170：西蒙娜·吉尔茨——工作流程现状

欢迎回到《工作流现状》节目。本次我的嘉宾是西蒙娜·叶赫。西蒙娜是一位发明家，多年前我首次在YouTube上看到她制作的那些真正狂野的项目，此后她创立了自己的产品工作室——叶赫工作室。我非常钦佩西蒙娜的工作成果，以及她如何清晰地传达她所创造的事物和她的兴趣所在。在本期节目中，我想跟随西蒙娜的旅程，了解她的一个想法如何变成实体物品。

Welcome back to State of the Workflow. My guest this time is Simone Yech. Simone is an inventor who I first came across many years ago making truly wild projects on YouTube, and she has since gone on to create her own product studio, Yech Studio. I really respect the work that Simone does and also how well she communicates, what she makes, and what she is interested in. On this episode, I wanted to follow Simone's journey for how one of her ideas becomes a physical thing.

我想探讨她将想法转化为现实所建立的系统和流程。真心希望你们喜欢这期节目。西蒙娜，首先我想问，你认为完成工作最重要的设备是什么？

I wanna look at the systems and the processes that she has in place to go from an idea to reality. I really hope you enjoy this episode. Simone, I wanna get started by asking, what do you consider to be the most important device that you use to get your work done?

虽然听起来有点无聊，但电脑确实难以替代。不过要说车间里的工具，我可能会选激光切割机，因为它非常适合快速原型制作。

I mean, it's hard to compete with a computer, as boring as that is. But in terms of tools in my workshop, I would probably say my laser cutter for, like, rapid prototyping.

比起电脑，我更想聊聊你的激光切割机

I'm more interested in talking about your laser cutter than your

是啊，我知道这个答案很无趣。你肯定在想‘好吧’。但如果真的只能选一样，那显然还是电脑。

Yeah. No. I figured it's it's such a boring answer. You're like, okay. But if I actually could only pick one thing, obviously, it would be my computer.

不过激光切割机或数控机床确实是我最常用的设备。

But, yeah, the laser cutter or the CNC is probably what I reach for the most.

为什么选择激光切割机？对于像我这样不太清楚具体用途的人来说，它比3D打印机好在哪里？

Why a laser cutter? Like, what makes that better than, say, like, three d printer or something for people like me who don't really know exactly what you would do with it?

3D打印机很棒，但根据机型不同，最终成品仍是塑料制品。而数控机床和激光切割机的优势在于可以用木材甚至金属制作物品。我的工作流程高度依赖CAD设计，经常建立项目CAD模型进行协作——特别是在产品开发阶段。我们会先用CAD建模，再用激光切割机或数控机床制作实体原型。很多创作者的流程截然不同，他们会直接用手工工具开始制作。

I mean, a three d printer is great, but the end product that you're gonna get, depending on your three d printer, is still gonna be plastic. Sure. And I don't like plastic things, but what's cool with the CNC and with the laser cutter is you can make things out of wood or even metal. I mean, my process is very CAD based, so I often will make CAD models of things or collaborate especially for when we're doing product development, I'll make CAD model of a project, and then we'll use the laser cutter or the CNC to make physical prototypes of it. I mean, a lot of people who build stuff have very different processes and will, like, start doing things with hand tools.

但对我来说，必须先在理论上完全推敲清楚，才会开始制作原型。

And for me, it's always like, no. I wanna figure it out first before I start prototyping.

我猜激光切割机这类设备的速度优势应该很有帮助。

I imagine there's a speed with something like a laser cutter that would be beneficial.

是的，当然。但我也是个极其擅长塑造灵魂的人，所以我不确定是否

Yeah. Sure. But I'm also an incredibly soul builder, so I don't know if

我能这么说。不会耽误你时间。没关系，我才是真正的瓶颈。是的。

I can say that. Not gonna hold you up. It's fine. I'm the real bottleneck. Yeah.

在深入探讨本期核心话题——你的工作流程之前，我想先让听众们了解一下Yetch Studio的背景。这是你创立并运营的店铺，当初为什么想做这个？是什么促使你决定经营自己的店铺？

So before we jump into the big topic of this episode, which is the deep dive on your workflow, I would like for our listeners to get a little bit of a background about Yetch Studio. So this is a store that you set up and that you run. Why did you want to do this? What was the thing that made you decide you wanted to run your own store?

这远不止是个店铺，所以我们把名称从Yacht Store改为Yacht Studio——因为我们设计所有产品，还拥有合作的工厂网络。我觉得这点非常重要，不想只是给现有产品贴标或卖印着我脸的周边，而是创造世界上本不存在的全新物件。至于为何要在YouTube频道之外开展产品业务，这个决定背后有很多考量。

It's more than a store, which is why we changed it from being called the Yacht Store to Yacht Studio because we design everything, and we have a factory networks that we use. I mean, that was one of the things that I thought was really important. I didn't want it to just be slapping logos on existing products or selling merch with my face on it. Like, I wanted us to actually make novel objects that don't exist in the world. The reason I wanted to start a product business on the side of my YouTube channel, there were a lot of different aspects that played into making that decision.

其一是想开辟一条脱离YouTube频道的出路。没错，你知道的，网红这行当...我意识到其实没有体面的退出方式。我就想，总不能做到60岁吧？我真正想做什么？

One of it was wanting to build a way out of doing a YouTube channel. Yep. You know, or, like, the influencer business, I realized there's not really, like, a graceful way to quit. And I was like, I don't wanna do this until I'm 60. What do I actually wanna do?

另外我也积累了不少项目创意，总觉得某些想法特别适合做成产品。所以算是有了个潜在产品的启动目录。但更重要的是，2018年我遭遇了严重的健康问题，这让我彻底反思网红生意的商业模式——毕竟所有事情都取决于你是否有能力工作。是的，我不想承受这种压力，无论是健康层面还是情绪层面。

And also having a body of work of, like, I have had a lot of projects that I'm like, oh, I think that this would really make sense as a product. So I had kind of a starting catalog of potential products. But then also, I mean, I was having really severe health problems in 2018, and that really made me rethink the business structure of running an influencer business because everything hinges on you being well enough to do work. Yep. And I don't wanna live with that pressure both from a health perspective, but also just from an emotional perspective.

比如说，我不想雇着30个员工，却要担心如果自己需要心理疗愈休假，他们可能会失业。这种状态根本不利于好好生活。所以我想，不如开创产品业务吧，听起来是个获得幸福的好方法。

Like, I don't wanna have 30 employees and knowing that if I need to go on a mental health break, for example, then they might lose their jobs. Like, that's just not conducive to a good life for me. So I thought, you know what? Let's start a product business. That sounds like a great way to be happy.

但我觉得任何关注YouTube文化的人都能看出，这种现象越来越普遍——所谓YouTuber建立的

But this is I think it's becoming evident to anybody who enjoys or pays attention to YouTube culture. This is becoming more and more prevalent of, like, what is the quote, unquote, real business that the YouTube has set up? I mean, we're seeing it all over, big and small. Like, people creating some kind of thing, whether it is a branded good to somebody else or something completely kind of created from the beginning. And as you mentioned, what you're doing is not create a merch by any stretch.

这些是专业人士打造的原创产品，绝非普通周边。

Like, these are real products made by people that know what they're doing, and they're original.

没错。

Yeah.

对吧？而且，虽然很有趣，但真的很难。

Right? And, like, it's fun, but it's really hard.

确实非常难。说实话，我当初坚决不想做成周边商品的原因之一，一方面是我不太感兴趣做周边，另一方面我希望它能独立于我存在。我希望客户群体不全是我的粉丝，这样就不会让整个事业仍然依赖于我个人和观众之间的关系。不过话说回来，我不得不承认我们目前最好的营销资源还是我自己。

It is it is very hard. And, I mean, one of the reasons I really didn't want it to be merch is, I mean, one thing, I'm not really interested in making merch, but also, I wanted it to be separate from me. Like, I wanted our customer base to not solely be fans of me because then I'm still just building this thing that depends on me and the, like, relationship you have with your audience. With that said, I have reluctantly realized that the best marketing asset we have is still me. Yeah.

最初我想的是，我不想出现在官网上。最多在'关于'页面提一句工作室由我支持，但它不是我个人的延伸。但后来我们意识到——我们拥有一位能生动讲解产品理念的创始人，这些产品都源自非常个人化的视角。这确实是我们可能具备的优势之一。

Because initially, I was like, I don't wanna be on the website. Like, I can be on the about page, and yet Studio is supported by me, but it's not an extension of me. But then we're like, no. We have a founder that can talk in a somewhat engaging way about the products, and it's coming from a very personal place. And that's one of the leg ups that we might have Yeah.

相比其他品牌。所以问题就变成：为什么不利用这个优势？而我的反应是：可我不想啊。我本来就想淡出公众视野的，这才是初衷。

Compared to other brands. So it's like, why would we not tap into that? And I'd be like, but I don't want to. I wanted to, like, decommission my face. That was the whole point.

不过现在程度轻多了。

It's less, though.

对吧？就像你担心的那种情况——如果你暂时无法参与怎么办？毕竟你们不像网红内容那样需要每周推出新产品。所以我完全理解你的意思。

Right? Like, when you're talking about the fear of, like, what if I can't be around for a while? Like, you're not launching new products on a weekly basis like you might Yeah. Have needed to do with with influencer content. So I totally understand what you mean.

看似又回到了原点，但本质上已经不同了。

Like, you end up back in that same spot, but it is a different spot.

不，确实不同。但这个认知过程挺有趣的——我本来想彻底摆脱这种模式，但如果这是为了能持续创作产品和运营设计工作室必须付出的代价，我很乐意接受。

No. It definitely is. But, yeah, it's been a funny realization where I was like, this was exactly what I wanted to get out of. But if that's the price I pay to get to make products and, like, run a design studio, then I'm happy to pay it.

我想完整了解一下YET Studio产品从无到有的诞生过程

So I wanna take a look at, start to finish, how YET Studio product becomes to

嗯。

be. Mhmm.

我认为一个很好的例子就是Coathinger，因为它涵盖了所有方面，甚至包括上Kickstarter众筹这类事情，虽然我知道并非你所有的产品都会这么做，但我觉得这大概能完整展现它的生命周期。不过总的来说，你的创意是从哪里来的？显然你是个非常有创造力的人，对各种事物都有想法。很多这些想法是所谓的‘坏机器人’，但显然你也有好产品的创意。

And I think a great example of this would be the Coathinger, because it touches on everything, even from, like, going to Kickstarter and stuff like that, which I know not all of your products would do, but so I feel like this will probably tell its entire life cycle. In general, though, where do your ideas come from? Obviously, you are a very creative person. You have ideas for all kinds of things. A lot of these ideas are quote unquote for bad robots, but also you obviously have ideas for good products.

这些想法通常是怎么产生的？

Where do these ideas tend to come from for you?

有趣的是，机器人和产品其实源于相同的问题起点——发现日常生活中的小不便，然后思考：我能不能用不同的方式解决？对机器人来说，我会想：解决这个问题最荒诞的方式是什么？而现在对Yacht Studio和我的YouTube频道，更多是思考：如何用前所未见的方式解决？老实说，很多时候我就是看着家里的物品想：我希望这个物品现在不具备的什么功能？

I mean, the funny thing is that the robots and the products kind of come from the same starting problem Yeah. Of finding little inconveniences in my everyday life and being like, how can I do this in a different way? And for robots, it was like, what's the most ridiculous way I can solve this problem? And then for Yacht Studio and for my YouTube channel now, it's more like, how can I solve this differently or in a way that I haven't seen before? But, I mean, for me, a lot of it, honestly, is just looking at the objects in my house and being like, what do I wish that this object could do that it's not currently doing?

