米莎·巴顿：《橘子郡男孩》前后的生活（怀旧特辑）

你，

You,

我记得你曾提到过，你团队中有人开始给你开处方药。

I think, had said at one point, you're some someone on your team around you started to give you like prescription drugs.

那是什么时候开始的？

When did that start happening?

还有，那是怎么发生的？

And like, how did how did that happen?

这种情况甚至持续到《橘子郡男孩》快结束的时候。

It was happening even towards the end of the OC.

你团队里有人开始给你开处方药。

Someone on your team around you started to give you like prescription drugs.

这种情况是从什么时候开始的？

When did that start happening?

还有，这到底是怎么发生的？

And like, how did how did that happen?

这种情况甚至持续到OC（节目）结束的时候。

It was happening even towards the end of the OC.

就像合同里规定我必须有个清醒教练跟着我，于是我就被24小时监视着，但在那时候开处方药比如赞安诺之类的还是很普遍的，你知道的，就是随便找个理由。

Like it was put into the contract that I had to have a sober coach with me, and so then, like, I was being watched twenty four seven, but, like, it was still very popular in those days, like, to still be prescribing, like, Xanax and things for, you know, like whatever.

如果你压力很大，他们就会说这是你需要的，能帮你熬过去。

Like if you were under a lot of duress or stress, they'd be like, this is what you need to do to like, kinda get through it.

而且每时每刻都有人告诉你该做什么，事无巨细地被管控着。

And it was just being constantly told what to do by people every second and micromanaged in every single way.

我觉得这种情况并没有让我感到不堪重负。

I think that that just became, I don't think it did become overwhelming for me.

而且从来没有真正意义上的休息。

And it wasn't like there never really was a proper break.

从来没有那样的时刻。

There was never really a moment.

我记得回家时，他们显得非常担心。

And I remember coming back home, like they were very concerned.

我走进家门，发现大概有10个穿西装的人围坐着跟我说话。

Like I walked into my house and there was like, you know, like 10 guys in suits all sitting around like talking to me.

我当时就想，这是什么情况？

I was like, what is this?

然后他们说，你两周后就得去完成一个项目，你准备好了吗？

And they were like, well you have to go do a project in like two weeks, like are you gonna be ready?

所以事情就这样开始不断堆积起来了。

So it just kind of all started compounding.

就像你说的，那些穿西装的人在那里

Like you're saying the men in suits were there to like

就是来自四面八方的人，比如经纪公司、制片人，他们真的很想知道我会表演和做，对吧。

It was just people from like all over, like the agency, like producers, like the people really wanted to know that I was gonna be performing and and doing, like Right.

他们期望我遵守的日程安排。

The schedule that they expected me to stick to.

而且，我的意思是，我不认为现在对演员还能那样要求。

And and, like, I mean, I don't think that would even like, I don't think you could really do that with actors now.

比如现在，如果你对别人说'我状态不好'，有些触发词能让他们立刻回应'好吧，我们需要让这个人静一静，她需要休息几天，或者需要独处时间'。

Like, now if you say to somebody, like, I'm not doing well, there are trigger words that you can like, where they're like, okay, well we have to leave this person alone, she needs a few days off, or she needs some time to herself.

但那时候可不是这样。

That wasn't the case then.

我也听过其他演员谈论类似经历——当你扛起整部剧时压力巨大，所有人的工作都指望你，这种处境下...

And I've listened to other actors talk about that too, where they were kind of like, I mean it's a big deal when you're helming a whole show, and everybody's jobs are relying on you, and situations like that.

从心理健康角度这是个有趣的观点，当时根本没人像现在这样开展这类对话。

That's an interesting point like mental health wise, like no one was having conversations the way that they were now.

因为我满脑子都在想：会有人问你'米莎，你还好吗'吗？

So like, because all I'm thinking about is anyone like asking you like, Misha, are you okay?

比如'你需要休息吗'？

Like, do you need a break?

但当时所有人只会问'明天怎么才能把你弄出门工作'

And instead everyone's like, how are we gonna get you out the door the next day?

甚至直接说'把这药吃了'

Like, take this pill.

比如，大家都在这里。

Like, everybody's here.

比如，我们需要你帮我们赚钱。

Like, we need to you're making us all money.

所以咱们赶紧开工吧。

So let's go out the door.

在采访开头就提到，这对一个从事这行多年的年轻女孩来说，是很大的责任和压力。

That's a lot of responsibility and a lot of weight to put on a young girl that's been doing this for so long, the beginning of this interview.

我当时就想，你10岁就拍了第一部电影。

I'm like, you're 10 when you get your first movie.

你和你妈妈的关系。

Your mom, your relationship with your mother.

你曾经解雇过她当你的经纪人。

At one point, you did fire her as your manager.

当时是什么情况导致了这样的决定？

Like, what was the dynamic that led to that?

后来你们是如何修复关系的？

And then how did you get back to a relationship?

那种关系就是不健康。

It just wasn't healthy.

我的意思是，直到现在我也... 在我的人生中，我真正学会了优先考虑自己选择的家人，那些真正陪伴过我的人。

And I mean, it's still like, know, I've just, in my life, I've really learned to prioritize like my chosen family, and like the people who have really actually been there for me.

我不再依赖任何特定的家庭成员了。

I don't rely on any one particular family member anymore.

为了自己的幸福，我意识到那些关系——说实话，是生活中最具毒性的。

I've learned that for my own happiness, those relationships, I think in life, to be honest, are most toxic.

因为你会觉得既然有血缘关系，就可以对对方为所欲为。

Because you feel like you can say or do whatever you want to somebody because you're related.

我发现这些关系对我来说最难处理... 所以现在我完全独立，一切都为自己而做。

I've found that those have been the hardest for me to So really I mean, I'm completely independent now and I do everything for me.

这让我走向清醒与快乐，但不得不目睹其他人崩溃的过程确实很难受。

And it's led to my sobriety and happiness and I've had to watch other people crumble and it's been hard to watch.

