33 - 从成就到联结 | 如何在事业成功的同时不输掉生活

欢迎收听《影响力播客》。我是埃迪·威尔逊，将带你看见他人所不能见，在他人失败处创造机遇，推动你在空白处建立帝国。让我们携手启程，为世界带来改变。今天节目中，我要探讨一个深藏心底的话题——为何帝国建造者在家庭中会失败。此刻，我将向你袒露我犯过的最大错误。

Welcome to the Impact Podcast. I'm Eddie Wilson, here to help you visualize what others cannot see, create opportunities where others have failed, and push you to build empires where once there was empty space. Let's embark on this journey together and make a difference in this world. Today on the podcast, I'm gonna talk to you about something that's near and dear to my heart, and the topic is why empire builders fail at home. Let me talk to you about my greatest mistakes today.

我将极度坦诚地揭示自己犯过的错，分享过去两三年间促使我改变的反思。今天我们要聊些更情感化而非策略性的内容。往常我总谈策略：罗马帝国、拿破仑法典，或是如何创立和扩展事业。

I'm gonna get extremely vulnerable and help you see some of the mistakes I've made and some of the reflection that I've had over the past, let's say, two to three years to make some changes in my life. Right? And so I wanna talk to you about something that's a little bit more emotional today versus tactical. Usually, I go tactical. I talk to you about the Roman Empire, the Napoleonic Code, or, how to build your business or how to scale your business.

今天我们要探讨人际关系。坦白说，这恰是我的最弱项。当你意识到自己不擅长某件事时，承认这个事实往往是进步的第一步——而这本身就需要极大勇气。

Today, we're gonna talk about relationships. And just by way of introduction, in my opinion, it's the thing that I'm worst at. I have just come to this place. If you if if if you realize, like, that you're not good at something, oftentimes, first step to actually getting better at it is to admit it. And so for are a very hard thing.

我将解释其中缘由及其危害性。作为创业者，维持人际关系堪称世上最难之事。你是否对此感同身受：明明很喜欢某人，却半年未联系；当想联系时又因疏于维系关系而愧疚退缩？

And I'll explain to you why, and I'll explain to you how detrimental that can be. If you're an entrepreneur and you're a driven entrepreneur, I will tell you that one of the hardest things, there is on the planet is to maintain relationships. Tell me if this is familiar. You really like somebody, but you haven't talked to them in six months. And then you feel guilty because the next time you actually want to talk to them or pops into your head, you think, well, man, I shouldn't actually reach out because I haven't maintained a relationship.

或是面对亲友质问为何工作优先于他们？深夜辗转反侧时，常因事业投入过多却无人喝彩而愧疚。你有仰慕者却无真关系，有粉丝却无挚友，对吗？

Or you have people that ask you in your life why you don't put them first, why you work so much, why you put the business first. Oftentimes, you lay at night and you feel guilt over the fact that you've put so much into the growth or success of your business or your life, but you don't have a lot of people around you cheering you on. You have admirers, but not relationships. You have fans, but no friendships. Right?

这就是困于人际关系的创业者常态，我屡屡深陷其中。今天我将剖析自己最挣扎的三个领域，以及通过反思做出的改进——虽然尚未完全走出困境。

That's what it's like to be an entrepreneur who struggles in relationships, and I found myself there so many times. So today, we're gonna jump in. I'm gonna give you kind of the three areas that I really struggle with. And in self reflection, how I've spent time trying to improve this. I'm not out of the woods yet.

我仍在持续挣扎，这仍是需要刻意练习的课题。或许我的坦诚能帮到你：你可以将公司做到八位数估值，却在人际关系上一败涂地。

I still struggle with it. It's still very much a conscious effort for me. And maybe it'll help you by me being transparent today. So you can scale a company. You can sell it for 8 figures and still be completely bankrupt in your relationships.

这正是我的真实处境。首次退出公司时，我的人际关系已然破产。银行账户充盈，资产证明着身价——但当环顾四周评估人生价值时，却发现关系资产栏空空如也。

That's where I found myself. I found myself exiting company, for the very first time and bankrupt in my relationships. Having a bank account full of money, having assets that tell you that you're worth something or associating net worth with, your personal value. But looking around and realizing that if you actually had to value your life and the relationships you have, you're actually bankrupt. You don't have a lot of assets there.

坐拥实体资产，却无人际资产。今天我要分享创业者最常见的三大关系陷阱，以及我记录的修复方案——它们至少帮助我弥补了搞砸的时刻。首先要明确：商业世界清晰有序，可追踪衡量。

You have the physical assets and no relationship assets. Today, I'm gonna talk to you about the three biggest relationship traps I see in entrepreneurs like me and some of the fixes that I've written down that have saved me or at least helped me repair from the times that I have blown it. The first thing in kind of setting this idea is that business is clear. It's it's rhythmic. It's trackable.

对吧？商业对分析型思维者很简单，有明确目标、愿景和KPI关键指标。但人际关系不同，它们混乱而情绪化。

Right? Business is easy for someone who has a more analytical mind, someone who has clear, goals and vision and KPIs, key performance indicators. But relationships are not. Relationships are messy. They're emotional.

很多时候人际关系是没有固定结构的。你知道，建立深厚关系不是靠每周开一次胜利会议就能实现的，对吧？也不是靠一块砖头就能搞定，对吧？

Oftentimes relationships are unstructured. You know, you don't build a great relationship by having, a weekly win meeting. Right? Or having a brick. Right?

这些虽然都是好事，可以辅助关系发展。但往往，关系中最好的部分来自那些不受约束的时刻。那些自然发生的瞬间，那些纯粹真实不做作的时刻。正是这些时刻构建了极其深厚的关系。

Like those are all good things and can supplement a relationship. But oftentimes, the best part of a relationship is when you have those untethered moments. You have those unstructured moments. You have those moments where it's just authentic and it's real. And that is what builds a deep, deep relationship.

像你我这样的创始人，常常会本能追求可量化的东西，而非有意义的事物。我们总是陷入思考：我能测量什么？我成功了吗？过去我在人际关系中就会这样审视：我主动联系了多少次？

Founders like you and me often default to the measurable, not the meaningful. We often, dive into what can I measure? Do I have success? Right? I found myself in relationships in the past looking and saying, well, how many times did I touch base?

