我睡觉都能搞定那破事。

that shit in my sleep.

确实。在你看来，和职业运动员约会都有哪些好处？

Absolutely. What were some of the perks of dating a pro athlete in your mind?

嗯，芝加哥，他可是个大人物，所以就像以前总是我得自己订晚餐位子，现在Jay能他妈搞定。就是些小破事，但当时挺重要。嗯嗯。和他在一起，生活就是轻松又好玩。完全没错。

Well, Chicago, I mean, he was a huge deal, And you so it was like instead of me always having to get a dinner reservation, like Jay could fucking do it. Like dumb shit like that though, but it mattered at the time. Mhmm. Life was just, it was easy and fun with him. Totally.

你懂吧？

You know?

你和其他球员的妻子相处得来吗？

Did you fit in with the other players' wives?

嗯，处得来。你处得来？我处得来。

Yeah. I did. You did? I did.

我就不太行，因为她们老想让我去参加午餐会或者——

See, I didn't as well because they would want me to go to a luncheon or like It

那种破事一堆，我又不是——

was lot of that shit, which I wasn't a

我受不了。

fan I couldn't do.

对。但怎么说呢，我们相处得还行。你跟大家处得不错。

No. But like, yeah, we all got along. You got along.

是啊。但也许你没怎么参加那些午餐会，和那些……不。

Yeah. But maybe you weren't like out all the luncheons with like the No.

我觉得直到我在熊队的最后一个赛季，我才第一次参加他们的午餐会。当时就觉得，好吧。他们老是邀请我

Don't think I went to a Bears luncheon until like my last season there with them. Was like, alright. They would always ask

邀请我，我就说，女士们，我得去上班。是啊。他们会说，可我们周三中午有午餐会啊。是啊。

me and I'd like, ladies, I gotta go to work. Yeah. They'd be like, but we have a luncheon at noon on Wednesday. Yeah.

你就说，抱歉。

You're like, I'm sorry.

抱歉。不行。

Sorry. No.

不过她们人很好。

But they are sweet.

她们确实很好。

They are sweet.

你得喜欢她们。

You gotta love.

我发现她们大多数人从18岁起就在一起了。

What I found was most of them had been together since they were like 18.

很多人都是这样。是啊。我想我能理解。我觉得这挺酷的，因为你们之间有一种不同的关系，很多人努力跟那些在他们成名前就认识他们的人保持联系。对。

So many of them. Yeah. And I guess I get it. And I think that's where maybe it was cool because you had a different dynamic where like a lot of them try to stay with the people that knew them before they got big. Right.

你和Jay之间有一种不同的互动，因为你们俩本身都很出色，所以可以有一种“我们各自有各自的事业”的默契。这说得通。和一个以打球为职业的人结婚，最困难的地方是什么？

And you and Jay had a different dynamic because you both were big in your own right. So there could kind of be this just mutual like, we both have our own things going on. That makes sense. What were some of the hardest aspects of being married to someone whose job is to play football?

嗯，我喜欢那种自己有事忙的人，所以这点很棒。但我觉得最难的是每周看着他被人揍得鼻青脸肿。橄榄球真的很残酷，尤其在我们有了孩子之后，这种感觉就更强烈了，一切都变得更严肃了。

Well, I mean, I love someone who has their own shit going on. So that was great. But I think the hardest part was watching him get the shit beat out of him week after week. You know, football's a really tough sport and so that was difficult especially after we had kids too. You know, then things just become even more serious.

但除此之外，我很喜欢他的赛程，喜欢他出差，喜欢他出门——拜托你快去忙你的吧，

But other than that, loved the schedule, loved him traveling, loved him going like, I please go do you,

你知道吗？嗯，我也觉得橄榄球的赛程算是比较好的了。

you know? Yeah. I also feel like football is like one of the better schedules.

一点也不差。

It's not bad at all.

棒球的话，就像——我基本见不到你人了。

Baseball, it's like I'll see you never.

拜拜。所以他们在每个城市都有女朋友。

Bye. Also, that's why they have girlfriends in every city.

每个城市都有。他们总把那叫“客场肉”，我就想说，拜托，你们干嘛当着我面说这些？我男朋友的朋友还会说，“明尼苏达的客场肉”什么的。

Every single city. They would always call it like road beef. And I was like, excuse me, why are you saying this in front of me? And my boyfriend's friends would all be like, a road beef in like Minnesota.