并尝试在不影响物品核心功能的前提下为日常用品增添功能。我的洗衣椅就是个很好的例子——我总把半脏的衣服堆在卧室椅子上。

And kind of trying to add functionality to everyday objects without taking away from their, like, core function. So I think a really good example of that is my laundry chair. So I would always have half dirty clothes thrown on a chair in my bedroom.

谁不是呢？

Who doesn't?

这些衣服属于‘可以再穿一次’的状态：不该叠好放回抽屉（否则会有异味），但又没脏到要扔进洗衣篮。堆在椅子上很乱，于是我想：与其设计给‘椅子上永远没衣服’的理想状态，不如为常态设计。后来我做了把带旋转挂衣架的椅子，衣服挂上去后可以推回椅背——这就是把卧室碍眼的东西转化成设计。

And it's like the clothes that are they're supposed to be there because I could wear this t shirt another time. I should not fold these pants and put them back into the drawer because then they'll start getting stinky or whatever. Like but they're not dirty enough to go in the hamper, but it looks really messy to have them just thrown on a chair. And I really like the idea of, like, instead of designing for the perfect day where you have no clothes on your chair, like, design for the normal day. And instead of trying harder, just be like, oh, can I actually incorporate this into a piece of furniture design and make it not look messy?

最近我在考虑面包箱。直接做个普通面包箱很无聊，能不能让它有额外功能？比如附带切面包板？但这还不够——它能不能自动抹黄油？

So I made this chair that basically has, like, a lazy Susan rail that you can pull forward, hang those clothes on, and then kind of tuck it behind it. So that's just like looking at an eyesore in my bedroom and being like, oh, is there a way I can do this differently? And, I mean, I just started thinking I need a breadbox. And then I'm like, okay. Should I build a breadbox?

或者还能做其他什么事？

Like, that's a pretty boring project. I could just make a breadbox, but, like, could I make it do something differently or something extra? And they're, like, breadboxes that have, like, little cutting stations attached to them. Okay. But then, like, what else?

比如它还能当烤面包机用吗？

Does it also, like, put butter on your bread? Does it also do this other thing?

比如它还能当烤面包机？

Like Is it also a toaster?

哦，说实话，这主意不错。

Oh, honestly, not bad idea.

这就对了。

There you go.

可以设计成一体式的。基本上，你推出面包，切片，内置小刀，然后直接送进烤面包机。

It could be incorporated, like, all in one. So it's like, basically, you push the bread out, you cut it, and you have like a little built in knife, and then it just takes it to a toaster.

听起来完全没有火灾隐患呢。你这些点子平时都记在哪里？怎么保存？

That doesn't sound like a fire hazard at all. So when you have these ideas, where do you store them? Where do you keep them?

我手机里有份长长的清单。

I have a long list on my phone.

好吧。是记在备忘录之类的应用里吗？

Okay. So they go in, like, in the notes app or something?

我有个待办清单就叫'点子'，里面有127条记录。我滑到最下面看看最早的记录——2020年的，其实也不算太久

I just have a to do list called ideas. It has a 127 entries on it. Let me scroll down to the lowest one and see how long it's been there. Twenty twenty, so not that

远。

long Okay.

就是最早的一条了。

Is the oldest one.

你会让一个点子搁置多久？如果打算回头处理就会一直留着吗？还是说到某个时点就认定永远不会执行了？

How long would you allow an idea to kick around for? Will it stay there forever if you're gonna come back to it, or is there a point where you're like, I'm never gonna do this?

不，我保留着。我会把它们留在清单上，有时我会觉得，呃，这个想法或概念有点平庸，但我还是会记下来。然后两年后，我突然意识到，哦，其实这很棒。

No. I let it stay. I keep them on there, and sometimes I'll be like, ugh, that's kind of a mediocre idea or concept, and I'll put it on the list. And then two years later, I'm like, oh, actually, that's great.

那通常是什么情况？比如，如果你清单上有个想法，甚至是一个新冒出来的点子，是什么会让你觉得‘好，我要把它推进成一个产品’？就像我们可以看看Cohinger的例子。那个让你觉得‘我不只要做这个，还要让人们能购买它’的点子是什么？

What does that tend to be? Like, if you've got an idea on the list or even if it's like a new idea that you have, what is the thing that will be like, okay. I'm gonna progress this to be a product. So it's you know, we can look at Cohinger. Like, what about that idea where you were like, not only am I gonna make this, I'm gonna make it for people to buy it.

在这些想法中，是什么让你觉得‘对，这就是个产品’？

Like, what is the thing in those ideas that makes you feel like, yes, this is a product?

对于不知道Coat Hinger是什么的听众，它是一个能对折的衣架。你可以把衣服挂上去后对折，这样悬挂时占用的进深空间就减半。如果你有个很浅的衣柜或狭窄的走廊放不下普通衣帽架，这种设计就是用宽度换深度。

I mean, for those of you listening who don't know what the Coat Hinger is, it's a coat hanger that folds in half. So you can put your clothes on it and then fold it in half so that it hangs half of the distance from the walls. So if you have, like, a really shallow wardrobe or a narrow hallway where you can't fit a coat rack, This kind of you trade depth for width.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这个有点特殊，因为我一有这想法就看到了产品潜力。是的。我们在发布前没做任何宣传内容，因为我总觉得这是个很有力的创意，担心公开后会被别人抢先。但这种情况很少见，我当时想确保先申请专利再发布。

That one was a little bit different because as soon as I had the idea, I saw the product potential. Yep. And we didn't make any content about it until we released it. Because I was also like, I feel like this is a really powerful idea, and I'm worried that if I put it out in the world, somebody's gonna beat me to it. But that happens very rarely, and I, like, wanted to make sure I got a patent on it before releasing it.

不过通常流程是：我先做YouTube视频，然后观察项目反响和视频反馈——人们是否对这个作为产品感兴趣？之后才会放进我们的制造设计流程。但对折衣架不同，它感觉是切实可行的。当然实际制作比预想复杂得多。

But, usually, the way it happens is that I make a YouTube video, but then we also see the reception of the project and the YouTube project. And, like, are people interested in this as a product? And then we'll put it in our design for manufacturing pipeline. But for the coat hinder, you know, it it was something that felt achievable to make. Granted, it was a lot more complicated than I thought it would be.

但我觉得这就是那种‘哇我好爱这个’的东西，它确实解决了我自己的问题，也能帮到别人。我那时完全沉迷这个项目，记得刚开始就立刻拉上工程师Stu，整个圣诞节我们都在做各种版本反复调试。

But, yeah, I just thought it was one of those things where I was like, oh, I love these. It's really solving a problem for me, and I think it could solve problems for other people too. I was really obsessed with that project. I remember we started working on it, and I almost immediately roped in my engineer, Stu. And we worked on it over Christmas and just kept on making so many different versions and trying to figure it out.

就像脑子里钻进了一只执念的虫子，怎么也放不下。

So we were just really, it's almost like you get a brain bug and you can't let it go.

不过往往最好的东西都是这样诞生的。

They're usually the best things, though.

是啊。这是个既令人沮丧又充满乐趣的地方。我们花了三年时间打磨它才发布，这简直疯狂。

Yeah. It's a frustrating but enjoyable place to be in. And, yeah, we worked on it for three years before releasing it, which is wild.

当你们处于初期构思阶段，试图确定产品可能的外观时，我毫不怀疑你们直接进入了我想达到的设计层级。但在那之前，你们会寻找灵感来源吗？会翻阅书籍吗？会上网搜索吗？有没有固定的灵感来源地，还是更倾向于跟随内心和直觉去创作？

When you're in that kind of initial phase where you're trying to choose how you think it might look, I have no doubt that you jumped straight to a level of design, which I wanna get to. But before that stage, do you look for inspiration in things? Do you go through books? Do you go online? Do you have any kind of places that you look, or do you tend to go from your heart, your mind, like, you wanna do?

我偶尔会刷Pinterest，但感觉很少能找到有用的东西。是的，我肯定会浏览寻找设计线索。比如我做过一个机械水果碗的版本，现在正进行重新设计。这时就需要选择材料，确定造型和形态。

I will sometimes scroll through Pinterest, but I feel like that rarely leads anywhere. Yep. I'll definitely scroll for design cues. So for example, I made a version of a mechanical fruit bowl, and we're working on a redesign of it. And then it's like, I need to choose the materials for it and kind of the shape and the form.

面对这种情况，我就会想：天啊，我到底要它呈现什么样子？这时我肯定会刷图找灵感，但不会太关注产品创意——因为我希望做出来的东西是人们前所未见的。

And for that, I'll be like, oh gosh. What do I want this to look like? Right. And I'll definitely scroll for inspiration, but not so much for product ideas because, also, I want the things to be something that you haven't seen before.

嗯。

Yeah.

所以当我有创意后，就会去搜索确认：好吧，有人做过类似的东西吗？如果世界上已经存在这类产品，我就会失去兴趣。我确实有很多设计类书籍，拥有它们让我感觉自己很专业——虽然几乎从不翻开。

So once I have an idea, then I'll scroll and be like, okay. Has anybody else made something like this? And if it is something that already exists in the world, then I kind of lose interest. I do have a lot of design books. I really love having design books because it makes me feel like a professional, but I almost never open them.

它们只是在我书架上当摆设罢了。

They're just looking pretty on my shelf.

是啊。我有个装满设计书的小书柜，就像在说：看看我多专业。

Yeah. I have a small bookcase full of design books, and I'm like, look at me.

看看我。没错。除臭剂什么的，我可太懂了。

Look at me. Yeah. Deodorant. I know all about it.

那么当你开始设计流程时——嗯。具体是怎样的？是画草图吗？实际从哪个环节切入？

So when you begin the design process Mhmm. What is that? You sketching, like, where does it actually begin?

这取决于复杂程度，但通常流程是：我会先在笔记本上画个非常粗糙的草图，然后举到摄像头前和我的工程师斯图讨论。我们会开始探讨如何实现，特别是当我们要将其开发成产品时——因为涉及制造设计，他负责制作最终模型和所有工程文件。但他同时也是绝佳的点子打磨者，我称他为我的'岩石抛光器'，因为有时我抛出些很粗糙的想法，他能将其塑形完善，比如建议'这样改如何？'

So it depends on the complexity, but usually the way it will happen is I will make a really bad sketch in my notebook, and then I will hold it up to the webcam and talk it through with my engineer, Stu. And we will start trying to talk about how this is gonna work, especially if it's something that we're developing into a product because design for manufacturing, he's the one who makes the final models and all the engineering documents and everything. But he's also just an amazing refiner of ideas. I call him my rock tumbler because sometimes I'll I'll, like, throw out something really crude, and he molds it over. And he's like, what if we did it like this?

不过有些项目我会直接开始用材料打样。比如最近做的咖啡桌项目，我先构思了机械结构，然后用胶合板做了原型验证尺寸、高度和功能。根据这个原型，我把测量数据发给他，他就在Fusion 360里开始建模。

But then, I mean, for for some projects, I'll start sketching in materials. So I recently made a project that's a coffee table, and I kind of had an idea of the mechanism. And then I made a prototype in plywood just to kind of verify the measurements and the height of it and the way that it functioned. And then based on that, I sent measurements to him, and he started making a model in Fusion three sixty.

