被谋杀：克里斯汀·戴维

嗨，犯罪迷们。我是你们的主持人艾希礼·弗劳尔斯。

Hi, Crime Dunkeys. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.

我是布里特。

And I'm Britt.

我们又回来了，这次带来一个案件的详细信息，我在上一集中曾简要提到过。如果你错过了那一集，别担心，你不需要听了之后才能理解今天的这个案件。但我强烈建议你稍后去听一听，因为今天案件中的受害者总是被归入这个太平洋西北地区一小群失踪和被谋杀的人群中，当局和当地居民相信他们都是被同一个人杀害的。但这个案件一直是个例外，因为这名年轻女子的遗体被肢解，装在垃圾袋里漂浮在斯内克河中。事实上，我认为她很可能是一名连环杀手的受害者，只是不是我们上周谈到的那个凶手。

And we are back with the details of a case that I ever so briefly touched on last episode. Now, you missed that one, don't stress. You don't need to hear it to jump into this one today, but I highly recommend taking a listen later because the victim in today's case always gets lumped in with a group of missing and murdered people from this small Pacific Northwest area that authorities and community locals believe were all killed by the same man. But this case has always been the outlier because of how this young woman was found, dismembered and in garbage bags floating in the Snake River. The thing is, I think she very well could be a victim of a serial killer, just not the one we talked about last week.

我一直在追踪一名新的男子，他在上世纪八十年代总是在出现肢解女性的地区现身。我想邀请犯罪迷们一起参与调查，因为我需要你们的帮助。所以，请仔细聆听今天这个案件的细节，如果你知道你所在地区或更远的地方有任何作案手法类似的本地案件，请务必联系我。因为我已经掌握了至少五个案件，但我始终有一种感觉，还有更多类似的案件存在。不过，让我先从爱达荷大学的一名学生说起，她的故事发生在两周前你们听到的爱达荷堡垒事件之前。

I've been tracking a new man who somehow kept turning up in the same areas as dismembered women in the nineteen eighties. And I wanna bring crime junkies in on the investigation because I need your help. So listen to the details of today's case closely, and then I need you to reach out to me if you know of any local cases in your area or beyond with a similar MO. Because I've already got at least five on my radar, but I can't shake the feeling that there is more. But let me start with the University of Idaho student whose story came well before the Idaho Fort that you heard two weeks ago on this show.

这是克里斯滕·戴维的故事。1981年6月下旬到7月初的几天里，在华盛顿州和爱达荷州交界处的刘易斯顿-克拉克斯顿山谷，警方接到了大量电话，回应当地关于爱达荷大学一名女学生的失踪新闻。22岁的克里斯滕·戴维当时正在放暑假，虽然她打算和她的姐姐一起住在爱达荷州的刘易斯顿，但她想取回她留在校园公寓里的自行车和其他几样东西。因此，6月25日，她让一个朋友开车送她大约30英里，回到爱达荷州的莫斯科市，这样她就可以取回自己的东西，然后她打算第二天早上也就是26号骑自行车回去。毕竟，这段路基本上是下坡路。

This is the story of Kristen David. In late June and into the first couple of days of July 1981, police in the Lewis Clark Valley right where Washington and Idaho meet are getting a flood of calls in response to local news of a missing coed from the University of Idaho. 22 year old Kristen David was on summer break, and while she was going to be staying with her sister in Lewiston, Idaho, she wanted her bike and like a couple of other things that she left behind at her campus apartment. So on June 25, she had a friend drive her the 30 miles or so back to Moscow, Idaho so she could get her things and then she was gonna actually bike back the next morning on the twenty sixth. I mean, the ride was mostly downhill.

这趟骑行可能只需要她三个小时，对克里斯滕来说完全没问题，但她再也没有回到刘易斯顿。她和她的自行车就在95号公路漫长的一段路上消失了。起初，警方花了几天时间才开始怀疑克里斯滕的案件涉及谋杀。但随着她失踪的消息传开，许多当地人都打电话报告称在26号当天见过她。有些目击只是说她一个人在骑车，但这些信息有助于确定她可能在失踪前骑了多远。

It would take her maybe three hours, easily doable for Kristen, except she never made it back to Lewiston. Both her and her bike just vanished somewhere along the long stretch of Highway 95. Now it took a few days for police to consider foul play in Kristen's case. But as news of her disappearance made its way to locals, plenty of people were calling in sightings of her from the twenty sixth. Some were innocuous just saying that she was biking alone, but those kinda help pinpoint how far she might have made it before she disappeared.

但另一些目击报告则更加令人不安。警方反复听到有人提到一名男子和一辆神秘的棕色面包车可能当时就在克里斯滕旁边的公路上。当然，不同的人提供的描述略有不同。例如，有一名男子说，他看到那辆棕色面包车停在路边，一个看起来像克里斯滕的女子正在那名男子的帮助下把她的自行车装进车里。他说她看起来并不惊慌，所以他没有停下来做任何事情。

But other sightings were more ominous. And over and over again, police were hearing about a man and a mysterious brown van that may have been with Kristen on the side of the highway. Now these sightings differ a little bit based on who comes forward. Like for instance, one man says that he saw the brown van parked on the side of the road and a woman who looked like Kristen was loading her bike into the back of it with help from this man. They said she didn't look distressed, so he didn't stop or do anything or whatever.

然后还有一位名叫詹姆斯的证人称，他在靠近刘易斯顿以北一个叫杰尼瓦的小镇的高速路边，看到一辆外观相似的面包车。在这次目击中，司机站在驾驶座一侧，而一名金发年轻女子，外貌与克里斯滕相符，正站在面包车后部，自行车则倒在路边的杂草中。根据现场情况，他以为那名女孩出了什么事故，而这名男子正在帮助她。尽管詹姆斯说，他看到面包车另一侧有影子和两只脚，也就是说还有另一个人在那边，但他看不到是谁。

Then another witness named James claims to have seen a similar looking van pulled over to the side of the highway close to this town called Genesee, which is just north of Lewiston. And in this sighting, the driver was standing outside on the driver's side and a young blonde woman matching Kristen's description was standing towards the rear of the van and the bicycle was like laying in the weeds. Based on the scene, he assumed that the girl had some kind of accident and that this man was helping her. Although James says that he saw a shadow in two feet on the opposite side of the van. Like there was someone else on the other side that he just couldn't see.

他没有停下来，因为他说他以为这名男子已经在帮忙了，不需要他。考虑到这是1981年，当警方开始收到大量这些模糊的描述时，他们开始将目击者带去催眠，希望获得关于这辆神秘面包车，或者最好是车牌号码的更多信息。所有目击者都一致认为这辆棕色面包车挂着俄勒冈州的车牌。一些在催眠状态下的人还记得一些字母和数字。比如詹姆斯说，车牌的最后两位数字是37。

And he said he didn't stop because, again, he thought this guy was already stopping and helping and, you know, nobody would need him. So being nineteen eighty one, as police start getting a flood of these vague descriptions, they begin bringing people in to put them under hypnosis, hoping to get more details about this mystery van or ideally the license plate. All of the witnesses agree that the brown van was sporting an Oregon license plate. And a few under hypnosis can remember some of the letters and numbers. Like James says that the last two digits were 37.

另一位证人的说法也印证了这一点，他说车牌上有数字737。

And that's backed up by another witness who says the plate had the numbers 737.

有没有人能够描述一下那个司机的外貌？

Were any of them able to describe the driver?

有。他们确实描述了，而且即使在催眠状态下也没有更准确的描述。不过，在他们最初的陈述中，所有人都给出了类似的描述。有一位开车路过的目击者说，那个人看起来有点蓬松的大胡子。另一个人则形容这个人是所谓的邋遢，不管那对那个人来说意味着什么。

Yes. They were and not any better under hypnosis. But, like, in their initial statements, they all give this similar ish description. One witness who was driving past says this guy had, like, this full kind of shaggy beard. Another describes this guy as quote unquote grubby, whatever that means to that person.

而詹姆斯提供了最详细的描述，他说这个人大约30岁，是一个白人男性，身高在五英尺十英寸到六英尺之间。他说这个人身材魁梧，如果非要猜测的话，大概在175到180斤之间，留着修剪整齐的胡须，棕色头发，穿着一件棕色和白色格子衬衫，以及类似军装的卡其裤。不过，尽管描述非常详细，我觉得值得一提的是，詹姆斯的说法随着时间的推移有了一些变化。例如，他在克莉丝汀失踪后不久做了两次陈述。

And James comes in with the most detailed description describing this man as approximately 30 years old. He's a white guy, five ten to six feet tall. He said he had a husky build, maybe if he had to guess one seventy five to one eighty, with a trimmed beard, brown hair, and wearing a brown and white checkered shirt and army type khaki pants. Although, as detailed as that was, I feel like it's worth noting that James' story changes some over time. Like, instance, he gives two statements shortly after Kristen went missing.

在第一次陈述中，他提到看到车底下有脚，好像另一边还有其他人。但在第二次陈述中，他没有提到任何其他的人。而几年后，当他参与了一档名为《冷案山谷》的节目时，他的说法发生了更剧烈的变化。在2018年的时候，他说他开车经过，看到那辆棕色面包车，但此时克莉丝汀不是站着，而是躺在自行车旁边的草地上，仿佛她已经被撞倒了。

In the first, he mentioned seeing the feet under the van like someone else was on the other side. But then in the second one, he doesn't mention any other person. And then the story he tells years later when he participated in an episode of the series Cold Valley, it changes, like, more drastically, I think. At that point in 2018, he says that he was driving past and he spotted this brown van, but now Kristen wasn't standing up. She was laying down in the grass next to her bike as though she had been hit.

然后他说他看到司机，也就是那个男人，从车上下来，朝克莉丝汀躺着的地方走去，而这个人脸上还带着微笑。

And then he says he sees the driver, the one man, getting out of the van, walking back towards where Kristen was laying, and this dude was smiling.

那在这之前没有任何关于这些细节的提及吗？

And there's no mention of any of these No. Details before?

没有。我们团队甚至尝试联系詹姆斯，但没能联系上。所以我有点怀疑，他在1981年看到的事情，在他的脑海中逐渐演变成了更可怕的样子，尤其是在7月4日之后，人们终于意识到克莉丝汀失踪后到底发生了什么。就在目击者看到克莉丝汀站在路边那个留着胡子的男人和棕色面包车的一周多之后，有个男人在蛇河钓鱼过独立日假期时，在靠近河岸的水中发现了一个黑色垃圾袋。这个发现足够不同寻常，让他忍不住好奇地查看了里面的内容。

No. And our team even tried reaching out to James, but we couldn't get through. So I kind of wonder if what he saw in '81 morphed into something more sinister in his mind, especially after July 4 when people finally realized what happened to Kristen after she went missing. A little over a week after witnesses spotted Kristen on the side of the road with that bearded man and brown van, this guy who is spending his fourth of July fishing on the Snake River spots a black garbage bag in the water near the riverbank. And it's unusual enough that curiosity gets the best of him and he looks inside.

就在那时，他发现了克莉丝汀·大卫的部分遗体。再往下游，还有一个同样的黑色垃圾袋。于是他报警了，警方在当天晚上到第二天早上之间总共收集了五个袋子，里面装有克莉丝汀被肢解的身体部分。不过根据《南爱达荷新闻报》的一篇文章，确认她的身份官方上花了整整五天时间。当他们从袋子里一个个取出遗体部分时，几乎没有多少证据可供调查。

And that's when he sees parts of Kristen David. And then downstream, there is another one of these same black trash bags. So he calls police who over the course of that evening and the next morning collect five bags in total containing parts of Kristen's new dismembered body. Though according to an article in the South Idaho Press, it would take five days for them to confirm her identity officially. Now there was very little evidence to work with when they removed each part one by one from the bags.

