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这是隐藏的思维。
This is Hidden Brain.
我是尚卡尔·维丹塔。
I'm Shankar Vedanta.
在1939年的电影《绿野仙踪》中，一个核心角色是胆小的狮子。
In the 1939 movie, The Wizard of Oz, one of the central characters is the cowardly lion.
他展现出的形象为我们所有人所熟知。
He cuts a figure that is recognizable to us all.
他渴望勇敢，但当他的勇气受到考验时，却因恐惧而退缩。
He longs to be brave, but when his courage is tested, he shrinks in fear.
看那个。
Look at that.
看
Look at
那个。
that.
我
I
我想回家。
wanna go home.
胆小的狮子最终发现了自己真正的本性。
The cowardly lion eventually discovers his true nature.
当人们授予他一枚勋章以表彰他的勇气时，这让他意识到自己其实是一头狮子。
When he is given a medal to honor his courage, it helps him see that he is in fact a lion.
他一直都很勇敢。
That he was brave all along.
这个故事的寓意很明确：狮子一直都有勇气。
The moral of the story is clear: the lion always had the capacity to be brave.
他只是不知道而已。
He just didn't know it.
《绿野仙踪》是一部虚构作品。
The Wizard of Oz is a work of fiction.
但每天我们都能在现实生活的故事中看到胆小狮子的困境。
But every day we see the cowardly lion's dilemma in tales from real life.
那些人们被要求勇敢面对的情境。
Situations where people are called upon to be brave.
有时他们挺身而出，但许多人未能做到，常常带来灾难性的后果。
Sometimes they rise to the occasion, but many fail to do so, often with disastrous consequences.
当然，恐惧并不总是坏事。
Fear, of course, is not always a bad thing.
进化生物学家发现，大脑中控制恐惧反应的回路非常古老。
Evolutionary biologists find that circuits in the brain that govern the fear response are ancient.
但恐惧会阻碍我们过上最好的生活，追求梦想，坚守价值观。
But fear can keep us from living our best lives, reaching for our dreams, and upholding our values.
本周在《隐藏的思维》节目中，以及在《隐藏的思维 Plus》的配套节目中，我们将探讨如何发现内心的狮子。
This week on Hidden Brain and in a companion episode on Hidden Brain Plus, how to discover our inner lion.
有时，勇气意味着冲进着火的建筑，或直面武装的敌人。
Sometimes courage means running into a burning building or standing up to an armed enemy.
其他时候，勇气意味着当别人都沉默时挺身而出，或在本能想要退缩时主动向前。
Other times, it involves speaking up when everyone else stays silent or stepping forward when your instinct is to shrink back.
今天，我们探讨那些生命召唤我们勇敢面对的决定性时刻，那时的选择在于怯懦与勇气之间。
Today, we look at those defining moments when life calls on us to be brave, when the choice is between cowardice and courage.
兰贾伊·古拉蒂是哈佛商学院的行为科学家。
Ranjay Gulati is a behavioral scientist at Harvard Business School.
他研究人们在高风险环境下的行为表现。
He studies how people behave under conditions of great risk.
他深入思考过勇气的本质。
He has thought a lot about the nature of courage.
兰贾伊·古拉蒂，欢迎来到《隐藏的思维》。
Ranjay Gulati, welcome to Hidden Brain.
谢谢你，尚卡尔。
Thank you, Shankar.
今天能来到这里非常荣幸。
It's a pleasure to be here today.
Ranjay，你研究过一位中国高中语文老师的故事。
Ranjay, you've looked into the story of a high school language teacher in China.
2008年5月12日下午，他正在教室里上课。
On the afternoon of 05/12/2008, he was in his classroom conducting a lesson.
告诉我他是谁，接下来发生了什么。
Tell me who he was and what happened next.
范美忠是一位老师。
Fan Mei Zong was a teacher.
当时他正在课堂上讲解一位晦涩的十八世纪中国文学学者，突然教学楼开始晃动。
And he was in the middle of his class talking about an esoteric eighteenth century literary Chinese scholar when the building started to shake.
你知道，当时感觉有点不舒服。
You know, it got a little uncomfortable.
但随后震动演变成了一场强烈的地震，整个建筑都在剧烈摇晃。
But then the tremor turned into a full blown earthquake where now everything was shaking.
范美忠没有犹豫。
And Phan Maison didn't hesitate.
他跑了。
He ran.
他打开门，冲出了大楼。
He opened the door and he ran out of the building.
他实际上是第一个跑出大楼的人。
He was the first one out of the building, actually.
他来到了主操场上。
And he got to the main ground.
事实上，操场周围的围墙也开始坍塌。
And in fact, the boundary wall around the ground starts to collapse also.
哇。
Wow.
学生们也陆续跑了出来。
And the students eventually also come out.
他问学生：‘你们刚才在哪里？’
And he asked his students, where were you?
你为什么不出来？
Why didn't you come out?
他们问他：你去哪儿了？
And they asked him, where were you?
我们太害怕了。
We got so scared.
我们实际上躲在桌子底下，躲在课桌下等待指示该怎么做。
We actually hid under the table, and we were hiding under our desks waiting for direction on what to do.
他们的问题是：你是我们的老师。
Their question was, you're our teacher.
你应该在那里帮我们逃出去，而不是自己先跑出去。
You should have been there to help us get out of it rather than run out of it first.
弗莱马桑毫无悔意。
And Flemaisan had no remorse whatsoever.
他说：说到我自己的人身安全，我是个懦夫。
And he said, look, when it comes to my own physical safety, I'm a coward.
所以我必须先救自己。
And so I needed to save myself first.
这就是他完全合理化自己行为的方式。
And and that was how he completely rationalized his response.
最终，这场地震导致近9万人被报告或推定死亡。
So eventually, the earthquake resulted in nearly 90,000 people reported or presumed dead.
在许多地区，当校舍坍塌压在孩子们身上时，许多孩子丧生。
Many children died across the region when school buildings crumbled on top of them.
关于这位老师的行为传出新闻后，公众的反应如何，拉纳吉？
As news reports got out about this teacher's behavior, what was the public reaction, Ranjay?
公众的反应是
The public's reaction was one
愤怒。
of outrage.
他曾一度被认为是中国最遭人憎恨的人。
At one point, he was considered the most hated man in China.
他们给他起了贬义的绰号，比如‘逃跑范’。
They had derogatory nicknames for him, like running fan.
于是他出来发言，试图为自己的行为辩护和开脱。
And so he then comes out and speaks and tries to defend and justify his own action.
这给他带来了更大的反弹。
And this has an even bigger backlash on him.
作为社会，我们真的无法容忍懦夫。
As a society, we really can't stand cowards.
懦弱是你能用来形容一个人的最具贬义的词之一。
Cowardice is one of the most derogatory terms you can use to label somebody.
这个标签就被贴在了范的身上。
And that was the label pinned on Fan.
他丢了工作，而且这种情况持续了好几个月才结束。
He lost his job, and it didn't end for several months after.
这是一个关于生死危机的故事。
Story about a life threatening emergency.
这件事发生在2023年纽约地铁上。
This one occurred in 2023 on the subway in New York City.
一名叫亚当·克洛茨的人乘坐地铁时，看到车厢内发生了状况。
A man named Adam Klotz was riding the train when he saw something happening in the subway car.
他观察到了什么？他又做了什么，兰吉？
What did he observe and what did he do, Ranjee?
亚当·克洛茨是一名气象学家。
So Adam Klotz is a meteorologist.
他正赶往上班途中，看到几个年轻人在骚扰一位年长的男士。
He's on his way to work, and he sees some young kids harassing an older gentleman.
作为一名善良的路人和负责任的公民，他决定介入干预。
And, you know, as a good Samaritan and a good citizen, he chooses to intervene.
其他人都无动于衷。
Nobody else is doing anything.
他只是要求他们停止这种行为。
And he just asked them to stop doing what they were doing.
这导致他们把注意力转向了他。
And that then leads them to redirect attention to him.
于是他试图通过换到另一节车厢来避免冲突。
He then tries to avoid confrontation by going to another car.
他们跟着他。
They follow him.
在某个时刻，他们开始对他进行猛烈的殴打。
And at some point, they start to beat him up rather viciously.
但没有人出来为他辩护。
And nobody else comes to his defense.
最让他震惊的是，没有人像他为那位老人挺身而出那样，站出来为他说话。
And and and that to him was the shocker that nobody else stood up for him the way he had for the older gentleman.
因此，我们在这里看到勇气与怯懦在同一节地铁车厢中并存。
So here we see examples of both courage and cowardice in a single subway car.