明白。

Okay.

这是我们用的CAD软件，之后我们会来回修改模型。

That's the CAD program that we use, and we'll pass it back and forth.

你会先自己动手做样品找感觉吗？即使是量产产品。在交给工厂打样前，你会先做个自己的版本对吗？你更倾向先有自制版本？

Would you try and build these things on your own first just so you can get a feel for them? Even the manufactured products. Like, you would have your own version before you would send them to a manufacturer for a sample. Like, you would prefer to have your own first.

通常流程是：我先做YouTube版本

So usually, the way it happens is that I make a YouTube version

嗯。

Yep.

完全由我独立制作，经常也独立设计。当我们觉得有产品化潜力时，斯图就会接手。我会发给他所有测量数据。

That I'll build on my own, often design on my own, and do everything. And then we're like, okay. This is product potential. Stu will take it. I'll send him measurements and everything.

他会建立Fusion 360模型，同时在他的工作室做出多个实体版本。然后我们提交认为的'黄金样品'并附上各种注意事项，比如制造工艺要求和全套工程文件，再发给工厂。这时就进入他们的环节了。我们会建议制造流程，与工厂协作确定方案。

He'll make a Fusion three sixty model and also multiple versions in his workshop. And then we present what we think is a golden article with a bunch of caveats. Like, this needs to be manufactured in this way and all the engineering documents, and we send that to the factory. And that's kinda when it's over to them. So we have suggested manufacturing processes, and it's a collaborative effort with your manufacturer or with your factory to be like, okay.

因为要根据工厂的设备来设计产品。他们拿到资料后会制作自己的版本寄给我们，我们评估测试后反馈修改意见，这样反复直到做出达标的产品。

What tools do you have? Because we're gonna design the product accordingly. And with that in mind, they take that, and they make their own version of it, send it to us. We evaluate it and test it and vet it, send feedback documents over to them, and then it's kind of back and forth until we have a product that we think is good enough.

与工厂合作的制造流程看起来极其复杂，我猜是这样。需要大量的数字化来回沟通。

The manufacturing process working with factories seems incredibly complicated, I'm assuming. A lot of back and forth digitally.

这非常依赖人际关系。

It's so relationship based.

是啊。

Yeah.

最神奇的是这本质上就是人脉网络。我们很幸运，因为团队成员Avis——她曾经是我的会计，现在是我们的制造主管——她来自香港但住在澳大利亚。她说：‘我家人就是做制造业的。’

That's the crazy thing is it's really networking. And, I mean, we're really lucky because one of our teammates, Avis, who actually used to be my accountant, she's now my head of manufacturing because she's from Hong Kong but lives in Australia. And she was like, yeah. My, like, family is in manufacturing.

你当时肯定想：你怎么不早说？确实。

You're like, why didn't you tell me this before? Yeah.

没错。她开始四处联系，自学了大量制造和供应链知识。我们合作几十家工厂，因为每个产品都需要多家工厂配合。她和工厂建立了关系，我们会和PL（产品负责人）共进晚餐处理事务。

No. Totally. And she just started asking around and has now taught herself so much about manufacturing and supply chains. I mean, we have dozens of factories that we work with because every product requires multiple factories. And she has relationships with them, and we'll, like, sit through dinners with our three PL and do all these things.

最初我们犯了个错误：把工厂当作研发部门。我们发项目过去，他们做出样品，然后我们反复修改设计。现在我们会先完全确定产品功能和外观，只对工厂的实现方式提反馈。

I think, initially, something that was tricky was that we kind of ended up using our factories as an r and d department. So we would send them a project, and then they would make versions of it. And then we would have a bunch of design changes that we would do. And now we try to make sure that we have the way that we want the product to function and look fully fleshed out. And then the only thing that we're feedbacking is how they've kind of brought that design to life.

他们不想当你们的测试员对吧？

They don't wanna be testing for you. Right?

当然。我们都是新手，当初不清楚设计该完成到什么程度。我总爱改变主意，动不动就说‘这样改如何？’现在明白了设计必须足够稳定。虽然总会想调整，但在让厂商打样前必须明确产品形态。

No. We're all spring chickens in this, so we weren't sure what, like, level of finished a design should be. And we would also keep on, like, I'm a chronic mind changer, so I'll just be like, oh, but what if we did it like this? But now we have a good grasp of, like, how stable the design needs to be. Granted, you always are gonna end up wanting changes, but, like, we really need to have a very clear idea of what we want the product to be before we ask a manufacturer to make a sample.

本期《Cortex》由Squarespace赞助——这个一体化网站平台能助你在网络脱颖而出。无论初创还是扩展业务，Squarespace提供域名注册、专业网站搭建、品牌推广和支付功能。其Blueprint AI建站工具可根据行业和目标快速生成定制网站。获奖模板让零基础用户也能打造精美设计。

This episode of Cortex is brought to you by Squarespace, the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just getting started or scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything that you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings of a professional website, grow your brand, and get paid all in one place. You can make the most of Blueprint AI, which is Squarespace's AI enhanced website builder to let you quickly and easily build a site bespoke to your business. You just input some basic information about your industry and goals, and we already know and love Squarespace for their professionally designed and award winning templates. So wherever you get started, you have beautiful design options with no experience required.

这绝对是我最喜欢的一点，也是我一直以来钟爱Squarespace的原因。他们为各类企业和网站设计了丰富模板，同时这些模板又具备惊人的无限定制性。无需经验，不要求编程基础，你只需通过拖拽操作，就能从精美的下拉菜单中调整字体、颜色、尺寸等所有元素。我太爱这个功能了。

This is easily my favorite thing and has always been my favorite thing about Squarespace. They have templates that are made for so many types of businesses or websites, but they're also incredibly, infinitely customizable. You can go in with no experience needed, no coding requirements. You can just go in, drag and drop, and change things that you need from wonderful drop downs, fonts, colors, sizing, everything. I love it.

当你的网站面向全球发布时，你自然希望它能被找到。没人愿意精心打造的网站无人问津。正因如此，Squarespace为每个网站优化元描述索引和自动生成站点地图等功能就显得尤为出色，这样人们就能通过搜索引擎结果发现你的网站。借助其集成的SEO工具套件，你的网站将更快被发掘。立即访问squarespace.com/cortex注册免费试用。

Once your website is available to the world, you want it to be found. Nobody wants to build a beautiful website for nobody to find it. So that is why it's awesome that Squarespace optimizes every website to be indexed in meta descriptions and auto generated site map and more so people will find your site through search engine results. You will be discovered faster with their suite of integrated SEO tools. Go to squarespace.com/cortex to sign up for a free trial.

当你准备正式上线时，使用优惠码cortex，首次购买网站或域名可享9折优惠。记住是squarespace.com/cortex，优惠码cortex。首单立减10%的同时，也是对本节目的支持。感谢Squarespace对本节目及整个Relay平台的支持。产品命名到底有多难？

When you're ready to launch, use the offer code cortex and you'll get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That is squarespace.com/cortex and the offer code cortex. You'll get 10% off your first purchase and show your support for the show. Thanks to Squarespace for the support of this show and all of Relay. How hard is product naming?

命名？天啊。通常不算太难，除了我最新发布的那款产品——一顶完全用魔术贴面料制成的棒球帽。我们当时就直接用了'Velcro（魔术贴）'这个词。

Naming? Oh my god. Usually not that hard except for the latest product that I released, which was a baseball cap that's made completely out of hook and loop fabric, so Velcro. We had Velcro. Yeah.

这事特别气人，所以我们管它叫'魔术贴帽'。所有包装上都印着'魔术贴帽'。结果不是我们的内容主管安娜嘛，就在准备上市的两周前，她突然说：'各位，我觉得Velcro是个注册商标'——我完全没考虑到这点。

And it's so infuriating, so we called it the Velcro cap. And all of our packaging says Velcro cap. And then it wasn't my head of content, Anna. There was, like, one day like, two weeks before we're gonna launch it, she's like, hey, you guys. I think Velcro's a trademark, and I had not thought about this.

我们所有人都没想到。当时就觉得：完蛋，居然犯这种低级错误。所以买到的人都会收到标着'魔术贴帽'的盒子，但请大家别去举报...

Or, like, none of us had thought about it. And it's like, oh my god. I can't believe that we walked into that. So anybody who bought one is gonna get a box that says Velcro cap, but please don't alert.

限量版呢。

Limited edition.

...别让魔术贴公司知道。这次命名特别棘手，因为我们通常要求产品名必须具有描述性。比如我们的其他产品：螺丝刀戒指，一听就知道是什么。

Velcro corporation to that. So that one was really tricky because it's like usually the names, we want them to be very descriptive or yeah. Like, all of our names are really descriptive. It's the screwdriver ring. Yep.

但对于这顶完全用魔术贴做的棒球帽，你能想到最具描述性的名字就是'魔术贴帽'了。

Like, you can get a pretty clear idea of what that is. But for that one, like, the most descriptive name you could give a baseball cap that's fully made out of Velcro is Velcro cap.

确实。

Yep.

我们每月都会举办这样的聚会，我询问了参与者希望这个产品被称为什么，收到了很多命名建议。但最终我定下了‘补丁帽’这个名字，这其实并不理想。它既没有解释产品是什么，也没说明其功能，我认为产品因此受到了影响。不过话说回来，名字终究只是个名字。

We do this meetup every month, and I pulled the attendees to see, like, what do you wanna see be called and, like, had a bunch of naming suggestions. But then what I settled on was patch cap, which is not a great name. It doesn't really explain what it is or what it does, and I think that the product has suffered because of it. But also, a name is also just a name.

是啊。某种程度上，名字就只是事物的代号。虽然听起来有点怪，但到了一定阶段，名字就不再重要了。比如当你讲清楚产品故事后，人们理解了它是什么，你叫它什么都行。当然，‘魔术贴帽’显然是那个产品的完美名字，这点毋庸置疑。

Yeah. At a certain point, the name is just the name of the thing. It's a weird phrase, but, like, at a certain point, the name doesn't matter anymore. Like, once you've gotten the story out and people understand what it is, you could call it anything. I mean, yes, Velcro cap is obviously the perfect name, right, for that product.

这事基本没什么争议空间，但你又不能真那么命名。

Like, there's kind of no two ways about it, but you can't do that.

没错。虽然名字确实是解释产品的方式之一，但你还有很多其他途径可以说明产品是什么，所以需要更侧重那些方式。

Yeah. And it is I mean, a name is is one of the ways you can explain what a product is. Yeah. But you have a lot of other ways that you can explain what the product is, so you just gotta lean more heavily on that.

在设计过程中，产品名称对你来说重要吗？比如你是否需要给物品起个名字才能让它感觉真实？

Is a product name important to you in design? Like, do you like to have a name for an item for it to feel real?

不重要。真的。

No. Not really.

不重要？对你来说无所谓吗？

No? It doesn't matter to you so much?

主要是内部沟通时需要个称呼。我觉得Yacht Studio的棘手之处在于，我们所有产品都很独特，功能超出预期，比其他产品需要更多解释。就像我提到的咖啡桌，它的特别之处在于机械结构能切换成脚凳。我一直叫它‘咖啡桌脚凳’，这名字确实不怎么样。

It's mostly just like, oh, what should we refer to this as internally? I think that's one of the tricky things with Yacht Studio is that all of our products, like, they're unique and do something that you don't expect them to do, and they require more explanation than a lot of other products. You know, like the coffee table I was mentioning, what's different about it is that it mechanically, you can switch between it being a coffee table and an ottoman. And I've just been calling it the coffee table ottoman, which is not a great name.

