在麻将桌上传承文化与传统

本周在NPR政治播客中，70%的美国人表示他们居住的地方对普通家庭来说已无法负担。

This week on the NPR politics podcast, 70% of Americans say they live somewhere that isn't affordable for average families.

这一比例比今年夏天的45%有所上升。

That's up from just 45% over the summer.

但特朗普单方面推动了导致价格上涨的杠杆。

But with Trump, he has unilaterally pushed a lever that makes prices go up.

特朗普总统任内关税与可负担性问题的政治变迁，尽在NPR政治播客。

The shifting politics of tariffs and affordability for president Trump on the NPR politics podcast.

请在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听。

Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

大家好。

Hey, everyone.

您正在收听NPR的《代码切换》节目。

You're listening to code switch from NPR.

我是BA·帕克。

I'm BA Parker.

我是让·丹比。

And I'm Jean Denby.

让，你们家在节日或聚会时会玩什么游戏吗？

Jean, were there any games that your family would play at holidays or, like, get togethers?

天哪。

Oh, man.

在感恩节，老一辈的人，比如我姑姑卡罗尔、叔叔赫布、表弟马克，他们会通宵达旦地在桌边玩花生酱游戏。

So on Thanksgivings, the old folks are, like, my aunt Carol, my uncle Herb, my cousin Mark, they'll be up to ungodly hours playing peanut butter at the table.

凌晨两点三十，我会下楼和小表弟们玩PlayStation之类的，而他们还在那儿继续玩，互相调侃，吵吵闹闹。

It'd be like 02:30 in the morning, I would come downstairs and play PlayStation with my little cousins or whatever, and they would still be going at it, like talking trash, carrying on.

那有什么固定的仪式吗？

Were there, like, rituals around it?

我不知道。

I don't know.

你知道你是怎么从小孩桌升级到大人桌的吗？

Like, you know how you graduate to the the big the grown up stable?

就像我从来没学会玩花生游戏，就直接升级到大人桌了。

Like, graduated to the grown up stable when I never learned how to play peanut.

现在我有点后悔了。

And I kinda regret that now.

不过我妻子的家人玩的是另一种版本，据他们跟我说，这是来自南印度的一种叫‘潘纳’的扑克游戏。

And my ladies family though, they play this version of the way it was described to me was poker from Southern India called panna.

但他们玩的时候有一套非常具体的家规，根本没法在其他地方复制。

But they play with these house rules that are so specific that it doesn't, like, translate to literally any other place.

我妻子的表亲们，一个都不会玩。

My wife, none of her cousins none of them know how to play it.

所以这游戏迟早会随着老一辈人消失。

So that's going it's going to die with the old heads.

不管怎样，帕克，你呢？

Anyway, what about you Parker?

你们帕克家有什么节日游戏传统吗？

What kind of holiday game traditions do y'all have in the Parker compound?

我的意思是，我们家是玩黑桃的家族。

I mean, we are we are a spades playing family.

不过，我觉得我这辈子都没上过成年人的牌桌。

Although, I don't think I have made it to the grown up table in all of my years.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

但主要是表亲们一边喝着啤酒加番茄汁，一边在你出牌违规时互相喊些难听的名字。

But it's mostly like cousins drinking beer with Clamato juice and calling each other, you know, not so nice names when you renege.

等等。

Wait.

等等。

Wait.

等等。

Wait.

啤酒和像V8吗？

Beer and like v eight?

什么？

What?

听着，这不归我管。

Look, it's not my ministry.

我们可以问问我的表姐Chunky，但她可是打牌和相关社群的行家。

We can ask my cousin Chunky, but, like, she is an aficionado of all things spades and community around it.

Chunky知道她会在《Cold Switch》里频繁客串吗？

Do Chunky know that she'd be having these wild ass cameos on Cold Switch?

她绝对是世界上最有趣的女人。

She's legit the most interesting woman in the world.

但像斯派德斯和Spike V8，那是帕克庄园的Wild Toms。

But like Spades and Spike v eight, that's Wild Toms at the Parker Compound.

