我们是如何遇见泰德的 | (S1E1) "试播集"

嗨，我是来自意大利的洛伦佐，我超爱《老爸老妈的浪漫史》。我可以聊这部剧聊上几个小时，它在我非常艰难的时候帮了我，但昨天我又看了一集，当然，我意识到它让我感觉很好，不只是因为好笑什么的。我说的是那种真正的好，就像你听让你感觉活着的音乐、打你最喜欢的运动、吃一块超棒的披萨、和你爱的人在一起时的那种好。

Hi. I'm Lorenzo from Italy, and I love How I Met Your Mother. I could talk for hours about the show, how it helped during really hard times, but the last time I saw an episode yesterday, of course, I realized that. It makes me feel good, but not simply good because it's funny or whatever. I'm talking about really good, such as when you listen to music that makes you feel alive, playing your favorite sport, eating a great pizza, such as when you are with the people you love.

因为当你看《老爸老妈的浪漫史》时，它太有力量了，让你觉得自己就是小团体的一员，仿佛你在第十季，虽然不知道接下来发生什么，但它也治愈了你心里的小裂缝。这部剧的剧本、导演和表演都太精彩了，剧情、笑话和细节让你看完任何一集，在那二十分钟里，你就是快乐的。你脸上挂着傻笑的微笑或一点点眼泪，但在内心深处，你无法抓住过去，但过去造就了现在的你。

Because when you watch How I Met Your Mother, it's so powerful that you feel you're part of the gang, and you feel like you are in the tenth season, and you don't know what happens then, but it also heals the little cracks in your heart. The show is written, directed, and played so splendidly with the plot, any jokes, and details that at the end, you watch any episode, and for that twenty minutes, you are happy. You have that stupid smile or a little tear on your face, but also deep inside, you can't cling to the past, but the past makes who you are.

请允许我告诉大家一切，在纽约市。大家好，欢迎收看另一期非常特别的《我们如何创造老妈》节目。每一期都很特别。那真是太棒、太温暖了。

Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another very special episode of How We Made Your Mother. They're all special. That was so wonderful and so heartwarming.

这是开启本期节目的绝佳方式。我觉得，当我们探索为什么人们如此热爱《老爸老妈的浪漫史》这个谜题时，为什么他们一遍又一遍地看？为什么他们看了15遍？我觉得他抓住了关键。

It's such a great way to kick off, this episode. I think, you know, when when we're exploring this mystery of why do people love How I Met Your Mother so much? Why do they keep coming back to it? Why do they watch it 15 times over? I think he hit on the essential thing.

它是孤独的解药。是的，它让你感觉你有朋友。你和人们一起经历顺境和逆境。是的。

It's an antidote to loneliness. Yeah. It makes you feel like you have some friends. You're rolling through the good times and the bad times with people. Yeah.

我觉得我们确实——在英国和日本，他们有孤独大臣，因为现在有如此严重的孤独流行病。哇。在全世界范围内。它的结构方式有些特别，我觉得手机和社交媒体让每个人都越来越孤立。

And I think we're in a real it's a it's you know, there's a lot the in The UK and Japan, they have ministers of loneliness because there's such an epidemic of loneliness Wow. In throughout the world right now. There's something about the way it's all structured, and I think the phones and social media, like, it's just everyone's kind of getting more and more siloed.

是的。

Yes.

是的，我觉得几乎有一种怀旧感，哦天哪，看，他们在现实中一起出去玩，没有人看手机。

Yeah. And I think there's something almost, like, nostalgic about, oh my gosh. Look, they're hanging out in real like, no one's checking their phone.

我的意思是，手机是——有一些手机，但

I mean, phones were There's some phones, but it's

不是手机。他们并不沉迷于此。他们更感兴趣的是眼神交流，以及如何让彼此开怀大笑。

not the phones. Weren't obsessive about them. They were more interested in in eye contact and how they could make each other laugh.

是啊。而且我们应该一开始就说明，这是讨论试播集的那一集，对吧？我们应该开门见山地说。

Yeah. And they were well, we should we should say, this is the episode where we talk about the pilot. Right? We should say that right off the bat.

对，这是试播集。

Yeah. This is the the pilot episode.

重看试播集时我特别喜欢的一点是——我多年没看了，真的多年没看——我喜欢的是泰德意识到，其实他们都意识到，这故事总有一天会讲给别人听。对吧，有种“我们在创造故事”的感觉。

And one thing I loved rewatching the pilot, which I hadn't watched in years. Literally, I hadn't watched it in years. One thing I loved is Ted's awareness and kind of all of their awareness in the story of this is gonna be a story we tell someday. Right. There there's this idea that we are creating stories.

对，所以这部剧非常自觉地意识到自己在讲故事，角色们也有这种意识。他们会说“今晚我们要去经历点什么”，我们都是这样，然后一起分享。当你面对面分享这些、真正去经历、跑去酒吧、偷蓝色法国号、遇到那个遛五条狗的新女人，和最好的朋友一起冒险时，那种温暖的感觉就油然而生，这就是洛伦佐说的。洛伦佐，谢谢你，是的。

Right. So the show is very conscious of its storytelling in the way that people kind of are. They're like, we're having a night we're gonna talk about, and we're we're all that way, and we're sharing that. And when you share that in person how and go and have actual experiences and run around to the bar and stealing blue French horns and encountering this new woman with five dogs, and you're on the adventure with your best friends, there there is god, there is this feeling of warmth in there, and that's what Lorenzo was talking about. Lorenzo, thank you for Yeah.

再次感谢。

Thanks again.

我很高兴你能感受到这种温暖。

I'm so glad that it comes through to you

克雷格，他们在自我神话化。

that way. Craig, they're they're self mythologizing characters.

确实如此。

They are.

他们在创造自己的神话，就像你和卡特离开纽约时说的那样：‘这是我们人生的一段时光，我们想把它捕捉、倒带、回味。’对吧？

They're creating their own mythology much in the way that you and Carter talked about, leaving New York City and feeling like, oh, this was a time in our lives we wanna, like, capture and rewind and reflect on. Yeah. Yeah?

对，试播集太自觉地把自己当成故事了，我特别喜欢这一点，很后现代，而且主要通过泰德体现。有句台词真的让我眼前一亮。

Yeah. I I it's so conscious of itself as a story, the pilot. I was delighted by that. It's so kind of postmodern, and it's mostly through Ted. Like, there's there was a line that really jumped out at me.

很多情节都让我印象深刻。大部分我都记得，但时不时会有那么一句台词让我想，哦，我不记得这句了。还有Ted，他有一句台词，大概是在说，Marshall，你会在我们的婚礼上讲这个故事。

Mean, so much jumped out at me. Mostly, remembered it all, but every now and again, a line was like, oh, it's I I didn't remember that line. And Ted there's a line from Ted that that he says, like, you're gonna tell this story at our wedding, Marshall.

对对对。

Right. Right

然后他冲进去，在第二次见面时就对Robin说“我爱你”，把她吓坏。你知道，那种“这会成为一个故事”的想法。顺便说一句，这个故事的发展并不像Ted想的那样。那并不是他后来发生的事。

before he marches in to go to go freak out Robin by by by saying, I love you on their second encounter in one night. And he you know, like, that that idea of, like, this is gonna be a story. And by the way, the story does not go the way Ted thinks. That is not what happened to he

他说得对，这确实会成为一个故事。

was right. It's gonna be a story.

他说得对，这确实会成为一个故事。

He's right. It was gonna be a story.

这是个很重要的故事。我有个问题问你，试播集就叫《试播集》吗？

It's a big story. I have a question for you. Is the pilot just called Pilot?

对，试播集就叫《试播集》。有点让人失望，我们本应该……

Yeah. The pilot's just called Pilot. Right. Sort of disappointing. We probably should've

如果你能给它改名，你会叫它什么？

would you call it if you could rename it?

我想我会让来自意大利的Lorenzo来给它起名字。

I think I would let Lorenzo from Italy title it.

治愈……治愈裂缝……

Heal heal the cracks in

你的心。如果我能治愈，是的。治愈，是的。你心里的裂缝被披萨治愈了。哇。

your heart. If I could heal the yeah. Heal yeah. The cracks in your heart are healed by pizza. Wow.

或者他们叫它孤独部长。那是个很酷的名字，是个乐队名。

Or they call it the ministers of loneliness. That's a cool that's a band name.

我想写一首歌叫《孤独部长》。没错。

I wanted to write a song called the minister of loneliness. That's right.

那，哦，你真棒。

That's oh, you're good.

我觉得听起来像一首Belle and Sebastian的歌，回到正题

I think it sounds like a Balen Sebastian song to bring it back

回到Belle and Sebastian。对吧？Belle and Sebastian，如果你在听，就写那首歌，不然我们就……对。而且肯定没你们写得好。

to Balen Sebastian. Right? Balen Sebastian, write that song if you're listening or else we're going to. Yeah. And it won't be as good as yours.

我觉得“蓝色法国号”会是个不错的标题。也许给这期播客用。

I It's like the Blue French Horn would be a nice title. Maybe for this podcast.

哦我的天。该死的。Alec，你干嘛这样对我？那才应该是标题。

Oh my god. Goddamn. Why do you have to do that to me, Alec? That's what it should have been.

我知道。

I know.

该死。我不能回去，我们回不去了。没有回头路。

Goddamn it. I can't go we can't go back. There's no guard.

我们不回去了，对吧？我们可以哦，

We're not going back. Right? Can we oh,

我们没事的。没错。这就是这期播客的全部内容。我们能不能直接说这叫“蓝色法式戒指”，然后假装那是

we are okay. That's right. That's what this whole podcast is. Can we just say it's called the Blue French Ring and pretend that's

好啊。

Yeah.

从现在开始。我们可以追溯设定吗？蓝色法式戒指。

It's from henceforth. Can we retcon that? Blue French Ring.

好啊。所以我也和乔达娜一起看了试播集，她是我老婆，从来没看过这部剧。

Yeah. So I watched the pilot also with Jordana, my wife, who's never seen the show.

哦，我太想听你说这个了。我一直忍着没多问。我想

Oh, I'm so I I wanna hear about this so badly. I've refrained from asking you much about this. I want

知道，你得先

to know you gotta back

倒回去一点。她超喜欢。

this up a second. She loved it.

我们待会再说她。但我也很久没看了。我不知道。我觉得播出后我就没怎么重看过。可能因为某种原因，这集是我看过最多遍的一集，因为我们办过几次试映。

We'll get to we'll get to her. But I also hadn't seen it in I don't know. I mean, I don't know that I went back and watched it much after it was on. I think for some reason, I probably saw that episode the most times of any episode because we did a couple screenings of it.

确实办过。

We did.

然后你就到了广告预售会，你知道，就是我们在那儿向广告商首播这部剧的地方。你会看到一大堆片段。所以我其实挺了解这部剧的。是的。但我还是很惊讶它仍然在我的血液里。

And and then you you end up at the upfronts, you know, where we debut the show for the advertisers. You end up seeing a ton of clips of it. So I actually knew the show pretty well. Yeah. But and I was startled at how much it's still in my bloodstream.

哦，是啊。我也是。我和我妻子丽贝卡一起看，她当时也看了五千遍，因为我们一集要工作好几个月，它就成了你全部的生活，然后一切就开始变得快多了。

Oh, yeah. No. Me too. Yeah. I was watching it with Rebecca, my wife, who also watched it 5,000 times at the at that time because it was just we were you you work on that one episode for months, and it becomes your entire life, and then everything starts to move much faster for that.

