将痛苦与创伤转化为创意表达 | 大卫·乔

他整个造型都有，比如闪亮的嘴唇之类的。

And he had the whole thing, like the shiny lips and the thing.

我当时就想，这不就是皮威·赫尔曼吗。

And I was like, that's Pee Wee Herman.

太棒了，我喜欢这个。

That's amazing, I love that.

好吧，我的确得跟你讲讲我的皮威·赫尔曼故事，只是迟早的事。

All right, well, I mean, I'm definitely gonna have to tell you my Pee Wee Herman story at some point.

我想先短暂休息一下，感谢我们的赞助商 Eight Sleep。

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Eight Sleep.

Eight Sleep 生产智能床垫罩，具有制冷、加热和睡眠追踪功能。

Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.

确保你拥有优质睡眠的最佳方式之一，就是让睡眠环境的温度保持适宜。

One of the best ways to ensure you get a great night's sleep is to make sure that the temperature of your sleeping environment is correct.

这是因为，要入睡并保持深度睡眠，你的体温实际上需要下降大约一到三度。

And that's because in order to fall asleep and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about one to three degrees.

为了醒来时感觉神清气爽、精力充沛，你的体温实际上需要上升大约一到三度。

And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase by about one to three degrees.

Eight Sleep 会根据你的独特需求，在整夜自动调节床铺的温度。

Eight Sleep automatically regulates the temperature of your bed throughout the night according to your unique needs.

我几乎已经使用了五年 Eight Sleep 的床垫罩，它彻底改变了我的睡眠质量。

I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for nearly five years now, and it has completely transformed and improved the quality of my sleep.

Eight Sleep 最新的型号是 Pod five。

The latest Eight Sleep model is the Pod five.

我现在睡的就是这个，我非常喜欢它。

This is what I'm now sleeping on and I absolutely love it.

它拥有许多令人惊叹的功能。

It has so many incredible features.

例如，Pod five 配备了一项名为自动模式的功能，这是一个AI引擎，能够学习你的睡眠模式，并在不同睡眠阶段调节睡眠环境的温度。

For instance, the Pod five has a feature called autopilot, which is an AI engine that learns your sleep patterns and then adjusts the temperature of your sleeping environment across different sleep stages.

它甚至会在你打鼾时抬高你的头部，并做出其他调整以优化你的睡眠。

It'll even elevate your head if you're snoring and it makes other shifts to optimize your sleep.

如果您想试用Eight Sleep，请访问eightsleep.com/huberman，即可享受Pod Five Ultra立减450美元的优惠。

If you would like to try Eight Sleep, go to eightsleep.com/huberman to get four fifty dollars off the Pod five Ultra.

这是Eight Sleep延长的假日促销活动，从现在持续到2025年12月31日。

This is part of Eight Sleep's extended holiday sale, which goes from now until 12/31/2025.

Eight Sleep向全球许多国家发货，包括墨西哥和阿联酋。

Eight Sleep ships to many countries worldwide, including Mexico and The UAE.

再次提醒，访问eightsleep.com/huberman，即可在2025年12月31日前最多节省450美元。

Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to four fifty dollars now through 12/31/2025.

今天的节目还由Element赞助。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Element.

Element是一种电解质饮品，含有您所需的一切，不含任何不需要的成分。

Element is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.

也就是说，它含有适量的电解质、钠、镁和钾，且不含糖。

That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium all in the correct ratios, but no sugar.

适当的水分补充对大脑和身体功能至关重要。

Proper hydration is critical for brain and body function.

即使轻微的脱水也会降低你的认知和体能表现。

Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish your cognitive and physical performance.

确保摄入足够的电解质也很重要。

It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.

电解质，如钠、镁和钾，对身体所有细胞的功能至关重要，尤其是你的神经元或神经细胞。

The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium are vital for the functioning of all cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.

饮用Element可以轻松确保你获得充足的水分和电解质。

Drinking Element makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.

我的一天通常开始得非常快，意味着我必须立即投入工作或锻炼。

My days tend to start really fast, meaning I have to jump right into work or right into exercise.

因此，为了确保我充分补水并拥有足够的电解质，每天早上醒来时，我会饮用16到32盎司加了一包Element的水。

So to make sure that I'm hydrated and I have sufficient electrolytes, when I first wake up in the morning, I drink 16 to 32 ounces of water with an element packet dissolved in it.

在进行任何体力活动时，尤其是炎热天气下大量出汗、流失水分和电解质时，我也会饮用溶解了Element的水。

I also drink element dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.

Element有多种美味的口味。

Element has a bunch of great tasting flavors.

事实上，我全都喜欢。

In fact, I love them all.

我喜欢西瓜味、覆盆子味、柑橘味，我特别喜欢柠檬水味。

I love the watermelon, the raspberry, the citrus, and I really love the lemonade flavor.

如果你想尝试Element，可以访问drinkelement.com/huberman，在任何购买后领取一份免费的Element试用装。

So if you'd like to try Element, you can go to drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free Element sample pack with any purchase.

再次提醒，访问drinkelement.com/huberman领取免费试用装。

Again, that's drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.

对我来说，小时候的艺术教育，就像三位一体的圣典，我的童年教育三巨头是罗杰斯先生、鲍勃·罗斯，当然还有皮威·赫尔曼。

For me, art as a kid growing up, like the trifecta, my holy trinity of children's education, art, entertainment is mister Rogers, Bob Ross, and then, of course, Pee Wee Herman.

我的意思是，皮威·赫尔曼请来了劳伦斯·菲什伯恩、加里·潘特、马克·莫thersbaugh，还有丹尼·艾夫曼。

I mean, Pee Wee Herman had Laurence Fishburne, Gary Panter, Mark Mothersbaugh, like, Danny Elfman.

他简直就是所有创意的总指挥，他还记得那个秘密暗号吗？

Like, he just he was, like, the ringleader of all this creativity, and he had, like, And do you remember the do you remember the secret word?

哦。

Oh.

秘密词是，像我们这个年龄正在看季后赛的人，秘密词就是‘我不知道’。

The secret word was, like, if anyone our age that's watching people's playoffs, it was, like, today's secret word is I don't know.

今天我们的秘密词是什么，罗布？

What's our secret word today, Rob?

麦克风。

Microphone.

麦克风。

Microphone.

如果有人说了‘麦克风’，就大声尖叫。

And if someone says microphone, scream real loud.

那我们今天能这么做吗？

So can we do that today?

当然可以。

Sure.

