阿里·西蒙斯谈击剑如何教会我们坚韧与避免倦怠

想象一下，你投身于一项运动中，成败可能取决于一次触碰，而每一次胜利或失败都是学习的机会。

Imagine dedicating yourself to a sport where success can hinge on a single touch and where every win or loss is an opportunity to learn.

阿里·西蒙斯是美国顶尖的FA击剑运动员之一。

Ari Simmons is one of the top US FA fencers.

他是一名教练。

He's a coach.

他天生擅长讲故事。

He's a natural storyteller.

他是这个社区的意见领袖，并将目光投向了2028年洛杉矶奥运会。

He's an influencer in this community, and he has his eyes set on the Los Angeles twenty twenty eight Olympics.

阿里最初通过赢得青少年世界锦标赛崭露头角，随后在圣母大学四次入选全美最佳阵容，期间帮助战斗爱尔兰队斩获多项NCAA团体冠军。

Ari first made his mark by winning a cadet world championship, and then he went on to become a four time all American at Notre Dame, helping the Fighting Irish clinch some NCAA team titles while he was there.

他还代表美国队在国际舞台上征战过多个级别赛事，并持续参加成年组巡回赛。

He's also represented team USA on the international stage at many different levels and continues to compete on the senior circuit.

如今他正为2028年洛杉矶奥运会备战，在剑道内外的生活中寻找奥运生涯的平衡。

Now he's training for LA twenty twenty eight where he's balancing the grind of an Olympic life with life outside the strip.

他还培养着下一代人才。

He's also shaped the next generation.

他曾担任杜克大学和空军学院的教练，同时也是《直接淘汰》播客的联合主持人，这档节目非常值得一听。

He's been a coach at Duke and the Air Force Academy, and he's a cohost of his own podcast, the Direct Elimination podcast, which is a great listen.

他与运动员同行们探讨毅力、失败与人生目标，这是深入了解这项运动的绝佳机会。

He's talking to fellow athletes about grit and failure and purpose, and and it's a great opportunity to grow and and understand this sport even more.

对阿里和我们许多人来说，击剑或许是项小众运动，但我们发现其中关于韧性、策略和运动乐趣的启示具有普世价值。

So for Ari and for a lot of us, you know, fencing might be this niche sport, but we've seen that its lessons about resilience and strategy and finding joy in fencing are universal.

阿里，现在正是与你对话的好时机。

So Ari, this is a great time to talk to you.

欢迎来到播客节目。

Welcome to the podcast.

谢谢。

Thank you.

感谢邀请，布莱恩。

Thanks for having me, Brian.

还没跟你线上见过面。

Never met with you virtually.

倒是已经跟你线下聚过好几次了。

I've gotten to hang out with you in person quite a few times.

能作为嘉宾上你的播客，回答你可能提出的任何问题，我超级兴奋。

So excited to be a guest on your podcast and answering any questions you might have.

我问题可多了。

I've got a lot.

我们通常喜欢从起源故事开始聊起。

So we like to start with kind of the origin story.

我觉得你的故事特别有意思，因为你在成人组赛事中取得了成功。

And I think for you, it's it's an interesting one because you found success on the senior circuit.

现在算来应该都是十多年前的事了吧？

I guess at this point, it's more than ten years ago.

对吧？

Right?

你曾是少年组世界冠军。

And you were a cadet world champion.

是什么让你开始从事击剑运动并坚持至今？

But what got you in defensing and has kept you around for so long?

好问题。

Great question.

谢谢提问。

Thanks for asking.

我很乐意谈谈我的成长故事。

So I love to talk about my origin story.

这家伙可能已经听腻了自己的名字。

This guy is probably sick of hearing his name.

但安东·皮斯科瓦茨科，这位来自联盟击剑学院的杰出击剑手，是我一生的挚友。

But Anton Piskovatsko, another great fencer from Alliance Fencing Academy, is one of my lifelong best friends.

我们从大约四岁起就开始练习击剑了。

We were fencing since we were about four years old.

八岁那年，准确说我们八岁时，他妈妈嫁给了一个人，那人后来成为了——或者说本来就是——你知道的，总之就是安德烈·格巴，他是世界上最优秀的击剑教练之一。

And at the age of eight, his well, when we were eight, his mom married a guy who happened to become and already was or become, you know, that's up and there, but it's Andre Geba, who is one of the best FA coaches in the world.

当时他拥有一家击剑俱乐部，安东就这样被逼着开始练击剑。

And at the time, he owned a fencing club, and Anton got forced into fencing.

两年后，在观摩了几场本地比赛后，我妈妈说：'你应该试试这个'。

And two years later, after hanging out, going and seeing some competitions locally, my mom said, you should try that out.

于是我们说服了另一个非常要好的朋友一起尝试，我妹妹也被迫和我一起开始学习。

So we convinced one of our other really close friends to try, and my sister got forced to start with me.

就这样我们踏上了击剑之路。

And it was off to the races.

2007年我们参加了一个夏令营，从那以后我就没怎么考虑过其他运动了。

We did a summer camp in 2007, and since then, I haven't thought much about other sports.

我确实喜欢篮球，但击剑确实占据了我的精神世界。

I do love basketball, but fencing really became what dominated my mental space.

我热爱这项运动带给我的种种挑战。

I loved the ways in which the sport challenged me.

我热爱这项运动让你能够以个人身份与他人竞技，但同时又能以团队形式一起训练的方式。

I loved the ways that it enabled you to compete with other people as an individual, but you train with them as a team.