我的意思是，他们无法准确判断她是什么时候被杀害的，也无法判断她在水中泡了多久。但阿索廷县治安办公室的侦探杰姬·尼科尔斯告诉我们，调查人员认为她很可能是在失踪当天或之后不久死亡的。克莉丝汀的尸体出现了皮肤滑脱的迹象，这是尸体自然分解的一部分。嗯嗯，但尸体在水中时，这个过程会减缓。根据我的研究，尸体放入水中后，可能只需要24小时就会出现这种现象。

I mean, they couldn't tell exactly when she had been killed or how long she'd been in the water, But detective Jackie Nichols with the Assotin County Sheriff's Office told us that investigators believe she had likely died either the day she went missing or very shortly after. Kristen's body showed signs of skin slippage, which is like a natural part of decomposition. Mhmm. But it is slowed down when a body is in the water. So according to my research, it can take as little as twenty four hours for this to happen after a body is placed in water.

尽管有很多不同的因素会影响这个过程。因此，目前的推测是，她被杀害后很快就被抛尸了。然后可能发生的情况是，这些袋子沉到了河底，直到第四天才浮出水面并被发现。所有这些都意味着，调查人员几乎无法收集到任何生物证据。而她的个人物品，比如首饰或其他东西，也没有在她的遗体上找到。

Although there are, like, a ton of different factors that can impact this. So the working theory is that she was killed and then dumped relatively quickly. And then what probably happened is the bags sank to the bottom of the river before surfacing and then being discovered on the fourth. And all of that to say, investigators then were left with little hope of collecting any biological evidence. And none of her personal effects, like jewelry or anything else, was found on her body either.

这很有趣。我在我们掌握的文件中看到一条记录，上面说她有一块人们知道她常戴的手表，而且那块手表被找到了，但我不确定它是在哪里发现的。比如，是在她的遗体旁边，还是他们回到她的公寓或其他什么地方找到的？我不知道。但无论是谁把克里斯滕包裹起来并放进那些袋子里，留下了这样一个线索。

And it's interesting. I do see a note in the files that we have seen that says she had a wristwatch that she was known to wear and that that watch was located, but I'm not sure where it was found. Like, was it with her remains, or did they go back to her apartment or something and find it there? I don't know. But there was one clue left behind by whoever wrapped Kristen and put her in those bags.

每一部分遗体都是用报纸包裹的，他们发现这些报纸来自四份不同的《刘易斯顿晨报》（Lewiston Morning Tribune）报纸，日期分别是4月7日、4月17日、4月19日和4月24日。我觉得这很有趣，因为这不像是有人随便找到一份报纸，而是连续几份报纸，仿佛是凶手使用了送到他家的报纸。

Each body part was wrapped in newspapers, and they realized that the newspapers were from four different issues of the Lewiston Morning Tribune. They were dated April 7, April 17, April 19, and April 24, which to me is interesting because it's not like someone just found one random paper. Like, it really is more of a series of papers as though the killer used the ones that had been delivered to their home.

随便找来的。

Whatever was around.

没错。当然，也有可能这些报纸是通过成千上万种其他方式捡到或找到的。不过，仔细想想，这个人一开始必须有一个可以用来肢解克里斯滕的地方。他们会去一个他们熟悉的地方，一个私密、他们感到舒适的地方。

Right. And sure, there are thousands of other scenarios where these could have been picked up or found or whatever. I But, mean, think about it. This person had to have somewhere to go to dismember Kristen in the first place. They're gonna go somewhere that they know, somewhere that's private, that they are familiar with and feel comfortable in.

而且熟悉到可能每天都会收到报纸。

Well, and so familiar that they may get the daily paper there.

正是这个想法。因为这一切看起来都不像草率或仓促完成的。这个人有足够的时间去做他们想对她做的事情。我是说，她的遗体被肢解得几乎像动过手术一样精确。也就是说，行凶者要么具备医学知识

That's my thinking. Because nothing about this feels sloppy or rushed. This person took their time to do exactly what it is they wanted to do to her. I mean, her dismemberment is described as almost surgical. Like, whoever did this either has medical knowledge

或者以前曾经这么做过。

Or has done this before.

完全正确。此外，她的身体上有被毁坏的痕迹，嘴里还发现了某种肌肉或组织残留物。

Exactly. And there were also signs of mutilation on her body and some sort of muscle or tissue in her mouth.

我们知道她的死因吗？

Do we know anything about her cause of death?

坦白说，知道一些。我们通过信息自由法案（FOIA）申请获取了克里斯滕的一些文件，里面记录了她的死因和其他伤势。但尼科尔斯探长要求我们不要公开这些信息。虽然她不是克里斯滕案件的主要调查人员，但她做了大量相关工作，并认为最好不详细透露这些内容。此外，我们无法联系到FBI真正的案件负责人，他们的办公室也不愿意回答我们的问题。

So transparently, yes. So we obtained some of Kristen's files through a FOIA request, and there is documentation of her cause of death and other injuries she sustained. But detective Nichols has asked that we don't publicize that information. While she isn't the lead investigator on Kristen's case, she has done a lot of work on it, and she thinks that it would be best not to get into that in detail. And then we couldn't get in contact with the actual lead investigator at the FBI, and their office wasn't willing to answer any of our questions.

所以只是出于对尼科尔斯探员请求的尊重

So just out of respect for detective Nichols' request

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们不会深入讨论这个问题。但回答你的问题，是的，我们知道，调查人员也知道。我可以告诉你一些我之前没透露过、而且我认为可能是凶手作案手法特征的信息。我之前说过，他们在蛇河里发现了五个不同的袋子。

We're not gonna get into that. But to answer your question, yes. We know and investigators do know. And here's something I can tell you that I don't think has been reported before and something that I think could be a hallmark of her killer's MO. I told you they discovered five different bags in the Snake River.

他们找到了她的头、躯干、两条手臂。其中一些是被双层袋子装着的。然后她的左腿、臀部和屁股被发现时是连在一起的，但并没有装在袋子里。现在她的右大腿上半部分也被找到了，但我从报告中看不出来那是否装在袋子里。但我想说的是，当所有地方都被搜查完毕，调查人员准备收拾东西离开时，剩下的那部分右腿——也就是从膝盖往下一直到脚的部分——始终没有找到。

They found her head, her torso, both arms. Some of them were double bagged. And then her left leg and hips and buttocks were found all connected but not in a bag. Now the upper part of her right thigh was also recovered, but I can't tell from the reports if that was in a bag or not. But what I'm getting at is when all is said and done, when the whole shore had been searched and investigators were ready to pack everything up, the rest of her right leg, so we're talking everything from the knee down, was never found.

从未被找回。什么？搜寻人员是不是可能只是漏掉了？有可能。我在案卷中看到有一份报告简要提到，有人曾看到一个外观相似的黑色垃圾袋漂浮在河中央很远的地方。

Never recovered. What? Could searchers have just missed it? Possibly. I mean, there's one report I saw in the case file that briefly mentions seeing a similar looking black trash bag floating, like, way out in the middle of the river.

由于当时河水湍急，没人能在它消失之前赶到那里。所以也许她的那条失踪的腿就在那个袋子里。不过，我也没看到任何后续报告说这个袋子后来被找到了，也没有任何人发现它，所以我忍不住会想，会不会是凶手把它留下了？稍后你会明白我为什么提出这个问题。这并不是我这个毫无经验的犯罪新手随便提出的理论。

And since the waters were choppy, no one could get to it before it disappeared. So maybe that's where her missing leg ended up. But also, don't see any reports of that turning up later or being found And by anyone so I can't help but wonder, could the killer have kept it? And you'll see why I asked that question a little bit later. So it's not just me being like wild crime rookie theories.

这真的是一个值得思考的问题：这会不会是他作案手法的一部分？

It really is the question of could this be part of his MO?

嗯。

Mhmm.

这一点还有待观察。因此，尽管对河岸进行了彻底的搜查，但没有发现其他东西。还有一个问题仍然没有答案：她的尸体是从哪里进入河里的？幸运的是，这里的情况出现了转机，因为不久后，一名女子联系了警方，她说她和另外几个人在几英里上游的一座桥的栏杆上发现了两处看起来像是血迹的痕迹，那座桥就在克里斯滕的尸体被发现地点的上游。于是调查人员前去查看，那些痕迹依然存在。

And that remains to be seen. So despite a thorough search of the shoreline, nothing else is recovered. And there's still the question of where her body went into the river. And detectives here are in luck because they're soon contacted by a woman who says that she and a couple of others found two separate stains of what looked like blood on the railing of a bridge a few miles upstream from where Kristen's body was found. So investigators go check it out, and the spots are still there.

可能正是因为这一点，调查人员开始推测克里斯滕的尸体是被人从这座桥上扔进了下面的河水中。后来还有两名目击者出面作证，称他们看到一辆深色的面包车停在这座桥上，可能就是在克里斯滕失踪的那一天。不过这些目击者并没有看到任何可疑的行为，他们只是说，那名司机的外貌特征与他们掌握的描述大致相符。而且那人看起来不太高兴有人看到了他，但这位目击者并没有真的看到那个人把袋子扔过桥栏。

And it may be because of this that investigators start theorizing that Kristen's body was dumped off this bridge into the water below. And then two witnesses even come forward later stating that they saw what looked like a dark van parked on that bridge, possibly on the same day that Kristen went missing. Now these witnesses didn't actually see anything suspicious. They just said that the driver of the van sort of matched description that they've been working with. And the guy didn't look happy that someone had seen them, but it's not like this witness actually saw this person throwing bags over the railing.

我可以告诉你是谁看到了那些斑点，以及他们是在什么时候看到的，我们可以就这样兜圈子，但我不会先让你充满希望，然后再让你失望。因为当时采集了样本，后来也做了检测，结果发现那些斑点根本不是血。但这并不意味着有人没有在那个时间点使用过那座桥来把袋子放进水里。这并不能说明事情没有在紧凑的时间线内发生过。

And I could talk to you about who saw the spots and when they saw them and go around in circles, but but I'm not gonna build you up only to bring you down because samples of that may be blood are collected, later tested, and it's determined to not even be blood at all. It doesn't mean that someone didn't still use that bridge to put the bags in the water. Doesn't mean it didn't happen on a tight timeline.

没错。

Right.

但这些并不能提供任何实质性的证据。就像，他们现在的位置和之前一模一样。

But this doesn't offer any kind of proof. Like, they're right where they were before.

他们有没有找到她的自行车，或者自行车的零件，或者其他什么东西？没有。

Did they ever find her bike or pieces of her bike or anything? No.

没有找到她的自行车，没有找到她的衣服，甚至一些侦探了解到她很可能随身携带的私人物品也没有找到，比如她的支票簿和她的零钱包。

Not her bike, not her clothes, not even some of the personal items that detectives learned she would have most likely have had on her, like her checkbook and her coin purse.

当你提到零钱包，而我在想到一个连环杀手时，这感觉就像是他会保留下来作为战利品或纪念品的东西之一。这取决于区别，对吧？

When you say coin purse and I'm thinking of a serial killer, it feels like one of those things that he would keep as, like, a a trophy or a souvenir. Depends difference. Right?

这取决于他会怎么处理这些东西。如果我没记错的话，战利品通常是杀手会送给别人的东西，他们可以看到对方佩戴或拿着它。这就是他们获得满足感的方式。而纪念品，他们则更倾向于藏起来。

It depends on what he would have done with it. If I remember correctly, like, trophies, I believe, are the kinds of things that killers would give to someone else. They can see them wearing it or holding it. Like, that's what they get off on. Souvenirs, they kinda just keep tucked away.

明白了。不过我还是能想象他会保留像零钱包或支票簿这样小的东西。但像自行车这样大的东西，我觉得

Okay. But still, I could see him keeping something little like a coin purse or a checkbook. But something big like her bike, I feel

就像那样会

like that would

很难藏起来。那会很显眼，会被人注意到。很明显的东西。

be hard to, like, hide away. It would it would be, like, noticeable. Noticeable.

