学院内部：Point72如何塑造未来投资者

大家好，欢迎收听新一期的《对冲基金圆桌会》，我是主持人杰米·麦克唐纳。

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Hedge Fund Huddle with me, Jamie McDonald.

在开始之前，我想对听众朋友们持续增长的支持表示衷心感谢。

Now before we get started, I wanted to say thank you listeners for your growing and continued support.

我很高兴地宣布，我们再次斩获大奖——2025年格拉梅西研究所金融内容市场奖。

I'm thrilled to announce that we won yet another award, a Gramercy Institute 2025 Financial Content Market Award.

所以现在我们可以正式宣称自己是多奖项得主了。

So I think we can now officially say that we are multi award winning.

如果制作人正在收听的话，或许这能给我们开绿灯卖些周边商品，不过这个还需要从长计议。

And, if the producers are listening, maybe that gives us the green light to start selling some merch, but we'll we'll look into that.

好了

Okay.

谦虚的炫耀到此为止。

Enough humble bragging.

今天我们非常荣幸邀请到Point72发展部负责人兼Point72学院院长杰米·古德弗兰德，这正是我们今天要讨论的主题。

Today, we are very lucky to have on the show Jamie Goodfriend, who is head of development at Point72 and head of the Point72 Academy, which is what we're gonna be talking about today.

那么，杰米，欢迎来到节目。

So, Jamie, welcome to the show.

谢谢邀请。

Thanks for having me.

非常感谢，也祝贺你获得多个奖项。

Appreciate it, and congratulations on your multiple awards.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

是啊。

Yeah.

我们尽量抽空庆祝这些难得的奖项。

We we try to squeeze in the the odd award celebration when we can.

杰米，我想一开始就区分一下你们的不同项目，我知道你们有暑期实习项目。

So, Jamie, right off the bat, I wanted to just make a distinction about the different programs that you have because I know that you have the summer internship program.

有针对应届毕业生的完整项目，也有面向更有经验的专业人士的项目。

There is a full program for upcoming graduates, and there's one for more experienced professionals.

所以我在想，能否请你详细说明一下这些项目之间的区别，以及哪些项目在英国提供，哪些在美国提供？

So I thought maybe could you just walk us through the distinction of the difference between those programs, and I think which ones are offered in The UK and which in The US?

当然可以。

Sure.

首先，再次感谢今天邀请我，能来到这里既是荣幸也是快乐。

Well, first, again, thanks for having me today, and it's a pleasure to be here and an honor to be here.

我们确实提供多种入职机会，具体取决于一个人所处的职业阶段，甚至包括他们在大学期间的学业阶段。

We do have multiple intake opportunities depending on really where a person is in their career and in their college career even.

对于那些仍在学校就读并探索毕业后可能感兴趣机会的学生，我们提供在倒数第二学年暑假期间的实习项目。

So for those who are still in school and exploring what opportunities they might have interest in after graduation, we offer an internship program during really the penultimate year, summer.

这样他们就有机会体验我们工作的精简版，可以了解真实的工作状态——在紧凑的暑期时间内与团队合作，从而在毕业前能做出最佳决策，判断这是否是他们想要全职探索的职业道路。

So they have a chance to have sort of a miniature version of our experience, can see what it's like to really have life on the desk for us working with a team in a shortened, condensed time frame over the summer so that they can make the best decisions they can before they graduate and whether or not this is a career that they want to explore full time.

我经常思考这个问题，因为现在雇主向学生提供选择的时间越来越早，从我十五年前开始从事这个领域工作时就是如此。

I always kind of think about this because the choices employers come to students now earlier and earlier, even since I started in this part of my career, gosh, now more than fifteen years ago.

因此我们认为，提供机会让人们深入了解在我们公司担任分析师的真实工作状态很有意义——通过教育帮助他们在信息越来越早涌入大学生涯时做出最佳决策。

And so we think it makes sense to offer people a chance to kind of dive in to see what it's really like to be an analyst at our firm, to educate people, to make the best decisions possible since all this information is coming earlier and earlier to them in their college careers.

但我们并不止步于此。

But we don't stop there.

例如，如果你是刚毕业的大学生，我们为应届毕业生提供全职机会。

So for example, if you are a graduate just fresh out of college, we offer opportunities full time for those who just graduated college.

但即使你已走上不同职业道路——可能是金融领域，也可能是其他行业——我们也提供作为经验丰富的学院招聘加入的机会。

But even if you've started down a different path and have been in a different career, and it could be in finance or it could be outside of finance, We offer the opportunity to come in as an experienced academy hire.

换句话说，无论你是否有相关工作经验（重要的是，即便不相关），我们仍能帮助你在毕业后转向投资者职业。

In other words, you've had some relevant work experience, or importantly, not relevant work experience, but we can still pivot your career towards being an investor upon graduation.

因此我们在英国及其他地区都提供这三种机会。

And so we do offer all three of these opportunities in The UK and beyond.

我们很高兴能收到处于任何职业阶段人士的申请。

So we're excited to have applications from people no matter where they are in their career journey.

在深入讨论前，我想先多了解一些你的背景。

So I wanted to, before we dive in, just get a little bit more of a background about yourself.

你说你在这个领域已经工作很长时间了。

You said you've been in this world for a long time.

我想你本人就是分析师，还当过大学讲师。

I think you're an analyst yourself, you've been a university lecturer.

能简单介绍一下你的背景吗？

Can you just give us a quick background about yourself?

好的，没问题。

Yeah, sure.

我最初从事银行业，可能和你们的一些听众经历相似。

So I started in banking, potentially as some of your listeners may have as well.

我大学刚毕业就从事并购工作。

I did mergers and acquisitions fresh out of college.

