#280 Aytekin Tank：如何利用AI代理全面自动化您的客户服务

Jotform已有二十年历史。我们拥有3000万用户，为人们托管着5000万份表单。如今我们已成为一家大公司，拥有200名员工组成的支持团队，同时也面临着巨大的支持需求。

Jotform is two decades old. We have 30,000,000 users. We are hosting 50,000,000 forms for people. So we are now this large company, and we have this support team of 200 employees. And we also have like a large support load.

我们每天要处理超过2000张工单。于是我们决定使用自己的产品。实际启用AI后，问题解决率约达30%。我们的愿景是让每个组织、每个小企业都拥有自己的AI代理——这样即使在凌晨三点，你也能与商家对话。获取信息、购物、预约——所有你能授权AI代理完成的事务，它都能处理。

Like we receive over 2,000 tickets every day. So we decided to use our own product. And when we actually started using our own product, the resolution rate with AI was around 30%. The vision is having every organization, every small business have their own AI agents so that when you want to talk to that business in the middle of the night, like 3AM, you can talk to that business. You can get information, buy stuff and, you know, set up appointments, whatever you need to do, like, you know, all the tools that you could make available to your AI agent could be done by the AI agent.

本期节目由Extreme Networks赞助，这家公司正通过AI驱动的网络自动化技术彻底改善客户体验。Extreme推动着AI网络与安全的融合，改变企业连接和保护网络的方式，提供更快的性能、更强的安全性和无缝用户体验。访问extremenetworks.com了解更多。Extreme Networks官网allruntogether.com。

Our sponsor for this episode is Extreme Networks, the company radically improving customer experiences with AI powered automation for networking. Extreme is driving the convergence of AI networking and security to transform the way businesses connect and protect their networks to deliver faster performance, stronger security, and a seamless user experience. Visit extremenetworks.com to learn more. That's Extreme Networks allruntogether.com to learn more.

二十年前我创立Jotform时，正在一家媒体公司担任开发。当时我们运营着100多个网站，我不断为编辑们创建各种在线表单——联系表单、调查问卷、支付表单等。当我决定创业时，表单成为我的方向，因为当时找不到能替代我手动工作的现成产品。

So I started two decades ago. And the reason I started JotForm was before JotForm I was working for a media company and we had like over a 100 websites. And I was a developer and I was constantly creating these online forms for our editors. And I was creating all these different kinds of forms like contact forms, surveys, questionnaires, payment forms. And then I decided that, like, you know, when I start my company, forms could be the, stuff I could do because I I couldn't find a product that could actually take away from me, like just, I had to, like, do it manually.

于是二十年前我创建了这个易用的表单构建器Jotform。我们始终是自筹资金的公司，没有外部投资。过去二十年稳步成长。关于如何涉足AI领域：几年前我们开始举办技术黑客周活动，产品团队会在期间构思各种创意原型。

And then I started Jotform, I created this easy to use form builder two decades ago. We have been a bootstrap company since then, still we are bootstrap, no outside investors. And we have been steadily growing over the last two decades. And how we got into AI, I can talk a little bit about that. A couple of years ago, one of the things we do at Jotform is we have these technical hack weeks.

两年前某次黑客周上，有团队开发出通过语音填写表单的创意。他们利用AI理解问题、获取答案，在紧张周期内就实现了原型。这让我们看到了可能性，于是启动了相关产品开发。

During these hack weeks, our product teams, they try to come up with different ideas, different product ideas, prototypes, or different technologies. And some of our teams, like two years ago, some of our teams actually built this idea that you can actually fill out forms by voice, right? And just because can use AI to understand and ask questions and then get the answers and just, even during like this hectic, they were able to actually implement prototypes. So we saw that this was possible. So we started working on this product.

但在构建这个AI表单填写产品时，我们发现多数测试用户将其用于客服场景——作为网站聊天机器人。除了表单功能，他们还利用知识库功能（如RAG技术），通过上传资料或网站URL让AI学习。用户发现它能出色地回答客户问题。

But what happened was, while we were building this product, like, you know, filling out forms with AI, with AI agents, that, we discovered that, like, most of our beta users were actually using it for different purpose. They were actually using it for customer service. They were mostly, like, they were putting it on their web website as chatbots. Because they discovered that in addition to form answering features, we all say that these knowledge based features, like Rag and just uploading all this knowledge or giving your website URL so that it can learn from it. And they discovered that it's just like it can really give good answers, provide customer service, answer their questions.

有位测试用户举办大型音乐节时，虽然官网有所有问题答案，但人们仍通过聊天机器人咨询——因为现代人不愿阅读，只想快速获取答案。我们的AI能回答'演唱会票价多少''哪里停车''帐篷区位置'等各种问题。

And just one of our beta users, they were doing this huge event, like a festival, and they were getting all kinds of questions. And all those questions, the answers for those questions were actually available on the website. But people were actually asking to chatbot because people don't read and they're busy, don't wanna read stuff, they just wanna get answers quickly. And our agent was able to answer questions like, what's the price of this concert? Like, where can I park my car?

短时间内这个音乐节收到海量咨询。通常这类活动不会配备大量员工，但AI可以无限扩展——用户无需长时间排队等待。观察到这个现象后，我们立即将产品转型为客服工具。

Where can I put my tent? Things like that, like just all kinds of wild questions. And it was answering them really well. And because this was a festival, in a short amount of time, they were receiving huge number of questions. And like in a normal settings, even though this is like a large festival, they don't have a lot of employees.

