独一无二的克里斯·詹娜

所以五是你的特写镜头。嗨。击个掌。懂吗？击掌？

So five is your close-up. Hi. High five. Get it? High five?

我刚明白过来。

I just got it.

我当时想，大概16岁的时候，我唯一的愿望就是生六个孩子。那就是我的命运。我还为此祈祷过，

I was like, I think when I was about 16 years old, all I wanted to do was have six kids. That was my destiny. And I used to pray about it, and

我坚信不疑。没人会质疑你的决心。大家都知道我那时是激光般专注。他们对青春期阶段有种焦虑和担忧。我知道自己当年有多叛逆。你

I claimed it. I don't think anyone questions your determination. I think everyone knows if you I was laser focused. They have this, like, anxiety and this buildup about the teenage stage. I know what a terrorist I was as a You

太狂野了。我知道。你那时又辣又疯。

wild. I know. You were spicy and crazy.

好吧。你这是在证实我该害怕青春期阶段。绝对是的。你和金，比如我们要拍个节目，你们必须参加。科特和我当时就说，不，我们才不。

Okay. You're confirming that I should be terrified of the teenage phase. Absolutely. You and Kim, like, we're gonna film a show and you guys have to be on it. Court and I were like, no, we're not.

我们不想上这个节目。后来你当我们的经理指挥我们时，我们一脸懵：你在说什么？你休想对我们发号施令。我们就想：啥？你只是不想让人觉得，哦，和家人共事很轻松。

We don't wanna be on this show. Then when you were like our manager and telling us what to do and we're like, what are you talking? Like, you're not gonna boss us around. We're like, what? You just don't want people thinking, oh, working with family is a breeze.

不，不。确实存在挑战。当你不想录制另一期节目时，就把我当作临时替补吧。哦，你要当主持人吗？

No. No. There are challenges for sure. Just use me as a filler when you don't wanna tape another episode. Oh, you'll be the host?

哦，没错。你已经积累了丰富的人脉资源。你可能会请到，比如说，耶稣本人坐在那里。

Oh, yeah. You have nurtured that Rolodex. You will have, I don't know, Jesus sitting right there.

天啊。那太棒了。

Oh my gosh. That would be great.

那简直太棒了。嗨，妈妈。嗨。嗨。你能来我的播客我太开心了。

That would be great. Hi mommy. Hi. Hi. I'm so happy that you are on my podcast.

谢谢你邀请我。

Thank you for inviting me.

我们谈论这件事已经好几年了。我来这里，你拥有一个播客。

We've been talking about this for years. Me being here, you having a podcast.

是的。

Yes.

我真的为你感到骄傲。

And I'm really proud of you.

谢谢你。

Thank you.

因为我认为你非常勇敢，尽管之前出于种种原因长期犹豫不决，但最终还是下定决心迈出了这一步。看看现在的你，看看我们。我懂的。

Because I think it's very brave of you to actually go ahead and pull the trigger and do this when you were so reluctant to do it for so long for so many reasons. And here you are and look at you. Here we are. I know.

你知道的，能邀请到你——很多人梦寐以求的嘉宾——何况你还是我的母亲。我们共同拍摄，你即将推出纪录片，还有关于你的书籍。对我来说，如果只是问些常规问题比如'你出生在哪里？''圣地亚哥怎么样？''你母亲是什么样的人？'

Well you know having you on obviously you are what many people aspire to have on any podcast but you're my mom and I feel like we film together and you have a documentary coming out one day and there's books about you. For me I felt like asking you the typical questions of Where were you born? Where were you born? How was San Diego? What's your mom like?

我觉得你的忠实粉丝早就知道这些。虽然我们可以简单带过，但我真正想探讨的是个有趣话题——人们总对我们家的相处模式赞不绝口。无论来自多子女家庭的人会说'天啊，你们让我想起我和妈妈兄弟姐妹'，或是独生子女会说'这就是我梦想中的家庭关系'。

I feel like people that are real fans of yours know those things. And so sure we might glaze over those things but I really thought an interesting topic that I feel is interesting and that people always ask me about. People are always praising us for our family dynamic. They always say whether they come from a family with a lot of siblings, they always are like, Oh my gosh, you remind me of my mom and my siblings. Or if they don't have siblings, they dream like that's their fantasy.

如果我有一群兄弟姐妹，这就是我渴望拥有的亲情模式。所以我觉得

If I had a bunch of siblings, that's the sibling dynamic and parent dynamic that I would love to have with my So I felt like

这期节目很适合聊聊我们的相处模式，你和孩子们的关系及其不同阶段。但你从小就想当母亲吗？当然。那曾是我的梦想，成长过程中我一直渴望拥有六个孩子。

it would be a great episode to talk to you about I think our dynamic, the dynamic that you have with your children and the many phases of that. But did you always dream about being a mother? Well yeah. I mean that was the dream. The dream for me when I was growing up, all I wanted to do was have six kids.

以至于我日夜都在想着这件事。我在脑海中规划好了一切。那曾是我的人生目标——结婚、组建家庭、养育六个孩子，从此幸福地生活。在我成长的那个年代，听起来可能像远古时期，那时没有手机，连彩色电视都几乎不存在。

So much so that I would think about it day and night. I had things planned out in my head. I wanted to be that was my goal in life, to get married and be able to raise a family, have six kids and live happily ever after. And in those days, you know when I was growing up, I sound like a dinosaur but there were no cell phones. There were no, I barely had color TV.

