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大家好，欢迎收听本周的《名利场》娱乐与流行文化播客——‘焦点人物’的7月4日特辑。
Hello, and welcome to this week's July 4 edition of In the Limelight, Vanity Fair's entertainment and pop culture podcast.
我是乔什·杜布夫，《名利场》的高级撰稿人。
I'm Josh Dubuff, Vanity Fair's senior writer.
几个月前，朱莉和我有幸与《杀死伊芙》中表现出色的明星朱迪·科默进行了对话。
A few months ago, Julie and I had the chance to talk to Jodie Comer, the incredible star of Killing Eve.
她在剧中饰演薇拉内尔。
She plays Villanelle.
我们采访她时剧集才刚刚开播，所以觉得现在是重播那次访谈的好时机，因为希望到现在大家都有机会追完这一季了。
The season had just started when we talked to her, so we thought now would be a good time to share that interview again since hopefully at this point we've all had the chance to finish the season.
如果你还没看完，这个长周末正是享受的好机会。
And if you haven't, this long weekend is the perfect chance to enjoy.
所以我们非常激动今天能请到《杀死伊芙》的朱迪·科默。
So we're so excited to have Jodi Comer on today from Killing Eve.
朱莉和我都是这部剧的超级粉丝，尤其喜欢你第二季的表演。
We're both huge fans, Julie and I, of the show and of your performance on the show, season two.
我已经看了前两集。
I've seen the first two episodes.
我想，朱莉，你已经看了第二季的第一集。
I think, Julie, you've seen the first one from season two.
是的。
Yes.
你
Did you
喜欢他们吗？
like them?
天啊。
Oh, my god.
我是不是喜欢？我当时非常沮丧，因为没法立刻继续看第三集。
Did I like I was, like, so upset that I can't continue to now go on to see the episode three.
我觉得这部剧真的——我是说，第一季也是这样，很明显，它结束时你立刻就想知道后续。
I feel like this show is so I mean, it's like just season one was the same way, obviously, where it just it ends and you're, like, immediately needing to know.
我觉得每一集都结束在那种扣人心弦的时刻，你知道的。
I feel like they each end on such cliffhanger moment kind of, you know.
是的。
Yeah.
他们在策划这方面非常巧妙，但这很好。
They're very clever in the way that they they plan that out, but that's good.
这是个好迹象。
That's a good sign.
你看完了第二季的所有剧集吗？
Have you seen all the episodes of season two?
或者你什么时候会看自己演的作品？
Or how when do you do you watch yourself?
我知道女演员们对此有不同的感受。
I know actresses have different feelings about this.
我会看的。
I do.
是的。
Yep.
我会看。
I do.
纯粹是因为我觉得有时候看是有帮助的，因为你能发现一些更像是朱迪的习惯而非角色习惯。
Purely because I do think it is helpful sometimes to because I think you can pick up habits that are more Jodi habits than character habits.
所以看看挺好的。
So it's good to just see it.
而且也要看看其他人的表演，你知道，当你拍摄自己的场景时，你是看不到的。
And also look at everyone else's work, you know, when you're doing your own scenes, you don't get to see.
剧集里发生了什么，以及其他剧情线的发展。
What's going on in the show and the other is plot lines.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我为此会看，但我会自己看，你知道，透过指缝偷偷看。
So I do for that reason, but I I I would watch it on my own, you know, through through my fingers.
到目前为止，我已经看了前四集。
I've I've seen the first four episodes so far.
嗯。
Yeah.
前四集。
First four.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
所以你还有很多集没看呢。
So you still have a lot a few episodes to see as well.
我每天都给他们发邮件，说：嗨。
I'm like, I email them every day like, hello.
第五和第六集出来了吗？
Do we have five and six yet?
但，是啊，他们还在
But, yeah, they're still still Are
你的家人和朋友是不是总想从你这儿打探消息，比如剧情什么的
your family and friends just constantly trying to get like information from you about like what's
剧本就在那儿，如果你想看的话可以读一读
scripts there if you wanna if you wanna read them.
然后他就说，不行
And he's like, no.
不行
No.
不。
No.
我会等到它出来。
I'll I'll wait till it comes out.
所以，是的，人们通常都洗得很干净。
So, yeah, people are generally very well bathed.
不过我很好奇，考虑到薇拉内尔在剧中的所作所为，亲爱的家人朋友们，看到你的角色做的那些事会不会让他们感到震惊？
I'm curious though if considering what Villanelle gets up to on the show, dear family and friends, is it ever like shocking for them to see the stuff your character is doing?
他们是不是，我的意思是，看到你杀人、做那些你显然会做的事情，对认识你的人来说一定挺有意思的吧。
Are they, like I I mean, I must be kind of to see you killing people, doing the stuff that, obviously, you get up to, it must be kind of interesting for people to know you.
对吧？
Right?
我记得我学校的朋友们总是问，你为什么总是演这些人？
I remember my friends at school were always, why do you always play these people?
就像，从来都不是那种一本正经的角色。
Like, it's never like a straight laced person.
总有些疯狂或奇怪的事情发生。
There's always something kinda crazy or or weird going on.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得肯定有些时刻，我爸会在客厅那头给我一个眼神，好像在问‘这都从哪儿来的？’
And I think there are definite moments where my dad just gives me a look across the living room and he's like, where does this come from?
但他们真的很喜欢，尤其是因为我觉得维拉内拉这个角色本身和她独特的存在方式非常出彩，而且这部剧本身，就像你说的，非常独特。
But they really enjoy it, you know, especially because I think Villanelle is kind of so standout in her own way of just who she is and and the show itself, you know, like you say, is is so unique.
这让人们能够真正获得很多乐趣并享受其中，就是那种...是的。
It allows people to just really have so much fun and enjoy it and just kind yeah.
就是享受它。
Of Just enjoy it.
第一次见到你的人会害怕你吗？因为你的角色很吓人，和你交谈会让人感到意外。
Are people who meet you for the first time scared of you because your your character is frightening and it's it's surprising to talk to you.
我的意思是，我理解表演是怎么一回事，但你是如此亲切。
Like, I understand how acting works, obviously, but you're so sweet.
有些人会有点谨慎，但我觉得世界上大多数人还是能分清电视和现实生活的，尽管有些人很明显……有时候我确实会注意到有人隔着房间看我，好像在说‘是她吗？’
People are some people are a little bit cautious but then, I mean, I like to think that the majority of the world can make the separation of TV and and real life, although some people very like, So very clearly people sometimes will usually I will just notice that someone's maybe giving me like a look across the room as if to say, is it her?
不过确实。
But yeah.
我认为大多数人还是能够区分开的。
I think mostly people can make can make the separation.
只是在片场扮演那种精神病态的角色而已。
Just to channel that sort of like psychopath on set.
你是怎么到达那里的？
Do you where where do you how do you get there?
有音乐吗？
Is there music?
你有没有类似精神导师这样的东西？
Do you have like like a spiritual, like, guide?
或者你是怎么找到那个通道的？
Or like, how do you like how do you find that channel that?
我希望我真有一个精神导师。
I wish I did have a spiritual guide.
我该怎么得到一个？
How can I get one of them?
你能买一个吗？
Can you buy one
一个？
of them?
嗯。
Yeah.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我觉得这很棘手，因为每一天都是完全不同的体验，有时触及某些情绪会非常容易，甚至让人惊讶。
I think it's tricky because with each day is a completely different experience, like kind of accessing certain emotions sometimes comes very easily and can be quite surprising.
你会想，哇，我这情绪是从哪儿来的？
You're like, woah, where did I get that from?
这种情绪究竟藏在我内心的哪个地方？
Like, where is that kind of sitting within myself?
但其他日子，就会困难得多。
And then other days, it's a lot more difficult.
我尽量让一切顺其自然。
I try to leave a lot to the moment.
嗯。
Yeah.
你知道，我对于如何演绎角色有自己的想法和直觉，我熟悉台词，但我确实很享受与导演合作的经历，他们可能会有不同的想法，或者与我诠释的方式完全不同。
You know, I have my ideas and my instincts about how I wanna play things, I know my lines and then but I definitely do enjoy the experience of working with a director and them maybe having a different thought or something that's totally different to the way I've interpreted it.
