算法如何改变我们的说话方式

你能给我们读一下你新书的目录吗？

Can you read the table of contents for your new book to us?

当然。引言：为什么你的孩子活在直播里，如何玩语言打地鼠游戏，为Rizzler挺身而出。不。因为你的注意力怎么了？为什么？

Sure. Introduction, why your kids are saying on a live, how to play linguistic whack a mole, sticking out your for the Rizzler. No. Because what happened to your attention? Why?

每个人在网上听起来都一样。算法真的很懂我。词汇药丸俚语最大化。这是在搞挪用。我们今年夏天穿什么？

Everybody sounds the same online. The algorithm really knows me. Word pilled slang maxing. It's giving appropriation. What are we wearing this summer?

好吧，老古董。最后，我们完蛋了吗？

Okay, boomer. And finally, are we cooked?

这里是《文化研究播客》，我是安妮·海伦·彼得森。

This is the Culture Study Podcast, and I'm Anne Helen Peterson.

我是亚当·马莱克塞克。我是语言学家、内容创作者，也是新书《算法语言：社交媒体如何改变语言的未来》的作者。

And I'm Adam Maleksek. I'm a linguist content creator and author of the new book, Algo Speak, How Social Media is Transforming the Future of Language.

好的。当我听说你的书时，我就觉得，哦，这太完美了。我们前几天刚录了一期关于口音和方言的节目，和一位语言学家，但我们没有讨论网络用语、网络俚语、表情包这些东西是如何真正渗透进我们今天的说话方式的。像我这样44岁的人，对这些并不精通。我是从我朋友的孩子那里学到这些的。

Alright. So when I heard about your book, I was like, oh, this is so perfect. We actually just recorded an episode the other day about accents and dialects with a linguist, but we didn't talk about the way that Internet talk and Internet slang and memes and all those sorts of things are really infiltrating the way that we speak today. And someone who is my age, I'm 44, is not an expert in all of this. Like, I learn all of these things from my friend's kids.

比如，我就是这样听说Riz的。

Like, that's how I heard about Riz.

这就是你必须保持联系的地方。我必须不断确保自己在关注初中生们在说什么。否则，你就真的脱节了。是的。

You that's where you have to be tapped into. I I have to, like, constantly make sure I'm keeping a pulse check on what the middle schoolers are saying. Otherwise, you you're not actually tapped in. Yeah.

好的。那么作为一名语言学家，你最初是如何对网络俚语及其在现实中的出现产生兴趣的？

Okay. So as a linguist, how did you first get interested in Internet slang and how it shows up offline?

我对语言学感兴趣已经有一段时间了。大学时学了语言学，开始制作语言学视频。后来我逐渐对互联网如何影响语言产生了浓厚兴趣，因为我也是一名内容创作者。我感受到自己的表达方式在算法面前不断调整，意识到有些话不能说，有些话则被迫要说。

I've been interested in linguistics for a while. Studied linguistics in college and started making linguistics videos. And then I started getting really interested in how the Internet affects speech because I'm also a content creator. And I felt my own speech rerouting around the algorithm and understanding, wow, I can't say certain things. I feel pressured to say other things.

没错。

Yep.

随着深入研究，我越发觉得算法是语言演变的新型底层架构，这非常迷人。俚语本身也很有趣，因为语言传播的渠道正是文化变革的管道。如果你观察词汇来源的模式，会发现其中蕴含着耐人寻味的现象。

And then the more I looked into it, the more I'm I'm thinking, wow, algorithms are this new infrastructure underlying language change. That's fascinating. And slang also is just interesting separately because the conduits of where language comes from is also the conduits of how our culture is being changed. There's And something really interesting there if you look at the patterns of where our words are coming from.

是啊。我在BuzzFeed当记者时特别有意思，我们经常做标题AB测试之类的工作。有时候得试探性地尝试：这个俚语能用吗？目标受众能理解吗？

Yeah. So, you know, I used to work at BuzzFeed as a journalist, and it was so interesting. We always did, like, AB testing with different headlines and that sort of thing. And, like, sometimes you had to really test the waters in terms of like, oh, can we use a slang term? Will this parse for like the audience that we're trying to reach?

某个短语一旦见效——尤其是清单类内容——所有标题都会跟风使用。直到用得泛滥成灾失去本意，或者用现在的话说变得'尴尬'。不过现在年轻人都不说这个词了，因为成年人开始用了。

And then once a phrase started working, and this was especially true with like the more like, list level stuff, all the headlines were using it. Right? To the point that it got, like, like, you used it all the time to the point that it didn't it wasn't meaningful anymore, or it was, as we would say now, cringe, which actually, I feel like we like, kids don't say that anymore because now older adults say cringe.

标题AB测试很有意思，因为社交媒体依赖耸动效应。这些平台的逻辑就是最大化吸引注意力，从而将注意力商品化——贩卖用户数据、投放广告。它们内置了注意力激励机制。

The AB testing your headlines is is fascinating because social media relies on sensationalism. The logic of these platforms is let's get as much attention as possible so we can commodify that attention, sell people's data, sell them ads. Right? That's what these platforms do. They bake in attention incentives.

现在网红必须关注留存率、观看时长、点赞评论转发等指标。这种影响已蔓延到社交媒体之外——连《纽约时报》都在做标题AB测试，很多人不知道记者其实不能自拟标题。

And now influencers have to think about metrics like retention, how long people watch your videos, or things like likes, comments, shares. And it's unavoidable even off of social media. Even if you're not, The New York Times now also AB test its headlines. This is something people don't know that. Journalists can't choose their own headlines.

他们会实时测试哪个标题点击量高就选用哪个，这显然违背了《纽约时报》标榜的客观报道原则。但在社交媒体时代，这种做法又不可避免。

They go with the headline that they think gets the most clicks, and then they actively test in real time. And then they go with the headline that gets more clicks. And that doesn't feel like neutral objective reporting, which is the supposedly commission of The New York Times. Right? So but it's also necessary in the social media age.

BuzzFeed这类原生社交媒体公司最先深谙此道，但现实是我们必须比过去更懂得抓取注意力。

And, you know, it starts with companies like BuzzFeed, which are social media first, and they they understand uniquely how to operate in that ecosystem. But the fact of the matter is we have to be communicating in a way that grabs more attention than maybe in the past.

是啊，回想传统报纸的标题总是描述性的，因为那时已经锁定了读者注意力。

Yeah. And I think, like, back to the headlines that we used to use like, used to see in print newspapers. Right? It was always very much descriptive because you already had their attention captured. Right?

他们当时正坐在报纸前。是的，可能会快速浏览一则新闻又转向另一则，但内容大概就是‘当地男子遇见狗’这类。如果有配图，图片会传递信息，导语也会发挥作用——就是开篇第一句话。

They were sitting in front of newspaper. And, yeah, like, maybe they would gloss a story and one over another, but it'd be like, local man meets dog. And the image would be doing work if there was an image accompanying it, and the lead would be doing some work. Like, that's the first sentence

注意力始终是人类对事物产生兴趣的必要条件。就像老师要传达概念仍需吸引学生注意力。作为教育内容创作者，我感觉这种需求可能更强烈了。最贴切的类比或许是19世纪的黄色新闻，本质上就是报纸时代的点击诱饵和愤怒诱饵，类似现在网上看到的那些东西。

of it. Attention's always been necessary for humans to be interested in something. Like, a teacher still has to get attention from their students if they wanna convey a concept. And I, as an educational creator, I feel like maybe that's compounded a little bit. Maybe the closest analogy is, like, yellow journalism in the nineteenth century, which is essentially, like, the newspaper equivalent of clickbait and rage bait, which is stuff, you know, you see online now.

完全同意。你怎么看标题设计？作为内容创作者，你肯定特别敏感——甚至不是视频标题，而是那种静态画面，叫什么来着？

Oh, totally. How do you see headlines? And even, you know, I think you're particularly attuned to this as a content creator. Not even the titles of videos, but what comes up like the the frozen screen. What's the name for that?

就是刷TikTok或YouTube时出现的带文字的画面。缩略图？对，缩略图。我看到那些...其实不一定是

Like, the screen that appears when you're going through TikTok or when you're going through YouTube with, like, text on it. The thumbnail? Yeah. Like, the thumbnail. Like, that has and it like, I see those you like, it's not necessarily the

你原本起的标题。他们还会测试缩略图效果，进行A/B测试，看哪个版本在特定时间段内获得更多互动，最后选用表现好的那个。确实如此。

title you gave. Test their thumbnails also. They AB test that. They see which one is getting more engagement over this interval of time, and then they go with that one as well. So it's Yeah.

这些都是幕后操作。当你点击内容、被动观看或处于无意识滑动状态时，根本不会用分析视角看待所消费的内容。但即便看似非营销场景，仍有层层营销策略在影响你。

All behind the scenes, you know, where you don't really think about this stuff when you're clicking on things or passively watching or when you're in this scroll state where you don't really have this analytical lens turned on about what you're consuming. But there's all these layers of marketing being thrown at you even when it doesn't seem like it's marketing.

你在书里提到——我深有体会因为出版流程不同于网络发布——写完书要经历校对、漫长的出版准备期，所以有些内容写出来感觉像是去年的事了。

So in your book, you talk about how and I have experienced this because the way the publishing works, it's not like publishing on the Internet. Right? Like, you you finish your book, and then it has to go through copy edits, then and it has, like, the long ramp up to publication. So there's things that you write about that seem last year ish.

确实。比如书中讨论的‘Rizzler’梗来自2023年10月。幸好这不是本解释网络热词的书，而是探究所有语言演化必经的算法媒介，描绘这种新型语言演变基础设施的蓝图。

Totally. I mean, the the chapter sticking out your for the Rizzler, that's a meme from October 2023. It's thankfully not a book about, you know, what these words mean or, like, the words themselves. It's sort of more of an exploration into the algorithmic medium that all language now evolves through. Sort of laying out this picture, this blueprint of this is now an infrastructure underlying how language evolves.

算法将影响所有词汇，而‘Rizzler’现象正是绝佳案例：当某个词流行时，创作者会加入趋势使其更病毒式传播→更多人感知→形成真实风潮→算法进一步推送→吸引更多创作者加入，形成正向反馈循环。

The algorithm is going to be affecting all words and this Rizzler thing is a case study that we can look at that's actually really useful for understanding, oh, wow. If a word is trending, creators will hop onto that trend and then make it more viral than it otherwise would have been. And then it be like, more people are perceiving it. It becomes more of a genuine fascination, which the algorithm then pushes more, which more creators hop onto. And so it's a positive feedback loop.

这种模式在Rizzler歌曲和skibbidi现象中可见，现在仍在继续。意大利脑瘫梗如此，当下迪拜爆款、La boo boo、抹茶表演性邮寄梗也是——不知道你刷没刷到过这些TikTok内容。

And that pattern we saw with the Rizzler song and the skibbidi stuff, that's still ongoing. It happened with Italian brain rot. It's happening now with the Dubai, La boo boo, crumble cookie, matcha, performative mail memes. I don't know if you're on that side of TikTok.

只有因为你我才知道这件事。不过确实如此。

Only I only know about it because of you. But yes.

但这种现象就像永不停歇的跑步机——词汇先引发关注，创作者跟风追逐潮流，随后这些词就变成了‘脑腐’。这是我们不断目睹的循环模式。

But that there's constantly sort of this treadmill happening of words are engaging and then creators hop onto these trends, and then they become brain rot. And that's that's kind of a pattern we keep on seeing.

在继续之前，我想先定义下‘脑腐’，因为我认为这个概念...没错

Before we move forward, I do wanna define brain rot because I think that that is something Yes.

这非常重要。是的。

That's very important. Yeah.

人们经常随意使用这个没有明确定义的词。你是怎么理解它的？

That people kinda throw around that isn't well defined. So how do you think about it?

存在几种定义，认识到这点很关键。有些人用它指代腐蚀大脑的事物。嗯。但我认为这是较少使用的定义。更常见的用法是指向一种无意义重复的迷因美学。

There's a few definitions and it's important to recognize that. Some people use it in the sense of something that rots your brain. Mhmm. However, I think that's the less used definition. I think it's more frequently referring to a meme aesthetic of nonsensical repetition.