好的。

All right.

我全靠你了。

I'm counting on you.

我希望你喊得最大声。

I want you to scream the loudest.

在我们上厕所之前，你不准去上厕所。

And you don't take a pee until we take a pee.

你同意这一点吗？

You got an agreement on that?

好的。

Okay.

好吧。

All right.

我讨厌南湾。

I hated the South Bay.

我就是讨厌，我真的有所有那些典型的艺术家特质。

I I hate like, I just I'm I have all the typical art artist traits.

我患有临床抑郁症。

I'm clinically depressed.

我有双相情感障碍。

I'm bipolar.

我有所有类型的过程成瘾：饮食、性、赌博、购物、工作狂。

I have all the process addictions, food, sex, gambling, shopping, workaholism.

幸运的是，我没有任何化学物质成瘾，因为我对所有东西都过敏。

Like, I don't have thank God I don't have any of the chemical addictions because I'm allergic to everything.

但我有严重的强迫症和严重的反社会倾向，你知道，我只是非常敏感，对吧？

But severe OCD, severe antisocial traits, you know, I I just highly sensitive, you know?

所以，我今天来这里，就像你问我一样，我一直想说：我知道我们之前已经聊过这个话题好几个月了，但说实话，我不知道怎么才能不是现在的我。

So I I just coming here today, like, you asked me and I kept text like, I know we did this, like, dance for a few months and I if I'm just being honest with you, like, I I don't I don't know how to not be me, you know?

有时候，我会戴上一副面具，心想：今天安德鲁希望我成为什么样的人，但你知道，我连你都还没见过。

And sometimes, like, I put a mask on and I I I'm like, I think this is what Andrew wants me to be today, but I I you know, I didn't even meet you yet.

所以每次我参加乔·罗根或其他播客节目时，我都觉得不知道该说什么。

And so every time I've done Joe Rogan or any other podcast, like, I don't know.

我只是觉得做自己的YouTube频道或播客时更自在。

I just feel comfortable doing my own YouTube or my own podcast.

但每当别人问我时，我就觉得特别难，我知道我是谁，但有时我又不确定，有时我才慢慢弄明白。

But anytime anyone else asks me, it's such a I know who I am, and sometimes I don't, and sometimes I figure that out.

有时候你在街头、展馆或超市遇到人，他们会说：‘我认识你。’这就像一种拟社会关系，他们觉得他们了解你。

And it's sometimes you meet people on the street at pavilions or at the supermarket, and they're like, I and it's like this parasocial thing where it's like, I know you.

我感同身受。

I relate to you.

这种感觉很特别，你知道吗？当你与另一个人建立亲密联系，向他们敞开内心，倾诉一切。

I and there's something about that where, you know, the intimacy of meeting another human being and then just showing them your heart and then telling them everything.

我父母不会听这个。

And my parents aren't gonna listen to this.

我兄弟们也不会听这个。

My brothers don't listen to this.

所以，以一种奇怪的方式，今天你对我的了解，可能比我自己的家人还要多。

Like, so in a weird way, like, you're gonna know more about me today than my own family.

所以这种拟社会关系真的是存在的。

So the parasocial thing is even it's real.

对吧？

Right?

就像安慰剂效应是真的。

Like, placebo effect is real.

所有这些事情都是真的。

Like, all these things.

所以呢，你知道的，我来得挺早的。

So I, you know, I got here early.

我沿着那条街散了会儿步，然后就看到了一片美丽的海景。

I went for a walk down the to those out street, and then it's, like, just this beautiful view of the ocean.

而且每次都会这样。

And I I it happens every time.

就像，我知道这听起来有多奇怪。

It's like, it it it I know what it makes me sound like.

就好像，这家伙很不稳定、精神失常，而我第一个承认这一点。

It's like, oh, this guy's, like, very unstable and unhinged, and I'm I'd be the first to admit it.

我现在动不动就哭。

It's like, I cry all the time now.

我不知道是因为什么，也许是路上看到的所有烧毁的房子，还有我知道自己已经很久没说话了。

Like, I don't know what it it was just like maybe just seeing all the burned houses on the way here, just knowing that I haven't talked in a long time.

对我来说没有任何好处。

And there's no upside for me.

我已经告诉过你了。

And I told you that.

我想起以前上播客的时候，比如十五、二十年前的霍华德·斯特恩，还有乔·罗根，我上过好几次节目，我认为这是唯二两个从不剪辑、直接播出的电台节目或播客。

I was like, I go on these podcasts and I think Howard Stern, like fifteen, twenty years ago, and Joe Rogan, the multiple times I've been on a show, I think are the only two radio shows, podcasts that have ever just aired it without editing.

其他所有节目，你每次在别的播客里听到我，要么被严重剪辑，要么删掉大段内容，甚至根本没播出来。

Everyone else every time you've ever heard me on any other podcast, it's either severely edited or they cut out huge chunks of it or they didn't even air it at all.

所以我知道，你知道的，我也明白我们今天所处的世界。

So I know that, you know, and I know the world we live in today.

所以，那种自恋特质里有些东西发生了变化，从‘我他娘的是世界上最好的艺术家’到‘天啊’。

And so there was something that went, you know, in the the narcissistic traits where I'm I'm the fucking greatest artist in the world to like, oh my god.

我是个垃圾。

I'm a piece of shit.

就像，你知道的，就是这么回事。

Like, just you know, it's just like this thing.

以前我年轻的时候，觉得每个人都必须看到一切。

And before when I was younger, was like everyone has to see everything.

每个人都觉得我太重要了，必须看到我创作的每一样东西——绘画、播客、书籍，不管是什么。

Everyone has like I think I'm so important that everyone has to see everything that I create, painting, podcast, book, like whatever it is.

然后我的问题变成了，我的东西要么全有要么全无，所以我很难找到中间地带。

And then it went like my problem with my shit is it's all or nothing, so it's hard for me to find the middle.

所以现在，我已经49岁了。

And so at this point now, I'm, like, 49.

我过着非常安静的爸爸生活。

I live a very quiet dad life.

你知道，我是个顾家的人。

You know, I'm a family guy.

有成千上万幅画作，从来没人见过。

And there's just thousands of paintings no one's ever seen.

有数百小时，甚至数千小时的播客，我从未发布过。

There's hundreds of hours, if not thousands of hours of podcasts I've never put out.

我写过一些书。

There's books I've written.

