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想在2026年变得更强壮吗？
Wanna get strong in 2026?
结果发现你不需要每周在健身房花几个小时。
Turns out you don't need to spend hours at the gym every week.
每周只进行一次30到45分钟的训练，每个动作做一到两组，就已经相当有效了。
Just one session thirty to forty five minutes a week doing about one or two sets per exercise, that can be quite effective.
有效。
Effective.
如何开始力量训练？
How to get started with strength training?
本周在《Life Kid》播客中。
This week on the Life Kid Podcast.
请在NPR应用或你收听播客的任何平台收听。
Listen in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
嗨。
Hi.
我是特里·格罗斯。
It's Teri Gross.
不知怎的，我们已经快到2025年底了。
Somehow, we're almost at the end of 2025.
对许多人、对美国国家公共电台以及所有公共广播电台来说，这都是艰难的一年，因为联邦政府取消了对公共媒体的所有资金支持。
It's been a rough year for a lot of people and for NPR and all public radio stations because of the elimination of all federal funding for public media.
尽管面临这一损失以及对新闻自由的攻击，我们依然在这里为您服务。
Despite that loss and despite attacks on the free press, we are still here for you.
我们将坚持行使第一修正案所保障的编辑独立权。
We will not shy away from exercising the right to editorial independence guaranteed by the First Amendment.
在您的支持下，我们不会被噤声。
And with your support, we will not be silenced.
美国国家公共电台将继续无畏无偏地报道新闻。
NPR will keep reporting the news without fear or favor.
在《新鲜空气》节目中，我们将继续为您带来对调查记者的访谈，揭示我们这个时代一些最重要的故事，以及对作家、演员、导演、音乐家、作曲家、科学家、健康专家、宗教学者等的访谈。
And here at Fresh Air, we will keep bringing you interviews with investigative reporters, uncovering some of the most important stories of our time, as well as interviews with authors, actors, directors, musicians, composers, scientists, health experts, religion scholars, and more.
如果您已经是NPR Plus的支持者，非常感谢您。
If you're already an NPR Plus supporter, thank you so much.
我们非常感激您。
We're so grateful for you.
如果您还不是，请在年底之前加入公共广播支持者社区，访问 +.npr.org。
If not, please join the community of public radio supporters now before the end of the year at +.npr.org.
注册后您将获得诸多福利，比如NPR旗下所有播客的额外剧集，包括我们的节目，同时您在收听时也能为公共媒体的支持感到欣慰。
Signing up unlocks a bunch of perks like bonus episodes and more from across NPR's podcasts, including ours, and you get to feel good about supporting public media while you listen.
我知道现在日子不容易，但如果您有能力提供支持，请在年底之际投资于一项对您重要的公共服务，并知道我们多么感激您的付出。
I know times are hard, but if you're in a position to give, please end the year by investing in a public service that matters to you and know how much we appreciate you for it.
请直接访问 +.npr.org。
Just go to +.npr.org.
网址是 +.npr.org。
That's +.npr.org.
非常感谢您。
Thank you so much.
这里是《新鲜空气》。
This is Fresh Air.
我是塔尼娅·莫斯利。
I'm Tanya Moseley.
今天，我们继续推出年终回顾系列，精选2025年一些最喜爱的访谈，其中包括这段十月份录制的对话。
Today, we continue our end of the year retrospective featuring some of our favorite interviews of 2025, including this one, which was recorded in October.
大学通常是人们探索自我、初次坠入爱河、尝试新事物、经历失败、质疑信仰的时期。
College is often a time to figure out who we are, to fall in love for the first time, to experiment, to fail, to question what we believe.
但对于马拉拉·优素福扎伊来说，情况却不同。
But for Malala Yousafzai, it was different.
她在大学期间，所有这些经历都在公众审视和24小时安保的环境下度过。
She spent her college years experiencing all of these things under scrutiny and twenty four hour security.
15岁时，马拉拉在乘坐校车回家途中遭到塔利班枪击，头部中弹，幸免于难。
When she was 15, Malala survived an assassination attempt by the Taliban, a gunshot to the head while riding home on a school bus.
但早在那之前，她就已经开始反抗塔利班，为家乡明戈拉及巴基斯坦斯瓦特山谷的女孩争取受教育的权利。
But long before that, she'd been standing up to them, demanding the right for girls to go to school in her hometown of Mingora and Pakistan's Swat Valley.
塔利班已经掌控了局势，关闭学校，禁止女性参与公共生活，并残酷惩罚任何反抗者。
The Taliban had taken control, closing schools, banning women from public life, and brutally punishing anyone who resisted.
遭枪击后，马拉拉的生活一夜之间改变了。
After the shooting, Malala's life changed overnight.
她成为了一名抵抗象征，受到赞誉、政治化和细致审视。
She became a symbol of resistance, praised, politicized, and picked apart.
当世界看到一位坚定有力、传递信息的年轻女性时，马拉拉也是一名正在接受手术以修复塔利班造成的伤害、经历创伤后应激障碍，并应对他人对她应成为何种人的期待的少女。
While the world saw an unshakable young woman with a message, Malala was also a teenager undergoing surgeries to reconstruct what was destroyed by
的
the
塔利班，经历创伤后应激障碍，并应对他人对她应成为何种人的期待。
Taliban, experiencing post traumatic stress, and navigating others' expectations of who she should be.
她的新回忆录《寻找自我》揭示了象征背后的真实人物。
Her new memoir, finding my way, reveals the person beyond the symbol.
这是一个年轻马拉拉探索自由女性意义的故事——第一次试穿牛仔裤、坠入爱河、考试失利，并直面那场长期令她失忆的枪击创伤。
It's the story of a young Malala learning the bounds of what it means to be a free woman, trying on jeans for the first time, falling in love, failing exams, and confronting the trauma of a shooting that for a long time she had no memory of.
马拉拉·优素福扎伊因致力于反对压制儿童并倡导他们的教育，于2014年获得诺贝尔和平奖。
Malala Yousafzai won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2014 for her efforts to combat the suppression of children and advocate for their education.
她撰写了多本书籍，包括《我是马拉拉》和《我们是流离失所者：难民的真实故事》。
She's written several books, including I Am Malala and We Are Displaced, True Stories of Refugee Lives.
2015年的纪录片《他为我取名马拉拉》记录了她家人 activism 的历程。
The 2015 documentary, He Named Me Malala, chronicles her family's activism.
马拉拉·优素福扎伊，欢迎来到《新鲜空气》节目。
Malala Yousafzai, welcome to Fresh Air.
谢谢。
Thank you.
这本回忆录在某种程度上、在很多方面，延续了你第一本回忆录的叙事。
This memoir, in a way, in many ways, picks up where your first memoir left off.
让我们设身处地想想，这里存在着如此鲜明的对比，这多么了不起——你正要进入大学。
Just to, like, put ourselves in this place, I mean, such a dichotomy here because and how remarkable this is because here you are entering college.
我的意思是，你17岁就获得了诺贝尔奖。
I mean, you won the Nobel Prize at 17.
因此，这是一个令人难以置信的荣誉，我知道你为此感到无比自豪，但正如你所说，它也伴随着巨大的责任——你必须始终无愧于自己所经历的一切、所取得的成就以及这一切所代表的意义。
So it's an unbelievable honor that I know you take great pride in, but it also comes, as you say, with this tremendous responsibility to always live up to all that you had endured and what you've, what you've accomplished, what it represents.
这种期望是否在某种程度上也让你感到像被关在笼子里？
Did that expectation also feel like a cage in a way?
你希望进入大学时，几乎能成为一个默默无闻的人。
Like, you you wanted to come into college almost as an anonymous person.
去牛津大学是我童年的梦想，我想做真实的自己，交尽可能多的朋友。
Going to Oxford was my childhood dream, and I wanted to be myself, make as many friends.
但我觉得，有了这些头衔和认可，比如诺贝尔和平奖，我就觉得自己必须表现得不一样。
But I think with these titles and recognitions, like the Nobel Peace Prize, I thought I had to act differently.
因为你知道，获得这些荣誉的人通常年纪都大得多，他们一般都在五六十岁。
And because, you know, a lot of the people who receive these titles are are much older in in their life, and they you know, they they're usually in their fifties, sixties.
他们通常已经建立了家庭生活。
They have, you know, like, a family life already established.
我是在化学课上得知自己获得诺贝尔和平奖的。
I received the Nobel Peace Prize when I was in my chemistry class.
所以，我还是个学生。
So, you know, I I was still I was still a school student.
所以我把它看作巨大的责任，我一直觉得现在我必须达到这些期望。
So I see it as a big responsibility, and I always have felt that now I need to live up to the expectation.
你知道，这个奖是颁给我过去所做工作的，但它也是颁给未来我们即将完成的工作。
You know, it was given for the work I had done, but it was also given for the work that that is ahead of us.
所以对我来说，我必须用余生去努力，证明这个奖实至名归。
So for me now, like, I have to work for the rest of my life to prove that it was well deserved.