我约会过一个棒球选手，情人节那天他居然同时给我和我一个朋友都送了花。那是很久以前的事了。但我当时就想，哦。

I dated a baseball player who actually sent flowers to me and one of my friends on Valentine's Day. I mean, is so long ago. But yeah. I was like, oh.

他们简直毫无羞耻心。完全没有

Like, they have no shame. No

羞耻。没有羞耻。他们就像，什么？没有。

shame. No shame. They're like, what? No.

真的，他完全告诉我他在旧金山有个女朋友。就像，我是说，哦，对。我当时想，哦，好吧。嘿，这种诚实倒是有点意思。

Literally and totally told me he had a girlfriend up in San Francisco. Like, I mean, oh, yeah. I was like, oh, okay. Well Hey, there's something about the honesty.

等等。他们就像，但她是我在那个城市里的女朋友。

Well Wait. They're like but like, she's my girlfriend in that city.

对。你人在这儿。那又怎样？为什么不呢？

Yeah. You're You're here. What? Why not?

你有没有担心过Jay在客场时的行为，当他

Did you ever worry about Jay's behavior on the road when he

不在的时候？没有。我不担心。所以橄榄球其实是个好运动，因为他们只离开一晚。前一晚还有宵禁。

was gone? No. I didn't. And that's why football is actually a good sport because they're gone for one night. They have curfew the night before.

比赛前一晚。比赛一结束，他们立刻上飞机回家。

It's the night before a game. As soon as the game's over, they get right on a plane and come home.

没有空间。

There's no room.

没有空间搞那种行为。确实。他们以前会，以后也会。但那时候我没有理由怀疑。那

There's no room for that behavior. Do. And they have and they will continue to. But at the time, I didn't have any reason to suspect. How did

你们的婚姻在Jay退役后有什么变化？

the dynamic of your marriage change once Jay retired?

其实我当时并没有真正意识到。我们一开始就很随意，所以情况并没有好转。他只是更频繁地出现在我身边。

I mean, actually kind of didn't. And we started very cavaliery right away. And so it kind of it didn't. He was just around a lot more.

好的。所以你们开始花更多时间在一起？

Okay. So you guys were getting to spend more time?

多得多。对。

A lot more time. Yeah.

最初订婚时，你们推迟了婚礼。你说其中一个原因是你不想当全职太太。是什么让你觉得一旦结婚就必须待在家里？

Initially, when you got engaged, you postponed the wedding. You said one of the reasons was you didn't wanna be a stay at home wife. What made you think that you would have to be staying at home if you got married?

其实远不止这些。我想我当时那么说只是为了找个理由赶紧翻篇。嗯。但基本上我取消婚约的原因和后来离婚的原因一样，应该说同一套原因。

I mean, was so much bigger than that though. I think I probably said that at the time to like say something and move on. Mhmm. But basically I ended the or I called off the engagement the same reason I got a divorce. Same reasons I should say.

所以如果要总结点什么，那就是：别忽视红旗。人是不会变的。你得相信直觉。我23岁认识杰，那时候还是个孩子，当时觉得结婚生娃是人生的自然下一步。

And so I guess if there's any takeaway from that is you can't ignore red flags. People don't change. And you got to trust your gut. I was 23 when I met Jay. You know, I was a baby and at the time in my life, getting married and having kids was the next natural step.

该体验的都体验过了，我一点也不后悔。我真的很感激我们一起度过的时光。但现在我谈恋爱完全不同了，老远就能发现问题，现在直接：不行，我绝不忍受。因为你知道我现在怎么想？

I'd gotten everything out of my system and I don't regret anything at all. And I really am thankful for our time together. But yeah, I just think, know, now I'm so different dating. I see shit a mile away and now it's like, nope, I'm actually not gonna put up with that. Because you know what it is now for me?

这反而让我瞬间下头。以前会想：哦，也许他会改，也许我们能拯救他。现在直接：不，不，不。

It's a huge turn off Instead of being like, oh, well, you know, maybe he'll change. Maybe we could fix him. It's like, no. No. No.

不。再见。完全没空再折腾。

No. Goodbye. Totally. I don't have time for that anymore.

你说你们离婚不是因为不爱了，而是因为你无法继续待在

You say it wasn't because of loss of love that you guys got divorced, but because you couldn't be in

一段有毒的关系。它哪里有毒？我只有一点顾虑。因为我跟他有三个孩子，我说话非常小心。要是咱俩面前没麦克风，我他妈早告诉你了。

a toxic relationship anymore. What was toxic about it? So here's my only thing. Because I have three kids with him, I'm very careful about what I say. If you and I didn't have microphones in front of us, I'd fucking tell you.