拉杰，我了解到你本人也曾亲身经历过这种勇气与怯懦的鲜明对比。
Ranjay, I understand that you yourself once saw this juxtaposition of courage and cowardice in your own life.
你当时是个住在印度和母亲一起生活的青少年。
You were a teenager living in India with your mother.
她开创了一门成功的生意。
She had started a successful business.
给我描述一下当时的情景，告诉我发生了什么。
Set the scene for me and tell me what happened.
我母亲是一位成功的时装设计师。
So my mother was a successful fashion designer.
她经营着一家公司。
She had a business.
她在新德里郊外买下了一块农田，打算在那里建一座周末度假用的农舍。
And she bought herself a piece of farmland outside New Delhi, where she was going to have a farmhouse for the weekend getaway.
这块土地后来变得非常值钱。
This land turned out to become very valuable.
一位开发商一直在追着她想买下这块地。
A developer was chasing her to buy it.
她说：‘我不想要。’
She said, I don't want it.
我不想卖。
I don't want to sell.
我不想要钱。
I don't want the money.
我想保留我的土地。
I want to keep my land.
所以有一天，我周末回家，一位先生来到门口，要求见我妈妈。
So one day, I'm home on a weekend, and this gentleman comes to the gate, and he asked to see my mom.
他是开发商的人。
And he's from the developer.
我说：‘不行，她不会见你。’
I said, no, she's not gonna meet you.
他说：‘听好了，告诉她这是最后一次打扰她了。'
And he said, listen, tell her this is the last time we'll ever bother her.
她说，好吧，行吧，让他进来。
She says, okay, fine, send him in.
一位穿着西装外套的普通绅士走了进来，在我母亲坐着的沙发上对面坐下。
Just a regular gentleman wearing a blazer comes in, sits down across from my mother where she's sitting on a sofa.
他把一张签好名的空白支票和一张纸放在桌上，说：夫人，您自己填上金额，随便您想要多少。
And he puts in front of on the table a blank check signed and a piece of paper and says, ma'am, you enter the amount, whatever you want.
我们只是想从您这里买下这块地。
We just want to buy this from you.
她说，不，我真的不想卖。
She says, no, I really don't want to sell.
对不起。
I'm sorry.
这是您的支票，还给您。
Here's your check back.
没有任何金额能让我卖掉这块土地。
There's no amount for which I want to sell this land.
他变得更加好斗。
Gets more belligerent.
她反驳道：不，我不会卖。
She pushes back and says, no, I'm not selling.
他最终说：夫人，今天我必须拿到您的签名。
He finally says, ma'am, I can't leave without your signature today.
我必须拿到您的签名。
I have to get your signature.
于是她说：很抱歉，您拿不到。
So she says, Well, I'm sorry, you're not going to.
这时，他拉开夹克，露出腰间别着的枪。
At this point, he pulls his blazer back, and he reveals he has a gun tucked in his waist.
我站在门口，看着这一切发生。
I'm standing at the door watching this whole thing unfold.
我也看到了那把枪。
I see the gun too.
我心里在权衡利弊。
In my mind, I'm doing my cost benefit.
我在考虑时机。
You know, I'm looking at the timing.
我该等吗？
Should I wait?
我该让他去拿枪吗？
Should I let him reach for the gun?
也许这是虚张声势。
Maybe it's a bluff.
我该去叫门口的保安吗？
Should I go call the guard at gate?
我在脑子里快速盘算着。
I'm working this out in my head.
我母亲完全没有犹豫。
My mother doesn't hesitate at all.
她从沙发上站起来，走过桌子，狠狠地给了他一记耳光。
She gets up from her sofa, walks across the table, and slaps him right across the face.
他根本没料到会这样。
He doesn't even see it coming.
然后她说：你怎敢如此？
And and then she says, how dare you?
你怎敢闯进我家，企图欺压我，逼我交出土地，还拿枪威胁我？
How dare you come into my house and try to bully me and try to tell me to give you my land, and you're gonna threaten me with a gun?
给我滚出去。
Get out of here.
他根本没料到会这样。
He doesn't see it coming.
他慌忙逃走，连支票本都忘了拿。
He scampers away, forgetting his checkbook.
我得追上去把他的支票本还给他。
I have to run after him to give him his checkbook.
然后我问了我妈妈。
And I then asked my mom.
我说：妈妈，你看到他有枪了吗？
I said, mom, did you see he had a gun?
她说：看到了。
She says, yes.
我说：你不怕吗？
I said, weren't you scared?
她说：怕。
She said, yes.
那又怎样？
So what?
当你思考自己当时的行为时，拉纳吉，我理解你当时为什么会僵住。
When you thought about your own behavior in that moment, Ranjay, I mean it's perfectly understandable why you would freeze in that moment.
但当你回望自己时，有没有发现一些更深层的性格特质，导致你在那一刻没有采取行动？
But when you reflected back on yourself, did you see some deeper character traits that prompted you not to act in that moment?
我想，也许我自己天生就有些犹豫不决。
I think, you know, maybe there was something in myself where I was naturally hesitant.
我总是在行动前反复斟酌。
I would always deliberate before action.
有时候，我的斟酌时间会比平常更长。
And sometimes my deliberations would take longer than normal.
而我母亲是一位白手起家的女商人，非常自信。
And whereas my mother was a very, you know, being a self made businesswoman, she was a very confident person.
我认为，在她心里，她觉得自己是一个具有实干精神的人，就像许多企业家那样。
And I think in her mind, she had a sense of herself as somebody who had a can do mindset, like many entrepreneurs do.
作为在那个年代印度成长的女性，当时社会非常父权，她不容易被别人左右。
And as a woman growing up in that time in India, where it was a very paternalistic system, she was not easy to be pushed around.
她经常被一个由男性主导的社会和体制所压制。
And she was often being pushed around by a very male dominated society and system.
所以，我的犹豫，我认为是一种深思熟虑的成本效益权衡。
So my own hesitation, I think, was a thoughtful cost benefit.
让我们来谈谈风险调整后的回报吧，如果可以的话。
Let's do the risk adjusted returns, if I may say so.
你知道，我正在做风险分析、情景规划，在脑子里推演各种可能性，我觉得这没什么问题。
You know, I'm doing my risk analysis, scenario planning, working out the scenarios in my head, which I thought was okay.
我的意思是，这本来就是我该做的。
Mean, that's what I'm supposed to do.
但这是一次学习的时刻。
But it was a learning moment.
这对我来说是一次学习的时刻。
It was learning moment for me.
这件事发生后，你觉得自己是个懦夫吗？
In the aftermath of this did you feel like a coward?
是的，我确实这么觉得。
Absolutely, I did.
尽管当时我只有14岁，但作为她的儿子，我觉得保护她是我应尽的责任，而不是让她自己去面对这一切。
Know again as even though was only 14 years old, you know, as her son, I felt like it was my duty and responsibility to be the one to have protected her versus her having to do it for herself.
但这也让我迅速意识到，恐惧会使人瘫痪，有时你必须做出选择。
But it also made me realize very quickly that fear can paralyze you and that you have to make a choice sometimes.
她之后并没有给我长篇大论地讲道理。
And she didn't give me a long lecture afterwards.
她只是说：害怕并不意味着你就什么都不做。
She just said, Just because you're scared doesn't mean you do nothing.
这句话一直深深地印在我心里。
And that line kind of has always stayed with me.
害怕并不意味着你就什么都不做。
Just because you're scared doesn't mean you do nothing.
生活常常会给我们带来需要做出关键抉择的时刻。
Life frequently presents us with moments that require a fateful choice.
我们会因恐惧和怯懦而退缩吗？
Will we hang back in a state of fear and cowardice?
还是会勇敢无畏地迎难而上？
Or will we plunge ahead into brave and courageous action?
当我们回来时，探讨那些将胆怯者与勇敢者区分开来的态度和行为。
When we come back, the attitudes and practices that separate the timid from the bold.
您正在收听《隐藏的思维》。
You're listening to Hidden Brain.
我是 Shankar Vedanta。
I'm Shankar Vedanta.
这是《隐藏的思维》。
This is Hidden Brain.
我是 Shankar Vedanta。
I'm Shankar Vedanta.
兰贾伊·古拉蒂是哈佛商学院的行为科学家。
Ranjay Gulati is a behavioral scientist at Harvard Business School.
他从自己的生活经历以及新闻报道的故事中，见过许多勇气与怯懦的实例。
He has seen examples of courage and cowardice in his own life and in stories drawn from the news.
当他看到人们表现出勇气的故事时，他会问自己：是什么让这些人坚守了自己的价值观，挺身而出做正确的事？
When he sees stories of people acting courageously, he asks himself, what allowed these people to live up to their values, to stand up for what's right?