尽管在非团体赛事中大部分时间你都是独自上场竞技，但在俱乐部训练时，那是一种家庭般的氛围。

And although you're out there on your own when you're competing for the most part outside of team events, when you're at the club training, it's a family environment.

你会感觉自己是一个团队、一个更大组织的一部分，这真正触及了个人竞技和团队协作中都很重要的诸多方面。

You feel like you're part of a team, a larger organization, and really touched on a lot of the things that are important in both individual competition and in team work.

所以我非常喜欢这一点。

So I definitely loved that.

从早期击剑开始，我就热爱这项运动，喜欢能去那里和朋友们一起练习，作为小孩子共度时光。

From an early days fencing, I I loved the game, and I loved the ability to go there and play with my friends and spend time as a young kid.

我年轻时绝对没有高水平的技巧或表现。

And I definitely didn't have a high level of skill or performance at a young age.

所以不能说是因为获胜才让我坚持下来的。

So I can't say that winning is what kept me in there.

我的第一次锦标赛——可能前几次锦标赛——都是垫底的。

I I got dead last in my first tournament, maybe my first couple tournaments.

我在俱乐部的排名相对其他击剑选手较低。

I was performing lower on the rankings relative to some of the other fencers at the club.

尤其是安东，他一直是我们这个年龄段直到大学后的顶尖选手，对吧？

Anton, in particular, was always a top performer for our age group through post college, right?

所以他真的很棒。

So he he's great.

在某个时刻，我突然开窍决定更认真地对待这项运动，可能是因为有人说我太爱开玩笑、话太多、不够认真，或者看到队友们在这项运动中取得了很多成功——要知道，我参加同样的比赛却表现很差，看到他们更认真对待训练，而我虽有提升的资源却总是输。

And at certain point, something clicked in me to take the sport a bit more seriously, whether it was being told that I'm too much of a goofball, I talk too much, I'm not taking it seriously, or just seeing my teammates find a lot of success in this sport that, you know, I was going to the same competitions and performing really poorly and seeing them take it more seriously and coming to practice and constantly losing when I had the resources to improve.

可能是在我练习击剑约三年后，2010年谢尔盖·多尼洛夫加入联盟成为新教练时。

Could have been could have been getting a new coach in Sergey Donilov when he came to Alliance in 2010 after about three years of me fencing.

但这些都不是让我坚持至今的原因。

But none of that is what keeps me in it today.

我继续从事击剑是因为这项运动依然给我的生活带来活力，让我充满激情。

I stick around in fencing because the game still gives me a lot of life and invigorates me.

我发现经过多年，我在击剑运动中不断挑战自我的承诺，以及由此产生的一切，真正推动我在赛场外成为了最好的自己，也成为了更好的人。

I found that over the course of many years, my commitment to pushing myself in the sport of fencing and all the things that have come out of that have really pushed me to become the best version of myself off the strip and just as a person.

它帮助我找到了平衡，成为我审视自我的一面镜子，让我看清当下真实的自己，以及我该如何提升自己的击剑水平——无论是通过自律、对自己极度诚实、面对失败并成长、在胜利中保持谦逊，还是对事物保持热忱与耐心。

It's helped me find balance, and it's been a tool and a mirror for myself to look into and understand who I really am in that moment and what I apply to improve myself in fencing, whether it's discipline or being brutally honest with myself or facing loss and having to grow or being humble through wins or or being passionate about something, whatever it is, patient.

这些能通过击剑等运动或热爱之事磨砺的品质，能帮助你在赛场之外成为更好的自己。

Those traits that you can sharpen via a sport or a tool or passion like fencing help you become a better version of yourself off the strip.

所以我非常热爱这一点。

So I really love that.

正如你在介绍中提到的，与下一代互动已成为我为自己设定的重要目标。

And then you mentioned this in your intro, interacting with the next generation is something that I've made very important goal for myself.

我发现成长过程中，YouTube刚刚兴起，我们有幸看到Cyrus of Chaos等人在网上发布大量击剑视频资源。

I found that when I was growing up, YouTube was just starting to become a thing, and we had awesome resources like Cyrus of Chaos posting a lot of videos on the internet for us to watch fencing.

但即便如此，当时年轻选手乃至高水平运动员都鲜有机会跨世代接触顶尖选手，与他们交流并了解其思维方式——那些偶像人物曾是遥不可及的。

That being said, there weren't a lot of opportunities for fencers at the younger level, and even at the higher level, to be able to interface and network with and get into the minds of top athletes across multiple generations, and their idols were untouchable.

我在Knacks赛事中看到的选手——Seth Kelsey、Soren Thompson、Cody Matter等人，还有国际选手，名单很长。

The people that I would watch at Knacks, you know, Seth Kelsey and Soren Thompson and all these guys, Cody Matter, they're a long list, and the international guys.

作为低级别选手，我从未与他们有过面对面交流，仅能通过观赛获得激励。

There was no face to face interaction that I was having with them as a lower level fencer, and I was simply inspired by them from what I saw.

我从未有机会了解他们的思维方式。

I never got to hear about the way they think.

我从未得到过那些顶尖选手的任何指导或 mentorship。

I never got to have any lessons or mentorship from those high up guys.

我认为过去十五年间美国男子重剑项目衰退的一个重要原因，可能就是缺乏对年轻运动员的 proper mentorship。

And I think that one of the pieces that has really hurt men's APA in The US over the last decade and a half has been a lack of proper mentorship probably for the younger athletes.