但我很感激能在生命中遇到那些始终如一支持我、陪伴我的人。

But I'm just grateful that I've been able to kind of find the people in my life who have been there for me consistently and consistently shown up for me.

正是这些关系让我走到今天——健康、清醒且快乐。

And so that's led to where I am now, which is healthy and sober and happy.

遗憾的是，在这个过程中我不得不失去许多家人。

Unfortunately, I've had to lose a lot of family members along the way.

这个行业里有很多人都明白这种情况很普遍。

There are people in this industry who understand that there are a lot of people.

虽然不幸，但有时这就是现实世界的真相。

It's unfortunate, but it's sometimes like the reality of I the world is

不过这个观点很好，我在节目里也讨论过——家庭这个词完全取决于你如何定义，不一定非要血缘关系，你可以组建自己的家庭。而原生家庭并不代表什么。

think it's a good point though, and I think I've talked about that on my show before, family, the word family is so just by the way that you define it, like it doesn't have to be blood and you can make your own family and like the family that you're born into, it doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything.

就像如果你没有得到应有的对待，就需要调整关系并重新评估。血缘并不意味着你必须委曲求全。当然我们会为某些事抗争，但当它变得如此不健康时...

It's like if you're not getting treated correctly, like then you need to adjust your relationships and you need to reevaluate and just because blood doesn't mean like, you have to stay and you have to Of course, we're gonna fight for things to a certain degree, but when it's so unhealthy Yeah.

看到网上那些家人偷钱的案例，要怎么才能重建信任继续发展关系？尤其当经历过如此心碎的事情之后。

Seeing things online of like potentially family members like stealing money from you, like how do you get to a place where you can like be in relationships moving forward and like trust people from previous things that have been like so heartbreaking and happening to you?

是啊。

Yeah.

确实经历过很多心碎时刻。

It it there has been a lot of heartbreak.

对我来说，关键是要专注于自己——虽然听起来很老套，但除非你能与自己相处、爱自己、花时间与自己共处，你才是最终要对自己负责的人，而不是别人。

I think that for me the thing that's, is I have to really concentrate on myself because it sounds cliche, but unless you yourself and love you, and can spend the time with you, you're the person you have to answer to, and nobody else.

尤其是过去这十到十五年里，我遭遇过各种被欺骗和盗窃的经历。

And I've had other people I've been stolen from and lied to in so many different ways over the course of the last ten, fifteen years especially.

直到最近这两三年，我才真正开始为此负起责任，为自己负责。

It's only in the last two, three years even maybe that I feel like I have really taken responsibility for it and for myself.

我开始明白，唯一能做的就是保持快乐、健康、清醒，坚持锻炼——这才是让生命有价值的事。

Been like, you know what, the only thing that I can do is just be happy, healthy, and sober, and working out, and that's the only thing that's really gonna make make my life worth living.

活着。

Living.

因为我有段时间曾经放弃过自己。

Because I had given up for a while there.

我当时非常...我只是感觉...我不知道怎么说。

I was very I just felt so I don't know.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这让我很情绪化，因为那时我感到非常孤独。

Makes me emotional because I felt really alone.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以我的意思是，是的，这

So I mean, yeah, it

真的就是要把某些人彻底从我的生活中剔除。

really that's has been just like cutting people out of my life, truly.

谢谢你分享这些，因为我能想象这有多艰难——你在谈论你的家人，谈论实际上被盗窃的经历。

Thank you for sharing that because I can imagine it's so hard when I'm like, you're talking about your family and you're talking about literally getting stolen from.

你会想，这感觉就像...这种事情让你怎么可能不感到孤独？

You're like, how do you like, that's something that is like you couldn't feel more How could you feel not alone?

就像你通常会求助的那些人

Like the people that you usually would turn to to be like

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，我认为在人生中，每个人都以为自己在做正确的事，也许是出于好意。

I mean, I think that, you know, I have to believe that in life, everybody does things thinking they're doing it for the right reason and maybe, like, with good intentions.

没错。

Yeah.

但有时并非总是善意，有时你无法解释人们为何那么做。

But sometimes there isn't always good intentions, and sometimes you can't really explain why people do what they do.

是啊，这确实很棘手。

And yeah, it's a tricky one.

尤其是家人，这更是个难题。

And I think family especially, it's a tricky one.

你只能尽量减少与这类人的接触，并且在未来多加小心。

And you can just minimize your contact with those kinds of people and moving forward, be careful about.

因为我长期以来一直是个非常开放、信任他人甚至有点天真的人。

Because I can tend to be a very open and trusting and kind of naive person for a long time there.

而且我在多段关系中反复遭遇被人利用的情况。

And I had it happen kind of repeatedly to me in both relationships as well, people using me.

所以我意识到，是啊，我也不清楚。

And so I realized that, yeah, I don't know.

可能有一段时间里我确实不太会看人，而且得停止为别人找借口。

Maybe I wasn't the best judge of character for a while there, and to stop stop making excuses for other people.

因为我觉得长期以来我都在找借口，就是不愿相信有人会做出那种事。

Because I think for a long time, I was making excuses because you don't wanna believe that somebody would, you know.

当然。

Of course.

米莎，我很好奇，当你独自面对那些时刻时，你是怎么坚持下来的？

I'm curious, Misha, like, when you were alone in those moments, like, how did you keep going?

因为我试着设身处地想象，最亲近的人都彻底抛弃你是什么感受。

Because I'm trying to put myself in your shoes of, like, knowing the closest people to you are kind of, like, just completely abandoning you.

毫无信任可言。

There's no trust.

你被偷窃背叛，是怎么坚持下来的？

You're getting stolen from, like, how did you keep even going?

我是说，做了很多心理治疗。

I mean, a lot of therapy.

是啊。

Yeah.

还有就是要果断断绝一些人际关系，专注自我成长，人在至暗时刻反而会迸发力量。

And a lot of just like cutting people out and working on myself, and like strength comes at the darkest times.

没错。

Yeah.

你明白吗？

You know?

我是说，我找到了自己的力量。

I mean, I've found my strength.