拉杰，几年前，一个问题开始困扰你，于是你决定用科学的方法来研究它。
Ranjay, a few years ago, a question started to nag at you and you decided to investigate it scientifically.
这个问题是什么？
What was this question?
这个问题其实是：人们在面对不确定性时是如何行动的？
The question really was, how do people operate in the face of uncertainty?
风险是你有工具去评估、量化甚至减轻的情况。
Risk is where you have tools to assess, quantify, even mitigate it.
不确定性就像浓雾一样。
Uncertainty is like a thick fog.
没有明确的概率，也没有万无一失的策略。
No clear odds, no foolproof strategies.
事实证明，我们大多数人能够应对风险，处理风险。
It turns out that most of us are able to deal with risk, tackle risk.
在金融领域，我们正是从风险中获利的。
We make money off of risk in the entire field of finance.
不确定性实际上会激活杏仁核，并引发一种被视为生存本能的情绪——恐惧。
Uncertainty actually activates the amygdala, and it triggers what is considered a survival emotion, fear.
它来得迅速，并让我们陷入瘫痪。
It moves quickly and it paralyzes us.
所以人们常说‘战斗或逃跑’。
So, people say fight or flight.
实际上，是战斗、逃跑或冻结。
It's actually fight, flight, or freeze.
而战斗是最罕见的反应。
And fight is the rarest of all responses.
大多数情况下是逃跑或冻结。
It's mostly flight or freeze.
我没有科学依据，但我愿意假设，我们大多数人都是懦夫的后代。
I have no scientific basis for this, but I would like to hypothesize that most of us are descendants of cowards.
我们的祖先，那些活下来的人，都选择了躲藏。
Our ancestors, the ones who made it, ran for cover.
那些在危险来临时逃跑的人，并没能活下来。
The ones who ran after danger didn't quite make it.
与此同时，人类的进步仅仅依靠少数人——那些勇敢的人，比如莱特兄弟冒着生命危险说‘我要试试看’，居里夫人，以及其他亲自冒险的人，无论是甘地、马丁·路德·金，还是纳尔逊·曼德拉，这些人都将自己置于危险之中。
Now, at the same time, humankind has only progressed by virtue of those few, the daring few, the Wright brothers risking their lives to say, I'm gonna give it a try, Madame Curie, others who personally took risk also for themselves, whether it was Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, all these people put themselves at risk.
我们所有人都是这些勇敢行为的受益者。
We are all the beneficiaries of those bold actions.
你能谈谈从古至今，人们一直困惑于为什么有些人比其他人更勇敢吗？
Can you talk about the idea that from ancient times, people have puzzled over why some of us are braver than others?
有一种观点认为，勇敢是某些人与生俱来的特质。
And one school of thought has held that bravery is just something that is innate in some people.
有些人就是天生勇敢。
Some people just happen to be brave.
这确实是个值得探讨的问题，因为当我研究这些人的传记时，比如阅读甘地的生平，你会发现……
This is a real question because as I looked at the biographies of some of these people, you you read Mahatma Gandhi.
他并非一直是个勇敢的人。
He was not always a courageous person.
在他生命的早期，他曾试图成为一名律师。
Very early in his life, he was trying to be a barrister.
他当时住在英国。
He was living in England.
他想比英国人还要像英国人。
He wanted to be more English than the English themselves.
对。
Right.
然后他经历了一个顿悟时刻，彻底改变了他的人生。
And then he had a moment of realization that changed things for him.
他是个糟糕的公众演讲者。
He was horrible public speaker.
他极度害怕在公众面前讲话。
He was absolutely frightened of speaking in public.
而你却看到这样一个人，后来竟然对数百万人发表演讲。
And here you have somebody who then speaks to millions of people.
所以你会开始意识到，这些人实际上是在培养勇气。
So you start to see that some of these people actually cultivate courage.
你会发现，勇气是一种选择。
And you discover that courage is a choice.
这是一种你做出的选择。
It's a choice you make.
这是你在面对恐惧时做出的选择。
And it's a choice you make in the face of fear.
它迫使你去熟悉当我们害怕时所感受到的不适。
It forces you to become acquainted with the discomfort we feel when we are scared.
让我们来看看勇敢的人会做些什么。
Let's examine some of the things that courageous people do.
你说他们会构建正确的叙事方式。
You say that they construct the right kind of narrative.
这些叙事是什么，为什么它们如此重要，兰吉？
What are these narratives, and why are they important, Ranjee?
所以，二十世纪著名的社会学家马克斯·韦伯曾谈到，人类行为要么是理性的，即审视所有选项并尝试评估这些选择，要么是解释性的。
So Marx Weber, a famous sociologist in the last century, talked about how human behavior can either be rational, which is looking at all options and trying to evaluate those choices, or interpretive.
解释性是指你通过意义和理解的视角来看待一切。
Interpretive is where you're looking at everything through a lens of meaning, understanding.
这对我来说意味着什么？
What does it mean for me?
这种情况的意义是什么？
And what is the meaning of the situation?
因此，这种叙事就是我们如何构建关于这一情境的故事。
So this narrative is how we construct a story about the situation.
这里发生了什么？
What's going on here?
这对我个人有意义吗？
Is it personally meaningful to me?
以及我们在这种情境中为自己构建的故事。
And a story we construct of ourselves in that situation.
而在大多数情况下，这种诠释性的权衡会让我们陷入僵持或逃跑。
And most times, this interpretive calculus takes us to freeze or flight.
但有时我们会感到必须行动。
But sometimes we feel compelled.
我必须做点什么。
I have to do something.
这种情况就是那个时刻——如果我不做，我将无法面对自己。
This situation is the moment where if I don't do it, I can't live with myself.
自己。
Myself.
你提到的一个能支持我们勇敢行动的故事，是你所说的道德追求。
One of the stories that you say can support our efforts to be courageous is what you call a moral quest.
谈谈这个想法。
Talk about this idea.
你提到了圣雄甘地。
You've mentioned Mahatma Gandhi.
你提到了纳尔逊·曼德拉、马丁·路德·金。
You've mentioned Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King Junior.
他们所有人似乎都不只是在进行一场政治旅程，而是一场某种意义上的道德旅程。
All of them, it would seem, were not just on a political journey but on a moral journey of some kind.
我认为我们大多数人内心都渴望在某方面变得伟大。
I think most of us inside ourselves want to be great at something.
我想成为某个人。
I want to be somebody.
我想因为某件事而被人铭记。
I want to be known for something.
当你遇到一个你真正认同的、具有道德力量的理念时，它会提升我们的思想。
And when you encounter something that you really buy into as a morally potent idea, it elevates our thought.
我们感受到一种责任感。
We feel a sense of responsibility.
我必须做点什么。
I need to do something.
在我之前的一个项目中，我写了一本名为《深度使命》的书，书中我研究了初创公司。
In a previous project I did, I wrote a book called Deep Purpose in which I looked at even startups.
它们不仅从一个想法开始，通常还从一个理想出发。
They start not only with an idea, they usually start with an ideal.
我们想改变这件事的完成方式。
We want to change the way this thing gets done.
我们将彻底改变这些客户必须做这件事的方式。
We're going to transform the way these customers have to do this.
我们将完全重新设计这件事的运作方式。
We're going to completely redo the way this is done.
这激励了这些小公司里的员工。
And that energizes people in these small companies.
事实上，当公司变大时，他们就失去了这种精神。
In fact, when the companies get big, they lose it.
然后他们就会说，天哪，我们失去了灵魂。
And then they're like, oh my god, we lost our soul.
我记得很多年前曾与斯科特·阿特兰交谈过。
I remember speaking many years ago with Scott Attran.
他研究极端主义团体和暴力运动等。
He studies extremist groups and violent movements and so forth.
但他关注的一个观点是，我们所有人当然都受到成本与收益的驱动。
But one of the things he looks at is this idea that, you know, all of us are motivated, of course, by, you know, costs and benefits.
我们在生活中不断进行着成本收益的权衡。
We are making cost benefit calculations as we go through life.
但他谈到我们可能拥有一组信念，他称之为神圣价值。
But he talks about the set of beliefs that we can have, which he calls sacred values.
神圣价值是一些在某种程度上无法用成本收益计算来衡量的事物。
And sacred values are things that in some ways are not amenable to cost benefit calculations.
如果有人问：你愿意接受多少钱来换取你孩子的生命？
If someone were to say, how much money would you be willing to accept in exchange for your child's life?
你会说，任何金额都不值得，因为孩子的生命不属于买卖交易的范畴。
You would say no amount of money is going to be worth it because my child's life is not connected to the realm of transaction of buying and selling.
你给我再多的钱，也无法让我背叛我的国家或我的家人。
There's no amount that you could give me that would allow me to betray my country or to betray my family.
