重构你的现实：第一部分

这里是《隐藏的大脑》。我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔。在电视喜剧的历史中，不乏性格阴郁、愤世嫉俗的角色。但有一位因其始终如一的悲观心态而尤为突出。

This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta. In the annals of TV comedy, there have been many figures with a dour, cynical outlook. But there's one that stands out for her relentlessly pessimistic mindset.

嗨，我是黛比。

Hi. I'm Debbie.

瑞秋·德拉奇在《周六夜现场》中塑造的令人难忘的角色。

Rachel Dratch's unforgettable character from Saturday Night Life.

你正享受美好的一天，事事顺心。这时‘扫兴鬼黛比’出现了。

You're enjoying your day. Everything's going your way. Then along comes Debbie Downer.

各位，我超爱婚礼的。

You guys, I love weddings.

这是史上最棒的桥段之一。

This is one of the best ever.

祝他们好运吧。这个国家唯一比油价涨得更快的就是离婚率了。

Wish them luck. The only thing higher than gas prices in this country are divorce rates.

扫兴鬼黛比总在派对、婚礼和节日聚会上现身，时刻准备提醒人们生活有多糟糕。

Debbie Downer shows up at parties, weddings, and holiday gatherings, always ready to remind people that life is terrible.

好啦，谁想吃蛋糕？我要来点。来点吧。快，好。给我也拿一块。

Alright, who wants cake? I want some. Want some. Go, alright. Get some for me.

看看我们摄入的精制糖分，美国正面临一场青少年糖尿病的隐形 epidemic。

With all the refined sugars we're eating, America's experiencing a virtual epidemic of juvenile diabetes.

我们生活中都认识这样的'扫兴鬼黛比'。那些人总忍不住强调消极面，专注于他人的缺点和瑕疵，永远、永远觉得杯子是半空的。

We all know Debbie Downers in real life. People who can't help but accentuate the negative. Who focus on the faults and flaws of others. Who always, always see the glass as half empty.

很多人都会跑来跟我说，天哪，那简直像我姐姐/妈妈。每个人生命里都有这么个'扫兴黛比'。我想这就是为什么这个形象如此深入人心。

A lot of people, that's the one people come up to me and they're like, oh my gosh, that is my sister. That's my mother. Like everyone has this Debbie down in their life. I think that's why it hit so hard.

本周《隐藏大脑》探讨思维模式的惊人心理学：它们为何重要，以及如何掌控它们。

This week on Hidden Brain, the surprising psychology of mindsets, why they matter and how to master them.

我们的意念和能量所能创造的奇迹超乎想象，这种力量常常被我们忽视其存在。

What we can do with our minds, what we can do with our intention and our energy is incredible and it's a power that we often fail to realize is even there.

特别提示：今天我们将采取稍显不同的形式。本期是故事的第一部分，下周将播出第二部分。建议按顺序收听这两期节目。

A quick note that we're doing something a little unusual today. This episode is part one of our story. There is going to be a second part. We will feature that story in our next episode. It is best to listen to these episodes in order.

当大多数人思考问题和挑战时，我们总将其归因于外部世界的阻碍与冲突。求职被拒、恋人分手、卧病难起。斯坦福大学心理学家阿莉娅·克鲁姆长期研究我们如何认知面临的障碍并作出反应。

When most of us think about our problems and challenges, we locate them in barriers and conflicts we experience in the outside world. Your job application gets turned down. Your partner breaks up with you. You fall sick and find it hard to get out of bed. At Stanford University, psychologist Aliyah Crum has spent a long time thinking about how we perceive the obstacles we confront and how we respond to them.

阿莉娅·克鲁姆，欢迎来到《隐藏大脑》。

Aliyah Crum, welcome to Hidden Brain.

谢谢，很荣幸参与节目。

Thank you. It's great to be here.

阿莉娅，我了解到你青少年时期是位非常认真的业余运动员。4到14岁参加竞技体操，大学时打一级联盟冰球，后来成为国际排名铁人三项选手。我想带你回到大学时期，那时你正应对着体育训练的巨大消耗。

Aliyah, I understand that you were a very serious amateur athlete as a child and as a young person. From age four to 14, you were a competitive gymnast. In college, you played division one ice hockey. You later became an internationally ranked triathlete. I wanna take you back to your time in college when you were contending with the exertions of your sport.

能描述下你的冰球训练计划吗？

Can you give me a sense of your hockey training regimen?

没错，成为一级运动员可不是开玩笑的。这本身就是一份全职工作，同时还要兼顾大学学业。我们每周训练五天，周末有两场比赛。每次训练两小时，之后还要进行力量训练。

Yeah, being a division one athlete is no joke. It's a full time job in the midst of already a full time job of going to college. We trained five days a week. We had two games on the weekend. Practices were two hours followed by strength training after that.

真是段艰苦的时光。

It was quite a grind.

做了这么多锻炼后，你是否觉得自己已经竭尽全力来保持体型了？

And did you feel as a result of doing all this exercise that you were doing all that you could do to get in shape?

完全没有。有趣的是，我们完成两小时训练后去健身房，仅仅因为觉得还不够，我会再上跑步机或椭圆机做些额外有氧运动。

Not at all. Well, the interesting thing is we'd have a two hour practice, then go to the gym, and then just because I didn't feel like it was quite enough, would get on the treadmill or the elliptical and get a little extra cardio.

有一天她沿着查尔斯河跑步时，一系列 intrusive thoughts（侵入性想法）涌入脑海——她正在辜负他人，也辜负了自己。

One day as she was taking a run along the Charles River, a set of intrusive thoughts entered her mind. She was letting people down. She was letting herself down.

我的队友们都能作证。我们中有几个人总有种匮乏感，觉得做得远远不够，必须再加把劲。这种'还不够，我做得不够'的感觉挥之不去。我永远记得那天在查尔斯河畔跑步时，突然怀疑：到底怎样才算够？

And all my teammates can attest to this. They're like, well, you know, there was a few of us who had this sort of, like, feeling of scarcity, like we just weren't doing quite enough and we needed to do more. And, you know, it was just this persistent feeling of this is not enough. I'm not doing enough. And I remember, I'll never forget it, running on the Charles that day when I had this moment of feeling like, is it ever enough?

我真的能做到足够吗？

Will I ever do enough?

那么在饮食方面呢？作为运动员，除了体能训练，想必你对吃什么、吃多少也极为关注吧？

And and what about when it came to diet? Part of what you have to do when you're an athlete, of course, is all the physical conditioning, but presumably you were also paying a great deal of attention to what and how much you ate.

是的，饮食对运动员至关重要，但也很棘手。不同运动项目有不同要求——作为冰球运动员，你需要增肌同时保持精瘦以确保冰上速度。这些要求某种程度上是相互矛盾的。就像训练时总觉得自己吃得不对：要么过量，要么食物选择不当，体重不是太重就是不够强壮。我天生肌肉发达，却总担心长了不该长的体重。这种持续的冲突和压力让我总觉得应该吃得更少。

Yeah, diet is a huge deal for athletes, and it's tricky, know, and different sports have different issues, you know, you're wanting to, as an ice hockey player, you want to gain muscle, but still stay lean so that you're fast and quick on the ice. These are in some ways, you know, competing demands and same with the exercise, just constantly feeling like I wasn't eating right. I was eating too much or eating not the right foods. I was too heavy or not strong enough or, you know, mostly for me, I'm a naturally muscular person, but I always had this feeling like I was gaining weight that I shouldn't have. So there was this constant conflict, constant tension, feeling like I should be eating less.

