纯素食主义 | 第78集

大家好，欢迎回到《随流成长》，感谢收听，周一快乐，希望你们周末过得愉快。今天的节目，我想稍微聊聊素食主义，这是我过去在社交媒体上经常分享的话题，但后来我似乎不知不觉中减少了这方面的内容。稍后我会详细谈谈，主要是关于我与素食主义的关系，我现在是否还坚持素食，以及最近的一些思考，因为已经很久没聊这个话题了。还有一些生活近况更新，我刚结束了本学期第五周的学习。

Hello everybody, welcome back to Growing With The Flow, thank you for tuning in, and happy Monday, I hope you had a nice weekend. Today's episode, I want to talk a little about veganism, which is something I used to share a lot more of on social media in general, and I actually like kind of like subconsciously I guess have made that change. And I guess I'll talk about that in a little bit, but yeah, just my relationship with it, am I still vegan, and yeah, just some thoughts I have had recently because it's been a long time. Some just general life updates. I have just finished week five of my term.

下周就是阅读周了，这简直难以置信。今年的学术学期过得飞快，但日历年份却感觉拖沓。天啊，时间怎么过得这么慢？但我已经完成了这学期的五周课程，真是不可思议。

So next week is reading week, which is insane. This year is going so quickly, like the academic term. The actual year, the calendar year is dragging. Like, oh my god, is it going slowly? But I can't believe I've already done five weeks of this term.

去年，当我从九月到十二月完成这个硕士课程的第一学期时，真的感觉像是跑了十场马拉松才熬到阅读周。而今年我却觉得无所谓，时间就这么过去了。实际上这次比五周更长，因为之前还有一周的零周考试。我之前也在为考试复习，所以感觉有点疯狂，这意味着我的教学任务已经完成了四分之三。

Last year, when I had the first term of this masters from September to December, genuinely, felt like I had run 10 marathons by the time I got reading week and this year I'm just like, whatever. Like, it's kinda just gone by and it's actually longer than five weeks this time because the first, there was a week zero with exams. So it's kind of been longer and I was also studying before that for exam. So I don't know. It's kind of crazy and that means that three quarters of my teaching is done.

阅读周之后我还有五周课程，然后是考试，夏天还要写论文。但那五周之后，我就不再有课了，这感觉很奇怪。就像那种一开始你觉得时间过得好慢，到最后却感叹时间飞逝的事情。

I have five more weeks after reading week and then exams and then a dissertation to write in the summer. But after those five weeks, I won't be having classes or anything, which is so weird. And it's kind of it's one of those things where at the start you're like, my god, this is going so slowly. And then at the end you're like, oh, wow. That went so quick.

但这样说对过去的自己有点不公平，明明当时那么艰难，现在却说‘嗖的一下就过去了’。但我确实觉得时间过得又快又奇怪。这周我看了《一天》，请告诉我你们的想法。

But it's like it's a bit of a disjustice to your like or an injustice to your previous self to be like, oh my god. It just flew by when it was so difficult. But I feel like it's just going quickly and weirdly. I watched one day this week. Please let me know your thoughts.

我对此非常感兴趣。我会尽量避免剧透，但如果你还没看过，这部剧现在似乎无处不在。这是根据《一天》这本书改编的新剧，基本情节是两个人在毕业派对后相遇，那时他们22岁。每一集都是同一天，但是一年后的同一天，比如7月19日。

I'm so interested. So I'll try not to do any spoilers, but if you haven't seen it, I feel like it's kind of everywhere, but new series out based on the book One Day. And basically the idea is these two people meet at like, the after party of graduation. So at the end of their degree when they're 22, and then you see each episode is, like, that same date, but a year on. So like July, I think it's July 19.

第一年可能是1988或1989年？我不太确定。然后每年推进一次，直到2002或2004年。这是根据一本书改编的，之前也有一部电影，大概是安妮·海瑟薇主演的，我上大学时看过。

And you see it in I think the first year is nineteen eighty eighty nine maybe? I'm not sure. And then you go like once a year up to like 02/2004. And it's based on a book. There was also a film made, like, kind of ages ago, think, with Anne Hathaway in it, which I watched when I was in uni.

而且，呃，伙计们，它真的会击中你。就像，这太疯狂了，我不知道该怎么形容。我觉得剧情相当，嗯，疯狂。是的，我大学时看过这部电影。其中一个很酷的点是他们就读的大学是爱丁堡大学。

And, ugh, guys, it's kinda like it really does hit you. Like, it's a crazy I don't know. I think the storyline is pretty, like, crazy. And, yeah, I watched the film when I was in uni. One of the cool things about it is that the uni they went to is Edinburgh.

所以第一集以及其中的一些片段是在爱丁堡拍摄的，你能看到包括电影里也出现的场景，比如亚瑟王宝座、峭壁，剧中经常出现的古老学院，还有街道、他们闲逛的地方以及公寓之类的。这真的很酷，因为那正是我上大学的地方。非常令人怀念，看到电视上不常出现的地方出现在电影或剧集中感觉特别棒。后来他们搬到了伦敦，所以也有一些伦敦的内容。但我觉得关于伦敦的电影和剧集已经很多了，而且伦敦太大，反而不那么特别，因为你未必能认出那些地方。而在爱丁堡，你立刻就能认出一切，因为那是个小城市。

So the first episode and, like, a few bits and pieces within that are set in Edinburgh, and you get to see including in the film, which is also really cool, like, Arthur's Seat and, like, the crags, old colleges in the series a lot and just like the streets and like they're walking around and like their flats and stuff. And it's so cool because that's like where I went to uni. It really is like very reminiscent and just very like cool to see somewhere that isn't on TV a lot to be on, like, a movie or a show. Then they do move to London, so there's some London content. But I felt there's a lot of London films and shows, and London's so big as well that it's not as, like, special because you don't necessarily recognize the places whereas in Edinburgh, it's like you instantly recognize everything because it's such a small city.

不过，我真的很喜欢。我要说的是，这是我的批评。因为我已经看过电影，所以我知道会发生什么。我没读过原著，但我大致知道剧情。

But yeah, I really enjoyed it. I will say here's my like critique of it. So I had already watched the film. So, like, granted I knew what was gonna happen. I've not read the book, but, yeah, I already knew the storyline roughly or not roughly.

我知道原著是如何被改编成电影的。我认为电影中非常清楚明了地展现了他们为什么每年都见面，为什么保持友谊，他们的关系、化学反应、紧张感以及那种‘他们会不会在一起’的复杂关系。电影表现得很好，即使他们大吵或事情不顺，他们还是会回到彼此身边，这很有说服力。而在剧集中，前六集（也就是六年）里，我并没有真正理解这一点。我没看到太多让我觉得他们应该在一起的互动。

I knew how the book could been interpreted into the film. And even I just think my one comparison would be that in the film, it's very clear and obvious why they keep hanging out every year and why they keep staying friends and, like, their relationship and, like, the chemistry between them and, like, the, like, tension and ongoing, like, will they, won't they, like, we're just friends, like, you know, the whole quite complicated relationship they have, I do think was portrayed really well in the film and it made loads of sense that they would keep coming back to each other even when they had massive arguments or like things didn't go right. It made sense that they would come back to each other. Whereas in the show, I feel like for the first six six or so episodes, which is, like, six years, obviously, I wasn't really understanding that. Like, I didn't see much, like, between them that made me think.

在我看来，他们吵架后，我不太明白为什么又会和好。从他们的关系表现来看，似乎不值得像电影里那样投入。虽然剧情设定是他们多年来一直是朋友，显然这对他们很重要，但我在看剧时没有感受到这一点。我觉得这部剧值得一看，但可能不完全符合我的期望。

Like, I kind of saw it as, like, they'd have an argument, and then I didn't really understand why they would come back together just from the way that the relationship looks. Like, it didn't look like it was worth as much as it as it is, in terms of, like, the way it's portrayed in the film and also just obviously, the storyline is that they keep staying friends for all these years. So, obviously, it does mean a lot to them, and I didn't really get that from, like, watching it. I don't know. I would say it was only like I'd say it was worth watching but maybe not entirely what I would have desired.

另外，选角真的很棒。女主角是南亚裔，这太酷了。我也很喜欢她在《疼痛难免》中的表演。爱丁堡这座城市和大学非常白人化，作为一个非白人的学生，看到这样的代表真的很棒。我和我的朋友Shreya（她也是印度人）一起去过印度，我们聊过看到这种独特群体的代表有多酷。

Also really, really cool. The girl that they've, cast to be the, like, lead girl is South Asian, which is really cool. I also enjoyed watching her act in This Is Gonna Hurt, and I really love her. And it's just also very cool because Edinburgh as a city and uni is, like, very white. And as somebody who went there who isn't white and has friends like, my friend Shreya, who I went to India with is also Indian.