但我觉得通过她我能表达很多自己的情感，你知道，这在某种程度上相当具有宣泄作用。
But I feel like I get to express so much through her, you know, of my own emotion that it's quite quite cathartic in a way.
我希望我也能有那样的方式。
I wish I had something like that.
感觉像是用来疏导她日常的压力。
Feel like to channel her daily stresses.
是的。
Yeah.
就像有时候我们拍监狱戏份时，她会说‘带我去大厅’。
It's it's like some days when we've done the prison stuff, like, when she's like, take me to the hall.
我记得当时我扯着嗓子尖叫。
I remember doing it and just screaming off the top of my lungs.
我当时就想‘没错’。
And I was like, yes.
你知道，那种感觉真好，你可以做一些在正常世界里人们会盯着你看的事情，而且
Like, it just felt so good to you know, you get to do things that in in the normal world people would stare at you for and and
并且评判你。
and judge you for.
嗯，就连维拉内尔的关系看起来也如此精彩。
Well, even Villanelle's relationship is so amazing to watch.
它不同于任何关系，尤其是我在电视上看过的那些精彩复杂的女性角色之间的关系。
It's unlike any relationship, especially between amazing complex females I've seen on television.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
这部剧的创作者菲比·沃勒-布里奇当初是怎么向你推介的？
How was it pitched to you by Phoebe Waller Bridge who created the series?
另外追问一下，你和桑德拉的关系怎么样？
And also, follow-up, what is your and Sandra's relationship like?
回答你的第一个问题关于剧集推介方式——说实话我记不清了。
In answer to your first question and how the show was pitched, I actually cannot remember.
感觉像是上辈子的事了，但我记得收到《杀死伊芙》的邮件时，看到菲比的名字就立刻兴奋起来，因为我太爱《伦敦生活》了，但读完俄罗斯杀手的故事后，我心想，天哪。
It feels like a lifetime ago, but I remember getting the email through for Killing Eve and I seen Phoebe's name and I immediately got excited because I loved Fleabag so much, but then I read Russian Assassin and I thought, oh god.
就像，我的第一反应是有点泄气，因为我在想，哦，我不是那种性感猫咪类型的，我在想会有多少裸露镜头，你知道，她整部剧都要穿着六英寸的高跟鞋，但后来发现这个角色很务实、很有趣、很机智、很糟糕，但又很 relatable。
Like, my immediate reaction I was kind of deflated a little bit because I was like, oh, I'm not, you know, this sexy cat like, I was thinking how much nudity is there gonna be, you know, she's gonna be in six inch heels for the whole series, like and then, her was this character who was practical, she was funny, she was witty, she was awful, but she was relatable.
她身上有人性。
There was humanity in her.
我立刻就觉得，这是对女性杀手这一特定类型的大胆新颖诠释。
And I immediately was like, this is a bold, fresh take on, you know, a female assassin, that particular genre.
所以我记不清当初是怎么被介绍的，但我记得那正是我立刻被吸引的地方。
So I I can't remember how it was pitched, but I remember that's what I immediately was was drawn to.
桑德拉非常棒。
And Sandra's fantastic.
我是说，我第一次见到她是在洛杉矶的第二次试镜时。
I mean, the moment I met her, I met her for my second audition in LA.
我飞过去只待了一天，当时正和朋友度假，接到电话说必须去洛杉矶试镜。我们演了第五集里她们初次见面的那场戏，她把所有道具都准备好了。
I flew out for one day, I was on holiday with a friend and I got a call to say that I had to go to LA to read And with we did the scene from episode five where they meet for the first time and she got all the props.
所以有餐具盘子之类的，还有给我准备的派可以吃，
So there was like cutlery plates, like there was like a pie for me to eat and
天哪。
Oh my god.
是的。
Yeah.
这非常罕见。
And that's very rare.
就像，我从未有过这样的经历，桑德拉真的非常非常在乎工作，我知道她那天对每个走进房间的女演员都会给予同样的关注和关怀。
Like, I've never had that experience before of Sandra really, really cares about the work and I know that she would've gave that attention and care to every actress that went in the room that day.
所以，我们立刻就相处得很融洽。
So, we just got on immediately.
我的意思是，从试镜时就非常明显我们之间有化学反应，而且存在一种信任，尤其是才认识对方五分钟的情况下。这种默契在整个拍摄过程中一直持续，尽管我们并没有太多时间在一起，因为我们的角色经常分开，但这种关系一直在不断加强。
I mean, it was very evident from the audition that we had chemistry and there was a trust there, especially for just knowing someone for, for the first five And that just continued, you know, throughout filming, even though we didn't spend an awful lot of time together because our characters were separated so much, It's it's just something that has continued to get stronger.
身边有像她这样的人真的很棒。
It's nice to have someone, you know, around you like her.
你在见到她之前看过她在《实习医生格蕾》里的作品以及她之前做的各种事情吗？
Had you seen her work in Grey's Anatomy and all the kind of things she had done before meeting her or
我没有看过，实际上见到她时我很庆幸这一点，因为我听说过很多关于她的事情，知道她多么受人喜爱，我的朋友丽芙看过，她当时很惊讶地问：
I hadn't, which I was glad of actually when I met her because I'd I'd heard so much about her and knew how much she was loved and and my my friend Liv, she had and she was like, what?
你从没看过？
You've never seen it?
就像
Like
克里斯蒂娜。
Christina.
这
This
太疯狂了。
is crazy.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
但我觉得挺好的，因为我进房间时没有任何预期。
So but I was kind of glad because I went in the room with no expectation.
桑德拉也没看过我演过的任何东西，自然是因为我当时才刚开始，还没什么作品。
And Sandra hadn't seen anything I'd done, like, naturally because I hadn't, you know, I was still kinda starting out.
所以我们就像一张白纸一样，从零开始合作。
So it was kind of like a we just came to it with, you know, like a like a blank canvas kind of thing.
桑德拉知道我没看过，她说：‘宝贝，留着吧，等哪天你摔断腿，躺床上六个月再看。’
And and Sandra knows I haven't watched it, and she was like, girl, save it for a day when you, like, break your leg and you're in bed for, six months.
所以，你知道的，留着以后再看吧。
So, you know, like, save it for a rainy day.
而我
And I
就说，好吧。
was like, okay.
完美。
Perfect.
这部剧拍摄得太美了。
The show's so gorgeously shot.
我超爱那些取景地。
I love the locations.
就连片头字幕、剧本、表演，一切都美极了。
Even the opening credits, the writing, the acting, everything's beautiful.
但他们在展示时确实
But they're definitely when they show
你城市的位置。
you where the city go.
是的。
Yeah.
但你的角色偶尔会让我从这种美感中惊醒，这些残忍的谋杀案。
But your character jolts me out of it occasionally, all the beauty with these grisly murders.
比如那个刺眼睛的场景。
Like that eye stabbing.
我很好奇，对你来说拍摄过程中最难堪的是哪部分？
I'm curious for you, what was the most difficult cringey to film?
你犯下的哪一桩谋杀案？
Which of your murders?
天啊。
Oh my god.
没有什么尴尬的吗？
Nothing's cringey?
我太喜欢沉浸其中了。
I like revel in it so much.
我喜欢那个。
I love that.
我根本不会那样。
I would not I would not be like that at all.
我总是会特别，嗯
I get so, like
不。
No.
担心。
Worried.
拍摄日越血腥，反而越棒。
Kill days on set are the best days.
就像
It's like
天啊。
Oh my god.
是啊。
Yeah.
纯粹因为，我觉得，你知道，菲比和现在的埃默拉尔德真正捕捉到的是，维拉内拉从不——你知道我认为她视自己为那种艺术家。
Purely because as well, I think what, you know, Phoebe and now Emerald has really captured is that it's never, you know I think Villanelle views herself as an artist in that way.