阿丽娅身边都是聪明上进的人。我问她那些不断听到的批评声音是来自外界还是内心。

Aaliyah was surrounded by smart, driven people. I asked her if the voices of criticism she constantly heard were coming from the outside or the inside.

这一切都是自我产生的。我有种不确定感，或者说总觉得自己应该达到最佳状态，但又感觉永远差那么一点。每一天都很煎熬。

This was all self generated. I kind of had this uncertainty or feeling like I wanted to be in the best shape possible, but really not feeling like I was ever there. Every day was a struggle.

你会担心别人怎么看你吗？比如你的导师、教练、队友们？

And did you worry about what others were thinking about you, your advisors, your coaches, your fellow players?

噢，无时无刻不在担心。作为运动员，你总怕教授们觉得你不够聪明；也总担心自己能否达到队友的水平。我和好几位奥运选手一起训练过，和他们相比总有种挥之不去的自卑感。

Oh, constantly, you know, as an athlete you're worried that the professors don't think you're as smart or, you know, and as an athlete you worry that, you know, are you gonna live up to playing at the same level as the other teammates that you have? I played with a number of Olympians and there was a constant feeling of inadequacy, you know, compared to them.

阿利亚对心理学感兴趣，却无法理解自己那种永远不够好的匮乏感。几年后读研时，她依然在拼命鞭策自己。不仅是压力大——她因自己感到压力这件事本身而产生了新的压力。她不断自问：为什么我觉得这么吃力？

Aaliyah was interested in psychology but didn't have a good way of understanding her own feeling of scarcity, that nothing she did felt like enough. A few years later, now in graduate school, Aaliyah was driving herself as hard as ever. She wasn't just stressed. The fact that she was stressed had itself become a form of stress. She asked herself, what does it mean that I find this so hard?

读研时期才真正开始学术上的自我怀疑。在哈佛读本科时，我主要是怀着学习成长的热情，选各种有趣的课。后来有幸进入耶鲁读博，压力才真正袭来。我想完成出色的论文，想做有意义的研究，但总在怀疑：我学的东西对吗？点子够好吗？够努力吗？统计知识够用吗？读的文献合适吗？这种持续的自我怀疑带来了巨大压力，让我总处于被威胁的紧绷状态，渴望成功却始终找不到心流体验。

It was grad school for me when the real kind of self doubt started seeping in as an academic. I think as an undergrad at Harvard, I was mostly just excited to be there to learn and to grow and to take interesting classes and I was fortunate enough to get into Yale as a PhD student and that's when I really started to get stressed. Know, I wanted to, you know, have a successful dissertation. I wanted to do research that made a difference and I wasn't sure if I was doing that, you know, I wasn't sure if I was learning the right things, if I had the right ideas, if I was working hard enough, if I knew enough statistics, if I was reading the right papers, there was sort of this constant feeling of, of self doubt. That carried with it a lot of stress, a lot of feeling like I was in this constant state of threat, or challenge, and wanting to succeed, caring about it so much but not really feeling like I was in in flow if you will.

就是无法进入那种...对自己充满信心的状态。

Wasn't in that state of just you know feeling confident in myself.

直到某个加班的深夜，世界突然给了阿利亚一份小礼物——一个顿悟的瞬间。

But then one night as she was working late, the world presented Aliyah with a little gift, a brief moment of insight.

我永远忘不了那一刻。那是读博第三年，每周五早上八点我要和导师彼得·萨洛维开会。

And I'll never forget it. I was this was about my third year in graduate school, and I had my meetings, with my adviser, Peter Salovey, at eight a. M. On Friday mornings. And eight a.

对研究生来说八点仍然算早，但我总记得每周四都在疯狂赶工，想带着新点子、新突破或新分析去见他。那个特别的夜晚，我正在绞尽脑汁构思论文选题，压力非常大——这个点子有价值吗？当时我在实验室熬到深夜。

M. Is still early when you're a grad student, but I always remember sort of frantically Thursdays trying to finish the things that I said I was going to do, come to him with, you know, a new idea or a new breakthrough or some new analyses. And this one particular night, I was working on coming up with the idea that I was going to pursue for my dissertation. So, there was a lot of stress about that, you know, do I have a worthy idea? And I was in the lab late at night.

那时候耶鲁把研究生安排在地下室，就是放统计软件电脑的地方。我在那里焦虑不安地跑数据、想方案，拼命要赶在第二天给导师交出些成果。

Now, they put the grad students at Yale, at least at that time, in the basement of the psychology department. Where they kept the computers with the statistical software. I was in there late at night, stressed, anxious, feeling self doubt, frantically trying to run some analyses, come up with some ideas, know coming up with something that I could present to my advisor the next Outside

实验室紧闭的门后，阿利亚听到了脚步声。

the closed doors of the lab, Aliyah heard footsteps.

是啊，当时已是深夜，我以为不会有人在那儿，但我听到脚步声从门口传来。那个地下室是混凝土结构的，哪怕最轻微的动静都能听见裂缝声或吱呀声。我立刻警觉起来，心想：谁在这儿？我得跟谁说话？我可没时间闲聊，你知道的，我很忙。这时门吱呀一声开了，探头进来的是布雷特·洛根。布雷特当时是耶鲁的IT人员，现在依然是。

Yeah, it was late at night so I didn't think anyone would really be there but I heard footsteps coming down the door and you can hear anything in that basement because it's concrete and you know even the slightest move you feel a crack or a creak And you know, I perk up, I'm like, Who's here? Who am I going to have to talk to? I don't have any time to talk, you know, I'm busy. And the door creaked open and in looked Brett Logan. Now Brett was the IT person at Yale, still is.

他是个很棒的人。我们算是朋友，但那一刻我实在没空和他寒暄。所以我抬头看他时满脸疲惫焦虑，他肯定察觉到了，因为他只对我说了句：'啊，这不过是攀登珠峰途中一个寒冷漆黑的夜晚'，然后就关上了门。

He's a great guy. And, you know, we were friends, but I didn't have any time to talk to Brett at this particular point in time. So I looked up at him kind of with this frazzled, stressed state, and he must have picked up on it because all he said in response to me was, Ah, it's just a cold, dark night on the side of Everest. And then shut the door.

'攀登珠峰途中一个寒冷漆黑的夜晚'？你觉得他想表达什么，阿利亚？

A cold, dark night on the side of Everest? What do you think he was trying to say, Aliyah?

说实话，当时我根本没多想，就回了句'好的布雷特'就继续埋头苦干。但大约两周后的某个深夜，我突然惊醒，终于明白他的意思。想象你正在攀登珠峰，总会经历些寒冷漆黑的夜晚，可能会疲惫不堪。

You know, at the time, I didn't think twice about it. I was just like, Okay, Brett. Went back to my stressing and struggling. But it occurred to me about two weeks later, I remember waking up in the middle of the night and thinking and realizing what he meant. So if you were climbing Everest, you could imagine that there'd be some nights that were cold, that were dark, perhaps you'd be tired or strained.

但这不正是意料之中吗？难道真以为攀登珠峰是公园散步？如果轻而易举，那还称得上伟大壮举吗？所以我在期待什么？

But what did you expect? Did you really expect that climbing Everest would be a walk in the park? Would climbing Everest be such a great feat if it was just a walk in the park? No. So what did I expect?