所以我觉得，看到这样的代表真的很棒。显然，这是基于电影改编的——哦，抱歉。

So I think, like, we were talking about just how cool it is to, like, see, like, some representation of, like, quite a, you know, unique group. And, like, that aspect of it is really, really yeah. It's really nice. Obviously, it's based on a film or no. Sorry.

这是基于一本书改编的，书中这部分并不属于主线情节，所以剧中也没有过多涉及。我记得她在一次演讲中稍微提了一下，说自己不是典型的爱丁堡学生，但这确实不是故事的重点，这很合理，毕竟原著就是如此。不过我觉得这个设定很酷也很有意思。而且饰演蒂莉的那个女孩我也很喜欢，她演得很棒。

It's based on a book where that isn't part of the storyline, so it's not really addressed. Like, I think she makes one little nod to it in a speech about, not being, like, the typical Edinburgh student, but it's not really part of the storyline, which is completely fair because, obviously, it's based off of the book and it doesn't need to be part of the storyline. But, yeah, I thought that was cool and very interesting. And, yeah, I really like the girl that plays Tilly as well. I thought that was, I really like her.

是的。如果你还没看过的话我推荐你看看。不过我得提前说，这部剧有点致郁。里面有些传达的信息相当尖锐。我在大学时看的时候完全没想到剧情会这样发展。

Yeah. I'd recommend watching it if you've not already. It is a little bit depressing is all I'll say. It has like some messaging, I'd say, which is quite harsh. When I watched it in uni, I like had no idea what was gonna happen.

看完后我们都惊呆了，天啊，这简直是我看过最压抑的作品。太可怕了，但同时又很棒。我和一起看的朋友们现在还会开玩笑，每当有人问'我们该看什么'的时候——

And when we finished it, we were just like, oh my god, that was the most depressing thing I've ever seen. Like, that was horrific. But also great. I don't know. We like me and my friends that watched it together, we always joke like, if it's ever like, oh, what should we watch?

就会有人提议看这个，然后大家都会笑，因为没人想再看第二遍。确实有点沉重，但真的很精彩。大学时看的感觉和现在完全不同——当然这不公平比较，那时看的是电影版，现在是剧集版。但这次看到他们三十出头时关于成长的刻画，

And it's like, one day and everyone laughs because it's like, will never I like I do not wanna watch it again. It was a bit like it's a bit much, but it is really cool. I think when I watched it in uni, I was it I don't know. Obviously, it's not a fair comparison because I was in uni then and, like, it was a film whereas now I'm comparing it to the series. But this time around, the aspect of, like, growing up and being, like, at the end there, like, 32, 33, I think.

还有他们毕业十年后事业不顺、感觉职业发展停滞的那些部分，这次给我的冲击完全不同。21岁时看的时候，我根本没太注意这些。可能电影没像剧集那样突出这点，但更多是因为我现在的年龄和人生阶段不同了。

And, like, the aspect of them, like, getting their careers together and, you know, it's like they're ten years out of uni and they haven't got, like, the job that they want or they feel like their career is going nowhere and stuff. That hit me way different this time. Whereas when I watched it when I was like 21, I was I don't know. It just felt I didn't really pick up on that as much. Guess maybe it wasn't highlighted in the same way as it was in the series, but I think it probably has more to do with, like, my age and, like, my position in life.

这次观看真正触动我的就是这些。而第一次看时，我更关注'及时行乐'这类主题。嗯，随便聊聊感想。其他没什么特别的，我前段时间生病了，上周末还出了趟门。

That's what really, like, hit me more watching it this time around. Whereas the first time around, I feel like I took more from the messaging of, like, seize the day kind of thing. So yeah, just some just some thoughts. Other than that, I have not been up too much. I was sick and I went away last weekend.

所以很抱歉那段时间没更新节目。另外我还买了些新装饰画挂房间，特别开心找到一张我奶奶的老照片，几年前在她家发现的。

So I'm sorry. That's why there were no episodes then. And yeah, other than that, I'm not done much. I got some new prints for my room. Very excitingly, I have this picture of my bar, my dad's mom, and I found it at her house a couple years ago, think.

这简直是张惊艳至极的照片。她站在印度某处——我得具体问问是哪里——背景是山间的水域，穿着套绝美的服装。没错，这就是最酷的照片，而且画质相当高清。

And it's literally the most stunning picture. She's standing in somewhere in India. I need to ask specifically where it is. In front of, like, water in a mountain, and she's wearing, like, this amazing outfit. And, yeah, it's just like the coolest picture and it was quite high quality.

我让表妹扫描后发给我，所以打印出来尺寸很大，效果非常棒。另外我还给墙面添了幅新装饰画。这周打算拍个vlog，希望周日能发布。如果想看房间改造，视频里会有更新。

I got my cousin to scan it in and send it to me. So I got that printed quite big and that looks really nice. And then I also got a new print for my wall. I think I'm gonna film a vlog this week and hopefully post that on Sunday. So if you wanna see, I'll do some room updates in that.

总之买了这幅新画。原先床头挂的两幅画，从搬进来就想换掉。说真的，我泡在装饰画网站上好几个月了，搬家前就在盘算要给新房间配新画，当时特别兴奋。

But, yeah, got this new print. I used to have two prints above my bed, which I had been wanting to change ever since I moved in. And I genuinely have been on, like, the print websites for months. Like, since even before I moved, was like, I wanna get new prints for my new room. Like, I was really excited.

但始终找不到合心意的。最后只好挂上以前的旧画——这些我依然很喜欢，会保留下来以后用。不过房间真的很小，任何墙面装饰或大件物品都会让空间显得更拥挤。

I just couldn't find anything that I liked. And, yeah. So I just put up some ones that I had before, which I do still really like and I'm keeping because I'll definitely want them at another point. But it's quite a small room, well, it's a tiny room, really. So having anything on the walls or, like, hung up or, like, even just, like, piles of stuff that is quite big or, like, loud takes a room like, kinda takes over the room quite a lot.

所以虽然不想继续用那些画，可又找不到更好的替代品。选画是个重大决定，毕竟装饰画价格不菲，尤其这种50x70的大尺寸，更不想将就。

So so, yeah, I didn't really want those prints to stay up, but I just couldn't find anything better. And it feels like a big decision. You know? Prints are quite nice and, like, expensive sometimes, so I didn't wanna, like, settle, especially because these prints are, like, 50 by 70, so they're really big. So it's quite expensive.

最终在Desenio上找到了。之前和他们合作过——其实做YouTube前就买过他家产品。这次是自己掏钱买的，不过确实很爱他们的画作，品质上乘。

But I found one finally on Desenio. I've worked with them in the past. I when I was like, before I even started YouTube, I bought stuff from them, and then I've worked with them, in the past. I bought this one myself, but, I have worked with them at points, and I love their prints. They're so nice.

新买的这幅是蓝色背景配粉色调月亮与飞鸟，意境非常宁静。现在房间感觉更温馨舒适了。朋友还告诉我Desenio新出了AI功能，简直不可思议。

So I've got this one. It's like a blue background and then a sort of pinky moon and some birds, and it's very peaceful. And I think it's, like, perfect. The room feels a bit more, like, calm and nice now. And I also saw my friend was telling me how Desenio now have this AI thing, which is absolutely crazy.

AI简直太神奇了，比如你可以在Desenio网站上输入‘伦敦雨景’或‘黄底火烈鸟’之类的关键词。虽然听起来像广告，但真不是——这幅画是我自己买的。他们提供的功能让我觉得特别有趣：你可以选择水彩、抽象或照片风格，AI就会为你生成一幅装饰画。

Like, AI is just wild, where you can go on and you can put in, like, on the Desenio website. This also, maybe this sounds sponsored is is obviously not. Like, I bought this print myself and, like, I genuinely thought this was so interesting that they have this. And you can type in, like, London in the rain or, like, flamingos on a yellow background. Then you can pick different styles like watercolor or, like, abstract or, like, photo style, and then they'll, like, generate a print for you.

你还能把它印出来装饰公寓。这种操作对我来说太疯狂了！我觉得这个创意很棒，因为有时候真的找不到心仪的图案。或者看到昂贵的设计时，可以用它做个平价替代版。当然这只是我的想法啦。

And you can, like, get that printed for your flat. Like, that's crazy to me that you can do that. I thought that was such an interesting idea because sometimes you genuinely can't find what you're looking for. Or if you've seen something really expensive that you kinda want a, like, cheaper version of, you could also use it for that. I don't know.