某种程度上，这正是你在谈论道德追求时所指的意思。
In some ways, think that's what you're talking about when you talk about having a moral quest.
某种程度上，这把对话从成本收益计算提升到了某种超越它的层面。
In some ways, it moves the conversation from a cost benefit calculation to something that in some ways is beyond it.
当然。
Absolutely.
但我不想把这种区别划分得如此清晰。
But I don't want to make the distinction so clean.
我认为我们在进行成本收益计算的同时，也在被另一种促使我们采取行动的因素所驱动。
I think we're doing cost benefit while we are also doing this other factor that is compelling us to take action.
所以，通常这两种因素是交织在一起的，对吧？
So it's usually the intersection of the two, right?
我不确定。
I don't know.
我母亲已经不在了，但我不确定，如果那个男人已经把枪对准了我，并且手指扣在扳机上，她会不会试图绕过他，对吧？
My mother is no longer here, but I'm not sure if the guy had already pointed the gun and had his finger on the trigger that she would have tried to work around him, right?
我想象着，在她心里，她一定已经决定，如果我有机会，那就是现在，刻不容缓。
I would imagine that she's in her mind, she must have decided that if I had a moment, it's now or never.
正如她后来所解释的，她说他决心要拿到我的签名。
And as she explained later, she said he was determined to get my signature.
他明确说过，他的意图是：不拿到你的签名，我绝不离开。
He had said clearly, his intention was I'm not leaving here without your signature.
所以他的下一步行动很可能是真的把枪掏出来。
So his next move would have been to actually pull that gun out.
对吧？
Right?
他刚刚已经给她看过那把枪了。
He had just shown it to her.
所以，某种程度上，这是一次极其巧妙的先发制人之举。
So, in some ways, it was a brilliant preemptive move.
所以，这些想法在功利性思维和情感性思维交汇的地方产生了交集。
So, these ideas kind of intersect where there is a utilitarian thought process and then there is an emotional thought process that are coming together.
希望它们能够交汇。
And hopefully, they intersect.
但有时我发现，情感会压倒功利性考量。
Or sometimes what I found is the emotional trumps utilitarian.
你会想，不管怎样，我都要这么做。
You're like, I'm going to do this no matter what.
我不在乎。
I don't care.
这时，事情就上升到了另一个完全不同的层次。
That's where it goes to another whole different level.
多年前，兰贾伊，你有一位在哈佛商学院的学生，后来去了Facebook工作。
Years ago, Ranjay, you had a student at Harvard Business School who went on to work at Facebook.
2021年10月，当这位学生在国会听证会上作证时，全世界才认识了她。
The rest of the world was introduced to this former student of yours in October 2021 when she testified before a congressional subcommittee.
这是她所说的一部分内容。
Here's a bit of what she said.
我叫弗朗西斯·哈根。
My name is Frances Haugen.
我曾经在Facebook工作。
I used to work at Facebook.
我加入Facebook是因为我相信Facebook有潜力激发我们最好的一面。
I joined Facebook because I think Facebook has the potential to bring out the best in us.
但我今天来到这里，是因为我相信Facebook的产品伤害了儿童、加剧了分裂，并削弱了我们的民主。
But I'm here today because I believe Facebook's products harm children, stoke division, and weaken our democracy.
公司管理层知道如何让Facebook和Instagram更安全，但却不愿做出必要的改变，因为他们把天文数字般的利润置于人们之上。
The company's leadership knows how to make Facebook and Instagram saver, but won't make the necessary changes because they have put their astronomical profits before people.
所以，兰杰，弗朗西斯·哈根敢于对抗Facebook这样的巨头，一定需要极大的勇气。
So Ranje, it must have taken considerable courage for Frances Haugen to stand up to a behemoth like Facebook.
她不仅仅是辞去了工作。
She wasn't just walking away from a job.
她放弃的不仅是工作，还有同事和朋友。
She was walking away from her career, from coworkers, from friends.
你说她的行为源于一种道德追求吗？
You say that she embedded her actions in a moral quest?
当然。
Absolutely.
我认为，她亲眼目睹了一位朋友因Facebook上的内容而被极端化，她亲身感受到了这一切。
I think, you know, for her having seen firsthand one of her own friends getting radicalized by content on Facebook, She had felt it and seen it upfront.
这不再是一个抽象的概念。
It was not an abstraction anymore.
我认为，这让她意识到自己必须采取行动，无所作为不是一种选择。
And I think that brought her to a point where she felt she had to do something, that doing nothing was not an option.
我们一直有种关于勇气的‘孤胆英雄’神话。
We had this notion of the lone hero myth in courage.
她并不是独自一人行动的。
She didn't do it alone.
她为此思考了几个月。
She pondered it for several months.
只有当她拥有一群真正能推动她前进的支持者时，她才最终愿意全力以赴。
And only when she had a support squad who were really able to nudge her forward was she finally willing to go all the way.
因此，勇气不是一个人的运动。
So courage is not a solo sport.
它需要一个社区。
It takes a village.
因此，你必须精心挑选合适的支持。
And so you have to curate the right kind of support.
她从父母和朋友那里获得了情感支持。
She got emotional support from her parents and friends.
她从一家专门帮助举报者的律师事务所获得了信息或知识支持。
She got informational or knowledge support from a law firm that specialized in helping whistleblowers.
她从即将报道她故事的新闻媒体那里获得了资源支持。
She got resource support from news media that was going to cover her story.
她还从一位朋友那里获得了反馈支持，这位朋友是一位真正的 ordained 神父，他们能进行坦诚的对话，告诉她哪些事做对了、哪些做错了，以及是否感觉对得起良心。
And she got feedback support from a friend of hers who was actually an ordained priest with whom she would have candid conversations, would tell her what she was doing or not doing and whether it felt right or not.
所以，你知道，正是这种多种多样的支持，加上她自身的道德感，让她最终达到了一个必须采取行动的境地。
So, you know, there were this multitude of support that, along with her own sense of morality, that brought her to a point where she felt she had to do something.
在某种程度上，我认为我在你告诉我的许多故事中，也看到了同样的支撑结构，兰吉。
And in some ways, I think I'm seeing the same scaffolding in many of the stories that you have told me, Ranjee.
所以，如果你想想甘地、马丁·路德·金或曼德拉，他们也在某种程度上将深刻的道德热情与真正的战略和战术 sophistication 结合了起来。
So if you think about Gandhi or King or Mandela, they also, in some ways, combine, you know, a deep moral fervor with real strategy and real tactical, you know, sophistication.
弗朗西斯·豪申也做了同样的事情。
And Frances Hauchen did the same thing.
我的意思是，她拥有强烈的道德热忱。
I mean, she had a moral fervor.
她相信自己所做的是对的。
She believed what she was doing was right.
但正如你所说，她在决定采取行动之前，先为自己打好了基础。
But as you say, she in some ways got her legs under her before she decided to make her move.
当然。
Absolutely.
而道德热情并不总是涉及某种更高的目标。
And the moral fervor doesn't always involve some higher order purpose.
它可以。
It can.
在初创公司中，你会看到他们说：我想改变这个市场的运作方式。
In startups, you know, you can see them saying, I want to transform the way this market works.
我要改变这种做法。
I'm going to change the way this gets done.
因此，这种热情可以表现为改变社会、改变市场或改变他人的生活。
And so that fervor can take the form of transforming society, transforming a market, transforming others' lives.
某种程度上，我认为你会发现，在这些时刻被这些更高尚或有目标的事业吸引的人，他们并不是在参与项目，而是被它激励着。
In some way, and I think what you discover is people in these moments who are drawn to these higher order or purposeful endeavors, instead of being engaged in the project, they are actually inspired by it.
他们以一种非常不同的方式获得能量，这就是为什么你在小型、快速增长的初创公司中看到的员工行为，与这些公司发展到500人、1000人、2000人时的行为截然不同。
They are energized in a very different way, which is why the behavior you see in small, fast growth startups of employees is not what you see when those same companies hit 500, 1,000, 2,000 employees.
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你会看到人们的动机和表现方式出现下降和变化。
You see a decline and change in people's motivation and how they show up.
因此，培养勇气可能始于审视我们对自己能力的叙述，但我们也需要收集关于外界信息，了解那些需要我们勇敢面对的可怕情境。
So cultivating courage might start with examining the stories we tell ourselves about our capacities, but we also need to gather information about what's out there, the scary situation that requires our bravery.
你提到了‘意义建构’这个概念。
You talk about the idea of sense making.
在这个语境下，‘意义建构’指的是什么，兰吉？
What is sense making here in this context, Ranjee?