我们其实有很多极具天赋的年轻选手，你看青少年组和青年组拿了那么多奖牌。

We've had a lot of really talented athletes as you see at the cadet junior level winning so many medals.

但老一辈选手和我们之间存在明显的断层。

And we just had a fairly disconnected older contingent offensors.

这不是说他们不好，只是他们当时没有以建设性和 productive 的方式来指导年轻一代。

Not that it's a bad thing or a good thing, they just weren't focused on mentoring the younger guys in a constructive and productive way.

于是我们看到大学毕业后选手数量急剧减少，形成了一种各自为战的风气。

And we'd see a steep drop off after college and this every man for himself mentality.

这种状况让我很不舒服——我本可以从前辈的经验中获益更多，他们本可以引导我和同龄人顺利渡过成长过程中的险滩。

And I didn't sit right with me, and I really felt that I could have benefited more from somebody who had been in my shoes prior to me, helping me and my peers guide ourselves or help guide us through the treacherous waters of becoming an adult.

对吧？

Right?

而且我觉得我很喜欢这样做并回馈他人。

And I think that I've loved doing that and paying it forward.

当然，在很多方面我本可以做得更好，也可以继续改进。

And, obviously, there are plenty of ways in which I could have done it better and could continue to do it better.

但希望我的努力能激励下一批人继续推进这项工作并不断优化，因为我们不仅拥有一批才华横溢的运动员网络，更拥有真正具备世界顶尖实力的运动员群体。

But hopefully, you know, my efforts inspire the next group of guys to continue doing that even more so and iterating on it because not only do we have a strong network of talented athletes, we have a strong network of athletes who could truly be the best in the world.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得说得很到位。

Think that's well said.

你刚才说的有一点很有趣，就是我们青少年男子击剑队实力非常强劲。

And something you said is really interesting there, which is, you know, our cadet Menseppe and our junior Menseppe teams are so strong.

但男子击剑队已经很久没拿过奥运奖牌了。

But it has been a while since Menseppe has won an Olympic medal.

对吧？

Right?

所以当我们考虑这种断层时，再加上重剑项目——你肯定比我更清楚——似乎天然就是一个世界冠军们都在30多岁而非20多岁的项目，不像花剑和佩剑那样。

So when we think about the drop off there, coupled with the fact that Epee just naturally seems to be, and you would know better than me, seems to be a sport where the world champions are people in their 30s instead of in their 20s, like in maybe foil and saber.

我们该如何弥合美国击剑队从男子重剑青少年组的成功到成年组之间的差距？

How do we bridge that gap in Team USA fencing from the cadet and junior success that we're having with men's at bay to the senior level?

我很想听听你的看法，尤其是因为你本人就是成年组国家队的一员。

And I'd love to hear from you, especially because you're part of that senior level team.

对吧？

Right?

所以你不是以局外人身份空谈理论。

So you're you're not just talking at at it from an outsider.

你是那12位周游世界参赛的选手中的一员。

You're someone who's there with the 12 guys traveling around the world to compete.

是的。

Yeah.

好问题。

Great question.

所以我认为一切总是在变化。

So I think that everything is always changing.

对吧？

Right?

像萨姆·埃默里克这样的人，还有你的特里斯坦·萨帕里斯等，这些极具天赋、动力十足，且在多个方面比同龄人更成熟的运动员，正以更年轻的年纪变得更强，在行为方式上更专业，并找到解决方案。

So people like Sam Emerick and others, even your Tristan Sapparis, these very, very talented, motivated, and in many ways, mature for their age athletes starting to become a lot stronger at a younger age, become more professional about the way they conduct themselves and and finding the solution.

你知道，有个意大利人马特奥·加拉西，和萨姆同龄，还有马哈茂德·埃尔·赛义德和穆罕默德·埃尔·赛义德，都在二十出头时就表现出极高的水平。

You know, you have Italian guy named Matteo Galassi, same age as Sam, Mahmoud El Sayed and Mohamed El Sayed, both performing at an incredibly high level into their early twenties.

总体来看，男子花剑似乎在向更运动化和疯狂的方向发展，这很有趣。

And overall men's FA seems to be trending downwards as it just becomes more athletic and crazy, which is fun.

仍然存在一种趋势，即那些坚持更久、积累经验的人往往会在后期突然开窍。

There is still the trend where people who stick around longer and just get that experience tend to have it click later on.

这对于像我这样在二十多岁和三十出头仍想为自己争取好成绩的人来说是件好事。

And that's good for for people like myself who still want the great things for themselves in their late twenties and early thirties.

要回答你的问题，我认为我们已经在这方面有所行动了。

So to answer your question, I believe we're already doing that.

这是个相当简单的解决方案。

It's pretty simple solution.

我认为作为一个团队，最重要的是齐心协力。

I think that as a team, the most important thing is working together.

而且我认为并不是我们从未合作过。

And I think that it's not that we never worked together.

对吧？

Right?

关键在于这成为了团队更共同的目标，也是容易指出的因素——有两个因素可以解释为何现在会出现这种情况，因为你看到了成长。

It's just a matter of it being a more collective goal for the group and an easy factor to point to, two factors to point to for why this might be happening now, because you are seeing a growth.

你看到更多个人成绩涌现，也看到团队终于开始打破我们长期以来的胜利荒。

You're seeing a lot more individual results come out, and you're seeing the team finally start to break through the drought of wins that we've had.

这源于两个原因。

So that comes from two reasons.