它是如此深思熟虑，你知道，如此一丝不苟，并且总是出人意料，所以总是令人惊讶。其中一个既有趣又不至于尴尬的，嗯，也可能有点尴尬，是Hot Medica那场戏，她夹住了那个男人的私处，因为那太离谱了，我记得拿到剧本时我心想，天哪，菲比这是在跟我们玩呢。
It's so thought out and, you know, so meticulously and nothing is ever expected, so it's always surprising and one that was funny and I guess it wasn't cringe, well, guess it could be, was the Hot Medica, where she clamps the guy's private pots because that was outrageous and I remember getting on the script and I was like, oh my god, Phoebe's really playing with us here.
所以，你知道，就是那种令人不安的时刻，简直太精彩了。
So just those kind of upset, you know, those kind of upset moments are just so brilliant.
我最喜欢的杀戮是比尔斯那场。
My favorite kill is Bills.
那是唯一一次我看到杀戮场面时心想，维拉内尔，你不该那么做的。
It was the one kill that I watched and I was like, Villanelle, you shouldn't have done that.
我记得当时发生那件事时我震惊极了。
I remember being so shocked when that happened.
是的。
Yeah.
我只是
I just
我当时以为他会是这一季的主要角色，可能还会和伊芙发展出一段恋情之类的。
was like because I thought he was gonna be like a main character in the in the season and like maybe there's gonna be a romance with him and I'm Eve or something.
我不知道。
I don't know.
然后突然间，
And then all
他就这样消失了。
of a sudden, he's just He's gone.
是啊。
Yeah.
你就会觉得，哇哦。
And you're like, woah.
等等。
Wait.
第一季里有好几个角色都遭遇了这种情况。
There was a couple of characters that that happened to in season one.
然后到第一季结束时，我们就想，为什么我们要把所有优秀的人都写死呢？
And then by the end of season one, we were like, why are we killing off all the great people?
所有出色的演员吗？
All the wonderful actors?
但你说得对。
But you're right.
这确实为剧集营造了兴奋感，因为你根本不知道谁会领便当。
It it creates an excitement about the show and because you just don't know Anyone can feel.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你是否也觉得，维拉内尔的时尚造型吸引了大量关注而且特别有趣？
Do you also, one of the things that I feel like has gotten attention and is so fun is Villanelle's fashion.
是的。
Yeah.
显然，那条粉色连衣裙堪称标志性造型。
Obviously, the pink dress was like an iconic look.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
我记得好像是在奥斯卡颁奖礼上看到所有人都穿着粉色连衣裙，他们还把它和...是的...并排展示。
I feel like I saw was it the Oscars maybe where everyone was wearing the pink dresses and they were like showing it next to Yeah.
你会说哪套服装是你最喜欢的，就是你穿上它就觉得这就是我的一切
What outfit would you say is your do you have like one that's your favorite that just like you wore it and you were just like, this is everything for me
对第一季来说
right For season one.
或者如果你能在不剧透的情况下透露一些第二季的内容
Or if you can tease anything from season two without giving anything away.
无论是哪一季的
If if it's from either season.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，第一季里有一件，又是那套，抱歉，比尔。
Well, there's from season one, it's the again, sorry, Bill.
就是我杀死比尔时穿的那套西装。
It's the suit that I killed Bill in.
那是Dreese Van Nelten的西装，它看起来有点像——它不像拼图，但又有点像。
This was the Dreese Van Nelten suits, and it was like it kind of looked like a it was like it didn't look like a jigsaw puzzle, but it kind of did.
但我穿着它感觉非常自在，她搭配了马丁靴，在柏林穿着这套酷炫的西装有种特别的感觉。
But I just felt so comfortable in it, and she wore it with, like, Doc Marten boots, and there was something about being in Berlin and Wearing this cool suit.
我觉得在剧集的那个阶段，你会感觉我真的找到了她的风格，我穿着那套衣服感到非常舒适。
And I think as well by that part of the show where you felt like I was really finding her, and I just felt really comfortable in that.
第二季里有一套备受争议的造型。
In season two, there was a questionable outfit.
在第二集里，实际上——哦不对。
In in episode two, actually oh, no.
第一集。
Episode one.
第一集，维拉内尔病得很重，发现自己身处巴黎的一家医院，并结识了躺在她旁边病床上的一个小男孩。
Episode one, Villanelle is extremely ill and and and finds herself in a in a hospital in Paris, and she befriends a young boy who was in the bed next to her.
他借给她一些睡衣。
And he lends her some pyjamas.
然后这些睡衣在第一季中变得非常重要。
And then these pyjamas then become heavily featured within the first
看了这一集后，它们真是疯狂。
They're wild having seen the episode.
我的意思是，当我看到这些布料时，他们告诉我：‘是的，这个男孩才十岁，而你要穿这些睡衣。’
I mean, I've seen the fabric when they showed me the fabric for them and I was like, they were like, yeah, so this boy is 10 years old and you're gonna be wearing them.
我当时想：太好了。
And I was like, great.
这真是太苛刻了。
This is so it's gonna be very unforgiving.
等到这期播出时，我想第一集应该已经播出了，所以我们可以顺便提一下卡骆驰鞋的桥段，是的。
By the time this airs, I think the first episode will have air, so we can also tease the Crocs moment, which Yeah.
我觉得那段太搞笑了。
Was so funny to me.
那个桥段是怎么来的？
How did that come about?
剧本里原本就有吗？
Was that in the script?
那是
Was that
剧本里就是这么写的。
It was in the script.
是的。
Yeah.
那是Emerald。
That was Emerald.
而我特别喜欢这一点，因为它非常贴近生活。
And what I love about it is it's so relatable.
是的。
Yeah.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
就好像每个人都对卡骆驰鞋有点害怕。
It's like everyone's slightly terrified of Crocs.
我不
I don't
我想我从没有过，朱莉？
think I've ever have you, Julie?
我觉得我从未穿过卡骆驰。
I don't think I've ever worn Crocs.
我肯定没有在公共场合穿过。
Am I out definitely not in public.
不要
Don't
甚至不
even No.
不
No.
实际上私下里也不会穿
Not in private either, actually.
不知道我为什么会有那种感觉。
Don't know why I felt that way.
你有没有曾经
Had had you ever
你刚刚透露了你的薪水。
You just busted your salary.
对。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
那绝对是个明显的暗示。
That was definitely a tell there.
我不是有意在节目中透露这个的。
I did not mean to reveal that on air.
所以现在事情已经公开了，无法收回了。
So now it's out now it's out there in the world and nothing I can do to take it back.
而且，在我舒适的家里，我穿的全是卡骆驰鞋。
And like, in the comfort of my home, it's all Crocs for me.
是的。
Yeah.
但我喜欢的是，这引发了一场关于应该穿哪种卡骆驰鞋的讨论。
But what I loved about it because then the the became this whole conversation about what crocs they should be.
我当时就说，他们绝对应该有那些超级烦人的贴纸徽章，就像人们买来定制鞋子用的那种。
And I was like, they should definitely have those super annoying, like, sticker badges that people buy for them, like, to customize them.
我其实直到节目播出才看到那个。
I I hadn't actually seen that until the episode.
那太疯狂了，他们现在为我的节目准备了小玩意儿。
That that's crazy when they have the little now now for my own episode.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你得行动起来。
You need to get on that.
而且最有趣的是，在所有可能惹恼她或让她反感的东西里，居然是一双卡骆驰鞋。
And also just the fact of, like, of all the things that could anger her or repulse her, it's a pair of Crocs.
没错。
Yeah.
你知道吗？
You know?
就是这些小事。
It's the little things.
她和旁边病床上那个男人的关系也让我觉得很有趣，因为那种化学反应来得太快了。
That relationship with that guy in the bed next to her was so interesting to me too because it's so quick, the chemistry, I feel like.
然后到剧集结尾时，你会觉得，哇，这真是一段很棒的友谊。
And then by the end of the episode, you're like, wow, this is like a great friendship.
然后她显然就对他翻脸了。
And then she obviously turns on him.
和他一起工作并经历那段时期是什么感觉？
What was that like to work with him and work through that?
因为我总觉得这些时刻让我觉得，维拉内尔虽然做了这些可怕的事情，但你显然还是爱她并能与她产生共鸣，这是一种非常有趣的平衡。
Because I feel like it always these moments to me of Villanelle being like, you you obviously love her and relate to her even though she's doing these horrible things and it's such an interesting balance.