我有多少次放下手机进行深度对话？我竟然用这些可量化的标准来衡量关系的好坏。但我要告诉你，真正的人际关系往往不可量化。因为最重要的恰恰是那些未经设计的安静时刻。而对于你我这样的人来说，情感连接是无法假手于人的。

How many times did I put down my phone and have a meaningful conversation? And I was gauging success of the relationship off of making sure that I had something measurable. Can I tell you that relationships oftentimes are immeasurable? It's it's impossible to measure because the things that matter the most are those quiet moments that are unscripted. And then for people like you and I, you can't delegate connection.

对吧？就像我不能让行政助理去代我联系所有想结交的人。我的生活里有份'重点关注名单'，上面都是我想建立或维持关系的人。虽然可以让助理提醒我联系他们，但绝不能让她成为替代者。

Right? Like, can't, I can't have my executive assistant go connect with all the people that I want to. I have what's called a hot list in my, my life. And in that hot list are list of people that I wanna build a relationship with or I wanna maintain a relationship with. I can tell my EA to throw it on my calendar to remind me to make sure that I go, but I can't let her be the substitute.

所以道理很简单：我可以借助工具，但无法将情感连接外包。另一点是，你既不能委托他人建立连接，也无法自动化你的存在感。就像在商业中我喜欢自动化流程提升效率，但存在感是无法自动生成的。

So it makes sense. Like, I can give myself aids, but I can't necessarily delegate that connection. The other piece is is you can't delegate connection and you can't automate your presence. Right? Like, as much as I like in business automating things, creating more efficiencies and productivity, you can't automate presence.

存在感就是最本真的你。是你不加修饰的自我。这没有任何替代品。所以我想强调的第一点是：你要先认清这就是真实的你。承认我们都可以做得更好。

Presence is just you untethered. It's you authentic. And there's no substitute for it. So I, I think that one thing that, I wanna jump into is number one, I want you to first identify that that's you. Identify that that we all could do better.

有些人在人际关系方面真的很糟糕。我就属于这类。虽然正在改进，但确实不擅长。这不是我天生就能做好的事。

Some of us are really bad at relationships. Right? I'll put myself in that category. I'm working at it, but I'm not great at it. It's something that I don't naturally just do well.

有些人还算不错，但让事业追求阻碍了关系发展。也许今天听众中有少数人际关系高手。我要告诉不擅长的人一些识别特征和技巧，同时也要告诉擅长的人：人际关系不是五五开，而是双方都要百分百投入。

Some of us are decent at it, but we allow our business pursuits to get in the way. And then maybe a few on the podcast today are really great at relationships. And I'll tell you that the person who's not good, I'm gonna give you some identifiers, some helps, but also the person that is good at relationships. A relationship, and I've said this many times, is a 100% a 100%. A relationship is not fifty fifty.

我知道有时你无法百分百付出，但重要的是保持百分百投入的承诺。无论对方是否回报，都要坚持付出。所以如果你是人际关系高手，我想帮你理解我们这些不擅长者的困境，这样当你百分百付出时，就知道如何更好地与我们建立连接。明白了吗？

It's every person giving a 100%. I know that there are certain times where you don't have a 100% to give, but it's a commitment to give a 100%. It's a commitment to give whether or not the other person gives back. So if you're the person that's great at relationships, I want to help you give I want to help give you some insight into how those of us that are not greater relationships struggle so that as you give your 100%, you understand how to help us connect better. Okay.

这里有三个陷阱。最近我出去旅行了一次，只带上了我最小的儿子。我们一起度过了几天时光。我们去了。

So here are the three pitfalls. I, was recently on a trip. I took my son, out of town and just my youngest son. We went and spent a couple of days together. We, went.

我们骑自行车，去了海滩，做了各种事情。就是玩得很开心。但在那次旅行中，我也利用这段时间进行了一些反思。

We rode bikes. We did the beaches. We did all this stuff. Like, we just had a good time. But, on that trip, I used this kind of a little bit of a reflection time.

我读了几本书，写了一些东西。其中一个反思时刻是回顾并自我检视这段关系建设的过程。大约三年前，我意识到自己并不擅长经营关系。尽管我假装自己很擅长，确实有很多人愿意追随我。

I read a couple of books. I wrote some things. And one of the reflections that I, one of the moments of reflection that I had was just going back and doing a self checkup on this relationship process. About three years ago, I realized I'm not great at relationships. And, while I pretended that I was, I have a lot of people that will follow me into battle.

我建立了庞大的商业帝国，员工成千上万。因此我获得了人们的尊重，常常因为共同取得的成功而受到钦佩。但我缺乏深厚的人际关系。三年前当我回顾人生时，发现自己确实缺少真正深刻的人际连结。于是我开始尝试改变。

They're they're I've built really large businesses, thousands and thousands of people. So I have respect of people. Oft Oftentimes, I have admiration because of the success that we've been able to achieve together, but I don't have a lot of deep relationships. And about three years ago, I realized that as I look back around my life, I really am lacking the depth of relationship, true, true connection. And, in that, I began to, try to make some changes in my life.

所以上个月旅行时，我重新审视了这三个问题，并再次记录自己仍在哪些方面存在不足。让我回顾三年前写下的三点，这些正是我过去三年一直在练习改进的关系课题。第一点，准备好了吗？第一点：成就优先于连结。

So this, last month, I went on this trip and began to just go back over these three things and began to really make notes again of, like, where am I still missing? So let me just go back over the three things that I wrote down three years ago. And these are the three things that I've been practicing over the last three years trying to get better at relationships. Number one, you ready? Number one, achievement over connection.

这是我人生中的一个陷阱——总是把下一个成功或成就置于人际关系之上。回顾过去，我建立过一些牢固的关系，却因追逐新成就而任其淡化。我们没意识到的是，在追求成就的过程中，那些在奋斗中建立的重要关系往往被忽视了。

This is a pitfall that I have in my life is that I always elevate the next success or the achievement over the connection. If I go back in my life, I've built some strong connections, but I've let them wane because I then go on to the next achievement. What we don't realize is that in the pursuit of achievement, oftentimes there's great connections along that journey that are built in the fire. They're built, in the struggle. And so what happens is is that we then, allow that connection to dissipate and then we move on to the next achievement.