首先，我们必须赞扬那些全力以赴的运动员们，这很可能是因为2028年洛杉矶奥运会即将在美国举办。

So one, we have to give credit to the athletes who are all buying in, most likely due to Los Angeles twenty twenty eight being right around the corner in The US.

我们知道这意味着什么，如果团队未能获得参赛资格，但已展现出足够潜力，我们仍有可能获得外卡或特邀名额。

We know the implications of that with the team slot that if the team doesn't qualify and we've shown enough potential that we could potentially get one of these at large or wildcard bids.

作为东道主。

As the hosts.

对吧？

Right?

作为东道主。

As a host.

抱歉。

Excuse me.

是的。

Yeah.

作为东道主国。

As a host country.

这就是为什么它能激励人们。

That's why it's motivating for people.

我们看到运动员们投入了很多。

And we're seeing a lot of buy in from the athletes.

很多运动员都留了下来。

A lot of athletes are sticking around.

许多运动员在比赛中努力成为更强的自己。

A lot of athletes are competing, trying to become stronger versions of themselves.

这很有帮助。

That helps.

我们尤其在纽约地区开始合作，但总的来说，你会看到更多为提高而进行的协作努力，人们不再那么保守秘密，因为他们意识到水涨船高。

And we're also starting to work together in especially in the New York area, but all around, you're seeing more collaborative efforts to improve, people not keeping secrets as much because they realize that a rising tide's raising all ships.

第二点，老实说，我们的国家队教练塞思·凯尔西曾是男子花剑的杰出选手。

And the second one being, honestly, our national coach, Seth Kelsey, is a former great men's FAist.

如果从纸面成绩来看，他是美国历史上最优秀的男子花剑运动员。

He is the best US men's FAist in history if we look at on paper.

是的。

Yeah.

我想他获得了奥运会第四名，对吧，这可能是我们有史以来或很长一段时间内看到的最高名次。

I think he got a fourth place Olympic finish, right, which is the highest we've seen in maybe ever or a long time.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

据我所知，美国还没有男子花剑奥运奖牌，但那是个了不起的奥运成绩。

To my knowledge, we don't have a men's FA Olympic medal from The US, but that was a great Olympic finish.

除此之外，塞斯在其大部分甚至整个成年职业生涯中，都是世界排名前16的击剑选手之一。

On top of that, Seth was one of the top 16 fencers in the world for a majority, if not all, of his senior career.

所以塞斯的指导，以及他的在场、投入和展现出的击剑造诣。

So Seth's mentorship and just him being around and being invested and showing that he he knows fencing.

你知道，他甚至偶尔会穿上装备，击败我们的一些顶尖选手。

You know, he's showcased he's even suited up on occasion and beat some of our top guys.

纯粹是为了好玩。

Just for fun.

并不是因为他觉得'你们需要被教训一下'，而是因为那是个周一，训练营里大多数击剑手都在工作，几个没工作的年轻人——大概四五个人早上来参加训练营，他就说'我来陪你们练练'。

Not because he's like, oh, you guys need to get beat down, but really, there was a it was like a Monday, and most of the fencers during this camp were at work, and some of the guys who didn't have jobs, you know, let's say it's four people or five people were there in the morning for a training camp and says, you know, I'll fence you guys.

然后他给他们上了一课。

And he showed them the work.

所以他显然宝刀未老，光是看到这种专业级别的选手在剑道上展示团队经验就足够鼓舞人心。

So he he's definitely still got it, and that's inspiring just to see someone of that level of expertise on the strip and that level of team experience.

他还是团体世界冠军和团体世界亚军——这个成就甚至连我们其他剑种现在的许多顶尖选手都未能企及。

He's also a team world champion, a team world champion silver medalist, which is something that even many of our greats right now across the other weapons can't claim.

我认为他的指导对很多通常戒备心很强的击剑手来说反而能卸下心防，因为他非常沉稳，而且整体而言他的存在让人感到温暖。

So I think that having his mentorship has been really disarming for a lot of the fencers that typically have their guard up because he's very calm and his presence is is very warm, all things considered.

他是真心想待在这里。

He wants to be there.

他真心希望我们成功，并且以不偏不倚的态度，只是希望每个人都能发挥出自己最好的一面。

He wants us to succeed, and he wants, in an unbiased way, just wants to see everyone kind of bring out the best of themselves.

因此我认为这两点就是对你'我们如何跟上'这个问题的回答。

So I believe that those are two pieces of this answer to your question of how can we keep up.

我的意思是，归根结底是团队协作，是每个人在备战中都更专业一点。

I mean, really, it's teamwork, and it's everyone taking themselves a little bit more professionally in their preparation.

过去一切都非常孤立，我认为大家本可以表现得更加专业。

Everything was really siloed, and people, I don't think, were as professional as they could be.

我们看到柯蒂斯·麦克道尔和杰克·霍伊在东京奥运会前达到了很高水平，我相信他们当时就非常专业。

We saw Curtis McDowell and Jake Hoyle reach a really high level right before the Tokyo Olympics, and I believe that they were taking it pretty professionally at the time.

但这种状态中断了，杰克退役了，我们很久没在剑术领域看到高水平的职业素养。

But that fell off, Jake stopped fencing, and we just hadn't seen a high level of professionalism from ends at bay.

我们看到了巨大的断层。

We saw a large gap.

我们看到很多年轻剑手加入时就知道如何应对这种情况。

We saw a lot of younger fencers coming in, knowing how to manage that.