但这名字至少说明了功能，对吧？

And then it tells you what it does. You know?

算是吧。但问题在于，如何在名称里解释清楚？当用户访问主页只看到个小方块图片时，要怎么清晰地传达产品本质？某种程度上，我职业生涯的起点帮助了我——最初做机器人时，我只会制作GIF动图来展示。

Yeah. I mean, kind of. But it's like, yeah, how do you explain that in a name? And, like, as somebody who goes on your homepage and only sees a little square of it, then how do you explain what that is really clearly? And I think in some way, it's like the way I started my career has helped with that because initially, when I was making robots, I would just make GIFs.

当时的主要内容就是制作这台机器运作的GIF动图。这某种程度上训练了我如何打造一个既新颖又简单到能用五秒无声循环视频解释清楚的产品。

That was the, like, main piece of content was making a GIF of this machine working, And it kinda trained me to, like, how do you make a product that's novel but easy enough to explain that you can explain it in, like, five second looping video without audio?

这是个试金石。

That is a proving ground.

没错。我常提醒自己：没人会关心它是否支持蓝牙。产品必须足够新颖，但简单到一张GIF就能说明白。

Yeah. I think the thing I always tell myself is, like, nobody's gonna care that it also has Bluetooth. Like, it needs to be novel, but simple enough that a GIF could explain it.

我想和你聊聊Kickstarter。你发起过两次众筹对吧？一次是Mhmm（Goat Henju，我们聊过这个），另一次应该是你的首款产品——每日日历。

I would like to talk to you about Kickstarter. So you've done two Kickstarters, I think. One for Mhmm. The Goat Henju, which we spoke about, and then one, I think, for your first product, the everyday calendar.

嗯。

Mhmm.

为什么选择Kickstarter来发布产品？毕竟不是所有情况都适合。在哪些特定场景下你会觉得众筹是正确选择？

Why choose Kickstarter for a product when you don't always. So there are some instances where you feel like that is the right move. What makes you decide to go down that route?

对于首款产品（现在叫每日目标日历，说到命名问题），选择众筹很合理。因为那是我第一次创业，没有现成的产品制造体系，需要启动资金。而且这个日历生产成本很高，我根本无力独自承担库存费用。

So for the first product, the everyday calendar, now known as the everyday goal calendar, speaking of names, was I think it really made sense because it was the first one I was gonna do. I didn't have an existing infrastructure for making products, and I needed initial funding for it. It's also a really expensive product to make. So for me to kind of expense all the stock, like, I just didn't have the money to do it.

没人能凭空开始销售这种产品。这是个带电子元件的大尺寸日历框架——每天触碰日期数字就会亮灯，标记目标完成状态。从零起步根本不可能实现。

There's kind of no way that someone could go from zero to being able to sell that product. Like, it's a large frame size calendar that has electronics in it. Essentially, you would every day, you touch a day number, and it will illuminate to show that you've completed whatever it is your goal is. That's physically too large to just do.

是的，作为处女作确实野心太大了

Yeah. That's a very ambitious first product

确实。

Yep.

要启动项目。当时我并不明白这个想法有多雄心勃勃，但这就是新手的幸运之处。嗯。所以，我认为通过Kickstarter可能是唯一可行的方式。因为如果让我先完全开发完产品，再囤货销售，我根本做不到。

To launch. And I don't think I understood how ambitious it was, but which is, yeah, the blessing of being a novice. Mhmm. So, yeah, I I think for that was probably the only way I could do it was through Kickstarter. Because also just the thought of, like, fully developing this product to finish, but also buying up stock to then sell, and I there was just no way I would be able to do that.

而且从营销角度考虑，我觉得发起Kickstarter众筹更合适。这就是当时的想法。但做完那次之后，我发誓再也不搞Kickstarter了。虽然我们的支持者都非常友善和理解，但最终我们延迟了将近一年才交货。

And I also thought that from a marketing perspective, it's better to do a Kickstarter campaign. And that was kind of the thinking. So after I'd done that, I swore off ever doing Kickstarter campaigns again. Granted, like, our community was so sweet, and they were so understanding. I think we ended up being, like, a year late.

是的。不过延迟是有充分理由的。

Yep. But it was for good reason.

理由通常都说得通。大多数情况下理由都很正当。对吧？比如延迟交货这种事？

The reason's always okay. The reason's mostly good. Yeah. Right? Like, for being late?

当时面临的抉择是：要么准时交货但产品不够完善，要么延迟交货把产品做得更好。这确实怪我作为新手不自量力，接下了超出能力范围的事。

I think the choice that you're in is, yeah, we could ship on time, but we could ship a product that's not as good as it could be. Yeah. But, I mean, that was definitely my fault for being a beginner and having bitten off more that I could chew without realizing

但这本来就是Kickstarter平台存在的意义啊。

It's inherently the whole point of the platform, though.

我知道。我知道。可我还是觉得过意不去。

I know. I know. I know. But still, I feel bad about it.

关于创作者和支持者之间的问题——我觉得无论Kickstarter怎么努力，都改变不了人们把它单纯当作预售渠道的观念。

The issue of the creator and the backer of, like, I don't think it matters whatever Kickstarter will attempt to do. They will never be able to break the idea in people's heads that this is not just a preorder mechanism.

没错。所以那次之后我就决定再也不碰Kickstarter了。最让人焦虑的莫过于让支持者花了300美元，产品却迟迟不能交付，而且你还不完全确定最终能否成功。虽然把握很大，但万一有人把它挂在浴室里，或者出现其他意外情况呢？有很多问题是无法提前测试的。

Yeah. But then after I'd done that, I kinda swore off ever doing Kickstarter again because if there's anything that makes your anxiety go rampant, it's having people have paid $300 for a product that is running late and that you're still not fully sure it's gonna work. Like, you're pretty sure it's gonna work, but not fully sure it's gonna work. You know, what happens if somebody hangs it on the bathroom or does all these other things? Like, there's so much stuff you can't really test for.

我猜同时——不是要唤起你的焦虑——你也在不断投入资金对吧？毕竟众筹就是为了这个。但这也意味着钱花出去就收不回来了，虽然本来就不能退款，但人们心理上不是这么想的。

And I'm assuming at the same time, not to bring your anxiety back, but, like, you're spending the money. Right? Like, if you're going through this process because Yeah. That's part of why you raise it. But what that means is it's not returnable, essentially, which is the case anyway, but, again, it's, like, not how people feel.

不。要退还60万美元会让我破产的。

No. Having to return $600,000 would bankrupt me.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以，是的，这关乎重大利益。作为一个真心在乎又极度害怕让人失望的人，这种处境并不好受。但后来我们遇到了大衣挂钩的事，我又一次陷入同样的境地，当时我想，嗯...我们或许可以这么做。这款股票会贵因为产品本身成本就高。不过，我决定选择Kickstarter的另一个原因是，我觉得它是个更好的营销载体。

So, yeah, there there's a lot at stake, and as somebody who really, really cares and is terrified of disappointing people, it's not a nice position to be in. But then we had the coat hinder, and I was once again in the same position where I was like, yeah. We could kind of do this. The stock is gonna be expensive because it is an expensive product. But, also, I think the reason I decided to do Kickstarter was because I was like, I feel like it's the better marketing vehicle.

没错。

Yeah.

很多新闻媒体会报道Kickstarter和众筹项目，但他们不太会写'某人在商店发布了这个产品'这类新闻。

Like, a lot of news outlets will write about Kickstarter and crowdfunding campaigns, but they're not really gonna write about, oh, somebody released this product on a store.

这很奇怪对吧？

That's weird. Right?

是啊。

Was yeah.

这种现象确实很奇怪。我不太明白Kickstarter到底有什么魔力，能让人以其他平台得不到的报道热情来写它。

It is weird that that that happens. I'm not really sure what it is about Kickstarter that makes people wanna write about it in a way that they wouldn't in other ways.

某种程度上感觉更具新闻价值。

Feels more newsworthy in some way.

但为什么呢？

But why?

我我不知道。

I I don't know.

我认为事情已经变成这样，我们也有这种感觉。但我本质上不明白为什么这里有个东西你可以花钱买，或许还能得到。

I think it's become that, and we feel that way. But I don't understand inherently why here's a thing you could spend money on and maybe get.

是啊。

Yeah.

比这更有新闻价值的是

Is more newsworthy than

这里有东西

Here is thing

你可以现在花钱买。

you could spend. Now.

是啊。我不知道。我想如果我是个大公司，你或许可以搞个大营销攻势，让人们写文章报道它。我主要是从营销角度考虑的。但你没考虑到的是，那个衣架产品在有机营销上做得非常出色。

Yeah. I don't know. I think if I was a bigger corporation, then you could probably do a big marketing blitz and make people write about it. I was mostly thinking of it through a marketing perspective. But then also what you don't take into account because the coat hinder did amazing with organic marketing.

我觉得它有，比如，我发的一个Instagram短视频有超过1亿的浏览量，这太疯狂了。我去参加派对时，人们会说，你就是那个衣架女士。我就说，没错，就是我。

I think it has, like, over a 100,000,000 views for, like, an Instagram reel that I made, which is crazy. Like, I've been to parties, and people are like, you're the coat hanger lady. And I'm like, sure. That's me.

如果这就是我职业生涯的方向，那我就当这个吧。

If that's where my career's taking me, that's what I'll be.

我宁愿当衣架女士也不要当糟糕的机器人女士。这是个新称呼。是啊，我在横向发展。但你没考虑到的是，让人们支持Kickstarter的成本比让他们购买一两周就能到手的产品要高得多。

I'll take that over shitty robot lady. That's that's a new one. Yeah. I'm I'm moving laterally. But what you don't take into account is that the cost to get people to buy into a Kickstarter is a lot higher than the cost to get people to buy a product that they're gonna get in, like, a week or two.

是的。就像，我们可以通过众筹活动投入大量营销资金，但等产品有库存并获得评价后，说服人们花钱会容易得多。所以我们当时在Kickstarter众筹时决定不做付费营销——因为现在花钱说服人们支持不划算，等几个月后产品入库时再推广成本会更低。

Yep. So it's like, yeah, we could put a bunch of marketing through raising money to our Kickstarter campaign, but it's gonna be a lot easier to convince people to spend money once it's a product that we have in stock with reviews. So we actually got to a point with a Kickstarter campaign where we're like, we're not gonna do any paid marketing because it doesn't make sense to be spending money to convince people to do this when it's gonna be cheaper to convince people to do this in a couple of months once we have it in stock.

到那个时候，产品故事已经打磨得很好了对吧？经过Kickstarter的流程，我觉得它能帮你更精准地提炼产品卖点。

And by that point, the story has been really well refined. Right? Through going through the Kickstarter process, I I expect it kind of it refines the way that you talk about the product much more by the time that you end up getting there.

没错。这就像给你一个信息传达的试验场，还能让你与客户建立更深联系，让他们有参与感。不过说实话，我们现在还在摸索如何营销这个衣架。虽然我觉得它超级棒——我自己就是忠实用户。

Yeah. I think it definitely it gives you kind of a sandbox for messaging about it, and it also gives you an opportunity to connect more deeply with your customers and for them to feel a part of the process. But, I mean, with that said, I think we're still struggling to figure out how to market the coat hinder. Like, I think it's such a good product. I love it.

