第79集 | 蒂姆·格罗弗

欢迎来到《好奇的乔什·佩克》。节目开始。欢迎回到《好奇》播客。我是乔什·佩克，你们的主持人，而你们是听众，这就是你们的角色。

Welcome to Curious with Josh Peck. Start the show. Welcome back to the Curious podcast. My name is Josh Peck, and I'm your host, and your name is listener. And that's what you do.

你们负责听就好。这一周真是够呛。这人生啊。真的。抱歉。

You listen guys. What a week. What a life. Really. Sorry.

我正坐在医院附近，因为经过我的警笛声比重大事故现场还多。这儿到底怎么了？说真的？听着，我理解警笛的必要性，而且你们听好了，我尊重警笛吗？你最好给我相信。

I'm sitting by a hospital apparently because there are more freaking sirens going by me than a major like a a major incident. What is happening here? Really? I mean, listen, I understand the need for sirens and I you listen, do I respect a siren? You better freaking believe it.

救护车经过时我会猛打方向盘靠边。我可以横跨三四个车道，开上人行道，然后把手伸出窗外，实实在在地挥手示意救护车先行，就为了强调我有多配合。因为我真心认同。懂我意思吗？

I pull over hard when an ambulance goes by. I'll cross three or four lanes. I'll drive on the sidewalk, and then I'll put my arm out the window and literally wave the ambulance by me just to reinforce how much I'm complying. Because I believe in it. You know what I'm saying?

那辆救护车里可能有个垂死的人，要是被我这辆十万美金的SUV堵住，谁知道他们能不能活下来？能不能及时赶到医院？说实话，我甘当救护车的护航员。懂吗？比如有救护车经过时，他们摇下车窗说'打扰了，市民？'

There can be someone in that ambulance who is dying, and if they got stuck behind my $100,000 SUV, who knows if they would survive? If they would get to the hospital in time, you know? I'll be an escort for an ambulance, honestly. You know what I'm saying? Like, an ambulance came by me, and they rolled down their window, and they said, excuse me, civilian?

我就回答'怎么了，急救员？'他说'我们遇到紧急情况'，我会接'紧急情况？我就是为紧急情况而生的'。然后他说'我需要赶到最近的医院，但得确保没有忍者、劫匪或帮派分子挡路'。

And I said, yes, EMT worker? And he said, we've got we've got a situation. And I would reply, situations? I was born for situations. And then he says, I need to get to the nearest hospital, but I need to make sure that, like, no ninjas or hijackers or gang members try to, like, block our way.

'能否用你的车帮忙开路，让我这个急救司机把可怜的病人安全送达？'我会说'这不仅是我的荣幸，更是责任，乐意效劳。出发吧！给我配上警笛和警灯，走起！'

Can you run interference with your automobile while I, the EMT driver, gets this sad patient to safety? And I would say, it would be not only an honor, but my responsibility, and I would be happy to assist you. Let's hit it. I'm gonna need sirens and lights. Let's go.

我会成为那辆救护车与任何危险浪潮之间的隐秘屏障。想象一下，如果是詹姆斯·邦德式的场景，有人试图用油陷阱让车轮打滑，或是从车底发射迷你火箭攻击救护车，我会挺身干扰，默默牺牲成为无名英雄——这基本就是我的人生唯一目标。说到死亡，我33岁了，上周日刚过生日。那是个不错的生日。

And I would, you know, I would be the subterfuge in between that ambulance and any, you know, waves of danger that came our way. I'm talking, you know, if it was like James Bond style and people tried to shoot like oil traps to make the wheels skid out or have like those little mini rockets that come up from under like the undercarriage of the car and shoot it at the ambulance, I would interfere and and I would die a silent hero, which is basically my only goal in life anyway. Speaking of death, I'm 33. It was my birthday on Sunday. It was a nice birthday.

孩子病了，妻子也病了。所以这个生日完全与我无关。但你知道吗？我觉得这样挺好。

My kid is sick. My wife is sick. So it really wasn't about me at all. And you know what? That's fine by me.

清醒状态带来的诸多恩赐中，最奇妙的是学会接受'事情不以我为中心'这种隐秘的祝福——这是我在自我成长过程中获得的重要品质之一。要知道，换作以前，这个生日本会让我对自己的处境极度不满，抱怨缺乏关注，纠结事情'本该如何'，最终把本就不易的局面搞得更糟。因为我会强行把一切变成关于我的闹剧，而现实是：作为成年人，我们根本不需要大张旗鼓过什么鬼生日。差不多得了。

I you know, it's amazing. The one thing I will say amongst like the many wonderful, sort of blessings or or positives of sobriety, the the ability in which to accept when things aren't about me as like a sort of surreptitious blessing has been one of the great sort of qualities, many qualities that I've learned in doing a little work on myself. You know, because this Sunday, my birthday, would have been the perfect setup for me to get good and dissatisfied with my situation, unhappy that there wasn't more focus on me, expectation of the way things should have gone, and basically, I would have turned what was a little bit of a challenging situation into something ever so worse. Because I would have made it all about me when the reality is I'm a grown up, so I don't need to be having fucking birthdays as it is. It's like enough already.

我有朋友说'我44岁了，租了个宴会厅'。我就想：44岁？还搞这套？最糟的是他们说'我们要去戴夫巴斯特餐厅庆生'。兄弟，我真不想和你玩《时空危机》射击游戏。

I got friends who are like, I'm 44. I rented out a hall. I'm like, you're 44? And you're fucking Or like the worst is when they're like, we're gonna go to Dave and Buster's. I'm like, I don't wanna play time crisis with you, bro.

恕我直言，你已经度过了足够多的健康生日，在这世上活了挺长时间。把生日留给孩子们庆祝吧，我们成年人就该像成年人那样出去吃个饭。21岁之后还过分重视生日的人，说实话人生巅峰早过了。

Like, with all due respect, I, you know, I just don't wanna like, you've had a, you know, a healthy amount of birthdays. You've been on this earth for a while. Let the children enjoy birthdays, and we'll go out to dinner like grown ups do. You know what I mean? But like people that put emphasis on their birthday after 21, it's kinda all downhill from here anyway.

老实说，里程碑式的生日（30、40、50岁，或许35岁）我能理解，想搞得隆重些也正常。但总的来说，该看开了。

Let's be honest. I understand a milestone birthday, 30, 40, 50, maybe 35. I get that. You know, maybe you wanna put a little bit extra razzle dazzle on it. But overall, get over it already.

拜托，谁还没个生日？没什么特别的。我这个周末的生日当然也不例外。但你知道吗？

Fuck. We all have a birthday. It's not that special. And mine sure wasn't this weekend. But you know what?

我醒了。我妻子感觉不舒服。我的孩子，他也不舒服。当孩子生病时，真让人难过。他们小小的肺里发出婴儿的咳嗽声，还带着婴儿的鼻涕。

I woke up. My wife didn't feel good. My kid, he don't feel good. When kids get sick, it's sad. They got the little baby cough coming out of the little baby lungs with their baby mucus.

难过。挣扎着。所以我说，来吧。把孩子放进婴儿车里。我也不知道。

Sad. Struggling. So I said, come on. Threw the kid in the carriage. I don't know.

我想那应该叫婴儿车吧。不知道为什么我叫它马车。感觉自己像个，你知道的，十九世纪的马车夫。把他放进去。我对妻子说。

I guess it's called a stroller. I don't know why I call it a carriage. I feel like a, you know, like a nineteenth century, like, horse and buggy driver. Throw him in. I said to the wife.

我说，老婆，你好好休息。吃点药，一些速达菲之类的，

I said, wife, you relax you. You take some medicines, some of the Sudafeds and the whatnot,

你

you

放松，恢复。爸爸在这儿。生日？什么？我完全没意识到今天是我生日。

relax, recover. I'm dad is here. Birthday? What? I have no conception that it's my birthday.

我他妈太无私了。总之，她感激地上床休息了。我带着孩子去了农贸市场。我们玩得很开心。开车带他转悠，他在车里睡着了，办了杂事，听了播客，然后回家。

I'm so fucking selfless. Anyway, she went to bed, appreciative. I took that kid around the farmer's market. We had a nice time. Drove him around, slept in the car, did errands, listened to podcasts, came home.

你知道吗，妻子感觉好些了。孩子打了个盹。砰。我们享用了一顿美好的晚餐。就这样。

You know, the wife's feeling a little better. Kid takes a nap. Boom. We have a nice dinner. That's it.

这就是我所需要的。而且，结果这一天变得非常美好，因为我没有插手干预——这本就是我的责任所在。我敢大胆猜测，并非要强加给你人生责任，这可以简化为一句我认为至关重要的箴言：别把事情搞砸。别让好局面变糟，也别让坏局面雪上加霜。

That's all I needed. And, and it turned out to be a wonderful day because I didn't get in the way of which is my responsibility. And I would venture to guess, and I don't mean to project your responsibility in life, which is, and I can distill it down to an easy phrase that I think is one of the most important things to remember at all times. Don't make shit worse. Don't make a good situation worse, and don't make a bad situation worse.

这道理其实双向适用。我曾经是这方面的'王者'，因为总把一切围绕自己转。如果我对事态发展不满意，你绝对会听到我的抱怨。但现在，我学会退后一步。任其自然，并尽力把握最佳可能。

It kinda works both ways. And I used to be the king of that because I would make it all about me. And if I had if I was dissatisfied with the way in which the situation was going, you better believe I was gonna make it known. But now, I sit back. I let it happen, and I try to make the best of it.

没错。今天节目嘉宾是蒂姆·格罗弗。认识他吗？我是说，这家伙简直不可思议。他算是那种...该怎么形容呢？

Yeah. On today's show, Tim Grover. Know him? I mean, this guy is incredible. He's kind of what would you say?

他有点像体育界的'心灵导师'。身为畅销书作家和主题演讲人，从迈克尔·乔丹到科比·布莱恩特都曾与他合作。在运动员心态与心理博弈领域，他堪称天才级人物，声名显赫。

He's a little bit of like the sports whisperer. He's a best selling author and keynote speaker. He's worked with everyone from Michael Jordan to Kobe Bryant. And he's just kind of brilliant when it comes to the, you know, the mindset and the mental game of an athlete. He's he's he's renowned.

明白吗？他的著作《永不满足》是必读经典。他能与众多世界顶级运动员合作绝非偶然——不仅在体能层面，更能在心理层面帮助他们持续保持巅峰状态，甚至突破极限。我对这类'心灵导师'深感着迷，他们真正懂得如何触及卓越的思维内核。非常感谢蒂姆接受访谈。他在播客前读过我的简介，似乎特别关注了我的配音工作部分。

You know? His book, Relentless, is a is a must read, and there's a reason why he's worked with some of the greatest athletes in the world because not only physically, but mentally, he can help them to sort of continue to work at their highest capacity or maybe, just maybe, break through to that next level. So I'm fascinated by, you know, whisperers like this, guys that really know how to sort of get into the mind of greatness. And so I really appreciate that Tim sat down with me. Tim had read my bio before the podcast, and I think he, you know, he kinda there was a bit of an emphasis on my voice over work.

我想他对这点非常感兴趣，所以我们深入探讨了这个话题。好了，有请蒂姆·格罗弗。请欣赏。

I think he was very interested in that, so we do talk a lot about that. But, yeah. Here's Tim. Enjoy. Tim Grover.

好的。谢谢。完美。

Alright. Thank you. Perfect.

太棒了。就在那儿。开机。蒂姆，谢谢你

Love it. Right there. On. Tim, thank you

帮忙做这个，兄弟。哦，不客气，兄弟。谢谢你邀请我来这儿。这真是太棒了，兄弟。调整日程安排等等，你知道的，大家都很忙。

for doing this, man. Oh, no problem, man. Thank you for having me out here. This is this is awesome, man. Adjusting the schedule and everything, You know, everybody's busy.

是的。所以呢。我很高兴她当时坐在飞机上。她就说，现在我们必须重新安排一切。我当时就想，然后最疯狂的部分来了。

Yes. So yeah. So I'm glad I was she was sitting on the plane. She was like, now we gotta switch everything around. I was like and then here's the crazy part about this.

我们不仅延误了两个半小时，网络还时断时续。所以她发邮件尝试发送，没网络。等半小时，又恢复了。

Not only were we two and a half hours delayed, the Internet kept going in and out. So she'd send an email and try to send it. No Internet. Wait a half hour. It kept back on.