对我来说，这意味着看到女孩教育的梦想在世界每一个角落成为现实。
And and for me, that is just, you know, seeing this dream of girl's education becoming a reality in every part of the world.
但与此同时，我想，好吧。
But at the same time, I thought, okay.
难道你必须改变自己吗？
Like, but do you have to change as a person?
你是否应该过某种特定的生活？
Like, are you supposed to live a certain way?
但在大学里，这是我第一次允许自己更真实地做自己，去真正地探索。
In college, though, this was the first time that I allowed myself to be more of myself, to really just test it.
说实话，我甚至不知道自己是谁。
And and to be honest, I didn't even know who I was.
我有趣吗？
Am I funny?
我还是不有趣？
Am I not?
我喜欢什么？
What do I enjoy?
这些我全都不知道。
Like, I didn't know any of that.
我从未见过和我同龄的男孩。
I have never seen boys my age.
我从未离开过父母，也从未独自生活过。
I have never, you know, been away from my parents or lived on my own.
我可以做决定。
I can decide.
我可以去参加排灯节派对。
I can go to a a Diwali party.
我可以熬夜到凌晨三点，而我的父母根本不会知道这件事。
I can stay up late at 3AM and no you know, like, my parents would would not know about this.
我可以报名参加赛艇，或者去参加八十年代主题的有氧舞蹈派对，随便哪个都行。
And, you know, I could sign up for rowing, or I could go to the aerobics eighties themed party, any of that.
我们都可以做这些事。
We could do all of that.
我莫名觉得，自己正在重历童年时期因过早参与 activism 而错过的所有时光。
I was somehow feeling that I was reliving all the missed years of my childhood because of the activism that I had to take from such a young age that I missed.
有没有某个特定时刻，让你在大学里突然意识到：等等。
Was there a particular moment when you realized, you're at college, when you realized, wait a minute.
我可以做任何我想做的事。
I I could do whatever I want.
你知道吗？
You know?
你知道吗，我经常想起爬屋顶的经历，因为那是大学里一个陌生人告诉我的，说有个特别疯狂的事，只有酷酷的大学生才会做。
You know, I think about the roof climbing experience oftentimes because that was offered to me by a stranger at college who told me that there is this crazy thing that only cool college students do.
他邀请了我，我就说，好吧。
And he offered it to me, and I said, okay.
午夜见。
I'll I'll see you at midnight.
我跟保安说，我今天忙完了，你们可以去睡觉了。
I told my security, like, I I'm I'm done for the day, and you guys can go to sleep.
所以你当时想说的是
So this where you were wanna note for
你们要知道，我那里有24小时安保，因为
folks that you had twenty four hour security because
是的。
Yes.
在那段时期以及你被枪击后的几年里，你收到了大量针对你生命的威胁。
During this time period and the years after you were shot, you received lots of threats against your life.
这就是为什么你除了像美国许多国家元首那样拥有24小时安保之外，还额外配备了安保。
That's why you had twenty four hour security in addition in the same way that many heads of state have security in The United States.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，有人一直跟着你，这有点尴尬，但与此同时，这也让我有机会去体验这些事情，而不用担心安全问题。
I mean, it was awkward to have, like, guys following you, but at the same time, it just helped me have the opportunity to experience these things and not be worried about safety and security.
所以，是的。
So yeah.
但那个夜晚，也就是爬屋顶的夜晚，我告诉他们，我觉得我自己一个人会很安全。
But for that night, the roof climbing night, I told them, I think I'm gonna be safe on my own.
我说，你们去睡觉吧。
I said, you guys can go to bed.
所以现在是午夜了。
So it's it's midnight.
我跟着那个陌生人。
I follow the stranger.
我们上了大楼的四楼，房间里有一个小窗户。
We go up to the 4th Floor of the building, and there's a small window in this room.
他告诉我，我们需要从窗户偷偷溜出去，然后沿着屋顶上一条狭窄的小路行走。
And he tells me that we need to sneak out through the window and then walk by this narrow path on the on the roof.
一步走错，你就可能摔下去。
One misstep and you could fall.
我只是点头，跟着他，一路上到屋顶，真的非常吓人。
And I am just nodding, and I and I follow him, and it was really scary wave making up making it up to the rooftop.
在屋顶上，有一个钟楼一样的塔楼。
And on the rooftop, there's this bell tower, like the clock tower.
那一刻感觉非常不真实。
And that moment just felt surreal.
我只是觉得，我好像征服了什么。
I just thought I had, like, conquered something.
我呼吸着新鲜空气，低头看着一些学生深夜仍亮着灯的房间，心想他们或许还在赶论文，或正感受着片刻的胜利。
I was breathing in the the fresh air, and I was looking down just seeing some students still up at night or the lights were still on in some rooms, and I was thinking maybe that they are still trying to finish their essay or just feeling a a moment of of victory.
我非常害怕自己会因此被学校开除，而且这事发生得这么快。
And I was so scared that I might be, like, kicked out of college for this and it and this happening so soon.
所以我极度恐惧，作为一个教育的倡导者，却惹上麻烦被开除。
So I was terrified that being an advocate for education and then getting in trouble and being kicked out.
你觉得是什么让你的心如此坚定地踏上这段独立的旅程？
What do you think it was about that that, like, really set your heart on this independent journey?
这简直就像一次濒死体验。
Like, that it's almost like another near death experience.
对我来说，只是想违背规则。
I think for me, it was just wanting to disobey rules.
我觉得自己必须达到别人的期望，必须表现得完美，绝不能惹麻烦。
I thought I had to live up to expectations and be a certain way I could never get in trouble.
如果这件事能让我归入酷小孩或叛逆小孩的类别，我就想试试看。
I thought if if this is something that puts me in the cool kids category or the rebellious kids category, I want to give it a try.
我想让大学这几年成为我 otherwise 永远不会经历的体验。
Like, I I wanted these college years to be that experience that I otherwise would would never come across.
你确实在大学里经历了很多学生都会经历的事情，包括吸毒。
You really did experience a lot of things in college that many students do, including getting high.
你在大学的春天，也就是在牛津的第一年，和朋友们在一起。
You your spring year of college, first year at Oxford, you're with friends.
你们像普通大学生一样闲逛，有人给你提供了大麻，具体来说是一个水烟壶。
You're hanging out as college kids do, and you're offered marijuana, specifically a bong.
你和朋友们一起参与了。
And you join in with your friends.
随着时间推移，你出现了反应。
And as the hours tick on, you have a reaction.
你走不了路了。
You can't walk.
眼前一片漆黑。
Everything goes black.
你意识到，这是一个非常熟悉的地方。
And this, you realize, is a very familiar place.
你能念一下书中关于这件事的描述吗？
Could I have you read what you wrote about it in the book?
突然间，我仿佛又变成了15岁，躺在一张白床单下，一根管子插在喉咙里，双眼紧闭。
Suddenly, I was 15 years old again, lying on my back under a white sheet, a tube running down my throat, eyes closed.
连续七天，医生们治疗我的伤口时，我一直处于昏迷状态。
For seven days, as doctors tended to my wounds, I was in a coma.
从外表看，我像是在深度睡眠，但我的内心却清醒着，脑海中不断播放着最近事件的幻灯片。
From the outside, I looked to be in a deep sleep, but inside my mind was awake and it played a slideshow of recent events.
我的校车、一个持枪的男人、到处是血、我的身体被抬过拥挤的街道、陌生人俯身在我上方大喊着我听不懂的话，我父亲冲向担架握住我的手。
My school bus, a man with a gun, blood everywhere, my body carried through a crowded streets, strangers hunched over me yelling things I didn't understand, My father rushing toward the stretcher to take my hand.
这些画面一遍又一遍地以相同顺序重复，我愤怒地反抗，试图将它们赶走。
As the images repeated in the same sequence over and over, I raged against them trying to beat them away.
这并不是真的。
This isn't true.
我对自己说。
I told myself.
真正的马拉拉是被困在这场噩梦中的人，而不是担架上的那个女孩。
The real Malala is the one trapped in this nightmare, not the girl on the stretcher.
只要醒过来，这一切就会停止。
Just wake up and it will stop.
醒过来。
Wake up.
我曾试图强迫自己睁开眼睛，好看到一些不同于这恐怖循环的画面。
I had tried to force my eyes open to see something other than this carousel of horrors.
在内心，我尖叫着。
Inside, I screamed.
在外部，我的嘴唇紧闭，一动不动。
Outside, my lips stayed closed, motionless.
我醒着，却被活埋在自己身体的棺材里。
I was awake and buried alive in the coffin of my body.
很难读懂。
It's hard to read.
是的。
Yes.
很难读懂它。
It's hard to read it.
嗯。
Yeah.
王事件，你知道，结果跟我想象的完全不一样。
The Wong incident, you know, just just turned out to be an experience not that I had imagined.
我听说过一些关于它的很棒的事，当然，每个人的情况都不一样。
I had heard cool things about it, and and, of course, you know, like, it's different for everybody.
但在我看来，这背后有一种未被处理的创伤。
But I think in my case, there was this unaddressed trauma.
