本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
欢迎收听Huberman实验室播客，我们在此探讨科学及基于科学的日常生活工具。我是Andrew Huberman，斯坦福医学院神经生物学和眼科学教授。今天的嘉宾是David Goggins。他是一名退役海军海豹突击队员，曾在伊拉克和阿富汗服役，同时也是一位成就卓越的超级马拉松跑者。
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is David Goggins. David Goggins is a retired Navy SEAL who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's also a highly accomplished ultramarathon runner.
对于不了解的听众，超级马拉松是指距离超过26英里的比赛，而David参加的赛事通常超过200英里。因其在运动领域的成就，他入选了国际体育名人堂，并曾保持24小时内完成最多引体向上的吉尼斯世界纪录。值得一提的是，David不仅是功勋卓著的海豹队员，还毕业于陆军游骑兵学校。作为作家他也极为成功，著有《无法伤害我》和《永无止境》两本畅销书。
For those of you that don't know, ultramarathons are distances longer than 26 miles, and in David's case, often longer than 200 miles. For his achievements in athletics, he has been inducted into the International Sports Hall of Fame. He also held a Guinness World Record for the most pull ups completed in twenty four hours. I should mention that not only was David a decorated Navy Seal, but he also graduated from Army Ranger School. David is also a highly successful writer, having authored two books, the first entitled Can't Hurt Me and the second entitled Never Finished, both of which are bestsellers.
David的著作涵盖诸多主题，包括他用自传体描述的——堪称极其艰难的童年及青年时期。他的家庭充满虐待，校园环境同样恶劣，几乎没有任何正向资源向他倾斜。二十多岁时，他发现自己已深陷肥胖困扰。
David's books cover many topics, including his autobiographical description of what can only be described as an incredibly challenging child and young adulthood. His home was abusive. His school environment was abusive. He essentially had no positive resources directed his way. And in his twenties, he found himself to be obese.
那时他做着厌恶的工作，周薪不足300英镑。正是在那个节点，David开始了与内心的对话，迫使他直面童年孕育的恶魔，以及青年时期的困境，继而开启了一段通过这种对话将自己蜕变为海豹队员、超级马拉松跑者、畅销书作家，最终成为如今这个充满正能量且极具影响力的非凡人物的旅程。
That is more than £300 working a job he despised for minimal pay. And it was at that point that David began an inner dialogue that forced him to explore the demons born out of his childhood, but also the position that he found himself in as a young man, and then began the journey to navigate that dialogue and transform himself into the Navy Seal, the ultra marathon runner, the bestselling author, and the extraordinarily positive and influential man that he is today. As some of you may know, David has done various public lectures. He's a familiar face online because there are so many clips of him on YouTube, and he has done podcasts before. However, I'm certain that you'll find today's discussion to be very different than previous podcasts that David has been featured on.
我们不仅会探讨他的成就，更将深入解析支撑这些成就的思维模式。但今天的独特之处在于，David首次向观众完全敞开心扉——展示他每日必须接纳（甚至时常昼夜多次与之角力）的内心对话模式，正是这种对话铸就了他闻名遐迩的自律品格。我们还将揭示意志力背后的科学机制，并讨论David当前对医学科学的深入研究——他已为此成为专注的学者与实践者。
The reason is that, of course, we get into his accomplishments. We talk about the mindset that allowed him to achieve those things. But today, David really lets us under the hood. He lets us into the form of inner dialogue that he has to embrace, indeed that he has to grapple with on a daily basis, sometimes multiple times throughout the day and night in order to impose the sort of self discipline that he is so well known for. We also get into some of the scientific mechanisms underlying willpower, and we talk about David's current endeavors that include, for instance, his own exploration of science and medicine for which he has become an intense scholar and practitioner.
需要说明的是，本期对话中将多次出现粗俗用语。虽然David与我均认同粗话并非适合所有人，且自言粗话与辱骂他人存在本质区别，但我们理解许多听众（特别是家长）可能对此反感。若您无法接受，这期节目或许不适合您。但若能包容，我保证今天的对话极具价值。
I should mention that multiple times throughout today's discussion, you will hear curse words. Now David and I both acknowledge that cursing isn't for everybody and that cursing itself is different than cursing at somebody. Nonetheless, we do realize that many people, parents perhaps especially, might not want to hear cursing. If you don't want to hear cursing, well, then this podcast episode is probably not for you. However, if you are comfortable with cursing or if you can tolerate it, I assure you today's discussion is highly worthwhile.
开场前我想强调，本播客与我在斯坦福的教学研究无关，而是我向公众免费提供科学知识及相关工具的尝试。秉承此理念，感谢本期赞助商Element——这款电解质饮料只含必需成分，绝无冗余添加。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is Element. Element is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need, but nothing you don't.
这意味着电解质——钠、镁和钾，全部以正确比例调配，但不含糖分。适当的水分补充对大脑和身体功能至关重要。即使是轻微的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。获取足够的电解质同样重要，这些电解质对全身细胞尤其是神经元或神经细胞的运作不可或缺。
That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar. Proper hydration is critical for optimal brain and body function. Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish cognitive and physical performance. It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes. The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium are vital for the functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.
将Element溶解在水中饮用，能极其便捷地确保你获得充足水分和电解质。为确保摄入适量的水分和电解质，我早晨醒来时会溶解一包Element于约16至32盎司水中，作为晨起第一件事饮用。在进行任何体能锻炼时，我也会饮用Element水溶液。他们提供多种美味口味选择，如西瓜味、柑橘味等。
Drinking Element dissolved in water makes it extremely easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes. To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of Element in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I wake up in the morning, and I drink that basically first thing in the morning. I also drink Element dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing. They have a bunch of different great tasting flavors of Element. They have watermelon, citrus, etcetera.
坦白说，我全都喜欢。若想尝试Element，可访问drinkelement.com/hubermanlab，购买任意Element饮品混合包即可获赠免费样品。重申一次，通过drinkelement.com/hubermanlab可领取免费样品包。本期节目也由Waking Up赞助。Waking Up是一款包含数百个冥想课程、正念训练、瑜伽休息术及NSDR（非睡眠深度休息）方案的冥想应用。
Frankly, I love them all. If you'd like to try Element, you can go to drinkelement.comhubermanlab to claim a free Element sample pack with the purchase of any Element drink mix. Again, that's drinkelement.com/hubermanlab to claim a free sample pack. Today's episode is also brought to us by Waking Up. Waking Up is a meditation app that includes hundreds of meditation programs, mindfulness trainings, yoga nidra sessions, and NSDR, non sleep deep rest protocols.
几年前我开始使用Waking Up应用，尽管自青少年时期我就坚持常规冥想，约十年前开始接触瑜伽休息术。我父亲曾向我推荐这款应用（后来发现正是Waking Up），它能教授不同时长的冥想，提供多种冥想类型引导大脑和身体进入不同状态，他非常喜爱。尝试后我也发现其极为实用——有时我仅有几分钟冥想时间，有时则更长。我尤其欣赏它能探索各类冥想方式，不仅深化对意识的认知理解，还能根据所选冥想让身心进入多样状态。该应用还收录多种瑜伽休息术课程，对于不了解的人而言，瑜伽休息术是一种保持身体静止而思维活跃的练习。
Started using the Waking Up app a few years ago because even though I've been doing regular meditation since my teens and I started doing Yoga Nidra about a decade ago, my dad mentioned to me that he had found an app, turned out to be the Waking Up app, which could teach you meditations of different durations and that had a lot of different types of meditations to place the brain and body into different states and that he liked it very much. So I gave the Waking Up app a try and I too found it to be extremely useful because sometimes I only have a few minutes to meditate, other times I have longer to meditate. And indeed, I love the fact that I can explore different types of meditation to bring about different levels of understanding about consciousness, but also to place my brain and body into lots of different kinds of states depending on which meditation I do. I also love that the Waking Up app has lots of different types of Yoga Nidra sessions. For those of you who don't know, Yoga Nidra is a process of lying very still, keeping an active mind.
这与大多数冥想形式截然不同。大量科学数据表明，瑜伽休息术及类似的非睡眠深度休息（NSDR）能显著恢复认知与体能水平，仅需短短十分钟即可见效。若想试用Waking Up应用，请访问wakingup.com/huberman获取30天免费试用。重申一次，通过wakingup.com/huberman可享30天免费试用。现在有请大卫·戈金斯参与对话。大卫·戈金斯，欢迎你。
It's very different than most meditations And there's excellent scientific data to show that Yoga Nidra and something similar to it called non sleep deep rest or NSDR can greatly restore levels of cognitive and physical energy, even with just a short ten minute session. If you'd like to try the Waking Up app, you can go to wakingup.com/huberman and access a free thirty day trial. Again, that's wakingup.com/huberman to access a free thirty day trial. And now for my discussion with David Goggins. David Goggins, welcome.
老兄，再次见到你真高兴。
My man, good to see you again, man.
见到你太好了。记得是2016年末或2017年初，你曾到访我在斯坦福的实验室。是的先生。当天晚些时候我们还在圣何塞做了些工作。天哪，现在到处都能见到你，但还不够尽兴。今天你能来真是太好了。
Great to see you. It was late twenty sixteen, early twenty seventeen, I believe when you were in my lab at Stanford. Yes, sir. We did a little work later that day down in San Jose and gosh, see you everywhere, but it's not enough. So great to have you here.
谢谢邀请我上节目，兄弟。
Thanks for having me on, brother.
是啊。你体现了纪律性和迎难而上的精神。
Yeah. You embody discipline and doing hard things.
没错。
Right.
我觉得你可以直接开始说'对'。我们就直奔主题吧，大胆说出真相。但在正式开麦前，我们聊到了学习这件事。
I think you just start right off with Yep. Let's just go there. The bold truth. But right before we went hot mics Right. We were talking about learning.
对，现在你正花时间学习一些东西，做那些大多数人通常不会联想到大卫·戈金斯会做的事。
Right. Right now, you're spending some time learning and doing things that I think most people probably don't typically associate David Goggins with.
是的。
Right.
不如你来跟我们说说这个？
Why don't you tell us about that?
嗯，大多数人只把我看作是一个边跑边喊的人。虽然我确实那么做是为了激励大家，但人们并不了解我的一天是分时段安排的。我锻炼、吃饭、睡觉，但大部分时间都在学习。比如，我身处医疗领域，在加拿大是一名急救员，但我花大量时间深入研究每一个细节，因为我不只想当个普通的急救员，学习静脉、动脉和心脏如何泵血这些基础知识。我要学到能真正挽救生命的程度。
Well, most people just look at me as the guy that runs and yells as he's running. And that's, while I do that, you know, to motivate people, but people don't understand that my day is broken up into segments. I work out, I eat, I sleep, but I spend most of my time studying. So like, I'm in the medical world, I'm a, you know, paramedic in Canada, but I spend a lot of my time trying to nuke every single thing about it because I'm not trying to just be a paramedic, learn about veins and arteries and how the heart pumps and stuff like that. I'm trying to learn to the point where I can save someone's life.
尽管全球的急救员都在做同样的事，但我想成为那种能精准剖析病情、判断该用什么药的急救员，试图理解病症背后的运作机制。所以我投入了大量时间。
And even though paramedics are doing that all over the world, I'm trying to be that paramedic that can really dissect exactly what's going on and figure out, you know, what medication goes where, just trying to, you know, just trying to learn, you know, the algorithm of what's going on, man. So I spent a lot of time with it.
我特别喜欢'机制'这个词，因为当我教授生物学或学习任何与生物相关，尤其是人体知识时——
I love the word algorithm because when I teach biology or try and learn anything that's related to biology and especially the human body
没错。
Right.
我需要知道名词。是的。但动词才是关键。这正是你所说的重点。比如仅仅指出某个脑区的位置，并不能解释它们如何协同工作。
I need to know the nouns. Yep. But it's the verbs that matter. And that's really what you're talking about. Like like just saying that that sits there, that brain part there doesn't tell you how it all works together.
确实不能。
No.
那么你的学习流程是怎样的？如果我们放个摄像机在房间里，再装个麦克风来监听你的内心独白。
So what does your process for studying look like? Like if we dropped a camera in the room, but a microphone into that, into your inner dialogue.
没错。
Right.
天啊，谁不想这样呢？但如果我们把麦克风放进你的内心独白里，你早上醒来看着书本时，是不是真的会说‘新的一天开始了，好，开始学习吧’？还是说，你在谈论体力工作时提到的那种抗拒感，是不是偶尔也会出现在学习上？
Gosh, wouldn't wouldn't we all love that? But if we dropped a microphone into your inner dialogue, are you waking up looking at the books and going, yeah, fresh day. Right. Let's learn. Or is some of the same resistance that you've talked about coming up around physical work, is that coming up from time to time?
你知道吗？一开始我很紧张。我要说实话——我真的不聪明。我的意思是，我天生就有注意力缺陷多动障碍（ADD/ADHD）。
You know what? I was nervous at first. I'm gonna keep the motherf I'm gonna keep it real. I'm gonna So keep it I'm not a real smart guy. And what I mean by that is I was born with ADD, ADHD.
我的大脑无法记住信息。无论是跑步还是举重，我都没有什么天赋，完全是垫底的水平。人们永远不会相信这一点，他们爱怎么想就怎么想吧。
My brain cannot retain information. I'm not some genetic freak when it comes to running, when it comes to lifting weights. I am absolutely the bottom of the barrel. And people will never believe me. And they can just, you know, whatever.
信不信由你。所以当你问我学习对我来说是什么样子时，我不得不一遍又一遍地反复看同一页内容。而珍妮弗在考我的时候，她看一眼就能记住——她原本对内容一无所知，却在考我的过程中自己学会了。这简直是我大脑运作方式最让人崩溃的地方。
Believe what you want to believe. So when you ask me this question about what does studying look like for me, I have to go over the same page over and over and over and over again. While Jennifer can look at that page while she's, you know, quizzing me, she'll learn it right then as she's she didn't know anything about it. She will quiz herself or quiz me and learn it as she's quizzing me. It's the most frustrating thing in the world how my brain works.
所以我只能拿着纸笔坐在那里，每天把所有内容都写下来。我会反复研读同一页直到通过书写形成图像记忆。之后还要重新复习，先掌握大体内容，再抠细节部分。
So do what is I literally sit there with a pen and paper and I have my books and I go through and have to write everything down every single day. I will study the same page until it's photographic memory from writing the same thing down. And then from there, I'll go back through and relearn again. So I'll learn the bulk of it. But then I'll go through and learn the small things within that.
比如遇到药物名称，我会先学会这个药怎么读——因为这些药名可不像‘沙丁胺醇’那么简单，都是些很长的单词。我得先学会正确发音。
So if it's a medication, I'll learn what the medication does. I'll first I'll learn how to even say the medication. Because these medications aren't like, you know, like albuterol. No, it's very big words. I'll go through learn how to say the name.
然后我会去了解剂量是多少。接着我会继续，这就像每天的例行公事。不是那种‘哦，我懂了，随便过一遍就行’。不，没有什么是‘我懂了’那么简单。
Then I'll go through learn what the dose is. Then I'll go through and this is like every single day. It's not like, oh, I got it. Let's just go through. No, nothing is I got it.
每一件小事都是如此。所以我迫不及待想加入这场对话，因为我生活中做的每件事都很糟糕。每件事都很糟糕。这就是为什么当我24岁、体重300磅时，并没有那种‘让我们去当海豹突击队员并减减肥’的顿悟。不，我知道我的一生都将是一场挣扎，所以我干脆无视它。
Every single thing. So I can't wait to get in this conversation because everything I do in life, it sucks. Everything I do in life, it sucks. That's why when I was three hundred pounds and 24 years old, it wasn't like I had some big epiphany of let's just go be a Navy SEAL and let's lose some weight. No, I knew my entire life was going to be a struggle, which is why I just ignored it.
我说过，我甚至不想跳进这堆烂摊子去学习阅读、写作、记忆，或者变成另一个我。但在这个过程中，某些事改变了我。我意识到这就是为什么我不同情任何人。在这个播客里，人们真的不会喜欢我，因为他们会觉得我在撒谎、瞎编或夸大其词。不，我确实是地球上最底层的人，没有天赋，没有学习能力。
And I said, I'm not even trying to jump off into this shit and learn how to read, how to write, how to memorize, how to become something I am not. But through that process, something happened to me. And I realized this is why I feel sorry for no one. In this podcast, they're going to really not like me because people are going to think that I am maybe lying or maybe fibbing or exaggerating. No, I am literally I was the lowest form on earth, no talent, no ability to learn.
我切身体会过什么是谷底，以及如何从那里爬起来。所以关于学习的问题，对我来说简直是折磨。而且我本不必这么做。想想看，我49岁，是个千万富翁，我完全可以什么都不做。
And I literally know what it is to be rock bottom and to build that up. So that question about learning, it's a pain in my ass. And I don't have to do it. So think about it, I'm 49 years old and I'm a multimillionaire. I don't have to do anything.
所以我成长过程中唯一想的就是：‘天啊，我迫不及待想有一天不再需要做这些事。’但随着年龄增长，这却成了一种生活方式。我每天的做事方式就是我的日常，这是一种纪律，一种习惯，是我做出的选择。而这个选择就是：你愿意牺牲什么？
So all I thought about when I was growing up is, man, I can't wait to one day get to the point where I no longer have to do this stuff. But what happens, I got older, it became a way of living. So how I do every day is how I do every day. It's a discipline, it's a regimen, was a choice I made. And the choice I made was, what are you willing to sacrifice?
你愿意放弃什么来发掘作为人类的全部潜能？我愿意付出一切去实现这一点。所以学习绝不是儿戏。
And what are you willing to give up to find every bit of who you are as a human being? And I was willing to give everything to do that. So studying is no joke.
我很欣赏你在学习。记得几年前听过你的某个采访或播客，你随口说‘不知道下一步要做什么，也许当个科学家’。我当时就心想‘没错’，因为我对你有点了解。
I love that you're studying. I recall a few years ago, I heard some interview or podcast with you, and you just threw out, like, I don't know what I'll do next. Maybe I'll be a scientist. And I and I went, yeah. I was like because I knew because I know you a bit.
没错。我看到你在外面的工作，但如果你决定要做这件事，我们之前就应该见过面。对。而学习医学，这正是你现在所做的。是的。
Right. And I see your work out there, but we'd met before that if you decided that you were going to do it. Right. And learning medicine, which is what you're doing. Right.
学习人体生理学是如此细致。非常细致。外面的人们必须明白，当你看着教科书，看到静脉和毛细血管用不同颜色标注时，实际上人体被打开时，它们并不是不同颜色的。
Learning human physiology is so detailed. Very. And people out there have to understand when you look at a textbook and you see the veins and the capillaries different colors, when the body is open, they're not different colors.
对。对。
Right. Right.
所以我的意思是，有些东西有不同的颜色对比，但并不像所有东西都被标记的那样，当
So I mean, some things have different color contrast, but it's not like it's all labeled when
你打开它时。确实如此。
you pop it open. Exactly.
而亲手写下东西的过程对你来说很重要。你会回去阅读那些笔记吗？你在跑步时也会思考那些内容吗？你是否在分割你的一天？比如学习结束后，你会出去跑步并思考其他事情吗？
And the process of writing things down by hand is important for you. Do you go so you go back and read those notes. Do you think about that stuff on your runs too? Are you segmenting your day? Like when you're done studying, are you heading out for a run and thinking about other things?
或者你仍在脑海中复习那些材料？
Or are you still rehearsing the material in your head?
所以当我记笔记时，我边写边记，实际上我现在正低头看着这张桌子，因为我又开始写了，此刻我就在那里，一边和你说话一边写。我用记忆第69页的方式记录。所以我写下它，让那一页的内容与我的大脑同步。此刻我正看着脑海中的那本书。
So when I write it down, I write it down and I'm able to I'm actually looking down at this table right now because I'm back to write so I'm actually there right now as I'm speaking to you. I write it down in a way that I'm memorizing page 69. So I'm writing it down. So then writing it down in that page sync together in my brain. So I'm looking at the book in my brain right now.
对我来说就是这样运作的。我必须反复这样做，直到那页内容深深刻在脑海里。参加这些国家级考试成为护理人员或高级急救员时，我简直就像在脑海里翻书页一样。
So like, that's just how it works for me. And I have to do it over and over again. So that page is stuck in my mind. So I'm literally flipping through pages as I'm taking these tests. And I'm taking these national tests to become a paramedic or become a advanced EMT or whatever.
考试时，我真实地在脑海中翻找那一页的位置。能做到这点，全靠我书写的方式和页面布局。跑步时我却什么都想不起来——因为跑步时我的思维线路完全专注于当下动作。
I'm literally as I'm taking that test, I'm going through and I'm like, now flipping pages in my head where that page was. And how I do that is just from how I write it and how it's on the page. When I run, I can't recall any of it. I cannot I cannot bring any of that because I'm running. How my mind is wired now is that everything I do is what I do.
就像现在跑步需要的高度专注：我并非优秀跑者，还带着旧伤。每次前二十分钟都一瘸一拐，因为多次膝盖手术导致身体扭曲。
Because the focus it takes for me to, like right now, I'm running. I'm not like a great runner. I'm not like injury free. So like my first twenty minutes of the run, I'm limping. I'm literally limping because I've had several knee surgeries and my body was twisted.
现在身体正在矫正。旁人看来我跑步跛行得厉害。确实如此，这副躯体已经受损，所以我全神贯注于如何让残破身体发挥最佳状态。人生每个阶段，我都完全聚焦于当下所为。
And so now it's untwisting. So people look at me, it looks like he's limping, you know, like limping when he runs. I am limping when I run. My body's jacked up, so I'm focusing on how to get the best out of a broken body. So everything I do is a total focus on what I'm doing at point in my life.
看来你已经成功克服了之前提到的注意力缺陷障碍。你描述的状态像条深沟，V字型的沟壑。想象有个滚珠轴承，只能沿着沟槽前后滚动，不会在凹槽底部乱晃——就像高度专注的状态。
So it seems like you've really trained away or somehow gotten away from the ADD that you mentioned. Because what you described is a deep trench, like a V shaped trench. I'm imagining like there's a ball bearing and it's like, and it can only go forward in that trench. Right. Or back and it goes forward.
这种全神贯注的感觉，和你全力奔跑时的专注状态相似吗？
It's not like sliding around at the like concave at the bottom. Right. Like attention. So it's like you've trained that up. Is there a similar feeling when you're in the full focus of running versus full focus of studying?
是不是感觉有点像，哦对，还是同样的节奏，但内容不同？还是说这完全是另一个世界？
Is it kind of feel like, Oh yeah, that's the same groove, but different thing? Or is it just completely different world?
这完全是另一个世界。对我来说两者都是煎熬，但煎熬的方式截然不同。记得我上学时——永远忘不了，大概是三年级的时候。那时候ADD、ADHD还没现在这样，你知道，有药可治或有应对方案。他们只想把你送进特殊学校。
It's a completely different world. Like it's just both of them for me is suffering, but suffering a whole different way. Like when I was going through school, I'll never forget, I think I was in third grade. And back then, you know, ADD, ADHD, wasn't like, you know, here's this medicine or here's this thing. They want to put you in a special school.
所以我当时学习落后太多，他们的解决方案就是：干脆把他送特殊学校吧，反正他永远学不会。而在这个过程中，我内心抗拒——我不想进特殊学校，不想被区别对待。正因如此，我从未服用过药物，至今都没用过治疗药物。
So for me, I was so far behind in learning that their big thing was, let's just put him in a special school because he'll never learn. And through that process of like, I don't want to be in a special school. I don't want to be treated any differently. It really like, I never took medication. I've never taken medication for this.
这就是为什么现在你能看到我直视你的眼睛。特鲁曼到底在说什么鬼话？所以我不同情那些ADHD患者或有学习障碍的人。有些确实无法克服，但大多数情况其实可以。
That's why right now you see me looking right in your eyes. What the hell is is, you know, is Truman saying right now? And that's why I don't feel bad for people who have ADHD, who have learning disabilities. And some are impossible because you just can't. But a lot of them you can.
但人们不愿经历专注的过程，不愿训练自己真正集中注意力。这正是我的观点常被误解的原因——当我激动地说出'妈的'或脏话时，那是我迸发的激情，因为对我来说理解一个句子都要耗尽全身力气。所以当我谈论大卫·戈金斯时，不可能心平气和。因为每天醒来，我都清楚找到自己伟大之处需要经历怎样的旅程。
And but people don't want to go through the process of focus, of teaching yourself how to truly focus. This is where my message gets lost. It gets lost because I may say, you know, MF or F, you know, I may be because that's the passion that comes out of me because that's it takes everything for me to learn a sentence. So when I speak about David Goggins, I can't speak about David Goggins in a way that's just calm and cool. Because when I wake up, I know the journey that it takes for me to find my greatness.
这很难。没有什么是容易的。不存在什么'醒来就自然而然做到'。我每天看着别人轻松过日子，而我能达到今天的成就，付出了全部心血。所以当我谈论这些时，随着话题深入，你会看到我太阳穴暴起青筋——
And it's hard. Nothing is easy. Nothing just like, oh, I wake up and I just do this or I do that or it just, no, I watch people every day go through life and it's so easy. For me to be where I'm at today, it takes every bit of me. So when I speak about it, and as I get going here, you'll start seeing me, the temple will rise.
激情会喷涌而出，因为我又回到了那个状态。我正在做每天为成为更好的人而做的事。没有什么是容易的。跑步就是跑步，很痛苦，但你有选择的权利。
The passion will come out because I'm back there. I'm doing what I do every day to become a human being. And so nothing is easy. Like running is running. It sucks, but you have a choice to make.
你想坐下来变回从前那个自己吗？不。所以这就是代价。这就是人们对我的误解，他们永远不会明白，因为他们从未成为过戴维·戈金斯。这就是我能做到这些的代价。
Do you want to sit down and go back to that guy you once were? No. So this is what it takes. This is what it takes that misunderstanding of people and they'll never get it because they were never David Goggins. So that is what it takes for me to do what I do.
对你而言可能需要不同的东西。对我来说，一切都必须投入钻研。一切都必须专注于此。无论身处何地都必须贯彻。它必须如影随形。
It may take you something differently. So for me, everything has to be in the study. Everything has to be into this. Everything has to be everywhere I am. It has to be there.
我的专注力就在当下。所以自罗根访谈后，这是我新书出版以来第二次接受播客。我没时间浪费。因为若要成就伟大，我追求的不是金钱最大化或名声最大化。我做这些只是希望有人能理解我说：我能从这个家伙身上获得成长。
Me focused where I am. That's why you're my second podcast I've done since Rogan since the book came out. I don't have time for that shit. Because if I want to be great, I'm not trying to maximize money or maximize people knowing me. I do these things because maybe someone out there will understand me and get it and say, I can grow from this guy.
而其他人永远不会懂。
And others just won't.
听起来你对「摩擦」深有体会。这个词此刻就像加粗高亮带下划线的标语悬在我们头顶——摩擦即成长。没错，摩擦。
Sounds like friction is something you're very familiar with. I just It's a word just as I feel like it's like cast above us right now in boldface, highlighted, underlined letters. Friction is growth. Friction. Yes.
想象清晨起床时，戴维·戈金斯走向咖啡机的场景：'早安啊阳光'。而你告诉我从睁眼那一刻起，摩擦就开始了。
Like you're up in the morning and I imagine David Goggins going to the coffee maker, out, good morning sunshine. And you're telling me from eyelids open, there's friction.