我不是商科专业出身，所以为了胜任分析师这个角色，我经历了陡峭的学习曲线。

I was not a business major, so for me there was a big learning curve getting up to speed to learn how to do that analyst role.

之后我经历了初级分析师通常要度过的那段时期。

And I went from there to sort of the typical period of time when people are junior analysts.

后来我转到了卖方。

I went from there to the sell side.

那时候，真的很久以前，人们通常不会直接从银行业转到卖方。

Back then, way back then, it was not typical that people would go directly to the sell side from banking.

有时候你得先回去读个MBA或硕士学位。

Sometimes you had to go back and get your MBA or your master's first.

但对我来说，我成功在银行工作后直接获得了一家公司的卖方研究职位。

But for me, I was able to secure a position at a firm to do sell side research directly after banking.

然后我去了研究生院，之后转向买方。

And then I went to graduate school to then pivot to the buy side.

于是我去了买方，在几家竞争对手那里工作过。

And so I went to the buy side, worked at a couple of our competitors.

但归根结底，我一直想成为一名教师，这是我的人生使命。

But ultimately I've always wanted to be a teacher, and my calling in life.

说实话，我花了十年时间才真正面对这个事实，如果要我给建议的话，就是没必要等十年才行动。

And it took me ten years, to be honest with myself about that, and I think that's if I could give advice to people, don't wait ten years if you don't have to.

但从另一方面来说，我学到了很多，这样我才能回馈教学。

But on the other hand, I learned a lot so that I could then teach something back.

于是十年后，我成为了几所大学的教授，并在这些大学建立了项目，帮助那些不一定能轻易接触到华尔街的人进入华尔街。

So ten years later, became a university professor at a couple of universities, built programs at those universities to help bring people who didn't necessarily have easy access to U.

S.

S.

华尔街。

Wall Street to Wall Street.

我非常热爱这份事业。

And I loved doing that.

后来我有幸在这个公司获得了建立类似项目的机会。

And then I was given the opportunity to build that at this firm.

于是在2015年，我全职加入Point72，创办了Point72学院。

And so I joined Point72 full time in 2015 to launch the Point72 Academy.

那么我们来聊聊2015年创办学院的事吧。

So let's talk about the building of the the academy back in 2015.

我时不时喜欢用体育来打比方，先提前为此道个歉。

I like to use sports analogies every now and again, so apologies in advance for that.

但我在英国算是90年代的孩子，最著名的就是曼联队那个YTS青训计划。

But I'm kind of a kid of the nineties in The UK, and most notably, was Manchester United who had this YTS scheme.

我认为他们真正意识到的是：从其他俱乐部购买球星非常昂贵，不如在发现年轻潜力时自己培养。

And I think really what came to them was it's very expensive to buy stars from other clubs, and what's better is to bring them up when you see young potential.

那么最初的真正想法是什么？

So what was the real initial idea?

是更像'我们看到这么多年轻潜力，想更早吸纳人才'，还是'从其他公司聘请投资组合经理太贵了，不如自己培养'？

Was it more sort of we see so much young potential, we want to bring people on board earlier, or hiring portfolio managers from other firms is very expensive, why don't we just of grow our own?

请解释一下背后的思考逻辑。

Explain a little bit about the thinking behind it.

我认为归根结底，如今回顾起来，这并不是非此即彼的选择。

I think ultimately, when you look back today, it's not an eitheror situation.

我们得以兼顾两者——既自主培养人才，也横向引进人才。

We get to do both because We of what we've both grow our talent and we hire talent laterally.

这源于行业中存在激烈的人才争夺战。

It comes from the fact that there's this big war on talent in the industry.

对冲基金的资产就是人才。

Hedge funds are assets and people.

我们很幸运没有资产问题，但行业内的确面临人才短缺。

We are blessed with a situation where we don't have an asset issue, but the world in our space has a talent problem.

因此，在吸引资深人才的同时还能开发内部培养渠道，我认为是我们的优势所在。

And so being able to tap into an organic pipeline while also being attracted to experienced hires, I think, gives us an advantage.

正如你提到的，我们的学院计划已实施多年。

And we've been at this now, the the academy program, as you mentioned.

确实，这个项目已经持续很长时间了。

Know, we've been at it a while.

今年正好是第十年，我对此感到无比兴奋，也很荣幸能全程参与其中。

It's been ten years this year, which I'm super excited about and feel really lucky to be a part of the whole time.

我们既受益于这些经验和成果，但也不必完全依赖于此——就像你说的那样。

And so we benefit from the experience and the track record, but we don't have to solely rely on it, like you said.

所以我们尝试对两种方式都保持开放态度。

And so we try to be opportunistic about both approaches.

当你雇佣有经验的人时，你是在为过去的业绩买单。

When you hire an experienced person, you pay for past performance.

但这并不一定预示他们未来的表现。

But it's not necessarily an indication of what they're going to do in the future.

而对于内部培养的人才，我们了解他们的为人与能力，可以更明智地决定如何发挥这些人才对公司最有利。

And so with homegrown talent, we get to know who they are, what they're capable of, and we can make more informed decisions about what's best for the firm with that talent.

我一直认为史蒂夫是个求知若渴、永不停歇的人，他从不满足于已有成就。

I always think Steve's like an intellectually curious and restless person, and he never rests on his laurels.

这种理念渗透在我们的企业文化中——如果你不努力培养下一位杰出人才，你就落后了。

So I think that mentality flows through our entire culture, and so if you're not trying to develop your next great talent, you're falling behind.

这大概就是我们持续投资这个项目的根本动力。

And that's probably what really drove the investment that we've made in this program.

听众朋友们，，我在听你们的学院播客时——必须说这期内容非常值得一听，因为史蒂夫本人接受了采访，当他说'我喜欢攀登顶峰'那段特别打动我。

I was listening to your Academy podcast, I should say to listeners, that it's really a good listen because Steve gets interviewed himself, and a there's a moment where he says, you know, I like to climb to the top of the mountain.