我知道。在我脑海里，比如，把车扔进河里本来会很简单。但是，我的意思是，除非他们完全漏掉了，他们已经搜过那条河了。那里没有，这让我又回到一个想法，可能是这家伙的家或者类似的地方，他就是在那儿肢解的尸体。比如，他有没有什么地方可以藏这辆自行车，不让别人发现？

I know. In my mind, like, throwing it in the river would have been easy. But, I mean, unless they totally just missed it, like, they searched that river. It's not there, which makes me come back to the idea that it could be this guy's home or something like that, wherever he did the dismemberment. Like, did he have a place that he could also store the bike to keep that out of sight?

你觉得他有没有可能是在，比如说，他货车的后部完成所有这些事的？因为这辆货车总是出现在这些目击事件和线索中。

Do you think there's a chance that he could have done everything in, like, the back of his van? Like, this van keeps, like, popping up in these, like, sightings and stuff.

这是一种可能性。实际上，尼科尔斯探员说了一些有趣的话，可能与此有关。她说，肢解克里斯滕尸体的人在她的腿部遇到了一些困难。比如她的一条大腿上部，不管是左腿还是右腿，我不确定是哪条腿，有几处切口表明凶手在肢解时遇到了困难，就像我刚才说的那样。

So it's a possibility. And actually, detective Nichols said something interesting that might play into this. So she said that whoever dismembered Kristen had some struggles with her legs. Like one of her upper thighs, either the right or the left. I'm not sure which one had some cuts that indicate that her killer had trouble dismembering her, like I said.

为了给你解释清楚一点，克里斯滕基本上是被从关节处拆开的，几乎就像猎人分解动物一样。所以可能他当时所处的环境空间有限，当你面对像腿这么大的肢体时，可能会遇到问题，对吧？这完全是有可能的。比如

So to kind of spell it out for you, Kristen essentially was taken apart at the joints, almost like a hunter would break down an animal. So maybe he's in an area where when you have a limb as big as a leg, like, you have issues. Right? That's totally possible. Like

如果你在一辆货车里。

if you're in a van.

没错。或者他遇到困难的一个原因可能是，如果你想到一个习惯处理动物的猎人，在人类身上，髋关节的位置比你想象的要高。

Right. Or one of the reasons he might have had trouble is if you think about a hunter who's used to animals, on humans, the hip joint is higher than you might think.

这表明凶手可能是个猎人，而不是一个对人体解剖学有了解的人。像这样，有医学知识的人不会犯这种错误。他们会知道髋关节的位置更高。

Which would indicate a hunter versus someone with, like, medical knowledge, knowledge of the human anatomy. Like Right. That's not a mistake that they would make. They would know that it sits higher.

没错。所以，再想想，他是因为空间狭小而无法操作，还是最开始不知道该从哪里下手？这只是个推测。而且我觉得在爱达荷州的乡下，猎人多得是。没错。

Right. So, again, is he, like, cramped for space, or did he not know where to go in at initially? And, this is just a theory. And I feel like hunters in rural Idaho are a dime a dozen. Yeah.

所以谁知道这到底意味着什么？但不管凶手的背景如何，找到那辆货车变得更加重要。因此，根据目击者提供的信息，侦探们列出了一份车牌和车辆清单，他们想要调查。我的意思是，他们甚至直接去了俄勒冈州的车辆管理局，调取了所有以各种组合的73737等车牌号码结尾的俄勒冈州注册车辆信息。然后从中筛选出棕色的货车。

So who knows if it even means anything? But regardless of the killer's background, the search for that van is all the more important. So based on what they know from witness sightings, detectives come up with a list of plates and vehicles that they wanna check. I mean, they literally went to the DMV in Oregon, pulled registrations for every Oregon plate ending with a variety of combinations of the reported numbers, 73737 whatever. And then from there, they whittled it down to just brown vans.

然后他们逐一跟进了每一辆货车。这是一项耗时又困难的工作，如果能有所收获，那这一切都是值得的。但不幸的是，一次又一次的调查，他们什么也没发现。他们没有找到任何可以锁定的嫌疑人。即使他们搜索了附近的所有房屋、棚屋和谷仓，基本上是任何可能隐藏血腥犯罪现场的地方，也是一无所获。

And then they individually followed up on every single one. It was time consuming and difficult and would have been worth it had anything come of it. But unfortunately, check after check, they don't get anything. They don't get any suspects that seem to stick. And even though they do a bunch of searches of nearby houses and sheds and barns, basically anywhere that could hide a very bloody crime scene, that turns up nothing either.

不过，他们还没忙完。在调查开始的头几天，根据目击者的报告绘制出了一张复合素描。这些素描还可以，但并不比我们已有的那些模糊描述更有帮助，我们只知道是一个白人男性，棕色头发。但是，先别管这家伙长什么样。作为一个人，他到底是谁？

They aren't out of things to do yet though. A composite sketch is created within the first few days of the investigation based on those witness reports. And they're fine, but not any more helpful than the vague descriptions we already have of a white guy with brown hair. But, like, forget what this guy looks like. Who is this guy as a person?

就像画像一样。我喜欢详细的画像。

Like a profile. I love a good profile.

这次的画像确实提供了很多信息。我猜这是由联邦调查局制作的，尽管文件上并没有明确说明。但我们知道现在他们已经接管了这个案件。而在八十年代初，地方执法机构是不会做画像分析的。

This one delivers. I'm assuming it's made by the FBI, though the document doesn't actually say. But we know that they've taken over the case now. And back in the early eighties, local law enforcement agencies were not profiling.

没错。

Like Right.

那时候是联邦政府做的。因此他们为这个人做了一个心理画像，大概20条左右。白人男性，年龄可能在21到28岁之间，可能独居，或者与女友或母亲同住。如果和家人住在一起，母亲会在家庭中占主导地位。他被认为很聪明，但成就低于预期。

That was the feds. So they put together this 20 psychological profile of this guy. White male, probable age 21 to 28, living alone or with a girlfriend or mother. Mother would dominate family if family is together. Considered intelligent, but is an underachiever.

换句话说，别人觉得他本可以做得更好。受过高中或更高的教育。第六条，他可能拥有一辆较新的车型，并为此感到自豪，经常开车在附近转悠，顺便说一句，我们之前见过类似的情况。

I. E. Others think he could do much better than what he does. High school education or better. Number six, probably owns a late model vehicle of which he is proud of, cruises the area in his vehicle, which side note, we saw that before.

是的。

Yeah.

就像在Eve Wilkowitz案件中，我们当时觉得大概一年前，粉丝俱乐部也出现过类似情况。我总是好奇这些信息是怎么得来的。比如，犯罪现场的哪些线索能让你判断某人喜欢新款汽车，或者他拥有一辆？

It was in the Eve Wilkowitz case that we did, like, feel like it was a year or so ago at this point for a fan club. And I always wonder where that comes from. Like, what about a crime tells you that someone's into late model cars or has one?

是啊。如果我没记错的话，在Eve的案件中，我们觉得这可能与某个目击证人的报告有关。

Well, yeah. And if I'm remembering correctly in Eve, we thought that, like, maybe that had been connected to, like, a witness sighting or something.

没错，但那只是个猜测。而在这里，我没有看到任何关于这种车辆的证人陈述。当然，我可能没有掌握全部信息，但我不太确定。我只是有点好奇，他们是否认为某些类型的人会被这些车吸引。

Yeah. But that was a guess. And, like, here, I don't see any witness statements about a car like that. I mean, granted, I might not have everything, but I don't know. I'm kinda just wondering if they think certain types of people are drawn to those.

这是否说明了拥有这些特征的更大人群的某些情况？比如，BAU，给我打电话。我还有后续问题，不过我们继续往下看。第七点，此人可能从青少年时期就有过逮捕记录或纪律处分记录。这些记录涉及针对他人的犯罪行为。

And does that say anything about the larger population who owns these? Like, BAU, call me. I have follow-up questions, but let's keep going. So number seven, probably has an arrest record or discipline record going back to teen years. The record would be for crimes against persons, I.

例如，攻击、斗殴、暴力行为。他很难保住一份工作，因为他认为自己比别人更优秀、更有知识，因此不愿意听从他人的指示和命令。他自认为在智力上高于执法人员，因此他会关注调查进展，并可能在调查过程中留下线索来帮助警方。

E. Assaults, fights, violent type acts. Has a hard time keeping a job as he considers himself better and more knowledgeable than others. Therefore, will not follow directions and orders of others. Considers himself superior in intelligence to law enforcement officers, therefore he will follow the investigation and might leave clues as the investigation progresses to aid police.

他可能会在以后回到犯罪现场，以幻想和重温当时的情景。犯罪发生在某一区域，之后他试图将尸体和证据转移到另一区域以隐藏，而这些区域都在他居住地的附近。我们现在来看第10点。他会保留纪念品用于幻想，这可能包括尸体部位、衣物或其他受害者当时随身携带的个人物品。所以当你提到钱包时，是的，有可能。

Might return to the crime scene at later dates to fantasize and relive the situation. Crime scene occurred in one area and an attempt to hide body and evidence made by taking it to another area, all in the general area of where subject lives. We're on to number 10 now. Souvenirs will be kept for fantasizing, which might include body parts, clothing, other personal items victims had at the time. So when you were talking about coin purse, yes, possibly.

当你提到她小腿下部的时候。

When you were talking about the lower part of her leg.

也有可能。这就是我刚才说的他可能沉迷的地方。他可能拍下了尸体的照片，以便日后重温当时的场景。受害者对他来说并不熟悉，只是当时有机会下手而已。受害者的死亡很可能发生得很快。

Also, possibly. This is what I was saying I was obsessed with. Photographs might have been taken of the body to help relive event at later date. Victim will not be known to subject, but was available when situation presented itself. Death probably came quickly to victim.

没有折磨。死亡前后可能都没有发生性行为。

No torture. There might not have been any sexual intercourse before or after death.

哦，问一下。对Kristen Dunn的肢解是在她死前还是死后发生的？

Oh, question. Was the mutilation to Kristen Dunn pre or postmortem?

根据侦探Nichols的说法，很可能是死后。第14点，这次事件对嫌疑人来说在心理和性方面是满足的，尽管是一次非个人化的行为。受害者对他毫无意义，他对自己的行为也没有悔意。嫌疑人应该在该地区居住了一段时间，并且在社区中被一些人所认识。咬痕或刺伤通常是在死亡之后造成的。

Likely post, according to detective Nichols. Number 14, the incident is psychosexually satisfying to the subject, although an impersonal event. The victim means nothing to him and he has no remorse over what he did. Subject will have lived in the area for a period of time and will be known to various people in his community. Bite marks or stab wounds commonly made after death.

17. 导致死亡的武器通常是他自己拥有的，而不是临时找到的武器。我们会保留武器一段时间。随着这种幻想逐渐消退，我们会再次杀人，而且随着时间的推移会越来越频繁。他会幻想如果机会出现，他会如何对待一个女孩。

17. Weapon used to cause death will normally be his own as opposed to a weapon of opportunity. We'll keep the weapon for a period of time. As this fantasy wears off, we'll kill again and more frequently as time passes. Will have fantasized about what he would do to a girl if the situation presented itself, I.

例如，有预谋的。而当机会真正出现时，他会按照自己的幻想行事。最后，第20点，他在杀人之后可能会离开该地区，搬到另一个城镇，重新安顿下来，找到工作等，然后才会再次杀人。那么，谁符合这个心理画像？

E. Premeditated. And when the situation does occur, he conducts himself as he has fantasized. And finally, number 20, might have left the area after the killing, moving to another town and establishing himself, job, etcetera, before he will kill again. So who fits this psychological profile?