太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

我给她发条短信。

I'll text her that.

但珍，今天我想和你聊聊另一个深受喜爱的节日游戏，这个游戏非常适合喝酒、互相取笑和尽情放纵——麻将。

But, Jean, today I wanna talk to you about a different beloved holiday game that has ample opportunity for drinking and name calling and general debauchery, mahjong.

我从来没玩过麻将。

I have never actually played mahjong.

我觉得我见过别人玩，但我自己从来没玩过。

I think I've seen people play, but never I've never played it.

你玩过吗？

Have you?

我以为我从小就会玩，但后来发现我只是在用麻将牌玩电脑上的匹配游戏。

Well, I thought I grew up playing it, but it turns out I was just playing the computer matching game using mahjong tiles.

所以，直到现在，我的手机上还有这个游戏，我得提醒自己那不是真正的麻将。

So, like, even now it's on my phone and I gotta remind myself that's not it.

但据我所知，麻将不是一个人能玩的游戏。

But as far as I know, it's not something you can play by yourself.

这可不是接龙游戏。

It's not like solitaire.

对吧？

Right?

不对。

No.

不对。

No.

你不行的，珍。

You can't, Jean.

事实上，它是非常具有社群性的。

In fact, it's very communal.

今年早些时候，我们的制片人克里斯蒂娜·卡拉去了华盛顿特区史密森尼国家亚洲艺术博物馆参加一场麻将聚会。

So earlier this year, one of our producers, Christina Kala, went to a mahjong meetup at the Smithsonian National Museum of Asian Art in DC.

好的。

Okay.

听起来说起来挺有趣的。

That sounds fun to say.

好吧。

Okay.

嗯。

Yeah.

这是一个让不同水平的麻将玩家聚在一起玩耍的机会。

And it was an opportunity for mahjong players with all skill sets to hang out and just play.

你知道的，从高手到新手，水平参差不齐。

You know, from experts all the way to first timers with mixed success.

站在我们身后的一户广东家庭正在互相交谈，说我们玩的是美式麻将，这挺有趣的，因为我们的

That was a Cantonese family that was standing behind us, and they were talking to each other saying that we're playing America style, which is funny because we

我们也不知道自己在干什么。

We don't know what we're doing.

我们不确定接下来该怎么做。

We're not sure what's next.

我们被告知我们玩的是中国或台湾风格，但后来有人说是应该多发几张起始牌。

We were told we were playing Chinese and or Taiwanese style already, and then somebody said that we should have had more starting tiles.

所以我不确定。

So I I don't know.

或者少发几张起始牌。

Or fewer starting tiles.

珍，结果发现打麻将的方式有这么多不同的版本。

Jean, turns out there are so many different ways to play mahjong.

啊。

Ah.

总之，我采访了这个麻将活动的组织者尼科尔·王。

Anyways, I spoke to the creator of the mahjong event, Nicole Wong.

好的。

Okay.

她是‘麻将项目’的创始人，也是《亚洲侨民各地的麻将家规》一书的作者。

She's the founder of something called the mahjong project and author of the book, Mahjong, House Rules from Across the Asian Diaspora.

麻将是一种牌类游戏。

Mahjong is a tile based game.

这是一种用厚重的塑料牌来玩的游戏。

So it's a game that you play with these chunky plastic tiles.

如果你把一套麻将牌想象成一副扑克牌，扑克牌有四种花色：红心、方块、黑桃和梅花，而麻将则有三种不同的花色。

So if you think of a set of mahjong tiles similar to a deck of cards, instead of having four suits, hearts, diamonds, spades, clubs, it has three different suits.

你会被发到一组随机的牌，游戏的目标是轮流摸牌，直到组成一组特定的牌型组合。

You're dealt a collection of random tiles, and then the object of the game is to take turns, to get to the point where you have completed a hand, which is like getting certain combinations put together.

这比我读你的书之前对麻将的理解简单多了。

This is infinitely simpler than what I interpreted it as before I started reading your book.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这条信息来自Wise，一款全球用钱的应用。

This message comes from Wise, the app for using money around the globe.