嗯，这正是我们在剧集中真正试图探讨的，因为我觉得尤其是在第二季，很多观众都会有这样的时刻，他们会说，我明白了。
Well, that's what we've really tried to explore within the series because I feel especially within series two is because I feel like a lot of viewers, they they they have moments where they go, I see it.
我看到这个人类，这个人，然后她做了某件事，他们就
I see this this human, this person, and then she does something and they go
就这样了。
that's it.
是的。
Yep.
哦，不。
Oh, no.
是的。
Yep.
我完全搞错了。
I got it so wrong.
所以我们在第二季中深入探讨了这些时刻，但我觉得她在医院里与这个男孩建立的关系最让我着迷的一点是，它让我有点想起了她与康斯坦丁女儿建立的那种关系。
So we've really kind of delved into those moments within series two, but what I found fascinating about the relationship that she creates with this boy in the hospital is that it kind of reminded me a little bit of the relationship that she creates with Constantine's daughter.
在季终集
At the finale
是的。
of Yeah.
第二点是，薇拉内尔身上有一种非常孩子气的特质，尽管她讨厌孩子，但不知为何，当她与孩子们在一起时，她似乎无法不被他们看见和理解。
Two is, you there is a very childlike quality to Villanelle and it somehow feels that when even though she hates children, some like, I feel like when she's around them, she can't help but be seen and understood a little bit.
是的。
Yeah.
但正如你所说，她建立了这种关系，但最终还是利用了这个男孩来达到自己的目的。
But again, you're right, you know, she creates this relationship but then ultimately uses this boy for her own advantage.
你知道，有那么一刻他说，你知道，我太痛苦了，巴拉巴拉巴拉。
You know, there's a moment where he's like, you know, I'm in so much pain, blah blah blah blah.
然后她说，你能走路吗？
And she's like, can you walk?
然后她说，太好了。
And she's like, great.
就像，你得帮我一把。
Like, you're gonna help me out here.
让她自己受苦，你知道的
And puts him through agony for her own, you know
目的。
Purposes.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
你认为她是个反派吗？
Do you think of her as a villain?
还是说，因为你扮演她，你必须以某种更人性化的方式看待她？
Or do you think of her because you play her, do you have to think of her in some sort of more human way?
这很难说，因为，说实话，我不喜欢这种说法，但按理说，她应该是反派。
It's hard because, like, on paper, I hate that saying, but, like like, she should be the villain.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道吗？
You know?
但我觉得人们有时会发现自己支持她并理解她的决定，你知道吗？
But I I feel like people find themselves sometimes rooting for her and understanding her decisions, you know?
特别是如果在第一集发生了一些史诗般的事情，你知道，你忍不住会有点理解她为什么这么做。
Especially if there's something epic that happens in episode one and, you know, it's that you can't help but kind of see why she does it.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道吗？
You know?
正是这种扭曲的事情让观众质疑自己，却又理解这个本该黑白分明、令人厌恶的人。
And it's that kind of twisted thing that has the audience questioning themselves but and understanding this person who should black and white be awful.
她确实很糟糕，别误会我的意思，但我认为她有很多可救赎的品质。
And she is terrible, like, don't get me wrong, but I think there are a lot of redeemable qualities about her.
而且我认为，观众可以通过她获得乐趣。
And I think, you know, the audience can can have fun through her.
而且我觉得你忍不住会喜欢她。
And I think you can't help but enjoy her.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
作为这部剧的粉丝，让你感到最意外的人物是谁？
Who's been the most surprising person you've learned as a fan of the show?
我前几天经历了一次非常超现实的体验。
I had a a kind of very surreal experience a couple of days ago.
我在酒店大堂里，真的撞见了海伦·米伦女爵士。
I was in the lobby of a hotel and quite literally bumped into Dame Helen Mirren.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
那简直是朱莉的梦幻冒险。
That's Julie's, like, fantasy adventure.
嗯。
Yeah.
这就是全部了。
That is everything.
嗯。
Yeah.
她太棒了。
She's amazing.
嗯。
Yeah.
我当时就想，天啊。
And I was like, oh my god.
她怎么
How'd she
她还说：我知道。
And she was like, I know.
我也有同样的感觉。
I feel the exact same.
我当时就想，不可能。
And I was like, no.
我没有说出来，但那确实是我心里的想法。
I didn't say that out loud, but, like, that's what I was doing inside my brain.
然后我就直接回了酒店房间。
And then I skipped to my hotel room.
那真的非常不真实，你知道吗？想到你如此钦佩和仰望的人，竟然看到了这样的事情，简直难以置信。
So that was that was that was very, very surreal, you know, just to know that someone who you kind of admire and look up to as much as her has seen something is like, what?
但我的意思是，似乎每个人都一直在支持它。
But, I mean, it just feels like everyone has kind of championed it.
真的有很多事情值得回忆，但就是如此。
There's been so many, truthfully, to kind of remember, but it's yeah.
我的意思是，这太棒了。
I mean, it's fantastic.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
该死。
Damn.
海伦·米伦，夜之女王。
Helen Mirren, Night Queen.
那就像碧昂丝一样。
That's like Beyonce.
说实话，我当时就想，
Literally though, I was like,
天哪。
oh my god.
我只是想表现得冷静一点。
I'm just trying to play it cool.
但我觉得我并没有做到。
I don't think I did though.
我确定。
I'm sure.
我觉得每次都是这样，当是 yeah 的时候。
I feel like it always feels whenever it's a yeah.
很难保持冷静。
It's hard to keep it together.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
她具体说了什么？
What did she say exactly?
只是她说她刚看了演出？
Just she she had just seen the show?
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她当时说
She was like
是的。
Yeah.
她只是个粉丝，然后我们就开始在电梯里聊了起来。
She was just a fan a fan, and then we just just started having like a a lift conversation.
我们在电梯里待了一小会儿。
We were in the lift for a little bit.
是的。
Yeah.
不是。
No.
她只是非常赞赏。
She was just very complimentary.
是的。
Yeah.
有点像掐自己一下的时刻。
Kind of pinch me moment.
进入第二季，因为剧集获得了如此多的惊人关注，你觉得感觉有什么不同吗？
To come going into season two, is it does it feel diff because of all the kind of amazing attention the show's gotten and all of that?
也就是说，现在你觉得有什么不一样吗？
Like, does it feel different to you somehow now?
我觉得第一季时，人们刚刚开始发现它，当然如此。
Is it, like, now because I think season one, obviously, people are just discovering it and it was Of course.
剧集。
Show.
现在，它已经以一种非常……的方式广为人知了。
Now, it's sort of, like, out there in this very kind of.
yeah。
Yeah.
是奖项和赞誉。
It's been the awards, the acclaim.
这是否让你感觉有所不同？
Does it how does that does it feel different to you?
我认为唯一的不同在于，第一季美妙之处在于它对我们所有人来说都是一个惊喜。
I think the only difference is that, like, what was wonderful about the first season was that it was a surprise to us all.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，我们相信菲比、演员阵容以及整个团队，我们知道它很特别，但你无法预知结果会如何，尤其是在如今内容如此丰富的情况下。
You know, like, we, you know, believed in Phoebe and the, you know, the the cast and the entire crew, and we knew it was special, but you just don't know how things are gonna land, especially with how much content there is now.
而现在，显然存在一种期望。
Whereas now, there is an obvious expectation.
是的。
Yeah.
而这可能会让人紧张不安。
And that can be nerve racking.
所以我认为这绝对是一个变化。
So that I think that is a definite change.
我知道爱merald在第二季接手了剧集的制作工作。
And I know Emerald took over sort of show running for season two.
这感觉有什么不同吗？
Has that felt different?
这感觉像是一种延续吗？
Has it sort of felt like a continuation?
在任何方面感觉有什么不同吗？
Does it feel different in any way?
实际上，这两种感觉都有。
It's felt like both, actually.
是的。
Yeah.
