凯特·温斯莱特："媒体曾称我肥胖！"为何我欣然接受皱纹并力挺女性

真的太棒了。

It's really great.

很多人。

Lots of people.

总是有客人来访。

There's always visitors.

太有趣了。

It's great fun.

是啊，太美好了。

Yeah, so lovely.

还有游戏，很多搞笑的游戏。

And games, lots of silly games.

是啊，非常多非常搞笑的游戏。

Yeah, lots very, very silly games.

天啊。

Oh my God.

去年我们迷上了玩一款叫Soundiculus的游戏。

Last year we got obsessed with playing this game called Soundiculus.

哦，不是

Oh, not

它是一个小盒子，里面有两个卡祖笛和一小叠卡片。

as So it's a little box with two kazoos in it and a little stack of cards.

你需要尝试通过卡祖笛吹出卡片上写的歌曲旋律。

And you have to try and play the tune of the song written on the card, but only through a kazoo.

这简直太好笑了，去年我真的笑到尿裤子了。

It's flipping hilarious and actually totally made me wet myself last year.

人们拼命用力吹，想让声音更清晰，而其他人则大喊着像‘Tootsie’这样的词。

People try to emphatically blow harder to make the things sound clearer when everyone's shouting out things like, Tootsie.

这明显不是‘Tootsie’。

It's clearly not Tootsie.

诸如此类的事情。

That kind of thing.

所以那是个很棒的游戏。

So that was a great game.

然后还有另一个游戏，有人给我们买的，我记不清叫什么了，但特别搞笑。

Then there was another game that somebody got us, which, and I can't remember what it was called, but it was so funny.

这个游戏是每个人戴上一条小塑料腰带，腰带后面垂下来、悬在双腿之间的是一个小塑料钩子。

And it's a game where each person puts on a little plastic belt and attached to the back of the belt that dangles down between the legs is a little sort of plastic hook.

哦，对。

Oh, right.

然后玩法是，你双腿分开，摇摇晃晃地在房间里走动，试图用钩子捡起散落在地板各处的小塑料圈。

And then the idea is that you waddle around the room with your legs straddled, trying to pick up little sort of plastic hoops that are balanced in various places on the floor.

用一个假的威利。

With a fake Willie.

用一个假的威利。

With a fake Willie.

让大家都站起来，那些原本只想坐着吃一盒Quality Street糖果的人，看着他们双腿间挂着一个大大的气球状东西，这简直是我见过最搞笑的事情之一。

And so getting everyone up on their feet, people who were normally just happy to sit there and eat a box of Quality Street, watching them with a great sort of balloon type contraction dangling between their legs is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

是的，我得买一个这个。

Yeah, I need to invest in that one.

我想不起它叫什么了。

I can't remember what it was called.

我真的很喜欢人们做的那些小众又特别的圣诞活动，因为你会逐渐形成一种传统，每年都会做同样的事情。

I really like niche bespoke Christmas things that people do, because you do get into a sort of sense of tradition that you end up doing the same thing every year.

我记得小时候——但这让人感到安心。

I remember when we were kids- But it's comforting.

真的让人安心。

It's so comforting.

这真的很安慰人，也让人感到踏实。

It's really comforting and reassuring.

我太喜欢了。

I love it.

我叔叔每年圣诞节都会放《迈克·李的五月坚果》，那是最不像圣诞电影的电影。

My uncle, every Christmas day would put on Mike Lee's Nuts in May, which is the least Christmas y film ever.

这太好笑了。

That's hilarious.

我们会看这部电影，如果不看这个，就不算过圣诞节。

And we would watch that and it was not Christmas unless we had watched that.

它根本不是一部经典的圣诞电影。

It wasn't a classic Christmas movie.

这真是件奇怪的事。

It's just such a strange thing.

这确实是很奇怪的事。

It's a very strange thing.

它只是

It's a

一部很棒的电影。

great film.

我知道。

I know.

你和我一样，也在和孩子、前伴侣共同抚养的情况下度过圣诞节。

You like me are also navigating Christmas with kids, with ex partners, co parenting.

你处理得怎么样？

Do you navigate that well?

是的，是的，是的。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

这从来就不是什么挑战。

That's never been any kind of a challenge actually at all.

完全没有任何紧张气氛。

There's no tension at all.

我认为我们都很幸运，都是真正关心孩子是否快乐的成年人。

And I think that we're all very fortunate to be grownups who care entirely about children being happy.

所以，过去八年的大部分时间里，我女儿的父亲、他可爱的妻子——我非常感激她出现在我的生命中——还有他们的两个孩子，我们一直一起过圣诞节。

So, no, that hasn't been any kind of an issue for For the majority of the last eight years, my daughter's dad and his lovely wife, who I am just so grateful to have in my life, and their two children, we've all had Christmases together.

这真是太好了。

That's so lovely.

实际上，对于他12岁和15岁的女儿们来说，如果她们不和我们在一起，反而觉得奇怪。

And actually for his daughters who are 12 and 15, it's now weird if they aren't with us.

实际上，米娅的爸爸和我有时候会一起做圣诞大餐。

And actually, Mia's dad and I cook the Christmas dinner sometimes.

这真美好。

That's so lovely.

我知道。

I know.

我从来没有特别提过这件事，因为我们只是自然而然地这样做。

And I haven't particularly, I haven't ever actually talked about that because we just get on with it.

我认为媒体对那些知名情侣或公众人物分手后的关系有一种奇怪的迷恋，总是一阵喧嚣，惊呼‘天啊，他们居然还能相处得很好’。

I think there's a sort of a strange fascination in the media with when high profile couples or people who are in the public eye have separated, there's sort of a huge flurry excitement around, Oh my God, they get on.

当然，我们确实相处得很好。

And of course we bloody do.

我们并没有重新走到一起。

We haven't got books together.

没错，就是这样。

Well, exactly.

正是如此。

Exactly.

正如我所说，吉姆的妻子朱莉是一位非常了不起的女士。

As I say, Jim's wife, Julie, she's just such a spectacular lady.

我非常感激她成为米娅的继母。

And I just feel so grateful to have had her as Mia's stepmother.

世界上有另一位母亲像你一样深爱着你的孩子，这实在非同寻常。

It's something extraordinary about another mother in the world loving your child the same way that you do.