两个月前我们正式发布Jotform AI代理，现在用户们正通过它高效获取问题解答。

So if you think about it, it can scale, the AI can scale, like you don't have to wait on the line for a long time. So they were able to get answers to that. So once we actually looked at what's happening, we pivoted our product and we started calling it a customer service product. And we are calling it Jot From AI agents. We released it two months ago, and people are using and really getting their questions answered.

实际上，我们平台上最大的用户是Jotform。Jotform如今已有二十年历史，拥有3000万用户，托管着约5000万份表单。我们已成为一家大型企业，并拥有一支200人的客服团队。

And actually, the biggest user in our platform is Jotform. So Jotform is like now two decades old. We have 30,000,000 users. We are hosting like 50,000,000 forms for people. So we are now this large company and we have this support team of 200 employees.

因此我们也面临巨大的客服压力——每天要处理超过2000张工单。于是我们决定使用自家产品。刚开始采用AI时，问题解决率约为30%。我们当时在对比人工客服与AI客服的应答质量，初始阶段就是30%。

And so we also have like a large support load. Like we receive over 2,000 tickets every day, like support tickets every day. So we decided to use our own product and when we actually started using our own product, the resolution rate with AI was around 30%. So we are actually comparing the answers of our human team with the AI team. And we started 30%.

我们抽调了20名客服人员专门审核AI的应答，标记是否有效解决问题。通过对比人工客服的标准来判断AI是否真正解决用户问题，这确保了评估的准确性。两个月前随着Jotform AI助手上线时，解决率从30%提升到了现在的70%。

And basically, actually got like 20 of our support employees started actually reviewing all these AI answers, and then they started kind of flagging them result or not result. So we decide if it's resolved by comparing to how a support employee would ask for that question. And because of that, we are pretty sure that we are really measuring it correctly. And that in the early days, like essentially we launched this like two months ago as well, like during the launch of Jotform AI agents. And during this two months, we started with 30% and now we actually reached 70% resolution rates.

AI助手确实能解答这些问题。实现这一突破的关键在于重构了RAG嵌入系统和数据库——我们改用Gina产品处理嵌入。产品团队针对各类场景（如修改邮箱、创建表单等）开发解决方案，并通过API与AI助手对接。AI助手的核心优势在于不仅能对话，更能执行实际操作。

And the AI agent can actually answer those questions. And the way we were able to do that was basically like we had to rewrite our rag embedding system, the database, because we saw that it wasn't handling it right, like we moved to a product called Gina for our Rag embedding. Our product teams actually pick different topics, like someone is trying to change their email address, someone is trying to create a form by asking to AI, all different kind of questions. So basically they implemented these solutions, and then we connected them with API to the AI agents. And basically what makes this powerful is AI agent What makes AI agents and like regular chat, LLMs, chatbots is What makes them different is AI agents can actually do things as well.

它们不仅能回答问题，更能执行任务。比如Jotform AI助手拥有多种工具：可安排会议、连接Google日历或Calendly，通过语音或聊天接受预约。在修改邮箱的场景中，AI会调用API验证用户身份，处理验证邮件，整个流程都能通过自然对话完成。

They don't just answer questions, they can do things. In Jotform AI agents, for example, there are lots of tools that the AI agents can use. They can actually do appointments, they can connect to your Google Calendar, Calendly, to be able to take appointments by voice or on a chatbot. So they can make calls for an API to be able to answer questions. In the case of like changing an email address, so they are actually making an API call to authenticate the user to be able to make sure that this is the real user that the AI agent is talking to, and also like taking their new email address, maybe if there's a verification email sent to the old email address, then they have to enter some numbers as well, but this is all done conversationally and the AI agent can actually use these tools.

正是这些工具让我们从30%提升到70%。其中一半进步来自优化RAC系统和知识库——我们补充了大量缺失的用户指南，因为AI依赖这些知识；另一半则来自实现这些能让AI直接解决问题的工具。

So because of all these tools, we were able to go from 30% to 70%. I would say half of the improvements came from improving our RAC system, improving our knowledge base. Like we had to write tons of new user guides because basically our AI agent is using our knowledge, our user guides. And we discovered that our user guides was missing like so much. And then once we added all these missing pieces, the AI agent was able to answer much better, but half of that came from that knowledge, but half of some actually came from like implementing all those tools, the AI agent users to be able to resolve the problems of the user.

达到70%很不容易，但我们相信还能冲击80%。不过超过80%后难度会剧增，这没关系——AI助手可以将对话转接给人工客服。

And so that's really good, getting to 70%, it wasn't easy, but it was possible. So we envisioned that we are gonna be able to go to 80% as well, like we can see that we will be, but after 80% it's just gonna get so much harder and harder, but it's okay because it's always like, so one of the things that the AI agents can do is they can actually like transfer the chat to a human agent.

而且

And

若能处理80%的问题，剩下20%转人工也是可接受的。另一个发现是：独立于原工单系统部署AI后，每日2000+的工单量下降了25%至1500，且持续下降。当然它不会完全取代原有系统。

if we can handle 80% and if we have to transfer 20%, we are fine with that, that's still better. And another thing we discovered was like, so we implemented this system separate from our support ticket system. And our support ticket system was We were getting like over 2,000 tickets every day. And that actually went like, went down like 25% to 1,500 a day, and it's even going further down now. But it doesn't like, you know, it doesn't completely replace that.