她说，我真不敢相信，我对这试播集还是这么熟，能一字不差地背下来。她记得每一句台词。她说，这试播集一定很棒，因为我连每一个字都记得。

She said, I cannot believe how, like, off book verbatim I still am on this pilot. She knew every line of it. She was like, this is this must be a pretty good pilot because I know every freaking word of this thing.

是啊。

Yeah.

嗯，我也有同感，除了有几个瞬间让我惊讶。

Yeah. And I felt the same, except a couple of those moments that surprised me.

那咱们先聊聊大方向吧。你的头条是什么？有哪些东西跳出来让你觉得，我为此特别自豪，或者这是段美好回忆，或者告诉我你的感受。

Well, let's try let's talk a little broad strokes. Like, what were your headlines? Like, what were the things that leapt out at you that you thought, I'm really proud of this or this is a great memory or tell tell me what your experience was like.

我……我是说，我为它的清晰感到自豪。它一上来就很清楚。我记得我们推销这部剧时，卡特和我，我们谈了很多次这个想法：泰德处在中心，夹在两个世界之间。巴尼是他肩上的恶魔，马歇尔是他另一只肩上的天使，他向往着马歇尔和莉莉。

I I mean, it was I was proud of how clear it was. It was like Yeah. It just had this clarity right away. And I I I remember that when we pitched the show, Carter and I, we talked a lot about this idea of, like, Ted is in the center, caught between these two worlds. Barney is the devil on his shoulder, and Marshall's kind of the angel on his other shoulder, and he's sort of aspiring towards Marshall and Lily.

他疯狂地往前冲，以为只要下定决心就能搞定，这就是脱节的地方。一旦立刻没成功，他有时会回到巴尼身边。巴尼就是那个诱人的、把他从光明拉开的另一股力量。

And it's his mad dash and his rush and jumping ahead and thinking he can just decide it and make it happen that is sort of the disconnect there. And and failing to get that immediately will sometimes send him back to Barney. And Barney will be the seductive other force away from the light.

一个相当糟糕的主意。

A pretty bad idea.

一个糟糕透顶的主意。而且我还觉得它很简单，巴尼在整部剧里变得越来越复杂。但在试播集里，他的整个故事只有两个简单的动机，甚至不能叫故事。他之所以有存在感，是因为尼尔演得太棒了，他是个比生命还大的角色。

With a terrible idea. And I was also this but the simplicity, like, Barney becomes so elaborate in series. But in the pilot, his whole story, he has two simple drives. You can't even really call it a story. He has the presence because Neil is great in it, and he's this larger than life character.

但他只想要两件简单的事。这甚至算不上一个故事。他只想要泰德穿上西装。

But he just wants two simple things. This is not even a story. He just wants Ted to put on a suit.

没错。

That's right.

这就是他想要的全部。他想要泰德穿上西装，最后他实现了这个目标。是的。还有一件事，这一点真的打动了我，我为此感到自豪。因为人们确实会争论巴尼。

That's all he wants. He wants want Ted to put on a suit, and he achieves that goal in the end. Yeah. And he also wants and I was this I was really struck by this, and I was proud of this. Because people do debate Barney.

巴尼在今天还能吃得开吗？诸如此类的问题。而巴尼，他唯一的另一个愿望——那一集里他不是在追女人。他确实说了些大话，但他真的只想要两件事。第二件事是，我想让泰德说我是他最好的朋友，这是最悲伤、最脆弱、也最甜蜜的那种——是的。

Would Barney play nowadays? All that kind of thing. And Barney, his other his only other desire he's not chasing a woman in that episode. He's talking trash a little bit, but he really wants two things. The second of which is, I want Ted to say I'm his best friend, which is the the saddest and most vulnerable and sweetest kind of Yeah.

动力。他只是想知道自己对泰德很重要，这让泰德对观众也变得重要。而且，马歇尔和莉莉就像泰德的父母。你知道吗？他们同龄，但他们坐在家里的沙发上等着问：儿子，今晚出去怎么样？

Drive. He just wants to know he's important to Ted, which makes Ted important to the audience. And to and and Marshall and Lily are like Ted's parents. You know? They're the same age, but they're home on the couch waiting to hear, how was your night out, son?

是的。所以他是他们的儿子，他对他们来说就像儿子一样重要。而对巴尼来说，巴尼想让他成为自己的兄弟，巴尼想要独占泰德。他嫉妒马歇尔——我是说，马歇尔是泰德最好的朋友。这不是可能。

Yeah. And so he's their son, and he's important to them like he's their son. And to Barney, Barney wants him to be his brother, and Barney wants sole ownership over Ted. He's so jealous of Marshall probably I mean, Marshall being Ted's best friend. It's not probably.

他知道。这让巴尼快疯了——是的。马歇尔是我——我一直很喜欢最后一次。

He knows. It drives Barney so crazy that Yeah. Marshall's I mean, I always liked that last time.

我一直很喜欢他们把泰德当成某种奖品一样的挚友来争抢——是的——我一直觉得那很甜蜜。尤其是，从某种奇怪的角度看，那是巴尼最——他最脆弱的时刻，就是当他恳求泰德宣布他是最好的朋友时。

I always liked that they fought over Ted as this kind of, like, a prize trophy friend that he Yeah. That that always I always thought that was very sweet. Especially, it's where, in a weird way, you see Barney's most like, at the his most vulnerable is when he's pleading for Ted to declare him his best friend.

他在试播集里说了好几次。我是你最好的朋友，山姆。我是你最好的朋友。就像——天啊，我为这个角色的登场感到骄傲，因为那才是他真正的样子。他是脆弱的。

He says it multiple times in the pilot. I'm your best friend, Sam. I'm your best friend. And just like, it's so man, I'm I'm proud of that launch of that character because that's who he is. He's vulnerable.

他有点破碎，而且——他很需要人。泰德是那个计划狂，总是提前太多。马歇尔和莉莉刚订婚。现在轮到我了。这就是计划。

He's a little broken, and he he's needy. Ted is the planner getting way ahead of himself. Marshall and Lily just got engaged. Now it's my turn. That's the plan.

他们的计划真是精准得像穿针一样。现在轮到我了，所以今晚就会发生。而马歇尔和莉莉就像一对老夫老妻，和他们看起来年轻二十岁的同龄人互动，太明显了。有三条主线在并行，然后罗宾是后来加进来的第四条线。

The plan, they got they thread the needle on that. Now it's my turn, so it's gonna happen tonight. And Marshall and Lily are this old married couple interacting with, like, you know, their peers who seem twenty years younger than them. It's so clear. There are kind of these three tracks going, and then Robin is this fourth track that gets added.

我对整个结构的清晰度感到非常自豪。

I was I was very proud of the clarity of the thing.

在纽约市。我们马上回来。现在回到节目。而且，当你想到每个角色的起源故事时，会觉得很有趣——哪一季哪一集是《我们如何认识其他人》或者《我如何认识其他人》？

In New York City. We'll be right back. And now back to the show. Also, it's funny when you consider the origin story of each character, which then what what episode what season was How We Met Everyone Else or How I Met Everyone Else?

《我们如何认识其他人》是第三季第五集。

How We Met Everyone Else is season three episode five.

那是一集很棒的剧集。

That's a great episode.

是啊，我很喜欢那一集。

Yeah. I love that one.

我觉得有趣的是，比如，泰德和马歇尔是大一室友，这很清晰——不是显而易见，但确实是一种认识好朋友，或者敌人的方式。

And what's funny to me is, like, well, Ted and Marshall were freshman roommates. That's, a very clear Yeah. Kind of not obvious, but it's a way one meets a good friend possibly or an enemy.

是啊。

Yeah.

巴尼是在酒吧的小便池旁开始跟泰德搭话，然后滑进一个卡座，开始试图改变他的整个风格。这真的很奇怪——他就是硬生生挤进这个家伙的生活。

Barney started talking to Ted at a urinal at a bar and then slides into a booth and starts trying to change his whole style. Like, it's a very strange he he just muscles his way into this guy's life.

他一向如此，太强势了。

He usually does. It's so aggressive.

我们现在要成为朋友了。我会改变你的穿着和搭讪女人的方式。我觉得巴尼把他当成一个项目，但不仅如此，他更像是，我想跟这家伙混。我觉得这很可爱也很奇怪，为什么大家总是抢着要泰德？他们都想靠近这个人，这一点我一直很喜欢。

We're gonna be friends now. I'm gonna change how you dress and how you approach women. And I just think he saw him as a project, but more than that, he was like, I I wanna roll with this guy. Like, I thought there was something lovely and weird about, like, why was everyone always fighting over Ted? Like, they wanted they wanted to be close to this guy, which I always liked.

我喜欢。你在试播集里就能立刻感受到。天使和恶魔两边都想要泰德。对，泰德真的很想站在某一边，但他也被夹在中间。

I love it. And you feel you feel it right away in the in the pilot. And you feel the angel side and the devil side both want Ted. Yeah. Ted really wants to be on one side, but he's also cut.

你们万圣节那天真的开了那个玩笑，对吧？巴尼不是

You did that joke on Halloween literally. Right? Didn't Barney

对，我们打扮成那样，是因为我们说，把我们推销这部剧的方式直接演出来。我喜欢这个，因为这就是我们当初推销这部剧的方式。你知道，因为我和我妻子有点像马歇尔和米莉。我们，还有卡特，都是大学认识的。

Yeah. Dress as a We did that because it because we said, let's make literal how we pitch the show. I like that because it's really how we pitched the show. We said, you know, because there was my wife and I were kinda like Marshall and Millie. We and Carter all went to college together.

我们在大学认识。后来我在纽约二十多岁时，卡特是那个单身到处玩、凌晨三点还在外面嗨的家伙。而我有时候会在纽约州北部的一家民宿里，和六十多岁的人拼字游戏。我们偶尔会想，我们老了，我们让自己老得飞快。

We met in college. And then I was in New York City in our twenties, and Carter was, like, the single guy going out and having fun and, like, being out till three in the morning. And I was, like, sometimes at, like, a bed and breakfast upstate in Upstate New York in my twenties with, like, people in their sixties, like, playing Scrabble. And every now and again, we were, this is we're getting old. We're making ourselves really old really fast.

这本身就很好笑。我会收到这些家伙的电话和短信，那些深夜节目编剧都在外面度过传奇夜晚。偶尔我会想，有点希望我也在外面。我们让马歇尔也演了一点这种心态。但泰德就想待在民宿里拼字游戏。

And that just seemed funny. And I would I'd be getting, like, calls and texts and stuff from these guys, these late show writers that were all out having these legendary nights. And then it'd be like, every now and again, I'd be like, kinda wish I was out there. I mean, we played that with Marshall a little bit. And but Ted wants to be where Ted wants to be doing Scrabble at the bed and breakfast.

这种动态很有趣，而且立刻就能感受到。马歇尔和莉莉希望泰德找到那个女人。我们整集都在讲这个，前廊测试，对吧？我们想一起在前廊变老，拼字游戏，喝柠檬水

It's just a funny dynamic, and it it feels like that's immediately there. Marshall and Lily want Ted to find that woman. We did a whole episode about that, the front porch test. Right? We wanna be growing old on a front porch playing Scrabble, drinking lemonade

对。

Yeah.

在前廊喝冰茶，和泰德以及那个待定女人一起。但巴尼想尽一切办法阻止这件事发生。

Iced tea on the front porch with Ted and whoever this TBD woman's gonna be. But Barney wants to do everything to keep that from happening.

