亮点：大卫·鲁宾斯坦

大家好，每周五我们都会推出这个播客的短版节目，记得收听哦。

Hi everybody, tune in to this short version of the podcast which we do every Friday.

完整版节目请每周三准时收听。

For the long version, tune in on Wednesdays.

大家好，欢迎来到《In Good Company》，今天和我一起的是大卫·鲁宾斯坦。

Hi everybody and welcome to In Good Company and today I'm here with David Rubenstein.

大卫是凯雷集团的创始人兼董事长，这是全球最大的私募股权公司之一。

David is the founder and chairman of the Carlyle Group, one of the biggest private equity firms.

他还主持《大卫·鲁宾斯坦秀》，采访商界等领域的杰出领袖。

And he also hosts the David Rubenstein show, where he interviews prominent leaders in business and so on.

今年早些时候，我很荣幸能参与你的节目。

And earlier this year, I had the pleasure of being on your show.

这其实有点像复仇时刻呢，大卫。

This is like revenge time, actually, David.

谢谢你的邀请。

Well, thank you for inviting me.

你在我的节目上表现得非常出色。

You were great on my show.

任何时候你想再来做客，请随时告诉我。

And any time you want to come back, please let me know.

你27岁时就担任白宫顾问了。

You were an adviser in the White House at age 27.

而现在你站在这里。

And now you're here.

从那以后你人生中的高光时刻有哪些？

Just what the highlights in your life since then?

我是指，简单说说。

I mean, briefly.

嗯，简单来说，我出身非常普通。

Well, briefly, I came from very modest stock.

我的父母连高中都没毕业。

My parents were not graduates of college or high school.

他们两人都从高中辍学了。

They both dropped out of high school.

他们结婚很早。

They were married young.

我是他们唯一的孩子。

I was their only child.

所以我是在蓝领环境中长大的。

So I grew up in a blue collar setting.

而且，你知道，如果你在那样的环境中长大，必须靠自己打拼。

And, you know, so if you grow up in that setting, have to make it on your own.

所以这也有好的一面。

So there's a plus about that.

我的孩子们拥有一些我当年没有的优势。

My own children have had some advantages that I didn't have.

但我年轻时只对政治和政府事务感兴趣。

But I, was only interested in politics and government at the time when I was young.

我对赚钱毫无兴趣。

I had no interest in making money.

在六十年代左右，那时还没有对冲基金、私募股权基金或科技初创企业。

In the days of of the nineteen sixties or so, there were no hedge funds, private equity funds, tech start ups.

那时没有亿万富翁，人们也不渴望成为亿万富翁。

There was no there were no billionaires, and you didn't aspire to be a billionaire.

而且我的家人都是犹太人。

And my family was Jewish.

如果你是犹太人且想从商，你会想继承家族生意，你的家族可能有生意。

If you were Jewish and you wanted to go into business, you wanted your family's business, your family might have a business.

如果你没有家族生意，你就会成为律师、医生或牙医，这就是我母亲对我的期望，

If you didn't have a family business, you became a lawyer or a doctor or a dentist, and that's what your mother or my mother aspired me to be, was the

然后成为律师了？

And became a lawyer?

我成为律师是因为我在理科方面不太擅长，而且我对政治感兴趣。

I became a lawyer because I wasn't that good in sciences, and I thought I was interested in politics.

当律师可以进入政界。

Being a lawyer, you could go into politics.

我的榜样是约翰·肯尼迪的顾问。

And my role model was John Kennedy's adviser.

约翰·肯尼迪是个魅力非凡的人，43岁就当上了美国总统。

John Kennedy was a charismatic person, became president of United States at 43.

但他的顾问、也是我的榜样是一个叫特德·索伦森的人，他曾是肯尼迪的演讲稿撰写人，31岁时就展现出卓越的才智。

But his role model his role adviser and my role model was a guy named Ted Sorenson, who had been his speech writer and great intellectual blood bank at the year '31.