难道我指望获得心理学博士学位、为领域做贡献会很容易？如果易如反掌，那还算得上非凡成就吗？我认为布雷特的话让我彻底转变了视角和心态。

Did I expect that getting a PhD, making a contribution to the field of psychology was going to be easy? No. Would it be that great of a feat if it were just a walk in the park? No. So I think what Brett meant there, what it meant to me was it really gave me a profound shift in perspective, a profound shift in mindset.

从'这种压力和挣扎说明我不够格'的消极想法，转变为'这种压力、挣扎和寒冷黑夜本就是过程的一部分'。正是这些历练让你卓越，让你成功。

Going from this place of like, ah, this stress and struggle is a sign that I'm not worthy, that something's wrong to, oh, this stress, this struggle, this cold dark night, this is part of the process. This is it. Like, this is what makes you great, what makes you succeed.

所以某种程度上你领悟到：困难确实存在，但有其意义。一旦聚焦于这个意义，困难反而有了新的解读维度。

So in some ways what you were hearing was that yes, it's difficult, but it's difficult for a reason. And once you focus on the reason, then in some ways it puts the difficulty into some perspective.

百分百正确。公共卫生、文化氛围、书籍都在传递'压力有害'的信息，说它会致病、降低效率，应该避免或抵消。但回想你成长最快或表现最出色的时刻——无论是作为运动员、专业人士还是个人——那些时刻难道没有压力吗？答案永远是肯定的。

A 100%. You know, get messages from everywhere, from public health, from culture, from books telling us that stress is a bad thing, that it's going to make us sick, it's going to hurt our productivity, and therefore we should avoid it or kind of counteract it. But if you think about the times in your life that you grew the most as a person or you performed as an exceptionally high level, as an athlete or as a professional or as an individual. And you look back to those times and you ask yourself, did those times involve any stress? The answer invariably is yes.

压力是我们关注事物的核心组成部分。压力被定义为在实现目标过程中遭遇或预期逆境时的体验。最后这部分至关重要——那些与目标相关的努力。这意味着我们不会对不在乎的事物感到压力。

Part and parcel of the things that matter to us is stress. Stress is defined as the experience or anticipation of adversity in one's goal related efforts. That last part is critical. Those goal related efforts. What that means is we don't get stressed about things we don't care about.

比如如果我告诉你约翰尼要辍学了，或者他通不过博士资格考试，除非你就是约翰尼，或者关心约翰尼，或者在意世界上所有约翰尼们能否完成学业，否则这不会让你感到压力对吧？所以你会发现压力与我们的价值观、关切和目标是一体两面的关系。你会开始用新的视角、新的心态来理解压力的本质。

So if I told you that Johnny was failing school or, you know, Johnny wasn't going to pass his PhD qualification exams, that wouldn't stress you out unless you were Johnny. Or you cared about Johnny or you cared about the Johnnies of the world passing school, right? So you start to realize that stress and our values, our cares, our goals, are two sides of the same coin. You start to get a new approach, know, a new mindset about the nature of stress.

有趣的是，当你在珠峰寒夜中对那句评论及其含义产生顿悟时，客观处境其实并未改变。你仍在读研，仍在寻找论文选题，仍在应付所有琐事——但这个认知确实带来了改变。

What's interesting of course is that when you had this insight about the comment and what the comment might mean, you know, cold dark night on the side of Everest, it didn't change your circumstances. You were still in grad school, you were still trying to find a dissertation topic, you were still juggling all the things that you were juggling, and yet it did make a difference.

那是翻天覆地的改变。你说得对，其他一切都没变。既不是在数据分析时突然开窍，也不是博士研究突然有了突破性进展。

It made a profound difference. It was game changing. And you're exactly right. Nothing else changed. It's not like I had a eureka moment in, you know, in some analyses or that I just advanced a year in my PhD.

我还是同一个人，面对同样的处境，处理同样的会议和任务。唯一改变的是我对攻读博士过程中压力与挣扎的认知方式。

I was the same person in the same circumstance doing the same thing with the same meetings and tasks ahead of me. The only thing that changed was my mindset was my view of stress of struggle in this process of getting a PhD.

几个世纪以来，哲学家、小说家和心灵导师都在探讨这个问题：我们生活中的困境显然受外界经历影响，但对这些困境的感知也源于内心。当节目继续时，我们将探讨现代心理学关于心智如何构建问题及其解决方案的新发现。

Philosophers, novelists, and spiritual counselors have wrestled with the question for centuries. The problems we face in our lives are obviously shaped by our experiences in the world. But our perceptions of those problems are also our perceptions. They are shaped by what happens inside our own minds. When we come back, what modern psychological science is finding about the role that our own minds play in our construction of problems and their solutions.

您正在收听《隐藏的大脑》，我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔。这里是《隐藏的大脑》，我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔。我们的心智在多大程度上塑造了我们感知世界的方式？

You're listening to Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta. This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta. How much do our minds shape the way we experience the world?

思维方式又如何影响我们应对挑战与挫折的能力？斯坦福大学心理学家阿莉娅·克拉姆研究日常挑战的解读与应对。她的研究表明，虽然我们自然关注日常困境中看似客观的事实，但这些挑战往往深受主观心智的影响。阿莉娅，让我们再次回顾你运动生涯的关键时刻。

And how much does the way we think shape our ability to respond to challenges and setbacks? Aaliyah Crum is a psychologist at Stanford University. She studies how we interpret and respond to everyday challenges. Her research suggests that while we naturally focus on what appear to be the objective facts of our day to day dilemmas and setbacks, these challenges are often shaped in consequential ways by our own minds. Aliyah, I want to take you back one more time to a defining moment in your athletic career.

现在我们要回溯到你十岁那年，距离重要体操比赛只剩三天。能说说你的备赛过程以及训练馆里发生的事吗？

We're now going back even earlier into your childhood. You were 10 years old and getting ready for an important gymnastics meet that was going to happen in three days. Can you tell me what your preparations involved and what happened at the gym?

是的，我从小就是专业体操运动员。每周训练四天，每天四小时，周末比赛。我热爱这项运动，全身心投入其中，对它倾注了全部热情。

Yeah, so I was a very serious gymnast growing up. We trained four hours a day, four days a week with meets on the weekend. And I loved it. I was all in in gymnastics. I cared about it so much.

我们有一支很棒的团队一起训练。你知道，我回家后还会在平衡木上加练，就是单纯热爱并渴望达到最高水平。我有幸获得了参加地区赛的机会，有望晋级全国赛。

We had a great group of us doing it. You know, I would come home and get on the beam to do more practices. Just loved it and wanted to excel at the highest level. And I had a chance to do this. I had a chance to compete in the regionals, to have a shot at making it to nationals.

赛前我在体育馆训练时做了个跳马动作。落地时两只脚踝狠狠撞在一起，姿势错误，当时就瘸着腿感到剧痛。我还想：应该不严重，可能没事。试着走了几步。

And I was in the gym training before the meet, and I did a vault. And on the vault, I hit my ankles together so hard, landed wrong, and I was limping and I was hurt. And I thought, Okay, it must not have been that big of a deal. I'm probably fine. I tried to walk around.

