特朗普进一步推进关闭教育部的计划

当特朗普总统提名琳达·麦克马洪连任教育部长时，这是他给她的主要指示。

When president Trump nominated Linda McMahon as secretary of education for a second term in office, this was his main directive to her.

我希望琳达能让自己失业。

I want Linda to put herself out of a job.

让自己失业。

Put herself out of a job.

实质上，就是解散美国教育部，而她似乎已准备好这么做。

In essence, dismantle the US Department of Education, and it seemed that she was ready to do that.

这是麦克马洪三月份在福克斯新闻上的发言。

Here's McMahon on Fox News in March.

我们需要这个部门吗？

Do we need this department?

不需要。

No.

我们不需要。

We don't.

尽管此类行动需要国会批准，但特朗普政府本周公布了一项计划，通过将教育部的各项职能拆分并重新分配给劳工部和国务院等部门，完全绕过这一程序。

And while such an action would need congressional approval, the Trump administration this week unveiled a plan to sidestep that altogether by breaking off and redistributing the education department's various roles and duties to departments like labor and state.

该计划在本周由教育部政策与项目副幕僚长林赛·伯克主持的新闻发布会上进行了说明。

The plan was described this week in a press conference led by Lindsey Burke, the deputy chief of staff for policy and programs at the education department.

她恰好也是'2025计划'第11章的作者，该章节详细阐述了以这种方式解散她目前工作部门的方案。

She also happens to be author of chapter 11 of project twenty twenty five, which outlined a plan to dismantle her current workplace in exactly this way.

伯克和麦克马洪表示，这项计划旨在将权力归还给各州和家长，但对于美国公立教育体系的学生而言，这意味着什么？

Consider this, Burke and McMahon say this plan is about giving power back to the states and parents, but what will it mean for students in America's public education system?

这里是NPR的胡安娜·萨默斯。

From NPR, I'm Juana Summers.

这里是NPR的《深思熟虑》节目。

It's Consider This from NPR.

特朗普政府正着手使美国教育部变得无足轻重。

The Trump administration is moving to make the US Department of Education irrelevant.

本周，政府宣布将把多项职责重新分配给其他联邦政府机构。

This week, it announced it would be redistributing several of its responsibilities to other federal government agencies.

约翰·金曾担任奥巴马政府的教育部长，他与我讨论了这些变化可能带来的影响。

John King was education secretary in the Obama administration, and he joined me to talk about what these changes could mean.

政府提出这一变革的主要论点之一是，他们认为美国学生在疫情后表现不佳。

One of the administration's main arguments for making this change is they say American students are floundering after the pandemic.

我们看到美国学生仍在数学和阅读等科目上挣扎。

We see that American students still struggle with things like math and reading.

这难道不能成为需要改革、尝试新方法的理由吗？

Couldn't that be an argument that it's time to shake it up, try something new?

我认为这恰恰说明需要集中精力。

It's an argument I think for focus.

这种将部门职能分散到不同机构的做法毫无章法，与集中精力背道而驰。

And this move of offices from the department to different agencies in an incoherent fashion is the opposite of focus.

这是一种干扰。

It's a distraction.

我们应该专注于诸如高强度优质辅导等已被证实能帮助学生进步的措施。

We should be focused on things like intensive high quality tutoring, which we know helps students make up ground.

我们应当专注于吸引并留住最优秀的教师，然而政府却在削减支持教师培养的项目。

We should be focused on trying to attract and retain the best possible teachers, and yet the administration is cutting programs that support teacher preparation.

所以，对于这场非常紧迫的危机，这是错误的应对方式。

So, this is the wrong approach to what really is a very urgent crisis.

我们当前的表现还不如疫情前的水平。

Our performance today is below where it was before COVID.

我们应该做得更多，而不是更少。

We should be doing more, not less.

现任教育部长琳达·麦克马洪辩称这些措施实际上会提高效率并改善服务。

Current education secretary Linda McMahon makes the argument that these meals will actually make things more efficient and will improve services.