那段记忆、那些画面，所有的一切，我想一直都在那里。
The memory, the visuals, everything, I think, had been there.
我的大脑试图压抑这些记忆，因为你知道，那只是你不想再经历的一刻恐惧。
My brain had tried to suppress them because, you know, it's it's just a moment of fear that you do not want to see again.
当炸弹事件发生时，我的身体僵住了，我重新经历了塔利班的袭击。
And and when the bomb incident happened, my body froze, and I I was reliving the Taliban attack.
我，你知道，我能看见那个持枪者。
I I, you know, I could see the gunman.
我以为这一切又重演了。
I thought this is happening all over again.
我经常说，我接受了手术，并且从塔利班袭击中迅速康复了。
I often, you know, say that I received my surgeries, and I recovered so quickly from the Taliban attack.
但就在这件事发生时，我意识到也许我实际上并没有完全康复。
But just when this happened, I realized that maybe I actually had not fully recovered.
我的康复过程中有一个未被处理的部分，那就是心理健康，也就是我们在治疗过程中根本没有计入的创伤。
There was this unaddressed part of my recovery, which was mental health, which was the trauma that we did not, actually count in the in the treatment process.
你经历了一些黑暗的时刻。
There are some dark moments that you experienced.
那天晚上之后，你开始经历这些挥之不去的念头，即使兴奋感消退后它们依然持续。
After that night, you started to experience these intrusive thoughts that didn't stop even after the high went away.
你提到自己害怕厨房里的刀，不是担心别人会用它伤害你，而是担心自己会用它伤害自己。
You described being afraid of a kitchen knife, not that someone would hurt you with it, but that you might hurt yourself.
当我读到这些时，我一直在想，这个人可是被世界称为地球上最勇敢的女孩。
And I just kept thinking as I was reading this for someone the world has called the bravest girl on earth.
突然间，你开始害怕自己的双手、害怕自己，那是一种怎样的感受？
What what was it like to suddenly be frightened of your own hands, of your own self?
这很可怕。
It was frightening.
即使到现在，每当我想到这些，那真是一种令人极度恐惧的状态。
And even now, like, when I think about it, it's it's just it's a really frightening place to be in.
你感到被困住了。
You feel trapped.
你看不到任何出路。
You do not see a way out.
那正是我那几天所经历的一切。
That's exactly what I was going through in those days.
你知道吗，我当时一直在发抖。
I you know, I I would be I I was shaking.
我每分钟都在发抖。
I was shaking every minute.
我无法直视任何危险物品。
I could not look at harmful objects.
我无法看任何刀具。
I could not look at a knife.
我无法观看任何提及谋杀、有人被杀、被枪击或受伤的新闻。
I could not watch news that said anything about murdering people or or or, you know, or somebody being killed or shot or wounded.
我对自己感到非常失望，一个曾经直面塔利班枪手的人，如今却害怕这些小事。
I I I just felt so disappointed with myself that somebody who actually faced a Taliban gunman was somehow now scared of these small things.
这一切都是一些微不足道的小事，对我来说完全说不通。
It was all, like, trivial stuff that it it made no sense to me.
我以为自己失去了勇气，不够勇敢，一生中获得的所有头衔，让我觉得必须配得上它们。
And I thought that I had lost my courage, that I was not brave enough, the titles I had received my whole life, and I thought I had to live up to them.
我感觉自己是个冒牌货。
I felt like an impostor.
然后我的一个朋友建议我去看看心理治疗师。
And then one of my friends suggested that I see a therapist.
她说很多大学生在大学期间都会接受心理治疗，她自己也在看心理治疗师，而我对此有些怀疑。
She said that a lot of students actually get therapy in college, that she herself is seeing a therapist, and I was a bit skeptical.
我也觉得心理治疗师不会理解我正在经历的事情。
I also thought a therapist would not understand what I'm going through.
对。
Right.
因为她告诉我，我应该试一试。
Because she said, it's I should give it a try.
嗯。
Yeah.
因为你的父母不相信心理咨询。
Because your parents didn't believe in therapy.
我想你父亲说过，只有完全无法正常生活的人才需要心理咨询师。
I think your father said, only a completely nonfunctioning person needs a therapist.
所以你要克服很多障碍才能真正去寻求帮助。
So there was a lot that you needed to get over to to actually seek one.
是的。
Yes.
你知道吗，在巴基斯坦长大时，我们从未听说过心理咨询和心理健康，而现在这些话题已经变得普遍并被接受。
You know, growing up in Pakistan, we had not heard about therapy and mental health that now we are hearing where it's been accepted as as a normal conversation.
人们开始公开谈论它。
People are opening up about it.
而且我们在心理健康方面甚至没有多少支持。
It you know, and we don't even have that much support around mental health.
这对你有帮助吗？
Has it helped you?
治疗确实帮助了我。
Therapy has definitely helped me.
我记得第一次治疗时，我向我的治疗师倾诉了我所有的问题——过去的、现在的，以及可能的未来问题。
I remember the first session where I told my therapist all my problems, past, present, potential future ones.
然后我说，好吧。
And I said, okay.
就像，现在给我开点药吧。
Like, now give me some medication.
我们怎么解决它？
How do we fix it?
她深吸了一口气，说，你知道吗，治疗不是这样的。
And she took a deep breath, she said, you know, this is not how therapy works.
她告诉我，我患有创伤后应激障碍和焦虑症，这是我第一次真正听到‘创伤后应激障碍’这个词。
And she told me that I had PTSD and an anxiety, and this was, like, the first time that I actually heard the word PTSD.
你知道，我之前听过这个词，出现在一些不同的语境中，但我想，嗯，好吧。
You know, people I I had come up like, I had heard it in in a few different contexts, but I thought, you know, okay.
我经历过创伤，但我认为我没有 PTSD。
I've faced a trauma, but I I think I don't have PTSD.
但七年之后，PTSD 出现了。
But seven years later, PTSD appeared.
我知道了一件事：当人们谈论创伤经历时，PTSD 或心理健康问题并不一定会立即出现。
And, you know, I learned something that when people think talk about, like, a traumatic experience, it's not necessary that PTSD or the mental health issues appear immediately.
它们可能在七年、十年后才出现。
It they could appear seven years later, ten years later.
你永远无法预料。
Like, you never know.
这种情况就发生在我身上。
And that happened in my case.
我们来谈谈爱情。
Let's talk about love.
你写道，你曾说服自己永远不会约会，永远不会结婚，会像一个穆斯林修女一样。
You write that you'd convinced yourself you'd never date, you'd never marry, that you'd be like a, quote, like a nun but Muslim.
嗯。
Mhmm.
一旦你走出了自我，你和你现在的丈夫阿萨普陷入了热恋，关于这一切都可以在这本书里读到。
Once you got past yourself and you and your now husband, Asarp, fell madly in love, which books can read all about it in this book.
但你长期以来一直抗拒婚姻。
But you were resistant to marriage for a long time.
那你为什么反对婚姻呢？
Where why were you against marriage?
我的成长经历中，见过很多女孩因为早早结婚而失去了完成学业的机会，甚至失去了成为医生或工程师的梦想。
I mean, growing up, I had seen many girls lose the opportunity to complete their education and and, you know, just their dreams to become a doctor engineer because they were married off.
所以，婚姻是我最不想去想的事情。
So, like, marriage, I that was, like, the last thing I wanted to think about.
我不想过结婚。
I did not want to get married.
这根本不是什么好事。
It was like was it was not a cool thing.
如果你希望作为一个女孩拥有未来，你就得尽可能长时间地远离婚姻。
If you wanted to have a future as a girl, you wanted to keep yourself away from marriage for as long as you could.
因为即使到了你人生的后期，婚姻也意味着女性要做出更多妥协——你必须适应丈夫的家庭，只能祈祷丈夫是个善良、尊重人的人。
Because even later in your life, it it just meant, like, more compromises for women that, you know, you had to readjust to the husband's family, and you just had to pray that the husband turns out to be a nice, respectful person.
我记得当我开始考虑自己的婚姻时，第一次站在了我妈妈的角度思考。
I I remember when I was thinking about marriage for myself, I put myself in my mom's shoes for the first time.
我以前从未从她的角度想过任何事情。
I had never thought about anything from her perspective before.
我一直都很钦佩我的父亲，想要追随他的脚步等等。
And I, you know, I would always admire my dad, and I wanted to, like, follow his footsteps and all of that.
但这是第一次，我开始想知道，当妈妈决定结婚时，她的生活会是什么样子。
But this was the first time I I wondered what life would have been like for my mom when she decided to marry.
她是如何信任一个她甚至都不了解的男人，决定搬进他的家、嫁给他、重新开始新生活的？
How did she trust this this guy she had not even known and decided to, like, move into his house and and and be married off and restart a new life.
于是我问了妈妈，她小时候的梦想是什么。
And I asked my mom actually what were were her dreams when she was a kid.
她说，你知道，我只是想找一个尊重我的丈夫，能带我去城里吃好吃的，开车到处逛。
And she said, you know, I just wanted to find a husband who would be respectful and I can go into the city and, like, have nice food and, like, drive around in a car.