我对此感到无比感激。

And I just feel incredibly grateful to have that.

是的。

Yeah.

这为每个人带来了和平，对孩子、对你都是如此，这才是前进的方向。

Well, it's peace for everyone, for the kids, for you, that's the way forward.

哦

Oh

是啊。

yeah.

我的女儿米娅现在也当演员了。

I mean, daughter Mia is now also acting.

是的。

Yes.

你们一起赢得了英国电影学院奖，看到你们俩站在领奖台上，那真是美好的时刻。

You won a BAFTA together, which was a gorgeous moment seeing you both up on stage.

我真的无法想象那是一种怎样的感觉。

Like what an I can't even imagine what that felt like.

我的意思是，那简直太不可思议了，真的太不可思议了。

Well, I mean, it was just incredible, absolutely incredible.

而且我觉得，当我的两个大孩子都进入了电影行业时，我非常希望他们能感受到自己是在走自己的路。当时，我明显能感觉到米娅非常想证明她自己能做到。

And I think being in a situation where both of my older children have gone into the film industry and wanting for them to feel as though they were carving their own paths, You know, I definitely felt very strongly from Mia at the time that she really wanted to prove that she could do it.

而且她和我完全不同。

And also that she was different to me.

她是一位和我截然不同的演员，也是个完全不同的人。

She is a very different actress to me, different person.

我们的外貌看起来非常不一样。

We look very differently.

她其实个子很小。

She's actually quite titchy.

我的个子也不算高。

I mean, I'm not that tall.

我才五英尺六英寸，但她只有五英尺二英寸。

I'm only five foot six, but she's about five foot two.

她身上有一种力量感，表演中充满真实感。

And she's got a power to her and a sense of and realism about her acting.

她非常非常自然，事实上，这种自然甚至让人感到不安。

She's very, very natural, unnervingly so, actually, I think.

我为她在《我是露丝》中的表演感到无比自豪，因为每天的拍摄都极具挑战性。

And I was just so proud of her for the performance she gave in I Am Ruth because it was unbelievably challenging every single day.

我认为人们可能不知道的是，《我是露丝》完全是即兴发挥的。

And I think something people perhaps don't know about I Am Ruth was that it was entirely improvised.

剧中没有预先写好的对白。

There was no scripted dialogue.

我们手上没有任何写在纸上的台词。

There was no there were no lines written down for us on a page.

剧本完全由场景描述构成，没有具体台词。

The script was made up entirely of scenes that were just description.

哇。

Wow.

一个字都没写下来。

There were no words written.

所以每天我们都在即兴创作故事情节。

So every day, we were inventing the narrative.

这需要极大的专注力，但更需要她非凡的勇气，因为她必须深入那些令人恐惧的境地，而她确实做到了。

And that took real concentration, but it took from her extraordinary courage because she had to go to places that were very frightening and she bloody well did it.

天啊，她表现得太棒了。

My God, she smashed it.

这太不可思议了。

That's so incredible.

是的。

Yeah.

哦，你为她感到的骄傲——没错，我聪明的女孩。

Oh, the pride that you Yeah, my clever girl.

不可思议。

Incredible.

是的，我确实感到无比自豪。

Yeah, I do feel such extraordinary pride.

然后她还出演了韦斯·安德森执导的《终结计划》，与本尼西奥·德尔·托罗合作。

And then she was in The Finishing Scheme directed by Wes Anderson with Benicio.

她有着非常精彩的职业生涯，她是个勤奋的人，也是一个非常棒的人。

She's had a really great run and she's a hard worker and she's a great, great person.

所以我非常自豪。

So, I'm very proud.

我的意思是，当妈妈无疑是人生中最复杂、最疯狂的旅程。

I mean, obviously, being a mom is just the most complicated wild ride ever.

你希望让孩子自由发展，让他们去做任何让他们快乐的事情。

And you wanna set your kids free and say, go do whatever makes you happy.

看到她进入你所从事的行业，尤其是在这么小的年纪，你有没有感到过担忧？

Was there trepidation in seeing her go into the same industry that you've been in, especially at a young age?

说实话，我不是那种对生活中的任何事情都心怀恐惧的人。

I'm not the kind of person who approaches anything in life with trepidation, to be honest.

所以，答案是否定的。

So, the answer is no.

我的确想过这一点。

I mean, it certainly crossed my mind.

那么，她将如何在一个极其繁忙的行业中应对自己呢？尤其是对她这一代人、作为一个女孩来说，这个行业如今竞争异常激烈。

Okay, how is she gonna handle herself in an industry that is quite frantic and can be, particularly for her generation, particularly as a girl, really competitive, especially right now.

有太多才华横溢的年轻演员正在崛起，做出令人瞩目的成绩，我认为，对年轻人而言，现在正是进入电影行业的绝佳时机。

So many brilliant young actors are coming up and doing such great things, and it's a really exciting time, I think, to be in the film industry for young people.

而且，现在机会非常多。

Plus, there's tons of opportunity now.

当你看看流媒体平台和内容数量时，简直多得惊人。

When you look at the streamers and the content, there's masses of it.

当我16、17岁四处试镜的时候，只有BBC一台、BBC二台，后来才有了ITV。

When I was running around auditioning when I was 16, 17 years old, there was BBC One, BBC Two, eventually we got ITV.

那时候只有广播剧、一些话剧、预算很低的电影——那种电影很少见，还有《星球大战》和《急诊室》这样的片子。

There was radio plays, a bit of theater, low budget films, which were rare, and films like Star Wars and Casualty.

就这些了。

That was it.

还有《案发现场》和《犯罪追踪》。

Or The Bill and Crimewatch.

而那时，如果你能拿到那为数不多的几个人人都争抢的演出机会，就已经算幸运了。

And you were lucky if you got one of those very few gigs that everybody was vying for.

但现在，由于有如此丰富的影视内容，创意正蓬勃发展。

But now that there's this huge wealth of content available, creativity is just going through the roof.

因此，这非常非常令人兴奋。

And so, it's very, very exciting.

但我并不担心米娅无法应对自己。

But I wasn't worried about Mia not being able to handle herself.

我当然也不担心她是否能胜任，因为多年来我一直知道，她从小就会成为一名演员。

And I certainly wasn't worried about whether or not she could do it because I've known for years that she was gonna be an actress from when she was a little girl.