我们还发现：由于客服系统显示平均响应时间从最初的1.5小时降至现在的30分钟，但很多人仍不愿等待——他们要么需要即时答复，要么直接放弃咨询。因此实际上我们现在服务了更多用户，日均服务量持续增长。

So what we discovered was some people, because we are also showing our average response time on our support system that says like, average response time was one and a half hours when we started this, but because now the AI agents are helping, actual response time went down to thirty minutes now, like just much faster. But even though it's thirty minutes, like many people, they don't wanna wait thirty minutes for an answer. They either wanna get like an instant answer or they don't wanna just bother with support at all. So that's another thing, like we are actually supporting more people now. On average, like we are supporting every day.

过去我们每天处理约2000个查询和工单，现在支持线程数量已增至3500条。其中约2000条来自AI系统，1500条由人工客服处理。实际上我们提供了更多支持服务，但得益于AI助手，服务质量反而提升了。能亲自使用自家产品真是乐趣无穷。我还没——

In the past we were responding to like 2,000 queries, 2,000 support tickets, but now we are having like 3,500 the support threads. And about 2,000 is actually coming from the AI and then 1,500 is on our human support. So we are actually providing more support to people, but we are able to provide a better support thanks to the AI agents. And it's just so much fun to be able to use our own product. I haven't

没错。让我回到最初的AI应用场景——用语音填写表格。

Yeah. Stated Let me go back to the original AI application was in using voice to fill out forms.

是的，这正是我们两年前启动项目的原因。我们当时讨论说表格太枯燥了，或许用户会想通过电话语音或网站语音填写表格，又或者更愿意与聊天机器人对话而非填写无聊的表格。这就是我们的起点。

Yeah. That's actually how we started this project two years ago. We talked that, hey, forms are boring. Maybe you wanna be able to fill out a form on the phone or over voice on a website, or maybe you just wanna talk to a chatbot as opposed to just filling out this boring form. And that's how we started.

当我们发布这个功能时，只有约10%的测试用户真正用于此目的，90%的测试者却将其用于完全不同的场景。我们完全没预料到那会成为产品的主要用例。

And then when we released that, only like ten percent of the beta users were actually using it for that, and 90% of our beta users were actually using it for completely different purpose. Like we never thought that that would be the main use case for this product.

具体如何运作？AI会主动询问'您叫什么名字？姓氏是什么？'这样跟踪表格提问吗？还是用户看着表格主动告知'名字克雷格，姓氏史密斯'，再由AI定位填写框？需要给AI多少操作指

How does that work? I mean, does the AI ask like what's your first name? What's your last name? Does it does it track the form and ask questions or are you looking at the form as the user and telling it first name Craig, last name Smith, and and it finds the box. I mean, how how how much instruction do you need

令呢？比如这是着陆页，我可以在这里创建智能体。我要创建语音助手，假设现在要为私人教练创建预约表单代理。后台就会生成这个代理程序。

to give the AI? Here, this is the landing page, and I can create an agent here. And I will create this voice agent. And then I wanna create let's say, I wanna create an appointment form appointment agent for a personal trainer personal trainer. And it's gonna create the agent in the back end.

本质上它会进行一些调研来生成优质代理，这样用户无需过多调试就能获得实用功能。现在可以看到已创建了'Alex预约安排'。这里是AI代理构建器，可以调整各种设置，比如声音选项。

Basically, it's doing some research to be able to create a good one so that you don't have to play with it a lot to be able to have something useful. So now we can see that I have this Alex appointment scheduled. So this is the AI agent builder. This is kind of a place where I can actually play with settings like, you know, the voices.

JotForm AI代理是处理JotForm AI的强大工具，没错。

JotForm AI agents are powerful tools that handle JotForm AI yep.

好的。这里可以选择声音。

Okay. Good. So I can pick a voice here.

JotForm AI代理是处理——JotForm AI代理是处理诸如回答问题等任务的强大工具。

Jotform AI agents are powerful tools that handle- Jotform AI agents are powerful tools that handle tasks like answering questions.

我可以操作它，这样我就能实际训练我的知识库，在这里添加信息，而且它还真的创建了一个表单，可能也为我创建了一个表单。现在我们在这里，可以实际看到这个表单，我可以查看一下。我得分享这个标签页。它之所以创建这个表单，是因为我说了‘个人训练预约表单’，预约助手，它在JotForms表单构建器上创建了这个表单。我们现在就在JotForms表单构建器上。

I can play with it, but So I can actually train my knowledge base, add information here, and it actually also created a form, probably created a form for me as well. So here we are, we can actually see the form here and I can take a look at the form. I'll have to share this tab. So it actually created this form because I said personal training appointment form, appointment agent, it created this form on JotForms form builder. This is JotForms form builder we are on now.

它创建了这个表单，我可以查看，你知道，我可以修改上面的内容，但我觉得这已经相当不错了。是的，所以我会保留这个表单。现在我要回到助手构建器，实际上我已经准备好测试它了。是的。

And it created this form, and I can take a look at and, you know, I could change things on this, but I I feel like this is pretty good. Yep. So I will keep this form. So now I'm going back to the agent builder and just, you know, I'm ready to test it actually. Yep.

我们可以直接在这里测试，或者我可以单独打开它。好的，让我们试试看。

We could just test it here or I could just open it by itself, here. Okay. Let's try it.

你好。我是Alex，你的AI助手，负责安排个人训练课程。今天有什么可以帮您的吗？

Hello. I am Alex, your AI agent for scheduling personal training sessions. How may I assist you today?

嗨，Alex。我想预约一个时间。

Hi, Alex. I would like to set up an appointment.

听起来是个好计划。我在这里随时准备帮你顺利完成预约。为了继续安排你的预约，请问可以告诉我你的全名吗？

That sounds like a great plan. I'm here with you and ready to help get everything set up smoothly. To proceed with scheduling your appointment, may I have your full name, please?