但当我真正登顶后，却发现那里空无一物。

And when I get there, I realize there's nothing there.

我在寻找下一座高山。

I'm looking for the next mountain.

我觉得这很好地揭示了他的思维方式。

And I think that was a good a good insight into to how he thinks.

你知道吗？

You know?

他总是在寻找下一个大目标，祝贺你们学院成立。

He's always looking for the next big thing, and congratulations on the academy.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我想问一个价值百万的问题，因为会有听众想知道：我的学位或所学专业对进入这个学院重要吗？

So I wanted to ask a kind of the million dollar question because there'll be people listening who think, well, does my degree or what I'm studying matter to try and get into the academy?

比如我喜欢金融，但我现在学的是其他领域的专业。

Like, I like finance, but I'm doing something in in a different area.

那么杰米，你在寻找什么样的人才？

So Jamie, to you, what do you look for?

你在寻找哪些特质？

What are the qualities do you look for?

商科专业有帮助吗？

Does a business major help?

还是说没有帮助？

Does it not help?

能给我们一些见解吗？

Can you give us a little insight?

是的。

Yeah.

我们招聘的人中约有一半来自商科背景。

About half the people we hire come from business backgrounds.

我认为听众需要明白，我们并不——我不关注你持有哪种学位。

I think it's really important for listeners to know that we are not I don't focus on the type of degree that you have.

我更看重那些我称之为'不可教授的特质'的东西。

I care far more about what I call the unteachable qualities.

你的批判性思维能力、职业道德以及道德行为。

Your critical thinking skills, your work ethic, ethical behavior.

你有商业头脑吗？

Are you commercial?

这些特质可以应用于任何专业。

And these things can be applied to any degree.

我喜欢雇佣历史专业、计算机科学专业、音乐专业、心理学和神经科学的学生。

I love hiring history majors, computer science majors, music majors, psychology, neuro science.

我自己也不是商科出身，所以我认为这实际上帮助我理解了为什么以及如何能让那些完全没有金融经验的人在我们公司成为出色的投资者。

I myself was not a business major, so I think that really helped me actually understand why it was possible and how it would be possible to bridge people who really have no experience whatsoever in finance to become great investors at our firm.

但我确实认为对市场的热情很重要。

I do think that passion for the markets, though, is important.

因为这种热情会驱使人主动学习，并为自己搭建通往成功的桥梁。

Because with that comes a drive and determination to learn and make that bridge happen for yourself.

是的。

Yeah.

对于在听的各位，你们可能知道我自己曾在Point72工作过，那确实是个非常棒的工作场所。

For those listening, you probably would know that I I worked at Point72 my myself, and it was it was a fantastic place to work.

但我确实看到那些成功的人，他们真的热爱自己所做的事情。

And I but I really did see the people who succeeded just, you know, really loved what they did.

我认为这显然适用于任何职业，但对市场的真正热情、对商业的迷恋以及对优秀公司运作原理的好奇，确实是观察人们在那里取得成功的关键因素。

And I think just I mean, obviously, that goes for any profession, but a real passion for markets and fascination with business and what makes good companies work was was really integral to to to watching people succeed there.

那么关于招聘流程和你吸引人才的问题。

So a question about the process and about you attracting talent.

当年我在大学时，英国有个叫做'牛奶轮'的传统，那些大公司——比如瑞银、高盛这些主要是卖方机构——会到牛津剑桥这样的大学巡回寻找新人。

Back in the day when I was at university, we had this thing called the milk round in England where, you know, the big companies, you know, the UBS's, Goldman Sachs, mainly sell side firms would come around to the universities like Oxford and Cambridge and look for new talent.

所以你们是会主动去大学招聘，还是主要通过网上申请这种被动方式，让有意向的人自行投递？

So do you actively go to universities looking to recruit or is it more of a passive thing where the applications are online and anyone's willing to apply?

是的，这两种方式都有。

Yes, and it's all true.

我们既会去大学招聘，也会从全球75所以上的高校中物色人才。

We both go to universities, and we source from over 75 universities in the world.

哇。

Wow.

不，我们没法去那么多大学，我们团队规模有限。

No, we can't go to that many universities, we're a small team.

我们力求精简，并审慎考虑资源分配，但我们确实会举办校园活动，我自己也听说过‘牛奶巡回’招聘。

We try to be lean and we try to be thoughtful about how to deploy resource, but we have on campus events, I've heard of milk rounds myself.

在美国我们就是这么称呼的，我觉得这个说法很酷。

That's how we call it in The US, but I'm like, oh, that's a cool term.

其实我也不知道为什么叫‘牛奶巡回’。

I don't even know why it's called the milk round, actually.

我该查查这个词的来历。

I should look that up.

我有次问过别人。

I asked somebody once.

在美国我们叫‘咖啡闲聊’，我猜意思应该差不多。

Thought it was like we call them coffee chats in The US, I assume it's similar.

除此之外，我们还提供线上体验活动和网络研讨会。

But in addition to that, we also have online experiences, webinars.

我们设有洞察周活动。

We have insight weeks.

我们邀请人们到办公室参与体验，并且每年都会在英国为学生举办这类活动。

We invite people to our offices to engage in experiences, and we do host that in The UK annually for students.

我们还提供案例竞赛。

We offer case competitions.

所有这些活动在该地区都有开展。

So all of that is available in the region.

再次强调，这些举措的真正目的是为学生及更多人提供教育和实践经验，因为我认为现在信息如此泛滥，涌向学生的速度如此之快。

And again, it's really with the intent of providing education and experience to students and beyond, because I think the information now is just so abundant and coming at students so fast.