结果我们总是把成就看得比关系更重要。而实际上，我需要把人际关系置于成就之上。有趣的是，当我真正重视关系时，我的成就反而能继续保持。我在旅途中写下这样的话：

So we're always elevating achievement over the connection. What happens is in my life, I actually need to elevate the connection over the achievement. And oftentimes when I do elevate the connection, my achievements continue, on the same path. I'll make statements like this. And I wrote this one down, about, on my trip.

我决定从今以后不再说'他们会理解的，因为我是为他们做的'。想想看，我有三个儿子，我的一切努力本意都是为他们创造美好生活。但在追求成就时，我常常疏于陪伴，却仍声称是为他们奋斗。如果与他们的情感连结本身才是促进他们成长的关键呢？

I said, the one phrase I'm going to stop saying in my life is they will understand because I'm doing it for them. They'll understand because I'm doing it for them. Think about I've got three boys and, you know, everything in my mind and heart is to build a life for them. But in the pursuit of achievement, oftentimes I'll disconnect from them while still saying I'm doing it for them. Well, what if what if the connection with them is actually a greater catalyst for their growth rather than my achievements?

我坚信每个孩子都应该见证父母追逐梦想。我不认为应该放弃自己的梦想和抱负，这对孩子同样不利。但关键在于平衡——我的儿子们需要看到我追求可能和不可能的目标，

I do believe that every child deserves to watch their parents chase their dreams. I don't think that you should just discard your dreams and discard your aspirations. I think that that can be detrimental to your children as well. But it's a balance. It's a huge balance where my boys need to see me chasing the achievable, the unthinkable.

他们需要看到我的奋斗与坚持。但我不能因此忽视他们的情感状态、情感连结和感受，简单地说'这都是为他们做的'。某种程度上这也是为我自己。我必须非常非常清楚地认识到这一点。

They need to see me striving and pushing and and and going after something. But I also then can't discard their emotional state, their emotional connection, their emotional feeling and say, now I'm doing that for them. Partially I'm doing that for me. Right? And I need to be very, very, very, very specific about this.

我常常发现，由于缺乏真正的联结，我总在寻求他们的认可。我会说，看，这是我人生中取得的成就。但事实是，我的孩子们往往只需要我这个人。他们不在乎那些成就，真的不在乎。

Oftentimes I find myself, because I'm not connecting, I'm I'm having them validate me. I'll say, here's this win that I accomplished in my life. And in and the thing is is oftentimes my boys just wanted me. They didn't want the win. They didn't care.

他们不在乎我是否站在领奖台上，不在乎我带回家什么奖杯，不在乎我是否登上杂志封面，也不在乎播客是否进入前十。他们只想为你感到骄傲，而你也想给他们骄傲的理由。

They didn't care if I stood on a stage. They didn't care if I brought home an award. They didn't care if I was on the cover of a magazine or if the podcast is, you know, top 10. They they don't care. They they wanna be proud of you, and you wanna give them something to be proud of.

我们都想成为让孩子引以为豪的父母。但这需要平衡——比起你的成就和胜利，他们更需要的其实是你本人。你生命中每个人都是如此：既要给他们骄傲的资本，也别用成就替代情感联结。

You want to be the dad and I want to be the dad. You wanna be the mom that your child is proud of. But it's a balance because oftentimes more than they want your achievements, more than they want your wins, they actually just want you. And the way, every person in your life is the same. Give them something to be proud of, but don't substitute the win for connection.

对我来说，当陷入商业运作的节奏中时——正是这种节奏、持续性和可量化的指标给我带来成功——但这种节奏也会滋长关系中的懈怠。举个例子：

You know, for me, I I get into this, process of a rhythm of business. And when I get into the rhythm because the rhythm gives me success. The rhythm and the consistency and the measurables are what gives me success. And that rhythm is what breeds complacency in relationships. I found myself I'll give you an example.

三年前思考这个问题时，我听到最爱的演讲者之一杰西·伊茨勒谈到他与父亲相处的剩余时间。他说虽然深爱父亲，但若计算每年实际相处的天数，再对照父亲年龄与平均寿命...

Three years ago, I was thinking through this process and I heard Jesse Itzler, who's one of our one of my favorite speakers. Jesse is amazing. He talked, about the time that he had left with his dad. He said, you know, he loved his dad. He loved his father.

剩余的日子少得惊人。我开始认真思考：我每年与父亲相处总共不过四五天，圣诞节聚聚，偶尔年中联系。而我父亲已六十多岁，母亲也是——我们还能有多少相处时光？

And he said that, you know, if you break down the amount of days that you actually spend with your dad over the course of a year, he said, and then you look at your dad's age versus the average age of death, he said, the amount of days you have left are so small. I started thinking about that. You know, Like, I I really did. I would spend four or five, maybe six days a year total with my dad. Christmas, I'd spend time with him.

按平均寿命82岁计算，若每年相处4天...我这辈子可能只剩80到100天能与父母共度。突然意识到，原先每周或隔周打电话的节奏，远不能满足我真正渴望的亲子联结。

Maybe we catch up during the year sometimes. And it's like, and my dad in his sixties. Right? My mom in her sixties. How many days do you have left?

我不愿临终时才惊觉：把一生献给工作，却让那些最爱我、最支持我、与我羁绊最深的人成为牺牲品。所以第一个陷阱是：重成就轻联结。第二个陷阱则是：商业上清晰，沟通中混乱。

Multiply that times if the average age band's 82 years old and you spend four days a year. Right? It's like, well, man, do I have literally eighty days left, a hundred days left with my parents the rest of my life? Well, all of a sudden, that rhythm of like, well, I I try to give my mom and dad a call at least once a week or every other week to try to catch up with them. Like, that falls so short of the relationship and the connection I actually want with my parents.

我能把董事会管理得井井有条，却经营不好客厅里的关系。这很讽刺——我太容易陷入可量化指标的节奏。这在育儿中尤为关键：绝不能把商业成功的那套直接移植到儿子们身上。

I don't wanna exit this life and think, man, I gave my entire life to work when the people who love me the most, who support me the most, who have been in my life the most, who have the deepest connection with, then go by the wayside. So pitfall number one, achievement over connection. Number two, or the the second pitfall is clarity in business and confusion and communication. Clarity in business and confusion and communication. I run a boardroom really well, but I don't run a living room very well.

虽然结构很重要，但...