没错。这正是人们他妈的永远搞不懂的。关于戴维·戈金斯的最大误解就像——无论你信不信上帝（我信），祂把我这只实验室老鼠扔到地球上时说：让我看看这个被虐到学习障碍、身体畸形、基因缺陷还带着镰状细胞病的废物，怎么突破所有参军 disqualify 的条件。
Yes. And that is the thing that people don't they don't fucking get. The biggest misunderstanding about David Goggins of all time, it's like whether you believe in God or not, I do. He put this lab rat, which is me, on this planet, and said, Let me fucking see what a beat up, abused kid who has who can barely learn, barely learn, who has a twisted body, up, messed up genetics, sickle cell, this and that. Let me give him everything that pretty much disqualifies you from the military.
但那时候，这些并非额外之物。让我们把他放进这种情境，看看会有什么结果。为此，需要摩擦。你不会早晨醒来就直奔咖啡机。事实上，有时你甚至不睡觉。
But back then, it wasn't extras. And let's put him in this and see what comes out of it. So to do that, friction. You don't wake up in the morning time and go to the coffee maker. Matter of fact, sometimes you don't even sleep.
真正需要的是当凌晨两点，我的大脑还在想着那该死的药物。我必须起床翻书确认那是什么药，我是怎么记住它的。这就是我每天操蛋的生活。所以我没训练成拳击手，或者训练别人时我会说，你根本不知道自己有多伟大，因为你只用了极小一部分潜能。如果人们学会专注，这就是可能达到的境界。
What it requires is when I'm at 02:00, it's 02:00 in the morning And my brain is thinking about a fucking drug. And I got to get up and look in my book to see what that drug is, how I remember it. And this is every day of my fucking life. That's why I'm not trained a fighter or I trained someone like, you have no fucking idea how great you really are because you are using such minimal, minimal of what you have. And if people can learn to focus, this is what's possible.
虽然这可能不太美好，有人想给我拍纪录片。我说不。我希望你们拍的是真实的我。因为我要让普通人来剖析我——他的生活糟透了。
While it may not be pretty, like people want to do a documentary on me. I go, No. I want you to do a documentary on me. Because I will have normal everyday people picking me apart. His life is miserable.
谁愿意这样活着？看他那样简直疯了，就像有病似的，精神不正常。最让我愤怒的是普通人用他们的标准来评判像我这样的人，却不明白从无到有获取伟大需要付出什么。如果你选择这条路，就必须倾尽所有。
Who wants to live like that? He looks it's crazy how he it's almost like he's sick. He's psychotic. The most frustrating thing in the world for me is when normal people judge a man like myself on what it really takes to extract greatness from nothing. It takes every bit of who you are if you choose that route.
如果不愿意？圣诞快乐。做你该做的吧。但对我来说，就像我说的，我保持真实。我来这里不是为了空谈表演，我写这些书时，会刻意弱化大卫·戈金斯的光环。
If you don't, Merry Christmas. Do what you got to do. But yeah, all these things for me, like like I told you, I'm keep it real. I'm not coming here to talk about like, you know, perform without purpose. Because I go through when I write these books, I go through and try to dumb down David Goggins.
如何让普通人理解——虽然我也是普通人，但我发现了多数人不愿发现的真相？如何用这个疯狂的、病态般锤炼过的大脑与人对话，给予他们一些东西？为此我与詹妮弗花了数年写下：无目的表演、磨砺心智、武装头脑、饼干罐理论、责任镜等——这些人们真正能用上的东西。不。
How can I give normal people and I'm normal, but I found something that most don't want to find? How can I speak to people and give them something from this crazy psychotic brain that I've developed? How can I give them that? So I sit down with Jennifer for years and write down perform without purpose, callous your mind, armor your mind, the cookie jar, the accountability mirror, shit that people can fucking use in their lives. No.
不。我很高兴对你有帮助，但我这种野蛮的生活方式，你必须经历的近乎偏执的追求，这种成就伟大必需的痴狂，兄弟，这些没法写进他妈的书里。你写不了。你无法用文字承载。
No. I'm glad it helps you, but the barbaric life that I live, that you have to live, the almost obsession that you must have to be great, you can't put that shit in a fucking book, bro. You can't put in a book. You can't. You can't write about
它。这必须亲身体验。
it. It has to be experienced.
这必须亲身体验。而且即便体验过后，也无法将其写入书中，那样会让人觉得他需要被关起来
It has to be experienced. And you can't even after you experience it, to write it in the book, it would seem like he needs to be locked
起来。太血腥了。
up. Too gory.
太血腥了。对于一个每天每时每刻都在病态地试图从某件事中榨取更多的人来说，这毫无意义。他不断思考，始终如一地自律，从不偏离道路。无论身上受了什么伤，他都能想办法克服。这是征服者的心态。
It's too gory. It doesn't make sense for a guy that everything, every sick in the day, he is trying to extract more from something. He's constantly thinking, he's constantly, constantly disciplined, never going off the path. Whatever is injured on him, he figures away. It's a conqueror's mindset.
而真正能理解这一点的人，即便有，也寥寥无几。比如，我快50岁了。三十年来我一直如此。比如，以什么为乐？你永远不会...我...我...这些问题，我不明白。
And very few people, if any, can really understand what that is. Like, I'm almost 50. And I've been this way for almost thirty years. Like, what do do for fun? You you would never I I I These questions, I don't get them.
我不理解它们。我不...所以，是的。
I don't understand them. I don't so, yeah.
我有时会被问到这个问题。当你为了乐趣开始听所有这些播客、阅读或锻炼时。对吧。所以其中有些能引起共鸣。但我认为你描述的过程真正不同寻常之处在于
I get asked that sometimes. When you, for fun, start listening off all this stuff like podcast and reading or working out. Right. So some of that resonates. But I think what's so truly unusual about what you're describing, your process,
是
is
要知道，从一开始就很难。是的。我不得不问，体重三百磅时，用你描述的那些词——你之前说过——在你生命的早期某个阶段，你有说谎的倾向。
that, you know, from go, it's hard. Yep. And I have to ask was being three hundred pounds, having a cent I'm using the words you've described. You've said it before. You had a tendency at one point in your life early on, tell lies.
试图获得他人的认可。
Try and get people's approval.
我拼命努力。
I got my ass off.
疯狂的发型，寻求关注，然而所有这些触发了一些如今看来非同寻常的东西。
Crazy haircuts, attention seeking, and yet all of that triggered something that now is, you know, is extraordinary.
你
Do
认为那些苦难是触发转变的必要条件吗？
you think those hardships were necessary to flip the switch?
我不知道它们是否必要，但那件事让我感觉很不舒服。这很简单。小时候被赋予的大脑，让我很容易回家后就开始想：今天我要怎么当个怪胎？今天我要怎么以怪胎的形象出现在学校？这不需要我回家翻开书本，想着‘我得花一整年才能学会这该死的页面’。
I don't know if they were necessary, but it was something that made me feel I didn't feel good. It was easy. The brain that I was given as a child, it was easy to go home and think about what, how do I wanna be a freak today? How do I wanna show up to school today and be a freak? It didn't require me going home and opening a book up saying, it's gonna take me all year to learn this fucking page.
所以我没有去学那一页，而是学会了如何成为一个角色。也许那个我创造的角色——那个三百磅重、缺乏安全感、假装‘装到成功为止’的家伙，那个说着‘让我成为你朋友，让我用谎言换你好感’的家伙。当你拥有任何男子气概、女性特质、人性、灵魂或精神时…我那时几乎毫无自尊，但正是这点为我打开了门。因为每天你都在扮演角色，每天都是小丑，每天翻开西班牙语书、科学书或英语书时，那些文字看起来就像天书。
So instead of learning that page, I learned how to become a character. And maybe that character that I created, that three hundred pound insecure guy that used to fake fake it till I make it type of guy, you know, let me become your friend. Let me lie to you until you like me type of guy. When when you have any kind of any manhood, womanhood, a human being, a soul, a spirit, any I had no I had I must had this this much pride because that's exactly what opened the door for me. Because every day you were a character, every day you were a clown, every day you open that Spanish book or that science book or English book, like you looked at it, it was like it looked like a foreign language.
你会问自己：该从哪里开始？显然，这种痛苦是必要的。我越谈论它，就越意识到其必要性——因为我被‘这就是我的生存现状’这个事实所困扰，而你不得不与之共存。这种状态我持续了很多年。
And you're saying, where do I start? Where do I start? And obviously, it was necessary. The more I talk about it, it was necessary because what happened is I became haunted by the mere fact that this is my existence, and you gotta live with that. Now I lived there for a lot of years.
于是我坐下来对自己说：好吧，我明白要付出什么了。当我这个烂摊子般的人坐下来，列出一长串像这张桌子般的清单——记录着要如何成为能勉强糊口、月入一千美元的普通人时，那种感觉就像：天啊伙计，我才16、17岁啊。
And so I sat back and said, Okay, all right. I know what this takes. And when you sit back as fucked up as I was, and I had a laundry list, a table like this of what I have to do to become just a human being that can make ends meet, that can make $1,000 a month just to get there. It was like, oh my god, dude. Like, how did I'm 16, 17.
我不会阅读，不会写作。我的天…我落后得太多了。而我的大脑只会想着抑郁。
I can't read. I can't write. And I oh my God. I'm so behind the power curve. And my brain is about being depressed.
父亲殴打母亲，家里一团糟。学校里孩子们叫我黑鬼，我只能想：老天，我他妈该怎么办？没有人过来对我说‘嘿，你能做到的’。这一切全靠我自己。有些人会好奇这个冷漠的家伙从哪来的。
And my dad beat my mom's now home. And kids are calling me nigger at school and I'm like, oh my god, man, what the fuck do I do? And it wasn't like someone came around and said, hey, man, you can do this. This is all me. Some people know where's this cold man come from.
我不是刻意冷漠。这就是我生活的现实，也是很多人的现实。是的，我必须经历这些被困扰的过程，才能淬炼出今天的我。那种如影随形的困扰至今仍在。
I'm not trying to be cold. It's the reality of my life. It's the reality of a lot of people's lives. And so, yeah, that had to happen for me to be haunted, to be haunted, to pull out, to extract the guy to him today. That haunting is something that's still there today.
因为无论你进步多少，无论你如何改变自己，这些都不是永恒的。你醒来只会说，天啊，伙计，你是大卫·戈金斯。你打破纪录，你做这个做那个。人们想知道，你怎么能如此坚韧，永远不把那该死的东西关掉？
Because no matter how much you improve, no matter how much you change who you are, it's not permanent. You'll just wake up and say, Oh my God, man, you're David Goggins. You break records. You do this, you do that. People wanna know, how are you able to just be so hard to never turn the fucking thing off?
因为一旦关掉，我就会立刻变回原来的大卫·戈金斯。而那个人正是我每天不断与之斗争的。这是一个选择。而这个选择让你被误解，让你显得疯狂。
Because once it turns off, I go right back to the David Goggins that is. And that's the guy that I'm constantly fighting every day. And it's a choice. And that choice makes you misunderstood. It makes you crazy.
这就是我他妈讨厌社交媒体的原因。2013年2月，人们希望我写书。我在2018年2月才完成。花了五年时间。我没做的原因是，当时我坐在桌前，珍妮弗也在场。
That's why I hate fucking social media. In 02/2013, people wanted me to write my book. I did it in 02/2018. Took five years. And the reason why I didn't do it, I sat at the table and Jennifer was there.
这是在她开始为我工作之前，我们开始约会或什么的。当时在场的人都跟我说，老兄，你得玩社交媒体。而我心想，去你的，那玩意儿有毒。
This is before I I I she started working for me. I started dating or whatever. And all these people were there, and they're like, man, you got to go on social media. And I was like, fuck you, man. Like, I'm not that's it's poison.
它有毒是因为我知道自己付出了什么才走到今天。而现在要让这些普通人——肥胖、懒惰，正是我曾经的样子——来评判我。我太清楚了，因为我曾经就是他们。我所有的努力和奉献，却要任由某个普通人吃着布朗尼蛋糕，喝着咖啡，对我评头论足：'他肯定不快乐'。你知道每天早晨穿上这双鞋有多难吗？
It's poison because I knew what I did to get where I am. And I'm gonna have these people, these normal everyday people, fat, lazy, is exactly who I was judging me. Because I know it because I was once them. All my hard work, my dedication, I'm gonna have some normal dude get his little brownies, little ding dong, ho ho twinkie, sit there with his coffee, picking me apart at, oh, he must be unhappy. He's just do you know how hard it is to put these shoes on every damn morning?
我不需要你们来剖析我。所以，没错，这其中牵扯太多，让我觉得'去他妈的'。我永远不想和这事有任何瓜葛。总之...
I don't have you pick me apart. So, yeah, there's there's a there's so much that goes into this that I was like, fuck this. I never want anything to do with it. So anyway.
我不是心理学家。
I'm not a psychologist.
但是
But
通过你所写的文字、在社交媒体及其他地方的发言、播客内容，尤其是此刻在这里的讲述，了解你的故事。
knowing your story from what you've written, what you've said on social media and elsewhere, podcasts, and here now especially.
没错。
Right.
这让我感到震撼。坦白说，也牵动了我的心弦。我明白这不是你的本意，但在你的童年及青年时期，竟从未有人为你抵挡世界的风雨。不。我忘了在哪里听过，如果一个孩子哪怕只有一个人相信他。
It's amazing to me. And frankly, pulls at my heartstrings a little bit. I realize that's not what you're trying to do, but that in the course of your childhood and in your young adulthood that no one ever got between you and the world. No. I forget where I heard it that, like, if a kid has just one person that believes in them.
是的。
Right.
你知道，我虽然也经历过坎坷，但遇到了很棒的教练和导师。
You know, and I had my trials and tribulations, but I had great coaches, great mentors.
对。
Right.
我主动依附于他们。即使他们未必发现我，我也会找到他们。
I attached to them. I found them if they didn't necessarily find me.
对。
Right.
但我逐渐明白，你的处境是——从来没人说过，嘿，我会站在你身旁或挡在你前面。
But I'm realizing that your situation was no one's ever said, hey, I'm gonna stand here next to you or get in front of you.
没错。
Right.
竖起防护盾。
Put a shield up.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以这就像你拥有不同的版本——那都是你，但有些版本的自己比如你熟悉社交媒体，而2013年的我可能就没这种能力，电话+1, 415-1617。
And so it's almost like you've got these different ver it's all you, but there's versions of yourself that like you knew social media, like I don't know that I have the wherewithal in 2013, +1, 415-1617.
对。
Right.
在做这一切的同时超越自我，因为我脑子里已经装了太多事情。没错。
To get in front of myself while doing all this because I've already got so much going on in here. Right.
大致是这样吧？虽然没错，但我积攒了太多愤怒，至今未消。这愤怒永远不会消散，对这个世界的普通人而言。因为当你像我一样深陷泥潭时——如果有人救过我，请站出来向全世界宣告吧。根本没人。
Is that about right? Is right, but I had developed a lot of anger, and I still have it. And it will never go away for the normal human beings of this world. Because when you put yourself in the sewer like I was in, and please, if someone saved me, come out and announce it to the world. There's no one.
根本没人。所以当你知道这点后，看着眼前这群聪明人围坐桌边，在我40岁（2000年时大概40岁吧，现在49了）对我的人生指手画脚，试图用这套毒药告诉我什么是对的。所以，你说的没错。
There's no one. So when you know that, and then I'm sitting at a table with all these smart people who are telling me what to do and shit and guiding me through my life now when I'm 40 years old, you know, 2,000 I don't know, 40 years old. Now I'm 49. And I'm looking at them all, they're and they're now trying to guide me on what's right, on this poison. And so, what you say is right.
但对我来说，更重要的是现在明白了。我不需要你来指引未来。我知道什么对我好，什么有害。为此我耗尽了全部专注力。我了解社交媒体，人们爱炫耀是因为只想展示生活光鲜面。
But for me, it was more of, know now. I don't need you to guide my future. I know what's good for me and what's bad for me. And for me, it took every bit of focus I could. I know social media, that's why people love to go on there because they want to show you the good side of life.
我不教人美好生活。所以2016年回归时，我决定要教会你们：对大多数人而言，生活本质就是地狱。当人们炫耀豪车豪宅度假时——那些固然美好快乐——我要展示你们正在经历的阴暗面。
I'm not teaching good side of life. So I had to figure out a way when I came on 2016 of teaching you what life really is for the majority of us is hell. And so while people love to show you the cars and the house and the vacations and shit, all that's good. All that's happy. I'm gonna show you this side that I know most you're going through.
人们伪装得很好。但我不想再隐藏了。我他妈藏了整整二十四年。所以现在我说：我们可以谈论任何你想谈的。因为作为人类，我们首先要学会——我成长过程中也深受其害——
And people hide very well. I don't wanna hide anymore. I hid it for twenty four fucking years. So that's why now I told you, we can talk about whatever you want. Because as human beings, the one we the first thing we have to learn also studied real bad growing up.
所以如果你偶尔听到我口吃，那是因为那也是我生活的一部分。有趣的是，人类总想展示最好的一面，隐藏最糟的一面。而我要教你们如何展现脆弱。因为这才是自我救赎的唯一方式。不是靠我来这儿推销几本该死的书就能解决的。
So if you hear me stutter every now and then, it's because that was part of my life also. So it's funny, human beings want show you the best side, and they want to hide the worst side. For me, I'm going teach you how to be vulnerable. Because that's the only way you fix yourself. You don't fix yourself by coming out here and me selling you some fucking books.
所以我没带书。我忘带了。很高兴有人从书里有所收获。但我要你们明白，成长唯一的方式就是审视自己，像我当年对着比这还长的餐桌质问：我他妈到底要怎么做才能出人头地？
That's why I don't have them. I forgot them. I'm glad people got something from the book. I want you to learn that the only way you grow is how to look at yourself and say, okay, like I did, Table longer than this. What the fuck I have to do to get somewhere?
那上面没一件好事。完全没有。对，我忘了说——我热爱打篮球。
There was nothing good on there. Nothing. Yeah. I love playing basketball. I left that out.
那是我热爱的事。但我不在乎这个。这破事儿根本排不上清单。因为我要遵循的清单，是让我能坐在这里与你们对话的清单，告诉你们这些曾经的普通人：成功之路看起来有多丑陋。
That's something I love to do. I don't care about that. That that didn't make the fucking list. Because the list that I had to live by was it was the very list that was to get me at this table with you, to talk to you, to the normal human beings was I once was about how you can get somewhere and how it looks. It looks very ugly.
没有他妈的热血澎湃。没有该死的动力满满。没有'天啊老兄我超爱这个'。就是你生命中每一天机械地重复。没有激情，没有纪律，没有动力。
There's no fucking passion. There's no fucking motivation. There's no, oh my god, man, I fucking This is no. It's every day of your life just doing. No passion, no discipline, no motivation.
我讨厌这些词，讨厌现在这么多人滥用这些词。都是水分。是某人独自在房间里想通的结论。当你三百斤重时激情在哪？当你大字不识时动力何在？
All these words, I hate people. I hate that so many people fucking use these words now because it's watered. It's someone sitting in a room by themselves and they figure themselves out and say, God, this is gonna fucking suck. Where's passion when you're three hundred pounds? Where's the motivation when you can't read and write?
它们在哪？那我是怎么做到的？就他妈硬着头皮做。就是去做。我告诉自己：也许这段旅程尽头，会有属于我的东西。
Where is it? So how did this happen? I just fucking did. I just did. I said, maybe at the end of this journey, there'll be something there for me.
不然我可以读书。不然的话，我他妈可是185磅的体重。没有魔法药水。没有什么‘让我醒来看看这破事’。没有。
If not, I can read. If not, I'm a hundred and eighty five fucking pounds. There's no magic potion. There's no, oh, let me wake up and look at some shit. No.
所有这些词都被用烂了。都是狗屁。全是狗屁。直接去做。你活着呢。
All those words are overused. They're bullshit. It's all bullshit. Just do. You're living.
你想怎么活？想怎么死？想他妈怎么被人记住？就这样。就这样。
How do you wanna live? How do you wanna die? How do you wanna fucking be remembered? That's that's it. That's it.
句号。
Period.
我想稍作休息，感谢我们的赞助商之一Athletic Greens。Athletic Greens现在改名为AG1，是一种维生素矿物质益生菌饮料，能满足你所有基础营养需求。我从2012年开始服用Athletic Greens，很高兴他们赞助这期播客。我开始服用Athletic Greens的原因，也是我现在仍每天服用一到两次的原因，是它能提供我肠道健康所需的益生菌。我们的肠道非常重要，里面居住的肠道微生物群会与大脑、免疫系统以及身体几乎所有生物系统交流，深刻影响我们的即时和长期健康。
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Athletic Greens. Athletic Greens, now called AG1, is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that covers all of your foundational nutritional needs. I've been taking Athletic Greens since 2012, so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast. Reason I started taking Athletic Greens and the reason I still take Athletic Greens once or usually twice a day is that it gets me the probiotics that I need for gut health. Our gut is very important, it's populated by gut microbiota that communicate with the brain, the immune system, and basically all the biological systems of our body to strongly impact our immediate and long term health.
而Athletic Greens中的这些益生菌对微生物群健康至关重要。此外，Athletic Greens还含多种适应原、维生素和矿物质，确保我所有基础营养需求得到满足，而且味道很棒。如果你想尝试Athletic Greens，可以访问athleticgreens.com/huberman，他们将赠送五份便携装，让你在路上、车里、飞机上等场合轻松冲泡。还会赠送一年份的维生素D3K2。重申一次，访问athleticgreens.com/huberman即可获得五份免费便携装和一年份维生素D3K2。
And those probiotics in Athletic Greens are optimal and vital for microbiota health. In addition, Athletic Greens contains a number of adaptogens, vitamins, and minerals that make sure that all of my foundational nutritional needs are met and it tastes great. If you'd like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to athleticgreens.com/huberman and they'll give you five free travel packs that make it really easy to mix up Athletic Greens while you're on the road, in the car, on the plane, etcetera. And they'll give you a year's supply of vitamin D3K2. Again, that's athleticgreens.com/huberman to the five free travel packs and the year's supply of vitamin D3K2.
这个词萦绕在...嗯...我脑海里。没错。我觉得这个词太有力了。是的。
The word haunted Mhmm. Is ringing in my head. Yep. I think it's such a powerful word. Yep.
因为我正想说，这似乎是你整个过程中的重要部分，或许整个过程就是只有大棒没有胡萝卜。你知道，你提到胡萝卜，即积极的一面，然后是大棒，即你试图避免的事情。
Cause I was about to say, it seems like a huge part of your process, maybe the entire process is it's all stick, no carrot. You know, you talk about the carrot, the positive thing, and then there's the stick, the thing you're trying to avoid.
没错。
Yep.
我感觉它给我的印象就是只有大棒和油门。是这样吗？根本没有胡萝卜。你没有想象过，哦，等我成为急救员，等书出版的时候。当然你设定了那些目标并为之努力。
I feel like it's the way it's landing for me is it's all stick and gas pedal. Is it? There's no carrot. You're not imagining, oh, when I'm a paramedic, when the book is published. And obviously you set those goals and you make those targets.
是的。但全都是大棒。全是大棒。
Yep. But it's all stick. All stick.
没有胡萝卜。想想这个。我现在每天醒来学习就像明天有考试一样。可我他妈早就通过考试了。想想这个。
No carrot. Think about that. I'm waking up right now studying like I have a test tomorrow. I already passed the fucking test. Think about that.
我生命中的每一天，都必须这样做才能记住学过的东西。每天四个多小时，我坚持这样做。没有胡萝卜只有大棒。从来就没有胡萝卜，这就是为什么我和人们交谈时，必须找到引起他们共鸣的方式。因为我只想告诉他们，让我教你们真实的生活，它究竟是什么样子。
Every day of my life, that's what I must do just to retain what I learned. Four hours plus a day, I go through and do that. There's no stick or there's only a stick. There's never been a carrot, which is why when I speak to people, I have to figure out a way to resonate with them. Because all I wanna say to them is let me teach you the real life, how it really is.
你之所以是个失败者，你之所以没能成功，你之所以要参加所有这些该死的会议——我经常在这些该死的会议上演讲。我看着台下的观众，这些人年复一年地报名参会，以为能学到什么他妈的新东西。不。你就是懒。
The reason why you're a loser and the reason why you're not fucking making it and the reason why you're trying to go through all these I go to all these fucking conventions. Speak all the fucking time. I look in the fucking audience and these people sign up, sign up, sign up fucking every year to go to convention thinking they're gonna learn something fucking different. No. You're lazy.
你很清楚该做什么。非常清楚该做什么。因为即便是我，在我这种读写障碍的状态下，我也确切知道该怎么做。只是执行起来很痛苦。做这件事本身就很痛苦。
You know exactly what to do. Exactly what to do. Because even me, in my state of I can't read or write, I knew exactly what to do. It just sucks doing it. It sucks to do it.
每天早晨醒来都要对自己说'老天，我不够聪明'，这太糟心了。所以知道我该怎么办吗？我必须重新学习那些我曾经考出全国顶尖成绩的内容，一遍又一遍。重复学习。不断重复。
It sucks to wake up every morning of your life and say, God, man, I'm not smart. So guess what I gotta do? I gotta study the same shit that I got one of the highest scores in the nation on and do it again. Do it again. Do it again.
知识不会自动留在脑子里。对我来说不是永久性的。所以是的，全靠强迫自己。全靠强迫。你唯一的顾虑可能是——每当我参加这些高难度考试时，潜意识里总有个声音说'高金斯，你很可能通不过'。
It's not just there. It's not just there permanently for me. So yeah, it's all stick. It's all stick. The only care that you have is like, maybe, maybe, because whenever take these tests that are real hard, in the back of my brain, it's like, there's a good chance you're not gonna make it, Goggins.
这不是真正的你，兄弟。这不是。你生来不是这样的。这不是你。找回真正的自己，兄弟。
This ain't you, bro. This ain't you. You weren't born like this. This ain't you. The real you, bro.
你可以拼命学习，但当那该死的电脑弹出150道考题时，你就会原形毕露。但不知怎么，我又找回了状态。我通过了。一次又一次地通过了。
Study all you want to, but the second that fucking computer comes on with a 150 questions, this ain't you, man. And somehow, it comes back. I passed. I passed again. I passed again.
但每次把我拉回现实的都是那句'那不是真正的你，兄弟'。我必须用更拼命的工作来压制这个声音。当考试遇到不会的题目时，那个声音就说'看吧，我早说过这不是你'。
But that ruled me back here every fucking time is saying, that ain't you, bro. That ain't you. And I have to outwork that voice. When I'm taking that test and I get to a question I don't fucking know the answer, I'm like, fuck, man. And then, say, I told you, man, that ain't you.
你可是个三百磅的胖子啊。整天宅在家里研究怎么用反向秃顶发型去上学，16岁就搞这种把戏——这才是真实的你。所以根本没有免死金牌可言。
You're three hundred pounds, man. You sit at home, you figure out how to do your hair. That's what you do, how to come to school with the reverse baldness when you're 16. That's that's that's you. So there is no get out of jail free card.
这就是为什么我说要保持坚韧。因为当你没有被赋予天赋时，生活中唯一能做的就是保持坚韧。我知道人们受不了我，受不了这种言论。但这就是你唯一能做的。
This is why I say stay hard. Because when you weren't given the gifts, the only thing you can do in life is stay hard. And I know people cannot stand me. They can't stand this talk. This is all you can do.