不过细想有点伤感，毕竟原本这些画作都是艺术家创作的。AI在某种程度上形成了替代——当然不能完全等同——但预算有限的人可能会选择AI作品而非艺术家真迹。觉得这个话题挺值得探讨的，如果你们感兴趣的话。

It's interesting. It's kind of, like, sad in a way because, obviously, like, it's artists who make these prints and, like, do the designs and stuff. And with this, it's kind of, like, replacing in a sense. Not that it's any like, not that it's a substitute at all, but, like, if you've only got, like, x amount to spend, maybe you would pick this over, like, buying, like, artist's work. So I thought that was, like, really interesting and something to look at maybe if you guys are interested.

好了，开场白有点啰嗦，现在进入正题：素食主义。真是段奇妙的旅程——我现在依然坚持纯素饮食。

Okay. That was a bit of a rambly beginning, so we're gonna get into it. Veganism. What a journey. So I am still vegan.

从2015年至今将近九年（目前大概八年半），这个时长经常让人惊呼‘天啊’。当别人问起时，他们总会说‘哇这可真不短’。当然我不是最早的素食者，但现实中很少遇到比我坚持更久的人。

I have been vegan since 2015. So coming up to, like, nine years, I think, maybe, like, eight and a half years at the moment, which is actually a really long time. And whenever people say that, they're like, my god. Or like when they ask and I say, people are like, wow, that's quite a while. I rarely, like, obviously, I'm not saying I'm the first person to ever be vegan at all, but I don't meet that many people who are vegan who have done it for longer than that.

我的意思是，在现今的长期素食者里，我可能属于前50%的那批。这其实挺奇怪的，因为我几乎不会刻意去想这件事——它已经完全成为我的生活习惯。这八年来从未破戒，虽然肯定有过无意中误食的情况，但从未主动选择非素食。

Like, obviously, there are a lot of people. I'm not saying I know this is coming out wrong, but what I mean is, like, I'd say I'm in, like, maybe the first 50% of of people who have still vegan now in terms of, like, how long they've been vegan. And, yeah, it's such a weird thing because I don't actually really think about it ever. It's just a habit and, like, a lifestyle that I have 100%, like I've never broken it that whole time. I am sure that there have been mistakes that I don't know about, but like, I haven't knowingly chosen to eat like non vegan things.

特别是在旅行时，很难弄清所有食物的成分。我百分百确定自己误食过非素食，但都不是严重情况。既没有肠胃不适，也没有其他反应——要是真吃了大量非素食，身体肯定会有感觉的。

And yeah. Especially when I was traveling and, like, you don't really know exactly what's in stuff and, like, it's hard to ask. I'm sure, like, 100% that I have eaten stuff that isn't vegan, but not anything big. Like, I've I've never had any, like, upset tummy or anything or just I don't know. I I feel like if I had, a whole big thing of something, I would my body would know.

也许不是。但大多数情况下，我认为如果我犯了什么错误，那也只是些痕迹或零星的小事，而不是像喝下一整杯牛奶那样（虽然牛奶不是用来吃的）。总之，我最初成为素食者是在15岁，那真的很年轻。现在回想起来，确实如此。

Maybe not. But, for the most part, I think if I have made any mistakes, it will be, just traces or, little splashes of stuff rather than like, you know, eating a full like cup of milk or something. Not that you eat milk, but anyway. So yeah, originally when I went vegan, it was I was 15, which is really young. And I do kind of think back and I'm like, yeah.

你的初衷是好的吗？我从小就被培养成素食者，对此我非常感激。这是我童年、生活以及选择中很美好的一部分。这从来不是被迫的——当然，在婴儿和幼儿时期，任何饮食都是由他人决定的。

Were your intentions in the right place? So I was raised vegetarian, which I'm so grateful for. I love that part of, like, my childhood and, like, my life and my choices and stuff. It was never, like, forced. Obviously, it's, like, when you're, like, a baby and, like, a toddler and stuff.

无论是被迫吃肉还是吃素，在那个阶段都不是你自己的选择。但当我们能够表达自己时，情况就不同了。比如我哥哥很早就放弃了素食，我妈妈每周会为他准备几顿肉食，所以完全没有压力，你完全可以自由选择。

Any diet you have is forced upon you because you can't, like, make autonomous decisions. So whether you're forced to eat meat or forced to be vegetarian or whatever, like, it's not your choice. But as soon as we were able to, like, articulate ourselves and, like, speak about it, we were a lot like, my brother gave up very young, like, I think. And my mom always made him meet for, like, a few meals a week and stuff. So there was definitely, like, no pressure and, like, you didn't have to do it at all.

但我从未质疑过素食，也从未想吃肉——主要是为了动物，这是我坚持素食的原因。而我转向纯素食，说实话最初是为了更健康，这其实有点可笑，因为我当时并不算不健康。那时我对食物的态度极差，还有身体形象问题，十四五岁的年纪确实不好过。

But I had always, I never really questioned it, I never wanted to eat meat. Mainly for the animals, that was why I stayed vegetarian. And the reason I went vegan, I would say actually was mainly to be healthier, which is kind of silly because I wasn't unhealthy. And at the time when I did all this, I had the worst relationship with food, like, that I've ever had, and just like other body issues, you know. I was like 14, 15, it's not good times.

当时纯素食产品很少，比如很难买到纯素巧克力、薯片（不是薯片）、饼干或蛋糕。虽然大超市有些选择，但小商店几乎没有，而且价格更贵，质量也参差不齐，多是超市自有品牌。所以那时选择纯素食意味着要大幅减少这类食品摄入——当然这取决于居住地，我相信现在世界上很多地方仍是如此。

And I think I because at the time there wasn't really much vegan stuff, like it was quite difficult to, for example, buy vegan chocolate, vegan crisps, not vegan crisps, but like vegan biscuits, vegan cake, like that was difficult to come by. And while there were a few options in like big supermarkets, there weren't in like smaller ones and it was often a lot more expensive and a lot of the options weren't very good. Like it was normally like Sainsbury's own brand stuff and it wasn't, that great. So naturally, if you were vegan around that time obviously, it's very different, like, depending where you live, but where and I'm sure that's still true in, many places in the world. But, like, where I live around that time if you went vegan you were necessarily going to be eating a lot less of those foods.

我当时想变得更健康，坦白说那时我的饮食习惯很糟（具体就不展开了）。我以为通过多吃果蔬、减少所谓

And yeah, I think I just wanted to be healthier and to be honest I think I was in like a bad habit with food to like just in general I'm not going to get into it because it's not what this episode is about but and I kind of thought if I focus more on eating healthily and like eating like a good range of like fruit and veg and like not quote less healthy foods as often, that I would be less restrictive in general and just eat a better and like in terms of quantity. So that was kind of one of my motivations And, yeah, it's changed so much over the over the years because there was also a big phase of, like, veganism and, like, environmental issues. Obviously, there are, like, a lot of stats about, like, being vegetarian and being vegan and your, like, carbon footprint and emissions and stuff. Obviously, that's not always the case. Like, eating avocados every day that are flown from, like, South America or whatever is obviously not got a low carbon footprint.

但总体而言，不吃肉确实能在某种程度上降低碳足迹，尤其是选择当季果蔬。现在我的主要动机已经不同：在修复与食物的关系过程中，虽然仍有起伏，但我现在会吃更多所谓的

But, generally, not eating meat lowers it in some way, and especially, like, if you eat, like, more seasonal fruits and veg and stuff. So yeah. And then now I would say the main reason I do it because as I've, like, tried to heal my relationship with food and, like, gone through the motions with that and, like, things have changed and there's definitely ups and downs. But I would say that I eat a lot more, like, quote, unhealthy food now. My attitude really generally is, like, that I want to eat healthy meals, like, most of the time and, like, make sure I'm getting enough nutrition.

但除此之外，我真的不在乎自己是否在吃不健康的食物。再说一次，所谓的‘不健康’由谁来定义？心理健康在这个话题中又处于什么位置？这些食物让我快乐，比如小时候吃的东西，它们让我开心，你懂我的意思吗？所以，我认为这其中也有这方面的因素。

But then outside of that, I don't really care, like, if I'm eating foods that aren't good for me. And again, like, quote, not good for you because who is to determine that? And, like, where's mental health in that chat? Like, you know, these foods make me happy, like, foods that I used to eat as a kid, they make me happy, like, you know what I mean? So yeah, I think there's some aspect of that in it as well.