So it makes sense. Like, it's really easy for me to fall into the cadence of measurables. Right? This is really important when it comes to child rearing because what I can't do is substitute, what I do in business, what makes me successful into the life of my sons. Where, yes, structure's great.

节奏把握得很好。然而，我与儿子们最深刻的连接时刻往往发生在那些无法用KPI或量化标准衡量的情境中。比如：你整理房间了吗？体育表现好吗？投入足够的练习时间了吗？

Rhythm is good. However, the moments that I've connected with my sons the most are the ones that are outside of KPIs, measurables. Did you clean your room? Did you do good in sports? Did you put the practice time in?

你去上柔术课了吗？在车道上投了这么多罚球吗？做对了吗？这些都是可量化的指标。但这并不代表真正的连接。

Did you go to jujitsu? Did you shoot this many free throws in the driveway? Did you do right? Like, those are all the measurables. And that's not connection.

我能出色运营董事会，却不太擅长经营家庭生活。这是我另一个深刻挣扎的点——前几天出差时我记下了三件事。关于'成就优先于连接'这点，我写的第一条是：我要停止说'他们会明白我这么做是为了他们'，而是直接帮助他们理解我有多爱他们，彻底摒弃那种思维模式。

I run a boardroom really great, and I don't run a living room very well. I, here's another one that, I really struggle with that I wrote down. So I wrote three things down in each one of these categories, on my trip the other day. The first one I wrote down and when I talk about achievement over connection is I said, I'm gonna stop saying they'll understand I'm doing it for them. And I'm going to just help, them understand how much I love them and and avoid that whole concept.

我在旅途中记下的第二件事是：我将停止即兴处理需要深思熟虑的情感对话。你永远不会看到我在商业场合 unprepared（毫无准备）的样子。看，这是我的播客笔记。

The second, thing that I wrote down on my trip was that I'm gonna stop winging emotional conversations that require intentionality. Or stop winging emotional conversations that require intentionality. You will never find me walking into a boardroom, walking into a scenario in business where I don't I'm not prepared. Look. This is my notes on my podcast.

对吧？我每周都这样做。生活中每个环节我都准备充分，绝不会在重要事情上临时发挥。但面对生命中最珍贵的时刻——与所爱之人的情感对话时，我却总在即兴发挥。

Right? I do this every single week. I don't I'm I'm literally prepared in every element of my life. I I would never think about doing something important without being prepared. However, I walk in the most important moments of my life, emotional conversations with people that I love, and I wing it.

明知即将面临情感对话，我却放任自流。既不预演情绪，也不准备回应。就这样走进与青春期儿子的激烈对话中。

I know I'm gonna walk into an emotional conversation, and I just let it go. I don't prepare the emotions. I don't prepare my response. I I walk into heated conversations with my teenage boy or teenage son. Right?

我竟毫无准备地投入这些对话，不确保能达成理想结果。这是我记下的重要事项：停止明知是情感对话却即兴发挥，因为它们需要像对待其他重要事务那样的专注力和事前准备。现在我会在对话前做笔记。分享个小技巧——

And I walk into that without clear preparation to make sure there's success and the outcomes that I want. That's one of the big, things that I wrote down is I'm gonna stop walking into emotional conversations knowing they're gonna be emotional while winging it because they require intentionality. They require the preparation that I put into everything else in my life. I'm going to start taking notes before those conversations happen. So for me, here's a here's a quick tip.

我用红绿灯系统管理事务。我们的会议叫'红绿灯报告'，KPI也用红黄绿三色衡量。

I do use this element to help me. I think of everything in a stoplight. So if you look at our meetings, they're called stoplight reports. Our KPIs are measured through stoplights. That's red, yellow, green.

现在我内心也在用这个系统评估人际关系：是否真诚连接？是否用心陪伴？

Right? What I do in my head, and I'm constantly thinking through this, is I'm rating my relationships red, yellow, green. So I'll let a piece of the analytical side come through on this one. And I relationship based on have I, connected authentically? Have I spent time intentionally?

比如：我们进行的是深层对话还是流于表面？这就是我的人际关系KPI。

Right? Like, I had deeper conversations rather than just transactional conversations? I'm rating it. Right? These are my KPIs.

然后我问自己，我处于红色区域吗？黄色警告区？还是绿色安全区？我做得够好吗？

And then I'm saying, am I in the red? Am I in the yellow? Caution. Or am I in the green? Have I done it well?

这种想法一直萦绕着我，我也不确定。我就是这样编程自己的思维。多年来我始终如此。当我审视与儿子、父母、朋友和家人的关系时，我总在评估——这段关系处于红色警戒吗？

And I constantly have this and and I don't know. I'm just programming my mind in this way. And I've done this for a few years. And as I look at those relationships, I at those connections with my sons or my mom, my dad, with my friends, with my, family members. I look at it and I I associate, am I in the red?

是黄色预警还是绿色健康？因为归根结底，我不断鞭策自己确保所有关系都处于绿色状态——这本质上关乎真诚、高质量的相处和深度联结。所以我允许这种分析性思维存在，毕竟这就是我的本性。第三点。

Am I in the yellow or am I in the green? Because in the end, it's like I wanna constantly push myself to make sure I'm in the green and the relationships with people, which comes back to authenticity, true time, right, and connection. So I do allow that piece of the analytical to come in because in the in the end, that's still who I am. Number three. Number three.

最后一个陷阱：用使命替代在场感。我是个极度目标导向的人，总是追问'我们要达成什么'，以至于让使命凌驾一切。

Here's the last pitfall. Replacing presence with mission. I'm so mission oriented. I'm so like, well, what are we doing? And the mission trumps everything.

我常常允许自己为了保全使命，做出对关系和联结不利的选择。疫情期间我看完迈克尔·乔丹的纪录片，那时我正深陷这类关于人际关系的思考。那段难得的空闲让我有了深刻反思。

The mission I I give myself oftentimes permission to do, what is, not necessarily wrong, but wrong for the relationship and the connection in order to preserve the mission. I'm so mission focused. But what are we you know, like, I literally and I I I, I don't know about you, but I I listened to, the Michael Jordan, documentary during, COVID. And this was kind of the time frame of which I was going through a lot of these kind of relationship thoughts. And COVID was a great time for reflection and time where I didn't have as much going on.