试播集里还有很多，其实贯穿整部剧，都在讲你多大了，以及在你这个年龄做什么事才算合适。泰德在试播集里就纠结自己27岁，他们本来计划30岁才订婚。就像个武断的规定，30岁之前谁都不准订婚。结果马歇尔打乱整个计划，把泰德扔进存在主义危机。对。

There's also a lot about in the pilot, especially, but kind of really baked into the show is how old you are and what's almost, like, appropriate for you to be doing at what age. Like, Ted is obsessed in the pilot that he's 27, and they weren't supposed to get engaged until they were 30. It's like this arbitrary thing, like, no one getting engaged till they're 30. And and Marshall throws the whole plan off, and then it it throws Ted into an existential crisis. And Yeah.

但即使，你知道，有时候也会操之过急，比如你不想在民宿里玩拼字游戏。那种事迟早会发生。别急着赶进度。我觉得泰德的生活节奏特别快，他总担心自己已经远远落后了，现在想起来挺搞笑的，一个27岁的单身男在纽约为了这种事抓狂。

But even, you you know, sometimes getting out over your skis in terms of, like, you don't wanna be at the bed and breakfast playing Scrabble. Like, that's gonna happen soon enough. Like, don't rush it. I think there's something Ted has such a, like, a motor on his life that is going, and he's like, he he's worried he's falling far behind, which is kind of hilarious to think about nowadays, like a 27 year old single guy in New York City freaking out about that.

我的天啊。

Oh my god.

那时候我就觉得有点怪，现在更怪了。

Like, I think it was a little weird then, but it's even weirder now.

太奇怪了。我们差不多50岁了，看着这个27岁的人说“我全都计划好了”，然后“我得等到30岁”，你就想，天啊。

It's so weird. It's so weird being like, we're basically, like, 50 and, like, looking at this 27 year old being, like, I got it all planned out. And, like, I yeah. I gotta wait till I'm 30. And you're like, Jesus.

更别说你们看起来都像个孩子。我们——镜头外的卡特和我——当时也像小孩。所以，回头看试播集里的自己，用现在的眼光去审视，会不会让你回到那一刻，觉得“那是另一个我”？确实会。

And never mind the fact that you also looked like such kids, all of you. It's so which might be also just off camera, we looked like children as well, Carter and I. And it's it was I mean, what what did it feel like to you to look back and, like, see pilot you and be sort of assessing it through now through these eyes and just be looking at this did did it bring you back to that moment of being like, this was a different me? You know, it did.

哦，我是说，第一，我留胡子太久了，看到自己的脸都觉得奇怪。我记得那个家伙，我记得他。他不太像我，或者说他像是我某个奇怪的化身，或者是我某个版本，嗯。

Oh, I mean, one, haven't I've had a beard for so long. It was, like, weird to see my face. I I remember that guy. Like, I remember that guy. He doesn't exactly feel like me, or he feels like a some weird avatar of me or some iteration of me that is Yeah.

但我说得很委婉，我不想这听起来像在自怨自艾。随着剧集播出，我意识到有很多人喜欢Ted，但也有不少人，嗯，有些黑子。对吧？而我当时刚成名。

Not quite around. But I was struck, and I I I say this very delicately, and I and I don't want this to come off as self agonizing. Like, I was aware as the show went on that there was a lot of love for Ted, but there was also, like, a lot of some there were some haters. Right? And I was new to to fame.

我还不习惯每周都出现在别人家里。而且我是个敏感的人，脸皮挺薄的。我觉得我并不孤单，你也知道，嗯。

I was new to being seen every week in people's homes. So I and I'm and I'm a sensitive person. Like, I'm pretty thin skinned. I'm not I don't think I'm alone in that. Like, you know Yeah.

被喷或者被……我并没有遭受什么史诗级的辱骂，但我想我在整个系列过程中都觉得自己知道这里我擅长什么。嗯。我也知道有时Ted的古怪会惹恼别人之类的。但我回看试播集时，真的觉得自己演得很好。

Getting trolled or getting you know? And I didn't get I didn't get abused in, a, you know, some sort of epic way, but I I I I think I went through the series feeling I know what I'm good at here. Yeah. And I also know that sometimes Ted's eccentricities annoy people or whatever. But I watched the pilot, and I was struck by the fact that I thought I was really good in it.

希望这么说没问题。你确实演得好。我觉得这个角色有很高的难度系数，对吧？

And I hope it's okay to say that. You were. I I I thought there was a job to do with this guy that was Yeah. That was kind of a high level of difficulty. Right?

就是，像

To be, like

非常高。

Very high.

嗯。那种吸引人的中心、迷人的核心，要成为观众的眼睛和耳朵，同时也要充满激情、相思、向前，你知道，不断前进。是的。就像，这是一个很高的要求，我想，你知道吗？你真的——你做得不错。

Yeah. The the kind of engaging center, charming center of the show to be the eyes and ears for the audience, but also to be passionate and lovesick and forward, you know, moving. Yeah. Like, there was a it was a big ask, and I thought, you know what? You did really you did a good job.

就像，几乎在对更年轻的自己说，你对自己太苛刻了。

Like, it was almost like telling a younger part of me that you were really hard on yourself.

嗯。而且你确实

Yeah. And you did a

做得很好。

great job.

你知道吗？这就是这个播客的一点意义。我希望人们能听到并思考这一点。真的想一想，花了你二十年才回头看并说出这句话。

You know? This is this is what this podcast is a little bit. Like, I hope people can hear that and think about that. Like, really think about that that it's taken on twenty years for you to look back and say that.

几乎就像大多数高中生都很没有安全感，大多数高中生都在看着自己，你知道，三年前你看起来完全是另一个人，你在适应这个新的身体、新的声音、新的体毛，就像，你的身体在变化，对每个人来说，这都是一个非常令人震惊的经历。然后你回头看照片，你会想，你知道吗，我们其实挺好看的年轻孩子。我们对自己太苛刻了，对吧？

It's almost like most high schoolers, like, are pretty insecure, and most high schoolers are kind of looking at themselves and, you know, three years earlier, you looked like a totally different person, and you're adapting to this new body and this new voice and new new new body hair and like, your body is changing for everyone. And and it's a very startling, experience. And then you look back on pictures and you're like, you know, we were pretty, like, attractive young kids. Like, we were really hard on ourselves. Right?

嗯。嗯。

Yeah. Yeah.

嗯。我看试播集时就是这种感觉。就像，天哪，我对自己太苛刻了。

Yeah. That's how I felt watching the pilot. Like, man, I was so hard on myself.

看起来不错。

Looked fine.

我看起来像个合群的人。你知道吗？我看起来像个属于电视的人。你知道吗？

I looked I looked like a guy who belonged. You know? I looked like a guy who belonged on the on the TV. You know?

感觉你在那个角色里非常自信，非常、非常自信。我的意思是，部分原因也是泰德在那部试播集里地位很高。每个人都希望泰德得到最好的。每个人都想得到关注。

Felt like you were so self assured in the role and very, very confident. Mean, I some some of that was also that Ted's high status in that pilot. Everyone wants what's best for Ted. Everyone wants attention.

你们写进去了，我们会反复剖析，所以我就不多说了。但你们写进去的一件事——也是我在第一季挣扎的一件事——我记得跟你们和卡特谈过，就是有一集，比如“鼓声请响”，泰德绝对是英雄。他是浪漫英雄，被塑造成英雄形象，观众应该为他加油。紧接着下一集，我觉得是他给阿什利做了混音带之类的。就是很傻的事，那时候我感觉到有种邀请观众去嘲笑他。

You guys wrote in, and we're gonna unpack this, like, ad nauseam, so I don't wanna get too much into it. But you wrote in some one of the things that I struggled with the first season, and I remember talking to you and Carter about this, is there'd be an episode like drum roll, please, where Ted was absolutely the hero. He was the romantic hero, and he was held up and almost shot in a heroic way, and you were supposed to be rooting for him. The very next episode, I think it was, like, he made, like, the mixtape for, Ashley maybe or something. Like, it was something so silly, and it was like I could tell that there was an invitation then to make fun of him.

对。我记得跟你们说，我从“我是英雄”到“我是个可笑的人”来回切换，我都快得 whip 鞭子了。所以这是我想谈的事，这是我想

Right. And I remember saying to you guys, I'm getting whiplash going from like, I'm a hero to I'm a ridiculous person to be ridiculed. So I it's a it's a thing I wanna talk about. It's a thing I wanna

谈的事。我的意思是，这是非常——我不是说

talk about. I mean, it's a very I'm not saying

我想演的是像杰克·鲍尔那种，永远是情景喜剧英雄。我不是那个意思。但我确实觉得，在试播集里，尽管泰德有缺点，他有一种英雄旅程的势头，你在为他加油，我确实觉得——我们可以待会儿再谈——但我特别希望他跟罗宾在一起，当他穿着西装上楼。那在黄金时段来说真的很性感，就他们看彼此的眼神。

I wanted to play, like, Jack Bauer or someone, like, who is just always, like, a hero of the sitcom. That's not what I'm saying. But I did I do feel in the pilot, even though Ted has his foibles, he has the kind of hero's journey momentum you're you're rooting for him, which I did find I do we can talk about this in a second, but, like, I was so into him being with Robin when he goes up in the suit. And it's really quite sexy for prime time just in terms of like the way they're looking at each other.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像，真的有卧室眼神，真的有那种——是啊。当他说“我想我爱上你了”，我明知道会这样，但那一刻我几乎像巴尼、马歇尔和莉莉一样：什么？！这步棋太糟糕了。当然，它开启了整个系列，所以必须发生。但时机和判断都太差了。

Like, there's real bedroom eyes and there's real like Yeah. And the moment he's I knew it was coming, but the moment he says, I think I'm in love with you, I almost was like like, Barney Marshall and Lily, like, what? Like, it was such a bad move. And of course, it sets off the entire series, so it needed to happen. But it was such a a a an ill timed, ill informed move.

所以我其实被那幕击垮了，我当时想：好吧，这试播集奏效了。如果你真的因为他搞砸了而生气，我——

So I was actually crushed by that in a way that I was like, okay, this pilot's working. Like, if you're if you're mad at him for ruining I

我觉得这部剧早早就立下了flag，不只是那种“半小时一切都说得通”的剧。对，CBS上在我们前后播出的八点档，以及之后的剧，都是那种轻松简单、一看就懂的喜剧。我们就像那个网络上的异类，这点很难跟别人解释，但在试播集里我就为此感到自豪。

think the show kind of called it shot so early to not just be like, this is the it all makes sense half hour. Right. It's like the other things at eight at the the show right before us on CBS and the show right after us are that. And the show after that, all the other shows were that because they were these sort of, like, goes down easy kind of, like, simple comedies. And our that was what that's the thing that's so hard to explain to people because we were this weird black sheep on that network, but we call that was the other thing I was proud of in that pilot.

我们当时就立了flag。那一刻，乔什说“我爱你”，然后你切到——你跳到三个不同时间线，大家都在说“什么”。你跳到——我是说，你让罗宾说“什么”，你跳到二十五年后未来的孩子们说“什么”，你还跳到未来的小团体都说“什么”？对吧？

We called our shot. Like, that moment, Josh, where he says, love you, and you cut to you time jump to three different timelines of people saying what. You jump to I mean, you have Robin say what. You jump to the future kids twenty five years in the future saying what, And you also jump to the future group all saying what? Right?

一边听故事，一边被讲述那个领袖的故事。砰砰砰，十秒内，三个时间线，其中一个直接跳到二十五年后。是啊，我重看试播集时，那可能是我最喜欢的瞬间。

Being told the story, like, be being told told the story of that leader. And that's boom boom boom in, like, ten seconds. There's three timelines, one of which is literally twenty five years in the future. Yeah. And I I that was, like, maybe my favorite moment rewatching

试播集，我当时就想，对。

the pilot because I was like Yeah.