我拍过电视剧和电影，但以前我的自我和自恋让我觉得，你必须把这些东西发布出去，因为你很重要，每个人都需要看到你有多重要。

There's TV shows, movies that I've made that it's just I don't before the ego and the narcissist is like, you need to put this out because you're important and everyone needs to see how important you are.

而现在相反的一面，也许这也不够健康，那就是：我知道我是谁。

And now the flip side to that, maybe maybe it's not healthy either, is like, I know who I am.

我对自己感到安心，我不需要——你知道的，我并不是刻意屏蔽一切。

I'm comfortable with myself, and I don't I don't need you know, I'm artificially blocked from everything.

我连自己社交媒体的密码都没有。

Like, I I'm I don't have my own password to my social media.

我手机上设置了屏蔽，所以无法访问互联网。

I don't I have blocks on my phone, so I can't access the Internet.

所以我把这些东西都放在一边，是为了保护自己，因为我是个敏感的人。

So it's like, I do put all these things in the place to like protect myself because I'm a sensitive person.

所以，作为艺术家，有一些特定的刻板印象和故事。

So, you know, as an artist, there's certain isms and and story.

就像是，穷困的艺术家。

It's like, oh, starving artist.

你赚不到什么钱。

You're not gonna make any money.

像是，挣扎的艺术家。

Like, struggling artist.

人们总说这些故事，然后你就信了。

There's these stories that people say and then you buy into them.

但一路上我遇到过几位老师，他们影响了我，你知道，人生中总有一些瞬间，会一直萦绕在你脑海里挥之不去。

But I had I had a few teachers along the way that influenced me that, like, you know, there's, like, just certain moments happen in your life that live in your your head rent free.

我有很多这样的时刻。

And I have a lot of those.

所以其中一个说法是，你知道，我今年49岁了。

And so one of the stories is, you know, I'm 49.

好像你必须住在纽约市。

It's like, you have to live in New York City.

如果你在纽约成功了，那你在哪里都能成功。

If you make it in New York, you make it anywhere.

我2008年4月在那儿干嘛？

What the fuck am I doing in the 04/2008?

我到底在库珀镇干什么？

Like, this is what am I doing in Cooper teen?

在我脑子里，这个故事早就写好了：你他妈的就是个……

Like like, in my head, the story's written that you're a fucking you know?

而我什么都没做成。

And I hadn't done shit.

对吧？

Right?

但在我心里，我觉得我是吉尔罗伊有史以来最伟大的艺术家。

But in my head, I'm like, you're a greatest artist ever in Gilroy.

你知道的？

You know?

就像，你知道我说的是什么意思吧？

Like, what you know what I mean?

抱歉。

Sorry.

对吉尔罗伊没有不敬的意思。

No disrespect to Gilroy.

大蒜之都，大蒜节，大蒜冰淇淋，你知道的？

The garlic capital of garlic fest, garlic ice cream, you know?

所以我心里有个故事，就是我必须去纽约。

So there's a story in my head that is like, I gotta get to New York City.

对吧？

Right?

就像，我必须得，我实在没法在洛杉矶获得任何空间。

Like, I gotta like, I couldn't I couldn't get any, like, leeway in Los Angeles.

我生在洛杉矶，长在洛杉矶，但我就是不行，你知道吧？

I'm born and raised in LA, I just I couldn't, you know?

现在回想起来，如果我盘点我人生中最富有创造力的爆发期和最具创造力的阶段，总是在那些平凡的时刻找到的。

And and so I I I and now I look back, if I do an inventory of the most creative explosions and the most periods of creativity in my life, it's always found in the mundane.

总是在寒冷的天气里。

It's always found in cold temperatures.

总是在没有Wi-Fi的时候。

It's always found when there's no WiFi.

总是在郊区，就像这个故事一样，当我终于到了该死的纽约，我要成为这场变革的一部分。

It's always found in a suburb of it's it's like this story, like, and when I get to fucking New York, and I'm gonna be part of this move.

从来都不是那样。

It's never that.

就像，把这浪漫化听起来不错，但真正的灵感就来自这些时刻。

Like, it's nice to romanticize that, but it's these moments of brilliance.

就像，现在正在听的人可能会想：我懂了。

Like, someone whoever's listening right now, they're like, I got this.

然后我就想，接下来我要做到这个，接着我要遇到这个人，我要去做那个，但老兄，我其实已经在圣何塞住了七年。

And then I'm there's like a and I'm then gonna get to this, and then I'm gonna meet this person, and I'm gonna do and it's like, bro, I was fucking living in San Jose for seven years.

我遇到了一位很棒的女士。

I met this wonderful lady.

她是我交往了七年的女友。

She was my girlfriend for seven years.

但在那个关键时期，我才23岁，我当时想，对我而言，压力太大了，因为我的一位老师就是我妈妈。

But, like, at that prime, I was 23, and I was like and for me the stakes are so high because I so one of the teachers was my mother.

我妈妈是个狂热的重生派基督徒。

My mother is hardcore born again Christian.

所以科学根本不在她的考虑范围内。

So science does not enter the picture.

对吧？

Right?

就像戴了眼罩一样。

It's like blinders on.

通过她，我学会了盲目的信仰。

And through her, I learned blind faith.

对吧？

Right?

耶稣基督。

Jesus Christ.

就这样了。

That's it.

等等，根本不存在什么。

There's no there's no so wait.

你是说真的有一艘方舟，上面只有两只动物，而且这两只动物并没有互相残杀，对吧？

You're telling me there was an actual ark with two animals and all the the two animals didn't kill the other in the know?

还有亚当，还有一条会说话的蛇。

And there was Adam and there was a snake that talked.

就像，没错。

It's like, yeah.

毫不迟疑。

Like, no hesitation.

所以她给了我这份礼物，就像，嘿。

So she gave me that gift of, like like, hey.

科学？

Science?

比如，事实？

Like, facts?

不。

No.

盲目的，天哪。

Blind like, just holy shit.

她根本没什么可被指责的。

Like, there's nothing could fault her.

你简直是个傻子。

And you're like, you're fucking stupid.

你太无知了。

You're ignorant.

但她其实并不是那样的。

Like and she's but she's not.

她是个聪明的女人。

She's a bright woman.

现在我回过头想想，我当时刚认识你。

And now I look back and, like, I just met you.

你是个非常聪明的人。

You you're a brilliant guy.

我坐在这里想，我认识一些世界上最有智慧的人。

And I I sit here and I go, I know some of the smartest people on the planet.

你认识世界上一些最聪明的人。

You know some of the smartest people on the planet.

但他们都很蠢。

And they're all dumb.