是啊。因为我们当时在外面。情况就像，听着。我知道你们安排这个有多困难。我当时就想，我们必须完成这个，但真的非常感谢你们。

Yeah. Because we were out. It was like, listen. I know how difficult it was for you guys to schedule this. I was like, we gotta this done, but thank you so much.

我完全听你的。

I'm all yours.

是的，我很感激。

Yeah. I appreciate it.

告诉我你能行的。听着，第一个问题，你曾与那些伟大人物共事过。

Tell you can me alright. So listen. First question. You you've worked with the greats.

谢谢。科比·布莱恩特，嗯，迈克尔·乔丹。

Thank you. Kobe Bryant. Mhmm. Michael Jordan.

对，仅举几例。现在看看我，我是否散发出他们那种气质？我们之间有什么共通之处吗？

Yeah. Just to name a few. Take me in right now. Am I exuding anything that they exude? Is there any connection here?

好吧，听着。虽然从身高来看你或许不具备——尽管你身高上——

Well, listen. But you got maybe not from a physical standpoint, even though you're height wise

我

I'm

已经 你已经 你已经 我已经受伤了。你确实有些身高优势。但听着，我想说的是，NBA里没人能像他们那样打球，就是没有。

already You got you got you got I'm already hurt. You got some you got some height. But listen. You know what I try to tell is nobody there's people in the NBA that aren't gonna play basketball like those guys. There's just not.

但从心态角度来看，你知道，如果你审视个人所取得的成就——我很少做播客，真的很少。我喜欢与独特个体合作，也偏爱那些真正有所建树的人。刚才我其实正在研读你的履历，上面记录了你所有的成就

But from a mindset standpoint, you know, if you look at the accomplishments that individuals have done and you know what I like to do is I do very few podcasts. Very few. Alright. I like to do them with unique individuals, and I also like to do them with people that have actually done something. So you know, right now, I was actually I reading over your bio of all the stuff that you've done

我注意到了。

I saw that.

你所完成的一切。最令我印象深刻的是，你的履历不仅谈及成就，也坦诚面对挑战。你说过，健康与体重问题一直困扰着你。这种坦率很难得。

That you've done. And the thing that impresses me the most is on your bio, not only you talk about your accomplishments, you talk about your challenges also. Know, you said, hey, listen. You know, health and weight has always been an has always been an issue for you. So you're you're open about that.

另一点让我深感共鸣的是——这让我联想到你与科比·布莱恩特、迈克尔·乔丹这类传奇人物的共通之处。

And the other thing that's, like, really impressive that I find this is where I say the connection is with you, with, like, a Kobe Bryant or a or my or or a Michael Jordan or those individuals.

我在听。

I'm listening.

好。你没有把自己局限在单一领域。演员、YouTube红人、配音艺术家——这很特别，因为人们往往不了解这需要多少努力和天赋。多年前我有幸在《空中大灌篮》片场见到乔丹。

Okay. You didn't pigeonhole yourself into one thing. Actor, YouTube sensation, you know, voice over. Now there's that's something special because people don't realize how much work and talent it takes to do something like that. I was fortunate enough to be on the on the set with Michael Jordan when he did the Space Jam many, many years ago.

不会吧？是的。所以我亲眼目睹了幕后工作流程：绿幕特效、动画制作、各种配音工序。能结识像你这样在多元领域取得辉煌成就的人很难得——从《史酷比》到《忍者神龟》，你塑造了那么多经典角色。

No way. Yeah. So it got I got to see, like, the real the background of how all that works and the green screens and the animation and the different voice overs and the things that people have to do to sow to be able to hear and sit with an individual that's had so much success in all these different things and the different characters you've done. You know, you've been part of a Scooby Doo movie, the Ninja Turtles, and all all

这些恭维话。

these flattered.

所有这些所有这些不同的事情。但它说的是能够在所有这些不同的事情上如此多样化且成功。你知道吗？就像，好吧。所以我当时就想，好吧。

All these all these different things. But it's it's saying being able to be so diverse and successful in all these different things. You know? It's like, okay. So I was like, alright.

你拿比如说你拿你的忍者神龟。我们可以把它比作篮球比赛中的进攻部分。然后你还有你的史酷比，甚至是你为之配音的视频游戏，你知道，你为电子游戏做配音工作。那可以是你的防守部分。所以你有调整的能力，你知道，如果进攻在某个时候不奏效，你可以转向防守。

You take let's say you take your ninja ninja turtle. Let's consider that the offensive part of a basketball game. And then you then you have your your Scooby Doo or even your video games that, you know, you do voice you do stuff for video games. That could be your defensive part. So you have the ability to adjust, your ability you know, if the offense isn't working on one time, you can go you can go on the defense.

如果防守不奏效，你就转向进攻。这就是我如何将你的心智能力与这些球员相提并论。所以如果迈克尔和科比那天投篮不准，那么，我还能如何影响这个行业？我还能如何影响比赛？我还能如何影响我的粉丝？

If the defense isn't working, you go on the offense. That's how I would characterize your mental ability as the same as these players. So if Michael and Kobe, they're not shooting well that day, well, how can I still have an impact on the industry? How can I still have an impact on the game? Well, how can I still have an impact on my fans?

所以你做的就是，好吧。如果我做不到这个，我还可以做那个。如果我投不进球，我还可以防守。我还可以传球。

So that's what you did is like, alright. If I can't do this, I can still do this over here. I can still do this over here. So if I if I'm not making shots, I can still play defense. I can still pass.

我还可以做这个。所以能够在所有这些不同的事情上如此多样化，这就是我如何将你的才能与我打交道的运动员相比。

I can still do this. So the being able to be so diverse in all these different things is how I would compare your talent to the athletes that I deal with.

首先，受宠若惊。谢谢

First of all, flattered. Thank

你。这是事实。

you. It's the truth.

蒂姆，让我告诉你，我只希望我爱的人能参与一部配音电影或电视节目，说实话，这是好莱坞最棒的工作。你可以穿着睡衣出现，做些滑稽的声音。节奏感超棒。

Tim, and let me tell you, I only I I only wish that someone I love and could do a voice over movie, television show, between you and I, it's the best freaking gig in Hollywood. You could show up in your pajamas. You do these silly voices. Right. Pace great.

这是躺着赚钱的好差事，宝贝。太棒了。没错。

It's mailbox money, baby. It's outstanding. Yeah.

但要拥有那种能力，你知道，我说话只有一种方式、一种语调。所以当我听到别人能演绎各种不同声音和角色时，那真是独特的天赋。即便像你说的，穿着睡衣拖鞋出现，你依然在努力。比如刷牙时对着镜子练习发声，这仍需要大量练习。

But to have the, you know, to have the I don't I talk in one way, one tone. So when I hear it when I when I'm sitting with somebody and I see the people that can do all these different voices and these different character, it's a real unique talent. Even though you show up, you know, you could show up like you said in your pajamas, in your slippers, you're still working at it. You know, you're so you you know, you're like, okay. When you're in the mirror, you're brushing your teeth, you're practicing your voices, you that that still requires a lot of work.

所以即使你没有穿着戏服出现在片场，准备工作依然相同。你仍需熟记台词，掌握音调起伏。这就像...

So just because you're not you're not physically in a, you know, outfit that's in a movie or whatever it is, the preparation still stays the same. You still have to know the words, you still have to know where the pitch is up and down. It's like it's like, you know, it's like studying a it's like

像研究战术手册。

Like a playbook.

战术手册。对，完全正确。就像我和他分析对手会怎么做、会说什么一样。

A playbook. Yeah. Exactly. It's like me and him, you know, this is what the opponent does. This is what they're gonna say.

事情是这样的。一切越顺畅，效果就越好，运作也越佳。如果你准备得更充分、更轻松，这就是为什么人们会反复找你合作的原因。要知道，没人愿意和难相处的人共事。体育和商业领域中最具才华的人，往往也是最勤奋的。

This is what what's going on. Everything has gotta it's gotta the easier it flows, the better it's going to look, the better it's going to work. And if you make it easier and prep and you're more prepared, that's why people call you back over and over again. And, you know, nobody wants no one wants to work with somebody that's difficult. And the most talented individuals in sports and business are the ones that always work the hardest.

你刚才提到科比、迈克尔或你称之为'清洁工'的那些伟大球员时说的观点很有意思。你说他们不可能时刻全能，对吧？总会有投篮失准的日子，这时他们必须专注于其他能产生影响的地方。这算不算是伟大的组成部分——明白身体终会衰退、环境总有不可控因素，并具备在这种时刻灵活调整的能力？

It's interesting what you just said about how, you know, players like Kobe and Michael or cleaners, which is your term for for greats like that, And you said, like, and I'm paraphrasing that they can't be all things all the time. Right? That inevitably, there will be days when perhaps that their shot is off, and so they have to focus on these other places where they can be impactful. Right. Is that a part of being great, is understanding that inevitably your body's gonna break down, the environment, that there are gonna be some factors that are just out of your control, and your ability in which to pivot in moments like that?

百分百同意。听着，运动员能长期保持高水准的原因是什么？无论你是谁，时间老人从未败北。从运动能力来看，你终将...

Oh, 100%. Listen. One of the things why how can an athlete play for a very long time and play at a very high level? You know, no matter who you are, father time is undefeated. From an athletic standpoint, you're going to loot.

你会逐渐变慢。这是身体的自然规律，懂吗？遗传因素影响很大，随着年龄增长，各种机能变化都会发生。具体细节我就不赘述了。

You're gonna just become slower. That's just the way the body is. Alright? And it's genetics has a lot to do with it just with the way age sets in and the different things that that happen in there. I'm not gonna get into all the different signs.

所以我们采取的策略是：当球员进入三十多岁后，我们会想——身体虽会迟缓，但能否加速思维？让我们预判更快些？年轻时我们能看到一步之后的局面，现在能否预见两三步？这样就用脑力补偿了体力的流失。

So what we would do is as a player got into their thirties, middle thirties, and so forth, we're like, okay, the body's gonna slow down, but can we speed up the mind so we see things a little bit faster? We can react a little bit things. So so instead of seeing in the earlier time in the career, we used to see one play ahead. Now as we get older, can we see two and three things ahead? So what we're losing physically, we're we're we're making up mentally.

我们通过研究对手的惯用套路，在动作发生前就能预判。与其比拼体能，不如智取。像汤姆·布雷迪、费德勒这些长青选手，他们明白体力会衰退，就用更刻苦的研究来获得心理优势，通过洞悉对手弱点来制胜。

So we're mentally we're mentally being able to see the play happen before it's gonna happen. We've studied the tendencies of the different the different athletes that we have to play again so we can use that against them. So instead of out instead of trying to out athletic them, we can outsmart them, we can out think them, we know what their weakness is, and so forth. So that's that's how these guys that's how a guy like a Tom Brady, you know, Roger Federer, these people that have played for and have had success for, you know, for years and years to do, they know they're gonna lose something physically, but they gain it from a mental standpoint, from the mental from the mental edge. They study a little harder.

他们掌握对手的习性，清楚其短板。只要保持心理战优势——因为对手可能在体能上更强——最终对方会被拖垮。想想看，我们去健身房锻炼时都懂这个道理。

They understand their opponent's tendencies. They understand their weaknesses, And they know that if mentally, if they can stay in the game, if they can stay in the game and they know they're more stronger up here than their opponent is because their opponent is probably going be stronger physically than they are. They're eventually gonna wear down. Just think about it. It you know, we all go to the gym and we work out.

好的。什么啊。顺便说一句，你看上去很棒。非常感谢。我很想知道你的养生之道。

Alright. What Yeah. You look great, by the way. Thank you very much. I'd love to know your regimen.

你可以

You can

在我们结束前再详细说说。抱歉。

go over that before we're done. Sorry.

所以，你知道，当你在健身房放弃做某事时，那是什么？大部分原因都在这里。你知道，当你说，比如，我没有多做一次重复动作，或者我本可以在跑步机上多坚持一会儿，椭圆机，不管是什么。你会在身体放弃之前先在心理上放弃。

So, you know, when you quit at something in the gym, what is it? Most of it's up in here. You know, when you say, like, I didn't do an extra rep or I could've stayed on the treadmill a little longer, elliptical, whatever it is. You let you'll let you'll give up mentally before you'll give up physically.