哇。

Wow.

我知道，我只是想，总有一天你会宣布的。

I knew, and I just thought, well, one day you'll declare it.

然后她真的这么做了。

And then she did.

她问：‘你震惊吗？’

And she went, are you shocked?

我说：‘不，一点都不震惊。’

And I was like, no, not remotely.

什么

What

关于媒体这一部分呢？

about the sort of press element to it?

因为again，我和你都知道，媒体有时候有多糟糕。

Because again, I mean, you and I both know different ways that they can be bloody awful.

我确实经历过地狱般的磨难。

And I've certainly been to hell and back.

你自己的生活中也经历过类似的挑战。

You've had your own challenges in your own life with that.

你有没有给她一些建议？或者你个人是否担心她踏入这个领域？

Do you sort of offer words of advice or did you feel personally worried about her stepping into that?

是啊，我的孩子只有在主动问我时，我才会给他们建议。

Yeah, mean, I've only ever given my kids advice if they've asked for it.

我从不强迫他们接受任何东西，因为我希望他们能完全走自己的路。

I've never forced anything onto them because I do want for them to completely navigate their own path.

因为如果他们没有自己去经历，就不会觉得那是自己完成的。

Because if they aren't doing that, they won't feel like they've done it.

他们也不会真正相信自己以及自己能提供什么。

And they won't truly believe in themselves and what they have to offer.

所以这才是最重要的。

So that's the most important thing.

我唯一给过或试图给过的建议就是：保持冷静，做你自己，别看评论。

The only advice I have given or try and give is just to stay calm, be yourself, and don't read reviews.

永远不要。

Never.

永远不要。

Never.

绝不。

Never.

绝对绝不。

Never ever.

你最不该做的事。

Worst thing you can do.

是啊。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我觉得反馈这个概念非常有趣，无论是好评还是差评，因为我认为两者都可能同样危险。

I mean, I find feedback such an interesting concept and that's whether it's good or bad, because I think both can be kind of equally as dangerous.

我可能有点夸大了那些庆祝性的东西。

And I might be over egging the sort of like the celebratory stuff.

但我觉得，如果你过于相信其中任何一方，那你基本上就完了。

But I think if you buy into either side too much, you're kinda screwed.

因为如果你相信那些正面评价，一旦它们消失，你就完全不知道自己是谁了。

Because if you believe the good stuff, then when it goes, you don't know who the hell you are.

嗯，这个

Well, the

问题是，如果你读了那些好评并相信了它们，你还是会发现一个负面评价。

thing is if you read the good stuff and you believe the good stuff, you're still gonna find one bad thing.

而且你

And you

只会记住那一个负面评价，因为我们的大脑就是这样运作的。

will only remember the one bad thing because that's how we're wired.

是的，我觉得反馈和一味附和的人都是需要警惕的。

Yeah, feedback and yes people are things to be wary of, I think.

没错。

Yeah.

我的意思是，你现在还会去关注这些吗？

I mean, do you sit in it all now?

因为很明显，这很棒，尤其是当你像对待《Goodbye June》这样投入了全部心血的项目时，你自然希望人们能喜欢它。

Because obviously it's amazing, especially when you've worked on a project like Goodbye June, when you're so ingrained into every element of it, want people to enjoy it.

你希望人们说，天哪，这触动了我，我哭了，或者我觉得它纯粹令人喜悦。

You want people to say, oh my God, that touched me, I wept, or I thought it was purely joyful.

但同样地，当你沉浸在这些反馈中时，你也会像你说的那样，对负面评价产生好奇。

But equally when you are sort of lapping up that feedback, you are then curious about, like you said, the downside.

你会看些什么吗？

Do you read anything?

你会听到关于你正在做的项目的任何评价吗？

Do you hear anything about your projects you're working on?

我早年就学会了不去在意别人的想法。

So I learnt early on in my career how to not care what people think.

因为如果你在意别人的想法，你的决策和生活就会基于可能的审视或批评而展开。

Because if you care what people think, then you make decisions and live your life based on potential scrutiny or criticism.

但我非常在意人们的感受。

But I do very much care how people feel.

所以，当人们在Waitrose的鸡蛋货架前跟我搭话，告诉我他们迫不及待想和女儿坐在一起，像每年一样在圣诞节观看这部影片——就像许多母女组合那样，这已成为一种固定传统时，我的心里就充满了温暖。

So, when people come up to me in the eggs aisle in Waitrose and they tell me that they can't wait to sit down with their daughter and watch the holiday at Christmas like they do every single year, like many mother and daughter couples, it's a running theme, It warms my heart completely.

所以，当人们过来告诉我，‘那个表演打动了我’，或者‘我真的很喜欢那部电影，它对我意义重大，让我想起了我的……’，这完全不同。

So, people coming up and saying, Oh, that performance moved me, or I really loved that film and it meant so much to me and reminded me of my That's different.

这是一件美好的事，因为我们创作作品只是为了观众。

That is a wonderful thing because we're only making the work for audiences.

这对我来说是最重要的部分。

That's the most important part for me.

所以，实际上，我已经开始思考，随着《再见六月》上映，作为导演我该如何应对评价呢？

So, actually, I have thought a little bit about how am I gonna cope with this now with Goodbye June coming out and reviews as a director?

因为我觉得我可能会有一种责任感和义务感，要让其他演员知道一切都好，大家放松，保持心态平稳，再次感受到让每个人都感到安全和被支持的愿望。

Because I think I might feel a sense of responsibility and duty for the other actors to just know that it's all okay, everyone chill, keeping everyone level, and that sense, again, of wanting everyone to feel safe and supported.

我可能需要稍微留意一下。

I might feel that I need to just keep a bit of an eye.

但我也不确定。

But I don't know.

也许我会沿用我自己的个人生存法则，什么都不看。

Maybe I will be able to apply my same personal survival strategy rule and not read anything.

这对我们这些电影背后的人很重要。

It matters to us as the people behind the film.

人们欣赏并被它打动，这对我们来说极其重要。

It matters to us enormously that people appreciate it and feel moved by it.

或许它还能引发讨论。

And perhaps that it might ignite conversation.

因为我认为，我们生活中最复杂的关系，往往存在于我们最爱的人之间。

Because I think that some of the most complicated relationships in our lives are with the ones we love the most.