观看《最后之舞》时，虽然乔丹的成就让我热血沸腾，但最终我意识到他牺牲了所有关系才登上巅峰。看完十集纪录片后，我不断思考：是否可能既取得同等成就，又保有珍贵的人际关系？片中揭示他为夺冠不惜与队友拳脚相向，后来他含泪承认'本不必如此'。

And, I watched The Last Dance, which is the Michael Jordan documentary. And while every part inside of me, gets inspired and pumped up by who he was and what he accomplished, realized was at the end, he had sacrificed all relationships to get to the top. My question after watching the nine episodes or 10 episodes or whatever it was, was is it possible to have the same success and still have relationships at the end? You know, you you listen to the stories about how on his quest for the championships, he's having physical altercations, fist fights. And he said this one time, he he he broke down in the documentary and he said, you know, you don't have to do it this way.

他说：'但这是我选择的路，最终也得到了想要的结果。'问题在于——这真是你想要的结局吗？用所有人际联结换来的冠军值得吗？如果有机会采访乔丹（当然这要求很奢侈）...

He said, but this is the way I chose. And in the end, it got me the result I wanted. And the question is, is that really the result you want? Do you want the championships without connection? You wonder if a Michael Jordan if I ever had the chance to interview Michael Jordan, the question I would ask him and by the way, that's a huge ask.

认识他的人请引荐我好吗？这绝对是我的遗愿清单项目。我真心想问他：'你赢得了六次总冠军，但愿意放弃其中一次来换取与周围人更深厚的关系吗？'

If somebody knows him, connect me. Right? This is that would be my that's my, that's my bucket list item. The question I would ask him, because I genuinely want to know for myself, was you won six championships. Right?

愿意放弃两个冠军来改善与子女的关系吗？（并非评价他现状）甚至放弃三个冠军来获得人生最真挚的友谊，让队友真正爱你——胜利真的重要到这种地步吗？

Would you have given up one to have deeper relationships with everybody around you? Would you would you have given up two to have a deeper relationship with your kids? Right? I don't know. I'm not saying he has a good or bad relation with his kids, but I'm just saying, would you have given up three championships to have the deepest friendships you've ever had in your life, to have your teammates, or was winning that important?

这就是我终日挣扎的问题。如今我已领悟到：我不想否定胜利的价值，但更不愿把'不惜代价取胜'作为人生信条。因为这种'以使命替代在场'的思维，让我总是优先考虑目标。有句我深爱的作家名言这样说...

That's the question I wrestle with all the time. And I think that I've gotten to this place in my life where I don't I don't wanna sabotage sabotage winning, winning, but but I I don't don't wanna wanna make winning at all cost the methodology. You know, because with this process of replacing presence with mission, I constantly put the mission in place. And, I read this quote, and, and it was by a great author. And I I I love it.

他说过，小心别让使命成为你的情妇。确保你不要用使命替代一切，把使命变成情妇。明白我的意思吗？就像你为了使命背叛所有关系那样。对吧？

It says he said, be careful not to make the mission your mistress. Make sure that you don't substitute the mission, and you now turn the mission into the mistress. You understand what I'm saying? Like the where you're cheating on all relationships because the mission is more important. Right?

想想这有多可怕。我想不出比不忠更糟糕的事了。对吧？因为这是背叛，会引发巨大冲突。

Like think about how horrible that is. I can't think of anything worse than, than, infidelity. Right? Because it's betrayal. It's it creates massive struggle.

它会滋生不安全感。这些都是严重问题。不忠对关系的破坏性极强。当我们创业者每天追逐使命而忽视所爱之人时，就是在经历不忠。对吧？

It creates insecurity. So all these huge issues. Infidelity is such a damaging thing in relationships. We have infidelity every day as entrepreneurs when we chase the mission over the people we love. Right?

或许你并未肉体出轨，但当你用使命取代陪伴时，就是在情感上背叛她。你从使命中获得的快感，本可通过深化关系来实现。所以我要问你：为确保不用使命替代陪伴，我制定了'遗产传递法则'——如果这件事在我的葬礼上无关紧要，就不该占据我的首要精力。

Like you may cheating on your wife in a physical sense, but oftentimes when you replace presence with mission, you're cheating on her in emotional sense. You're getting the same high that you that you you're trying that you could achieve through a deeper relationship. So, let me ask you this. And here's a here's a a thing that I have to do in order for me to make sure that I'm not replacing, my presence with mission is I call this the legacy transfer rule. If it wouldn't matter at my funeral, then it shouldn't get my first energy.

如果这件事在我的葬礼上无关紧要，就不该占据我的首要精力。今天有些我想创造的东西，那些具有使命感的、能影响他人的事物。

If it wouldn't matter at my funeral, then it shouldn't get my first energy. There are some things today that I want to create. Right? They're missional. My impact others thing.

比如想象我的葬礼时，我希望看到103个国家的代表站起来说：埃迪带来的使命帮助我们在马拉维、加纳或菲律宾喂养了5000名孤儿。这才是我值得投入的使命。对吧？

Like, when I think about my funeral, I would love to have you know, we're in a 103 countries. How cool would it be to have somebody, a representation from all 103 comp countries stand up and say, Eddie brought this or the mission that Eddie created, helped us feed 5,000 orphans in the country of Malawi or Ghana or The Philippines. Right? Like, how cool that that like, that is to me, that's the mission that is worth investing in. Right?

但我不希望银行家在葬礼上说'埃迪40岁到70岁财富增长了128%'。谁在乎这个？所以根据遗产传递法则，如果葬礼上不重要的事，就不能占用我的首要精力。

But I don't want my banker to stand up at my funeral and be like, you know, Eddie increased his wealth from age 40 to 70, you know, a 128%. Right? Like, who cares? Right? Like so therefore, in that legacy transfer rule, if it doesn't matter at my funeral, it can't get my first energy.

对吧？不能占用首要精力。这只是个经验法则。这次反思之旅我记下三件事：第一是停止说'他们会理解的'。

Right? It can't get my first energy. And that's just a rule of thumb. Now, the thing that I wrote down on this reflection trip, I told you I wrote down three things. The first thing I wrote down was stop saying they'll understand.

