和平使者：詹姆斯·古恩官方播客 - 第2季 第3集

我比义务警员还喜欢乌鸦，简直痴迷到不行。我已经登上乌鸦狂热列车了。

I like crows even more than vigilante does. I'm obsessed with them. I am on the crow train.

是啊。

Yeah.

我可以告诉你。

And I can tell you.

说说乌鸦狂热列车的事吧。

Tell me about the crow train.

准备好了吗伙计们？开始吧。好的，大家好！欢迎收听《和平使者》官方播客，我是詹姆斯·古恩。

We ready, guys? Let's do it. Okay. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Peacemaker, the official podcast with James Gunn.

我就是詹姆斯·古恩本人，既是《和平使者》多集的编剧和导演，也是节目统筹。

I happen to be James Gunn here. I am the writer and director of many episodes of Peacemaker as well as the showrunner.

但这集不是你导的。你...你像用蜜糖陷阱骗我来这集，说什么'快来加入'，结果我来了之后...

You didn't direct this episode, though. You you, like, you honey dicked me to come into this episode. It was like, come come join, and then and then I show up.

然后我就...

And then I did

没兑现。你就像在说'我可没法当那个叫格雷格的家伙'...

not. You're like, I'm not gonna be able to be this guy called Greg who's gonna

他棒极了。我完全...

know He was fantastic. I was absolutely

这位不知名的导演叫格雷格·马托拉。

This this unknown director called Greg Matola.

是的，我同意。

Yes. I agree.

好的，我和我们稍后会谈到这个人。现在和我一起的是我的联合主持人，詹妮弗·霍兰德和史蒂夫·阿吉。

Well, I'm here with we'll get to this guy in a minute. I'm here with my cohost, Jennifer Holland and Steve Agee.

没错。我在《和平使者》中饰演约翰·经济学家。

That's right. I play John Economist on Peacemaker.

他先叫了我的名字。我本该第一个发言的。不过没关系。没关系。我是詹妮弗，饰演阿米莉亚·哈考特。

He said my name first. I should've gone first. But it's fine. Fine. And and I'm Jennifer I play Amelia Harcourt.

是的

That's

没错。这里是官方指定平台，我们将深入探讨《和平使者》的每一集。我们喜欢谈论《和平使者》，谈论幕后故事，谈论隐藏的含义，以及彩蛋。我们也会讨论音乐。我们会回答粉丝的问题，还有更多内容。

right. And this is the official destination where we go deeper into each and every episode of Peacemaker. We love talking about Peacemaker, about behind the scenes, about the secret meaning of things, about Easter eggs. We also talk about the music. We answer fan questions and much more.

今天我们要讨论的是第二季第三集，标题是《袖中另有乾坤》。这个名字很贴切。导演正是格雷格·莫托拉。和他合作非常愉快。

Today, we're talking about season two, episode three. It's titled Another Rick Up My Sleeve. Aptly named. It's directed by none other than Greg Mottola. Absolutely wonderful to work with.

今天我们还有特邀嘉宾乔尔·金纳曼加入，

And we are joined today by our guest Joel Kinnaman,

他是我们的朋友饰演者。

who Our plays friend.

我们的朋友

Our friend

现实生活中的朋友。我们线下的挚友。乔尔。

in real life. Our IRL IRL. Friend Joel.

他在詹姆斯·古恩编剧并执导的票房大片《X特遣队》中饰演瑞克·弗莱格二世，你可能已经看过这部影片。

Who plays Rick Flag Jr, who you might have caught in the blockbuster film, The Suicide Squad, written and directed by James Gunn.

乔尔参演过太多精彩作品了。他是当今最优秀的演员之一。我很久以来就是他的粉丝，这也是我坚持让他在电影中存活下来的原因之一。整部电影只有两个角色基本保留了下来，而你就是其中之一。

And so many great things that Joel has been in. He's just he's one of the best actors out there. I was a fan of his for a long time, which is one of the things that enticed me to keep him in in the movie and keep him alive. Two of them of only two characters who kinda stayed in the movie. Keep But you I kept you in the movie.

没错。

Yeah.

接下来会有重大剧透。如果还没看过，请先前往HBO Max观看。

There will be major spoilers. So if you haven't watched yet, go to HBO Max and do so.

好的。让我们从头开始。你出生在瑞典。我出生在瑞典。但你并没有明显的口音。

Alright. Let's start at the beginning. About you were born Sweden. I was born Sweden. But you do not really have an accent.

是的。我父亲是美国人。所以...我在瑞典长大，但和父亲说英语。

No. My my dad's American. So Yeah. I I grew up in Sweden, but I spoke English with my dad. So Yeah.

2009年2月来美国时，我确实有很重的口音，但你知道...我算是勉强应付过来了。

When I came here in 02/2009, I I did have quite a significant accent, but I was you know, I I kind of skidded by.

说实话，在我认识你的这些年里，你的口音比过去更不明显了。

I actually think in the years I've known you, you even have less of an accent than you used to.

我是说，我想我在那里住了十五年。但是，是的。当我回去时，比如，我在美国的第一份工作，《谋杀》，这部剧在

I mean, I guess I've lived there for fifteen years. But Yeah. When I go back, like, my first job in The US, The Killing, this show on

有史以来最好的剧集之一。

One of the best shows ever.

AMC电视台。《

AMC. The

我第一次看到你出演的作品。我们

first thing I ever saw you in We

爱你。

love you.

我知道这可能远不是你作为演员的第一部作品，但乔尔，你在那部剧里表现得太棒了。我是说，你真的非常出色。

I know it's probably the the not the first thing by far you ever did it as an as an actor, but you are so great in that show, Joel. I mean, I it's you're just so good.