他们全都是，呃，傻瓜。

They're all, like, idiots.

你会说，等等，你是个天才。

You're like, wait, you're a genius.

你有照相式的记忆力。

You have photographic memory.

你创办了这家公司。

You created this company.

但你也做出过我所知道的最愚蠢的决定。

And you've made some of the dumbest decisions I've ever you know?

就像，没错。

It's like it's like, yeah.

你在这方面真的很棒，但你不懂人际关系，或者你根本不懂。我妈妈通过只是观察她，让我形成了这种绝对的信念。

You're really good at this, but you don't know relationships or you don't know so So my mom taught me through just not anything but just watching her of just this absolute belief.

她的一个信念是：你是我的儿子。

And one of her beliefs was, you're my son.

你知道，这就像耶稣之类的事，我小时候是个神经质的混乱体，成长在一个不稳定的家庭，被性侵、遭受身体和情感虐待，简直一团糟，因为他们一直在工作。

You know, this is some Jesus shit like me, who was like, how I explained this is fucking neurotic mess, like growing up in an unstable family and all that got fucking molested, abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, like just chaotic because they were working.

然后我就被丢在野外，被遗弃，还遭受精神虐待，所有这些糟心事。

Then I was just like left out in the wild, abandoned, spiritual abuse, all this shit.

但她就像相信上帝和耶稣一样，坚定地认为：你就是那个特别的人。

And she's just like, in the same way she believed in God and Jesus, she's like, you're the one.

你是最伟大的艺术家。

You're the greatest artist.

可我当时才五岁。

And I'm like, five years old.

我心想：你到底在说什么鬼东西？

I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?

她说，没人比你更强。

And she's like, no one's better than you.

没人比你更强。

No one's better than you.

你会成为伟大的人，你知道的，你叫大卫，很多韩国人都是以圣经里的人命名的。

You're the bet you're gonna be the great you know, your name's David, like a lot of Koreans named after Bible.

她说，我给你取名大卫，是取自大卫王。

She's like, I named you after King David.

你会成为一个国王。

You're gonna be a king.

但现在回头想想，我想，是的，大卫王打败了歌利亚，但他也是一个性瘾者，饱受精神疾病困扰，还失败了很多次，你知道吗？

And I go, but now in hindsight, I'm like, and yes, King David beat Goliath, but he also was a sex addict and had a lot of mental illness and like failed a lot, you know?

她可没告诉我这些事，你知道吗？

She didn't tell me all that shit, you know?

所以她是在这样养育我。

So she's she's raising me.

她正在洗脑我。

She's brainwashing me.

就像说，你是最棒的。

It's like, you're the best.

你是最伟大的。

You're the greatest.

然后你知道，我遇到过其他艺术家，他们每个人都有自己的过去。

And then you you know, I've met other artists where it's like everyone had this has their own past.

有些人之所以变得伟大，是因为父母说：你一无是处。

Some become great because the parents are like, you're nothing.

你是个垃圾。

You're a piece of shit.

你是最差的。

You're the worst.

你知道吗？

I you know?

你觉得自己是什么东西？

The fuck do you think you are?

我恰恰相反。

I had the opposite.

我妈妈根本不在乎。

I had a mom just it didn't matter.

她根本不在乎，但妈妈，看看这有多糟糕，你却是最棒的。

It didn't matter like, but mom, look at how horrible it's like, you're the greatest.

所以到了某个时候，我开始讨厌自己。

And so it's like at some point, I I hate myself.

我对自己的评价低得可怕。

I have like a solo such a low self opinion on myself.

我就是对自己很沮丧，这个孩子一直被欺负，世界一直在利用我，而我心想，当然她会这么说。

I'm I'm just down on myself, just this kid, just constantly getting bullied and, like, the world just using me and and I and I'm like, of course, she says that.

她是我妈，你知道的？

She's my mom, you know?

但她就是洗脑了我，让我相信自己是最棒的。

Like, but she just brainwashed me into believing that I'm the best.

作为一个骗子和变形者，我知道大多数艺术家缺乏的是用语言表达的能力。

And I I would as a as a trickster and a shapeshifter, I would you know, what most artists lack is, like, an ability to communicate with words.

这就是为什么他们能成为如此出色的艺术家，能创作出伟大的音乐，因为他们无法——我也不行，你知道吗？

That's why they're such brilliant artists, and that's why they can make great music and all this because they can't I can't you know?

今天我可能会跟你聊上几个小时，但离开时还是会觉得自己被误解了。

Like, I'm gonna probably talk to you for you few hours today, I'm gonna leave here feeling misunderstood.

我会想：操。

I'm gonna be like, fuck.

因为我无法像在画作中那样，以同样的方式表达我的感受，这就像人们描述阿亚瓦斯卡之类的东西时那样。

Did I because I'm not in the same way I can, like, translate what I feel in a painting, it's very like, it's like when people describe, like, Ayahuasca or something.

他们试图去描述它。

They're, like, try to describe it.

但你试图找的那些词，根本不存在于你刚刚经历过的体验中。

And they're, the words that you're trying to look for don't exist for what you just went through.

所以这就是为什么我会变得特别自我苛责，但我觉得自己就像这个女人。

So that's kind of the why why I get really self judgmental, but I'm like this woman.

然后，你知道，我爸爸爱我，但他就是那样，还行吧。

And then, you know, my dad, he loves me, but he's like, he's alright.

他挺好的。

He's okay.

你知道吧？

You know?

我会看着我妈妈，她简直就是个冷酷的女商人。

And I'd watch my mom who was just like a brutal businesswoman.

你知道吗？

You know?

她会彻底转变。

And she would transform.

你知道，我们家，我们家，我们家，你知道，我大半辈子不是穷就是中产，富有是后来的事，所以我们经常领救济，我们的生意在洛杉矶暴乱中被烧毁了。

Know, we we we we we you know, I I spent most of my life either poor or middle class, you know, like being wealthy came later, but so, you know, we're on welfare a lot, our businesses burned down in LA riots.

我看到我父母经历了很多挣扎，你知道的。

Like, I saw my parents struggle a lot, you know.

但他们后来也做得不错，他们有赌徒心态，很多亚洲人都这样，我也有。

But then they would do good and they had the gamblers mentality, which a lot of Asians do and I I have that too.

什么意思？

Which is?

我不知道这是否属实，但我听说亚洲人，尤其是女性，比其他种族更容易有赌博基因。

Just I don't know if this is true, but I heard that Asians have the gambling gene more than other races, especially the women.