太突兀了。我记得我们有——不知道你还记不记得，我们收到过制片方和电视台的顾虑和意见。他们说，这会不会太让人困惑？因为最被认为让人困惑的是跳到酒吧那场。

It's so jarring. I remember having I don't know if you remember this, but we would get we we had notes and concerns on that moment from the the studio network. They were like, is that just too confusing? Because you're the the conf the one that was deemed most confusing was jumping ahead to the bar. You know what I mean?

后来，是小团体在说“什么”？因为他们担心：观众的大脑能跟得上我们跳到未来他们在谈论这件事吗？太快了。

Later, and it's the gang saying what? Because you're they were like, do people's are people's brains gonna catch up to that idea that we're jumping they're to their talking about it in the future. It's so quick.

这是我最喜欢的比利·怀尔德关于电影制作的语录。他说，让观众自己去把二和二加起来，他们会永远爱你。

It's my favorite, quote about filmmaking from Billy Wilder. He says, let the audience put two and two together and they'll love you forever.

对，而那就是试播集在几个关键节点做的事。所以“我爱你”那一刻，泰德一直是主角，他正经历英雄时刻，然后他绝对搞砸了，以一种极其刺耳、像指甲刮黑板那样让人尴尬的方式，甚至让你在二十多年后还对电视大喊“不要”。

Yes. That and that's that is what that pilot did at a few key key spots. So the I love you spot, Ted has has been the hero. He's having his hero's moment. He absolutely fucks it up in an incredibly jarring, like like, nails on a chalkboard cringey way that even made you you yourself twenty something years later go, no, and scream at the TV.

我记得那天晚上你给我发短信，说“我现在正和乔安娜一起对着电视骂泰德”。然而，那一刻把你带进那个精彩的砰砰砰，三个不同时间线，跳跳跳。那就是剧在说：这就是我们是谁。

I think I think you texted me that night. You're like, I'm yelling at Ted on the TV right now with Jornana. And yet, that that spurs you into that great little boom boom boom, three different timelines, jump jump jump. And that was the show saying this is what the this is who we are.

对，我觉得那就是观众……试播集很有挑战性，因为你得教观众怎么看。尤其是像《老爸老妈的浪漫史》这样叙事复杂的剧，你得花不少功夫“训练”观众去看这部剧。

Yeah. And I think that's what audience And pilot is challenging because you have to teach the audience how to watch it. Especially if it's a show that is as narratively complex as How I Met Your Mother, you you had to do a lot of, like, training of your audience to watch the shows.

这就是我们坚持保留它的理由。我们说，保留它吧，因为这会让大家知道我们随时会跳来跳去。它会让你保持警觉。这可不是那种——对，躺在沙发上看手机的那种观看体验。

And that was our argument to keep it. We said, let's keep it because this will show people that we're gonna be jumping around all the time. It'll it'll keep you on your toes. This is not like Yeah. Lie back on the couch looking at your phone watching.

这是那种，得稍微集中注意力的节目。而学生网络也很给力，说，好，保留它。对，就这么干。

This is like, pay a little bit of attention here. And it's to their credit, the student network said, great. Keep it. Yeah. It's let's go

我想回到你刚才说的“我们不是那种给出圆满结局的节目”。对，我在想，有些人对节目近乎狂热的忠诚，就像那个敢跟你说真话的朋友——对，你反而更亲近那个会说真话的人，或者说真话是因为在乎你。对。

for I did wanna go back to one thing you said about we're not the tidy resolution show. Yeah. I wonder if some of the ferocious dedication to the show is almost like that friend you have that tells you the truth Yeah. Is like you're closer to the person who will say the thing or or say the thing because they love you. Yeah.

你知道，我的朋友约翰·莫罗——给《老妈的浪漫史》做美术的那位， shout out to John，他包了我所有美术。但多年前他曾跟我说，我想他不介意我提，他说：嘿，你认识我这么久了，我有哪些盲点？

You know? My friend John John Morrow, who shout out to John who did our art for How He Made Your Mother, he does all my art. But he said to me one year years ago, and I'm I don't think he'll mind me saying this, but he said, hey. You've known me for a long time now. Like, what are my blind spots?

就是我作为一个人，到底缺了啥？他真心想要反馈。于是我也回问他，因为我真的很信任他。这些话都出于爱，但有位作家叫萨希尔·布鲁姆，我现在跟他成了朋友，他写了本书叫《五种财富》。

Like, what am I missing as a person in my life? And he really wanted that feedback. And then I I I asked for it back, you know, just because I really trust him. And it was all said with a lot of love, but there was a, this author, Sahil Bloom, who I've become friends with. He has a book out called The Five Types of Wealth.

乔达娜和我昨晚去九十二街Y听他讲座，苏珊·凯恩采访的他，那晚特别棒。他说了句很棒的话：如果把你的人生当成电影，观众正朝你大喊什么，是你还没察觉的？

And, Jordana and I went to hear him at the 90 Second Street Y. Susan Cain interviewed him last night. It was a really wonderful evening. But he said this really great thing. He said, if if your life is a movie, what is the audience shouting at you to get that you're not getting?

你知道，就是——

You know, it's

就像圣丹斯电影节上的《杀手》。

like Killers in Sundance.

对，或者像——他爱你啊，你个笨蛋。

Yeah. Or like, he loves you, you idiot.

对，就是那种感觉。

Like Yeah.

比如，什么是

Like, what is the

那句话？第一次约会就说“我爱你”，Ted？

say thing? I love you on the first date, Ted?

那会很棒。但有趣的是，那种能量就是“哦，是啊”。你知道，我在做你让角色在不同时间做的事，也就是观众会做的事，比如“等等，什么？”你知道吗？是的。

That would be good. But but it was funny because that's the energy of Oh, yeah. You know, I was doing what you were having the the you were having characters at various times do the thing that the audience would do, which is like, wait, what? You know? Yeah.

是的。绝对如此。绝对如此。而且这也是我们承认的方式，就像我们在要求观众接受一件他们会大喊大叫的事。所以我们需要人们真的在二十五年里一直对Ted大喊大叫——那是二十五年的大喊。

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that what what what was also our way of acknowledging that, like, we're asking the audience to go along with something here that they're gonna be yelling about. So we need people yelling literally throughout twenty five it was twenty five years of yelling at Ted.

这几乎就像在说，我们也感到愤怒。我们对我们写出的这种行为感到愤怒。到1930年2月，人们还是会对他大喊大叫。孩子们也在对他喊。

It's almost like saying, like, we're outraged too. We're we're outraged at this behavior we wrote. People are still gonna be yelling at this in the year 02/1930. The kids were yelling at him.

是啊。这是件标志性的事。

Yeah. It's a it's it's an iconic thing.

让我先问一个来自

Let me just ask a question from the

网络的问题。Alex Gladwell，我们的制片人，Xronair。

Internet about this. Alex Gladwell, our producer, Xronair.

我们收到了很多问题，请把问题发到你们常用的所有平台，但我们在线上、官网、Instagram都有。h shane o three问你，一开始演Ted难吗，还是你感同身受，所以演起来轻松？所以当你回顾这个角色，再次说，他如此积极、如此前瞻，你27岁时是那样吗，这两者怎么联系起来？

We've got a lot of questions that have come in, and please send them everywhere that you send questions, but we're all over online on our website, on Instagram. And h shane o three asks you, was it difficult to first get into playing Ted, or did you relate to the character, did that make it easy to to do? So so when you're looking back on this this this character that, again, is so positive, so forward thinking, Were you that at 27, and how do those two connect?

是啊。我的意思是，拍试播集时我多大，30还是31？我记不清了。但我比Ted大三、四岁。

Yeah. I mean, I was what? 30, 31 when we did the pilot. I can't remember. But so I'm three or four years older than Ted.

我总觉得我在演一个比我年轻的人。所以几乎就像我的小弟弟。我把他描述成我深爱的小弟弟，但有时候真想给他一巴掌，让他清醒过来，你知道吗？

I always felt like I was playing someone younger than me. So it was almost like a little like my little brother. I've described him as, like, my little brother that I love dearly, but sometimes wanted to smack around and and tell him to, you know, snap out

“清醒过来”或者能那样做。这个描述太棒了。

of it or be able to that way. That's a fantastic description.

我，你知道，我觉得我和泰德一样有抱负和勇气。我确实认为那时候我更……我不会说我更乐观。我，有一个词叫“灵性回避”，不知道你们有没有听过，它基本上就是一直向前、总看光明面，是一种否认阴影的姿态。我觉得在某些方面，就像泰德一样，我……在整个剧集播出过程中，在我三十多岁时，我……我需要更多生活。

I, you know, I I think I shared some of, Ted's ambition and pluck. I do think at that time, I was much more I wouldn't say I was more optimistic. I was, there's a term called spiritual bypassing. I don't know if you guys have ever heard that, but it's basically like, always kind of moving through and looking at the bright side, and it's a very shadow denying kind of posture. And I think in some ways, and this is like Ted, like, I hadn't I I I throughout the course of the run, throughout my thirties, like, I needed more life.

我需要更多磨难。我需要更多失败。我需要，你知道，当我遭遇失败时，我的第一部试播集被砍了，我也说过。我需要……但有些东西是你想要的，你会被历练。生活会历练你。

I needed more suffering. I needed more failure. I needed, you know, when I had failures along the way, I got fired from my first pilot, which I've talked about. Like, I need but there's something about you want you get seasoned. Life seasons you.

你知道吗？是的。我觉得我们没必要刻意给人制造压力、紧张、挫折和跌倒。生活会做的。对吧？

You know? Yeah. And I don't think we have to engineer stress and strain and setback and stumble for people. Life does that. Right?

是的。但我觉得我当时有点天真。我觉得我当时并不完全明白那是什么，我……我觉得如果我……我在试播集里比后来更有信心，我在某个阶段又找回了它，但……

Yes. But I think I had some naivete a little bit. I think I didn't quite understand what it was, I I I was I I think if I I had a little more confidence in the pilot than I did maybe later and me and I I know I regained it at some level, but or at some point. But

这很有意思。

That's interesting.

那时候我是个非常拼命的年轻演员。我真的知道这是个大机会。我真的想抓住它。但，你知道，我住在纽约市。我在酒吧喝很多啤酒。

There was something I was so such a driven young actor. I really knew this was a big opportunity. I really wanted to seize it. But, you know, I lived in New York City. I drank a lot of beer at bars.

我害怕跟女生说话，有时候行得通，有时候行不通。你知道吗？我……我上的是一所小型文理学院。我来自俄亥俄州。有很多生平细节都对得上。

I got scared to talk to women, and some nights it worked, and some nights it didn't work. You know? Like, I I went to a small liberal arts college. I was from Ohio. Like, there were a lot of biographical things that lined up.

是的。但我也觉得我在性格上……我不知道是什么。我……我在三十多岁的时候经历了一段非常灵性的旅程，在镜头之外，我真的在问自己一些大问题，因为我觉得发生在我身上的事——这个我们可以之后再聊——就是当你取得成功，你爬到那座山顶，就像你爬上梯子顶端，却发现梯子可能靠错了墙。你知道吗？这真的是我想要的吗？

Yeah. But I also think I had I constitutionally, I think, have I don't know what it is. I I I I went on a very spiritual journey when I was in my thirties on, you know, off screen, and I was really trying to ask myself some big questions because I think what happened to me, and this is something we could talk about later, but, like, when you have success, you get to the kind of top of that mountain. It's the thing of like you climb to the top of the ladder and realize maybe it was propped against the wrong wall. You know, like, is this is this what I want?