所以，你知道，我我听过你谈论这个。迈克尔·乔丹是你开始合作时的第一批人之一，当你

So, you know, I I've heard you talk about this. Michael Jordan was one of the first people you started working with when you

信不信由你，他是我的第一个职业客户。

He was my first professional client, believe it or not.

那么好吧。我们一步一步来。嗯。你接到电话。你会想，我到底要跟迈克尔·乔丹说什么？

So okay. I let's let's go beat by beat. Mhmm. You get the call. Do you go, what the hell am I gonna tell Michael Jordan?

看吧，其实不是看的问题，事情是这样的。我当初不知道那是迈克尔。所以我做的是给NBA球队的15名球员都发了信——你知道，一支队有12名活跃球员和3名非活跃球员。

See, it wasn't see, here's the whole thing. I didn't know it was it was Michael. So what I did was I sent out all these letters to there's 15 players on an NBA team. Alright? You have 12 active and you have three three inactive.

现在规则变了。当时我寄出了14封信，唯一没收到信的就是迈克尔·乔丹。我当时想，反正他已经是顶级球员了，何必需要我的服务呢？

They changed the terms now. So I sent out 14 letters. The one player I did not send a letter to was Michael Jordan. I was like, well, you know, he's already the he's one of the top players. Why does he need my why does he need my services?

结果呢，唯一给我回应的恰恰是那个我没寄信的人。不过他不是直接联系我，而是让球队的运动训练师和队医来找我，让他们打听这封信的来龙去脉。

Alright. So I get one response back from the person I didn't send a letter to. Alright. So what it was, he didn't directly contact me. So the team athletic trainer and the team physician, he contacted them and told them, Hey, find out this is about.

信里写了什么内容？

What did the letter say?

信里就说：我刚获得运动科学硕士学位，论文研究方向是篮球运动员训练方法，包括如何预防伤病、提升运动表现等。希望能有机会为球队提供无偿服务，我确信这些基于科学验证的知识对你们会有实质帮助，并附上了具体训练方案。

The letter just said, Listen, I graduated from, know, I just finished my master's degree in exercise science. My thesis was on training basketball players and how to prevent injuries and become more athletic or so forth. I would like the opportunity to work with you guys, know, not expecting anything, not looking for any pay, just say, have some knowledge here that can really bet that could really bet that I that not that I think that I know can benefit you and I have the work I have the the science behind it to prove it. You know? So I, you know, I'd say, here's the workout.

我详细说明了训练计划及其科学依据。后来运动训练师——抱歉，是队医和训练师联系我说有球员感兴趣，但我始终不知道是谁。

This is what we would do, and here's a science to back here's a science to back it up. So what happened was the athletic I'm sorry. The athletic trainer and the team doctor contacted me, and then they said, hey. We have a player that's interested. I didn't know who it was.

我真的不知道是谁。接下来的三个月，他们每周带我进办公室三、四次，像大学答辩般拷问我：从生理学、解剖学到突发伤情处理，确保我确实精通这些知识。

I I didn't know who it was. So for three months, they literally, three, four days a week, they would bring me into the office. They would drill me on stuff to make sure I knew what I was talking about. It was like going through college all over again, You know, about the physiology, anatomy. What would you do if this injury happened?

你会如何处理这种情况？如何让球员跑得更快？如果，你知道，如果你扭伤了第五跖骨会怎样？好的，我明白了。

How would you handle this situation? How do do you make a player faster? What what what would happen if, you know, what would happen if you sprained your, you know, your fifth metatarsal? Okay. I got it.

于是我把所有答案都告诉他们，这样持续了大约三个月后，他们说，顺便说一下，现在希望你去见感兴趣的客户。他们给了我这个地址，我记得是训练结束后12点31分。我当时还是不知道具体情况，拿到地址就开车过去，敲了敲门。

So I'd give them all the answers, then that went on for about three months and they said, okay, by the way, now we want you meet the client that's interested. So they said, at this address at, I think it was 12:31 o'clock after practice. So I I just still didn't know I get the address. I drive down there. I knock on the door.

我敲了敲门。迈克尔·乔丹开的门。那是他家？确实是他家。

I knock on the door. Michael Jordan opens the door. It's his house? It's his house.

房子不错。

Nice house.

要知道，那时候这还算是个明显线索。不过不，不是的。但那时候，你可以直接走进去——那是栋不错的房子，但还没到...嗯。

Well, see, now back then Bit of a giveaway. Yeah. But no. No. But see, back then, this is where you could just walk on the it was a it was a nice house, but it wasn't Yeah.

好吧，这么说吧。那是栋住宅，算不上庄园。公平吧。

Okay. So let's put it this way. It was a house. It wasn't an estate. Fair.

公平。好吧。没有大型喷泉。对，对。

Fair. Alright. No major fountain. Right. Right.

我明白了。

I get it.

没有围栏，什么都没有。所以你直接走过去敲门。那是在89年。那时候，记得吗，迈克尔还在打球，在他签下那份你知道的，两年超过3000万美元的合同之前，他一年最多赚400万美元。

No fence. No nothing. So you just you just go in there and knock on the door. Now this was in '89. And back then, remember, when Michael was playing, before he signed his mat you know, his thirty his two years deals that were over $30,000,000 a year, The most he was making a year was $4,000,000.

嗯。这是他职业生涯的初期。那时候他可能一年赚一百多万，最多一百五十万。所以不是什么特别豪华的地方。然后他开了门。

Mhmm. So this was in the beginning of his career. So he was probably during that time making maybe a little over a million, million and a half. So it wasn't like this big big big elaborate thing. So he opens the door.

我不是那种追星的人，从来都不是。好吧，这就是迈克尔。我准备好了。

I'm not a starstruck person. I've never been. So, okay. This is Michael. I'm ready.

不管是谁，我都做了功课，研究了球队所有15名球员。所以不管是谁，我都知道他们的习惯，了解他们从高中开始的所有伤病情况。

It didn't matter who the I had I had done my homework on all 15 players on the team. So no matter who it was, I knew I knew their tendencies. I knew their injuries going all the way back to, you know, high school.

当然。是啊。你并没有因为不是斯科蒂·皮蓬而失望吧。不，完全没有。

Sure. Yeah. Well You weren't bummed it wasn't Scottie Fippi. No. Exactly.

你想要

You want

你想要迈基。你说得对。于是我和他坐下来谈。我们看了资料，聊了大概半小时到四十五分钟，过了一遍所有细节，你知道的，我的背景、我能做什么。这些都是不同的问题。

you want Mikey. You're right. So then I sat down with him. We saw it, talked for about maybe about a half hour, forty five minutes, went through everything, you know, my background, what I can do. These were different issues.

然后他说，这听起来太完美了。我说，给我三十天时间。我说，给我三十天。结果三十天变成了十五年。竞争就是这么激烈。

And he goes, this sounds too good. I said, give me thirty days. I said, give me thirty days. Thirty days turned into fifteen years. And this is how competitive was.

那天下午我在那儿，我问，你想什么时候开始？他说，明天。所以我那天晚上真的得在他地下室搞出个健身房来。你能怎么办？好吧，幸运的是，我在那方面有些人脉。

So I was there on an after I was there on an afternoon, and I said, when do you wanna start? He goes, tomorrow. So I literally had to equip his basement with a with a gym that night. What do you do? Well, you know, unfortunate fortunate enough, I have I had enough contacts in there.

于是我打电话给一些人说，嘿。我需要这么做。我需要这些东西。他们问，什么时候要？我说，今晚必须送到。

I So was able to call some people and say, hey. This is what I need to do. This is what I need. They said, when do need it? I said, it's gotta be delivered tonight.

对，就今晚。然后我告诉迈克尔，嘿。听着。他们那天晚上好像有客场比赛还是什么。

Yeah. Tonight. So, you know, I told him and Michael said, hey. Listen. I think they had a they had a road game or something that that evening.

我说，嘿。他回答，嗯。会有人给你开门的。所以那天晚上，我和其他人真的在他家安装设备。这样他第二天回来时，

I said, hey. He goes, yeah. That you know, somebody let you in the house. So literally that night, myself and other people were fixing up the equipment in his house. So when he came back the next day,

健身房什么的都准备好了。你知道，他以对自己事业和形象毫不妥协的严肃著称。有人可能觉得他有时不太随和。那时候他就是那样吗？那种态度会让你感到压力吗？

the gym and everything everything was set up. And, you know, he's sort of known for being unapologetically serious about what he does and his persona. Some might say not super affable in moments. Were you in was he that way then, and was that intimidating?

这并不令人畏惧，因为我也是一样的人。你知道，我有个说法，人们总说要找个能与你互补的人，阴阳调和，完全相反的类型。但我走的是另一条路。

It wasn't intimidating because I'm the I'm the same way. You know, I it it was like, I have a saying that, you know, everyone tries to say, well, find somebody to balance you out. You know, the yin and the yang. The complete opposite. I I go a different direction.

我说要找就找个和你一样疯狂的人，因为你们的渴望、目标、野心全都一致。我知道他追求进步的心态，他想变得最好，想多次夺冠，而我也如此。每当我接手一个客户，我会倾注全部心血，他们的成功就是我的成功，他们的失败也是我的失败。

I say find somebody who's just as effed up as you are, who is just as crazy as you are because you know your desire, your goals, your ambitions, everything is everything is the same, you know. I knew his mentality of how he wanted to get how he wanted to get better, how he wanted to be the best, you know, how he wanted multiple champion, how he wanted multiple championships and and I felt the same way whenever I have a client, you know, I put everything into that client. I want them to succeed. Their successes is my success. Their failures are my failures.

无论发生什么，我都会在场。所以我明白我和他一样疯狂。但关键在于，他对自己的责任感极其强烈。有些人需要别人督促，而他为自己渴望的程度甚至超过了我对他的期望。

No matter what happens, I'm there. So I knew I was just as crazy as he was. But his the one thing, his accountability to himself was so great. You know, you have other individuals where other people's accountability and they want it more than you do. He wanted it as much as I wanted it for him, he wanted it even more for himself.

当你看到这类人时——比如我听你在另一个播客里提到的汤姆·布雷迪，他在最近超级碗前说无论输赢下赛季都会回来——即便已是公认最伟大的四分卫。这种特质是天生的吗？是那种即使远超所有既定目标仍要继续证明自己的需求吗？

And where do you think when you see guys like that or I heard you on another podcast talking about like Tom Brady who said after the or I'm sorry, before the recent Super Bowl, like, win or lose, I'll be back next season. Yeah. After being arguably the greatest quarterback and already solidified. Is are you born with that? Is it that need to continue to produce even far surpassing sort of you've you've accomplished every goal?

你已登顶过巅峰，这种动力源自何处？

You've been to the mountaintop. What's that born out of?

这个嘛，我认为它是可以被培养的。

You know, I don't it's well, it's born out it's something that can be taught.

是因为严厉的父亲吗？

Is it mean dads?

你知道吗？不，我不会。这不是说爸爸们不好。所以这就是为什么我总说，每个人的生命中都会发生一些事，引导他们走向某个方向。

You you know? No. I won't no. It's not mean dads. So this is why I think it's I always say there's something that's happened to everybody in their life that allows them to go in a certain direction.

明白吗？你可以回顾那段经历，而你如何应对那种情况，基本上决定了当逆境来临时你会走向哪条路。拿汤姆·布雷迪举例，可能记不太准，但我记得他在选秀中是第199顺位被选中的。

Alright? You can go back there, and how you handle that situation is going to kinda pretty much determine which way you're gonna go in adverse when adversity hits. Now, you know, you take Tom Brady as an as an example. Might be off on this, but I think he was the hundred and ninety ninth player picked in the draft.

你看到他40码冲刺的成绩了吗？大概六秒左右。是啊，我都能跑那么快。

Did you see his 40? It was like six seconds. Yeah. So I can run that.

没错。他一直记得这件事。大学时他起初不是首发，后来终于得到机会。以第199顺位被选中后，当他获得机会时，他绝不会再让出那个位置。

Right. So and he's always remembered that. He's always he's always you know, when he went to college, he wasn't the starter, then he finally got a chance to start. He was drafted a 199. And he and when he got his when he got his opportunity, he was never going he was never gonna give that back.