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加入数百万用户，访问 wise.com。

Join millions of customers and visit wise.com.

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Ts and cs apply.

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NPR has been an American tradition for more than fifty years.

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Now it's up to you to help pass it on.

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Ensure its future with a donation today.

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在《Radiolab》，我们最喜欢的就是沉迷于科学、神经科学和化学。

At Radiolab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry.

但我们确实也喜欢讲述其他类型的故事，比如关于警务或政治的故事。

But but we do also like to get into other kinds of stories, stories about policing or Politics.

乡村音乐。

Country music.

冰球。

Hockey.

昆虫的性别。

Sex of bugs.

无论我们关注的是科学还是非科学，我们都以严谨的好奇心为您寻找答案。

Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers.

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Wherever you get your podcasts.

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I think it's almost inevitable that ordinary people are gonna end up subsidizing the wealthiest industry in the world.

在最新一期的《Planet Money》播客中，探讨了数据中心如何可能窃取你的电费。

On the latest Planet Money podcast, how data centers might be hijacking your electric bill.

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在NPR的《Wild Card》播客中，库梅尔·南贾尼谈到了他与妻子的创意合作。

On NPR's Wild Card podcast, Kumail Nanjiani talks about his creative collaboration with his wife.

我和艾米丽之间良好合作的关键在于，我们会一起写作。

What makes a good partnership between me and Emily is that, you know, we write together.

我们会收到高管的建议，而我总是说：我们把所有建议都采纳吧。

We get notes from executives, And I'm always the one who's like, let's do them all.

而她却说：我们一个都不采纳。

And she's like, let's do none of them.

请在NPR应用或YouTube上的NPR Wildcard频道观看或收听这场Wild Card对话。

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好的。

Okay.

所以你发起了这些麻将之夜，人们聚在一起玩这个游戏。

So you started these mahjong nights where people are coming together and playing the game.

进行得怎么样？

How have they been going?

太有趣了。

They're so fun.

我想我是2022年才开始举办这些活动的。

I think 2022 is when I first started hosting them.

在那之前，我参加过一些麻将之夜。

I attended some Mahjong Nights before that.

能去某个地方玩麻将，这个想法让我很兴奋。

The idea that that you could go somewhere and play was exciting.

刚开始时，作为那个解释游戏规则的人，感觉挺有趣又有点奇怪，因为那时我总觉得自己的能力不够，有冒名顶替综合症。

It was fun and kind of strange at first to be the person who was explaining the game because that when I started off, it felt very impostor syndrome.

你是个新手。

You're a newbie.

是啊。

Yeah.

一个新手。

A newbie.

我当时想，我真的会玩吗？

And I was like, oh, do I even know how to do this?

所以，为了我自己，我制作了一些参考资料，这些资料也成了我书中内容的早期雏形，比如一些有用的图示。

And so I actually, for my own benefit, created some reference guides and which also kind of were the early stages of the things that are in my book of just, like, helpful diagrams.

我无法仅靠自己的记忆来解释规则。

I couldn't rely on my own memory to explain it.

我想，如果我画出这张图，我就可以一直看着自己的图来理解。

I was like, if I make this picture, then I will just keep looking at my own picture of this thing.

这真是一种非常动手实践的游戏。

It's just such a it's a really tactile game.

这非常富有感官体验。

It's very sensory.

瓷砖混合时 shuffled 的声音，咔嗒声。

The sound of the tiles mix being shuffled together, the clacking.

人们说那咔嗒作响的瓷砖。

People say that the clacking tiles.

这让人感到满足。

That is satisfying.

这真的很有趣。

It's really fun.

触摸它们并把它们混在一起很有趣。

It's fun to touch them and mix them up.

你坐在一张桌子旁，或者理想情况下是张方桌。

You you sit at a table or, you know, it's a square table ideally.

这样你就能面对另外三个人。

So you're facing three other people.

你知道，有些人你可能不认识，有些人你可能是久别重逢。

You know, some who you might not know, some who maybe you're catching up with.