是的，只要我摄入足够的营养，比如吃各种水果蔬菜，摄入碳水化合物、脂肪、蛋白质、矿物质等等。只要这些方面没问题，我也乐意吃其他可能不完全属于这些类别的食物。所以，是的。我主要的原因是为了动物。这就是我保持素食的原因。

And yeah, as long as I'm like getting enough nutrition in terms of like eating a good range of like fruits and veggies and eating like carbs, fats, protein, minerals, etcetera. As long as my, like, that is good, I'm happy to, like, eat other food as well, like, that might not fit into those categories as much. So, yeah. And my main reasoning is for the animals. That is why I stay vegan.

我之前确实有过一次心理挣扎，如果你愿意这么形容的话。我在想，为什么我要吃素？因为当人们问我为什么吃素时，我有一个标准答案。但当你长期坚持某件事时，说实话，其他食物甚至不在我的考虑范围内。我认为重要的是要自我反省，问问自己：我为什么这么做？我想继续这样做吗？

I did have, like, a a mind fuck, if you if you will, a while ago where I was like, why am I vegan? Because it's one of those things where I have, like, a stock answer for when people ask me, like, why are you vegan? But when you've done something for so long like this, honestly, just other food isn't even on my radar. And I do think it's important to, like, check-in with yourself and be like, why am I doing this? Do I want to keep doing this?

素食是一种相当限制性的饮食。虽然现在有越来越多的选择，但如果你去一家非素食餐厅，菜单上可能有50或30道菜，但素食选项大概只有一到四个。这确实很受限。此外，这其中还涉及道德感，比如我认为动物不应该被用于生产动物产品等等。然后你会觉得必须坚持这样做，因为这是你的信念，绝不能违背。然而，有很多事情我并不认同，但由于社会原因，你不得不参与其中，比如蔬菜是谁种的、谁采摘的、供应链上的每个人是否得到了公平的报酬？

It is a reasonably restrictive diet. And while there are, like, more and more options all the time, if you go to a restaurant that isn't vegan, there's likely one, two, three, probably max four options on a menu of, like, 50 things or on a menu of, like, 30 things. And that is like that is restrictive, you know, to to only be choosing from those things. And there's also like this sort of sense of morality wrapped up in it, like, you know, I believe that like animals shouldn't be like used for like animal products, etcetera. And then you kind of have this like, yeah, just like a sense of morality wrapped up within it that you need to do this because it's like what you believe in and you can never slip up when, you know, there are plenty of things that I don't believe in that due to like, I guess society, you kind of do have to partake in, whether that be, you know, you know, who grew your vegetables, who picked them, has everybody along the supply chain been paid fairly?

你能负担得起购买那些确保供应链待遇良好的品牌吗？还有很多其他事情，比如你的汽油和电力来自哪里？你的手机电池可能是在刚果制造的，这对开采电池材料的人和环境都有巨大影响。我参与了很多我并不支持的事情，但这真的很难。我认为不参与所有这些事情几乎是不可能的。说实话，我不知道除了住在农场、自给自足之外还能怎么做，但这不是我想要的生活。

Like, can you afford to buy from brands that ensure the supply chain is treated well? And you know, plenty of other things like, you know, where does your gas come from and your electric and like, you know, your phone probably has a battery that was made in, you know, I think they're made in Congo, which, like, drastically impacts the people that mine the stuff for the battery and also, like, the environment of that place. You know, there are so many things that I partake in that I don't think I stand behind, but it's really hard. Like, I don't think it would be possible to not partake in all of those things. Like, genuinely, I don't really know how you could do that without, like, just living on a farm and, like, creating everything yourself, which isn't a life that I want.

而且我觉得你不必那样做。你无法做到所有那些事情并不是你的错。但这又很困难，因为你会想，好吧，那我就挑一些来做，或者尽量在某些时候做到。

Like, it and I don't feel like you have to do that. Like, it really is not your fault that you can't do all those things. But then it's difficult because it's like, okay. Well, then I'll pick and choose. I'll do some of them or I'll try and do them sometimes.

是的，这确实很难，对吧？快时尚也是一样。我尽量不买快时尚品牌的东西，但偶尔还是会买。有时候真的没办法，我尽量不去做，大多数时候也能做到，但有些情况下就是不行，这取决于你的财务状况、身材等等。这些问题总是涉及更多的交叉因素。食物方面尤其如此，某些食物与你的文化、出身和传统紧密相关。

And, yeah, it gets difficult, doesn't it? Like, the same thing with fast fashion. I try really hard to never really buy from fast fashion brands, but, like, I do occasionally, and there's just not much you know, I try really I do really try not to do it and I don't for the most part, but there's, like, some things where it just doesn't work and, like, depends on, like, your financial situation and, like, your size and stuff. Like, there's always more, like, intersectionalities to be addressed with these issues. And another aspect, especially with food, is, like, certain foods are, like, really wrapped up in, like, your culture and, like, where you're from and, like, your heritage and stuff.

所以出于环保原因放弃它们会非常困难，而且对每个人的影响不尽相同。素食在印度非常普遍，印度烹饪中素食占很大比重。除此之外，其实乳制品和鸡蛋并不多。印度奶酪算一种，但说实话我也不太了解。

So giving them up for, like, maybe environmental reasons would be so difficult, and it doesn't impact everybody the same. Vegetarian food is, like, very common in India and, like, in Indian cooking. Being vegetarian is, like, a huge thing there. And then other than that, there's not actually a lot of, like, dairy and eggs. Paneer is one thing, but, like, I don't know.

其实我从没真正吃过印度奶酪，我家也不怎么做这个。还有酥油，类似黄油质地的食材。但它同样不是菜肴的主要成分。所以如果你要求不放酥油...

I was actually I never really eaten paneer. My family don't really make that. And then ghee also, which is like a kind of butter consistency thing. But again, like, it doesn't really it's not the main element of the dish. So and often, like, if you say, can I have it without ghee?

店家通常很乐意，因为酥油比植物油贵得多。当然实际是否真不放酥油不得而知，但我想说的是，我文化背景中的饮食转为纯素食并不算太难。所以这事真的因人而异。嗯。

They're actually, like, happy because ghee is kind of expensive compared to just, vegetable oil. Obviously, like, you know, who knows if they actually do it without ghee and whatever, but what I'm trying to say is like the food that's like part of my culture isn't it's not that difficult for me really to to eat it vegan. So yeah, I feel like it really does depend on the person. Yes. Okay.

现在你们了解我的现状了。几个月前当我产生这些摇摆不定的想法时，我深思了一些事。我意识到——虽然这很随机且目前完全不是问题，未来十年也不会是——如果我将来有孩子，我不会让他们从出生就吃纯素。我愿意让他们吃素，但纯素食限制太多，我认为这不利于培养健康的饮食观念，从小被告知在大多数餐厅几乎没什么能吃的。

So now we're up to speed on like where I'm at now. And these few months ago when I had this like, not like wobble, kinda like a some thoughts, I fathomed some things. I came to the realization that I know this is so random and not a problem for now in any sense, not a problem for, ten years really. If I ever have kids, I will not be raising them vegan like from birth. I would love to raise them vegetarian but vegan, I just think is too restrictive and I don't think it really fosters a very good relationship with food to be told from such a young age that you're barely allowed anything on the menu at most restaurants.

参加朋友生日派对时几乎没什么你能吃的，必须吃特殊食物，我觉得这不是建立良好饮食关系的方式。当然很多人这样长大也没问题，但作为曾有过饮食障碍的人——这真的很糟糕——我有意识地不想让孩子经历这些。然后我开始想：那我为何要这样要求自己？现在不同因为我是成年人，但我会想：如果我给他们做素食，我自己会吃别的吗？

If you're at like your friend's birthday party, hardly anything there is allowed for you. You have to eat these special foods and I just don't think that it fosters the best relationship with food. And I'm sure that like plenty of people will have been raised that way and it's turned out great, but as somebody who has got and has had a hard relationship with food and it sucks, like it's really not a fun thing to have, I I'm just conscious and I I don't want that for them. And then I start to think, okay, so why do I want it for myself? And it's different now because I'm like an adult, but I think, okay, well, if I was feeding them vegetarian food, would I eat something different?

这一切都有点令人困惑。我觉得将来某天——虽然还不确定——可能会这样：当给他们吃普通奶酪披萨时，我也会吃同样的，因为不想让他们看到我限制饮食。当然可以解释这是为了动物权益，与节食无关，但我仍觉得整体氛围可能不是我想要的。

Like, it's just all a little bit like, yeah, confusing. And I do think at some point, maybe, I don't know, have no nothing's for sure but I think at some point I might be like okay well I'm feeding them pizza with regular cheese on it, I'm also gonna eat pizza with regular cheese on it because I also don't want to see them to see me, like, restricting in a certain way. And obviously, you can justify it by saying, like, I'm doing this for the animals. It's nothing to do with, like, you know, dieting or anything like that. But I still feel like the general vibe is maybe not what I want.