比如，大多数女性不像男性那样有赌博基因。

Like, most women don't have the gambling gene the same way men do.

所以我妈妈会赌，比如倒卖房产，不是在赌场，而是进行巨大的冒险，我就是在这种无所畏惧的女性环境中长大的，你

So my mom would gamble like flipping houses or like not in a casino, but like just huge like huge swings, which you're like I grew up in with a fearless woman, you

知道吗？

know?

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我们没什么东西。

But so we wouldn't have stuff.

但我会看着我妈妈打开汽车后备箱，戴上假珠宝，比如立方氧化锆，因为她马上要去开会，向别人要一大笔钱。

But then I would watch my mom open the trunk of her car and put on, like, fake jewelries, cubic zirconium, because she's about to go into a meeting and ask for a lot of money.

而且她一边撒谎，一边还是个虔诚的基督徒。

And just just insane lying and but hardcore Christian.

所以这种虚伪真是让人震惊。

So like the hypocrisy there.

我确实在努力摆脱这种模式。

Like, I'm definitely I'm trying to work on my own breaking out.

所以，我在这次采访中也会表现出虚伪。

So it's like, I'm gonna be hypocritical in this interview.

但最后，我希望自己能纠正任何夸大或谎言。

And at the end, hopefully, I'll be able to correct any exaggerations or lies.

但这是我新掌握的一种手段。

But that's a new tool that I have.

我以前总是为了故事随便编造，你知道的，为了讲真话而撒谎，诸如此类的事。

I used to just, you know, whatever for the story, you know, I lie to tell the truth, you know, all those things.

所以我看着我妈从一个穷困的女人转变模样。

So I'd watch my mom transform from like a poor woman.

她的想法是：我儿子是世界上最有才华的艺术家，而我呢，开着一辆车窗坏了的丰田掀背车，但当我走进这个会议时，你绝不会看到这些。

The mentality was she's like, my my son is the greatest artist in the world and, like, I'm, you know, I'm coming out of my Toyota hatchback with a broken window, you know, but I when I go into this meeting right now, you're not gonna see that.

于是她把自己变成了一个富有而有权势的女人，而他们就真的信了，我就坐在角落里，看着这个女人得到她想要的一切。

So she transformed herself into this rich, powerful woman, and they just, like, get like, I'm I'm just sitting there, a kid in the corner watching this woman get what she wants.

我当时心想：天哪。

I'm like, holy fuck.

那场表演到底是什么鬼东西？

What the fuck was that performance?

然后她出来后，我就说：妈妈，你刚才说的那些根本不是那样。

And then just coming out, I'm like, but mom, that's not like those things you said.

那不是真的。

That wasn't real.

那不是真的。

That's not true.

她就说，对啊。

And she's like, yeah.

他们不需要知道那些。

They don't need to know that.

我就说，但我们刚去过教堂，学了十诫，你不该撒谎。

And I'm like, but we just went to church and we learned the 10 commandments and you're not supposed to lie.

这让我感到非常困惑。

And this is like all this, like, confusion.

然后我遇到了肖恩·帕克，你知道的，他是个特别善良的小伙子。

And then I meet Sean Parker who, you know, just the sweetest kid.

你知道吗？

You know?

他一创办Napster就给我发邮件了。

Just he started emailing me right when he started Napster.

他说：‘我希望我能拥有所有的邮件。’

He goes, I wish I have all the emails.

我会保留某些邮件和语音留言，这纯粹是我的怀旧之情。

I keep I keep certain emails and voice messages, and I just I just that's my own nostalgia.

但我有一条霍华德·斯特恩的语音留言和一封手写信，他在信里感谢我让他爱上了水彩画。

But, like, I have a I have a voice mail and a handwritten letter from Howard Stern saying thank you for getting me into watercolors.

我当时想：天啊，我的偶像。

And I was like, dude, my fucking hero.

是的。

Like, yes.

那种感觉真的太棒了。

Like, it's such a good feeling.

我有一条皮威·赫尔曼的语音留言，稍后我会分享。

I have a voice message from Pee Wee Herman, which I'll share later.

我和肖恩·帕克的所有早期邮件我都保留着，因为他实在太有趣、太棒了。

And all my early emails with Sean Parker, I kept just because it was he's such an interesting, like, wonderful yeah.

我知道他的形象，虽然我们现在不像以前那样经常联系了，但我依然视他为朋友，并且永远感激他。

I know, like, the image of him, but, like, I I we don't talk, like, as like we used to, but I still consider him a friend and I'm over forever grateful to him.

但我遇见他的时候，我简直处于一种彻底的耻辱和羞愧之中，连我都说不清那是什么状态。

But so he I met him at a time when, like I mean, I don't even know how to I mean, like, just complete disgrace and shame to my family.

你知道吗？

You know?

这就像一个移民的故事。

It's like the immigrant story.

去问问任何移民。

Talk to any immigrant.

你他娘的为什么要离开家乡来另一个国家？

Why the fuck did you leave your home to come to another country?

因为那里太糟了。

Because it was shitty there.

就是这样。

That's it.

你不是生在那个国家，然后就想着，老兄，咱们走吧。

You're not born in a country and you're like, dude, let's leave.

对吧？

Right?

人们来这儿的唯一原因，就是因为原来的地方太糟了。

The only reason why anyone's here is because it was shitty where you were at.

对吧？

Right?

所以，不管你是亚裔还是墨西哥裔，都无所谓。

So then they all it doesn't matter if you're Asian or Mexican, whatever.

你来这儿是为了过更好的生活。

You came here for a better life.

那这意味着什么？

And what does that mean?

拼命工作。

Work your ass off.

所以我们生活在一个工作狂的国家。

So we're we're in a nation of workaholics.

对吧？

Right?

这是一个整个由工作狂组成的国家。

This is an entire country of workaholics.

所以我的父母，你知道，我没经历过，但他们说，日本的坦克开过街道。

So my parents, you know, I didn't go through it, but they're like, Japanese tanks rolled down the street.

而且，你知道，他们经历了典型的战争、饥荒，所有那些事情。

And, you know, they have the typical, like, fucking war, famine, all that stuff.

所以他们来到这里，在洛杉矶出生并长大。

So they get over here and, like, born and raised in Los Angeles.

你知道吗？

You know?

我根本不知道自己是谁，也不知道自己属于哪里，只是不断被欺凌、被抛弃、被虐待，我甚至都不太理解自杀这个概念，但我非常讨厌自己。

It's like, don't know who I am, don't know where I belong, just bullied, abandoned, abused over and over, and just I didn't even really know the concept of suicide, but I hated myself.