年轻时，我根本没想过自己能活过27岁，以为自己会成为'27岁俱乐部'的一员，就是那种活得疯狂死得早的人生。

And when I was younger, like, I didn't think I was I thought I was gonna be dead by 27, I was gonna be part of that 27 club, it was it was like live young and fast and die.

说实话，那时候我根本不在乎。

Like, you know, I was like, I I really didn't give a shit.

我太鲁莽了，对一切都感到厌倦，不想再为别人而活，不想成为那个被所有人指望赚钱、做这做那的人。

I was reckless, I was over it, I didn't really, know, wanna be doing stuff for other people anymore, I didn't wanna be like, you know, the person that everybody needed to be making the money and doing the this and the that.

但到了三十多岁，我突然意识到：见鬼，我还活着，而且比从前更强大。

And then, like, you know, I think when I got to my thirties and I was like, shit, I'm still here, I'm still going and I'm stronger than I was then.

我经历了太多，这些苦难没有击垮我，反而让我更坚强——我上过法庭，

And I've been through so much, and these experiences haven't killed me, they've made me so much stronger, and I've been to court.

为权利抗争过，为自由战斗过。当你熬过这些磨难后，整个人生观都会改变，你会明白：我是强大的。

I've fought for my rights, I've fought for my freedoms, and I've, you know, when you get past that and out on the other side, then your whole perspective on life and everything changes, because you're like, I am strong.

千真万确。

Absolutely.

我很强大。

I'm strong.

我以前总是对人们感到非常恼火，因为他们会说‘你是我认识的最坚强的人’。

And I used to get so upset with people, because they'd be like, you're strongest person I know.

过了一段时间后，这感觉真的像是一种侮辱，因为我会想‘为什么这些事总是发生在我身上？’

And that really felt like an insult after a while, because it just felt like, well why do all these things keep happening to me?

但这是真的，我是说，当你陷入绝境时，你真的会在自己身上找到那种力量，明白吗？

But it's true, I mean, you really do, when the chips are down, find that strength in yourself, you know?

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，我

I mean, I'm

真的很抱歉，因为我无法想象处于你这样的境地——几乎能意识到生命可能因为生活中的变故而走向终点。我曾经把那种摇滚式的生活方式浪漫化了，你知道，我那时已经下定决心认为自己不会...是的，我觉得自己不会有长久的未来，我根本不想也不在乎继续活下去。

so sorry because I can't imagine like, being at a place where you are almost like aware that the end could be near for yourself because of what's happening in your life, like I Well, romanticized all of that kind of like, rock and roll, just like, know, I was just like, I I had kind of made up my mind that it wasn't gonna like, yeah, that there was no real kind of longevity in it for me that I just didn't want to I didn't care to, like, keep going.

但就像我说的，我真的无法忍受生活中的不公正，尤其痛恨有人利用他人。

And then, yeah, like I said, I think just I can't stand injustices in life, and I really can't stand when people do take advantage of people.

我想这就是我真正力量的来源——就像在说‘你知道吗？’

And I think that's where the strength that's really came from is just like, you know what?

我不会接受这个，去他妈的。

I'm not gonna take this, and yeah, fuck that.

我不会袖手旁观，看着这些人胡作非为。

Like, I'm not gonna sit by and watch these people do that.

说到你人生中那段时光，当时的情况有点

Talking about that time in your life where like, it was kind

像是在美化它，就像是，去他的吧。

of like, I was romanticizing it, it was like, fuck this.

比如，2007年你曾因酒驾被捕。

Like, so in 2007, you were arrested for a DUI.

几年后，你又被关进了精神病院。

And a few years later, you were held in a psychiatric hospital.

在那些不为人知的时刻，你当时究竟经历了什么？

Behind closed doors, Like what was happening with you at that point?

嗯，酒驾这事，我确实不知道该说什么好。

Well, DUI, I mean, don't really know what to say about that.

就是这样，事情就是那样发生的。

That was just, it was what it was.

那晚我们出去狂欢，结果很愚蠢地发生了那件事。

It was just like, it was a straight up like we were out one night and yeah, that was, it was stupid.

因酒驾被捕。

Got a DUI.

精神问题是因为当时彻底崩溃了。

The psychiatric stuff, was just having a full blown breakdown.

那时候我喝醉了，有人给我下了迷奸药GHB，能活下来真是万幸。

Mean, that time it was really, I was drunk, somebody had slipped me roofies, and it was GHB, and I'm lucky to be alive.

我服药过量了，当时很多人对我做的事都让我觉得极其恶劣。

I mean I just happened to be, I overdosed, and so there was so many things that other people did to me that felt so aggressively wrong.

当时没意识到洛杉矶那些阴暗角落有多危险。

Don't think that I realized how dangerous that seedy side of LA can be.

我长期被保护得很好，当真正走出去想过正常人生活时——参加派对体验这些，结果就陷入了那种境地。

And I had been kind of really protected and sheltered for a long time, and when I kind of got out there, and I was like, I wanna live my life, I wanna be a normal person, whatever that means, parties, go do this stuff, and then it's like you end up in a situation like that.

是啊，你真的会从经历中学习，那次我彻底崩溃了。

So yeah, you really do, you live and you learn, and that was, yeah, I was, I just had a full blown breakdown from that.

当我听到你说，听别人一直说'你好坚强，你好坚强'真的很烦人。

When I heard you say like, it was so annoying hearing people say like, you're so strong, you're so strong.

你会想，为什么这些破事非得不断发生在我

You're like, but why does this all have to keep fucking happening to

身上？

me?

听别人那样说真的很难受。

It was just hard people saying that.

我是说，连我男朋友和身边所有朋友都经常这么说，但我并不觉得自己有他们看到的那么坚强。

I mean, like, you know, even like my boyfriends and all my friends around me would constantly say that, but I didn't feel as strong as I think I was coming across, you know?

嗯。

Mhmm.

我确实有那种英国式的'忍一忍就过去了'的性格，不表露情绪，尽量保持体面。

I do have this like, British thing of suck it up, just move on, don't show your feelings, try to keep a good exterior to you.