没有什么神奇的药丸或魔药。你唯一能做的就是比上帝创造的你——无论男女——更努力。而这过程毫无乐趣。所以我曾说，不要给我拍纪录片，因为人们看不到真相。
There's no magic pill or a magic potion. All you can do is outwork the man that God created or woman in you. And what that looks like is unfun. That's why I said, do not do a documentary on me. Because people will not see the truth.
他们只会看到自己想看的。我不想那样活着。很好。很好。而你会继续像现在这样生活，质疑自己是谁，怀疑什么是可能的，怀疑自己能做什么。
They will see what they want to see. I don't want to live like that. Good. Good. And you will live exactly the way you live now, questioning who you are, wondering what is possible, wondering what you are capable of doing.
这就是现实。或者你可以像我一样——我快乐吗？我不知道。从没认真想过。也根本不在乎。
That's how that looks. Or you can be me, which, am I happy? I don't know. Never really thought about it. Don't really care about it.
因为我真正在乎的是，当我看着那该死的镜子时，我看到一坨屎。16岁300磅的镜子里没有快乐。不是那种'哦我在寻找快乐'的状态。不。
Because all I really cared about was when I looked in that fucking mirror, I saw a piece of shit. Happiness wasn't on the mirror at 16. Around three hundred pounds. It wasn't like, oh my I'm looking for happiness. No.
我看着镜中的自己说：好吧混蛋，你今天又这样了。你是个坏小子，因为这太糟糕了。当我得到'胡萝卜'时会有几分钟这种状态。刚躺下睡觉，'胡萝卜'就消失了，因为我整夜都会醒来检查当天的工作。
I'm looking looking at myself in the mirror and say, alright, motherfucker. You did it again today. You're a bad boy because that shit sucks. I have about a couple minutes of that when I got the carrot. Second lay down and go to bed, the carrot's gone because I'm waking up all through the night to check the work I did that day.
这个药搞对了吗？这个做对了吗？那个做对了吗？我做了什么？天啊。
Did I get this drug right? Did I get this right? Did I get that right? What did I do? Oh my god.
妈的。我我我已经快崩溃了。就是根棍子。
Fuck. I'm I'm I'm already losing it. It's a stick.
那根棍子在纠缠你。阴魂不散。它就在你身边。嗯。所以墙上没有乔丹的照片。
That stick is haunting you. Haunting. It's you around. Mhmm. So no picture of Jordan on the wall.
你没在听YouTube励志视频。反正那些都是你自己的声音。你也没听最爱的十大金曲来提神，然后系好鞋带埋头苦读。全都在你脑子里。
You're not listening to YouTube inspiration video. Those would be all your voice anyway. You're not listening to your top 10 favorite songs just to get rolling and then lace the shoes, hit the books. You're it's all in here.
全在脑子里。我胖的时候常这么干。洛奇，大家都知道那是我的标志。第14回合是我的招牌。但随着年纪越来越大，这些渐渐消失了。
All in there. I used to do that when I was fat. Rocky, I mean, people know that that was my thing. Round 14 was my thing. And as I got older and older and older, that started to go away.
我开始塑造——我曾追随着很多人。洛奇是一个，还有巴恩斯，《野战排》里的伊莱亚斯，《好人寥寥》里的杰克。记得他在证人席发飙的样子吗？我看着这些角色时总想：老天，我半点都比不上。但他们毕竟是虚构人物。
And I started to create I had all these people that I used to watch. Rocky was one, Barnes, Elias from platoon, Jack from a few good men. You know, when he's on the stand going crazy. I saw a lot of these characters that I looked at, and I was like, man, I ain't got none of that. But they were characters.
经过多年极度自律的生活，那些我曾仰望的虚构角色，我作为男人都实现了。年轻时我总想：我心中的男人该是什么模样？我把所有硬汉角色拼凑起来，在脑海里成为了那种人。正是这种白日梦支撑着我——妄想集各家之长。
After a while, I lived a life so disciplined that everybody that I once looked to, these fake characters, I I built that as a man. And when I was younger, I had this image in my mind of what does a man look like to me? And I got all these people who were badasses, characters. And in my mind, I became that. And that's what kept me going a lot, was I had this pipe dream of becoming a little bit of this and a little bit of that.
因为当你无父无母、成长过程没有榜样时，这不是白日梦。你会开始构建一种可能性：也许我能成为那样。而当我真成为这种人后，这辈子最了不起的成就是：我居然活成了曾经仰望的模样。现在看着自己都想问：天啊，这他妈谁能做到？反正我做不到。
Because when you have no parents raising you and you have no role models growing up, you it's not daydreaming. You start to create a reality that maybe I can be that. And after becoming this guy, that is the biggest thing I can ever do in my life is I became that guy. That I once looked at all these guys, now look at myself like, god, who the fuck can do that? I can't.
但关键在于一种无人能及的纪律性，甚至他们根本不明白。他们不明白每个人都有能力做到，只是不愿意去做。他们只想不断提问，不断参加研讨会。而伟大就藏在你自己身上。
But what it takes is a a discipline that no one can ever even they just don't they don't understand it. They don't understand everybody has the ability to do it. But they just don't want to. They want to keep asking questions and keep going to seminars. And the greatness is right in you.
正因如此，我要再重复千万遍：我不会同情你们。我不会粉饰我要说的话，因为你们都知道我说的是事实。每个人都心知肚明——现实就是这副模样。
And that's why once again, I'll say this a million times here. I do not feel sorry for you. I will not sugarcoat what I'm going to say to you, because all of you know what I'm saying is the truth. Everybody knows the truth. This is what it looks like.
你们知道吗？其实你们也清楚。如果你一无所有，我很遗憾地告诉你，现实就是丑陋的。这不是纪录片，也不是HBO特辑。
And you know what, too? You know it too. This is what if if you ain't got nothing, I hate to tell you, but it looks like it's ugly. It's not a documentary. It's not an HBO special.
你们不会去看那些东西。嘿，伙计们，快来看这个。不，只会让人感叹：天啊。
You ain't go watch them. Hey, man. You guys gotta watch this. No. It's like, oh, god.
这就像列车失事现场，像场噩梦。就像这个人一无所有。现实就是如此——艰苦奋斗的样子从来都不美好。
This looks like a train wreck. It like a nightmare. This looks like this guy got no. That's what it looks like. Hard work looks horrible.
这根本不激励人心。完全不是《洛奇14》里被阿波罗·奎迪击倒后又挣扎站起的热血场景。而是像个人被困在该死的牢笼里，看似无路可逃——其实钥匙就在你手里，可你偏不用。
It's not motivating. It's not motivating at all. Ain't like Rocky round 14, where he gets knocked down and goes like this to Apollo Creed. Looks like a man being stuck in a fucking dungeon, and there's no fucking way out. But you had the fucking key, but you refused to use it.
这毫无激励可言。所以没错，大卫·戈金斯身上找不到半点温情纪录片的样子。
And that's nothing motivating about that. So, yes, no document on David Goggins.
真实的生活。真实的生活。大卫·戈金斯就是那部纪录片。一切都已经写就。你就是它。
The real life. The real life. David Goggins is the is the documentary. It's all it's already being written. You're it.
对。是的。我要分享一点神经科学的小知识。
Right. Yeah. I'm gonna share a little neuroscience tidbit.
爱
Love
它。但我想你会欣赏这一点。大多数人不知道，但大脑有一个结构叫前中扣带皮层。正如我们之前指出的，那是个名词，是个名字，本身没有意义。我们可以叫它饼干怪兽。
it. But I think it's one that you'll appreciate. Most people don't know this, but there's a brain structure called the anterior mid cingulate cortex. As we pointed out before, that's a noun, it's a name, it doesn't mean anything. We could call it the cookie monster.
对。
Right.
但这个脑区有趣的是，现在有很多人类数据。那是一项小鼠研究，显示当人们做他们不想做的事，比如每天或每周增加三小时锻炼，或者当试图节食减肥的人抗拒吃某些东西时。
But what's interesting about this brain area is there are now a lot of data in humans. That's a mouse study showing that when people do something they don't wanna do, like add three hours of exercise per day or per week, or when people who are trying to diet and lose weight resist eating something.
对。
Right.
当人们做任何他们——这是关键部分——不想做的事情时。明白吗？这不是关于增加更多工作，而是增加更多你不愿意做的工作。
When people do anything that they and this is the important part, that they don't want to do. Right. It's not about adding more work, it's about adding more work that you don't want to
做。是的。
do. Yes.
这个脑区会变大。没错。现在我觉得这个脑区特别有趣的是——顺便说一句，我也是最近才了解到这些，因为是新数据，但证据很充分——肥胖人群的前中扣带皮层较小。
This brain area gets bigger. Yep. Now here's what's especially interesting about this brain area to me. And by the way, I'm only learning this recently because it's new data, but there's a lot of it. The anterior mid cingulate cortex is smaller in obese people.
当他们去世时它会变大。运动员的这个区域更大。在那些视自己为挑战者并克服了某些困难的人身上，它尤其大或会增长得更大。
It gets bigger when they die. It's larger in athletes. It's especially large or grows larger in people that see themselves as challenged and overcome some challenge.
对。
Right.
而在长寿人群中，这个区域能保持其大小。科学家们正逐渐认为前中扣带皮层不仅仅是意志力的中枢之一。
And in people that live a very long time, this area keeps its size. In many ways scientists are starting to think of the anterior mid cingulate cortex not just as one of the seats of willpower.
没错。
Right.
但或许实际上正是生存意志的所在。
But perhaps actually the seat of the will to live.
现在我们说到点子上了。
Now we're talking.
当我了解到前中扣带回皮层时，我几乎从座位上跳起来。我从20岁起就从事神经科学研究，能告诉你每个脑区的功能——我甚至给医学生教授神经解剖学。但当我看到前中扣带回皮层的数据时，我惊呼：哇，这太有意思了。
And when I learned about the anterior mid cingulate cortex, I was like almost out of my seat. And I've been in the neuroscience game since I was 20. We're And the same I was so pumped because I've heard of the amygdala fear, prefrontal cortex, it's planning and action. I could tell you every brain area and every I teach neuroanatomy to medical students. But when I started seeing the data on the anterior mid cingulate cortex, I was like, woah, this is interesting.
没错。
Yep.
所有数据都表明我们可以增强这个脑区。但如果我们不持续挑战那些困难、不愿做的事，它就会快速退化——这让我想起戈金的理论。比如你喜欢冰浴，从一分钟坚持到十分钟，但你的前中扣带回皮层并不会增长。
And all the data point to the fact that we can build this area up. Yep. But that as quickly as we build it up, if we don't continue to invest in things that are hard for us, that we don't want to do, that's the part that feels so Goggin esque to me that we don't want to do. Like if you love the ice bath, yeah, love the ice bath, you go from one minute to ten minutes, guess what? Your anterior mid cingulate cortex did not grow.
完全不会。但如果你讨厌冷水，害怕溺水却仍把头埋入水中坚持住，这时前中扣带回皮层就会增大。但若第二天不做，或因为昨天成功而享受这个过程——'嘿我昨天做到了！'——那就...
None. But if you hate the cold water, if you're afraid of drowning and you get into water and put your head under, then your anterior mid and survive, then the anterior mid cingulate cortex gets bigger. But if you don't do it the next day, or if you do it the next day and you enjoy it, because hey, hey, I did it yesterday. Woo hoo. Happy me, Merry Christmas, as
对吧？圣诞快乐。
you Right, can Merry Christmas.
猜怎么着？前中扣带皮层又缩小了。
Guess what? The anterior mid cingulate cortex shrinks again.
是啊。
Yep.
对我来说，这是神经科学有史以来最重要的发现之一。
To me, this is one of the most important discoveries that neuroscience has ever made.
因为
Because
就是那种我不想做某事却还是去做了的状态。
it's that I don't want to do something but do it anyway.
没错。
That's right.
这种行为会促进该区域生长。就像我有个朋友，他戒酒三十年了。他总说，成瘾最神奇之处在于有解药，问题是这解药只能一天一天见效。是的。
That grows this area. And it's almost like I have a friend, he's been sober thirty years from alcohol. And He always says, you know, the amazing thing about addiction is there's a cure. The problem is it only works one day at a time. Yep.
所以你必须每天更新它。
And so you have to renew it every day.
没错。
That's right.
当我了解到前中扣带皮层时，两件事在我脑海中闪现。哇，这超级有趣。第二，必须告诉大卫·戈金斯这件事。我等到现在才告诉你，是因为我觉得，出于显而易见的原因，我想告诉你，而且我想在这里告诉你。
So the anterior midcingulate cortex to me, when I learned about it, two things went off in my head. Woah, this is super interesting. And two, got to tell David Goggins about this. And I waited until now to tell you because I felt like I well, for obvious reasons, wanted to tell you and I wanted to tell you here.
我很喜欢这个，因为我一生都是这样过的。我对此一无所知，但人们会说，老兄，你的意志力真强。这是你培养出来的。就像，我永远不会忘记。有一次在播客上，有人说，你天生就有强大的心智。
Well, I love that because that's how I've lived my entire life. I didn't know anything about that, but people go, man, you have such a strong will. It's something that you build. Like, I never forgot. I on a podcast one time, and this dude goes, you were blessed with a strong mind.
什么叫我天生就有强大的心智？那是你必须培养的东西。那是你经过多年、数十年的苦难和重返苦难中磨炼出来的。这就是为什么很多从海豹突击队训练毕业的人，他们想知道，就像我经常公开谈论的那样。很多人不愿意再回到那种水里。
Like, the hell are you talking about I was blessed with a strong mind? You that's something that you have to develop. You developed that over years, decades of suffering and going back into the suffer. That's why a lot of people who graduate Navy SEAL training, they wanna know, like, in my I talk about it very openly all the time. A lot of guys don't go don't don't wanna go back into that water.
他们想回到那些艰难的事情中去。也许不是任何艰难的事情。生活中任何艰难的事情。一旦你熬过去了，就像你成了战俘。你知道有多少战俘想回到战俘营吗？
They wanna go back into the hard stuff. And maybe not anything anything hard. Anything hard in life. Once you get through it, it's like you become a POW. Like how many POWs you know want to go back to POW camp?
一个都没有。当生活中某些事情糟糕透顶时，就像我们现在讨论的这个。很少有人愿意回头。他们很高兴自己毕业了。我意识到我也是这样。
None. When something sucks so bad in life, this is on this that we're talking about now. Very few people want to go back. They're happy they graduated. I realized I'm the same way.
我不想回去。但我必须回去。我必须回去，因为我一生所有的知识都存在于那里，回到你正在谈论的那个原点。好吧，我原本对此一无所知，但我自愿成长的方式就是不断做这些事，直到现在，这就是生活。我醒来时依然觉得糟透了，但这就是生活。
I don't want to go back. I have to go back. I must go back because that is exactly where all the knowledge of my life exists was back there in which you exactly what you're talking about. Well, I didn't know anything about this, but how I grew at will was constantly doing these things to now, it's just life. I wake up while it still sucks, it's just life.
你不会只是坐着感叹‘天啊’。我有不想行动的日子，但我知道自己终会去做。多年的经验让我明白这一点。这很美妙。这就是我今天来和你对话的原因。很高兴你谈论这些，因为人类需要听到这些。
You don't sit back and like, oh my god, like, I have days I don't wanna do it, I know I'm gonna do it. I know from years of just doing it. So that's that's beautiful. This is why I came on here with you today. And I'm glad that you're talking about this, because human beings need to hear this.
他们需要停止听那些关于这个那个的速成技巧。根本他妈没有捷径，兄弟。没有他妈什么捷径。是的，你可以尝试这个那个，桑拿之类的玩意儿，没错，那些挺好。
They need to stop hearing these hacks on this and that. There's no fucking hack, bro. There's no fucking hack. Yeah. You may this and that and saunas and all this shit that they Yeah, it's great.
但生活他妈没有速成法。要想成长，怎么成长？做就是了，一遍又一遍地做。这就是所谓的‘捷径’。这‘捷径’会他妈让你痛苦不堪。
There is no fucking life hack. To grow that thing, how do you grow it? Do it and do it and do it and do it. That's the hack. The hack is gonna fucking suck.
这就是我领悟到的。这就是我的觉悟。生活——正因如此我今天才想来这里。我不想上来谈什么狗屁激情、人生目标、怎么他妈起床、怎么关闹钟，还有那些口号式的废话。因为那不是我的生存方式。
And that's what I realized. That's what I realized. Life That's why I wanted to come on here today. I didn't want to come on here and talk about no fucking passion and purpose and how to get the fuck out of bed and how to hit a fucking alarm clock and all this catchphrase bullshit. Because that wasn't how I lived.
那不是我的活法。我和所有人一样醒来时想着：操，今天老子就是个废物。这他妈怎么可能有转机？然后你与之对抗。
It wasn't how I lived. I lived I woke up like every human being does and goes, Fuck, man. I'm a fucking piece of shit today. How the hell is this gonna work out for me? And you fight that.
你与之对抗。无法跳过这个过程。没有一键跳过按钮。这就是你他妈脑子里持续的自问自答。那么，你该怎么办？
And you fight that. You don't override it. There's no override button. It's the conversation in your fucking in your head. So how do you do that?
我们太少进行关于每个人内心真实对话的探讨。人们深陷其中却不知如何挣脱，但他们确实能。就是那些破事儿，伙计。你得锻造你的意志。怎么锻造意志？
We don't have enough of these conversations about the real conversation that every human being is having. They And have no idea how to get out of it, but they do. It's that shit right there, man. You gotta build your will. How do you build your will?
正是你说的那样，老兄。一字不差。
Exactly what you said, man. Exactly what you said.
我觉得知道某个名称——比如前中扣带皮层——并不会从根本上改变我们。但我喜欢生物学的一点是，意志力这东西，如果有人觉得自己没有，会觉得是别人独有的，但其实除非脑部受损，比如脑袋被开了个洞，否则每个人都有两个前中扣带皮层，大脑左右各一个。人人都有。
Well, I feel like knowing the name of something, anterior mid cingulate cortex doesn't fundamentally change us. But one thing I like about biology is that willpower, if somebody feels they don't have it, feels like this thing that other people have, but everybody, unless they're brain damaged, like a hole Right. Through their head, has two anterior mid cingulate cortex, one on each side of their brain. Everyone has one.
嗯。
Mhmm.
他们有两个。所以我觉得问题只是如何打开那个通道。而这个通道——我又要说了，已经讲了八九遍了请见谅——我认为人们会说'哦，我做困难的事'。我做力竭组，还做强迫次数。我热爱举重训练。
They have two. So I feel like it's just a question of opening the portal. And the portal, what I again, I've said this eight ten times and forgive me, is I think people go, Oh, I do hard things. I do sets to failure and then I do force reps. I love training with weights.
我喜欢做到力竭。我甚至喜欢强迫次数。但你知道吗？我喜欢强迫次数。所以我告诉你，它们并不能锻炼我的前中扣带皮层。
I love doing sets to failure. I even like force reps. But guess what? I like force reps. So I'll tell you, they don't build my anterior mid cingulate cortex.
没错。
Right.
因为我喜欢这么做。没错。任何你喜欢做的事都不会增强意志力这方面。嗯。一旦你听到这个说法，就会觉得显而易见，你会想，哦，是的，当然。
Because I like to do it. That's right. Anything you like to do is not gonna enhance this aspect of willpower. Mhmm. And it seems so obvious once you hear it, you kinda go, oh, yeah, of course.
但我认为你确实为人们闭合了这个认知循环
But I think you really close that loop for people
嗯。
Mhmm.
当你分享今天的内容以及之前在其他地方分享过的观点时，你在试图解释摩擦是关键要素。
When you share what you're sharing today and what you've shared elsewhere before as well when you're trying to explain the friction is the critical ingredient.
对。
Right.
我认为人们会想，哦，如果它需要努力，那么我就在变得更好。这是其中的一部分，必要但不充分，就像我们在科学中说的那样。但痛苦的部分，被困扰，坚持，这些都是非常不愉快的词汇。非常。这些可能是我们在这个播客中使用过的最令人不快的词汇。
And I think people think, oh, if it's effort, well then I'm getting better. That's part of it, necessary but not sufficient as we say in science. But the suck part, the haunt being haunted, the stick, they're really unpleasant terms. Very. These are probably the most unpleasant terms we've ever used on this podcast.
非常。
Very.
这些是杠杆。那些是齿轮，没有它们，你所说的那个概念——把David Goggins当作动词。对吧。你知道，我有时开玩笑说，但这并非玩笑。
Are the levers. Those are the gears and without those, this thing that you're talking about, David Goggins as a verb. Right. You know, I sometimes make the joke, but it's not a joke.
对。
Right.
Goggins是个名字，也是个动词。人们会说，我要‘Goggins’一下那件事。
Goggins is a name and it's a verb. People go, I'm gonna Goggins that.
没错。
Right.
对吧？但我想，重申一次，我不是心理学家，我认为你说的就是这个。那根棍子，摩擦带来的困扰。正是这种痛苦的部分在锻炼前中扣带皮层。
Right? But that's, I think, again, I'm not a psychologist, I think that's what you're talking about. The stick, the friction being haunted. It's the suck part that grows this anterior mid cingulate cortex.
所以现在你明白为什么世界上有这么多人未能找到他们的目标，他们生活的意义。我该何去何从？因为要发展那个，虽然你可能看起来不像我，我的日常生活看起来并不有趣。它看起来并不有趣。所以这是人们生活中必须做出的选择。
So now you know why there's so many people that have failed in this world to figure out their purpose, their purpose in life. Where do I go? Because to grow that, while you may not look like me, how my daily life looks, it don't look fun. It don't look fun. So it's a choice that people have to make in life.
但最讽刺的是，即便是最富有的、拥有一切的人，也总是问我这个问题。我觉得我缺少了什么。我从不觉得自己缺什么。我没有你们拥有的东西，但你永远不会听到我说我缺少什么。每个人都是如此。
But what's so funny about it is even the richest of rich who have everything, they always ask me this question. I feel like I'm missing something. I don't feel like I'm missing shit. I don't have what you all have, but you'll never in my life hear me tell you I'm missing something. Everybody is.
他们缺失的就是这种感觉。我很久以前就找到了。就在那份意志力里找到的。当你一无所有，彻底归零，然后把自己蜕变成我这样的人，你可以称之为幸福、平静，随便你怎么命名。人们完全错过了大卫·戈金斯身上发生的那种转变。
They're missing this feeling. I found it long time ago. I found it right there in that willpower thing. When you're nothing, nothing, and change yourself into something like me, You call it happiness, peace, whatever the fuck you wanna call it. People are missing exactly what went on with David Goggins.
你为什么不笑？我会笑。但我悟出了一件事——所以你永远不会听到我说自己缺失什么。
Why don't you smile? I do. I do. But I figured something out. That's why I am never you'll never hear me say I'm missing something.
我多年前就找到了答案。你在痛苦中发现它。在反复经历痛苦的过程中，直到彻底认清自己。多数人感到缺失是因为他们不认识真实的自己，从未审视过内心。
I found it years ago. You find it in the suck. You find it in the suck and you find it repeatedly in the suck to the point where you know exactly who you are. Most people are missing something because they don't know who they are. They never examine themselves.
他们从未对自己做过这个实验。我们都是实验室的小白鼠，但同时也是科学家。你在塑造自我。多数人的缺失感源于内心积压了太多东西——我不想用'潜力'这个词。
They they've never done this experiment on themselves. The lab rat, we're all lab rats, but you're also the scientist. You create your own self. Most people are missing something because there's so much trapped in there. I don't I don't wanna say potential.
我觉得这个词也被滥用了。你体内蕴藏着上帝（或任何你信仰的神，就算你是无神论者）赋予的未被释放的能量。即便你拥有美艳娇妻、完美丈夫和巨额财富，仍会感觉缺失什么。因为约75%的你还他妈锁在深处，被链条禁锢——只因你不愿发掘意志力，不愿寻找灵魂、决心、勇气和胆量。这个过程看起来就像你那个恐怖实验室，令人畏惧。
I think that's where you use out too much too. There's so much in you that God or whoever the hell you believe in or if you're atheist in you that you have not unlocked, that you walk around with this gorgeous wife or or great husband and all this money, you're like, god, I feel like I'm missing something. Yeah. Because it's about 75% of you is still fucking in there, still chained up because you just didn't wanna find your willpower, didn't wanna find your soul, your will, your heart, your determination, your guts, your courage. And what that looks like, it looks scary, like your little scary lab I went in.
确实恐怖。每天醒来承认'我很蠢，但想变聪明'，远比说'老兄我做不到'更难。于是你画地为牢，把自己困在越来越小的能力圈里。
Scary. To wake up every day and say, I'm stupid, but I wanna figure out a way to be smarter. Versus saying, man, I just can't do that. So you limit this box. So your box becomes so small of things you can do.
我的牢笼当初连盒子都算不上，就是个他妈针眼大的小孔。通过自我审视，获得意志力和勇气后，现在比这张桌子还辽阔。这就是我们都能做到的蜕变。所以今天我才想来这里，和你们聊聊这些硬核真相。
My box wasn't even a box. It was a fucking little like little pinhole. And then through examining myself, getting some willpower, some courage, it became bigger than this table. But that's what we all do. That's why I wanted to come here today and talk to you about real shit.
根本没有什么狗屁捷径。没有捷径，兄弟。是你与自己的对抗。你对抗你自己。如果你误解了这一点，那你真的有问题。
Not no fucking like hacks. There's no hacks, bro. It's you against you. You against you. And if you misunderstand that, you have a real problem.
大问题。我能理解你误解我在街上光膀子跑步。去他妈的。不。对。
Real problem. I can understand you misunderstand me running on the street, shirt off. Fuck this. No. Yeah.
我能我能明白吗？我懂。如果你误解我今天此刻说的话，问题在于你，而你并不想解决它。
I can I can get it? I get it. If you misunderstand what I'm saying right now today, the problem is you, and you don't wanna fix it.
嗯，富家子弟就是缺乏阻力如何毁掉人生的典型案例。
Well, the children of wealthy people are a case study in how not having enough friction can destroy a life.
实话。
True statement.
我是说，我可以列举媒体上的显赫名字，但这些其实最无趣。更有趣的例子可能是我们从未听说过的那些人，因为我们根本听不到他们的消息。对吧。他们只是逐渐凋零。或者说，今天聊到这里我才意识到，有大批这样的人——他们不算特别成功。
I mean, I could list off prominent names in the press, but those are actually the least interesting. What's probably more interesting as an example is all the ones we don't hear about because we never hear about them. Right. They just dwindle and wither. Or I think there's this big category of people I'm realizing as we have this conversation today that they're not super successful.
他们不算挣扎求生。他们算得上足够成功，以至于永远不必...你可以达到无需自我设限的程度。你自己也说过。对吧。你的银行存款已经多到其实不必做你现在做的所有事，可能连一小部分都不需要做。
They're not struggling. They're like successful enough that they never have to You can get to the point where you don't have to impose friction. You even said it. Right. Your bank account is in a place where you don't really need to do all the things you do, probably not even a small fraction of them.
什么都不做。对。
Do nothing. Right.
但你要明白，压力和如影随形的焦虑才是引擎的燃料。对吧。如果你放弃这些，那才是真的疯了，因为你已经内化了这一切。
But you realize the stick and being haunted is the fuel in the engine. Right. And you'd be truly crazy to give that up because you've internalized all that.