重申下，这对很多人确实有效。况且我才23岁，离生孩子远得很，本不该对此发表意见。但这确实是我常思考的问题。我想未来某天我可能会选择蛋奶素食。

And again, I'm sure it's worked for, like, loads of people. And also, what do I know? I'm 23 years old, like, nowhere near having kids. Like, I have nothing really to say on the matter, but there's just something that I think about. And, I think probably at some point I will have vegetarian.

我永远不会吃肉或鱼，但我可能会再次成为素食者，即使是非常偶尔的那种。还有一些童年食物会让我产生很多怀旧情绪，我很想再次品尝。所以也许在某个时候，不是特别具体或奢侈的东西，只是一些我们过去常吃而我有点想念的食物。是的，即使过了八年，我仍然会想念某些东西。

I would never eat meat or fish, but I probably would be vegetarian again, even if it was like very sparingly. There are also a few foods from my childhood which would bring me a lot of nostalgia and I would love to eat again. So maybe at some point, nothing really specific or like extravagant, but just a few foods that like we used to eat a lot and I kinda miss. Yeah. There's some things that I do miss even eight years on.

实际上，我曾经有十五年是非纯素食者（素食者），然后纯素食已经八年了，差不多占了我生命的三分之一。到我30岁时，我纯素食的时间将超过非纯素食的时间。即使过了这么多年，仍然有些东西我会想念，而且我认为本可以更好。比如，纯素奶酪的替代品并不好。如果你想要奶酪拼盘可能还行，但如果你想要披萨上的奶酪，那种融化和质地就不好。我尝试过很多种，也听过很多人说'哦，这一款终于尝起来像奶酪了'。

I've actually so I was vegetarian or like not vegan for fifteen years and then I've been vegan for eight years so like a third of my life. Like by the time I'm 30 half of I will have been vegan for longer than I wasn't vegan and you know even after all these years there are still some things that I do miss and I think that would be better. Like, the vegan alternatives for cheese are not good. I think they're fine if you want, like, a cheese board, but if you want, like, pizza cheese, the meltability and, like, the texture is good. And I have tried so many, and so many people I have heard be like, oh, there's this specific one, and this is the one that finally tastes like cheese.

听起来很令人兴奋。但当我尝试后，我觉得不行。它不一样，不是以前那种感觉。那种拉丝感。

It's so exciting. And then I try it, and I'm like, no. It's not the same. It's not what it was. The stretchiness.

是的，就是不一样。所以这是我怀念的一点。我真的很喜欢纯素巧克力。至于鸡蛋，我其实不太在意。我从来不怎么吃它们，所以也无所谓。

And, yeah, it's just not the same. So that's one thing that I I miss. I really like vegan chocolate. Eggs, it's like I don't really care about eggs. Like, I don't really want I never really ate them that much, but, like, you know, I'm not whatever kind of thing.

我对鸡蛋真的不感兴趣。而且你可以买到很好的纯素蛋糕。虽然不用鸡蛋做蛋糕有点困难，但绝对可行。我吃过很多美味的纯素蛋糕，周围很多人也向我保证它们尝起来和普通蛋糕一样。我也同意。

I don't really care about eggs. And you can get good vegan cake. Like, it's difficult to make cake and stuff without eggs, but it's definitely doable. I've had loads of, like, amazing vegan cakes and been assured by a lot of people around me that they are really it tastes like regular cake. And, like, I agree.

我真的觉得味道一样。所以是的。好吧。我在Instagram上征求了一些小问题和想法，因为这是一个非常复杂的话题，涉及很多方面。一方面，我想讨论成为纯素食者或拥有这些饮食要求对每个人来说有多么不同，另一方面我也想谈谈我的个人经历。

Like, I really think it tastes the same. So yeah. Okay. I asked for some little questions and, like, thoughts and stuff on Instagram because this is such a complicated topic, and there's so many things there's so many elements because it's, on one hand, I kinda wanted to discuss, like, how being vegan or, like, having these dietary, like, requirements and stuff is super different for, like, everybody. But then I also wanna talk about my personal experience.

所以，是的，在Instagram上询问你们的想法。如果你们想参与未来的节目，Instagram账号是growing_with_the_flow_underscore_podcast。你们可以看看，如果想为未来节目投稿的话。好的，其中一个热门问题是：你会让你的孩子成为纯素食者/素食者吗？

So, yeah, ask on Instagram for your thoughts. And if you ever want to if you wanna ever wanna be a part of a future episode, the Instagram is growing with the flow underscore podcast. So you can have a little look at that if you want to, like, submit for future episodes. Okay. So one of the top questions is would you raise your kids veganvegetarian?

我会把他们培养成素食者而非纯素食者。我认为素食主义更易被理解。通常只需去掉菜肴中的肉类，我觉得这样简单得多。即使在两千年代初——那时与现在截然不同——我也从未感到作为素食者特别受限。

I would raise them vegetarian but not vegan. I think vegetarianism is, like, much more understood. And typically, you can just remove, like, the meat from the dish or, like I don't know. I just think it's, like, a lot more it's a lot easier. I never felt, like, particularly restricted as a vegetarian, even, like, in the early two thousands, which when is when it was very different to now.

现在我认识很多铁杆肉食者，但他们乐意每周吃一顿素食。所以我觉得观念在改变。我会选择素食养育，除非孩子长大后自己选择纯素。如何应对有饮食限制史的纯素主义？我必须明确：纯素主义并不适合所有人。如果你有饮食限制史，这种饮食方式可能不适合你。

And I know a lot of people now who are, like, hardcore meat eaters but would happily eat, like, one vegetarian meal a week. So I think it is changing, and I would raise the vegetarian but probably not vegan until they're, like, older if that was what they wanted. How to navigate veganism with a history of restrictive eating? I wanna be really clear in that I don't think veganism is for everybody. And if you have a history with restrictive eating, there's a chance this diet isn't for you.

我觉得这没关系。有些人会充当'纯素警察'，这些人很极端。虽然他们被过度妖魔化——人们总问'你是那种极端纯素者吗？'，可我从未真正遇到过。这些人到底在哪？

And I think that's okay. Sometimes people can be, you know, the vegan police, they are crazy people. And I do think they are they get more rep than they actually deserve because people are like, are you one of those crazy vegans? It's like, I've never really met any of these crazy vegans. Where are they?

或许社交媒体上有几个嗓门大的，但现实中几乎遇不到。回到问题核心：如何应对饮食限制史？我认为关键在于保持高度自我觉察，不断审视自己的行为动机。因为纯素主义其实很有趣——比如派对上，人们常会嫉妒纯素选项，因为制作者真的在风味调配上下足了功夫。

Like, maybe there's a couple people being loud on social media, but don't really ever meet anyone like that. But yeah, in general, how to navigate it with a history of restrictive eating? I think you just have to be like really self aware and like check yourself as to what you're doing and why you're doing it. Yeah. Because on one hand, veganism is actually really exciting because I do think sometimes vegan food at parties, for example, people will be jealous of the vegan option because the people who have made it have actually put genuine effort into the flavor profile because I don't know why, but sometimes people assume that, like, a meat dish, for example, is gonna be good just because it's, like, regular and, like, you know, you just make it the classic way.

虽然有时你只能吃到蘑菇烩饭，但偶尔纯素选项反而更出彩，因为人们精心考虑了风味搭配。这正是纯素主义的乐趣所在——尝试各种新食材，特别是蔬菜和香料。如果你从未关注过饮食烹饪，纯素主义会是个有趣的挑战——当然前提是它适合你。

But often people put extra effort into the vegan option. Not always. Often, you're just stuck with, a mushroom risotto, but sometimes you do get, like, a better option than everybody else because people have really thought about the flavors. And I think this is a fun part of veganism, like trying so many other foods and like especially vegetables and like spices and stuff like there's so many fun foods to try. And if you have never really thought about your diet or like cooking or something, veganism is kind of a fun challenge if if it works for you and it doesn't work for everyone.

如果能以尝试新食谱为乐，把食物视为探索的乐趣，这会是种健康的饮食观。所以这事有两面性，我的建议就是保持自我觉察。如果做不到，或许现在不是转型的时机。下个问题：纯素者如何保证营养均衡？这显然很重要。

But if you can find it fun in that way and like you're trying all these new recipes and new meals, I do think that can be really exciting and like a healthy way to look at food is like an exciting thing to try. So I think there's two sides to the coin and the only advice I have or like recommendation is that you just are like really self aware with it. And if you don't feel like you can be self aware with it, maybe it's not the right time. This question is how do you get your macrosstay nutritionally sound as a vegan? Obviously this is important.