对。就像是荒谬过载的俚语集合。当你说‘skippity risk yacht Ohio’时，这就是‘脑腐’，因为这些词毫无意义，但它们的滑稽性恰恰源于对算法过度饱和的映射。‘Dubai chocolate, love boo boo crumble cookie’之所以好笑，是因为它们属于那类指向消费主义的词汇，同时也在讽刺我们正被消费主义语言淹没的事实——这本质上是对算法强加给我们这些词汇的元批判。

Yeah. They're sort of an absurd oversaturation of slang words. When you say skippity risk yacht Ohio, that's brain rot because those words don't really mean anything, but because they're funny because they're in this class of words that point back to algorithmic oversaturation. When you say Dubai chocolate, love boo boo crumble cookie, that's funny because they're in this class of words that points back to consumption, but at the same time, the fact that we're inundated with consumptive language. And it's it's sort of a meta critique of the fact that these words are being thrown at us by the algorithm.

没错。我们后续提问环节还会深入探讨，比如广告商如何挪用这些词汇刺激消费，以及随之产生的讽刺现象。现在让我们从第一个问题开始，过程中可以继续补充定义。这个问题来自奎恩。

Yeah. And we're gonna get in our questions as we go through. We're gonna talk a little bit more too about how these words get co opted by advertisers to entice more consumption, and then that gets satirized as well. So let's start with our first question, and I think we can continue to define terms as we go along. One comes from Quinn.

我日常生活中观察到两种网络用语的溢出效应：第一种主要源自迷因，那些夸张恼人的梗常被用作代际玩笑或喜剧素材；第二种则是更微妙的语法句法变化，标志着特定社群的亚文化身份。虽然第一种常被拿来佐证‘看不懂现在的年轻人’，但我怀疑真正影响现实人际沟通的是第二种——这些细微的语言变迁如何塑造具有社会政治影响力的内部社群？

There seems to be two forms of Internet spillover that I've seen in my everyday life. The first seems to come primarily from memes, the bloud, kind of obnoxious references that very often get used as intergenerational jokes or for comedy, while the second comes from more subtle shifts the site specific changes in grammar and syntax that indicate an in group or a subculture. While the first is what I usually see pointed at for I can't understand the youth these days purposes, I'm wondering if it's the second that actually has more impact on communication in real life and in person, and how the subtle language shifts contribute to creating in groups with actual social and political consequences?

好吧。这是个相当硬核的语言学问题。你怎么...

Alright. This is a a pretty nerdy linguistics question. What do you

不得不说这是个极其敏锐的观察。存在那些未知因素，也存在我们可以明确指出的现象——比如初中生说‘skibby’这种网络热词，就是社交媒体改变语言的鲜明例证。

make out that's an incredibly astute observation. There's the no knowns. There's the stuff we can point at and be like, yeah. There's middle schoolers saying skibby. That's a clear example of social media changing your language.

但更潜移默化的是那种难以言明的氛围感。比如我和朋友在酒吧时，电台播放着抖音神曲，这首歌此刻正影响着我们的心境。我们都知道音乐会改变现场氛围——音乐一停，气氛立刻不同。所以即便线下场景，音乐也是即时感知的情绪载体。但你会听到这首歌，它此刻能影响你思绪，仅仅因为它在抖音上是段30秒的爆款音频。

But it's the more subconscious even, like, vibes that you feel. The fact that when I'm in a bar with my friend and there's a TikTok song playing on the radio and that TikTok song is now affecting our headspace, I mean, we know music changes of your actual vibe in the situation. If the music turns off, suddenly the vibe shifts. So the the music is a vibe that you feel in that exact moment even when you're offline. But that song, you're only hearing it and it's only affecting your headspace in that moment because it was a good thirty second sound bite for TikTok.

这意味着什么？意味着社交媒体正在实时重塑我们的心理空间。可能因为刷抖音，我和朋友都会哼这首歌，这增强了我们的共鸣；也可能有人不会唱，无形中就产生了群体区隔。这些基于微妙氛围的线下群体划分，往往难以明确归因——语言学家能清晰追踪显性词汇变迁，但那些隐性影响呢？

So what does that mean that that's affecting our our headspace in that moment? And maybe now maybe I can sing along to the song because I'm on TikTok and my friend can too and that affects our ability to relate to each other. Maybe my friend can't sing along to the song and now we're in a different group and it, like, it can define in groups and out groups in subtle vibe based ways offline where we can't even point to the sort of the unknowns. Right. You can easily see the knowns from the the the words that stick out in linguistics.

语言学中有‘凸显性词汇’概念，比如‘脑雾’这种明显异化的热词。但社交媒体还暗中普及了大量俚语和语法结构——比如‘low key’过去三年悄然变成了副词。它虽源自非裔美国英语，但真正成为主流表达却是悄无声息的。

We have the concept of obtrusivity words that poke out more that you can point at and it the brain rot is a great example that we literally semantically distinguish these words as like different or special. At the same time, social media popularizes a lot of slang words and grammatical structures that are under the radar. The word low key became an adverb in the last like three years and Right. I mean, it was sort of circulating in African American English but it really became mainstream. And that was a low key.

这正是词汇隐性演变的典型案例。没人觉得‘low key’是语言污染，但它已悄然影响着Z世代和α世代的词汇库。还有那些微小语法结构变化，比如‘It's giving...’‘not you...’这类表达，虽不明显却真实存在。

It was literally a low key example of a word changing subtly. It wasn't thought of as brain rot, but it's now affecting the vocabularies of every, like, gen z and gen alpha person. There's, like, small grammatical structures. It's giving, you know, the way you blank, not you blank. It's all these are also less obvious, but they're still there.

你提到的例子让我想到一个更高调的语言现象——‘vibes’的流行。五年前几乎没人说‘氛围很好/很差’。我记得最早是2021年左右有篇关于‘氛围转变’的文章，描述曼哈顿某种难以名状的变化，后来我们才知道那是Z世代右倾思潮。当时唯一能描述这种变化的词就是‘vibe shift’。

So I love that in your answer, you use something that I think has actually happened more in a high key way, which is the use of vibes. So I think even five years ago, people were not saying the vibes are bad, the vibes are good. Yeah. Like and I see it, like, at first, one of the first examples that I can remember is, like, there was an article, I think, in, like, 2021, 2022 about the vibe shift. Right?

现在这个词已被记者、播客广泛使用。上周我和一群40岁朋友聚会，大家都把它当通用语——不过这个渗透过程很漫长。最神奇的是我妈前几天居然说‘演唱会氛围很棒’。

That there was just something happening in Manhattan. Like, there was a a shifting vibe, and we now know what was hap like, it was kind of a turn to the right amongst younger Gen Z, like, what was going on. But at the time, the only way you could describe it was like a vibe shift. Yeah. And then I've seen that now use like, journalists use it all the time.

这种语言传播如何让人产生归属感？当我妈用‘vibes’时，其实是在传递‘我做了你会喜欢的事’——这不只是描述，更是用我的语言体系来构建共同记忆。

Podcasters use it. Like, I was just a weekend with a bunch of other 40 year olds. We use it as like a lingua franca, but it took a while for that to to change. Or my mom used it the other day. Like, the vibes were good at this concert.

这种语言如何传播，让人们感觉自己是对话的一部分？就像我妈用这种方式暗示‘我做了件你会喜欢的事’。这不只是描述，也是在用我会使用的语言来描述这件事。

And how does that spread in a way that like makes people feel like they're part of that conversation? Like it's a way for my mom to signal like I was doing something that you would have liked. It's not just descriptive. It's also using the language that I would have used to describe the event.

我刚查了Google趋势，‘vibe shift’这个词的搜索量确实在2022年达到顶峰。

So I just pulled up the Google Trends for vibe shift, and it really peaked in, 2022

是啊。

Yeah.

然后这个词就留在了我们的词汇里。真有意思。我确实记得'氛围'(vibe)这个词就是那时候进入我的词汇表的，就是因为那篇《纽约时报》的文章。我得再深入研究一下。

And, then remained kind of in our vocabulary. Fascinating. I do remember the word vibe really entering my vocabulary at that time. It was because of that New York Times article. I'll have to look more into this.

这太有趣了。我觉得现在人们对'氛围'的文化认知普遍提高了。还有'梗'(meme)也是，比如1976年时'梗'还是个深奥的学术研究领域。理查德·道金斯出版了他的书《自私的基因》，当时'meme'指的是文化中自我复制的单位。

This is fascinating. I think there is generally more of a cultural awareness of vibes. And also memes, for example. Memes used to be like an esoteric academic field of study in 1976. Richard Dawkins published his book, The Selfish Gene, and the meme referred to a self replicating unit of culture.

没错。后来我们开始用'meme'指代搞笑图片。而'氛围'实际上在现象学和情感理论领域是个研究对象。它研究的是人对情境的取向如何影响其情绪状态，这其实非常重要。

Yep. And then the fact that we just started using meme to mean funny image. Vibe, like, is actually a field of study in in, like, phenomenology and kind of Yep. Affect theory. It's it's understanding how a person's orientation of a situation affects their disposition, and it's actually incredibly important.

我个人和学术场合都用过这个词。但就像'meme'这个词的演变一样，'氛围'也变得更为大众所知，可能是因为社交媒体和互联网极大地影响了我们接收梗和氛围的方式。

And I I've used it both in a personal and an academic sense, I think. But but the fact that same thing that happened with the word meme, the word vibe also became kinda more popularly conscious because maybe social media and the Internet are so profoundly affecting the influx of memes and vibes we're getting.

是啊。我特别喜欢我们居然把现象学扯进来了。我打赌一堆现象学家会说：'这是对氛围的不精确运用'。不过研究人们如何使用这个词的精确程度差异，倒是个有趣的课题。

Yeah. I love that we somehow worked phenomenology into this. I bet a bunch of phenomenologists are like, this is an imprecise wielding of vibes. But also, that would be an interesting thing to to study is how people use it in a more and less precise ways.

我觉得优秀的语言学家应该从'氛围'开始研究，因为这归根结底是人对情境的主观体验，也就是我们如何在脑海中解读事物。是的，有些词我们在不同语境下使用方式不同。比如你和祖母说话的方式会和朋友不同，用词也会不一样。

I think a like, a good linguist should start with vibes because it's it comes down to what is a person's subjective experience of a situation, and that means how do we interpret things in in our own minds. Yeah. There are words we just use in different contexts. Right? You'll talk differently to your grandmother and you'll talk differently to your friends and you might use different words.

线上和线下说话方式也不同。我书的开篇就举了'unalive'(网络用语，指自杀)的例子：现在有些中学生在作文里写'哈姆雷特考虑unalive自己'，这种用法让人感觉突兀。因为这是为规避算法审查而生的网络用语（'kill'被屏蔽），现在却被用在线下。新语境让人不适，因为我们潜意识里有词语使用规则。

You'll talk differently online than offline. Yeah. My book opens with the example of unalive and how there's, you know, there's kids in middle schools now talking about Hamlet contemplating unaliving himself in their essays. And that feels jarring and because it's an online word meant to dodge algorithmic censorship since the word kill is suppressed, and now it's being used offline. And that new context feels kind of wrong to people because we perceive rules about when certain words should be used.

没错。但对中学生来说，如果这是他们接触'杀人'话题的主要方式，而且总是用'unalive'这个词，那自然会渗透到他们的日常表达中。

Right. But for them, for middle schoolers, if this has been one of their primary means of accessing people talking about killing other people and it always is to unalive someone, like, of course, it slips into the way that they speak.

实际上我在书里谈到，这个词在线下已经真正具备了委婉语功能。我们自古以来就在美化死亡，比如用'去世'这样的说法

Well, in fact, what I talk about is that it's taken on a genuine euphemistic function offline, and we've been euphemizing death forever. We say things like passed away

或者对的。

or Right.

“Kick the bucket”听起来也有点滑稽，像是那种氛围。我是说，这个词到底有多新？它只是刚被发现这个新用法。但这引发了常规讨论——这是否淡化了自杀话题的严肃性？还是让这些孩子更容易表达自己？真正的氛围到底是什么？

Kick the bucket also sounds a little funny kinda like on the vibe. So I mean, how how new is that really? It just found this new function. But, you know, it it brings up the standard conversations like does this trivialize the topic of suicide or does it make it easier for these kids to express themselves? What are what are the vibes, really?

是啊是啊。不，这真的很有趣。本期节目由fastgrowingtrees.com赞助播出。

Yeah. Yeah. No. That's really interesting. Today's episode is sponsored by fastgrowingtrees.com.