这就是我在寻找的吗？于是我真的开始问自己一些大问题，这够了吗？我到底想做什么？也许这些，你知道，不是非莫斯比式的，但我想我我我很欣赏他的能量、他的热情、他的乐观和他的韧性。我的意思是，那可能是我最想向他学习并致敬的最大的一点，天啊，那家伙被击倒后只是——

Is this what I'm looking for? And so I really started to ask myself some big questions about is this enough? You know, what do I really wanna be doing? And maybe those are, you know, not un Mosby ish, but, I think I I I appreciated his energy and his passion and his optimism and his resilience. I mean, that would be the biggest thing that I would almost like to learn from him and honor about him was, man, that guy got kicked down and just Yeah.

又回来了。他回来了。

Came back. He came back.

韧性。那是——

Resilience. That's that's

一个很好的词。就是这个词。韧性和脆弱。你知道，他并不——他并不害怕说出自己的感受。他并不害怕——

a great word. That's the word. Resilience and vulnerability. You know, he was not he was not afraid to say how he was feeling. He was not afraid to Well,

那是——而这些都是

that's And those are all,

我认为，一个男人身上的英雄品质。

I think, heroic qualities for a man.

我同意。而且我觉得你在喜剧里看不到这些。就像你以前看不到一个敏感的男人。就像泰德搞砸之后的那段演讲。比如，在罗宾面前脱口而出“我爱你”之后。

I I agree. And I don't think you were seeing that in comedies. It's like you weren't seeing a man sensitive. It's like the speech Ted gives after fucking up. After, say, blurting out I love you up in Robins.

你不会得到泰德那段精彩的演讲，而且你演得那么好，表现得那么棒。我的意思是，那真是一记本垒打。我——我重看的时候眼里都有泪，一部分是因为真的太棒了，一部分是因为记得那天晚上我就在CBS雷德福片场的那条街上看你演。

You don't get that amazing speech from Ted and so wonderfully acted and performed by you out there. I mean, that is that is just a home run. I there was there was, like, tears in my eyes rewatching that, in part just because because of how good it was. And in part just remembering being there that night watching you do it on that street at the CBS Radford lot. That was not where we shot How I Met Your Mother after the pilot.

我们拍试播集是在CBS片场，之后所有集基本都在西洛杉矶的福克斯片场拍。所以完全不一样。但为了CBS的试播集，那是我们当时有场地、有钱去的地方。但我就记得那个夜晚，乔希，你站在那儿，那一晚的魔法。那是夜戏，在这条假纽约街上，但看起来美极了。

We shot the pilot valley at the CBS lot and then shot every other episode, basically, at the Fox Lot in West LA. So it was completely different. But for the pilot, for CBS, that's where we we had the space and the and the money sent us there at at that moment. And but just had this memory, Josh, of you out there and the magic of that night. And it was a night shoot on this fake New York City street, but it looked beautiful.

整条街灯火通明，漂漂亮亮。那种——你知道，他们会把人行道弄湿，那种闪闪发亮、神奇的感觉。我就站在那里看着你，就像我从2025年一步跨回2005年2月，我觉得我和年轻的你、年轻的我在一起。

It was all lit up, all pretty. The the the Yeah. You know, there's that thing where they kinda wet down the sidewalks. That's glistening and shiny and magical. And just watching you there, it's like I stepped into that TV now from the year 2025 back into 02/2005, and I felt I was there with young you and young me.

我突然涌起一股难以置信的怀旧感，完全被它淹没了。我当时想，我想去和他们在一起。我想去那里。我想感受他们所感受的。我感受到一种嗡嗡作响的活力，是的。

And I had this unbelievable wave of nostalgia that I was, like, overcome by. And I was like, I wanted to go be with them. I wanted to go be there. I wanted to feel the what they felt. There was, like, this thrumming aliveness I felt of, yes.

我们当时大概二十大几或者30岁。我想我们是30岁。我们就在那里。这是我们第一次大机会，我们都在共振、对齐、连接。我们知道自己在做什么。

We were, like, in our late twenties or 30. We were 30, I think. And there we were. This was our first big shot, and we were all, like, vibing and aligned and connected. We knew what we were doing.

我记得看你演那段演讲，那真的是演得太精彩了，写得也极好。我非常佩服卡特，卡特真的写得太美了。我觉得那完全就是卡特的写照。我觉得那是卡特在和泰德产生共鸣，因为卡特当时是单身。对。

I remember watching you do that speech, which, again, is is so brilliantly performed, brilliantly written. I I give Carter so much like, Carter really wrote he he wrote that speech so beautifully. I feel like that's such a Carter. That was really Carter connecting with Ted, I think, because Carter was single. Yeah.

卡特在说他自己的感受。他想要——他想要做到泰德在那段演讲里所说的一切，那也是卡特想去的地方。那是他同样的渴望，写这些需要很大的勇气。而你演得那么脆弱，却又带着一种英雄气概。你会瞬间忘记泰德两秒前在公寓里搞砸的“我爱你”，因为现在他是你的英雄，他在那段演讲里情感表达得那么清晰、那么睿智，我觉得他把你征服了。

Carter was saying how he felt. He wanted he wanted to do everything Ted said in that speech is where Carter wanted to be. It was it was his same aspiration, and it's very vulnerable to write that. And you just performed it with such vulnerability, but also this kind of heroism. You forget all about how much Ted fucked up two seconds ago saying I love you up in the apartment, because now he's your hero, and he's so emotionally articulate and intelligent in that speech that I think he wins you over.

如果泰德没在上楼搞砸，就不会有那段演讲，对吧。所以泰德必须是那个能在楼上搞砸的人，也必须是那个通过承认搞砸、然后用你完全没料到的绝妙情感把你彻底征服的人。所以我——

And you don't get that speech unless Ted fucked up upstairs. Right. So Ted has to be the guy who can fuck up upstairs and has to be the guy absolutely sweeps you off your feet by acknowledging the fuck up and then surprising you with this unbelievable sentiment that you did not see coming in that moment. So I I

我——我的意思是，

I I mean,

那很奏效。对。对。

that works. Yeah. Yeah.

之所以这么奏效，是因为罗宾给了他那个眼神。

It works so well because Robin gave him the look.

她给了他那个眼神。

She gave him the look.

而现在，

And now,

广告。广告结束，回到节目。

commercials. End of commercials, back to show.

我能问你们两位吗，当时你们有多投入？我是说，克雷格，你跟我描述过，突然之间你从编剧变成了拥有数百万资金风险的小企业老板，而且你到处奔波？你当时能体会到这一切吗？你能一边深呼吸一边想

Can I can I ask both of you, how present were you at the time as I mean, Craig, like you would describe to me, all of a sudden you go from writer to owner of rather large small business with millions of dollars on the line and, you know, you're going all over? Were you able to appreciate this in the moment? Could you breathe through it and go look

我们在这里做什么？我想我体会到了，因为，亚历克，我们不知道这部剧会不会——我们以为就那样了。我们在拍试播集，我们想，真不敢相信我们能走到这一步。至少能给朋友们看看。我确实有种感觉，那一刻很神奇，比如看着乔什在纽约街头外景地发表那段演讲。

what we're doing here? I think I did because, Alec, we didn't know if the show was at we thought that was it. We were shooting a pilot, and we're like, I can't believe we got it this far. We'll be able to show this to our friends. Mean, I I did have this feeling that something was magical about, like like, a moment, like, watching Josh do that speech on that location shoot outside on New York Street.

我当时有种感觉，这事能成，但你不知道。就像，我们把这一集拍好，看看能不能继续，多半不会。成功的几率很小，非常小。所以我还没觉得，我们在经营一家大企业。

Like, I had I had the feeling like this is gonna go, but you don't know. It was just like, let's make this one good episode, and we'll see if it ever goes in there. Probably it won't. The odds are against you, way against you. So I didn't I didn't yet feel that, like, we're running a big business.

我当时想，我们有这点钱、这几天时间、这些演员，那就尽力做出最好的二十二分钟节目。感觉非常短暂。也许那就是它的魔力之一。感觉绝对转瞬即逝。

I was like, we have this amount of money and this number of days and these actors. Let's make the best twenty two minute show we can. And, it felt very fleeting. And maybe that was part of its magic. It felt absolutely fleeting.

从那种角度看，感觉很纯真，因为现在回头看，你会说，当然，你知道他们后来拍了208集，还有207集。但在当时，我们只是想做一部好剧，能引起电视台注意，让我们

In that way, it felt very innocent because you look back now and you're like, well, of course, you have we know now they're gonna do 208 episodes of this, 207 more. Yeah. But at the time, we were just trying to make a good show that would get the attention of the network and that would Yeah. Put us on the

上档。是啊。

air. Yeah.

一集好剧。对吧？

One good episode. That right?

一集好的。然后，我再看的时候，又冒出不少东西，我迫不及待想听听你和乔丹娜一起看是什么感觉。我真的很想知道。我知道我们也许留到最后再说。所以我

One good one. And then we and I and the one another thing I loved watching it, just to tick off some more things that's jumped out of me watching it, and then I'm dying to hear more about what it was like watching with Jordana. I really am. I know I know we're saving that maybe from the end. Just so I'm

只是所以

just so

好奇。但你知道吗？我喜欢那种一切都很重要的感觉。一切都立刻变得重要。整集从马歇尔改变了我的世界开始。

curious. But what you know what? I loved how there were everything was important. Everything was important right away. The whole episode begins with Marshall changed my whole world.

他改变了游戏规则。他把一切都搞砸了，因为他订婚了。这是件大事。你最好的朋友订婚了。所以泰德决定，我要去遇见我一生的挚爱。

He changed the game. He screwed everything up by getting engaged. That's a big deal. Your best friend got engaged. So Ted decides, I'm gonna go meet the love of my life.

所有这些重要的事情开始发生。对吧？所有这些，一切都感觉是高风险的。这一切都发生在这一晚。我喜欢所有的时间跳跃，但这部剧的风险就在这一晚。

And all these important things start happening. Right? And all these like, everything feels high stakes. It all takes place in this one night. We I love all the time jumps, but they're the stakes of the show are one night.

我喜欢在这一切背后，以一种奇怪而隐秘的方式提升风险，人们可能不会注意到。有一个人站在桥上，要在罗宾的新闻故事里跳桥。我觉得这对试播集非常重要，有一种生死的紧张感在滴答作响。有一个小时钟在背景中滴答。那个人会跳桥吗？

And I love that in the background of this and raising the stakes in this weird kind of stealthy way that people might not notice. There's a guy on a bridge who's gonna jump off the bridge in Robin's news story. And I think it's so important to the pilot that there's this life or death tension just ticking. There's this little clock ticking in the background. Is that guy gonna jump off that bridge?

这又如何回到，比如，泰德在酒吧的那一刻，他们看——他没跳。马歇尔说他没跳，首先，我感到如释重负。我当时想，哦，谢天谢地那个人没跳。就像，我，又回到了剧情里。就是那种高风险的想法，都是生死攸关。

And how that sort of factors back into, like, the moment Ted you know, the the moment in the bar where they watch they that he didn't jump. And Marshall says he didn't jump, which first of all, I felt relief. I was like, oh, thank God that guy didn't jump. Like, I was just, back into it. And it's just like that idea of these high stakes, and it's all life or death.