但你知道，那是他们的爸爸，我老大现在会谷歌我们了。我只想特别小心。我妈从小到大从没说过我爸坏话，我很敬佩这一点，我也想成为那样的妈妈。就算我什么都不说，头条也会写我他妈怎么损他们。所以我就想，嗯，它是有毒的。

But you know, that's their dad and my oldest Googles us now. And I just wanna be very careful. My mom never said anything bad about my dad growing up and I really respected that and I wanna be that kind of mom. And even if I don't say anything, the headlines will say I fucking trashed them somehow. So I just you know, it was toxic.

就句号，故事结束。我只需要说这么多。

Think period end of story. That's all I kinda need to say.

你的家人和朋友什么时候意识到的？一直都知道。他们确实。哦，好吧。我的意思是我知道有时候你会想掩饰，因为我

When did your family and friends realize? Forever. They did. Oh, okay. Mean because I know sometimes you can like try to hide it because I

其实，是的。好吧，我我有点瞒着一些朋友。我妈每一步都知道，我最好的朋友斯蒂芬妮在芝加哥也知道。但像贾斯汀，我最好的朋友，他搬到纳什维尔后才亲眼看到，那时候才意识到。

Actually, yeah. Okay. I I kind of hid it from some of my friends. My mom knew every step of the way and my best friend Stephanie, who's in Chicago. But like Justin, my best friend, he didn't realize it until he moved to Nashville and then he saw it firsthand.

当你开始跟朋友或家人隐瞒事情时，这对你自己也是一个红灯。完全同意。你为什么不告诉朋友？

When you get to a place where you are trying to hide stuff from your friends or your family, that's also a red flag for yourself. Totally. Why aren't you telling your friends?

太对了。

It's so true.

然后就像想逃出来，可一旦你自己陷得那么深，反而更难

And then it's like to get out and then it's almost harder once that you're so deep in it by yourself

嗯。

Mhmm.

那再试图——你

That then to try You're to

一个独行侠，只是

a lone ranger just on

你自己的小岛上。然后你会想，我该怎么告诉我的朋友，因为我已经假装了这么久？嗯嗯。但你说你的家人知道。所以你并不是完全孤单的。

your own island. And then you're like, how do I even tell my friends because I've been faking this for so long? Mhmm. But you're you're saying your family knew. So you weren't fully alone.

是啊。我妈妈知道。我妈妈知道。你知道，因为我妈妈和我爸爸也经历过类似的事情，她其实是最适合陪伴我的人。她理解我正在经历的一切。

Yeah. My mom knew. My mom knew. And you know, because my mom went through some similar stuff with my dad, she was actually the perfect person for me to have. She understood what I was going through.

所以这很好。我也觉得，如果你和你爸爸有问题，尤其是对女孩来说，在你结婚之前一定要把那些破事处理好。否则，我们

And so that was good. I also think it's really important if you do have issues with your dad, obviously for girls especially, to work through that shit before you get married. Because otherwise, we

最终会嫁给我们的爸爸。当你以为你和你的家庭甚至没有任何问题的时候，是的。你的父母，那些破事，如果你不处理，你马上就会重蹈覆辙。完全正确。是啊。

end up with our dad. When you think you have any fucking issues with just even like your family Yeah. Your parents, that shit, if you don't work on that, you're about to turn right around and do the same fucking shit. Exactly. Yeah.

所以这过程可能有点吓人，但你必须挺过去，否则你就会嫁给你的父亲。完全正确。当你和某人分手时

And so it can be a little bit of like a daunting process, but you have to work through it or you're gonna marry your father. Exactly. When you are breaking up with someone

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

这真的很糟糕。是啊。即使你

It fucking sucks. Yeah. Even if you

不管你在哪一边

No matter what side you're

都一样。

on.

没关系

No matter

哪一方。

what side.

更糟糕的是，尤其是在社交媒体上，你很难看到对方开始新生活。嗯。如果你还看到或者当他跟别人出去时，这让你有什么感觉？

And what is worse, especially with social media, is like, it's hard to see someone move on. Yeah. How did it make you feel or does it make you feel like if you still see or when if he's out with other people?

我希望他找到另一半。嗯。我真的希望。我是说，我希望他幸福。我的孩子也会因此受益。

I hope that he finds someone. Yeah. I really do. I mean, I want him happy. My kids benefit from that.