第二是停止随意对待需要用心经营的情感对话。第三是意识到——尤其对于需要我陪伴的儿子们——我常把家人当作缺席的借口。工作时我会来回切换说'得去陪孩子了'。

I'm doing it for them. The second thing I wrote down is is stop winging emotional conversations that require intentionality. And the third thing I wrote down is I said, that oftentimes, especially with my boys, who need my presence, I say my family becomes the excuse for my absence. Right? So in in the work, I'll I'll I'll kind of jump back and forth and I'll be like, okay.

于是暂停工作，但这其实是在心理上找借口贬低他们的重要性。举个例子，我坦白说：

So I gotta go do this with my kids. And so like I'll pause something at work versus the, reason for my boundaries. Mentally, I'll make an excuse because I'm diminishing who they are or what's going on. So it makes sense. Like here, I'll give you for instance, I'll be really transparent.

我会说，你知道的，我得走了，因为我11岁的孩子要上柔术课，我想去，你知道的，我会说，我必须，我得走了，我得走了，你知道的，要去参加他的柔术课或对练。这和说‘你知道吗？我的家庭优先’是不同的。所以每周三下午5点，我不会安排其他任何事情。这就是我的界限。

I'll say, you know, I gotta go because my eleven year old has jujitsu and I want to go, you know, and I'll say, I gotta be, I gotta go, I gotta go, you know, be there for his jujitsu class or his sparring. That's different than saying, you know what? My family comes first. And so every Wednesday at 5PM, I'm not scheduling anything else. That's just my boundary.

这和‘嘿，伙计们，5点了，我得走了，我得确保赶去参加Maddox的柔术训练’是不同的。这和我对我的助理说‘嘿，5点我就结束了，因为每周三只要我在城里，我都要去看Maddox的柔术对练’是不同的。

That's different versus, hey, guys, it's 05:00. I gotta go. I gotta make sure I get over to Maddox's jujitsu practice. That's different than me saying to my EA, hey, at 5PM, I'm done because every Wednesday on I'm in town. I'm going to watch Maddox, spar in jujitsu.

对吧？这是不同的心态。我意识到的是，我是在用关系作为借口，因为在我心里，我是把工作放在这边，关系放在那边。所以我得找个借口跨到这边来做那件事。其实不是这样的。

Right? Like, that's different mindset. And what I realized was I was using, I was using the relationships as an excuse because in my mind, what I was doing is I was putting work here and relationships here. And so I'd have to make an excuse to get over here in order to do that. It's like, no.

不。关系必须放在这边。所以这边必须有界限。如果有界限，它的作用就是把关系提升到其他一切之上。它提升了关系的地位。

No. Relationships have to go here. And so there has to be boundaries over here. And if there's boundaries, what it does is it elevates them above everything else. It elevates relationships.

对我来说，这是我在这个过程中最大的醒悟之一。让我给你一些东西。我已经告诉了你一些陷阱，但让我带你走完最后一部分。我把这个称为帝国心态转变。准备好了吗？

And to me, that was one of the big, you know, eye openers for me as I was going through this process. So let me give you some things. I gave you kind of the the pitfalls, but let me kind of walk you through, the last kind of piece of this. And I call this, I I titled this as I was writing out, kind of the content for this podcast is this is the empire mind shift mindset shift. You ready?

第一，你在构建的东西比生意更大。因此，你的生活必须比成就更宏大。遗产不在于你的净资产，而在于当你不在场时谁会提起你的名字，谁会出现在你的葬礼上谈论你产生的影响。

Number one, you're building something bigger than a business. Therefore, your life has to be bigger than achievements. Legacy isn't in your net worth. It's who speaks your name when you're not in the room. It's who shows up at your funeral and says and talks about the impact that you made.

真正的帝国建造者不会在影响力的祭坛上牺牲家庭。你知道这句话对我有多重要吗？因为我整个生命都与‘影响力’这个词紧密相连。这个播客叫‘影响力’，我的非营利组织叫‘影响他人’。让我再读一遍给你听，理解我所说的分量。

True empire builders don't sacrifice their family at the altar of impact. You know how important that statement is to me because my entire life is tied to the word impact. This podcast is called impact. My, my, nonprofit is called impact others. So I'll read that to you again and understand the weight of what I'm saying.

真正的帝国建造者不会在影响力的祭坛上牺牲家庭。真正的帝国建造者不会在影响力的祭坛上牺牲关系。最伟大的财富传承是情感的，而非财务的。当我们审视我们传递给关系或我们正在培养或指导的人的力量时，我能告诉你他们的情商远比财商或商业智慧重要吗？情商让我们能够吸收和成长。

True empire builders don't sacrifice their family at the altar of impact. True empire builders don't sacrifice relationships at the altar of impact. The greatest transfer of wealth is emotional, not financial. As we look at the strength we're passing on to the relationships or the people that we are, building or mentoring, can I tell you that their emotional intelligence is far more important than their financial intelligence or their business intelligence? Emotional intelligence allow us to absorb and grow.

商业智慧可以给我们一个天花板。财务智慧，天花板。情商让我们能够突破生活中的每一个天花板。这是我的行动号召。你现在因为觉得效率低下或不重要而在回避哪些对话？

Business intelligence can give us a, ceiling. Financial intelligence, ceiling. Emotional intelligence allows us to break through every ceiling in our life. Here's my call to action. What conversations are you avoiding right now because it feels inefficient or unimportant?

你知道你应该和周围的人进行哪些会促进联系、增进关系的对话，但因为效率低下或感觉时机不对，你一直在回避？这周留出一个小时。这也是对我自己说的。对吧？这是我自己的实践。

What conversations do you know that you should be having with the people around you that's gonna drive connection, drive relationship, but because it's inefficient or it's just doesn't feel like it's the right time, you're avoiding it. Block off an hour this week. This is I'm speaking to myself too. Right? This is my own practice.

本周预留一小时，专注当下而非追求效率。专注当下，而非效率。我在日程表上专门安排了这样的时间。我必须这么做。因为如果不这样，我会被其他事情淹没。

Block off an hour of this week to be present and not productive. Present, not productive. I have schedule I schedule time on my schedule. I have to. Because if not, I'll drown everything out.

对吧？这段时间我必须专注当下，而非追求效率。在这些时间段里，我不会坐着刷手机，不会盯着电子表格，也不会查看灯光报告。

Right? Where I have to be present, not productive. There are time frames where I'm not going to sit there and check my phone. I'm not going to sit there and look at spreadsheets. I'm not going to look at light reports.