我发现，一旦你拥有了道德热情、身份认同和意义感，推动你想要行动时，人们会以各种方式为自己赋能。
So what I discovered was once you've got the kind of the moral fervor and identity and meaning to move you into wanting to do something, people resource themselves in a variety of ways.
他们会吸收一套工具和策略。
They have a set of a toolkit and tactics they absorb.
我最早发现的一个就是意义建构。
One of the first ones I discovered was sense making.
意义建构是一个经典术语，由密歇根大学著名的组织行为学家卡尔·韦克提出。
Sense making is a classic term used by a very famous organizational theatres from Michigan named Carl Weich.
卡尔·韦奇研究了消防员。
And Carl Weich looked at firefighters.
当消防员进入一栋建筑时，他们并不知道其中存在极大的不确定性。
When a firefighter goes into a building, they don't know there's a tremendous amount of uncertainty.
火势蔓延有多快？
How fast is the fire happening?
它有多易燃？
How combustible is it?
建筑里是否还有其他易燃液体？
Are there other kind of combustible liquids in the building?
建筑里是否有需要救援的人？
Are there people in the building who need to be saved?
我需要在多长时间内做出紧急撤离？
How much time do I have before I need to make a hasty exit?
所有这些都在同时发生。
All this is going on.
如果你在这里进行风险调整的计算，你就永远不会进入建筑物。
Now, if you're going to do your risk adjusted calculation over here, you're never going to go into the building.
他们没有这个选择。
They don't have that option.
因此，他们带着一个初步的假设进入建筑物。
So they go into the building with an initial hypothesis.
他们见过这栋建筑的结构，知道火势已经燃烧了多久。
They've seen the building, the structure, they know how long the fire has been going on.
他们对火源位置有一个推测。
They have a guess as to point of origin.
进入。
Entry.
环顾四周，观察线索。
Looking around, cues.
这里有什么？
What's here?
那里有什么？
What's there?
更新你的理论。
Updating your theory.
再往前走几步。
Taking some more steps.
我应该上楼去找人吗？
Should I be going upstairs to look for people?
我应该去地下室吗？
Should I go into the basement?
我应该寻找起火点吗？
Should I look for point of origin?
接下来我该做什么？
What should I be doing next?
所以这就像小心翼翼地走进迷雾中。
So it's a story of kind of tippy toeing your way into the fog.
这被称为通过行动来获得认知。
What is called acting your way into knowing.
而不是先认知再行动，有时你必须通过行动来获得认知。
Than knowing before acting, sometimes you have to act your way into knowing.
你说，在2011年日本发生重大海啸后，发生了一个堪称典范的通过行动获得认知的例子。
You say that a masterful example of acting your way into knowing took place in the wake of the major tsunami that hit Japan in 2011.
给我讲讲这个故事。
Tell me that story.
那里发生了什么，某种程度上体现了这个观点？
What happened there that in some ways exemplifies this idea?
大家都知道福岛第一核电站发生了熔毁。
So everybody knows about the Fukushima Daiichi plant, which had a meltdown.
就在八英里之外，还有一个名为第二核电站的设施。
Just eight miles away was another plant complex called the Daini plant.
这个设施也受到了同样严重的损坏。
This too was damaged equally badly.
这两个核电站都有20英尺高的围墙，而海啸的水位高达55英尺，淹没了核反应堆、冷却系统以及其他所有设备。
Both of them had a boundary wall of 20 feet high, and the tsunami had crossed 55 feet of water, which had submerged the nuclear reactors, the cooling systems, and everything else.
所有这些员工，大约300人，都冲进了应急指挥中心，试图弄清楚发生了什么。
And all these people, the 300 odd employees, had raced into the emergency response center, where they were trying to understand what's going on.
像这样的核电站依赖仪表和传感器，但所有仪表都失灵了。
A power plant like that works off of gauges sensors and gauges all blanked.
而就在那里，是电厂经理增田。
And in there is the plant manager, Masuda.
田中先生说，
Mr.
我们该怎么办？
Masuda says, What are we going to do?
总部说，我们不知道。
Headquarters says, We don't know.
他们也不知道。
They don't know.
这样没问题。
This is okay.
他找了五名志愿者出去进行实地勘察，看看情况有多严重。
He got five volunteers to go outside and take a do a recce tour to find out how bad are things.
于是他们出去后发现，冷却系统的电力供应已经中断。
So they go out and they find out, well, the power supply to the cooling system is gone.
我们找不到其他可以直接使用的电源。
There's no other immediate source of power we can get.
所以我们必须以某种方式恢复电力，否则熔毁是必然的。
So we need to get power back somehow into our systems or else the meltdown is guaranteed.
回去。
Back.
评估现状。
Taking stock.
另一组人。
Another group.
我们派你们去不同的电源点，看看有没有地方能找到电力。
Let's send you out to different sources of power to see is there any place we can find power.
派人出去调查电缆和电源线的接入情况。
Let's send people out to find out about access to cables, power cables.
我们需要电缆来弄一根延长线，如果我可以这么说的话。
We'll need cables to create a little extension cord, if I may say.
所以现在你正努力应对这个局面。
So now you're trying to grapple with the situation.
然后你开始找到电缆，找到电源，接着说：我们把它带到离电源最近的反应堆那里。
Then you start, you get the cable, you find the power source, and you then say, Let's take it to the nearest reactor to where the power source is.
当他们发现另一个反应堆的温度突然上升得快得多时，他们就开始这么做了。
They start to do that when they discover another reactor has suddenly the temperature is rising much faster.
他们打电话给通用电气说：所有这些反应堆都是同一型号。
They call GE and say, all these reactors were the same model.
为什么这个反应堆升温快得多？
Why is this one heating up much faster?
他们回来后说，实际上这是个稍旧一点的型号。
They come back and say, you know, actually this was a slightly older model.
它上面的编号是一样的，但版本要旧一些。
It has the same numbering on it, but it's a slightly older version.
这就是它可能升温更快的原因。
That's why it's probably heating up faster.
于是他们说，好吧，别把电送到第一个反应堆了。
So they said, okay, forget taking the power to that first reactor.
直接把电送到这个反应堆吧，因为它升温太快了。
Let's bring it straight to this other one because this one is heating up too fast.
所以，你知道，你正在不断进入现场，即兴发挥、调整策略，并在实践中学习。
So, you know, you're going in, improvising, adjusting, and learning by doing.
他们成功地避免了这场灾难。
And they successfully avoided catastrophe here.
你提到拉吉伊，努力将不确定性转化为风险的重要性。
You talk about the importance, Ranjay, of trying to convert uncertainty to risk.
你说1974年完成这一壮举的人名叫菲利普·帕特。
And you say that one person who pulled this off in 1974 was a man named Philippe Petit.
他做了什么？
What did he do?
他是一名走钢丝的杂技演员，如果你愿意这么说的话，是个冒险家。
He's a tightrope walker, a daredevil, if you may say so.
当时，他在世贸中心双子塔之间行走。
And at that time, he walked between the World Trade Center buildings.
此后，他还曾在大峡谷以及其他多个地方完成过类似的壮举。
Subsequently, he's done a walk over the Grand Canyon and several other such feats.
因此，在他的一些详细文字中，他实际上描述了这一经历。
So in some extensive writing by him, he actually describes it.
他说，人们称我为冒险家。
He says, people describe me as a daredevil.
但我并不这样看待自己。
I don't see myself that way.
我非常、非常有条理，非常谨慎，非常小心。
I am very, very methodical, very calculating, very careful.
所以你眼中看来完全鲁莽的行为，在我看来是有计划、深思熟虑的活动。
So what you are seeing as completely reckless to my mind is methodical, thought out activity.
他在进行那次行走之前，花了将近十一年时间收集关于大峡谷风向及其他异常现象的数据。
He spent almost eleven years collecting data on wind patterns and other aberrations that can happen over the Grand Canyon before he did that walk.
因此，你所看到的这种看似鲁莽的行为，实际上是经过极其周密的策划。
So what you see as kind of a reckless behavior is actually very, very well thought out.
换句话说，这是非常严格控制的。
In other words, it's very tightly controlled.
菲利普曾说过，如果我认为自己是个无所不能的英雄，我会用生命付出代价。
At one point, Philip says, if I think I'm a hero who is invincible, I will pay for it with my life.
换句话说，他明白，一旦他超出自己精心准备的范围，一旦他偏离计划，恰恰就是灾难发生的时候。
So in other words, understands that if he actually goes outside the realm of what he is tightly prepared for, if he goes off script, if you will, that's exactly when very bad things happen.
是的。
Yeah.
再举一个例子，关于英雄行为，就是汤姆·克鲁斯，他亲自完成大部分特技。
Now take another example, is of heroic behavior, is Tom Cruise, who does most of his own stunts.