31岁的特德·索伦森为肯尼迪撰写演讲稿。

So at 31, Ted Sorenson was writing the inaugural address and every other great speech that Kennedy gave.

我想我并非魅力非凡的人物。

And I thought, I'm not a charismatic figure.

我可能像特德·索伦森那样。

I don't make money, but I could be like Ted Sorensen.

所以我追随了他

So I attached myself

你在27岁时就成了泰德·索伦森那样的人物吗？

You became a Ted Sorensen when I was 27?

嗯，确实如此。

Well, did.

实际上，我当时还没有他那么显赫，因为他资历更深。

In fact, I wasn't as prominent as he had become because he was more senior.

但在27岁时，我确实成为了美国总统的国内政策副顾问。

But at 27, I did become deputy domestic policy adviser to president of The United States.

我并不胜任这份工作，但你知道，白宫职员里经常充斥着不够格的人，所以我确实得到了这份工作。

I wasn't qualified for the job, but, you know, White House staffs are often filled with people aren't qualified, so I did got the job.

没错。

Right.

但不幸的是，我把通胀率搞到了18九个百分点，没能持久，也没能连任。

But unfortunately, I got inflation to 18 or 19%, didn't last, didn't get reelected.

现在，你已经采访过世界上许多顶尖投资者了。

Now, you have interviewed many of the best investors in the world.

回到刚才的话题，你在这里说的是他们中许多人像你一样来自中产阶级背景。

And just coming back to that, what you say here is that many of them come from middle class backgrounds, just like you did.

为什么？为什么会这样？

Why why is that?

我认为在非常富裕家庭长大的人可能不会有那种饥饿感和驱动力，去经历学习成为真正优秀投资者必须承受的折磨。

Well, I think people that grow up in very wealthy families may not have quite the hunger and the drive to put yourself through the torture you have to do to learn how to be a really good investor.

投资是非常折磨人的行业，因为你经常会犯错。

And investing is a very torturous business because you're going be wrong a lot of times.

因此我认为许多真正优秀的投资者都来自中产阶级背景。

And so I think a lot of people who are really great investors came from middle class backgrounds.

他们往往有这些共同点。

They tend to have these things in common.

他们通常数学都相当不错，也许算不上数学天才，但在数学和算术方面相当出色。

They're pretty good at math, generally, not maybe a math superstar, but pretty good in math and arithmetic.

他们都具备一定程度的谦逊，因为当你交易或投资时，经常会遭遇亏损。

They have a certain degree of humility because when you're trading or you're investing, you're going lose money a fair bit.

你必须习惯这一点。

You have to get used to that.

他们还具备在发现问题后迅速决策退出的能力。

They also have the ability to make a decision to get out of something relatively shortly after they find out it's not going right.

换句话说，有些人自尊心过强，坚持认为自己的头寸是对的，市场是错的。

In other words, some people have egos that are so big they say this position is right, the market's wrong.

如果你总是持这种立场，很可能会频繁犯错，因为市场走势会与你的判断相悖。

If you have that position all the time, you're probably going to be wrong a lot because the market's going to go against you.

所以真正优秀的投资者会说：看，我犯错了，我要平掉这个头寸。

So really good investors say, look, I made a mistake, I'm getting out of this position.

此外，你必须懂得如何与人相处。

Also, you have to know how to get along with people.

我认为很多真正优秀的投资者都很擅长与人交往。

And I think a lot of investors who are really good get along with other people.

你需要激励人们愿意为你工作。

You have to motivate people to want to work for you.

你必须激励人们主动向你提供信息。

You have to motivate people to want to tell you information.

所以我认为与人相处是一个相当...你

And so I think getting along with people is a pretty Do you

觉得富人不太擅长与人相处吗？

think rich people are less good at getting along with people?

嗯，通常你越富有，自我就会越膨胀。

Well, richer you get, I think the bigger your ego usually gets.

当然，对一些谦逊的人来说并非总是如此。

Obviously, not always the case for some humble people.

沃伦·巴菲特就相当谦逊，同时也非常富有。

Warren Buffett is pretty humble, but also very wealthy.