人们一听说你是纯素者就紧张你的营养摄入，但那些顿顿吃鸡块从不碰蔬菜的人却很少被质疑。吃肉并不自动等于均衡饮食，所以这种质疑本身就不合理。当然个案存在，关键还是看具体执行方式。

I kind of think people are all up in arms about your macros and your nutrition when they found out you're vegan, but, like, people that eat chicken nuggets for every meal and never eat any vegetables, I'm not hating on that diet. I'm just saying in general, those people don't tend to get questioned about their nutrition. Like, just because you eat meat, it doesn't really mean that it's not a guarantee that you're then having a balanced diet, you know? So I don't think this is really, like, the most sound argument. Obviously, there's cases, and again, it depends how you're doing it.

但对我来说，我觉得如果有什么不同的话，我现在更可能摄入全天所需的蔬菜量，因为蔬菜在我的餐食中占比更大了。再说，不健康的肉食饮食方式有很多，不健康的途径也很多。我认为有些人吃素不健康，有些人吃肉也不健康。我不认为这之间存在人们想象的那么强的相关性。而且我也不确定。

But for me, I feel like if anything, I'm much more likely to have all of my, like, veggies for the day because veggies are, like, a bigger part of my meals now. And again, there are so many unhealthy meat eating diets, so many ways to be unhealthy. I think some people are unhealthy as vegans and some people are unhealthy as meat eaters. I don't think there's as much of a correlation as people assume. And I don't know.

我没有数据支持这一点。但总的来说，我思考餐食的方式是，通常会先考虑包含什么蛋白质，然后是什么蔬菜。至于脂肪和碳水化合物，我往往会在不经意间添加，因为它们能让饭菜更美味。所以我不需要过多考虑这些，但每餐我都会确保有蔬菜、蛋白质、碳水化合物和脂肪，不过在规划时会更注重蛋白质和蔬菜，然后根据心情添加其他东西。比如，如果我在想今晚要吃面条。

I've got no data to back that up. But in general, the way I think about meals is I normally try and think about what protein will it include and then what veggies will it include. And then fats and carbs, I then tend to add without having to try just because they make the meal good. So I don't have to like think about them as much, but I always will have veggies, protein, carbs, and fat in the meal, but I'll, like, focus more on the protein and the vegetables in the planning process and then just add whatever, like, I'm in the mood for. So for example, if I'm having, like I'm thinking, okay.

那么蛋白质是什么？我可能会想，好吧，就用豆腐吧。蔬菜呢？

I'm gonna have noodles tonight. So what protein? I'd probably think, okay. That'll be tofu. What vegetables?

炒菜有点不同，因为蔬菜种类很多，但我可能会用胡萝卜、西兰花、甜椒、蘑菇之类的，手边有什么就用什么。然后自然会有面条作为碳水化合物。至于脂肪，我通常会做花生沙爹酱。这就是我思考餐食的方式。再举个例子，比如你想吃意大利面，我可能会用素食香肠或素食肉丸之类的。

Stir fry is a bit different because there's so many vegetables, but I probably would do, like, carrots, broccoli, pepper, mushrooms, whatever you've got really. And then naturally, obviously, there's noodles there, so that's the carbs. And then for the fats, I normally make like a peanut satay sauce. So that's like how kind of how I think about meals. Another example, like say you want pasta, I would probably have veggie sausages or veggie meatballs or something.

我不常吃肉类替代品，因为我从不吃肉，所以它们对我没什么吸引力，但偶尔，比如每周一次或每两周一次，我会吃一点。通常我的蛋白质来源是豆腐、豆类和扁豆这类食物。我对替代品不太热衷。所以说到意大利面，我可能会想，好吧。

I don't eat a lot of alternatives just because I never eat meat so they're not that appealing to me, but every now and then maybe like once a week or like once every two weeks I will have them. But normally I get protein from like, tofu, beans and pulses like lentils that sort of thing. I'm not big on the alternatives. Yeah. So then with the pasta, I'd probably think, okay.

可能会配番茄酱和蘑菇，有时我会加坚果之类的补充脂肪，或者像吃塔可时，会有牛油果那种东西。所以我总是从蛋白质和蔬菜开始规划。当然，我不是每顿饭都这样，因为人生苦短，没必要每顿都追求完美平衡。只要总体上我觉得摄入了所需的营养，其他方面我就随性了。

We'll probably have tomato sauce with mushrooms, and then sometimes I would put, like, nuts in it or something for the fat or, you know what I mean, like, you're having tacos, okay, you've got the avocado, like, that sort of thing. So I always start with the protein and the vegetables. And again, I don't do that for every meal because life is too short to eat the perfectly balanced meal for every meal. As long as I feel like overall I'm getting the nutrition that I need, I'm fine with, like, other things. So yeah.

别人在你面前吃非素食食物会让你不舒服吗？不会。人们总是说，哦，抱歉，我在你面前吃这个你介意吗？其实我完全不在意。

Does it bother you when other people eat non vegan food? No. And people always say like, oh, sorry. Do you mind if I eat this in front of you? It doesn't bother me.

我不在乎，真的。我家里虽然从小吃素长大，但我爸一直吃肉，我弟弟也是从小就开始吃肉。所以我一直生活在这样的环境中，这对我来说没什么。而且总的来说，我觉得对别人的饮食习惯指手画脚有点奇怪。这根本不关你的事。

I don't, like, I don't care. I grew up with in my house, did grow up vegetarian, but my dad always ate meat and my brother started eating meat from a young age as well. So I've always been around it and, like, it doesn't bother me. And just in general, I feel like it's a bit weird to be bothered by other people's diets. Like, it's just not it's just not your business.

除非你真心关心他们的健康，否则我觉得这真的与你无关。这就是我的想法。哦，这个挺有意思。好吧。这个人已经吃素四年了。

Like, unless you're genuinely concerned for their health, I don't think it really, like, it's it's just nothing to do with you. So that's my mindset anyway. Oh, this is interesting. Okay. This person has been vegan for four years.

我发现约会很难。男人通常不把这当回事，而且纯素食的男人也不多。另一个值得讨论的方面是素食主义的道德问题，比如环保或动物权益等。通常是女性出于积极的原因做出这种改变。我弟弟曾经是素食主义者。

I find it hard to date. Men usually don't take it seriously, and there aren't many, like, vegan men. Another It's good aspect to talk about with this is that the morality of being vegan or, like, you know, whether you think that's, like, the environmental issues or, like, animal issues, etcetera. Typically it's women who do this and like make the change for like a positive reason. So yeah, I will say my brother was vegan.

他现在不吃了，但坚持了好几年。所以这样的人是存在的，我觉得人数也不少。我个人不需要约会对象也是素食者，只要他们尊重我的饮食习惯就行。比如一起吃饭时，我不希望他们觉得每顿都必须吃肉，一起做饭的话，我希望他们愿意尝试素食。但确实，纯素食男性要少得多。

He's not vegan anymore, but he was vegan for like a good few years. So they are out there and I'm like, I feel like there are plenty of people. I personally don't, again, I don't need to date somebody who's vegan or vegetarian like, as long as they're like happy with my diet and I do prefer to like for example if we're eating together I wouldn't want them to feel like they had to eat meat in every meal like if we're cooking together I would want probably them to be open to eating veggie like, vegan food. But, yeah, I don't I don't know. But it's completely fair to feel like that, and it's difficult because there really are way less vegan men.

少得多。哦，这个人只是在问好吃的素食推荐。太棒了。我有几个常做的拿手菜，偶尔也会尝试新食谱，大概每隔几周一次。

Way way less. Oh, okay. This person's just asking for recommendations for good vegan food. Love it. I have a few recipes that I have, like, on rotation that I like north by heart, and then I try and make a new recipe, like, every now and then, maybe every couple weeks.

我的食谱库里有：花生沙爹酱炒豆腐蔬菜面、塔可——通常用蘑菇、甜椒和豆腐加香料炒制，配上生菜、鳄梨酱和软塔可饼皮。

So recipes in my repertoire. Tofu and vegetable noodle stir fry with, a peanut satay sauce. Tacos. So I'd normally do mushrooms and peppers with tofu and, like, the spices in a pan and then salad leaves, guacamole, and, like, the taco shells. I like the soft ones.