这真是一次难得的机会，能专门花时间专心玩一场游戏。

It's just such of an opportunity to kind of have that dedicated time where you are just playing a game.

我从来没玩过麻将。

I've never played Mahjong.

直到我看了《疯狂的亚洲富豪》，我才意识到我之前对麻将的理解是错的。

It wasn't until I saw Crazy Rich Asians that I realized what I interpreted as mahjong was incorrect.

因为作为九十年代长大的孩子，我玩的是电脑上的麻将游戏，那其实只是一个匹配类游戏。

Because as like a nineties kid, I would play the computer game of mahjong, which is just like you like a matching game.

没错。

Exactly.

说实话，我第一次接触麻将可能也是通过那个电脑游戏，因为我小时候并没有真正玩过。

To be honest, that's probably my first interaction with mahjong also was that computer game because I didn't actually grow up playing.

因为当我的父母从新西兰搬到美国后，他们其实并不玩麻将。

Because when my parents moved to, The United States from New Zealand, they didn't play really.

他们带来了他们的麻将牌具和牌块，但我们没玩。

They brought their their mahjong set and their tiles, but we didn't play.

所以我也是这种情况，我觉得《疯狂的亚洲富豪》让这个游戏重新回到了人们的文化记忆中。

So I was in the same boat, and I think Crazy Rich Rich Asians kind of, like, brought the game back into the the cultural memory a a bit.

我妈妈教我怎么玩。

My mom taught me how to play.

她告诉我，麻将能教会我重要的生活技能。

She told me Mahjong would teach me important life skills.

谈判、策略、合作。

Negotiation, strategy, cooperation.

那么，是什么促使你真正静下心来深入研究麻将，并写出这本书呢？

So what was the the impetus for you to really just hunker down and get into Mahjong and make this book?

我认为，有很多传统，人们总觉得应该把知识或传统的传承交给父母或祖父母。

I think there's a lot of traditions that people feel that we just defer to perhaps our parents or grandparents on being the keepers of that the knowledge or the tradition.

人们会想到食物、烹饪、特殊的家庭食谱。

People think about food, cooking, special family recipes.

对于这样的事情，我觉得我突然有了一个念头：哦，这就是我想去挑战的事情。

For something like this, I think I just had the moment where I was like, oh, this is the thing that I wanna bite off.

这促使我花时间去问父母问题，创建了一个真实的Google文档，开始写下清晰的步骤。

And that just motivated me to take the time to ask my parents questions, to make a literal Google doc, just start writing down very clear directions.

但后来，尤其是疫情发生时，我更加思考：我们家人还能再聚在一起打麻将吗？

But then, especially, I was thinking about this when the pandemic happened even more so I was thinking, will our family ever get together again and be able to play mahjong?

如果我想教我的丈夫和朋友，我根本缺乏这方面的知识。

And if I wanna be able to teach my husband and friends, I just don't have that literacy.

所以我只是紧紧抓住了这一件事。

So I just kinda hung on to that one thing.

我不懂中文。

I don't speak Chinese.

我不会读中文。

I don't read Chinese.

玩着这个与我的家庭如此紧密关联的游戏，却觉得自己完全不会，这种感觉真的很糟糕。

It felt really bad to to be playing this game that I had associated with my family so much and then feel like it was not something I knew how to do at all.

所以，你知道，我那点好胜心让我想学会玩这个游戏。

And so, you know, that little competitive side of me, it's like, wanna be able to play this game.

我想继续和朋友们一起玩这个游戏。

I wanna be able to keep playing this game with friends.

然后我担心，如果我不花时间去学习我家人的玩法，也许我就永远学不会了。

And then I had this fear that if I don't actually take the time to learn how to play the way that my family plays, then maybe I just never will.

这些玩法可能会就此失传。

It'll just get lost.

这些理由足够让我下定决心去做了。

Those things were compelling enough for me to just like do it.

你的家人在向你解释麻将时有耐心吗？

Was your family patient with you while trying to explain mahjong to you?

因为我在读你的书时，立刻想起了我家学打斯派德牌的经历。

Because while I was reading your book, it immediately reminded me of in my family learning how to play spades.