但这只是个普遍规律。

But it's a general rule of thumb.

如果你想找低自尊的人，别在美国最富有或世界最富有的人群里找。

If you want to find people that are low ego, don't look for the richest people in The United States or the richest people in the world.

因为当你拥有大量财富，我指的是身价达到1000亿美元或更多时，你通常会认为自己相当聪明，比普通人更胜一筹，你的自我意识往往会膨胀。

Because when you get a lot of money, and I mean money but being worth $100,000,000,000 or more, you're generally going say, look, I'm pretty smart, and I'm smarter than the average person, and your ego tends to get bigger.

为什么优秀的投资者必须逆主流思维而行？

Why does a good investor have to go through have to go against conventional wisdom?

按照传统智慧行事，就意味着你在做和其他人一样的事情。

Well, conventional wisdom would if you did what conventional wisdom would be, you're doing what everybody else is doing.

如果你所做的和其他人完全相同，又怎能脱颖而出呢？

So if you do everything everybody else is doing, how are you going be ahead of the pack?

所以你必须做一些传统观念认为不正确的事情。

So you have to do something that conventional wisdom says is not the right thing to do.

因此最佳投资通常都是违背传统观念的。

And so the best investments generally are against conventional wisdom.

当然，传统观点认为当市场上涨时，人们会怎么做？

Of course, the conventional wisdom is when the market goes up, what do people do?

他们会跟风涌入。

They jump in.

当市场下跌时，人们会怎么做？

When the market's going down, what do they do?

他们会跳出来。

They jump out.

为什么这如此困难？

Why is it so difficult?

为什么违背传统观念如此困难？

Why is it so difficult to go against conventionalism?

因为通常人们希望被他人喜欢、被他人尊重。

Because generally, people want to be liked by other people, respected by other people.

如果你告诉别人你在做一件没人认为正确的事，我会说你很愚蠢，而没人喜欢被说愚蠢。

And if you tell people you're doing something nobody else thinks is a good idea, I'm going to tell you're stupid, and nobody likes to be told you're stupid.

你从27岁起就与历任美国总统保持联系，持续了五十年。

You kept in touch with all the American presidents since you were 27 years old, so for fifty years.

与总统保持联系的关键是什么？

What's the key to keeping in touch with the presidents?

我与某些总统的交情比其他人更深，你知道，我乐在其中，我想是因为我一直对总统职位心怀敬仰，渴望亲近它。

I know some presidents better than others, and you know, I enjoy it, I guess, because I've always admired the presidency and wanted to be around it.

这就是我在白宫工作的原因。

That's why I worked in the White House.

因此我对了解总统们有着特殊兴趣，或许还喜欢在白宫附近活动，或是从事一些保存美国历史的工作，特别是白宫的历史。

So I've had a special interest in knowing presidents and maybe hanging around the White House or doing things that preserve American history, and particularly White House history.

总统们有什么共同点？

What do presidents have in common?

总统们的共同点是都有雄心壮志。

Presidents have in common ambition.

也有些总统并非出于野心而当上总统的。

There are some presidents who became presidents without ambition to be so.

很久以前的卡尔文·柯立芝，其实并不真正想当总统。

Calvin Coolidge, a long time ago, really didn't really want to be president.

但一般来说，要记住，要成为美国总统，你必须经历大约两年左右极其艰难的过程，从初选开始，一步步往上走，赢得初选和大选。

But generally, remember, to be president of The United States, you have to put yourself through a hellacious process for roughly two years or so to kind of go from a primary, work your way up, win the primaries in the general election.

这是个非常复杂的过程。

It's a very complicated process.

你得问，他们为什么要这么做？

And you have to say, why do they want to do that?

因为他们有野心，渴望权力。

Because they want to they're ambitious.

这就是他们的职业。

This is their profession.

在政治领域，职业的巅峰就是总统之位。

Politics, the top of the profession is the presidency.

但仔细想想。

But think about it.

约翰·肯尼迪遇刺身亡。

John Kennedy was assassinated.