另一道是意面，我超爱Otolangi菜谱里的茄子意面。如果有那本食谱，一定要试试。还有蘑菇番茄意面配素香肠。我从Bosch食谱书里学了一道印尼咖喱，用西葫芦和甜椒加椰奶，咖喱酱也是自制的。

That's the other meal. Pasta, I would I have this aubergine pasta that I love from Otolangi. If you have that cookbook, the aubergine pasta is amazing. I also just like, like, mushroom tomato pasta with veggie sausages. There's this Indonesian curry that I got in a recipe book from Bosch, and it's courgette and pepper, I think, and then coconut milk, like and you make the curry paste yourself and stuff.

然后我还会用豆腐搭配。他们当时没有豆腐，但我通常会做烤豆腐，搭配米饭，有时也配面包。让我想想还有什么？我偶尔会吃汉堡。

And then I also do tofu with that. They didn't have tofu, but I do, like, baked tofu with that, and I normally serve that with, like, rice and sometimes bread as well. Let me think. What's else? I sometimes have burgers.

大概每月一次，我会吃个汉堡配土豆块和沙拉。我没有特别钟爱的汉堡，虽然很喜欢Lyndon McCartney的产品，但个人更偏好辣味豆饼汉堡，而不是Moving Mountains或Beyond Burger那种，只是不太合我口味，当然各有所好。早餐方面，我超爱豆腐炒蛋。

Maybe, like, once a month, I'll have a burger with, potato wedges and then, like, salad. I don't have a favorite burger. I do really like Lyndon McCartney stuff, but I personally would pick a spicy bean burger over, like, a moving mountains or, a beyond burger. Just it's just not really my thing, but obviously each their own. Breakfast wise, I love tofu scramble.

我通常用蘑菇、番茄和豆腐一起下锅，加些姜黄粉和烟熏红椒粉翻炒，然后夹在贝果里吃。有时只涂黄油，有时配牛油果。也可以卷在墨西哥饼里做成早餐卷饼。其他喜欢的早餐就是酸奶配格兰诺拉麦片，或者简单吐司。其实我不算早餐大户。

I normally do it with mushrooms and tomatoes all in the pan together and some turmeric, smoked paprika, fry that all up and then have that on like a bagel. Sometimes just with butter or with avocado sometimes. You can also put that in a wrap and have it as like a breakfast burrito. Other breakfasts I like are just like yogurt and granola or just toast. I'm actually not a massive breakfast person so yeah.

午餐我特别喜欢古斯米沙拉，搭配烤蔬菜、鹰嘴豆泥、石榴籽之类的，或者意面沙拉。同样喜欢加烤蔬菜的意面沙拉。前几天还吃了法拉费配烤甜椒、西葫芦、洋葱和鹰嘴豆泥。

Yeah. I also really like for lunches, like couscous salad kind of thing with, like, roasted vegetables, hummus, pomegranate seeds, that sort of thing, or pasta salad. Also love pasta salad with, like, again, roasted vegetables. Yeah. The other day, I had falafel, roasted peppers and courgettes, and onion, hummus.

我做了个小沙拉配皮塔饼，类似希腊扁面包，非常美味。其实我超爱美食，现在收藏了好多好食谱。你觉得这样吃更省钱还是更费钱？好吧...

I made like a little salad and then pita bread kind of things, like Greek flatbreads. That was delicious. So, yeah, I I love I actually love food and I have so many good recipes at the moment. Do you find it to be cheaper or more expensive? Okay.

这完全取决于具体饮食方式。如果买大量替代食品肯定更贵，因为通常是小众品牌生产的。如果以豆类、蔬菜为主，我认为可以更省钱，但这真的因人而异。当然素食不适合所有人，我并非说它普遍更便宜，但确实存在这种可能。烹饪时间方面，新手可能需要更久，但总体而言素食烹饪很快，因为肉类通常需要长时间烹调。

This is so dependent on the way specifically you eat. If you're gonna buy loads of alternatives, it is more expensive, because it's, like, normally small brands that have made those. If you focus more on eating beans and pulses and vegetables, I do think that can be cheaper, but again, it really does depend and obviously it's not for everyone, so I'm not, like, trying to say it's cheaper in general, but I think it can be and yeah. It depends. I think sometimes it can take longer if you're not used to cooking it, but in general, I'd say vegan food is quite quick because meat is typically the stuff that you cook for, like, a long time.

比如之前说的炒菜只要20分钟，鸡肉炒菜可能也差不多时间。但总的来说，肉类最耗时。我成年后一直保持纯素食。

Like, that stir fry I talked about, that takes, like, twenty minutes. And I'm sure, like, a chicken stir fry would also take twenty minutes, but you know what I mean. Just I think in general, meat is what takes the longest. So, yeah. I have never been an adult and been not vegan.

比如，我15岁就转成纯素食者了，那个年纪还不用自己每周采购食物。所以我从一开始就是以素食者的身份进行每周采购的，这还挺有意思的。不过比起同住的朋友或聊过的人，我不觉得自己比他们花得更多，当然这也取决于具体情况。非素食也有昂贵食物，关键看你买什么。对二手皮革制品怎么看？

Like, I turned vegan when I was 15, so I wasn't doing my weekly food shop at that age. So I've always done my weekly food shop as a vegan, which is kind of interesting. But, yeah, I don't like in comparison to the people I'm living with or, like, friends and stuff that I've spoken to, I don't feel like I'm spending any more than they are, but obviously it depends. There's expensive food that isn't vegan as well, know, depends what you're buying. Thoughts on secondhand leather?

我个人完全支持。我会尽量避免购买全新皮革制品，但会选择二手货。因为素皮革往往就是塑料制品，如果考虑环境影响，在我看来购买已存在的二手皮革反而更环保——既然动物已经为那双鞋付出了生命，至少让鞋子物尽其用吧？这是我的理念，所以我会买二手皮具。你家人朋友对你吃素有什么反应？

Personally, I'm here for that. I don't really I would try not to buy leather first hand. I would buy it second hand because vegan leather is often just plastic, and if you're thinking about your environmental impact, it's probably, in my vision, better to buy secondhand leather which already exists and it's like if the animal has died for those shoes, like at least let them be worn, you know? Well that's my mindset anyway, so yeah, I would buy secondhand leather. What's your family and friends reaction to being vegan?

我妈妈现在也是素食者了。她从小按素食方式养育我，我转纯素后她虽然隔了几年才跟进，但后来也成了素食者。家里其他人都不在意，不过有时我的印度亲戚会说'别这样，你在搞什么名堂？'

My mom is vegan as well now. She raised me vegetarian and she when I turned vegan, she did she wasn't vegan for a few years, but she did turn after a while, and she's vegan as well. No one in my family cares. Sometimes my Indian relatives are like, come on. What are you doing?

就是'为什么啊？'其实大部分食物很容易做成纯素版，但有些长辈会不理解'为什么不能吃酥油？'特别是因为素食主义在他们的文化中根深蒂固——比如我奶奶，我父亲的母亲，基本上终生都是素食者。而在西方世界，素食主义相对算是新事物。

Like, why? Not really because most of the food is really easy to make vegan anyway, but sometimes, like, older people will be like, why can't you eat ghee? Like, it isn't like, why can't you eat it? Especially because they've vegetarianism is, like, a lot more steeped in their culture and, like, they have been like, my grandma, for example, like, dad's mom has been vegetarian, like, her whole life, basically, I think. And vegetarianism is more new in, like, the Western world.

所以在他们眼里会觉得'这算怎么回事？素食主义自古就有，何必多此一举？'不过总的来说也就是随口一提，没有深意。

So I think in their eyes, it's a bit more like, this is like, what like, what are you doing? Like, vegetarianism has always been a thing. Like, why do you need to, like, go this extra step? But in general, it's just, one comment. It's not and it's not deep.

更像是个玩笑话。我朋友们则完全无所谓。有人说'我认同理念但觉得圈子里太多偏激言论'，我深有同感，这确实是个难题。

It's like a joke. So yeah. And my friends don't care at all. This person says, I like the idea behind it, but thought there's so much toxicity. I really agree, and it is difficult.

我现在没怎么参与纯素社群。以前有过素食朋友，倒不是绝交了，只是不住在同一个地方。目前应该没有经常见面的素食朋友。

I don't really interact with, like, veganism. I don't have currently. I have had vegan friends in the past. Not people that I'm not friends with anymore, just like that I don't live in the same place as. But currently, don't think I have any vegan friends that I like see regularly.