我不是个好胜的人，而斯派德牌是个非常竞争性的游戏，但我的表亲们都不肯耐心教我。

I'm not a competitive person and spades is a very competitive game and none of my cousins would politely explain the game to me.

我就想，让我来玩一玩。

And I was like, let me play it.

我自己会弄明白的。

I'll figure it out.

让我试试。

Let me do it.

然后嗯。

And then Uh-huh.

我全程都被训斥。

I got berated the whole time.

比如，你怎么连这个都不知道？

Like, why don't you know this?

我当时就想，因为没人教过我啊。

Like, I was like, because no one taught me.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

这就像是，如果你没法学习，你该怎么知道怎么做呢？

It's like, how are you supposed to know how to do something if you can't learn it?

当我最初跟我父母谈这件事时，他们说，哦，你只要多练就行了。

When I when I talked to my parents initially about this, they're like, oh, well, you just have to play more.

我当时就说，但如果我不知道怎么练，我又怎么多练呢？

And I was like, well, I can't play more if I don't know how to play.

我认为这正是所谓的困境：如果你根本没有能力吸收，又该如何承接这些传统并将其传承下去呢？

And I think that's exactly the conundrum of just saying, like, how do you take on those traditions and how do you carry them forward if you don't actually have that ability to absorb it?

那么我的父母有耐心吗？

And so are my parents patient?

我觉得是的，他们很有耐心。

I think, yes, they're patient.

我也认为我自己很有毅力。

I also think that I am persistent.

是的。

Yeah.

当你收集不同人玩麻将的方式时，你从中学到了什么？

While you were collecting different people's versions of of mahjong, what did you learn from that?

是的。

Yeah.

太多了。

So much.

麻将有40多种玩法。

There's over 40 styles of playing mahjong.

我特别感兴趣的是那些很少被写下来、或者我在图书馆或其他地方找不到的书籍中未曾提及的玩法。

I was really interested in the styles that I didn't see written down much or hadn't been represented in other books that I could find at the library or what have you.

所以我特别关注亚洲侨民群体中的各种玩法。

So I really like to focus on styles within the Asian diaspora.

这也反映了来参加我活动的人们，他们有机会深入探讨麻将的具体细节，比如不同的出牌方式，或者使用的牌数差异。

That's also representative of folks who are coming to my events and getting the chance to just, one, nerd out about the specifics of the game of, like, the different moves you could make or the different number of tiles that you would play with.

而且还能和人们交谈，听他们讲述家族故事。

And then also just getting to talk to people and hearing about their family stories.

当你开始谈论麻将的玩法时，就会发现，哦，这很有趣。

You start talking about mahjong of how you play and then it's like, oh, well, that's interesting.

你的家人是来自香港的吗？这影响了你的麻将玩法吗？

Is your family from Hong Kong that influences your mahjong playing style?

很多人甚至不知道自己是如何学会打麻将的，也不知道自己玩的是哪种风格。

A lot of people wouldn't even know they would know how they were taught how to play, but they didn't know what style it was.

因此，能够帮助丰富这方面的学术研究，真的很棒，是的。

And so that's something that's been cool to help add to the scholarship Yeah.

整理相关资源。

Hashong resources.

我很好奇，能不能举个例子，说明某种麻将玩法与另一种玩法的具体差异？

I I am curious, like, what, like, a a specific thing from a version of mahjong that differs from another, if you could, give an example of that?

当然。

Sure.

是的。

Yeah.

我学打麻将的方式是，一开始会发13张牌。

So the way that I, learned how to play mahjong, you are initially dealt 13 tiles.

台湾风格的麻将通常手上有16张牌。

There's Taiwanese style mahjong, which typically is played with 16 tiles in your hand.

所以多出三张牌。

So an extra three tiles.

这就像是，你知道的，而且我从未找到过确切的原因，但这就是大家的做法。

So that's just like, you know and again, it's I never I never found the exact reason for that, but that is that is the way that it's done.