对。
Right.
但大多数人，他们已经足够好了
But most people, they're good enough
对他们来说。
for them.
没错。所以他们其实并没有足够强烈地想要变得更好，从而开始一步步往上爬。
Yep. And so they don't actually want to be better badly enough in order to start going rung after rung.
想想你培养意志力的过程，想想我建立了多少。现在你知道了这个，这个我之前并不知道，但想想我建立了多少。我一生中做过的每件事，我都不想去做。每一天都是如此。我是个懒惰的废物，但同时我也是地球上最勤奋的人之一。
Well, think about when you build willpower and think about how much I've built. Now that you know about this, this I didn't know about this, but think about how much I've built. Everything I've ever done in my life, I didn't wanna do. Everything, every day. I'm a lazy piece of shit, And I'm one of the hardest working people to ever step foot on this planet Earth.
我自豪地说出这句话，因为我清楚自己的所作所为。这不是自负。我会坦然承认自己的愚昧，也会毫不掩饰地讲述我成就的反面。这就是真相。
And I'm saying that very proudly because I know what I do. It's not cocky. I'll tell you I'm stupid. And I'll also tell you the exact opposite of what I've done. It's the truth.
这就是事实。想象一下我在这些年里的成长。但可怕之处在于——为什么多数人不愿培养这种意志力？因为它确实令人畏惧。它会彻底揭示你究竟是谁，又不是谁。
It is the truth. So imagine how much I've developed in that timeframe. But this is the scary thing. Why most people don't want to do that, build that willpower, is because it is scary. It unlocks a whole bunch of things about who you are and who you're not.
很多人不愿踏上这段发现自我的旅程，因为过程并不美好。我是过来人，而且不是一蹴而就，而是持续不断地在这条路上探索。
And a lot of people don't want to go down that journey to discover who they are and who they're not. Because it's it's not a pretty journey. I mean, I've gone down it. It's not like I went down at once. I go down it all the time.
当你开启这种状态就无法关闭。总有人问我：'你为什么不退休？'我锻造了这般意志力，难道会因膝盖疼痛就放弃？每天清晨醒来，身体都在提醒：'虽然膝盖疼、腿疼、全身疼，但你还能跑——为什么不跑？'
And when you unlock that and you can't just turn it off, like people say, hey, how come you haven't retired yet? I built all this willpower. Do you think it's gonna let me just retire because my my knees hurt? It's telling me every morning, I wake up like, man, I don't my knees hurt, my my legs hurt, my body hurts, but you can still run. So why aren't you running?
只要还能跑，就要继续。终有一天会无法系紧鞋带，但只要尚能迈步，我仍在奔跑。当身体真正宣告终结时自会停歇。但只要尚存能力，我锻造的意志力就会逼我每天坚持——这正是世人难以理解的。
If you can still run, there'll be a time when you can't lace them up anymore, but you can still run. So I still run. When the time comes I can't run, the body will say, you just can't run. But if I can still do something, that willpower that I have created, it makes me do it every fucking day. And that's what they don't get.
人的塑造始于微小积累。不知不觉间，你会成长为令常人难以理解的存在——只因这已成为你的本质。正因如此，49岁膝盖劳损、身体垮塌的我仍在奔跑：我的身体知道尚有余力，故我坚持。一旦停下，意志即刻消散。
What builds a human being is you start with the small building blocks. And before you know it, man, you become something that you it doesn't even make sense to most people because it's just who you are now. That's why I can still run at 50 with broke with at 49 with broke down knees and broke down body because my body knows you still can. Therefore, I do. Second you stop, the the willpower is gone.
这过程何其美妙。感谢你让我重提此事，我常思索这种蜕变。24岁那年，我无意中奠基的事业，到49岁竟成就如斯——一切不过源于最初那个简单的坚持。
And that's beautiful. I'm so glad you brought that to me because I always wonder, what's this separation thing now? At 24 years old, I started building something that I didn't even know was gonna be what it is now at 49. And that's all it was, was just that.
这个前中扣带皮层结构接收并输出来自多个区域的信号，但你可能不会惊讶地发现，当我们移动身体、或抗拒移动身体时它会被强烈激活。感觉就像是David Goggins式的结构对吧？确实如此。它还与多巴胺奖赏通路有着紧密联系。
This structure anterior mid cingulate cortex has inputs and outputs from a bunch of places, but you'll probably not be surprised to learn that it's strongly activated when we move our body, when we don't want to move our body. Feel like it's like the David Goggins structure, right? Really is. It is. And it also has strong connections to the dopamine reward pathway.
然后所有人都会欢呼'多巴胺奖励万岁'。人人都爱多巴胺。我某种程度上让大众更了解多巴胺了。但多巴胺被严重误解了——人们总认为多巴胺冲击就是关于奖励。
And everyone goes, Yay, dopamine reward. Everyone loves dopamine. I'm partially responsible for people knowing a bit more about dopamine. But dopamine's badly understood. Everyone thinks dopamine, dopamine hits, it's about reward.
它关乎动机和驱动力。而且大脑多巴胺中枢还接收疼痛信号输入，这点没人提及。人们总说'哦你想要巧克力、性、可卡因'，这些确实没错。
It's about motivation and drive. And there are pain inputs to the dopamine centers of the brain. No one talks about that. Everyone's like, Oh, you want the chocolate, you know, chocolate, sex, cocaine. That's all true.
没错。
Right.
你会释放多巴胺。疼痛也会引发多巴胺释放。前中扣带皮层能针对我们称之为'摩擦'的情况触发多巴胺释放——这是后天习得的机制，没有动物或人类天生就懂这个。
You release dopamine. Pain releases dopamine. The anterior mid cingulate cortex can trigger the release of dopamine in response to this thing that we're calling friction. And that's a learned thing. That's something that no animal or human being comes into the world learning.
我们都本能逃避痛苦、追求愉悦（比如糖分脂肪），讨厌高温表面。
We all are averse to pain and like pleasure, like sugar fat, don't like hot surfaces.
对。
Right.
但这是一个会学习的大脑结构。它具有神经可塑性，即在整个生命周期中都能改变的能力。而我认为这部分——虽然这只是神经学行话，描述你们早已知道、实践并体现的事实——人们常说‘哦，它有可塑性，你可以改变它’。但你知道吗？这种可塑性是双向的。
But this is a structure that learns. It has neuroplasticity, the ability to change throughout the entire lifespan. And here's the part that I think again, this is just neuro nerd speak for what you already know and have done and exemplify, is that people say, oh, it has plasticity, you can change it. But guess what? Has plasticity in both directions.
它可以生长，但就像橡皮泥一样，生长得容易，萎缩也同样容易。
It can grow, but just as easily as it can grow, it's like silly putty, it can shrink.
没错。
Right.
所以它需要持续维护。
So it requires constant upkeep.
对。
Right.
但这个答案不会让人喜欢。不，他们只想要能量饮料、营养补充剂、肯定答案。他们想要能增强前中单皮层（注：此处为幽默性专业术语误用）的桑拿方案。此刻肯定有人在想：等等，如果我接受经颅磁刺激...
And that answer isn't one that people are going to like. Nope. They're like, give me the energy drink, give me the supplement, give me the Yes. Give me the sauna protocol that's going to make my anterior mid single cortex. Someone out there right now is going, wait, if I took transcranial magnetic stimulation and I stimulate.
没错——实际上已有实验：我的同事乔·帕尔维齐在神经手术中将细导线插入这个结构（注：指杏仁核）进行刺激时，患者会说‘我感觉暴风雨要来了’。医生问‘害怕吗？’
Yeah, you'd probably actually they've done that. They stuck a little wire during neurosurgery into this structure. This is actually discovered by a colleague of mine, Joe Parvizi. Stimulate and the patients go, I feel like there's a storm coming. And they go, Oh, is it scary?
他们说，不，我想经历这个过程。停止刺激后，人们会说，这就是我们讨论的核心所在。对，没错。而且它会学习。所以你能保持这种大脑结构的事实，让我确信如果我们扫描你的大脑，它会很大，而且两年后、一年后会更大。
And they go, No, I want to go through it. They come off the stimulation and people are like, this is the seat of what we're talking about. Right, exactly. And it learns. So the fact that you've kept this brain structure, I'm convinced if we image your brain, it'd be large and it would be larger in two years and a year.
但这就是‘没有休息日’的理论依据——因为它可以增长，也可以萎缩。
But this is the no days off rationale because it can grow and it can shrink.
我明白你现在说的。我以前完全不懂这些。虽然我经常和人交流，但真希望能把这些写成文字。你用大家能理解的方式表达了出来，而我永远无法用语言描述我构建的东西。
I know what you're saying right now. I didn't know any of this. And I never and I always talk to people. I wish I could just put this on paper and you're saying it in a way that people can understand. I can never put into words on what I built.
还有我们所有人内在的力量。但你用如此科学的方式阐述。像我这样的人，多数会被认为疯了。所以我不爱谈论这些，兄弟。我知道自己不疯。
And the power that is within all of us. But you put it so like in scientific way. Most people like for me, he's just crazy. That's why I don't like talking about it, man. I know I'm not crazy.
我清楚自己必须做什么才能到达目标。人们觉得疯狂是因为——如果你无法想象自己做某件事，那么正在做的人就是疯子。因为在你的逻辑里，这说不通。于是你得给那人贴标签，而我的标签通常是：他疯了，他这样，他那样。
I know what I had to do to get where I had to go. People look at it as crazy because they're people that just If you can't imagine yourself doing something, if you can't imagine yourself doing something, the person that's doing it is crazy. Because in your mind, the logic behind it, it doesn't compute. Therefore, you have to give somebody a title. And a title for me is usually, he's crazy, he's this, he's that.
不，不。不知为何，我这辈子极度渴望出人头地。我创造了这一切。多年来我一直在试图向人们解释。但即便你现在解释着，这他妈还是最简单的部分。
No, no. For some reason, me wanting to be somebody so fucking bad in my life. I created that. And I've been trying to figure out years of my life trying to explain to people. But even though you're explaining it now, this is the easy fucking part.
他们听这些屁话才是最简单的部分。之所以总有万里挑一的人存在，是因为真正付诸实践、投入实际工作——不，兄弟。不。不。那才是心魔出现的地方。
Them listening to this shit is the easy fucking part. The part that why there'll always be the ones of ones is because putting that practice, putting that into actual work, no, man. No. No. That's where the demons come in.
这就是你喜欢的状态，我我不想变得更好。我不想这就是变得更好的代价。我不想变得更好。所以这就是为什么到处都是平庸之辈。这让我他妈的火冒三丈。
That's where you like, I I don't wanna be better. I don't wanna be this is what it takes to be better. I don't wanna be better. So everybody's that's why there's a lot of average. And it makes me so fucking mad.
每天我走在街上，满眼都是他妈的平均水平。他们还来问我，你是怎么做到的？我没办法告诉你方法，因为你他妈的根本不会去做。你不会去做的。你会继续平庸下去，因为每天醒来，就像他说的，喝咖啡、煎煎饼、亲亲女友、亲亲孩子。
Every day I walk this earth and I see average all over the fucking place. And they want to ask me, how did you do it? I can't tell you how because you're not going to fucking you're not going to do it. You're not gonna do it. You're continue being out because every day you wake up, like he says, like, get the coffee, make the make the pancakes, kiss the girl, kiss the kids.
你醒来就直接工作。你的大脑立刻进入状态。没人必须这样做。没有人。我也不怪他们。
You wake up right to work. Immediate your mind is in action. No one must do that. No one. And I don't blame them.
但别到时候生气。当你躺在病床上，七八十岁了，想着：妈的，我感觉自己一事无成。因为你确实没做成。你啥都没干。
But don't be mad. When you're laying there in your fucking bed and you're in the fucking hospital and you're 70, 80, 90 years old and you're thinking, man, I feel like I didn't fucking do something. Because you did. You didn't do it. You didn't do shit.
你可能过着优越的生活，但内心总觉得空虚。我不觉得空虚。所以随便你怎么评价我。我他妈浑身上下没有一根骨头是空虚的，因为我发现真正的魔法药水——至少对我的生活来说——就是持续行动，这让我非常充实。
You may live a great life, man, but you always could feel empty inside. I don't feel empty. So call me what you want. There's not one empty bone in my fucking body because I have figured out that really the magic potion, at least to my life, and it's very rewarding.
人们总爱谈论自己当年多厉害。我经常听到这种话：你真该看看我高中时的样子。每次我都想笑。是啊。
People like to talk about what they used to be able to do. I hear this a lot. You know, you should have seen me in high school. I always laugh. Yep.
就像，好吧，明白了。不只是男人这样，女生也会说：你真该看我高中健身时的身材。人们总是怀念自己曾经能做到某件事的时光，而现在不行了。你简直想抓住他们说：听着，那是过去的你，这才是现在的你。
Like, yeah, okay, got it. And it's not just guys, you should have seen me working out in high school. I was super fit. People will look back to a time where they felt like they were capable of something and now they're not. And you kind of want to just grab them and wait, that was you then, it's you now.
然而，人们往往认为成功时的周遭条件必然是成功的一部分。这很合理，可以理解。就像我曾处于那种情境下取得了成功，而现在的情境却未能如愿。
And, but people tend to think about how the conditions that were around success must have been part of it. And you can understand why. It's like, it's very rational. I was in that situation, I was successful. I'm in this situation, I'm not.
那是过去，这是现在——所以能力相当，对吧？你看人们是如何陷入这种循环的。正如你提到的，你人生前二十年都生活在极度艰难的环境中。
That was the past, this is the present ergo capable, right? You see how people get into these loops. And as you mentioned, you spent the first twenty years of your life in extremely challenged circumstances.
而且
And
于是你能理解人们为何会感到事事艰难。比如体重三百磅时——虽然我从未达到这个重量，但可以想象起身活动有多痛苦。这很挫败。我有个朋友体重超三百磅，我们劝了他多年，但始终无果。
then you can see how people get to a point where like everything feels hard. Like when you're three hundred pounds, I haven't never been three hundred pounds, but I can't imagine it feels good to get up and move around. It's defeating. I got a friend, he's in excess of three hundred pounds. We've been trying on him for years, but no no win.
他小腿后侧有严重的牛皮癣，有时身上会有异味，因为体型过大无法彻底清洁。他真的很庞大。
And he's got crazy psoriasis on the back of his calves and he he actually smells bad sometimes because he he can't wash as well as he would. He's big big.
确实。
Right.
这让我心生怜悯。要知道，他的生活本就艰难，还在不断恶化。这个年轻人因明显原因已出现许多健康问题。所以像他这样的人会想：生活已经够难了。
And it pulls on my sympathy. Right. You know, but life is very hard for him and getting worse. He's a young guy with a lot of medical issues now for obvious reasons. And so I think people like that think, it's already hard.
我为什么要让它变得更难？你的信息有点不同，而且你有生活经验。
Why would I make it harder? Your message is a little different and you have the life experience.
这大不相同。
It's a lot different.
你经历过。所以对我来说，说“哦，是的，减肥吧”。你知道，我曾经是个瘦子，后来变得不那么瘦了。所以我真的没有立场。你对那些说“听着，我早上起床都很困难”的人说什么？
You've been there. So for me saying, oh yeah, lose weight. You know, I was a skinny guy who got to be a less skinny guy. So I don't really have a foot to stand on. What do you say to those people who are like, listen, I'm getting up in the morning is hard.
试图不让自己陷入泪水和痛苦的泥潭中已经很困难了。
Trying to not dissolve into a puddle of my own tears and my own misery is hard.
你知道为什么人们如此认同我的书吗？不知为何，上帝让我几乎经历了地球上所有糟糕的情况。所以当我与人交谈时，我不会粉饰，因为我不是以一个一生都保持175磅体重的人的身份在说话。我对那些人说得不多。也许你是个废物。
Do you know why people connect with my book so well? For some reason, God put me in almost every fucked up situation on the planet Earth. So when I talk to people, it's not sugarcoated because I I'm not saying it from I'm always the one hundred and seventy five pounds my whole life. I don't say much to those people. Maybe you're a piece of shit.
也许你想做个无名小卒。也许你对生活中的现状很满意，因为显然你就是如此。也许你没有决心成为一个更好的自己。如果你愿意接受这一点，我会支持你。如果你满足于现在的自己，每天醒来都臭气熏天，因为无法好好洗澡，皮肤因为健康状况糟糕而一团糟，连衣服都穿不上。
Maybe you're you wanna be nobody. Maybe you're happy exactly where you are in life because, obviously, you are. Maybe you don't have the determination to be somebody better than who you are. And if you wanna live with that, I'll support you in that. If you're good with being who you are, that every day you wake up and every day you smell like shit because you can't wash your body well, and your skin's messed up because you're health so bad, and you can't put your clothes on.
对吧？你需要帮助。就像我曾经需要别人帮我擦屁股一样。这让你感觉良好吗？
Right? You need help with that. You need help. Like, when I was doing I need help wiping my ass. That makes you feel good?
我对你无话可说。如果你每天醒来都看到人们被恐惧困扰，但他们显然喜欢恐怖片，因为他们一直在看同一部该死的电影。我不喜欢恐怖片。很多人喜欢恐怖片，所以我不会对他们多说什么。我对你说的就是刚才那些话，因为我曾经也是你。
Nothing I can say to you. If every day you wake up with this see, people are haunted, but they obviously like horror films because they keep watching the same fucking movie. I don't like horror films. A lot of people like horror films, so I don't say much to them. I say exactly what I said to you right there because I was once you.
我不喜欢恐怖片，所以我改变了。有些人就像你说的那样，当你懒惰又肥胖时，你的世界会变得非常狭小。他们的意志力如此薄弱，以至于根本不存在，你也无法给予他们。必须要有某种内在的东西。这就是我现在要说的，因为这并非捷径。
I didn't like horror films, so I changed it. Some people are just they become, like you said, it gets real small when you're lazy and you're fat. Your will their will is so small that they don't have any, and you can't give it to them. There has to be something. This is this is what I'm talking about now because this isn't a hack.
这必须存在于你内心。你内在的某些东西必须觉醒。通常唯一能唤醒它的人就是你自己。有时你可以读读大卫·高金斯的书，因为我曾经比他描述的更糟糕。但如果你连一丝火星都没有，你知道，哪怕只是微弱的，那你就完了。
This has to be in you. Something in you has to wake up. And usually the only person that can wake it up is you. Sometimes you can read a David Goggins book because I was all this shit and then a lot more fucked up. But if you don't have a little flame, you know, just that just barely, you're done.
我无法为你点燃它。这就是我想拼命传达的生活残酷真相。你可以看着我。你可以看你自己。你可以看罗根、卡梅伦·海恩斯这些家伙的节目。
I can't I can't light it for you. And that's the harsh reality of this life that I wanna get across so fucking bad. You can watch me. You can watch you. You can watch fucking Rogan and Cameron Haynes, all these motherfuckers.
你可以去参加托尼·罗宾斯那些废话课程，尝试所有这些玩意。如果你不断回头，不断花钱花钱再花钱却毫无结果，你可能会想，哇，也许该试试大卫·高金斯。他也不会帮到你。你必须探索、审视自己的内心——你究竟想从生命中获得什么？你的朋友和很多人根本他妈的不想要这些。
You can go to Tony Robbins's fucking bullshit, all this shit, do all this shit. If you you could keep going back and keep spending money and spending money and spending money with no results, you can wonder, wow, maybe let me go try out David Goggins. He ain't going to fucking help you. You have to explore, examine the insides of yourself And what do you really want out of life? Your friend and a lot of people out here just don't fucking want it.
所以知道吗？享受你的人生吧。从300磅到350磅，到400磅，再到450磅，500磅，因为你不想要改变。这就是残酷现实。我什么都给不了你。
So guess what? Have fun with your life. Go from three to three fifty to 400 to four fifty to 500 because you don't want it. And that's the harsh reality. I can't give you shit.
你也给不了他们任何东西。我能给你的只有想法。归根结底，当我减肥时，我不得不每天早晨痛苦地在寒冷中醒来——那是印第安纳州的十一月。我很痛苦。这就是你的新生活。
You can't give them shit. I can give you ideas. At the end of the day, when I was losing the weight, I had to miserably wake up every morning in the cold because it was Indiana, November when it started. I was miserable. This is your new life.
他们会放弃的。这毫无快乐可言，背后也没有平静。这糟透了，简直他妈糟透了。
They're gonna leave it. There's no happiness about it. There's no peace behind it. It sucks. It just fucking sucks.
如果我能教给任何人一件事，那就是这他妈糟透了。而且会一直糟下去。直到某天你人生中某个特殊时刻，情况才可能稍微好转。但你必须先减掉该减的体重，朋友。抱歉。
And that's the one thing if I could teach anybody anything, it just fucking sucks. And it's gonna continue to suck. And then one day you get to a a special part of your life that it might get a little bit better. But to lose the weight you have to lose, my friend. Sorry.
每天都会他妈很痛苦，因为当你三百磅时，出去减肥可能会受伤。然后你得处理伤病，接着更加抑郁。这就是我的经历。抑郁时又会暴饮暴食，恶性循环。
It's gonna suck every fucking day because in when you're three hundred pounds, you're gonna go out to lose weight, you could probably get injured. So then you gotta work on the injury and then you get even more depressed. This is what I went through. And then you're hungry because now you're depressed. It's just a vicious cycle.
如果你心理不够强大，缺乏意志力，就会不断掉回这个深渊。而真正的强者会坐稳了说：去他妈的。我骂脏话是因为这就是真实的我，这就是造就现在的我必经之路。抱歉，不是那种轻飘飘的...
And if you're not strong mentally and you have no willpower, you're going to continue falling back in this hole versus the man that sits back and goes, all right motherfucker. This is why I cuss because this is what is in me. This is this is what it took for me to be me. Sorry. It didn't take, hey.
听着。我们今天要干这个。不，这他妈真的太痛苦了。这是现实，兄弟。
Okay. We're gonna do this today. No. This fucking really sucks. This is real, dude.
展开剩余字幕（还有 384 条）
这就是现实。每一天，我都在...都在倒退。倒退。倒退。倒退。
This is real. And every day, I'm I'm I'm I'm setback. I'm setback. I'm setback. I'm setback.
所以我会这样告诉你兄弟：每天醒来后的前四周，在真正减重前你会不断受挫，因为大脑会一直他妈耍你。三百磅的身体里根本不存在多巴胺。
So this is what I would tell your boy. This is exactly what I tell him. Every day you wake up, you're gonna probably be setback for the first four weeks before you lose to significant weight because of the mind is gonna be fucking with you the whole time. There's no dopamine. There's no dopamine in there at three hundred pounds.
你一无所有。你的荷尔蒙失调了。你必须构想出比你更强大的东西。得有某种力量把你从床上拽起来，而这需要你自己创造。它必须是虚假的，因为你并非如此。
You got nothing. Your hormones are shot. You have to envision something that is more powerful than you. Something has to get you out of bed and you have to create it. It has to be false because you're not it.
你就是坨肥硕的废物，这就是现实。所以你得给自己造个虚假的现实泡泡，才能开始自我改造。这才是真相。
You're a fat piece of shit, and that's the reality of it. So you have to create a false reality to live in that just to get to work on yourself. That's the reality.
他会看到这段视频并感激这个信息。我们等着看他怎么做。过去十三年他毫无改变。但我有些朋友，曾经沉溺毒品酒精，一次谈话后就彻底戒除，再没回头。
He'll he'll see this and he'll appreciate that message. We'll see what he does. So so far last thirteen years, it's been no movement. But I've had other friends who who were drug and alcohol addicts who quit after one conversation, never went back.
这太棒了。这说明他们内心渴望改变。
That's awesome. That that means they they want it.
是啊。有个不愿透露名字的家伙，在2019年7月4日派对上找到我说：'我就是堆烂泥'。他反复说'看看我，60岁了还是一滩烂泥'。
Yeah. Just one one guy, I won't out him, but walked up to me at a party in 2019, July 4 party and said, I'm a pile. I And go, And he goes, I'm a pile. Look at me. I'm 60.
我问他喝酒吗？他说天天喝。我问多少？他说一箱。还说抽很多大麻，不过其他方面倒是挺成功。
I go, do you drink? He goes, every day. I go, how much? He goes, a case. He goes, I smoke a lot of weed, but he's successful in other areas of his life.
于是我说：'听着，我的建议是——为你自己戒掉酒精和大麻。不是命令你，下午两点前别进食。早上蹬健身车要像被毒镖追杀那样拼命，直到快吐出来为止。'
And so I said, well, here's what I know. Quit alcohol and weed for you. You know, I'm not telling people what to do. Don't eat until 2PM. Get on the exercise bike and pedal in the morning like someone's chasing you with a poison dart till you want to puke.
我当时算是半开玩笑的。对吧。结果两个月后，他说，我戒酒了。我减了30磅。后来总共减了60磅。
And I was kind of half joking. Right. And then two months later, he's like, I haven't had a drink. I lost 30 pounds. He lost that 60 pounds.
他再也没回头。现在他身材超级棒。太神奇了。有些人就是能瞬间转变。他对自己要求非常严格
He never went back. Now he's super fit. It's amazing. So some people flip the switch. He is very self critical
嗯。
Mhmm.
天性如此。这就是触发自我批判的原因。没错。
By nature. That's what flips the self critical. Yep.
这就是转变的开关。对啊。想想看，兄弟。我们都知道该怎么做。不需要Angie Shuberman来告诉我们。
That's what flips the switch. Yeah. Think about it, man. We know what to do. We don't need Angie Shuberman to tell us what to do.
我们每个人都知道该怎么做。这就是为什么他能这么快转变。因为他知道该怎么做。他并没有完全按照你的方案来。
We know what to do. Every one of us. That's why he flipped it so fast. Because he knew what to do. He didn't go by your exact protocol.
他没有完全按照——不，他清楚地知道该怎么做。而你对他说的那些话，只是唤醒了他。他知道该怎么做。这就是人们需要明白的——你明明知道该怎么做，为什么不去做呢？
He didn't go by the exact No, he knew exactly what to do. And you just saying some shit to him. It woke something up, he knew what to do. And that's the thing that people need to get that, you know what to do, why aren't you doing it?
我现在是在说我自己，你知道，那些被动消费的模式，它们很容易就淹没我们。我以前有个习惯，现在正在与之抗争，因为我知道我们今天会有这场对话——我喜欢在整点或半点开始做事。对，这对我来说是最糟糕的做法。因为如果我错过半点，比如现在是12:33。
And I'm talking about myself now, you know, those modes of just kind of passive consumption, they're so easy to wash over us. I used to have this thing and I'm fighting this now because I knew we were going to have this conversation today where I like to start things on the hour or the half hour. Right. Worst practice in the world for me. Because if I miss that half hour, I'm like, it's 12:33.
我会等到12:45开始。对，12:45了，我又想等到1点。结果时间就这么浪费了。
I'll start at 12:45. Right. It's 12:45. I'll start at one. I just lost time.
对吧？这太蠢了是不是？前几天我还想，天啊，我得告诉大卫这件事。因为我现在的新原则是：不管几点，立刻开始。
Right. And then so this is so stupid. Right? And the other day I was like, man, I gotta tell David about this. Because my new thing is I start no matter what time it is.