是的。没有人完全符合，但多年来有很多男性曾引起过调查人员的注意。我想谈几个这样的人，因为我发誓我已经说过一千次了。这应该成为人生信条，但我还没把它说得简明扼要。但这是一个反复出现的主题：当我接手一个冷案，一个没有任何真正嫌疑人的案子时，情况就是这样。

Yeah. There is no one perfect fit, but there are a ton of men who have come across investigators radar over the years. And there are a few that I wanna talk about because I swear I've said this a thousand times. It should be a life rule, but I haven't made it short and sweet. But this is a reoccurring theme where I'll come into a cold case, one where there are no real suspects.

这个案子已经彻底凉了。表面上看，似乎没有任何嫌疑人，因为根本没人提起过。但当你看到案卷并深入调查时，情况恰恰相反。我总是惊讶：怎么会有这么多人看起来都那么可疑？不可能所有人都有罪吧。

It's ice cold. And on the surface, it looks like there would be no suspects because, like, no one's talked about any. But then you get to see the files and you dig in, and it is the opposite. I am like, how can there be this many people around all the time that look so guilty? Like, they can't all be guilty.

所以，这让我开始用怀疑的眼光看待身边的每一个人。比如，如果我死了，你有什么秘密会随之曝光呢？还有，比如……

So, like, what the heck? It has made me start side eyeing every person around me. Like, if I died, like, what secrets do you have that would come pouring out? And, like

我认为这其实也是人生第一条铁律，对吧？你永远无法真正了解任何人。

I mean, I think that's also just life rule number one. Right? You never really know anyone ever.

那么这就是人生信条1.1版。你永远无法真正了解任何人，直到他们的生活与刑事调查产生交集，那时一切都藏不住了。

Well, then it's life rule 1.1. Like, you never really know anyone ever until their life intersects with a criminal investigation, and then there is no hiding.

除非遇到一个糟糕的侦探。

Unless you have a bad detective.

不，不，不，人生信条1.1不是这个意思。我开玩笑的。我想说的是，尽管克里斯滕·戴维案目前仅被公开与刘易斯克拉克谷的谋杀和失踪案有关联，但实际上还有许多其他非常可疑的人进入了执法部门的视线。好了，就这样。

Life rule 1.1 no. No. I'm just kidding. All that to say, even though the Kristen David case has only publicly been linked to the Lewis Clark Valley murders and disappearances, there were plenty of other highly suspicious people that came on law enforcement's radar. Okay.

我首先想讲的几个人是最初引起调查人员注意但很快就被排除的。第一个是乔治·威廉森，又名巴兹。巴兹进入警方视线是因为他曾举报过另一个人，认为那人可能杀害了克里斯滕。后来那个人被排除嫌疑，但巴兹却一直留在警方的视线中。他住在克里斯滕夏天部分时间要住的那条街上。

The first couple of guys that I wanna talk about are ones that made a splash for investigators early on, but then fizzled out pretty quickly. So first was George Williamson, aka Buzz. Now Buzz came on police's radar because he actually made a report about another guy that he thought could have killed Kristen. Now that other guy gets cleared, but Buzz remained on police's radar. He lived on the same street as where Kristen was gonna stay for part of the summer.

此外，他的外貌符合画像描述，也符合心理侧写中的某些特征。他因离婚和争夺监护权而对女性怀有怨恨和敌意。据尼科尔斯探员称，巴兹还声称自己曾在越南执行任务时做过一些极其可怕的事情，比如剖开人的内脏。他甚至有一辆面包车，虽然那辆车是紫色和黄色的，而很多人声称看到过一辆棕色的面包车，因此误认成棕色似乎不太可能。

Plus, he matched both the composite sketches and some points in the psychological profile and was known to be bitter and hateful towards women due to a divorce and custody battle. According to detective Nichols, Buzz also claimed to have done some truly horrific stuff like disemboweling people in Vietnam when he was deployed there. He even had a van, although it was purple and yellow and mistaking it for being brown when so many people claim to have seen a brown van seems unlikely.

是的，紫色和黄色，和棕色差别挺大的。

Yeah. Purple and yellow, quite different.

没错。但尽管这些看起来很可疑，尼科尔斯探长告诉我们，FBI 已经排除了他的嫌疑。最终，他们认定他声称的许多关于掏空他人内脏的说法实际上都是假的。巴兹曾在军队服役，但他从未被派往越南。而他声称自己做过的一切，只不过是他说过的众多谎言之一。

Right. But all of that, like, even though it's suspicious, detective Nichols told us that the FBI has ruled him out. Ultimately, they determined that a lot of the claims he made about disemboweling people were actually false. Buzz had been in the military, but he had never been deployed to Vietnam. And all those claims of, like, what he did were just, like, one of numerous lies that he told.

尼科尔斯探长说，虽然他的这些说法确实令人不安，但他精神状况非常差，经常不断提出无法证实的指控。而且他拥有的那辆面包车，在克里斯滕失踪时他已经卖掉了。接下来是唐纳德·怀特。在克里斯滕的遗体被发现几年后的一次警方采访中，唐纳德谈到了他的朋友。一个名叫拉里·克诺夫的人，他声称以前曾和这个人一起种植大麻。

Detective Nichols said that while, yes, his claims are disturbing, he's also very mentally ill and makes claims all the time that can't be substantiated. Plus that van he owned, he even sold that by the time Kristen went missing. So next up, there was Donald White. In an interview with police a few years after Kristen's body was discovered, Donald talks about his friend. This guy named Larry Knoff, who he claims he used to grow marijuana with.

现在，这两个人在后来发生了严重的决裂。此后，唐纳德的孩子们据称开始回忆起拉里和一个名叫特拉维斯的青少年对他们实施性虐待的经历。他们还声称曾经看到一名女子被困在拉里认识并经常来往的另一个家庭的地下室里。但在我们深入挖掘这些线索之前，需要说明的是，唐纳德和拉里从一开始就没有被真正视为可信的嫌疑人。唐纳德说得头头是道，但当需要核实他故事中的细节时，他却无法做到。根据我掌握的资料，关于谁拥有哪种类型的车辆、谁或谁没有收到刘易斯顿的报纸，这些信息都非常有限。

Now these two guys had a huge falling out after which Don's children allegedly started remembering bouts of sexual abuse from Larry and a teenager named Travis. They also claimed to have seen a woman being trapped in the basement of this other family that Larry allegedly knew and spent time with. But before we even go spiraling down this rabbit hole, neither Donald nor Larry were ever really considered legit suspects to begin with. Donald talked a big game, but when it came time to actually verify details from his story, he couldn't. Based on what I have, there isn't a ton of detail around who owned what type of vehicle and who did or didn't get the Lewiston paper.

我认为这些指控确实非常令人担忧。但如果这些指控无法被证实，那它们就只是存在而已。

And I think these claims are incredibly concerning. But if those claims could not be verified, like, you know, no they're there.

他们是不是只是说唐纳德无法证实这些说法？他有没有真的去找拉里的孩子和家人核实，看看这些事情是否真实？

Did they just say Don couldn't verify the claims, or did he actually check with Larry's kids and family to try to see if all this was real?

嗯，尼科尔斯探长告诉我们，唐纳德所说的那些话，很大程度上是受毒品影响所致。因此，警方只是稍微调查了一下，就得出结论：不，他不是我们要找的人，然后他们就基本上不再关注他了。这就是唐纳德和拉里的情况。

Well, detective Nichols told us that Don's ramblings were immensely drug fueled, she said. And so after just, like, a brief look, they were like, yeah. No. Like, this ain't our guy, and they just kinda moved on. So that's Don and Larry.

我把大部分时间都花在了另一个人身上。这个人起初只是雷达上一闪而过的小点，但也许你马上就会明白为什么我会如此执着于他。让我先描述一下当时的场景。我之前告诉过你，调查人员曾寻找可能作为犯罪现场或肢解发生地的地点，对吧？

I've spent most of my time digging into someone else. Someone who was a blip on the radar, but maybe you'll see why, like, I just am so invested in a second. Let me set the scene. So I told you early on that investigators searched for a place that might be the crime scene or where the dismemberment happened. Right?

小屋、废弃建筑，他们也在当地旅馆和汽车旅馆中进行了搜查。好了，在克里斯滕的遗体被发现后不久，调查人员从刘易斯顿萨卡加维亚旅馆的一名女服务员那里听到了消息。她告诉他们，在1981年6月30日前后，她进入一个房间打扫卫生时，发现了沾满血迹的大浴巾和一块带血的手巾。我可不是在说那种刮胡子时不小心划破的小伤口留下的血迹。

Cabins, abandoned buildings. They were also searching hotels and motels in the area. Well, shortly after Kristen was found, investigators hear from a housekeeper who worked at the Sacagawea Lodge in Lewiston. She tells them that on or around 06/30/1981, she went in to clean one of the rooms, and inside, she found a bloody bath towel and then a bloody hand towel. And I'm not talking about, like, oh, I nicked myself shaving like little dabby dabs.

她声称那条大浴巾几乎完全被血浸透，只有一角是干净的。不过她记不太清楚到底是在哪个房间发现这条毛巾的。当调查人员要求查看这条毛巾时，她说她已经把它交出去清洗了，然后很可能会再次使用。

She claims that the larger towel was completely soaked, save for, like, one corner. Now she couldn't remember exactly which room she found the towel in. And when investigators asked for the towel itself, she's like, oh, I passed it on so it could be washed. And then, like, presumably reuse.

是啊，我刚刚也是这么想的，如果它被那样处理了，那就不可能了。

Yeah. I was just like, if it's being like that no.

没有。这简直是一个完整的支线故事，但我花了这么多时间在这上面。我想对我们所有的听众说，如果你是在酒店服务行业、维修或客房清洁部门工作的，请告诉我你经历过的最可怕的故事，因为我简直无法想象

No. This is like a whole side story, but I spent so much time on this. I want I want all of our listeners, if you work in, like, the hotel service industry, maintenance, housekeeping, I wanna know your most horrific story because I cannot fathom

这听起来应该已经算很夸张了，但她却表现得如此轻描淡写。

This feels like it's gotta be up there, but she's so nonchalant about it.

她表现得就像是又一条沾满血迹的毛巾一样无所谓。我以后肯定要自己带毛巾、床单和所有东西去酒店房间了。我现在已经吓坏了。是的，那条毛巾又被拿回去继续使用了。

That she's just like, another blood soaked towel. Can't wait for I'm the gonna start bringing my own towels and sheets and everything to hotel rooms. I'm like terrified now. Yeah. That towel went back into circulation.

是啊。好，我们回到正题吧。抱歉。

Yeah. Okay. Back on track. Sorry.

所以，好。她发现了这条带血的毛巾。而且，她并没有保留下来，而是把它送走了。

So okay. So she finds this bloody towel. Again, she didn't keep it. She sent it off.

没有人记下房间号码吗？她连具体是哪一天都记不起来了？

And no one is jotting down the room number? She can't remember what day it is?

没有。但这就是我想说的。我觉得他们每天都能见到各种离谱的事情。比如，又一次，一条完全被血浸透的毛巾，他们却觉得无所谓，又过了一天，又赚了一块钱。然后，你知道的，警察来敲门，或者她听说了这起碎尸案。

No. But this that's what I'm saying. Like, I think they see some wild stuff. Like, again, fully blood soaked towel, meh, another day, another dollar, like and then, you know, police come knocking or she hears about this dismembered body.

我当时就在想，不知道发生了什么。

I was like, I wonder.

也许吧。我甚至不知道是不是他们来敲门，或者是她后来从新闻上看到什么，才引发了这一切。可能是因为同一家汽车旅馆里又发现了更多带血的物品。

Maybe. And I don't even know if it was them, like, knocking or or, like, her seeing on the news or something that, like, started this whole thing. It might have been the fact that more bloodied stuff was found at the same motel.