Aitikin Tank。

Aitikin Tank.

感谢提供你的名字，Aitikin。我们进展得很顺利。还差一点点。为了继续，能否请你逐个字母拼出你的电子邮箱地址以确保准确性？

Thanks for sharing your name, Aitikin. We're making good progress here. Just a bit more to go. To continue, could you please share your email address by spelling it out letter by letter to ensure accuracy?

Aytekin@jotform.com。

Aytekin@jotform.com.

收到了。感谢这么快就提供了你的邮箱，Aitikin。我们快完成了。再确认一下就能最终确定你的预约。为了确保无误，能否请你逐个字母拼出你的电子邮箱地址？

Got it. Thanks for sharing your email so quickly, Aitikin. We're almost there. Just a little more to finalize your appointment. To make sure I have it right, could you please spell out your email address letter by letter?

例如，是aEETEKIN@J0TF0RM.com这个邮箱吗？

For example, is it aEETEKIN@J0TF0RM.com?

是AYTEKIN@Jotform.com。

It's AYTEKIN@Jotform.com.

感谢你如此清晰地确认，Aytaiken。我们正在为你妥善安排一切。为确保无误，能否请你逐个字母拼写一下你的电子邮箱地址？

Thanks for confirming that so clearly, Aytaiken. We're getting everything lined up nicely for you. To ensure I have it right, could you please spell out your email address for me letter by letter?

Aytekin@jotform.com。

Aytekin@jotform.com.

dotform dot com，是这样吗？

Dotform dot com. Is that correct?

是的。

Yes.

明白了，Aiteken。感谢你如此清晰地提供这一细节。你的预约事宜进展顺利。接下来，能否请你提供你的电话号码？

Got it, Aiteken. Thanks for sharing that detail so clearly. Everything's shaping up well for your appointment. To proceed, could you please share your phone number?

是(415) 555-5555。

It's (415) 555-5555.

感谢你流畅地提供电话号码，Aitikin。我们正在为你妥善安排一切。确认一下，你的电话号码是41555555吗？

Thanks for sharing your phone number so smoothly, Aitikin. We're getting everything lined up nicely for you. To confirm, is your phone number 41555555?

是的。

Yes.

太好了。感谢你为我们确认这一点，Aytikin。我们几乎准备好推进你的预约了。为了继续，能否请你告知一个方便的预约日期和时间？

Perfect. Thanks for confirming that for us, Aytikin. We're almost ready to move forward with your appointment. To proceed, could you please let me know a convenient date and time for your appointment?

明天上午9点。

Tomorrow, 9AM.

明白了。明天上午9点是个不错的时间。我们正在为你妥善安排一切。确认一下，预约时间定于东部夏令时4月23日上午09:00。你确认这个时间吗？

Got it. Tomorrow at 9AM sounds like a great time. We're getting everything set up just right for you. To confirm, the appointment is set for April 23 at 09:00 in the morning, Eastern Daylight Time. Do you confirm this

正确。

Correct.

你的选项是，是的，我确认。

Your options are, yes, I confirm.

是的，我确认。还有，Sorn，我觉得它可能会卡住。对，有时候会卡住，让我再给你看些别的。

Yes, I confirm. And, yeah, Sorn, I think it's might get stuck. Yeah. Sometimes it gets stuck, let me let me also show you something else.

不过它填好表格了吗？

Did it fill in the form, though?

看看。我们来看看。是的，填好了。我们来看看这里的对话。可以看到它确实正确获取了我的名字，这其实挺难的。

Take a look. Let's take a look. Yes, it did. Let's take a look at the conversation here. So we can see here it actually got my name correctly, which was actually hard.

就像我们之前不得不专门训练它识别我的名字，因为这不是个美国名字，但它正确获取了我的名字、邮箱地址、电话号码和预约信息。再看看，对话内容就在这里。对。关于我之前提到的工具，基本上如果我是个私人教练，用Google Calendar管理预约，我可以直接连接这个系统，马上就能使用。

Like we had to kind of train my name on it, just because it's nothing American name, but it got my name, my email address, phone number and the appointment correctly. And let's see, and the conversation is actually here. Right. Yeah. And so one of the things that, like I was talking about the tools, so basically what I could do is if I'm a personal trainer and if I'm using Google Calendar to keep track of my appointments, I could actually connect to this and I'm ready.

我可以立即使用这个产品，选择其中一种方式，比如获取一个电话号码，每月只需10美元。如果有网站，可以在网站上放聊天机器人。也可以用短信，获取一个短信号码或连接WhatsApp账户，就能处理所有...

I'm ready to use this product right away and just, I could use one of the options, like I could get a phone number, buy a phone number. It's just $10 a month. If I have a website, I could put a chatbot on my website. I could use text, just get a texting number or a WhatsApp, connect to my WhatsApp account, and be be able to, you know, take up all the

你们是基于哪些模型来构建这个的？

Is this what models are you building this on?

是的。我想说的是，这就是基于AI构建产品的美妙之处。因为通常来说，我已经做了二十年的产品开发，有个概念叫软件熵。就像软件实际上会随着时间变得越来越糟，有些功能突然就失效了。你会遇到莫名其妙的故障，明明不该发生的，对吧？

Yeah. I mean, so that's the great thing about building products on top of AI. Because usually, and I've been building a product for two decades, and there's this thing called software entropy. And it's just like software actually gets worse over time, like just stuff stops working. You get stuff broken, like just out of blue for some reason, like it shouldn't happen, right?