感觉不一样，因为Emerald本身就是一位出色的编剧，她和Phoebe是不同的人。
It's felt different because Emerald is a wonderful writer within her own right, you know, and and her and Phoebe are different people.
是的。
Yeah.
但实际上是很好的朋友，而且都非常调皮、搞笑。
But are actually very good friends and are both extremely naughty and hilariously funny.
所以，虽然有所不同，但那种喜剧与黑暗交织的基调确实得到了延续。
So, although it's different, there has definitely been that continuation of of tone, of comedy and darkness.
所以确实发生了转变，我认为这也反映了角色们现在所处的阶段。
So there has definitely been a shift, which I think also is a reflection of where the characters are now.
故事确实发生了变化。
The story has definitely changed.
这些女性角色已经改变，她们发生了转变，因此故事也随之变化。
These women are changed, they're altered, and as a result of that, the story is.
所以，你知道，我很喜欢桑德拉说的那句话。
So, you know, I love what Sandra says.
她说，电视剧就像一个有生命、会呼吸的东西，总是在变化，而我们也确实拥抱了这种变化。
She's like, TV is like a living, breathing thing and it's always changing, and we've definitely embraced that.
当人们遇到你，比如认出你的时候，他们通常会说些什么？
When people, like, do encounter you on like, people recognize you or such, what do people usually say?
人们通常想做什么？有没有人想冲着你喊出剧里的台词？
What do people wanna like, are there lines from the show people, like, wanna, like, scream at you or
人们有时会让我模仿口音，但我都会说：不。
what People sometimes ask me to do the accent and I'm like, no.
我就是不想再演了。
You're like, I'm not gonna uncommit.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
我做不到。
I can't.
或者，就在最近，有人找我合影，然后让我掐死他们。
Or like, quite recently, I had someone ask for a picture and then ask me to strangle them.
天啊。
Oh my god.
我的酒吧老板就说，不行，她不会那么做的。
My pub is just like, no, she's not gonna do that.
我不认为那会让你登上像Page Six这样的八卦版面，
I don't think that's that's gonna land you in, like, page six and
也许吧，确实。
maybe Exactly.
那是个等着发生的头条新闻。
That's a that's a headline waiting to happen.
但是，你知道，热情是存在的，而且你能看到这一点，这很可爱。
But, you know, the enthusiasm is there and and, you know, you can see that, which is is lovely.
但大家总是告诉我他们有多喜欢看这个节目。
But everyone's just always kind of telling me how much they've enjoyed enjoyed watching it.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
那些口音对你来说很自然吗？
Did did the accents come naturally to you?
这是你整个演艺生涯都在做的事情，还是因为你切换得太频繁，感觉像是在各种口音之间来回切换？
Is that something you've done your whole acting career or is it because you flipped so there's so many that you're, like, flipping between, I feel like.
口音是我从小到大一直和我爸爸开玩笑做的事情。
Accents are always something I've done kind of jokingly with my dad growing up.
就像小时候，我总是模仿别人，或者电视上有广告时，我们总会模仿它。
Like, as a kid, I would always do impressions or if there was an advert on the television, we would always kind of mimic it.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我觉得通过这样做，我某种程度上培养出了不错的听音辨音能力。
So I think as a result of doing that, I've kind of somehow created like a good ear for it.
有些口音比其他口音更容易掌握。
Some accents are easier than others.
语言完全是另一回事。
Languages are a completely different cuttlefish.
比如，我完全不会说任何外语。
Like, I don't speak any languages.
当我试镜时，你知道，她会说多种语言，当有人在试镜室里对你这么说时，就像他们问‘你会骑马吗？’一样。
When I auditioned, it was, you know, she speaks many languages, and when someone says that to you in an audition room, it's like if they say, can you ride a horse?
你会说‘当然会’。
You say, absolutely.
然后你再去担心学骑马的事。
And then you worry about learning to ride a horse Later.
一旦你拿到了这个角色。
Once you've got the role.
所以我当时想，嗯，当然可以。
So I was like, yeah, Sure.
然后我慢慢意识到，随着每一集的推进，他们并没有骗我。
And then and then I slowly realized that as I got each episode through, that they weren't lying.
于是我心想，好吧。
And I was like, okay.
工作从这里开始。
Work starts here.
等等。
Wait.
所以你得学法语吗？
So did you did you have to, like, learn French?
你是怎么做到的？
Or how did you go about it?
不用。
No.
我背了我的台词。
I learned my lines.
你学会了你的部分
You learned what you had
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
我现在肯定一点都记不起来了。
And I would definitely not be able to remember any of any of that now.
你知道，我会先学英文台词，然后按发音来记，这样似乎
You know, I'd learn the lines in English, and then I would learn it phonetically, and that seemed to be
哇。
Wow.
最简单的方法。
The easiest way.
是的。
Yeah.
在这个播客中，我们喜欢谈论我们对流行文化的痴迷。
Well, on this podcast, we love talking about kind of our pop culture obsessions.
我很好奇，你的呢？
I'm curious, what are yours?
有没有哪部电视剧让你着迷？
Are there any TV shows you are obsessed with?
有没有哪位名人是你关注的？
Any celebrities you track?
目前，我最近开始看《怪奇物语》。
At the minute, I've recently started watching Stranger Things.
哦。
Oh.
我太落后了。
I'm so behind.
我意识到了。
I realize that.
你就像说“不”。
You're like No.
不。
No.
我喜欢。你的痴迷点是什么？
I like What are your obsessions?
给我一些指引，告诉我应该走哪条路。
Give me an insight as to what what road I should be going down.
我们喜欢谈论英国王室，这个……哦，真的吗？
We love talking about the British royals, which as Oh, really?
是的。
Yeah.
你对他们感兴趣吗？
Are you are you into them at all?
我的意思是，我是哈里粉丝。
I mean, I'm a Harry fan.
嗯。
Yeah.
一个王子粉丝，那就是
A fan prince That's
我的意思就是。
what I mean.
挺有趣的人。
Fun guy.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得我更喜欢哈里，而不是其他所有人加在一起。
Like, he's he's I'm more of a fan of Harry than than than everyone collectively.
你们见过面吗？
Have you met?
并不是说我觉得英国所有人都应该见过面，我也不知道为什么会有这种假设。
Not that ever I don't know why I assume everyone in Britain would have, like, met in
世界。
world.
没有。
No.
还没有。
Haven't.
可惜啊。
Unfortunately.
是啊。
Yeah.
我敢说很快就会有。
At some point soon, I bet will.
我们当时很兴奋，前几天我确实和某人聊过这个话题。
We were lit I was literally having this conversation with someone the other day, actually.
他们说，如果你见过女王，我会非常钦佩。
They were like, if you had met the queen, I would be so impressed.
我很抱歉让你失望了。
And I was like, sorry to disappoint.
还没呢。
Not yet.
翡翠将会出现在王冠上。
And Emerald's gonna be on the crown.
对吧？
Right?
我这么说对吗？
Do I have that right?
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Is.
她扮演的是马拉。
She's playing Mala.
对吧？
Right?
我想是的。
I think so.
朱莉娅是我们这里的王冠专家。
Julia is our resident crown expert.
不过，是的。
But yeah.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
你有看过任何
Are you have you seen any
我看过第一季。
I've of seen the first series.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
那简直太棒了。
Which was incredible.
嗯。
Yeah.
太好了。
So good.
每当有人问我推荐什么剧时，我总是说《杀死伊芙》。
I always say Killing Eve when people ask me about shows.
我知道。
I know.
真的吗？
Do you really?
我总是推荐《杀死伊芙》。
I always Killing Eve.
我喜欢的是，看完《杀死伊芙》后，我去看了《伦敦生活》，因为我之前没看过。
I love I after Killing Eve, I watched Fleabag because I haven't seen it before.
《伦敦生活》太棒了。
Fleabag is incredible.
而且这部剧还会有第二季。
And that and there's gonna be a series two of that.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
它现在在英国已经上映了。
It's actually out in The UK at the minute.
哦。
Oh.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
我觉得它还没在美国上映，我觉得美国还没播过。
I don't think it hasn't played I don't think it's played in The US.
没有。
No.