我试图走动缓解，但根本做不到。只能停下来冰敷。那种疼痛令人震惊，不仅是生理上的，更是心理上的——我立刻涌起沉没感：我无法参赛了。

I tried to walk it off. But I couldn't walk it off. I had to stop, ice. And the pain was shocking. It was both physical and also emotional because I had this immediate sinking feeling of, I'm not going to be able to compete.

伤得多严重？听起来是脚踝骨突部位相撞，肯定疼极了。

How bad was it? It sounds like you hit your ankles together, sort of the bony part of the foot. That must have been quite painful.

对，就是踝关节中间凸起的那块骨头相互撞击。那天我只能中止训练回家，心烦意乱但决心未改。

Yeah, that bone, little bone in the middle of your ankle that sticks out, those two things hit together. I had to stop that day. I went home. I was distraught. But I was determined.

当时先是‘天啊怎么回事’的惊慌，紧接着就是‘我必须参赛’的信念。接下来几天我们全力处理伤势：冰敷、包扎、抬高，尽可能护理。

So I had that moment of, Oh God, what happened? And then the next feeling was, I must do this. I must compete. So we did everything we could to get it ready. I was icing and wrapping it and elevating it and took care of it as much as I could the next few days.

阿利亚的父亲告诉她，痊愈关乎心态而不仅是身体。

Aliyah's father told her that healing had to do with her mind, not just her body.

我父亲是合气道武术大师，精通意念观想与能量调节。那段时间我和他一起进行心理训练：向脚踝输送能量，在脑海中演练动作。虽然身体不能训练，但思维可以。

My father was a martial artist. He was a master of the art of Aikido and had done a lot of visualization and energy work. And so I worked with him on my mind at the time. Worked with, sending energy to my ankle and I worked with visualizing my routine. I knew I couldn't train physically, but I could train in my mind.

体操的美妙之处在于动作套路是预设的。你清楚每个动作细节，这使视觉化训练变得容易。那几天我只做思维演练——身体静止，大脑全速运转。

And the wonderful thing about gymnastics is your routines are preset. So you know exactly what you're going to do and what you should do and that makes it very easy to visualize. So I spent those few days just visualizing my routine, doing nothing physically, but doing everything mentally.

那个周末你参加地区赛了吗？

Did you get to the regional competition that weekend?

是的。我们去了那里，我不仅成功参赛，还带着那只受伤的脚完成了比赛，并获得了全国锦标赛的资格。

I did. I we went there and not only did I get there, I competed on that foot and I qualified for the national championship.

哇。那么几天后，阿利亚，你收到了关于脚踝的检查结果。告诉我你收到的消息吧。

Wow. So a couple of days later, Aliyah, you received some news about your ankle. Tell me the news that you received.

几天后，脚踝仍然不适。要知道，视觉化训练提升了我的表现，但并未完全消除疼痛。我在自由体操、跳马、平衡木和高低杠比赛中感觉不到疼痛，但赛后...你知道的，脚踝并没有奇迹般痊愈。所以我们去医院拍了X光，结果清晰地显示脚踝确实骨折了。

A few days later, it was still bothering me, know, the visualization had helped my performance but it didn't heal the pain completely. I felt no pain during my performances on floor, vault, beam, and bars. But after, you know, it wasn't like the ankle magically was better. So we went to the hospital and got an x-ray and I found out that the ankle was very clearly broken.

你带着骨折的脚踝参赛还晋级了？

You had competed on a broken ankle and you qualified?

没错。

That's correct.

这简直难以置信。

I mean, that almost seems impossible.

确实，对吧？我们总认为世界是物质的，身体纯粹是物理存在。按常理，脚踝骨折应该意味着职业生涯终结，至少无法继续比赛。但我当时深刻领悟到：肉体只是构成的一部分——虽然是非常真实的部分，不应被完全忽视或否定——但它终究只是一部分。

It does, right? You know, we think that the world is physical, we think that our bodies are physical and solely physical. And if you have a broken ankle, that should be, you know, career ending or at least competition ending. And what you start, what I learned then very clearly was that the physical is only a portion. It's a very real portion and it shouldn't be totally overridden or discarded, but it still is only a portion.

我们的心智、意志和能量所能创造的奇迹远超想象。这是一种我们常常未能察觉的力量，更不用说像我那天那样充分激发它的全部潜能了。

And what we can do with our minds, what we can do with our intention and our energy is incredible. And it's a power that we often fail to realize is even there. And certainly are not fully tapping into it in the ways that I think we can and the ways that I was able to do that day.

在你成为心理学家后，开始研究思维模式心理学，这个术语在我们对话中已多次出现。能否为我们解释什么是思维模式？

After you became a psychologist, you became a researcher into the psychology of mindsets, and you've used that term a couple of times in our conversation already. Can you explain to us what mindsets are?

好的。我们将思维模式视为对自我或世界本质的核心假设。它们本质上是一种信念，但具有非凡的影响力。我们不仅对自己的能力或智力持有思维模式，也对其他事物存在认知框架——比如压力的本质、身体的极限、饮食与运动的充足性等。这些模式如同透视镜，是我们对事物意义或本质的基础假设。

Yeah, we view mindsets as core assumptions that we make about, the nature of ourselves or things in the world. They're beliefs, really, they're a type of belief, but it's a very powerful type of belief, right? So we have mindsets about our own abilities or our intelligence, but we also have mindsets about other things, mindsets about the nature of stress, mindsets about the capabilities or limitations of our own bodies, mindsets about the enoughness of the foods that we're eating or the exercise we're doing. They're perspectives, they're lenses or frameworks, they're just assumptions about the meaning or the nature of those things.

因此你在开始这项研究时发现的一个现象是：不仅许多人未能理解心态的力量，更有甚者，我们甚至没有意识到自己拥有心态。

So one of the things that you discovered as you started engaging in this research is that it's not just the case that many of us don't understand the power of mindsets. Many of us don't even realize that we have mindsets.

我认为这可能是所有认知中最深刻的领悟，对吧？这很令人兴奋，我们可以探讨心态的种种影响——它们如何改变我们的注意力、情感、生理状态和行为。但在此之前更基础的是要意识到我们拥有心态。要知道，我们常常认为自己的信念和经历是对客观世界的直接反映。而你会逐渐明白事实并非如此。

I think that is perhaps the most profound realization of all, right? It's exciting and we can talk about all the ramifications of mindsets, how they change our attention, our affect, our physiology and our behavior. But to go back a step before that is to realize that we have mindsets. You know, so often we think that our beliefs, our experiences are a direct reflection of the world as it objectively is. And what you come to realize is that is just not the case.

我们的感知、信念和经历始终是一种诠释。它们总是通过我们持有的视角和心态被过滤。

Our perceptions, our beliefs, our experiences are always an interpretation. They're always filtered through the lenses, the mindsets that we have.

我想谈谈一些研究，以及心态似乎影响我们的方式。其中一个作用是它们会塑造我们的预期，我们对将要发生之事的预测。某种程度上，我认为这正反映了你在地区体操比赛那天的经历。你对自身表现的预期最终塑造了实际表现。能否谈谈这个观点：心态的强大效应之一就是塑造我们对世界的预期？

I'd like to talk about some of the research and the ways in which mindsets seem to influence us. One of the things they seem to do is they seem to shape our expectations, our predictions about what will happen. And to some extent, I think that's true of what happened with you on that gymnastics floor that day at the regionals competition. Your expectations, your predictions about what you were going to do ended up shaping what you actually did. Can you talk about this idea that one powerful effect that mindsets have is they shape our expectations of the world?