但有了AI，就像是脚下的地基在不断变好。我们做这个已经两年了。除了我们自己的努力，最大的改进其实来自我们使用的LLM聊天机器人。现在我们刚从4.0升级到4.1版本，这个改动就带来了显著提升。连我们的客服代理切换新版本后，性能都提高了好几个点。

But with AI, it's actually like the ground below you is actually getting better. So we have been working on this for two years now. And in addition to all the stuff we have done, one of the biggest improvements actually came from the LLMs, the chat bots we are using. So right now we just switched from four point to 4.1, and even that made a big difference. Even our support agent had like a couple of point improvements just by moving to a new agent.

我们主要使用两种API接口。一个是OpenAI 4.1，另一个是Gemini 2.0。我们正在测试Gemini 2.5版本，预计也会带来改进。虽然用户可以自选模型，但我们更倾向同时使用多个模型——这样通过数据看板，我们可以对比不同模型的性能表现。通常我们会让50%的对话分流测试。

And so we are basically using two different APIs. One of them is OpenAI 4.1, and the other one is Gemini two point zero. And we are also moving to 2.5 on Gemini as well. We are just testing that out, and we see that that's also gonna improve things. So we also give people options to use which model to use, but we actually prefer to use multiple models because this actually gives us an ability, we have dashboards, we can actually compare the performance of different models to each other so that we will usually run 50% of the conversations.

目前约有一万用户，但最大用户是我们自己的JetForm客服团队。通过并行运行两个模型对比性能，有时问题出在提示词上——不同模型需要不同的提示词设计。

We have about 10,000 users right now, but our biggest user is ourselves, like JetForm's own support. And so we are actually comparing the performance of different models. That's why we always run like two of them together. If you see And sometimes it's just our prompts. We have to write different prompts for different models.

不能直接把OpenAI 4.1的提示词套用在Gemini上。有时需要修改提示词，有时问题不在模型而在我们自己。正因为持续对比，才能发现某个模型表现更优。

We cannot just write prompts for OpenAI 4.1 and then use that for Gemini. Gemini, we have to change things. Sometimes we have to improve our prompts. Sometimes the default is not with the LLM, it's actually our fault. But because we are always comparing them to each other, we can discover that one model is actually performing much better.

当发现某个模型明显更好时，我们会把90%的对话迁移过去。但目前Gemini和OpenAI ChatGPT性能相近，都比旧版强很多，所以保持五五分流。

And then if you see something like that, we will actually move most of the conversations, like 90% of conversations to some model. But right now, performance of Gemini and the OpenAI ChachiPT is very similar. They are very good compared to the older versions. So there we are keeping it 50%.

还有个问题。关于你们连接的知识库——是可以在平台上自行设置，还是需要联系JotForm定制开发？比如我想为播客建聊天机器人，导入所有节目内容，这个能自助完成吗？还是需要你们搭建RAG系统？

Yeah, another question. Me, the knowledge base that you're attached to. Can you do set up your knowledge base on the platform or is that something you need to contract JotForm to do in a in a bespoke way. I mean, if if if I wanted to build a chatbot for my podcast and load all my podcast episodes into it, Is that something I could do on Jotform or would I have to contact you guys and, you know, have you build a rag system?

完全是SaaS服务。你可以自助添加知识库，上传文件，链接网站或YouTube频道获取文字稿作为播客知识库。每月100次对话内免费，超出后价格也很亲民。所有功能都可以自助完成。

It's all SaaS service. You just go there, you add your own knowledge base, you upload your files, you can link to your website, you can link to your YouTube channel to be able to get the transcripts and use that as knowledge base from your podcast. So basically it's all SaaS service. It's all free up to 100 conversations per month, it's all free. And then if you get over 100 conversation per month, it's still very affordable prices, but it's also SaaS service, you can build your knowledge base.

我们还做了个创新功能：你可以通过对话训练AI代理。想象雇佣客服人员时，你会直接扔文档让他自学吗？当然不会——你会亲自培训，传授公司文化、服务标准等重要事项。现在你可以用同样方式教导AI代理。

And one of the things we did was actually, we actually made it so that you can actually talk to your own AI agent to be able to train it. So if you think about it, let's say you hired a support employee, would you just dump all the documents on the support employee and say, okay, learn this and go talk to the customers? Or would you actually talk to that person, like train that person, talk about your culture, how you talk to customers, like what's important for you, things like that. You would probably talk to this person, right? The same way you can actually teach your agent.

我们有一个名为‘教导你的智能体’的板块。你可以与你的智能体对话，训练它。在训练部分，我提到过知识库。你可以在这里上传文件、输入知识、链接到你的网站或上传文件。

So we have a section called teach your agent. You can have conversations with your agents, you can train your agent. In the training section, I was talking about the knowledge base. You can upload files here. You can enter knowledge, you can link to your website, upload files.

好的。关于上传到知识库，有没有上传量的限制，比如多少页或...

Yeah. On uploading to the knowledge base, is there a limit as to how much you can upload, how many pages or

实际上是有上限的，具体数值在我们的定价方案中。我不记得确切数字了，但我们为用户提供了很大的空间。如果你只添加少量知识库内容，其实不需要用到向量数据库。具体数值我记不清了，不想给出错误信息，但在某个阈值之前，你的知识基本上就是直接提供给我的提示词。

There's actually there's a limit. It's it's available in our pricing. I I don't remember the exact list, but we give a lot of limit a lot of space for our users. And what happens is that if you if you add like small amounts of knowledge base, you actually don't need to use the rack, right? So I believe it's about, I can't remember the exact number, so I don't wanna give the wrong number, but until some point, your knowledge is actually basically giving me the prompt.