值得一提的是，在美国非常流行的美式麻将。

Worth mentioning American style mahjong here in The US, which is very popular.

尴尬。

Embarrassing.

比如，美式麻将是不是简直大逆不道？

Like, is there an American is the American version just like blasphemous?

我认为美国风格的麻将自20世纪30年代以来就一直存在。

I think the American style, it's been around since the nineteen thirties.

它与中国风格的麻将非常不同，因为它需要一张卡片，这是它最显著的特点。

It is quite distinct from the Chinese style game in that it requires, like, a card that's kind of, like, the most distinct part of it.

这是一张每年都会发行的特定印刷卡片。

It's like a specific printed card that's issued every year.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你会听到一些非华人、非亚裔的人说，他们从小就开始玩这个游戏。

You'll hear people saying who are not Chinese, not Asian, who might say that they grew up playing the game as well.

美国风格的麻将历史上与犹太裔美国社区密切相关。

The American style has historically been associated with Jewish American communities.

它有着悠久的历史，

There's, like, a long history of

好的。

Okay.

我为这个故事的一位编辑，她说她小时候一直以为这是犹太人的游戏，因为她的祖母总是在玩。

My one of my editors for the story, she was like, growing up, I just always thought this was a Jewish game because her grandmother was always playing it.

对。

Right.

这很有趣。

So that's interesting.

对吧？

Right?

所以，你觉得这不是很有趣吗？你原本以为这只是一种犹太传统，但这个游戏上面却有中文字符。

So and isn't that interesting that you're like, oh, I thought that to think that it was just a Jewish tradition when it is like a game that has Chinese characters on it.

我也是这么想的。

That's what I was like.

我当时想，等等。

I was like, wait.

你看到这些中文字符了吗？

You see these Chinese characters?

你就会觉得，这明显是个犹太游戏，对吧。

You're like, this is clearly a Jewish Yeah.

游戏。

Game.

好吧。

Okay.

我想简单跟你聊聊它的历史。

I wanna briefly get into the history with you.

你写过，在一百年前的美国，麻将风靡一时，人们争相购买麻将游戏。

And you wrote that a hundred years ago in The US, Mahjong went viral and people were buying Mahjong games left and right.

你能跟我们讲讲这段历史吗？它是怎么在旧金山被引入的？

Can you tell us about that history and how the game was introduced in San Francisco?

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

当我阅读这段历史时，我的工作突然停了下来。

When I was reading about this history, my job kinda dropped.

事情是这样的：在19世纪末，当中国逐渐向西方人开放时，开始出现更多的交流与流动。

What happened was that in the late eighteen hundreds when China is becoming more open to Westerners, that is when there started to be some more exchange and flow.

当时在上海和北京有一个外籍人士社区。

There was like an expat community in Shanghai and Beijing.

所以人们学会了麻将。

So people learned mahjong.

尤其有一位商人，他会说中文，因此能够学会这个游戏，并意识到这是一个将麻将广泛出口的商业机会。

There was a businessman in particular who he spoke Chinese and so was able to learn the game and saw it really as a business opportunity to export the game more broadly.

这发生在20世纪初，但直到几十年后，这位商人才有意识地将麻将引入西方世界，特别是英语国家，他编写了第一本英文麻将玩法手册，并开始生产并出口麻将套装到美国。

And so this was in the early nineteen hundreds, but it wasn't until a couple decades later that, this businessman was very intentional about bringing the game to the Western world, the English speaking world, and started to write the first manual for how to play mahjong in the English language and then start to have set mahjong sets produced and exported to The United States.

因此，在20世纪20年代，人们有意识地努力推广这款游戏。

So in the nineteen twenties, there were it was like a very intentional effort to spread the game.

他们让好莱坞明星玩麻将并拍照。

They were having Hollywood movie stars play the game and being photographed.

麻将被宣传为一种非常古老的游戏中，大量利用了当时普遍存在的对中华文化的东方主义和种族主义刻板印象。

Mahjong was being marketed as this very ancient game that was really leaning on some orientalist and racist stereotypes of Chinese culture, very common at the time.