我觉得它可能会先在那里上映，然后才会出来。
I think it'll probably probably go out there first, and then it'll probably be out.
我觉得它在英国是在亚马逊上播出的，对吧？
I think it's on Amazon, is Over here?
是的。
Yes.
我想是的。
I think so.
或者至少第一季。
Or the first at least the first season
是的。
was.
太精彩了。
It's so brilliant.
我听说她，你看过她的单人秀吗？
And I hear her have you seen her one woman show?
没有。
No.
我周六要去。
I'm going on Saturday.
太棒了。
Amazing.
我太兴奋了。
I'm so excited.
我Instagram动态里的每个人都在晒节目单。
Everyone on my Instagram feed is posting the playbill.
好像，大家都想去看《伦敦生活》。
Like, everyone's trying to get out to see Fleabag.
我感觉我们正在见证，就像是，有史以来最伟大的人之一的诞生。
I feel like we are witnessing, like, the birth of one of the greatest people to ever live.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
就像是，她是个传奇人物。
Like, she is a legend.
与她合作，你会怎么说，比如，当人们问你关于菲比的事情时，你有什么看法或故事，比如她即将合作的内容是什么，或者是什么让她如此特别？
Working with her, what would you say is like, what what are your take like, when people ask you about Phoebe, like, what are your, like do have, an anecdote or take, like, what what she's about to work with or, like, what makes her so special?
我喜爱菲比的一点——也是我觉得她极具吸引力的地方——是她对自己、对自己的状态如此坦然自若。至少在我看来是这样，她本人或许有不同感受。但她身上那种自信是我渴望拥有的，你知道吗？这种自信极具感染力。
What what I love about Phoebe and and I think is so ridiculously attractive about her is that she is so comfortable within herself, in her own skin, at least that, you know, she might see different, but to me, there is just a confidence around her that I wish I had, you know, and it's so infectious.
比如，当你和她在一起时，如果有一桌人，大家都会想——你懂的——重新围拢过来。
Like, when you were around her, if there was a table full of people, it's just like, know Back at it.
桌边每个人都想坐在她旁边。
Every single one of those people around that table wants to sit next to her.
她确实有种迷人的能量，和她在一起总能保证笑声不断。
And she just she does have a lovely energy about her and you're always guaranteed a lot of laughs when you're in her company.
但我认为在与菲比合作《杀死伊芙》初期，从她身上学到最多的是关于薇拉内拉这个角色——她身上有一种自由感，薇拉内拉不在乎别人的看法，而我显然很在意。
But I think what I learned most about Phoebe and being on set with her for the of start of Killing Eve was especially when approaching Villanelle was that there is a freedom within Villanelle and Villanelle doesn't care about what people think and, you know, I definitely do.
为了演好这个角色，我必须彻底摆脱自身的这种束缚。
And in order to play that, I had to really shed that from myself.
菲比真的鼓励我在片场大胆尝试。
And Phoebe really encouraged me to, like, take risks on set.
你知道，她总是说‘好，我们来试试这个’。
You know, she was like, okay, we're gonna try this.
可能会非常非常糟糕。
It could be really, really bad.
如果是的话，我们就当它从未发生过。
If it is, we will pretend it never happened.
不过，让我们试试
However, let's give it
看吧。
a go.
而且，十有八九，当你那样做，允许自己冒险尝试一些事情时，总能发现一些有点天才、有点魔力的东西。
And, like, nine times out of 10, when you did that and just allowed yourself to, like, just to take a risk and dare to do something, you always find something that's a little bit genius and a bit magic.
这就是我从与她合作的经历中学到的东西，就是——嗯。
And and that's what I take I took from my experience of of working with her was just to yeah.
就是要拥有那种自由。
Just to be a bit That freedom.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
这很难，你知道，尤其是在这个时代，焦虑情绪高涨，我们总是担心别人对我们的看法。
And it's hard, you know, especially in, like, this day and age where also kind of, you know, anxiety is through the roof and we're always worried about what everyone is thinking about us.
但是，是的，我从她那里学到了这一点。
But, yeah, I I I learned that from her.
你说到这个让我不知为何想到了社交媒体，就像是，嗯。
When you speaking about that made me think for some reason about social media, like, of like Yeah.
当你提到不安全感时，我总是忍不住关注别人在做什么。
When when you brought up insecurities, I'm like always feeling, like, looking at other people are doing.
我知道你也在用Instagram之类的，但你真的享受这些东西吗？
Are you I know you're on Instagram and such, but do you enjoy all of that stuff?
我知道随着你的知名度越来越高，你肯定得更谨慎地考虑发布内容之类的事情吧？
Is that something I know it's, when as as your profile gets bigger and bigger, I'm sure you have to think about, like, what you're posting more and that sort of thing?
确实如此。
I do.
是的。
I do.
而且我觉得这很难，因为要试图找到一个平衡点，比如，我确实想尽可能保持我的私生活私密。
And it I I think it's hard because it's, trying to find a balance of, like, I I definitely wanna keep my private life as private as I can.
但我也理解，对于某些人来说，如果你只是发一些宣传内容，比如，哦，
But then I understand that for, you know, some people if you're just posting, like, promos and, like, oh,
看看，我不知道她在舞蹈中做了什么。
look at I don't know what she does in her dance.
看看我在《Frenchie》杂志上的样子。
Look at me in a Frenchie magazine.
得了吧。
Come on.
就像是，好吧。
It's like, okay.
我们明白这点，但是，你又是谁呢？
We get that, but, like, who are you?
是的。
Yeah.
所以我正在努力应对这一点，你知道，同时也在试图保留我想要的东西，但也要与人们互动，因为《杀死伊芙》的粉丝们是传播口碑的关键，我们非常感谢那些支持我们、为我们加油的人。
So I'm trying to navigate that, you know, while also kind of trying to keep, you know, keep what I want for myself, but then also, you know, engage with people because the fans, especially for Killing Eve, are the ones who spread the word and, know, we owe so much to the people who support us and champion us.
所以我肯定想要建立这种关系。
And so I definitely want to make that relationship.
只是需要谨慎对待，把握好分寸
It's just it's just like being cautious of just how
你不想分享，是的。
You don't wanna share yeah.
为自己保留一些东西是很重要的。
It's important to keep him sure of something for yourself.
是的。
Yeah.
但这很有趣，我觉得。
But it's it's fun, I think.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
薇拉内尔和伊芙的关系在下一季会如何继续发展？
How does Villanelle and Yves relationship continue to evolve in this next season?
哦，那可说来话长了。
Oh, that's a whole thing.
我认为伊芙和维拉内尔之间最吸引人的地方在于，我们这部剧是从上一季结束的三十秒后直接开始的。
What I think is fascinating about the kind of what we've explored between Eve and Villanelle is, you know, we pick up the series thirty seconds from where we left off.
我被刺伤了。
I'm stabbed.
我流的血比第一季第八集时要少得多。
I have a lot less blood than what I did in episode eight of season one.
两位女性都还在为刚刚发生的事情感到震惊。
And both women are kind of just reeling from the events of what have just happened.
薇拉内拉正处于生死存亡的搏斗中，她非常担心自己的生命安全，需要帮助，但意识到自己陷入了大麻烦，必须尽可能远离这个处境。
Villanelle is like on a fight for survival, she is very much fearing for her life and needs help, but realizes she's in a lot of trouble and has to get as far away from the situation as she possibly can.
我认为真正有趣的是，弄清楚这次行动、这次刺杀对薇拉内拉意味着什么。
And what I think is really interesting is finding out what this action, this stabbing means to Villanelle.
这如何让她与伊芙产生联系？
How does that now connect her with Eve?
这次事件又形成了怎样的关系？
What relationship has this now formed?
你知道，她了解Eve吗？
You know, Does she understand Eve?
她原谅她了吗？
Does she forgive her?
这确实塑造了她们两人未来的关系走向。
That is what kind of really shapes the relationship between the two of them going forward.
最终，这些女性被迫有了更多接触。
And ultimately, these women are forced to be in contact a little bit more.
还有，你知道，这种不可能的关系，到底是什么，最终能不能成，嗯。
And and, you know, just this impossible relationship, know, what is it and and can it be ultimately is yeah.