我对此超级期待。秋季种植季对我来说有点吓人，因为我总是感觉精疲力尽。而且如果你选错了树，它们可能会在冬天冻死，这太糟了。很多时候你根本不知道从何入手。

I'm so excited for this. It's I mean, fall planting season is somewhat intimidating for me because I it's I'm always, like, a little bit exhausted. And also, if you pick the wrong tree and you don't, like they can freeze over winter. It sucks. And oftentimes, you're like, where do I start?

我知道自己想要点什么，但不确定具体尺寸，不知道它会长多快，也不清楚需要多少光照。这时候就该上fastgrowingtrees.com。

I know that I want something. I don't know, like, exactly what size. I don't know how fast it's gonna grow. I don't know how much light it needs. Fastgrowingtrees.com.

我知道这很明显——它提供速生树木，但他们还有植物专家团队帮你找到最适合你空间的植物。

I know it's very obvious, like, what it does. It gives you fast growing trees, but they also have all of these plant experts that can help you find the perfect fit for your space.

不只是树哦。对的。灌木、草类、一年生植物...多年生植物也是。其实我还没在fastgrowingtrees.com下单过，但我准备试试。

So And not just trees. Yes. Shrubs, grasses, annuals Yes. Perennials. I've actually I haven't ordered anything from fastgraintrees.com yet, but I'm going to.

不过我长期用它做研究，因为它的搜索功能可以非常精细——不仅能按区域搜索，还能细化到耐热、防鹿、吸引传粉者等属性，信息量太丰富了。

But I've actually used it for a long time to help me research because the search functions can get so granular. So not just searching by zone, but you can narrow it down to like heat tolerant, deer resistant, pollinator friendly, and it's just there's just so much information.

而且他们的植物质量超高。有些网购买来的植物状态很差，但他们家送来的都特别好。我刚订了一批粉黛乱子草（可能记错名字了），品质绝佳。

And also the plants are very high quality. I think some places that you order online, you get things that are arrive in not great shape, these arrive in fantastic shape. I just ordered a bunch of pink moolly grass. I might be wrong. It is fantastic.

我花园其他地方种过这种草，现在需要替换一些长得过高、本不该种在那里的草种。当初要是有fastgrowingtrees.com指导就好了。他们家的'鲜活保障'确保植物送达时健康茁壮，不像某些商家送来的半死不活。所有植物都在美国本土培育，保证能在你的庭院茁壮成长，这点非常重要。

I've had it in other places in my garden, and I need to replace some other grasses that are way too tall for their space and that I should not have put there. But I didn't have fastgrowingtrees.com to guide me on what I need. Also, fast growing trees alive and thrive guarantee ensures that your plants arrive happy and healthy and not looking like crap like some other places. All plants and trees are locally grown in The US, ensuring they will thrive in your yard. It's really important.

来自fastgrowingtrees.com的每一株植物都附有养护说明和小贴士，以确保它们能充分发挥生长潜力。

And every plant that comes from fastgrowingtrees.com comes with instructions and tips for care so that the plants will grow to their fullest potential.

今年秋季，他们为您的庭院提供最优惠活动，精选植物低至五折及其他特惠。本节目听众首次购物使用代码CULTURE可享85折优惠。立即登录fastgrowingtrees.com，结账时输入代码CULTURE即可享受85折。当前正是种植的黄金时节，使用代码CULTURE即刻省钱。

This fall, they have the best deals for your yard and up to half off on select plants and other deals. Listeners to our show get 15% off their first purchase when using the code CULTURE at checkout. That's 15% off fastgrowingtrees.com using the code CULTURE at checkout. Now is actually the perfect time to plant. Use culture to save today.

优惠活动限时有效，条款与条件适用。您可通过节目备注中的链接查看详情并支持我们。本期节目由Mosh赞助播出。您可能在《鲨鱼坦克》中听说过Mosh。

Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. You can check out the link in the show notes and support the show. This episode is brought to you by Mosh. Mosh, you might have heard about on Shark Tank.

该品牌由玛丽亚·施莱弗与其子帕特里克·施瓦辛格联合创立，他们携手世界顶尖科学家和功能营养学家，打造超越普通蛋白棒的产品。每根Mosh棒都含有支持大脑健康的成分，如猴头菇胶原蛋白和Omega-3。Mosh棒口感出众，提供九种绝佳口味选择，包括三款新推出的植物基风味——我最爱的巧克力曲奇、榛子巧克力脆片和花生巧克力脆片。Mosh还会将部分销售额捐赠给女性阿尔茨海默病运动组织，用于支持性别健康研究——因为三分之二的阿尔茨海默病患者是女性，Mosh正致力于缩小男女健康研究的差距。

It was founded by Maria Shriver and her son, Patrick Schwarzenegger, and they joined forces with some of the world's top scientists and functional nutritionists to go beyond your average protein bar. Each Mosh Bar is made with ingredients that support brain health, like lion's mane collagen and omega threes. Mosh Bars also actually taste great and come in nine different excellent flavors, including the three new plant based flavors, chocolate chip cookie, which I really like, hazelnut chocolate chip, and peanut chocolate chip. Mosh also donates a portion of all proceeds from your order to fund gender based health research through the women's Alzheimer's movement. Because two thirds of all Alzheimer's patients are women, and Mosh is working closely to close the gap between women and men's health research.

若您想寻找回馈社会同时滋养身心的方式，Mosh棒是理想之选。立即访问moshlife.com/culture，畅销款试吃装或新款植物基试吃装可享8折优惠并免运费。在moshlife.com/culture选购畅销款或植物基试吃装，立享8折加免邮。感谢Mosh对本节目的赞助。下一个问题将让我们更深入地探讨起源话题。

If you want to find ways to give back to others and fuel your body and your brain, Mosh Bars are the perfect choice for you. Head to moshlife.com/culture to save 20% off plus free shipping on the Best Sellers Trial Pack or the new Plant Based Trial Pack. That s 20% off plus free shipping on either the Best Sellers Trial Pack or the Plant Based Trial Pack at moshlife.com/culture. Thank you, Mosh, for sponsoring this episode. Our next question will let us talk about origins a little bit more.

让我们听听玛吉的看法。

Let's hear from Maggie.

我觉得很多俚语源自黑人和棕色人种的酷儿群体，却被淡化或脱离原始语境。但我的问题是，能否通过某人使用的俚语判断其政治立场？除了种族主义或法西斯主义的暗号，我们怎么知道那个'八卦达人'是否给特朗普投过票？

I feel like so much of it comes from black and brown queer people and gets watered down or removed from its original context. But my question is, is there a way to tell if someone has different political beliefs based upon the slang they're using? Beyond the racist or fascist dog whistles, how can we tell if the person, quote unquote, clocking that tea voted for Trump?

首先，我认为应该讨论问题的前半部分——关于文化挪用的部分。你在书中专门用了一个章节来探讨这个，我很想听听

So first, I think we should talk about the the first part of this question, which is about the appropriative component. And you have a whole section of the book on this, so I'd love to hear

这个章节讲的就是挪用现象。语言往往沿着'酷'或'有趣'的渠道传播。不幸的是，非裔美国人英语在很多人眼里不是酷就是滑稽。所以它既跟随社会声望的潮流，也伴随着人们的嘲弄。于是这些俚语词汇就纷纷进入了主流。

The chapter, it's giving appropriation. Language tends to follow the conduits of what is seen as cool or funny. Unfortunately, you know, African American English is is seen as either cool or funny by a lot of people. So it follows the conduits of social prestige of popularity, but it also follows like people mocking it and making fun of it. And then we have all these like slang words hitting the mainstream.

很多词汇源自八十年代纽约的黑人拉丁裔酷儿舞会文化圈，比如slay（绝杀）、serve（惊艳）、eight（完美）、queen（女王）、yas（太棒了）这些现在都成了Z世代主流用语——但当我们贴上这类标签时，往往就淡忘了它们的出处。还有那些'街头反讽梗'，比如cap（扯淡）之类的，也都是通过类似渠道传播的。所以这些词汇进入主流有几种途径。那个问题也很有意思，因为人们说话方式确实存在社会语言学指标。

A lot come from the ballroom community particularly this queer black Latino space in New York City in the nineteen eighties. It was like words like slay, serve, eight, queen, yas, you know, all those are now like mainstream gen z language which I I think is also when we apply labels like that, we sort of lose touch with where they came from. And then there's also the hood irony memes, which are just kind of making fun of like cap that those those all kind of like spread through that kind of medium. So so there's a few ways these words filter into the mainstream. And that question is also fascinating because there is definitely like a sociolinguistic indicator when people say things.

我倾向于认为，如果有人谈论'喝茶打卡'，他们总体上还是偏自由派的。但事实是，现在全美各地的初中生都在用这个短语，却完全不知道它的出处。要知道，他们长大后可能会有各种政治倾向。所以也许它已经失去了作为社会标识的力量，尤其是脱离了原始语境后。这种现象就是互联网语境坍塌造成的。不过，我之前确实做过一期关于红心与蓝心表情的视频...

I I would tend to assume that if someone's talking about clocking tea, they they still trend more liberal. But the fact is middle schoolers now are using this phrase all over the country with no idea where it came from and, you know, they're gonna grow up to have all kinds of political affiliations. So maybe it's lost that power as a social indicator especially as it's removed from context. This is something that just happens because the Internet context collapse. But, yeah, I did a video once in, like, the red heart, you know, versus blue heart.

蓝心更多被民主党人使用，红心则是MAGA支持者的标志，这是个很明显的例子。但说实话，几乎每个词汇在不同人群中的使用频率都存在微妙差异。

Blue heart is used more by Democrats. Red heart is used more by MAGA. That's just a clear example. But I don't know. There's like every single word is used at a slightly different frequency by different subsets of the population.

对你这样时刻关注网络文化的人来说可能很荒谬，但我认识的很多自由派圈子里的人都完全不懂'加油布兰登'是什么意思。他们看到汽车贴纸上的标语时真的满脸困惑。在我看来，这就是典型的MAGA原生梗，不深入那个文化圈根本破解不了。

So I feel like this would sound ridiculous to you because of you're someone who is always paying attention to these things. But so many people I knew in liberal circles were like, what? Let's go Brandon. Like, really just did not get it because they would see it on bumper stickers and that sort of things. And to me, that is one of the prime examples of, like, a very MAGA organic meme that was not scrutable to people who are not deep into that culture.

能稍微解释下这个梗吗？

Can you explain it a little bit?

好的。这其实是一种委婉替代——原本是'去他妈的乔·拜登'，因为被某次直播主持人误听成'加油布兰登'就演变成了隐语。

Right. Well, that's that's clear a kind of it's a minced oath. A minced oath is when we turn something serious, which is fuck Joe Biden. That's what let let's go Brandon stands for. But because somebody misinterpreted that at one point, it turned into a minced oath.

类似的演变还有'性'变成'涩涩'。这也是规避审查的替代词，同时标记了特定社群——比如医生、性教育者、成人内容创作者这些需要在算法下讨论敏感话题的群体。

Then we see a similar thing. I examine how the word sex turns into the word segs. That's a that's a minced oath as well. It also marks the social group of people who are talking about sex on the algorithm. So like doctors and sex educators and risque creators.

这些人都会用'涩涩'这个词，或者说至少曾经用过。

All those people will use the word segs or, you know, have in the past.

为了避免被算法标记或限流。

To avoid that to avoid getting flagged or buried by the algorithm.

看，我们又回到算法审查如何影响语言表达这个话题了。但这类替代词确实具有社群标识功能。任何排他性的反语言现象都是如此——就像说'加油布兰登'的人绝对属于某个特定社群。

Again, we're back to like algorithms affecting through censorship how we speak. But so that's that marks also a social group. You can't avoid that anytime there's some kind of exclusive anti language happening. In the same way, Let's Go Brandon definitely marks a social group if you're saying that.

没错。这种内外群体的划分，其实又回到了最初的问题：使用某种特定表达会立即将对话者纳入你的社会关系网络。

Right. And an in group out group, this kinda is going back to the the first question of, like, what sort of speaker are you using that immediately hails someone into your social?

Shibboleth是一个语言学术语，用于识别某人身份。

A shibboleth is a a linguistic term that identifies someone.

