贝卡·托宾引发骚动！

主观的。

Subjective.

是啊。

Yeah.

总之，那是我在播客上经历过最尴尬的时刻了。

Anyways, I that was my most embarrassing moment I've ever had on a podcast.

不过话说回来，在百老汇，那依然是艺术。

But anyways, on Broadway, there it's still art.

所以你会觉得，你知道，她不是我心目中最理想的艾法巴（《魔法坏女巫》主角），但也不至于说演得很差。

So you're like, know, she's, she wasn't my favorite Elphaba and wicked, but it wasn't like she sucked.

没错。

Yeah.

而在电视行业，显然你也需要一些技能，但很大程度上取决于长相，看他们在镜头前的面孔如何。

And then in TV, obviously, you have to have some skill, but a lot of it is how pretty somebody is, what their face looks like on a camera.

而在百老汇，作为一名舞者，你会为自己的身体多么强健而感到无比自豪。

And and with Broadway, you're a dancer, you're so proud of how strong your body is.

你每周要演八场，所以不能让自己饿着。

You have to do eight shows a week, so you can't starve yourself.

我是说，虽然肯定有人能做到，但这并不是常态。

I mean, I'm sure people can do, but it's just not so much the norm.

而且百老汇的观众群体其实很小。

And then also, Broadway is a small audience.

当年我演出时规模更小，现在稍微大些了。

There's not people back then when I was doing it, it's a little bigger now.

那时候已经有留言板，人们可以在上面说你坏话。

There's like message boards where people could talk shit about you.

是啊。

Yeah.

但电视剧不一样，我记得刚被选中参演《欢乐合唱团》时。

But but TV, I remember I got cast on Glee.

那简直像一阵旋风。

It was a whirlwind.

我当时住在纽约。

I was living in New York at the time.

我只有一周时间从纽约搬到洛杉矶。

I had a week to move from New York to LA.

我穿着啦啦队服拍了宣传照，我在剧里演啦啦队员，所以穿着制服扎着高马尾。

I did a press shoot in my new, like, I was a Cheerio on the show, so I had my Cheerios uniform with my high ponytail.

然后他们发布了这些新闻稿。

And they put these press releases out.

这就像是《欢乐合唱团》的新演员阵容，你知道的，来认识一下这些人。

And it's like the new cast of Glee, you know, here, meet the people.

我记得，大概在视频上网五分钟内，就看到一条评论说我穿着啦啦队制服像个40岁的家庭主妇。

And I remember, like, within five minutes of that going on the Internet, I saw a comment about how I looked like a 40 year old housewife in a in a cheerleading uniform.

比如，一些非常恶毒的话。

Like, some really nasty thing.

关于我的身材、长相、声音，我的一切都有太多负面评论了。

There were so many comments about my body, my face, my voice, my everything.

所以你被这些人的各种评价淹没了，而之前在纽约时我受到很好的保护。

So you were inundated with all these people's opinions of you where before I was so protected in New York.

那完全是另一个世界。

It was just a different world.

你知道，这真的很可悲，因为通常和我搭档的娜塔莉是个演员，她也经历过这些。

And, you know, that's so sad because so Natalie, who who I usually is my cohost, she's an actor, and and so she gets a taste of that.

我相信她来上节目的话肯定能感同身受。

You know, I'm sure she could come on and relate.

但是，对我来说，不是这样的。

But, like, for me, it's like, no.

我是个消费者。

I'm a consumer.

我是个观众。

I'm a viewer.

比如，我真的很喜欢《欢乐合唱团》。

Like, I'm I love Glee.

对，我就是这样。

Like, I am Yeah.

我会反复重看。

I do the rewatches.

你知道吗？

You know?

我会在睡前重温。

I go back, and it's before bed.

所以这真的很让人难过。

And and so it's so sad.

不只是《欢乐合唱团》这样。

It's it's not just Glee.

我是说，回去看看《老友记》的幕后故事也一样。

It's every I mean, go back and read about Friends.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

但这真的很令人难过，当你听到那些事情时，就像，什么情况？

But it's, like, it's so sad when you hear those things because it's like, what?

你懂吗？

You know?

因为你们那时都还年轻。

Because all of you were young.

明白吗？

You know?

我相信你们都经历过这些，而且那时你们都还年轻。

I'm sure all of you dealt with it and you were all young.

是啊。

Yeah.

当然，这太让人难过了。

And of course, that's so sad.

不过我得说，你知道的，我确实说过舒先生一两句，但从没评论过他的外貌。

Although I will say, you know, I have been known to say a thing or two about mister Shoe, but never on his looks.

天啊。

Oh my god.

说到马特·莫里森，百老汇时期我曾疯狂迷恋过他，因为他就是从百老汇起家的。

He, speaking of Matt Morrison was somebody who I was madly in love with in the Broadway days because he started on Broadway.

是啊。

Yeah.

那时我还在上高中，经常去看他的演出——我记得看的是他在《发胶明星梦》里的表演。

And I was in high school and I would go see I think he was in hairspray was what I saw him in.