有些人呢，当不被球队重用或处境不顺时，就怪教练、怪体系。但他全盘接受，承担所有责任。

So some individuals, you know, when they're not playing for a team or things aren't going well, oh, it's the coach's fault. I'm in the wrong system. I'm in this. He owned it all. He owned it all.

这类人会把挫折当作燃料。他们不需要外界认可，因为自我施加的压力远大于任何人。我举个典型例子，甚至不用和你讨论，我就知道绝对正确——

And what he did was those individuals, they use that stuff to keep their fire lit. That's what keeps them going. They don't need validation from other people because the pressure they put on themselves, it's so much greater than anybody else. I'll give you I'll give you a great example, and you could tie and I without even having to discuss this with you, I know I'm right on this. Alright?

比如给电影配音时，制作人或导演说'太棒了'，你却觉得'不，我自己听着不行，得重来'。

When you do a voice over for a movie or whatever it is, And whoever the producer, whoever the director is hearing it, and they're like, oh, that sounds awesome. You go like, no. It didn't sound well to me. I need to do it again.

确实如此。是的。确实如此。

It's true. Yeah. It's true.

是啊。你会觉得，我我需要逼自己一把。对。我必须我必须再来一次。

Yeah. You're like, I I need I push myself. Yeah. I need I need to do it again.

不。毫无疑问。

No. For for sure.

没错。即便别人都说，哦，没人会注意到那个。但你却注意到了。

Yeah. You're just like, even though you're like, somebody else is oh, nobody else is ever gonna pick that up. You picked it up.

是的。这就像一种自我约束，对吧。你明白的，我是自己不当行为的见证者。所以当我感觉没达到某个目标或辜负了期望时，我就会痛苦。别人怎么想根本不重要。

Yeah. There's like a self governance going on and yeah. You can't get you know, I'm the witness to my bad behavior. So when I don't feel like I've achieved a certain goal or or lived up to an expectation, I suffer. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

两年前，爱国者队打进超级碗，汤姆·布雷迪那次接球脱手还记得吗？他们执行了那个战术。我不记得是第几节了，传球给他时他失手了。那是他唯一记得的事。而那场比赛，他创下了超级碗单场传球码数纪录。

Two years ago, when the Patriots were in the Super Bowl and Tom Brady dropped that, Remember? They did they ran that play. I don't know if it's been what quarter they threw him the ball and he dropped it. That's all he could remember. He and in that game, he set the record for most yards in a Super Bowl.

我记得是500多码。但他只记得那次接球失误。他掉了那个球。他掉了那个球。他掉了那个球。好吧。

It was I think it was 500 and something. All he could remember was he dropped that pass. He dropped that pass. He dropped that pass. Alright.

即便其他人都觉得，哦，你知道，那不重要。但正是这种想法萦绕在心头。所以当你撕开那件不正确的事时，你对自己的责任感是如此强烈。无需他人提醒，真的无需他人多言。

Even everybody else was like, oh, you know, it didn't matter. That's what sits in mind. So when you tear that one thing that isn't right, your accountability to yourself is so high. No one else has to tell you. No one else has to tell you.

如今，你会发现人们让事情太轻易地溜走。他们不在意，不关注细节。他们说，哦，别为小事烦恼。但如果你想成功，想成为精英，想成为那样的人，你就必须对每件事都斤斤计较。

Nowadays, it's you get people that things slide too easily. They don't pay it. They don't pay attention to the detail. You know, they say, oh, don't sweat the small stuff. If you wanna be successful, if you wanna be elite, if you wanna be that individual, you have to sweat everything.

你必须对每一个微小细节都全力以赴。

You have to sweat every little detail.

你认为——我绝无贬低汤姆·布雷迪之意，因为天知道汤米根本不会在意乔什·佩克。但在这种团队运动的领域里，场上有另外10名队友，还有比尔·贝利奇克与汤姆·布雷迪这段美妙的合作。如果没有那些外部因素让他在这个体系中真正发光发热，他还能成为今天的汤姆·布雷迪吗？缺少这些，他还会是同样的球员吗？

Do you think that and I don't mean to diminish Tom Brady in any way because, you know, god knows Tommy ain't worried about Josh Peck. Right. But, you know, again, in in the area of of playing team sports like this, and you've got 10 other guys on the field, you've got this beautiful marriage of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. Does he become Tom Brady without those outside forces that sort of allowed him to truly shine in that system? Is he the same player without that?

听着，我认为这类人无论放在哪里都会成功。很多人拥有这样的支持系统，只是没能正确运用。很多时候，嫉妒和自负会成为阻碍。

You know, I listen. I think he would I think those individuals, no matter where you put them, they're always going they're always going to succeed. Now a lot of individuals have those support system. They just don't use them correctly. You know, it's a lot of times, you know, jealousy and ego gets gets in the way.

你总会注意到这些人的共同点——科比·布莱恩特、塞雷娜·威廉姆斯、韦恩·格雷茨基、汤姆·布雷迪——他们最先感谢的永远是他人。从不自我标榜。回顾迈克尔·乔丹的名人堂演讲，他开口第一句话就是：没有斯科蒂·皮蓬，我永远拿不到六个总冠军。第一句话。而那个时刻本属于他。

The one thing you've always noticed about these individuals, you know, Kobe Bryant, you know, Serena Williams, Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, the first people they give accolades to is always others. It's all it's never about themselves. If you go back and look at Michael Jordan's, hall of fame speech, the first thing he said when he got first thing, he said, I would have never won the six championships without Scottie Pippen. First thing. And the and the the moment was about him.

所以这些顶尖者深知，那些人在指引方向、提供帮助、传授经验上的重要性。他们从不吝啬赞美，因为这份赞美终将回馈自身。有句老话我常说：当你优秀时，你自己宣扬；当你卓越时，世人自会传颂。明白吗？

So these individuals understand how important those people are in keeping them in the right direction, helping them, educate them, and they're not willing to they're not they have no problem giving praises to those individuals because those individuals will give praise back to you. There's a saying that says, you know, I use this all the time. When you're good, you tell everybody else. But when you're great, they tell you. You know?

这就是伟人的行事方式。所有人都知道这些人物有多伟大。大家都知道比尔·贝利奇克作为教练有多出色。每个人都知道汤姆·布雷迪有多么优秀和伟大。而如果你观察他的接球手们，那些伟大球员的做法是，他们会把人放在能够成功的位置上。

And that's what the greats do. Everybody else knows how great these individuals are. Everybody knows how great Bill Belichick is as a coach. Everybody knows to how good to how good and great Tom Brady is. And if you look at his receivers, the greats, what they do is they put people in situations to succeed.

你看，当你有这样一位出色的教练时。普通教练总是盯着球员做不到的事情。他们会说这个球员不能做这个，不能做那个。而卓越的教练则会说，是的，但他们能做这个。

You know, everyone what you have a an excellent coach like that. Coaches always look at, well, this player can't do this. They can't do this. The exceptional coaches say, yeah. But this is what they can do.

别告诉我他们不能做什么。告诉我他们能做什么。而汤姆·布雷迪的厉害之处就在于，他让队友做某些事情变得异常简单。比如，他传给接球手的大部分传球——就像打橄榄球时，接球手会说的那样：听着。

Don't tell me what they can't do. Tell me what they can do. And that's and what happens with Tom Brady is he makes it so easy for his teammates to do certain things. Like, he'll the receivers most most of the passes he throws. Like, you know, people that when you're playing football, receiver will say, listen.

我会把球传到这个位置。这就是你需要接球的地方。汤姆·布雷迪能做到这一点。他会说：听着，我会把球传到这两根手指的位置。

This is where I'm gonna hit you. This is where you need it. Tom Brady's makes it. He goes, listen. I'm throwing it to these two fingers.

他不是随便传的——我不会把球传到你掌心，也不会传到别处。球只会落在这个位置。你只有一个任务：接住球。就这么简单。

He's not you know, I'm not throwing it to your palm. I'm not throwing it this is where it's going. You have one job. Catch the ball. Dang.

这就是我说的全部。你只需要做到这一点。其他的事情都交给我。我会安排好一切。你只需要跑出去，跑个十码。

That's all I said. That's all you have to do. I I I will do everything else for you. I will make it you go out. You run you run 10 yards.

然后向左转。当你迈出两步时，举起双手，球就会传到你的手里。明白吗？你要做的只是接住它。

You break left. When you take two steps, put your hands up, the ball is gonna hit you. Right? All you gotta do is catch it.

你知道我在电影里演过四分卫吗？你知道吗？我不得不参加两周的橄榄球训练营。嗯哼。我站错了位置。

Do you know I played a quarterback in a movie? Did you? I had to do two weeks of of of football camp. Uh-huh. I lined up behind the wrong guy.

我没有站在中锋后面。我站错了两个位置，偏了两名球员。非常尴尬。导演就在旁边看着。情况不妙，蒂姆。

I didn't line up behind the center. I lined up like two alignment, two guys over. It was very embarrassing. The director was watching. It wasn't great, Tim.

我对此并不感到自豪。

I'm not proud of it.

是啊。不过没关系。你可以一笑置之，但电影本身怎么样？

Yeah. But see, that's okay. You can laugh about it, but how was the movie?

电影不怎么样。

Movie's not great.

好吧。听着，我们都经历过。我们都有过...我们都遇到过这种事。但关键就在这里。

Alright. So listen. We've all had it. We've all we've had other we've all had it happen. But that's the thing.

当你能笑着面对，能拿它开玩笑，把它当作学习经验时——你知道有句老话说得好：如果你能自嘲，能与人同乐，不过分较真，这才算真正从中吸取了教训。如果你不断反复苛责自己，这种情绪就会延续到其他事情上。

The p when you can laugh at it and you can joke about it and you use it as a learning experience, you know, there's some common things to say, listen, if you can laugh at yourself and you laugh at laugh with others and you don't take it so seriously, that's when it becomes a learning process. If you constantly beat yourself up over and over and over again, then it's gonna carry on then it's gonna carry on to something else.

我之所以对此感兴趣，是因为我想象运动员们会分享这种特质——我有幸接触过一些极其成功且知名的人物。确实如此。他们是种有趣的生物，或许这只是我的主观投射，但他们确实与我们不同。他们很特别。我觉得你必须小心应对这种能量，因为它会改变一切。

Is it I'm interested to hear this because I would imagine athletes share this with, I've been privy to being around, like, some really successful famous people. Sure. And they're interesting animals in that this might be me projecting, but they're different than us. They're specific. And I feel like you have to be careful in that energy because it's it changes.

确实如此。

It does.

那种程度的专注力，你得非常警惕。你无法像对待普通人那样获得同等的互动空间

That level of dedication, you know, you've gotta be very wary of it. You're not afforded the same sort of give and take that you would with just a normal

没错，确实是这样。

It's true. Yeah.

那么在这个过程中，你是否曾有过这样的时刻：主动退居幕后，让某位运动员拥有他们的高光时刻？当时你是...

So how, were there moments in that for you where you kinda said, let me sort of fall back into the periphery here and let, you know, this particular athlete have their moment? What was your

其实我一直都保持低调。这正是我成功的原因之一——明白这是属于他们的舞台。我参与他们的成功，也见证他们的失败。聚光灯应该属于他们。

Well, the ones that I've I've always stayed in the background. That's one of the reasons I've been so successful is like, listen. This is their I'm a part of their success. I'm part of their failures. I they're the ones that that are to shine.

他们表现得越好，我就越有光彩。我不需要站到镜头前。有些荣誉、活动、派对或颁奖典礼，我深知自己不该参与其中。你懂我的意思吧。

The better they do, the better I look. I don't need to be in I don't need to be in front of the camera. You know, I knew certain accolades, certain events, certain parties, you know, certain award ceremonies, I would not be a part of. You know? Yeah.

就像你明白的那样。懂吗？无欲则刚。所以当你必须参加那些场合时，你会觉得‘哦，太好了’，但这从来不是理所当然的。

It's like you you but you know that. You know? He who expects nothing will never be disappointed. So when you got to go to those things, you're like, oh, great. But it was never presumed.