对。你之前提到人们在中学时期使用的某些表达，他们可能没意识到这些词对二三十岁的人意味着不同含义，甚至带有政治或意识形态色彩。你能想到自己青少年时期常说却完全不了解其背景的词吗？我是说我过去就说过不少这类词。

Yeah. Was there anything like, you know, you were saying earlier that there are things that people start using in middle school that they don't realize that it signifies differently to people in their twenties or thirties or that it has political balances or even ideological ones. Can you think of anything that you said all the time when you were a teen or a tween that you didn't have any idea of what was going on with it? I mean, there were a lot of things that I've said.

我记得2016、2017年左右流行过bet和cap这些词。我当时也在用，但不知道它们的起源。还有更明显的流行词比如Yeet、Bay、Fam、Onflique，这些都源自非裔美国人社群，通过Vine平台走红——如果要研究TikTok的前身，Vine是个重要研究对象。

Well, I remember, like, bet and cap trending in, like, 2016, 2017. I was using those words. I didn't know where they came from. There was also like the more obvious obtrusive trends like Yeet, Bay, Fam, Onflique, those, you know, also come from African American spaces and were popularized on Vine, which I think is an important thing to study if we're looking at the precursor of TikTok.

没错。那详细说说Vine吧。

Yeah. Yeah. So talk more about Vine.

它是首个以视频为主的平台。不同之处在于没有个性化推荐，所有人看到的Vine视频都一样。

Well, it was the first, like, video based platform. What's what's different about it though is there were no personalized recommendations. Everybody got shown the same Vines.

嗯。

Yep.

这种视频媒介有种特殊魔力能让创意快速传播，Vine确实做到了。现在TikTok能展示不同内容，反而让更多模因得以在多个社群中同时潜伏发酵。Vine在商业化方面很弱，最终也因此关闭，但它为后来者搭建了框架。

And and they did. Like, there's something about this video medium that's very compelling at allowing ideas to spread, and ideas did spread in Vine. I think the fact that TikTok can now show people different things allows more memes to incubate under the radar in a lot of different communities at the same time. Vine was also poor at, like, monetizing, and I think they shut down due to monetization issues. But it it kinda laid out that framework for future companies.

Musically是字节跳动的天然继承者，这家中国公司收购Musically后，将其与他们为抖音打造的精妙算法结合——中国政府会对抖音内容严格审查，他们原有大量检测关键词和个性化推荐的基础设施。把这些移植到Musically，结合Vine式的短视频形式，就诞生了TikTok。现在其他应用都在模仿它，比如Instagram Reels和YouTube Shorts，但TikTok的算法仍是最成熟的。

And so Musically was the obvious successor of ByteDance, the company in China bought Musically, turned it into TikTok, and kind of combined that with their sophisticated algorithm that they built for their Chinese app, Douyun, which the Chinese government censors a lot of stuff. There was a lot of infrastructure in place to detect specific keywords and give personalized recommendations. They ported that over to Musically, combined that with the kind of vine format of short form video and created TikTok. And now and now all these other apps are just trying to copy it, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts. I think TikTok is still like the most sophisticated algorithm.

人们痴迷那种被算法了解的个性化体验。

People love that feeling of personalization, that feeling like your algorithm knows you.

你认同这个观点吗？有人认为Vine创造了大量构成当今TikTok基础语汇的流行用语。

Do you agree with the argument elsewhere that Vine created so much of the vernacular, like the foundational vernacular that now structures TikTok?

我认为TikTok的作用远不止于此。我大概能列举出十个真正源自Vine的词汇。那里有各种梗，它确实在那个时期起到了关键作用。嗯。我觉得TikTok扮演的角色更为重要，因为这正是无算法与有算法之间的区别。

I I think TikTok does so much more. I can maybe list on, like, 10 fingers like the words that really came from Vine. There's like memes and it was it was definitely pivotal to that period in time. Mhmm. I think TikTok plays so much larger of a role because it's that difference between no algorithm and algorithm.

这是《因为互联网》这本书里提到的差异——这本精彩的书值得一读，它讲述了互联网的旧时代。而如今我们身处互联网的新纪元。我会去演讲，大家也该读读那本书。但关键在于算法现在如何创造群体，并放大人类自然的行为趋势。

It's difference between because Internet, which is this fantastic book, people should read this old era of the Internet. And now we're in the new era of the Internet. I'll go speak. People should get that one too. But it's how algorithms are now creating in groups and, like, they amplify natural human trends.

正如你所说，我们天然会划分内外群体。算法制造回声室和过滤气泡，让我们感觉自己是集体兴奋的一部分。我们本能地喜欢潮流、梗和吸引我们的现象，然后算法推动并放大这些。创作者们又通过我所说的‘互动跑步机’机制来试图让自己走红。

So we naturally like you said, we wanna create in groups and out groups. They create echo chambers and filter bubbles that make us feel like we're part of something collectively effervescent. We naturally like fads and memes and phenomena that fascinate us, and then algorithms push that and amplify it. And then creators again, like, process I was talking about that I call the engagement treadmill. Creators, like, hijack that in an attempt to go viral themselves.

算法天生更擅长审查语言——这正是语言学家称之为‘生产力’的东西，能催生更多新词汇。算法屏蔽‘杀死’‘性’等词的事实，反而促使我们创造新词。我们在语言上比没有算法时更具创造力。嗯。

Algorithms naturally are better at censoring language, which is literally what linguists call a productive force, something that produces more language. The fact that the algorithm is censoring words like kill and sex means that we come up with new words. We we're linguistically more creative than we would have been without the algorithm. Mhmm.

是啊。我联想到Vine。如果回溯早期电影，那些短片在一分钟内就能制造笑点。后来长片吸收了这种结构，把一分钟的搞笑扩展成二三十分钟。显然TikTok没那么长，但它继承了如何让视频有趣的构建模块。

Yeah. I I think of it as like Vine. If you go back to super early cinema, like the early shorts of early cinema, like they figured out how to make something really funny within, you know, a minute. And then you have these longer films that combined some of that structure of like, how do you make something really funny in a minute and expand it into twenty minutes, expand it into thirty minutes. And obviously, TikToks aren't that long, but it's taking some of like those building blocks of, like, how do you make video funny?

如何让人停下来不划走——这种方式比YouTube早期要有效得多，至少在其原始形态时远未如此成功。

How do you make people stop and actually not swipe onto the next one and do that, like, more effectively in a way that I don't think YouTube ever was that successful at, at least in its original.

不。Vine当时也是根据互动量排序的。YouTube首页现在也这么做。其实YouTube的机制比表面看起来更复杂。

No. I mean, Vine still, like, rank things based on engagement. And I guess the YouTube homepage does that too. They I mean, there's more going on with YouTube than you might think. Yeah.

但前提不同。前提是短视频与长视频的区别。短视频是你主动投入观看的——比如侧躺在床上刷；长视频则是做饭时的背景音。

Yeah. But the premise is different. The premise is short form video versus long form video. That it's like, already we're starting with short form video something you actively engage with and watch like like lying in bed on your side or whatever. Long form video something you put on in the background while you're cooking.

这就是为什么现在几乎没有5-10分钟的视频了——平台摸清了商业模式。本质上是被动注意力与主动注意力的区别。YouTube已经开始不鼓励中等时长视频，现在没人做了。

And that's like the there's like there's no way, like, five to ten minutes videos anymore for example because the companies figure out what the business model is. Like, it's literally one's background passive attention and one's active attention. Yeah. And and YouTube started disincentivizing, like, five to ten minute videos. Nobody does it anymore.

所以你要么牢牢抓住观众注意力，要么沦为背景音。

And so you'll have either you're really grabbing someone's attention or you're in the background.

好的。这是另一个关于网络俚语进入现实生活的例子。来自Joy的分享。

Okay. This is another one about internet slang coming into real life. This is from Joy.

我着迷于这样一种现象：一个本用于调侃或玩笑的表达，如何轻易地成为个人词汇的一部分。我30岁的伴侣总爱问我和猫咪：‘我们熟了吗，亲？’这个新梗虽然好笑，但我预见到它会像2017年的LMAO和LOL一样变得烦人。为什么会这样？我们该如何在特定语境（比如仅限于网络）中使用这些词，而不让它们渗入口语？

I am fascinated by the easy way that saying something as a bit or a mocking joke becomes a part of a person's lexicon. My 30 year old partner keeps asking me and the cats, are we cooked chat? It's a newly hilarious bit, but I do foresee it becoming as annoying as LMAO and LOL were back in 2017. Why does this happen? And how can we use words within context like just online without bringing it into our spoken word?

关于网络用语，我还想听听大家在不合时宜的场合使用俚语的尴尬故事——比如工作会议、约会时，或跟奶奶聊天的时候。

Also on the topic of internet talk, I would love to hear an embarrassing story of a totally inappropriate time you used slang. Maybe a work function, on a date, or talking to grandma.

好，我们先来聊聊这种跨界现象。在我看来，这就像一个梗的消亡过程。当它被过度使用时...

Okay. So let's talk first about this crossover. And to me, it's like the death of a meme. Right? Like when it becomes like so overused.

就不再具有新鲜感了

Like that it's no longer

当你的祖母开始说‘skibbitty’时，你肯定就不想再说了。这类词汇的生命周期往往与梗的流行度绑定——它们因突兀而引人注目，也随着梗的过时而消逝。一个梗作为社会现象，只在其作为小圈子内部梗时存在。当所有人都懂了笑话，它就不再有趣。而像‘low key’这种不那么明显是梗的词反而会留存下来。

Certainly when your grandmother starts saying skibbitty, you no longer wanna say skibbitty. There there is like a lifespan when when words get are obtrusive in that way that they stick out and they get tied to the lifespan of a meme. A meme is a social phenomenon only as long as it remains part of an in group. And once everybody's in on the joke, it's no longer funny. Now other words like low key, like, think would stick around because it's not as obviously a meme.

就算你祖母开始说‘low key’，你可能都察觉不到。词汇渗透进日常用语的过程很有趣，尤其是当你把它当作梗来用时。记得去年秋天我做过视频，讲‘w’这个词如何变成形容词——你可以说‘w播客’‘w书籍’。之后我就开始把这个词挂在嘴边...

If your grandmother state might start saying low key, you might even miss it. The sort of words bleeding into vocabulary is a fascinating thing especially when you're use it as like a bit. Remember last fall, I made a video on how the the word w could be like, you know, an adjective. So you could say like, oh, w podcast, w book. And I would just start saying that after everything I

这到底是什么意思？

could does that mean? What does that mean?

就是表示‘很棒’的意思。比如你可以说有档‘L播客’，但你现在听的是‘w播客’。‘w’代表‘win（赢）’。

Well, it just means something's good. It means like, yeah, this is a great. Well, yeah. Could you you can have an l podcast, but you're on a w podcast. It means win.

但它又不完全等于‘win’，因为没人会说‘win播客’。‘w’已经独立发展成了新词。我觉得这很有趣，起初是和朋友开玩笑用，后来他们不得不制止我：‘亚当，别再这么说了’。看来连语言学家也难逃这种习惯。

But it doesn't mean win because it doesn't mean win podcast. Win w just became took on its own life as a word. I thought it was fascinating. I started using it as a joke with my friends, and then my friends had to, like, be like, Adam, you gotta stop saying this. So even linguists are guilty of it.

不，完全同意。你能想到她问题的第二部分吗？就是人们在工作中，尤其是在Slack上沟通时，很容易无意中使用了某些东西。

No. Totally. Can you think of it the second part of her question too where it's like where people, like, accidentally use stuff in I I I think in work communication, especially with Slack, it's so easy to accidentally

是啊，我听过一些Slack的恐怖故事。哦天...回到'unalive'这个话题，比如我书开头提到的例子——去年夏天，西雅图流行文化博物馆为科特·柯本自杀三十周年办展览时，他们没说'自杀'，没说'他结束了自己的生命'，而是说'科特·柯本在27岁时unalived了自己'。

Yeah. I've I've heard some Slack horror stories. Oh my Well, back to the unalive thing, like, example I opened the book with is last summer, the Seattle Museum of Pop Culture did an exhibit for the thirtieth anniversary of Kurt Cobain suicide, and they didn't say they committed suicide. They didn't say that he killed himself. They said that Kurt Cobain unalived himself at 27.

那是个特别恶劣的例子。我在推特上疯传这个事，说这种语境根本不该用这个词，对吧？

And that was a like, an egregious example. I went viral on Twitter of, like, this is not supposed to be used in this context. Right.