记得当时我对马特·莫里森简直欲火焚身。

And I remember being like so horny for Matt Morrison.

结果成年后我居然要和他一起拍《欢乐合唱团》。

And then and then I had to go do Glee with him as an adult.

我当时就想：我16岁的自己要是知道这事，脑袋肯定会炸开，懂吗？

And I was like, this is so my 16 year old self, her head is exploding, you know?

我太爱他了。

I just love him.

天啊。

Oh my god.

那真是有趣。

That's that's funny.

不。

No.

我是说，我绝对热爱《欢乐合唱团》。

I mean, I I absolutely love Glee.

喜欢你在《欢乐合唱团》里的表现。

Love you on Glee.

喜欢《欢乐合唱团》里的每个人。

Love everyone on Glee.

我记得《欢乐合唱团》播出时我正在上大学。

And I think it was a show I was in college during Glee.

所以对我来说，那就像是我和室友的共同回忆。

So, like, for me, it was like a me and my roommate type thing.

它并没有真正让音乐变得重要，不是说它把音乐推上了舞台。

Like, it really put music not to, like it didn't put music on the map.

但如果你回头去看，里面有太多歌曲和串烧可以让人们跟着唱，这些孩子可能连原版都不知道。

But, like, if you go back and watch, there are so many songs and medleys that people can sing along to that these kids probably don't even know the original.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

所以我觉得出于这个原因，我不是个百老汇女孩。

And, like so I think for that reason, I'm not a Broadway gal.

也许我本该是的，但是，天啊。

Maybe I should have been, but like, oh my god.

我超爱那些串烧曲。

I loved the medleys.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我还特别喜欢那个主题。

And I loved, like, the theme.

比如，永远忘不了布兰妮出场的时候。

Like, never forget when Britney came on.

天啊。

Oh god.

那真是太棒了。

That was a great one.

太棒了。

Great one.

那真是个疯狂的时代。

That was a wild time.

希瑟·莫里斯太有才华了，她完美演绎了那段。

And Heather Heather Morris is so she's just so talented that she crushed it.

后来她演了布兰妮特辑后，他们又在第四季左右做了另一期布兰妮特辑。

And then we did it she did her Britney episode, and then they did another Britney episode later, like in season four, I wanna say or something.

总之就是这样。

Anyways yeah.

但那确实是段疯狂的时光。

But it was, yeah, wild times.

我知道我看过，很多演员后来都继续发展了。

Do you I know I've seen, like, a lot of the cast has gone on.

你知道的，有播客之类的。

You know, there's podcasts and stuff.

你和任何人还保持联系吗？还是说那就像高中时期的一个片段？

Do you keep in touch with anyone, or is it kind of like, that's a moment of like high school?

就像，那是时光中的一个片段。

It's like, that's a moment of time.

有点像高中时期，那是时光中的一个片段，但我从那段时间里保留了一些人脉，你知道的，我和少数几个人一直保持很亲近。

It's kind of like high school where it's like, it's a moment in time, but then I've kept certain people from that moment of time, you know, like, I've stayed really close to a handful.

当然，当我们见到其他人时，那感觉就像一个温暖的拥抱。

And then, of course, anytime we see the rest of them, it's like a big warm hug.

我觉得那时候真是媒体界的一段特殊时期，现在依然如此，谈论那些戏剧和八卦总是令人兴奋。

Like, it's it really I think at the time, it was such a time in the media where it still is now where it was so exciting to talk about the drama and the blah blah blah whatever.

但真的，那就像一个大家庭，对我们很多人来说都非常有趣。

But really, it was like a big family, and it was so much fun for so many of us.

而且我们大家都有同样的感受。

And and we all kind of feel the same way.

我们彼此之间都有着非常深厚的感情。

We are all we all have, like, a deep, deep love for each other.

完全同意。

Totally.

我我是说，这这很有道理。

I I mean, that that makes sense.

你有没有看非真人秀的节目？

Is there a show that you watch that's not reality?

我来换个话题。

I'll shift.

不是真人秀。

Not reality.

是的。

Yeah.

因为你在《欢乐合唱团》中的经历，让你能够理解，你知道你们共同经历的那些事。

That that you are like you can because, I mean, because the knowledge you have from Glee, it's like, you know what you guys went through.

有没有一部你正在看的剧让你觉得‘天啊，他们真的做到了’？

Is there a show that you're watching that you're like, oh my god, they have it.

就像那个演员阵容真的做到了。

Like, that cast has it.

就是这样。

Like, that's it.

你能感受到那种默契。

Like, you can feel the connection.

因为我确信，当我们在播客里邀请真人秀嘉宾时，他们总说没法看真人秀，因为会忍不住惊呼‘天啊’。

Because I'm sure, you know, when we've had reality people on the podcast, they talk about not being able to watch reality because they're like, oh my god.

不行。

No.

是啊。

So Yeah.

你看剧本剧集时感觉会不一样吗？

Is it different for you when you're watching scripted series?

完全不会。

Not at all.

我的意思是，我当然对幕后制作略知一二，但每个剧组都不同。

I mean, I I I obviously know a little bit how the sausage is made, but every set is different.