从来没有人假定你有资格参与那些事。你必须清楚自己为何而做。现在太多人，尤其在我的行业里，总想着接受采访、独占功劳、站在聚光灯下——但在这个社交媒体时代，这种心态注定走不长远。

It was never assumed that you get to go to those things. You have to understand what you're doing for. There's too many times people now, especially in my business, they wanna do the interviews. They wanna take all the credit. They wanna be out in the they wanna be on the forefront, and you're never gonna last that long with the with the, you know, with the way social media is.

永远把客户的成就放在首位。让他们发光。获得认可的最佳方式，是让客户主动为你发声。我很幸运，能得到顶级客户的书面和口头推荐。

Keep your clients keep your clients success first. Let them shine. The best way you can get acknowledged is to have the clients say something about you. You know? I've had I've been blessed enough to, you know, to have testimonials both written and verbal by my highest my highest end clients.

这才是最重要的。当最重要的人注意到时，你就知道自己做对了。

That's that's the biggest thing that you can do. Then you know you're doing then you know then you know you're doing your job because a person that matters the most noticed.

遭遇惨败后——强如乔丹、科比也难免——你什么时候跟进？当晚？还是等一天？不。

Now after a a crushing loss for you know, they've even, you know, Michael Jordan, Kobe, it's just part of the game. When do you check-in with them? That night? Do you wait a day? No.

不。

No.

立刻行动。立刻。我会倾听。我们总是最后离开更衣室的人。

Run. Right away. Right away. Like, I listen. I would there we would always be the last ones to leave the locker room.

你知道吗？科比·布莱恩特总是最后一个离开的——我是说，斯台普斯中心的所有保安通常都走了。明白吗？而他还在那里。那就是属于他的时刻。

You know? Kobe Bryant was the last one to always leave the I mean, the the the whole security from the Staples Center used to be gone. Alright? And he would still be in there. He just that's his moment.

你就让他一个人待着。你在外面等着就行。然后当他出来时，如果他想和你讨论什么，那就是——你别主动对他说话。迈克尔（乔丹）每场比赛后，我都会说五、六或七。懂吧。

You just leave him alone. You just wait outside. Then when he come when he comes out, he may if he wants to discuss something with you, that that's what it you don't say you don't say anything to him. Michael, after every single game, I would either say five, six, or seven. Okay.

意思是，我会在早上5点、6点或7点训练，有时我什么都不说。而迈克尔在上车前，会转身看我，比出五、这个或这个手势。这样我就知道第二天是5点、6点还是7点去他家。你有没有

Meaning, I'll be working out at 5AM, 6AM, or 7AM, or sometimes I wouldn't say anything. And Michael, right before he'd get into his car, he would turn around and look at me and either do five, this, or this. So I knew if I had the next day, was either at the at his house at 5AM, 6AM, or 7AM. Did you

说过，迈克，也许十点？没。那有点早。确实有点早。

ever say, Mike, maybe ten. No. It's a little early. It's a little early.

懂我意思吧？对。但这就是他的习惯。当然。那就是他的——那就是他的日常。

You know? Yeah. But that it's his routine. Sure. That was his that was that was his routine.

你看，他必须保持这种习惯，因为在心里他会想——就像你之前说的，他们的思维方式不同，竞争心太强，觉得少练一天别人就会赶超。就像：好吧，如果今天不练，如果明天不练，那某某练了吗？没有。

You know, he had to stay he had to stay stay on the routine because and in his mind, he's like, if I'm not put and this is what you said earlier about the conversation being a little different and, you know, the way they think, they're so competitive that if they they feel like if they miss a day that somebody else is gaining on them. Like, okay. Now alright. If I don't work out today if I if I don't work out tomorrow, well, so and so did they work out? No.

所以这就是...没错。

So it's one of the Yeah.

他们快追上我了。是的。

They're gaining on me. Yes.

所以那就是那就是刀刃。他们就是这样保持短剑锋利。他们就是这样保持刀刃锋利。是不是

So that that that's that's the that's the edge. That's how they keep their short sword sharp. That's how they keep that edge going. Is there

你心里是否有一部分，就像你说的，像这样的人对自己要求如此之高，如此有动力，你心里是否有时会觉得必须

a part of you that when you know, to your point, like, guys like this that hold themselves to such a high standard and are so driven, is there a part of you that sometimes feels like you have to

我已经知道你要问什么问题了。

I already know the question you're about to ask.

去安慰他们？比如，成为支持者而不是成为锤子。嗯。你知道吗？因为我觉得我们从小看体育电影，以为就是那种严厉的教练类型，一直在强调重点。

To reassure them? Like, be the support instead of, like, being being the the hammer. Mhmm. You know? Because I think that we grow up watching sports movies, and we think it's just, like, the the tough coach type who's, like, really hammering in the point.

但对于这种对自己要求如此之高的人，你是否觉得也许我只需要告诉他们他们是最棒的？这是否有安慰的成分？你是否会采取不同的角度，而不是

But like with guys at this level who like hold themselves to such a high standard, do you like, maybe I just need to like tell them that like they're the best? Is there a reassurance part of it? Do you take a different angle instead of being

个人的性格。你知道，这很有趣。有些人会被严厉的声音激励，有些人则会被拍拍背激励。你永远不能把这两种人搞混，因为如果一个人只被严厉的信息激励，而你拍拍他的背，他会觉得你突然对我心软了。

personality of the individual. You know, it's funny. It's individuals that some are motivated by, you know, a stern voice and others are motivated by a pat on the back. You can never get those two confused because if you have an individual that's all that's motivated by a stern message and you pat them on the back, they're like, you just got soft on me all of

突然。对。

a sudden. Right.

你知道吗？然后还有另一类人，他们需要的是正向肯定，如果你对他们咄咄逼人，就会彻底失去他们。所以你得观察，得了解他们的成长背景，看他们如何与他人相处，才能知道该怎么引导。但那些极度好胜的家伙，你其实什么都不用说——他们对自己已经够苛刻够挑剔了，根本不需要额外的鞭策。

You know? And then you have the other individuals that, you know, need the positive reinsurance and if you get in their face, you totally lose them. So you gotta kinda watch, you gotta understand their upbringing, you gotta see how how they work around other individuals to know which which way goes what. But those guys are really competitive ones. You really don't have to say anything to them because they're so hard on those they're so hard and critical on themselves that you don't they don't need any extra they don't need any extra reinsurance.

他们什么都不缺。真正需要的是——这也是我工作的重要部分——有人告诉他们何时该适可而止。就是得有人说：听着。

They don't need anything. What they do need is sometimes and this is a big part of my job, is to tell them when enough is enough. You know, that that that's when it is. You know, it's just like, hey. Listen.

好了，战术手册我们都翻烂了。到此为止。你们已经...我们已经做了足够多的训练，投了足够多的球。你得...得拦住他们别钻牛角尖，因为他们会不停加练。

Alright. We've read the playbook enough. That that's it. The you've already you've we've done enough work on enough shots. You got you got you gotta you gotta gotta keep them away from themselves because they'll keep going.

他们会一直练下去。就是不懂得停。对。他们就是不明白。就是不停地逼自己，逼自己，这时候必须有人站出来说：喂。

They'll keep they'll keep going. They just don't Overtrain. Yeah. They just don't know. They just it it's just constant push, push, push, and then somebody's gotta tell them, hey.

而且这些人很多都带着恐惧滤镜。懂吧？没人敢对他们说半个不字。必须得有个人站出来说：嘿。哦。他们当下可能会恨你，但心底是尊重的，因为你和那些唯唯诺诺的人不一样。总得有人敢说：要么到此为止，要么你这里做错了，要么你本该这样处理。

And they're and a lot of these individuals, there's a fear factor with them. You know, people don't wanna tell them anything, and you you have to have somebody has to be like, hey. Oh. And they they were they may hate you for it in the moment, but they they under they respect you because you're not like everybody else. Somebody's willing to step up and say, either you've this is enough or you you know, you did this wrong or you shoulda handled the situation this way.

其实他们心里早就有数。早知道了。有时候你话还没说完，他们就会说：我已经处理好了。

And they already know it though. They already know it. You know, so sometimes before you even get that message out, they always say, I took care of it.

这很有趣。你有没有和这样的球员合作过，或者观察过这类球员？因为听着，作为一个运动员，你必须快速经历成长过程。前几天我刚看了NBA选秀，我就想，这些孩子看起来像婴儿一样。

It's interesting. Have you ever worked with players or watched guys like this? Because listen, the the gestation process, the the level at which you have to gain as an athlete is quick. And I I was just watching the NBA draft the other day, and I'm like, these kids look like babies.

他们本来就是孩子。

They are babies.

他们大概18岁，或者19、20岁。这很有趣。有一次我看到华盛顿首都队的亚历山大·奥维契金在幕后花絮里，他可以说是NHL最伟大的球员之一。但在业余时间，他却在打电子游戏，吃妈妈做的饭。是啊。

They're like 18 years old, and or or, you know, 19, 20. It was funny. I was watching Alexander Ovechkin from the Washington Capitals once on, like, a behind the ice type shit, and he's literally arguably one of the greatest players in the NHL. And in his off time, he was playing video games and eating his mom's cooking. Yeah.

我当时就想，你简直像11岁一样。你有没有过这样的时刻，看到世界上最伟大的运动员在玩四子棋，我就觉得……

And I was like, you're, like, 11. Yeah. Were there moments like that too where you were like, this is the greatest athlete in the world, and he's, like, playing connect four. I'm like

是啊，这很难说。你知道吗？时代变了，变化太大了。

Yeah. It's it's hard. You know what? It's the generation has changed so it's it's changed so much. You know?

我那些现在已经退役的运动员，比如德维恩、科比和迈克尔，我和他们的年龄差距不大。迈克尔大概比我大一两岁，科比可能比我小十岁，德维恩他们差不多。所以我们还能有些共同话题。

The thing with my, you know, my athletes that are are retired now, you know, the Dwayne's, the Koby's, and the Michael, I was closer to age than they were. Know, Michael and I Michael's a couple of maybe a year older, a year and a half older than I am. Kobe's, you know, maybe ten years younger, and Dwayne, they're kinda the same. So we kinda relate a little bit of the things. Alright.

但现在这些年轻孩子，我就觉得，你在开玩笑吧？我有个女儿，和你差不多大。所以真的很难理解，尽管我们以前旅行时也会带上一堆东西，球衣、运动鞋、西装和衣服。

With these young kids now, it's just like, I'm like, you gotta be kidding. I have a daughter. I have a daughter your age. Right. So it's kind of like hard to understand, you know, even though when we used to travel, you know, you would travel with everything, your, you know, your your jerseys, your gym shoes, your suits, and your clothes.

好吧，那时候每个球员行李里必备的就是Xbox游戏机。对，没错。那是他们进房间后第一件连接的东西，他们会互相较量。所以对我来说，有点难以理解这种情况。

Okay. It was a time where the one thing that every every player had packed was their Xbox. Right. Yeah. That was and that was the first thing they would connect when they got into the room and they, you know, they'd be playing each other and so so I was just like, it's kind of it's kinda hard for us to to kinda understand what's going on.

你知道RJ·巴雷特吗？就是刚被尼克斯选中的那个。前几天我刚看他的视频，画面里他走进麦迪逊广场花园，灯光闪烁，各种特效。我当时就想，这孩子才18、19岁，不该承受这些。

You know, the RJ, I think it's RJ Barrett who just got drafted by the Knicks. I was just watching a video on him the other day and they just showed him walking into the Madison Square Garden. You know, they got the lights flashing and all the other stuff. I was and to me, I was like, this kid's 18, 19 years old. That's that's not what you should be doing.

这实在...这实在太过分了。对一个孩子来说，太早踏入他们所谓的篮球圣地，突然被聚光灯包围，仿佛在说'你就是这支球队的救世主'。

That's not that's just that's too it's too much too soon for that kid to to walk in what they call the mecca of basketball and all of a sudden have all these, you know, these lights flashing like, hey. You're the savior of the you're the savior of the of this team.

上帝知道尼克斯队确实需要救世主。

God knows the Knicks need it.