我不会查看明天训练的数据，不会反复检查日程以求优化。我只想全然活在当下。问题是，这是我们这些充满干劲的创业者共同面临的难题。

I'm not gonna look at data for tomorrow's practice. I'm not gonna comb through my schedule to make sure I'm optimizing it. I'm just gonna be present. Here's the thing. This is a problem all of us driven entrepreneurs struggle with.

我想鼓励你迈出一步。和我一起迈出这一步。顺便说，这是整个社区的集体行动。明白吗？这不只是我在教导你们、指导你们。

And I want to encourage you to take a step. Take a step with me. And by the way, as a community. Right? Like, this is not just me teaching you, me mentoring you.

作为社区一员，那些加入我们的伙伴，那些听完所有播客的听众，那些在社交媒体上关注我的朋友，请监督我。我希望被监督的重点是：我是否真正活在身边人的当下？我欢迎你们督促我、指出我的问题。我也希望能坦然督促你们、指出你们的问题。希望大家能在这段旅程中互相帮助。

As a community, those of you that have jumped in with us, those of you that have listened to all these podcasts, those of you that are tied to me on social, hold accountable. The level of accountability I want is how present am I with the people in my life? I'm okay with you pushing me, calling me out. And I want to be okay with pushing you and calling you out. And I want you to help others along this journey.

如果你认识正在为此困扰的创业者，请把这期内容分享给他们。就此展开对话。互相监督。也请监督我。让我们共同践行。

If you know an entrepreneur today, you know somebody that struggles with this, send them this episode. Have conversations about this. Hold each other accountable. Hold me accountable. Let's do this together.

埃迪，我有个问题。之前你提到会自问'我是否真诚建立了联结？' 所以我想知道，是什么让埃迪·威尔逊感到与他人建立了联结？

A question I had, Eddie, earlier you mentioned a question you ask yourself is, have I connected authentically? So I wanted to ask you what does what helps Eddie Wilson feel connected to a person?

是的。通常我需要停止帮助别人才能真正感到联结。因为我们创业者往往习惯于付出，会建立这种'帮助他人即证明自我价值'的思维定式，但这未必能建立联结，反而可能制造依赖关系。讽刺的是，真正让我在交流中感到联结的，是允许对方帮助我。

Yeah. Usually, I have to discard helping somebody in order to feel connected. Because oftentimes, we as entrepreneurs are doers, people that provide, will create this, checkbox of validation in that if we help somebody, then it validates us, but it doesn't necessarily connect us because then we're creating almost a dependency. Here's the irony. What actually lets me feel more connected over that time period of exchange is letting them help me.

作为创业者，你们都想成为自力更生的人，不愿接受他人帮助。但深刻的联结恰恰来自相反的行为——允许他人进入我的生活提供帮助。即使对方给予的帮助并非我所需要或期待的，但这种开放的姿态很重要。

And as an entrepreneur, you wanna be self starter, you know, you wanna be a self starter, you wanna be self sufficient. So you don't wanna let anybody help you. But deep connection actually comes with the reverse. Allowing somebody into my life that can help me. Allowing somebody into my life that maybe they don't provide the help that I need or I want, but there's an open invitation to it.

我打个比方：我们的人际关系很像成人与孩童的互动。你有没有和孩子一起制作过什么？我有三个儿子，记得有次帮其中一个儿子改装汽车音响？他当时想安装新喇叭，我觉得这会是个有趣的亲子项目，对吧？

I say it's it's like this. I think that, so much of our, relationships you can see, in a child adult, interaction. Have you ever made something with your child? Like, have three boys and so, you know, I can, I remember, I was helping one of my sons with something on his car? He was, wanting to put in new speakers and so I said, well, that'd be fun, it'd be a project, right?

比如说，与其把车开到音响店让他们弄，不如我们自己动手。感觉会很有趣。于是我们拆下车门饰板，折腾了半天。结果我发现一个半小时过去了，他一直坐在那儿玩手机，活全是我在干。我就跟他开了个玩笑。

Like, instead of let's take it up to the, you know, stereo shop and have them do it, let's do it ourselves. Like, it'd be fun. So, we took the door panels off, we did all this stuff, you know. And what I realized was I was an hour and a half in and he was sitting there on his phone while I was doing all the work. And I said, I made a joke at, to him.

我说：'我原以为这是我们共同的项目，没想到是我一个人的活儿。'他回答说：'那样当然更好啦。'这时我才恍然大悟——原来在追求联结的过程中，真正主动的人是我。这本该是我们的共同项目，而不只是我帮他改装车载音响。

I said, I didn't realize this was a project that I had to do. I thought this is a project we're doing together. And he said, well, that would be great. Like and I realized like, oh, I'm the one that's actually in my pursuit of connecting, I thought, oh, we should do this project together versus me just helping him, you know, get his car up to a stereo shot.

然后任务目标就变得更重要了。

And then the mission became more important.

任务变成了'今晚必须搞定这个'。我们要给你打造最棒的音响系统。我们精心挑选喇叭，完成所有安装步骤。当我装第一个车门时——我这人特别有时间观念——心里默算着花了32分钟。

The mission became, well, we gotta finish this. Let's finish this tonight. Know, like, let's let's like, we gotta create the greatest sound system for you. And it's like, so, you know, we picked out the the right speakers and we did the whole thing and, you know, the door and all of a sudden it was like and then I I and I'm time driven. So, like, in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, putting the speaker in on this door, you know, took me thirty two minutes.

我就琢磨第二个车门能不能24分钟搞定。我脑子里总有个计时器。记得当时坐在第二个车门前，他就在旁边看着。我以为自己在教他，示范给他看，想着有天他或许能独立完成。

I wonder if I could do it in twenty four over here. Like, everything's a time clock in my head. And so I remember sitting there on the second door and, he was sitting there like, you know, and I and in my mind, I thought I'm teaching him. I'm showing him. I'm showing him how to do this.

直到他说'那样挺好'时，我才惊觉自己完全会错意了。于是我直接说：'要不你过来试试？'

Eventually, he someday maybe he's gonna do this. And then I realized I was like, when he said like, yeah, that'd be great. And I was like, oh, I missed this entire point. Right? Like, so I remember saying to him, actually, why don't you come over here and do it?