这就是我们的生活。这就是我们现在的生活。今晚将是我们永远讲的故事。我们会活下去吗？我们会死吗？

This is our life. This is our life right now. Tonight can is gonna be a story we tell forever. Are we gonna live? Are we gonna die?

我们会跳吗？我们不会跳吗？跳是好还是坏？泰德对此有个很棒的笑话。但是，天哪，我就是喜欢试播集里一切都感觉像是世界上最重要的事情。

Are we gonna take the leap? Are we gonna not take the leap? Is taking the leap good or bad? Ted has a great joke about that. And but, boy, I just I loved how everything felt like the most important thing in the world in that pilot.

货车停下来时说了什么？他们说，有人要跳了。有人要跳了。

What is it in the van that pulls up? They said, we got a jumper. We got a jumper.

是啊。那是我们附近的那辆，新闻车就停在我们公寓前面？你就在那儿。我们一直在找你。是啊。

Yeah. That was the one by us, like, what does the news van just pull up in front of our apartment? There you are. We've been searching. Yeah.

我们一直在找你。

We've been looking for you.

他们一直在哪里找？哪里哪里哪里

Where have they been looking? Where where where

哪里哪里

where where

他们来了吗

did they Did come to

餐厅？他们怎么知道的？

the restaurant? How did they know?

他们来的时候我们手机上还没有追踪器。

Did they there weren't trackers on our phones yet.

格雷格，你指出过你并不知道会不会不止一集。这就是你在做的事，你算是把自己

Greg, you pointed out that you didn't know if there would be more than one episode. This this was what you were doing, and you sort of put your

全部投入进去了。我觉得一

all into it. I think one

点在这部试播集里非常明显的是，没错，它像一部优秀试播集那样开启了一部剧；它本身也是一部22分钟里就能讲完的精彩浪漫喜剧。你几乎在这22分钟里看了一整部电影。正如你所说，因为一切都如此重要，它就有了那种电影感，背景里还有那条故事线，这位浪漫主角也经历了不少。你只是恰好用“没追到女孩”而不是“追到女孩”来结束这段浪漫故事。

thing that shows out in this pilot very much show is, yes, it launches a series the way a great pilot's launch is. It's also just a great romantic comedy in twenty two minutes. You kind of have a whole movie happening in here. And like you're saying, because everything is so important, it has that cinematic feel, and it's got that story going on in the background, and it has this romantic lead going through quite a bit. You just happen to end this romantic story with not getting the girl instead of getting the girl.

是的。但真的感觉你把一个完整的故事都塞了进来。我觉得这就是为什么它

Yeah. But it really felt like you piled in a a a full tale in here. And I think that's why it

它迅速完成了很多事。它迅速完成了很多——我也为此自豪。比如，到第一幕结束时，我，我给自己写了个小笔记：已经发生了这么多事。第一幕里已经发生了这么多事。就像，你很快就了解了很多，很多事情已经发生。

It gets a lot done in a hurry. It gets a lot done in a I was also proud of that. Like, by the end of act one, I I, like, I I made a little note to myself, like, so much has happened. So much has happened in act one. Like, it's like, you know so much very quickly, and so much has happened.

我也喜欢另一个小瞬间。我喜欢罗宾那个在角落的朋友说，怎么这么久？你知道，大声催促。因为回头看这部剧会觉得特别搞笑，没想到这一拍就是208集。那女人说的那句，是整个试播集里最真实的一句台词。

I also loved another little moment. I love that Robin's friend in the corner going, what's taking so long? You know, calling out. Because the show kind of like it's just such a hilarious thing to look back at and go, little did we know how it's gonna be 208 episodes. That woman that that was the truest line in the whole pilot.

就是那个问“怎么这么久”的女人，因为整件事比任何人想象的都要漫长。我们后来在剧快结束时把她请回来了。我爱这个“怎么这么久”女孩，它几乎成了整部剧的主题。

It was the woman who goes, what's taking so long? Because the whole thing was gonna take longer than anyone ever thought. And we brought her back near the end of the show. I love the what's taking so long girl. It's it's sort of it just sort of became, like, the theme of the show.

怎么这么久？我们要花他妈的几年。到底要多久？

What's taking so long? Well, we're gonna take back fucking years. How long is it gonna take?

罗宾和泰德在聊天？

Robin and Ted are talking?

罗宾和泰德在说话，她想——对，那朋友想让她回角落那边。杰克一个人待着，刚被分手，然后——

Robin and Ted are talking and she wants yeah. The friend wants her to come back to the corner. Once Jake is alone, he's just had her break up and

她很痛苦，她想要下一杯

she's miserable and she wants her next

对，讨厌所有男人。她想——她想，我的下一杯呢？我得再醉一点，我刚被甩。

yeah. Hates all men. She wants to she wants she's like, where's my next round? I need to get drunker than this. I just got dumped.

那段对话也很棒。还有另一个瞬间，我觉得——其实有很多瞬间——我觉得，嘿，这戏可能有戏。你和罗宾在吧台上面，泰德和罗宾在吧台上面，最后以泼酒收场，那是你们俩试镜时的片段之一，因为你们试镜时就火花四射。那一刻我又想，我记得那场戏感觉不错。其实到处都感觉挺——

And that exchange that also was so great. What you and the other moment I thought I mean, many moments I thought, hey, this might go somewhere. You and Robin up at that bar, Ted and Robin up at that bar, and the whole thing that ends with the drink in the face, which was one of the audition scenes that got both of you cast, because you were magic even in an audition. That was another moment where I was like, I remember feeling pretty good in that scene. I mean, all over the place, I was feeling pretty pretty

挺好的。你还记得吗，我们最后拍的一场是兰吉特围着酒吧桌子的戏，那个搞笑揭露兰吉特——哦，原来兰吉特在

good about it. Do you remember also, it was the very last scene we shot was with Ranjit around the table at the bar. The the funny reveal that Ranjit Oh, is with

天啊，信号，兰吉特。

god. Signal. Ranjit.

什么？他太棒了。Marshall。

What? He's so good. Marshall.

他太棒了。Marshall Manaus。多少集？他最后

He's so good. Marshall Manaus. How many episodes? He ended up

拍了，大概，20集

doing, what, 20

他拍了一大堆。是啊。他是个重要人物，他——哦，天哪。他，还有他给我们的Teddy信号打光，那是个信号。

He did a whole bunch. Yeah. He was an important he was oh, man. Him him also kind of shooting our Teddy's signal. That was a signal.

是啊。但我也记得他们给了我们真正的香槟。

Yeah. But I also remember they gave us real champagne.

敬那个疯狂的夜晚。

To one hell of a night.

是啊。敬那个疯狂的夜晚。是真正的香槟。我都忘了这事。是啊。

Yeah. To one hell Yeah. Was real champagne. I forgot about that. Yeah.

他们给了我们真正的香槟，这在片场并不常见，但那是试播集拍摄的最后一天晚上，我们都喝了一点香槟。现场就是有种温暖、美好的感觉。就像，我觉得我们拍出了好东西。就是那种感觉。对吧？

They gave us real champagne, which is not something I've done a lot on the set, but it was it was the last night of the shooting of the pilot, and we all had a little bit of champagne. There was just such a warm, good feeling on set. Like, I think we made something good. That's what it felt like. Right?

感觉我们真的拍出了好东西。感觉我们拍出了我们想要的东西。真的就是那种感觉。生活，生活中的任何努力，尤其是电视试播集，并不总是那样。但它就是有种疯狂——有种魔力。

It felt like we had made something good. It felt like we had made the thing we set out to make. It really felt that way. Life life, any endeavor in life, especially a TV pilot too, doesn't always feel that way. And it just it had this mad there was just a magic to it.

我就是感觉到了一种魔力和生命力，一种比各部分之和更大、比我也比你或其他任何东西都更大的东西。而且，我看着它时充满了感激，也对粉丝们充满感激，因为大家发现了它——对CBS来说，它是一部挺怪的剧。

I just felt like a magic and a life to it and something that was bigger than the sum of its parts and bigger than me or you or anything. And And it was like I I felt I had so much gratitude watching it and so much gratitude to the fans because people found that it was a weird it was a weird show for CBS.

一个奇怪的标题。

With a weird title.

奇怪的标题。哦，我的意思是，我们试播了，然后被告知——你们拍试播集的时候感觉特别棒，接着你把它拿去给焦点小组测试，走一遍那种有点公司化的测试流程，每个试播集都得这样。测试结果之一就是：大家讨厌这个标题。我记得测试人员说，所有人都被搞糊涂了。你——我强烈建议改掉。

Weird title. Oh, and I mean, we tested that pilot and we're told so after have you this magic time shooting the pilot, and then you take it and you take it to these focus groups, you put it through this kind of somewhat corporate testing process, which every pilot does. And one of the takeaways from the testing was people hate the title. It was like, you have to I remember the the testing people being like, everyone's confused by this. You have you I I have strong recommendation to change this.

他们当时就在高管面前这么说。

And they were saying it in front of, like, the studio executives.

我当时想：闭嘴啊，别说了。

I was like, don't shut up. Don't say that.

别——咱们能不能到那边说？因为我们不想改标题。标题就是灵魂。谢天谢地，电视台和制作公司都相信这部剧。

Don't just just can we can we can we just talk over here away from them? Cause we did not wanna change the title. The title is the thing. Thank God. Again, the studio and the network, they believed in the show.

他们知道剧名，把剧卖出去了，所以我们没卖。但确实有过讨论：这个剧名会不会太让人困惑？那些时间跳跃，我说过的，砰砰砰，什么什么什么？果不其然，有些参加焦点小组的人——他们周日午后在谷地收了50美元来看试播集，其实是从隔壁商场晃进来的——

They knew the title, sold the show, and so we didn't. But there there was there were discussions. Is the is the title too confusing? The that those time jumps I talked about, boom boom boom, what what what? Sure enough, some people in the focus group that were that had, you know, accepted $50 to watch a pilot on a Sunday afternoon in the valley who had wandered in from the mall next door or whatever.

他们说，我不明白，这太奇怪了。你懂吧？如果你被问“这让你困惑吗？”你就会说，嗯，是的。

They were like, I don't get it. What's that's weird. You know? And and if you were asked, did that confuse you? And you go, yeah.

确实令人困惑。什么谁什么跳到了未来？发生了什么？所以，当你把这么复杂又独特的东西拿去走那套流程时，你会非常紧张，生怕它最后变成最糟的结果。但它没有。

That is confusing. What what who what had jumped to the future? What happened? And people so it's it's very nerve wracking when you put something this intricate and unique through that process, and you're just terrified it's gonna come out the the worst. But it didn't.

真的没有。

It really didn't.

你提到第一幕结束前已经发生了那么多事，我觉得正因为这种叙事结构，这部剧情节特别密集，推进特别快，所以它承受不了任何赘肉，一切都得被削到最核心。

When you were talking about how much had already happened by act by the end of act one, I feel like because of the narrative structure, it's such a plot heavy show. It's such a propulsive show. So it doesn't it can't withstand a lot of fat on it. It's like everything was trimmed down to its essence

是的。

It was.

这很令人惊讶，因为我对做这部剧的记忆是，虽然情节有趣、奇怪且总是出人意料，但你还是能在里面塞进很多好笑的梗。但这些梗都揭示角色性格，同时推动剧情，所有笑话都是如此。

Which is is astonishing because my memory of doing the show, while the plot is delightful and strange and always surprising, you still get so many good jokes in there. But they're they're they're they're character revealing and they're plot forwarding all the jokes.