但在那里，我，就像，我蒙混过关了，因为我当时在用某种自创的，比如，嘻哈口音，或者，你知道，就像是的。是的。但确实，我想我成功糊弄过去了，因为当我回头听那段表演时，我真的不明白为什么人们没有更多地注意到我的瑞典口音，

But there, I, like, I got away with it because I was I was doing some kind of home cooked, like, hip hop accent or, like, you know, like a Yeah. Yeah. But, yes, I I think I got away with because when when I go back and listen to that, I I I don't really understand that people didn't pick up, like, on my Swedish more than that,

但是，你

but, you

事实就是

it is what

如此。不。你在那部剧里很棒，但你几乎在所有作品中都很出色。你有一种自然主义的表演风格，这绝对契合我写的东西，虽然人们不一定会想到这点，但就像我努力做的一件事就是把这些夸张的角色拉回现实。是的，让他们接地气。

it is. No. You're great on that show, but you're great in pretty much everything you do. You have a kind of naturalistic acting style that definitely, feeds into what I write, which people don't necessarily think of, but, like, one of the things that I try to do is take these outlandish characters and bring them down Yeah. To Earth.

所以我们玩得很开心。在《自杀小队》里我们也特别愉快，因为你说，詹姆斯，我其实从没真正演过喜剧。

And so we had a great time. And we had a great time on The Suicide Squad because you're like, James, I've never really done comedy before.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以快告诉我，到底是怎么回事。我觉得我发现你真有喜剧天赋。

So let's really tell me, you know, what's what's happening with it. And we I think I found that you have a real gift for comedy.

这帮家伙。

These guys.

这个是干嘛的？

What does this one do?

你们这群白痴。

You fucking idiots.

所以当要写203集的时候，我就想，天啊。要是乔尔能帮个忙回来演他的角色就太好了，不过是在平行宇宙里的版本

And so when it came time to writing this episode, two zero three, I'm like, oh my god. I would love if Joel could do us a favor and come in and and reprise his character except for the alternate world

其实我更享受演这个版本。我宁愿继续演这个。

version of of Which I actually enjoyed playing much more. I'd I'd much rather continue with this.

没错。在这个宇宙里，小瑞克·弗莱格和我们宇宙或DC宇宙里的他很不一样。最让我兴奋的是能看你多演些喜剧。看到你在这个角色里的表现，正是激发我创作这个角色的原因之一。

Yes. So we see in this universe, Rick Flag Jr. Is a lot different than he is in our universe or in the DCU universe. And one of the things that so excited me about doing this was because I wanted to see you do some more comedy. And so seeing you in this role, doing that was one of the things that inspired me to write the role.

最近怎么样，老兄？

How you doing, man?

克里斯。继续。

Chris. Going.

对。我刚才就是在问他来这里做什么。他是不是有什么正式事务或者我应该参与的事。含糊其辞的瑞克。

Yeah. I was I was just asking him what he's doing here. If he's got, like, something official or something I should be a part of. Mealy mouthed Rick.

我们爱我们爱含糊其辞的瑞克。含糊其辞的瑞克。

We love we love Mealy mouthed Rick. Mealy mouthed Rick.

天啊。太屎了。简直是最搞笑的屎。

My god. Is Shit. It is the funniest shit.

太搞笑了。太搞笑了。你完全投入我们这些疯狂桥段的样子真的让我惊艳。

It is so funny. It's so funny. I was really blown away by you just totally committing to what we in were this crazy stuff.

玩得很开心。我能来这儿犯傻。

Had a lot of fun. I got to come and be silly.

你从来没有...我是说，你以前演过像这个版本的林弗莱格·朱尼尔这样极度书呆子的角色吗？

You have never I mean, have you ever played a majorly geeky character like this version of Ring Flag Junior?

没有。没有。没有。没有。我觉得我从没演过这样的角色，或者说，那算是角色的雏形，但

No. No. No. No. I don't think I've ever played a character, like, in or I mean, it was, like, a the beginnings of a character, but

是啊。

Yeah.

但带着那种态度。

But with that sort of attitude.

我不知道。这只是整个赛季中我最喜欢的部分之一。

I don't know. It's so it was it's just one of my favorite parts of this whole season.

你知道，对我来说，突然参与任何本该有趣的事情，会有点吓人。是的，只是因为这不是我习惯做的。

You know, for me, like, jumping in and doing anything that is supposed to be funny, that gets a little scary. Yeah. Just because it's not what I'm used to

是啊。

Yeah.

去做。懂吗？

To do. You know?

嗯。

Yeah.

所以我感觉，好吧，这是我更需要专注的地方。

So I could feel like, okay. This is what I gotta focus on more.

太棒了。是的。就是

So good. Yeah. It's

那种偷瞄、潜行、踢翻垃圾桶的样子。

The so peeking, the sneaking, the kicking over the trash can.

踢翻垃圾桶是我最喜欢的一幕，真的，整个赛季里每次看到都让我笑到不行的是——这不是剧本安排的——是你做的。当你突然出现说‘大问题’。嘿，格斯。我不该

The kicking over But the trash then my favorite thing, and, like, really, truly one of the things that makes me laugh the hardest every time I see it in the whole season is, for me, it's when which is not scripted. You did it. When you go, big problem. Hey, Gus. I'm not

出现在拐角的。我我我我跟你说过的。大问题。

supposed to be around the corner. I I I I told you that. Big problem.

大问题。

Big problem.

就像他不应该

Like he's not supposed

出现在垃圾桶旁。

to trash can.

他不应该在那里。就像，这是

He's not supposed to be there. Like, it's

比如把垃圾桶那样放在拐角处。刚刚告诉过你。

like put the trash cans around the corner like that. Just told you.

大问题。

Big problem.

太蠢了。

So dumb.

我们以揭示一件事开始这一集，杰德和我从节目一开始就知道，哈考特在第一集对和平使者反应消极的原因

We start out the episode where we reveal, something that Jed and I have known since the beginning of this show, that the reason Harcourt reacted negatively to Peacemaker in episode one

消极反应。她想杀死和平使者的原因

Negatively. The reason why she wanted to murder Peacemaker

在第一季中。

In the first season.

她之所以和他同队，是因为她最好的朋友，也可能是她唯一真正亲密的朋友之一。

She was on a team with him is because her best friend and maybe one of her only real close friends

是小瑞克·弗莱格。

Was Rick Flag junior.

没错。顺便说下，我们第一次看到乔尔和珍在一起的场景时，你提到过有个能在地球上炸出洞的女朋友。

Yeah. By the way, that first scene where we see Joel and Jen together, you mentioned a girlfriend who could blow a hole in the earth.

那是谁？那是魅惑女巫魅惑女巫。他在大卫·阿耶原版《自杀小队》里最终和她在一起的角色。

That Who That's the Enchantress Enchantress. Who he ends up with in the original David Ayers original Sunset Squad.