是的。想象如果那天我去看医生，他们说'你的脚踝骨折了，不能参赛'对吧？那会形成一种心态：认为脚踝受伤就无法比赛，会感到疼痛，机能会失常——这就是预期。

Yeah. So you can imagine if, you know, I had gone to the doctors that day and they said, Your ankle is broken, you can't compete, right? That would be one mindset. That feeling of this ankle is broken, you will not be able to compete, you will feel pain, you will be not functioning, right? That's the expectation.

而我当时成功转换到另一种心态，相信自己没问题，尽管脚部有状况仍能完成动作。这带来了'我能完美发挥'的预期，相信自己能登台展现最佳状态。

I was somehow able to shift into a mindset or a belief that I was okay, that I could still perform in the midst of this issue, whatever it was going on in my foot. And that led to the expectation that I was going to be just fine, that I was going to get up there and perform to my highest ability.

能否解释这个在神经科学和认知科学界日益流行的观点：大脑如同预测机器运作？这意味着什么，阿莉雅？

Can you explain this idea that's increasingly common among neuroscientists and cognitive scientists that the brain operates as a sort of prediction machine? What does that mean Aliyah?

大脑的核心目标是预测接下来会发生什么，从而协调身体当前行为为未来做准备。所以我们不是被动反应，而是主动思考：'你能完成这个动作吗？这杯奶昔或餐食会让你感觉如何？运动量足够吗？'大脑在不断计算和评估这些预测。

Yeah, the whole goal of the brain is to try to figure out what's going to happen next so that it can prepare and prioritize what the body's doing now in preparation for that moment. So we're again, it's we're not just responding in a passive or reactive way, we're proactively thinking about, okay, are you going to be able to do this? How is this milkshake or meal going to make you feel? Are you getting enough exercise? The brain is calculating and making estimates on those predictions.

这些预测会向身体发送信号：'如果摄入不足就降低新陈代谢并增强饥饿感'，或是'如果受伤就向全身发送炎症和疼痛信号使人静养'。大脑持续预测未来以便调节身体，为其认为将发生的情况做准备。

And that's sending signals back to the body to say, Oh, well, if I'm not getting enough food, I need to maybe slow my metabolism down, maybe boost up the hunger signals. So I seek out food, you know, if it's, Oh, I think I'm hurt, I need to send inflammation signals throughout my body, I need to send pain signals throughout the body, so I sit and I avoid activity. So our brain is constantly trying to predict what's going to happen so that it can regulate our bodies and prepare it for what it thinks is going to occur.

这自然会塑造大脑的关注焦点——如果你坚信'我一定要参加地区比赛并完成动作'，你的注意力就会集中在'如何完美执行体操动作'而非'脚踝有多痛'上。

And of course that's going to shape what the brain pays attention to if you think I'm definitely going to compete in the regionals and here's what I need to do. Your attention is going to be how do I execute my gymnastic routine properly as opposed to how much pain is my ankle experiencing.

没错。预测处理的纯粹机制是非常合乎逻辑的。它看起来非常合理，也非常客观。就像，好吧，如果我认为这会发生，我就会调节我的身体。但你从一开始做出的假设在某种程度上是主观的，对吧？

Right. So the sheer mechanism of prediction processing is very logical. It seems very sound, and it seems very objective. It's like, okay, if I think this is going to happen, I'll regulate my body. But the assumption that you made from the beginning was in some ways subjective, right?

客观地说，我的脚踝确实骨折了，但这可以有多种解释方式，对吧？这一点很重要。然后你开始看到这一连串的影响。因为我们的大脑无法同时处理所有信息，它会依赖这些简化系统。所以它采用启发法，做出假设。

I objectively had a broken ankle, but there was a variety of ways to interpret that, right? And so that's important. And then you start to also see this cascade of effects. So because our brains can't process everything at one time, it goes on these simplifying systems. So it makes it has heuristics, it makes assumptions.

所以如果它认为，好吧，你将能够表现，那么你的注意力系统就会开始注意到你能够表现的方式。所以我的注意力转移到了，哦，你知道吗，我感觉还不错，对吧？哦，我其实可以用这只脚走路，对吧？你开始注意到那些证实你最初预测的事情。这被称为确认偏误。

So if it thinks, okay, you're going to be able to perform, then your attention systems start noticing the ways in which you are going to be able to perform. So my attention shifted to oh, you know, I feel pretty good, right? Oh, I can actually walk on this foot, right? You start noticing the things that confirm the prediction that you had in the first place. It's called confirmation bias.

它往往会创造一个自我实现的循环，因为你得到的数据会反馈到那个信念或预测中。

And it tends to create this self fulfilling loop because then you're getting data that feeds back to that belief or prediction.

所以在某种程度上，我认为你说的是，世界上可能存在一个客观现实，但当它通过我们的心灵时，我们在某种程度上可以选择如何处理这个客观现实。所以我们可以把脚踝视为骨折，也可以视为没有骨折，或许更好的问题不是问我们的哪种心态最能反映现实，而是问哪种心态在长远来看对我们最有帮助。

So in some ways I think what you're saying is that there might be an objective reality out in the world, but as it comes through our minds, we have different choices in some ways of how we process that objective reality. So we can perceive the ankle as broken, we can perceive the ankle as not broken, and perhaps the better question to ask is not so much which version of our mindset best reflects reality, as much as to ask which version of our mindset is going to help us most in the long run.

完全正确。而且你会意识到，如果你仔细想想，再进一步，我当时能做到那样真是不可思议。我应该继续那样做吗？我应该继续相信自己没事吗？那可能会导致一些长期的后果。

That's exactly right. And you realize, you know, if you think about it, and you actually go one step further, it was like, it was amazing that I could do that. Should I have continued doing that? Should I have continued believing that I was fine? That might have led to some long term consequences.

所以，你知道，并不是说一种心态是对是错、是真还是假，对吧？它本质上是主观的。但关键在于你所拥有的心态会产生影响。它们影响你的预期，影响你关注的事物，影响我们的生理状态，也影响我们的实际行动。因此，它们创造了隐含的现实。

And so, you know, it's not that one mindset is right or wrong, true or false, right? It really is inherently subjective. But the key is that the mindsets that you have, have an effect. They influence what you expect, they influence what you pay attention to, they influence our physiology and they influence what we actually do. And therefore they create the reality that's implied.

这个过程可能有用，也可能没用。它可能是适应性的，也可能是适应不良的，取决于你所处的环境和情况。

Now that process could be useful or not useful. It could be adaptive or it could be maladaptive depending on the situation and the circumstance that you're in.

把心态想象为我们给现实加上的一个框架可能会有所帮助。不同的框架会突出图片的不同方面。如果阿利亚在比赛前拍了X光片，可能会促使她以不同的方式看待她的脚踝受伤。骨折的脚踝可能会让她想到所有疼痛或活动受限的方式。相反，她给受伤加上的框架让她专注于自己能做什么，而不是不能做什么。

It may be helpful to think of mindsets as a frame that we put around reality. Different frames highlight different aspects of the picture. If Aaliyah had taken an x-ray before the competition, it may have prompted her to think of her ankle injury differently. The broken ankle may have brought to mind all the ways in which she was in pain or had limited motion. Instead, the frame she did put around her injury caused her to focus on what she could do rather than on what she couldn't.