而我们常常忘记去谈论这些。

And so often, we forget to talk about that.

与可能需要面对的家人进行这些 confrontational 的对话，确实要容易得多。

And it's so much easier not to have those confronting conversations with a family member that you may need to have.

逃避这一切要容易得多。

It's so much easier to just avoid it.

天啊。

Oh my God.

但从长远来看，这真的对吗？

But actually in the long run, is that right?

我认为这部电影确实深入探讨了这一点，并引发了这样的对话，这让我很感兴趣。

And I think the film really does dig in to that and ignite that conversation, which is interesting to me.

天啊，毫无疑问。

Oh my God, without a doubt.

我的意思是，总有一个特别动人的场景，你和妹妹坐在地板上，我不多剧透了，但你们在多年关系紧张、冲突不断之后，终于进行了一次真正必要的心灵沟通。

I mean, there's always that very moving scene where you're sat with your sister sister on the floor and you, I don't wanna give too much away, but you're having a real, very needed heart to heart after years of not getting on clashing heads.

或者说，根本不开口。

Well, not speaking.

或者说，根本不开口。

Well, not speaking.

你知道，这在许多家庭中都非常普遍，有些亲戚就是不愿意待在同一个房间里。

And you know, that is very commonplace again in many families, where there's relatives that will not be in the same room as each other.

你会说你把这一点应用到现实生活中了吗？

Would you say that you've applied that to real life?

因为这很难。

Because it is hard.

比如，当我想到要和我妈妈或爸爸进行真正坦诚的对话时，对我来说这比坐在这里和一个我并不太熟悉的人进行推心置腹的交谈要难得多。

Like, if I think about having really honest conversations with my mom or dad, that to me is way harder than probably sitting here with someone having a heart to heart that I

真的不认识。

don't really know.

是的，和父母的对话是我随着年龄增长真正意识到的事情，而且因为我很年轻，25岁就当了父母，我从更年轻的时候就开始意识到与父母好好沟通有多重要。

Yeah, conversations with parents are something that I actually, as I got older, and I think because I became a parent quite young when I was only 25, I think I had an awareness from a younger age of just how important it was to communicate properly with my parents.

我和父亲关系非常非常亲密。

I have a very, very close relationship with my father.

我们真的会分享一切。

And we do really share everything.

我们经常进行愉快的聊天。

And we have good old chats.

他特别擅长直话直说。

And he's absolutely brilliant at telling it how it is.

所以我非常非常感激拥有这一切。

So, I'm very, very grateful to have that.

我只是努力以有意识和正直的方式生活，以我希望别人对待我的方式去对待他人。

I just try and live my life with intention and integrity and to treat people the way I myself would hope to be treated in return.

生命太短暂，不该被消极和有毒的影响所拖累。

Life is really too short to be burdened with negativity and toxic influences.

我只是尽力在世界上做一个正派的人。

And I just do my best to walk through the world being a decent person.

这很重要。

It matters.

这在我生活的方方面面都非常重要，无论是对家人、朋友，还是对工作中的其他人。

It matters to me a great deal in every aspect, with family, with friends, with people I work with.

这对我来说非常重要。

It matters to me a lot.

你在意别人有多喜欢你吗？

Do you care how much you're liked?

因为我觉得这是完全不同的两回事。

Because I think that's a very different thing.

我喜欢你之前说的那句话，即不在乎别人怎么想，但在意别人怎么感受。

And I like what you said earlier, the distinction between not caring what people think, but caring what people feel.

我以前从未真正领悟过这一点。

I've never really landed on that before.

我认为这在对话中很有帮助，因为过去几年里，我真的很想克服那种需要被喜欢的需求。

And I think that helps in this conversation because I, in the last couple of years, wanted to really combat that need to be liked.

我觉得，因为我的工作就是做我自己。

And I think because, I mean, my job is being myself.

所以如果有人说不喜欢你，他们不喜欢的是你本人，而不是某个角色，甚至不是某种技能。

So if someone says they don't like you, it's you they don't like rather than it being a character or sometimes even a skill set.

过去这让我感到巨大的压力，但我现在正在摆脱它；取悦他人的倾向无处不在，它影响了我许多决定和我与世界互动的方式。

And I think that used to feel like a huge burden and I'm picking it, but the tendency to people please was omnipresent and it informed so many of my decisions and the way that I move through the world.

我现在才四十多岁，终于明白：我不想再这样下去了。

And I'm only now in my mid forties going, I don't wanna do that anymore.

我必须更少在意别人是否喜欢我。

I've got to care less if people like me.

如果我需要说一些显得直接或冒进的话，或者我需要干脆地说不，

And if I need to say something that seems a bit blunt or forward, or I need to say no, quite frankly,

你指的是哪种情况？

in what context do you mean like?

你是说你遇到的人，还是字面上的任何人？

So are you talking about people that you meet or are you talking Literally about anyone.

人们因为你

People you Because I

你想，你显然是全球知名，而我绝对不是。

think, you're obviously globally well known, I'm absolutely not.

但我认为，当人们对你产生某种假设并说，‘哦，是的，我真的很喜欢凯特·温斯莱特。’时，这种压力会更重。

But I think it is more heavily weighted when people assume things about you and go, oh yeah, I really like that Kate Winslet.

或者，‘我真的很喜欢费尔·科顿。’

Or I really like that Fern Cotton.

哦，我不喜欢她。

Oh, I don't like her.

你知道，人们会立刻决定你是不是一个讨人喜欢的角色。

You know, people instantly make a decision as to whether you're a likable character.

对我来说，这种压力大得不成比例。

That for me has been, it's been disproportionately heavy.

想想。

Think.

费恩，亲爱的。

Fern, darling.

给我一些建议。

Give me the advice.

来吧。

Let's go.

你无法控制或强求。不。

You cannot control or dictate No.

他人的观点和态度。

The opinions and attitudes of other people.

不。

No.

你所能做的就是过好自己的生活，做一个正直的人，以诚信的方式生活和言说。

All you can do is live your best life, be a decent person, and live and speak with integrity.

这样你就能安心入睡，知道今天你已经尽了最大努力。

And then you know that you can go to sleep at night knowing that you did your best today.

就是这样。

That's it.

你不可能让每个人都满意。

You can't please everybody.