他们确实需要，但我说这会给年轻人施加更大压力。不过话说回来，现在孩子们已经习惯这些了——从AU联赛到高中时期，他们早就适应了这种氛围。高中时就有五十万粉丝，整天晒生活。所以球队也顺应潮流，不得不搞这些噱头。

They need they do need it, but I'm saying that's even more that's even more pressure on trying to put on a trying to put on a trying to put on a kid. I just you know, and I under but see, now the other way is that's what the kids are used to because from the AU, from the high schools, they're used to all this stuff. They're used to seeing, you know, the they're used to having, you know, half a million followers in high school. They're used to port their stuff all the time. So, that's that's kind of where the teams have seen things and they gotta they gotta lead to, you know, or they they put up.

现在洛杉矶已经立起两块科怀·伦纳德的广告牌。应该是快船队干的，想通过这种招募手段吸引他加盟。

We're in LA now. There's two billboards already up for Kawhi Leonard. Right. You know, by I think the Clippers, I don't know. I think it was a Clippers put up, you know, trying to bring trying to bring them here, the recruiting process.

在我们那个年代，根本不会搞这种阵仗。

Back in the back in the day, you know, in my generation when I that was just you just didn't do that.

你有没有对一起共事的人发过火？哦，经常这样。是啊。那是什么样子的？

Do you ever lose your temper with someone you were working with? Oh, all the time. Yeah. What does that look like?

我能在这儿骂人吗？请便。好吧。去你的。去你的。

Am I allowed to curse here? Please. Okay. Fuck you. Fuck you.

好了。我们开始吧。

Alright. Let's go.

真的吗？是啊。因为他们净胡说八道。

Really? Yeah. Because they're bullshitting.

没错。就是这样。所以，你知道，就是那样。但我们有严格的规定。你知道，我们有严格的规定。

Yeah. That's it. So, you know, it was yeah. But we had strict rules. You know, we had strict rules.

你知道，听着。我我我从来不允许用手机。明白吗？我说，听着。孩子们行吗？

You know, like, listen. There's no I I I never allowed cell phones. Alright? I said, listen. Kids okay?

是啊。家里每个人都很好，但没什么比那更重要了。对。我有个规矩，当我们锻炼、训练时，你得把手机收起来。如果你想在社交媒体上发点什么，等我们结束后再说。

Yeah. Everybody in the family's good, but nothing's that important then. Yeah. There's no I've had a rule to when we're working out, when we're training, you put your cell phone away. If you wanna post something on social media, it's after we're done.

在我们训练时没人会举着摄像机跟着你，因为你此刻并不专注。我需要你——现在就需要你全神贯注。我需要你的身体和思维都完全投入当下，每时每刻。

Nobody's following you out with a camera while we're doing because you're not in the moment. I need you I need you here now. I need I need you physically, and I need you mentally in the moment all the all the time.

不是说要...显然，你知道的，你有你的专业方式，这很特殊且应该保持模糊。但请允许我具体问一下：当你指导球员时，是否已分析过他们的比赛并制定策略？是否通过一系列特定训练来提升他们的——

And not to get like, obviously, I don't you know, you you do what you do, and it and it's very specific, and it should stay vague. But just to get granular for a second, so you speak to that, and you're working with a guy. Is it a set are you have you have you analyzed their game and come up with a strategy in which a certain amount of different drills, exercises in which to build up their

比赛水平？是的。但首要任务永远是预防伤病。我不在乎你能跳多高、得多少分、防守多出色。

game? Yes. I have. But the first thing we always concentrate on is injury prevention. I don't care how high you can jump, how many points you can score, how well you're on defense.

如果身体存在薄弱环节，就必须先解决它。最重要的就是保持你的可参赛状态。解决这个问题后，我们才会关注其他方面。我看到太多运动员因脚踝扭伤、手指伤等长期休战——这些本可预防。

If you have a weak link in that body, we need to address that. So, you know, the first thing the most important thing is your availability. Once we once we address that, then we pay attention to that, and then we pay attention to everything out or we pay attention to everything else. You know, I see athletes out for so long with sprained ankles and fingers and and those all those things are they're they're preventable. They really are.

脚踝扭伤的严重程度完全可以预防，但强化这个小关节的过程确实非常枯燥。

You know, the severity of a sprained ankle is easily preventable, but the amount of time it takes to work that little joint, it's very tedious.

天啊，我2014年扭伤的脚踝到现在走路还疼呢。真的，那该死的伤还在折磨我。

Oh my god. I'm still walking off a sprained ankle from like 2014. Yeah. I still feel that shit.

没错，这过程很磨人。但有些方法能预防这些伤病。当运动员被其他事情分心时...我说要注意细节就是这个意思。比如看到某个运动员壮硕的上肢时，你会突然发现：等等，看看他们的下肢...

Yeah. It's very tedious. So there's things that you can do to to prevent those things, And that's where if they get distracted with other things, it's nobody when I say you pay attention to the little details. You know, it's like, okay, you'll see an athlete and, you know, you'll be like, man, they got they got great arms. Look at their legs.

你从未见过他那样的人。那个篮球运动员，他的脚踝或者她的脚踝非常出色，因为从外表看不出来。旅途中的表现并不能体现这一点。

No one's ever you've never seen him. Man, that that basketball player, he's got great ankles or she's got great ankles because it doesn't show. It doesn't show on the journey.

詹姆斯·哈登？没错，漂亮的脚踝。

James Harden? Yeah. Beautiful ankles.

但这有多重要呢？对吧。你知道这有多重要吗？我是说，一个人的职业生涯中，有多少场比赛是因为你没注意那些小细节而错过的？你没在意那些小事。

But how important is that? Right. You know, how important is that? I mean, it you know, how many how many games have you missed in a person's career because you didn't pay attention to those little thing you didn't pay attention to those little things.

你有没有发现教练组里有人对你有敌意？总是这样。是的，跟我说说这个。

Will you do you ever find that someone in the coaching staff is threatened by you? All the time. Yeah. Tell me about that.

总是这样。但我从未为内部机构工作过，一直是为外部组织服务。明白吗？但我非常友善。

All the time. But all I've never worked for an organization. I've always worked for an outside organization. Alright? But I'm very cordial.

我总是会坐下来和机构的人沟通。我说，听着，我们是一条船上的。你们想看到什么？对这个运动员有什么目标？

I always tell I always sit down with the organization people. I just say, listen. We're all in this together. What what do you wanna see? What what are your goals for this athlete?

你们想要什么？我我会问，有没有特定的训练动作希望这个人加入？每支球队都有季前必须通过的测试，那些测试是什么？具体有哪些要求？

What do you want? I I said, are there certain exercise that you want him to that you want this individual to incorporate? Are there certain, you know, every team has a, you know, a test that they must pass during the preseason. What are those tests? What are the things?

所以我说，听着。我们可以一起完成这件事。我说，你不可能一直见到这个人。明白吗？因为他们会在淡季和其他时候到处旅行。

So I said, listen. We can we can do this together. I said, you're not gonna be able to see this individual all the time. Alright? Because they're traveling during the during the off season and during things.

如果你告诉我需要做什么。大多数时候，他们都能接受，因为我总是把功劳归于每个人。所以听着，这不是一个人的工作。大家，我们都在同一条船上。

If you tell me what needs to be done. And most of the time, they get they're they're okay with it because one thing I always do is I give the accolades to everybody. So listen. This is not a one person job. Everybody, we're all in this together.

你做得越多，我看起来越好；我做得越多，你看起来越好。所以我们都能从中受益，一起赢得胜利。我在这一行干了这么久，我的名声，你知道的，已经超越了我所做的任何事情。所以很多高层都会说，听着。

The the more you do, the better I look, the better the more I do, the better you look. So we all look at we all win it. We all win this together. And I've had such I've been in the business for so long and my reputation, you know, supersedes what I do and everything. So a lot of the hierarchies are like, listen.

我们没问题。但我从不在训练机构里工作。如果我在他们的训练机构里工作，那也是在没人的时候。明白吗？

We're we're okay. But I never do my work in a facility. I never do it inside a training facility. If I do it inside their training facility, it's when nobody else is there. You know?

我也从不试图招揽其他人。我从不主动说，嘿，你应该这么做。或者如果我看到其他球员在做什么，我也不会插手。我尊重其他人的工作。我只做我需要做的，然后离开。

And I never try to solicit other. I never go, hey, you should do this. Or if I see another player do something, I never go in. I respect I respect the other p other person's work. And I do I do what I need to do, and I leave.

就像我们之前谈到的，有些事情不是我该参与的。显然，球员和教练组可以在训练设施里锻炼。他们可以在那里吃饭，食物很棒。

It's, you know, it's what we talked about earlier. Certain things are just not they're not privy to me. I'm you know, obviously, the players the players and coaching staff, they can work out in the facilities. They get to eat there. The food is great.

他们可以随意使用设施。如果我在那里，我做完自己的事就走。我不会傻坐在那儿看电视。

They get to take I go if I'm in a facility, I do what I need to do and I'm out. I'm not Smart. I'm not sitting there watching TV.

不是在猫薄荷上。

Not on the catnip.

不。我进进出出，进进出出。我会

No. I'm in, and I and I'm in and I'm out and and I'm out. I'd be

在里面拿免费的运动饮料。是啊，那么多免费的东西。你懂我意思吧？

in there grabbing free Gatorades. Yeah. So much free shit. You know what I'm saying?

那里有很多免费的东西。

There is a lot of free stuff in there.

你知道，这很有趣。我娶了一个来自纽约的热血犹太人，嫁入了这个超级运动世家。我猜你可能知道，我岳父是肯·奥布莱恩。当然，他曾是喷气机队的四分卫。

You know, it's funny. I married I'm like the hot blooded Jew from New York who married into this, like, super athletic family. And I I I bet you're familiar. My father-in-law is Ken O'Brien Sure. Who was, you know, a quarterback for the Jets.

是的。现在成为这个体育家庭的一员，看着这一切真是令人着迷。对我来说，这比演员和艺术界要新鲜多了。我大胆猜测，至少这是我的假设，因为你必须在30岁之前有所成就。

Yes. And it's just fascinating watching now being part of this sports family. It's so to me refreshing compared to like actors and artistry. And I venture to guess, or at least this is my assumption, is that because you have to hit it before you're realistically 30

是啊。

Yeah.

但问题是，如果你在40岁之前表现出色，你的表演窗口期其实非常短暂。你不能到了38岁还在餐厅端盘子，心里想着‘等着吧，CSI剧组肯定会打电话找我的’。懂吗？你必须全身心投入，不能糊弄。

But like, if you're great before you're 40, like, you've got such a small window to perform that you can't be 38, you know, waiting tables being like, they're I'm telling you, CSI's gonna call. Yeah. You know? It's like you gotta you have to be that dedicated. You can't bullshit.

没错。那些糊弄的人，职业生涯都很短暂。举个例子——你显然是个体育迷——如果翻看五年前的NBA选秀名单，光是看看首轮前几顺位的球员，你就会感叹：天啊。

No. And the ones that bullshit, their their careers are short. I mean, if you look at it'll be a great example. I mean, obviously, you're a sports fan. If you look at an NBA draft from five years ago, and you just go down the first the the first picks in a in the first round, you'd be like, damn.

是啊，这家伙已经消失了。他怎么了？销声匿迹？人们会追问：到底发生了什么？

Well, yeah. He's gone. What happened to him? Gone? The the they'll be like, what what what's happened?

这些就是典型的例子。我常说，选秀日你和总裁握手的那一刻，其实是你职业生涯的最后一天。因为所有人都会想‘我终于成功了’，然后松懈下来。

And no. Those are the ones that, you know, I always say, the day you get drafted and you shake the commissioner's hand, I say, congratulations. It's the last day of your career because everybody, oh, I finally made it. I exhale. You know, I'm here.

所以他们大办庆祝派对等等。关于17岁被选中的科比有个经典故事——他是选秀班里唯一没办庆祝派对的人，后来在联盟打了整整20年。

So they throw these big parties and so forth. I got a great story about Kobe at age 17 when he got drafted. He was 17 when he when he got drafted. He played twenty twenty years in the league. He was the only guy in his draft class that did not have a draft party.

这个17岁的少年被选中后直接去训练了。而其他人都沉浸在‘我要庆祝’‘我要击掌欢呼’的氛围里。

He went and worked out at age 17. Yeah. At age 17. Everybody else, man, you know, I'm celebrating. I'm high fiving individuals either after he got drafted.

他接受完采访就直奔健身房。为什么他能打20年？为什么如此成功？这些细节就是答案。

He does interviews right to the gym. Why did he play twenty years? Why was he so successful? Those are the those are the reasons.