好，那里到底发生了什么？

Okay. What is going on there?

天哪，我，就像，没法告诉你。顺便说一句，这并不是什么偏僻的小公路。我亲切地称它们为凶杀旅馆。

Girl, I, like, couldn't tell you. And by the way, this isn't some, like, remote little highway. I I affectionately call them murder motel.

这正是我所预料的。

Which is exactly what I was expecting.

这就像位于刘易斯顿市中心，就在河边附近。我不是说这像纽约市那样繁华，但它就像一个大型旅馆。

This is like a this is in Downtown Lewiston, which is, like, right by the river. I'm not saying this is, like, New York City, but it's it's like a big hotel.

人们经常看到它。

People see it all the time.

是的。不管怎样，在这家旅馆里，这位女士在7月10日打扫房间时发现一个带衬垫的行李架上有血迹。幸运的是，她记得那间房是273号。我不知道这是否唤起了她的记忆，或者其他什么。我甚至还不知道这些是否来自同一间房还是不同的房间。

Yeah. Anyways, so also at this hotel, this woman finds blood on a padded suitcase stand when she was cleaning over a week later on July 10. Luckily, she remembers that it was in Room 273. And I don't know if this, like, jogged memories or what. I still don't even know if these are in the same different rooms or

在6月30日到7月10日之间，有人看见过那个行李架吗？比如，会不会是同一事件留下的？

Would anyone have seen the suitcase stand between June 30 and July 10? Like, would it be from the same incidents?

我不知道，因为我不清楚那段时间里是否有人住过那间房。或者即使有人住过，他们是否真的把行李架拉出来过，或者是不是他们把它留在外面让客房服务人员看到的？但警方至少一定在考虑这些事情可能是同一回事，而且可能与克里斯汀有关，首先，他们搜查了房间，发现了看起来可能属于克里斯汀的头发样本，联邦调查局对这些样本进行了检测。据尼科尔斯探员说，其中一个头发样本与克里斯汀的头发类型一致，而其他样本则不一致。但我的意思是，我们知道“一致”可能意味着很多东西。

I don't know because I don't know if anyone stayed in that room, like, between those. Or even if they did, did they actually, like, pull that out or did, like, leave it out for for housekeeping to see? But police must be at least considering that this is all the same thing, and it might be related to Kristen because, one, they search the room and it yields hair samples that look like they could be from Kristen, and the FBI do tests on those samples. According to detective Nichols, one hair sample was consistent with Kristen's hair type and the others were not. But, I mean, we know consistent could mean a lot of things.

嗯。

Mhmm.

在案件记录中，这些头发被描述为具有“相同的微观个体特征”，特征，引号结束。引号。比如，这还不够。这不是DNA比对，对吧？

In the case file, the hair is described as having the, quote, same microscopic individual characteristics, characteristics, end end quote. Quote. Like, that's not enough. That's not a DNA comparison. Right?

但这就是1981年头发检测的水平。第二件事是，他们开始调查这个房间，特别是查看在6月30日左右发现带血毛巾之前谁住过那间房。他们发现6月29日，那间房被租给了一个叫皮特·麦德森的人。接待员记得他。她形容他有齐衣领长度的金发，大概五英尺九英寸到五英尺十一英寸高，个子挺高，体重在一百六十到一百八十磅之间。

But that's where the hair testing stood as of 1981. Number two, the other thing is they start looking into the room, and they specifically look at who stayed in that room right before the bloody towel was found on or around June 30. And they found that on June 29, the room had been rented to a Pete Madsen. And the registration clerk remembered him somehow. She described him as having collar length blondish hair, maybe like five nine to five eleven, was tallish, and weighing between a hundred and sixty and a hundred and eighty pounds.

她还坚信自己记得他开的是一辆黄色的奥兹莫比尔（Oldsmobile）汽车。对警察来说幸运的是，她甚至保留着他登记入住时的文件，这些文件中包含他在爱达荷州埃米特（Idaho, Emmett）填写的一个地址，这个地址位于刘易斯顿（Lewiston）以南大约五个小时车程的地方，还有他声称随身携带车辆的信息，比如车牌号码。他甚至写明那是一辆奥兹莫比尔汽车，和前台接待员以为看到的那辆一模一样。但当警方试图查找这个人时，发现这些信息并不真实。警方将注册信息上的车牌号码进行比对后发现，它并不属于一个叫皮特·马德森（Pete Madsen）的人，而是属于一个住在博伊西（Boise）名叫格伦（Glenn）的人。

And she also believes she remembers the car he drove as a yellow Oldsmobile. And lucky for police, she even still had his, like, check-in paperwork, which included an address that he gave in Emmett, Idaho, almost five hours south of Lewiston, and information on the car that he said he had with him, like a license plate number. And he even wrote down it was an Oldsmobile, just like the one the clerk thought she saw. Except when they try and look this guy up, that's not real. Police matched the license plate number on the registration not to a Pete Madsen, but to a guy named Glenn who lived in Boise.

顺便说一句，格伦甚至都不开奥兹莫比尔汽车，他开的是一辆福特（Ford）。但根据他告诉警方的说法，克里斯滕（Kristen）谋杀案发生时，他甚至都不在该州。他说他当时在加利福尼亚参加一个家庭婚礼，并把车留在了家里。所以要么有人偷了那辆车，但我并不太相信这个可能性，因为我们知道现场并没有出现一辆福特车，或者至少没人看到；要么就是有人偷走了车牌。

And by the way, Glenn doesn't even drive an Oldsmobile. He drives a Ford. But according to what he told police, like, he wasn't even in the state when Kristen's murder took place. He said that he was in California going to a family's wedding, and he had left his car behind. So either someone stole it, which I don't really think so because we know it's not a Ford that was there or at least wasn't seen, Or someone stole the just the plate on it.

或者这个人

Or this person

完全是编造出来的。或者，这可能是格伦认识的某个人，碰巧知道他的车牌号码。

just made it up. Or maybe it's someone who Glenn knows who just so happened to know his license plate number.

是的。我的意思是，可能性是无限的。但既然车牌号码这条路走不通，他们就决定专注于这个名字。联邦调查局（FBI）调查了几个叫皮特·马特森（Pete Madson）的人，有Peter J、Peter M、Peter L。

Yeah. I mean, the possibilities are endless. But with the license plate being a bust, they just decide to focus on the name. And there are a few Pete Madsons that the FBI looks into. There's Peter j, Peter m, Peter l.

目前还不清楚这些人中是否有人就是那个皮特·马特森。但根据驾照上的身份信息、身高以及他们与哪些地方的联系来看，联邦调查局似乎初步排除了所有这些皮特·马特森的可能性，这是他们的原话，'初步排除'。而杰姬（Jackie）也无法提供更多关于皮特本人的信息。但在所有这些人中，我想他们花最多时间调查的是皮特·M（Pete M）。虽然这个词有点夸张，因为其实调查的时间非常少，但相对而言，他们还是花最多时间调查了皮特·M。现在，当他们查看这份注册信息上的地址时，我们知道车牌号码是假的。

Now it's not clear if, like, any of these are the Pete Matson. But based on, like, identification from driver's license and height and who has connections to where, it seems like the FBI tentatively rules out, and that's their quote, tentatively rules out all of the Pete Matson's. And Jackie couldn't give us any more information on Pete himself. But of all of them, I think they spent the most time, and most is like generous because it was barely any, but spent the most time on Pete M. Now when they looked at the address that was on this registration, right, we know the plate number is bogus.

这个地址似乎也是假的。因为这个登记在爱达荷州埃米特（Emmett, Idaho）的地址并不属于一个叫皮特·马德森（Pete Madsen）的人，而是登记在另一个人名下。然而，这个人确实认识皮特·马德森，顺便说一句，他开的是一辆较新款的汽车，一辆1970年的奥兹莫比尔。我打算直接从联邦调查局的报告中读一段，因为我觉得这段内容非常有趣。

The address seems to be bogus too. Because this address that was listed for Emmett, Idaho, it doesn't belong to a Pete Madsen. It's registered to someone else. However, this someone else does actually know Pete Madsen, who, by the way, drove a late model car, a 1970 Oldsmobile. And I'm just gonna read from the FBI report because it's super interesting to me.

因此，这个人提到，'皮特·马德森曾在1981年6月左右与他一起住了大约三周时间。1981年6月26日，马德森要么正在前往爱达荷州刘易斯顿（Lewiston, Idaho）的路上，要么就住在他们家里。我这里会隐去名字。他相信马德森大约在1981年6月26日或6月27日离开住所前往爱达荷州莫斯科市（Moscow, Idaho），但记不清具体日期。他表示马德森目前住在爱达荷州莫斯科市，然后他提供了地址。

So this person, quote, advised that Pete Madsen resided with him for approximately three weeks during June 1981. On 06/26/1981, Madsen was either en route to Lewiston, Idaho or was staying with them at their home. I'm redacting the name. Believed that Madsen left his residence to go to Moscow, Idaho around 06:26 eighty one or 06/2781, but could not recall the exact date. He stated that Madsen presently resides at, he gives his address, Moscow, Idaho.

马德森是爱达荷大学的一名学生，正在攻读硕士学位，后面的内容还有很多。所以简单来说，看起来这个皮特·马德森是一个真实存在的人。但至于他是否真的与案件有任何关联，对我来说仍然是个谜。尽管如此，联邦调查局再次表示他们已经初步排除了皮特·马特森的嫌疑。也许这确实是真的。

Madsen is a student at the University of Idaho working on his master's degree, and then it goes on from there. So long story short, it seems like this Pete Madsen is a real person. But, like, if he is connected at all, to me, is still a mystery. Though, again, the FBI says they have tentatively ruled out Pete Matson. So maybe that's true.

但不管你是谁，皮特·马特森，我真的很想听听你的故事。

But Pete Matson, whoever you are, I would love to know your story.

是的。我不认为存在这样一个世界：一个血迹斑斑的行李架和毛巾最后被证明是毫无意义的无聊事件。在这种情况下，这肯定是一件值得关注的事情。

Yeah. I don't think there's a world where a bloody suitcase stand thing and bloody towels turns out to be like an uninteresting nothing burger I know. A thing in this case.

我只想说，侦探尼科尔斯告诉我们，她并不一定认为在行李架上发现的东西是血迹，因为在采集样本的结果中完全没有发现任何东西。而且她一开始就对管家的说法有些怀疑。因为据推测，每次她和警察谈话时，她的故事都变得更加详细，而且刚好合适。比如，一开始她没有报告那条带血的毛巾，然后突然之间出现了带血的毛巾，接着又出现了带血的行李架。甚至后来，她说她在95号高速公路上看到一个男人拿着一辆自行车。

The one thing I'll say is so detective Nichols told us that she doesn't necessarily think what was found on the suitcase stand was blood because there is absolutely nothing on the results of the samples that were taken. And she even has some doubts about the housekeeper's story to begin with. Because I guess each time she talked to the police, her story just got a little more, like, conveniently in-depth. Like, first, she doesn't report the bloody towel, then all of a sudden, there's a bloody towel and then a bloody suitcase stand. And then even later, she said that she saw a man holding a bike on Highway 95.

这似乎每次故事都变得更加详细。而且这些细节与克里斯汀特别吻合，这让侦探尼科尔斯怀疑她是否夸大了事实。尽管如此，我还是无法摆脱这种感觉。就像我有时会有一些小小的直觉一样。我对整个皮特的事情非常着迷。

Like, it just seems like there was more to the story every single time. And it's so specific to Kristen that detective Nichols wonders if maybe she embellished her story. Still, I can't shake it. Like, it's just like I get these like little spidey sense things sometimes. I'm obsessed with this whole Pete thing.