听起来你并不同意这种说法。

It sounds like that is not something you agree with.

哦，你看。

Oh, look.

学校、学区、高等教育机构甚至不知道该联系谁，这会造成很大混乱。

It's gonna be very confusing for schools, school districts, higher ed institutions to even know who to call.

他们早期的一项举措是将部分职业与技术教育项目转移到劳工部，现有证据表明这延缓了资金发放速度，给教育工作者带来了更多困惑。

The early evidence from one of their moves, was to move some career and technical education programming over to the Department of Labor, is that it has slowed the distribution of money and made things more confusing for educators.

这毫无帮助。

It's not helping.

我想请教您关于上周宣布的一项具体变更。

I wanna ask you about one specific change that was announced last week.

这项决定是由劳工部负责管理第一条款资金——这笔资金本是用于帮助学校支持低收入学生。

It was the decision to put the Labor Department in charge of managing title one funding, which of course is money that helps school support low income students.

如果资金仍然到位，请帮我们理解为何更换发放部门会造成影响。

If the money is still available, help us understand why it matters if there's a different department distributing it.

你需要参与资金分配的人员真正理解这个项目，明白这些资金将如何使用。

Well, you want folks involved in the distribution of the money who understand the program, who understand how the dollars are going to be used.

他们需要能够为学区和学校提供关于国会制定规则的指导，并确保资金得到负责任的使用。

You want them to be able to help provide guidance to school districts and schools about what the rules are that Congress has set up, and to make sure that the dollars are responsibly used.

将这项工作转交给一个毫无K12教育经验的机构，只会增加学区得不到所需帮助、最弱势学生无法获得资金的风险。

Moving this over to another agency that has no experience in K 12 is only adding risk that the school districts won't have the help they need and that dollars won't reach the most vulnerable students.

并非教育部的所有职能都将转移至其他机构。

Not every function of the education department is moving to another agency.

诸如公民权利、特殊教育及学生贷款等事务仍将保留在教育部门内。

Things like civil rights, special education, and student loans are all going to stay within the education department.

请谈谈您对将这些职能保留在教育部门而非转移至他处的决策有何看法。

Give us your sense of what you make of the decision to keep those in the education department rather than moving them elsewhere.

目前很难判断这是否只是他们瓦解该部门的下一步行动，之后还会采取其他措施。

Well, at this point, it's hard to know if this is just a next step in their effort to dismantle the department and they'll come back with other moves.

要知道，我认为他们这样做是在试图规避法律。

You know, think they're trying to navigate violating the law as they do this.

对吧？

Right?

他们的做法与国会的初衷背道而驰。

They are doing the opposite of what congress has set out.

国会当初成立了教育部。

Congress created the education department.

国会为教育部拨了款。

Congress appropriated funds to the education department.

他们正试图绕过这一点。

They're trying to get around that.

我希望法院能介入，也希望国会能干预。

I hope that the courts will intervene, and I hope that congress will intervene.

您目前的职位是纽约州立大学校长，这当然是一个庞大的高等教育体系。

Your current role is as chancellor of the State University of New York, which is of course a huge system of higher education.

您如何看待这些举措对全国高校的影响？

How do you see these moves affecting the nation's colleges and universities?

有趣的是，这些初步举措主要针对的是教育部核心高等教育职能之外的领域，比如管理联邦财政援助系统。

Well, interestingly, these initial moves have mostly focused out side of the core higher education functions of the department, like administering the federal financial aid system.

但在过去几个月里，教育部的员工数量已减半。

But over the last several months, the department staff has been cut in half.

有人试图削减佩尔助学金计划，这对低收入学生接受高等教育至关重要。

There are efforts to cut the Pell Grant program, which is crucial for providing access to higher education for low income students.

他们取消了提供关键学生支持的资助项目。

They have cancelled grant programs that provide critical student supports.

要知道，在纽约州立大学系统，我们视自己为社会流动的引擎，为人们提供通往中产阶级的途径。

Know, at SUNY we we see ourselves as an engine of social mobility where we're providing folks with a pathway to the middle class.