那意味着

That'll mean

更糟的是，因为我们在节目中常讨论的一个重点就是何为正统。从《和平使者》第一季到第二季期间，DCEU到DCU发生了重大转变。所以多数内容是正统的，但有些不是。显然，正统设定之一是和平使者在马耳他岛杀了小瑞克·弗莱格，而你就是小瑞克·弗莱格。但这不妨碍我们未来给你化妆变成DCU里的另一个角色。

To make matters worse, because one of the big things we talk about in the show is what's canon. Because between season one of Peacemaker and season two of Peacemaker, there is a big shift from the DCEU to the DCU. So most things are canon, but some things are not. Obviously, one thing that's canon is that Peacemaker killed Rick Flag junior in Corto Maltese, and you are Rick Flag junior. But that doesn't stop us from putting makeup on you and turning into another character in the DCU in the future.

或者，你知道的，

Or, you know,

他的双胞胎兄弟。某个邪恶反派。

his twin. Some evil villain.

所以在这集《和平使者》里，我们真的看到和平使者进入平行维度，前往地球2，发现我们已经见过他还在世的兄弟。我们见到的父亲其实是个温柔的人，不是白龙而是蓝龙。他们属于叫'顶尖三人组'的组织。我们知道艾米莉亚·哈考特存在于这个世界，因为我们看到过他们约会时的合照。但这集是我们首次看到来自DCU世界的克里斯托弗·史密斯冒险进入这个维度，太棒了。人人都爱和平使者，世界上最棒的维度。

So in this this episode of of Peacemaker, we really get Peacemaker going into the alternate dimension, going to Earth 2, and we find out, you know, we've already met his brother who's still alive. We've met his father who's actually a sweet guy and is not the white dragon, is the blue dragon. They're in a group called the top trio, and we knew that Emilia Harcourt existed in this world because we saw a picture of them together that they had dated. But in this episode, it's the first time we see Christopher Smith from our world, the DCU, venturing out into this other dimension, which is fantastic. Everybody loves Peacemaker, greatest dimension in the world.

然后他去了——可能违背了更好判断——去了阿格斯2号见第二个艾米莉亚·哈考特。珍，你演的哈考特太出色了

And he goes to, you know, probably against his better judgment, goes to Argus 2 to meet Amelia Harcourt two. Jen, you're amazing as Harcourt

谢谢。

and Thank you.

这个这个不同，但你知道，我喜欢你塑造哈考特的方式在于她也与众不同。但你并没有做得完全不同。懂我意思吗？就像是

This this different, but, you know, what I what I liked about the way you portray Harcourt too is she's different. But she you're not doing, like, a totally different. You know what mean? There's, like

不过很接地气。我们非常写实。对。对。就像这就是我的观点。

it's grounded though. We're very grounded. Yeah. Yeah. It's like That was my note.

谢谢。

Thank you.

约翰的那些，你知道，还有那些约翰和那些衣服，你需要些东西来

With John's you know, and with those John and those clothes, you know, you need something to

稳住 对。

ground Yeah.

我希望她看起来仍然是同一个人，拥有相同的基因构成等等。你知道，这有点像先天与后天的讨论。她在不同环境中长大，有不同的父母，经历了与我们常规宇宙中那个冷酷强硬的哈考特版本不同的体验。

I wanted her to seem like she was still the same person with the same sort of genetic makeup and everything. You know, it's sort of the nature versus nurture conversation. She grew up in a different setting. She had different parents. She had a different, experience, than our harsh, hardened version of Harcourt in in our regular universe.

我想让她依然保持逐渐显现的谦逊，但整个人柔和得多。

And I wanted to make that the so she still has a rising humility, but she's just so much softer.

是什么细微差别造就了我们世界的硬核哈考特和这个世界的渴求哈考特？我们叫她渴求哈考特因为她有点饥渴。我觉得

What was the subtle difference that made our hard court, our court, and this world's hard court, thirst court? Which we Thirst court. We call her thirst court because she's a little thirsty. Think I think

我认为关键可能是，我们哈考特受到的伤害是那些深沉的黑暗经历，你知道，我们讨论过这些塑造了她。而这个哈考特唯一真正的伤害是她被男人欺骗过，所以她是个

I think that maybe the thing is is that, like, the damage that our Harcourt has is this deep, dark stuff that, you know, you and I have discussed about what makes her who she is. Yeah. And the damage the only real damage that Harcourt two has is that she's is that she's been fucked over by guys, and so she's a

我敢打赌她有个酗酒的父亲，就在这个第三法庭。

little bit also am gonna bet she has an alcoholic father, this thirst court.

也许吧，我没想过

Maybe. I didn't think about

这个问题。是啊。他就像...她愿意容忍一些非常恶劣的行为。

it. Issues. Yeah. He's got, like She's willing to put up with some seriously bad behavior.

对我来说最奇怪的是那种微笑。硬核的双重微笑方式

The weird thing for me is the smiling. Hardcore two smiles way

更频繁。对。对。

more often. Yeah. Yeah.

我们没见过那种情况。

We don't see that.

是啊。或者她怎么说来着，'抱歉，我只是在开玩笑'——刚说完一些又蠢又傻的话。而哈考特直接说'吃我短裤'，然后他们就...嗯。根本不在乎。

Yeah. Or how she says, I'm sorry. I'm just breaking your balls after just saying something some kind of silly and stupid. Whereas, Harcourt says, eat my dick shorts, and they were Mhmm. Doesn't give a shit.

没错。

That's right.

但我们见到了和平号机车，其实就在我办公室那边。我们是在我办公室拍的。所以我觉得克里斯托弗·史密斯在地球2里最兴奋的，甚至超过阿米莉亚·哈考特2号的，就是这辆和平号机车。挺酷的，真是辆很酷的和平机车。

But we are introduced to the peace cycle, which is actually right over there in my office. We're shooting in my office. So it's like there's nothing that I think Christopher Smith is more excited about in Earth two, even Amelia Harcourt two, than the peace cycle. It's pretty cool. It's a pretty cool peace cycle.

它有鱼雷。低音炮和低音炮。导弹。对。前面还有导弹。

It's got torpedoes. Subwoofers and Subwoofers. Missiles. Yeah. Missiles on the front.