因此，人们将麻将描绘成一种异域风情、外国文化的游戏，并宣称这是你接触并掌握来自东方游戏的机会。

And so playing on this game as being something exotic and something foreign and here's your chance to play it and master this game from the Orient.

直到麻将在中国以外地区流行起来后，中国才开始更多地将其视为一种文化认同。

It wasn't until Mahjong became more popular outside of China that China started to embrace it more as, like, a cultural identifier.

一些华裔美国人从这场麻将热潮中受益。

There were Chinese Americans who were benefiting from this mainstream craze of Mahjong.

他们在教授麻将。

They're teaching.

他们在获得工作。

They're getting jobs.

也有一些白人穿着亚洲服饰来教授麻将。

There are also white people who were dressing up in Asian garb and teaching mahjong.

举办的游戏之夜就像是亚洲主题派对。

Game nights being held where it'd be like Asian themed parties.

对吧？

Right?

你以为这在促进外交，但角落里也发生了一些微妙的、与我们无关的阴暗事。

You think it's creating diplomacy, but it also, there's like a slightly sinister thing happened in the corner that's none of our business.

是的。

Yeah.

我听你提到，写这本书的灵感来自食谱。

I've heard you describe the inspiration for you to write this book being like inspired by cookbooks.

我想让你稍微展开说说这一点。

And I wanted you to expand upon that a little bit.

当然。

Definitely.

当我想到这就像一本食谱时，感觉非常安心，因为起初我建了一个网站和一个Instagram账号，这样我就安全地待在我的网络小圈子里，只是说：‘哦，是的。’

It was really comforting when I thought about how this is like a cookbook because at first I had made a website, and an Instagram account so that I felt safe in my bubble, my internet bubble of just saying, oh, yeah.

这只是互联网上的一小部分，我用它来聊聊我家人的游戏方式。

This is just a little piece of the internet that I'm using to to just talk about the way that my family plays.

当我想到要写一本关于这个的书时，我有点紧张，因为我的游戏经验不如其他人多。

With the idea of writing a book about it, I got a little nervous because I have not played as much as other people.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，一方面，我需要教那些对麻将一无所知的人怎么玩；另一方面，我也要接受这只是麻将的一种玩法，这让我感到困惑。

So in terms of, like, being the best player there is and then now being the person who gets to write a book about it, figuring out how to both instruct people who don't have any context on how to play, but then also be open to the idea that this is just one way of playing mahjong Yeah.

这很让人困惑。

Was confusing.

当我想到食谱时，这真的很有帮助，因为当我看食谱时，我并不会觉得这个人是在说这是做意大利面的唯一方法。

And so when I thought about cookbooks, it was really helpful because I thought about how when I look at a recipe, I'm not thinking that this person is saying this is the only way to make spaghetti.

他们只是在分享自己的做法。

They are just providing their way of doing it.

所以我喜欢这种既能提供帮助、指导和实用内容，又能将我个人的故事，以及像零食指南或如何像长辈一样说俏皮话这类俏皮的附录，融入书中的想法。

So I like the idea of being able to be helpful and instructional and practical, but then also be able to infuse the book with my own personal narrative and with kind of cheeky back of the book stuff like a snack guide or how to trash talk like an elder.

就像一些有趣的小事，它们能很好地体现我所熟悉的、我和朋友们熟悉的，以及我在书籍研究过程中接触到的人们周围的这种文化。

Just like funny things that kinda help encapsulate the culture around it that I am familiar with, that my friends and I are familiar with and the people that I talked to through the book research.

我们都得接受阿姨培训。

We all need auntie training.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

我认为，为了让我们所有人都能提升自己，成为文化意义上的长辈和阿姨，而不仅仅是字面意义上的，我们有必要有意识地学习一些这些习俗。

I think in order for all of us to level up to be elders and aunties culturally, not just literally, but also, there are some of these practices that we have to be a little intentional about learning.

我真的很兴奋能完成这本书，因为它确实让我感受到一种代际的转变。

I think I'm really excited that I was able to do this book just because it really does feel like a generational transition.