每次经历都是独特的。

Every experience is different.

所以有些时候我会觉得，哦，这个我看不下去。

So I like, there's some moments where I'm like, oh, I can't watch this.

就是不管什么原因让我觉得尴尬或不舒服。

It's just whatever it is cringey for me or what or whatever.

那通常只是因为演技太差。

That's mostly just when it's bad performances.

但现在，我完全沉迷于《金装律师》了。

But right now, I fell into the suits.

哦。

Oh.

第一次为

For the first For

第一次。

the first time.

哦。

Oh.

我太爱这部剧了。

And I love it so much.

我现在正在看《安眠书店》第五季，已经提前开始为剧终感到难过了。

I am You season five right now, and I am so I'm mourning the end already.

就像，我既不想它结束，又停不下来追剧。

Like, I don't want it to end, but I don't wanna stop watching.

这真是把双刃剑。

So it's a double edged sword.

你刚刚被点燃了。

You just got lit up.

被点燃了。

Lit up.

我真是这部剧的超级粉丝。

And I am such I am such a fan of the show.

我爱剧里的每一个人。

I'm I love every single person on the show.

我也是。

Same.

我看不够。

I can't get enough.

我丈夫平时对电视剧特别挑剔。

My husband is such a snob with TV normally.

我们总会选些广受好评的剧来看，对吧？

We'll put something on that is critically acclaimed, right?

比如《晨间直播秀》。

Like the morning show.

对我来说，《晨间直播秀》第一季简直是电视奇迹。

The first season of the morning show to me was TV magic.

我看了三遍。

Watched it three times.

真的太棒了。

It's so good.

对吧？

Right?

而我丈夫看完四集类似的剧就会说，我好像对它没兴趣了。

And my husband after four episodes of something like that will be like, I'm just sort of like not into it anymore.

我就是没法再投入进去了。

I just can't be into it anymore.

这很奇怪。

Which is weird.

但看《金装律师》时，我们总是睡前在床上看。

But with suits, we sit we watch it before bed, in bed.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

他会因为剧情太兴奋而睡不着，这真的很奇怪。

And he cannot go to sleep because he gets so excited and, like, amped up about the episodes, which is so weird.

我不确定，我不玩抖音。

I don't know if I mean, I'm not on TikTok.

所以不知道这是不是抖音潮流，但为什么大家都在重温这部剧？

So I don't know if this is a TikTok thing, but, like, why is everyone so why why are we doing a rewatch now?

是因为梅根·马克尔吗？

Is it, like, at the Meghan Markle of it all?

突然间大家都在看，而我也乐在其中。

Like, all of a sudden and I'm loving it.

它重新上架Netflix了。

It's back on Netflix.

就像，我当初看的时候就超爱。

Like, I watched it at the time originally loved.

我是说

I mean

这说明你是个真正的电视迷。

Which is so you're a real TV fan.

但真的很奇怪，我努力回想，

But a real odd I'm trying to remember, and I'm sure whoever needs the shout out is not gonna get it because I don't know who told me to watch, and I don't know why I started.

但2012年，我当时的男友（现在是丈夫），我们打开USA电视台，晚上一起看这部剧。

But 2012, my boy my husband, but boyfriend at the time, we're we're tuning on we are throwing on the USA Network, and we're watching it at night.

我们当时完全着迷了。

And we we were obsessed.

至于哈维，我是说，听着。

And Harvey, I mean, listen.

能让我质疑一切的男人不多，但他算一个。

There's not many men who make me question it all, but he's one of them.

我知道。

I know.

是啊。

Yeah.

真难以置信。

I can't believe it.

而且我讨厌演员。

And I hate actors.

对啊。

Like Yeah.

我...完全没感觉。

I there's nothing.

我从来没有对另一个角色有过这种感觉。

I never I have had this with one other character.

因为关键在于。

Because here's the thing.

我是因为哈维就是哈维才喜欢他。

It's Harvey as Harvey that I'm with.

我知道如果我遇到加布里埃尔·加布里埃尔，我只会觉得，哦，无所谓。

I know if I met Gabriel Gabriel, that I'd be like, oh, whatever.

他是个演员，好吧，你厉害。

He's an actor, like good for you.

你长得帅，随便吧。

You're attractive, whatever.

但关键是那个角色。

But it's that role.

如果那个虚构角色活过来，唯一让我有同样感觉的只有《浴血黑帮》里的基里安·墨菲。

If that fictional character came to life, the only other person I feel this way about is Killian Murphy in Peaky Blinders.

我当时就觉得，

I was like,

我没看过。

I didn't watch.

是Natalie看的。

Natalie did.

我正想说

I was gonna say the

另一个让我有这种感觉的人是《丑闻》里的Fitzgerald总统。

only other person I've ever felt that way about is president Fitzgerald from Scandal.

哦，是的。

Oh, yes.

没错。

Yes.

确实。

Yes.

你知道，Tony Goldwyn这个人，无论他演什么角色，我都会有这种感觉。

You know, he really he but he is somebody who Tony Goldwyn, that no matter what role he's playing, I feel that way about.