我希望他再婚。我，我是说，我真的希望。显然，第一次听说时，心里还是有点刺痛。嗯。嗯。

I hope that he gets remarried. I I mean, I really do. Obviously, the first time I heard about it, it stung a little. Yeah. Yeah.

任何人都会这样，对吧？但是完全理解。我几乎跟所有前任都是朋友。我，我觉得这是件好事。我真的很珍惜和每个人共度的时光。

That's anybody, you know? But Totally. And I'm friends with almost all of my exes. And I I I think that that's a good thing. Like I really value the time I've had with everybody.

我从每段感情里都学到了东西。我真的希望所有前任都幸福，都拥有一段美好的关系。为了

I've learned from every relationship I've had. And I really want all of my exes to be happy and be in a great relationship. For

给年轻女孩听，结束一段关系真的他妈的难，尤其当你有孩子，你们之间有深厚纽带，因为你们共同创造的生活、共同建立的世界里还有爱。但当你知道这对你不对时，你是如何在心理上正式结束它的？因为这，嗯。

young women listening, it's fucking hard to end something that especially I'm sure when you have children, you have deep ties with someone, there is love there because what you've created, the world you've created with this person. But when you know something's not right for you, how did you mentally work through ending it officially? Because that Yeah.

很可怕。很难。真的很可怕。我是说，说实话，我花了好几年才真正下定决心。

It's scary. It's hard. It's really scary. I mean, took me a few years to actually pull the trigger, to be honest.

对你来说，只是时间到了，还是终于发生了某件事让你决定，好，现在我要行动了？

For you, was it just time or were you finally like, okay, something happened like now I'm gonna do it?

不是。更多只是时候到了。最后其实没发生什么大事，你知道的。就是时候到了。我记得我总是问我妈，那我怎么会知道呢？

No. It was more just time. It was like nothing major happened at the end, you know. It was just time. And I remember always asking my mom like, well, how am I gonna know?

她会说，你就是会知道。我确实知道了。我就是有点感觉到了。你知道，这是最可怕的事，也是最伤心的事。

And she would be like, you'll just know. And I did. I just kinda knew. And you know, it's the scariest thing. It's also the saddest thing.

我是说，情绪太多了，但也可能是最好的事，你知道。我真的觉得没有什么好事是轻而易举的，生活中任何事都一样。所以你也别冲动做决定。我觉得这就是为什么要坚持下去。我也见过一些情侣一起熬过了难关，最后走出来了，你知道的。

I mean, it's so many emotions but it can also be the best thing, you know. And so I really don't think anything good comes easy, really, like with anything in life. And so but also you don't wanna like just make an impulsive decision either. And I think that's why it's important to ride it out. I've also seen couples that have worked through shit and come out on the other side, you know.

所以我是说，我觉得在任何一段关系里，你都得搞清楚什么对你来说是底线。什么对你重要，什么不重要。我真的很不开心。那就是最根本的问题。我那段关系并不健康。

So I mean, you I think with any relationship, you just have to realize what are deal breakers for you. What's important to you and what's not. And I was really unhappy. I mean, that was the bottom line. And I was in an unhealthy relationship.

所以对我来说，这不值得。而且，我不想让我的孩子们觉得那是正常的。你知道，我希望他们看到我开心，看到我最终——不是现在，但最终——和一个真正尊重我、用我需要的方式对待我的人在一起。

And so that to me is not worth it. Also, I didn't want my kids thinking that was normal. And you know, I wanted them to see me happy and see me eventually, not right now, but eventually see me with someone who really respects me and treats me the way I need to be treated.

好吧。你现在在和你高中时的前男友一起录一个《拉古纳海滩》重看播客。我不知道我能不能坐下来跟我前男友说，咱们……而且还得重看。我知道。感觉就是，我靠。

Okay. You are now recording a Laguna Beach rewatch podcast with your ex boyfriend in high school. I don't know if I could ever fucking sit down with my ex boyfriend and be like, let's And also the fact that you have to rewatch it. I know. It's like, holy fuck.

你觉得你还会再跟史蒂文上床吗？

Do you see yourself ever hooking up with Steven again?

不会。大概两年前我跟他吃了顿饭，我们亲了一下，挺有趣的。我是说，我们喝了几杯，然后我们就……

No. I went to dinner with him almost two years ago and we kissed, which was fun. I mean, we had had a couple drinks and yeah, we were

对，就是……

yeah, was just

挺好玩儿的，你知道吧？对。而且我当时其实在跟别人约会，你知道？我只是在弥补失去的时间。所以我觉得问题就在于，我当时在跟别人交往，结果就没发展成什么。

fun, you know? Right. And then I was actually dating someone at the time, you know? I'm just making up for lost time. And so I think that was kind of what the issue was, was that I was dating someone else and it just kind of just didn't turn into anything.