这太荒谬了。

It's so ridiculous.

是啊，我不知道。你能一边开车一边发射导弹吗？你能吗？

Yeah. I don't know. Can you drive at the same time you're firing the missiles, do you Yeah.

对，我觉得你得加速，因为会有后坐力，所以必须这么做。

Yeah. Think you just gotta speed up because you're gonna kick back a little bit, so you have to.

哇，好吧。我还以为你要是发射那玩意儿就得停下来。和平使者与米娅·哈考特在奥兹·奥斯本的《Dreamer》伴奏下上演了一段美妙的浪漫蒙太奇。

Wow. Okay. Yeah. Thought you would have to stop if you if you shot if you shot that thing off. Peacemaker and Mia Harcourt have a wonderful little romantic montage to Ozzy Osbourne's Dreamer.

奇怪的是，这是我们第二次使用名为《Dreamer》的歌——第一集用了Foxy Shazam的《Dreamer》，现在用的是奥兹·奥斯本的《Dreamer》，两首完全不同的歌。

Strangely, the second time we're using a song titled we used Foxy Shazam's Dreamer in episode one. Now we're using Ozzy Osbourne's Dreamer, two separate songs.

都是好歌。

Great songs.

两首好歌。奥兹最棒的慢歌之一。他们交谈时发生了爆炸，你预料到爆炸了吗？没有。

Two great songs. One of my favorite slower Ozzy songs. As they talk, there's an explosion. Did you see the explosion coming? No.

因为你是第一次看嘛。

Because you're watching this for the first Yeah.

没，确实让我很意外。

No. Yeah. Definitely took me by surprise. Yeah. Yeah.

我觉得...还挺好笑的。

Me it it doesn't Pretty funny.

这很有趣。然后我们还有

It is funny. And then we have

杰瑞。杰瑞。

Jerry. Jerry.

杰瑞。是的。不知道有没有人注意到，但所有'自由之子'成员——就是那群接管...你知道的，那群接管车管所的恐怖分子——因为

Jerry. Yeah. I don't know if anybody noticed it, but all of the Sons of Liberty, that's the group that's taking over the, you know, the terrorists that's taking over the DMV because

他们看起来都像是从波特兰来的。

They look like they all come from Portland.

对。他们确实有点像

Right. They do kinda look like

他们就像波特兰式的恐怖分子。

They're like Portlandia terrorists.

是啊是啊。他们有点波特兰男孩的气质。我是说，听好了。常青州立大学和波特兰非常相似，你知道的。

Yeah. Yeah. They kinda have Portland boys. I mean, listen. Evergreen is very similar to, you know, Portland.

就在西北偏北方向。

It's North Northwest.

哦，没错。就在那儿。

Oh, yeah. There it is.

我们就在那里。

That's where we are.

就在那时，孙决定接管DMV，和平使者开始行动。我们看到他时隔许久再次大展身手。没错，乔尔。

And and at that point, Sun's deliberate to take over the DMV, and Peacemaker goes into action. And we see him, for the first time in a while, kick a lot of ass. Yeah. Joel

太荒谬了。

was So ridiculous.

对着屏幕上每个死亡场景疯狂傻笑。很高兴认识你。

Giggling maniacally at every death on screen. So nice to meet you.

什么是

What was

你最喜欢的结局死亡场景？

your favorite death on the end?

哦，我觉得是铅笔那一段。

Oh, I think it was the pencils.

铅笔插进

The pencils to the

但还有那个可怜的营养不良家伙被斧头劈中额头。营养不良？

But also that sad little malnourished fellow that got a axe to his forehead. Malnourished?

是的。听起来

Yes. That sounded

那个人？那感觉真是个霸凌行为。他不应该他

a guy? That was such a bully move, I felt like. He shouldn't have He

是个恐怖分子。

is a terrorist.

是啊，但他当时生活很艰难，我对他有些同情。

Yeah, but he was having a rough time in life, I feel like I had sympathy for him.

听完还是懵的。就是有个瞬间会想：啥？发生什么了？脑子完全没转过来

Still confused after Yeah. There's a moment where What? What happened? Brain didn't exactly

我挺理解他的。对。嗯。确实。我能体会他的感受。

I felt for him. Yeah. And Yeah. Yeah. I felt for him.

我对他毫无同情。他也有名字的。他们都有名字。这些人名还都特别普通

I didn't feel jack shit for him. He's a name too. They all have names. They all have names. They all have first names that are like

太搞笑了。

so funny.

什么布拉德、加里、吉姆、布拉德之类的。

These are Brad and Gary and Jim and Brad.

对。铅笔那个桥段挺有意思的。

Yeah. The pencil one was pretty good.

没错。我还喜欢他搅拌脑子的样子，像在做脑浆奶昔。

Yeah. And I like how he squishes he mixes the brain. Makes a little brain smoothie.

嗯。奶昔。

Yeah. Smoothie.

其中一名恐怖分子初次冲进车管所时，她扛着一把巨大的机枪，朝天扫射，吼道：'都他妈给我趴下'。那是Cece Ice，她是我的

One of the terrorists, when they first run into the DMV, she's got a big, like, machine gun, and she shoots it up to the air, she says, man, sit down on the motherfucking ground. That's Cece Ice. She's my

你的替身演员。

Your stunt double.

她是我的替身演员。

She's my stunt double.

没错，她棒极了。

Yeah. She's great.

她确实很棒。

She's great.

是啊。于是和平使者终于成为他真正想成为的英雄，并与兄弟谈心。David Denman在那场戏里表现绝佳，Greg执导兄弟对峙戏份也功力非凡——当那句'你永远是我兄弟，无论你做什么。你随时可以向我倾诉'说出口时，那种悲怆感扑面而来。

Yeah. And so Peacemaker becomes the hero that he really wants to be and talks to his brother. And there's this kind of really tough David Denman's fantastic in that scene, and Greg did a fantastic job directing the scene with the the two brothers where we see the sadness. You're my brother, and you always will be no matter what you do. You can always tell me what's going on.

我真的很

I really

想你。

missed you.