比如，还记得他演过《人鬼情未了》吗？

Like, even remember he was in Ghost?

是啊。

Yeah.

呃，不记得。

Like, no.

我完全没印象了。

I don't remember.

但后来那件事发生了。

But then that that happened.

有一次我在马里布Soho区见到了他。

And I saw him at Soho Malibu one time.

我当时就想，为什么没人兴奋起来？

And I just was like, why is no one excited?

我们为什么不能嗨一点？

Why are we not amped up?

难道没人知道那是菲兹吗？

Like, does nobody know that that's Fitz?

说实话，他看起来就像个爸爸。

And he was just like he looks like a dad, honestly.

他就那样，

Like, he's just like

他是个性感老爸。

He's hot dad.

穿着他掖进裤子的衬衫。

Wearing his tucked in shirt.

我就坐在那里，吃着我的巧克力曲奇饼，激动得喘不过气来。

And I'm just sitting there, like, eating my chocolate chip cookie, not able to breathe.

但西装们不喜欢那样。

But suits don't love that.

我爱西装。

I love suits.

是啊。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

其实是。

It's yeah.

太棒了。

It's so great.

我超爱梅根·马克尔在《金装律师》里的表现。

I and I love Meghan Markle Meghan Markle in suits.

我觉得她...其实我完全是在投射自己的感受，因为我忍不住。

I just think she's I actually am getting this is me absolutely projecting because I can't not.

我永远不会忘记当初她和哈里王子开始约会时大家嘲笑她的场景。

I will never forget when everyone was making fun of her when she started dating Prince Harry.

那些人把这事说得好像她只是USA电视台某部剧里排第七的配角似的。

And they were making it this thing where it's like, oh, she's like the seventh person on the call sheet on a show on the USA Network.

基本上就是说，她是个廉价替代品，你知道的。

Like, basically being like, she's a poor man's, you know Yeah.

随便吧。

Whatever.

作为一个曾经在演员表上排第77名的人

And as somebody who's been, like, number 77 on a call sheet

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得被冒犯了。

I take offense to that.

这依然是项成就。

It's still an accomplishment.

没错。

Yes.

而且我认为他们确实没有给予她足够的认可。

And I think it's really they did not give her enough credit.

她曾是一档非常出色节目的明星之一。

She was the star one of the stars of a very great show.

所以我特别好奇，因为我当时看了那部剧。

So I am so curious because I watched it at the time.

后来当消息传出她和他约会时，我就想，哦，我的女孩。

So then when it came out, she's dating him, I'm like, oh, my girl.

就像，我知道你是个渣男。

Like, I know you're crap.

而现在，你知道的，然后大家都各有看法。

And now, you know, and then, you know, everybody feels the type of way.

他们要么爱她，要么恨她。

They love her or they hate her.

然后那只是个不起眼的小节目。

And then it was this little dinky show.

但现在它又火了，我就想，让我们重温一下吧。

But now that it's a thing again, I'm like, let's run it back.

让我们重新开始吧。

Let's do the opening again.

再来第二轮吧，因为现在你有人支持了，我想，因为大家也这么认为。

Let's go for round two because now you got people on your side, I think, because it's think so too.

看吧，人们现在很喜欢《金装律师》，我也为他们感到高兴。

Like, people are loving suits, and I love that for them.

好的。

Okay.

现在你得深入探索下去了。

Now you have to go down the rabbit hole.

就是那场婚礼。

That is the wedding.

他们全都在场。

They all were there.

他们一起在巴士上唱着《走向教堂》准备去结婚。

They all were on the bus together singing going to the chapel and gonna get married.

为什么想不起来，等等。

Why can't think of, like Wait.

什么婚礼？

What wedding?

就是梅根的婚礼。

The the Megan's wedding.

罗伊的。

The Roy.

那场婚礼。

The wedding.

哦。

Oh.

哦。

Oh.

哦。

Oh.

是的。

Yes.

因为他们当时都在场。

Because they were all there.

她拍摄了。

She filmed.

所以在她和他约会期间，她正在完成最后一季的拍摄。

So as she was dating him, she was wrapping up her last season.

所以他们，就像，你知道的，嗯。

So they, like, you know so Mhmm.

当时有个小小的交叉期，就是女友还在拍摄，你知道的，因为他们是在多伦多拍摄。

There there was a little crossover where it's like, the girlfriend is still filming, you know, because they film in Toronto.

所以不是我，像《金装律师》里的专业人士那样。

And so not me, like, being a professional at Suits.

他们是在多伦多拍摄的。

Like, they film in Toronto.

就是，

Like, it's

一件大事。

a big deal.

嗯，大家都知道那是他们相遇时她住的地方，所以有段时间大家都以为她是加拿大人。

Well, everyone knows that's where she was living when they met, which is why everybody thought she was Canadian for a while.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Yes.

哦，你得深入挖掘一下。

So oh, you have to go down the rabbit hole.

他们当时都在那儿。

Like, they were all there.