重要的是要强调，阿利亚并不是说她的框架是正确的。忽视骨折的脚踝可能会导致长期损伤。她的观点并不是说她在比赛中的做法是正确的。这是一个更大的心理学观点。我们所谓的现实通常是世界上客观发生的事情和我们如何看待它的混合体。

It is important to underline that Aaliyah is not saying that her frame was the right one. Ignoring a broken ankle could have led to long term damage. Her point isn't that what she did in the competition was correct. It's a much larger psychological point. What we call reality is usually a mix of what is objectively happening in the world and how we think about it.

稍后回来时，我们将探讨改变框架的惊人力量。您正在收听《隐藏的大脑》。我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔。这里是《隐藏的大脑》，我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔。

When we come back, the surprising power of changing the frame. You are listening to Hidden Brain. I am Shankar Vedanta. This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta.

这被称为‘地狱周’。它是世界上最严苛的选拔项目之一。如果你想成为美国海军海豹突击队员，就必须经历这个阶段。

It's called Hell Week. It's one of the most physically demanding selection programs in the world. It's what you have to go through if you are going to become a US Navy SEAL.

这是

It's

无休止的俯卧撑、引体向上，还有人对你大吼大叫。心理学家阿莉娅·克鲁姆认为，这是深入了解心态科学的绝佳场景。

an endless stream of push ups, pull ups, people screaming at you. Psychologist Aliyah Crum decided that this was the perfect setting to better understand the science of mindsets.

我们希望研究世界上可能是最高绩效的群体之一，即美国海军海豹突击队员。这些人加入海军就是为了成为精英中的精英。他们需要经历残酷的训练才能成为海豹队员。水下爆破海豹训练（BUDS）的第一阶段，候选人要接受为期七周的高强度身心训练。许多人熟悉这个训练中最艰苦的部分——地狱周。

We wanted to look at perhaps one of the most highly performing groups of people in the world, and that is, US Navy SEALs. So these are people who go into the Navy to become the best of the best. And they're put through a grueling training, right, in order to become a seal. So the first phase of the underwater demolition seals training or BUDS, candidates undergo seven weeks of intense physical and mental training. And a lot of people are familiar with the most grueling part of this training, which is known as hell week.

在这期间，候选人几乎不间断地完成任务和演练，五天半的训练中几乎不睡觉。我们感兴趣的是，这些候选人的心态如何影响他们是否能通过爆破训练。我们早期就在研究压力心态，开发了一种方法来描述人们对压力的心态。本质上，你是否认为压力会削弱你的表现、生产力和幸福感？

And this is when candidates complete tasks and drills, almost nonstop, you know, not sleeping for five and a half days of training. So what we were interested in is looking at how these candidates' mindsets might influence whether or not they make it through that demolition training. And we had been studying stress mindset early on. We had developed a measure to, characterize people's mindset about stress. Essentially, do you believe that stress is debilitating, that it's going to harm your performance and productivity and well-being?

还是你认为压力可以增强表现，提升健康和幸福感？我们发现这种心态是一个连续体。有趣的是，我们对这些海豹队员进行了测量——他们都是尚未接受训练的候选人。首先，我们发现这些候选人普遍持有压力增强型心态，他们的平均得分超过了量表中点。

Or do you believe that stress can be enhancing, can improve your performance and boost your health and well-being? And we show that this mindset rests on a continuum. And what was interesting with these SEALs, so we measured them, these were all candidates, they hadn't gone through training yet. First of all, what we found was that these candidates had a stresses enhancing mindset. On average, they were over the midpoint of the scale.

这是我们测量过的唯一具有这种心态的群体。我们研究过的其他样本或人群——大型金融公司或科技公司的员工，至少美国的本科生——都倾向于认为压力是削弱性的。而这些人是不同类型的群体，他们是与众不同的存在。这很合理。

And that was the only group that we had ever measured that had that. Every other sample or population that we had looked at, employees in large finance firms or tech firms or undergraduates in America at least all tended to have the mindset that stress was debilitating. And these were a different type of people. These were a different beast, Right? They and it makes sense.

这些人选择加入海军海豹突击队训练，他们肯定有某种倾向性。

These were people who chose to go into Navy SEAL training. Right? They must have some sort of inclination.

我只是觉得，如果你连这个小障碍都要放弃，那生活中遇到其他障碍时你该怎么办？

I just think that if you can if you're gonna quit on this little obstacle, how are you gonna do another obstacle in life?

但我们在研究中发现——这是我和前研究生埃里克·史密斯共同开展的——他们最初的心态能预测能否坚持到底。众所周知，特种部队训练通过率极低，仅有7%到20%的候选者能完成。我们发现，这项关于压力心态的单一指标就能预测成功与否。持有'压力促进'观念的人成功率更高，他们在障碍课程等客观测试中表现更优，同僚评分也更高。

But what we found in this study, and this was a study I did with, former grad student Eric Smith, we found that their mindsets at the beginning predicted whether or not they would make it through. So it's notoriously hard, seven to twenty percent of candidates who, start the training complete it, only seven to twenty percent complete it. And what we found was that this one measure, this measure of their mindsets about stress predicted whether or not they would succeed. So those who had an even more stresses enhancing mindset were more likely to succeed. They also showed, better performance, objective performance measures on things like the obstacle course test and also higher ratings from their peers.

这似乎与你之前对高中生的研究相关？同样发现认为压力有害的人表现往往不如对压力持积极态度者？

I feel like this is connected with some of the work you've done looking at students in in high school and finding the same connection that the people who think that stress is debilitating sometimes do worse than people who have a more positive attitude about stress?

是的。青少年群体中，压力体验通常会导致自控力下降，形成恶性循环。但我们发现压力心态能切断这种关联——相信压力有促进作用的青少年不会出现自控力受损，反而可能产生积极影响。当压力来临时，他们会想：

Yeah, what we see typically in students and adolescents is that the experience of stress leads to a loss of self control. So it makes people feel like they're not in control and that kind of spirals down and has all sort of negative effect effects on people's lives. And what we've found is that stress mindset severs this link. So adolescents who believe that stress can be enhancing actually don't have that negative impact on self control and if anything it might go the opposite direction. So you experience stress and you think, okay, this is a cold dark night.

这是成长的必经之路。我可以更投入，变得更强大，克服困难，培养韧性。

This is part of what it's like to grow up. I can engage more. I can become empowered. I can work through this. I can be resilient.

这就是我们的观察结果。

So that's what we've seen there.

听说你们还测试过直接教导'压力提升表现'的效果？在薪资谈判实验中，这种指导产生了什么影响？

I I understand that you've even tested the effect of explicitly teaching people that stress can enhance performance. What was the outcome of this instruction for people who were negotiating for a salary increase?

那项研究实际测量的是生理唤醒评估。参与者在薪资谈判前出现紧张兴奋状态。我们仅传递了一个简单信息：'谈判前的紧张兴奋是助你表现良好的信号'。这个干预显著改善了谈判结果——该方法借鉴了杰里米·詹姆森和温迪·门德斯等人关于唤醒评估的研究。

Yeah, in that study it was actually appraisals of arousal. So they were experiencing arousal or kind of nervous energy before the salary negotiation. And what we did was give them a simple message that said, hey, you know, this, experience of nervousness, of nervous arousal before a negotiation is actually a good sign that can help you perform well. And that simple message led to improved outcomes on the negotiation. This is taken also from work by Jeremy Jamieson and Wendy Mendez and others who have looked at this appraisal of arousal manipulation.