总会有一些人不喜欢你的头发，不喜欢你的脸，不喜欢你的声音，不相信你说的话。

There will always be people who don't like your hair, don't like your face, don't like the sound of your voice, don't believe the things that you say.

对我来说，人们常常误以为我受过良好教育、教养良好、博览群书，可能还享有一些特权。

One thing for me that I know people assume is that I'm really well educated, well bred, well read, probably had a bit of privilege.

我曾经是个街头小混混。

I was a little street scrapper.

我的父母一无所有。

My parents had absolutely nothing.

但人们不会这样认为我，因为我说话得体。

But people don't think that of me because I speak well.

我完全理解为什么人们不会这样想。

And I absolutely understand why people wouldn't think that.

但我之所以说话这么好，是有原因的。

But there's a reason why I speak very well.

这是因为我的外祖母曾就读于意大利孔蒂剧院学校，那是所非常著名的戏剧学院。

And it's because my maternal grandmother went to Italia Conti, which is a very famous theater school.

她和诺埃尔·科沃德是同届学生。

She was in the same year as Noel Coward.

哇。

Wow.

所以她接受了如何说话的训练。

So she was taught how to speak.

她在夏洛特街的一家酒吧楼上长大。

She grew up above a pub on Charlotte Street.

她被教导要好好说话。

She was taught how to speak well.

所以当她生下六个孩子时，他们都模仿了母亲的说话方式。

So when she had her six children, they copied the mother tongue.

因此当我出生时，我们继承了母亲的说话方式，那就是好好说话。

So when I was born, we copied our mother's tongue, which was to speak well.

这让我很崩溃，因为我永远无法纠正人们对我的看法，但我对此无能为力。

And it drives me crazy that I would never be able to correct what people think, but I can't do anything about that.

是的，你无能为力。

No, you can't.

我对此真的什么都做不了。

I can't do anything about that at all.

你让自己疯了。

And you drive yourself mad.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

没关系。

It's okay.

让他们想他们想的吧。

Let them think what they're gonna think.

你不能活在试图改变别人看法中。

You can't live your life trying to change the opinions of other people.

这行不通。

It doesn't work.

你会让自己痛苦的。

You'll make yourself miserable.

你觉得你是什么时候明白这个道理的？

When do you think you landed on that?

因为很明显，如果你在年轻时就被推到聚光灯下，如果你想在好莱坞生存下来，你就必须快速学会这一点。

Because obviously I think being thrown into the spotlight at a young age, you are fast track to try and learn that one quickly if you want to survive Hollywood.

这听起来可能有点严厉，但事实确实如此。

And that might sound quite a severe way of saying it, but it's not.

你要么挺过去，要么就挺不过去。

Do, you survive it or you don't.

不，你说得完全对。

No, you're absolutely right.

在好莱坞生存，在一个可能非常残酷的行业里生存。

Surviving Hollywood, surviving an industry that can be cutthroat.

当然，我年轻的时候，这个行业非常残酷。

Certainly when I was younger was very cutthroat.

英国主流媒体众所周知，对我极其恶劣。

And the mainstream media in The UK, it's no secret, were absolutely horrific to me.

恶劣到他们所有人都应该感到羞愧，每一家小报都应该给我一封书面道歉信，但他们都没有这么做。

Horrendous in a way that they should all be ashamed of, and every single tabloid newspaper should have sent me a written apology, which they haven't done.

这甚至都是可耻的。

Even that is disgraceful.

只要礼貌一点就行了。

It's just like, be courteous.

坦诚地承认：我们不该这样对你。

Just hold your hand up and say, We shouldn't have done that to you.

你当时还是个女孩。

You were a young girl.

我因为外貌被审视，因为他们觉得我胖了。

And I was scrutinized for how I looked because they decided I was fat.

你觉得这对一个人的自尊心会造成什么影响？

Well, what do you think that does to a person's self esteem?

你觉得这对一个当时可能正濒临严重饮食失调的年轻人会造成什么影响？

What do you think that does to someone who probably was teetering on the verge of a horrible eating disorder at that age?

因为在80年代末、90年代初，我认识的每一个年轻女演员都在与身体形象问题作斗争，因为媒体就是这样做的。

Because I don't know any young actress at that time in the early '90s, late '80s, early '90s, who wasn't battling with some form of issue around their physical selves, because that was simply what the press did.

经过大量的痛苦、受伤和想要躲起来的感觉之后，我渐渐意识到，我无法改变任何事。

And I think I realized, after a lot of upset and hurt and a feeling of wanting to just hide, actually, I think, a while, I realized that I couldn't change any of it.

我只能希望这些事最终能悄然消失。

I could just hope that it was going to quietly go away eventually.

我很幸运，因为在我还很小的时候，我就有了米娅，正如我所说，她成了我的整个世界。

And I was very lucky because I had Mia, as I said, when I was so young, and that became my world.

所以，所有那些糟心事，都烟消云散了。

And so, all that other shit, it just evaporated.

谢天谢地。

Thank God.

现在，这一点也成为我养育所有孩子的准则。

And that's one thing now that I have been able to carry into my parenting of all of my children.

我只是告诉他们要做自己。

I just tell them to be themselves.

告诉他们，他们应该始终感到自信，并善待自己。

Tell them that they should only ever feel great and be kind to themselves.

因为有时候，作为母亲，他们必须听到我们说：你很美。

Because sometimes they have to hear from us as mothers, You are beautiful.

你很棒。

You are wonderful.

现在出去吧，做你自己。

Now get out there and be yourself.

因为你说呢，弗恩？

Because guess what, Vern?

如果我们今天不告诉他们这些，他们可能再也听不到别人说了。

If we aren't telling them these days those things, they might not hear it from anywhere else.

因为这个世界太苛刻了。

Because the world is so critical.

由于社交媒体，由于点赞，由于想要迎合某种莫名其妙的完美标准。

And because of social media, and because of likes, and because of wanting to conform to some strange idea of perfection that God knows where it comes from.

但总的来说，年轻人正在为他们的心理健康而痛苦。

But young people on the whole are suffering with their mental health.

他们追求某种理想，只是因为想对自己是谁感到满意。

They are chasing some ideal just because they want to feel good in who they are.

所以，这种奇怪而略显扭曲的被接纳感、被重视感。

So, this sort of strange, slightly warped perception of being included, counting for something.