你觉得你们之间还有可能吗？因为大家都知道初恋的事。你觉得你们会再试着在一起吗？

Do you feel like you guys are like because you know how everyone's like your first love. Yeah. Do you think there's any way you would explore it again?

不会。我真的，一旦我和某人结束，就像灯被关掉一样，我回不去了。

No. I really once I'm done with someone, It's I'm like a light switch flips and I can't go back.

你们有没有那种时刻？我真的觉得这像是我高中会思考的问题。就是，你们有没有那种在一起的时候，会一起退化回高中时期的自己？因为你们真的了解成年后的彼此吗？

Are you guys having that moment? I actually feel like this is something I would think about in high school. It's like, are you guys having any of those moments where together you kind of regress back to the high school version of yourself together? Because you do you even know adult versions of each other?

我们一直有保持联系。在我结婚之前我们也会偶尔见面。我觉得如果两年前我们没有去吃那顿晚餐，我不知道这个播客会不会——当然我们还是会很有默契，但那顿饭让我安心了，因为我觉得，我知道我们还是可以互相打趣、一起玩，所以那挺好的。

Well, we've kept in touch. And we would hang out a little bit before I got married and stuff. And I think had we not gone to dinner almost two years ago, I don't know that the podcast would don't know that we would have well, sure we would have had the same chemistry, but it put me at ease because I was like, I know that we still can banter back and forth, have fun together, so that was a good thing.

你得带我们回顾一下你最近的一次约会。

You need to take us through the last date you went on.

好啊。

Okay.

你们去了哪儿？你喜欢那个人吗？Kristen，给我们爆料。

Where did you go? Did you like the person? Kristen, give us the tea.

这其实是个不错的故事。

This is a good story actually.

好啊，说来听听。

Okay. Tell us.

开始了。我讨厌演员，真的，我一直都知道。我二十出头的时候跟几个演员约会过，我当时就觉得，他们最差劲了。但有个演员约我出去。

Here we go. I hate actors, know. I've always known that. Like in my early twenties, I went out with a few and I was like, they're the worst. But an actor asked me out.

我当时想，好吧。这是在洛杉矶，大概是两个月前。去了Laurel Hardware。天啊，希望他别听到这个。

I was like, alright. So this was in LA. This was probably like two months ago. And went to Laurel Hardware. God, hope he doesn't hear this.

没事，没关系。

It's okay. That's fine.

我也在那儿约过会。我们就假装那是我，而不是你。是谁？我们不知道。继续讲。

I've gone on dates there too. Let's just pretend it was me there, but you there. Who was it? We don't know. Keep going.

所以那是一个

So That's a

喝酒的好地方。

good place for drinks.

于是他猛灌酒，真的猛灌。然后有一刻他告诉我他自己做特技。我们坐在吧台，知道吗？人挤爆了。

So he was slamming drinks. Like slamming drinks. And then at one point he was telling me he does his own stunts. We were sitting at the bar, okay? It's fucking packed.

他站起来重演他做过的一个特技，不小心撞到服务员，还说“哦，对不起”。我当时想，拜托你坐下，别在Laurel Hardware中间搞这么大动静。

He gets up to reenact a stunt that he had done. Accidentally runs into the waiter and is like, oh, I'm so sorry. I was like, please sit the fuck down. I can't just creating all this commotion in the middle of Laurel Hardware.

我瞬间下头。他真的想表演特技？

I am so turned off. You did he tried to do a stunt?

在一家爆满的餐厅中间重演特技，我当时只想说，拜托坐下。

Reenacting a stunt in the middle of a packed restaurant. I was like, please sit down.

而且，这也太引人注意了。

Also, like, just drawing so much attention.

这就是为什么

That's why

我当时想，天哪。

I'm like, oh my god.

还有，你为什么要在Laurel Hardware里做特技？

Also, why are you doing a stunt in Laurel Hardware?

给我坐下。

Sit the fuck down.

确认一下，给不在洛杉矶的人说明，那是一家爆满的酒吧，不是五金店。

And to confirm anyone that's not from LA, that is a packed bar. It is not a hardware store.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

太棒了。那之后你跟他说话了吗？

It was awesome. So then did you talk to him afterwards?