没错。就算半夜醒来——我有个朋友总在半夜画画。我说你这是失眠吧？他说不知道，就是想画。有时画完继续睡，有时就不睡了。
Right. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I got a friend who paints in the middle of the night. I'm like, you're an insomniac. He's like, I don't know, I just do it. Then sometimes he goes back to sleep, sometimes he doesn't.
每个人都有自己的怪癖，我仔细想过这个问题。我决定再也不说'我要从1点开始'这种话了，因为我太了解自己。
Everyone's got their thing, I thought about this. I'm like, I'm no more am I going to say I'm starting at one because I know me.
确实。
Right.
如果我错过1点整，叮——就完了。然后我的笔没碰到纸，或者手指没敲键盘，我就不会做了。对吧？这是我坦率承认的弱点。
If I miss the 01:00, ding. Right. And then my pen's not hitting the paper or not typing on keyboard, I'm not gonna do it. Right. Like, that that's a self admitted weakness.
老兄，我太爱这种感觉了。真的，这种状态伴随我很多年了。我知道自己能做到，但让人辗转反侧的是——它注定会发生。
I love it, man. Yeah. I had that for a lot of years. I know I'm gonna do it. That's the haunting part is that it's going to happen.
这是必然的，铁一般的事实。就像人生没有免死金牌，兄弟，根本没有。那种生活是我无法想象的。
It has to happen. And that's a fact. Like, there's no get out of jail free car, bro. None. Like, that is a life that I don't know.
我不具备那种能力...或者说我有能力，但还不够格——不够优秀，不够聪明，天赋不足。有些人可以，有些人能从一开始就...
I don't I don't have that ability or I have the ability. I don't have the I'm not good enough, smart enough. I'm not talented enough to do that. Some people are. Some people can start at one.
有些人甚至根本不需要起步。如果你天赋欠缺，就不能瘫着说'半小时后再开始'。我做不到，必须现在就开始。而每次开始后，还得重新再来。
Some people don't have to start at all. If you lack talent, you can't sit back and say, I'll start in half an hour. I can't do that. I gotta start now. And after I get back from starting, I gotta start again.
当完成一次训练或学习后，如果效果不理想，就必须回头重来。因为重复才是教会我一切的老师。说实话，勤奋能战胜一切。不过显然，你是个天赋异禀的人。
And then when I get done with that run or that study session, if it weren't good enough, I gotta go back again. Because repetition is what is is what taught me everything. So you can honestly outwork anything. But it's that you obviously are a very talented man.
这个嘛...我确实在某些领域下过苦功，毕生都在打磨自己擅长的事。
Well, I I have worked hard at certain things and built up some things that I've been good at most of my life.
你太了不起了。
You're amazing.
收集、整理和传播信息，这是我从孩提时代就开始做的事。以前每周一在学校，我都会讲些周末学到的东西。看，就是那样。但他们带我去看了心理医生。我们同龄。
Gathering, organizing and disseminating information, something I've been doing since I was a little kid. Used to give lectures at school on Monday about stuff I learned over the weekend. See, check that out. But they took me to a psychiatrist. We're the same age.
那时候如果被送去见心理医生，人们会觉得你疯了。其实我没疯。是啊，
Back then if we got sent to a psychiatrist, people thought you were crazy. Wasn't one. Yeah,
没错。我没疯。
exactly. I wasn't one.
确实。所以我记得当时觉得自己像个怪胎。而且，我没有口吃，但有发出咕哝声的抽搐症状。疲惫时就会复发。唯一能缓解的方法就是用头撞东西或摇头，这就是为什么滑板运动对我有帮助——摔跤后我会觉得，哦，舒服多了。
Exactly. So I remember feeling like a freak. I also, I didn't have a stutter, I had a grunting tick. It comes back when I'm tired. And the only thing that helped that was hitting my head on something, shaking my head, which is why skateboarding was good because I'd slam and I'd feel like, oh, feel good.
这并不健康。你知道，这样不好。或者只有工作能让我摆脱这种状态。就像保持高转速，你懂的。总之这就是我，但随着时间的推移，某些特质开始像天赋或礼物，随便你怎么称呼，但也有很多事对我来说极其困难。
That's not healthy. You know, that's not good. Or just work is what gets it out. It's like an RPM or high, you know. Anyway, that's me that but yeah, I think certain things over time, feel like talent or gifts or whatever you want to call them, but there are many things that are exceedingly difficult for me.
我从你的榜样中学到了很多。我知道你既谦逊又明确表示，通过观察你无法理解这些，但我觉得你今天分享的方式，以及之前在其它播客中的分享，确实能帮助人们深入理解你谈论的内容。我们正在详细阐述这点，我认为很有意义。比如被困扰的感觉和那个执念。对吧。
And I have learned from your example. I know that you are very both humble and very clear that like, you don't have you say, I don't you're not gonna get it by examining you, but I think the way you're sharing today and the way you shared on other podcasts before, there are pieces that really help people feel into the process of what you're talking about today. We're elaborating on it, I think a lot. You know, this notion being haunted and the stick. Right.
我是说，当然，现在完全明白为什么你不想谈论睡眠、休息或恢复了。因为这显然很重要。我听你说过，是的，你睡觉。是的，你吃饭。是的，你补充水分。
I mean, of course, of course, now it makes so much sense why you don't want to talk about sleep or rest or recovery. Because that's sure that's important. I've heard you say, yes, you sleep. Yes, you eat. Yes, you hydrate.
是的，你会拉伸你的腰肌什么的。但有趣的是这怎么就变成了病毒式传播的信息。
Yes, you you will stretch your psoas or whatever. But it's funny how that becomes the viral message.
所以今天我才会说去他妈的。
That's why I said fuck that today.
但那不是你独有的信息，不是你独有的主张。任何人都可以谈论那些。所以我理解得对吗？你承认睡眠重要、恢复重要，但这些不是你关注的核心？
But that's not the unique that's not the the unique message that you carry. Like, anyone can talk about that. So do I have that right that you're acknowledging sleep is important, recovery is important, that's not what you're about?
你必须舍弃一些东西。没错。冰浴、桑拿、睡眠、营养。这些他妈都很重要，老兄。但我没时间兼顾所有。
You have to forego something. Yes. Ice baths, saunas, sleep, nutrition. All this shit's so fucking important, dude. I don't have time for some of it.
为了获取我必须获取的东西，总得有所牺牲。就像你说年轻时发表演讲的经历——在我同龄时还在为克服口吃挣扎。随着年龄增长我意识到这些都重要，但当时要治好口吃，我必须建立该死的自信。
To get to extract what I had to extract, something had to give. Like you talk about you when you were younger, you would you would give these speeches and stuff. The same age you were giving speeches, I was trying to figure out how to say the without stuttering. And I realized as I got older that all these things are important. But for me to stop stuttering, I get a bill of fucking confidence.
言语治疗没用。什么都没用。我不得不放弃很多东西，才变成现在这个足够自信的混蛋。让我能站在万人会场里不再低头躲闪。
And speech therapy didn't help that. Nothing helped that. I have to forego a lot of shit to be as fucked up as I am to build confidence. For me to stand in a fucking room of 10,000 of one person and not and be like, oh, put my head down. Let me look around.
让我先...先读完这些段落。可就在轮到我发言前，我总会口吃着逃出房间。那种生活太痛苦了。除了撒谎、自卑、幼稚、肥胖，作为学校里少数黑人孩子之一——这些都是我建立自信必须克服的重重障碍。
Let me let me, read these paragraphs first. And then before I read the paragraphs, because they call me next, let me just leave the room kind of with stutter. That's a miserable life. And that's one of many things I did besides lying, besides being insecure, besides being immature, besides being fat, besides being one of the only black kids in my school. There's a lot of things I had to overcome to gain confidence.
为此，我不得不舍弃许多。真的很多。所以我再次成了被误解的那个人。你每天只睡四小时，有时两小时，有时甚至彻夜不眠。
And in doing so, a lot of that had to go. A lot of it. So I became the guy that became once again misunderstood. You only sleep four hours a day, two hours a day. Sometimes you don't sleep at all.
就像，这是什么？那又是什么？还有这个？我知道都很重要，但我做不到。
Like, what's this? And what's this? And what's this? I know it's all important. I can't.
为了获得自信，我必须有所牺牲，因为自信是我前行之路的基石。这个糟糕的孩子必须经历许多糟糕的事才能建立自信。在这个过程中，我的口吃消失了，自信也随之而来。如今我的生活更接近某种状态——但毫无平衡可言，完全没有。
Something's gotta go for me to get confidence because confidence is the building block of where I'm trying to go. For me to gain confidence in myself, this fucked up kid has got to do a lot of fucked up shit to gain confidence. And along the way, the stutter went away, and I gained confidence. And now my life is a little bit more there's just no balance. There's no balance.
对多数人而言这或许更正常些，但永远不会有平衡，因为自信和信念需要你日复一日地构建。总得有所取舍。我愿意放弃很多东西来换取它，因为我知道——如果你想击垮一个人，就夺走他的这份信念。是的，我有时不睡觉，有时饮食不规律，有时顾此失彼。但任何时候你把我放进万人会场，我都会昂首走进去，因为我知道站上这个舞台需要付出什么——而大多数人做不到。
It's a little bit more what it should be for a lot of people, but there'll never be balance because confidence is something that you constantly confidence and belief, you're building every day. And so something's gotta give. And I'm willing to forego a lot of things to have that because I know that is that is if you wanna give somebody kryptonite, take that shit away from them. So, yeah, I I don't sleep sometimes, and sometimes I don't eat the right way, and sometimes I don't do this and do that and whatever, man. But you put me in a room with 10,000 people anytime of the day, and I walk in there thinking I'm a bass motherfucker in here because I know what it took to be on this stage, and a lot of people will not do that.
这就是代价。
So that's what it takes.
有个问题从我们开始对话时就想问你，我反复思考过，甚至在准备这次见面的几周前就在想。现在我要坦白说：我不确定该如何开口。
There's a question I've been wanting to ask you since we started, And I thought about coming in here, and I've been thinking about in the weeks ahead of this. And I'm gonna just come clean and say, I don't exactly know how to ask the question.
直接问。
Just ask it.
所以这是关于人际关系的。
So it's about relationships.
哦，去做吧，伙计。所以我
Oh, do it, man. So I
我深知自己确实如此。嗯。当只有我一人时，我的自律性会高得多。但那是因为早年经历过一些事，后来我曾是个糟糕的学生，差点没读完高中。但当我认真起来时，就真的全力以赴了。我通过远离所有人做到了这一点。
know in myself Mhmm. That my discipline is much higher when it's just me. But that's because I had certain things early on, but then I had I was a terrible student, barely finished high school. But then when I got serious, I got serious. I did that by staying away from everybody.
任何有过任何关系的人，尤其是恋爱关系的人都知道，是的，你能从中获得巨大的支持。比如，"你能行的，亲爱的"。你会想，"没错，我能行"。她说，
And anyone who's ever had a relationship of any kind, but in particular romantic relationships knows that yes, you can derive tremendous support from those. Like, you got this, baby. You can go in. You're like, yeah, I got this. She said,
我能搞定。
I got this.
知道吗？完成某件事并与他人分享的感觉很棒。共享晚餐，得到拥抱。但这一切也有另一面。对吧。
Know? Feels great to finish something and share with someone. Share a meal, you know, get the hug. But there's another side to all of that. Right.
我想从你那里了解更多的是，早晨床上有个温暖的身体躺在你身边时，你就不想起床。他们也有需求。你有自己的使命，而人们有时也需要从我们这里得到些什么。对吧。
That I'd like to learn more about from you, which is there's a warm body next to you in bed in the morning. You don't want to get up. They also have needs. You've got your mission that people sometimes need things from us. Right.
但是
But
而且常常那些最爱我们、真心想支持我们的人，却并不理解这种状态。他们往往是第一个劝我们‘听着，休息一天吧’的人。然后我脑子里就会开始循环‘你就是想偷懒’，这几乎演变成一种偏执。我现在可没在夸自己。
also oftentimes the people that love us most that truly love us and that want to support us don't understand this thing. And they're the first people to tell us like, listen, take a day off. And then this whole cycle, at least in my head, goes off like, You just want a vacation. And then it's almost like a paranoia. I'm not saying anything nice about myself right now.
没关系，
All good,
老兄。前女友们肯定会说‘没错’，她们可都记得这些事。所以身边人的支持至关重要，无论是朋友还是恋人。
man. Former girlfriends are gonna be like, Yeah. Like, you know, they remember that. So support of people close to you is critical. This could be friends, be romantic partners, whatever.
但这也像双刃剑。它可能彻底瓦解你所说的这种状态，因为关心我们的人也想看到我们安逸。他们希望我们快乐、平静，希望我们睡个好觉醒来，他们也有自己的期待。你该如何解开这个结？
But they're also the knife cuts both ways. It can be the thing that can really undermine this thing that you're talking about, because the people that care about us also want to see us comfortable. They want see us happy, they want to see us peaceful, want they to see us wake up from a great night's sleep and they want things too. So how do you untangle that whole bit?
有趣的是，我虽然失衡，但主要是向家庭倾斜。人们不理解我——我会停止这种失衡。我会完成所有工作，但前提是确保家人得到他们所需的一切。
Well, it's funny, I'm unbalanced, but I'm mostly unbalanced towards the family side. People don't get about me. I'll stop being unbalanced. I get all my stuff in. But what I do is I make sure that my family has everything they need.
他们需要的一切。那些想成为我家人的成员。有些人不愿意，有些家人不想参与大卫·戈金斯的生活。我理解。
Everything they need. Those who wanna be part of my family. Some don't. Some family members don't wanna be part of David Goggins. I get it.
我明白了。这就是生活。属于我家人的人，我会满足他们所需的一切，好让他们别来烦我。我确保你们他妈过得开心，因为我要去工作。我说的可不是跳伞灭火。
I got it. That's life. Those who are part of my family, I give them everything they need so they can leave me the fuck alone. I make sure you're happy as fuck because I gotta go to work. And I don't mean smoke jumping.
我说的也不是跑步。我是说，所有的一切。这耗尽了我的全部精力，我不能让你掺和进我的破事里。绝对不行。所以我知道，要拥有家庭，我必须确保你明白我会给你需要的一切。
I don't mean running. I mean, all of it. It takes every I can't have you in my fucking shit. Can't. So I know for me to have a family, I got to make sure that you realize I'm going give you everything you need.
所以当你开始抱怨时，我会说，听着，等等。我倾尽一生就是为了给你所需的一切。现在我需要这点时间，让自己成为最好的自己，因为这段旅程开始时我孑然一身。我要让所有人都清楚这一点，因为这就是我的生活。我被留下独自思考。
So when you start bitching at me, I'm going say, look, hang on. I dedicated my life to give you everything you need. I need this time right here for me to be the best I can be because this journey started without anybody. And I make sure everybody knows that because of my life. I've been left think about it.
我年纪轻轻就被丢下自己解决这些破事。我靠自己搞明白了，而且对自己来说非常成功。没人能闯进来打乱我的节奏。所以我确保会满足你的一切需求。无论你需要我什么，你都能得到。
I was left alone at a young age to figure this shit out. I figured it out for myself and it'd been very successful for myself. No one's gonna come in here and fuck with my shit. That's why I make sure I will take care of whatever you need. Whatever you need from me, you got it.
金钱、房子、我的爱、我的支持。我会给你需要的一切。话虽如此，我会以最高标准做到这些。我说这话时詹妮弗就在隔壁房间。所以詹妮弗，如果你觉得不对，请进来指正。
Money, house, my love, my support. I'm gonna give you everything you need. That said, I do it the highest level possible. And I'm saying it with Jennifer in the next room. So please come in and say something if it's wrong, Jennifer.
我他妈不在乎。有话直说。这样当我去工作时，我希望你也能同样对待我，因为我要做的事需要我投入全部。所以我确保对家人极度偏心，才能同样极度偏心地对待自己。这就是我的方式。
I don't give a fuck. Say what you gotta say. So then when it's time for me to go to work, I expect you to do the same for me because it takes every bit of me to do what I have to do. So I make sure that I'm very unbalanced for my family So I can be exactly that unbalanced for myself. And that's how I do it.
我事先就跟人说明白。我不是你理想中的男人。我保证。会有很多深夜，很多清晨，很多我需要独处思考下一步计划的时刻。我不能有烦恼，不能有这个，不能有那个。
I let people know right up front. I'm not what you want in a man. I guarantee that. There's gonna be a lot of late nights, a lot of early mornings, a lot of times where I get to be by myself thinking about the process that is next in my mind. I can't have aggravation, can't have this, can't have that.
有很多事情，但我一开始就会让他们知道。我对这些直言不讳。有些关系适合我，有些则不然。但这就是真实的我。我人生中做错的一件事就是多年来试图取悦他人。
There's a lot of things, but I let them know upfront. I'm very vocal about that. Sometimes relationships work for me, sometimes they didn't. But that's who I am. One thing I did wrong in my life was I tried for so many years to please people.
我以牺牲自我为代价去做这件事。我保留了很多未展现的部分。当你这样做时，你就停止了真正的生活。但对方却他妈的高兴极了，因为你给了他们想要的一切。他们的生活很充实，而你却感到空虚。
And I did it at the expense of myself. I was leaving a lot in the tank. And when you do that, you stop living. But the person in your life is happy as fuck because you give them everything they want. They have their their life is full, but you feel empty.
这对我来说不是真正的关系。所以对我来说，重要的是你要清楚知道我是谁，因为这就是生活塑造的我。我不打算改变，因为我刚刚才明白这一点。所以我不会妥协大卫·戈金斯。
And that's not a relationship to me. So for me, it's important that you know exactly who I am because this is what life made. And I'm not trying to change it because I just figured it out. So I'm not trying to compromise David Goggins.
我会
I will
永远永远不会妥协大卫·戈金斯。这并不意味着我不会给予你所需、所想、所渴望的。但我不需要金钱。我不需要名声。我什么都不需要。
never ever compromise David Goggins. That doesn't mean I won't give you what you need and what you want and what you desire. But I don't need money. I don't need fame. I don't need shit.
所以我把这些都舍弃了。我真正需要的是确保每一天每一夜都锤炼那份意志力，直到生命终结。因为唯有这样才能持续滋养你，让你保持在应有的位置。一旦意志力消失，三百磅的大卫·戈金斯——虽然现在看不出——但我会带着这副躯壳行走。所以人生中对你重要的事，必须时刻践行，否则你就什么都不是。
So I give it all away. What I do need is to make sure that that willpower is worked on every fucking day and every night for the rest of my life. Cause that's the one thing that's gonna keep me feeding you, keeping you where you need to be. Cause once that willpower is gone, three hundred pound David Goggins, he may not be look like it, but I will walk around with it. So the things that are important to you in life, you must do always or you're nobody.
这就是我处理关系的方式。
And that's how I handle relationships.
阿门。我个人需要改进的是那种直截了当的清晰沟通。因为我能感受到那种情绪，就像内心有些东西没有得到解决，当我独自一人时，情况会容易得多。但当然，渴望人际关系和家庭，我认为这也是人类健康的一部分。非常。
Amen to that. Something I could personally work on is that upfront clear communication. Because I it resonates that feeling of, like, there's something inside that's not getting worked out that I was when I'm on my own, it's it's it's a lot easier. But then, of course, wanting relationships and family, I think that's a healthy part of being human too. Very.
显然，你已经解决了这个问题。所以我感谢你分享这一点。我想我从未听你谈论过不。
Obviously, you've worked it out. So I appreciate you sharing that. I think I've ever heard you talk about No.
人们害怕那个，老兄。人们害怕与妻子、丈夫、女友、男友进行那样的对话。但你为什么害怕？为什么害怕告诉你的另一半——你的妻子或丈夫——真实的你是谁？你是谁。
People are scared of that, man. People are scared of that conversation with their wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend. And but why are you scared of it? Why are you scared to tell a motherfucker, your wife, your husband who you are? Who you are.
完完全全的你自己。这就是我曾经的问题。这是我们许多人在生活中都有的问题。没人知道真正的你是谁。没人知道真正的我是谁。
Exactly who you are. And that was the problem I had. That's a problem that a lot of us have in life. No one knows who you really are. No one knew who I really was.
我曾在一所有很多黑人孩子的学校上学。很多黑人孩子不想加入特种部队。我从未和黑人孩子谈论过特种部队。为什么？我在担心自己会不合群。
I went to a school where there were a lot of black kids. A lot of black kids didn't wanna be in special ops. I never talked about special ops with black kids. Why? I was wondering what I'm not gonna fit in.
那不是他们会做的事。很多黑人孩子不干那种事。所以无论我想做什么，成长过程中没人真正了解真实的我，因为我从不想让任何人知道真实的我。我总是害怕你会说什么或你会怎么想之类的。你有你的感受。
That's not what they do. A lot of black kids don't do that kind of shit. So whatever I wanted to do, no one really knew the real me growing up because I never want anybody to know the real me. I was always afraid of what you might say or how you're gonna feel or whatever. You got feelings.
你有自己的生活要过。所以重要的是，无论你心里想什么，都要让那个人知道。这样，你就是在给他们选择是否与你在一起的机会。这就是我。如果你不喜欢，那也没关系，老兄。
You have a life that you have to live. So it's important that whatever's on your mind, you let that person know. Therefore, you're giving them the option to be with you or not. This is who I am. If you don't like it, that's good, man.
我明白了。但这是大卫·戈金斯。所以那种坦诚的对话非常重要，伙计。这样每个人都知道自己的立场。那个人可能不适合你，这完全没问题。
I I got it. But this is David Goggins. So there's that that honest conversation is very important, man. So everybody knows where they stand. That person may not be for you, and that's all good.
这个世界需要更多这样直截了当、完全诚实的对话。我觉得世界上很多问题都是因为大家都在回避问题核心。
This world could use a lot more of that upfront, completely honest conversation. I feel like so much of the world's problems are because everyone's dancing around the issues.
这需要很大勇气。
Takes a lot.
最近新闻里看到有人因为不愿公开表态而失去工作。你能看出他们其实有点想表态。我觉得人们内心深处渴望直白的信息——你支持什么？反对什么？
Recently in the news, seeing people losing their job because they won't say something publicly. You can tell they kind of want it. It's like people just, I think deep down really crave the direct message. Like, what are you about? What are you not about?
但现在大家都害怕被抵制，这很严重对吧？人们觉得如果做真实的自己或不再伪装，就可能失业。沉默被视为默许，这里面有太多复杂因素。我确实为这代年轻人感到担忧——我们当年可没有社交媒体
But I think now everyone's afraid of getting canceled. It's a big deal, right? You know, getting canceled that people think, oh, I can't work if I am who I am or if I'm not pretending to be somebody else, then, you know, silence is considered, you know, agreement. You know, there's all sorts of complicated stuff. And I I do feel for the generation coming up we didn't have social media
确实。
Right.
完全隔绝这些干扰，不关注这些事其实大有裨益。
And all of that. That getting just walled off from that, there's a real benefit from just not paying attention.
人们喜欢撒谎。人们喜欢撒谎。你知道吗，我曾以为自己是唯一一个在成长过程中撒谎的人，因为我活在自己的小世界里。人们总爱伪装成他们不是的样子，伙计，他们对此乐此不疲。
People love to lie. People love to lie. You know, I thought I was the only person growing like like, when I was growing up, I thought I was the only person that lied because I live in the bubble. And people love to lie about who they're not. They love to lie about who they're not, dude.
正因如此，我才如此坦率真实——有本事就站出来指证我在虚构人生。以我的出身取得如今的成就，这份底气让我无所畏惧：你凭什么评判我？你的人生又有何建树？我的彻底诚实与直面真相，源于我终于认清自我，同时也战胜了内心的大卫·戈金斯（David Goggins），那些如影随形的恶魔。
And that's, for me, the reason why I'm so vulnerable and I'm so real and honest, find somebody to come out and tell me I'm lying about my fucking life. And for me to come where I came from and have the resume I have now, you know the confidence you get, how I don't care who you're gonna you're gonna judge me? You're gonna judge me? What have you done in your life? So me being so honest and so upfront and so truthful, that came with me finally figuring out who I was, but also conquering David Goggins, the demons of David Goggins.
所以现在我就是本敞开的书。直视对方双眼说清楚你他妈到底是谁，然后转身离开——我没问题，兄弟。
Therefore, now you're just an open book. You look at somebody looking right in the eye, tell me exactly who the fuck you are. You walk away. I'm good, bro. Okay.
我深知这一路走来的艰辛。这赋予你一种火焰般的激情，任凭别人骂你黑鬼、同性恋、双性恋或任何脏话。只要你每天浴火重生，抖落尘埃无畏再战，那就来吧！
I know exactly what this journey took to get here. And that gives you a fire and a passion that people can call you nigger. They can call you if you're a lesbian or gay or bisexual. Call you whatever the fuck you want. If you put yourself in the fire and you come out every fucking day like this, brush it off, not scared to go back in there again, come on, man.
你的真实具有力量。你每天与人交流的方式是他人无法企及的，因为他们缺乏真实的根基。真实是起跑线——当你对着丑陋的镜子坦白'我是这个，我是那个'时，你的人生才真正开始，哪怕已四十岁、有妻儿五六。
Your truth is real. You come out every day, man, with a way of talking to people that people don't have because there's no truth behind them. And the truth is a starting line. When you sit in an ugly mirror and say, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, and this, you finally started your life, maybe 40 years old. Maybe 40 years old, five, six kids, wife.
从你正视镜中自己说'我是这些缺陷，我做不到这些'的那一刻起，你的人生才真正启程。而一旦开始这种生活，真相就会磅礴而出，因为你已无所顾忌。这就是问题所在——多数人拒绝进行这种对话，无法面对百万观众坦然承认'我就是这样'然后潇洒离场。
The second you look in that mirror and you say, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this. Well, basically, I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not this, I can't do this, I'm all these insecurities, your life finally started. And once you start that life, man, the truth comes out big time because you don't wanna care. So that's the problem. Most people just don't wanna have that conversation to the point where they can go on stage with a million people and say, I'm all of this, and have a good day.
明白吗？这令人充满力量。极其强大的力量。
See you. It's empowering. It's very empowering.
我觉得我们在学校内外的教育方式，都是在训练我们作为人类，这些年轻的大脑试图弄清楚如何从他人那里获得积极的反馈。是的。我们就像小狗一样。没错。你养了只斗牛犬。
I feel like the way we're educated in school, but also outside of school is we're trained as human beings, these young brains to try and figure out how to get positive feedback from other people. Yep. It's like we're like little dogs. Yep. You got a bulldog.
确实如此。
That's right.
我养过一只斗牛犬。看到你斗牛犬的照片了，它很棒。真是个了不起的品种。
I had a bulldog. Saw the picture of your bulldog. She's great. An amazing species.
它们确实是。
They are.
我认为它们是效率至上的典范。是的，或者说是个了不起的品种，抱歉。它们是个了不起的品种，讲究效率。
I think of them economy of effort. Yep. Or amazing breed, excuse me. They're an amazing breed. Economy of effort.
除非必要，它们什么都不做。这和我们刚才讨论的内容完全相反。有趣的是它们还挺享乐主义的。没错。不过它们确实会为了保护你而死。
They don't do anything unless it's necessary. It's kind of the exact opposite of everything we're talking kind about. Of interesting that and they're kind of hedonist. Yes. Now it is true that they will they'll die to protect you.
哦，
Oh,
是的。这是一种本能。没错。我在科斯特洛身上看到了这一点。我确信
yeah. And it's an instinct. Yes. I saw that with Costello. I'm sure that
我在查理身上也看到了。
I saw it with Charlie.