我认为我们有责任成为机遇的传播者，让人们能在职业生涯越来越早的阶段做出最明智的选择。

And I think it's our responsibility to be educators of what our opportunity is so people can make the most informed decisions at an earlier and earlier time in their careers.

哦，你看。

Oh, look.

制片人刚给我发了一条消息。

The producers just sent me a note.

家庭送奶服务在英国是一项历史悠久的传统，这点我可以作证。

Home milk delivery is a long standing practice in Great Britain, which I can attest to.

在二十世纪六十年代中期，当企业开始走访大学，直接向求职者宣传他们的工作机会，-时，这些访问就被非正式地称为“牛奶轮巡”。

In the mid nineteen sixties, when companies began touring universities to promote and advertise their job opportunities directly to candidates, the visits became known informally as the Milk Round.

就是这样。

So there you go.

谢谢。

Thank you.

那么

So

那么接下来就从流程讲起。

so moving on from the process.

所以一旦你幸运地获得了学院的席位，能否给我们讲讲日常的作息安排是怎样的？

So once you are lucky if you're lucky enough to get a place, on the academy, can you talk us a little bit about what the daily routine's like?

一个人能期待些什么呢？

What can somebody expect?

嗯，实习项目开始时，我们会进行为期一周的通用入职培训。

Well, the internship program, we start with a one week experience of general onboard training, what have you.

我认为这包括从如何使用门禁卡到建立第一个财务模型的所有内容。

I think that's everything from how your key card works to building your first financial model.

我想这能帮助你们适应接下来的几周，也就是在团队中完成一个有实际交付价值的个人项目。

I think it just sort of helps you with the next several weeks, which is working on a team with an individual project deliverable that is used on this team.

我们既重视效率，也注重有意识地做事。

We believe in efficiency, but we also believe in doing things with intention.

因此，团队会安排对实习生有意义的项目，让他们参与其中，并由团队的分析师和投资组合经理进行指导。

So the teams have projects that are meaningful to them that interns get to engage with, get to be mentored by analysts and portfolio managers on their team.

关于学习成为分析师和投资组合经理所需的工具，谁来负责教学呢？

In terms of learning the tools that you need to be an analyst and a portfolio manager, who's doing the teaching?

是由现任的投资组合经理和分析师来指导，还是会有像你这样的第三方人员进来培训建模方法？

Is it the PM and incumbent analysts where you go to, or do you have third party people like yourself who come in and sort of train people how to model?

是的，是我的团队负责。

Yeah, so it's my team.

我们属于投资专业发展团队，也就是学院团队，我们都是——我想这在Point72很常见你也知道——我们都是实践者出身，前从业者。

So we do the investment professional development team, the academy team, we are all, and I think this is actually common and you know this having worked at Point72, we're all practitioners, former practitioners.

对我们来说，这实际上是把我们已经掌握的知识传授给他们，帮助他们快速上手。

And so for us, it's really teaching what we already have learned to help onboard them.

我知道有些第三方公司专门教授建模课程。

I am familiar with third party companies that teach modeling.

我认为那非常棒，对人们来说是很好的经历。

I think that's terrific and a great experience for people.

强烈推荐这种方式。

Highly recommend it.

但我们公司想要些不同的东西，所以我们自主研发了培训体系。

For our firm, we want something a little bit different, and so we built it ourselves.

因此初始培训全部采用学院专有的课程体系，而当人们加入团队后，当然还会有持续的学习机会。

And so the initial trainings all come from things that are proprietary to the Academy, and then when people are on Teams, of course, there's ongoing learning.

归根结底，这是一个学徒制的行业，因此我认为每个人都有责任——正如我之前所说，从文化角度而言，培养下一代是我们共同的义务。

Ultimately, this is an apprenticeship business, and so I think it's incumbent upon everybody, and as I said before, culturally, it's incumbent upon everybody to be teaching the next generation.

当然这首先从我们自身做起，这是我们内部构建的体系。

But certainly that starts with us, it's something that we've built in house.

我正想请教关于从分析师转型为投资组合经理的过程。

So I was going to ask a little bit about the transition from analyst to portfolio manager.

我知道这个问题有点超出学院范畴了，但假设你从学院毕业后被聘为分析师，那么后续的职业发展路径大致是怎样的？如何逐步成长为投资组合经理？

I know we're going a little bit beyond the Academy here, but so if you are at the academy, you get hired as an analyst, what's then the sort of, you know, projected career path to becoming a portfolio manager?

是逐步获得更多责任吗？

Do you slowly get given more responsibility?

我在职的时候大致是这种模式。

I mean, when I was there, that's kind of the way it worked.

我做了几年分析师，如果能详细说明下这个流程，听众应该会感兴趣。

I was an analyst for a few years, but if you could explain a little bit about that, I think people find it interesting.

有些传统能延续下来是件好事，对吧？

It's nice that some things have stayed the same, right?

但我认为对冲基金确实如此，与其他金融职位或行业职位不同，它的结构相当扁平，所以这里没有太多晋升和头衔。

But I think that part is true in that being at hedge fund, unlike other financial positions or other types of industry positions, it's a fairly flat structure, and so there's not a lot of promotions and titles here.

关键在于获得责任和问责权。

It's about gaining responsibility and accountability.

你知道，一开始你可能会与投资组合经理、团队中更资深的分析师一起处理投资机会、公司覆盖，我们称之为‘跟票’。

And you know, in the beginning, you might work on opportunities, investments, company coverage, as we call it, with a portfolio manager, with a more seasoned senior analyst on a team.

但随着时间的推移，即使作为年轻人，你也要为决策负责。

But over time, you'd be, even as a younger person, responsible for decision making.

我常说这是人们真正需要考虑的事情。

And I always say that's something that people really need to think about.