这太可爱了。

It's like so cute.

他们都兴奋极了。

They were all so excited.

我知道。

I know.

而且，你知道，我觉得那其实，不，那太蠢了。

And that, you know, I think that that's well, no, that's stupid.

我本来想说这充分说明了她作为剧组成员的特质。

I was gonna say it speaks volumes of like, her as a cast member.

但转念一想，不，如果《欢乐合唱团》里我超级讨厌的人要嫁给王子，我也会去参加婚礼的。

But then I'm like, no, if somebody I absolutely fucking hated on Glee was getting married to a prince, I I would go to the wedding.

就像她其实没做过那种事，但她有整个剧组。

Like she didn't ever do that, but she had the cast.

她确实有整个剧组。

She had the cast.

不过我确实知道她和阿比盖尔·斯宾塞关系特别好。

But I do know she's super close with Abigail Spencer.

比如说，他们

Like, they're

是的。

Yes.

他们真的是最好的朋友。

They're genuinely, like, best friends.

我爱她。

I love her.

而且我认为阿比盖尔是地球上最美丽的女性之一。

And I think Abigail is one of the most beautiful women on women on planet Earth.

她太惊艳了。

She's so stunning.

不。

No.

不管是谁，真的，它不仅有一首绝妙的开场曲，简直棒极了。

Whoever like, it really didn't give it not only does it have a phenomenal intro song, like phenomenal.

它没有得到足够的关注来展现演员阵容有多惊艳。

It didn't get enough cover for like stunning the cast is.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我现在真的，我是说，别破坏我的幻想。

I'm right now I mean, I can't believe don't ruin it for me.

但如果唐娜和哈维最终没有在一起，我现在已经完全沉迷其中，占据了我每时每刻的心思。

But if Donna and Harvey don't end up together, like, I'm so I'm now so invested that it is it's it's taking over my every moment of every day.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以你刚才说这是你睡前看的剧。

So you said that's what you're watching before bed.

这正是我接下来想问的问题。

That was a question I was gonna ask.

比如，什么是睡前看的节目？

Like, what is a before bed show?

这个问题问得好。

That's a good one.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

你应该再看一遍。

You should do it again.

再看一轮吧。

Take another round.

说实话，我可能会再看一轮。

Honestly, I might take another round.

我我完全愿意，这种节目我很乐意再看一轮。

I I would easily like, that's something I would easily take another round.

我通过重温剧集获得慰藉。

I get comfort in like rewatching shows.

我并不想尝试去冒险探索新事物。

I'm not like trying to venture out.

是啊，我需要隔很长时间才会重看剧集。

Yeah, I well, I need a long time between the rewatching of shows.

但我确实很享受，我想这就是为什么人们喜欢《金装律师》——因为知道每集都会保持那种熟悉的模式，但又比普通程序剧更精彩，这种确定性让人感到安心。

But I do enjoy and I think that's why people enjoy suits is because there's a comfort in knowing that every episode is kind of gonna be it's a little bit like a what you've got procedural, but a little more exciting than that.

这就是为什么人们喜欢——我就喜欢知道接下来会看到什么内容。

But that's why people like I like to know what I'm getting.

我喜欢认识那些每周都会出现的固定角色。

I like to know the characters that I'm going to see every week.

我觉得电视剧正在回归这种模式，对此我非常欣赏。

And I think TV is going back to that, which I really appreciate.

现实世界已经够糟心了，我真不想再看那些...（不是贬低）

I we have so much shit going on in the world that I don't need to watch what was the stupid, not stupid.

那部剧其实也获得了极高的专业评价。

It was also very critically critically acclaimed.

但我当时就想，如果你觉得我的神经系统能承受看《最后生还者》，

But I was like, if you think for one second, my nervous system can watch The Last of Us,

赶紧滚蛋。

fuck right off.

我连试都没试。

I didn't even try.

就像，我我绝对不行。

Like, I I no.

不。

No.

我...那个...我不那样做。

I I that is I don't do that.

我喜欢看轻松有趣、傻乎乎的东西，不过我正在看《王冠》这部剧，因为我是个皇室粉，不只是哈里那种。

I do the fun, light, silly stuff, although I am watching The Crown because I'm a royal, like, not just, like, Harry.

我就是爱看皇室那些事儿。

Like, I just love royal shit.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以现在感觉很沉重，因为这是戴安娜的...

And so that is real heavy right now because it's Diana's

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

对。

Yeah.

我们现在正处于...所以这很沉重。

We're on we're on, like so that's heavy.

但不行。

But no.

我不碰沉重题材。

I don't do heavy things.

我不需要这些，我一直都是这样。

I don't need any like, I'm the same.

这就像，什么？

It's like, what?

就像，我不是为了看人们戴口罩才调台的。

Like, I'm not I'm not tuning in to watch people in masks.

我已经亲身经历过了。

I lived it.

我也经历过。

I did it.

不。

No.

我知道。

I know.

我看电视时不需要让血压升高。

I don't need my blood blood pressure raised when I'm watching TV.

这让我很烦躁。

It makes me upset.