直到最近几年，我才真正从内到外感受到那种力量。

It's only in the last few years that I really feel that like from the inside out.

在很长一段时间里，我并没有像现在这样深切地感受到那种力量。

For a long time, I didn't really feel that strength to the degree that I do now.

我

I

我在想，当你说人们基本上都在占你便宜的时候。

was thinking about, like of all the when you're saying, you know, like people basically taking advantage of you.

2017年，你发现前男友在你们发生关系时偷拍了视频，还试图兜售性爱录像带。

In 2017, one of your ex boyfriends you found out had filmed you when you were having sex and was going and trying to shop the sex tape.

是的。

Yeah.

你能带我回到你发现这件事存在的那个瞬间吗？当时你经历了什么？

Can you take me back to the moment where you realized that even like existed and what you were going through?

那简直是场灾难。

It was a disaster.

那简直就是一场彻头彻尾的噩梦。

It was an absolute fucking nightmare.

但我的意思是，是的，我不愿回想那段经历。

But I mean, yeah, I don't like to go back there.

不过我可以告诉你，那确实...

But I will tell you, I mean, it was yeah.

很阴暗。

Shady.

住在一起的男生们——这本身就是危险信号。

Don't boys who live together in a house, probably red flag.

电脑太多——危险信号。

Too many computers, red flag.

现在回想起来，整件事简直处处都是危险信号。

I mean, like the whole thing was just like, in hindsight, red flags everywhere.

浴室里、客厅里...整个空间都充斥着那种感觉，持续不断。

But like, I mean, in the bathroom, in the living room, like, the whole, like, just constant, yeah.

你当时

Was You had

完全不知情？

no idea?

毫不知情。

No idea.

完全被蒙在鼓里。

Absolutely no idea.

后来有人给我看了证据，他有个朋友来警告我。

Somebody actually showed it to me, and I was like, one of his friends came to me and warned me.

我根本没想到那些事居然是真的。

And I didn't think it was possible that some of that was real.

据说他还被抓到对人说，他知道金·卡戴珊和帕丽斯·希尔顿这些人都有性爱录像，而我是少数不会...了解我的人都知道，我在性关系和隐私方面非常保守。

And it was, I mean, and apparently he was even caught saying to somebody like, he knew that Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton and all these people had had sex tapes, and that I was one of the only girls who wouldn't like, and I mean if you know me, I'm quite, I'm very private and really prudish when it comes to sexual relationships and what I share.

那时候感觉我的世界都要崩塌了。

And so that was just like, I mean, I thought my world was ending.

这简直就是任何人能对我做的最恶劣的事。

It was literally the worst thing that anybody could do to me.

我是说，忘记其他人对我做的所有事情吧，这件事对我来说就是，不，如果这个人真能这样对我，我活不下去了。

I mean, forget all the other things that people have done to me, that for me was like, no, I cannot go on if this person manages to do this to me.

所以我当时在好莱坞 [3] 在好莱坞山的朋友家，我记得，她把我叫醒，然后说，天啊，有传言说有录像带。

And so I was at a friend's house in the Hollywood Hills, I remember, and she woke me up and she was like, oh my god, there's a rumor going around that there is footage.

然后我说，什么录像带？

And I was like, of what?

那可能会是什么东西呢？

What can it possibly be?

那真是一段疯狂的经历。

That was a whole crazy experience.

我成了自己的侦探，去了洛杉矶警察局，不断联系性犯罪部门，自己对他和他的朋友进行监视，最终找到了他。

I became my own detective, and went to the LAPD, and I was constantly contacting like the sex crimes, like I did my own surveillance of him and his friends, found him, like yeah.

所以我不得不暂时变成一个彻头彻尾的义警。

So I had to turn into like a full blown vigilante there for a minute.

我很高兴我这么做了。

And did you Glad I did.

他妈的一百万个确定。

Abso fucking lutely.

当你发现Also Out时，你跟他谈过吗？

When you found Also Out, did you have a conversation with him?

你再也没跟他说过话吗？

Did you not speak to him again?

天啊，没有。

God, no.

没有。

No.

我是说，他消失了，他升级了手段，那时已经结束了。

I mean, he disappeared, he upped in mean, it was already over.

那只是两周的事。

Was just a two week thing.

所以他早就得到了他想要的。

So he'd already gotten what he wanted.

他早就消失了。

He was long gone.

我不得不追踪他和他的朋友们，是的，简直是一场噩梦。

I had to track him and his friends down, yeah, was a nightmare.

上法庭，申请所有这些限制令，持续了一年多，大概一年半的时间，旷日持久。

Going into court, getting all these restraining orders, constantly showing up for over a year, like a year and a half, over a long period of time.

如果不是有律师和其他更了解情况的女性支持我。

And if I hadn't had the support I'd had from lawyers, and from other women who were more aware of it.

而且当时没有真正的法律，就像洛杉矶警察局说的，哦，我们处理这类事情，是的，我们知道这种事经常发生。

And there was no real laws at the time, like the LAPD were like, oh we deal with stuff like, yeah, we know this stuff goes on.

但我永远不会忘记走进警察局，给他们那个我认为大部分事情发生的房子地址，他们调出了资料。然后警察把电脑转过来，问，是他吗？

But I'll never forget walking into the police station, and giving them the address of the house where I thought most of it happened, and they brought it up on the And the cop turns the computer around, and he goes, is that him?

而他实际上就在谷歌地图上，带着他的狗站在那栋公寓楼前。

And he was actually there on Google Maps in front of the apartment building with his dog.

我当时就想，当我内心的侦探本能被激发时，你根本无法想象那种感觉。

I was like, I mean, like, when I say the detective in me, like, came out You have no idea.

就像，我们去找那个混蛋算账。

Like, let's go get this motherfucker.

你根本不知道。

You have no idea.

等等。

Wait.

所以你们

So did

和这家伙约会了两年？是的。

you date this guy for two Yeah.

就像两周的短暂恋情。

It's just like a like two week fling.