要么揭示角色，要么推动剧情，或者两者兼具。就是这样。几乎所有内容都符合这一点。顺便说一句，一开始并不是这样的。

One or the other or both. That's exactly it. They're character revealing or plot forwarding or both. There's almost nothing that isn't that. And and by the way, just that didn't start that way.

那集试播集送来时，原本应该是22分钟，我觉得是31分钟。对，我们拍超了。

That pie that cut of that pilot came in. It's supposed to be twenty two minutes. I think it was thirty one minutes. Yeah. We overshot.

我们整段整段地剪掉，去掉所有赘肉。剪那部剧让我们学到太多，它几乎是在剪辑室里拼出来的。而且——当你看到

We cut out whole scenes with all this fat. We learned so much editing that show. It really was built in the edit room in a lot of ways. And boy And when you see

剪辑后的版本时，你几乎每次都会心碎，因为你会想，哦，那段没了，我好喜欢那段，它去哪儿了？

the the edited version and you're just heartbroken most of the time because you're like, oh, that's gone. I love that. Where did that go?

不会。只会变得更好。剪掉的每样东西都该剪。真的。

No. This just got better. This just got better. Every everything we cut out, we should have cut out. Yeah.

所有东西——天哪，最初写得太满，送来时太臃肿，一开始并不出色，是我们一点点削成你说的那样。

Everything oh my god. It was so overwritten. It came in so fat. It wasn't great at first, and we whittled it down on what you just said.

我有两个问题。第一，橄榄理论是从哪儿来的？

I have two two questions. One, where'd the Olive Theory come from?

我觉得那也是Carter的小金点子，因为有趣的是，它有点像Marshall和Lily的事。可能是Carter观察到的，你知道，跟我是多年密友，看到也许21岁认识我时就像个老夫老妻的家伙，然后到30岁时更甚，情侣间的协商。我觉得那是Carter偷偷评论，看着一个男人在关系里稍微让步、挑点值得吵的事。我不想打消他这看法，比如我不想说服他别这么想。我觉得那是Carter聪明又带点调侃的评论，或者算是损我一下，作为我最好的朋友，看着我跟一个强势女生谈恋爱。

I think that was that I think that was also a Carter based gem because but but it's funny because it was sort of a Marshall and Lily thing. It might have been might have been Carter's observation of, like, you know, being close friends with me and seeing maybe this old married guy at age, you know, twenty twenty one when we met, basically. And then even more so by the time I was 30 and, like, the negotiations of couple I think it was Carter's, like, stealth commentary on, like, you know, watching a guy in a relationship, like, bend a little bit and choose your battles. And I don't I wouldn't wanna dissuade this person of this thing and, like, I I think it was I think it was Carter's clever clever commentary slash slight diss on maybe being my my close friend watching me in a relationship with a strong woman.

我喜欢，

And I like,

我不想说，我觉得它有点糟糕，我愿意承担这个责任。

I don't wanna was it sort of I think it was, like, I think it was a little bit bad, which I will take that hit any day.

试播集里唯一让我起鸡皮疙瘩、觉得今天不会写的内容是巴尼的开场白。

The only thing in the pilot that I found that made me cringe and I think would pro you would not write today is Barney's opening lines.

对。是啊。他在说，嗯，他喜欢哪种类型的女人，我

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like he's talking about, like yeah. What type of women he likes, and I

以前喜欢

used to like

这种女人。现在是黎巴嫩人。对对。

this kind woman. Now it's Lebanese. Yeah. Yeah.

这，嗯，感觉有点不敏感。而且，显然，你知道，这就是巴尼的人设。我边看边这么想，我有点不太自豪。但我想，这就是我们对巴尼的开场？

It, yeah, it feels a little insensitive. And, obviously, that, you know, that's kind of who Barney is. It it's kinda I watched I thought the same thing. I felt a little bit not proud of that. But but I felt like, that was our opening thing for Barney?

我们从这里开始。我们到底在干嘛？

What I will start there. What what are we doing?

这很棘手，随着我们深入，我们可能会剖析这个角色。但问题在于，你从未真正认同巴尼的世界观。你只是写一个有着奇怪想法和计划的角色。但写这种角色很棘手——他不是为了被模仿，而是为了被嘲笑或翻白眼。然而你会遇到一些人，就像迈克尔·道格拉斯在《华尔街》里一样。

It's a tricky thing, and this is something we'll probably unpack about that character as we go. But it's a tricky thing where it's like, you never were actually endorsing Barney's worldview. You were trying to write a character that had these very strange kind of out there ideas and schemes and all this stuff. But it's a tricky thing when you're writing a character like that who's held up to not be, emulated, but to be slightly kind of mocked or roll your eyes at them. But then you get people it's kind of like Michael Douglas in Wall Street.

你知道，奥利弗·斯通是再左不过的导演了，却创造了一个角色，让大学里的金融兄弟们在宿舍墙上贴戈登·盖柯的海报。

You know, Oliver Stone, who's as lefty of filmmakers you could get, created a character that, like, finance bros in college, like, had Gordon Gekko posters on their wall.

我知道。知道吗？很好。贪婪是他们开始的

I know. Know? Good. Greed they started

他们好像完全错过了谴责的部分，对吧？

they it's like they missed the entire condemnation. Right?

对。而且这就是巴尼身上发生的事。你知道，我们想象巴尼是对有毒男子气概的讽刺。但在表面之下，有一个非常渴望人陪伴的普通人，他希望泰德穿上西装，玩激光枪战，并成为他最好的朋友。这就是我喜欢这集试播集的地方。

Right. And and that's that happens with Barney. You know, bar Barney we imagine Barney as a parody of toxic masculinity. But and underneath it, there's this very needy human who wants Ted to put on a suit, play laser tag, and be his best friend. That's what I loved in this pilot.

这让我想起了巴尼最初的样子。就像我在看试播集时，我心想，巴尼在周六晚上，自己一个人和孩子们玩激光枪战。是啊。

It reminded me of, like, the original intention of Barney. Like, I was watching the pilot, I thought to myself, Barney, on Saturday night, is playing laser tag with children by himself. Yeah.

这挺让人难过的。很悲伤

It's quite sad. It's sad

从某种角度来说。就像他真的希望泰德能来，而泰德没来。他假装激光枪战超棒，但他立刻就放弃了激光枪战去找泰德。他只想让泰德穿上西装，确认他是他最好的朋友。这就是巴尼的本质。

in a way. And it's like he really wanted Ted to come, and Ted didn't come. And he's he's pretending he's like, laser tag is so awesome, but he abandons laser tag immediately to come join Ted. And all he wants is for Ted to put on a suit and be reassured he's his best friend. And that is the essence of Barney.

我为此感到自豪，因为有时我们……有时人们看巴尼，以为他应该被模仿。有时人们看巴尼，会说，哦，你现在可不能再那样做了。而我对这个问题的回应是，对我来说——这并不意味着我们总是命中目标——但我们从未试图“蒙混过关”。我们一直想把他塑造成一个漫画式的讽刺形象。然后早在试播集里，我们就试图在那份虚张声势和那身西装之下，挖掘出那种脆弱、渴望人陪伴的普通人。

I was proud of that because sometimes we do sometimes people watch Barney and they think he's to be emulated. Sometimes people watch Barney and they go, oh, you couldn't get away with that now. And I I guess my response to that for me, and it doesn't mean we always hit the target here, but for me, we were never trying to get away with that. We were always trying to be to make a caricature and a parody. And then even as early as a pilot, we were trying to dig underneath that bravado and that suit and see this kind of needy human vulnerable person underneath.

我可以指出很多其他集里我们也试图对巴尼这样做，我觉得那就是试播集里巴尼的“基因密码”。我认为整部剧里最棒的巴尼时刻都做到了这一点。也许那些只是讲巴尼笑话的时刻，变成了洪都拉斯式的单口段子，或者变得只有一层，也许我们有时做得太多了。那就好像我们不再对巴尼做评论，我们不再展示他内心的人。

And I could point to a lot of other episodes with Barney where we tried to do that down the line, and I think that was the the the genetic code, the DNA code of Barney in the pilot. I think the best Barney moments through the series did that. And maybe the ones where we were just doing, like, Barney jokes, that became single on Honduras or became, like, became sort of one level, and maybe we did too much of that at times. And it and it was like, we weren't making the commentary about Barney. We weren't showing the person underneath.

我敢肯定我们确实有很多那样的内容，可能现在看起来就不那么经得起推敲了。但我认为那些展现人性、展现那个渴望被爱的普通人的时刻，那才是这个角色。那才是这个角色。而尼尔演得太美了。你真的能在试播集里感受到这一点，我觉得。

I I'm sure we did plenty of that that made that probably doesn't hold up as well. But I think the moments where we were showing the human, the needy human underneath it all, that's that's that was the character. That was the character. And Neil Neil played that so beautifully. You really get that in the pilot, I think.

而那那是……你知道的

And that that was You know

我另一个感触是，他们熬夜到多晚啊

what else I was struck by is, how late they stayed up

都我们这个年纪了。我看的时候都累坏了，心里想着，这得撑到什么时候

being our age now. I was so tired watching it. I was like, this? It's gotta

已经凌晨1点45了，他们还说要去酒吧喝最后一轮。

be it's like 01:45. Like, they're gonna meet at the bar for last round.

天啊，这些人精力太旺盛了。我晚上9点53分看的时候就已经困得不行，想着得赶紧关电视睡觉了。

Like, Jesus. These people have a lot of energy. I was so tired. I was watching it at, like, 09:53 at night, and I was like, I I gotta start turning this off pretty soon.

再不睡我明天就毁了。是啊。

I'm gonna ruin my next day if I don't get to sleep. Yeah.

Josh，为了留个记录，你还记得这部剧拍的第一场戏是什么吗？

Josh, just to have it on the record, do you remember what the first scene the first scene you shot was of this whole this whole show?

可能就是第一场，也许是Marshall假装向我求婚的那场。那幕我印象很深。

It might have been the first one. It might have been Marshall, like, the fake out that he was proposing to me. That that sticks in my head.

我觉得

I think

就是那一场。我觉得是Jason

it was that. I think it was Jason

在屋顶上求婚。我觉得就是那场。我们当时说，就从开头拍起。因为那基本上是全剧第一场，像一段蒙太奇，配着照片和音乐，就这样。我觉得Pam导演很聪明，她说我们就从开头开始，到结尾结束，中间随便打乱，但至少给整个故事一个框架。

proposing on his I think that was it. I think we said, let's start at the beginning. Because that's essentially the first scene that it's sort of like a montage and photos and music and that's it. And I think Pam, again, our director, was very smart to say, let's begin at the beginning and let's end at the ending. He'll have to jumble in between, but let's give ourselves that frame.

就是这样。就是那种感觉。对。而且是你和杰森一起。我们还没怎么聊过杰森在试播集里有多棒，你们俩在那场戏里立刻就产生了绝佳的哥们化学反应，奠定了整部剧的基调，这才是让我笑个不停的原因。

That is it. That's what it was. Yeah. And it was you and Jason together. We haven't talked much about how great Jason is in the pilot and how what what a great best friend chemistry you guys had immediately in that scene that sets the whole tone for the That's what's making me laugh

是楼下出租车里他们仨等着的那场，真的超好笑。对。这其实是个值得好好聊聊的点。我们演员——你、卡特、帕姆——曾经一起讨论并达成共识的一件事就是：在大多数情景喜剧里，大家说着各种爆笑台词，却没人真的笑。

was, the three of them in the cab waiting downstairs. There it's really funny. Yeah. And this is a really good thing to actually talk about. One of the things we all talked about and agreed, the cast, you, Carter, Pam, was the idea on a sitcom, most sitcoms, people are saying hilarious stuff and no one ever laughs.