我意识到，我妈妈甚至没有为自己设想过梦想，婚姻对她来说是一种获得自由的方式，比现在多一点点自由。
And I realized that my mom didn't even have a dream for herself, that marriage was a way for her to find some sort of freedom, a little more freedom than she had right now.
所以那是一个相当奇妙的时期。
So it was sort of a fascinating time.
当我见到阿萨尔时，我立刻爱上了他。
When I saw Asar, I immediately fell in love with him.
我知道我想和他在一起。
I knew that I wanted to be with him.
我知道我们必须结婚，因为我们的文化中，两个人要在一起，就必须结婚。
And I knew that we had to be married because in our culture, for two people to be together, you have to be married.
但婚姻对我来说却成了一件非常沉重的事情。
So but then marriage just felt like a very heavy topic for me.
我甚至去读了一些书。
I even went to read some books.
是的。
Yes.
你读了
You read a
很多关于女权主义和婚姻的书。
lot of books about feminism and marriage.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yes.
我心想：拜托了，弗吉尼亚·伍尔夫，帮帮我吧。
I was like, please, Virginia Woolf, help me.
贝尔·胡克斯，你能分享几句智慧的话吗？
Bell Hooks, can you can you share a few words of wisdom?
嗯，你在他面前列了一份问题清单
Well, you made this list of questions for him before
是的。
Yes.
你嫁给他。
You marry him.
我的意思是，你问他关于忠诚的问题，问他是否会控制你穿什么，是否会娶另一个妻子。
I mean, you asked him about fidelity, about whether he'd control what you wear, whether he'd take another wife.
这些都是你需要了解的实际考量。
These were real considerations that you had to know.
但你是在试图获取保证。
You were trying to extract guarantees, though.
他试图给你这些保证，但他随后对你说了一些非常深刻的话。
And he tried to give them to you, but then he said something to you that that was really kinda profound.
他说，没有魔法般的言辞能消除你所有的疑虑。
He said there are no magic words to take away all of your doubts.
为什么这个回答让你最终意识到，这正是你应该迈出的一步？
Why was that the right answer for you to kinda come to the realization that this was the step that you should take?
嗯。
Yeah.
我的意思是，可怜的阿萨尔，我问他了所有我能想到的、关于我所见过或听说过的可怕事情的问题。
I mean, like, poor Asar, I was asking him every possible question about every horrible things that I had seen or heard about.
比如，丈夫不许妻子工作。
Like, you know, a husband doesn't allow his wife to work.
丈夫的问题是妻子赚的钱比他多。
A husband has a problem that the wife earns more money.
丈夫认为他可以娶多个妻子之类的事情。
The husband is of this view that he can marry, like, more wives or or things like that.
而且他还觉得，训斥妻子、让她必须遵守他的规矩，这些都没问题。
And he is, you know, okay with, like, telling the wife off or, like, that she has to live by his rules and all of that.
所以我问，谁知道呢？
So I said, who knows?
我知道他是个好人，但谁知道呢？
Like, I know he's a nice guy, but who knows?
我认为最好获得口头确认。
I think it's better to get a verbal confirmation.
这只是我们所有人都携带的恐惧。
It's it's just the fear, the fear that we all carry.
我知道我是一个非常独立的人。
I knew that I was a very independent person.
我不需要丈夫。
I did not need a husband.
literally，我真的不需要他。
Like, literally, I did not need him.
但我想要他，而且我想确保这值得我花时间。
But I wanted him, and I wanted to make sure that this was, like, worth my time.
但当他，你知道，当他这么说时，那些答案根本无法消除我的所有疑虑。
But when he, you know, when he said that that, you know, no answers would clear all my doubts.
我觉得他是对的。
I think he was right.
这是真的。
It was true.
因为即使他在回答时，我心中仍然有一丝犹豫。
Because even when he was answering, I still had that little hesitation in my heart.
但我真正喜欢的是他回答这些问题的方式。
But what I really loved was just the way he was answering those questions.
他非常有耐心。
He was very patient.
他给了我时间。
He gave me time.
你知道，这个关于婚姻的对话已经持续一段时间了，但他允许我去进行研究、与人交谈，好好地花时间思考。
I you know, this marriage conversation started like a while ago, but he allowed me to go and do my research and talk to people and just, like, take my time off.
今天的嘉宾是马拉拉·优素福扎伊。
My guest today is Malala Yousafzai.
我们正在讨论她的新回忆录《寻找我的路》。
We're talking about her new memoir, finding my way.
短暂休息后，我们马上回来。
We'll be right back after a short break.
我是塔尼娅·莫斯利，欢迎收听《新鲜空气》。
I'm Tanya Moseley, and this is fresh air.
如果公共广播不再像这样播音，会怎样？
What if public radio stopped sounding like this?
来自华盛顿NPR新闻现场，我是诺拉·罗姆。
Live from NPR News in Washington, I'm Nora Rom.
而开始像这样播音。
And started sounding like this.
NPR正在尽一切努力维持这项值得信赖的免费公共服务。
NPR is doing everything possible to keep this trusted and free public service going.
在您的支持下，我们不会沉默。
With your support, we will not be silent.
请今天访问 donate.npr.org 捐赠。
Please give today at donate.npr.org.
谢谢。
Thanks.
在《Radiolab》，我们最喜欢的就是沉迷于科学、神经科学和化学。
At Radiolab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry.
但但我们确实也喜欢
But but we do also like
讲述其他类型的故事。
to get into other kinds of stories.
关于警察或政治的故事。
Stories about policing or Politics.
乡村音乐。
Country music.
曲棍球。
Hockey.
昆虫的性别。
Sex of bugs.
无论我们关注的是科学还是非科学，我们都以严谨的好奇心为您寻找答案。
Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers.
并希望让您以全新的视角看待这个世界。
And hopefully, make you see the world anew.
《Radiolab》，探索我们自以为已知之界的冒险。
Radiolab, adventures on the edge of what we think we know.
无论您在何处收听播客。
Wherever you get your podcasts.
当我们告别2025年时，我们的记者们正在回顾过去一年中报道过的最令人难忘的国际新闻。
As we say goodbye to 2025, our reporters are looking back at some of the most memorable international stories they covered in the last year.
从非洲一座从战争中复苏的城市，到坚韧的印度海龟，从获得解放的难民，到反抗的奥地利修女。
From a city in Africa emerging from war to resilient Indian turtles, liberated refugees to defiant Austrian nuns.
过去一年的全球精选内容。
Global favorites from the last year.
请在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听《世界现状》。
Listen to State of the World on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
NPR及以下内容的支持来自雅尔和帕梅拉·莫恩，感谢每天让公共广播变得伟大的人们，也感谢所有听众。
Support for NPR and the following message come from Yarl and Pamela Mohn, thanking the people who make public radio great every day and also those who listen.
马拉拉，我想和你聊聊你的父母。
Malala, I wanna talk to you a bit about your parents.
我们很多人都了解你父亲的故事。
Many of us know your father's story.
他是一位教育者，培养你敢于发声。
He's an educator who raised you to speak up.
在公众叙事中，你的母亲显得较为低调。
Your mother is quieter in the public narrative.
但在这本书中，她却十分复杂。
And in this book, though, she's complex.
她曾救过一个被强迫结婚的女孩。
She once saved a girl from forced marriage.
所以她确实拥有这样的认知：无论自己拥有怎样的力量，她也在某种程度上——你会称她为一位沉默的行动者吗？虽然不像你父亲那样公开活跃，但她依然深信不疑？
So she did have that understanding that whatever power she had, she also was, in a way, would you call her a silent activist, not as vocal and open as your father, but still believing nonetheless?
我妈妈更倾向于行动派。
My mom is more an action driven person.
我妈妈帮助了无数女性和女孩。
My mom has helped so many women and girls.
我记得在巴基斯坦生活时，有个女孩被强奸后怀孕了。
I remember this this girl in Pakistan when when when we were living there who was raped, and she became pregnant.
我妈妈救了她的命。
And my mom saved her life.
我妈妈救了她的命。
My mom saved her life.
她带她去做了流产。
She took her for an abortion.
当时，我并不理解这一切。
And I at the time, I did not understand any of that.
但现在回想起来，我觉得我妈妈做出了如此勇敢的举动，而当我问起她对某些事情的看法时，她可能并不会给出与她实际行为完全一致的答案。
But, like, now when I reflect on it, I think, you know, my mom took such a brave step that it's you know, if I ask her about her opinions on certain things, like, may not give us she, like, she she may not give an answer that truly reflects her her actions.
但对她来说，这关乎女孩的安全与保护，以及我们如何帮助她们、保护她们免受所面临伤害。
But for her, it is about the the safety and the protection of girls and how, you know, how we can how we can help them and protect them from the harm and the that they face.
你们的父母都无比勇敢，但你也把他们描述为‘别人会怎么想’这样的人。
Both of them both of your parents have been fiercely brave, but you also describe them as what will people think people.