我认为，如今年轻人的基本自尊心正受到严重侵蚀。

A basic level of self esteem is being really tampered with, I think, amongst young people today.

我觉得这非常令人难过，也极其令人担忧。

And I find it really sad and really very worrying.

因此，看起来像个普通人，拥有会动的表情，展现出我五十岁应有的所有皱纹，这至关重要，因为我想以身作则。

And that's why looking like a normal person, having a face that moves, having all of the wrinkles that my fifty years hopefully show, that matters a great deal because, again, I want to lead by example.

我希望年轻女性看到我的身体、我的脸时，会说：‘哦，那是个普通人。’

I want for young women to look at my body, my face, and go, Oh, that's a normal one.

也许真正做普通人的人并不多，但这很重要，也很有意义。

There might not be that many of us being the normal ones, but it's important and it matters.

我知道，在我所从事的行业中，我最敬佩的那些女性，到了七十岁、七十五岁、八十岁，依然完全正常、美丽动人。

And I know that the women in my industry who I admire the most of all, they're completely normal, gorgeous, beautiful women at the age of 70, 75, 80.

有这样的人作为榜样，真是令人欣慰。

And it's reassuring that we have those people to look up to.

我们都希望有值得仰望的人。

We all want someone to look up to.

我认为，如果我们能在当今世界做个善良的女性，善待自己和他人，这很重要。

And I think if we can be decent women in today's world and be kind to ourselves and to others, I think it's important.

善待自己非常重要。

Being kind to yourself is so huge.

我最好的朋友之一总是对我说，每当我遇到危机或状态不好时，她都会说：‘我听着呢，我都听懂了，我明白。’

One of my best mates always says to me, if I'm, she's a person I'll call in a crisis or if I'm not dealing with something well, and she'll always say, okay, I'm listening to everything you're saying and I hear it and I get it.

但千万别把枪口对准自己。

Just don't turn the gun on yourself.

每当我遇到困难时，这句话都会一直提醒我，因为我过去确实更容易陷入自我否定，觉得自己是个糟糕的人，很糟糕。

And that always stays with me if I'm having a tough time, because I definitely probably more so used to have the propensity to go, oh yeah, I'm a shitty person, I'm awful.

我会不断重复别人对我说过的话，尤其是年轻时，接触到关于我的媒体报道时。

And I will just regurgitate anything that I've heard about myself, especially when I was younger and exposed to press stories about me or whatever.

你年轻的时候，有没有过缺乏这种自我同情的时候？

Were there times where you didn't have that level of self compassion, your younger self?

有，我觉得当我十几岁的时候，比如14、15、16岁，那时候我比较胖，甚至感到很不自在，这种感觉也说不通。

Yes, I think when I was a teenager, and I'm talking like when I was 14, 15, 16, because I was quite chubby then, like actually uncomfortable in a way that also didn't really add up.

从荷尔蒙的角度来看，可能有些内在变化在发生。

Think hormonally, there's probably stuff stuff going on.

是的，我确实有过一些日子，照镜子时心想：好吧，今天我不再照镜子了。

Yeah, I definitely had days when I'd look in the mirror and think, Okay, I'm not going to look in the mirror again today.

或者我会用一块布把有镜子的门盖住。

Or I'd put a sheet over the door, the door with the mirror on it.

确实有过类似的情况。

Definitely things like that.

我从不觉得自己羞耻，但确实很在意别人的看法。

I don't think I ever felt ashamed of myself, but definitely self conscious.

我小时候在小学时，因为身材有点敦实而被同学嘲笑。

And I was teased as a as a younger child at primary school for being a bit on the stocky side.

孩子对其他孩子可能会很残忍。

Children can be cruel to other children.

这真的让我很难受。

And that kills me actually.

这太可怕了，因为学校教室的环境真的能决定一个孩子在校生活的成败。

It's terrible because an environment in a school classroom can really make or break a child's life in school.

学校应该是让你感到被照顾、被支持和被教育的地方。

And school should be somewhere where you feel looked after, supported, and educated.

它也应该是你交朋友、找到愿意支持你的人的地方。

And it should be a place where you make friends and people who are going to have your back.

但我实际上并没有这样的经历。

And I didn't have that, actually.

我知道这听起来有点像诉苦，但我真的没有这样的经历。

I know it sounds like a bit of a sob story, but I didn't really have that.

所以当我回望童年，思考：我那些从童年、从那些日子以来的朋友都有谁呢？

So when I look back on my childhood and I sort of think, Who are the friends I've got from childhood, from those days?

实际上，我有一群很棒的朋友，是在我青少年后期认识的。

Actually, I've got a nice handful of really great friends who I met much later in my teenage years.

其实，中学时也有几个朋友，大概两个吧。

A few people from secondary school, actually, like two.

当我开始工作，17岁出演电影、踏入社会后，我才真正结交了一些挚友，他们至今仍是我的重要伙伴。

And then from when I started working, when I went out into the world and I was cast in film when I was 17 years old, I started to really make great friends who became the keepers and are still part of my life today.

是的，这太重要了。

Yeah, so important.

没错。

Yeah.

你有没有做过这样的事：回到过去，心里对那个14岁的自己说，我要拥抱你，给你当时没能感受到的全部爱意？

Have you ever done that thing where you kind of go back and you mentally say, I'm gonna embrace that little 14 year old me and give her all the love that she didn't necessarily feel she got then.

我确实从家人那里得到了大量的爱。

I certainly got a huge amount of love from my family.

这一点我必须说出来。

That's one thing I will say.

尽管我们家境贫寒，我父母总是特别擅长说：‘瞧，太阳出来了。’

And my mom and dad, in spite of how little we had, were always absolutely brilliant at saying, Oh, the sun's out.

我们去兜风吧。

Let's go for a drive.

跳进河里或者爬树吧。

Let's jump in a river or climb a tree.

我父母非常善于鼓励我们接触外部世界，我认为这非常重要，尤其是在今天。

My parents were extraordinary at encouraging us to be in the outside world, which I think is so important, especially today.

所以，我感受到了来自家人的爱。

So, I felt the love from my family.

但没错，如果我要回到过去，是的，我确实——说来有趣，在我40岁前一晚，也就是十年前，我做了一个梦，梦见自己走进一间教室，看到了年幼的自己。

But yeah, if I was to go back, yeah, I definitely It's interesting actually, before I turned 40, the night before I turned 40, ten years ago, I actually had a dream where I walked into a classroom and saw my younger self.