是的，显然我妈是素食者，但我们不住在一起，也不怎么讨论素食主义。所以我觉得自己并没有真正以这种方式接触它。关键在于这对某些人可能有害，对其他人则不然。这完全取决于你自己做决定，也取决于他人能否接受你的选择。当人们评论别人的饮食，或者把这件事极端化时，我觉得很不公平，毕竟涉及太多因素了。

And yeah, obviously my mom is, but like, we don't live together, and we don't really talk about veganism. So, yeah, I don't think that I really, like, interact with it in this way. And I think the key is that it can be toxic for some people and then it isn't for others. And it's just that, like, up to you to make that decision and up to everybody else to accept your decision. I don't think it's fair when people comment on other people's diets and when people, yeah, like, take it really far, especially because there's so many elements.

比如文化因素、性别层面、你与食物的整体关系、经济成本问题，还有个人的自主权等等。

There's, like, your cultural elements. There's, like, the gendered aspect. There's your relationship with food in general. There's the money side of it. There's, like, your own, like, autonomy.

比如你是否和父母同住？谁负责购买食物？也许你无法选择吃什么。还有你身体的特殊性——如果你肠胃敏感，或患有肠易激综合征，很多人对豆类、鹰嘴豆等食物会有不良反应。

Like, do you live with your parents? Who buys your food? Maybe you can't choose what food you're eating. There's also just, the way your body works. Like, if you have a sensitive tummy or you have, like, IBS or something like a lot of people have bad reactions to, I think, like, beans and pulses and, like, chickpeas and stuff sometimes.

我不知道。但我知道同样的饮食对不同人的身体会产生不同反应。所以这事真的有很多层次，关键是要坚持自己的选择，别太在意他人。不过我得说，现实中我很少遇到对此指手画脚或态度粗鲁的人。

I don't know. But I know that for some people, the same obviously, this can be true. The same diet for different people, their bodies would react differently. So, yeah, it's just so layered, and it it is key to just, like, do your own thing and, like, stay in your own lane a little bit. I will say I've not met met many people who are judgy or are, like, rude about it.

所以如果你担心被评判而犹豫尝试，或者哪怕只想每周吃一天/一顿素食——现在有种非黑即白的思维，我觉得是被那些激进素食者助长的。这不公平，其实参与的人越多越好。另外有人吃素后精力更充沛，也有人更易疲劳，这完全因人而异。某种程度上，素食主义确实带着某种特权色彩。

So I think maybe if you want to give it a go, but you're, like, worried about the judgment, or even if you just wanna be vegan, like, one day a week or one meal a week, sometimes there's this, like, all or nothing mindset, which I think is backed up by people who are, like, militant vegans. And I don't think that that's fair, and I think people you know, the more the merrier, the more the merrier in any sense. So also, another thing is that some people find that they are more energized when they're vegan, some people find they're more fatigued. So, like, it really is just so specific to to yourself. And there is a lot of privilege in in veganism in certain ways.

我不确定...这很复杂，比如许多素食食品价格更高——生日时你应该能吃上生日蛋糕，但纯素蛋糕肯定更贵，这就不公平。从这方面看，它也是个关乎特权的问题。

There isn't there I don't know. It's hard because it there is in a lot of the foods and for, like, for example, you should be able to have birthday cake on your birthday. And I'm sure vegan birthday cake is more expensive. So it's, like, it's not fair. It, like, it is a privileged issue in that way as well.

当人们争论素食话题时你怎么回应？这位说不喜欢冲突。我通常选择超然处之。特别是在大型聚会上，当陌生人发现你是素食者时，总会有人说'我看过某研究'或者'这个那个'之类的话。

How do you respond when people debate about being vegan? This person says they don't like confrontation. I genuinely just choose to rise above. People have said some, like it's especially when you're at, like, a big event with, like, lots of people that you don't really know, and that will come out that you're vegan. People will be like, oh, like, I saw this study or, like, oh, this this this this.

对此我相当有把握，它完全不会困扰我。但我只会让他们说去，让他们继续讲。就是不按他们期待的方式反应，因为这真的没那么严重。另外，我还没提过的是，所有这些素食替代品并非全球各地都能获取，这还取决于你居住的地方、周围环境以及你能接触到的资源。

And I'm quite secure in it, it doesn't bother me at all. But I would just, like, let them talk. Let them keep talking. Just and just not react, like, how they want you to because it really isn't that deep. Also, another thing that I haven't spoken about is that all these vegan alternatives aren't available everywhere in the world and, like, it depends also on where you live and, like, your, like, your, like, surroundings and the access you have.

所以，这又涉及到特权的另一层面。有人问，你服用补充剂或做血液检查吗？目前我没服用任何补充剂，或许应该服用，但我没有。几年前我确实头痛得厉害，当时为此做了血液检查。

So, again, that's, like, another layer to the privilege of it all. Somebody says, do you take supplements or get blood work done? I don't take any supplements at the moment. Maybe I should, but I don't. And no, I did have really bad headaches a couple years ago, and I got blood work done for that at the time.

我17岁时还因病毒感染住院，做了大量血液检查，从未显示任何营养缺乏。虽然这些检查出于其他原因，与饮食无关，但结果都无异常——当然这不代表所有人都如此。这只是我的个人经历。好了，最后一个要回答的问题是：你觉得旅行时坚持素食困难吗？

I've also had like a virus thing when I was like 17 and at the hospital they also I had like a lot of blood work done and I've never had anything come back as like deficient in anything. Like all the blood tests I've had for other reasons, not about my diet, but like they were looking at that, have never come back with any issues but obviously that wouldn't be the case for everybody. So, yeah, that's just my experience. Okay. Last one I'm gonna answer is, do you find it difficult being vegan while traveling?

这可能非常困难，这再次说明素食主义对每个人而言不尽相同，很大程度上取决于你的居住地。比如在印度旅行时相对容易，有时你得对一些细节睁只眼闭只眼。通常我的心态是——尤其在非西方国家，那里素食概念可能不太普及（虽然巴厘岛等地例外）——我会提前研究当地烹饪常用食材和典型菜肴。

This can be really difficult, which again speaks to the volume of how veganism isn't the same for everybody, and it depends so much where you live. For example, living in when we were traveling in India, it was reasonably easy. You kind of have to turn a blind eye to some things. Normally, my mindset is like, I will especially in like a non Western country where it's not as known normally, sometimes it is, like like, for example, in Bali, it's like very well known. But other than that, I normally will do some research about what generally is like used in the cooking and like typical dishes and that sort of thing.

了解些基本情况后，就只能顺其自然了。我确信自己曾无意中摄入过鱼露、酥油，或含酸奶的面包。虽然我会尽量询问清楚，但旅行时多数情况下只能尽力而为——毕竟这是你唯一能做的。我始终认为进食总比饿着强。

Figure out a few things and then just hope for the best. Like, I'm sure that I've had things that I've had, for example, a bit of fish sauce in them or a bit of ghee or maybe the bread had, like, some yogurt in the mixture. And I normally try to ask and, like, be clear, but for the most part when traveling, I just do my very best because that's all you can do. And I would always rather eat than not eat. Yeah.

尤其旅行时，食物至关重要。我也完全理解这种观点：旅行就该尝试当地美食、融入文化，因此暂时放弃素食。我认为这完全合理。所以我只是尽力而为，有时也会寻找素食餐厅——它们通常是小本经营，支持这类企业感觉很好。我们旅行中就遇到过些很棒的地方，专门提供或标注素食。

Especially when you're travelling, like, food is so important. And also, I completely see the argument that, like, you're traveling, you want to try the local food, you want to like immerse in the culture, so you're not vegan while you travel. I also think that's like completely valid. So yeah, I just like try to do my best and also sometimes I will find, like, vegan restaurants and stuff because they're normally just, like, small businesses and nice it's quite nice to, like, support, like, a vegan business. And we went to some really nice places, like, during our travels that had vegan food or, like, was advertised as vegan.

是的，还因此结识了些可爱的人。所以我觉得素食旅行也有积极面，并非全是糟心事。好了，希望这期内容让大家听得愉快。

So, yeah, met some really nice people through it. So I think there's, like, there's positives as well. It's not all, like, bad stuff. Okay. I hope this episode was enjoyable.

我感觉自己说得有点东一句西一句的，同时也希望没有冒犯到任何人。因为这是个相当敏感的话题，但愿我已经把自己的观点解释清楚了。总之，希望你们喜欢。如果有人需要食谱灵感的话，或许接下来我会做些烹饪视频之类的。非常感谢大家的聆听，我们下周见。

I feel like it's been a little bit all the place and I also feel like hopefully I haven't said anything that will upset anyone. Because this is such a difficult topic and yeah, I hopefully have explained like my point of view properly. So yeah, I hope you enjoy. Maybe I'll do some recipe videos or something coming up if anyone wants some meal ideas. But thank you very much for listening and I will see you guys next week.