我觉得这种描述方式非常有趣。
And I I found that to be such an interesting way to describe it.
我想很多人都能产生共鸣。
I think a lot of people can connect to that.
你是如何同时理解父母的这两种特质的——他们既无比勇敢，又非常在意他人的看法？
How do you hold both of those truths about your parents, being fiercely brave, but also very concerned with the opinions of others.
我妈妈的童年和我的完全不同。
My mom had a very different childhood than mine.
她从未上过学。
She never went to school.
她的女性朋友也都从未上过学。
Her female friends never went to school.
当时，女孩不接受教育是正常且理所当然的。
It was actually normal and expected for a girl not to be educated.
她对自己最好的期望，就是嫁入一个丈夫稍微善良一些的家庭，能让她吃上自己喜欢的食物，或者带她去一两个她喜欢的地方，这就是她所有的希望。
The best that she dreamed for herself was to be married into a family where the husband is a bit kind and just lets her have her favorite food or just takes her to one of her, like, favorite places to visit, that's all that she hoped for.
只要不是那种可怕、 abusive 的婆家或丈夫就行。
And that it doesn't turn out to be a horrible, abusive kind of in law's family or a husband.
当我想到这些时，我就觉得，我妈妈的经历并不容易。
And, you know, when I think about it, I'm like, you know, my mom's journey was not easy.
她总是说，她非常幸运能遇到我爸爸，因为他早已因倡导女性主义、为女性权利发声而闻名全球，更重要的是，他允许自己的女儿说话。
She always says that she's so lucky that she found my dad because he is, you know, already known globally for his advocacy, feminism, for standing up for women's rights, and and and more importantly, for letting his daughter speak.
我总是告诉人们，我从斯瓦特谷开始的维权故事并没有什么独特之处。
I always tell people that there's nothing unique in my story of activism from Swath Valley.
唯一不同或独特的地方是，我的父亲没有阻止我。
The only thing that's unique or different is that my father did not stop me.
如果更多的男性能勇敢地允许女孩做她们想做的事，或不阻止她们，那么我们就会听到不同的故事。
If more men are brave enough to allow the girls to do what they want or to not stop them, then we will we will hear different stories.
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我们会听到更多女性和女孩获得她们应得的机会。
We will hear more women and girls get the opportunities that they deserve.
我知道他们两位都是非常善良和体贴的父母，但他们不仅以父母的身份思考，我认为他们也在作为巴基斯坦更大社区或亲戚的代表在思考。
I know both of them are very kind and caring parents, but they are not just thinking as parents, but I think they're also thinking as representatives of the bigger community in Pakistan or relatives.
有时我觉得，当他们说话时，有太多声音在同时发声。
And sometimes I feel like there there are just too many voices that are speaking when they are speaking.
这影响了所有事情。
And it it it affects everything.
比如，就连我为上大学打包行李这样的决定，我妈妈都给我打包了所有传统的巴基斯坦服装。
Like, even a decision like what I was packing for college, my mom was packing all the traditional Pakistani clothes for me.
我只想穿牛仔裤和运动衫或毛衣，完全不想显得突兀。
I just wanted to wear jeans and jumpers or sweaters, and I did not want to stand out at all.
所以我记得自己打包了所有这些更普通的大学服装。
So I remember packing all of these, like, more normal college clothes.
我记得在谷歌上搜索赛琳娜·戈麦斯2017年的休闲穿搭，因为我想知道，什么是大家平时穿的酷酷的休闲装扮？
I remember going on Google and looking up Selena Gomez casual 2017 because I I was like, you know, what is what is, like, a cool outfit, a casual outfit that everybody's wearing?
上大学时，你曾穿着牛仔裤去参加赛艇训练。
There's this moment in college when you wore jeans to rowing practice.
是的。
Yes.
有人拍下了你穿着这条牛仔裤的照片。
And a picture was taken of you wearing these jeans.
巴基斯坦媒体因此炸开了锅。
Pakistani media went into an uproar.
你父亲要求你发表一份澄清声明。
Your father wanted you to issue a clarification.
我想说，你描述这件事的方式几乎有点滑稽。
And I'll just say there's something almost comical in the way that you write about that.
他对你说什么了？
What did he say to you?
他希望你怎么说？
What did he want you to say?
你知道吗，我爸妈看到巴基斯坦那边的整个 backlash 时都非常生气。
You know, both both my mom and dad were really upset when they saw the whole backlash in Pakistan.
我记得当时打电话给妈妈和爸爸，特别生气，因为我对他们说，我上大学不是为了朝圣或者参加什么宗教仪式。
I remember, like, on phone with both my mom and my dad and just being so mad at them because I said, like, I am here at college, not for some pilgrimage or some, like, religious ceremony.
这就是我的大学生活，我想和别的学生一样。
This is this is my college life, and I want to be like every other student.
我到底该在澄清声明里写些什么呢？
What am I even going to say in a clarification statement?
比如道歉？
Like, apologies.
我明天就不穿牛仔裤了。
I'm not gonna wear jeans tomorrow.
或者，好吧。
Or, okay.
让我为牛仔裤辩护一下，你知道，有很多穆斯林也穿牛仔裤。
Let me defend jeans and say, you know, there are, like, Muslim people who wear jeans.
穆斯林并没有固定的着装规范，或者说，我觉得这又会引发另一场争论。
There's no fixed dress code for Muslims or, you know, like, it's it's I was like, this is this is gonna be a whole another debate.
女性和女孩难道不能穿她们想穿的衣服吗？
Can women and girls just wear what they want?
最终，我爸爸同意了。
So my dad in the end agreed.
我妈妈仍然和我争辩，但最后她还是勉强接受了。
My mom was still arguing with me, but in the end, she sort of accepted it.
但我告诉他，你知道，你永远无法预料。
But I told him, I said, you know, you just never know.
说实话，我最不担心的就是穿牛仔裤。
Jeans was, like, the last thing that I was worried about.
坦白说，我更担心的是，如果别人看到我和朋友在派对上一起跳舞，会拍下照片。
To be honest, I was more worried about people taking photos if I were seen, like, with my friends at a party where we were maybe, like, dancing together.
我觉得，所有这些事情都可能被断章取义。
I thought, like, all of these things could be taken out of context.
我对此非常敏感。
I was super aware of that.
但当这件事发生在牛仔裤上时，我想：好吧。
But when it happened with genes, I was like, okay.
你知道吗？
You know what?
我要干脆放手去做一切了，因为人们可能会批评任何事情。
I'm just gonna I'm just gonna go for everything now because people could criticize anything.
比如，人们甚至可能批评你的存在。
Like, people could even criticize you for your existence.
你在哪里划线？
Where do you draw the line?
我们休息一下吧，马拉拉。
Let's take a short break, Malala.
如果你刚刚加入，我的嘉宾是马拉拉·尤素福·扎伊。
If you're just joining us, my guest is Malala Yousef Zai.
她是历史上最年轻的诺贝尔和平奖得主，也是倡导全球女童教育的马拉拉基金会的联合创始人。
She's the youngest ever Nobel Peace Prize laureate and cofounder of Malala Fund, which advocates for girls' education worldwide.
她的新回忆录是《寻找我的路》。
Her new memoir is Finding My Way.
短暂休息后，我们将继续我们的对话。
We'll continue our conversation after a short break.
这里是《新鲜空气》。
This is Fresh Air.
今年假日季，在《故事桥》播客中，讲述一个冷战时期的圣诞节回忆。
This holiday season on the StoryCorps podcast, a Christmas memory from the Cold War.
我记得他桌上那部红色电话。
I remember this red phone on his desk.
如果电话响了，就意味着发生了全国性紧急事件。
If it rang, there was a national emergency.
有一次
One time
红色电话响了，他接了起来，传来一个稚嫩的声音，对我们说
the red phone rang, he answered it, and there was a small voice that asked us
给圣诞老人。
to Santa Claus.
在树下舒适地坐下，收听NPR故事档案播客的特别假日特辑。
Cozy up under the tree and listen to a special holiday edition of the StoryCorps podcast from NPR.
本周《特朗普说了算》栏目，推出一项历时五年特别报道。
This week on Trump's terms, a special report five years in the making.
我有一位总统，赦免了所有袭击过我的人。
I've got a president that pardoned all the people that assaulted me.
1月6日，
January 6,
为什么这个故事还没有结束。
why the story isn't over.
我每天都收到死亡威胁。
I get death threats every single day.
我们仍然生活在我的创伤之中。
We're still living in the midst of my trauma.
本周在《特朗普的条件》播客中，收听NPR调查团队关于1月6日的特别报道。
Listen to a special report on January 6 from NPR's investigations team this week on the Trump's terms podcast from NPR.
NPR及以下内容的支持来自莱梅尔森基金会，该基金会致力于通过发明、创新和气候行动改善生活。
Support for NPR and the following message come from the Lemelson Foundation, dedicated to improving lives through invention, innovation, and climate action.
你在这本书中写道，你至今仍经历的唯一恐慌发作是关于阿富汗的。
The only panic attacks you still experience, you wrote in the book, was are about Afghanistan.