事实上，他曾骑摩托车从悬崖上冲下，然后跳伞落入山谷。
In fact, he drove a motorcycle off of a cliff and then parachuted into the valley.
他重复了六次，直到做得完美。
And he did it six times till he got it right.
当被问到，比如，汤姆，你做这些不害怕吗？
And when asked, you know, like, Tom, aren't you scared doing this?
他说，有两点。
And he says, two things.
第一，他说，是的，我害怕，但我知道自己能应对恐惧，也习惯了恐惧。
One is, he says, yes, I'm afraid, but, you know, I'm okay and comfortable with being afraid.
这是第一点。
That's the first thing.
所以他已经驯服并管理好了自己的恐惧。
So he's tamed and managed his own fear.
但同时，你也应该看到支持这一行动的整个团队。
But at the same time, you should see the entire team that is supporting this effort.
对吧？
Right?
他们是如何为这个任务进行训练、模拟和规划的。
How they've trained up for this, how they've simulated and planned for this.
这并不是汤姆随便找了个悬崖，然后说‘我们直接冲下去吧’。
This is not just Tom finding a random cliff and saying, let's just race off the cliff.
因此，背后投入了大量准备工作，可能比使用替身演员还要多。
So the massive amounts of preparation that have gone in, probably much more than if they'd used a backup stunt artist.
所以，人们正是将看似不确定的故事转化为风险，然后学会管理这种风险。
So that's where people are taking what looks like an uncertain story, turning it into risk, and then learning to manage that risk.
为了变得勇敢，我们需要讲述关于自己和自身旅程的鼓舞人心的故事。
In order to become brave, we need to tell inspiring stories about ourselves and our journeys.
我们还需要了解所面对的令人恐惧或艰巨挑战的本质，并有意识地检验自己应对这些挑战的能力。
We also need to learn about the nature of the frightening or daunting challenges we face and to deliberately test our abilities to deal with them.
当我们回来时，谈谈被称为自我效能的心理因素。
When we come back, the role of the psychological factor known as self efficacy.
您正在收听《隐藏的大脑》。
You're listening to Hidden Brain.
我是 Shankar Vedanta。
I'm Shankar Vedanta.
这是《隐藏的大脑》。
This is Hidden Brain.
我是 Shankar Vedanta。
I'm Shankar Vedanta.
你是否曾在生活中有过无法做出勇敢举动的时刻？
Have you had times in your life when you found yourself unable to do the brave thing?
当你退缩、回避挑战，未能践行自己的价值观时？
When you shrank back from a challenge and failed to live up to your values?
或者你能想到一个自己感到恐惧却依然设法勇敢面对的时刻吗？
Or can you think of a moment when you were frightened but somehow managed to be brave?
如果你有一个愿意与《隐藏大脑》听众分享的个人故事，或者对本集关于勇气科学的任何问题或评论，请找一个非常安静的房间，录一段语音备忘录。
If you have a personal story you'd be willing to share with the Hidden Brain audience, or a question or comment about this episode about the science of bravery, please find a very quiet room and record a voice memo.
两到三分钟就足够了。
Two or three minutes is plenty.
然后将文件发送至 feedbackhiddenbrain dot org。
Then email the file to us at feedbackhiddenbrain dot org.
邮件主题请使用：Frightened。
Use the subject line Frightened.
再次提醒，邮箱是 feedbackhiddenbrain dot org。
Again, that's feedbackhiddenbrain dot org.
几年前，在一次毕业典礼演讲中，作家兼民权活动家玛雅·安吉洛曾说：你可以善良、真诚、公正、慷慨、正直，甚至偶尔仁慈。
At a commencement address some years ago, the writer and civil rights activist Maya Angelou said, You can be kind and true and fair and generous and just and even merciful occasionally.
但要一次又一次地做到这些，你必须真正拥有勇气。
But to be that thing, time after time, you have to really have courage.
兰贾伊·古拉蒂是哈佛商学院的行为科学家。
Ranjay Gulati is a behavioral scientist at Harvard Business School.
他是《大胆之道：日常勇气的惊人科学》一书的作者。
He is the author of How to be Bold, the Surprising Science of Everyday Courage.
拉杰，你在研究勇敢的人时发现，他们刻意培养一种被称为自我效能的能力。
Ranjay, in your studies of courageous people, you found that they deliberately cultivate a capacity known as self efficacy.
什么是自我效能？它如何帮助人们变得更勇敢？
What is self efficacy, and how does it help people become braver?
自我效能这一概念最早由著名的斯坦福心理学家阿尔伯特·班杜拉研究，他试图说服害怕蛇的人去抓一条玉米蛇。
So self efficacy, the construct was first studied by a famous Stanford psychologist, Albert Bandura, who was trying to convince people who are fearful of snakes to hold a corn snake.
有趣的是，在这项研究以及他进行的其他几项研究中，他明确区分了特定领域的效能和普遍的效能。
And what is interesting is, in that study and several others that he did, he makes a very important distinction between the domain specific efficacy that you may have and then a generalized efficacy that you may have.
特定领域的效能是指：我是我专业领域的高手。
Domain specific is I am the master of my craft.
我了解我的任务。
I know my task.
我会完成它。
I'll do it.
我会把它搞定。
I'll get it done.
一般性效能是指一种普遍的信念：我能行。
Generalized efficacy is this general notion of I can do it.
我掌握了。
I got it.
来吧，我不怕。
Bring it on.
萨伦伯格机长将飞机迫降在哈德逊河上。
Captain Sullenberger landing a plane on the Hudson River.
你知道，他当然是一位经验丰富的老飞行员，之前还是战斗机飞行员，但他从未接受过在河面上迫降的模拟训练。
You know, sure, he was a seasoned veteran, forty year pilot, fighter pilot before that, but he had never really trained simulated landing on a river.
但当他接受凯蒂·库里克采访时，她问他：‘那么，你需要做些什么呢？’
But, you know, when he was interviewed by Katie Couric, who asked him, like, look, you know, what do you need to do?
他说：‘哦，当然。'
He said, oh, yeah.
我熟悉教科书。
I knew the textbook.
这个，这个，这个，这个，这个。
This, this, this, this, this.
他说，但还是有一个很大的前提。
He says, but there was still a big if.
他看了看，说：我知道我能行。
And he looked at it, and he says, I knew I could do it.
我知道我能行。
That I knew I could do it.
这种信心，如果我可以这么称呼的话，这种普遍的‘我能行’的精神，成为了我们在面对不确定性时仍能采取大胆行动的核心。
That kind of confidence, if I may call it that, which is this generalized can do spirit, that becomes the kernel of what allows us to then ultimately take bold action even in the face of uncertainty.
我的意思是，从某种角度来说，我们在你讲的关于你母亲的故事里也听到了这一点。
I mean, some ways, we heard this in the story you told about your mother.
我的意思是，她拥有特定领域的自我效能感。
I mean, she had a domain specific self efficacy.
她是一名设计师。
She was a designer.
她一定在自己的专业领域非常出色。
She must have been very good at her craft.
但显然，她还具备更高层次的自我效能感，因为她曾说，即使面对持枪登门的人，我也知道我能应对这种情况。
But clearly, she also had a higher level sense of self efficacy because she said, even when I'm confronting somebody who shows up at my house with a gun, I know that I'll be able to handle the situation.
我认为大多数企业家——我不该说大多数，但很多企业家都具备这种普遍的特质，因为周围的一切变化得太快了。
I think most entrepreneurs, I shouldn't say most, but many entrepreneurs have that general sensibility because, you know, things are changing so fast around them.
而且来自各个方向的意外挑战如此之多，他们不得不如此应对。
And the curveballs coming at them are so many from so many directions by necessity.
但你说得对。
But you're right.
如果我从远处看她，你知道，她的一生始终是那种‘我懂了’的状态。
I think if I look at her from afar, you know, her life was always one of the, I got it.
没有什么能让她动摇。
Nothing would kind of faze her.
我们如何培养这种能力？
How do we cultivate that?
这现在就是问题所在。
That's the question now.
那么，这个问题的答案是什么？
And what is the answer to that question?
因为，我认为有些人可能会说，有些人天生就有，有些人没有。
Because, again, I think people might say, some people just have it, some people don't.
但我认为你的理论是，这实际上是可以培养和成长的。
But I think your theory is that in fact this is something that can be grown, can be cultivated.
首先，这始于特定领域的自我效能感。
Look, it starts with domain specific efficacy, first of all.
你必须成为你领域的专家。
You have to be the master of your craft.
你必须以一种无人能及的方式真正理解你的专业。
You have to really understand your craft in a way that nobody else does.