当时...

There was

引发了巨大反弹，他们不得不撤下展览。但这完全是因为人们觉得：这不是使用这个词的合适场合。

a huge backlash they had to take down the exhibit, but it's it's only because of that perception of, like, this is not the time or the place to use that word.

真有意思。我觉得老一辈人尤其容易中招——他们在Slack或消息应用里用Giphy搜索，输入'庆祝'之类的关键词，跳出来的动图却脱离了原语境。我常见到使用者根本不知道...

That's so interesting. I also think, like, the thing with and I think older people are particularly susceptible to this, is they use the, like, Giphy search in something like Slack or in messaging. They search for, like, celebration or, like, a keyword. And then the GIPHY that comes up is decontextualized. Like, oftentimes, the people that I see who use it, they don't

不知道动图来源，比如小黄人什么的。他们完全不了解...

know where that's from. It's like a minion or something. Like, you don't know, like

经常是小黄人。但有时是来自...

It's it's often a minion. Yeah. But sometimes it's from, like

这些动图真该好好研究下。

gif needs to be studied. Yeah.

有时来自某部电影，他们可能不该在工作群组用那个特定动图。你怎么看这种表情包/动图/话语脱离语境的现象？

Sometimes it's from a movie that they maybe don't wanna be using that particular gif on, like, a public or a a a work channel. And, like, how do you think of that sort of decontextualization of memes or gifs or or speech in that way?

是的。这种语境坍塌是语言变迁的重要推手，因为它促使词汇跨越语境边界传播——当你意识到这种边界时，词语就不会扩散也不会改变。但当你开始遗忘或不知道某个词的来源时，变化就更容易发生。就像你常看到的现象：为什么这么多词汇都源自舞厅文化？

Yeah. This context collapse is a huge driver of language change because it causes things to move across context because when you perceive that boundary, the word's not gonna spread. It's not gonna change. But when you start to forget or don't know where something comes from, it makes it that much easier. This is a common thing you see with like, why are so many words coming from the ballroom scene?

首先这本质上是一种社会现象。词汇先从黑人拉丁裔同性群体流传到白人同性群体，再传到直男的白人女友那里。这本是自然过程，但若非TikTok，这些词要进入主流可能需要更长时间。现在如果一个白人女孩在TikTok上看到黑人酷儿男性说话，她会以为这是推送给她的内容，却不会想到算法只是根据用户画像推荐能带来流量变现的内容。

It's because well, first of all, there's a natural social phenomenon happening. It starts with black Latino gay people, and then it moves to white gay people, and it moves to the straight white girlfriends of gay men. That's natural, but it might have taken, like, way longer for those words to reach the mainstream if it wasn't for TikTok. Because now if you're a white girl watching a a queer black man say something on TikTok, it's on your for you page, assume it's for me. You don't think that, oh, maybe the algorithm just like is recommending this to people who statistically are most likely to watch it and make money for the platform.

发布者本意是使用群体内部语言，但观看者却觉得可以随意复述。当这个白人女孩的视频走红后，其他白人女孩听到时会以为这是白人女孩的用语——殊不知这原本是用于区分酷儿黑人语言与白人主流英语的词汇。就这样，词语穿透了信息茧房。

And this actual like person didn't intend this video to be sent to you, but they intended this as in group language. But now you're interpreting this and you feel like it's okay to say it, and then you you do regurgitate it. And now your video does even better, and now there's there's other, like, white girls hearing this from another white girl thinking, this is white girl language. It's not, you know, queer black language meant to differentiate queer language from the straight white norms of the English language. And that's how, like, these words move across filter bubbles.

没错。这和TikTok舞蹈的传播模式很像。我记得Taylor Rennes写过关于'叛逃舞'的经典分析文章。

Yeah. Which is not dissimilar from how TikTok dances move across TikTok. Like, Taylor Rennes, I think, wrote, like, the quintessential piece on how, like, how I think it's the renegade.

就是Charlie D'Amelio跳的那个'叛逃舞'，其实源自亚特兰大14岁女孩Jalea Harmon的原创。这个事件堪称网络文化的转折点，标志着人们开始关注潮流起源者。在此之前几乎没有溯源文化——比如2014年Vine用户Peaches Monroe（本名Kayla Newman）创造的'Onfleek'流行时，根本没人提及她。

It's the renegade Charlie D'Amelio. It kind of appropriated the renegade from Jalea Harmon who was a 14 year old in Atlanta who came up with that dance. Well, I think that was also, like, a critical like, a pivotal point in Internet culture because it marked when we started attributing the originators of trends. Because because of that backlash, there before that, there wasn't much of a, like, a citation kinda culture. For example, when Onfleek was treading in 2014 from Vine user Peaches Monroe, also known as Kayla Newman, nobody credited her.

她没获得一分钱收益。毕竟要独占某个流行词很难，但当Forever 21推出'On Fleek'系列T恤时，商业机构却在借此牟利。

She didn't see a cent of profits. Why would she? You know, it's it's hard to, like, really own a word or something especially when it's hits the mainstream. But then you have, like, people capitalizing on it. Forever twenty one releases a brand of on fleek t shirts.

Ariana Grande和Nicki Minaj这些歌手在歌词里使用'on fleek'后，竟开始争夺这个词的所有权。Nicki还因其他艺人销售'pretty on fleek'T恤发起争执，认为这属于她的产权。

Ariana Grande raps about being yeah. Nick Nicki Minaj. These people, like, sing about, like, on fleek and then, like, claim ownership of the word. Nicki Minaj got into an argument with another artist about this person was selling pretty on fleek t shirts. And and Nicki felt like that was her property.

她觉得应该从中获利。但与此同时，没人给Kayla Newman任何报酬。

She should get money for it. In the meantime, nobody's paying Kayla Newman.

确实。

Right.

这就是当时的文化环境。现在TikTok时代有所不同——去年Jules Lebron带火'demure'这个词时，用户们发起了认可原创者的行动，她也确实获得了相应回报。

That that was fine culture. Right? Now I think things are different with TikTok culture. Last year when Jules Lebron popularized the word demure and demure mindful cues users, that whole trend, there was a lot more of a push to recognize her. People did pay her for things.

她能够支付自己的转变费用。所以在这方面可能也出现了一种氛围转变。

She was able to pay for her transition. So there's maybe there's been a vibe shift in that sense as well.

是啊，这真的很有意思。我觉得现在人们对语言作为知识产权的理解达到了一个前所未有的高度。

Yeah. That's that's really interesting. I think there is this, like, really heightened understanding of of language as intellectual property.

但实际上不知道，这种情况到底有多真实。就像你...

But the actual don't know, like, how how much that's that's true. Like, you

没错。这就是问题所在。

Right. Can't That's the thing.

一旦词语传播出去，你根本无法控制它的去向。是的。我觉得现在有种文化态度是好的——这个人创造了很酷的东西，我们应该认可他们。同时也有另一种文化态度：这个词对这个群体具有重要功能。嗯。

Once the word escapes, like, you can't really control where it goes at all. Yeah. I mean, it seems good that there's a cultural attitude of, like, this person came up with something cool, let's recognize them for it. And there's also you know that culture attitude of you know this word serves an important function to this group you know. Mhmm.

也许我不该用那个词。可能现在人们对此更有意识了。我不会告诉你要不要用某个词。但通过词源学，我希望的是：既然你知道了这些词的来历，就可以自己做决定，因为文化是主观的。

Maybe I shouldn't use that word. Maybe there's more of an awareness of that. Not gonna tell you ever to to use or not use a word But, you know, my hope with etymology is like, now you know where these come from, you can make your own call because culture is a subjective thing.

说到这个，我觉得TikTok特别擅长通过使用其他视频的声音来进行这种复制。是的，虽然很难想象，但有些人确实不知道TikTok的运作方式。你能解释下怎么使用声音吗？就像2008年2月那种老派梗图，用梗图生成器做的那种。

What about the way I because I think that TikTok is particularly skilled at reproduction this way with using sounds from other videos. Yeah. Some people I know it's weird to imagine, but some people don't know how TikTok works. Can you explain how you use a sound Yeah. To make what we like, what would have been in 02/2008, like, how our very old school memes, like stuff that you would make on meme generator would work.

这是TikTok与众不同的迷人之处——你可以按声音分类内容。这源于Musical.ly（一个音乐舞蹈应用）的基础架构。在Instagram和YouTube上你无法这样做。虽然所有应用都允许按标签或视频类型筛选，但只有TikTok还能按声音搜索。

This is a fascinating thing that differentiates TikTok that you can categorize things by sound. It comes out of that infrastructure of Musically, which was a music and dance app. Now on Instagram and YouTube, you can't really do this. All the apps allow you to sort by like hashtag or type of video or something like that. TikTok also allows you to search by sound.

你可以查找某个声音，看到所有使用它的视频。它推送热门声音的力度也远超其他正在追赶的应用。比如'为Rizzler挺出肚子'那个章节，原本是包含这些俚语的TikTok声音。当人们在自己视频里使用这个声音时，它正在流行。

You can look up a sound and see all the videos that are similar to it. It also pushes trending sounds far more than the other apps are catching up with this one. But TikTok really laid down the groundwork for this that if a sound is trending, it'll push that sound. So for example, in that chapter sticking out your gut for the Rizzler, that was a TikTok sound that also contained these slang words. But when people use that sound under their videos, it was trending.

更多创作者使用这个声音进一步推动了传播，也让这些词汇更流行。现在这些词已经超越了原本的语境。这是个深度视听结合的媒介——TikTok的逻辑就是让用户的注意力在画面与声音间快速切换，两者同时发生作用。

More creators use that sound which pushed it further, which also pushed the words further. And now you have kind of these words replicating beyond that. It's a deeply audio visual medium. Like, the logic of TikTok revolves around rapidly switching your attention from one site and sound to another site and sound. And it's both of those things happening at once.

你对某些声音已形成联想，赋予其特定含义或关注度，视觉意象也是如此。这些都交织在一起，形成一种氛围。

And there's associations you have imbued kind of notions about what this sound is or how much this sound captivates your attention. Same with certain visual imagery. All that is kinda tied together. Vibes.

为什么Instagram Reels的算法比TikTok简单这么多？

Why is why is the Instagram Reels algorithm so much more basic than TikToks?

TikTok更复杂是因为他们拥有先进的中国AI基础设施。Instagram目前有些有趣的变化——自2025年1月起，它明显输出了更多AI生成内容，更多赤裸裸的种族歧视内容。

Tik TikTok is more sophisticated because of they have, you know, the advanced kinda AI Chinese infrastructure. Instagram is there's there's interesting stuff happening in Instagram right now. Since January 2025, it has been spewing out a lot more AI, a lot more clearly racist content.

确实。

Yes.

Meta放宽了内容准则。现在他们首先允许更多AI生成内容，其次放弃了DEI（多元平等包容）那套'觉醒'理念，所以你可以随意发布内容。N开头的词也没问题，于是你会看到大量种族主义的AI垃圾短视频。

Meta loosened their content guidelines. They are now allowing for first more AI generated stuff. And second, the they're they're done with DEI woke, so now you can just post whatever you want. The n word is, like, fine. And you get, like, all these racist AI slop reels.

我写过一篇文章：有个3000万播放量的短视频，画面是一群赤裸上身的黑人男子冲向肯德基吃炸鸡，背景音是反复播放的N开头的词。这个视频传播开来就是因为耸人听闻——就像吸引点击的标题党，它能吸引眼球。我其实采访过这个视频的创作者。

I wrote an article about there was a reel with 30,000,000 views that depicted a swarm of shirtless black men running towards a KFC eating fried chicken, and the underlying audio was the n word repeated over and over again. And that has 30,000,000 views. And it it you know why it's spread? Because it's sensational. In the same way it's good to get clicks on a headline, this draws eyeballs which which and I I actually interviewed the creator of that video.

我问他：'为什么要做这个？'他没说自己是种族主义者（虽然确实是），我认为他制作动机不在此。他告诉我：'因为这个视频能获得点赞和观看量'。

I'm like, hey. Why are you making this? And they didn't say I'm racist. They are, but, like, they didn't say that, and I don't think that's why they made the video. They they told me, I made this video because it's good if you're getting likes and views.