约翰，虽然我们没聊过这个，但从《自杀小队》合作至今，他的演技突飞猛进，成长为如此出色的演员，这真的很酷。我们还见到了红野圣人。

John, like, we haven't talked about it, but, you know, John, between when you worked with him on The Suicide Squad and today has done so much acting, and he's so he's grown so much as an actor to be it's, like, really a a cool thing. We meet Red Saint Wild.

我特意带了红野圣人来助阵。当时我身边没人可用。他31岁，是世界顶尖的猎鹰者。

And I brought a Red Saint Wild here to assist. I had no one there. It's 31. World's foremost eagle hunter.

猎鹰人。

Eagle hunter.

迈克尔·鲁克饰演的角色是谁。他未来会成为伊格利的宿敌。他说那个穿着文化上不恰当服饰的迈克尔·鲁克。那是在背景中进行的文化挪用。文化挪用。

Who is Michael Rooker's character. He's going to be Eagly's nemesis in the future. He said the culturally inappropriate culturally inappropriately dressed Michael Rooker. That was culturally appropriating in the background. Culturally appropriating.

对。文化挪用。对。我觉得你这是剧透。

Yeah. Culturally appropriating. Yeah. I think you This is spoilers.

你这么说。

You say this.

没错。你称他为文化挪用队长。特别是

Yeah. You call him cult you call him captain cultural appropriations. Especially

戴着顶玻利维亚帽子的时候。对。

with a Bolivian hat on those. Yeah.

哦，是玻利维亚的吗？那是主要的？我觉得更像是印第安人的。对。

Oh, is it Bolivian? Is that the main? I think it's more of the the native American Yeah.

但但印第安。他看起来确实

But but native. He does look

很像威利·纳尔逊。

a lot like Willie Nelson.

确实。他身上有很多威利·纳尔逊的影子。

He does. There's a there's a lot of Willie Nelson in there.

威利·尼尔森是在进行文化挪用吗？

Is Willie Nelson culturally appropriating things?

我我觉得是。但我认为没关系。

I I think so. But I think it's okay.

我认为

I think

因为他可是该死的威利·尼尔森啊。

it's because he's fucking Willie Nelson.

没错。他他太棒了。威利·尼尔森

Yeah. He's he's pretty great. Willy Nelson

就是那个人。去年在超级碗上。

is the guy. On the bowl last year.

是啊。依然很棒。

Yeah. Still great.

107岁了还，简直不可思议。

107 years old and is, like, incredible.

107岁。对。好吧。哦还有，我们在这集里看到的另一件事是《和平使者》第一季最受欢迎的角色之一——柔道大师的回归

107. Yeah. Okay. Oh, also, we the other thing that we see in this episode is a return of one of the, Peacemaker, season season one's favorite characters, the Judo Master

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

由Nuth Lee饰演的角色是谁。

Who played by Nuth Lee.

我们发现他的真名是Rip Jagger，即柔术大师。

Who we find out his, Judo Master's real name is Rip Jagger.

Rip Jagger，就像漫画里那样。

Rip Jagger, as it is in the comics.

这个我之前还真不知道。

Is that I did not know that.

哦不，他在漫画里的名字就是Rip Jagger。哦对，这名字太疯狂了，尤其对那些不在乎的人来说。

Oh, no. His name in the comics is Rip Jagger. Oh. Yeah. It's a crazy name, especially for none of the fucks.

天啊，这也太他妈好笑了。是啊，Rip Jagger到底是谁啊？

Oh, my god. That's so fucking funny. Yeah. Who the fuck is Rip Jagger?

嘿，胖子。

Hey, fatty.

Jagger是个越南名字，不知道你知不知道。

Jagger's a Vietnamese name. Don't know if you knew that.

所以Mick Jagger是越南人咯。

So Mick Jagger is Vietnamese.

没错。

That's right.

好的。

Okay.

他至少有一部分是他父亲的血统。

He's part at least his father.

在未来的某个时候。

Somewhere down the line.

肯定是越南人，因为Jagger是一个越南姓氏。

Vietnamese for sure because Jagger is a Vietnamese family name.

典型的越南人

Classic Vietnamese Even

尽管你知道，漫画里的Judomaster是白人。

though, you know, Judomaster is white in the comics.

哦，我不知道。嗯，这有点奇怪。

Oh, I didn't know. Well, that is weird.

对于五六十年代来说并不奇怪。六十年代，他那个年代，他们把所有人都画成白人。对吧。乔尔，那是哪一年来着？二月？

It's not weird for the fifties and sixties. Sixties, when he's from, they made everybody white. Right. Joel, back in what year was it? February?

'19年。

'19.

我们什么时候拍的？侧眼？对，对。

When we did When you shot? Side squint? Yeah. Yeah.

所以你已经扮演过瑞克·弗莱格了。你拿到了剧本。接下来就是这样发生的吗？你知道我在编写并执导。对吧？

So you had already played Rick Flag. You got the screenplay. Is that what happened next? You knew that I was writing in directing. Correct?

有没有人提醒过你剧本里你角色的结局？我觉得没有。杰伊告诉我，根本没人他妈告诉过他。

Did somebody warn you what happened to your character in the script or not? I don't think so. I know Jai told me that nobody fucking told him.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

这一点都不好笑。他刚拿到剧本就读了起来。他很兴奋能读到剧本。而我，我...

It's not funny. He just got it and read it. He got it. He's excited to read the script. And I and I made

他在第14页就死了。

He dies on, page 14.

他大概在第四页就死了，对。大概第十页吧。而且没人告诉他。他还想着'等不及要读这个詹姆斯·古恩的剧本了，我要再次出演回旋镖队长'。结果直接灰飞烟灭了。

He dies on, like, page four yeah. Yeah. 10 And, or like, nobody told him. And he's like, I can't wait to read this James Dunn script with my character, Captain Boomerang reprising his role. Disintegrates.

然后他发现自己被彻底切成了碎片，你知道，但是...

And he finds himself getting totally chopped up on the, you know, but

我爱死他那句'这就是命'了。他的...

I love his the cookie crumbles. His

经纪人被告知了，但是...

agents were told, but

也许他们告诉过我。是的。

Maybe they told me that. Yeah.