我的祖父母都已去世。

My grandparents have all passed away.

我父母还健在。

My parents are around.

我现在有个孩子。

I have a kid now.

因此，能够花时间思考这种代际联系让我感到兴奋，麻将只是众多事物中的一种，但却是我可以贡献的一部分。

And so it's exciting to be able to spend time thinking about this, like, intergenerational connection and how mahjong is just one of many things, but something that I could contribute.

尼科尔，非常感谢你。

Nicole, thank you so much.

谢谢。

Thank you.

这就是我们的节目。

And that's our show.

你可以在Instagram上关注我们：NPR code switch。

You can follow us on Instagram at NPR code switch.

如果你更喜欢邮件，我们的邮箱是 codeswitch@NPR.org。

If email is more your thing, ours is codeswitch@NPR.org.

并在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台订阅本播客。

And subscribe to the podcast on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcast.

您也可以通过访问npr.org/codeswitchnewsletter订阅Code Switch通讯。

You can also subscribe to the code switch newsletter by going to npr.org/codeswitchnewsletter.

提醒一下，注册Code Switch Plus是支持Code Switch节目和更广泛公共媒体的好方法。

And just a reminder that signing up for code Switch Plus is a great way to support Code Switch the show and to support public media more broadly.

我不知道你有没有听说，我们现在正需要您的帮助。

I don't know if you heard, we could use your help right now.

而且您能免费收听每一集节目。

And you get to listen to every episode sponsor free.

所以请前往+.mpr.org/codeswitch了解更多信息。

So please go find out more at +.mpr.org/codeswitch.

本集节目由Xavier Lopez和Christina Kala制作。

This episode was produced by Xavier Lopez and Christina Kala.

本集由Dahlia Mortata和Leah Danella剪辑。

It was edited by Dahlia Mortata and Leah Danella.

如果我们不特别感谢整个Code Switch团队，那就太不够意思了。

And we will be remiss if we did not shout out the rest of the code twitch massive.

那就是Jess Kung和Braylon Williams。

That's Jess Kung and Braylon Williams.

实际上，没多少人

There's actually not that many people

本集中的其他所有人。

Everyone else in this episode.

至于我，我是吉恩·邓普西。

As for me, I'm Gene Dempsey.

我是BA·帕克。

I'm BA Parker.

大家保重啊。

Be easy, y'all.

多喝水。

Hydrate.

你可能听说过司美格鲁肽和其他GLP-1药物。

You may have heard of Ozempic and other GLP-one drugs.

它们无处不在，还得到了塞雷娜·威廉姆斯等名人的推荐。

They're everywhere and endorsed by the likes of Serena Williams.

对我来说，答案就是GLP-1药物。

For me, the answer was GLP-1s.

这个答案也意味着直到现在都需要每周注射一次。

That answer also meant a weekly injection until now.

两种新的GLP-1口服药即将上市。

Two new GLP-one pills are about to hit the market.

请在NPR应用或你收听播客的任何平台收听《Shortwave》。

Listen to Shortwave on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

在《我们爱过的书》本季 finale 中，我们将与四位在错误的地方寻找爱情的朋友共度时光。

On the season finale of Books We've Loved, we're hanging out with four friends looking for love in all the wrong places.

地方。

Places.

我们与《It's Been a Minute》的布列塔尼·卢斯一起重温特里·麦金利的《等待呼吸》。

We are revisiting Terry McMillan's waiting to exhale with Brittany Luce from it's been a minute.

您可以在NPR应用中的《NPR每日一书》播客频道，或您收听播客的任何平台找到《我们爱过的书》的所有剧集。

Find all episodes of books we've loved on NPR's book of the day podcast feed on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

NPR及以下信息的支持来自莱梅尔森基金会，该基金会致力于发挥发明与创新的力量，加速气候行动并改善全球人民的生活。

Support for NPR and the following message come from the Lemelson Foundation, working to harness the power of invention and innovation to accelerate climate action and improve lives around the world.

了解更多，请访问lemelson.org。

Learn more at lemelson.org.