这产品真的能开拓很多可能性，但制造工艺导致成本过高。我们的利润空间很小，没法降价。虽然它工艺精湛——容我自夸下——但人们总拿它和普通衣架比价格，可普通衣架根本实现不了我们的功能。

Like, I swear by this, and I I think it opens up a lot of possibilities for people. But I think the way that we manufacture it has ended up being too expensive. Like, our margins are not great on the product, so we can't really lower the price. And it's really high quality, and, like, it's a beautifully engineered product, if I may say so myself. But people are really reluctant to spend that amount of money on coat hangers because they compare it to standard coat hangers, which is like, we can't compete to that or to the price of that because it does stuff that standard coat hangers can't do, and it's just different.

而且用户需要改造衣柜结构，要安装特定间距的挂杆，门槛太高。更糟的是，两周内就出现仿品——全是劣质塑料的，最初盗用我们图片，后来换成AI生成的烂图。现在搜'折叠衣架'，我们排不到第一，那些仿品广告投入比我们大得多。

But also because it requires people to reconfigure their closet, so you need a special rod to hang a specific distance from the wall, and there's just, like, a lot of hurdles to get people to do it. But then also, we immediately I think it was, like, two weeks maybe before copycats started popping up that are, like, all plastic, terrible quality, and who, like, stole our images initially, but then switched it out for their own bad AI generated ones once they'd figured out how what their version of it was gonna be. So now it's like you Google foldable coat hangers, and we're not first. And the other ones, the copycats, are so much deeper than ours.

这就是永恒难题：如何向潜在客户解释高品质产品的价值。

It's the eternal struggle of being able to try to explain to your potential customers why a higher quality product is better.

是啊。很多品牌都在自吹品质，标榜独家性，其实消费者只是为品牌溢价买单。而我们四个人的小团队是真心打磨产品...

Yeah. And I think it's just tough because I I often feel as well that there are a lot of brands who are, like, tooting their own quality horn, or they're like, yeah. You're getting this for exclusive. But, like, you're really just paying for the brand. And for us, it's like, yeah, we put a lot of thought into it, and we're also doing it on a team of four people.

对。我们倾注了全部心血经营，目标很简单：只要生意能维持下去让我们继续做热爱的事就行。公司的核心目标就是赚够维持运营的钱，因为我太热爱这份事业了。

Yep. And it's, like, made with so much love and care and dedication, and we're literally running the business in a way that the goal is just for it to be successful enough and us to earn enough money that we can keep on doing this. Yeah. Like, that's the entire stated goal of the business is, like, I just wanna make sure that we make enough money that we can keep on doing this because I love this work, and I care deeply about it. And I don't want people to pay for the brand.

我希望人们是为产品本身买单，支持独立创作者。就是这样。

Like, I want them to pay for the product and to support somebody who's doing it independently. And yeah.

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看，你提到了Kickstarter campaign结束到产品交付期间那种可以理解的压力。

See, you mentioned the understandable stress of a Kickstarter campaign closing and then the time period until it delivers.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这种压力比起'我囤了一批货，现在得看市场需求'如何？比如那个patch cap的例子。

How does that stress compare to, I bought a bunch of stock. Now I need to see if people want it, like, with the patch cap, for example.

patch cap倒简单，因为产品成本不高，而且我们通常只采购承受得起的库存量。另一个例子是8月7日上市的spool table——这是我们制作成本最高、售价最贵的产品。虽然很吓人，但每个颜色只生产了300件。即便最终滞销，我也能承担这部分损失。

Yeah. The patch cap is easy because it's not that expensive of a product, and it's usually we try to only buy the amount of stock that we know that we can afford. Another example is that August 7, we released the spool table, which is a really expensive product to make, and it's the most expensive product that we've ever sold. And, I mean, that's scary, but also we only made, I think, 300 of each color. So it's still an amount of stock that I know that even if that, like, ended up rotting on the branch, I could take the impact of that cost.

但现在我更担心的是：如果包装破损怎么办？如果出现潮湿或其他意外状况怎么办？要知道出问题的可能性太多了。

But, you know, right now, I'm more just terrified of, like, what happens if the packaging doesn't hold up? What happens if there is a moisture issue or something unforeseen? And, you know, there's so many ways for things to go wrong.

感觉这是个在尺寸、重量和规模上物流更复杂的产品。

Feels like a more logistically complicated product with size and weight and scale.

物流确实复杂。我们暂时只做美国市场以降低...

It's logistically complicated. We're doing US only to take some of the

复杂性的感知。

complexity sense.

超出能力了。是的。无论是从物流角度，还是说，我们有三种不同颜色。将这三个变体与不同插头组合起来，我们根本做不到。作为一家小公司，这远超我们的处理能力。

Out of it. Yeah. Both from, like, a shipping perspective, but also just, like, we have three different colors. And doing that three variants combined with different plugs is like, we can't do that. Like, that's way more than we can handle as a small company.

但没错。这确实令人害怕，不过我的信念是——要知道，我以前特别害怕顾客不满，现在我的底线是：我们真的在尽全力让每个人都满意。比如我们决定降低某款产品售价，因为它的利润空间足够。对于原价购买的顾客，我们会给他们寄礼品卡

But yeah. So it's definitely scary, but I think what I fall back on, you know, I I used to be really, really terrified of any customers being upset, and now what I fall back on is we are really doing our best for everyone to be happy. Yeah. Like, we're deciding to lower the price of one of our products because we actually have enough margin on that one. And for the customers who bought it at full price, we're gonna send them gift cards

附带

with

差价补偿。我们真的在竭尽全力确保顾客体验良好，这也是我们唯一能做的。但总有人会不满意——之前有个顾客因为拼图包装盒损坏要求退款，这完全合理。可他们发来的照片显示，根本不是拼图盒，而是运输箱上有一道折痕。

the, like, price difference. So, like, we're really going above and beyond to make sure that people are having a good experience, and that's all you can really do. But then some people will be upset that we had this customer that was upset and wanted a refund because they had ordered a puzzle, And they said that the box was messed up, which absolutely, if the puzzle box is messed up, you should get a refund. But then they sent photos, and it wasn't the puzzle box. It was the shipping box that had one fold on it.

我们当时的回应是：既然运输箱完好送达了产品，这次运输就该算成功。

And we were like, okay. Actually, if the shipping box successfully delivered the product intact, we're gonna have to count that as a successful shipping. Yeah.

它完成了使命。不然我们干脆把地址直接贴在拼图盒上算了。

It did what it was supposed to do. Otherwise, we would just stick your address on the puzzle box.

对啊，运输箱本来就是用来抗压的，而且那个箱子根本没啥问题，看起来完全正常。

Yeah. Like, that's supposed to take the beating, and it wasn't even badly messed up. Like, it looked totally fine.

但就算真坏了也没关系。你们应该没在运输箱设计上花太多功夫吧。

But it doesn't matter if it is. Yeah. I don't imagine you're doing a ton of design to the shipping boxes.

还是有点设计的。比如某些复杂产品，我们会精心设计运输箱以确保固定性。而且我们坚持使用零塑料包装，全部采用硬纸板和纸浆材料。

A little bit. Yeah. I mean, some of them for our more complex products, we do a lot of design to the shipping boxes because it has to, like, securely hold it. And we are also really trying to produce packaging without any plastic, so it's all cardboard and, like, paper pulp

嗯。

Mhmm.

那是模压成型的。所以我们确实在包装盒上投入了很多设计心思。

That's molded. So we do actually put a lot of design into our packaging boxes.

所以它们能折起来而不会损坏拼图盒。懂吗？你把那个...对...塞进去。你经常收到顾客反馈吗？

That's why they can have a fold in them and not destroy the puzzle box. You know? You put the Yeah. In. Do you hear a lot from your customers?

我个人收得不多。

I personally don't.

明白了。所以你们有专人负责客服？

Okay. So you have somebody managing support?

对，我们有全职客服处理这些。不过我也会收到顾客私信。

Yeah. So we have a full time support person who does that. I mean, I hear from customers because they send me DMs.

他们会出现在你的评论区之类的地方。

They're in your comments and stuff like that.

没错，他们还会在Reddit的r/simojetsch版块发帖。

Yeah. And they post on r/simojetsch on Reddit.

噢别，他们会去那里的。

Oh, no. They'll go there.

说实话，我前几天刚在那儿发了个帖，因为就像走进一个大家都在议论你的房间，我都不敢看。但其实他们都很友善，完全没必要害怕。

It's honestly I ended up making a post there just the other day because I'm like, I'm so scared to look at it because it's like walking into a room of people talking about you. But they give me no reason to be scared because they're all really sweet.

哦，那很好。

Oh, that's good.

是的。所以实际情况远没有听起来那么糟糕和可怕。不过，确实会有事情找上我。比如我会在更高层面了解到情况，也会查看我们的客户支持Slack频道。但对我个人而言，我不需要成为第一线的应对人员。

Yeah. So it's way less bad and scary than it sounds. But, yeah, so things do come to me. And, I mean, I'll hear about it on a higher level, and I'll be on our customer support Slack channel and check that. But I think for myself, I don't need to be the first line of responders to that.

我需要知道是否有升级的问题。但为了我的心理健康和专注力，就像...我知道我们正在尽力处理，但我不需要卷入所有事情。

Like, I need to know if there are escalated issues. But for kind of my mental health and focus, it's like, yeah. I know that we're dealing with it the best we can, but I don't need to be in all of it.

我的意思是，你已经在线上创作内容很长时间了。确实。更久以来你一直在开发产品。这对你处理反馈有帮助吗？你觉得你有办法应对正面或负面的反馈吗？

I mean, you've been online for a long time creating content. Yeah. For much longer, you've been creating products. Has that helped you deal with feedback? You feel like you have a way of dealing with positive negative feedback?

到现在已经有十年了。

I mean, it's been ten years now.

这段时间够长吗？

Is that enough time?

不够。我几乎没什么免疫力，脸皮一点也不厚。而且不知怎么的，算法似乎总是让我评论区保持友善氛围。

No. I have very little callous. I don't have thick skin at all. Yeah. And I think I have somehow just been algorithmically blessed with really nice comment sections.

很好。

Good.

比如我从未遭遇过仇恨攻击，或是有人用真正想伤害我的方式恶语相向。大多都是些非针对性的言论。说实话，如果网络环境比这更恶劣，我可能就待不下去了，因为我特别害怕别人对我发火。

Like, I have not gotten any like hate campaigns against me or people being really vile in a way that feels like they're really trying to get to me. Like, it'll be mostly impersonal stuff. But yeah. And, honestly, I don't think I could be on the Internet if it was rougher than that because I am so scared of people being angry with me.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，这就像我在人际关系中的焦虑循环一样，我会想，天哪，我妈是不是生我气了？但实际上，我妈这三十四年里几乎从没对我生过气。她是最好的妈妈。但我还是会忍不住想，哦不。

I mean, that's like my anxiety loop in my personal relationships as well where I'm like, oh my god. Is my mom angry with me? And, like, my mom in thirty four years has, like, pretty much never been angry with me. She's the best. But I'll still be like, oh, no.

我是不是做错什么了？

Did I do something wrong?