我听说了一个关于科比的传闻。嗯。无论输赢，他离开球馆前都会投50个罚球。一直都是这样。真的吗？

I heard I've heard a rumor about Kobe Mhmm. That win or lose, he would shoot 50 free throws before he left the gym. All the time. Really?

是的。我是说，这个

Yeah. And I I mean, this

太专注了。

So dedicated.

听着。这是他在奥运会时和老K教练的故事，当时队里有其他所有球员。你知道的，他们有勒布朗，有韦德，还有其他超级球星。老K教练把科比叫过来说，听着，我们要打的进攻战术会让你得到空位投篮机会。

So listen. It was a story with him in the Olympics when coach K was it, and, you know, they had all the other players. You know, they had LeBron, they had D Wade, they had all these other superstars. So coach K calls Kobe over and says, hey, he goes, listen. He goes, with the offense that we're gonna run, he goes, you're gonna have uncontested shots.

科比看着教练说，我打了这么多年球，从没得到过空位出手机会。教练说，不，这次你会有的。我们会这样安排战术，你一定能得到空位。

Kobe looks at coach. He goes, I've been playing I don't know how many years. He goes, I never get an open look. He goes, no. You're going to he goes, the way we're gonna do this, he goes, you're gonna get an open look.

科比就问，那我的空位会在哪里？教练说，两个底角。你会在底角获得大空位。要知道，科比整个职业生涯里，底角投篮是他最少采用的进攻选择。最少采用的。

So Kobe goes, well, where am I gonna get the open looks from? He goes, you're gonna get the open looks from both corners. He goes, you will be wide open in the corners. Now most of Kobe's career, that's the shot that he least takes. Least takes.

明白吗？这是在第一次奥运训练或会议之后。从那天起直到奥运会，科比每天都会在一个底角投进500个球——不是出手，是投进——然后转到另一个底角再投进500个。不是每天一次，不是两次，是每天三次。难以置信。

Okay? This was after the first Olympic practice or the meeting that that it was with. So every day after that, every day, alright, Leading up to the Olympics, Kobe would make 500 shot, not shoot, make 500 shots from one corner and go to the other corner and make 500 shots. Not once a day, not twice a day, three times a day. No way.

是啊。

Yeah.

不过有人帮你抢篮板时，就没那么难了，对吧？

It's not so hard when you got someone rebounding for you, though. Right?

没错。如果你看到我走进来时的样子，就会明白为什么我走路有点晃悠。

That's right. If you saw if you saw me walking in here, that's why you see me kinda wobble.

你当时在抢篮板

Were you rebounding

给他当篮板手？是其中一个篮板手。对。因为你知道，他们不想让其他人在场知道发生了什么。

for him? Was one of the rebounders. Yeah. Because, you know, he these they don't want other people in there knowing what's what's going on. Right.

而且那会是个疯狂的时段。所以这也是工作的一部分。

Well and and it would be a crazy it would be a crazy hour. So that was part of that was part of the job.

所以1500次投篮。天啊，太不可思议了。嗯。你见过这种程度的驱动力吗？有没有那么一刻，你会为球员感到一丝心疼？

So 1,500 shots. Yeah. That's unreal. Mhmm. Is there do you ever see this amount of drive and is there ever a part of you that feels a little bad for a player?

我是说，当然他们正在，你知道的

I mean, granted they're being, you know

不。因为你知道吗？如果他们不那样做，他们就会把旁边的人点着了。对吧。所以不管他们做什么，他们都全力以赴。

No. Because you know what? They they if they're not doing that, they're gonna set the person next to them on fire. Right. That this is so they're they're all they're all no matter what they do, they're all in.

我是说，你知道的，你在娱乐行业。科比，他赢得了奥斯卡。所以，他把不再打篮球的竞争精神投入到其他事情上，他们必须继续。这不会停止，只是转移到其他方面。

I mean, you know, you're in the entertainment business. Kobe, what he won an Oscar. So, you know, he takes his competitive thing from no longer playing basketball into something and they have to continue. It doesn't stop. It just fuels in something else.

压力不会消失。只是换了一种形式，他们接受它并投入到其他事情上。你知道，你从演戏转到配音，又做了YouTube，尝试了各种事情。就是那种热情，那种动力，你把它注入到其他事情中。

The pressure doesn't stop. It just takes a different form, and they take it and put it into and they put it into some and into something else. You know, you went from know, you went from act you went from act you did acting, you did voice overs, you've done YouTube, you know, you've done all this stuff. It's just it's you you take that passion, you take that that drive that comes with that passion, and you fuel it into something else. You fuel it into something else.

你把它注入到其他事情中。现在，你有最成功的播客之一，如果我没记错，上次统计有850万粉丝，在Instagram上。

You fuel it into something else. Now, you know, you have one of the most successful podcasts, if I remember right, like, last count was eight and a half million followers, if I remember or something. On Instagram. Instagram. Yeah.

是的。是的。

Yes. Yes.

是的。在Instagram上。抱歉。在Instagram上。这就是动力。

Yes. On Instagram. Excuse me. On Instagram. It it's, you know, it's just the fuel.

它只是从一件事物转移到另一件事物，再转移到其他事物，最终以不同形式呈现。你的竞争本性从未停止。人们看着你会觉得，哦，这家伙随和，你知道的，他性格温和。

It's just taken from one thing and put into something else and put into something else and put into it just takes a different form. Your competitive nature doesn't stop. And, you know, people look at you and like, oh, It's easygoing guys, you know, he's soft.

亲爱的。是啊。好吧。但这是朴实无华的本质。对吧。

Sweetheart. Yeah. Okay. But the Salt to the earth. Right.

我明白。不过

I see it. Except

眼里闪着光。

Twinkle in the eye.

没错。没错。除非当你受到挑战，或者有人激你说你做不到时，你就会说'看我的'。

Yeah. Yeah. Except when you're challenged or or the or, you know, you're like, somebody pushes you and say you can't do this or, you know, you're like, watch me.

是啊。是啊。犹太血统的坚韧心性。你生命中如此多时间都围绕着精英运动员，那些不断突破自我追求卓越成就的人。

Yeah. Yeah. Heart of a Jewish line. Yeah. What is there is it hard you spend so much of your life around elite athletes, people that are pushing themselves to these incredible levels of success.

和普通人相处对你来说困难吗？

Is it hard for you to be around normal people?

确实如此。我敢打赌。确实是这样。因为你只是不理解。你看到人们找借口或说些什么，而我只是觉得，好吧。

It is. I bet. It it is. Because you just you just don't understand it. You see people make an excuse or they'll say something, and I'm just like, okay.

这对我来说就是无法理解。我就像，我不明白。我女儿总是告诉我，她说，爸爸，你，她说，你没有怪癖。就像，你不觉得别人认为奇怪的事有什么，你就是不明白为什么？对我来说这没什么。

It just doesn't just doesn't register with me. I'm like, I I don't I don't get it. My daughter always tell me, she said, dad, you, she goes, you have no weirdo. Like, you don't what other people think is weird, you just don't you're like, why? It's it's alright with me.

你知道，我会看到一个人做一些完全出格的事。我就觉得，好吧。是的。因为要做一些特别的事，做一些非凡的事，你得有点疯狂。你必须有点与众不同。

You know, I'll see you I'll see a person, you know, do something that's just totally off the wall. I'm like, okay. Yeah. Because in order to do something special, in order to do something extraordinary, you gotta be a little crazy. You have to be a little off.

你不能像其他人那样思考。你知道，我总是这样做，我不像之前说的那样做很多播客。我喜欢研究和我一起做播客的人，因为，就像我说的，我要确保他们有所成就，而不仅仅是因为无所事事而受欢迎。想想我之前说的。想想你必须做的所有不同的声音。

You can't think like everybody else. You know, If and what I always do is I take I don't do like I said earlier, I don't do many podcasts. So and I like to research the individuals I do podcasts with because, like I said, I want them to have make sure they've accomplished something and they're just not an individual that's just popular for doing nothing. Think about and I said this earlier. Think about all the different voices that you have to do.

你知道吗？想想那需要什么，以及那让你感觉如何，以及你得多疯狂才能做到这一点。如果你像其他人那样思考和行动，你就做不到。当我看到人们做其他人做不到的事时，我总是感到着迷。我总是把这归功于天赋，而不是礼物，但这是你如何成熟地运用那份天赋，如何利用那份才能让你脱颖而出。

You know? Just think what go what goes into that and how that and then how that makes you feel and how nutty you have to be up here to be able to do that. If you think about it, if you thought and did it like everybody else, you couldn't do it. Like, I'm mesmerized when when I see people do things that other people that just they can't other people just can't do. I always relate that to a talent, not a it could have a gift, but it's way you matured that gift, the way you use that talent to get you what what you want, to separate yourself from the pack.

任何做出非凡成就的人都不会像其他人那样思考。所以当有人说你疯了，你疯了，你的回答应该是，谢谢。应该是，谢谢。因为如果你像其他人那样思考，你就会像其他人一样。

Nobody who's done anything extraordinary thinks like everybody else. So when somebody says you're crazy, you're nuts, your answer to them should be, thank you. It should be, thank you. Because if you thought like everybody else, you would be like everybody you would be like everybody else.

所以科比，迈克尔，他们在六月赢得了NBA总冠军。然后就收工了。对吧？我们做到了。我们一路走到了最后。

So Kobe, Michael, they they win an NBA championship in June. Closed down shop. Right? We did it. We took it all the way.

他们第一次叫你是什么时候？是七月份吗？

When's the first time they call you? Is it July?

呃，不是。这这这要看情况。比如迈克尔，我们每次结束后都是在劳动节。因为劳动节时他们通常会一直打到六月份才结束。对吧。

Well, no. It it it depends. So with Michael, after every what we did was it was always on Labor Day. Labor Day was so because they'd end up end up playing all the way till the June. Right.

所以你知道，他显然还有家庭责任、代言活动等各种事务要处理。他会把这些都安排好。但劳动节一到，就是高尔夫、训练、高尔夫、训练、高尔夫。就这样。结束了。

So, you know, he'd have to obviously, his family obligations, his endorsement things, all this other stuff, he would do that. And he would get everything in. But once Labor Day hit, it was golf, workout, golf, workout, golf. Done. That was it.

就这样。后来他回来打棒球，那个赛季他们输给奥兰多队之后。赛后我们坐着聊天，我说，迈克尔，我说你什么时候...我说你想见我的时候就叫我。他说，明天见。对。

That was it. Now when he came back, when he played baseball and he came back and they lost to Orlando during that during that sizz during that season. And we were sitting we were sitting we were sitting after the game, and I said, I I I said, Michael, when do you I said, call me when I when you want me to see me. He goes, I'll see you tomorrow. Yeah.

他说，明天见。

He goes, I'll see you tomorrow.

当迈克说要去打3A棒球时，你有没有想过劝他别去？

Was there a part of you when Mike said, I'm gonna go play triple a ball, baseball where you're like, Mike, don't do it.

劝他别去？我倒没有。因为这是他想要做的事。我唯一解释过的是，听着，棒球和篮球用到的肌肉群完全不同。我说它们根本是两码事。

Well Don't do it. I wasn't because, you know, it was something that he wanted to do. The only thing that I the explanation I made, I said, listen. The muscles that are used in baseball and the muscles they're used in basketball are totally different. I said they're totally, totally different.

明白吗？举个例子，当你投篮时，手肘抬高、画出弧线，这样才能让球最大概率地进入篮筐。所以迈克尔，你打算在棒球里打什么位置？他说，我要守外野，右外野、左外野，随便哪个位置都行。

Alright? And, you know, I give an example. Like, when you shoot a basketball, you, you know, you shoot a basketball elbow up, arc, you know, to get the most circumference of the rim to go in. So, Michael, what position are gonna play in baseball? He goes, I'm gonna be playing in the field, you know, right field, left field, whatever whatever it may be.

我说好的。但我告诉他：你要明白，从外野传球回内野时，球不能有弧线，必须是直线传球，因为你需要让球从A点直达B点。对吧。

I said, okay. But I said, understand this. Now when you throw a baseball from the outfield in, there's no arc on the ball. It's a line drive because you need to get it from point a to point b. Right.