这让我觉得荒谬。这就像一种'平庸之恶'——算法制造的平庸之恶：你搭建了让愚蠢内容复制的平台，然后它就真的发生了。

And that's ridiculous to me. There's sort of a banality of evil going on, banality banality of the algorithm that that you create the infrastructure for stupidity to replicate and then it does.

Meta在这方面倒是很在行。它本该非常了解我，但给我推的都是些糟糕的短视频，连狗的视频都算不上有趣...

Well, and I just feel like Meta is so good at replicating that. Like, it should know me so well. And yet, all it shows me is like, bad reels of dogs being like, not even that

无聊的狗视频。我刷到的都是粗制滥造的猫视频之类的。

interesting dog videos. I slopped cat videos or yeah.

哦对。或者像是减肥前后的对比内容。我就想，这不是我的风格，我不会提供那种暗示信息。就像，根本不是那种情况

Or yeah. Or like, before and after weight loss stuff. And I'm like, this is not my like, I am not giving you information that indicates that. Like, not at one of those

陈述偏好与显示偏好。可惜不是那样。不。但我们本能的那种反应，嗯，对。不过也不是那个意思

stated preferences and your revealed preferences. Unfortunately not that. No. But our our instinctual, like, reactions to well, yeah. Also, it's not that.

它们确实会展示可能被商品化的内容。但与此同时，你对某些事物会有本能反应。愤怒诱饵和点击诱饵。不幸的是，你会观看愤怒诱饵视频，尽管那并非你想看的。算法在某种意义上并不真正为你服务——它推送的不是你想看的内容，而是你会做出反应的内容，这样才能让你留在应用里，这才是他们后续能贩卖的东西

It they do show you things that maybe are commodified. But at the same time, there are instinctual reactions you have to things. Rage bait and click bait. Unfortunately, you will watch rage bait, which isn't something you want to watch. The algorithm is not actually for you in a sense it's not something you want to see, but it's something that you will respond to, which is something that keeps you on the app, which is something they can sell later.

没错没错。我只是觉得TikTok给我推送的内容总在暗示'哦你喜欢这个，你超爱看清理马蹄的视频'。这简直就像是我最隐秘的癖好

Right. Right. I just think TikTok, the things that it serves me that it's like, oh, you like this. You love those hooves getting cleaned. Like, that is very like, that's my biggest, darkest

我认为Instagram是平台中最不造作的。哦等等抱歉——应该说TikTok才是最不造作的，因为我觉得它可能是真正最个性化的，但当你处于心流状态时，那些被忽略的东西就很疯狂。你不会注意到每三个视频就有一个是广告，因为你完全沉浸其中

I think Instagram is the least cooked of the platforms. Like oh, sorry. Wait. TikTok is the least cooked because it's it's the one where I I feel like it is genuinely maybe the most personalized, but at the same time, it's crazy when you're in that flow state what you don't notice. You don't notice that every third video is literally an advertisement because you're in that flow state.

你会快速滑过广告。但如果你切换观看视角——比如你可以用沉浸状态看手机，也可以抽离片刻——滚动时不是看视频内容本身，而是观察视频的属性

You just quickly scroll past it. But if you if you tend like, if you detach your viewing angle, there's, like, different ways you can look at your phone. You can look at it, like, in that absorbed state or you can pull back a second. Scroll and look at what the video is, not not at the video itself. Look at what the video is.

每三个视频就有一个广告。然后开始思考：为什么这些视频与其他视频具有同等权重？隐含的逻辑是所有视频都值得同等关注。为什么这些信息要以如此碎片化的形式呈现？这如何影响我们接收这些信息的方式？

Every third video is gonna be an ad. And and start wondering, like, why are these videos presented with the same weighting as other videos? Like, the implicit thing is that all these videos deserve the same recognition. Why these videos presented in such a fragmentary context? How does that affect our viewing of the these messages?

嗯哼。而且他们怎么在你划走前三秒内塞进要传递的信息？

Mhmm. And how do they pack in their message in three seconds before they know you're gonna swipe away?

这对网红来说很关键。没错。除非我设计出超强钩子，否则50%的观众会在第一秒就离开

Well, that is critical as an influencer. Yeah. 50% of my viewers will leave in the first second unless I make a really compelling hook.

所以你说话一直这么快吗？

And that did that have you always spoken so quickly?

我通常说话很快。我的朋友们也证实了这一点，但在线上我会说得更快。而且我会根据不同的情境调整语速，比如对祖母就不会这么快。我现在想塞进大量信息，所以这可能是我现在语速快的原因。

I I am generally a fast talker. My friends corroborate, but I I do talk faster online. And I I will, again, talk differently in different context. I will not talk this quickly to my grandmother. I I wanna pack in a bunch of information right now, so that's probably why I'm talking quickly now.

是啊。

Yeah.

但在线上，我可能会说得更快。我会加重某些词的语气来吸引观众看完视频。如果觉得某个片段语速不够快或重音不对，我会反复重录。所以我非常注重表达方式，在'网红口音'那章里也讨论过这个问题。

But online, I will probably talk faster. I'll stress more words to keep you watching my video. I'll retake a single clip if I feel like I wasn't talking fast enough with the right stress. So I'm very extremely delivered with it and I talk about that in the influencer accent chapter.

没错。今天的节目由Blissy赞助。前几天朋友来我家时说：'昨晚睡得超好，多亏你送我的Blissy枕套'。

Yep. Yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by Blissy. The other day, my friend came over and she was like, oh, I slept so well last night. It's because I'm sleeping on the blissy pillowcase that you gave me.

因为他们寄了两套给我，我就想自己留一套送朋友一套。但Charlie可不需要皮肤科医生都推荐的这个护肤秘诀——该把棉质枕套换成真丝的。Charlie从来不长痘。

Because they sent me two, and I was like, I'll keep one. Then I'll get my friend. No. Charlie does not get the skincare secret that dermatologists tell all their clients, which is that you should get rid of cotton pillowcases and use silk pillowcases instead. Charlie does not get zits.

他根本没这种烦恼。

He does not, like, have a problem.

给他用浪费了。

Wasted on him.

完全浪费。你猜谁最需要？是我这种更年期前女性，想避免肮脏棉质枕套导致的无故爆痘。

Totally wasted. He needs, like, you know, who needs this? It's premenopausal women like me, who is trying to avoid getting unnecessary acne from my filthy cotton pillowcases.

还能让你夜间保持凉爽。

And also keep you cool at night.

确实，这是额外福利。我总是觉得太热，永远都是。Blissy枕套柔软至极，几周内就能看到更健康的皮肤和头发。这些真丝枕套比缎面的更好，因为缎面是合成材料制成的，对头发和皮肤都有摩擦。

It does, which is an added bonus. I'm always too hot. Always. Blissy's pillowcases are so soft, and you can see healthier skin and hair in just weeks. These silk pillowcases are better than satin because satin is made from synthetics, are rough on hair and skin.

缎纹面料价格较低是有原因的。这些枕套还能帮助减少毛躁、保持发型，并保护像我这样的染发。枕套有超过99种颜色可选。我选了非常典雅的象牙白。因为你是听众，Blissy特别提供60天无忧试用，在blissy.com/culturepod下单还可额外享受30%折扣。

There's a reason that satin is often cheaper. These pillowcases also help eliminate frizz, preserve hairstyles, and protect color treated hair like mine. The pillowcases come in over 99 colors. I have just like a very tasteful ivory. And because you're a listener, Blissy is offering sixty nights risk free, plus an additional 30% off when you shop at blissy.com/culturepod.

网址是blissy.com/culturepod，使用优惠码culturepod可再享30%优惠。你的肌肤和秀发会感谢你的。本期《文化研究播客》由Graza赞助播出。昨晚我们做了查理最爱的夏日慰藉美食——烤鸡肉凯撒沙拉。

That's blissy.com/culturepod, and use code culturepod to get an additional 30% off. Your skin and hair will thank you. This episode of the Culture Study Podcast is brought to you by Graza. Okay. So last night, we made Charlie's favorite comfort summer meal, which is grilled chicken Caesar salad.

他先腌制鸡肉，我则取些恰巴塔或法棍切片，两面都刷上Graza调味油后一起烤制。最后将烤面包和鸡肉切块放凉，拌入沙拉菜、番茄和简易凯撒酱。超爱这道菜。我们聊了很多Graza的用法。

He marinates some chicken, and then I take some, like, ciabatta or baguette and cut it up, and then I put some of the graza drizzle on both sides, and then he grills that as well. And then you bring in the grilled bread and the grilled chicken, and you cut it all up. Let it cool, and just put it on some, like, some salad mix and some tomatoes and little Caesar, like, sloppy Caesar dressing. Love it. We talk about all the things that we use graca for.

这个夏天我用它做沙拉、烧烤、炒菜，所有瓶子都快见底了。他们有适合烧烤的「滋啦油」，其实我该用它代替「淋淋油」的。这款也完美适合煎炸，我常用来做豆腐。

I'm almost done with all of my bottles because I've used them so much this summer for salads, for grilling, for stir frying, all sorts of things. So there's the frizzle, which you can use on your grill. And I maybe should have used that instead of the drizzle, but whatever. And it's also perfect for frying or crisping. I usually use it for my tofu as well.

「滋滋油」适合日常烹饪、烘烤、腌制和翻炒；「淋淋油」风味浓郁，搭配面包、冰淇淋或传统土豆沙拉绝佳。原料仅采用单一产区橄榄品种，没有神秘混搭，意味着更可溯源、更新鲜的纯品。挤压瓶设计也超棒——以前我得倒进小碗用刷子涂抹面包，现在直接精准挤压就行，爱死这个设计了。

There's this sizzle, which is just everyday cooking, roasting, marinating, sauteing. And then there's the drizzle, which has a bold punchy flavor, and it goes great on bread, on ice cream, and your classic potato salad. It's made with only one olive varietal from one region, so there's no mysterious blends. That means a traceable, fresher product without mixing in any lower grade or unknown oils. Also, comes in the squeeze bottle, which squeezing it on bread, like, usually I would have to put it into a little bowl, and then I have to, like, get my little paintbrush thing and paint it all over.

现在Graza官网首单可享9折，但我个人建议直接入手三件套。

Like, I can just squeeze it. It's so precise. I freaking love it. And right now, can get 10% off your first order on Graza's site. But I personally suggest grabbing the whole trio.

包含「滋滋」「滋啦」「淋淋」三款挤压瓶，满足所有烹饪需求。前往graza.co使用优惠码culture，三件套立享9折，即刻开启主厨级美食之旅。下一个问题关于广告中的语言渗透，来自罗宾。

That's all three squeezy bottles, sizzle, frizzle, and drizzle, so you're set for every style of cooking. Head to graza.co and use culture to get 10% off the trio, which includes sizzle, frizzle, and drizzle, and get to cooking your next chef quality meal. Our next question is a little bit more about how language is seeping into advertisements as well. This one comes from Robin.

作为千禧一代，现在总看到用网络语的广告，比如「姐妹你居然还没用过这个产品」之类。这让我抓狂，感觉又假又刻意。但肯定也有我没注意过的千禧俚语广告。这类广告对Z世代有效吗？

I'm a millennial, and I see ads all the time now that use Internet speak. Like, sis, you have been sleeping on this product, etcetera. It drives me nuts, and it feels so obvious and disingenuous. But I'm sure there are trends I used to not notice that use millennial slang to sell me things. These ads work on Gen z?

广告是否在用越来越非正式的网络语言拉近消费者？还是我对这类语言脱节了？

Are ads using more and more informal Internet speak to relate to their consumers? Or am I just out of the loop for this particular type of language?

好吧，看到这类广告时你怎么想？

Okay. So how do you think of these ads when you see them?

这里还有一个有趣的谷歌趋势给你。从2021年开始，'SIOP'这个词的搜索量激增。人们现在...它一直维持在较高水平。这表明现在发生的心理战术行动比以前更多。为什么会这样？

Here's another interesting Google trend for you. Starting in 2021, the word SIOP spiked. People are now and it's it's maintained at high levels. There's more of that there are psyops occurring than there used to be. And why is that?

再次说明，有种文化态度认为正在发生某些事，我们被操纵且心知肚明，却不知缘由。这些军事风格的剪辑可能是心理战，也可能只是人们借势营销。在创作者经济中，'真实性'成了营销热词。人们...

Again, there's sort of this cultural attitude that something's happening and we're being manipulated and we know that, but we don't know why. There's like these military edits and, like, they might be psyops. They might just be people capitalizing on this trend or whatever. You see this with with the marketing that it the buzzword in the creator economy is authenticity. People Yeah.