他给我发了几次短信。我不能直接玩消失，对吧。但我只回他一个字。

He's texted me a couple times. And I can't be I can't just like ghost someone. Right. But I give him like a one word response.

我甚至不知道我们

I don't even know that we're

是不是在认真交往。真的。

in a serious relationship. Literally.

好吧。所以你就有点像，我懂了。等等，你为什么觉得不能玩消失？

Okay. So you're just kind of like, I get that. Wait. Why do you think you can't ghost someone?

我太他妈善良了，别人根本看不出来。我就是太好说话。

I'm too fucking nice, which people would not know about me. I'm too nice.

真的假的？

Really?

真的。我也不想被人突然消失。我反而希望对方直接说：嘿，你很棒，但我没感觉。完全OK。

Yeah. I wouldn't wanna be ghosted either. I would actually appreciate someone just being like, hey, you know what? You're great, but like didn't feel any chemistry. Totally.

我就跟另一个男生这么说过。我说我没感觉。结果他朋友笑了我好几周。我心想，我明明很成熟，不想浪费大家时间。

Which I said that to another guy. Was like, I didn't feel any chemistry. And his friends were making fun of me for weeks about it. I'm like, I actually thought I was being like mature, not wasting anyone's time.

我喜欢这样。他们还能说啥

I love that. What can they say to

对吧。他删了我号码，还跟他所有朋友讲，大家一起笑我。我说，行，谢谢你验证了我的

that? Exactly. You can't He deleted my number and told all of his friends and everyone was making fun of me. I'm like, okay. Well, that's thank you for validating Right.

为啥我他妈不喜欢你。

Why the fuck I don't like you.

对啊，而且我是个成年人，抱歉你接受不了这该死的真相。

Right. And like, I'm an adult and like, sorry you couldn't take the fucking truth.

我心说，我不想浪费任何人时间。咱们要是

I'm like, I'm trying not to waste anyone's time. Like, let's If move

你在约会时过得并不开心，因为我觉得这就是我，我在想会不会也是你，他们不会知道其实我并不开心

you are not having a good time on a date, because I feel like this is me and I'm wondering if it would be you, they won't know that I'm not having a

好，我知道。

good I know.

我会拼命讨好别人，笑得很大声，然后他会以为我们相处得很好，觉得我很开心，但其实我根本不想再跟他说话。你约会时如果对对方没感觉，会给出信号吗？

I'm gonna like people please it up and be like laughing and then he's gonna think we're leaving and I'm having the best time and I'm not gonna wanna talk to him. Can are you do you give signs on a date if you're not into it?

我知道，因为我也一样。我会他妈的去参加派对，

I know because it's same thing. Like I'll fucking show up to the party,

你知道吗？

you know?

但我现在做法是，我不去晚餐约会。我会先喝一杯。结果通常还是变成吃晚餐，因为我又他妈的太善良了。但

But what I've been doing is I won't go on dinner dates. I will get a drink. They usually turn into dinner because again, I'm too fucking nice. But

就像我记不起来。那个男的

like Like I can't this remember. Guy

跟那个表演特技的家伙吃了晚餐。我心想，我在干嘛？

who was acting out stunts got dinner with him. I'm like, what am I doing?

兄弟，我们点意大利饺子吧。

Dude, let's get the ravioli.

兄弟，我得回家了。靠。

Dude, I gotta go home. Fuck.

太棒了。

Great thing.

所以因为我知道我得想个更好的计划。嗯。嗯。哦，我明天一早还有事，你知道的。对。

So because I know because I need to come up with a better game plan. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I have an early morning, you know. Right.

其实，这又是一个搞笑的故事。我差点想说跟谁一起的。求你了。我二十出头的时候。

Actually, this is another funny story. I almost wanna say who it was with. Please. In my early twenties.

好。你得在《Call Her Daddy》上说。来吧。

Okay. You have to on caller daddy. Come on.

行，我说。别说出去。

Alright. I'll say it. Don't say it.

这在你

It's in your

二十出头。这在我妈的清单上。这就要说了。好。我来说

early 20s. It's in my mom's list. This is going to say it. All right. I'll tell

这个故事。所以我跟一个男的约会。那是我二十出头的时候，正是我派对生涯的巅峰。

you the story. So I went on a date with a guy. This is my early 20s. Kind of my partying career.

好。

Okay.

他是纯素主义者，而且戒酒。我当时想，二选一吧，对吧？选一个。选一个。

He was vegan and he was sober. And I was like, one or the other. Right? Pick one. Pick one.