说实话，这可能是因为当了妈妈才这样，因为

And honestly, that might come with becoming a mom because

我也这么认为。

I think so.

我我我真的觉得自从当了妈妈后，我就变得，哦，那个女孩——这是个关于一个女孩被谋杀的故事。

I I I really think that since I became a mom, I'm like, oh, that girl it's a story about a girl who gets murdered.

我很好。

I'm good.

是啊。

Yeah.

大家都说，《亢奋》这部剧太棒了。

Everyone's like, Euphoria is so amazing.

我就觉得，不行。

I'm like, no.

谢谢。

Thank you.

不。

Nope.

我已经对Z世代感到害怕了。

I'm already scared of Gen Z.

我对阿尔法世代或者我儿子将来会成为什么样的人已经感到恐惧了。

I'm already scared of whatever generation alpha, whatever my son is gonna be.

我不想知道。不要。

I don't want to know No.

这些...这些东西。

These these things.

我也一样。

I'm the same.

我喜欢活在梦幻世界里，就像你说的，现实世界已经够可怕了。

I like to live in La La Land because there you're like you said, the world the world is already scary.

其实我们刚才已经聊到了我本来想问你的问题——有没有哪部爆红的剧是你完全无法理解的？

I mean, we kinda just talked another question I was gonna ask you, is there a show that has gone viral that you're just like, don't get it?

不过，我是说，我觉得《亢奋》这种剧，你大概就

But, I mean, I feel like Euphoria, you kinda just

是啊。

Yeah.

《亢奋》《最后生还者》这类特别沉重的剧，我现在人生阶段不适合看这些。

Euphoria, The Last of Us, like anything that's like super heavy, what I just I'm not in a phase of my life.

也许某天我会重新看这类剧，因为我作为演员真的很欣赏那种表演。

Maybe at some point, I will go back because I I really love watching performances like that as an actor.

那些表演太震撼了。

It's so impressive.

但我现在就像...我的另一位播客搭档凯尔蒂总说她有套'大脑饮食'理论。

And I but I just it's like I need a my other podcast host, Kelty, she always says her brain she has a brain diet.

所以她不能接触真实犯罪这类会让她焦虑的内容。

So she, like, can't expose her brain to true crime, anything that's gonna make her anxious.

我觉得我现在也处于这种'大脑节食'状态。

And I think I'm on a brain diet right now too.

哦，百分之百同意。

Oh, 100%.

我会称之为生活饮食，因为我无法接受那些...娜塔莉让我看了什么来着？

I will call it a life diet because like I can't do anything that's like I we had to what did Natalie make me watch?

比如默多夫谋杀案，我哭得蜷缩成一团。

Like the Murdaugh murders and I'm like crying in the fetal position.

太可怕了。

It's horrible.

太可怕了。

It's horrible.

我偶尔会涉足那个领域。

I do occasionally dip my toe into that world.

但我无法理解那些能沉浸在真实犯罪故事里的女性。

I but I don't understand the women who can live in that true crime universe.

这只会让我感到难过。

It makes me it it just makes me sad.

是啊。

Yeah.

那是什么节目来着？

What was that show?

不是我。

Not me.

那个节目叫什么？

What was the show?

凯莉·库柯。

Kaylee Cuoco.

是在孔雀台播的。

It was on Peacock.

哦，对。

Oh, yes.

她演的是那个播客主持人。

Where she played the podcast host.

是的。

Yes.

我没看过。

I didn't see it.

它好看吗？

I it was it good?

挺不错的。

It was good.

很有趣。

It was funny.

从播客的角度来说很有意思。

As it's funny podcasting wise.

就是很搞笑。

It's just funny.

而且看着也很有意思，这不是我们第一次看到播客这么生动了。哦，对。

Also very interesting to see, not the first time we've seen podcasting come alive Oh, yeah.

在我们的屏幕上。

On our screen.

我要说我是《Only Murders》的狂热粉丝。

I will say I am a Only Murders fanatic.

哦。

Oh.

史蒂夫·马丁，马丁·肖特。

Steve Martin, Arton Short.

需要去看。

Need to do it.

我得去看。

I need to do it.

我没有足够的时间，但我知道我一定会爱上这部剧。

I don't have enough time, but that is on the I'm like, I know I'm going to love this.

你是百老汇女孩，你一定会喜欢的。

You are the Broadway gal, and you is gonna love it.

真的，我绝对会让人停车关掉广播，因为我每年每季都忍不住要谈论它。

Like, I absolutely people are pulling over, and they're turning it off because I can't stop talking about it every year, every season.

就是有种感觉，我想说的是，看到播客被搬上电视很有趣，因为这是我们正在经历的新事物。蒂娜·菲在里面演了个非常滑稽的角色。

It's just something about and and I mean, what I was gonna say is, like, it's interesting to see podcasting on television because it's a new ish thing that we're And so for that, I mean, Tina Fey plays, a really funny part.

就像，你会觉得

Like, you'll just like

我爱

I love

这真的非常棒。

It's it's it's very good.