想要看起来有共鸣感的内容，这意味着要迎合这些审美。我认为很多品牌做得不好。少数确实突出的例子，比如多邻国在被TikTok抵制转向AI优先之前，他们非常擅长捕捉趋势并在TikTok上建立完整的品牌形象。

Want things that look relatable, that look so that does mean leaning into these aesthetics. I think a lot of brands are are bad at that. There's a few ones that really do stand out, like before Duolingo got canceled on TikTok for going AI first. They were incredibly good at tapping into trends and had this whole brand identity going on TikTok.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对此我一直感觉不太对劲。事实上我在书里多次批评多邻国，因为他们模仿非裔美国人英语和俚语的方式，都是为了推销他们糟糕的产品——这对语言学习其实没什么帮助。即使你知道这是个品牌，是多邻国在营销...

And that I've always kinda felt weird about that. I actually criticized Duolingo quite a bit in my book because, you know, you see them replicating the African American English and the slang worries, it's all to sell you more of their shitty product, which is not actually good for language learning. But so even when you know it's a brand, it's Duolingo. Oh, it's marketing. Yeah.

但还有很多你意识不到的营销。比如网红推广的新清洁产品，看ASMR视频时，那些疏通下水道的工具往往都链接着TikTok商店。你可能注意到了，但不会深想。更不会思考常规新闻中有多少是心理战。

But there's also a lot of stuff that you don't know is marketing. You know, the influencers plugging this new, like, cleaning product. Whenever you watch an ASMR video, usually, like, the thing used to clean the drain is also linked in the TikTok shop or below. And I mean, you can see that, but maybe you don't think about it as much. You don't even think about how much of the regular news is psyops.

我在推广这本书时很惊讶，多亏我出色的公关，有多少新闻机会被安排——比如我不知道你们，是我的公关牵的线。这是心理战吗？不知道。但这仍是营销，只是公关手段。

I was fascinated while while promoting this book, how many, like because of my incredible publicist, how many of these news opportunities got set up, like, I I didn't know about you guys and my publicist got me in touch. Is that a psy op? I don't know. It's still marketing. That's just publicity.

但我现在...这就是营销。我正在为你们做营销。所以如果我说些有趣的内容，其实是在另一层面推销我的书。我确实关心传播有趣观点，但总存在不同程度的营销和公关运作——当你看到'这家伙上了纽约时报'时，你不知道...

But I'm here well, that's marketing. I'm I'm here marketing for you. So if I'm say I'm saying something, like, interesting, it's because I'm marketing my book in another layer. I I do care about spreading interesting ideas, but there's always like layers of marketing and publicity that are happening in varying degrees that you're you don't know when you you read like, oh, this guy's in the New York Times. It's it's cool that they're writing this article about him.

你不知道这是精心设计的公关活动，目的是卖出更多我的书。

You don't know that this is a publicity campaign that's engineered to sell more copies of my book.

这太有意思了，因为了解内幕的人会说：多数情况下，某人能上纽约时报采访或播客，是因为你的公关给我发了新书新闻稿，我觉得很有趣。

So that's so interesting because I think if anyone who's on the other side who understands how this stuff works, they're like, yeah. Most of the time the way that someone ends up like there's an interview with them in the New York Times or or you show up in a podcast like, your publicist sent me a press release about the book and I was like, oh, that's interesting.

嗯，幕后有很多事情在运作，而你消费内容时并不会想到这些复杂的机制。是的，确实存在一些，但是...

Well, there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff happening and then you consume content not thinking about all these machinations going on. Yeah. There is this there's a few But

这就是媒体研究。比如，以前教过的

that's media studies. Like, used to teach

我对媒体非常着迷。我们来聊聊戏剧和电视的区别吧。二十世纪初有很多作家，用当时的俚语来说，对电影如何改变我们的感知感到崩溃——因为在戏剧中，你能看到所有幕后工作。你能意识到‘哦，这是表演，这是假的’。而看电影时，你不会想到制片、选角或导演。

I'm so into media Let's let's talk about like the difference between a play and a television. And there's a lot of people, writers in the, you know, early nineteen hundreds completely crashing out to use another slang word about how the the movie changes our perception because with a play, can see all the stuff behind the scenes. You can see that, oh, this is acting. This is fake. And you're watching a movie, you don't think about the producing, you don't think about the casting, you don't think about the directing.

你只是观看电影，把它当作电影接受，从而丧失了一些批判性视角。我觉得现在还可以比较电影和TikTok的区别。看电影时我们仍知道这是被呈现的，但媒介越沉浸，这种意识就越薄弱。当你处于TikTok的心流状态时，你正透过算法视角观看，甚至没有意识到这一点。

You just watch this movie, think accept it as a movie and you lose some of that critical perception. I think also let's look at the difference now between movies and TikTok. I think when we look at movies, we still know that there is something, you know, presented about this. It gets harder and harder the more absorbing the medium is to be aware of that. And and when you're in that TikTok flow state, you're you're looking through an algorithmic gaze that you're not even, like, considering, like yeah.

这其实回到了最初的问题——这些广告的意图就是不显露出广告属性。如何混入内容流让你在算法中看到我们的广告？就像你说的，人们对TikTok建构性的认知减弱了。至少在Instagram上，你会看到好友的婴儿照片旁边挨着广告，再旁边是加沙新闻。

Well and I think this goes back to the original question. Right? That, like, of what these ads are trying to do is to not signal themselves as ads. How do we blend in so that you stay in the algorithm with our ad? And as you were saying, the awareness of TikTok as, like, constructed, it's lessened because we off like, at least on Instagram, you have, like, your best friend's baby next to an ad next to news about Gaza.

对吧？所有这些都被扁平化为同质信息流（语境坍塌）。TikTok上也是如此，我们仍以那种方式观看，很难把每个视频视为制作产物。

Right? Like, all of these are flattened into one stream context collapse. And on TikTok, I think it still happens. Like, we're still viewing it in that way where it's harder to think of each of these videos as, like, a work of production.

对。在我看来这类似于植入广告和明确广告的区别。有些广告你明知是广告仍会看，有时会潜意识记住‘前几天电视上有可口可乐’。

Right. Well, it's it's it's kind of the difference to me between, like, product placement and, like, an ad that you know is an ad. There's a lot of these ads you know are ads. You still look at them. Sometimes you, like, subconsciously pick up on, oh, there was a Coca Cola on the TV the other day.

我可能更想买可口可乐了，但这不是有意识的决策，仅仅是存在感影响了你的广告空间。植入广告更隐蔽，你甚至意识不到自己看了广告。社交媒体上很多这类操作仍在继续，所以从植入广告的角度看，情况未必比电视时代更糟。

I might be more inclined to buy Coca Cola. But it's not you know, you don't consciously think about that, but it's just the availability or presence influences your ad space. Same with the product placement, but the product placement is less obvious. Like, you you might not even be aware that you looked at an ad in the same way a lot of that, it kind of still is happening on on social media. So maybe the product placement analogy means it's not any that much worse than it was on TV.

不过可能我们现在看得更多了？说不准，这很有趣。

But maybe we're watching more of this. I don't know. It's interesting.

你觉得是谁决定使用这些营销话术？人们总说‘温迪汉堡有个厉害的实习生管理推特账号’，其实根本不是...

Who do you think makes the decision to use these words? Like, people always say, oh, like, Wendy's has a great intern, like, running their Twitter account when no

比如说，一个会议。套路也是，嗯，目的是让他们听起来更接地气。就像那个负责运营的Z世代实习生。我是说，也许

one's like, a meeting. Trope is also, like well, it's meant to make them sound more relatable. Like, the the Gen z intern running the yeah. I mean, maybe

实际上可能很多是千禧一代。就像有一屋子的千禧一代在说，这就是Z世代在用的东西。

When it's actually probably a lot of millennials. There's like a room of millennials who are like, here's what gen z is using.

我们能找到一个更接地气的形象吗？所以，即使你知道自己正在被广告轰炸，你也会更愿意接受它。我在书中探讨的一个现象是TikTok上微标签的泛滥，比如美学、时尚、田园风、地精风、古风、干净女孩风、娇俏风、辣妹风。这些都是美学标签，但它们被包装成完整的生活方式。

Can we get a profile more relatable. So, like, even though you know you're being advertised to, you're more willing to accept it. One thing I examine in the book is the proliferation of TikTok micro labels for, like, aesthetics, fashions, cottagecore, goblincore, ancientcore, clean girl, coquette, baddie. All these are, like, aesthetics. They're packaged as entire lifestyles.

田园风有一种特定的服装风格，但它也是一种音乐风格，一种家居装饰风格。所有这些都属于田园风。这对算法也有好处，因为现在算法有更多方式将你作为一个人分类，这意味着它们可以推荐更个性化的内容，从而更好地锁定你这个人。但现在方便的是，田园风服装在TikTok商店里一点就能买到。因为你喜欢那种属于某个圈子的感觉，当你收到田园风视频时，你会觉得自己很特别。

There's, like, a style of clothing that's cottagecore, but it's also, like, a style of music, a style of decorating your home. All these are cottagecore. They're also good for the algorithm because now the algorithm has more ways to categorize you as a person, which means they can recommend more personalized content, which means they can better target you as an individual. But also now conveniently, cottagecore clothing is click away in the TikTok shop. And because you like that feeling of being an in group, you feel special when you get a cottagecore video.

你真的很认同这种感觉。你会觉得算法真的很懂我，但算法推送田园风视频是因为它试图向你推销田园风这个概念。

You really identify with it. You're like the algorithm really knows me, but the algorithm's pushing cottagecore videos because it's trying to sell you cottagecore as a concept.

对，是的。我想很多听众都见过这种情况，或者因此感到疏离。因为有时候它推送得太用力了，你会想，真的需要一个身份吗？你得自己找到一个身份。这更像是，我被推送了所有这些东西，然后我决定通过这些购买来定义自己。

Yeah. Yes. I think a lot of people listening have seen this or like been alienated by it, I think. Because sometimes it is pushing so hard and you're like, really an identity like you have to come to an identity yourself. Like, it's less about I'm being served all of these things and I decide to align myself with all of these purchases.

它就像，一个身份是整个大杂烩，

It had like, an identity is is a whole amalgamation of,

对。

like Right.

我想成为世界上的样子。嗯，想想因为，

How I wanna be in the world. Well, think because,

是的，标签的存在与身份是循环的。因为一旦一个标签出现，你要么认同它，要么反对它。你不能忽视这个标签的存在。所以标签越多，它影响我们身份的方式可能就越多。对我来说，还有一个有趣的问题是，什么时候某个东西真的变成了SIOP？

yeah, the existence of a label is circular with identity. Because now once a label is out there, you either identify with or against it. You can't ignore the fact that label is there. And so the more labels there are, the more ways it's impacting our identity perhaps. It's also interesting to me at what point does something actually become a SIOP?

很多这类田园风视频其实来自真正的田园风创作者，他们确实喜欢这种美学，但也在复制它，因为算法在推动。但他们并不觉得自己参与了心理战，但在某种程度上，这仍然是一种心理战。

A lot of these cottagecore videos are from actual cottagecore creators who, you know, they do like the aesthetic, but they're replicating it because the algorithm is pushing it. But they they they don't feel like they're complicit in a psyop, but it on some level, it still is a psyop.

你还好吗？当你提到心理战时，我会想到像爱泼斯坦文件那样的心理战。对我来说，那更像是更复杂的事情在发生。但你指的是任何被潜意识影响的事物。

Do you okay. Let's when you say psyop, I think of psyop as, like, the Epstein files. Like, that to me, like, there's much more like, there's stuff going on that's more complicated. But you're talking about anything that is, like, sublimated.

是的，可能我用了一个更宽泛的定义。这是一种试图潜意识影响公众对某事物看法的尝试。对我来说就是这样。

Yeah. Maybe I'm using a broader definition. It's like an intent an attempt to subconsciously sway public opinion about something. Yeah. That that to me is yeah.

我是说，那就像是当然。

I mean, that's just like sure.

是的，那么这个词是我们现在使用的方式吗？

Yeah. Like, so is it like, is that a way like, word that we use now

或者在互联网上口语化使用的，不仅仅是说服，而是不以说服形式呈现的说服。是的。如果我公开这样做，可能就不那么像心理战了，或者至少我认为我们应该公开进行心理战。

or that use? Colloquially used on the Internet is not just persuasion, but persuasion when it's not presented as such. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm open about it, maybe it's less of a a psyop or at least I think we should be doing our psyops in public.