林登·约翰逊被迫下台。

Linda Johnson, driven out of office.

理查德·尼克松，被迫下台。

Richard Nixon, driven out of office.

杰拉尔德·福特未能连任。

Gerald Ford couldn't get reelected.

杰米·卡特未能连任。

Jeremy Carter couldn't get reelected.

罗纳德·里根差点遇刺。

Ronald Reagan almost was assassinated.

乔治·赫伯特·沃克·布什未能连任。

George Herbert Walker Bush couldn't get reelected.

所以你会问自己，为什么这些人想要这个职位？

And so you say yourself, why do these people want this thing?

你可能会被暗杀，或者几乎被暗杀，或者卷入丑闻，或者差点被弹劾。

You might be getting assassinated or maybe assassinated or you have a scandal or you're almost impeached.

我是说，唐纳德·特朗普被弹劾了两次。

I mean, Donald Trump was impeached twice.

比尔·克林顿曾被弹劾过一次。

Bill Clinton was impeached once.

那为什么人们会想要这份如此艰难的工作？

So why do people want this job where it's so difficult?

因为在政治世界的图腾柱顶端就是当总统，所以人们都想登上顶峰。

That's because at the top of the totem pole in the politics world is being president, and so people want to be at the top.

你的幽默更偏向英式而非美式，对吗？

Your humor is more English than American, right?

人们说我有着一种冷幽默。

I have what people call a dry sense of humor.

是啊，而且你穿着细条纹衣服，所以整体风格有点英伦范儿，对吧？

Yeah, and also it strikes me because you have pinstripe, so it's a bit English, the whole thing, right?

我有种冷幽默感，而且有些——它——这种幽默感从何而来？

I have a dry sense of humor, and some, it goes- Where does

这种幽默感从何而来？

that come from?

你知道，这可能是一种自嘲的风格，我不太确定，但我给你举个例子。

You know, it may be a self deprecating style, I'm not quite sure, but I'll give you an example.

我有一次采访比尔·盖茨，我认识比尔有一段时间了，但我不认为我和他很熟。

I interviewed Bill Gates one time, and I've known Bill for a while, but I wouldn't say I'm not close to him.

我记得是在我的彭博节目上采访他，那可能是我最早做的几期节目之一。

I interviewed him one time for my Bloomberg show I think it was maybe one of the first ones I was doing.

我去了他的私人办公室。

And I went to his personal office.

我说，比尔，告诉我。

And I said, Bill, tell me this.

如果你有大学学位，你觉得你的人生会更成功吗？

If you had a college degree, you think you could have been more successful in life.

结果他完全没听懂这个笑话。

Well, it went right over his head.

他并没有...他们给出了一个严肃的回答。

He didn't he didn't they gave a serious answer.

后来有一次我在观众面前采访他时又问了这个问题，观众笑了，他才明白这是个幽默的问题。

When I gave that question to him another time I interviewed him in front of an audience, the audience laughed, and then he got the picture that it was a humorous thing.

所以有时候人们缺乏幽默感，如果你问他们一个冷幽默的问题，他们可能理解不了。

So sometimes people don't have senses of humor, and if you ask them a dry sense of humor kind of question, they won't get it.

不过，你知道的，我在一大群观众面前采访过杰夫·贝佐斯，问了他幽默的问题。

But, you know, Jeff Bezos, I interviewed him in front of a large audience, and I asked him humorous questions.

他理解了其中的幽默。

He got the point.

但我喜欢在观众面前采访别人，原因是我可以借助观众的反应来调节氛围。

But I like interviewing people in front of an audience, and the reason I like to do it is because the audience reaction is something I can play off.

我发现如果观众笑了，效果会很好，而且也能让被采访者放松下来。

If people laugh, that's good, and it also loosens up the person you're interviewing, I've found.

另外，我喜欢让人开心。在采访中，我通常会运用相当多的幽默，让人们享受这个过程。

And also, I like to make people happy, And when I'm interviewing people, I can make people enjoy it because I tend to use a fair amount of humor.