对。这是本能。但如果它们不在那个位置，如果没有必要付出努力，它们就在休息。是的。所以你的斗牛犬正在休息
Yeah. It's an instinct. But if they're not in that position, if there's no need to exert effort They're resting. Yeah. So your Bulldog's resting for
为你而休息。是的。
you. Yes.
明白了。完全正确。所以你不需要休息因为
Got it. Exactly. So you don't need to rest because
主动恢复，查理。完美。就是这样。
Active recovery, Charlie. Perfect. That's it.
完美。从现在开始这就是你的答案了。主动恢复，他睡觉吗？他休息吗？不，他不知怎么解决了这个问题，所以他的斗牛犬替他做了。
Perfect. That's going be your answer from now on. Active recovery, Does he sleep? Does he rest? No, he somehow worked it out, so his bulldog does it for him.
没错。
Right.
但我们从小就被灌输这种思维方式，当然，赞美让人感觉良好，对吧？有人告诉你，嘿，我喜欢那件衬衫，或者今天干得好，或者做得漂亮，对我来说，因为我喜欢在一个大家庭中长大，有很多朋友，而我从来不是最出色的那个，也不算太差，就是普普通通。比如一个击掌或者感觉被团队认可。你就会觉得，嗯。但你之前提到过这个，关于海豹突击队的例子。
But we're sort of indoctrinated into this way of being from a time that we're young, where, of course, praise feels good, right? Someone tells you, hey, I like that shirt or good job today or nicely done or for me, cause I like growing up in a big packet friends growing up and I was never the great staff lead, wasn't terrible, wasn't great, etcetera. Like a fist bump or like a feeling crewed up. And you're just like, yeah. But you've talked about this before in reference to the SEAL teams.
我们都认识那个圈子里很多人，团队精神对很多人来说是重要组成部分。这很棒。但那种多巴胺刺激也有危险，简单来说，当我们只依赖外部认可时。你谈到既能说干得好，也能回顾个人经历并说，我做过艰难的事，我能一次又一次做到，因为我确实一次又一次做到了。
We both know a lot of people in that community and the teams component is a big part of it for a lot of people. And it's a wonderful thing. Right. But there's a danger to that dopamine hit, for lack of a better way to put it, from what we only derive when it's coming from outside. You're talking about being able to either say good job, but also like just look to one's own personal history and say, I've done hard things and I can do it again and again because I do it again and again and again.
你在说自我养育。是的。自我激励。是的。自我警醒。
You're talking about parenting yourself. Yep. Inspiring yourself. Yep. Scaring yourself.
是的。所有这些都来自内心。与我们被养育的方式截然不同，我们被教育去琢磨如何获得奖励。
Yep. All of that from the inside. Yeah. So very different than the way we're raised, which is to figure out how to get the biscuit.
有趣的是，老兄。人们总想知道我怎么保持动力。那是看不见的努力。你刚才说的很对。别人给你的那些都是虚假的多巴胺刺激。
It's funny, man. People wanna know how I'm always motivated. It's the unseen work. What you just said is a true statement. Those are false dopamine hits that people are giving you, man.
那里面没有真正的信念。那些是团队合作的多巴胺。比如，我凌晨两点跑步，凌晨一点在健身房，独自进行长时间训练。这才是真实的。我能随时提取多巴胺，那种优质的多巴胺。
There's no belief in that. These are teamwork dopamine. Like, I'm out running at 02:00 in the morning, 01:00 in the morning in the gym, long sessions by myself. You that's real. How I'm able to just extract dopamine, the good dopamine whenever I want.
老兄，我生命中99%的时间都是独自训练。没人拍我肩膀鼓励。所有事我都独自完成。即便我仍对自己苛刻，但我清楚自己的付出。所以当人们遭遇困境时，那些'谁来扛船'之类的问题...
Man, I've trained 99% of my life alone. No one pat me on the back. I did all of the work alone. And while I'm still hard on myself, I know what I did. So whenever times get bad for people, all this, who's gonna carry the boats and what?
这很真实。我讨厌人们因此记住我。因为那不是我每天的状态。他们见到我就期待那种能量，但那不是日常的我。
That's real. I hate that people know me for that guy. Because that guy is not every fucking day. Like when they see me, they want that energy. That's not me every day.
我能在需要时立刻调动那种状态——当你长期独自训练，像我这样在痛苦中独居多年，还能靠自己走出来时。我能将自己提升到一种极致真实的热忱与目标感，那种感受甚至无法用言语形容。我不需要任何人。这就是人们来找我寻求动力的原因。没人能激励我，我的履历写满了他妈的自驱力。每当我低落时就会想：等着瞧吧混蛋。
I can extract it immediately when I need to because when you train alone, and I lived alone for so many years in this misery and you're able to get out by yourself, I can take myself to such a level of real, real passion and purpose in like the feeling I get is something I can't even explain by myself. I don't need anyone. That's why people come to me to motivate them. No one can motivate me. I have a resume full of fucking motivation that whenever I'm down like, oh, hang on motherfucker.
你清楚真相。你见识过地牢的黑暗和飞舞的恶魔。你明白那种处境。当时没人帮你背行囊、扛船只、搬木头去突破困境。
Oh, you know, you know the truth. You know that you you know the darkness of the fucking dungeons and the fucking demons that fly. You know and then from there, it's like, okay, you were there. You know this. There was no one there to pick up the rucksack, to pick up the boat, to pick up the log, to go in there.
只有你自己。凌晨三点、两点七十五、两点五十、两点二十...没有任何鼓励。只有你。
It was you. It was you. There was no pat on the fucking back at three hundred, at two seventy five, at 02:50, at 02:20. No. That was you.
所以我从黑暗中淬炼出的这些东西——人们总在寻找外界鼓励。在哪呢？我不需要。因为我在无人见证的修炼中创造了弗兰肯斯坦。当情况变糟时，大卫·戈金斯会说：反正你本来就没有依靠，混蛋。
So those things that come out of me, that extract from me in the darkness, people are looking for that pat on the back. Where is it? Oh, I don't need it. Because what I've done is in the fucking unseen work, I built Frankenstein. So whenever shit gets nasty, David Goggins goes, you had nobody anyway, motherfucker.
看到我现在怎么自我对话了吗？这就是我。这些话让我热血沸腾，让我疯狂。反正你本来就没有依靠，混蛋。
So see how I'm talking to myself right now? That's me. That shit fires me the fuck up. That shit makes me fucking nuts. You had nobody anyway, motherfucker.
看看你的周围。根本没有什么该死的团队。只有你自己。没有减肥计划，也没有父母叫醒你说你能行，你能变得更好，试图建立信念。你是在一无所有时自己建立了信念。
Look around you. There was no fucking team. It was you. There was no weight loss program or mom and dad waking you up saying you can do it, you can be better, trying to build belief. You built belief when you had nothing.
跌入谷底。那是你自己造成的。所以当我处境艰难时，真相就会浮现。而我的真相他妈的有力。它是真实的。
Rock bottom. You did that. So as times get hard for me, the truth comes out. And my truth is powerful as fuck. It's real.
它是可触摸的。我能感受到。当我谈论它时，它就从我的大脑中涌出。我正重温生命中每一个黑暗时刻才能站在这里。这就是人们不理解的地方。
It's tangible. I feel it. It comes out of my brain as I speak about it. I'm reliving every single dark moment of my life to be here. So that is what people don't get.
激励大卫·戈金斯的正是那些看不见的努力。每个人都渴望被拍拍后背鼓励。他们需要训练伙伴。他们需要责任教练。我不需要那些玩意儿，其实他们也不需要。
That is what motivates David Goggins is the unseen work. Everybody needs that pat on the back. They need that training partner. They they need that accountability coach. I don't need that shit, and neither do they.
但我们已经训练自己相信我们需要那些东西。
But it's what we've trained ourselves to believe that we need.
这就像是架子上有颗药丸。我用比喻来说。
It's almost like there's this pill on the shelf. I'm speaking in analogy.
没错。
Right.
我们接受它并为之兴奋。我们会说，是啊。但那里还有另一个药柜，就在我们体内。你是说真正的药柜哦，是
And we take it and we get jazzed up. We're like, Yeah. But there's this other medicine cabinet behind there, and it's in us. You're saying the real medicine cabinet Oh, is
当你不断克服困难时，我曾有太多障碍需要跨越。所以这实际上对我有益，但这种益处并非表面那样。你必须拥有勇气和耐心去一次次战胜。不知不觉间，老兄，你就拥有了整个药柜，但那该死的柜子里却没有药。没有训练前的补剂。
When you continue to overcome, and I had so many obstacles to overcome. So it's actually a benefit to me, but the benefit is not like a benefit like that. You have to have the courage and the patience to overcome and overcome. Before you know it, man, you have a whole medicine cabinet, but there's no medicine in the motherfucker. There's no pre workout.
我根本不碰那些玩意儿。我只需切换思维，把手指伸进去说，好，这个不错。这就是我要做的，伙计，我有一整本名片簿，就像'去你妈的，戈金斯'，然后'哦，但你赢了'。今天就选这个吧。我什么都不需要。
I don't take none of that shit. All I gotta do is flip my brain, put my finger in there and say, okay, that's a good one. It's all I gotta do, man, I got the Rolodex of just like, go fuck yourself, Goggins, and, oh, but you won. Let's do that one today. There's nothing I need.
这就是人们不理解大卫·戈金斯的地方。我没法在一分钟视频里教会这个。我们都有能力拥有自己的药柜。但除非你走进去把药放进去，否则它永远他妈是空的，伙计。你永远会需要训练前的补剂。
And this is the thing that people don't get about David Goggins. I can't teach it in a one minute video. We all have this ability to have our own medicine cabinet. But unless you go in there and put the medicine in there, it's always going to be fucking empty, man. You're always going to need the pre workout.
你会需要...我不喝咖啡。我不...我什么都不沾。我不需要...我能连续七十小时保持状态。没有咖啡因。我拥有所有这些了不起的东西，都是我自己在黑暗中独自克服得来的。
You're going need the I don't drink coffee. I don't do I don't do none of that. I don't need I can for seventy hours than I had before. No caffeine. I got all this wonderful shit that I overcame on my own, by myself, in the darkness.
老兄，天冷时我浑身发热。天热时我能随时给自己补充能量。所以当人们问'你为什么从不缺什么'时，我无法向你解释，真的没法解释。
That man, when it's cold, I'm hot. When it's hot, I can feed myself all the time. And that's why when people say, man, why aren't you missing anything? I can't explain it to you, man. Can't explain it to you.
你你你永远不会明白。这就是我不参加这些播客的原因，兄弟。我我...我爱你，伙计。所以你为我第一本书写了推荐，所以我今天会在这里。
You you you'll never understand. That's why I don't do all these podcasts, dude. I got I I love you, man. That's why you my first book, you did a blurb for me. That's why I'm here.
老兄，我欣赏你为人们所做的一切，但我无法解释这个。真的无法解释。因为人们根本不想这么做，他们就是不愿意。但不知为何，光是谈论这事就让我热血沸腾——太多人觉得我的生活简直糟透了，天啊。
I love what you're doing for people, man, but I can't explain this. I can't. I can't explain this because people don't wanna do this. They don't want to do this, man. But it's I don't know, I get I get jazzed up even talking about it, man, because so many people think my life is just so oh, God.
他的生活糟透了。听着，别学他。他就是个疯子。真的吗？
His life is horrible. Like, don't don't follow him. He's crazy. Really?
但我要说，确实有相当数量的人——这还算保守估计——是理解你的。今天我听到的让我深刻意识到，很多人对你存在部分或完全的误解。
But there are a good number of people, I would say, and that's an under that actually do. I think it I what I'm hearing today, and it's really sinking in, is that a great many people either partially or completely misunderstand you.
没错。
Yes.
我把自己归为部分误解的那类人。
Big I'll put myself in the partially category.
大
Big
话题。因为我原以为
talk. Because I thought it
是
was
关于质心前移，胡萝卜、胡萝卜、胡萝卜、胡萝卜。但其实是棍子。是那根棍子。而且它正被鬼魂缠身。你知道，我确实有自己生活中的例子，虽然今天的主题不是这个，关于极度恐惧后扭转局面的经历。
about just forward center of mass, carrot, carrot, carrot, carrot. But it's the stick. It's the stick. And it's being haunted. And, you know, I do have examples from my own life, which is not what today is about, about being really afraid and then turning things around.
对。
Right.
我最害怕的就是安于现状。
My biggest fear is getting comfortable.
没错。
Right.
我原本不是那么棍棒策略导向的人，但今天的对话改变了我的想法。我不会就此打住然后想，好吧，有25条神经回路可以解释戴维提到的10件事。我在思考的是，每个人都有大脑，都有心智。忘掉大脑吧，大脑只是物理结构，但它所显现、所创造的是心智。每个人都拥有这个。
I do not have as much of a stick oriented approach, but today's conversations changing the way I think. I'm not going to step away from this and think, okay, there are 25 neural circuits that can explain 10 of the things that David's talking about. And what I'm thinking about is the fact that everybody has a brain, they have a mind. Forget the brain, the brain is just the physical structure, but what that manifests, what that creates is the mind. And everybody has that.
所以我确实相信，每个人都有能力在某种程度上做到你所说的。我也要第一个承认，我认为你是个高度特异的个案，用科学术语说甚至是N=1的样本。对吧？一个为自己创造了这套方法，让自己始终处于质心前移状态，同时棍棒不断敲打后脑勺的人。
So I do believe that everyone has the capacity to do what you're talking about at some level. I also will be the first to confess that I think you're a highly unusual, let's just say, maybe even N of one, as we say in science, sample size of one. Right. Somebody who has created this process for themselves and keeps them in this themselves in this forward center of mass with the stick battering the back of their head all the
时间。没错。
time. Right.
非常不寻常。但你提到的这个内在药柜——建立真正的自信，不需要任何外在的东西。我认为，人们是渴望这个的。他们希望被了解。他们害怕，但又渴望以真实面目被认知，而你正在描述实现这一点的路径。
Highly unusual. But this internal medicine cabinet that you're talking about building up true confidence, not needing anything from the outside. I think, I like to think that people want that. They want to be known. They're afraid, but that they want to be known for who they really are and that you're describing the path to do this.
是的。我要说，我无比感激你今天以这种方式与我们交谈，虽然这些话题你之前谈过，但我们的切入角度有些不同，值得深思。
Right. And I will say, I'm immensely grateful that you're talking to us this way today about things that you've talked about before, but we're hitting it a little differently, like to think.
截然不同。
Very different.
因为你谈论的是一个过程。是动词。全是动词。
Because what you're talking about is a process. It's verbs. It's all verbs.
全是。行动。
All. Action.
这不是关于成功。实际上更多是关于将那种摩擦保持在
And it's not about success. It's more actually about keeping that friction dialed to
10. 对。
10. Right.
而且我不喝能量饮料，不吃补剂。人们经常误解我。他们以为，你知道，就像我特别提倡人们早晨晒太阳，遵循昼夜节律，改善睡眠等等。但人们总是直接想到补剂。是的。
And that I no energy drink, no supplement. People often misunderstand me. They think, you know, like I'm big on people getting sunlight in the mornings, they accept their circadian rhythm and get better sleep as they get etcetera. But then people always think they go straight to the supplements. Yeah.
我该吃什么？懂吗？然后当然，人们以为我只推崇补剂。补剂对我来说只是一部分，但和实际行动的注意事项相比，只占极小比例。
What should I take? You know? And then, of course, people think I'm all about supplements. Supplements are one piece for me, but it's like tiny fraction compared to the the doing, the dos and don'ts.
所以今天我不想谈那个。所以我很高兴我们在聊这个。这才是关键。这才是关键。大脑是世界上最强大的武器。
That's why I didn't wanna talk about that today. That's why I'm glad we're talking about this. This is it. This is it. Like, the brain is the most powerful weapon in the world.
很疯狂的是，一个不算聪明的孩子被迫只能向内探索。外部世界必须消失。在如此深入自我时，只有我和这个大脑，琢磨它如何运作。现在这么多人正在做同样的事。
And it's it's crazy how a kid that wasn't real smart, I was forced to go only internal. External had to go away. The external world had to go away. In living so deep inside myself, it was me in this brain and figuring out how this thing works. And it's so many people are doing exactly that.
这种那种补剂。我承认有帮助。但一旦你搞懂自己的大脑，几乎所向无敌。是的，你无法战胜死亡。无法怎样怎样。
The supplements to this to that. I agree it helps. But once you figure out your your brain, you become unstoppable to almost anything. Yeah, you can't beat death. You can't whatever, whatever.
你的大脑很神奇。一旦给予它正确的对话、精神养分、精神补剂、适时的内在对话，配合恰当的证据证明你过去的成就，并将这些精准输送到对应神经回路——老兄，你就是头猛兽。真正的猛兽。但重申，光阅读没用。不能只做理论家。
Your brain's amazing. Once you feed it the right conversation, the right mental nutrients, the right mental supplements, the right internal dialogue at the right time with the right hit, with the right proof of what you've done in the past, and you send that right to the right circuit, dude, you're a fucking beast. A beast. But once again, you just can't read about it. You can't sit back and be a theorist.
你必须成为一个实打实的实践者。正是在实践中，这一切才会成为确凿的证据。就像我说的，天啊，大卫·戈金斯简直让我震惊。这是什么情况？他并不疯狂。
You have to be a fucking practitioner. And in that practice is where that becomes proof positive. What I'm saying is like, God, like David Goggins, he's blowing my mind. What is this? He's not crazy.
很多人，很多听众正确理解了我的话后回来告诉我，他们完全赞同。他们说，事情发生了，真的发生了。我告诉他们，只要坚持做下去，这种状态会持续下去。但关键就在于此，伙计。
And so many people, a lot of people have listened to me the right way and they come back and they're like, I'm totally on board. I it it happened. It happened. I'm like, it'll keep going, man, if you keep doing it. But that is it, man.
没有阳光，没有荣耀，没有胡萝卜（指诱饵），没有胜利。但这一切又都融为一体。
There's no sun. There's no glory. There's no carrot. There's no victory. But there is all of it in one.
我实在很难向人们解释清楚，老兄。但最终你获得的是一种你从未有过的状态。你永远被找到了，再也不会迷失。但这并不意味着旅程会变得轻松。
I just can't explain it real well to people, man. But what you get the other end is something that you're not. You're always found. You're never lost anymore. Doesn't mean the journey's easy.
事情不会变得更容易，但你永远被找到了。
Doesn't get any easier, but you're always found.
我太喜欢这个观点了。我想稍微停留一下讨论这个，就像我们之前讨论'纠缠'和'坚持'那样。人们常常感到迷失，我一生中也多次有过这种感受。
I love that. I just wanna hover on that for a sec. The same way we hovered on haunted and the stick. I think people feel lost. I've certainly felt lost at times in my life, many times.
确实存在那种感觉。我不确定神经科学或心理学里是否有专门术语描述它。肯定会有人在评论区指出：'哦，这就是某某某说的概念'。但就像你说的，我们不是在探讨理论，我们要的是实际应用。
And yeah, there's that thing. I don't think there's a neuroscience or a psychology term for it. Someone will say, put it in the comments and say, Oh yeah, that's what so and so said. But like you said, we're not trying to be theoretical here. We're trying to be practical.
寻找自我、了解自我的过程就像——虽然危险但我感到安全，因为我曾身处险境又成功脱身。这些经历总让我回归到动词的思考。我仍找不到合适的语言描述，这是第一次我词穷了。这关乎一个过程，一种算法。
The business of finding yourself and knowing like But it's sort of like I'm safe because I'm in danger, and I've been in danger before and I got myself out. It always seems to come back to verbs. Again, I don't have a language for this. You know, for once, I'm lost for words. There's like a it's about a process, the algorithm.
我在此试图确认自己的理解是否正确。你公开做自己之所以令人不适，部分原因是人们只关注跑步或脏话这些表象。顺便说，脏话无妨。我曾在实验室工作，三位导师都满口脏话，但铁律是：不可对人恶语相向。
And the reason here, I'm just kind of trying to make sure I'm understanding things correctly. One of the reasons why it must be uncomfortable for you to be who you are publicly is because people want us focus on the running or the swearing. And by the way, the swearing is welcome. I'll tell you, I came up through laboratories where all three people I worked for swore a lot. But there was one rule, I couldn't swear at people.
我的研究生导师是位才华横溢的女性，可惜英年早逝——他们都早逝了，而我是共同点，这个阴影伴随我多年。总之她说：若对人说脏话，就请离开。
So my graduate advisor, brilliant woman, unfortunately, she died early. They all died early. I'm the common denominator. I had that internalized for a long time. Anyway, she said, But if you swear at people, you're out.
没错。
Right.
但你可以尽情说脏话，这就是我的原则。只要不针对个人，随便怎么说。若对人恶语相向，就得准备干架。
But you can swear as much as you want. So that's the rule I have. It's like you can swear as much as you want, just don't swear at people. If you swear at people, better be ready to fight.
明白。
Right.
没错。我肯定不会和你动手，所以你骂我也能逍遥法外。但事实是，人们总把焦点放在补剂和冰浴上——我知道有人会说'不就这些玩意儿吗'，这肯定让你沮丧。听着，我确实喜欢补剂。
Right. I'm definitely not gonna fight you. So you can swear at me, get away with it. But the fact of the matter is that it must be frustrating that people because I know people go, oh, it's all about supplements and ice baths. Listen, I like supplements.
我热爱补剂和冰浴，但那并非全貌。这只是引力的一部分。是那些咒骂，是奔跑，是他那双伤痕累累的脚。
I love supplements and ice baths, but that's not the full picture. It's just a gravitational pull. It's the swearing. It's the running. It's his feet that are all messed up.
关键在于他得到了特里同。
It's the fact that he got a Triton.
是啊。
Yeah.
他就是那个海豹般的家伙。对，我们也讨论过这个对吧？人们被某种引力吸引，却错过了冰山一角——这正是我现在的领悟。多亏你表达的方式，让我今天意识到更大的容器全在这里。就像你说的，这要怎么写成书呢？
He's this seal guy. Yeah. We talked about that too, right? You know, and there's a gravitational pull for people and they're missing like the that's like the tip of the iceberg is what I'm realizing. I'm realizing that today, thanks to the way you're phrasing things, because the bigger vessel is all in here and as you said, how do you put that in a book?
根本不可能。因为这是高度个人化的。你用你的方式践行。你在说每个人都得找到适合自己的方式。
It's impossible. Because it's highly individual. You do it your way. And you're saying everyone needs to go figure out how to do it their way for them.
被误解这件事令人极度沮丧，远超我的想象。我甚至无法形容当那些咒骂和一切源于真实时的挫败感。没有这些我无法解释自己的行为，激情就这样从我体内迸发。
And the thing about being misunderstood is very frustrating. More than I can even imagine. I I I can't even express how frustrating it is when the cussing and everything comes from a place of of of real. I can't explain what I do without it. The passion comes out of me.
这几乎像说方言。当你付出那么多努力时，人们却说'哦，不就是个篮球运动员、橄榄球运动员之类的'。不，根本不是。每分每毫都是心血。
It's almost like speaking in tongues. Because when you put that much work and people go, Oh, there's been this basketball player, this football player, this. Dude, no. No. Everything everything is work.
一切。人们却不相信。所以当我说话时，那些混蛋、那些狗屎，正是成就我的东西。愤怒、激情、令人震惊的表现，这些就是我的驱动力，因为本质上我并非如此。
Everything. And people don't don't believe it. So when I speak, the motherfucker and the and the fuck and and and the shit and it's is what it took for me. What it takes for me. The anger, the passion, the the jaw dropping, just it takes that because I'm not that.
我是这样看待的，伙计。是什么塑造了这个人？想象你置身于能承受的最冰冷的水中。我总会联想到地狱周训练。我痛恨水。
This is I look at it, man. What built this guy? Let's imagine being in the coldest water you can possibly take. I always go back to Hell Week with this. I hated the water.
深恶痛绝。你们挽着手臂坐在水里，不断被命令进出水面。当那些仅凭一分钟视频评判你的人出现时，你脑海里会浮现这样的对话——而当你24岁终于明白时，你会意识到：这他妈的糟透了，每一天都将糟透了。
Hated it. You're sitting there locked arms, and you're in the water all the time. And they're bringing you in and out of the water, in and out of the water. When you have this dialogue in your head, and these people are judging me off of a freaking one minute video, And you're constantly your whole life when you figure it out 24, I gotta I just gotta this fucking gotta this is just gonna suck. Every day is gonna suck.
但为了变得更强必须忍受。就像我现在这样，海水漫过头顶，二月的太平洋冷得刺骨。经历过三次地狱周的人才知道，当真实的自我在喊'快滚出去'时，你仍要不断胜利、胜利、再胜利。
And live like that to be better. And I put this right, I'm in the water, the water is going over my head, the Pacific Ocean, you know, it's freezing. February, cold as shit. Been through three hell weeks. For you to constantly win, win, win, when this voice over here, the real you, is saying, get the fuck out of here.
走吧，你什么都不是，从来都是个无名小卒。这是事实。人们听不进这话。
Go. You're nobody. You've always been nobody. And it's true. People don't hear that.
这才是24岁大卫·戈金斯真实的内心独白，绝非虚构。而你必须在冰水中创造出另一个声音对抗它——尽管两个声音都他妈不想待在这鬼地方。
That's a true voice. That's the real reality of David Goggins at 24 years old. It's not a false reality. And then you had to create another voice over here that is saying you're better than that other voice. And you're in the freezing cold water that both voices don't wanna fucking be in.
但你赢了。从冰水训练到学习，从跑步到减肥，从饮食到为人处世。生命中的每一天，你都在打赢这些战役。而普通人只有一个声音，从未创造出第二个对抗的声音。
But you win. And it goes from the water to the studying, to the running, to losing weight, to how you eat, to how you function as a man. Every day of your life, you're winning these battles. And then I have normal people who only have one voice. Never created the second voice.
胜出的声音是第二个声音。他们只有一种声音。而那就是——我就是个废物。他们只听得进这个。然后他们就来评判像我这样努力想变得更好的人。
The winning voice is the second voice. They have a one voice. And that's just I'm a piece of shit. And that's all they hear. And then they judge people like me who are out here trying to be better.
这是我永远无法真正...这让我很沮丧，因为我了解大多数人。我知道他们脑子里在想什么，因为我研究心智的时间比你还要久——因为我是实践者。要从废物状态爬出来，不是简单脱身就行。你得花几十年研究自己的心智和人类心智，观察它在好环境、坏环境、压力环境、忍耐环境中的运作方式。你研究这一切，是因为必须整合所有知识来塑造成功的心智。
It's something that I can never really it's a frustrating thing for me because I know I know the majority of people. I know what goes on in brain because I studied the mind more than almost more than you because I wasn't I'm a practitioner. So for you to be a piece of shit and come out of that, you don't just come out of it. You spend decades studying your mind in the human mind on how it functions in good environments, bad environments, stressful environments, patient environment. You studied all because you had to put all this together to create the mind to become successful.
所以就像...上帝赐予我这个大脑，我必须塑造一种心智。在这个过程中，我弄清了世上每个废物人类的心理——因为那就是我曾经的参照系。我知道你为什么刷Instagram。我知道你...因为你只是有时间。
So I had to like, God bless me with this brain. I had to create a mind. And so in doing so, I figured out every piece of shit human being in the world because that's what I was going off of for myself. So I know why you go on Instagram. I know why you because you just have the time.