这是

It's

人们脑子里想的真是令人震惊，他们居然能在那种地方看到机会，对吧？

shocking what goes through people's minds, like where they see opportunity, isn't it?

这实在太恶心了，

It's just so sick how

事情就是这样发生的。

how it happens.

所有正在经历这种事的女性听着，这不是你们的错。

Any woman listening, like if they are going through this, it is not your fault.

不是。

No.

这是违法行为，是犯罪。

It is illegal and it's a crime.

我很好奇当所有那些事情发生时，

I'm curious when of everything like that's just

经历了这么多之后，你心里有没有怨恨？

you've been through in your life, are you resentful at all?

不。

No.

不。

No.

我是说，回顾过去确实有些人让我无法忍受。

I mean, there are people that I look back on and I'm like, I definitely can't stand them.

我很高兴他们已经不在我的生活中了。

I'm glad that they're not in my life anymore.

而且我把那段时期发生的某些事情归咎于他们。

And I blame them for some of the things that kind of went on around that time period.

但不会，我觉得人生不能充满怨恨。

But no, I mean, I don't think you can be resentful in life.

我认为自己仍然保持着——至少我愿意这么想——对事物的幽默感，喜欢保持轻松心态，与选择的家人关系非常亲密。

I think I still have, I like to think, a great sense of humor about things, and like to be, I keep things very light hearted, I keep my chosen family very close.

而我选择保持联系的那些家人也非常亲近。

And the family that I do choose to speak to very close.

生活中你不能心怀怨恨。

And you can't be resentful in life.

如果你变成那样，一切就都完了。

It's all over if you're gonna get like that.

那还不如死了算了。

You may as well be dead.

有什么意义呢？

What's the point?

你不能整天坐着怨恨别人发生的事。

You can't sit around and hate people for the things that happen.

你必须学习和成长。

You have to learn and grow Yeah.

从那些情况中成熟起来，就像进化一样。

And mature from those situations and, like, evolve.

明白吗？

Know?

我的意思是，这就像一条巨大的学习曲线和成长故事。

Mean, is one big, like, learning curve and and story.

所以，你能做的就是不断学习和成长，我对此其实非常感激。

And so, like, just, all you can do is learn and grow, and I'm actually very grateful for that.

从更宏观的角度看，这一切塑造了我，毫无疑问成就了今天的我。

In the bigger picture, it's made me, it's definitely made me who I am today.

如果能对当时那个抱着‘去他妈的，我要加入27岁俱乐部’心态的自己说句话，

If you could say something to yourself when you were at that point where you had the mentality of like, fuck it, I'll be in the

你现在最想对当时的米莎说什么？

twenty seven club, what do you wish you could say to Misha now?

十年后你会坐在这张沙发上和亚历克斯·库珀聊这件事。

You're gonna be here ten years later sitting on a couch talking to Alex Cooper about it.

所以现在赶紧振作起来。

So get your shit together now.

你会活到

That you're gonna be

活着、茁壮成长、快乐又健康，一切都会

alive and thriving and happy and healthy, and it's all gonna

好起来的。

come together.

因为当你深陷其中时，你根本看不到这些，只觉得完全被压垮了。

Because you don't see it at the time when You you're in just feel so overwhelmed, Totally.

抑郁症是真实存在的，血清素和快乐情绪需要时间才能恢复平衡，你也需要时间从这些困境中走出来。

You And depression is real, and it takes a while for the serotonin and the happiness to level out, and for you to come back from these situations.

这不是一夜之间的事。但奇怪的是，某天就像有个开关突然被打开了。

It's not an overnight But then, strangely, one day, it will be kind of like a switch gets flicked.

这很神奇吧？

Is that so weird?

确实很神奇。

It is weird.

就像你现在回顾往事时那样。

It's like you look back when you're talking about it.

我人生中也有这样的时刻，当我经历某些事情时，突然有一天，你正在煮咖啡，然后意识到，

I have moments in my life too where I was going through something or whatever, and then one day, you're just making coffee, you're like,

天啊，我完全不是那个人了，因为在低谷时，我甚至看不到隧道尽头的一丝光亮。

oh my God, it all I'm not that person at all I don't know because when I was in it, didn't see, I couldn't barely even see a pinpoint of a light at the end of the tunnel.

而现在我站在这里，仿佛连隧道都不存在了。

And now here I am and it's like, I'm not even in the tunnel.

你确实不在隧道里了，亲爱的，隧道已经无影无踪了，懂吗？

You're not, bitch the tunnel is nowhere to be found, okay?

它消失了。

It gone.

它依然不在，彻底消失了。

It's still gone, it's gone.

你现在有约会对象吗？是在恋爱中还是单身？

Are you dating, are you in a relationship, are you single?

你在约会吗？

Are you dating?

你恋爱了吗？

Are you in a relationship?

你是单身吗？

Are you single?

什么？不。

What are No.

我们

We

我目前单身，而且很享受这种状态。

I'm single at the moment and I love it.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我超爱的。

I love it.

我真的完全在专注自我提升，这种感觉太他妈棒了。

I really truly have just been working on myself and I fucking love it.

这很棒。

I It's great.

我的意思是，我不需要向任何人交代，我只是觉得，你知道的，非常快乐、清醒、思路清晰，而且我可以保持健康。因为当我再次坠入爱河时，我会爱得又快又深，然后几乎会变得有些依赖那个人。

I mean, I don't have to answer to any I just like, I feel very like, you know, like happy and sober and like clear, and like I can be healthy and, because I will fall into, it'll all happen, when I fall in love again, I fall hard and fast, and then I'm kinda almost codependent with that person.

所以我希望未来，如果我对感情有什么期待的话，那就是不要那么激烈。

So I hope moving forward, if I want anything from my relationships, it's that they aren't so intense.

我

I

不过我感觉我学到的是，我们正在谈论你人生的各个不同阶段。

do feel like what I've learned though is that's also just, we're talking about all these different stages of your life.

而我对自己的一点认识是，我也有过类似的经历。

And something I learned about myself is I had a similar experience.

我当时就觉得，天啊，这些关系太沉重太紧张了。

I was like, God, these relationships are so heavy and so intense.