经过多年经验积累、前辈指导以及大家共同认真对待，我们已经看到水平提升，未来只会更好。

And through the years of getting experience, mentorship from the older guys, and everyone collectively buying into taking it more seriously, we've seen that uptick, and we're only going to see more.

我的预测是，无论是个人还是团队方面，水平都将继续提高。

My prediction is that it's going to continue to improve on the individual front as well as the team.

这大概是我们目前在美国，利用现有体系所能做到的最大努力了。

And that's probably the most we can do here in The US at the moment with the system that we have at our disposal.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，显然我知道美国击剑协会一直在努力做更多，在预算允许范围内尽可能支持更多运动员。

And, obviously, I know USA fencing is is always trying to do more, support more athletes as much as our budget allows.

我想谈谈你水平提升的过程。

I want to talk about your climbing the level.

你提到第一次参加锦标赛时排名垫底，但后来显然扭转了局面。

You talked about how at your first tournament, you finished dead last and obviously turned things around.

但我最好奇的是你被圣母大学招募的经历，因为很多听众都对这段旅程感兴趣——一个人是如何进入这样的顶级项目的视野的。

But I'm most curious about your recruiting from Notre Dame because a lot of people who listen to this are interested in that journey, how someone gets on the radar of a top program like that.

所以能否请你带我们回到你做决定的时候，你是如何脱颖而出引起圣母大学注意，最终进入这个在大学击剑界堪称传奇的项目的？

So if you can take us back to when you were making that decision and how you stood out to catch the eye of Notre Dame and end up at this program that is a legendary within the world of collegiate fencing?

是的。

Yeah.

其实我进入圣母大学的经历非常曲折有趣，我很乐意分享。

So I actually had a very interesting roundabout way of getting to Notre Dame, and I'm happy to share it.

这对大多数人来说并非推荐路径，因为我做了一些不建议效仿的事情。

It's not the recommended path for most because I did some stuff that I don't recommend doing.

所以我认为自己并没有真正经历许多孩子面临的困境——他们需要努力让大学教练看到自己的击剑表现和成绩。

So I don't think that I necessarily shared in the struggle that a lot of kids face with trying to get their fencing and the results viewed by college coaches.

原因在于，过去招生工作是从高四年级才开始的。

The reason being, recruiting used to start your senior year.

现在这个时间已经提前到高二年级前的暑假。

It's now expanded to the summer before your junior year.

以前要晚一年才开始。

It used to be one year later.

所以你直到申请前几个月甚至更晚才会开始和教练沟通，然后申请完就结束了。

So you didn't really start talking to coaches or anything like that until months before you applied or less, and then you apply and then you're done.

除此之外，我的父母从未真正将击剑视为上大学的途径。

On top of that, my parents never really pushed fencing as a way to get into college.

我认为这对现在刚开始练习击剑的许多孩子来说是个巨大的危险信号。

I see that as a huge red flag for many kids starting fencing right now.

你知道，我很坦然地说出这些话。

You know, I feel comfortable coming out here and saying that.

我觉得现在很多孩子是被父母逼着去击剑，被逼到极限，而不是出于对这项运动的热爱或教练的指导。

I think that many kids nowadays are being pushed to fence and being really pushed to their limits by their parents rather than their desire to improve in the sport and their coaches.

对我来说，我认为父母允许的，你知道他们不会在击剑上花钱，如果你被踢出班级，如果我们知道你没有努力。

And I think that for me, my parents allowing me, you know, they said, we're not going to spend money on fencing if you get kicked out of classes and if we know you're not trying.

但如果你尽了最大努力，你的教练说你已经准备好参加这些比赛等等。

But if you're putting in your best effort and your coaches say that you're ready to compete at these competitions and all this stuff.

他们对教练非常信任。

They put a lot of trust in their coaches.

联盟的教练们都说，阿里已经准备好参加这次比赛了。

And the coaches at Alliance said, you know, Ari is ready to go to this tournament.

我父母说，如果你觉得值得，我们会想办法让他去参加。

My parents said, you know, if you think it's worth it, then we'll make possible for him to go.

他们让我爱上了这项运动，学会面对失败并不断挑战自我。

And they let me fall in love with this sport and deal with loss and and push myself.

这一切最终带来了些非常棒的成果。

That ultimately led to some really cool stuff.

我非常幸运遇到了优秀的教练和训练伙伴，更幸运的是在重要时刻表现出色——高二那年赢得世界冠军让我进入了所有大学教练的视野。

I I was very lucky to have great coaches, great training partners, and ultimately lucky to perform well when I performed well, winning here that world championship my sophomore year of high school, put me on the radar for all the college coaches.

到那时，重点就变成了你的成绩和考试分数如何。

And at that point, it became a lot more about what are your grades, what are your test scores.

那时候还没有考试可选政策。

At that time, we didn't have test optional.

当时也没有这么多认真的大学教练。

We also didn't have as many serious college coaches.

我要说，如今随着高水平击剑选手数量激增，大学击剑项目也涌现出更多认真负责的教练，整个格局已经大不相同。

I'll go ahead and say that the landscape nowadays, as the athlete pool has become a lot more saturated with high level fencers, the college pools also become a lot more saturated with college coaches that take their programs seriously.

这是由多种因素共同作用的结果。

And that has come from a variety of factors.

击剑运动正在发展壮大。

Fencing is growing.

体育部门现在更加重视这项运动了。

Athletic departments are taking it more seriously.

那时候的情况完全不同。

It just was a different game back then.

于是在高年级时，我决定去宾夕法尼亚大学沃顿商学院就读。

And so my senior year, I committed to going to University of Pennsylvania, Wharton School of Business.