但如果你真的上传大量数据到知识库，系统会自动将你的数据切换到向量数据库，以便正确查询问题。因为AI的上下文窗口有限，比如Jotron技术支持有数百份用户指南，你提问时不需要检索全部内容。这一切都是自动处理的，你只需输入数据，我们会为你处理后续事宜。

But if you actually load lots of data, lots of knowledge to your knowledge base, then what's gonna happen is that we are gonna automatically actually switch your data to the rack, the vector database to be able to query the questions correctly. Because the context window for LMS, like the AI is limited, so we don't wanna give everything about like, with Jotron support, we have hundreds and hundreds of user guides and you don't wanna look up everything when you're asking a question about some specific questions. Yeah, it's all happening, you just enter your data and then we take care of all those things for you.

好的，太棒了。

Yeah, great.

这就是教导智能体板块的基本功能。晚上好，很高兴与你连线。想象我们正边喝茶边聊天，请随时告诉我你的想法。比如我可以教导我的智能体：你能改名叫约翰吗？它现在叫亚历克斯。好的。

And yeah, this is the teacher agent section, basically good evening, it's wonderful to connect with you. Imagine if you're sharing a cozy cup of tea as we chat, feel free to tell me what's going on your mind. So I could teach my agent, can you change your name to John? So its name is Alex. Okay.

它表示可以改名。当前名字是亚历克斯。更新后的名字是约翰。确认。我的名字已更改为约翰。

So basically it says that it can change its name. And right now it's Alex. Updated name is John. Yes, proceeds. My name has been changed to John.

如你所见，这里显示智能体名字已经改变。如果你看这里，现在显示约翰。我还可以训练它，比如：我周二不工作因为要处理预约。我周二不工作。

So as we can see, it's actually here, we can see that the name of the agent is now different. If you go here, it's now John. So I can train it as well. Like, I don't work on Tuesdays because it's taking appointment. I don't work on Tuesdays.

明白。

Right.

假设它能处理这类日程安排。当然希望它不会搞错，显然我需要测试确认。我们也可以检查知识库看是否添加了这条规则，虽然这里没看到，但我会当场测试看看效果。

Let's say if it will be able to take care of that scheduling purposes. Hopefully, it's not gonna do that. Obviously, I will have to test it to see if it really made but that we could also check our knowledge base to see if added this to our knowledge base somewhere, maybe, I don't see it here, but maybe I will just test it here. Let's see.

欢迎回来iTechInTank。我是约翰，您的AI助手。今天我能如何协助您安排个人训练课程？

Welcome back iTechInTank. I am John, your AI agent. How may I assist you with scheduling your personal training session today?

你们周二工作吗？

Do you work on Tuesdays?

周二绝对是专注训练的好日子。

Tuesdays can definitely be a great day to focus on your training.

看起来它没理解。所以有时候某些功能可能不完善，但我可以这样做：直接打开工具看看预约选项——这里其实在用表单，可能因此没生效，我没用预约工具。如果用了预约工具，我就能直接编辑时间设置成周二不工作。我可以这样处理。

Looks like it doesn't get that. So, you know, it's sometimes just some of the things may not be, but one of the things I could do is I could just go to a tool, let's see appointments are here. It's actually using form probably why it's not doing, I'm not using the appointment tools. And if I was using the appointment tool, I could actually edit the time here and say, not work on Tuesdays. I could handle it this way.

对。说到训练，这问题我遇到过。我试过搭建聊天机器人，根据后端模型不同，总会产生大量冗余的空洞问候语。比如'今天过得怎样？'

Right. Say on the training, this is a problem I've had. I've played around with building chat bots and depending on the model on the back end, there's a lot of extra empty language that the chatbot adds. Know? How are you today?

明白吗？还有'有什么能帮您？'之类的。我不需要这些废话。就想知道训练系统是否足够灵敏——如果直接告诉它'不要追问，直接说重点'，训练系统能立即响应吗？

You know, Is there something I can help you with? And, you know, I don't want all of that. I just want will the training how, responsive is the training if you tell it, you know, don't ask a follow-up question. Don't just get to the point, is the training responsive in that way?

这其实更多是我们所说的AI人格设定问题。

So I think that's more of what we call the person, AI persona.

懂了。

I see.

实际上我们有专门设置项。比如聊天模式设为'极简'就会非常简短，我现在用的语音模式也是极简设置。当然也可以根据需要调成长篇模式。

Basically, we actually have like a specific section for that. Like on the chat, it's actually set to minimal, like just talk very short. On the voice actually, I'm on the voice. It's actually set to minimal. So I can actually make it, longer, if I want to, but it's already there.

我还能通过类似提示词的指导原则直接要求：'保持回答简短'。

But I can also, like these guidelines kind of like prompts that I can just say things like, keep your answers short.

明白了。这些内容都会写入系统提示或类似的东西里吗？

Right. And this is all going into the system prompt or something?

是的，这些实际上会添加到提示词中。当系统回答问题时，它会在提示词里加入这些指导原则。没错。

Yeah, these are actually going to the prompt. So it's actually adding these guidelines to the prompt when it's answering the questions. Yeah.

哦，这很有趣。我想问的是，你们如何应对竞争？因为这类产品现在遍地开花。所有人都在打造智能体或各种SaaS平台。坦白说，没几个像你们这么简洁明了，但都在做智能体。你怎么看这个市场的发展？

Oh, that's fascinating. I mean, one thing I want to ask, how are you dealing with the competition because this sort of thing is happening all over the place. Everyone's building agents or a lot of SaaS platforms out there. Frankly, not many as straightforward as yours, but to build agents. How do you see the market developing?