并不是因为皮特·马德森这个人与此事有任何关系。比如，注册信息上的所有内容看起来似乎都是假的。为什么？比如，真的是一个叫皮特·马森的人吗？还是他们只是随便选了一个名字？比如，他们必须知道那个人有一个叫皮特·马森的朋友。

And not because this Pete Madsen guy had anything to do with it. Like, everything on that registration seemed to kind of be bogus. Why? Like, was it really someone named Pete Matson? Or did they just pick like I mean, they would have had to know that that guy had a friend named Pete Matson.

对，就像有很多事情必须完美地契合在一起。

Right. Like, there's like so many things that, like, have to fit perfectly together

我知道。

I know.

才能解释这一切。这看起来太离奇了。

For it to be explained. It seems so fantastical.

但我得告诉你，这虽然和当前的事情无关，但这就是那种犯罪爱好者会关注的支线故事。嗯嗯。所以当我开始对这个皮特·马森着迷的时候，我就在想，皮特·马森是谁？他现在在哪？谷歌一下。

But I'll tell you this this has nothing to do with anything, but this is like one of those crime junkie tangents. Mhmm. So when I got obsessed with this Pete Matson, I'm like, who's Pete Matson? Where is he at now? Google.

你带手机了吗？

Have you do you have your phone with you?

带了。

Yes.

我觉得

I think

你刚刚告诉我要今天自己保管好它。

you just told me to keep it with me today.

你只需要谷歌一下Pete Madsen。

You need to just Google Pete Madsen.

好的，Pete Madsen，没有别的了吗？就只是谷歌一下Pete Madsen。好的。

Okay. Pete Madsen. Nothing else? Just Google Pete Madsen. Okay.

Ashley，我看了这个纪录片。

Ashley, I watched this documentary.

这有多大的可能性？

What are the odds?

所以我甚至无法总结一下，但是Peter Madsen曾经有一艘潜艇。如果我说错了请纠正我，比如，有一个记者上去，采访他关于潜艇的事情，然后上潜艇去兜风，之后就没有回来。

So I can't even, like, summarize it, but Peter Madsen has had, like, a a submarine. And correct me if I'm wrong, like, this journalist comes on and is, like, interviewing him about the submarine and goes on the submarine for, like, a ride and then doesn't come back.

因为Peter Madsen将她肢解了。是的。所以不可能是同一个人。比如，时间线根本对不上。这个世界上的这个人和那个人根本没关系。

Because Peter Madsen dismembered her. Yeah. So cannot it's not the same Peter Madsen. Like, liter like, the timelines don't add up. There is no world in which this guy is that guy.

没错。而且，我说的那个潜艇案件，发生在2017年、2018年左右。

Right. And, like, the the case that I'm talking about with the submarine happened in, like, the like, 2017, 2018,

比如，非常新。

like Very new.

就在不久前。

Pretty recently.

再说一次，这和其他事情毫无关系，但当我用谷歌搜索时，第一个弹出来的是这个，我当时就

Again, has nothing to do with anything, but when I the when I Google and the first thing to pop up is this, I was

像彼得·马德森那样的杀人犯。

like Peter Madsen murderer.

肢解？我

Dismember? I

我当时就在想，这是

was like, what are

什么鬼概率？这太

the freaking odds? It was so

不，这也太离谱了。

No. That's wild.

奇怪。但很明显，之前并没有发生这样的事情。而1981年的皮特·马德森只是警方雷达上的一个小点。当时警方更关注的是像奥蒂斯·图尔和亨利·李·卢卡斯这样的人，他们一出现就引起了注意。

Odd. But, obviously, that didn't happen earlier. And Pete Madsen of 1981 was more of a blip on police's radar. They were far more interested in people like Otis Toole and Henry Lee Lucas as they popped onto the radar.

哦，有哪些案件他们没有出现过？

Oh, what cases haven't they shown up in?

老实说，有朝一日我得专门做一期节目讲他们，因为我真的不知道他们到底确切牵扯到了哪些案件，除了像亚当·沃尔什这样的案件。但这些人简直就是连环自白者。

Honestly, I I need to do an actual episode on them someday because I truly don't know what they have or have not been firmly linked to with the exception of, like, Adam Walsh. But these dudes were, like, serial confessors.

说，做一期节目吧。那将只是一份

Say, do an episode. It would just be a list of

你已经做过的节目主题。

Episodes you've already done.

是的。他们会坦白一些我们已经报道过的罪行，而这些罪行其实跟他们毫无关系。这就可以做一期节目了。

Yeah. Crimes that they confess to that we've already covered and they have nothing to do with. That would be the episode.

尤其是当你遇到涉及肢解的案件时。他们总是会冒出来，特别是在这个时节。但如果你了解他们的一些情况，我觉得他们完全不符合嫌疑人的特征。而且我们也不必在这里胡乱猜测，因为Nichols探长已经告诉我们，他们已经被排除了。警方确实曾花了一些时间调查一个可疑的屠夫，我当时就说了，虽然我们说过在找一个具备医学知识的人，但我们之前讨论过猎人这个方向。

Especially when you have a case where dismemberment was involved. They tend to show always show up, especially around this time. But if you know anything about them, I don't think they fit the profile at all, And there's no point in spiraling here because detective Nichols told us that they too have been ruled out. Now police did spend some time looking into a suspicious butcher, which I was like, Again, I know we said we're looking for someone with medical knowledge, but like we talked about a hunter.

是的。而一个屠夫，也可以说是符合这种知识背景的。

Yeah. And a a butcher would, like, fit into that sort of, like, knowledge base.

特别是当你想到每个肢体都被报纸包裹起来的时候。对我来说，这种做法非常有屠夫风格。

Especially when you think about the fact that each body part was wrapped in newspaper. Like, that feels very butchersque to me.

是的。就像用牛皮纸把肉包起来一样。没错。

Yeah. Like wrapping me in butcher paper. Yeah.

这个人的名字叫Mike Spring。他进入警方视线是因为在1981年9月，他撞坏了自己开的那辆皮卡车，然后离开了事故现场。当一名州警官发现那辆损毁的车时，他在车里发现了好几把大刀。

So this guy, his name is Mike Spring. He comes on the scene because in September 1981, he wrecked his pickup truck but then left the scene of the accident. And when a state trooper found the wreckage, he found several large knives inside.

这东西，对一个屠夫或者肉贩来说，可能并不可疑。

Which, like, might not be suspicious for a butcher or, like, meat cutter.

也许吧。但当警方找到Mike时，他们发现他其实一直使用的是一个完全不同的名字。哦，Jim Blunk，这才是他的真名。所以Mike Spring只是一个化名。

Maybe not. But when they tracked Mike down, they learned that he went by a completely different name. Oh. Jim Blunk, which turned out to be his real name. So Mike Spring was just an alias.

我不太确定当时是什么具体原因让调查人员盯上了他。但当他被问到克里斯滕失踪那天他在做什么时，他声称自己当时不在城里。尽管报告中没有明确说明他的不在场证明是否被证实，但侦探尼科尔斯告诉我们，他们一定是证实了不在场证明，或者发现了其他排除他的理由，因为她表示他确实已经被排除了嫌疑。我之所以去查这个人，是因为我在这类案件中最大的一个想法就是，哪怕几十年前已经做过调查，如果案件仍未解决，也许应该再回头检查一遍。

And I'm not sure what exactly made investigators zero in on him at the time. But when he was asked what he was doing the day that Kristen vanished, he claimed to be out of town. And although there is nothing in the report explicitly stating that his alibi was confirmed, detective Nichols told us that they must have confirmed it or found some other reason to eliminate him because she said that he was definitely eliminated. And I looked him up because, like, my biggest thing in these is, like, just because something was done a bazillion years ago, if something is still unsolved, maybe, like, go back and check.

我想说的是，我觉得这就是那种情况，你可能会问：但我们真的把那个细节确认清楚了吗？我们有多少次说过，‘嗯，他们现在没被提起，所以应该已经被排除了’，但事实往往并非如此。

I was gonna say, like, I feel like this is such a situation where it could be like, but did we cross that t? Like, how many times have we said, like, well, they must have been ruled out because we aren't talking about them today. And, like, that hasn't been the case.

我见过很多正在调查冷案的调查人员，他们的档案中往往留有一些未完全闭合的线索。我就会问，‘你们怎么确定这个人已经被排除嫌疑了？’ 他们就会说，‘哦，我们就是知道啊。’

I've met so many investigators who are working a cold case and the file leaves something open ended. And I'm like, so how do you know this guy's ruled out? And they're like, oh, well, we just know Well,

他们只是继续调查别的了。

they moved on.

他们会说，‘哦，之前有人查过。’ 我就说，‘是的，但具体是怎么查的呢？如果你说不上来是怎么查的？’

He's like, oh, somebody before me did it. I'm like, yeah. But how? And if you can't say how?

那就展示一下你的调查过程吧，对吧？

Like, show your work. Right?

我这么说并不是在指责联邦调查局做错了什么。可能他们确实没有太多疏漏。但对于这些大多数人，我只是去查一下，想看看从1981年到现在，有没有什么事情特别值得注意的。我唯一能找到的关于这个人的记录就是一次酒驾。所以你可以看到，1981年发生了太多事情。

All that to say, I'm not saying that the FBI has that wrong. I probably don't have a lot. But with most of these people, I'm like looking up just to see, hey, has anything happened between 1981 and now that would like stand out? The only record I could find on this guy was like a DUI. So you can see a lot was happening in 1981.

很多男性因为可疑的原因进入了警方的视线。但到了1982年，有人因为写了一首歌而进入了警方的视线。

Lots of men are coming on their radar for nefarious reasons. But then comes 1982. That's when someone comes on their radar for writing a song.

好。一首歌，这听起来像是《犯罪瘾君子》（Crime Junkie）才会提到的情节。

Okay. A song feels like a Crime Junkie first.

我知道。我很高兴还能和你一起发现新的东西。只是有点遗憾是这件事，因为这首歌会让你起鸡皮疙瘩。在1982年，华盛顿州立大学有一个学生写了一首名为《我不想进监狱》的歌曲。而这首歌被印在了一份宣传橄榄球比赛的节目单上。

I know. And I love that I still have firsts with you. Like, just hate that it's this because this song will make your skin crawl. So in 1982, there is this student at Washington State University who wrote a song called I Don't Want to Go to Jail. And this song had been printed in a program promoting a rugby game.

我有歌词，但是，我希望自己假装没事的样子做得还不错。我开始真的感到非常不舒服，嗓子也快哑了。所以如果你不介意的话，我本来打算自己读的，但现在我想让你来读它。

And I have the lyrics, but, like, I hope I'm doing a good job at pretending I'm okay. I'm, like, starting to get really sick and lose my voice. And so if you don't mind, I'm actually I planned on reading it, but I'm gonna have you read it instead.

哦，这真是一首正经的歌。

Oh, this is like a proper song.

是他们印刷出来的。

That they printed.

是的。好，停一下。我受不了了。Ashley，我们之前已经讨论过这个问题了。

Yeah. Okay. Stop. I can't. Ashley, we've talked about this before.

你让我在这些剧集中读过一些最可怕的内容。这次的内容可能会是最夸张的。

You have me read some of the most horrific things on these episodes. This might take Take the cake.

最夸张的。

The cake.

我不想进监狱。我不想进监狱。我认识了一个女孩，我真的很想了解她。我只有几种方式能真正表达给她。我点了一把火，然后把她扔到了火堆上。

I don't want to go to jail. I don't want to go to jail. I met a girl, and I really had to know her. Only a few ways I could really show her. I built a fire and threw her up on top.