所以我解释说，我们训练躯干、核心和肩膀的方式完全不同。我强调这一点是因为——你不可能用同样的方式投篮了。当然。因为我们要让肌肉以不同角度、不同速度等等进行差异化训练。

So I said, the way we train the torso, the way we train the core, the way we train the shoulder, it's totally different. So and the reason I made that point is like, you're not gonna be able to shoot the basketball the same way. Sure. Yeah. Because we're we're gonna be training the muscles to work differently in the different angles and so forth, different velocity.

我必须确保他真正理解这点。而他完全接受了。显然，所有人都希望他继续打篮球，可能再拿两个冠军，甚至实现连冠。但我从没见过哪个运动员像他这样被全方位审视——媒体聚光灯下，每个举动都被监视、批评，人人都想分一杯羹，这种永远要保持完美的压力实在太沉重了。

So I wanted to make sure he under he he under he understood that. And, he was he was fine. He was he was all in. You know, obviously, everybody would have loved to see him still continue to play basketball, and they would like, are there two more, you know, possibly another two more championships could have been it could have been h could have been h straight. But the amount and I don't even I haven't seen any athlete be scrutinized that much, have that much media attention, that everything that they did, every single part was everybody was watching, everybody everybody was criticizing, everybody was wanted a piece wanted a piece of wanted a piece of him, and it just it just got to be it just got to be too much to always be perfect.

是啊，永远完美。不仅是赛场表现，包括穿着、谈吐、应对媒体、训练态度...每件事都必须无懈可击，这种状态真的让人不堪重负。

Yeah. Always be perfect. I'm not talking about I'm just talking about, you know, the what the way he dressed, the way he talked, you know, the way he handled the media, to show up in practice, everything. It's just like it was always it was always everything had to be perfect, and that that gets to be gets to be a lot.

知道我会对迈克说什么吗？迈克，你不欠任何人任何东西。去打你的棒球吧，打完再去玩冰球也行。

You know what I would have said to Mike? Mike, you don't owe nobody nothing. Yeah. You go play that baseball, and then follow it up with some hockey.

有意思的是——他父亲当年就是这么说的。他父亲说：想打棒球？那就去打吧。

Well, that's what it's know what? It's funny that he said that. That's what his father told him. His father said, you wanna go play baseball? We'll play baseball.

这某种程度上是他父亲去世后的应激反应。是的。嗯。这太不可思议了。这是我最后一个问题前的最后一个问题，但它与你刚才说的有关联。

And this it was sort of reactionary from when his father passed away. Yeah. Mhmm. That's incredible. This is this is my last question before my last question, but it ties into what you just said.

我曾听人说起那些上升期的优秀网球选手。这很像试镜过程，对吧？比如你得到一个试镜机会，然后是复试，接着又一次复试，最后可能在银幕测试或化学反应试镜中失败——也许因为你觉得自己在压力全开时表现不佳，或者有些不可控的随机因素。

I heard something said once about, like, great tennis players that are on their way up. And it's much into this audition process, right, where like you get an audition and then a callback and then another callback and then maybe you don't, it doesn't work out on the screen test or the chemistry read because maybe you feel like you're not as good when it's Sure. The pressure's totally on, or maybe there's something arbitrary out of your control.

确实。

Sure.

他们谈论这些网球选手时说，那些反复获得亚军季军的人的问题在于，他们总觉得自己必须改变打法。嗯。因为他们会抓狂，会想为什么就是差一点？而不是想着：我他妈离成功只差毫厘。没错。

And they talked about these tennis players and said, the problem with a lot of the people that are coming in second and third over and over and over again is that they feel the need to switch up their game. Mhmm. Because they go nuts, and they go like, why is this not connecting? Instead of being like, I'm so fucking close. Yes.

我只需要加倍投入那些有效的方法

I just need to double down on what's working

是啊。

Yeah.

然后静待我的时机。

And wait for my time.

没错，那就是你的根基，是你的基本原则。根基不可动摇。你不能改变基础，就像你可以拥有房子里最精美的物品。

That's that's right. That's that's your foundation. Those are your fundamentals. You don't change your foundation. You don't take you'd only change the you could have the can have the nicest things in your house.

你可以拥有最昂贵的水晶吊灯、最考究的家具、满墙的艺术品。但如果地基不稳，一切终将崩塌。人们往往过早放弃，在即将成功时退缩。要坚持不懈地努力。

You're gonna have the most expensive chandelier, have the nicest furniture, have all this other stuff, have all this art on the wall. If that foundation is not working, everything else is gonna come crumbling down. So stay people give up too soon. They get too close. Just keep grinding it.

持续探索，不要频繁改变方向。但如今社交媒体盛行，我们总在不断切换——从未真正精通任何事。这周听这个人的观点，下周又追随另一个，直到找到自己想听的答案，而非真正需要聆听的忠告。

Keep finding it out. Don't don't be constantly changing things. But now with our social media out there, that's what we do. We never master anything. It's everything is all about, you know, you listen to one person one week and then I then you're listening to somebody else and you continue to listen to all these people until you hear the message you wanna hear or the answer that you wanna hear instead of listening to something that you need to hear.

这两者有天壤之别。若搜寻得够久，你终会得到想要的答案。但多数时候，你想要的答案并非正确答案。必须咬牙坚持，坚守初心。

There's a big there's a big there's a huge difference between the two. If you look around long enough, you're gonna get the answer you're gonna get the answer you want. And most of the time, the answer you want isn't the right answer. You gotta fight through it. You gotta stay you gotta stay with it.

必须持续突破困境，保持奋斗。人们总想过早转向，太易分心且缺乏明确目标。他们脑中缺乏清晰愿景，因为从未独立思考。

You gotta continue to push through it. You gotta continue to grind. People wanna change and go in different directions too soon. They're too easily distracted, and they're they they don't have clarity. There isn't a clear vision in their head because they're not thinking for themselves.

他们通常让他人替自己思考。人生路上无论顺逆，许多人逐渐迷失真我，活成别人的影子——总在意他人评价。而成功的根本原则在于：你必须彻底认清自我。那些在临近成功时不断改变的人，最终忘记了本心。

They're usually thinking about somebody else is usually doing the thinking for them because as you go on in life, whether it's good things or bad things, a lot of people, they don't they're not who they really are. They become somebody else. They start living somebody else's life because they're always worried about what somebody else is gonna say, what somebody else is gonna think. And instead of being you, the the one of the most foundation fundamental principles of success is you have to know exactly who you are. And those individuals that are constantly changing when they get so close, they forget who they are.

看看行业里最具才华的人，他们对自己有清醒认知；最成功的运动员亦然。他们不在乎外界眼光，善于遗忘负面评价，不会对每个议论都作出反应。

You know, you look at your great your most talented people in your business, they know exactly who they are. Your most successful athletes, they know exactly who they are. They don't care what anybody else thinks about them. They have very short memories. They don't react to everything that's said about them.

我给你举个例子。就像你刚才在Instagram上说的那样。有多少人给你发消息说，你知道的，你不是这样，你不是那样。如果你让每一件关于你的小事都引发你的情绪或反应，你接下来的二十年就真的只能做这一件事了。

I'll give you an example. Like you just said about on your Instagram. How many people message you and say, you know, you're not this, you're not that. If you let every little thing that's said about you create an emotion or a reaction from you, you would literally spend the next twenty years. That's all you'd be doing.

我喜欢在脑子里列出这些人的名单。是啊。我还喜欢想象，如果我拿到了他们的地址会怎样？对，如果我找上门去呢？

I like to make mental lists of these people. Yeah. And I like to think about what if I went what if I got their address? Yeah. What if I went to their door?

为什么？带着防狼喷雾或者某种武器。

Why? With some mace or some kind of weapon.

但你知道什么更棒吗？知道吗？扯平了。对吧。但你知道什么更棒吗？

But you know what's even better? Know? Even the score. Right. But you know what's even better?

什么？是你从8.5直接跃升到900万。对。就是这样，你甚至不用多说一句话。

What? Is a step you go from 8.5 to 9,000,000. Yeah. That's and and you don't even have to say a word.

然后你可以出名到派别人来找我。赛斯。

And then you can be so famous, you send someone else to me. Seth.

这就对了。

There you go.

你懂我意思吗？我完全明白你删掉的内容。是的。是的。我不认识那个人。

You know what I'm saying? I know exactly what you're removed. Yes. Yes. I don't know that guy.

好的。最后一个问题，蒂姆。我真的很感谢你接受采访。哦，这是我的荣幸。

Yeah. Okay. Final question, Tim. I I so appreciate you doing this. Oh, my pleasure.

这是我在播客里问每个人的问题。你的一两条蒂姆·格罗弗法则是什么？你发现的、想要灌输给他人的真理是什么？

It's a question I ask everyone on the podcast. What is your one or two Tim Grover commandments? Truths that you have discovered that you would wanna impress upon someone else.

首先，事情不会容易。它本来就不该容易。懂吗？所以我买了块硬骨头。要么就是你走运了。

Well, one of the things that is it's not gonna be easy. It's not supposed to be easy. Alright? That's why I buy a gum head. Or you got lucky.

不。你不是走运。你必须...我知道这听起来像陈词滥调，但你必须投入。你必须付出努力。你必须经历磨砺。

No. You didn't get lucky. You put it you gotta you gotta put I know it sounds like a cliche, but you have to put it. You have to put in the work. You have to put in the grind.

你必须坚持到底。而且你必须做正确的事。懂吗？比如，如果你在某方面没天赋——举个绝佳例子——懂吗？

You have to stay with it now. You have to be working at the right things. Alright? You know, if you don't have talent in it, like, okay, here's a great example. Alright?

我在配音和表演上毫无天赋。一点都没有。懂吗？所以我不会浪费时间在我不擅长的领域追求成功。明白？

I have zero talent in voice over or acting. None. Alright? So I'm not gonna try to spend my time trying to be successful in something I don't have talent in. Alright?

如果你没有成为运动员的天赋，就不要年复一年地试图去做这件事。你必须发现自己擅长什么。如果你在某方面有天赋，那么你还需要具备支撑这份天赋的智慧。有了这份智慧，你还必须极具竞争力，然后你还必须坚韧不拔。你必须坚韧不拔。

If you don't have talent to be an athlete, don't spend years and years trying to do to do that. You have to find out what you have talent in. If you have talent in it, then you have to have the intelligence that goes behind the talent. If you have the intelligence that goes behind the talent, you have to be extremely competitive, and then you have to be resilient. You have to be resilient.

就像你提到的网球选手那样。当他们达到某个阶段时，就不再坚韧了。而如果你继续保持坚韧，你就会突破，就会达到，就会登上那个更高的层次。另外我想说的是——要清楚知道自己是谁，明白实现目标不止一条路。不能因为某条路失败了就放弃。我曾想成为职业篮球运动员，明白吗？

It's exactly what you said about the tennis players. You know, when they get to that point, they stop being resilient and if you continue to be resilient, you'll get you'll get to that, you'll get to that, you'll get to that next level and the other thing I try and I I've kind of said this, know exactly who you are and understand that there's more than one way to get what you want. Just because you failed at it one way. I wanted to be a professional basketball player. Alright?

我的膝盖受了重伤，但即便没有受伤，我也永远成不了职业篮球运动员。我很幸运能在大学级别打球。但我清楚自己想从事职业体育相关的工作。太多人认为，如果当不了职业运动员就是失败者。

Blew out my knee, but even if I didn't blow out my knee, I was never gonna be a professional basketball player. I I was fortunate enough to play at a collegiate level. Alright? But I knew I wanted to be involved in professional sports. So many people were to think, well, if I don't become a professional athlete, I'm a failure.

这种想法不对。参与体育运动的途径有很多，不一定要当运动员。你可以做训练师、教练、录像分析师，

That was the only no. There's many ways of still being involved in a sport and not being a player. You could be a trainer. You could be a coach. You could be the video person.

可以当球队老板、球探。实现梦想的途径不止一条，不要钻牛角尖觉得做不到某件事就是失败。失败与否取决于你自己的判断。看看娱乐行业，你有多少种不同的成功方式。

You could be the owner. You could be the scout. So there's more than one way to get what you want instead of just letting it hit in your head and say, if I don't do this, I'm going I I failed. Failure is something you decide whether you failed at it or not. In the entertainment business, look how many different ways you've succeeded.