我认识很多创意工作者，包括我自己，都有这种感觉。嗯。为什么我们要选择这个职业？在我们开始上网之前，我们就在担心别人不喜欢自己，结果你可能反而需要这种焦虑。我也不知道。

There are so many creative people that I know, myself included, who feel this way. Mhmm. Why do we choose this job? Like, before we started being online, we're like, I'm worried people don't like me, and then you end up maybe you need that. I don't know.

是啊。因为我觉得我们真的非常渴望被喜欢。

Yeah. Because I think we also really wanna be liked.

没错。你知道，大概就是这样。

Yeah. You know, that's probably it.

不想被讨厌和非常想被喜欢，我觉得这是同一种性格特质的两个方面。

Not wanting to be disliked and really wanting to be liked is two sides of the same personality trait, I think.

你觉得很难将自己的身份与工作项目分开吗？还是说它们就是你的一部分？

Do you find it hard to separate yourself from your projects, or do you feel like they're a part of you, your identity?

哦，它们绝对是我身份的一部分。我的工作深深融入了我的身份，但我有很好的工作生活平衡。我觉得自己已经培养出了一种健康的工作关系，能在下班后放下工作。我不会过度工作，业余时间也不会总想着工作。

Oh, they're definitely a part of my identity. My job is deeply a part of my identity, but I have really good work life balance. I feel like I've just developed a really good way of relating to work and kind of leaving it. At the end of the day, I don't work too much. I don't ruminate a lot about work in my off time.

当然有时候事情会影响你，你会把压力带到身体里，但我已经找到了很好的平衡。不过这是需要努力才能达到的。

And yeah. Of course, sometimes things will will get to you, and you'll carry it with you in your body, but I have found a really good balance. But it's been mean, it's been work to find that.

对。所以这是你锻炼出来的能力。是需要付出努力和刻意练习的。

Right. So that's a muscle you've worked on. Like, that's taken effort and conscious time.

是的。说实话，我觉得生病反而帮了我。因为我当时病得很重，被迫休息并暂时抽身，这帮助我重新定义了‘优秀’的含义。以前，‘优秀’意味着不停工作、拼命压榨自己。而在康复期间，‘优秀’变成了真正倾听身体需求，确保有足够时间休息和照顾自己。

Yeah. And I think, honestly, being sick really helped. Because I was really sick, and I was forced to rest and kind of step away, and it helped reprogram what it means to be good. Because before, being good was constantly working and pushing myself really hard. And when you're recovering from an illness, being good is really listening to your body and making sure that you have enough time to rest and take care of yourself.

这个改变从那时起就持续至今，产生了非常积极的影响。

And that's kind of been a permanent change since I did that, that's been really positive.

我是说，你学到了更重要的东西对吧？从根本上看？

I mean, you learn something that's more important, right, like, ultimately?

没错。而且我认为关键在于——我享受工作对业务成功至关重要。这是成败的关键。如果我不再乐在其中，项目质量、内容质量、一切质量都会下降，团队幸福感也会受损。我的职责就是确保好好照顾自己，真正享受工作，因为只有享受才能做好。

Yeah. And I think also it's like just knowing that me enjoying my work is really important for the success of the business. Like, it's what it hinges on. And if I stop enjoying what I'm doing, then the quality of the projects that I do is really gonna suffer, the quality of the content, the quality of everything, and the happiness of my team. Like, it is my job to make sure that I take good enough care of myself that I'm actually enjoying it because I need to enjoy to do it well.

本期《Cortex》由Factor赞助播出。夏季往往意味着有趣但繁忙的日程。当你在再次出门前需要用餐时，可能只有几分钟时间。这时Factor就能帮上忙。你可以通过营养师认可、直接配送到家的美味主厨预制餐更聪明地进食。

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作为新手父母，我特别理解：能微波加热两分钟就吃的简餐很棒，但关键是要健康优质——这正是Factor的强项。这些餐食简直是救命神器。

All of the ingredients are high quality, and it makes it feel good while you're eating it. Also, take it from someone who is a new parent. Having a meal that you can just chuck into the microwave for a couple of minutes and eat is fantastic. But what you really want is for it to be good for you and good quality and that is what Factor does. This stuff is a lifesaver.

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Eat smart at factormeals.com/ cortex 50 off and use the code cortex 50 off to get 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for a year. That's the code cortex five zero o f f at factormeals.com to get 50% off plus free breakfast for one year. Get delicious ready to eat meals delivered to Factor. The offer is only valid for new customers with the code and qualifying auto renewing subscription purchase. Our thanks to Factor for their support of this show and all of Relay.

我们稍微提到了营销，因为这确实是贯穿产品生命周期的线索。但Yetch Studio的营销创意非常有趣，很有吸引力，很有你的风格。

We've touched on marketing a little bit because I guess it is Mhmm. A thread that runs through a product's entire life. But the marketing creative for Yetch Studio is very fun. It's very engaging. It feels like you.

你也参与这个环节的工作吗？

Are you involved in this part of the process as well?

既是也不是。我参与得越来越少，这正是我想要的。最初我包揽所有工作，从概念设计到文案撰写，因为我希望品牌传递一种独特的声音——既有趣活泼，又对我们的产品保持高度尊重与敬畏。

Both yes and no. So less and less, which is what I want. Yep. Like initially, I wrote everything. I did all the concepts and stuff because there's a very specific voice that I wanted to be in in a specific feel where it's like we're fun and playful, but at the same time, like have a lot of respect and reverence for our products.

但我们的邮件营销确实很狂野，我超爱这种风格。

But all of our email marketing our email marketing is wild. I love it.

我是订阅用户，你们的邮件确实令人大开眼界。既怪异又吸引人，让我总忍不住点开——这策略很成功。

I'm on the list, and it it is something to behold. Like, I love it. It's great. It's so weird, and I want to open your emails. It works.

对吧？每次都在期待：这次又会玩什么花样？

Right? Because it's like, what is this one gonna be?

常规的留存营销比如购物车提醒比较平淡，但我们的大型营销活动都很出格。最近做了个「每日目标日历」的性感版本，把日历PS成消防员、建筑工人和泳池服务生的造型，就像那种猛男月历。

I mean, we've started doing more of the, like, retention marketing or where it's like, you have an abandoned cart, which is maybe not the most exciting stuff. But, like, the big marketing campaigns that go out are really weird. Like, one of the recent ones that we did was an everyday calendar calendar. So we made a sexy calendar, like, kind of like a fireman calendar before our everyday goal calendar. And it's just photoshopped, like, parts of, like, the everyday calendar as a firefighter, as a construction worker, as a pool boy.

核心是让邮件值得打开。这些创意都来自澳大利亚的Luke，他头脑风暴出点子后做初稿，我基本不需要修改——他比我更能把握品牌调性。

I just want it to be worth opening. And that's all a guy named Luke who's in Australia, And he's just has the best brain. And he comes up with the ideas, and he makes a version of it. I leave notes on it. And, usually, it's a no notes situation on my end.

这让我如释重负，终于有人能比我更好地驾驭品牌声音了。

So that's a huge relief that if there's somebody who can, like, kind of hold the voice of the brand better than I can.

确实。

Yeah.

内容方面有内容总监Anna和编辑Billette负责Instagram短视频、产品拍摄等。我只偶尔写文案或提意见。今年初聘用的COO接手了公司运营，组织全员会议和财报邮件。现在周三我甚至会闲到思考：今天该做点什么呢？毕竟团队都在高效运转。

And then for all of our content, I have my head of content, Anna, and then my editor, Billette, are doing a lot of our, like, Instagram reels and doing all the shoots and the product photography and all of that. And I'll, like, write captions or give feedback to it, but it has less and less to do with me. And then earlier this year, I hired a chief operating officer who's taken over a lot of the logistics of the company and just, like, is the one putting together our town halls and, like, the company wide emails that are like, this is what our numbers were. And now I'm at a point where I have time, and I'll be, like, on a Wednesday looking around being like, oh, what should I do today? Like, everybody's working.

我的清单上目前空空如也。我想我应该捣鼓点什么，或者构思一个新项目，这对我来说是个全新的状态——因为以前总是要靠我自己推动一切才能让事情运转起来。而现在不同了。对此我真的既兴奋又自豪，因为这正是我为自己设想并希望实现的未来。

I don't have anything on my list. I guess I should tinker or, like, think of a new project, which is a very new position for me to be in because before, it was, like, to get the ball rolling, it was all me having to push it. Yep. And now it's not. And it's, like, I am really stoked and proud over that because it's kind of the future that I imagined for myself and that I hope to build.

我不禁感叹：天啊，我居然正在过这样的生活。而且现在有比我更擅长做那些我曾经亲力亲为工作的人。

And I'm like, oh my. Wow. I'm living it. And I have people who are better at doing the jobs that I used to do than I am.

你提到团队有四个人，但从你的描述听起来似乎不止这个数？

You mentioned that the team was four, but it sounds like more from what the way that you're describing it.

产品业务线有四位全职员工。另外还有两位同时兼顾产品业务和媒体业务，也就是YouTube频道和网红相关的工作。

It's four full time employees on the product business. Yep. And then two that are splitting their time between the product business and the media business, so the YouTube channel and the influencer stuff.

你们也会和外包人员合作吗？还是说所有人都是...

And do you work with contractors too, or or is everybody

有些外包人员，但主要是正式员工。比如负责邮件撰写的营销人员是外包的，不过基本上都是正式雇员。

Some contractors, but mostly yeah. The marketing, the guy who writes our emails is a contractor, but, yeah, pretty much all employees.

你们如何协作？是全分布式办公吗？大多数都是远程...

How do you work together? Are you all distributed? We're remote, most

我们多数人远程办公。有两位同事坐班。工程师Stu在英国，COO Katie在澳大利亚黄金海岸，Avis则往返于深圳和墨尔本之间。

of us. So there's two of them in house. And then Stu, my engineer, is in The UK. Katie, my COO, is on the Gold Coast in Australia. Avis is between Shenzhen and Melbourne.

客服代表Stefan在塞尔维亚。

Our customer service rep, Stefan, is in Serbia.

听起来要开全员会议几乎不可能啊。你们怎么...确实很棘手。大概只有20分钟的时间窗口？

This sounds like it would be impossible to do an all team meeting. How on a It's tricky. It like a twenty minute window?

好像总会有人要受苦。不，因为我们实际上覆盖了所有时区。我知道艾维斯为了和我的工程师斯图以及我开开发会议，总是起得很早。但我们正在设法协调，我觉得这样挺好的，因为我确实希望我的工作室能相对独立，毕竟我们还要在那里拍摄内容。

Like somebody is always gonna suffer. No. Because we're literally hitting every time zone. So I know Avis gets up really early for, like, our dev meetings with Stu, my engineer, and me. But we're kind of making it work, and I think what's nice about it is that I do want my workshop to be a bit separate because we're also filming content there.

所以里面不能有太多人，因为我们需要这个空间来搭建视频拍摄场景。是的，还要做些其他事，而且讽刺的是，我也不想太多人盯着我干活。不过进展很顺利。但你知道吗，我曾幻想过要雇佣50名员工，觉得那才是理想的公司规模，这样我还能记住每个人的名字和职责。

So, like, I can't have too many people in there because it's kind of this space that we need to have set up for shooting videos Yeah. And for doing stuff, and also I don't want too many people looking at me as I'm doing stuff, ironically enough. It's been really good. But I think, you know, somehow I had imagined that I wanted to have 50 employees. And then, like, that's the size of the company I want because then I can still know everybody's name and what they're doing.