你们还研究了其他职场场景吧？教导'压力促进论'对工作表现有何影响？

And you've looked at other kinds of workplaces as well, right? Where you look at what's the effect of teaching people that stress can be enhancing the effects of this mindset on their performance.

我们制作了看似简单的短片，用真实案例和研究展示压力对生活的积极影响。数据显示，仅观看这些三分钟视频不仅能改变压力认知，还能提升工作表现，减少健康问题，产生多重积极效应。

Yeah, we've created very, you know, seemingly simple videos, films that showcase anecdotes and research and examples, all true, presenting this case, you know, that stress can have enhancing effects on our lives and our well-being. And what we've shown is just watching these short videos, they're three minutes in some cases, not only leads to a change in mindset about stress, but confers benefits in terms of greater work performance, fewer negative health symptoms and other positive outcomes.

对比主流舆论对压力的描述：几十年来我们总将压力视为必须躲避的毒药。职场中人们常说'压力太大需要休假'，却很少有人思考这种压力焦虑本身对健康的影响。

Contrast this research with the way we usually talk about stress. For decades now, we have been talking about stress as a poison to be avoided. In workplaces busy people walk around saying I'm so stressed I need a vacation. Few of us stop to ask what effect these worries about stress might have on our well-being.

所有这些警告和提醒都是出于好意。这很合理，对吧？就像，哦，我们发现压力可能产生负面影响。我们应该告诉大家，对吧？比如，让我们警告他们。

All of these warnings and messages are well intentioned. It makes sense, right? It's like, oh, we find out that stress could have a negative impact. We should tell everybody about that, right? Like, let's warn them.

但当你开始意识到心态的作用时，你会明白我们无意中通过传播这些信息，正在塑造可能无益甚至阻碍目标实现的心态。所以当你得知压力会致命时，这在你感到压力时会产生什么效果？它会让你更焦虑。现在你不仅要应对疫情和托儿所第四次关闭的压力，还要为压力本身而焦虑。因此当你认识到心态的重要性时，可以逆向思考：在这种情况下，什么样的心态才是有益的？

But when you start to become aware of the role of mindset, you realize that what we're unintentionally doing and sending those messages out is creating mindsets that might be unhelpful and perhaps even counterproductive in our goals. So when you learn that stress is going to kill you, what does that do when you're stressed? It makes you more stressed. Right now, not only do you have to deal with the stress of this pandemic and your daycare closing for the fourth time, but now you have to stress about the stress. And so when you recognize that that mindset matters, you can kind of reverse engineer and think back to, well, what would be a useful mindset here?

关于压力的何种心态会有帮助？如果我们能轻易减少生活中的压力源，警告或许有效，对吧？但现实并非如此。我们往往没有能力或条件去减轻正在承受的压力。正如我们讨论过的，若消除所有压力，你也消除了所有在乎的事物。

What mindset about stress would be helpful? Now, if we could easily reduce stressors in our life, it might be the warning, right? But that's just not the case. We do not often have the ability and or luxury to reduce this amount of stress we're experiencing. And as we've discussed, if you do remove all stress, you also remove all cares.

你消除了那些价值观。消除了对你重要的事物。为人父母是有压力的。事业成功是有压力的。成为任何类型的运动员都是有压力的，对吧？

You remove those values. You remove the things that matter to you. Being a parent is stressful. Succeeding in a career is stressful. Being an athlete of any kind is stressful, right?

生活充满压力，这很正常。对吧？所以当我们意识到这一点时，你会问：这里需要什么样的心态？正是这样，我们才得出了'压力可以成为助力'的心态，这与布雷特·洛根的睿智建议不谋而合。

Life is stressful and that's okay. Right? So when we start to realize that, then you say, what mindset would be useful here? And that's how we've kind of landed on this mindset that stress can be enhancing along with Brett Logan's sage advice.

我想在此稍作停顿，强调几个重要前提。说心态具有力量是一回事，关注心态并判断其利弊是明智的。但认为心态能解决所有问题则不明智。诚然，我问过阿利亚，如果我们需要警惕那些好心告诫'压力总是有害'的人，那么当有人说'压力总是有益'时，我们同样需要保持谨慎。

I want to take a few beats here and underline some important caveats. It's one thing to say mindsets are powerful. It's smart to pay attention to our mindsets and to ask if they are helping us or hurting us. But it's not smart to believe our mindsets can be the solution to every problem. Surely, I asked Aaliyah, if we need to guard against well intentioned people who tell us that stress is always bad, we also need to be cautious if people tell us that stress is always good.

是的，当我们进行这项研究时，首要目标通常只是指出心态在起作用。但人们常会过度解读，认为非此即彼。比如'压力能提升表现，就该给员工加压'，对吧？

Yeah, when we do this research, you know, often the first goal is to just point out that your mindset is playing a role. But what often happens is people take that and then they run with it, right? And then they assume it's sort of all or nothing. Well, you know, stress is enhancing, we should lay it on our employees. Right?

这绝对不是我想要传达的观点。我希望人们明白，任何事物的总效应都是实际行动与对其认知的共同产物。心态影响生活，但只是拼图的一块——而且是我们长期忽视的一块。另外，不要急于断定什么才是正确的心态。

And that is the last thing that I would want people to take away from this. What I want people to realize is that the total effect of anything is a combined product of what you're actually doing and what you think about what you do. So mindsets influence our lives, but they are just a piece of the puzzle. And it's just a piece of the puzzle that I think we haven't paid enough attention to. And then the other thing I would say is that don't jump to conclusions about what the right mindset is.

何为正确或适应性强的心态取决于具体情境。可能存在某个临界点，此时'压力增强型心态'确实有效，但这不意味着不该减少不必要的压力源。同样重要的是，心态研究虽然赋予个人力量，但我们也要确保人们不会觉得改变现实全靠自己——仿佛只要转变心态就能万事大吉。

What is right or what is adaptive depends on the circumstance. So there might be a breaking point in which, you know, having a stresses enhancing mindset is helpful, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't reduce unnecessary stressors. It also, you know, I think this is really important, the work on mindsets, it's really empowering to the individual. And that's great. But we also want to make sure that people don't feel like it's all up to them to change their realities because you just change your mindset and everything will be fine.

心态会有所帮助。但现实同样重要。而且，我们的心态源于所处的现实环境。为什么会有'压力使人衰弱'的心态？因为我们生活在这种信息无处不在的文化中，对吧？

Your mindset will help. But, you know, the reality matters too. And also, you have mindsets because of the reality that we live in. Why do we have the mindset that stress is debilitating? Because we live in a culture where these messages are everywhere, right?

因此要从中汲取力量，但也要认识到这不全是你的功劳，是有力量在塑造你的心态。所以我们也需要意识到这些。然后我们需要改变社会中的体系和结构，以期培养出更好的文化心态。

So be empowered by this, but also, you know, recognize that it's not all you, that there are forces shaping your mindsets. So we need to be aware of those too. And then we need to change systems and structures in our society to hopefully generate better cultural mindsets.