在年轻时就要为决策承担责任，既是福气也是负担，并非适合所有人。

Having accountability for decision making at a younger age is a blessing and a burden, and it's not for everybody.

我认为对我们来说，关键在于覆盖标的数量，可能达到一定数量后就要深入研究这些标的。

And I think that for us, it's about covering names, covering maybe up to a certain number of names, and getting deeper in those names.

现在不是看我能覆盖多少标的，这已经大不相同了，特别是在数据泛滥的今天，你需要知道哪些信息是可获取的？

It's not about how many names can I cover, these days it's quite different, particularly with the proliferation of data where you need to know so more information is available on something?

在信息更丰富的时代成为领域专家，可能意味着覆盖的公司数量较少，但对它们的了解要比其他人更深入。

Becoming a domain expert when there's more information available means maybe knowing a few less names, but knowing them more deeply than other people.

关于编程本身，你刚才谈到了市场的快速变化和动态特性，我猜。

And about the programming itself, I mean, you talked just then about the fast changing, the dynamic nature of markets, I guess.

是的。

Yeah.

因为，你知道，在过去，我们真正关注的是基本面分析。

Because, you know, back in the day, it was really fundamental analysis.

那确实是我们当时的重点。

That's really what we focused on.

但现在要考虑地缘政治、算法、人工智能、加密货币。

But now it's geopolitics, algorithms, AI, crypto.

我的意思是，你们是如何将这些主题融入编程的？

I mean, how are you bringing those topics into programming?

当然。

Sure.

归根结底，这仍然是基本面分析。

I mean, at the end of the day, it's still fundamental analysis.

我认为问题在于：对公司和业务的理解应该包含哪些内容？

And I think the question becomes what's incorporated into the comprehension of a company and a business?

正如你所说，现在需要考量的因素比以往多得多。

To your point, a lot more than ever.

一方面是因为信息变得可获取了，另一方面是因为世界似乎变化得非常快。

A, because it's available, the information is available, and B, because the world seems to be changing really fast.

我认为与我们所有人思考未来最相关的例子就是人工智能，对吧？

The best example that I think relevant to all of us thinking about the future is AI, right?

思考人工智能将会对许多事物产生什么影响，特别是对分析师这个角色？

And thinking about what is AI going to do to a lot of things, but to the analyst role?

这已经是我们开始深入思考的问题。

And this is something that we've already started to think about a lot.

从我们了解到这是什么以及它将产生什么影响的那一刻起，我和我的团队就立即开始思考：我们要培训什么内容？我们将为分析师提供哪些工具？整个工作流程会有哪些不同？

From the moment that we learned what is this and what is it going to do, my team and I, we immediately started thinking about what are we going to train, what are the tools we're going to make available to analysts, and how are the processes going to be different?

我们在这方面确实投入了大量精力，并认为至关重要的是不让任何人掉队——因为这是所有事物运作方式发生的根本性、永久性变革。但我们已花费大量时间实质性地更新课程体系，让人们现在就掌握未来工具，确保他们的职业竞争力。要知道当年你我从事投资工作时，这些技术根本不存在，对吧？

And this is something that we really have leaned into and think it's important that we leave nobody behind in the sense that this is a real secular, permanent change in how everything behaves, but we have spent a lot of time meaningfully changing our curriculum so that people are incorporating the tools of the future today and make themselves relevant for their careers, knowing that when you and I were in this business doing the investing roles, none of this existed, right?

那我们可就麻烦大了，对吧？

And we'd be in trouble, right?

所以我认为必须持续跟进这些变革性的事物。

So you have to stay on top of, I think, things that have changed.

我常举的最简单例子是：多年前信用卡数据曾是创新、差异化且前沿的代表。

The simplest example I always bring up is credit card data years ago was innovative and different, and cutting edge and leading edge.

而如今如果不熟悉这些企业的信用卡数据动态，你基本上就偏离了行业共识。

And today, if you're not familiar with what's going on in the credit card data on many of these companies, you're kind of missing consensus.

人工智能也将面临同样的情况，对吧？

Well, AI is going be the same, right?

因此必须确保不仅教授工具本身，更要指导人们如何运用工具并实现创新。

And so you have to make sure that you are meaningfully teaching people not just what the tools are, but how to use them and how to innovate with them.

所以我非常期待看到分析师角色在未来会如何演变。

And so I'm really excited to see what the analyst role is going to be in the future.

我和我的团队一直在思考如何改进我们这里的教育体系，让分析师能充分利用现有资源做到最好。

And my team and I think all the time about the changes we need to make in our education system here so that analysts are the best with what's available.

Jamie，我想请教一下Point72在文化运作方面的开放程度，首先恭喜你们取得的所有成就。

Jamie, I wanted to ask a little bit about how open Point72 is being about how things work in its culture because, you know, congratulations on all this.

这个播客存在的意义之一，就是因为多年来对冲基金一直是封闭、神秘、不透明的组织，外界对其运作知之甚少。

One of the reasons this podcast exists is because for so many years, hedge funds were these closed, mysterious, opaque organizations where people didn't realize what was going on.

但你们在展示日常工作场景和人才吸引方面做得非常出色。

But you've done a really nice job of opening up about what a day in the life is like, what sort of people you attract.

能否请您谈谈公司文化，比如Point72典型的一天是怎样的这类话题？

So can you talk a little bit about the culture, about what a day in the life of Point72 looks like, you know, that sort of thing.

我认为这种文化传承自学徒制传统——从你在这里的时期，到我做分析师的时代，直到今天甚至比以往任何时候都重要。

Again, I think the culture comes this is an apprenticeship culture from the days when you were here and the days I was an analyst all the way through, certainly through today, and I think probably more than ever.