哇哦。

Woah.

是啊。

Yeah.

这真的非常特别。

It was really extraordinary.

你

You're

可能会

probably gonna

收到很多整体疗法从业者发来的消息，解释这到底意味着什么。

get loads of messages from holistic practitioners about what that actually means.

是的，因为我在挑选。

Yeah, because I'm picking.

但我真的做到了。

But I really did.

我走进了教室，那时我已经是个成年人了。

Walked into a I classroom as was a grownup.

我显得从容镇定。

I was poised.

优雅。

Graceful.

我只是去观察这些孩子，坐在那里。

And I was just going to see all these children and I was sat there.

这太不可思议了。

And it was incredible.

这太感人了。

That's so moving.

是的，这非常感人。

Yeah, it was very moving.

我去和我的童年自我坐在一起。

And I went and sat with my younger self.

天啊，我现在可不能情绪失控。

Oh God, I mustn't get emotional now.

因为那是一个如此奇妙的梦。

Because it was such an amazing dream.

但我对年轻的自己说：没关系，放慢脚步。

But I said to my younger self, It's okay, slow down.

没关系。

It's okay.

我不明白我为什么在哭。

I don't know why I'm crying.

不，我只是懂了。

No, it's just that I get it.

这太奇怪了。

It was bizarre.

我懂了。

I get it.

而且对我来说非常清晰。

And very clear to me.

我通常不记得梦境，甚至不把它们写下来。

And I don't particularly remember dreams or even write them down.

我从没记录过梦境，但那个梦非常生动。

I've never written down a dream, but it was so vivid.

我记得当时想，哦，也许我可以放慢脚步。

And I do remember thinking, Oh yeah, maybe I can slow down.

也许我可以稍微放松一下，享受我所完成的事情，并为这些成就感到自豪。

Maybe I can just chill for a bit and enjoy the things that I've done and feel good about those achievements.

要停下来对自己说‘我做得很好’，真的很难。

It's quite hard to take a moment and go, Oh, I did well.

干得漂亮，我。

Well done me.

你现在还觉得这样吗？

Do you still find that now?

因为我在这方面简直愧疚至极。

Because I am beyond guilty of that.

一想到居然会有整整一周我不忙得焦头烂额地应付十份不同的工作，我就觉得可怕。

I find it terrifying to think that there's even a week where I'm not incredibly busy trying to juggle 10 different jobs.

我知道我所有这些情绪的根源，比如，哦，我知道我又在害怕了，担心一切都会崩塌，我会失去工作，一切都会消失。

And I kind of know the root of all of my things like, oh yeah, I know I'm feeling that fear again, that everything's all gonna go, everything's gonna, and I won't a have job and it's all gonna disappear.

这么多年过去了，我仍然有这种驱动力。

I still have a bit of that going on all these years later, which still have that drive.

哦，是的，我仍然有所有这些感受。

Oh yeah, I still have all of that.

部分原因是我一直想做这份工作。

And partly because I always want to be doing this job.

我从不希望人们不再邀请我参加派对。

I never want people to not keep inviting me back to the party.

因为我真的很喜欢参加派对。

Because I really like being at the party.

这太有趣了。

It's great fun.

不，我 definitely 认为，作为女性，在这个国家，我们可能并不擅长互相说：天啊，干得太棒了，我对你所做的事感到非常钦佩和自豪。

No, I definitely think as women and in this country, I don't know that we're necessarily very good at telling each other, my God, well done, I was so impressed and proud of you for doing that.

我觉得我们在这方面并不擅长。

I don't think we're very good at that.

而且我认为我们也不太擅长公开地说：‘我为自己做的那件事感到非常非常自豪，因为我当时面临巨大挑战，但我最终成功了。’

And I also don't think we're very good at saying openly, I was really, really proud of myself for that thing I did because I was up against it, but I bloody pulled it off.

这太不英国了。

Very un British.

太不英国了，但我确实会这么做。

Very un British, but I do that.

尤其是过去十年里，我一直有意识地这样做。

In the last ten years in particular, I've been very consciously doing that.

我觉得这是因为我想确保我的孩子们能听到并效仿这种做法，知道说‘我为自己处理那个情况的方式、或与那个人的交谈方式、或我完成的工作感到自豪’是完全可以的。

And I think it's because I want to make sure that my children hear that and emulate that and know that it's okay to say, I was proud of myself with how I handled that situation or how I spoke to that person or the job that I did.

我认为以这种方式展现一些自我关爱、感恩和自我骄傲是很重要的。

I think it's important to show a bit of self love and gratitude in that way and a bit of self pride.

是的，随后也要好好休息，安心地接受它。

Yeah, and subsequently rest and feel all right about it.

是啊，我确实觉得很难做到这一点。

Yeah, well that I do find hard to do.

休息并对自己感到安心。

The resting and feeling all right about it.

我总是想，我为什么坐着不动？

I always think, why am I sitting down?

我得再站起来。

I need to stand up again.

我也是。

Same.

我知道。

I know.

太糟糕了。

So bad.

是啊，太糟了。

Yeah, it's terrible.

就连洗澡时，我都会想，哎呀，我在这儿待得太久了。

Even having a bath, I'm like, oh, I've been in here a little bit too long.

得赶紧出去做点什么，我真的得动起来。

Need to get out and do something to I'm really, get covered

你还会洗澡？你有时间洗澡？

you have baths, you have time for baths?

非常少见。

Very rarely.

大概每两周一次吧，那时我会想，

When talking like once every two weeks, I'm like,

我坐不住，根本没法坐着。

I I'm sitting can't sit there.

做什么都花太多时间了。

It all takes too long things to do.

甚至只是打开水龙头都嫌麻烦。

Or even running it.

哦，太花时间了。

Oh, takes too long.

真的像，

Really like,

哦，得了吧。

oh, come on.

哦，现在水变凉了。

Oh, now the water's gone cold.

现在水凉了。

Now it's gone cold.

内德，水又凉了。

Ned, the water's gone cold again.

所以我知道这个问题的答案不会在浴缸里。

So I know the answer to this question is not going to be in the bath.

你的快乐之地在哪里？

Where is your happy place?

不，不在浴缸里。

No, it's not in the bath.