后来我越是自我提升，越是成为最好的自己——听起来你现在就处于这种澄明状态，就像在练普拉提、瑜伽，还保持清醒的那种酷劲儿。

And then the more I worked on myself and the more that I became the best version of myself, and it sounds like you're just in this place of clarity and you're like Pilates and yoga and sobriety bitch.

别散发出

Don't give off

那种气场，让男人觉得他们可以那样控制你。

those vibes, guys don't feel like they can control you like that.

对，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

因为你在不知不觉中，就散发出一种需要被呵护、需要以某种方式被照顾的气场，想想看。

Because you are, without even knowing it, you are giving off vibes that you need to be babied, you need to be taken care of in some way, think.

完全正确。

Totally.

虽然你表现得如此独立，但确实如此。

Though you feel like you're acting so independent, but like, yeah.

这是不同的。

It's different.

在你人生的这个新阶段，你会吸引完全不同的人，因为你也以不同的眼光看待自己。

You will attract someone completely different in this new stage of your life just because you also see yourself differently.

我是说，想想你27岁之前对自己的感觉，现在你会觉得，天啊，这完全是不同的人。

I mean, think about what you were feeling about yourself before 27, and then now you're like, oh my god, these are different people.

对啊，那个人以前根本不会考虑安定下来，不会考虑结婚生子这些事。

I mean, yeah, that person never would have considered settling down, never would have considered marriage, kids, anything.

那些事以前想都不会想，会觉得‘绝对不行’，但你知道，世事难料嘛。

Like none of that would have even been like, that have been like, oh hell no, but you know, yeah, things things change.

所以你说你觉得自己算是个浪漫的人？

So you said you kinda would consider yourself, like, you a romantic?

是啊，情人节米莎真的给我带了个可爱的小泰迪熊和一件小睡袍。

Yeah, a Valentines Misha brought me literally a nice little teddy bear, and a little robe.

毕竟你们都订婚了。

Well, you're engaged.

我当时还说‘情人节你们必须一起过’。

And I was like, oh, you have to spend Valentines.

虽然我讨厌‘闺蜜情人节’这个词，但我想‘好吧’。

It's a and I hate that word, Galentine's, but I was like, okay.

所以他们就说，这个词真的很烦人，对吧？

So they're like, it's such an annoying word, isn't it?

但不管怎样，我当时想，如果要过情人节，你就得有个泰迪熊

But anyway, I was like, if we're doing Valentine's Day, you need a teddy bear

让我说清楚

Let me be so clear.

我无法形容和你们一起过情人节我有多开心，真的，这期节目我已经知道会帮助很多女性，而且第二，我们都是米莎的粉丝，对吧？

I cannot explain to you how happy I am that I'm spending Valentine's Day with Like truly, this episode I already know is one gonna help so many women and two, like we're Misha fans over here, okay?

我们他妈的爱死你了

We fucking love you.

如果你真的重新开始约会，你会采取什么方式？你在寻找什么？

If you do start dating again, what is your approach to dating and what are you looking for?

哦，天啊

Oh, man.

我不知道

I don't know.

就是，我觉得我又...经历过那些阶段，比如特别想和音乐人约会，跟着巡演，你懂的，就是那种感觉。

Like, I think I again, with that, I went through phases where, like, I really wanted to date musicians and, like, be on tour and, you know, like Be sure.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

那些日子都过去了，现在我对乐队男生完全没兴趣，不想和玩乐队的人在一起，真的不要。

Like, those those days are over, that's not attractive to I me don't wanna be with like, the guy in a band, I don't like, no.

当然话不能说死，但基本上...我已经从那些事里走出来了，成熟了，

I mean, never say never, but it's And not really my I've kind of, you know, I've I've moved on from all of that stuff, and I've matured and

所以你以前有固定偏好类型？

So you had a type?

我确实约会过不少玩乐队的人。

I mean, I did date a lot of, like, kind of band guys.

倒不是说我有特定类型，不过...

I don't think I have a type per se, but

你当时喜欢乐队成员的哪些特质？

What was it about the band guy that you were loving?

具体是什么情况？

Like what was going on?

我不知道。

I don't know.

那时候年轻，觉得和Cold War Kids或Rooney这样的乐队一起巡演很酷。

Was just young and thought that was cool to be on tour with like the Cold War kids or Rooney and stuff like, know, Rooney.

当时玩得很开心。

Was like having a blast.

那时我才二十多岁。

I was in my twenties.

我也不知道。

I don't know.

等等，我忘了Rooney还上过那个节目。

Like it was wait, I forgot, and Rooney was on the show.

嗯，我们节目里来过很多超棒的乐队。

Mhmm, we had so many cool bands on the show.

那是个很好的方式

It was a great way

去认识各种各样的人。

To to meet meet people.

是啊。

Yeah.

好吧，所以你以前喜欢乐队男孩，但现在我们可能已经偏离这个话题了。

Okay, so you liked the band boys, but now maybe we're veering away.

是的，不，我们已经跑题了。

Yes, no, we have veered away.

我喜欢那些有上进心、有自己事业的人。

I like people who are driven and have their own stuff going on.

考虑到我生活中一直以来的独立性和进取心，这点对我来说极其重要。

It's incredibly important considering how independent and driven I've always had to be in my life, and am in my life.

我需要的是这两点：幽默感是最重要的。

I need, and that and a sense of humor are the two main things.

对你来说什么是不能妥协的？

What is a non negotiable for you?

如果你没有幽默感，不能逗我笑，如果你不好笑，那可能就不太行。

Like if you don't have a sense of humor and you can't make me laugh, like if you're not funny, then it's like no, that's not gonna work probably.

对，我需要能让我笑到不行的那种。

Right, like I need to be cracking up.

是的，我需要一个感觉像挚友的人。

Yeah, I need somebody who feels like a best friend.