我当时真的很想上大学。

And I just really wanted to go to college.

他们和其他几所学校都表示：嘿，我们想要你。

And they, along with some other schools, said, hey, we want you.

你的考试成绩达标了。

You have the test scores.

你有击剑特长

You have the fencing.

我们很希望你能来

We'd love to have you.

于是我答应了

And I said yes.

我参观了其中几所学校

I visited a few of them.

学年期间其实没怎么去参观。

Didn't really go during the school year.

我记得夏天里花了一天时间跑了三个校区，然后基本上就是根据17岁那个版本的自己所能考虑的因素做了决定——说实话，当时能考虑的东西实在有限。

I think I spent a day during summer at three different campuses and just kind of made a decision based off of whatever 17 year old version of myself was capable bringing to the table, was not very much, I'm gonna be honest.

既缺乏自我认知，也不清楚自己当下和未来的需求，更不明白多年后想要什么，毕竟那时还是个孩子。

Not a lot of self awareness, not a lot of understanding of what my needs would be or were, and not a lot of understanding of what I wanted for myself years from now, because I was a child.

后来我被宾夕法尼亚大学录取了，同一年，我在高三时入选了成年组国家队。

And then got accepted to the University of Pennsylvania, and that same year, I made a senior team my senior year of high school.

在与队友、教练和父母多次交谈后，我决定休学一年。

And after many conversations with my teammates and my coaches and parents, I decided to take a gap year.

在那段休学期间，我去了圣母大学看望当时的女朋友。

During that gap year, I visited the University of Notre Dame to visit a girlfriend at the time, actually.

尽管那段关系结束了，但我的校园访问确实影响深远。

And although that relationship ended, my visit to the school was really impactful.

我看到了团队训练的方式，也目睹了学校的运作模式。

I saw the way that the team trained, and I saw the way in which the school worked.

我看到了那个地方本质上的精神气质。

I saw the way that the essentially, the ethos of the place that I was in.

我看到了运动员们课后和自习时的管理方式。

I saw the way that the athletes were handled, you know, after class and into study hall.

那里有很多工作要做。

There was a lot of work.

你身处圣母大学这个与世隔绝的地方。

You're in the middle of nowhere at Notre Dame.

你没有大城市的生活。

You don't have a big city life.

一周大部分时间你都没法出去惹麻烦。

You can't go and get in trouble most days of the week.

那样的机会并不多。

There's not a lot of opportunity for that.

而那时，我是个精力旺盛的年轻小伙。

And at the time, I was a rambunctious young teenager.

所以我开始有了一点自我认知。

So I started to have a little bit of self awareness.

这是我申请大学一年后的事。

This was a year after I had applied to college.

也许是我长大了，也许只是因为我在圣母大学看到球队训练得非常专业。

Maybe I was getting older, maybe it was just because I was at Notre Dame and saw the team trained very professionally.

这对我来说是个关键时刻，因为我意识到这才是真正的事业。

It was a standout moment for me because I realized that this is the real deal.

我或许该去看看其他队伍是如何训练的。

I should probably go check out how the other teams are training.

于是我也去宾夕法尼亚大学待了一周，度过了非常愉快的时光。

So I went to University of Pennsylvania for a week as well, had a wonderful time.

当时我在那个队伍里有很多朋友，玩得非常开心。

I have a lot of friends on that team at the time, and I had a blast.

话虽如此，那里的运动员管理方式给予运动员更多自主权，沃顿商学院的课程似乎竞争异常激烈，而队伍的专业程度却不如圣母大学。

That being said, the way that the athletes were managed, there was a lot more autonomy for the athletes, and the coursework seemed to be pretty cutthroat at Wharton School of Business, and the team didn't have the same level of professionalism that Notre Dame did.

这背后有多种因素，可能主要是资金和奖学金的问题。

That was for a myriad of factors, probably mostly being funding and scholarships.

圣母大学确实是一所学术实力雄厚的学府，对其体育事业引以为豪，并让这些体育成就反过来为学术方面提供更多资金支持。

Notre Dame is really it's a strong academic institution that prides itself greatly on its athletic pursuits, and it allows those athletic pursuits to then fund further things from the academic side.

常春藤联盟则完全不同。

The Ivy Leagues are completely different.

它们更注重学术机构本身。

They were a lot more on institution.

你能在这里并且能参加体育运动是很幸运的。

You're lucky to be here, and you can play sports.

这支队伍里有一些很棒的FAF成员。

And the team had some great FAF on it.

坦白说，我感觉它没有提供我所需要的支持，让我不至于失败。

It just didn't seem to have the support that I felt that I needed in order to not fail out, if I'm being very honest with you.

这很公平。

That's fair.

于是我做了决定。

And I made a decision.

我当时正在和圣母大学沟通。

I was talking to Notre Dame.

我和马教练进行了非常直率的谈话，这确实很有挑战性。

I talked to coach Ma, and I have a very upfront conversation with coach Ma, which is really challenging.

再次声明，我不建议任何人这样做。

Again, I don't recommend this to anyone.

我当初没有先见之明提前做好这件事，这确实很愚蠢，但我不得不告诉他这所学校不适合我，我认为自己在那里无法茁壮成长。

It's very foolish that I didn't have the foresight to do this beforehand, but I had to tell him that this wasn't the school for me, and that I didn't think I would thrive there.

最终，我不得不与他进行了一次谈话，表明我将申请另一所学校。

And ultimately, had to have a conversation with him saying that I was gonna be applying to another school.