但你其实不会死，只是祂在意当你变得如此

But you really don't die just He cares when you get so

渺小。他太淡定了。他就像，我不知道。好吧，

little. He's so chill. He's like, I don't know. Well,

我是说，当然，你知道的，这将会是一段很棒的经历和旅程。所以，当然会有一点伤感，因为你只会出现在一个章节里。但是

I mean, you know, of course, it's like, you know it's gonna be a great a great experience and a great ride. And so, of course, there's, like, a little sadness that you're only gonna be in one chapter. But

但这很有趣。但显然不是真的。你现在

But you But it's funny. But obviously not true. You're in

在这里出现。这是一种高尚的，

here you are coming It's a noble,

英勇的牺牲。是的。不。当我们被射击时，我对此非常满意。对我来说，那整个战斗场景，我特别喜欢我们拍摄的那个镜头。

heroic death. Yeah. No. When we were shot at, I was so happy with it. For me, it was, I mean, that that whole that fight, like, I love that shot that we did.

哦，就是我们戴着头盔拍的那个。头盔里那个。那是那是

Oh, that we did in the helmet. In the helmet. That's that's

对。那个

yeah. That

那个不。

that No.

我我特别喜欢那个，而且我觉得那是个相当标志性的死亡场景。确实如此。我很满意。确实。

I I love I love that's and, you know, I thought it was a pretty pretty iconic death. It is. I'm happy with it. It is.

乔尔正在谈论《自杀小队》里那段令人难以置信的打斗场面，以防你们还没看过。他们有个超酷的镜头，镜头环绕着移动。我想是绕着人物转。

Joel's talking about this this incredible fight sequence in case you haven't seen the Suicide Squad. They they have this crazy cool shot where they kind of, go around. I think you're going around.

没错。当时的情况是和平使者的头盔掉了下来，落在他们所在的地窖中央。在一个长镜头里，我们不是跟随乔尔和和平使者的动作，而是环绕着头盔拍摄，通过头盔反光看到他们的打斗。然后镜头快速切换到他们实际打斗的画面，这段拍摄非常复杂。

Yeah. Well, what happens is Peacemaker's helmet falls off his head. It's laying in the middle of the cellar where they are. And Joel and Peacemaker in a single shot, we we track not with them, but around the helmet as we see their reflection as they fight. And then it swish pans over to them actually fighting and it was complicated.

整场打戏都相当复杂。

And the whole fight sequence is pretty complicated.

该死的理查德·诺顿。

Fucking Richard Norton.

对理查德·诺顿致敬。这位伟大的动作指导在特技协调员盖伊的团队下编排了那场打斗。理查德·诺顿是个了不起的人，既是演员又是动作指导，几个月前刚去世。

And Richard Dat yes. Shout out to the great Richard Norton who choreographed that fight under stunt coordinator Guy Richard Norton was a wonderful guy, actor, fight choreographer, and he just passed away a couple months ago.

我爱理查德。他是个特别温柔的人。他曾是我的老师之一，知道吗？我跟他学过很多柔术。唉，是啊。

Loved Richard. He he was such a sweet man. And he he was one of my teachers, you know? I trained a lot of jujitsu with him and Ugh. Yeah.

他是个非常好的人。

He was he was a very nice man.

没错。他是个...他是个很棒的人。是啊，很爱他的家人。

Yeah. He's a he's a he was a great guy. Yeah. Loved his family

他总是能让事情变得有趣。你知道，轻松愉快，但同时又非常专业。他对自己想做的事有清晰的规划，但总带着一种轻松的精神。

and he was he was he he always made things fun. You know, fun and light and easy, but he was still very much on point and, you know, always had a clear vision of what he wanted to do, but he he just brought a a light spirit.

我喜欢理查德是因为他曾在很多老港片里饰演白人角色。我是个超级...没错...港片迷。所以我总向他打听那些老港片的幕后故事

I loved Richard because Richard was one of these guys that had acted as, like, the Caucasian guy in a bunch of old Hong Kong movies. And I'm a huge Oh, yeah. Hong Kong movie fan. So I would ask him for all the dirt on these old Hong

是金刚电影。一头猛兽。他简直是个十足的野兽。

was Kong films. A beast. He was an absolute beast.

对啊。对啊。对啊。顺便

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. By the

说一句，乔尔在《自杀小队》里有个超搞笑的场景。他那段表现得特别滑稽——有个镜头他吐槽说'真不知道造了什么孽要跟你们这群白痴困在一起'，然后画面闪回到他辱骂

way, Joel had a really funny scene in the Suicide Squad. He got to be really funny with there's a scene where he's like, I don't know what I did to get stuck with you idiots. And then we flash back to him insulting a

哦那个被剪掉的片段笑死人了。正片里剪掉了但在花絮里。伊德里斯演的血腥运动问'你怎么沦落到这儿？沃勒为什么想弄死你？' 哦对。

Oh, that we cut from Fucking so funny. We cut from the film, but it's in the outtakes. Idris's character, Bloodsport, says, what landed you here? Why would Waller let you die? Oh, yeah.

然后镜头闪回你在办公室的时候，有天沃勒穿了件超难看的

And then you think back to when you were in the office and Waller came in one day wearing this really ugly

花衬衫

shirt with

全身都是花。你就对她说'沃勒，这衬衫什么鬼？活像小丑们集体在你身上'

flowers all over it. And you said to her, like, Waller, what's with that shirt? It looks like clowns took a

拉了泡屎。

shit all over you.

没错没错。她当场气炸了。你立刻板着脸装严肃，而经济人埃科诺莫斯笑到屁股都要掉了。

Yeah. Yeah. And she is so angry. And you go stone faced. And you're am Economos is laughing his ass off.

把她气疯了。

Her off.

维奥拉有时会让人不寒而栗。

Viola could be terrifying.

真的，她那种

Like, real like, she had

眼神就像

a stare that's like

天啊。她每次走到墙边时都特别吓人。没错没错。然后你会渐渐笑不出来，但你知道这就是她派你去送死的原因。

my god. The minute she comes to the wall, it's she's so scary. Yeah. Yeah. And then you just little by little stop laughing, but then you know that's why she sent you to die.

她就是那么刻薄。我爱死这点了。这绝对是官方设定。

She's that mean. I love that. I love that. That's canon.

这绝对是官方设定。

That's canon.