在我看来，现在年轻人刚入行时，通过学院获得的导师指导比任何时候都重要，我们整个公司都建立了导师圈制度。

It seems to me like, you know, these days when I meet people who are, you know, young in their careers and coming through the Academy, mentorship is more important than ever, and that is something mentorship circles is actually something that we have throughout the entire firm.

这不仅仅局限于学院内部。

It's not limited to the Academy.

我们是一家拥有数千名员工的公司。

We are a firm of thousands.

学院每年招聘40到50人，所以每年只占很小一部分。

The Academy employs 40 to 50 people a year, so just a small fraction a year.

由于我们的留存率很高，现在已占投资团队十年间总人数的四分之一。

Does now make up a quarter of the investment population over ten years because our retention rate is so high.

但除了业务这部分，指导制度是公司自上而下都坚信的理念。

But beyond just that part of the business, mentorship is something that the firm believes in, again, from the top down.

这源自史蒂夫的倡导。

That comes from Steve.

甚至在我来这儿之前，当我在大学筹建学院时，我就经常告诉人们：我不向任何人索取任何东西。

And even before I got here, I always told people when I was building the academy that worked on at the university before I came here, I always said, I'm not looking for anything from anybody.

我的职业生涯很幸运，能来到这里我非常感恩。

I've been blessed in my career and I'm very lucky to be here.

我只要求当下一代人打电话给你时，你能接起电话。

All I ask is that you pick up the phone the next time the next generation calls you.

这也是我对任何参与过类似我们项目的人，甚至加入过类似我们公司的人——无论是否通过学院培养——始终不变的期望。

And it's something that I still ask of anybody who comes through a program like ours, or even if you come through a firm like ours, whether you came through the Academy or not.

我认为为下一代人接听电话并提供帮助很重要，无论他们来自哪里，只要他们需要你的时间。

I think it's important to always pick up the phone for the next generation and help them, regardless of where they came from, if they're asking for your time.

因此从文化角度来看，我认为这一点在这里很重要，对整个公司而言也很重要。

And so culturally, I think that is important here, and I think it's important throughout the entire firm.

我不会仅仅把这一点归功于学院。

I would not just put that on the academy.

就日常活动而言，稍微转个话题，我想说没有两天是相同的，因为市场——你能记得历史上有哪两个交易日是完全相同的吗？

In terms of the daily activities, just to pivot a little bit, I would say no two days are the same, because the market can you remember a time in history that two market days are the same?

其实我真正喜欢的是你们网站上有个'生活中的一天'栏目，我记不清是谁做的了，就是那种七点或七点半到岗，然后消化新闻的日常。

What I actually really enjoyed is on your website I can't remember the name of the person who does a day in the life and, you know, is get in at seven or 07:30, and it's like digest the news.

比如，市场会对这个消息作何反应？

Like, how are the markets gonna react to this?

我非常喜欢这个，因为就像你说的，要做好应对任何情况的准备。

And I I love that because as you say, like, you know, be prepared for anything.

我以前负责保险股，所以任何全球事件都可能产生影响。

I used to deal with insurance stocks, so it was always any kind of global event could have repercussions.

那时候每天一上班就要开始分析研判。

So it was that moment of getting in and then trying to work out.

每天都像在解谜题。

Every day was a puzzle.

就像在试图预测股票会怎么走。

It's like, let's try and work out what the stocks are going to do.

我很认同你刚才说的，因为我认为不变的是你每天坚持的习惯、流程和框架。

Well, I like what you said there, because I think what is a constant are the habits and the processes and the frameworks that you bring every day.

不过正如你所说，保险业确实充满未知——这很奇妙，因为你永远在等待下一场灾难，这其实挺糟糕的。

Although, to your point, you don't know what's going to insurance has an that's amazing because you wait for the next disaster, which is terrible.

确实很糟糕。

It's awful.

但与此同时，你每天依然坚持着相同的分析框架。

But at the same time, you're bringing the consistent framework every day.

你醒来后，消化新闻资讯，自问一些问题，按照相同的流程进行沟通。

You wake up, you digest the news, you ask yourself the questions, you communicate in the same process.

你的模型可能都是以相同方式构建的。

Your models are all built the same, perhaps.

因此在这个混乱的世界里，你试图创造一些稳定性，而这源于良好流程的习惯养成。

So in the world of the chaos, you try to create some consistency, and that comes through habit formation of good process.

这正是我们从学院到其他教练所传授的重要内容。

And that's a lot of what we teach from the academy through the other coach.

我在整个分析师团队中开展培训项目，从初级到最资深的分析师，我们共同培养这些习惯，持续进行塑造与重塑——无论是首次覆盖新公司的新人，还是初次管理团队的新晋管理者。

I run coaching programs throughout the entire analyst population to the most senior analysts at the firm, and we work on those habits and the continual formation, reformation, whether it's a person sort of covering a new name for the first time or managing a new person for the first time.

哪些习惯能在混乱中创造稳定性？

What are the habits that help create consistency in the chaos?

我认为这有助于实现个人能力的规模化扩展。

And that helps, I think, to scale yourself.

当遇到特殊状况时——就像你负责的领域肯定经常出现的那样——这种习惯体系能帮助实现规模化应对。

It helps to scale when things are idiosyncratic, as they certainly would have been, I guess, in your coverage.

因此我认为你提出了一个极好的观点，我们通过实践来保持一致性。

And so I think you raise an excellent point that what we can do with consistency is what we practice.

我想稍微谈谈数字，让听众了解你们招收了多少人、毕业了多少人、以及被录用者的比例。

I wanted to talk a little bit about numbers so people listening have an idea of how many people you take, how many graduates you have, what percentage of people get taken on as hires.

你能谈谈这方面吗？我记得自2015年以来大约有160名毕业生？

Could you talk a little bit about that since I think it's 160 graduates since 2015?