但我不是...哦，我本来想说的是那些真实犯罪题材的人，确实让我害怕。

But I don't oh, where I was going is that the true crime people, yeah, they scare me.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但换个角度想，能不被那些恐怖事物吓到的人生该多自在啊。

But also, like, what a life to live to not be scared by all those scary things.

我知道。

I know.

另一位《The Lady Gang》的主持人，是我们三个，杰克。

By the other host of The Lady Gang, it's the three of us, Jack.

她还有另一个播客《The First Degree》，全是关于真实犯罪的。

She has another podcast, The First Degree, which is all true crime.

所以她工作内容是真实犯罪，回家还会看几个小时的真实犯罪节目。

So her work is true crime, and then she'll go home and watch hours and hours of true crime on television.

我就想，要是我那样做，我连进洗衣房都会害怕。

And I'm like, if I did that, I would be afraid to go into my laundry room with

我已经放弃了。

I already laid off.

我太疯狂了。

I am so crazy.

我就想，为什么我们会因为想到被强奸和谋杀而感到兴奋？

I'm like, why are we getting aroused at the thought of being raped and murdered?

我很困惑。

I'm confused.

而娜塔莉·娜塔莉也是一样。

And Natalie Natalie is the same.

她会说，哦，我今天压力特别大。

She's like, oh, I've had a really stressful day.

就像，我只需要泡个澡，然后打开《法网》节目。

Like, I just need to take a bath and, like, turn on Dateline.

我说，《法网》永远不可能是泰，我丈夫开玩笑说，我要打开《法网》节目，因为他只要放两秒钟，我就会恐慌。

I said, Dateline could never be Ty, my husband as a joke is like, I'm gonna throw on Dateline because if he puts it on for two seconds, I panic.

我我我理解你的感受。

I I I get the you.

因为凶手总是丈夫。

Because it's always the husband.

永远都是配偶。

It's always just spouse.

比如，不。

Like, no.

所以，是的，我的大脑不行，我的大脑不是那样工作的。

And so, yeah, my brain no, my brain doesn't work like that.

我需要泡个泡泡浴，可能还要看部玛丽-凯特和阿什莉的电影。

I need a bubble bath in like maybe a Mary Kate and Ashley movie.

哦，天啊。

Oh, god.

我简直着迷了。

I was obsessed.

你在开玩笑吗？

Are you kidding me?

这需要...哦，天哪。

It Takes Oh, my god.

是啊。

Yeah.

我也曾经痴迷过。

I was obsessed.

好吧。

Okay.

我我我简直太棒了。

I I I have totally wow.

我刚刚在这么短的时间里就涵盖了这么多内容

I just, like, covered so much in, like, such a small amount

我们已经真的解决了所有问题，我是说，任何在听的司机都要把车开到路边去了

of We've really we've solved all I mean, anyone listening is they're driving off the side of the road

因为他们无法控制兴奋，因为我觉得你的能量和我的能量很匹配，而且你有那种妈妈脑，可以瞬间切换话题。

because they can't They're excited because I feel like your energy matches my energy and, like, you have the mom brain where it's like, you can go from one thing to another.

就像是'哦，没错'

It's like Oh, yeah.

你根本不需要路线图。

You don't need a road map.

我不是直线思维的人。

I'm not linear.

自从儿子出生后，我就失去了这种能力。

I lost that capability after my son was born.

实际上在儿子出生后，我经历了一次小崩溃，我儿子是由代孕妈妈孕育的。

I actually had a little bit of a meltdown after my son was born, and I had a surrogate carry my son.

所以我从未...我曾几次怀孕未果，确实体验过些许怀孕过程，但没有经历荷尔蒙变化。

And so I never I never I've been pregnant unsuccessfully a few times, so I experienced a little bit of pregnancy, But I didn't have the hormonal thing.

我没有亲自分娩。

I didn't deliver him.

这些经历我都没有。

I didn't none of those things.

但我依然患上了那种脑损伤——就是当新生命来到这个世界后，你拼命想养活他，接下来一年里得到的那种？

But I still had whatever that brain damage is that you get the year after a new child is brought into the world that you're trying to keep alive?

我是说，那些起起落落、睡眠不足、所有的一切。

I mean, the ups and downs, the no sleep, the the the all of it.

这简直太疯狂了。

It's it's the craziest.

现在你已经进入第二年，感觉更不可思议了。

And now that you're, like, like, into year two, it's just so crazy.

你是不是已经忘记第一年的事了？

Like, don't you already forget the first year?

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

确实忘了。

I do.

我是说，虽然没忘记当时很痛苦，但具体确实忘了。

I mean, I don't forget that I hated it, but I do forget it.

我已经记不清那些日常了。

I don't remember the day to day.

所以人们会说，这就是为什么你会再来一次，因为你的身体似乎忘记了所有糟糕的事情。

And that's why people are like, that's why you do it again because you, like your body just kinda, like, forgets all the bad things.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且我要说，我很庆幸我事先就知道自己不会享受新生儿阶段。

And I I will say it was so I knew I'm glad that I knew going into it that I was not going to enjoy the newborn phase.