这还属实吗？
Is that still true?
是的。
Yes.
我记得我在南非时，曾在纳尔逊·曼德拉讲座上发表演讲，当时我想支持阿富汗女性反对性别隔离的运动。
And I remember when I was in South Africa, I was giving a speech at the Nelson Mandela lecture, and I wanted to support the Afghan women's campaign of gender apartheid.
因此，他们呼吁领导人将该国发生的情况认定为性别隔离，因为这实际上是一种系统性的压迫。
So they're calling leaders to recognize what's happening in the country as a gender apartheid because it is actually systemic oppression.
他们希望将此事视为国际罪行，并让塔利班为此负责。
And they wanted to to, like, be considered as an international crime, and the Taliban should be held accountable for it.
于是我发表了演讲。
So I gave my speech.
我完成了我的采访。
I I did my interviews.
我们与南非的女性活动家和盟友进行了交流，一切都很顺利。
You know, we had conversation with South African female activists and allies, and everything went really well.
但在最后一天晚上，我正在睡觉时，突然惊醒，浑身发抖、冒冷汗。
And then on the last night, like, the middle of my sleep, I just suddenly woke up and I was shaking and sweating.
我经历了一次严重的恐慌发作，心想：天啊，我可能会死。
And I I had, like, this terrible panic attack where I thought, you know, I I I could just I I I could die.
我几乎在尖叫，是的，那场面太可怕了。
I I was sort of screaming and and, yeah, it was it was terrifying.
但这次，我丈夫在我身边，他握着我的手，帮助并支持了我。
It but this time, my husband was with me, and he was holding my hand, and he he helped me and supported me.
所以这只是一个提醒，恐惧依然存在，这种恐惧源于其他阿富汗女性和女孩目前正在经历的一切。
So it was just a reminder that the fear is there, and the fear is is for what other Afghan women and girls are experiencing right now.
这太可怕了。
It is terrifying.
这真的太可怕了。
It is truly terrifying.
然而，与此同时，当你刷手机时，你会强迫自己停下来观看阿富汗女性被殴打和袭击的视频。
And yet at the same time, when you're scrolling on your phone, you make yourself stop to watch the videos of of Afghan women being beaten and assaulted.
因此，在很多方面，你是在选择让自己再次受到创伤。
And so in many ways, you're choosing to retraumatize yourself.
为什么做一个见证者如此重要？
Why is it important to be a witness?
你知道，我亲身经历过那些事情。
You know, I I I have I have lived through those experiences.
我亲眼见过那些场景。
I have seen them.
当我们经历塔利班在巴基斯坦北部斯瓦特谷地家乡的残酷统治时，我们希望世界能看见这一切，因为这是女性正在真实经历的现实。
And when we were going through the Taliban's brutal time in our hometown in Swat Valley in the North Of Pakistan, we wanted the the world to see it because this is a reality that women are actually living.
这些并不是过去发生过、现在已经停止的事情。
These are not things that, you know, sort of have happened in the past, and they have stopped.
不。
No.
这些可怕的事情每天都在发生。
Like, these terrible things are happening each and every day.
只有少数故事能登上社交媒体。
Only a few stories actually make it to social media.
所以当我们看到他人遭受可怕的遭遇时，我认为哪怕只是停下一刻，去看、去见证，让他们知道你看见了，你与他们同在，你感到愤怒。
So when when we see something horrible happening to others, I think even just stopping for a moment and and just seeing it, witnessing it so that they know that, you know, that you saw and you were there with them, and that you feel anger.
你感到沮丧。
You feel the frustration.
所以我认为，即使我们只是分享情感，也是一种团结的讯息。
So I think it's when even when we share emotions, it is a message of solidarity.
但我想让阿富汗女性知道，她们并不孤单。
But, you know, I'm I want Afghan women to know that they are not alone.
我认为她们需要更多的支持，这正是我通过马拉拉基金所支持的工作。
I think they need more support, and that's the work that I I'm supporting through Malala Fund.
我支持着国内和国外的阿富汗活动人士，希望她们的处境能够有所改变。
I'm supporting Afghan activists in the country, outside the country, and I hope that that things change for them.
我想问问你关于美国的事情。
I wanna ask you about The United States.
在观察了我们的政治格局后，你觉得美国女性权利现状最让你惊讶的是什么？
Having observed our political landscape, maybe what has surprised you most about the state of of women's rights here in The United States?
我认为，在世界许多地方，包括美国，女性权利是一个非常脆弱的话题。
I think women's rights are a very fragile conversation in many parts of the world, including The United States.
在这样的时刻，我认为女性、女孩和女性权利倡导者应该花点时间反思一下，我们究竟取得了多少进展。
And in moments like these, I think women and girls and advocates of women's rights should take a moment to reflect on how, you know, how much progress we have actually achieved.
我知道人们经常问，看到这些倒退，我们是否感到震惊？
I know people often ask that, you know, are we are we shocked to see these setbacks?
我说，是的。
And I say, yes.
我对于各地出现的倒退感到震惊。
I am shocked to see the setbacks everywhere.
最重要的是在阿富汗，想想看，女孩的教育被禁止了。
Most importantly, in Afghanistan because, like, imagine girls' education being banned.
这就是阿富汗女孩们必须面对的现实。
Like, that's a reality girls in Afghanistan have to live under.
或者女性被禁止工作。
Or women being banned from work.
这就是女性必须面对的现实。
That's a reality women have to live under.
因此，这也提醒我们，我们为妇女权利所做的倡导比以往任何时候都更加重要，因为这些成就如此脆弱，随时可能被剥夺。
So it's it's also a reminder that the activism that we are doing for women's rights is more important than ever because of how fragile these accomplishments had been, that they are taken away from us the next moment.
因此，我们需要做更多工作来保护妇女权利，并系统性地保障她们的权利。
So we need to do more to protect women's rights and, like, systematically protect them.
因此，阿富汗女性领导的一项运动是将阿富汗发生的情况认定为性别隔离，并将性别隔离纳入《危害人类罪条约》。
So one of the campaigns that Afghan women are leading is to recognize what's happening in Afghanistan as a gender apartheid and to make gender apartheid a part of the Crime Against Humanity Treaty.
我知道这听起来太复杂、术语太多，但这实际上意味着，目前国际法中还没有任何条款能够认定塔利班所实施的系统性压迫达到如此程度。
And I know it sounds like too much, too many jargons, but what this basically means is that, you know, currently, we do not have anything in the international law that can recognize the level of systemic oppression that the Taliban impose.
这种压迫的规模和强度都太大了，以至于他们竟能逍遥法外。
Like, the scale of it is just so big, and so intense that they're, like, getting away with it.
因此，如果这被定为国际罪行，各国就有义务做出反应。
So if it becomes an international crime, then countries are obliged to react.
各国不应与他们正常化关系，这有助于我们建立更好的问责机制。
Countries should not be normalizing relationships with them, and it just helps us have a better accountability system.
挑战在于，我想到了美国在这其中的角色。
The challenge is, you know, I I think about The United States role in this.
我知道特朗普政府削减了国际援助，并恢复了像全球禁令这样的政策。
I know the Trump administration's cuts to international aid and the reinstatement of policies like this expanded global gag rule.
这直接冲击了全球女性获得教育和医疗保健的机会。
It directly impacts women's access to education and health care worldwide.
我想知道，考虑到您的工作，您是否看到美国政策的变化影响了您工作国家的女童和女性？
And I was wondering, given your work, have you seen US policy changes impact girls and women in countries where you work?
是的。
Yes.
因此，马拉拉基金支持的许多活动家也从美国国际开发署获得资助。
So a lot of the activists that Malala Fund supports also receive grants from USAID.
是的，由于资金削减，他们的组织受到了影响，包括阿富汗的一个组织也是如此。
And, yes, because of the cuts, their organizations were affected, including one organization in Afghanistan as well.
对于马拉拉基金这样的组织来说，我们不接受政府拨款。
And it you know, for an organization like Malala Fund, so we don't receive government grants.
但我们知道，这些在国家关键且艰难地区工作的活动家，尤其是那些需要帮助女童接受教育的人，比以往任何时候都更需要我们的支持。
But we knew that these activists who are working in these important tough areas of the countries where girls need help with education, need our support more than ever.
因此，我们正在帮助他们通过其他方式筹款，同时也为他们提供所需的资金。
So we are helping them get, like, fundraising in other ways, and we are also providing them with the funding that they need.
所以，是的，这直接影响到了女童教育的工作。
So, yes, it's it's reaching to the to the work for girls' education.
这确实产生了影响。
It has affected that.
有一位社会学家特蕾西·麦米兰·科托姆说过，自由是一种责任。
There's this thing that this sociologist, Tressie McMillan Cottom says that freedom, she feels, is a responsibility.
她认为，她对他人越有责任感，自己就越自由。
Her belief is that the more responsible she is to others, the freer she is.
我觉得我从你的话中听到了类似的意思。
And I feel like this is what I'm hearing from you in a way.