但现在我觉得，如果能用大概8个员工搞定，那就太棒了。目前我想做的事，没有什么是这个团队做不到的。

But now I'm like, no. If we can do this on, like, maybe eight employees, great. Like, there's nothing that I feel that we can't do now that I want to do.

这就是在这个时代创建这类企业的优势——你不需要雇佣仓库人员。是啊，现在有很多业务环节你既不需要完全掌控，也没必要亲力亲为了。就像你之前提到的3PL（第三方物流公司），我们可以把所有货品发给他们处理就行。

This is the benefit of being in the time that we're in to create a business like this because you don't need to employ warehouse stuff. Yeah. You know, there are so many parts of a business which you don't need to fully control, and you also don't have to anymore. And so, you know, you mentioned three p o earlier. It's a third party logistics company, so you can have you know, we will ship all of our stuff there, and they will do it.

你还可以找专业公司帮你投放Instagram广告，他们就能搞定。不必把所有职能都内部化。正是这种模式让创业成为可能——如果要养50甚至100号员工，这个目标可能根本无法实现。

And then you can bring in a company that can help you place ads on Instagram, and, like, they can do that. You don't have to bring everything in. And, like, that is what makes it possible for like, if you had to have 50, a 100 employees, maybe this wouldn't be achievable.

确实不可能。因为我可能只需要这个人的五分之一工作量。

No. It wouldn't be possible. Yeah. Because I need, like, a fifth of this person.

没错。

Yep.

那个人的三分之一工作量，通过外包就能解决。尽管关税问题棘手，但现在仍是创业的好时机。

A third of this person, and you can do that by contracting things out. It's a good time, even though the tariffs are tricky.

是啊，仍然是个

Yeah. Still a

适合做这行的好时候。

good time to be in this business.

是啊，这确实挺难的。但话说回来，在美国生产东西能有多容易呢？我没说错吧？看起来那么简单。

Yeah. That's rough. But, I mean, how easy is it to make stuff in America? Am I right? It looks so simple.

我觉得是

I think it's

就是 对。

just Yeah.

你只要走到街角，那里就有个制造仓库。

You just go down the corner, and there's a manufacturing warehouse in here.

不，我是说我们的考虑...当前局势还在不断变化和稳定中，所以我们还没做出重大调整，因为未来充满不确定性。但我的思路是：改变市场比改变生产基地容易得多。如果美国的关税政策持续不可行，我们就直接在欧洲开个3PL仓库，转战那边市场。

No. I mean, the the thinking that we have I mean, the situation is still stabilizing and and changing, so we haven't, like, made any big shifts to adjust yet because it's like, we don't know what's gonna happen. Yep. But my line of thinking is it's a lot easier for us to change the market than where we manufacture. So if the tariff situation keeps on being unfeasible in The States, then we'll just open a three p l in Europe and start marketing it there instead.

因为比起把生产线搬到美国，这种调整容易多了。根本不可能的事。

Because that's an easier adjustment to make than moving our manufacturing to The States. Like, there's just no way.

我...我从没听人这么透彻地解释过，这个思考角度很有意思。确实，一旦找到靠谱的生产伙伴且产品运转良好，被迫改变简直是灭顶之灾。对吧？因为等于要全部推倒重来。

I you I've never heard anybody explain it in just exactly that way before, and, like, that is a very interesting way of thinking about it. Because, yes, once you found your manufacturing partner and you're making a product that works, having to change that is, like, the worst possible thing that could happen. Yeah. Right? Because it's like, well, you gotta start all over again.

到时候产品积累的利润全打水漂，又得重新投入研发，一夜回到解放前。对了，你和团队怎么协作？用Slack这类工具吗？日常沟通怎么进行？

And then you've you've lost all of the profit you've built up in the product at that point because you're then you have to start paying off r and d again, and you just go right back to the beginning. Yeah. How do you you and the team work together? Do you use, like, tools like Slack? Like, what what how are you communicating?

我们用Slack，Notion成了新的文件中枢，替代Google Drive。每月有一次全员大会，算是'本月动态'汇报，大家轮流展示成果——比如'看我做的这个'、'工厂实拍图'或者'邮件营销数据'。

We use Slack, and Notion has become our new Yep. Like, kind of files hub in Google Drive. Yeah. I mean, we have one monthly town hall, which is our all hands on deck meeting where we're kind of going through what's new this month. Everybody's like a little bit of a show and tell of everybody being like, look.

原本以为远程协作会是次优选择，虽然和天天见面不同，但实际效果很好。跨时区反而有优势：我下班前写的需求，第二天起床对方已经搞定。我们也会不定期组织线下聚会，比如飞去美国搞公司团建之类的。

I made this, or I worked on this, or, like, here's photos from our factory, or here's how well this email campaign did. I thought that working remotely would be a second tier level work relationship. You know? And obviously, it's different from, like, having somebody that you see every day, but it's really nice, And it's also kind of great for things to be able to happen on different time zones because they'll be like, I'll write something at the end of the day, and I get up in the morning, and that person has already actioned it, and it's done. So there are some benefits to it, and we do try to meet up as a company now and then or, like, people fly out to The States and just have, like, a company retreat or something like that.

所以目前还算顺利。但我想说，和我共事的大部分人已经合作了近十年之久。这些都是我们非常熟悉的人，彼此间有深厚的信任，我认为这对远程工作来说也是必要的。

So it's kinda working out. But, I mean, a lot of the people I've worked with in some capacity for the better part of a decade. So it's people that we know really well, and there's a lot of trust, which I think also is required for working remote.

现在我们正处于产品生命周期的工作流程阶段。你们已经进入了发现产品长尾效应的阶段——产品已在商店上架，作为产品组合的一部分销售。这部分你们是如何管理的？比如如何决定订购多少库存？

So we're kind of at the point of the workflow, the life cycle of your product now that we're going through it. We're into the point now where you're finding kind of, like, the long tail success of it. So you've got it on your store, and you're selling it as part of the portfolio. How do you manage that part? Like, what are you doing to work out how much stock to order?

类似这些方面。对于已成为固定产品线的商品，你们是如何考量和管理的？它不再是什么大型众筹活动的焦点，只是常规在售商品。

Like, all this kind of stuff. Like, how do you think about and manage a product that is now just a permanent part of the lineup? It's not a part of a big splashy kickstart campaign or anything anymore. It's just available on your store.

我们还在摸索节奏。今年是第一次感觉像车轮真正滚动起来，之前总是手忙脚乱地应对各种突发状况。但现在我们清楚不同产品的生产周期，会提前规划——比如预计日常目标日历十一月会售罄，现在就开始准备新批次。

We're still kind of finding our pace with that. Like, this year has been the first year where it feels like we're a wheel properly rolling. Whereas before, it was just like, we're running out of this. We should do this. But it's like, we know what the lead times are on the different products, and we're keeping an eye on, like, okay.

目前算是找到了不错的节奏。不过话说回来，今年销售额是去年的四倍...

We think we're gonna run out of everyday goal calendars in November. Let's start working on a new batch now. So I think we found a pretty good rhythm. But, I mean, with that said, it's, what, four x'd our sales against last year

哇。

Oh.

部分原因是推出了爆款拼图。我原计划只订1000份，结果首周就卖出1.2万份。

This year. So How? I mean, part of it was releasing. I released a jigsaw puzzle that did surprisingly well. I think I'd ordered a thousand of them, and we ended up selling 12,000 Wow.

此外，聘请专职编辑提升了内容产出量，运营总监的加入统筹全局也大有帮助。我们还从原平台迁移到Shopify，重新设计并上线了网站，整体运营效率显著提升。

On, like, the first week, which is like, what? Yeah. But, also, we've just hiring my editor, who's enabled us to increase our content output has helped a lot. Hiring the chief operating officer who's kind of across everything has helped a lot. We also moved to Shopify from another platform that and, like, redesigned the whole website and relaunched it, I think it's just performing better.

是的，我们正在走向成熟。

So, yeah, I think we're just maturing.

这是因为他们使用的工具吗？比如你提到的购物车邮件提醒之类的功能？

Is that just because of, like, the tools that they have? Like, you mentioned, like, the cart emails about in cart emails and stuff like that. Like, I guess

是啊。

Yeah.

一旦接入这样的基础设施，一切就会变得顺理成章。

Once you plug into an infrastructure like that, it will just kinda make sense.

没错。这让我们能更细致地分析数据，看清哪些措施有效、哪些无效。说真的，我感觉我们终于开始步入正轨了，这让我特别兴奋——毕竟经营一家连续三年每月巨额亏损的企业，还要坚持说'我相信这事能成'，而不是在犯傻固执，真的不容易。

Yeah. It's given us a lot more granularity in terms of data and looking at what's working and what's not working. So, yeah, I I feel like we're we're finally starting to hit a really good stride, and I'm stoked because it's been, you know, it's tricky to run a business for three years that's, like, losing a significant amount of money every month and being like, no. I believe in this. I don't think that this I'm not being just stupid and stubborn.

我认为从长远来看这会是笔优质投资，现在终于可以说：好，我觉得我们真能做成这件事了。

Like, I think that this is actually gonna be a good investment in the long term, and now being like, okay. I think we can actually make this work.

所以我猜是你在自掏腰包？当业务持续亏损时，是YouTube频道的收入在支撑整个公司运作对吧？

So I assume you were funding it. Right? Like, when it's losing money for it to continue, the YouTube channel was paying for the business to exist.

对，我们没接受任何外部投资。所有资金都来自YouTube频道，再投入到产品业务中。

Yeah. We took out no investment or anything. So it was all just taking money from the YouTube channel and investing it into the product business.

产品业务改变了你对YouTube频道的看法吗？

Has the product business changed the way you think about the YouTube channel?

确实。某种意义上它给频道注入了新生——以前我常困惑该怎么利用这个平台。虽然拍视频很有趣我也乐在其中，但长期做下来难免倦怠，会想'我对这个没热情了'。但现在有了真正在乎的事业，YouTube频道反而成了不断尝试新事物、开展新项目的完美借口。

Yeah. I mean, it's given it new life in a way where I was like, I don't know what to use this for. Like, I'm not really excited about the prospect of making YouTube videos, even though it is fun, and I do enjoy it. I really do. It can also just get tired when you've done it for a long time, and you're like, I'm not really having interest, but this is like but now I have something that I care really deeply about, and also the YouTube channel is giving me an excuse to constantly try new things and to build new projects.

这种组合简直完美。它就像个持续的提示器，每个月都在问：这个月我能搞点什么新创意？

Yeah. And it's kind of the perfect combination. So I think it's just such a good constant prompt to be like, okay, what can I think of this month?

我特别爱看你那些经营公司的视频，尤其是你去参加贸易展的那期，堪称经典。

I really enjoy the videos that you make about running this business. A particular highlight is when you went to a trade show.

嗯。这个

Mhmm. This

是CoatHinja。对吧？我想。

was CoatHinja. Right? I think.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

我记得的是你去参加了一个贸易展，基本上就是自己一个人站了一整天。

The way that I remember is you went to a trade show and basically just stood on your own for for the day.

是的。而且非常尴尬，我们几乎没做成什么销售。投资回报率很低，但我们从中学到了很多东西。

Yeah. And very awkward, and we almost did no sales. And it was not a good return on investment, but we learned a lot of things from it.