我们就这么定下来吧。还有这集里有个细节我得提一下——约翰在整个《和平使者》两季拍摄期间，我只见过他发火两次。第一次是第一季拍动作戏时，摄影师操作不当，离他的替身演员太近，结果撞到了她。

Let's make it canon. I also there is one thing in this episode that I should mention that John I've only seen John get upset in this during shooting twice during all two seasons of Peacemaker. The first was in season one. We were shooting an action sequence, and the camera operators were being unsafe. They were getting too close to his stunt partner, and they they heard her and, like, kinda ran into her.

之后又轻微撞到她两次，约翰就非常严厉地说：不能这样，你们得小心点，会伤到人的。另一次是他角色需要用文字拼写'you're'（你是），结果写成y o u fart（你放屁）。本来他想写'you're the best'（你是最棒的）。

And they had run into her a little bit, like, two more times, and John very sternly was like, you can't do that. You gotta be careful. You're gonna hurt somebody. And then the other time is when his character had to spell you're in text, y o u fart. When he As in you're the best.

他本来想写y o

When he meant y o

u fart（你放屁）。他本来想写y o u fart（你放屁）。对对，他其实是要写缩写形式。

u fart. When he meant y o u fart. Yeah. Yeah. He meant the contraction.

他可能也有点自闭症倾向。就像，约翰那样？约翰。是的。

He might be a little bit on the spectrum as well. Like, just John? John. Yeah.

是啊是啊。嗯，他确实。他特别较真。没错。

Yeah. Yeah. Well, he is. He's very particular. Yeah.

乔尔在看这集之前的节目时凑过来跟我说，当义警滔滔不绝讲他多爱乌鸦的时候...对，就是被问到动物的时候，他说这属于光谱的极端案例。乌鸦也是我的最爱之一。

Joel leaned over to me watching the show right before this when vigilante was going on about his love of crows Yeah. Being questioned about animals, and he said quite the extreme of the spectrum. Crows are also one of my favorites.

阿德里安娜，现在聊这个太早了。

Adrianne, it is too early for this.

我很喜欢动物，但我的喜欢程度大概就像...

I like animals a lot, but, like, I like animals as much as

很明显。像

Clearly. As

义警那样，而我比义警更喜欢乌鸦。我痴迷到...我已经登上乌鸦狂热列车了。

vigilante, and I like crows even more than vigilante does. I'm obsessed with And I I am on the crow train.

好吧。

Yeah.

我可以告诉你

And I can tell you

给我讲讲乌鸦狂热列车吧。

Tell me about the crow train.

你们没加入乌鸦粉丝团吗？天啊，我可知道超多关于乌鸦的冷知识。

You guys aren't on the crow train? Oh my god. I know so many crow facts.

你究竟为什么这么喜欢它们？

What what do you love so much about them?

好吧，首先——乌鸦听好了——它们比黑猩猩还聪明。没错，就是这样。

Okay. Well, first of all, crows Here we go. They are smarter than chimpanzees. Yeah. Okay?

它们能制造工具，还能超前规划三步行动，这种能力...

They can make tools that, like, they can think, like, three steps ahead of themselves. That's something that

对，它们会制定计划。

no Yeah. They plan.

是除了人类外其他灵长类都做不到的。网上有超棒的视频，乌鸦会在雪地里用自制小雪橇滑滑梯，反复爬上滑下。

No primate besides humans can do. Right. You know, you can see, you know, wonderful videos online of crows sledding down, in snow, making little sets into sled and sloothing up snow.

我打赌你肯定花了好多时间...

I just know that you've spent so much time

看这些视频。它们能永远记住你的脸！有项超有趣的研究：有人戴着尼克松面具欺负乌鸦，结果乌鸦会告诉其他同伴...（模仿乌鸦）'这活儿有意思，下个更有意思'

looking at these videos. You can, there's a great you know, they they remember your face forever. Like, they've done wonderful studies where, like, a guy will wear a Nixon mat mask and be mean to a crow, and they will then tell other people Fun job. With next fun job.

是啊，扮成尼克松...然后...

Yeah. Dressing up as Nixon Yeah. And, like

就像个懦夫似的

It's like some coward off

就是那些乌鸦，你知道的。

the crow, you know.

有个胆小的学生叫查德，我给你个赚额外学分的机会。知道吗？虽然只是最低工资，但我要你戴上这个尼克松面具，去用扫帚打乌鸦。这不是演戏，乌鸦会攻击我，然后你就用扫帚打它们。

Some coward student, Chad, I got I got something you can do for some extra credit. You know? It's just minimum wage, but, you know, I want you to put on this Nixon mask and go hit It's not acting, crows would act me and then hit him with a broom. Hit crows with a broom.

不，什么？不行。他们不是真打乌鸦，只是出去对乌鸦使坏。

No. What? No. They don't actually hit crows. They just go out in there and be mean to

我只知道，用他们的话说，'他们对乌鸦很恶劣'。

them. All I know is that, quote unquote, they were mean to crows.

对，他们很恶劣。

Yes. They're mean

我甚至还没说到重点——乌鸦会一辈子记住虐待它们的人。不仅如此，它们见到那人时还会告诉其他乌鸦他很坏，然后那些乌鸦又会告诉更多乌鸦。真的？消息就这么传开。所以这家伙从殴打乌鸦的乡下地方...

to I'm not even haven't even gotten to the point that's important, which is that crows will remember for the rest of their lives that man that was mean to them. But not only that, they will tell other crows when they see that man that he's mean, and then that those crows will tell other crows that that man is mean. Really? And it word travels. So the guy will go from a rural area where he beat the crows.

是啊。

Yeah.

转移到另一个戴着...

And to another guy wearing

尼克松面具的人。和乌鸦有关。

a Nixon. With the crow.

乌鸦还没聪明到能分辨两个戴尼克松面具的混蛋。但很快尼克松会出现在市中心，他一出现，所有乌鸦就会开始尖叫，警告其他乌鸦有个混蛋来了。

They're not smart enough to know between two fuckers wearing a Nixon mask. But then then Nixon will be downtown, and he'll start coming, and all the crows will start chirping, warning the other crows that a dick is coming down

街上。

the street.

狡猾的迪克。危险。没错。那是真的。狡猾的迪基。

Tricky dick. Danger. Yeah. That's real. Tricky dicky.