我想知道，这个观点是否引起你的共鸣？
I was wondering, does that idea resonate with you?
你知道，我并不一定从自由的角度来思考这个问题，但我把它看作是人生的使命。
You know, I don't necessarily think about it in the sense of freedom, but I think about it as a purpose of life.
我只是回想起我无法上学的那段时光。
I I just reflect on the time when I could not be in school.
我当时只有11岁，塔利班禁止女孩接受教育。
I was only 11 years old, and the Taliban had banned girls from learning.
从那时起，我的人生使命就是不让其他女孩再经历这样的事。
It has been my my life's mission since then that no other girl faces that.
我记得在从塔利班子弹的伤势中恢复时，意识到竟然有人会伤害一个孩子。
I remember recovering from the Taliban bullet and processing this moment that somebody could, like, hurt a child.
从那时起，我的人生目标变成了不让任何一个孩子再中弹。
And since then, it has now become my life's goal that no other child takes a bullet.
不让任何一个孩子受到惩罚。
No other child is punishing.
不让任何一个孩子因为敢于上学而遭受惩罚。
No other child is punished for daring to be in school.
当你自己经历过暴力、伤害和创伤后，你就会深刻理解它的可怕，再也无法容忍它发生在任何人身上。
So when you face violence, harm, and trauma yourself, you understand how terrible and horrible it is that you can no longer see it even happening to anybody else.
人们经常问我，我当时是什么感受。
You know, people often ask me, like, how I felt.
我说，是的，那一切都很可怕，但我现在根本无法再看到任何孩子遭受这样的事——无论是阿富汗的女孩被禁止上学，加沙的女孩学校被炸，还是儿童被迫劳动，女孩被迫早婚。
I'm like, you know, yes, you know, it was all horrible, but I just cannot see it happening to to anyone right now, whether it's girls being banned from school in Afghanistan or girls schools being bombed in Gaza or children being forced into labor or girls being married off.
而且，你知道，他们不得不生活在持续的战争和暴力之中。
And and, you know, them they have to, like, live under these constant war wars and violence.
所有这些事情，真的很可怕。
All of these things, like, it's just scary.
但我只希望我们能创造一个没有战争、恐怖和伤害的世界，让孩子们拥有充满欢乐与学习的童年，过上安全的生活。
It's but I I just hope that we can create a world without any war and terror and harm for children where they can have a childhood of joy and learning, and they can have a safe life.
马拉拉·优素福·扎伊，非常感谢你。
Malala Youssef Sai, thank you so much.
哦，非常感谢你。
Oh, thank you so much.
和你聊天真愉快。
Nice talking to you.
马拉拉·优素福·扎伊的新回忆录名为《寻找我的路》。
Malala Youssef Sai's new memoir is called Finding My Way.
我们的采访是在十月录制的。
Our interview was recorded in October.
接下来，我们的特约评论员约翰·鲍尔斯将谈谈他今年非常喜欢但没时间撰稿的几部电影、电视节目和书籍。
Coming up, our critic at large, John Powers, talks about some movies, television shows, and books of the year, which he really liked but didn't have time to review.
但这一年还没结束。
But the year's not over yet.
广告后，他会为我们详细介绍这些内容。
He'll tell us all about them after this break.
这里是《新鲜空气》。
This is Fresh Air.
拉丁音乐从未如此流行，但它一直深受所有拉美裔群体的喜爱。
Latin music has never been bigger, but it's always been big on all Latino.
十五年来，我们始终通过音乐的视角庆祝拉丁身份，跨越国界，传递里莫精神。
Fifteen years in, we continue celebrating Latinidad through a music lens, transcending borders through Rimo.
深入了解来自拉库尔图拉的艺术家们，并将一些新的拉丁音乐推荐加入你的播放列表。
Get to know artists from La Cultura on a deeper level and throw some new Latin music recs into your rotation.
在NPR应用或您常用的播客平台收听《Alt Latino》。
Listen to Alt Latino in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
我们的特约评论员约翰·鲍尔斯花时间阅读、观看和聆听。
Our critic at large, John Powers, spends his time reading, watching, and listening.
每年这个时候，他都会列出一些他喜欢但没来得及评论的作品。
And every year at this time, he offers a list of things he liked that he wished he had gotten a chance to review.
今年的清单从意大利电影片场延伸到美国南部的橄榄球场，再到遥远的星系。
This year's version wanders from Italian movie sets to southern football stadiums to a galaxy far, far away.
作为一名特约评论员最大的福气就是可以成为无所不包的饕餮者。
The great blessing of being a critic at large is that one gets to be an omnivore.
而持久的遗憾则是，一切都太多了。
The abiding curse is that there's too much of everything.
每年十二月，我都会回顾那些没来得及谈论的大量优秀作品。
Every December I look back at scads of good things I didn't manage to talk about.
这份年终清单是我最后一次与你们分享一些最爱作品的机会。
This year end list is my last chance to share a few favorites with you.
首先是保罗·索伦蒂诺的新片《La Grazia》，这位意大利导演曾因《绝美之城》获得奥斯卡奖。
Off is La Grazia, the new movie by Paolo Sorrentino, the Italian director who won an Oscar for the great beauty.
他收敛了标志性的浮夸风格，讲述了一个沉思的故事，为我们充满愤怒的美国政治提供了一处避风港。
Scaling back his trademark flamboyance, he tells a reflective story that offers a refuge from our enraged American politics.
索伦蒂诺以一种静默而激进的方式，描绘了电影中罕见的元素——一位正直的政治家。
In a quietly radical move, Sorrentino portrays something we seldom see in movies, an honorable politician.
在这部电影中，一位受人尊敬的意大利总统在临近退休之际，既要面对个人的悲痛，又要应对深刻的政治道德困境，比如谁该获得赦免。
In this case, a respected Italian president who, as he heads toward retirement, finds himself dealing with personal grief and grappling with profound moral issues, like who deserves a pardon.
《La Grazia》充满令人愉悦的角色：一位睿智的非洲教皇、一位泼辣的女性艺术评论家、一个毫不悔改的杀人犯，而这一切都围绕着托尼·塞维洛令人惊叹的表演展开。这位演员才华横溢、多才多艺，即便他出演一则抗酸药广告，我也会迫不及待地去看。
Alive with enjoyable characters, a wise African pope, a sassy woman art critic, an unrepentant murderers, La Grazia revolves around a majestic performance by Tony Servillo, an actor so thrillingly versatile that if he starred in an antacid commercial, I'd rush to see it.
对抗暴政是今年我所看过的最佳剧集《安多尔》的主题。
The battle against tyranny is the theme of Andor, the best television series I saw this year.
我从来不是星战迷，当成年男子自豪地向我展示他们的丘巴卡和达斯·维达手办时，我总是嗤之以鼻。
I've never been much of a Star Wars guy, and I scoff when grown men proudly show me their action figures of Chewbacca and Darth Vader.
然而，托尼·吉罗伊执导的《侠盗一号》前传第二季政治内涵如此深邃，让其他所有星战作品都显得天真幼稚。
Yet the second season of Tony Gilroy's prequel to the movie Rogue One is so politically sophisticated that it makes the rest of Star Wars feel naive.
从迭戈·卢纳饰演的 reluctant 英雄卡西安，到斯特兰·斯卡斯加德饰演的冷酷叛军策划者，再到费·马西饰演的悲痛叛军劫掠者，这部剧集真实呈现了反抗一个无所不用其极、甚至能实施种族灭绝的帝国所需的勇气与沉重代价。
From Diego Luna's reluctant hero Cassian to the ruthless rebel mastermind played by Stellan Skarsgard to Faye Marcy's heartbroken rebel raider, the show captures both the courage and painful cost of rising against an empire capable of anything, even genocide.
在这里，一名年轻的叛军担心即将到来的行动，卡西安为她打气。
Here, a young rebel worries about an upcoming action, and Cassian gives her a pep talk.
如果我今晚死了，这一切值得吗？
If I die tonight, was it worth it?
你以前做过这事。
You've done this before.
你一定想过这个问题。
You must have thought about it.
这使一切变得值得。
This makes it worth it.
就是现在，这一刻。
This, right now.
和你在一起，在你踏入圈中的这一刻。
Being with you, being here at the moment you step into the circle.
看着我。
Look at me.
你早就做出了这个决定。
You made this decision long ago.
帝国不可能赢。
The empire cannot win.
除非你尽己所能阻止他们，否则你永远不会感到安心。
You'll never feel right unless you're doing what you can to stop them.
你正在回归真实的自己。
You're coming home to yourself.
在埃利·克兰纳充满活力的悬疑小说《密西西比蓝42》中，赌注没那么宏大，却更加幽默，这本书正是为我这样热切期待即将到来的大学橄榄球季后赛的人量身打造的搞笑之作。
The stakes are less galactic and far funnier in Eli Craner's rollicking mystery novel Mississippi Blue 42, the perfect whoopee cushion for those like me who are psyched for the upcoming college football playoffs.