他很爽快地说：'好啊，教我怎么做。'结果耗时直接翻倍——毕竟他是第一次操作。我记得他不断问我问题。

And he was like, okay, show me what to do. And I remember sitting there and I remember it doubling the amount of time. Right? Because like it's the first time he's doing it. And, I remember him asking me questions.

看着他动手时，我突然有所触动。我们开始聊他的生活近况。仅仅是让他参与进来这件事本身——尽管多花了些时间——却创造了真正的联结时刻。工作中我们常因太专注目标，反而忽略了帮助他人成长才是更深层的连接。

And then I remember, watching him do it. And then it gave me pause and I was like, so, you know, I remember like all of a sudden now we're having conversations about his life, about what's happening. It's like, it was something about just letting him help. It was And I'd say it's like, that's the interaction. It's like and sometimes at work, we get so focused on the mission that we don't realize that helping somebody else find success or finding even though it takes a little bit more time is actually the true connection point.

我的真实在于不必事事亲为。允许他人进入我的空间共同完成，即便他们做得不如我完美——这种接纳反而能孕育联结。而这种联结远比结果重要得多。

My authenticity is showing that I don't have to do everything myself. When I allow someone else into my space to do it, even though they might do it perfectly and as good as I do it, it breeds connection. And that connection is way more important than the outcomes.

说得太好了。下一个问题——我们之前讨论过，我也观察到这个现象：我认为任何游戏、互动或任务，其实都能坚持到最后。

I love it. Next question. Something we've talked about before, something that's been brought up I've seen on things. I have a theory. Any game, any interaction, any mission you have, you can make it to the end.

是的。有两种方式。一种是搭建桥梁，一种是烧毁桥梁。

Yeah. One of two ways. And one is by building bridges and one is by burning bridges.

没错。

Yeah.

最终结果还是一样的。

At the end, the result's still the same.

是啊。

Yeah.

但其中一种似乎更优或

But one seems more optimal or

更好。我常思考，每一块钱都是好钱吗？你知道，我在信仰家庭长大，圣经上说，贪财是万恶之根。所以我总想，有些钱是邪恶的吗？还是有些钱是好的？我认为关键在于——

better. I constantly think, is every dollar a good dollar? You know, I grew up in a faith based home and, you know, biblically the phrase and the scripture says that, you know, that that money is the root of all evil or the love of money is the root of all evil. And so I think, you know, is some money evil or is some money good? And I I think that, you know, it comes down to this.

金钱只是工具。它不过是交换的副产品，可能是你的时间、你的价值的交换体现。所以要判断钱的好坏，必须回溯到交换的本质。

Money is a tool. Money is just the byproduct of an exchange. Money is the byproduct exchange of whatever it is. It could be your time, your value, money's just in it. So in order to determine whether the money is good or bad, you have to go back to what is the exchange.

很多富人通过烧毁桥梁、背后捅刀、踩着别人上位来实现价值交换。我认为那句话千真万确：你要么搭建桥梁创造联结，要么烧毁桥梁——结果可能相同。想想迈克尔·乔丹，他烧毁无数桥梁，但冠军戒指照样到手。

And many wealthy people have gotten the exchange of value or the exchange of goods based on burning a bridge, cutting someone else's throat, stepping on someone else that, it'll help them get to the next level. And I will say that I think that phrase is a 100% truthful. You're either going to build bridges and you're gonna create connection, or you're gonna burn these bridges and you're gonna you you could still have the same result. Think about it. It's like, you know, I I think about, you know, I think about Michael Jordan, and he burnt a lot of bridges, but he still has his championships.

再看看乔·蒙塔纳，公认的历史最伟大四分卫（不像某些密歇根出身的争议人物）。他让身边的杰里·莱斯等人都变得更好，凭借人际关系建设赢得超级碗。人们至今传颂他在战术会议上带给团队的轻松氛围。我宁愿选择这种方式，因为不愿临终时功成名就却无人分享——纵有亿万财富，孤独终老只因你烧毁了所有同行的桥梁。

You think about somebody like a Joe Montana, who arguably is the greatest quarterback of all time, because the other one that people talk about, he went to Michigan, and I would never agree to that. But Joe Montana, greatest quarterback of all time. If you look at the people that are tied to him, his relationship building, how, you know, Jerry Rice and these people that he he made everybody else successful around him. He has all these Super Bowls, and they talk about his levity in the in the huddle. And, you know, it's like, I'd much rather be that because I don't get to the end of my life and have all this success and have no one to share it with, no one to connect with, you can have all the money in the world and still be lonely.

这正是我们需要不断自省的重点：确保没有为换取成功而进行错误的交换。钱本身不分好坏？关键看你用什么来交换。

And that's because you burnt the bridges and there's no one else going with you. And so I think that's a constant check that we need to make in our own lives is to make sure that we are not exchanging the wrong thing for the success that we want. Right? All money good or bad? Well, it depends on what you exchanged it for.

我得出的结论是，我不需要把所有事情都规模化。并非所有事都值得规模化。如果我专注于最重要的领域，因为我已经有规模化的倾向，我就会把重要的事情规模化。对我来说，这就是作为建设者的伟大之处。你正在收听这个播客。

I have come to the conclusion that I don't need to scale everything. Not everything deserves scale. If I stay present where it matters the most, because I'm already inclined to scale, I'll scale the things that matter. To me, that's the the great you're a builder. You're listening to the podcast.

你是一名建设者。你将不得不建造一切。如果你在建设过程中保持专注，因为你是一名建设者，那么你就会建造重要的事物。我是一个擅长规模化的人。对吧？

You're a builder. And you'll have to build everything. If you stay present in the building process because you are a builder, then you'll build the things that matter. I'm a person who scales things. Right?

如果我活在当下，我就会把重要的事情规模化。因此，保持专注是确保我们这些帝国建设者不会在家庭中失败、不会在关系中失败，并最终避免这些陷阱的终极检验。非常感谢你成为播客的一部分并收听今天的节目。很乐意与你进一步联系，你可以在任何社交媒体平台上通过Eddie Wilson Official找到我。

And if I stay present in the moment, I'll scale the things that matter. And so staying present is the ultimate check to make sure that we as empire builders are not failing at home, failing in our relationship, and not ultimately hitting these pitfalls. Thanks so much for being a part of the podcast and for listening today. Love to connect with you further, and you can connect with me on social media at Eddie Wilson Official on any of the social media channels.