我也去过这类产品贸易展，只是去看看展出的产品，嗯。看看大家都在做什么，因为我觉得这很有趣。但我发现那种环境让人感到极其尴尬。嗯。就像，走在走廊上，每个人都想拉住你，这种感觉非常奇怪。

I've been to these kinds of product trade shows just as, going to see the products that are there and and Mhmm. To see what people are doing because I've you know, it's interesting. And I find them to be incredibly awkward environments Mhmm. To be in. Like, it is very strange to walk down a corridor and, like, everyone wants to, like, to grab you.

这是一种非常奇怪的感觉。

It's a very strange feeling.

是的。作为参观者我可以享受贸易展，但我不喜欢带着目的性去和人交谈，比如‘让我来给你介绍这个产品’。不过，我们正在筹备一些批发性质的展会，展示更广泛的产品目录，尝试让产品进入实体店。我觉得这很有意义。

Yeah. I can enjoy trade shows as a visitor, but I don't enjoy talking to people and having an ulterior motive and being like, let me tell you about this product. But, yeah, we're doing some more ones that are for wholesale where we're gonna show our wider catalog of product and try to get them into physical stores. And I think that makes a lot of sense.

看看你生活中的两个领域，内容创作和产品创作，未来十年你觉得自己会处于什么位置？你有想要达到的目标吗？或者你认为自己会处于什么状态？那会是什么样子？

Looking at the kind of the two areas of your life, like the content creation and the product creation, over the next ten years, kinda where do you imagine you're gonna be? Do you have somewhere you want to be? Do you have somewhere you think you'll be? Like, what does that look like?

有趣的是，这是我第一次感到如此令人恼火的满足。我喜欢我的工作，喜欢我的房子，喜欢我的团队，也爱我的狗和猫。

I mean, the funny thing is that I am for the kind of the first time so infuriatingly content. Like, I love my job. I love my house. I love my team. I love my dogs and my cat.

我爱我的男朋友，爱我的家人和朋友。一切都很美好，我深深享受着我们现在做的项目。我就是觉得，嗯，就这样继续下去吧。

I love my boyfriend. I love my family, my friends. Like, everything is really good, and I'm so deeply enjoying the projects that we're doing. And I just like, I'm like, yeah. Let's just keep on doing this.

我想稍微扩大团队，给现有成员减轻些压力。等时机成熟时，可能需要全职销售人员来管理批发业务——我们即将推出的产品非常适合批发渠道。另外，我觉得配备全职市场专员也会很棒。但你知道，我当初在产品业务还没真正需要时就启动了它，因为那时YouTube频道和整个行业都发展得很好。现在不知道你是否也有同感，YouTube或网红市场已经高度成熟，价格也大幅下降了。

I would wanna expand the team a little bit just to kind of take some stress off of some of our team members. I think it would be great to have, like, a full time salesperson probably to manage wholesale once we're ready for that. We have some products that are coming out that would be really great for wholesale and have a full time marketing person in house probably, I think would be really great. But, you know, I started the product business before I really needed it because the YouTube channel was still doing well and, like, the YouTube industry was doing well. Now I don't know if you've felt that as well, but, like, the YouTube or, like, influencer market has really matured a lot, and the prices on have gone down a lot.

现在我们处于这样的阶段：产品业务今年终于要开始微利，而YouTube频道的收入只有两年前的一半左右。

So we're at a point where my product business is finally gonna make a small profit this year, and my YouTube channel is making about 50% of what it made two years ago. Yeah.

是啊，播客广告也是类似情况。这是我们最主要的收入来源。

Yeah. I mean, we see that with podcast advertising. Right? That's our biggest thing. Yeah.

现在工作量翻了十倍，收入却只有原来的75%。

It's like, it's just 10 times the amount of work for, like, 75% of the money.

部分原因我觉得是世界经济形势让人不敢花钱。但市场成熟也是事实。以前定价很随性，品牌方会说'我们就喜欢这个博主的调性，愿意投这么多钱'。现在则变成'你最近五个视频的播放量是多少？我们就按这个标准付钱'。虽然这种规范化让我的收入受损，但这正是我期望的——YouTube业务逐渐收缩，产品业务成为主业和主要收入来源，YouTube转而辅助产品业务。现在正自然地向这个方向发展。

Yeah. I mean, for part of it, I think the the world is a little bit scared of spending money right now for good reasons. But, yeah, it's also just the market has matured. Yeah. Before pricing was very vibes based, brands were like, yeah.

某种程度上，行业变化反而成全了我的抱负。如果YouTube频道持续增长，我反而更难把精力投入到真正想做的事情上。

We wanna spend this much money on this creator because we like their vibes. And now it's, like, very much like, how many views did you have on your last five videos and we pay this much? So I feel like it's it's become a lot more organized in a way that's made my prices suffer a lot. But it's kind of what I hoped for was that, like, the YouTube would kind of business would taper a little bit, and then that the product business would become the main focus and the main moneymaker, and the YouTube business would kind of live more in support of the product business than the other way around. And I think that is what's happening naturally.

这其实是种因祸得福的解脱，对吧？

There's a kind of mercy for your own ambitions in the industry changing. Right? Because if the YouTube channel kept growing, it would make it harder and harder for you to be able to put the efforts into the thing you actually want to put your efforts into.

没错，我其实为YouTube频道不如从前感到开心——这简直太棒了！因为这正是我期待的局面，不仅情感上如此，从商业角度也符合我的发展规划。

Yeah. It's great that my YouTube channel isn't doing as well as it used to. It's actually an amazing I was so happy about it. No. But it's kind of what I hope to happen, and it's making the trajectory that I want it to happen make sense also business wise and not just emotionally.

虽然希望产品业务占比更大，但YouTube我还会继续做。我的想法是，如果将来有孩子，可能会停更YouTube一两年，但产品业务可以维持——每天只需工作一小时处理审批，团队就能独立运作。这也是我创立产品业务的初衷：让自己有随时抽身的自由。

I'm hoping for that to be more, but I think I'll I'll keep on doing some sort of YouTube. I mean, I think kind of the thinking is if I have kids, I would probably stop doing YouTube at least for a year or two, but keep on doing the product business. Because I can keep the product business afloat with, like, an hour of work a day Yep. Just to get people approvals, and we have, like, that's something that can happen so independently of me. And this is also why I built the product business, because I wanted to be able to step away Yep.

而不是所有事情都非得依赖我。所以你知道的？还有什么比养育孩子更大的健康问题吗？

And not have everything have to hinge on me. So it's you know? Is there any bigger health problem than having a child?

本期《Cortex》节目由Sentry赞助播出。AI系统错综复杂，即便代码看似无误，仍可能出错——提示失败、工具超时、输出渲染异常，若缺乏清晰的问题可见性，调试就会变得迟缓被动，只能盲目猜测故障点和原因。

This episode of Cortex is brought to you by Sentry. AI systems are complex. Even when the code looks right, things can still go wrong. Prompts fail, tools time out, outputs don't render as expected, and without clear visibility into what happened, debugging becomes slow and reactive. You're stuck guessing where it broke on why.

Sentry的智能体监控能化解这种复杂性，它将智能体行为、用户体验与系统日志串联起来，让团队全面掌握底层运行状况。从此无需纠缠表象症状，直击问题根源。这类工具令我惊叹，AI技术正日益普及，尤其在开发领域。

Agent monitoring from Sentry helps untangle that complexity. It links together agent behavior, user experience, the system logs, giving teams a full picture of what's happening under the hood. So instead of chasing symptoms, you get straight to the root cause. This kind of stuff sounds fantastic to me. It seems like AI tools are just becoming more and more commonplace, especially in development.

谁都不愿因此让代码漏洞百出。若采用混合开发模式，Sentry的AI智能体监控确实是得力助手。作为应用使用者，我最看重稳定性——不愿遭遇程序错误，而Sentry能实时监控开发者代码，在问题出现时及时协助，省去他们大量排查故障的时间，自动定位问题症结。

You don't wanna introduce a bunch of bugs into your code because of it. AI agent monitoring from Sentry really sounds like a great tool to help if we're going for that kind of hybrid approach. But in general, one of the things that I love about being a user of apps is I want them to work well. I don't wanna be hitting bugs, and I love that Sentry is there monitoring developers code and can help them out when things are going wrong and make sure that they're not spending so much time trying to dig out and find the causes of issues. Sentry will help find them for them.

别忘了还有SEER——Sentry新推出的AI调试助手，就像雇佣了熟悉你全部代码库的工程师。SEER的根因定位准确率高达94%，甚至能基于分析生成可合并的PR。立即免费试用sentry.io，提暗号Cortex可享团队版三个月免费及15万错误额度。

Don't forget, you also have SEER, Sentry's new AI debugging agent on hand as well. It's like hiring an engineer who already knows your entire code base. Sear finds the correct root cause 94% of the time and can even provide merge ready pull requests based on that analysis. Try it free at sentry.i0 and tell them that we sent you. They have a free dev plan and listeners of this show can use the code Cortex and sign up for three months free of their team plan and a 150,000 errors.

重申一遍：sentry.io，使用优惠码Cortex，或直接点击节目备注中的链接。感谢Sentry和Relay对本节目的支持。我发现通过手机主屏能洞察一个人的优先事项。

That's sentry.io, sentry.io. Use the code Cortex, or you can just click the handy link in the show notes. Our thanks to Sentry for the support of this show and Relay. I have learned that you can tell a lot about somebody and the things that they prioritize by looking at their home screen of their phone. Yeah.

所以我请你分享了手机主屏截图。嗯...首先注意到你装了大量通讯应用。

And so I asked you to send me the home screen of your phone. The Mhmm. First thing that jumped out to me is you have lots of messaging apps.

啊，有吗？

Oh, do I?

标配的短信/iMessage，还有WhatsApp

We have the standard messaging app, iMessage and SMS. We have WhatsApp

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们还有Facebook Messenger。这是不是那种情况，我假设你的朋友遍布全球，你无法强迫他们全都使用同一个应用？

And we have Facebook Messenger. Is this one of those scenarios where my assumption would be you have friends all over the world, and you can't force them all into one application?

我是说，我主要是在iMessage应用上和人们保持联系。

I mean, I mostly keep contact with people on the iMessage app.

嗯。

Yep.

Facebook Messenger只是个遗留物。比如，可能我和表亲们有个群聊。嗯。我童年的挚友可能也在上面。而WhatsApp是我邻里群聊的地方。

The Facebook Messenger is just a legacy leftover. Like, yeah, we have there's like a thread with my cousins, maybe. Yep. Like, my childhood best friend is on there, maybe. And then the WhatsApp is where my neighborhood chat is on.

所以，我所有的邻居

So, like, all my neighbors

嗯。

Yep.

方圆几个街区的人都在那里。所以我主要在那里和他们聊天，比如，嘿，街上有人在朝天空扔石头，小心点。

With a couple of block radius is on there. So that's mostly where I'm chatting with them of like, hey. There's like somebody throwing rocks at the sky on the street. Watch out.

我注意到除了Instagram，你的主屏幕上没有其他社交媒体。比如没有基于文字的社交媒体，像Blue Sky、Twitter之类的。它们在你手机上完全不存在吗？

I noticed that other than Instagram, there is no social media in your home screen. So like, no text based social media stuff, blue sky, Twitter, that kind of stuff. Are they on your phone at all?

有。好吧。它们确实在。老实说，我主要在Threads上。可能应该多用用Blue Sky。

Yeah. Okay. They are. I am mostly on threads, honestly. Should probably be on blue sky more.

但我也...我是说，我把手机砖化了。我装了Brick应用。

But I also I mean, I I brick my phone. I have a the Brick app.