故事设定在虚构的密西西比橄榄球名校，讲述了一名新入职的联邦调查局特工、同时也是教练女儿的雷·约翰逊，调查橄榄球项目中的腐败行为。
Set at a fictional pigskin mad Mississippi University, it follows Ray Johnson, a newbie FBI agent and coach's daughter who's investigating corruption in the football program.
这位坚强的女性很快发现自己深陷性交易、腐败政治、种族剥削、利己主义的宗教狂热，以及当然，无止境的贪婪之中。
This tough cookie soon finds herself swimming in a swamp of sexual favors, crooked politics, racial exploitation, self serving religiosity, and, of course, runaway greed.
克兰纳本人曾是大学四分卫，但他并非狂热信徒。
Kraner was himself a college quarterback, but he's no true believer.
在他对足球工业体系的欢快讽刺中，他继承的不是波普·沃纳的传统，而是卡尔·哈森的风格。
In his gleeful skewering of the football industrial complex, he's in the tradition not of Pop Warner, but Carl Hiasson.
你还会在令人愉快的意大利电视剧《伊玛·塔塔拉尼》中遇到另一位平凡的女主人公，她是一名副检察官。
You get another dowdy heroine in the enjoyable Italian TV series, Ima Tatarani, deputy prosecutor.
这是我目前在MHZ平台上众多优秀国际剧集中的首选，MHZ是我认为值回票价的少数流媒体平台之一。
My current top choice from the smorgasbord of great international programs on MHZ, one of the rare streamers I think worth the money.
该剧现已播出第四季，由幽默夸张的凡妮莎·斯凯莱拉饰演艾玛，一位正直的调查员，她有着爆炸式的橙色头发、瞪大的眼睛和扭曲的嘴角，能在别人只看到死亡的地方看到谋杀。
Now in season four, the show stars an amusingly overwrought Vanessa Scalera as Emma, a righteous investigator with exploding orange hair, popping eyes, and a wryly twisted mouth who sees murder where other people see only deaths.
自然，她不会罢休，直到破解所有案件。
Naturally she won't let up until she solves them.
故事背景设在风景如画的马泰拉市，充满意大利房地产的阴谋、黑手党影响和关于食物的争执，该剧的核心在于伊玛与她善良而疲惫的丈夫皮耶特罗之间深厚的感情，以及她对英俊年轻门徒卡莱·吉乌里的纯洁仰慕。
Based in the picturesque city of Matera and steeped in Italiana real estate shenanigans, mafia influence, arguments about food, The show's heart lies in Ima's loving relationship with her kind beleaguered husband Pietro and in her chaste yearning for Calle Giuri, the handsome young protege who worships her.
我们继续留在意大利，品味英国作家奥利维亚·朗的新作《银书》，这部引人入胜的小说。
We linger in Italy for The Silver Book, the seductive new novel by English writer Olivia Lang.
这本书的开篇颇具帕特里夏·海史密斯的风格。
The book starts off in Patricia Highsmith territory.
一名年轻同性恋男子因神秘原因逃离了1974年的伦敦。
A young gay man flees 1974 London for mysterious reasons.
他最终来到威尼斯，成为丹尼洛·多纳蒂的情人；后者是一位真实存在的服装与道具设计师，带他参与了费德里科·费里尼实际拍摄的电影制作，我们看到费里尼对唐纳德·萨瑟兰表现得异常残忍，而皮埃尔·保罗·帕索里尼则是一位文化引爆点与性叛逆者。
He winds up in Venice where he becomes the lover of Danilo Donati, a real life costume and production designer who gets him involved in the making of actual movies by Federico Fellini, who we see being shockingly cruel to Donald Sutherland, and Pierre Paolo Pasolini, a cultural lightning rod and sexual renegade.
《银书》既是一部爱情故事，也是一幅对艺术创作过程的深刻肖像，同时展现了罗马著名的奇尼切塔影城，并以间接方式捕捉了意大利历史上被称为‘铅年’的政治暴力时代。
The Silver Book is at once a love story, an insightful portrait of the artistic process, a look into Rome's famous cinecitta studios, and an oblique snapshot of the politically violent era in Italy known as the years of lead.
晶莹剔透且风格鲜明，却笼罩在威胁的阴影之下，它捕捉到了一个电影制作近乎成为一种宗教的逝去时代。
Crystal and in style, yet shadowed by menace, it captures a bygone era when making movies became a kind of religion.
对电影导演马丁·斯科塞斯而言，电影 literally 就是如此——他于1973年拍摄了第一部杰作《穷街陋巷》，至今仍在拍片。
Cinema was literally that for film director Martin Scorzese who made his first great movie Mean Streets in 1973 and is still making them today.
在她引人入胜的Apple TV纪录片系列《斯科塞斯先生》中，丽贝卡·米勒追踪了他波澜壮阔的职业生涯，记录了这位来自纽约小意大利的瘦小哮喘儿童，如何从渴望成为神父，最终通过拍摄《出租车司机》和《愤怒的公牛》等影片找到救赎。
In her enthralling Apple TV documentary series Mister Scorzese Rebecca Miller charts his epic career tracking how this tiny asthmatic child from New York's little Italy went from hoping to become a priest to finding his salvation making movies like taxi driver and raging bull.
他才华横溢，却被黑暗的能量驱使，可卡因几乎夺去他的生命，如今斯科塞斯已成为美国电影的教皇。
Brilliant but driven by dark energies, cocaine nearly killed him, Scorcese has become the Pope of American movies.
好莱坞总是向他俯首称臣，却忽视了他对电影的正义理念。
Hollywood always genuflex before him while ignoring his righteous ideas about cinema.
当然，我们现在离《出租车司机》上映时人们排队观影的日子已经非常遥远了。
Certainly, we're a long, long way from the days when Taxi Driver had people lining up to see it.
今年最大的银幕热点是《K-pop恶魔猎手》，这部Netflix轻松的动画音乐剧讲述了一支爱吃拉面的腰带乐队与恶魔战斗的故事。
This year's biggest screen sensation has been k pop demon hunters, Netflix's breezy animated musical about a ramen eating girdle band that well battles demons.
我不能假装这是高雅艺术，它让《吸血鬼猎人巴菲》看起来都像《安娜·卡列尼娜》了，但它确实是一部真正优秀的家庭电影，风格轻盈，像《女巫前传》的轻松版。
Now I can't pretend that this is high art it makes Buffy look like Anna Karenina but it's a genuinely good family movie that plays like a lighter on its feet version of Wicked.
事实上，我敢打赌，今年没有哪部电影比它带来更多欢乐。
Indeed, I'd wager that no movie this year sparked more joy.
就连我这样铁石心肠的影评人也被它朗朗上口的音乐片段征服了，正因如此，在一个诞生了无数‘恶魔’的2025年，我想用这部电影的主题曲《Golden》迎接新年——这首注定冲击奥斯卡的歌曲充满希望与力量，让观众在影院里兴奋地跟着合唱。
It even won over to hardened critic like me with its catchy musical numbers, which is why in a 2025 that spawned so many demons, I'd like to ring in the new year with the movie's anthem, Golden, an Oscars bound song full of hope and empowerment that had audiences giddily singing along in movie theaters.
约翰·鲍尔斯是《新鲜空气》的特约评论员。
John Powers is Fresh Air's critic at large.
明天的节目，我们将继续回顾2025年最喜爱的访谈之一，嘉宾是演员理查德·金德。
On tomorrow's show, we'll continue our retrospective of favorite interviews of 2025 with actor Richard Kind.
在四十年的职业生涯中，你一定在无数电视剧和电影中见过他，比如《楼中谋杀案》《抑制热情》《旋转城市》《疯狂爱恋》《严肃的男人》和《头脑特工队》，这只是其中几部。
You've seen him on countless TV shows and films in his forty year career, only Murders in the Building, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Spin City, Mad About You, A Serious Man, and Inside Out, just to name a few.
希望您能加入我们。
I hope you can join us.
《Fresh Air》的执行制片人是丹尼·米勒。
Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller.
我们的技术总监兼工程师是奥德丽·本特汉。
Our Technical Director and Engineer is Audrey Bentham.
我们的制作总监是萨姆·布里格。
Our Managing Producer is Sam Brigger.
我们的访谈和评论由菲莉丝·迈尔斯、安·玛丽·巴尔多纳多、海蒂·萨曼、劳伦·克林泽尔、特蕾莎·马登、莫妮克·纳扎雷特、安娜·鲍曼、西娅·查隆纳、苏珊·亚昆迪和尼科·冈萨雷斯·惠斯勒制作和编辑。
Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Heidi Saman, Lauren Krinzel, Theresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Anna Baumann, Thea Challoner, Susan Yakundi, and Nico Gonzalez Whistler.
我们的数字媒体制作人是莫莉·C。
Our digital media producer is Molly C.
V。
V.
Nesper。
Nesper.
罗伯塔·肖洛克负责执导该节目。
Roberta Shorrock directs the show.
我是塔尼娅·莫斯利，和特里·格罗斯一起。
With Terry Gross, I'm Tanya Moseley.
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