但这些正被教育部实施的削减措施所破坏。

But that's being undermined by the cuts that the department is making.

因此，除了这些行政变更外，他们至今还推行着一种真正试图削弱高等教育的议程，这对我们的国家经济或国家安全毫无意义。

So in addition to these administrative changes, they also so far have had an agenda of really trying to undermine higher education, which makes no sense for our national economy or our national security.

你从教育界的同事和其他领导者那里听到了什么关于这可能对国家学生产生的影响？

What do you hear from your colleagues, other leaders in education about what impact this might have on the nation's students?

嗯，人们非常担忧。

Well, people are very worried.

他们已经看到了民权办公室被解散的后果。

They already are seeing the consequences of the dismantling of the office for civil rights.

地区办公室已被关闭。

Regional offices have been closed.

员工已被解雇。

People have been laid off.

因此，如果你是种族、性别或残疾歧视的受害者，你将无处申诉。

And so if you are a victim of discrimination on the basis of race or sex or disability, you don't have anywhere to go.

教育部民权办公室收到的大量投诉来自残障儿童家庭，这些孩子未能获得应享有的服务。

A large share of the complaints that come to the education department's office for civil rights come from families of kids with disabilities who aren't getting the services they're entitled to.

由于民权办公室人手不足，这些投诉得不到处理。

Without the office for civil rights having adequate staff, those complaints go unaddressed.

这些学生因此无法获得接受教育所需的支持服务。

And those students go without the services they need to access education.

在我看来这是不道德的，也违背了美国人的核心价值观——为所有人提供机会的信念。

That is immoral from my perspective and counter to who we are as Americans and what we believe about giving everyone opportunity.

显然，这个国家尚未实现优质公共教育资源的平等分配。

It's clear that access to a strong public education isn't equal in this country.

如果这不是改善美国学生处境的正确方式，那么什么才是？

If this is not the right way to improve things for American students, what is?

听着，我很希望能看到对教师培训、课后辅导、课外活动以及早期儿童教育项目的投资，这样在困境中成长的孩子才能真正有机会。

Look, I would love to see things like investing in teacher training, tutoring, and after school programs, and early childhood programs, so that kids growing up in difficult circumstances have a real shot.

这意味着要加倍佩尔助学金，让更多中低收入美国人能够接受大学教育，获得好工作所需的技能。

It would mean doubling the Pell Grant and making it possible for more low and middle income Americans to get a college education and get the skills they need for good jobs.

我们确实需要一位总统和一个教育部，他们希望我们的学校成为世界一流的，而不是专注于将活动从一个机构转移到另一个机构。

We really need a president and an education department that want our schools to be the best in the world, not that are focused on shuffling activities from one agency to another.

我们一直在与约翰·B交谈。

We've been speaking with John B.

金，曾任奥巴马总统时期的教育部长。

King, former secretary of education under president Obama.

他目前担任纽约州立大学校长。

He is currently chancellor of the State University of New York.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

谢谢。

Thank you.

本期节目由劳伦·霍奇斯制作，音频工程由西蒙·拉斯洛·詹森和蒂芙尼·维拉卡斯特罗负责。

This episode was produced by Lauren Hodges with audio engineering by Simon Laszlo Janssen and Tiffany Veracastro.

由考特妮·多宁编辑。

It was edited by Courtney Dorning.

我们的执行制片人是萨米·叶尼甘。

Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

在结束之前，我们要感谢Consider This Plus的听众们，你们对NPR记者工作的支持让公共广播保持强大。

And before we go, thank you to our Consider This Plus listeners who support the work of NPR journalists and help keep public radio strong.

支持者还可以收听无赞助商信息的完整节目。

Supporters also hear every episode without messages from sponsors.

了解更多请访问+.npr.org。

Learn more at +.npr.org.

这里是NPR的《Consider This》节目。

It's Consider This from NPR.

我是胡安娜·萨默斯。

I'm Juana Summers.