通过这种幽默方式，人们可能不会记住所有细节内容。

And by the humor, people kind of they might not remember the subset of things.

他们总是走过来对我说，那件事真有趣，或者说那句话真逗。

They always come up to me and say, That was a funny thing, or That was a funny line.

我想我只是比较擅长把握这种分寸吧。

And I just have a good sense of how to do that, I guess.

我们来谈谈价值观吧。

Let's talk a bit about values.

为什么谦逊是一种重要的美德？

Why is humility an important virtue?

我重视谦逊，因为我认为傲慢作为谦逊的反面，并不是一种讨人喜欢的特质。

Well, I value humility because I think that arrogance, the opposite of humility, is something that is not an endearing trait.

对我来说，我最钦佩的领导者都是谦逊的人。

And, to me, the leaders that I most admire are people that are humble.

亚伯拉罕·林肯打赢了南北战争。

Abraham Lincoln won the Civil War.

你能想象亚伯拉罕·林肯在白宫四处走动时说，嘿，我刚打赢了南北战争吗？

Can you imagine Abraham Lincoln walking around the White House saying, hey, I just won the Civil War.

是啊。

Yeah.

我挺了不起的，对吧？

I'm pretty impressive, aren't I?

或者你能想象他签署废除奴隶制的行政命令《解放宣言》时，高举着文件四处炫耀让所有人都看到亚伯拉罕·林肯的样子吗？

Or can you see him signing the executive to the executive order that outlawed slavery, the Emancipation Proclamation, and holding it up and going like this so everybody could see Abraham Lincoln?

你无法想象那种场景。

You can't picture that.

他是个谦逊的人，我认为谦逊是真正的美德。

He was a humble man, and I think humility is is a real virtue.

当然，也存在虚假的谦逊。

Now, there is false humility, of course.

人们假装谦虚，却又不断告诉你他们有多伟大。

People pretend they're humble, but then they tell you how great they are.

但我认为谦逊是值得拥有的美德，而且你知道，我尽量保持谦逊。

But I think humility is something that is a good virtue to have, and, you know, I try to be as humble as I can.

我并非要过分自夸，但显然在这方面我也并非完美无缺。

I'm not trying to brag about myself unduly, but obviously I'm not perfect in this regard.

我会在建筑物上署名，比如如果我为一所大学建筑出资，就会在上面刻我的名字。

I put my name on buildings, so if I put up money for a university building, I put my name on it.

我这样做的原因是想向人们展示——特别是在华盛顿特区——那些刻有我名字的建筑，

And the reason I do that is I try to show people, and particularly in Washington, D.

证明一个出身贫寒的人也能崛起，通过捐款为国家或大学做些有益的事，这大概也能帮助他人。

C, where my name was on something, that somebody can come from a poor background, can rise up, and they can do something useful for the country or university by giving money that helps other people, presumably.

因此我经常在资助的建筑上署名，以此助力项目启动。

And so that's why I often put my name on buildings if I give them money to help a building get off the ground.

你经常谈论历史，也对历史充满兴趣。为什么你对历史如此着迷？

You talk a lot about history, and you have a lot of historical Why are you so interested in history?

我认为历史能让人了解过去的错误。

My view is that history is something that teaches you about the mistakes of the past.

研究历史的意义在于：通过了解过去，你能领悟未来应该践行哪些善举、规避哪些恶行。

And the theory behind studying history is that if you learn about the past, you learn about the good things that you should do in the future and the bad things you should avoid.

因此我认为人们具备历史感非常重要。

And so I think it's very important for people to have a sense of history.

而且我认为美国总统尤其应该具备历史感，组织领导者也是如此，因为要知道，人们多年来犯过不少错误。

And I think presidents of The United States particularly should have a sense of history too, or leaders of organizations, because, know, people have made mistakes over the years.

如果你要犯同样的错误，多了解历史就能避免重蹈覆辙。

And if you're going to make the same mistakes, you can avoid them if you learn about history a bit more.