当我走开时，她开始噼啪作响。我把她放进浴缸，丢进了一个收音机，当我转身离开时，她开始发光。我邀请她来吃晚饭，在她的食物里放了玻璃碴。当她开始窒息时，鲜血四处喷溅。我把刀刺进了她的子宫壁。

And as I walked away, she began to snap, crackle, and pop. Put her in the bathtub, threw in the radio, and as I turned away, she began to glow. Had her over for dinner, put glass in her food. As she began to choke, the blood really spewed. Jabbed a knife in her uterine wall.

现在她完全不能生育了。我伸手进她喉咙，拽出了一些血管，像敲碎鸡蛋一样砸裂了她的头骨，把她的大脑倒了出来。伙计们，我才读到一半而已。

Now she can't have any children at all. Reached down her throat, and I pulled out some veins, cracked her skull like an egg, and poured out her brains. You guys, I'm only, like, halfway through.

后面还有呢。

It keeps going.

我拿起一把叉子，戳进了她的眼睛。现在她笑不了了，天啊，她连哭都哭不出来。我又拿起一把斧头，把她所有的脚趾都砍了下来。我把这十个脚趾全都塞进了她的鼻子里。我用带刺的铁丝缠住她的脖子，把她扔进河里，就为了看看她会不会漂起来。

I took a fork and stuck it in her eye. Now she can't laugh, and by God, she can't even cry. I took an axe and nipped off all her toes. I took all 10 of them and stuffed them up her nose. I took barbed wire and wrapped it around her throat, threw her in the river just to see if she would float.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

我把她绑起来，然后挖出了她的两只眼睛，在她身上涂满蜂蜜，把她留给苍蝇叮咬。我把她扔进烤箱，把温度调到烧烤模式，当我打开门的时候，她已经粘在加热管上了。我打断了她的双腿，把骨髓全都倒了出来。割下一大块一大块的肉，喂给了麻雀。现在我进了监狱，但我非常非常爱她。

I tied her down and plucked out both of her eyes, smeared her with honey, and left her for the flies. Threw her in the oven, turned it onto broil, and when I opened the door, she was stuck to the coils. Broke both her legs, and I poured out all the marrow. Cut off big hunks of her flesh and fed them to the sparrows. Now I'm in jail, and I love her oh so much.

我留着她的手，这样我们还能保持联系。在纸条的最下方还有一句小字，写着：在智力允许的范围内重复多次。

I kept her hand so we could keep in touch. And then there's a little note at the bottom that says, repeat as many times as intelligence permits.

事情是这样的，这个家伙，显然不只是他一个人写的。他说是他和他的一群朋友一起写的。好的。

So the thing is this I so this guy, apparently, it wasn't just him that wrote it. He said it was him and a group of his buddies. Okay.

为什么？为什么要写这个？另外，这个东西居然被发表出来，用来在学校里宣传体育比赛。这到底是怎么回事？

Why? Why write it? And then also this was published advertising like a sports game at the school. What happened here?

是啊。你到底是怎么想的？你知道的，我们就直接跳过国歌不唱了，直接印这个吧。没错，八十年代真是个混乱的年代。

Yeah. How are you like, you know, we're just gonna like skip over the national anthem. Let's print this instead. For sure. The eighties were a lawless time.

我不会说出这个人的名字。我们调查过他，他没有任何犯罪记录。尼科尔斯探长说这只是这个家伙年轻时干的傻事而已。

And I'm not gonna say this guy's name. We looked into him. No criminal record. Detective Nichols says that this was just this dude being a dumb kid.

一个特别傻的少年？

A really dumb kid?

我同意。我的意思是，你得想想，怎么会这样。不过，不管怎样，这个人是我们这期节目里少数几个真的愿意拿起电话跟我们聊一聊的人之一。他说，听着，这真的是一件特别愚蠢的事。我们当时喝醉了，跟朋友们开个玩笑就写了这个。

I agree. I mean, like, how you have to, like I don't know. But anyways, this guy is one of the few people who actually, like, picked up the phone and talked to us for this episode. He's like, listen, this was a really stupid thing to do. We did it as a joke when I was like drunk with my buddies.

我想他说的大概是写橄榄球队的歌曲是一种传统，而且通常这些歌曲的内容更偏向于涉及性方面。所以我不知道他是不是在用这个理由来为这一页上的内容做辩解。但最后，他跟我们一样，声称自己甚至都不知道克里斯滕·戴维是谁。顺便说一句，尽管这件事已经引起了警方的注意，我知道他们确实知情，但他们从未真正找他谈过话。所以警方显然没有把这件事当回事。

And I guess he says that like writing rugby songs is some kind of tradition and normally they're more sexual in nature. So I don't know if like that was like a justification for what is happening on this page. But he in the end, like, us, he claimed that he didn't even know who Kristen David was. And by the way, that even though this came on police's radar, I know it did, they never actually spoke to him. So they must not have taken this very seriously.

尽管他们从未审问过他，但有一个妇女权益组织在报纸上发表了一篇文章，基本上是在公开指责他所做的一切。

Now even though they never questioned him, there was a women's rights group who wrote an article in the paper basically calling him out for all of this.

好吧。但我还是觉得难以理解的是，警方甚至连跟他谈一谈都没有过。这听起来简直有点荒唐。

Okay. But I'm kind of stuck on the fact that police never even so much as talked to this guy. Like, that seems kind of bonkers.

我知道。他甚至声称，他告诉我们他后悔写了这首歌，但他表示自己甚至不知道自己的名字被提到了。因为据他说，警方根本没有去打听他的情况。也就是说，他甚至都没有听说过这首歌和警方调查这起犯罪之间的联系。不过，我忍不住觉得这首歌与FBI的侧写、以及我们所知道的犯罪现场情况之间有太多相似之处。

I know. He he even claims so, I mean, he told us he regrets writing the song, but he says that he didn't even know that his name had been brought up. Because, I mean, that's how much it's not like they asked around about him or anything. Like, it never even made it back to him that this song made it to police about this crime. But, like, I can't help but see a lot of parallels in this song to the FBI profile, to what we know about the crime scene.

嗯，我觉得你刚才读歌词的时候我应该听一听。因为歌词里确实有非常直接的相似之处。

Well, I feel like you I hope you heard it while I was reading the lyrics. Like, there are, like, very direct parallels.

没错。当然。FBI说他没做任何违法的事。你知道的，我们现在查了他的背景，他没有任何犯罪记录。

Right. And like, sure. Okay. The FBI says that he didn't do anything. You know, he doesn't have a criminal record when we look it up now.

这些都没问题。但我的问题是，他和谁一起写的这首歌？我敢打赌，那些人很可能也完全符合这个画像。关于这件事，我还有很多疑问，但似乎只有我在意。现在有很多像这个年轻人一样的人，出于奇怪的原因被提出来，但不是被认为不值得调查，就是很快被排除嫌疑。

All fine and good. But like, you know, my question is like, who are these people he wrote it with? Like, I bet they would fit square into this profile too. I have a lot of questions still about this, but I seem to be the only one. Now there are more people like this kid who pop up for weird reasons, but who are either deemed not even worth looking into or who quickly get ruled out.

案件档案里到处都是这样的人。但有一个名叫哈里·安曼的人，多年来一直让尼科尔斯探长心存怀疑。哈里最初因1968年一起年轻女孩的性侵和谋杀案被逮捕，但他从关押他的设施中逃脱，并在逃亡多年后一直藏匿。他住在俄勒冈州地狱峡谷的一个偏远小屋里，离爱达荷州刘易斯顿有大约两个小时的车程。在他逃亡期间，他们最终发现他在当地犯下了多起暴力罪行，包括绑架一名妇女。

I mean, the case file is full of them. But there is one guy who detective Nichols is still suspicious of all these years later, a man named Harry Antman. Harry was originally arrested for the sexual assault and murder of a young girl in 1968, but he escaped the facility that he was being held at and remained on the run for years. And he lived in a remote cabin in Hells Canyon, Oregon, which is like two hours from Lewiston, Idaho. Now when he was on the loose, they ended up finding out that he committed several violent crimes in the area, including abducting a woman.

然后他最终于1993年再次被捕，他逃亡了相当长的一段时间。因此，尼科尔斯探长一直怀疑他是否有可能绑架了克里斯滕，把她带到刘易斯顿几小时车程之外的偏远小屋，杀害并肢解了她。尼科尔斯探长甚至提到，哈里有点像一个长期混迹于校园的人，他会去不同的大学上课，只要他有机会，据推测甚至在他藏匿期间也这样做过。因此，他有可能曾去过爱达荷大学，在那里见过克里斯滕。我们还知道，他是个热衷于猎杀大型动物的猎人，以前还开过货车。

And then he finally gets rearrested in 1993, like he was on the run for a long time. So detective Nichols has always wondered if he could have abducted Kristen, taken her to his remote cabin hours away from Lewiston, killed her, and dismembered her there. Detective Nichols even says that Harry was somewhat of a career student, like he would go to various colleges and take classes when he could, presumably even while he was in hiding. So it's possible that he could have gone to the University of Idaho where he saw Kristen. We also know that he was a big game hunter and previously had driven vans.

尽管目前还不清楚他在克里斯滕失踪时是否真的驾驶过一辆棕色货车。不幸的是，他已经不在人世了，无法再问清楚。尽管尼科尔斯探长一直对他心存怀疑，但他于1994年自杀身亡。

Although it's still unknown if he actually drove a brown van at the time of Kristen's disappearance. And unfortunately, he's not around to even ask anymore as much as detective Nichols was suspicious of him. He died by suicide in 1994.

所以我得问一下，因为他是那个把我们带到这儿来的人。兰斯·沃斯有出现在克里斯汀的任何案件档案中吗？

So I have to ask because it's kind of the guy who brought us here. Does Lance Voss ever show up in any of Kristen's case files?

这正是我觉得特别有意思的地方。没有。兰斯，如果你没听过上周的内容，他就是那个大家经常提到的人，和这个地区发生的许多罪案、失踪以及谋杀案都有关系。

So that's what's so interesting to me. No. Lance, if you didn't listen to last week, he is this guy that everyone talks about in connection with a lot of the crimes that were happening in this area, disappearances, murders.

克里斯汀的案件在很多方面也被归为其中一例。

Which is, like, Kristen gets lumped into in a lot of them.

据我所见，他的名字一次都没有被提到过，这至少对我来说，证实了她很可能与山谷地区其他谋杀案和失踪案无关。但不知为何，就像你说的，她总是被归为一类。我认为这可能会造成真正的伤害。你知道吗？比如，也许有人没有提供信息，因为公众有先入为主的观念，或者公众认为警方一定也在这么想。

He is not mentioned once in what I've seen, which really, at least for me, confirms that she's probably not related to the other murders and disappearances in the Valley. But for some reason, like you said, she keeps getting lumped in. And I think that can cause real harm. You know? Like, maybe someone hasn't come forward with information because the public has tunnel vision or the public thinks like, police must be thinking this is right.

他们不一定认为他真的对克里斯汀做了什么。但那并不意味着她的案件与其他案件无关。也许我们只是找错了嫌疑人。肢解是一种非常特殊的手法。嗯哼。

They don't think necessarily that he did anything to Kristen. But that is not to say that her case isn't connected to others. Maybe we're just looking at the wrong suspect. Dismemberment is a very specific method. Mhmm.

她死后对她身体的处理方式非常特别，这感觉不像是突然发生的一次性事件。在同一时期，太平洋西北地区还有其他几起肢解案件。但也许我们对这个人的侧写中有一部分是错的，比如他是否是本地人？我知道侧写中有一部分提到，他可能对这一带比较熟悉。我想说的是，也许他曾经短暂地在当地待过，比如说，曾经驻扎在附近，但他经常到处调动？

What was done to her body in death was specific, and this does not feel like something that just happened as a one off out of the blue. There are other dismemberment cases in the Pacific Northwest area around this time frame. But what if one part of the profile that's wrong is the part about this guy being local? And I know there was a part in the profile that suggests, like, maybe he, like, like, knew the area for a little bit. Like, what I think is, like, what if he was local for a minute, say, like, stationed nearby, but he moved around?