我在我的YouTube粉丝中做过几次实验，比如告诉他们我正在对他们进行实验，然后他们参与了实验，效果还不错。

I I've run a few experiments on my, like, YouTube followers where I'm like, here, I'm running an experiment on you And they, you know, they participate in the experiment and it, like, it works.

所以这些东西，我在想，如果某件事是心理战，那它就不是别的。如果我们用这种二元思维，它是被理解为与真正真实的事物相对的吗？

So is this stuff that, like I'm just thinking, you know, if something is a psy op, then it's not another thing. Like, if we're thinking in these dualities, like, is it understood as opposed to things that are actually authentic?

我认为真实性某种程度上是我们头脑中虚构的。没有普遍的真实性。是的。

So I think authenticity is kind of made up in our heads. Like, there's no universal Yeah.

真实性就是一种心理战。对吧？没错。

Authenticity is a psyop. Right? Right.

就像，所有在那个层面上的东西，你知道的。对。对。对。真实性其实就是我们对被营销的感觉有多好。

Like, everything that is on that, you know, level. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Authenticity is just how good do we feel about being marketed to.

是的。这是个非常好的定义。好的。我们还有一个问题，这是我经常在某个年龄段的人身上看到的。是关于一种说话方式的，梅洛迪会来读这个问题。

Yes. That is a really good definition. Okay. We have one more question, and it's something that I see all the time with a certain age of person. It's about a type of speech, and Melody's gonna read it.

这个问题来自希瑟。

This question comes from Heather.

什么是‘小狗式说话’？这和‘狗狗语’不同，比如‘太棒了’这种也很烦人。但我听到现实生活中有人像小狗狗一样说话。‘我是个好女孩。我想要主人给的小零食。’

What's up with pupper speech? This is different from doge speech like much wow, which is also annoying. But I hear people in real life talk like they are little baby dogs. Me was a good girl. Me want treaties from my human.

无论是替宠物说话还是关于宠物时，或者试图装可爱时都这样。对我来说就像指甲刮黑板一样难受。好吧。这是不是像《狗狗》

Both while talking for pets or about pets and while trying to sound cute. It's like nails on a chalkboard for me. Okay. Is this like The dog

无言以对。是啊。

was speechless. Yeah.

是啊。不。这到底是从哪来的？

Yeah. No. Where does this come from?

嗯，我是说，这直接来源于互联网上关于狗狗的模因审美。但其实我们像对孩子一样对小狗说话是有现实依据的。一来它们确实让我们想起孩子，它们有大眼睛看起来很可爱。所以我们就会不自觉地用对孩子的方式。

Well, I mean, well, that directly comes from an Internet aesthetic of, you know, meme aesthetic of talking about dogs. But there there is a real kind of grounding to why we talk to our puppies like their children. One, they do remind us of children. They have like big eyes and they look cute. So we kind of revert to childlike tendencies.

而且研究表明用唱歌般的语调对孩子说话有真实的心理益处。我们天生就会这样对孩子说话，这背后有真实的进化目的。所以有时候我们会混淆，也用这种方式对小狗说话就很合理了。

And there's shown to be like real psychological benefits to talking to your children like a sing song voice. We naturally do that to our children. There's there's a real evolutionary purpose behind that. So it makes sense that, you know, sometimes we'd get our wires crossed and also talk to puppies like that.

是不是像‘我不能帽子汉堡’那样？就像，是不是像

Is it like I Can't Hats Cheeseburger? Like, is that like

这很相似。就是那只猫。对吧？但它确实带有那种千禧一代幽默的美学风格。

That's similar. That's the cat. Right? But it's, yeah, it's in that sort of millennial humor aesthetic. But

你能会

Can you would

当我说词语有氛围时，词语是通过支撑美学演变的，这些美学反映了文化态度——比如什么有趣、什么好看、什么酷。所有这些都影响了我们对某些语言的采用。

When I say words have vibes, words evolve and are shaped through underpinning aesthetics that like, cultural attitudes toward what's funny or what's a good thing to look at or what's cool. All these affect our adoption of certain language.

是的。如果你听一个人说话足够久，你能分辨出来吗？比如，如果你只是一个播客中的无实体声音，你能判断他们属于哪一代人，或者他们是在互联网的哪个时代长大的吗？

Yeah. Can you tell when like, if you listen to someone for long enough, can you tell, like, if you were just, like, disembodied voice on a podcast? Like, what generation they are or what generation of Internet they were raised in?

我觉得有一些标志性用语。比如我五分钟前说的‘crash out’，这明显表明我是个沉迷网络的Z世代TikTok用户。其他人可能不会这么说，或者如果你用‘pupper’这个词，那你就是‘熟了’。我刚说这个词也暴露了自己。

I I think there are some shibboleths. I mean, the fact I said crash out, like, five minutes ago, that, like, that clearly signals I'm a chronically online Gen Z TikTok person. Yeah. Like, yeah, other people might not say that or if you use the word pupper, like, you're cooked. It's I mean, I just also added myself by saying that.

但是

But

没错。Pupper。

Yes. Pupper.

哦，我喜欢蓝心红心这个例子。语言学取证就像这个领域，他们真的能锁定你的人口统计特征。你有没有做过《纽约时报》的方言测试？这个很有趣，大家应该试试。它会问你25个问题，然后能准确说出你来自哪个城市。

Oh, I like the blue heart red heart thing. They're like, I mean, linguistic forensics is like this field that, like, they can really pin down, like, your demographic and, you know have you ever done the New York Times dialect quiz? This is a fascinating one. People should do this. It it, like, will you ask it asks you 25 questions, and it can tell exactly what city you're you're from.

所以它通过这些地理标志词，但我们也有社会群体标志词，比如能识别我们的东西。我们都根据文化背景或地理位置说着独特的话，所有这些结合在一起。实际上，现在算法也能理解这一点。算法把表情符号当作一种生物权力形式来分析你的话语，以便更好地定位你。现在有了更多可分析的词汇，比如‘cottagecore’，这对算法更有利。

So it does these geographic shibboleths, but we also have social group shibboleths, like things that identify us. We all speak kind of uniquely based on our cultural background or geographic location, all of that combined. And actually, now that's also understood by the algorithm. The algorithms, like, use emojis as a form of biopower. Like, they analyze, like, your words to better target you, and now the fact that there's more words to analyze, like, cottagecore is just better for the algorithm.

它是如何分析我们的表情符号的？

How does it analyze our emojis?

这是一种独特的人类情感分类方式。没错，就像通过表情符号能判断一个人的社交群体。算法确实会关注这些——如果你在TikTok视频里使用特定表情，它们就知道你是哪类人。

It's a unique form of categorizing human emotion. It's Yeah. A form of understanding like, you can tell the social group someone's in from the emojis they're using. And algorithms do pay attention to that. If you upload a TikTok video using certain emojis, they know you're a certain kind of person.

要是我每次提到狗狗都用小鬼表情呢？比如专门用那个小恶魔表情。

What if I just use the gremlin emoji to, like whenever I talk about my dog, I use, like, the gremlin.

那它们会认为你觉得这种搞笑风格很合适。

Well, they know you think that's a funny aesthetic to use.

哦，这样

Oh, that

说得通。我现在用的其实是拟人化表达。简化来说...虽然我很想破除这种观念，但确实很难避免将算法比喻成有生命的实体——它实际是连工程师都难以理解的复杂过程集合体，被称为黑箱。一旦编程完成，就脱离他们的掌控了。

makes sense. I'm using, like, personifying language. Simplifying. It's very hard to avoid metaphorical kind of anthropomorphization of the of the algorithm which I do wanna dispel like That it's it's like a whole complicated series of processes that not even the engineers understand what's happening because it's called a a black box. Once they program it, it's out of their control.

不过简单来说，我总体上...

But to simplify it, like, I generally, yeah.

说到你的研究——这正是我特别欣赏你著作和视频的地方。多数算法研究者并不亲身参与其中，而你本质上像是个嵌入式研究者。最近算法有什么让你困惑或着迷的现象吗？比如哪些特别有趣？

With your own work, and this is something I really admire about your your book and then also just like your videos generally, like, most people who study algorithms are not also participating in them. And so you basically get to have, like you're an embedded researcher in a lot of ways. But what are you noticing right now with the algorithm that is confusing you, that is beguiling you? Like, what's interesting?

确实。我最近特别关注Instagram权重调整和AI内容激增的现象。平台偏爱AI内容归根结底是利润驱动——AI视频越多，需要支付创作者的报酬就越少。

Yeah. I think the changed weightings on Instagram or something I'm really paying attention to, the proliferation of AI, they like AI. It's think about everything comes down to their profit model. If you have more AI videos, there's less you have to pay creators. So it makes sense.

Spotify现在推荐歌单里开始推送AI生成音乐了。有个案例具体数字我可能记错，但大概月播放量30万次，完全由AI生成。这已被证实是他们操作的

Spotify is pushing AI generated music in recommended playlist now. There's a Spotify bandwidth, like I don't wanna get the number wrong. Something like 300,000 monthly listens and it's completely AI generated. And this was proven that they were doing

就是那个模仿经典摇滚风格的？对，对对。

this, which is sounds like the one that sounds like it's like classic rockers. Nash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

《Switched on Pop》有一期很棒的内容，讲述了如何识别任何AI生成内容的蛛丝马迹。

There's a great Switched on Pop episode about how you can find the tells for anything that's AI generated.

我对Spotify太失望了。我已经关掉了算法推荐，因为算法还有个问题——你会失去人工策展的意义。当你从头到尾听完一张专辑，它的排序是有深层含义的，是有人为了传达某种意图而精心安排的。

I I'm so disillusioned with Spotify. I I've I turned off the the algorithm, like because also here's another thing with algorithms. You lose the meaning of human curation. When you listen to an album top to bottom, there's there's a meta meaning in how it's organized. Somebody put it in that order for a meeting.

或者当你听某人精心制作的混音带或歌单时，那里包含着额外的情感。作为一个追求意义的人类，这种感觉很棒。寻找意义正是我们人类的特质，而算法却通过那些无序的推荐剥夺了这种体验，甚至塞给你根本不是人类创作的音乐。

Or when you listen to a mix tape or plays that somebody created with intent, there's some extra meaning. And that feels wonderful to me as a human that likes meaning. Like, that's what we do as humans. We look for meaning. Algorithms kinda suck that out by giving these, like, recommended like, there's no order, and then you stuff not even real human music into this.

作为人类，这让我感觉更糟。虽然说到底，我也可以单纯享受音乐氛围，但你知道...

It feels worse for me as a human. I guess, like, at the end of the day, I could just, like, vibe and enjoy the music, which is, you know

但那不就是电梯音乐吗？这就是为什么人们说Spotify算法本质上就是电梯音乐——它只提供氛围，既不是真正的品味，甚至也不算根据你的口味来推荐。

Well, but that's elevator music. Right? And this is why people call the Spotify algorithm, like, effectively elevator music is this idea that, like, it's just a vibe. Like, it's not actually taste. It's not even curating to your taste.

它在很多方面试图隐形，它试图...

It's trying to disappear in many ways. It's trying

制造声音...要我说这根本就是心理战术。

to make sound it's it's a psyop if anything.

确实是心理战术。这次对话太精彩了。如果听众想在网上找到你，该去哪里？

It is a psyop. This has been fantastic. If people wanna find you on the Internet, where can they find you?

我的网名是Adam Maojinard，但更推荐购买我的书《算法话语》，在那里我能更少受算法限制。谢谢你。

My name is Adam Maojinard online, but it's much better to buy the book, Algo Speak, where I'm less constrained by the algorithm. But thank you. Yeah.

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这档文化研究播客由我——安妮·海伦·彼得森和梅洛迪·罗威尔共同制作。我们的音乐由波丁顿熊创作。你可以在Instagram上找到我（Anne Helen Petersen）、梅洛迪（Melodius forty seven）以及本节目（Culture Study Pod）。

The culture study podcast is produced by me, Anne Helen Petersen, and Melody Rowell. Our music is by Podington Bear. You can find me on Instagram at Anne Helen Petersen, Melody at Melodius forty seven, and the show at Culture Study Pod.