你有时间是因为不愿把时间花在自我提升上。所以我理解为什么被误解。那些闲得发慌的人误解我，因为他们正处在我的过去时态——一个懒惰的低等废物。这就是那些喷子、攻击者的残酷现实。他们的人生没有更有意义的事可做。
You have the time because you don't want to put that time into bettering oneself. So I know why I misunderstood. I misunderstood by people who have plenty of time on their hands to misunderstand me because they are exactly where I once was, which is a low life lazy piece of shit. It's the harsh reality of people who troll you, who go after you. They have nothing better to do with their lives.
这不是什么课后特别节目。这是真相，因为我曾是他们的一员。我知道这些行为的根源。这就是现在让我沮丧的原因——我不是因为被喷而沮丧，是气你们缺乏勇气去尝试超越现状。
It's not some after school special. It's the truth by once was that way. I know where it all comes from. That's why it's frustrating me now because I'm not so frustrated at the fact that I'm being trolled. I'm frustrated by the fact that you don't have the courage the courage to try to be somebody better than what you're not.
这才是最令人沮丧的部分。
And that's the frustrating part.
有意思，因为早些时候我们还在讨论人际关系。
It's interesting because earlier, we were talking about relationships.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你非常坦率地说过，我真的很感谢你分享这一点，你确保身边亲近的人、你的家人拥有他们所需的一切。对吧。而且他们也明白你会拿走你需要的东西来继续打造自己。
And you said in a very candid way, and I really appreciate you sharing that, that you make sure that people close to you, your family has everything they need. Right. And that they also understand that you're going to take what you need to continue to build you.
对。
Right.
就这样。
Period.
就这样。
Period.
在某种程度上，似乎你也把公众纳入了那个家庭范畴。
In some ways, it seems you've also included the general public in that family.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你是说，听着，我会给你所需的一切。我会尽可能多地付出自己，但我会恰好在界限前停下。
You're saying, listen, I'm gonna give you what you need. I'm gonna give you as much of myself as I can, except I'm gonna stop right at the line
没错。
That's right.
如果我越过了那条线，就会阻碍我继续完善自我。而且，这段关系之所以存在，正是因为我没越过那条线。
That if I were to cross it, is gonna prevent me from continuing to build myself. And by the way, this relationship only exists because I don't cross that line.
正是如此。
That's right.
尽管外界有很多批评者试图干扰——我是说，他们的所作所为在我看来相当无力。就像玩具枪的火花，明白吗？是的，仅此而已。
And I think as much as there are detractors out there, people that try, right? I mean, it's pretty whatever they're doing is pretty feeble in my mind. I mean, it's like cap gun fire, you know? Yes. If that.
非常无力。
Very feeble.
你看，我们这么多人，无论男女老少，听到你的信息时都能感受到共鸣。就像，是啊，听起来可能有点疯狂。天哪，他难道从不放松吗？他的睡眠怎么办？瞧瞧他的脚。
You know, so many of us, men and women, old and young, hear something and feel something in your message. Like, yeah, like it seems kind of crazy. Gosh, like, doesn't he ever just relax? You know, what about his sleep? You know, look at his feet.
他会把自己弄伤的。我听说，听着，我就直说了。我有朋友在团队里，他们就说，是啊，等他跑不动了怎么办？而我知道答案就是继续跑。
He's gonna injure himself. I've heard, Listen, I'll be very direct. I got friends who were in the teams who just go, Yeah, what's he gonna do when he can't run? And I know the answer is to keep running.
没错。
That's right.
对吧？但人们——即便是高成就者——也更倾向于这样想。
Right? But it's more comfortable for people, even high achievers.
尤其是高成就者。
Especially high achievers.
认为如果失去某样东西，一切就完了。但显然你不是这样的。我百分百确信。因为我们现在讨论的就是这个。
To believe that if you took one thing away, that it would all go away. It's absolutely clear that's not the case with you. I'm 100% convinced. I just know that because what we're talking about is this.
知道我多少次不能跑步吗？两次心脏手术，多次膝盖手术。每次膝盖手术后医生都说你还能跑。我接受这个事实。老兄，这里（指头部）可不需要跑步。
Do know how many times I haven't been able to run? Two heart surgeries, multiple knee surgeries. And after every knee surgery, they say you're gonna run again. And I'm fine with that. There's no running up here, bro.
根本不需要。这才是关键所在。他们迷失的正是这点。要是跑不了怎么办？谁在乎？
None. This was what it was all about. That's what they lost. What if you can't run? Give a fuck?
从来不是为了跑步。你以为我为什么跑步？这是最糟糕的事。我比什么都讨厌跑步。
It was never about running. Why do you think I run? It's the worst thing. I hate doing it more than anything.
所以需要意志力。你的前中扣带皮层
Hence the willpower. Your anterior mid cingulate cortex
因此需要意志力。如果你热爱跑步它就会退化。想想看。每天醒来，我不只是跑一英里两英里。这是我最痛恨的事，而我却做得像热爱它一样。
would Hence the willpower. Would start to regress if you loved running. Think about it. Every day I wake up, I don't just run a mile, two miles. It's the one thing I hate the most to do, and I do it like I love it.
250、60、70、300英里一次性跑完。不睡觉。每跑一步，当我开始思考时。我他妈站在起跑线上咒骂詹妮弗。我他妈为什么要来这里？
250, sixty, seventy, three hundred mile runs at one time. No sleep. In every step, when I get to the think about this. I get to the fucking start line, cussing at Jennifer. Why the fuck am I here?
我恨透了这破事。连续跑了70多个小时后，所有困扰我的问题都得到了解答。每个问题都有了答案。我触及了成功的天花板。人们总问，什么叫触及成功天花板？
I hate this shit. After seventy some hours of running, every fucking question I ever had is answered. Every question I had is answered. I capped success. I don't people go, what do mean you cap success?
为了成为现在的我，每年有三四个月甚至五个月时间，我都在从事烟雾跳伞工作。
For me to be who I am so when I go smoke jump, I smoke jump three to four months out the year, sometimes five.
能否为不了解的观众简单描述下烟雾跳伞具体是做什么的？
Could you just for those that aren't educated about, just like give us a brief description of what smoke jumping entails?
基本上你是跳入火场附近，不是直接跳进火里，而是跳向人们无法到达的火灾区域
So basically you you jump into fires, not into them, but you jump by fires that people can't
通过飞机和直升机空降
get to. So out of planes and helicopters.
对，从飞机上跳伞降落。全都是跳伞行动。你从飞机上跳伞然后投入灭火战斗。有时候是你和另外四个队友，或者八个队友，有男有女，一起扑灭这场大火。所以我每年夏天都要损失几百万美元来做这件事
Right, out of planes and parachute. It's all parachuting. So you parachute out of airplanes and then you fight the fire. You and sometimes four other guys, or maybe eight other guys, guys and gals, and you're putting this fire out. So I lose millions of dollars every summer to do this.
这让人们难以置信。你他妈到底为什么要干这个？
It blows people's minds. Why the hell are you doing this?
而且你还在吸入煤烟
And you're breathing soot.
吸着煤烟，膝盖受伤，落地时疼痛难忍，诸如此类。跟普通人解释这些他们永远无法理解，所以我干脆不解释。但这就是为什么我称Cap为成功——我指的是财务成功。为了保持这种意志力，一旦我沦为四处演讲的猴子，全年接演讲邀约、办训练营、搞讲座、推保健品线、写更多烂书之类的
Breathing soot, knees are jacked up, hitting the ground, hurting, whatever. Talking to normal people, they'll never get it, so I don't even explain it to them. But this is why I call Cap success. I'm talking financial success. For me to continue having that willpower, the second I just become a speaking monkey and travel around and speaking gigs twelve months out of the year, put camps on, do this, put on lectures, get supplement lines and do this and write more books and shit.
我就彻底毁掉了毕生追求的东西。虽然直到某天才明白，但总有声音告诉我：这种意志力是极易消逝的技能——我拥有的这种意志力，这辈子从未在任何人身上见过。它是驱使我不断向前的幽灵般的力量，我知道这就是我的核心竞争力。如果你拥有这个，那么我赚的每一分钱都值得。因为终于能直视别人的眼睛进行真诚对话，不用像这样躲闪——要么因为我在撒谎，要么因为我是个混蛋，或者像很多人那样假装在听
I've ruined the exact thing I worked on my entire life. And while I didn't know it until the day, but something always told me, this is a very, very, very perishable skill, this willpower that you have, because I do have a willpower that I have never seen in anybody in my life. It is a haunting force that just keeps me going. And I know that that is my strength. If you have that, so that's worth every dime I've ever made in my life is the fact I can look a man in the eye finally and have a real conversation without going like this because I'm lying or I'm a piece of shit or I know you know how a person in so many people do this shit.
他们是在向你诉说他们想成为什么样的人。他们在对你撒谎。然后他们转身离去。这种事我干过太多次了。转身离开时心里想着，天啊，老兄。
They're talking to you on who they want to be. They're lying to you. And they walk away. I've done it so many times. Walk away like, God, man.
为什么我就不能对他说实话？我他妈到底为什么不能说实话？不。现在能直视你的眼睛，看着每个我遇见的男人，这种感觉真好。因为女人不会懂这个。
Why can't I just tell him the truth? Why the hell can I just tell him the truth? No. Good it feels for me now to look at you in your eye and every man a man I see. Because women won't get this.
女人永远不会懂。男人之间的对话。那种男人的事。当你直视另一个男人的眼睛，知道你他妈说的每句话都是真实的，都来自你真实奋斗过的地方，是你挣来的，这是世界上最棒的感觉。
Women will not get this. Man to man. That man shit. When you look another man in the eye and you know that everything you're fucking saying is real, and it comes from a real working place, something that you earned, it's the best feeling in the world.
没错。你可以说那确实发生过。是的。就像，我确信我说的都是真实发生过的。
Right. You can say that actually happened. Yes. Like, I know with certainty what I'm saying actually happened.
真实发生过。我是谁，我说我是谁，我就是谁。不再有谎言。不再回避真相。不再有狗屁废话。
Actually happened. Who I am and who I say I am, I am. No more lies. No more skirting the truth. No more bullshit.
这值得我此生赚的每一分钱。我向上帝发誓。我此生赚的每一分钱，塑造了现在的我，所以我保持成功，因为我知道如果一年中有十二个月，我没有每天都全力以赴，我就会完蛋。但每年总有几个月，我会回到起点，这意味着我他妈又成了大卫·戈金斯。没有戈金斯。
And that is worth every dime I've ever made in my life. And I swear to God on that. Every dime I've ever made in my life, building who I built, so I kept success because I know that if I ever go twelve months out of the year and don't put several every day, I'm going at it. But several months out of the year, I go right back to ground zero, which means I'm just fucking David Goggins. No Goggins.
没有那些扛船运木头的狗屁事。就是拿起那把该死的普拉斯基斧开始挖。嘿。扛起那台抽水泵，走上一英里，把它扔进该死的水里。蚊子还在叮咬。
No carryboats, fucking logs bullshit. It's just pick up that fucking Pulaski and dig. Hey. Get that fucking pump, walk down a mile, put it in the fucking water. Mosquito's beating.
你不过是戴维·戈金斯。你什么都不是。因为那正是我成长的地方。那是我意志力的源泉，也是它始终所在之处。这就是我现在对你说话时的状态。
You're just David Goggins. You're nobody. Because that's where my growth is. That's where my willpower comes from, and that's where it stays. That's when I talk to you now.
我能这样说话吗兄弟？人们不会用这种激情交谈，因为他们没有。他们只是在复述三十年前的老黄历。而我在复述一小时前的事。
And and that can I talk like this, dude? People don't talk with this kind of passion because it ain't there. It ain't there. They're regurgitating some shit from thirty fucking years ago. I'm regurgitating shit from an hour ago.
一小时前。得了吧伙计，真实点。我没法上这些播客节目。我无法不真实地与任何人交谈。
Hour ago. Come on, man. It's just be real. And I can't be on these podcasts. I can't talk to anybody without being real.
我会消失。干脆消失算了，因为我无法给予你们我想给予的东西。
I'll go away. I'll just go away because I I I can't give you what I wanna give you.
你提到'易逝的技能'。我想强调这个词组，因为技能意味着行为。我们刚才讨论的那种深刻、真实的根本自信，源于直视某人双眼，告诉他们你确信无疑的事实。你谈论的是行动，而非感知。
You said perishable skill. I think that's another word, set of words I want to highlight because skill implies behavior. And when we were just talking a second ago about the deep, true bedrock sense of confidence that comes from looking someone in the eye and telling somebody something that you absolutely know it's true because it happened. You're talking about actions. You're not talking about perceptions.
你不是在谈论你相信发生的事，而是确知它发生了。行动具有某种非常具体的特质。有趣的是我们讨论心智，但行动才是心智的体现。那些只停留在脑海里的东西，人们至死都带着它们，不会产生任何影响。
You're not talking about what you believe happened, you know it happened. There's something really concrete about actions. I mean, that's what's so interesting is we're talking about the mind, but actions are the manifestation of the mind. And the stuff that just stays in here, people die with that. It doesn't go anywhere.
很久以前有人说过——我忘了具体语境，是位神经科学家——他说大多数情绪就只是情绪，它们就在那里。你不需要对它们做什么。但有些情绪，你会想要采取行动。
Long ago, somebody said, you know, I forget what the context was. It was a neuroscientist. He said, you know, most emotions like they're just emotions, they're just in there. Like you don't have to do anything with them. And I think certain emotions you want to do something with.
对。但我
Right. But I
认为人们忘记了这一点。他们感到痛苦，仿佛要融化在自己的泪水中。但从未有人因情绪而死去。
think people forget this. They feel miserable. Like they're gonna dissolve into puddle of their own tears. No one ever died from an emotion.
对。
Right.
但人们觉得情绪如潮水般淹没我们，仿佛要把我们拖入海底溺亡。这很有趣，因为我认为——听着，你有引力场，人们能感知你的能量。我认为，你要么被完全误解，要么被部分理解。地球上真正懂你的人只有一个。我想有个叫珍妮弗的女人，可能是最接近理解你的人，而我们其他人都在努力揣摩。
But they feel like they overwhelm us as if it's a tidal wave, it's gonna pull us under and drown us. It's so interesting to me because I think what people, listen, you have a gravitational pull, people can feel the energy. I think, you're either completely badly or partially understood. There's only one guy on the planet that truly understands you. I think there's one woman, Jennifer, who probably understands you as much as anyone's going to, and then the rest of us are kind of grasping trying to figure it out.
对。
Right.
但你说要向内求索。
But you're saying go inward.
嗯。所以
Mhmm. So
首先向内探索。嗯。然后是行动。向内与行动。现在我想花点时间谈谈向内探索这部分，因为历史上有几个代表人物，比如集中营里的那些人。纳尔逊·曼德拉。
first go inward Mhmm. And then it's actions. Inward and actions. Now the inward piece is something I'd like to just spend a little bit of time on, because there's a couple characters from history, people that were in concentration camps. Nelson Mandela.
我是说，我不确定他在监狱里有Instagram。我很确定他没有。而且我觉得当时也没人指导他说，嘿，总有一天你会出去的。事实上，你将领导整个国家。我很确定事情不是这样发展的。
I mean, I'm not sure he had Instagram in there. I'm pretty sure he didn't. And I don't think there was anyone coaching him on like, Hey, you're going to get out someday. And actually, you're going to lead an entire country. I'm pretty sure that's not how it worked.
他必须在这里找到力量。他必须在自己的思想中找到它。对吧。还有其他例子，但这个很重要。所以向内探索的过程，为你做到这一点——在这里我会征求建议，因为我觉得人们想要，我们中有些人想要培养这种能力。
He had to find it here. He had to find it between his ears. Right. And there are other examples, but that's an important one. So the process of going inward, does it for you and here I will ask for suggestions because I think people want there are those of us who want to build this skill.
没错。
Right.
把自己隔绝起来，可能一天大部分时间关掉手机。关掉短信，那些请求，这个那个。任何认识你的人都知道我们偶尔发几条短信，但大部分信息都经过过滤。她做得很好。她了解你，知道如何保护你的时间。
Wall yourself off, phone off for big portions of the day perhaps. Texting off, the requests, the this, that. Anyone that knows you knows that we've communicated a few texts, but most of it comes through a filter. She's great. She knows you, you know, and she knows how to protect your time.
但这会伤害别人的感情。人们会因此生气。
And that hurts people's feelings. People get mad about that.
嘿。愿上帝保佑。愿上帝保佑你，珍妮弗。懂吗？切断与外界的联系。
Hey. God bless. God bless you, Jennifer. You know? Cutting oneself off.
当你身处其中时，你会说只有你自己，而那些浮现的声音并不令人愉快。然后在某个时刻，它转化为行动。好的。那么，选择行动的过程是怎样的？这部分我觉得需要搭建一座桥梁，如果你可以的话，如果你愿意的话。
When you're in there, you say it's just you, and the voices that come up are not pleasant. And then at some point it converts to action. Okay. How much, what is the process of picking the action? That's the piece that I feel like there's like a bridge to build here, if you can, if you would.
所以这个行动就像是，像是，像是，接下来是什么？
So the action being like, like, like, what's next?
是的。那么比如，当你晚上去睡觉时，当这种情况发生时，你知道第二天要做什么吗？是提前计划好的吗？
Yeah. So what like, when you go go to sleep at night, when that happens, you know what you're gonna do the next day? It's pre planned?
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
是的。总是同样的事情。
Yes. It's it's always the same thing.
你不是临时决定的吗？
You're not building it on the fly?
不，没有即兴创作。我内心空空如也。对我来说，内在的运作方式就是如实呈现——我是个艺术家。
No. Nothing's on the fly. Nothing in me. So how it works internally for me is I'm I I put it exactly how it is. I'm an artist.
每天我都在创作，就像在画蒙娜丽莎。每天如此，但每幅都不同。醒来后重复相同的事，却要走不同的路径。
And every day, I'm putting I'm I'm painting Mona Lisa. Every day. And but it's a different one. It's not the same painting. So every day I wake up, you know, do the same thing.
优秀画家不止作画，更需要创造。当手机等干扰环绕时无法创造，必须隔绝外界。我一年只做两期播客。
It takes a different way to get there. So every day in my mind, I'm going through my mind, I'm just like and a good painter will not just paint. He needs to create. And you can't create with phones and everything going around you, so you gotta block yourself off. You only do two podcasts in a year.
你隔绝自己，在内心描绘这幅画。调配各种颜料，唯有在大脑投入足够时间，才能找到正确的画作。我每天都在脑海中创作这幅杰作。
You block yourself off and you're and you're painting this thing inside. And you're going through all these different colors of paint and everything else. And you can only figure out the right painting if you spend the correct amount of time in your brain. So every single day, I'm literally going through my mind and I'm painting. I'm creating this this masterpiece.
这杰作永远是我自己。要做到这点，必须杜绝干扰。就像画家构思新作时无法分心，他也不可能听进你的话——你必须倾听身心真正的需求。
And the masterpiece is always myself. And but to do that, you cannot have any distractions. Because if you're talking to an artist, and he's trying to think about the next painting, he can't. So it's impossible to listen to you. And listen to what your mind and body are telling you we must do.
人们做得远远不够。他们毫无激情，缺乏动力与决心，只因从未与自己独处。你的心智会指引方向。
People don't do enough of. They don't do any of it. You're they don't have passion. They lack passion, drive, determination, because you haven't spent time with yourself. Your mind will tell you what is next.
但你不愿花时间思考。总想着'让我谷歌一下'——在这拥有数十亿人口的世界里，你找不到答案。我们本该是独立个体，却总陷入群体思维。
But you haven't spent the time to go. Alright, let me just figure this out. You're looking for let me Google this and let me Google that and let me you're not going to find it there because there's billions of people in this world. And they're all supposed to be individuals. But we have a pack mentality.
这就是为什么你他妈如此迷茫。为什么我如此独特？我他妈只是在做我本该成为的样子。我谁都没跟风。而当我随大流时，就和其他人毫无区别。
That's why you're so fucking lost. Why am I so unique? I'm being exactly what the fuck I was supposed to be. I didn't follow shit. And when I did follow shit, was like everybody else.
就在我说'等等老兄，你不喜欢这样，你不喜欢这样，你不喜欢这样'的那一刻——你以为自己是谁？大卫·戈金斯吗？
The second I said, okay, man, hang on, dude. You don't like this. You don't like this. You don't like this. Who are you, David Goggins?
你究竟该成为谁？神奇的是，所有这些事突然...我甚至连待办清单都没看完就'砰'地砸过来。就像'操，好吧，哇哦'。你为什么不坐下来对自己说'听着'——
Who are you supposed to be? Miraculously, all these things just I couldn't even the list of shit I had to do just wham. It's like, fuck, okay. Wow. Why don't you sit down with yourself and say, okay.
我不想成为迈克尔·乔丹或吉姆·布朗那样。他俩生日都和我同天。所以我查了他们生日，想着或许能成为其中一位...但我做不到。
I don't wanna be like Michael Jordan or Jim Brown. They both were on my birthday. So I I looked at their birthdays. I my maybe it can be one these. I can't.
我要成为他妈的大卫·戈金斯。而这就是他的模样。一切突然涌现，如洪水般袭来。所以我生命中的每一天，都会冒出必须完成的新挑战。
I'm gonna be David fucking Goggins. And that looks like this. It just came. Everything flooded. So every single day of my life, there's a different thing that comes up that I have to do.
但没人知道该怎么做，因为其他人都在遵循步骤，就像共和党和民主党那样。我不搞政治
But no one knows what to do because everybody else is following steps like the Republican and Democratic parties. I'm not political
我也完全不搞政治，正是因为这个原因。
Neither am I. At all for this reason.
共和党人会投共和党，民主党人会投民主党。你他妈连人都算不上，兄弟。怎么可能你们这群混蛋全都认同同样的狗屁事。反正我绝不认同。
Republicans are gonna vote Republican. Democrats are gonna vote Democrat. You're not even a human fucking being, bro. No way all you fuckers agree with all the same fucking shit. And I know I don't.
所以一旦认清自我，答案自会浮现。每晚都在绘制不同的画作，那是我为自己创作的美丽画卷。对多数蠢货而言，它们或许看起来千篇一律。
So once you figure out yourself and who you are, all the answers come. So every night, a different painting is being painted. And it's a beautiful painting for myself. Like, that's that's it. It may look the same to most motherfuckers.
但最终结果天差地别。看看我49年来的成就——比多数人一辈子都丰富，就因为他们是赛车手？他们不过开了辆破车而已。很棒是吧？
But the end result is very fucking different. That's why my launch I if you look at what I've done in forty nine years, it's more than most people ever do in their life because they were a race car driver. And that's what they did. They drove a fucking car. It's great.
我干过各种行当，因为那正是心灵画卷指引的方向。当潜意识告诉赛车手该开车时，他们清楚该怎么做。可退役后就迷失了——我实在无法理解这种状态。
I was all kind of shit because that's exactly what the painting was saying to do. What the mind was saying to do. When it's saying to drive a car to them, that race car driver know what the fuck to do. He retires from being a race car driver and they're lost. How are you still I don't get it.
老兄，你永远填不满人生清单，因为你从未真正发现它。你的视野被垃圾塞满，从未停下数年光阴对自己说：好了，现在只剩你我。放手吧。然后砰的一声——答案就在眼前。
Dude, you're never gonna fill your list, but you never found your list because it never was presented in front of you because your head was cluttered with shit. Because you never just stopped for lots of minutes, lots of years, and just said, alright, it's me and you. Let it go. And it just bam. It's right there.
答案就在眼前。
It's right there.
如我之前所说，我不是心理学家，但在此我愿提出一个假设。
I'm not a psychologist, as I mentioned before, but I'm gonna venture a hypothesis here.
我
I
认为你已经掌握了内心对话的过程。但当我提到对话时，大多数人会想到内心的声音、喋喋不休的自言自语。但那只是对话的一半。对话是双向的。所以我完全同意，因为根据经验，当我们向内探索时，如果足够诚实，常会听到这样的声音：我不想考虑那个，或那个。
think that you've mastered the process of internal dialogue. But when I say dialogue, I think most people think, oh, the inner voice, the chatter. But that's just one half of a dialogue. A dialogue is a two way street. So I completely agree because I know from experience that when we go inward, oftentimes we hear things if we're really honest with ourselves, it's like, I don't want to think about that or that.
不。然后我们开始向外寻求，或试图转移注意力、分散心思。有无数现成的借口和看似合理的理由支持我们这样做。但对话是双向的。就在你刚才讲述时，我突然意识到这一点。
No. And then we start looking outward or we start trying to shift our attention or distract. And there are a million reasons that are handed to us excuses and seemingly good justifications to be able to do that. But dialogue is a two way street. And it hit me while you were just saying what you were saying.
我听得非常专注，突然明白大卫·戈金斯所说的那个涌现的声音——包括那些没人愿意从自己内心深处听到的可怕内容。但他也掌握了对话的精髓，知道如何用对立的声音回应。
I was paying very close attention, and I realized David Goggins is talking about the voice that comes up, including the terrible stuff that no one wants to hear about themselves from themselves. But then he's also got the dialogue down where he knows the counter voice.
没错。
That's right.
他会说：是的，你说得对。所以我打算这样做。或者：不，记住这一点。你正在进行的是双向对话，而非单向的内心独白。
He goes, yeah, you're right. And so I'm gonna do this. Or maybe, no, remember this. You're in a dialogue, a two way dialogue in there. Not a one way chatter dialogue.
著名心理学家写过关于内心絮语的著作，试图改变你的内在叙事。其实真正的内在叙事——这才是内省的意义所在——从来不是单一声音。重申一次，这只是个假设。我并非全知全能，天知道我有多少不懂的事。
There are books written by famous psychologists about chatter, trying to shift your internal narrative. You're like, bring the internal the internal narrative, that's what going inward is about, but it's not one voice. Again, there's a hypothesis. I'm not claiming to be all knowing. Lord knows I'm not all knowing.
明白了吗？但你已经掌握了这种对话方式，如果有三种声音——强、中、弱——存在于你内心，你会说，让我们都坐到谈判桌前。于是你内心就形成了一个由不同声音组成的交响乐，这些声音都是你认知中的自我。你知道如何进行这些对话，并不惧怕参与其中。
Okay? But you've mastered the dialogue, if there are three voices, strong, medium, and weak in there, you're like, let's all come to the table. So you've got a symphony of voices in there that are all you that you know to be you. And you know how to have those conversations. You're not afraid to be in those conversations.
然后你清楚这个内部委员会的决定结果，并将其付诸现实行动。而外界只能看到最终的行动表现。
And then you know what the outcome of that committee decision is, and you put it into real world action. And the world only sees the action.
就是这样。
That's it.
只有你才能了解自己的内心对话，也只有我才能知晓我的内心独白。而要所谓的'了解'它，唯一的方法就是投入大量时间在其中。
And only you can know your internal dialogue. And only I can know my internal dialogue. And the only way to quote unquote know it is to spend a hell of a lot of time there.
没错。
That's right.
好吧。用一生的时间。
Okay. A lifetime.
懂了。一生的时间。想想看，就像我现在坐在你面前——你不会随便叫300个生态实验室的人来坐在这儿。当然也可能叫。
Got it. A lifetime. Like, think about it. For me to be sitting here in front of you, you're not gonna call 300 eco lab guy to come sit here. You might.