因为最近我在调查一名前军人。他在军队中的具体工作是医学实验室专家。看起来他每到一个地方，那里就会出现被肢解的女性尸体。科罗拉多、南卡罗来纳、爱达荷、威斯康星、伊利诺伊、佐治亚州，这些地方都曾发现被精确肢解的尸体，常常在水域附近留下塑料袋，但并非总是如此。这些女性在被肢解前的死亡方式也有特定的模式。

Because recently, I've been looking into a former military man. His specific job in the military was as a medical lab specialist. And it seems like wherever this guy traveled, dismembered women showed up. Colorado, South Carolina, Idaho, Wisconsin, Illinois, Georgia, dismembered with precision, plastic bags often left around water, but not always. Specific ways in which the women were killed before they were dismembered.

我不会详细讲述其他案件，因为我还不能百分之百确定它们是否全部有关联，或者是否都与这个人有关。但我发现非常有趣的是，这个在2025年Facebook上看起来幸福美满的居家男人，其实在早年驻扎海外时曾在军事基地被指控谋杀。他因为技术性原因被释放，之后继续服役并被调往全国各地。顺便说一句，如果你像我一样去查他的犯罪记录，你根本查不到，这部分是我无法理解的。我不知道为什么这些信息都查不到，尽管我知道其他机构曾经找他谈过。另外，我还发现一件非常有意思的事，多年后，他的儿子后来也因一桩残忍的谋杀案被判刑，他对他的父亲和成长经历也发表了一些特别的看法。

I'm not gonna go into detail on the other cases because I can't say a 100% that they are all connected or connected to this man yet, but I find it very interesting that this happy looking family man on Facebook in 2025 was actually charged with murder on a military base in his early years while stationed overseas. He got off on a technicality and continued to serve and be transferred all over the country. And by the way, if you look this guy up the way I've been looking up other people to, like, look at his criminal record, there is not one that pops up, which that's the part I can't wrap my head around. I don't know why none of this is showing up even though I know other agencies have talked to him. And, also, I found it really interesting that years down the line, his son was later convicted of a brutal murder, and he had some choice things to say about his dad and his upbringing.

听着，我知道我说得有点模糊，但那是因为我目前还不能透露太多。我通常不会这么早就把各位犯罪迷们带进来，但我这次想尝试点新的东西。你们已经证明了自己是非常宝贵的资源，你们所有人的眼睛、耳朵和大脑加在一起，比我一个人埋头研究几个月都管用，而我自己的研究也并没有停止。但我现在需要的是：我正在寻找更多可能具有类似作案手法的案件。

And listen, I know I am being vague, but it is because I can't say much yet. I usually don't bring all of our crime junkies in until way later in the investigation, but I actually wanna try something new. You guys have proven to be an invaluable resource, and all of your eyes and ears and brains combined is better than months of my own heads down researching alone, which I am still not stopping. But here's what I need. I'm looking for more cases that could fit into a similar MO.

寻找发生在七十年代、八十年代、九十年代，甚至两千年初的案件。我们要找的是被肢解、用垃圾袋包裹，并且尸体上有毁损痕迹的女性谋杀案。特别是那些在肢解之外还被切除了身体其他部位的案件，或者即使在受害者遗体被找到后，仍然缺少部分肢体或身体部位的案件。你想到的案件可能刚好符合我提到的部分甚至全部特征。如果你知道你所在地区有这样的案件，请发送邮件至 tips@audiochuck.com。

Cases that happened in the seventies, eighties, nineties, maybe in the early two thousands. We're looking for murdered women who were dismembered, bound in trash bags, and whose bodies might have showed signs of mutilation. Specifically cases where body parts were cut off in addition to the dismemberment or cases where even after the remains of the victims were recovered, parts of the limb or part of the victim was still missing. The case you're thinking of might just fit some or even all of what I mentioned. But if you know of one in your area that is close to what I said, please email tips@audiochuck.com.

克里斯汀的案件很可能确实与我正在调查的那个军人无关。但无论谁杀了她，我都必须相信他是早于或晚于军人案件的时间段作案的。无论克里斯汀是否有关联，现在确实有人在调查她的案件。探员尼科尔斯告诉我们，FBI主导的检测工作至今仍在继续，尤其是那些报纸。如果有人能提供有用的线索，他们也会非常感激，这有助于推动他们的调查。

There is a very real possibility that Kristen's case isn't connected to the military man I'm looking into. But whoever killed her, I have to believe that he did it before or after. And whether Kristen is connected or not, people are looking into her case. Detective Nichols told us that testing led by the FBI continues to this day, especially on those newspapers. And they wouldn't hate a helpful tip to nudge their investigation along.

因此，如果你对克里斯汀的谋杀案有具体的了解，或者你认为某人值得调查，请联系位于盐湖城的FBI办公室。记住嫌疑人的画像：他当时应该还很年轻，听起来可能有点自恋狂，而且他所到之处很可能还发生过其他谋杀案。也许他拥有一辆较新型的汽车，或者他曾经拥有一辆棕色面包车。

So if you know something specifically about Kristen's murder or someone you think might be worth looking into, reach out to the FBI office in Salt Lake City. Remember the profile. He would have been young, sounds like maybe a bit of a narcissist, And there are likely other murders that have popped up wherever he goes. Maybe he owned a late model vehicle. Maybe he has or had a brown van.

也许他无意中透露过什么，而你现在听我讲到这里突然想起来了。如果是这样，请联系FBI并告诉我们。我们正在持续追踪和报道这个故事，所以我们非常希望听到你的消息。再次提醒，你可以通过audiochuck.com提交线索，我们也会在本集的节目说明中提供FBI的联系方式。你可以在我们的网站crimejunkiepodcast.com上找到本集的所有参考资料。

Maybe he let something slip and you're remembering it now as I'm talking. If that's you, reach out to the FBI and let us know too. This is a story we're actively following and reporting, so we would love to hear from you. Again, that is tips at audiochuck.com, and we'll have the FBI's contact info in the episode notes. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com.

你也可以在Instagram上关注我们：crime junkie podcast。

And you can follow us on Instagram at crime junkie podcast.

我们下周将带来一集全新的节目，不过现在还有一些好消息要告诉你。所以请继续收听接下来的好消息环节。好了，布里特，我们这一个月真是收获颇丰，内容非常丰富。

And we're gonna be back next week with a brand new episode, but we have some good for you. So stick around for the good segment. Alright, Britt. We've had quite the month. Lots of content.

我已经准备好听点好消息了。

I am ready for a little bit of good news.

马上就有。

You've got it.

哦，这一条看起来挺长的。

Oh, this one looks long.

我觉得是个不错的消息。

It's it's a good one, I think.

好的，我很期待。

Okay. I'm excited.

嗨，Britt 和 Ashley。我叫 Lissandra，我四个星期前才开始追《犯罪心理》（Crime Junkie），现在差不多看完了。

Hi, Britt and Ashley. My name is Lissandra, and I just started binging Crime Junkie four weeks ago. I'm almost done.

哦，欢迎加入。

Oh, welcome.

我需要加入粉丝俱乐部才能收听更多剧集。是的，你们一定要加入。昨天你本来可以救我一命的。我今年18岁，和许多其他青少年一样，是社交媒体的忠实用户。

And I need to join the fan club for more episodes. Yes. You do. And yesterday, you could have saved my life. I'm 18 years old and an avid user of social media like many other teenagers.

几周前我在一个约会软件上认识了一个男生，我叫他Jerry，我们聊得很投机。Jerry 比我大一岁，住在同一个城市，甚至大学专业也一样，都是传媒。他约我在一家酒吧见面，并说因为暴风雪会晚到几分钟。我来自加拿大，所以我们的法定饮酒年龄较低。我在那里等了大约半小时，直到他发短信说他的车打滑了，但会尽快赶来。

I met a guy, I'll refer to him as Jerry, on a dating app a few weeks ago, and we hit it off. Jerry was a year older than me, lives in the same city, and even shared a common major for college, communications. He asked to meet me at a bar and said he'd be a few minutes late because of a snowstorm. I'm from Canada, so our legal drinking age is younger. I sat there for about a half hour until he texted that his car had spun out, but he would be there ASAP.

我一直坐在酒吧等他，因为酒吧兼餐厅不允许人不到齐就占桌。这时一个女孩走过来和我搭话，我们开始聊天。她评论了我的戒指，还问我喜欢什么类型的音乐，这是一个典型的女生试探你是不是女同性恋的套路，而我确实是双性恋。我们又聊了一个小时，之后她邀请我去她家坐坐。就在十分钟前，Jerry 给我发短信说因为下雪和车坏了，他来不了了。

I'd been sitting at the bar waiting for him since the bar slash restaurant wouldn't let us get a table without everyone there. A girl came up to me, we started talking. She commented on my rings and asked about my taste in music, a classic girl trying to figure out if you're a lesbian move, which I'm bi. So we talked for another hour before she invited me to go back to her place and hang out. Jerry had texted me about ten minutes before and said he wouldn't be able to it because of the snow and damage to his car.

天哪，这不会又是一个‘火球’事件吧？加拿大版？

Oh my god. Is this like a fireball situation all over again? Canada edition?

因为对方是个女生，我完全放松了警惕。就在我们正准备一起离开时，座位稍远一点的一个男生点了一杯火球酒。

Since it was a girl, I was totally comfortable and had my guard down. Right as we were about to leave together, some guy a few seats down ordered a fireball shot.

别说了

Shut the

我的心跳都停了。你们那期关于火球酒绑架案的节目立刻浮现在我脑海里，我立刻找了个借口去洗手间。我等了大约十五分钟，然后走出来时

And my heart stopped. Your episode on the fireball abductions immediately came flooding back to me, and I immediately made an excuse to go to the bathroom. I waited for about fifteen minutes, and when I walked out,

她已经不见了。这可能就

she was gone. It could have

我本来可能是一个完全无辜的、爱调情的女孩，但因为你们，我没有抓住那个机会。我想分享一下，以防其他LGBTQ+的女孩们也在怀疑这些人口贩子是否已经引起了女性的警觉，但我意识到另一个女孩可能会放松对我们的戒备。所以谢谢你，Ashley 和 Britt，感谢你们提供了让我保护自己的信息。你们太棒了。

been a perfectly innocent flirting girl, but because of you, I didn't take that chance. I wanted to share in case other LGBTQ plus girlies wonder if these traffickers caught onto women's suspicions but realized that another girl would have our guard down. So thank you, Ashley and Britt, for giving me the information I need to keep myself safe. You guys are amazing.

哦，全身都起鸡皮疙瘩了。

Oh, full body chill.

就像，这已经是一个我觉得我们在很多信息中经常看到的故事，比如那些传来的信息，比如，哦，我记得这一集。而且，我觉得它已经保护了我，但没想到它真的会

Like, this is already a story that I feel like we see a lot in, like, the messages that come through, like, oh, I remember this episode. And, like, I feel like it kept me safe, but for it to be

一个特别具体的例子。

A specific one.

一个火球射过来的感觉，就像我瞬间停下了脚步。

A fireball shot was just like I stopped in my tracks.

太疯狂了。再说一次，有些人可能会说，天哪，什么也没发生。但重点就在这儿。我才不在乎呢。

That's wild. And again, like, some people would be like, oh my god. Nothing happened. That's the point. I don't care.

不管那是什么，我希望——我希望永远什么都别发生。希望我们再也做不完这一集集。

Whatever it was, I hope I I hope nothing ever happens. I hope we run out of episodes.

绝对同意。

A thousand percent.

我太喜欢了。《犯罪瘾君子》是音频Chuck制作的。所以你怎么看，Chuck？你同意吗？

I love it. Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?