冰浴，那是另一回事。

An ice bath, different matter.

哦，是

Oh, are

你喜欢冰浴吗？

you into the ice bathing?

哦，是啊，天啊，是的。

Oh yeah, God, yeah.

这太

It's so

棒了。

fantastic.

这是每天都会做的吗？

Is that a daily thing?

不，这并不是每天都会做的，因为我并不总能找到办法每天做到。

No, it's not really daily just because I can't always figure out a way to pull it off daily.

当然，冷水，非常冷的水，越冷越好。

Certainly cold water, very cold water, the colder the better.

它会让你感觉棒极了。

It makes you feel fantastic.

而且这是不可能后悔的，绝对不可能后悔。

And it's impossible, it's impossible to regret it.

你永远不会后悔进入冷水，哪怕只有三十秒。

You can never regret getting in the cold water, even for thirty seconds.

我不确定我会说那是我的快乐之地。

I'm not sure I would say that that's my happy place.

我的真正快乐之地有几个，真的。

My real happy place is There's a couple of different ones, really.

但老实说，只要是我、内德和孩子们在一起，我们都在同一个空间里，那就是让我感到无比快乐的地方。

But quite honestly, anywhere where it's me, Ned, and the kids, and it's just us, and we're all in the same space, that is somewhere I do feel incredibly happy.

另一个让我感到非常非常快乐的地方，是漫步在雪地森林中。

Another place that I feel very, very happy is walking through like a snowy forest.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

那种宁静、沉默与美景，几乎让我对这个时代之前的时代重燃希望。

There's something about the stillness and the silence and the beauty of it that almost gives me hope in the time before this time.

我所说的并非石器时代、穴居人之类的年代，完全不是那个意思，而是指数字时代之前，生活更简单、节奏更宁静的时光。

And what I mean by that is not Neanderthal times and cavemen and etcetera, not that at all, but just the time before this digital age, when things were simpler and life was quieter.

我确实有一部iPhone。

And I do have an iPhone.

我仍然在挣扎，为什么我会拥有它。

I still grapple with the fact that I have one.

我非常认真地考虑在新的一年里把它扔掉。

I'm talking very seriously about getting rid of it in the new year.

但即使是我，虽然我没有社交媒体，也发现自己会在新闻页面上刷得太久。

But even I, and I don't have social media, I do find myself just scrolling too long on that news page.

我为什么在玩Wordscapes？

Why am I playing Wordscapes?

我为什么为什么？

Why am I Why?

我不希望盯着这些东西。

I don't want to be staring at this stuff.

我根本不想这样。

I don't want it at all.

所以，在大自然的雪地中保持宁静，这种感觉很特别。

And so there's something about the stillness of being in snow in nature in that way.

不是独自散步，总是和别人一起。

Not walking alone, always with somebody else.

我喜欢交谈。

I love conversation.

还有和家人、孩子们一起的长时间散步，那些对话一直都非常棒。

And also long walks with my family, with my kids, those conversations have always been fantastic.

我们生活中非常重要的一部分，就是共同分享大量的创意和故事点子。

And a really big part of our lives is where we share a lot of creativity and story ideas.

乔在我们一起长时间散步时，会分享很多《再见六月》的创意。

Joe would share a lot of his ideas for Goodbye June on long walks together.

我的孩子们在长时间散步时，也会考我一些台词。

And my kids have tested me on lines on long walks.

现在，同样的事情也发生在他们身上。

And now the same thing happens with them.

因此，外出散步对我来说非常特别，让我感到快乐。

And so, there's something about being outside walking that is very special to me and makes me happy.

不管天气如何，我更喜欢寒冷的天气。

And it doesn't matter what the weather's doing, but preferably cold.

我也是。

Same.

我喜欢悠闲地散步。

I love a good old ramble.

哦，这简直是天堂。

Oh, it's heavens.

没有什么比这更好的了。

There's nothing better.

再好不过了。

Nothing better.

嗯，今天能和你交谈我真是太高兴了，而且《Goodbye June》即将发布，真是令人兴奋。

Well, look, I'm so thrilled to have spoken to you today and how exciting that Goodbye June is gonna be released

面世了。

into the world

让每个人都知道。

for know everybody to

乔和我都觉得，天哪，人们就要看到它了。

Joe and I are like, oh my God, people are gonna see it.

太令人兴奋了。

It's so exciting.

这是一种非常激动人心又奇特的感觉。

It's a very exciting and bizarre feeling.

我确实为它感到自豪。

And I do feel proud of it.

我为我们自己感到骄傲。

And I feel proud of ourselves.

作为一名女性，我为自己完成了这件事而感到自豪。

I feel proud as a woman to have done this.

这感觉像是我人生新篇章的开端，让我想说：没错，来吧，我的五十岁，宝贝。

It sort of feels like it marks the beginning of maybe a new chapter in my life and makes me feel like, yeah, woohoo, bring on my fifties, baby.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

It's yeah.

这感觉令人兴奋。

It it feels exciting.

没错。

Too right.

你看。

Well, look.

祝你一切顺利。

Good luck with all of it.

非常感谢你今天的一切。

And thank you so much for today.

天哪。

Oh, my god.

凯特拥有你刚刚听到的那种非凡品质。

Kate's got that amazing quality as you've just heard there.

让你相信你现在已经和她成了最好的朋友？

To make you believe that you might now be best friends with her?

我是吗？

Like, am I?

这一切都是我脑子里想出来的吗？

Is that all in my head?

我觉得这确实是我脑子里想出来的。

I think it is in my head.

但她整个过程中都表现得如此理智、亲切。

But she was just so brilliantly grounded and lovely throughout.

我喜欢那个家伙随意地岔开话题，谈到这么多不同的方向。

And I like that that chap just meandered off into all these different avenues.

而且，显然，他是个非凡的故事讲述者。

And, obviously, exceptional storyteller.

能更多地了解凯特和她的生活，真是非常好，她的人生多么非凡啊。

So it's so good getting to know a bit more about Kate and her life, what an extraordinary life she's had.

《再见六月》将于12月12日在影院上映，并于12月24日在Netflix上线。

Goodbye June is in cinemas from the December 12 and will be on Netflix on the December 24.

这真是一个完美的圣诞前夜时刻。

That is a perfect Christmas Eve moment.