这对我来说非常有趣，因为你们在屏幕上互动并不多，但感觉却是我见过的最强烈、最紧张的动态关系。
It's so interesting to me because you guys don't share that much screen time, but yet it feels like the most, like, intense dynamic I've, like, seen on television.
你们俩，你和桑德拉，是怎么合作塑造这种关系的？
And how do you guys do you and Sandra work on that?
因为你们实际上并不经常在一起。
Because you don't actually, like you're not together that often.
当你们在拆解剧集、做准备工作时，会特意考虑这一点吗？
Like, is that something you think about when you're, like, working on breaking down episodes and things?
还是说这一切都是自然而然发生的？
Or does it just happen naturally?
我觉得，恰恰相反，这反而有帮助。
I feel like it if anything, it kind of helps.
奇怪的是？
Strangely?
营造紧张感
Build the tension up
或者类似的东西。
or something.
因为我和桑德拉相处得很好，在宣传期间和拍摄期间我们花了很多时间在一起，因为我们还要一起讨论剧本和其他事情。
Because we I mean, me and Sandra, we get on very well and we spend a lot of time together when we're doing press and, you know, within within the filming period because we're working on scripts and everything else.
但这种缺席也正是这些角色所经历的。
But that absence is also what these characters experience.
所以这反而让那些时刻显得更加重要。
So it it kind of just makes those moments even bigger.
你知道，那种能量是 palpable 的，我们做的事情确实有一种分量。
You know, the energy is palpable and it's like there is definitely a weight to what we're doing.
所以这在一定程度上帮助了紧张感的营造。
So it kind of helps with the tension.
在第一季中，当他们在餐桌前第一次见面时，我们确实感受到了这种氛围，因为在此之前我们只拍过一个场景，就是他们在浴室里短暂相遇，仅仅一两秒。
We definitely felt that within season one when they meet for the first time the dinner table, because I think we'd only shot one scene before that where they briefly meet in the bathroom for like a split second.
当我们拍摄那天，整个剧组都感觉，哇，这真是个非常重要的时刻。
And when we got to the day, it was like, even the whole crew were like, woah, this is a big, big moment.
所以，是的。
So, yeah.
你在那一幕中能感受到那种张力。
And you feel it in that scene.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
你知道，和演员合作很棒，和金·波德尼亚也是一样，天啊，那个人。
You know, it's great when you work with actors that it's the same with Kim Bodnia, like, oh my god, that man.
就像，在我遇见他并拍摄半空中场景的那一刻，我们俩只是互相看了一眼，那一刻我们仿佛心有灵犀
Like, at the moment I met him and we did half air scene, we both just kinda looked at each other and there was just a moment that passed where we were like
这能行得通。
This is working.
这会这会很有趣。
This is this is gonna be fun.
要知道，并不是和每个人都能这样，这没关系，但当你遇到某人并觉得‘没错’时，这些时刻反而显得更加特别。
Like, it doesn't happen with everyone and and that's okay, but it kind of makes those moments even more special when you meet someone and you're like, yes.
就像我们之间，你们就是能互相理解。
Like, we just you just get each other.
所以是的。
So yeah.
在你成长过程中，甚至现在，有没有哪些演员或女演员是你一直仰望的角色榜样？不一定是要有完全相同的职业生涯，只是说你真正敬仰的人，当你
When you were growing up or even now, who are you acting like role do you have people that you always looked up to as actors or actresses that were like, I I would love to have not necessarily the exact same career or anything, but just say people that you really looked up to when
在
you were
朱莉在
Julie in
沃尔特斯。
Walters.
我每次采访都这么说，但我确实是真心的。
I say this in every interview, but I really mean it.
我就是非常喜欢她。
I just I love her so much.
因为我觉得她无所不能，她什么都做过，什么都探索过，而且我觉得她非常有魅力，
Because I think she can do anything and she has done everything and she's explored everything and I think she's so charismatic and
你有没有她特别喜欢的表演作品或者
Do you have a favorite performance of hers or
《教育丽塔》。
Educate and Rita.
我还没看过那部。
I haven't seen that.
得去看看。
Need to get that.
天哪。
Oh my god.
太美了。
It's so beautiful.
我太爱那部电影了。
I love that film so much.
还有萨曼莎·莫顿。
Samantha Morton also.
我记得我第一次看莫文·卡拉的时候，大概是在16、17年左右，那是第一次。
I remember when I I watched Morven Callah for the first time and must have been in like, I don't maybe '16, '17, and and that was the, you know, the first time.
看的时候我内心发生了某种变化，我就想，哇，那就是我想做的事。
I didn't something happened to me when I watched that and I was like, woah, that is what that's what I want to do.
就像我以前从未见过像她那样的表演，那真的非常非常激励我。
Like, I hadn't seen acting like what she'd done before, and and that really, really inspired me.
我知道你正在和瑞安·雷诺兹合作一部明年上映的喜剧，虽然我不知道你能透露多少细节。
And I know you have I don't know how much you can say about it, but a Ryan you're working with Ryan Reynolds on a comedy coming out next year.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yes.
嗯。
Yeah.
你还没拍吧？
Is is that where have you you haven't filmed that yet?
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
我们大概五月左右就要开拍了。
We're about to start that around May time.
是的。
Yeah.
你期待做这件事吗？
Are you excited to do something?
我的意思是，因为这听起来和《杀死伊芙》很不一样。
I mean, that's because it sounds very different from Killing Eve.
是的。
Yeah.
我很期待。
I am.
我真的，真的是这样。
I really, really am.
尤其因为我以前从未拍过像故事片这样的作品，而且我感觉自己已经准备好了，但机会就是一直没来，你知道的，是的。
Especially because I'd never done, like, a feature film before, and I felt so ready to, and the opportunity just never, you know Yeah.
就是一直没能实现。
It just didn't never worked out.
但我一直相信，当时机成熟，并且是为了正确的原因和合适的人，它就会实现。
But I always believe, like, it does when the time is right and, you know, for the the right reasons and people.
是的，肖恩·利维执导，瑞安扮演电子游戏中的一个背景角色，他认为自己的人生有更重大的使命，后来意识到自己其实身处电子游戏中。
Yeah, Sean Levy's directing and Ryan plays a background character within a video game and he thinks his life has this bigger purpose and comes to the realization that he is in fact in a video game.
我在游戏中通过一个叫莫洛托夫女孩的虚拟形象认识了他。
And I meet him through the game as an avatar called Molotov Girl.
但在现实世界里，我是个叫米莉的女孩，实际上是我编写了这个游戏，但我的成果被窃取了。
But in the real world, I'm a girl called Millie and I actually programmed the game but I had my stolen.
所以本质上，这是关于他们联手拯救他的世界和她的世界的故事。
So it's all about them coming together to fight to save his world and hers, essentially.
但我非常喜欢这一点。
But it's a lot of I love that.
我知道。
I know.
这个概念真的很酷。
That's a really cool concept.
超级有趣。
It's super fun.
你已经见过他了吗？或者和他聊过这个项目了吗？还是怎么着？
Have you gotten to meet him yet or talk to him about the project yet or what is it?
嗯。
Yeah.
我实际上是在12月16日拍完《杀死伊芙》的，然后第二天就飞去纽约和他试镜。
I actually so I wrapped on Killing Eve, like, the December 16, and then I flew to New York on the seventeenth to read with him.
然后我直接飞回家了。
And then I flew straight home.
大概一周后，我得知Sean给我打了电话，他说：‘嘿，想拍部电影吗？’
And then, yeah, found out like a week later, Sean rang me and he was like, hey, wanna be in a movie?
我当时就说：‘啊。’
And I was like, ah.
这太搞笑了。
That's so funny.
当然想啊。
Yes, please.
所以那次经历也很美好，你知道，当我走进那个房间时的氛围，长途飞行去试镜总会让人想太多，但肖恩和瑞安营造了一种非常放松、惬意的氛围，感觉就像是一个工作坊，非常鼓舞人心，那真是非常有趣的一天。
So it was it was was lovely as well, like the energy when I went in that room, you know, it's a long it's a long flight to go audition and overthink things, and and Sean and Ryan were it was a very relaxed, chilled, kinda it felt like a like a workshop, you know, was very encouraging and it was a really fun fun day.