我已经...我都八百岁了。

I have been I'm 800 years old.

到现在，我认识的每个人，包括我小时候帮忙带过孩子的那些女孩，都比我早生孩子。

I at this point everyone I know including like girls I've babysat for as a child had children before me.

所以我就想，这下可露馅了。

So I'm like, the jig is up.

新生儿一点都不好玩。

Newborns are not fun.

我完全不是那种妈妈类型，但我有些朋友确实是。

There's nothing I am not the mom, and I some of my friends really are.

她们会说，'我想整天抱着新生儿，闻他们，喂他们'。

They're like, I wanna hold a newborn all day and smell it and feed it.

对她们来说，这就像水疗体验一样

And like they are it is like a spa experience

。

to them.

那是非常特殊的一类人。

That is a very specific type of person.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得大多数女性都会想，'赶紧熬过这第一年吧'。

For the most part, I think most women are like, let's get this first year over with.

我们赶紧熬过去。

Let's just let's get it.

我是说，这其中也有甜蜜的时刻。

I mean, there's sweet moments in it.

这太难了。

It's so hard.

即使是现在，也还是很艰难。

Even now, it's so hard.

即使现在我儿子都快两岁了，他还是让我头疼不已。

Even now with my son who's almost two, he's a pain in my ass.

他90%的时间都对我很混蛋。

He's such a jerk to me 90% of the time.

比起第一年，我更喜欢现在这个阶段。

I love this so much more than the first year.

第一年就是你的战场。

The first year is just your battle.

就像你说的，无论你以何种方式拥有孩子，这都不重要。

I mean, like you said, whether you're you however you get your child, it don't matter.

好吗？

Okay?

责任重大。

Big responsibility.

你的生活已经彻底改变了。

You are just your life has changed.

你的婚姻关系正在发生变化。

Your everything your marriage is changing.

你以为你了解的一切，都烟消云散了。

Everything you thought you knew, out the window gone goodbye.

而且完全没法睡觉，真的。

And it's like, no sleep, man.

我不是在夸张，我第二个女儿才六个月大。

I'm I'm not telling you, like, my daughter my second is six months old.

这种睡眠不足简直太疯狂了。

And the no sleep is just wild.

你现在还在熬夜不睡觉吗？

Are you still doing the no sleep?

她每晚醒一次，我倒没什么可抱怨的，但就是不明白为什么我们不能熬过第一次醒来的时间。

She's waking up once a night, which I can't complain, but I just don't understand why we can't just gun it through that first wake up.

我们就继续这样吧。

Let's just keep it rolling.

继续睡。

Keep sleeping.

但你知道，说到底，你只是在想，什么能让我的生活更轻松些？

But, you know, at the end of the day, you're just kinda like, what's gonna make my life easier?

是啊。

Yeah.

最美好的是这一切都是暂时的。

And it's all the thing that's so nice is it's all temporary.

我完全同意。

I am Totally.

我很感激自己这么晚才要孩子，有几个原因。

I'm grateful that I did have kids this late for a few reasons.

当然，有一个明显的我不感激的原因——如果我是少女妈妈，事情本应该容易得多。

I mean, the one obvious reason that I'm not grateful is that it really wasn't as easy as it should have been if I was a teen mom.

但既然已经这样了，我非常庆幸自己现在根本不会过度纠结任何事。

But now that I'm here, I am so grateful that I don't actually overthink a thing.

所以大家都问，你什么时候给他戒奶瓶？

So everybody's like, when are you gonna take the bottle away?

我就觉得无所谓，反正我知道他不可能带着奶瓶去上大学。

And I'm like, I feel like it, because I know he's not gonna go to fucking college with a bottle.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像我知道他不可能在学校所有人都用马桶时还继续拉在裤子里。

Like, there are just things I know he's gonna not gonna keep shitting his pants when everyone at school is using a toilet.

至少我希望如此。

I mean, I hope so.

这甚至不是有意要给出建议，但对妈妈们来说确实是很好的建议，因为自从这个播客开始以来，我不断有孩子。

That's really without even, like, meaning to give advice, that's really good advice to give, like, moms because we get you know, since I've had since this podcast started, I keep having kids.

所以突然间我现在成了个妈妈播客主，但人们总是说，给我建议，给我建议。

And so all of a sudden now I'm a mom podcaster, but that's always like, give me advice, give me advice.

而我从来不知道说什么，因为我觉得我无法给你任何建议，我自己也不懂。

And I never have, I never know what to say because I'm like, I can't give you any advice I don't know.

但我想借你的话补充一点建议：第二次, 就是重新来过的机会。

But the one advice that I would piggyback off yours is second time is a do over.

第二次时，我不断告诉自己没有什么会永远持续。

And second time, I kept telling myself nothing lasts forever.

这是永恒的。

This is permanent.

无论是好阶段还是坏阶段，都不是永恒的。

Whether it's a good phase or a bad phase, it's not permanent.

就像你刚才说的，不要过度思考任何事情，因为我也一样。

And so like you just said, not overthinking anything because I'm the same.