我觉得我根本无法活下去，仿佛身体内部在燃烧。

Like I couldn't live in my like it felt like I was burning inside my own body.

所以我甚至被取笑，因为我们品味音乐的方式一模一样。

And so even made fun of like like I listened to we we have the same taste in music.

我听Minutemen、Minor Threat，还有Downset、Inside Out、Soundgarden、Slaves and Bull，我以前会放Soundgarden、Slaves and Bulldozers，然后在房间里拳打自己，像个青少年一样，用尽全力打自己，只是为了进入一种狂暴状态。

I listened to Minutemen, Minor Threat, you know, I'm blasting Downset, Inside Out, Soundgarden, Slaves and Bull I used to put on Soundgarden, Slaves and Bulldozers, punch myself as like, just like, I'm in my room, a teenager, just punching myself as hard as I can just to, like, go into, a berserker rage.

那时候，我发现了色情内容，它真的让我感到无比平静。

And I and I just back then, like, I found pornography and it was just so soothing.

就像吸了毒一样。

Like, it was like getting high.

我一遍又一遍地自慰。

Like, I would just masturbate, like, over and over again.

我就像个自控大师，但我会做一些奇怪的自残行为，大概孩子们叫它‘边缘化’——我自慰却不射精，然后揍自己。

So I'm I'm like master but I I would do like weird self harm, I guess the kids call it edging, I get I'd masturbate but then not cum and then beat myself up.

我正在经历青春期，会出去偷东西，拿喷漆罐，比如去五金店之类的地方。

And I'm going through puberty, and I would go out and I'd shoplift, spray cans, like just at, you know, hardware stores.

我听着，比如《信仰无余》的《在色彩中生活》，就只是某一首歌，然后我的强迫症会反复重复里面的某句歌词。

And I'm listening to, you know, I'm I would get, like, a faith no more, like, in living colors, just, like, some song and I would just, like, an OCD would just repeat, like, some lyric in it.

我是个有耐心的男孩。

I am a patient boy.

我会进入一种恍惚状态，然后出去疯狂地喷漆。

And I would just, like, go into, like, a trance, and I would just go out and I would just fucking spray paint.

我住在家里，所以从不隐瞒这些事。

And I'm living at home, so I'm not hiding this shit.

我回到家，双手沾满了黑漆。

I come home, my hands covered in black paint.

我们辛辛苦苦来到这个国家，就是为了这个？

This is what we fucking came to this country for?

我们当初为什么要离开另一个国家？就为了让你来这儿当个废物？老兄，你真是个耻辱。

This is what why we we fucking left another country so you could come here and not be an ardent, but, dude, like, you're a disgrace.

你给我们种族丢脸了。

You're a disgrace to our race.

你知道吗？

You're you know?

我爸爸就会直接把我扔到墙上。

And my dad would just, like, fucking throw me against the wall.

我就说，我不在乎，哥们。

And I'm like, I don't care, dude.

我不在乎你是什么样子。

I don't care what you're like.

你明白吗？

Do you understand?

我并不是故意要自杀，但你明白吗？你所在乎的一切，我都不在乎。

Like, I wasn't like actively trying to kill myself, but I didn't like Do you understand that everything you care about?

我不在乎。

I don't care.

你懂吗？

Do you get that?

然后，你知道吧，节目一开始，我就在笑，因为心想，嘿。

And, like, you know, you start the show and I I I was laughing because it's like, hey.

我是安德鲁·休伯曼，科学家，斯坦福大学的。

I'm Andrew Huberman, scientist, Stanford.

这让我觉得，我才不在乎呢。

This is I'm like, I don't care.

我喜欢安迪。

Like, I I like I like Andy.

我喜欢那样。

Like, I like that.

你知道吗？

You know?

然后我想，你知道吗？

And then I was like, you know what?

这简直就是冒领功勋。

This is like a stolen valor.

肖恩·帕克和马克·扎克伯格一起创办了Facebook。

Sean Parker starting Facebook with Mark Zuckerberg.

你知道吗？

You know?

我在一开始就在那里。

I'm there at the beginning.

所以他把我拉了进来。

And so he brings me in.

当时，我刚加入的时候——那是很多年前了，我们来回发邮件。

And at the time, when I first this is years, the emails back and forth.

他说：我需要你，因为当时我散发出的能量，就是我现在跟你说的这种。

He's like, I need because the energy I was putting out at the time was what I'm telling you right now.

我真的不在乎。

Just I don't give a fuck.

你关心什么，我根本不关心。

I don't care what you care about.

我是说，我觉得这根本就不是完整的。

Like, I don't like it's just complete.

我不在乎会不会进监狱。

I don't care if I go to jail.

我只是在到处乱涂乱画。

I don't like I'm just painting on everything.

这就像是涂鸦。

And it's like graffiti.

涂鸦就是破坏公物。

Graffiti is vandal.

这不算艺术。

It's not a art.

这不是涂鸦艺术家或街头艺术。

It's not graffiti artist or street art.

这他妈就是破坏公物。

It's fucking vandalism.

这是一种犯罪。

It's a crime.

人们告诉我，任何在外面做街头艺术的人，都有很多规矩。

And people are telling me anyone out there doing street art, like, there's so many rules.

有那么多问题，比如你写了什么？

There's so many like, what did you write?

你以前贴过标签之类的吗？

Did you used to tag it or anything?

没有。

No.

但我从一首很棒的歌开始

But I did a good song from from

如果你滑滑板，你肯定有过，比如一个

If you skated, you definitely had, like, a

我们团队里有些孩子是Cubes？

There were some kids in our crew that Cubes?

没有。

No.

你涂了什么？

What did you tag?

别开玩笑了。

Come on.

没有。

No.

因为我有一些朋友是涂鸦者，他们把我们排挤在外了。

Because I had friends who were like graphers and they were they like boxed us out.

你知道的？

You know?

Under Shadows那群孩子

The Under Shadows kids

你从来没画过涂鸦？

You never did graffiti?

不过我们可以稍后再谈这个。

No, but we can talk about this later.

我想听听你的想法，但稍后我们应该聊聊孤儿和Under Shadows团体，这是湾区的一个群体。

I wanna hear from you But later we should talk about Orphan and the Undershadows crew, which is a which is a kind of a thing in the Bay Area.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

我认识他。

I know him.

嗯。

Yeah.