之后我经历了一系列尝试，努力争取被圣母大学录取。

And then I went through, tried to get recruited by Notre Dame.

他们设法调整了一些安排，为我腾出了位置，能去那里我非常幸运。

They were able to shift some stuff around and make space for me, and I was very lucky to be there.

整件事情的经过就是这样。

And that's really how it went down.

就教练们的关注点而言，主要是通过我的整体性格——我认为是体育精神，以及在比赛中专注的能力，再加上出色的考试成绩。

As far as the attention of coaches, it was just via my overall personality, I'd say sportsmanship, and ability to focus in competition, combined with strong test results.

我的学业成绩并不突出。

I did not have the strongest grades.

我的成绩不算差，但相比学业成绩，我的考试分数和击剑比赛成绩确实更为优异。

I didn't have bad grades, but I definitely had stronger test results and fencing results than grades.

在大学工作后，尤其是在这种环境下，你确实需要这三者的结合。

And you kind of need a combination of all three after having worked in college, especially in this landscape.

如果没有最出色的击剑成绩，我认为可以理解你不会成为招募的重点对象。

If you don't have the strongest fencing results, I think it's safe to understand you're not going to be a priority on the recruiting scene.

这就是现实情况。

It's just how it works.

如今优秀的击剑选手很多，教练们即便在顶尖选手中做选择已经够困难了。

There are many good fencers nowadays, and it's already hard enough for coaches to choose amongst the top fencers.

但如果击剑不是你的强项，你确实可以提高考试成绩、学业成绩和课外活动表现。

But what you can do is you can really improve your test scores and grades and extracurriculars if fencing is not your strong suit.

然后争取以候补身份加入，或与教练合作，选择竞争稍小的学校来寻找加入他们队伍的机会。

And then hope for a walk on spot or work with coaches, schools that are slightly less competitive to find a spot on their team.

如果你是顶级击剑手，要想进入顶尖学校，就必须要么有出色的考试成绩，要么有优秀的学业成绩。

If you're a top level fencer, you gotta either have stellar test results or good grades if you wanna have a shot at the best schools.

现实情况是，你在比赛中表现越出色，你在选择上就有越大的灵活性

And the reality of it is the better offenser you are in competition, the more flexibility that affords you in your

当然。

Sure.

思考做决定。

Thought making decision.

是啊。

Yeah.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

总而言之，孩子在上大学前越精疲力竭，他们就越可能放弃。

All that to say, the more burnt out that a kid gets before they get to college, the more likely they are to quit.

所以近五六年新增的另一层考量是，大学教练现在还得评估你对这项运动的投入程度，也就是

So now another layer to this that has been introduced in the last five to six years, college coaches now also have to evaluate how seriously committed you are to the sport, which is

换句话说，他们能从你身上获得四年的价值吗？

Are they gonna get four years out of you, in other words?

对吧？

Right?

他们能否获得你四年的团队承诺？

Can they get four years of commitment to their team?

因为这些队伍都变得越来越有竞争力。

Because all these teams are becoming more competitive.

所以我想说的是，大学教练在这方面越来越擅长筛选人才。

So what I'll say is the college coaches are getting better at sifting through that.

真有意思。

So Interesting.

这很自然，对吧？

Naturally, right?

当存在竞争、需要做出调整时，大学教练们正努力甄别哪些选手能真正留队四年，哪些只是为了进大学而击剑然后退出。

And when there's competition, when there's adaptations to be made, college coaches are trying to understand who they can actually have on their team for four years, and who's just fencing to get into college and then quit.

所以我的建议是，年轻击剑手和家长要真正明白你们为何从事这项运动。

So what I'll say, my piece of advice to young fencers listening to this and to parents is really understand why you're doing this.

现在想要进入大学击剑圈并成为校队选手，竞争变得异常激烈。

And the scene is getting a lot more cutthroat and competitive just to get on the college scene and to be a fencer in college.

正因如此，教练们希望选手能保持三到四年的投入态度，理想情况下是四年。

And coaches, because of that, want someone for three to four years, ideally four years, with a committed attitude.

这源于你在接触这项运动时不会对它产生厌恶。

So that comes from not hating the sport by the time you get it.

没错。

Right.

所以这需要选手和家长双方的共同努力。

So that that's comes from both fencers and parents.

嗯，这引出了一个有趣的问题，因为你生活中充满了击剑元素。

Well, this raises up an interesting question because, like, you have a lot of fencing in your life.

你参加比赛。

You're competing.

你担任教练。

You're coaching.

你还在播客节目中谈论击剑。

You're talking about it on podcasts.

你在Instagram上发布了一些最棒的击剑内容。

You're doing some like, some of the best fencing content on Instagram.

如果你还没关注，现在就去关注吧。

So if you don't follow already, be sure to do that right now.

暂停这一集，先去关注。

Pause the episode and do it.

但你是怎么避免精疲力竭的呢？

But how do you avoid getting burned out?

因为你说过，你从8岁就开始从事这项运动了。

Because you've been in the sport since you were since you were eight, like you said.

我想象，也许不是这样。

And I imagine, well, maybe not.

但有没有那么几天，你根本不想拿起剑，或者你有什么策略让这项运动对你保持新鲜感吗？

But are there days where you're like, I just do not wanna pick up an epi today, or is it still do you have a tactic to keep this sport fresh for you?