这应该深深内化为你自身的一部分。
It should be deeply internalized into who you are.
当你超越这一点时，我发现你可以走得很远，但有时你需要外部的肯定。
Then when you go beyond that, I find you can take yourself so far, but sometimes you need external validation.
教练为什么能如此有效地帮助团队？
What do coaches do so well for teams?
你知道，他们到底做了什么？
You know, what do they do?
他们帮助球员相信自己。
They help the player believe in themselves.
这就是自信。
That's self belief.
我知道你已经有了。
I know you got it.
我认为这会成为故事的一部分。
And I think that becomes part of the story.
所以，你也在寻找外部的认同来源。
So, you're looking for external sources of validation as well.
当你为他人而战，当你为超越自我的目标而努力时，这种信念会进一步增强你的信心——我知道我行。
And then when you're playing for somebody else, when you're doing it for something bigger than yourself, that further boosts up your confidence that I got it.
我能做到。
I can do it.
这种自信有时源于内心，有时则来自那些同样相信你的人的外部支持。
This self belief sometimes comes from within and sometimes comes from an externalized source who also believes in you.
一个非常典型的例子是，特定领域的自我效能感如何导致普遍的自我效能感，这体现在2008年印度孟买泰姬陵酒店的恐怖袭击事件中。
A very dramatic example of how domain specific self efficacy can lead to generalized self efficacy is in the story of the terrorist attack on the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel in Mumbai, India in 2008.
那天发生了什么，拉恩吉？酒店员工是如何应对的？
What happened that day, Ranjay, and how did employees at the hotel respond?
几名恐怖分子潜入酒店，并对酒店展开了长达六十小时的围困。
So several terrorists, found their way into the hotel and laid a siege on the hotel for the next sixty hours.
他们在酒店内四处肆虐。
They were marauding around the hotel.
他们点燃了大火。
They were lighting fires.
他们向客人开枪。
They were shooting guests.
他们向员工开枪，基本上试图制造尽可能多的混乱。
They were shooting employees, basically trying to wreak havoc as much as they could.
与此同时，警察和特种部队根本无法进入酒店。
And meanwhile, there was no way for the police and commandos to even go in.
他们不知道该怎么办。
They didn't know what to do.
那里一片混乱。
There was a bit of a mess over there.
有趣的是，没有一名员工逃跑。
And what is interesting is none of the employees ran away.
事实上，那些办公室就在前台后面的酒店管理人员，在袭击发生后不久撤离了，但随后又返回了，因为他们意识到所有被困在房间里的客人都在打电话求助。
Even the, in fact, the hotel operators whose cubicles were right behind the front desk evacuated soon after the attacks, came back in because they realized all the guests stuck in their rooms were calling and trying to get help.
于是他们都回到了酒店。
And so they all went back into the hotel.
但我认为最能体现这一点的故事是24岁的马利卡·贾加特。
But the story, I think, best exemplifies this is Malika Jagat, 24 years old.
她被指派负责一场欢迎联合利华全球首席执行官保罗·波曼的活动。
She's been assigned an event to welcome the new CEO of Global Unilever, Paul Polman.
同时还有一个为离任首席执行官举行的欢送会。
And there is a farewell for the departing CEO.
联合利华的全球领导层都在场，包括印度地区的领导层。
And the global leadership of Unilever is there, including the Indian leadership as well.
她负责这场活动。
And she's in charge of this event.
现在酒店遭到围困，她锁上门，告诉大家情况不妙，让他们躺在地上，并要求大家保持安静。
And now you have the siege in the hotel, she locks the doors, tells everybody things are not okay, makes them lie down on the floor, and ask them to stay quiet.
这种情况持续了一整晚，对吧？
This goes on the whole night, right?
她负责这一切。
And she's in charge.
正如她后来所解释的，她实际上是房间里最年轻的人，但她负责管理。
She's the as she explained later, she was the youngest in the room actually, but she was in charge.
这种情况没有剧本，对吧？
And there's no script for this, right?
她现在所做的远远超出了剧本的范围。
She's now working way beyond script.
她唯一知道的是，她的职责是照顾好客人。
All she know, her script is take care of the guests.
塔吉酒店的宗旨是：客人即神明。
And the the the purpose statement in the Taj is guest is God.
这意味着客人就是神明。
Which means guest is God.
她心中只想着这一点。
And that's all she can think of.
然后在清晨时分，走廊外点燃了一堆火。
And then early hours in the morning, one of the there's a fire lit outside in the hallway.
现在，烟雾开始涌入这个大会议室，他们必须逃出去，否则会丧命。
So now smoke is coming into this conference in this big room, and they have to get out or they're gonna die.
于是她命令两名下属设法砸碎窗户，那些窗户又大又厚。
So she instructs two of her staffers to try to break the windows, which are big thick windows.
他们用椅子成功砸碎了一扇窗户。
They use chairs and manage to break one of the windows.
他们看到下面的总经理，向他挥手，他看到了他们，也看到了从房间里冒出的浓烟。
They see the general manager down there, they wave to him, he sees them, He sees the smoke coming out of the room.
他立即指挥消防员赶往现场。
He directs the firefighters there.
一架梯子被架了起来。
A ladder is put.
马利卡让所有客人先撤离。
Malika makes everybody, all the guests get out first.
她是最后一个离开房间的人。
She's the last one off, out of the room.
现在你可能会想，她究竟接受过什么样的训练，才能在那一刻挺身而出？
Now you ask yourself, like, what training did she have, you know, to carry her through this moment?
后来在接受采访时，她说，我只是在尽我的本分。
And and she said, you know, in an interview afterwards, she said, I was just doing my job.
所以，兰吉，我们一直在讨论培养勇气的理性而审慎的方法。
So Ranjay, we've been talking about very rational and deliberate approaches to cultivate courage.
但你也提到另一种变得勇敢的途径，那就是依靠信仰。
But you also write about a different path to becoming braver, and that is calling upon our faith.
你发现了勇气与信仰之间的什么联系？
What have you discovered about the link between courage and faith?
几千年来，人类一直需要应对不确定性。
So human beings, for thousands of years, have had to deal with uncertainty.
比如天气的不确定性，还有地缘政治的不确定性。
You know, weather uncertainty, you know, geopolitical uncertainty.
长期以来，我们一直相信有一种更高的力量、更高的源泉。
And for the longest time, we have believed in a higher power, a higher source.
有一种比我们更伟大的存在在照顾着我。
Something bigger than us is there to take care of me.
现在我不想立即争论这种力量是否存在。
Now I don't want to debate right now whether there is a force or not.
我们可以就此展开讨论。
We can have discussion about that.
但至少，知道有某种更高的力量或存在在支持我，确实能让我们平静下来。
But at the minimum, it definitely calms us down knowing that there is a higher power of force there for me.
在某种程度上，我会称之为战胜恐惧或驯服恐惧。
In some ways, I would call it outwitting our fear or taming our fear.
因为知道我受到这种更高力量的支持，给了我安慰、信心和信念：看起来危险，看起来可怕，但我知道，有比我更伟大的力量在支持我。
Because knowing that I'm supported by this higher force gives me the comfort, the confidence, belief that, you know what, it looks dangerous, it looks scary, but I know something bigger than me has my back.
人们以多种不同的方式体现这一点。
And people manifest this in many different ways.
你写到了一位名叫乔·伊巴拉的消防员，以及他如何用信仰面对令人恐惧的情境并展现出极大的勇气。
You write about a firefighter named Joe Ibarra and the way he used his faith to face a terrifying situation with great courage.
给我讲讲他的故事。
Tell me his story.
这位消防员在爱达荷州扑救一场森林大火。
So here's a firefighter who is in Idaho fighting a forest fire.
第一天，火势看起来还比较正常、温和，他们正试图控制火势并了解情况。
And on day one, the fire looks pretty okay, tame, and so forth, and they're trying to kind of contain it and figure it out.
但到了第二天，火势突然猛烈爆发。
And then the next day, the fire explodes.
情况变得极其危险和恶劣。
It gets so dangerous and so bad.
他的主管宣布，火势已经失控。
His supervisor announces that this is out of control.
我们需要进入防火帐篷。
We need to go into our fire tents.
于是，他手里拿着对讲机、消防帐篷，还有一串念珠。
And so here he is, he has a radio, he has his fire tent, and he has a rosary.
他紧紧握着这串念珠，因为他相信只要拥有念珠，就能得到保护。
And he's holding on to this rosary because he believes that if he has the rosary, he'll be protected.
他在祈祷。
And he's praying.
神奇的是，就在不久之后，一架直升机飞来，向他们倾倒了大量水，扑灭了大火。
And magically, just soon after, helicopter comes and dumps a bunch of water on them and douses the fire.