他曾经是我很好的朋友。

He was a good friend of mine.

但不管怎样，我没画过涂鸦。

But anyway, I didn't graffiti.

好的。

Okay.

所以，我画了我的砂纸图案。

So I But I drew I drew up my grip tape.

好吧。

Alright.

那很好。

That's that's good.

但不，我不是涂鸦者。

But no, I I wasn't a tagger.

我不是搞涂鸦的。

I wasn't graffiti guy.

嗯。

Yeah.

所以我当时在做那些事，你知道的，我们可以聊聊创意之类的话题。

So I'm out doing like that and, you know, like, you know, we can have like a conversation about creativity and this and that.

这就像，我很难说清楚，因为这就像，你能教会一种手艺吗？

And it's like, I can't it's it's very hard to talk about it's because it's like, can you teach a craft?

你能教会一种技能吗？

Can you teach a skill?

我能教你把它们画在Lisa上吗？

Can I teach you to paint them on a Lisa?

嗯。

Yeah.

我知道怎么做这些。

I know how to do all that.

我知道，比如我去上过学。

I know how to, like I went to school.

我是自学的。

Like, I taught myself.

我看过视频。

I watched videos.

你可以自学如何绘画，让作品看起来像那么回事。

Like, you could teach yourself how to paint something to make it look like something.

这是一种可以教授的技能。

That's a teachable skill.

但创造力，它从何而来？

But creativity, where does that come from?

你是天生就拥有它吗？

Are you just born with it?

它是来自匮乏吗？

Is it from deprivation?

你知道的，我只能分享我的经历。

It's a you know, I can only share what my path is.

就像那种尴尬的感觉。

And it's like the embarrassment.

你是亚裔。

Like, you're Asian.

你需要拿到4.0的绩点。

You need to get a four point o.

你需要进入加州大学洛杉矶分校。

You need to get into UCLA.

你需要成为医生或律师。

You need to be a doctor or lawyer.

而我呢，我是中间的孩子。

And it's like me, my I'm on the middle child.

我和我的两个兄弟，留着长发，听重金属和朋克音乐。

Me and my two brothers, like, long hair, listening to heavy metal and punk.

你们干嘛做这些白人的事？

Why are doing that white shit?

你知道的？

You know?

然后你还会看到一些亚洲孩子也喜欢重金属，对吧？

Like and then you've got Asian kids that are into heavy you know?

根本就没有身份认同。

It's, like, there's no identity.

对吧？

Right?

然后就只是，迷失了。

And then it's just, like, lost.

就是，他妈的，我们哪儿都不属于。

Just, like, what the fuck is you know, like, we don't belong anywhere.

媒体里对亚裔的描绘，就是那个长鸭 dong。

Just con like, the Asian depictions in media is, like, long duck dong.

亚裔男性阴茎小。

Asians have small dicks.

他们不会开车。

They can't drive.

他们数学好。

They're good at math.

就是什么都不好。

It's just nothing's good.

对吧？

Right?

我就在想，你知道的，我只是想在这世界上找到自己的路。

And I'm like, you know, I'm just trying to figure out my way in this world.

我记得肖恩只是被我那些小小的艺术创作吸引住了，只要我有点名气，就开始到处涂鸦。

And I and I remember Sean just was attracted to, like, whatever whatever little art I'd start getting some noticed and juxtaposed, and I was starting to do graffiti everywhere.

他就说，我也想要那样。

And and he's like, I I want that.

不管那是什么，我都想要。

Whatever that is, I want that.

我想成为其中一员。

Like, I wanna be part of that.

我说了，我都忘了那幅画是什么了，就是在我一幅画都卖不出去的时候，突然间它们就卖到了几千块。

And I said and I I forgot what my painting it was it was, like, right when I couldn't sell a painting, then all of a sudden, they were selling for a couple thousand.

他那时候还是个青少年。

And he's like and he was a teenager still.

他说：‘我想要你的艺术作品，但问题是，我现在正被起诉索赔一万亿美金，因为每首歌都涉及诉讼，你知道的，总之最后事情变成了那样。’

And he goes, my my I I want your art, but the problem is I'm being sued right now for a trillion dollars because every single song is a is a lawsuit, you know, I mean, whatever he it ended up the way it ended up.

但我记得他说：‘我正在被……’ 他给我看了个截图之类的。

But I remember he goes, I'm getting he showed me a screenshot or whatever.

他说：‘我现在正被起诉索赔一万亿美元，所以我实在买不起你的画，但我一定会得到它。’

He's like, I'm being sued for $1,000,000,000,000 right now, so I can't really afford your art, but, like, I'm gonna get it.

你知道吗？

You know?

于是我们开始了这段关系，他会发给我一些疯狂的、抽象的邮件，告诉我他想让我画什么。

So we we started this relationship, and he would send me these crazy, like, abstract texts of emails of what he wanted me to paint.

然后他创办了另一家公司叫Plaxo，他说，当时你还不知道，最后你终于在南湾抓住了我。

And then and then he started another company called Plaxo, and he's like, not knowing and then finally, you're catching me in the South Bay.

你知道，我遇到了这个女孩。

You know, I I met this girl.

我们相爱了，我搬到了圣何塞，那是个文化上最死气沉沉的地方。

We fell in love, and I moved to San Jose, just the most culturally dead place.

每个人都像在玩滑板，为苹果、MySpace、eBay或者某个科技初创公司工作，他们觉得我们很酷，因为我们有蹦床，有可以随便喝红牛、吃零食的厨房区，还有高低床。

And everyone's, like, rollerblading, working at Apple or MySpace or eBay or, you know, some some tech startup and they're like, we're cool because we have a trampoline and a you know, we have a, like, a kitchen area where you can have all the Red Bull and snacks you want, and we have bunk beds.

所以我们就可以一直工作下去。

So we and, like, that's also you could just keep working.

你知道吗？

You know?

于是我遇到了肖恩，他对我说：伙计，我们正在创办一家叫Facebook的公司。

And so I meet Sean, and he's like, dude, we're starting this company called Facebook.

而且，我们终于有点钱了，伙计，这太棒了，他问我：你现在在哪儿？

And, like, we finally have some money and, like, dude, this is and he's like, where are you at?

但他根本不知道，我刚刚从监狱出来。

And and he didn't know all this, but I had just gotten out of prison.

我曾因殴打一名便衣保安而被关押在日本的监狱里。

I was in jail in Japan because I had beaten up a undercover security guard.