我认为产品多是好事。这实际上对所有人都有利，虽然我们并不紧密关注竞争对手，但通常会有用户试用各种产品后告诉我们：'你们速度太慢'、'回答质量不行'之类。他们会因为其他产品实现了某些功能而向我们提需求。最终促使大家共同进步。

I think it's a good thing that there are many products. This actually helps everybody, because even though we don't really follow competition very closely, what usually happens is some people will try all the products and they will come and tell us, Hey, you are slow. They will tell us, Yeah, your answers are bad, or something like that. They will start asking for features because they solve in other products. As a result, everyone improves.

所以竞争激烈是好事。但Jot Form与主要竞争对手的最大区别在于——市面上有Salesforce的Agent Force、Brad Taylor的Sierra等大牌产品，但它们都专注于企业级市场。而我们作为公司和产品更聚焦于服务3000万用户，其中多数使用的还是免费版。虽然我们也有企业级产品和大客户，但核心用户群其实是中小微企业、小型医疗机构、非营利组织和教育机构。

So I think it's a good thing that there are a lot of competition. But I think the biggest difference between Jot Form and the main competitors, there are products like Agent Force by Salesforce, there is Sierra from Brad Taylor, there is just all these big names. But the great thing is they're all focused on enterprise, And we are more focused as a company, as a product, we have 30,000,000 users and most of them are actually using the free product. And we also have an enterprise product and we also have like big name companies using our product. But our main user base is actually all those like small businesses, small businesses, small healthcare, small nonprofits, small education.

我们更倾向于打造人人可用的SaaS服务，而非专为企业设计的产品。这就是JotForm的核心理念：简单易用、免费起步、接地气。相比那些大厂产品，我们能通过与海量用户对话持续改进产品。当然，这个产品才发布两个月...

And we prefer, instead of building a product for enterprise, we prefer to build this SaaS service, easy to use product for everyone. And I think that's the main difference between JotForms product. It's easy to use, it's available to everyone, it's free, easy to start compared to those big shops, big names, we are more grounded. And I feel like that's a better approach because we get more chance to be able to improve our product, to make it great, because we are talking to so many customers. Yeah, that's our approach, but it's only been like two months since we released the product.

时间会证明一切。

So time will tell us.

确实很棒。关于中小企业的观点很有意思，那些顶级咨询公司最低收费都要百万美元。但无数公司想在网站或内部系统实现某些功能，根本请不起咨询公司。而你们提供的是自助服务。

Yeah, no, it's wonderful. It's fascinating. And to your point about small and medium sized businesses, you know I talk a lot to the big consulting firms, know their minimum bill is a million or something. But there are so many companies out there that want to implement something, on their website or, or internally and they can't afford these consulting firms to come in and tell them how to do it. But this is self-service.

这是人们真正能够...

This is something that Yeah. People can do.

他们才是最需要这个产品的群体。小企业主、教育管理者、非营利机构、诊所——这些人忙得根本没时间接电话。他们本身就是表单工具的重度用户，二十年来一直用JotForm，我们太了解这些行业了。他们最需要AI助手，因为AI可以7×24小时工作，成本低廉，而且不需要完美无缺。

They need this product the most because they're like, if you're a small business, if you are this, you know, education administrator, if you are nonprofit, healthcare, like you're just so busy, you don't have time to like constantly answer the phones, constantly. And that's why actually they are really big form users as well. That's like why we know these segments really well because they have been using JotForm forms for two decades. And we understand these industries like the small businesses and they actually need AI the most because the AI can actually, you know, we work 20 fourseven, it's very cheap, it doesn't have to be perfect, you know?

是啊。

Yeah.

它不必完美。只要能回答你的问题，比如说你是一家餐厅，有人在非营业时间打来电话，如果你能回答他们的问题，比如你在哪里，你什么时候开门，诸如此类的事情，那就没问题，即使AI偶尔出错也不是什么大问题。而且，它能为这些小企业做这么多事情。我觉得人们也已经准备好接受AI了。人们已经习惯使用ChechiPT，它现在已经成为一种消费品。

It doesn't have to be perfect. If it can just answer the questions of your, like, let's say you're a restaurant, someone calls out of business hours, if you can just answer their questions like where are you, what time are you gonna be open, things like that, it's okay, like it's not a deal breaker if AI hasten it once in a while. And just, it can do so much for these small businesses. And I feel like the people are also ready for AI. So like people are used to using ChechiPT and it's now a consumer product.

甚至我的孩子们，比如我的两个儿子还在上小学，当他们做作业时，他们实际上是在用语音模式和手机上的ChechiPT对话。对他们来说，研究东西、提问都非常容易，他们甚至能真正使用AI。现在人们已经习惯和AI对话，但使用LLMs，他们只能获取一般信息，对吧？如果世界上每个企业、每个组织都有自己的ChechiPT，你不需要去chechipt.com，而是可以去他们的网站，通过使用他们的AI，结合他们的知识库、信息和所有表格，与他们对话。如果你想买东西，可以直接和AI对话购买。

Even my kids, like my kids are in elementary school, like my two boys are in elementary school and when they're doing their homework, they are actually talking to ChechiPT on the voice mode, on the phone. And it's just very easy for them to research things, ask about things, even they can really use the AI. And now people are used to talking to AI, but with LLMs, they can only get general information, right? What if every business, every organization in the world had their own ChechiPT, that instead of going to chechipt.com, you could go to their website and talk to them by using their AI with their knowledge base in the backend, with their information, with all the forms they have. If you need to buy something, can just talk to the AI and buy it.