狡猾的没错。所以那就是乌鸦的真相。想听另一个吗？好啊。

Tricky yeah. So so that's that's a crow truth. You wanna hear another one? Yeah.

好吧。更多乌鸦的真相。那是什么？

Okay. More crow truths. What is that?

英格兰有些乌鸦会收集这些坚果。

There are crows in England that have these nuts.

探索詹姆斯的频谱。对。对。

Exploring James' spectrum. Yeah. Yeah.

所以在

So In

如果有人想知道义警的起源，

case anyone wanted to know where vigilante came from,

它直接来自

it's straight from

詹姆斯·古恩的大脑。

the brain of James Gunn.

伙计们，我们在讨论乌鸦。

Guys, we're talking about crow.

得了吧。

Come on.

所以它们可以拿一个回形针，把它弄直，然后如果另一只乌鸦很讨厌，它可以用回形针把它刺死。乌鸦会这么做吗？我没说它们真的这么做。我说它们有能力这么做。在英国有一种非常坚硬的坚果，长在某些树上，这些乌鸦自己打不开。

So so They can take a paper clip, straighten it out, and then if another crow is being a dick, he can stab him to death with it. Crows do that? I didn't say they do do it. I said they could. There are are nuts that are these really hard nuts in England that grow grow on something that these crows can't break into by themselves.

不够强壮所以它们学会的做法是，它们拿着坚果，飞到那个叫什么来着的东西顶上？

Not strong So what they've learned to do is they take the nuts. They go to the top of this what do you call it?

像是路灯柱之类的东西。

Like a light post or something like that.

对，像是交通灯。它们把坚果扔下去？它们把坚果扔到街上，这样车子经过时就会等等，压碎等等。

Yeah, like traffic lights. They drop it? They drop it on the street so that cars come by and Wait, crush wait.

乔尔，让他妈的等等。

Joel, fucking let him Wait.

车子压碎坚果。乌鸦飞下来。我爱和平使者。我更爱乌鸦。那只乌鸦飞下来。

Cry the cars crush it. The crows come down. I love peacemaker. I love crows more. The the the crow comes down.

它站在人行道上，和其他等着过马路的人一起，看着红绿灯上的小人，你知道的，显示不要走，等到绿灯亮起，绿灯一亮，那只小乌鸦就走过马路，吃掉坚果。它们整天都在干这事。这难道不疯狂吗？它们真是太厉害了。它们是最棒的。

It stands on the sidewalk with all the people waiting to cross the crosswalk, watches the little red man on the light, you know, saying don't walk, waits for it to turn green, and the minute it turns green, the little crow walks across the screen, eats the nut. And they do that all fucking day long. Is that crazy or what? They're so oh my god. They're the greatest.

我

I

我刚在犹他州的拱门国家公园，当时在一个停车区准备徒步去拍些照片。有只乌鸦就蹲在饮水机顶上，一副悠然自得的样子。人们从旁边走过，它就那么待着。我朋友内特走过去，乌鸦也没飞走。内特按了下按钮，水就流出来了。那乌鸦简直像在说'他妈的终于来了'。

was just in Arches National Park in Utah, and I was in a parking area ready to go out on a hike to take some photos. There was a crow that was just sitting on top of the water fountain, just kinda And people were walking by, and it's just sitting there, and my friend Nate kinda walked up to it. The crow did not fly away or anything. And Nate just, like, pushed the button, and the water starts coming out. And the crow's like, fucking finally.

然后它开始喝水玩水。它刚才就一直蹲那儿等着

And it starts drinking water and getting in the water. And, like, it was just sitting there waiting

等着等着有人过来然后说'嘿，我知道'

Waiting for for somebody to somebody to come and be like, hey, I know

你们这些混蛋有手。帮个忙会死啊

you fuckers have hands. How about helping

是吧？嘿，手指操蛋鬼。不对不是手指操蛋鬼。

you out here? Yeah. Hey, finger fucker. Yeah. Not finger fucker.

哇哦。不是。它们管我们叫

Woah. No. Like, they call us

'有手指的家伙'

Guy with a finger.

那是乌鸦用的种族歧视词。像'手指操蛋鬼'。或者'指头精'。它们

That's a racist term that a Like crow calls Finger fucker. Like finglies. They

管我们叫

call us

'手指操蛋鬼'。懂吧？叫那边那个'指头精'过来。对。让它来

Finger fucker. You know, getting one of those Finglies over there to Yeah. Do it for

然后他就那样，我就等在这儿，总会有人注意到

And he was just like, I'll just wait here and someone will pick up on

你。是啊，芬格利家的人会过来干他们该干的破事。对。他们也就这点儿用处了。

you. Yeah, Finglies will come by and do what they need to do. Yeah. The only thing they're fucking good for.

没错。真高兴我们选了这条

Yeah. I'm so glad we went down this,

弯路。现在欢迎收听。

curve. And now Welcome.

这下我要着迷了。是啊。

Now I'm gonna be obsessed. Yeah.

对。欢迎来到《和平使者》播客。

Yeah. Welcome to the Peacemaker podcast.

现在是和平随想时间。欢迎收听新一期的《和平随想》，我将在此分享对剧中片段毫无保留的见解。此刻我们身处第三集，穿越QUC进入了平行宇宙的和平使者世界，跌跌撞撞来到阿格斯，遇见了活蹦乱跳、口齿不清的里克·弗莱格二世。我太爱乔尔这个表演时刻了，因为他演绎的角色与里克·弗莱格二世截然相反。

And now peace thoughts. Welcome to another edition of Peace Thoughts, where I share my unfiltered thoughts on moments throughout the series. So here we find ourselves in the third episode. We have traveled through the QUC into the alternate Peacemaker universe to stumble into Argus to find an alive, stumbly, mealy mouthed version of Rick Flag Junior. I love this moment for Joel because he gets to play a character strongly opposed to his character, Rick Flag Junior.

最妙的是他能自由探索这个情境，而和平使者只是茫然接受这一切——这家伙居然活着？我该怎么面对？

And the the great thing about it is he gets the freedom to explore that space, where Peacemaker is just kinda taking this all in of, like, this guy is alive. How do I cope with this?

怎么了克里斯？

What's going on, Chris?

老天爷啊。

Jesus Christ.