所以我很高兴最终成功了。
So I'm glad it worked out.
是在纽约还是洛杉矶拍摄？
Is it gonna film in New York or LA
是在波士顿拍摄。
or It's it's gonna film in Boston.
哦。
Oh.
我从来没去过。
Which I've never been.
我其实是波士顿人。
I'm from Boston actually.
不会吧。
No way.
能给我一些
Can give me some
我知道。
I know.
我给你一些建议。
I'll give you some tips.
这是个
It's a
现在有很多电影在波士顿拍摄。
good lots of things are filming in Boston these days.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
这地方不错，你在那里会玩得很开心。
It's a good you'll have a great time there.
是的。
Yeah.
我那里待一段时间，所以
I'm there for a little while, so
是的。
Yeah.
你会适应的。
You'll figure it.
那里很不错，有点像纽约，但稍微
It's it's nice because it's sort of like New York, but a little
大家都说小一点。
Everyone says a little bit smaller.
是的。
Yeah.
更容易掌控。
A little more manageable.
更容易实现。
More doable.
嗯。
Yeah.
小邻居的连帽衫。
Little neighbor hoodie.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我发你一些不错的早午餐地点。
I'll send you some good, like, brunch
书上推荐的。
spots on the books.
嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我完全是为了美食。
I'm all about the food.
是的。
Yeah.
而且，比如，如果是夏天就不会，冬天也不会糟糕。
And, like, it won't be if it's in the summer, it won't be it's bad in the winter.
但如果
But if
如果是夏天，你就没问题。
it's summer, you're fine.
当我告诉别人我要去波士顿时，大家的反应都是：哦，几月份去？
Thing everyone was when I said I'm going to Boston, they were like, oh, what month?
然后我说六月，他们就说：哦，那没问题。
And then I was like, June, they're like, oh, you'll be fine.
嗯。
Yeah.
冬天的时候，我几乎都不想回家看父母，太冷了。
It's very if like, I don't I barely can, like, wanna go home to visit my parents in the winter.
太冷了。
It's like so cold.
天啊。
But Oh gosh.
这让纽约看起来都像迈阿密了。
It makes New York seem like Miami or something.
但你现在夏天去肯定会很好。
But then but now you'll you'll be great in the summer.
不。
No.
会很热的。
It's gonna be hot.
我知道，确实会这样。
It's it can get I know.
问题是这样的。
Well, this is the thing.
我是英国人，所以我很喜欢抱怨天气。
I don't I I'm I'm I'm British, so I like to moan about the weather a lot.
如果太热，我会抱怨；如果太冷，我也会抱怨。
Like, if it's too hot, I'm like, if it's too cold, I'm moaning then as
嗯。
well.
是啊。
Yeah.
天气会刚刚好。
It's gonna be just right.
所以听起来，出演你的第一部剧情长片是个巨大的事。
So it sounds like that is, like, a huge to be in your first feature film.
你有没有其他类型的，比如，梦想中的角色或者某天特别想做的事情，无论是想合作的导演还是想要尝试的类型？
Do you have other sort of, like, act, like dream sort of role or things that you just really would love to do someday, whether it be like directors you would wanna work with or just kind of like things you'd wanna approach?
我梦想的角色。
My dream role.
我们其实在来这里的车上唱了很多音乐剧的歌曲。
We were actually singing a lot of musical songs on the way here in the car.
哦，好的音乐剧。
Oh, good musical.
我很想扮演南希和奥利弗。
I'd love to play Nancy and Oliver.
哦。
Oh.
那就像我的梦想一样。
That's like my dream.
或者你有唱歌的背景吗？
Or you do have a singing background?
我还不错。
I'm not bad.
是的。
Yeah.
我相信你肯定很棒。
I'm sure you're amazing.
我要出去了
I'm gonna go out
大胆猜测一下，我相信你肯定很棒。
on a limb and say I'm sure you're great.
我的意思是，尤其是在电影里他们可以剪辑处理，对吧？
I mean, especially, you know, they can they can edit things in film, can't they?
他们可以帮你搞定。
They can help you out.
不过说真的，我真的很想有一天能在《雾都孤儿》里扮演南希。
But no, I'd love to play Nancy in Oliver one day.
但对我来说，剧本始终是关键，因为我觉得完成一个项目后，你知道，我想去别的地方，它会根据情况波动变化，你知道，我想要某种能让我产生特定感觉的东西。
But for me, it's always about scripts because I feel like after I finish a project, you know, I want to go somewhere else and it just fluctuates and changes depending and, you know, I want something to make me feel a certain way.
这就是我在寻找的东西，你知道，我也很想演话剧。
And that's what I try to seek out when I'm, you know, I'd love to do theater as well.
我的选择是开放的。
My options are open.
就像，我想，我想保持我的，是的。
Like, I wanna I wanna keep my yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
不过，是的。
But yeah.
就是那种能激发我情感的东西，然后
Just something that, you know, provokes an emotion in me, and
我觉得
I think
我们希望这能触动正在观看的观众。
we'll hopefully do that to to the audience who are watching.
我迫不及待想在舞台上看到你。
I I can't wait to see you on stage.
我会把这
I'm gonna will this
释放到宇宙中。
into the universe.
让我们把它说出来吧。
Let's put it out there.
嗯。
Yeah.
乔迪，非常感谢你今天前来。
Well, Jodi, thank you so much for coming today.
这真是太有趣了。
This was so fun.
是的。
Yes.
我们所有人都对大家的反应感到兴奋，如果你还没看《Killing You》，现在还在听的人，难道不是吗？
We are all so excited about everyone needs if you're not if you're listening who isn't watching Killing You by this point?
他们简直像住在山洞里一样。
They're like living in a cave.
如果你还没
If you if you haven't
看过的话，一定要补上。
gotten to it yet, make sure you catch up.
我想4月7日是第二季的第一集。
I I guess April 7 is the first episode for season two.
是的。
Yes.
然后一共有多少集？
And then how many?
好像是八集，对吧？
It's like eight episodes, right?
对。
Yeah.
八集。
Eight episodes.
所以是的。
So yeah.
那我们会有一个第三季吗？
And then we will that be a season three?
我们知道了么？
Do we know yet?
我们还不知道。
We don't know yet.
我们还不知道。
We don't know yet.
好的。
Okay.
手指、脚趾、眼球
Fingers, toes, eyeballs
我读过。
I read.
腿，对。
Legs Right.
双臂交叉。
Arms crossed.
我觉得这是个稳妥的猜测。
I think it's a safe bet.
嗯。
Yeah.
这确实是，挺不错的。
It's it's not it's a pretty yeah.
非常感谢您今天莅临。
Well, thanks so much for being here today.
谢谢。
Thank you.
嗯。
Yeah.
真有趣。
So fun.
好了，这期《聚光灯下》就到这里。
That does it for this week's episode of In the Limelight.
非常感谢大家收听。
Thank you guys so much for listening.
请记得在Apple播客上关注我们，评分、评论、告诉您的朋友，在推特和Instagram上分享等等。
Please remember to check us out on Apple Podcasts, rate, review, tell your friends, tweet, Instagram, all of that.
您也可以拨打 (347) 790-0966 给我们留言。
You can also reach out and leave us a voicemail at (347) 790-0966.
此外，欢迎通过Twitter联系我们，账号是in the limelight，或者单独联系我——我是Jay Duboff，Julie是Julie w Miller。
Also, feel free to reach out to us on Twitter at in the limelight or individually, I'm Jay Duboff, and Julie is Julie w Miller.
我们也在Instagram上，账号是in the limelight pod。
We're also on Instagram at in the limelight pod.
本期节目由Brett Fuchs编辑和制作。
This episode was edited and produced by Brett Fuchs.
非常感谢大家的参与。
Thanks so much for joining us.
我们下周再聊。
We'll talk to you next week.
在那之前，远离负能量。
And until then, no bad energy.
Panoply。
Panoply.
来自PRX。
From PRX.
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