如果你想学习什么，你可以学习。如果每个企业都有这个，你知道，对消费者来说也会很棒。会让每个人的生活变得更轻松。

If you wanna learn about something, you can learn it. And if every business actually had this, like it will be, you know, it will be also great for the consumer. You know, it would make things so much easier for everyone.

是啊，是啊。而且，你知道，我觉得每个人都应该有一个个人网站。我是说，为什么不呢？每个人都可以在自己的网站上有一个聊天机器人或代理，这样你不需要找他们的电话号码或邮箱，可以直接和他们的代理对话。

Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, I think everyone should have a personal website. I mean, why not? And you could everybody could have their own chatbot on the or agent on the website where, you know, instead of hunting for their phone number or email, you could talk to their agent.

如果你想，你知道，安排一个预约什么的，他们可以7。

And if you wanted to, you know, set up an appointment or something, they can 7.

是啊。这是即时的。你可以得到舞者。你可以打电话。你去他们的网站。

Yeah. It's instant. You get dancers. You can call. You you go to their website.

立刻得到密码。你知道，这很棒。

Get instant instant asswords. You know, it's great.

是啊。所以。这很酷。是啊。而且你看，一旦你超过100个电话或知识库中的一定数据量，你就开始收费。

Yeah. So. It's cool. Yeah. And so you see and and and you once you are beyond a 100 calls or a certain amount of data in the knowledge base, you start charging.

那是固定的订阅费吗？是按使用量计费还是你怎么收费？

And is that a flat subscription fee? Is that a usage meter or how do you charge?

其实这和JotForm很相似。我们有青铜、白银、黄金等不同等级的套餐，按月订阅费起价大约是每月39美元，或者你也可以选择年付，同样能享受50%的折扣。但本质上，这只是通过升级到更高套餐来提升你的使用限额。所以这不是积分制，而是多级订阅方案。如果你想用两个月就停用，也完全可以自由操作。

It's actually like the same with JotForm. We have all these like bronze, silver, gold plans. It's like monthly subscription fee and starts at like $39 a month, or you can buy a year, get 50% discount as well. But basically it's just, you can increase your limits by upgrading to a higher plan. So it's not like credits, it's just subscription plans, multi subscription And if you wanna use it for two months and then stop using, you are free to do that as well.

实际上大多数人都是从免费套餐开始试用，了解产品运作方式。等到他们的表单或AI智能体用户量达到一定规模后，就会升级到付费套餐。

Most people actually start with the free plan, see how it works. And you know once they get like you know so much so many people using their forms or their AI agents then they upgrade to the paid plans.

是啊是啊，这太棒了。你们增长得很快吗？市场需求和接受度如何？我的意思是，现在市场竞争激烈会让发展变得困难，还是说市场足够大，大家都有充足的增长空间？

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah this is wonderful and and and you're growing quickly or how is the the demand, the uptake? I mean, is the fact that the market's crowded making it difficult or is the market so large that there's plenty of room for growth for everybody?

我们在两个月内就增长到了约1万用户。目前保持着稳定增长节奏，虽然不是爆发式增长，但持续在上升。大部分用户其实来自JotForm的现有用户群体，那些已经使用表单工具的人。我对增速不过快反而感到安心，因为我们每天都在优化产品。

So in two months we were able to grow to like 10,000 users. And so it's actually growing in a steady pace. It's not a huge explosion, it's growing. And most of the users actually came from existing JotForm users, people who already have forms. And I'm actually okay with not growing too fast because we are actually improving the product every day.

由于我们自己在使用产品并持续提供支持，每天都在改进。所以我更倾向于稳步增长，而不是突然迎来数百万用户的爆发。因为产品质量每天都在提升。这让我联想到《权力的游戏》里的龙——它拥有巨大力量，但也可能反噬其主。

Because we are using our own product with our own support that every day we are improving the product. So I actually prefer to go in a steady growth path as opposed to like sudden explosion of millions of users. And because the quality is improving every day. And I feel like I actually AI to Dragon. If you think about Game of Thrones, it's like a dragon of Calithy and it has like so much power, but it can also burn you.

所以需要谨慎对待产品培育过程，打磨产品需要时间。我宁愿每天持续改进，随着大语言模型（抱歉说漏了）的进步，产品质量也在同步提升。对目前的发展态势，我其实非常满意。

So you wanna be careful about like just, it takes a while to train a product, improve a product. So I make sure okay with taking the time, like just improve it every day. And as the LLM, sorry, also improving, the quality of the product is also improving. So I'm actually very happy with how things are going so far.

好的。还有什么我们没谈到但你想让听众了解的内容吗？

Yeah. Is there anything that we haven't covered that you would like listeners to know?

没什么了。这就是我们的愿景——希望每个组织、每个小企业、全球每家公司都能拥有自己的AI智能体。这样当你在凌晨三点想联系某家企业时，

Nothing. I feel like, you know, that's the vision. The vision is, you know, having every organization, every small business, you know, every business in the world have their own AI agents, so that, you know, when you wanna talk to that business in the middle of tonight, 3AM,

你可以

you can

随时与商家沟通，获取信息、购买商品、预约服务，任何你需要的事情。所有你能授权给AI智能体的工具，它都能代为完成。我认为这是个伟大的愿景，将成为造福所有人的重要功能，这也正是AI的承诺，我深信不疑。

talk to that business, you can, you know, get information, buy stuff and set up appointments, whatever you need to do, all the tools that you could make available to your AI agent could be done by the AI agent. So I feel like that's a great vision and it's gonna be a great feature for everyone and that's the promise of AI and I really believe it.

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