对。但我们决定，作为一部讲朋友的戏，我们希望它有点真实感，如果谁说了一句明显是玩笑的话，我们就会笑出来，或者选择不笑。

Yes. But we decided as friends in a show that we wanted to have some verisimilitude to it, if someone said something that was clearly meant to be a joke, we would laugh at it. Or choose not to laugh at it.

对对。但要给反应。要有反应。

Yeah. Yeah. But react. React to it.

巴尼和马修真的在互相逗笑，我觉得尼尔和杰森在出租车后座也真的在互相逗笑。那种感觉很迷人、很真实。

Barney and Marshall are really making each other laugh, and I think Neil and Jason were really making each other laugh in the back of that cab. And there's something really charming and real about it.

这个观察太棒了，贯穿了整部剧，让这部戏从头到尾都更真实。帕姆或者——

That is a great observation that carried through the whole series and I think made the show feel realer door to door. Pam or

苏，她总会剪进这些反应镜头，比如有人在卡座说了什么，镜头切过去他们在笑。我觉得这让剧格外迷人，我们并不是对幽默无感。

Sue, there she would always cut in these reaction shots of, like, someone says something at the booth and you cut to them laughing. And I thought it made the show kind of extra charming that we weren't oblivious to humor.

杰森在这方面真的很厉害。他会——他会笑，他会像——我是说，他在试播集里就很乐在其中。看得出来他玩得很开心，他很高兴能参演。对。

Jason was really good at that. He would be he would be la he would be, like, I mean, he was amused to be in that pilot. Like, he was having a good time and it showed. He was happy to be there. Yeah.

而且你真的能感受到，也能感受到你们之间的火花。对。他们在出租车里那段太棒了。甚至巴尼单独跟马修在车里时说“别结婚”那句。

And, like, you you really felt that and you you felt that between you guys. Yeah. Yeah. And they're them down in that cab is great. And even bar Barney saying to Marshall when they're alone in that cab, don't get married.

连那都感觉分量很重。他当天才刚订婚，巴尼就说“别结婚”。就像，每一场戏都藏着一两个甚至三个高 stakes 的点。对，就连那句，斯图格也跳出来强调：“这很重要。”

Even that felt big. It's like he just got engaged that day, and Barney's going, don't get married. Like, there was so many like, every scene had some high stakes thing in it or two or three of them. Yeah. Like that even that, Stug jumped out at me where he's like, that's important.

那是他一个亲密的朋友在说，你正在犯一个可怕的错误。在你人生最重要的一天向莉莉求婚。这是一个大胆的举动。

That's one of his close friends saying, you're making a horrible mistake. You on the biggest day of his life proposing to Lily. It's a bold swing.

嗯，也正如他们所说，你娶谁是你一生中最重要的决定。我的意思是，这本来就是高风险的。

Well, it's also like they say who you marry is the most important decision you'll ever make. I mean, this is high stakes stuff anyway.

这是高风险的。而且巴尼害怕失去马歇尔。我会失去马歇尔的。我再也见不到马歇尔了。他要结婚了，然后离开，这又回到了巴尼的那个问题。

It's it's high stakes. And Barney's afraid of losing Marshall. I'm gonna lose Marshall. I'll never see Marshall again. He's gonna get married and go away, which, again, is that thing from Barney.

他不想失去别人，因为，嗯，我们在后面的剧集中深入了解了巴尼的童年，我们看到他是在没有父亲的环境下长大的。你知道，他过得并不轻松。我喜欢你在试播集中就能感受到这一点。

He doesn't wanna lose people because, well, we dig into Barney's childhood later in later in the show, and we see that he grew up without a dad. And, you know, he had he did not have the easiest time of it. And I I like that you sense that in that pilot.

克雷格，你能稍微谈谈马歇尔和莉莉吗？因为这在某种程度上是你把自己的婚姻搬上了荧幕，你决定讲述他们的故事，现在看到他们，和你当时的想法相比，是什么感觉？

Craig, can you just talk a little bit about Marshall and Lily since this is your, in some way, your marriage put up on screen that you decided to to do about their their story and what it was like now seeing them compared to how you were thinking about it back then?

我当时就觉得杰森和艾莉森非常甜蜜、讨人喜欢、很棒。这让我——让我很开心。我喜欢记得这是剧集创立的重要部分，他们是那种基石。他们是成年人。他们是父母。

I just thought Jason and Allison were so sweet and endearing and wonderful. It made me it just it just made me so happy to see. I liked I liked remembering that this was a big part of the inception of the show, that they're the sort of the foundation. They're the adults. They're the parents.

他们就像，跟我们说说你的约会吧，孩子。他们带来了一种情感上的稳定和基础。而且莉莉比马歇尔更成熟。就像大多数二十多岁的女性比男性更成熟一样，我的未婚妻，后来是妻子，和我相比也是如此。我喜欢这种动态。

They're like, tell us about your date, son. There's some kind of, like, emotional grounding and foundation to them that they bring. And Lily's more grown up than Marshall. Just like most women in their twenties are more grown up than men as my wife, fiance, then wife was compared to me. And I liked that dynamic.

她是那个成熟的人。她走进来。她被一个幼儿园小孩摸了一下。她胸上有一个手印。她就那样走进来，既有趣又迷人。

She was the grown up. She comes in. She has been felt up by her a kindergartner. She has a a handprint on her boob. And she just comes in and is so funny and charming.

而杰森更飘忽、更缺乏安全感，有点像一只迷路的小狗，但他非常爱她。他们之间的纽带和基础，我觉得让那一集变得接地气。他们要订婚了。他们要结婚了。他们是整个季节的承诺。

And Jason's more all over the place and insecure and a little bit of a lost puppy dog, but he loves her so dearly. And the the the bond and foundation that they provide, I think, brings everything down to earth in that episode. And they're getting engaged. They're gonna get married. They're the promise of what the whole season's gonna be.

会有一场婚礼。这是非常重要的事情，而且你立刻就会爱上他们，我觉得。我并不是说我自己或我妻子有多可爱。只是觉得他们非常可爱。我的意思是，我觉得能听播客听到这里的人已经知道了。

There's gonna be a wedding. This is big important stuff, and you love them right away, I think. I'm not saying I'm such a lovable person or my wife is. Like to think that they are very lovable. I mean, I think people anybody that's come this far in the podcast already knows that.

但但但我我我真的我我我意识到他们是如何锚定那部剧的宇宙。他们是泰德想成为的样子，而观众他们是那一季将要发生什么的承诺。他们会结婚。我们会看到一场婚礼。或者我们会吗？

But but but I but I I really was I I I was aware of how much they anchored the universe of that show. They they were what Ted wanted to be, and the audience they were the promise of what was gonna happen in that season. They're gonna get married. We're gonna see a wedding. Or are we?

对吧？后来在那一季，事情变得复杂了。还记得乔什在电视评论家协会上被骂吗？记得我们有一个《老爸老妈的浪漫史》试播集发布会，当剧集被续订时，所有评论家一个接一个举手提问，他们都像，所以你会承认没让罗宾当老妈是个错误吗？他们在试播集里化学反应太强了。

Right? We then later in the season, it gets complicated. Also remember Josh getting yelled at at TV Critics Association. Remember, we had a How I Met Your Mother panel launching the pilot when the show got picked up, and all the critics, one after the other, raised their hand and asked us questions for a q and a, they were all like, so will you admit you made a mistake not making Robin the mother? They had such chemistry in the pilot.

你还记得吗？我我我在这里做了一个赫米式闪前，我们

Do you remember this? I'm I've I've done a Hemian style flash forward here where we're

当剧集被续订时，

when the show was picked up,

我们在电视评论家协会活动上，你们做了一场发布会。有问答环节，他们生你们的气了。奇怪。

and we're at a TV Critics Association event where you sort of introduce. We do a panel. There's a q and a They were mad at you guys. Strange.

他们生你的气了。对。

Were were mad at you. Yeah.

我们见过

We met

他和卡特。他们对我们大喊大叫，盘问我们，为剧中许多类似时刻定下了基调。我记得有个人说，你现在会承认你犯错了吗？现在我们看到泰德和罗宾的化学反应，而你们又被试播集的结局锁死了她不是老妈。未来的老爸说这不是老妈。

him and Carter. They were yelling at us and drilling us, setting the tone for many different moments where that would happen in the show. And they I remember one guy saying, will you admit now that you made a mistake? Now that we see the chemistry between Ted and Robin, and now you're locked into this pilot ending that she's not the mother. You had the future dad say it's not the mother.

你们真的在播出前考虑回去改掉吗？让她直接当老妈。而我们说，不。

Are you seriously considering before it airs going back and changing that? And she's just the mother. And we're like, no.

然后但也像，剧已经完了。剧已经完了。

And then but also, like, the show is over. Show is over.

对吧？然后我就想，那接下来这部剧会是什么？他们就说，嗯，也许就讲他们俩，他们的关系。这就是……但那就不是这部剧了。

Right? And it's well, then it could and I was like, what is the show after that? The guy they're like, well, it could just be about them. They their their relationship This is this is But that's not the show.

这是个更大的问题：人们不喜欢模棱两可。他们不喜欢不知道结局，不喜欢事情没按预期发展带来的不适感。可你知道吗？Ted 也不喜欢。Ted 也一样。

This is a bigger issue, which is people don't like to live with ambiguity. They don't like to not know how something they don't like the discomfort of this didn't work out the way we thought it was going to. But you know what? Neither does Ted. Neither does Ted.

Ted 也不喜欢。Ted 也不喜欢。再说一次，你现在回看那个“我爱你”的时刻很生气，当时我们被半个屋子的人骂——大概300个电视评论人。他们冲我们发火，我们被吼了。

Neither does Ted. Neither does Ted. And and again, like you being mad at the I love you moment now watching it, when they when so many when half the room was furious at us at this it was, like, 300 TV critics. They were mad at us. And we they were getting yelled at.

我记得我当时想，天啊，我要是上台前喝两杯威士忌就好了。我们会被涂柏油粘羽毛吗？到底怎么回事？我还记得CBS的公关Beth提前跟我说：她说，不会的。

I remember being like, Jesus Christ. I wish I had, like, had a couple whiskeys before coming out of this stand. Are we gonna be tarred and feathered? Like, what's going on? And and I remember having been told by the CBS publicist, Beth, they go she was like, no.

他们谁都不想问你问题。他们会问Neil《Doogie Howser》，问Alison《Buffy》。你一句话都插不上。结果第一个问题就是：嘿，我想找那些在疫情结尾没让俩人在一起的混蛋出来挨骂。

None of them are gonna wanna ask you a question. They're gonna ask Neil about Doogie Howser, Drozka Allison about Buffy. They're gonna do you'll get you won't get two words in it. It was like, first question, hey. I wanna talk to those motherfuckers that didn't get time time and time together at the end of the pandemic.

他们能站出来接受羞辱吗？

Can they step forward and be shamed?

我总觉得好笑：有人对创作者说，我把你的作品全看完了，全读/全看了，现在我告诉你，你写错了。是的，这是我想要的结局，我会这样写。

I always think it's funny when you tell a storyteller or creator, like, I consumed everything you did. I have I read everything or I watched the whole thing, and I am declaring to you that you did something wrong with it. Yes. Here's what here's what here's what I would have done. Here's how I would have written it.

对吧，就像——

Right. It's like

这可不是主观问题。

It's not subjective.

去写你自己的故事啊。对，去写你自己的故事。

Write your own story. Right. Do go write your own story.