我常常发现，了解我们的思维如何运作是一回事，而将这些洞见应用到我们自己的生活中又是另一回事。这不仅适用于像我这样的普通人，甚至对像你这样发现这些洞见的研究者也适用。阿莉娅，不久前你在做一个重要演讲时有些紧张。我想给你播放一段你在TED大会上讲话的片段。

I've often found that it's one thing to have insights about how our minds work, and another thing to put those insights into practice in our own lives. And that's true not just for, you know, ordinary mortals like me, but even researchers like you who have made the discoveries about these insights. Some time ago, Aliyah, you were giving an important speech and you were a little nervous. I want to play you a little clip of you yourself talking at the TED conference.

安慰剂效应并不在于假药片、糖丸或虚假的治疗程序。安慰剂效应真正展示的是我们心态的强大、稳固和一致的能力，在这种情况下，就是治愈的期望能够调动身体的康复特性。

The placebo effect is not about the the faux pill or the sugar pill or the fake procedure. What the placebo effect really is is a powerful, robust, and consistent demonstration of the ability of our mindsets, in this case, the expectation to heal, to recruit healing properties in the body.

阿莉娅，我能听到你在那段视频中声音颤抖。我播放这段不是为了显示你在演讲中紧张，而是因为你在演讲中意识到自己感到压力、感到紧张，并运用了你所学到的一些关于心态的技巧和洞见来改变你在剩余演讲中的表现。告诉我你做了什么。

So, Aliyah, I can hear your voice shaking in that clip. And the reason I played it is not to show that you were nervous during the talk, but because during the talk you realized that you were stressed, you realized that you were nervous, and you employed some of the techniques and insights that you had learned about mindsets to change what you did the rest of the talk. Tell me what you did.

是的，这是一次重要的演讲。这是一个机会，让我能够分享我做过的一些研究，并通过互联网与全世界分享。当我开始演讲时，我的紧张情绪通过声音的颤抖表现出来，就像你在那里展示的那样，我自己也能注意到这一点。你知道，很容易就会想，‘天哪，这太糟糕了，我得跑下台去。’

Yeah, mean this was a big talk. This was an opportunity to get out some of the research I had done and share it with the whole world on the Internet. And as I started speaking, my nerves were conveyed in, as you show there, the quivering of my voice, and I could notice myself doing that. And, you know, it would have been real easy to just say, Oh my god, this is a disaster. I need to run off the stage.

但我在心里做的是提醒自己，我来这里是有原因的，我有一个重要的信息要传达，当然我会紧张。这很重要。对我很重要，我也觉得对其他人可能也很重要。这种‘这值得，这很重要’的感觉让我坚持到了最后。

But what I did mentally was just remind myself that I was here for a reason, that I had an important message to say, and that, of course, I was nervous. This mattered. It mattered to me and I felt like it mattered or could matter to others. And so that feeling of this is worth it, this matters kept me going to the end.

某种程度上，我认为我听到你在说的是，当你重新解读压力，不是把它看作你不足的证据，而是看作你在乎某事的证据时，它可以改变你对它的看法。

In some ways I think what I hear you saying is that when you reinterpret stress not as evidence of your inadequacy, but as evidence of how much you care about something, it can transform the way you think about it.

完全正确。这非常重要。说实话，我走下台时，我知道我把信息传达出去了，但我完全崩溃了，因为我觉得我没有发挥到最好。

That's exactly right. It was so important. And you know, if I'm being honest, I got off the stage. I knew I did got the message out, you know, but I was totally distraught because I felt like, I was not at my peak, you know. I was I did it.

我说了我想说的，但我显然很紧张，每个人都会知道，没人会看这个。我对自己非常生气。这种愤怒也来自于我在乎，我希望这次演讲很棒。幸运的是，我给了自己一些宽容。谁知道呢？

I said what I wanted to say, but I was obviously nervous, everybody's gonna know, nobody's gonna watch this. And I was so mad at myself for that. And that anger also came from a place of like, I cared, I wanted this to be great. And fortunately, I gave myself some, some slack. And who knows?

谁知道如果我在那次TEDx演讲中表现得完美无缺会发生什么？我认为让人们看到工作背后的人性是有力量的。那就是我，对吧？这就是现在的我。这就是我们所做的工作。这就是我们目前所学到的。

Who knows what would have happened with that TEDx talk where I had been perfect throughout all, I do think there's something powerful in people seeing the human behind the work. That was me, right? This is me now. This is the work we've done. This is what we've learned so far.

这很有用，但这仅仅是个开始。我在学习，我们都在学习。这正是我真正期待在未来二三十年职业生涯中要做的事——不仅在学术层面持续学习，还要在个人层面不断成长。

It's been useful, but it's just the beginning. I'm learning. We're all learning. And that's what I'm really looking forward to doing in the next twenty, thirty, forty years of my career is just keep learning on an academic level, but also learning and growing on a personal level.

心态可以改变我们应对职场艰难对话或高强度任务的方式。转变心态能改变我们对压力与挫折的看法。但今天讨论的所有观点都揭示了心态如何影响我们的态度、动机和认知——它们展现了心态如何作用于心灵。在故事的第二部分，我们将探讨更奇妙的现象。

Mindsets can change the way we approach a difficult conversation at work or a physically demanding assignment. Changing your mindset can change the way we think about stress and setbacks. But all of the ideas we have discussed today explore the effects of mindsets on our attitudes, motivation, and perception. They look at how mindsets affect the mind. In part two of our story, we will look at something even stranger.

我们的心态是否不仅能改变思维，还能改变我们的身体？

Is it possible that our mindsets don't just change our minds, but that they can change our physical bodies?

我们发现，仅仅告知他们工作本身就是良好锻炼，就足以引发他们健康状况的改变。

What we found was that simply informing them that their work was good exercise led to changes in their health.

《隐藏大脑》由Hidden Brain Media制作。音频制作团队包括布里奇特·麦卡锡、安妮·墨菲·保罗、克里斯汀·王、劳拉·夸雷尔、瑞安·卡茨、奥顿·巴恩斯和安德鲁·查德威克。塔拉·博伊尔担任执行制片人，我是《隐藏大脑》执行主编。本周的无名英雄是我们的广告销售与分发合作伙伴Stitcher的经理德文·特雷纳。

Hidden Brain is produced by Hidden Brain Media. Our audio production team includes Bridget McCarthy, Annie Murphy Paul, Kristen Wong, Laura Quarrell, Ryan Katz, Autumn Barnes, and Andrew Chadwick. Tara Boyle is our executive producer. I'm Hidden Brains executive editor. Our unsung hero this week is Devin Trainer, a manager with our ad sales and distribution partner Stitcher.

不久前，我们开始收到听众反馈，称他们在Google Podcasts上收听节目时遇到问题。德文立即行动，与谷歌员工协作直至问题解决。经过数日繁琐排查，但我们知道德文不解决问题绝不罢休。谢谢你，德文。若您喜欢本期节目并希望我们制作更多类似内容，请考虑支持我们的工作。

Not long ago, we started receiving messages from listeners reporting they were having problems accessing our show on Google Podcasts. Devin sprang into action, working with staff at Google until the problem was fixed. There was lots of troubleshooting over several days, but we knew Devin wouldn't stop working on it until there was a solution. Thank you, Devin. If you liked this episode and would like us to produce more shows like this, please consider supporting our work.

请访问support.hiddenbrain.org。再次重申，若您想支持喜爱的节目，请访问support.hiddenbrain.org。我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔姆，下次见。

Go to support.hiddenbrain.org. Again, if you would like to help support the show you love, go to support.hiddenbrain.org. I'm Shankar Vedantham. See you soon.