我不知道。也许吧。很可能不会。很可能不会。想想这个。
I don't know. Maybe. Probably not. Probably not. Think about this.
我们教给人们的是一种对自己的善意。你觉得如果我教会自己善良并且我认同它。天啊，太多人太多人断章取义地理解我的话。太荒谬了。你他妈爱怎么理解就怎么理解。
What we teach people is kind kindness to yourself. Do you think if I taught myself kindness and I agree with it. God, so many people so many people take me out of context. It's ridiculous. Take it however the fuck you wanna take it.
当我体重三百磅时，我们以为如果我对自己说善意的话，那场对话会拯救我。我来告诉你它把我带到了哪里。直接回到7-11便利店，再来一盒迷你巧克力甜甜圈和一杯巧克力奶昔。那就是那个声音。那就是我们大多数人内心那个你正在谈论的声音。
When I was three hundred pounds, we think that conversation would have got me if I spoke kindness to myself. I'll tell you where it gets me. Right back to seven Eleven, another box of mini chocolate doughnuts and a chocolate milkshake. That's the one voice. That's the one voice that most of us have that you're talking about.
如果你不在内心建立另一种对话，那个你创造出来的声音会说，好吧。这看起来怎么样？看起来非常丑陋。那种善意的对话对我来说早已消失，这就是为什么现在你看到大量行动，因为大多数人无所作为——因为他们只有一个人在说话。而那个人总是把你引向同一条路，那条让你自我感觉舒适快乐的路。
If you don't have a conversation in there, the other voice that you create that says, okay. How does this look? Looks very ugly. That kind conversation for me went away a long time ago, which is why the dialogue is now, which you see a lot of action, because most people have inaction because there's one person talking. And that one person's always leading you down the same path, the path that makes you feel very comfortable and happy with yourself.
当你创造出另一个声音的瞬间，冲突就产生了。会有斗争。会有战争。会有失败。我学到一件事，这是我教会自己的，人们会说，我不明白你在说什么。
The second you create the other voice, there's conflict. There's battles. There's wars. There's defeat. One thing I learned, I taught myself this, and people go, I don't understand what you're saying.
我试着简单解释下。我首先教给自己的不是胜利。我教给自己的是失败。我教会自己如何失败。人们会说这太令人沮丧了。
I'm gonna try to break it down real quick. I didn't teach myself victory first. I taught myself failure. I taught myself how to fail. And people are that's so depressing.
是吗？当你体重300磅还不识字，人生一团糟时，在这个过程中你他妈肯定会失败。所以如果你不知道如何失败，就永远不会有胜利。我从不谈论赢，因为我知道通往胜利的道路首先要经历多年的失败。所以我教会自己如何正确地失败。
Is it? When you're 300 and you can't read and write and you're fucked up, there'll be times you're gonna fucking fail on that process. So if you don't know how to fail, there is no victory. I never talked about winning because I knew the path to winning was gonna be years of failing first. So I taught myself how to fail properly.
没人教过你他妈的怎么失败。但如果你要去挑战那些不可能战胜的狗屁困境，那些完全没道理的玩意儿——比如一个不会游泳的黑人小孩，体重三百磅还想当海豹突击队员。好吧，那你最好先学会怎么失败，因为如果你在失败里陷得太久，就永远爬不出来了。
No one teaches you how to fucking fail. But if you're going out for insurmountable fucking odds, that make absolutely no fucking sense. A black kid that can't swim, three hundred pound could be a Navy SEAL. Okay. You better teach yourself how to fail first because if you sit in failure for too long, you will never come out of it.
所以我成功的第一步，就是学会正确地失败。后来我才慢慢开始赢得几场胜利。但人们不明白的是，当你自己挖了个深不见底的坑时，最好先谈谈你即将遭遇的失败。这时候另一个声音就会冒出来。
So the first part of my success was learning how to fail properly. And then eventually, I started getting a few victories. But that's what people don't get. When you have buried yourself in such a deep fucking hole, you better first talk about the failures you're gonna have first. And that's when that other voice comes up.
它会告诉你：我们得做点什么。同时也会说：听着小子，我不骗你，高金斯，你他妈要开始攀岩了兄弟。你会被揍得屁滚尿流，被外界噪音嘲笑，被内心噪音折磨。这两个声音都会他妈的叫你去死。
It tells you we gotta do something. It also tells you, boy, I'm not gonna lie to you, Goggins. You're in for a fucking climb, bro. You're gonna get your ass handed to you, made fun of the outside noise, the inside noise. Both voices are gonna be fucking telling you to go fuck yourself.
你要下地狱了兄弟。我就是。所以我注定会失败。
You are in for hell, bro. I am. So I've been going to fail.
所以你之前说无论别人说什么都无关紧要，指的就是这个意思。
So this is what you mean when you say that whatever anyone says, it's insignificant.
无关紧要到他妈离谱。
Insignificant as fuck.
没错。就像玩具枪的声响，因为你自己脑海里的声音才更可怕。那个...我应该说，抱歉，是你头脑里的某个声音。对，我描述得非常细致，几乎像外科手术般精确，因为我觉得关于内心对话这事，人们总以为只有一个声音。
Right. It's the cap gun fire because it's just like it because the voice in your own head is is far worse. The the and I should say, sorry, one of the voices in your head. Yeah, I'm being very like detailed, almost surgical about that because I think this thing about inner dialogue, think is one voice.
是的。
Yes.
但你说得很清楚，这是很多声音。
But you're making it clear, it's many voices.
确实如此。关键在于，你必须非常...有时候所有这些声音都在告诉你错误的东西，伙计。但经过多年，不是听一期播客或读一本书，而是多年的牺牲、痛苦、对你想要为自己做的事情进行精确到位的努力。不是随便做一堆事情，想着我要参与所有可能的任务。
It is. And the thing about it is you you you have to be really and sometimes all the voices are telling you the wrong shit, man. But through years, years, not a podcast or listening to a book or reading a book, years of sacrifice, of suffering, of diligent pinpoint fucking work on what you want to do for yourself. Not like, oh, let me just do a bunch of shit. Let me I wanna be in every task possible.
不。明确我一生想做什么。问题是，你会听到所有这些声音告诉你你搞砸了，这可能会很难。但出于某种原因，你投入了如此多的练习，以至于你可以忽略每一个说你做不到的声音，仍然能够成功。因为你已经通过练习知道这就是过程。
No. Pinpoint what I want to do with my life. What happens is you have all these voices that are telling you you're fucked up and this could be hard. But for some reason, you put so much practice into you that you can ignore every one of them that are telling you you're not gonna fucking make it and still be able to fucking make it. Because you have put the practice in that you know this is the process.
这是一项如此艰巨的任务，所有声音都在说不，但你仍然坚信我知道我能做到。这就是我走到今天所需要的。二三十年前，我有这个三十五岁或不管多少岁。二十五三十年前，那是个白日梦。从那时起，每个声音都说你他妈疯了。
It's such a daunting task that all the voices are saying no, but you still have the conviction that I know I can do this. And that's what it took for me to get here. Twenty, thirty years ago, I had this thirty five or whatever it was. Thirty twenty five years ago, pipe dream. And ever since then, every voice was like, you're a fucking nut.
但当你每天坚持练习，系好鞋带——我不是说跑步，这只是人生的隐喻。当你每天系好那些该死的鞋带，很快你就会赢。很快你他妈就会赢。只要你有勇气、决心、专注和那种'让所有人都见鬼去吧'的心态。
But when you put that practice in every day, lace them up, and I don't mean run. It's just a metaphor for life. When you lace them motherfuckers up every day, pretty soon you win. Pretty soon you'll fucking win. If you have the courage and the heart and the dedication and the mindset about everybody go fuck themselves.
我知道我所知道的。我倾听自己足够多，知道我知道什么。你们没人能听到我听到的。这就是人们做得不够的地方。他们没有倾听自己的旅程。
I know what I know. I've listened to myself enough to know I know what I know. None of you can hear what I'm hearing. And that's what people don't do enough of. They don't listen to their journey.
他们听信所有人的胡言乱语。转眼间，我就成了疯子。但如果我真他妈疯了，为何还能如此成功？这怎么解释？如果我如此误入歧途、一团糟还不听他的劝。
They listen to everybody else's shit. Before you know it, I'm crazy. But if I'm so fucking crazy, why am I so successful? How that happened? If I'm so misguided and fucked up and don't listen to him.
为什么唯独我干成了这么多事？为什么我是开拓者？为什么？这怎么可能？你怎么可能既一团糟又他妈白手起家？说不通。
Why am I the only one to do a whole bunch of shit? Why am I a trailblazer? Why? How is that possible? How can you be fucked up and also self made the same fucking no.
不。显然，你眼前的事实视而不见。摆在眼前的事实就是——这糟透了。痛苦至极。他妈让人麻木不仁。
No. Obviously, you're not looking at the truth in front of you. The truth in front of you is it sucks. It's painful. It's fucking mind numbing.
这就是真相。所以很多人不爱听我讲话，因为成功需要这些：另辟蹊径，有时孤军奋战。永远孤军奋战，因为没人会相信你。事实如此。
And that is the truth. And that's why a lot of people don't like listening to me because this is what it takes, creating another voice and sometimes going at it alone. All the time going at it alone because no one's gonna believe in you. And that's that.
我要说的绝非臆测，我敢如此断言是因为曾与杰出精神病学家保罗·康蒂做过四期访谈系列。他来自特伦顿，斯坦福哈佛双料精英，同时深谙市井之道。他自己经历过真正的苦难。
What I'm about to say is not conjecture, and I can say that with confidence because I did a four episode guest series with a a brilliant psychiatrist, a guy named Paul Conte. He's from Trenton. He's a Stanford Harvard trained guy. He's also got a lot of street in him. He's got his own hardship, real hardship.
他非常睿智。有句话让我永生难忘：人们总以为前脑——负责制定策略的部分——是超级计算机。他说不不不，真正的超级计算机是潜意识。它掌控着绝大多数行为，可惜多数人从不探究潜意识如何支配自己。
He's brilliant. And he said something that I'll never forget, which is, you know, we think that the forebrain, the part of our brain that creates strategy, etcetera, is the supercomputer. He said, no, no, no, no, It's like the supercomputer of the brain is the unconscious mind. It's the part of our mind that's controlling most everything. And most people unfortunately don't do the work to understand how their unconscious is controlling them.
这概念很可怕——你的思想在控制你。我不想卷入自由意志的辩论，但我相信至少存在部分自主意志。你描述的这种内心对话，我认为你触及了潜意识。通过倾听内在对话，我们在睡眠、梦境、冥想中都能验证这点。只要屏蔽所有外界噪音——那些将我们引向歧途的引力场。说是噪音可能苛刻，实则是圣诞饼干般的甜蜜诱惑，让我们在不知不觉中自我麻痹。
And that's a scary thing, this idea like your mind is controlling you, you know, and I'm not going to get into the freewill debate. I believe in at least some will. I believe what you're describing and this internal dialogue, I think you have access to your unconscious mind. You by listening to the dialogue going inward, we know this is true in sleep, in dreams, in meditation, and just by shutting out everything else, shutting out all the external noise, which is filled with things that pull us to ways. Noise makes us sound bad, but it's the gravitational pull of all the things that just allow us to distract ourselves without knowing that, you know, it's the ice cream, the have a cookie, the Merry Christmas.
潜意识，这座冰山之下庞大的部分，保罗称之为超级计算机。他以神经生物学家、精神病学家和心理学家的专业知识断言，这才是真正需要内省的部分——他称之为‘橱柜’，你必须打开橱柜查看，而里面发现的东西往往令人毛骨悚然。大多数人甚至不愿承认这些橱柜的存在。而你却正在拉开所有柜门。
The unconscious mind, this huge piece of the iceberg underneath that Paul calls the supercomputer. He's saying that with knowledge as a neurobiologist, psychiatrist, psychologist, and he really knows. That's the piece that if one does real introspection, he calls it the cupboards, you got to look in the cupboards and it's often really scary what you find in there. And most people are just like, I don't even want to know the cupboards are there. But you're pulling all the cupboard doors open.
然后你会极度审慎地选择付诸行动的内容。你不会单纯地因为愤怒就表现愤怒，或是因疲惫就显露疲态。你是在精心筛选该展现什么。我猜这种能力是你逐渐形成的。
And then you're extremely deliberate with what gets put into action. You're not just going, oh, like I'm pissed, so I'm going to act pissed. Or I'm, you know, tired, I'm gonna act tired. It's, you're picking very carefully what to do. And that's a process that I'm guessing came to you.
这种认知是否自然而然地出现？比如你理解跑步的意义，也明白跳伞灭火的价值。看来你大部分时间都用于自我剖析与构建内在逻辑体系。所以当他人不理解你时，这种挫败感必然格外强烈。
Does it come to you as a, okay, it makes sense why running makes sense. It makes sense why smoke jumping makes sense. So it seems like a huge portion of your time is spent understanding yourself and making sense to you. And so when people don't understand you, it's got to be extra frustrating.
确实。
Yes.
因为绝大多数人都不了解自己。所以我们都在互相指责'你是这样''你是那样'。毕竟多数人根本不愿审视内心——包括我自己，
Because most people don't understand themselves. So that we're all running around going like, you're this and you're that. Because most people are just unwilling to look inward. And I'm including myself, by
顺便说一句。没错。
the way. Right.
虽然我做过不少自省，但今天确实被激发了——用'激励'这个词很准确——我有了更深入探索内心的动力。因为这确实可怕，就像我们不知道那些橱柜里藏着什么，这种未知令人恐惧。
I mean, I've done a fair amount of introspection, but I'm inspired today, that word inspire, but it's true, motivated to start going inward further. Because it is scary. It's like we don't know what's in those cupboards and it's terrifying.
是的。
Yes.
尤其是因为我们不知道。
Especially because we don't know.
而这些是最先敞开的。就像他说的，你得翻遍那些橱柜。我每天都在那些阴暗的橱柜里进行该死的春季大扫除。那些黑暗的柜子，我首先处理的就是它们。那才是真实的我，伙计。
And those are the first ones to open up. And like he talked about, you gotta go through those cupboards. I do spring clean every fucking day in those dark cupboards. Those dark cabinets, the ones I start with first. That's the real me, man.
那才是真实的我。这就是为什么我不感到羞耻。我不再隐藏。我曾经躲藏，但如今不再。
That's the real me. That's why I I'm I'm not ashamed. I don't hide. I used to hide. I don't hide anymore.
他说得完全正确。我他妈不懂所有背后的科学道理。我只知道我所知道的。这就是为什么我不再听信任何人。我他妈什么都不听。
He's exactly right. I I don't know all the fucking science behind shit. I know what I know. That's why I don't listen to anybody anymore. I don't listen to shit.
我觉得大多数人都在放屁。因为我知道。我知道那些该死的橱柜里深藏的黑暗秘密。那很丑陋，伙计。而每一天，我都在和它们对话。
I think most people are full of shit. Because I know. I know the deep, dark secrets of those fucking cupboards. It's ugly, man. And every day, I'm talking to them.
每一天，我都在清理它们。我在清理它们，同时与那些从该死的柜门里跑出来的恶魔交谈，一边清理它们。有时它们又会钻回去。这并不容易。这就是为什么我们大多数人——为什么我会被误解。
Every day, I'm cleaning them. I'm I'm cleaning them, and I'm talking to the same demons that came out of of those fucking covers as I'm as I'm cleaning them. Sometimes it go right back in them again. It's not easy. And this is why most of us just why I'm misunderstood.
因为当我清理那些橱柜时，里面的东西有时会出现在Instagram上，有时会藏在口袋里，有时会在这个柜子里被发现。我让人退避三舍。打开你自己的橱柜，然后再来评头论足。
Because what comes out of those cabinets that I'm cleaning, sometimes they see on Instagram. Sometimes they'll see it in the pocket. Sometimes they see in this one. I turn people off. Open up your own cabinets and then go talk about it.
让我看看它有多光鲜。让我听听你说话多动听。让我瞧瞧你的言辞多完美。我敢打赌你嘴里会蹦出‘操’或‘狗娘养的’——因为你要再次面对那个水肿病人用过的破柜子，每天重复清理需要很大勇气，兄弟。日复一日回到那里进行春季大扫除。
Let me see how pretty it looks. Let me see how pretty you sound. Let me see how put together your words are. I bet you a fuck or a motherfucker comes out because for you to go back in there again, to clean the same fucking cabinet that edema came out of, take some big balls, bro, to do it every day of your life. To go back in there and spring clean every day.
不是他妈的一年一次。不是十年一次。而是每天，你知道灰尘总会堆积。每天你都不是从胜利开始。你不会说‘哦这真不错’。
Not once a fucking year. Once every decade. Every day, you know, it gets dusty. And every day, you don't start with the with the victories. You don't go, oh, this is nice.
看看我的自恋墙。让我清理这点灰尘。不。我直奔那些会埋葬我的东西。我首先处理它们，因为如果不先清理这些，新的一天就无法开始。
Look at my look at my I love me wall. Let me clean up this little dusty. Nope. I go right for the things that are gonna keep me buried. And I go right there first because if I don't clean those out first, the day doesn't start.
所以你告诉我的就是真相。就像我今天多次说的，我永远不知道如何向人解释这些破事——因为我没有任何神经质毛病。我只是个认定必须从地牢开始的人，并且要在此度过余生。想要成功，地牢必须是洁净之地。
So what are you saying to me is truth. And like I told you many times today, I can never figure out how to explain this shit to people because I'm not neuro nothing. I'm just a guy that said, okay, we got to start in the dungeon. And we got to stay here for the rest of our lives. For you to become successful, the dungeon is a place that has to be clean.
那是最可怕的地方。这就是我被人误解的原因——因为我在地牢里发声。这就是我成功的原因——因为我每天都去那里。
And it's the scariest place to be. That's why I misunderstood. Because I'm speaking from the dungeon. That's why I am successful. Because I go there every damn day.
他说的就是真相。千真万确。那些橱柜他妈的全是灰尘、污垢和吓人的玩意。碎玻璃、漆黑一片、蜘蛛、蛛网，但最重要的是——你内心最大的恐惧。让你沦落到今天这般田地的罪魁祸首全在里面。
And that is the truth what he says. It's the exact truth. Those cabinets are fucking dusty, dirty, and scary as shit. Broken glass, fucking dark, spiders, cobwebs, but most of all, your biggest fears. The biggest things that put you in the fucked up place you are today are in there.
所以我们总喜欢把它们关起来，甚至锁住。假装它们从未发生。这就是为什么你永远无法成长。永远无法进步。永远无法进行像我们现在这样的真实对话。
So we all like to keep them shut, even like to lock them up. Act like they never happen. That's why you never grow. You never improve. You never have real conversations like we're having right now.
永远不。永远不。哦，不，不，不，不，不，不。我们别这样。不，不，不。
Never. Never. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's not. No, no, no.
我们别往那方面说。我跟很多人聊过，他们都这么告诉我。我们来谈谈这个。因为他们虽然会告诉我，但只能说一次。而且总是轻描淡写地带过。
Let's not go there. I talked to so many people who tell me that. Let's talk about this. Because they'll tell me, but they can only say it once. And they'll say it in passing.
他们不会深入探讨细节。就像，不能只是简单清理，混蛋。你得把那破事擦得锃亮。你得重新经历它。每一个该死的细节。
They won't get deep in the weeds with it. Like, can't just clean it, motherfucker. You gotta spit shine that motherfucker. You gotta relive it. Every fucking detail of it.
你不能只是说，哦，是啊。是啊。我爸打过我，然后...你懂的？懂吗？就...就这样吧。
You can't just be oh, yeah. Yeah. My dad beat me, and they you know? You know? It it it is what it is.
就这样吧，混蛋。它正在杀死你。它正在吞噬你整个该死的人生。但这才是有价值的对话。对。
It is what it is, motherfucker. It's it's killing you. It's taking over your whole fucking life. But that's the conversation. Yeah.
我爸打我...不过我现在没事了。我很好。好吧。行吧。不。
My dad beat I'm fine now, though. I'm good. Okay. Alright. No.
你不是。你并不好。你并不好。这是真心话。人们没有那种状态。
You ain't. You ain't fine. You ain't fine. This is this is real talk. People don't have that.
所以你的兄弟说得对。百分之百正确。虽然吓人得要命。正是这种让你成为命中注定的自己的恐惧才是考验。我们却忘了。
So your boy's right. 100% right. Scary as shit. It's scary as shit that makes you who you're supposed to be, and that's the test. We forget.
我们以为人生就该呼吸空气、生儿育女、付账单这些破事。但这生命到底为了什么？毫无意义。你正在接受考验，朋友。考验总在你毫无准备时降临。
We we think we're supposed to breathe air and have kids and pay the bills and shit. And what what's this life about? That ain't no sense. You're being tested, my friend. Tests come when you have not studied.
考验会在你志得意满时出现。这就是考验。生命的每一天都是考验。而我们多数人失败，因为不知道自己为何存在，因为我们不愿内省：老天，你给我这么多烂摊子收拾，这考验真糟心。但接着你开始行动。
Tests come when you think that you're in a great place. That's that's the test. The test is every day of your life. And most of us fail because we don't know why we're here because we don't go inward to say, oh, you gave me a lot of shit to fix, man, And this test sucks. But then you start.
大卫·戈金斯。我想我无法补充什么。我知道我不能。感谢你今天分享的一切。尽管外人无法完全理解你或任何人的心路历程，但你确实让我们窥见了这个——如你所说——上帝赋予你的修行过程。
David Goggins. I don't think I could add to that. I know I can't. Thank you for sharing what you shared today. I mean, as much as your process or anyone's process can't be completely understood from the outside, you gave us a real window into this thing, this process that you've was as you said, God put it on you.
嗯。我也信仰上帝。人们可以各有所信，但你的生命轨迹似乎显示，上帝早早给了你这些挑战，直到某个节点你开始内省。如你所言，你培养了一种能力，但这是会退步的能力。而你显然活在不断打开那些橱柜、重新擦拭它们的过程中，明白它们永远无法彻底完工，但你能逐步取得进展。
Mhmm. I believe in God too. People can believe what they want, but I somehow your life, God gave you these challenges early on and then there was a point where you went internal. And like you said, you developed a skill, but it's a perishable skill. And you clearly live in the process of opening those cupboards, reopening those cupboards, trying to spit shine those cupboards, understanding that they're never ever really done, but that you can gain ground on them.
没错。
Right.
你能日复一日地赢得胜利。你确实分享了许多具体的方法，我相信人们只要愿意实践就能运用。没错。我同意你的观点，大多数人听完可能会感叹：哇，信息量太大了。
That you can win day after day after day. And you really shared a lot of concrete things that I think I know people are going to be able to apply if they choose. Right. And I agree with you. I think most people will be like, woah, that was a lot.
是的，内容很沉重。我现在只想沉浸在网飞剧和零食里。
Yep. It's heavy. I think I want to just kind of bake myself in Netflix and Chex Mix
确实。
Yep.
但现实中也有人——无论男女老少——听完会立刻行动起来，开始翻箱倒柜地实践。就我个人而言，我特别感激你愿意毫无保留地分享。你的诚实近乎残酷，真实得令人震撼。
Instead. But there's also the reality that there are men and women, boys and girls who hear that and go, okay, and start cracking the the cupboards open. Right. And I I just know that, you know, for myself, I'm extremely grateful that you're willing to put it all out there. You're so brutally honest, so brutally authentic.
‘真实’这个词被滥用得太多了。但我能肯定，正是这种真实引起了我和所有人的共鸣。无论你是否刻意为之，你都在为他人照亮前路。所以谢谢你。
That word authenticity gets thrown around so much. And I can tell you that for me and for everybody else, like that's what really what resonates. So whether or not you want to, whether or not it's the purpose behind it or not, you're lighting the path. So thank you.
致敬。谢谢邀请。
Respect. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
感谢大家参与今天与大卫·戈金斯的对话。想了解更多关于大卫的信息，或获取他的两本精彩著作《无法伤害我》和《永无止境》的链接，请查看节目注释。如果你从本期播客中有所收获或喜欢我们的内容，请订阅我们的YouTube频道——这是零成本支持我们的好方式。另外，也请在Spotify和苹果播客上订阅本节目。
Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with David Goggins. To learn more about David and to find links to his two fantastic books, Can't Hurt Me and Never Finished, please see the show note captions. If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's a terrific zero cost way to support us. In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on both Spotify and Apple.
在Spotify和Apple上，您都可以给我们留下五星评价。也请关注今天节目开头及过程中提到的赞助商，这是支持本播客的最佳方式。如果您对Huberman Lab播客有任何疑问、意见，或希望我探讨的嘉宾和话题建议，请在YouTube评论区留言。我会阅读所有评论。
And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five star review. Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode. That's the best way to support this podcast. If you have questions or comments about the Huberman Lab Podcast or if you have suggestions about guests or topics that you'd like me to cover, please put those in the comments section on YouTube. Do read all the comments.
虽然今天的节目没有讨论，但在Huberman Lab播客的往期节目中，我们多次探讨过营养补充剂。虽然并非人人都需服用，但许多人在改善睡眠、激素支持和专注力等方面受益匪浅。若想了解节目中提到的补充剂详情，请访问livemomentous（拼写为0us），即livemomentous.com/huberman。若您尚未在社交媒体关注我，所有平台账号均为Huberman Lab。
Not on today's episode, but on many previous episodes of the Huberman Lab Podcast, we discuss supplements. While supplements aren't necessary for everybody, many people derive tremendous benefit from them for things like improving sleep, for hormone support, and for focus. If you'd like to learn more about the supplements discussed on the Huberman Lab Podcast, please go to livemomentous, spelled 0us. So that's livemomentous.com/huberman. If you're not already following me on social media, I am Huberman Lab on all social media platforms.
包括Instagram、Twitter、Threads、X、LinkedIn和Facebook。在这些平台上，我会讨论科学及科学相关工具，部分内容与播客有所重叠，但更多是独家内容。重申一次，所有平台账号均为Huberman Lab。若您还未订阅我们的神经网络通讯，我强烈推荐您免费订阅。该通讯提供播客摘要和1-3页的PDF版实用指南。
So that's Instagram, Twitter, Threads, X, LinkedIn, and Facebook. And on all those platforms, I discuss science and science related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab Podcast, but much of which is distinct from the content on the Huberman Lab Podcast. So, again, it's Huberman Lab on all social media platforms. If you haven't already subscribed to our neural network newsletter, I encourage you to do so. It is completely zero cost and it provides podcast summaries and protocols in the form of brief PDFs of one to three pages.
比如刻意冷暴露训练、基础健身方案、刻意热暴露指南、多巴胺管理、睡眠优化等众多内容。再次强调完全免费。您只需访问hubermanlab.com，点击菜单中的newsletter选项，输入邮箱即可订阅。需要说明的是，我们绝不会泄露您的邮箱信息。再次感谢您参与今天与独一无二的大卫·戈金斯对话。最后但同样重要的是，感谢您对科学的关注。
Things like deliberate cold exposure, a protocol for foundational fitness, a protocol for deliberate heat exposure, for managing dopamine, for optimizing your sleep and so on and so on. Again, completely zero cost. You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the menu, scroll down to newsletter and click on the newsletter tab and you enter your email to sign up, but I should point out that we do not share your email with anybody. Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with the one and only David Goggins. And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕，帮助你打破语言障碍，轻松听懂全球优质播客。