实际上，我认为目前已经远超200人了。

Actually, think we're well over 200 at this point.

哦，好的，抱歉。

Oh, okay, sorry.

不，我很乐意纠正这个，因为我对此感到非常兴奋。

No, it's something I'm happy to correct because I'm so excited about it.

目前我们在全球范围内已经远超200人了。

We're well over 200 at this point around the world.

我们的留存率很高，超过半数的人仍在职。

We have a high retention well over half of them are still with us.

关于我们雇佣多少人，学院毕业生与外部招聘的比例之类的问题，我们不相信设定目标。

In terms of how many we hire, academy versus external hires, or what have you, we don't believe in targets.

我们没有具体的百分比目标。

We don't have a specific percentage target.

我们只想找到最优秀的人才。

We just want to find the best talent.

而且我们已经讨论过，无论背景或经验水平如何，我们都会关注某些特质。

And we already talked about just some of the traits that we look for regardless of background or experience level or what have you.

学院为我们提供了优秀的人才输送渠道，希望结果能说明一切。

The Academy gives us a great pipeline, and hopefully the results speak for themselves.

让我特别兴奋的是，现在我们确实有学院毕业生在公司内外（如果他们已离职）都拥有决策权。

I'm really excited about, you know, we definitely now have Academy graduates who have discretion at the firm and outside the firm if they've left.

这就是我的回报，也是我最自豪的事情。

And so that's my reward, and that's what I'm most proud of.

但即使是我们的横向招聘人员，也能从我们现有的培训和发展计划中受益。

But even our lateral hires benefit from the training and development programs that we have now.

因此，我们致力于在员工职业生涯的每个阶段促进其成长，并相信长期发展的重要性。

And so we try to evolve people at every stage of their career and believe in long term development.

无论顶尖人才来自何处，学院体系都必须与外部招聘竞争，当学院未能胜过外部招聘时，我们也乐于从中学习。

And wherever the best talent comes from, the Academy has to compete with external, and we're happy to learn from when the Academy doesn't beat out an external hire.

我认为这很重要，因为我们始终追求进步。

I think that's important, because we're always looking to get better.

我对我们取得的成就深感自豪，但我想强调的是，我一直在学习如何为未来培养更优秀的人才。

I'm really proud of the success we've had, but I would say that I'm trying to always be a student of how we can train people better for tomorrow.

杰米，关于投资策略有个问题。

And Jamie, a question about strategies.

显然，这指向了全球最著名（若非最著名也是之一）的多空股票对冲基金之一，多年来取得了巨大成功。

Obviously, points somebody to one of the, if not the most famous, long short equity of pod shop in the world and been hugely successful for so many years.

那么拓展其他策略领域的情况如何？

What about moving into other strategies?

内部是否有讨论过涉足加密货币或更多固定收益领域？

Is there any to talk internally about that crypto, more fixed income world?

公司确实有其他策略。

Well, firm does have other strategies.

我们刚刚启动了一个新的私募信贷领域。

We just launched a new private credit area.

我们确实交易固定收益产品，拥有大型宏观策略，公司内部还有庞大的算法交易部门。

We do trade fixed income, we have a big macro strategy, we have a big algorithmic area within the firm.

顺便提一下，对系统化交易感兴趣的人可以加入立方体学院。

And by the way, there is a cubist academy for those who are interested in the systematic side.

我不负责那部分业务，但我们确实已扩展到公司的其他领域，公司也在全球范围内拓展了其他策略。

I don't oversee that piece of the business, but we definitely have expanded to other areas of the firm, and the firm has expanded to other strategies in the world.

我仍然专注于多空策略，这里的学院是我们的核心业务，但公司显然已超越多空策略。

I still continue to focus on long short, and the academy here is our bread and butter, but the firm has definitely moved beyond long short.

我大约十年前就离开了这个领域，已经很久了，因为我当时就发现...

And I left this world about ten years ago, quite quite a while ago, because I found it then.

我觉得这变得困难了。

I thought this is getting hard.

我是说，赚钱真的变得越来越难了。

I mean, it was getting really hard to make money.

你觉得现在变得更难了吗？

Do you think it's getting harder?

是因为信息量太大了吗？

Is that the information is too much?

还是因为变化太快了？

It's happening too fast?

我认为确实比过去困难多了。

I think it's definitely harder than it used to be.

天啊，我退出投资界的时间比你还早。

Gosh, I left the investing world longer than that.

你在这个行业坚持的时间比我长多了。

You made it much longer than I did.

所以恭喜你，向你致敬。

So congrats and congratulations to you.

我想说的是，我感到非常幸运，幸运的是我们能够将曾经的冒险者转变为我们的教练团队成员。

I guess what I can say is that I feel very fortunate lucky, fortunate that we've been able to bring in former risk takers to then pivot to our coaching seats.

而且公司资源充足，能够应对这个不断变化的贝塔世界。

And the firm is well endowed with resource to try to make sense of an ever increasing beta world.

因此我认为，必须用可用的工具资源和相关培训来匹配世界的变化节奏。

And so I think you have to match the pace and the changes that have happened in the world with the tools and resources that you can make available, and the training of those tools and resources.

提供资源是一回事，教会人们如何运用这些资源来提高生产力、效率和信息解读能力是另一回事。

It's one thing to throw resources at somebody, it's another thing to teach them how to use them to help with their productivity, efficiency, interpretation of information.

归根结底，我认为关键在于加快节奏并提高信息获取的速度和体量。

At the end of the day, think it's a question of just turning up the volume on pace and probably on the volume on volume of information, so speed and access to information.

我们努力的方向是：在这个前提下，如何通过效率提升、自动化改进和培训优化来最终提高生产力？

And what we try to do is say, what can we do to help with ultimately the productivity in light of that, whether it's efficiency improvements, automation improvements, training improvements?