我27岁的时候出狱了，欠了所有人钱。

I was 27 when I got and I owed everyone money.

我欠我女朋友钱。

I owed my girlfriend money.

我还欠别人钱，所以我急需钱。

I owed and so I needed money bad.

我当时陷入了很大的麻烦。

And I was in, like, a lot of trouble.

我不知道该怎么还大家的钱，因为卖画真的很难。

I, like, was I didn't know how how I was gonna pay everyone back because it's really hard to sell a painting.

你知道的？

You know?

但我的画偶尔还是会卖出去，而且价格开始变得挺贵了。

But my paintings did sell once in a while, and they were starting to get pretty expensive.

我在狱中画的所有作品，都是为《Vice》杂志做的。

And then all the art that I did in jail, I used to work for Vice Magazine.

我说工作，是因为我从来没拿到过报酬，但你知道，我

I say work because I never got paid, but you know I

他们没付你钱？

They didn't pay you?

不，我想，如果有人在听的话，做个小小的旁题，这听起来肯定像强迫症，比如我记着你们的账单，也许我确实这样，因为我从没主动想过，但前几天我坐着的时候突然想到，他们都欠我钱。

No, think people, if anyone's listening as a little side tangent is, and it's gonna definitely sound like OCD, like I'm keeping your list and maybe I am because I don't think about it, but I I was sitting the other day and I go they all owe me money.

所有我曾经为他们工作过的人。

Everyone I've ever worked for.

比如，人们，得像，有人掌握了某种技能。

Like, like, people, like, gotta get like, someone develops a skill.

比如，我擅长写歌，或者别的什么。

Like, I'm good at songwriting or or this or that.

然后他们就说，嗯，得像那些年轻人，像，嗯，这就是我的专长。

And then they go, well, gotta get like the young people's men, like, well, that's my craft.

我应该得到报酬。

I gotta get paid.

我说，我从来没拿到过报酬。

I go, I never got paid.

我为耐克、李维斯、Ruka、Giant Robot、Vice，甚至我朋友史蒂夫·奥基和88 Rising都工作过。

I work for Nike, Levi's, Ruka, Giant Robot, Vice, fucking even my friend Steve Aoki and like just all every like 88 Rising.

如果我坐在这儿，我能把所有人都列出来。

If I sit here, I'll name everyone.

但要么他们没付给我承诺的钱，要么我得威胁要杀了他们，他们才肯付，要么就根本没付给我。

But like either they didn't pay me my what they said or I had to threaten to kill them for them to send me or they just never paid me.

你知道吗，当我认识加文·麦金尼斯时，他刚创办Vice，他看过我在Giant Robot做的某些作品。

You know, when I met Gavin McInnis when he started Vice and he had seen some of the art that I did in Giant Robot.

他看到我去过刚果。

He saw that I went to The Congo.

他看到了，然后说，嘿。

He saw like and he's like, hey.

那会儿全是朋克风格的建议，就像那种大格式的风格。

And it was all punk rock advice when it was, like, the big format.

他跟我说，伙计。

And he's like, dude.

他就是相信我。

And he just believed in me.

我不知道他看到了什么。

I don't know what he saw.

他说，伙计，给我画一幅警察殴打这个的图，我就快速画了。

He's like, dude, send me a drawing of cops beating up this and and I and I did it fast.

我画完了，他说，我明天就要。

I did he's like, I need it by tomorrow.

我当时说，我能搞定。

And I was like, I can do it.

然后他就说，嘿。

And then he's like he just was like, hey.

给我写个故事，关于洛杉矶韩国城的帮派枪击事件。

Write me a story about some shooting in LA Koreatown gangster shit.

我说：但我不是啊，他却说：你就照做吧。

And I go, but I'm not he's like, just just do it.

在某个时刻，另一个让我妈妈产生共鸣的形象是：现实并不适用。

And at one point, that was another figure that resonated with my mom of like, reality doesn't apply.

我坐在那里想：等等，我不是记者啊。

I'm sitting there going, Wait, but I'm not a journalist.

我根本没有核实过任何事实。

I didn't fact check anything.

在《Vice》的一些期数里，我用一个女人的名字、一个黑人男子的名字——就是编造的名字——写了五篇不同的文章，只是为了填满版面；我还做过漫画版块、插图、音乐评论、街头时尚，还有那些该做和不该做的事。

And there were some issues of Vice where I wrote five different articles under a woman's name, a black guy's name, you know, like just made up names, articles just to fill up pages, and I would have done the comic section, illustrations, music review, street, you know, fashion, you know, the do's and don'ts.

我只是想：这真的可以吗？

And I'm just like, you can do that?

而且，因为我妈妈，我早就被培养成这样了。

And, like, I I had already been groomed for that because of my mom.

根本不是这样的。

It's like, no.

现实不适用。

Reality doesn't apply.

你就说我妈觉得我是最棒的艺术家，现在你知道吗？

You just my mom thinks I'm the best artist, now here's you know?

所以肖恩说，好吧。

So Sean's like, okay.

而我现在身处一种我觉得像是炼狱的地方，加利福尼亚的圣何塞和米尔皮塔斯。

And and so I'm I'm in what I feel is like purgatory, the 408 San Jose Milpitas.

我就想，这到底是什么鬼东西？

You know, I'm just like, what the fuck is this?

我一直在想，等我到了纽约，那就像金色大门，金色之路的终点，像《绿野仙踪》一样。

Like and I'm telling my I gotta get to when I get to New York, it's like this Golden Gate, like, end of the Golden Road, like, Wizard of Oz.

等我到了那里，就会有人发现我，然后有人会说，那到底是什么呢？

Like, when I get there, then someone's I'm gonna get discovered, and then someone's gonna be like and and because what is it?

你知道吗？

You know?

就像，人们会说，到底是什么？我会想，我其实可以是个愤世嫉俗的人。

Like, what like, people like, what is and I go, I am a like, I can be a hater.

我也可以是个充满爱意、温柔、无私的人。

I can be a loving, sweet, selfless person.

我可能会对自己变得极其苛刻、挑剔。

I could be like a very hard judgmental hater to myself.

所以我把这一切看得非常严肃。

And and so I take this so seriously.

就像，今天我们在这里所做的是在交谈。

Like, what we're doing here today is talking.

我的意思是，主要都是我在说。

I mean, it's mostly me talking.

我能看出来。

I could see that.

但就像我们在对话，不过我觉得，不夸张地说，这很重要。

But it's like we're having a conversation, but I think without sounding it's like, I I think it's important.