因为我在想，就像我们快结束时——天啊我听起来简直像我的心理医生，我那位治疗师每到50分钟就会说'我们时间快到了'，我心想：贱人，你这是要挂电话了是吧？

Because I think also if you could talk about, because as we wind down, have a lot of I just sounded like my fucking therapist, you guys my therapist at the fifty minute mark is like, as we wind down, I'm like, bitch, that's your way of telling me it's over, You're gonna hang up on me.

恐慌。

Panic.

不过趁我们结束前，我很好奇，我们讨论的所有关于男性的主题，无论是通过治疗还是自我探索，你是如何尝试重建信任的？

But as we wind down, I'm curious, all the themes we did talk about with men, like, how have you, whether it's in therapy or just on your own journey, how have you tried to rebuild trust?

因为我觉得有太多女性给我写信说，她们觉得自己被男人严重伤害了——抱歉在场的男士们——但由于和男性有过糟糕的互动经历，很难不对他们产生恨意。

Because I feel like there's so many women that write into me of like, I just feel like I've been so fucking wronged by men and sorry to all the men in the room, but it's hard to not hate them because of the bad interactions you've had with them.

对于那些经历过的女性，你有什么建议吗？

Do you have any advice for women that have gone through?

这些年我确实变得更偏向女性友谊了，这点毋庸置疑。

I definitely become more of a girl's girl over the years, that's for sure.

但具体在恋爱关系方面呢？

But what in relationships?

比如要怎么...我是说你必须...

Like how to I like knock mean, you have to.

你就是必须...

You just have to.

我的意思是，你必须保持清醒，但不能像我们说的那样带着怨恨或敌意四处走动。

I mean, you just have to keep your wits about you, but like, you can't go around with like we said, like resenting or having a chip on your shoulder and being like that.

因为那样你也无法吸引到对的人，所以...

Because also, you won't attract like the right people in that phase either, so.

那是个

That's a

好观点。

good point.

我热爱爱情。

I love love.

我认为每个人都应该保持开放的心态。

I think everybody needs to keep an open mind.

世界上还是有好人的，尽管这期节目说了很多你们都很糟糕。

There are good people out there, even though this episode addressed You a lot of all suck.

确实有很多不太好的人...但你说得对，还是有好人的。

A lot of you not so good people but No, there are, you're right.

我觉得像这样讨论很重要，因为糟糕的情况可能真的非常非常黑暗。

And it's like, I think it's important to have conversations with like this of like the bad can be really fucking bad and really fucking dark.

但如果你坚持下去，就像你说的，你希望能告诉当时的自己：'不，婊子，你会活过27岁，情况会变好，你非常坚强'——虽然你本不该被迫那么坚强。

But if you keep pushing through it, like you said, like you wish you could tell yourself then like, no bitch, you are gonna make it past 27 and it is going to get better and you are so strong, but you shouldn't have had to be that strong.

但你依然在这里的原因是因为你如此坚强，要继续为正在经历这些的听众们奋斗。

But the reason you're still here is because you're so strong and like, keep fighting to people listening that are going through it.

就像，继续奋斗是有理由的，因为事实上大多数时候，情况真的会变好。

Like There's a reason to keep fighting because it actually, most of time, does get fucking better.

确实会的。

It does.

你觉得人们对你的最大误解是什么？

What do you think is the biggest misconception about you?

哦，我不知道。

Oh, I don't know.

我

I

说实话，我觉得很多人以为我就是玛丽莎·库珀本人。

think honestly, a lot of people think that I am Marissa Cooper.

就像，很多人会觉得我是个特别傲慢的贱人。

Like, I think a lot of people think I'm gonna be a really stuck up bitch.

比如，我确实能感受到那种氛围，人们会觉得，哦，我跟这些男人约会过，然后就会认为我肯定会很难相处，我觉得这种想法很糟糕，某种程度上这就是人们见到我时的固有印象。

Like, I do I get that vibe, like, that people think, like, oh, I've dated these guys, and that like I'm gonna be, I do think that that's a horrible, like it kinda comes with the territory of when people meet me.

他们总是说，哦你本人比电视上漂亮多了，而且你比我想象中要友善得多。

They're always like, oh you're so much prettier in person, and you're so much nicer than I thought you were gonna be.

我就想，哇，好吧，我觉得我可能不想知道你原本是怎么想的。

And I'm like, wow, okay, I don't think I wanna know what you thought.

但我觉得，这似乎已经成为某种挥之不去的污名了。

But, like, I think that seems to have been, like, the lasting stigma around things.

我觉得这就是我们之前讨论过的整个现象，你知道的，就像Marissa的剧情线和当时Misha的角色有些重叠，人们就把两者混为一谈了。

I think it's a whole thing we were talking about of, like, you know, like, the story lines of Marissa and, like, Misha at the time kind of crossing and people just, like, equating the two with each other.

我觉得这某种程度上是种有害的...是啊。

I think that's been kind of a toxic Yeah.

某种持续性的...

Kind of lasting Yeah.

就像有些人，一直困扰着

Like, that some people have stuck in

他们脑子里。

their heads.

是啊。

Yeah.

这会不会让你对这个角色产生怨恨？

Does that make you at all, like, resent the character?

不会。

No.

我依然喜欢玛丽莎这个角色。

I I still love Marissa as a character.

我觉得她是个狠角色，是个很棒的人物。

I think she's a badass bitch, and I think she was a great character.

我只是觉得，你知道，人们和他们扮演的角色是两回事，演员们...

I just think, you know, like, people are not the roles they play, and, like, actors are, like, you know, you've

嗯。

yeah.

演员并非他们所扮演的角色。

Actors are not the roles they play.

就这样。

Period.

愿上帝保佑。

God bless.

网上的各位，你们刷到那个TikTok了吗？

Everyone online, you get that TikTok?

好的。

Okay.

你希望人们从

What do you hope people take away from

这次采访中获得什么？

this interview?

希望对我来说，是女孩之间的力量与权力。

Hopefully, like for me, girl girl strength and power.

因为我觉得谈论这些事情很重要，比如你可以谈论自己的黑暗时期、抑郁或任何你经历过的困境。

Because I think talking about these things and like, you know, if you can talk about your dark times and your depression or anything that you've been through.