在他心中，这不过是更高力量在他身边显现的又一例证。
And and in his mind, this was just another manifestation of this higher power that was there for him.
在他看来，他坚信只要带着这串念珠，就永远会安全。
In his mind, he believes firmly that with this rosary, he'll always be safe.
所以，拉纳吉，你在我们对话开始时告诉我，你一直是个非常谨慎、非常深思熟虑的人。
So you told me at the start of our conversation, Ranjay, that you yourself have always been a very cautious person, a very deliberate person.
你在做任何事之前都会仔细考虑风险。
You think about the risks before you embark on something.
在经历了这一切，研究了勇气的科学之后，你有没有尝试主动让自己变得更有勇气？
Have you, after all of this, study about the science of bravery, have you tried to take it upon yourself to become a braver person?
你知道吗，我觉得和母亲在一起的那一刻，比我愿意承认的更让我难以释怀。
You know, I think that moment with my mother probably haunted me more than I would like to admit.
实际上，就在那之后不久，我决定要主动让自己置身于一些让我感到些许不安的情境中。
I actually, soon after, I actually decided I was going to try and put myself in situations that made me a little uncomfortable.
所以，刚来大学时，我就很早就开始了。
So very early, when I came to The U.
S，我去飞行学校学习如何驾驶飞机。
S, I went to flight school to learn how to fly a plane.
我从未告诉过我的父母这件事。
I never told my parents about that.
但我还是去飞行了。
But off I went to fly.
你知道，只要有个教练坐在旁边，我就觉得没问题，可以安全飞行。
And, you know, it was okay as long as I had instructor next to me, you know, and you're okay flying.
而且，你知道，他向我们展示了如果发动机熄火，飞机仍然可以滑翔。
And, you know, it's a and he showed us that you can glide the plane if the engine shuts off.
所以，从理智上讲，你多少能理解了。
And so, intellectually, you kind of got it.
但对于一名学员来说，最重要的时刻是第一次独自飞行，也就是单飞。
But the big moment for a person training is when you go solo, your first solo flight.
那已经是很久以前的事了。
That was a long time ago.
那是1985年。
It was 1985.
我仍然记得我的第一次单飞，因为我在心里决定，要想象我的教练杰里就坐在我旁边。
I still remember my solo flight because I had in my head decided that I was gonna imagine that Jerry, my instructor, was sitting next to me.
整个飞行过程中，我都在和杰里聊天。
And the entire flight, I was in conversation with Jerry.
你知道吗？
You know?
杰里，帮她起飞，你知道的，呼叫地面控制。
Jerry, props her up, you know, taking off, you know, calling ground control.
我在跟杰里说话，整个飞行过程中我都在自言自语。
I'm talking to Jerry, and here I was talking my way through the flight.
我需要安慰自己。
I needed to comfort myself.
我逐渐意识到，恐惧是很自然的。
I came to realize, you know, that fear is natural.
你知道的，我已经克服了对恐惧的羞耻感。
You know, I had gotten over the shame of fear.
这非常重要。
That was very important.
对我来说，第一步是当我感到害怕时所产生的羞耻感。
Now for me, the first step was the shame I felt when I felt scared.
我需要克服这一部分。
I needed to overcome that part.
现在我克服了羞耻感。
Now I overcome the shame.
现在我得想办法驯服我的恐惧。
Now I had to figure out how to tame my fear.
对吧？
Right?
我正在努力寻找驯服恐惧的方法。
And I'm trying to find a way to tame my fear.
然后我得把它提升到下一个层次。
And I'm then I have to take it to the next level.
我会在恐惧中依然行动。
I'm going to act in spite of my fear.
你永远无法消除恐惧。
You can never eliminate fear.
我无法把它驯服到零。
I can't tame it to zero.
所以我必须跨越从羞耻到驯服再到真正超越的鸿沟。
So I had to cross that chasm from shame to tame to really transcend.
那是我的第一次尝试。
And that was my first foray.
我还做了另一件事。
I did another thing as well.
我也意识到自己在深水区并不自在。
I also then realized that I was not too comfortable in deep water.
我觉得看《大白鲨》这部电影真的让我深受影响。
I think watching the movie Jaws really did me in.
于是我学会了帆板运动。
So I learned how to windsurf.
于是我出发去学习帆板运动。
And off I went to learn how to windsurf.
我花了好几个夏天练习帆板。
And I spent several summers windsurfing.
当我刚开始做这件事时，这对我来说并不太舒服，但我决心要向自己证明。
And again, not the most comfortable thing for me when I first started it, but I was determined to show myself.
我不是为了向我母亲证明。
It wasn't to show my mother.
我母亲甚至不知道这些事情正在发生。
My mother didn't even know most of these things were happening.
但我决心向自己证明，我能做到。
But I was determined to show myself that I could do it.
在你聆听本集的过程中，你可能会想到生活中那些需要勇气的人。
As you have listened to this episode, you might be thinking of people in your life who could use a dose of bravery.
你是否有害怕的孩子或害怕的父母？
Do you have a fearful child or a fearful parent?
是否有总是担心最坏情况的同事？
A colleague who always worries about worst case scenarios?
你是否想帮助他们发现内心的狮子？
Would you like to help them discover their inner lion?
在本集的配套故事中，仅限Hidden Brain Plus订阅用户观看，我们探讨了如何帮助他人变得更加勇敢。
In our companion story to this episode, available exclusively to subscribers to Hidden Brain Plus, we explore how we can help others become more courageous.
如果您是订阅用户，该集内容现已可用。
If you're a subscriber, that episode is available right now.
它的标题是《如何帮助他人变得勇敢》。
It's titled How to Help Others Be Brave.
如果您尚未订阅，请访问support.hiddenbrain.org或apple.co/hiddenbrain。
If you're not yet a subscriber, please visit support.hiddenbrain.org or apple.co/hiddenbrain.
您将立即获得我们所有仅限订阅者的内容，包括往期节目。
You'll instantly have access to all our subscriber only content, including past episodes.
再次提醒，网址是support.hiddenbrain.org。
Again, that's support.hiddenbrain.org.
如果您使用苹果设备，请前往apple.co/hiddenbrain。
If you're using an Apple device, go to apple.co/hiddenbrain.
兰贾伊·库拉里是哈佛商学院的行为科学家。
Ranjay Kulari is a behavioral scientist at Harvard Business School.
他是《如何勇敢：日常勇气的惊人科学》一书的作者。
He's the author of How to Be Bold, The Surprising Science of Everyday Courage.
Ranjay，非常感谢你今天做客《隐藏的思维》。
Ranjay, thank you so much for joining me today on Hidden Brain.
谢谢你，尚卡尔。
Thank you, Shankar.
今天能和你交流非常愉快。
It's been a pleasure to be with you today.
如果你有关于勇气的问题或想分享的个人故事，请找一个非常安静的房间，录一段语音备忘录。
If you have a question or a personal story about courage that you'd be willing to share with the Hidden Brain audience, please find a very quiet room and record a voice memo.
两到三分钟就足够了。
Two or three minutes is plenty.
然后将文件发送至 feedbackhiddenbrain dot org。
Then email the file to us at feedbackhiddenbrain dot org.
邮件主题请写：frightened。
Use the subject line frightened.
再次提醒，邮箱是 feedbackhiddenbrain dot org。
Again, that's feedbackhiddenbrain dot org.
《隐藏的思维》由隐藏思维媒体制作。
Hidden Brain is produced by Hidden Brain Media.
我们的音频制作团队包括安妮·墨菲·保罗、克里斯汀·王、劳拉·夸雷尔、瑞安·卡茨、奥托姆·巴恩斯、安德鲁·查德威克和尼克·伍德伯里。
Our audio production team includes Annie Murphy Paul, Kristen Wong, Laura Quarrell, Ryan Katz, Autumn Barnes, Andrew Chadwick, and Nick Woodbury.
塔拉·博伊尔是我们执行制片人。
Tara Boyle is our executive producer.
我是《隐藏的思维》的执行编辑。
I'm Hidden Brain's executive editor.
下周，在我们的 U 2.0 系列中，我们将探讨如何在陷入困境时重新起步。
Next week in our U two point zero series, how to get going again when you're stuck in a rut.
在任何追求中，真正重要的不是你在做什么，而是尝试多种方法、进行实验，判断主导方法是否正确，或者是否应该尝试一些不同的方式，这才是前进的方向。
In any pursuit, it doesn't really matter what you're doing, but trying multiple approaches, experimenting, figuring out whether the dominant approach is the right one or whether you should try something a bit different is the way forward.
我是 Shankar Vedantam。
I'm Shankar Vedanta.
再见，不久见。
See you soon.
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