我认为这是个很好的问题，因为在击剑这样的运动中，甚至生活的任何方面，都不可能不感到精疲力竭。

I think that that's a great question because it's impossible to not get burned out in a sport like fencing, but in any aspect of your life.

布莱恩，即便是你，也不可能每天上班都充满激情，有时候你只是需要完成自己设定的任务。

Even you, Brian, you don't show up to work every day excited to be at work every single day to be doing sometimes there are things that you need to do because you've set out to do them.

话虽如此，对抗倦怠最重要的工具就是保持目的性。

That being said, in order to fight burnout, the most important tool that I use is intentionality.

你越能理解自己、你的动机或目标，以及你在所做事情中的追求，就越不容易感到倦怠。

The better you can understand yourself, your why or your purpose, and what your goals are in whatever it is that you're doing, the less likely it is that you're gonna get burnt out.

第二个关键工具就是确保这些目标大多是过程导向型的。

And the second tool that falls right under that is making sure that many of those goals are process oriented goals.

很多人可能真的非常热爱某件事，发自内心地热爱。

So many people might really love something, truly.

他们对这件事充满热情，却开始将这种热情仅仅导向结果。

They're so passionate about it, and they begin to channel that passion towards only outcomes.

这时候一切都会崩溃。

It's when or everything is destroyed.

这种只关注结果的方式，同样会导致精疲力竭。

And that type of resulting, when you're just focusing on the only results, also leads to burnout.

这确实是个复杂的情况，因为结果无论好坏都具有激励作用。

And it's a really complex situation because results are motivating, whether they're good or they're bad, it's a motivating factor.

最终你需要通过结果来实现某些目标，这需要非常微妙的平衡。

And ultimately, you need results to accomplish certain goals, and and it's it's a really nuanced balance.

但设定以过程为导向的目标，专注于你作为个人、运动员、听众或其他身份的成长与进步。

But having goals that are process oriented, that are focused on your betterment or improvement as a person or an athlete or an individual or a listener or whatever it is.

比如说，我需要努力成为一个更好的倾听者。

For example, I need to work on being a listener.

我是个话痨。

I'm a yabber.

这对播客来说是件好事，我得说。

Which is good for a podcast, I will say.

这对播客主持人来说很棒。

Which is great for a podcast host.

作为播客嘉宾这样更好，这是我的看法。

It's it's better for a podcast guest is what I'll say.

这很公平。

That's that's fair.

确实公平。

That's fair.

是啊。

Yeah.

但真正有意识地规划时间，我认为对我来说，击剑的各个方面都可以归类划分。

But really being intentional with my time, I think that all of these aspects of fencing for me are compartmentalized into categories.

所以虽然击剑是将一切串联起来的纽带，但对我来说并不全是关于击剑。

So although fencing is the umbrella that chains it all together, it's not all fencing to me.

我们现在进行的这些对话，对我来说，它们并不属于击剑范畴。

These conversations that we have right now, for me, they don't register as fencing.

这更像是运动心理学的衍生话题，我既能分享自己的故事，也能与人探讨心态问题。

This is registered as some derivative of sports psychology, where I get to share my story, but also talk about mentality with people.

对吧？

Right?

这与击剑相关，但并不全是击剑，因为这类东西确实能在运动之外帮到你。

And that's related to fencing, but it's not all fencing because this type of stuff really helps you outside of the sport.

然后是内容创作。

Then there is the content.

那只是品牌建设。

That's just brand building.

那很有趣。

That's fun.

你在剪辑视频。

You're you're editing videos.

你在与人共同创作。

You're creating with people.

那更像是艺术，尽管击剑是主题内容。

That's more art, even though fencing is, you know, the subject matter.

然后才是击剑本身。

Then there is the actual fencing itself.

这部分包括比赛、击剑等等。

Part of that is the game, the fencing, all that stuff.

但对我来说，它也是运动，是锻炼。

But then for me, it's also sport, it's exercise.

我喜欢燃烧卡路里，喜欢挑战自我，这是更全面的，它包含了一切。

I like burning calories, I love pushing myself, and then that's the more all encompassing, it's it's everything.

但还有参加比赛的旅行，这完全是另一回事。

But then there's traveling to competitions, which is totally separate.

我不认为那只是击剑。

I don't think of that as just fencing.

那完全是你在锻炼的另一块肌肉。

That is a whole separate muscle that you're working on.

我想教练方面更多是关于人，与人合作，培养他人也提升自己。

And there is I think that's probably it for the or the coaching aspect is a lot more about people and working with people and growing people and growing yourself.

所以我认为有意识地去理解每项任务的目标非常重要。

So I think being intentional and understanding, like, what your goal is with each one of these tasks, it is really important.

你不需要完成无数任务才能获得满足感。

And you don't have to have a million tasks to get the fulfillment.

我认为即使你只是在练习击剑、上学或工作，理解你正在做的事情的意图也很重要，哪怕只是一次训练，对吧？

I think even if you're just fencing and doing school or working or whatever, I think understanding the intention of what it is you're doing, even for a practice, right?

我来这里只是为了玩吗？

Am I here to just play?

我来这里是为了练习获胜吗？

Am I here to practice winning?

我来这里是为了练习我刚在课程中学到的东西吗？

Am I here to work on the things that I just did in my lesson?

我来这里是为了练习坚韧或强度的时刻吗？

Am I here to practice moments of grit or intensity?

这其中包含太多不同的层次了。

And there's so many different layers to it.

我来这里是为了练习我的第四式防守，你知道的，无论具体是什么。

Am I here to practice my parry four, you know, whatever it is.