就像我说的，我经常戴着耳机在城市里闲逛，听你的采访。

And like, for me, like I said, I was walking around the city with my headphones and listening to your interviews.

我发现这些采访真的很有趣，而且我认为倾听其他女性的观点和她们的经历很重要。

And I do find them really interesting, and I think it's important that you can listen to other women's perspectives and what they've been through.

如果你今天过得很糟，希望至少不会比米莎的第一天更糟糕。

And if you're having a bad day, it's probably hopefully, it's not as bad as Misha's first day.

你就像在说，贱人，希望这真的能让我振作起来。

You're like, bitch, hopefully this really brings

这会

me up.

点亮

This will

但你说得对。

brighten But you're right.

有时候当你真实面对时，大家都会经历那种感觉特别孤独的时刻，尤其是当你仰望的网络名人说'我也经历过这些'时，那种共鸣真的很美好。

It's like sometimes when you're real everyone goes through it where you're feeling so alone and there is something really nice when especially people you look up to that you know online are like, oh, I have been through it.

这能给那些独自坐在房间里的人带来力量，无论当天是好是坏，让他们意识到'天啊，我并不孤单'，其实大家经历的主题都一样。

It can give that person sitting in their room, whether it's a good or bad day to be like, damn, I'm so not alone in that it's all the same themes.

我们彼此之间都有着联系。

It's all we all have ties to each other.

只是我们经历或感受的方式不同罢了。

It's just we experience it or feel it differently.

不过，我真的很感谢你今天敞开心扉，因为我知道你平时很少做这类分享。

But, no, I really appreciate you opening up today because I know you don't do a lot of this kind of stuff.

确实很少。

No.

但我认为在合适的环境下，这次交流真的很...

But I think in the right environment, like it it was such a

很有力量。其实我一直想和你聊聊，因为我觉得从你身上能获得很好的能量。

powerful Well, wanted to talk to you, because I think I you're get good vibes from you.

当我第一次和你交谈时，我就觉得在所有人中，你是最合适的，确实如此。

And when I was when I first spoke to you, I was like, out of everybody that I could talk to, like, yeah, it's true.

我推掉了所有播客邀约之类的，但和你聊天真的很愉快。

I turned down all the podcasts and stuff, but it's been fun talking to you.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我真的很感激。

I really appreciate that.

最后一个问题。

Last question.

好的。

Yes.

粉丝们接下来可以期待你带来什么？

What can fans expect from you next?

你最近在忙些什么？

What are you up to in your life?

就告诉我们

Just like give us

最新消息。

the tea.

哦，你知道有趣的是，去年我工作相当多，虽然很忙但很有趣，所以我经常旅行。

Oh, you know what's fun is well, I was working quite a bit last year, which was which was fun, and so I was traveling a lot.

当时我在澳大利亚工作，现在我想今年晚些时候会在澳大利亚拍一部浪漫喜剧，这对我来说是个全新的领域。

And then so I was working in Australia, and now I think I'm gonna be doing a rom com later this year in Australia, which is a really new territory for me.

停。

Stop.

她是个非常有趣的角色。

So she's a really fun character.

是啊，我知道。

Yeah, I know.

虽然不是那种典型的角色，但她有种独特的幽默感，这个角色本身也很有魅力，而且我觉得那里的拍摄背景会非常美。

It's not the kind of role, but she's got this kind of like, great sense of humor to her, the character and stuff, and I just think it's such a beautiful backdrop to to film in.

是啊，我真的...我感觉我现在慌得不行。

Yeah, I really, I feel I feel this I'm freaking out.

还有就是，去年我在爱尔兰拍了部小电影，这对我来说特别有意思，因为能回到我的爱尔兰血统附近。

That, and yeah, I did a little movie in Ireland last year, which was really fun for me, because I got to be back near my Irish roots.

太好玩了。

It's so fun.

对啊。

Yeah.

就是...

Just a

你演浪漫喜剧诶。

You in a rom com.

我知道。

I know.

米莎，我已经激动到说不出话了。

Misha, I'm like It would be very I'm already gagged.

我喜欢这部作品，因为它以一种现代、真实的视角呈现，女主角幽默感十足又脚踏实地，而且配角阵容也很出彩——她有妹妹，他有哥哥，这些人际关系的化学反应在剧中频繁碰撞。

I love this one because it's like a modern day, like, real take on, you know, she's got a great sense of humor, and she's really grounded, and like, the supporting, like, he's got a brother in it, and she's got her sister, so those dynamics also come into play a lot.

所以我觉得

So I think

我是。

I am.

剧本很棒，让

It's a great script and Let

我直说吧。

me just say this.

爸爸帮（粉丝团）和我都会捧着爆米花坐等开播，全力支持我们的女孩。

The daddy gang, my fans, and I will be sat ready to watch with our popcorn, ready to support our girl.

也会回看的。

Back too.

我是说， 对啊。

Like, I mean, yeah.

这是个有趣的类型。

It's a fun genre.

我们并不总想一直处于那种惊惶奔逃的状态，演这些戏剧性角色。

We don't always wanna be in like, you know, running scared and doing these dramatic roles.

没错。

Right.

就像我们情绪低落时，有时就想捧着爆米花开怀大笑。

And like our emo days, like, want sometimes we wanna like little laugh with our popcorn.

米莎，我无法表达对你前来参与并信任我进行这次对话的感激。

Misha, I cannot thank you enough for coming on for trusting me with this conversation.

真的，能更深入了解你是莫大的荣幸。

And like, truly, it has been such a pleasure to get to know you more.

虽然我知道你还有很多面未被展现，但非常感谢你抽空与我交谈，这确实是我最喜爱的对话之一。

And I feel like, I mean, I know there's so much more to you, but I appreciate you sitting down with me because this was really one of my faves.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常感谢你能来，从繁忙的生活中抽出时间。

And thank you, thank you, thank you for coming and taking time out of your busy life.

不，应该是我谢谢你。

No, Thanks.

很高兴我们能在纽约这里见面。

I'm glad we got to meet up here in New York.