所以，是的，这份工作还是交给比我更擅长的人来做比较好。

And so, yeah, better than me to have to do this job.

我觉得这实在太难了。

I think it's so hard.

我常说，我们建立了一个我自己都进不去的项目。

I always said, we built a program that I could never get into.

向我们拥有的教师和教练致敬。

Hats off to the teachers that we have, the coaches that we have.

这是个了不起的团队，我们共事已久，担任这个角色的每个人都曾亲历这份工作。

It's a terrific group, we've all been together a long time, and everyone who's in this role has done this job.

我认为这是个重要的区别。

And I think that's an important distinction.

我只聘用具备这类:

I only hire people who have this kind of experience to help teach the next generation.

我们时间有点紧张了，所以再问几个问题。

So we're we're kind of running a little bit out of time, so just a few more questions, and and thank you for everything so far.

我记得曾读到过，交易一次期货能学到的东西可能抵得上读一整套股市书籍。

I remember reading once that you can learn as much by trading a future as you can by reading a whole set of books on the stock market.

那么您会给人们什么建议呢？

So what advice do you kind of give people?

也许现在有些年轻人正在听，他们真的很想进入这个世界。

Maybe there's some young people listening now who who really wanna get into this world.

他们是否应该建立一个模拟投资组合来玩一玩？

Should they kind of have a little dummy portfolio themselves just to have fun with it?

或者你认为有哪些书是大家必读的？

Or are there certain books that you really think people should be reading?

还是说，每天读读《华尔街日报》，看看是否能让你着迷？

Or, just read The Wall Street Journal every day and see if it fascinates you?

对于对这个领域感兴趣的人，你会推荐他们做些什么？

What kind of things would you recommend people to do who are interested in this world?

当然不是每个人都有条件这样做，我年轻时也负担不起股票交易，但我建议每天跟踪两三个你感兴趣的股票，坚持一年。

Certainly not everybody can afford to, and I couldn't have afforded to trade stocks when I was younger, but I think following a couple of names every day for a year, pick two or three of interest to you.

每天收盘后，可以看看标准差或者与前一日相比的百分比变化。

Every day after close, after the market closes, maybe look at the standard deviation or or percent change from the day before.

如果发现波动超过——比如说——昨日收盘价近两个标准差的范围，那很可能是有原因的。

And if it looks like it's more than, you know, I would say, like, almost two standard deviations beyond yesterday's close, there's probably a reason.

所以一年中大部分时间，如果你考虑标准差的话，可能有10到20个交易日会超出正常范围，这总是有原因的。

And so maybe for most of, you know, out of the year, if you think about standard deviations, you know, maybe 10 maybe twenty trading days a year out of, whatever, 252, it's for a reason.

然后你去查原因。

And you look up the why.

可能原因与公司自身的财报发布有关，可能是竞争对手的消息，也可能是宏观经济事件。

Maybe the why is specific to an earnings release of the company itself, maybe it's of a competitor, maybe it's a macroeconomic event.

无论哪种情况，如果你每个交易日都这样做，在出现显著偏离时深入调查，一年后你会比一年前更了解这家公司的行为模式、股票走势和市场反应。

Whatever the case might be, if you do that practice every trading day, dig in when the deviation is significant, in a year's time, you'll probably know a lot more about that company's behavior, how the stock moves and feels, than you did a year earlier.

所以我认为，任何人都可以这样做，无论他们是否有银行账户，我认为这将教会人们他们对这个行业有多大兴趣。

And so just that simple practice, which anybody can do with or without a bank account, I think will teach people how much interest they have in this business.

这个行业不仅仅是研究公司。

The business isn't just about researching companies.

事实上，这只是其中一部分，在研究这个行业 话题上你可以做很多不同的工作。

In fact, that's part of it, but you can do a lot of different jobs in research.

我想强调的是，这份工作的本质是把握市场动向和股票走势，而这背后需要扎实的研究习惯和流程作为支撑。

I think the distinction I'd like to make is that this job is about market moves and about stock movements, and it's underpinned by good research habits and processes.

所以仅仅知道你喜欢研究是远远不够的。

And so knowing that you enjoy research really isn't enough.

真正的问题是，你喜欢股票波动吗？

It's really, do you enjoy stock movements?

你喜欢市场吗？

Do you enjoy markets?

我认为这种实践能帮助人们判断这是否适合他们，因为其中涉及一些风险，人们需要切身感受一下。

And I think that practice will help educate people on whether this is for them, because there's a little bit of risk involved and people have to feel that a little bit.

我们确实有推荐书单。

We do have a reading list.

我邀请大家访问我们的网站。

I invite people to come to our website.

那里有各种类型的书籍——从《市场魔法师》和《伟大交易员的习惯》（再次强调习惯的重要性），到对历史市场案例或公司的深度分析。

There's a whole host of different kinds of books ranging from market wizards and habits of great traders, again, thinking about habits, to deep dives on historical market situations or companies.

Jamie，你刚才关于跟踪几只股票一年市场波动的解释，这是我听过关于如何成为优秀对冲基金经理的最好解释之一。

Jamie, I think that explanation you just gave about following a few names for a year in market moves is one of the better explanations I've ever heard about what it takes to be a good hedge fund manager.

那么

So

谢谢

Thank you.

你知道，我真的很感激这一点。

You know, I really appreciated that.

杰米，这真是太棒了。

Jamie, this has been fantastic.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

在结束前，那个网站上有大量信息可供查阅。

Before we finish, the website to go to has got so much information.

我已经访问过好几次了，你们在如何申请、何时申请等方面做得非常出色。

I've been on it quite a few times, and you've done a great job of putting up there how to apply, when to apply, and all that stuff.

请访问point72.com/careers查看。

Check out point72.com/careers.