所以当时既没有真正的通讯工具，也没有可以比较或激励我的事物。我不清楚具体何时何地获得的启发，但当时我看《反斗小宝贝》《我爱露西》这些剧集，还有《摩登原始人》《杰森一家》等，它们向你展示的未来生活更偏向传统模式。作为50年代出生的孩子，尽管70年代才高中毕业，但我始终只想做一件事——养育孩子。高中毕业次年遇见你父亲时，我以为这就是梦想成真。

So there was no real form of communication or things to compare yourself to or things that inspired me. So I don't know where and when I got inspired but I was watching Leave It to Beaver and I Love Lucy and all those shows and The Flintstones and everything in between, The Jetsons and you just saw the future and your life as more traditional in those days. I was born in the 50s. I was a 50s baby and I think I kind of grew up like a 50s child even though I graduated high school in the 70s but all I ever wanted to do was have kids. So the year after I graduated from high school I met daddy and I just thought it was the dream.

生儿育女，然后幸福地共度余生。知道有趣的是什么吗？当我与你父亲离婚时，我想：天啊，怎么会偏离轨道这么远？我本该有六个孩子，那曾是我坚信的命运。

It was to have babies and sail off into the sunset. Do you know what's interesting? When I was getting divorced from your dad, I thought wow, how did that go so sideways? I was supposed to have six kids. I always thought that was my destiny.

这本该实现的。我为此祈祷，坚信不疑。所以当现实与预期不符时，我真的认为是自己搞砸了。至今我仍常思考这件事，那段经历给我最深刻的启示之一竟是这个。

That what was gonna happen. And I used to pray about it and I claimed it and it was gonna happen. So I really thought I messed up when there weren't six of you guys at the time. I think about that often. I thought how interesting that that was one of the main takeaways from that whole experience.

而且我觉得——虽然这么想可能有点疯狂——但你40岁和41岁时分别生下肯豆和凯莉。二十八年前或二十七年前，四十多岁生孩子是非常罕见的事。

And I think also maybe, and it's so crazy to think this, but you had Kendall and Kylie when you were 40 and 41. And twenty eight years ago or twenty seven years ago it was really rare for someone in their 40s to have children.

人们几乎要窃窃私语议论。就像禁忌话题：她40岁还要生孩子？疯了吗？虽然那个年龄生育在医学上没问题，但当时大家都觉得存在风险。

It was almost whispered about. Like taboo. Like she's 40 and she's gonna have a baby? Is she nuts? And then it was obviously safe to have babies at that age but everybody thought there was also some danger to it.

人们会质疑：怎么回事？40多岁还能怀孕？她的卵子不是早就耗尽了吗？这在当时极具争议性。

Like what's going on? How could she have a baby in her 40s? Aren't all her eggs gone? It was very controversial.

所以我敢肯定，连你可能都觉得这事已经没戏了。

So I'm sure even you probably thought that ship has sailed.

我不知道该怎么想。我以为自己立刻怀孕了然后又流产了。但在罗伯特出生前我也流产过一次。就在怀上罗伯前的几个月，我有过一次流产。然后在怀肯德尔之前又流产了一次。

I didn't know what to think. I thought I got pregnant right away and then had a miscarriage. But I also had a miscarriage right before Robert was born. So at a couple months, right before I got pregnant with Rob, I had a miscarriage. And then I had a miscarriage right before Kendall.

所以当我怀上肯德尔时，我们真的很努力尝试，因为我觉得这打不倒我。我要证明给我的身体看，你知道，这几乎像是一种挑战

So when I got pregnant with Kendall, we were really trying because I thought this isn't taking me down. I will show my body, you know, it's almost like a challenge

我觉得没人会质疑你的决心。大家都知道你当时是激光般专注。如果你说要做某件事，你就一定会做到。

I to get don't think anyone questions your determination. I think everyone knows if you I was laser focused. That laser If you say you're gonna do something, you're gonna do something.

如果有人建议，比如我读到喝冰茶、吃碱式水杨酸铋、喝三杯咖啡之类的偏方，不管什么建议我都会照做，只要能尝试怀孕。就像那些老掉牙的民间偏方

And if somebody said, if I read something that said drink iced tea or take Pepto Bismol or have three coffees or whatever somebody's recommendation was, I would do whatever it took to try and get pregnant. Like all these little Under old wives tales and

有一次你和前夫尝试时，那个...我是说...

the bed one time you and your ex husband were trying and that was I'm I'm

还在

still

抱歉，关于那件事我得去接受心理治疗。

sorry going to about therapy over that.

是啊，但你偷偷溜进了我的卧室。

Yeah but you snuck into my bedroom.

我当时在玩捉迷藏，没人找到我，然后我就摔倒了。

I was playing hide and go seek and nobody found me and I fell Well

你和弗朗西斯卡在一起。所以你们当时是在互相寻找对方吗？

you were with Francesca. So you apparently, who were you looking for each other?

你藏在我床底下，真恶心。

You were hiding under my bed. It was gross.

而且你没被抓到。你决定留在那里是因为听起来很刺激。结果你听了一堆不该听的，余生都要受折磨，这正是你应得的。很好。

And you didn't get caught. You decided to stay there because it sounded exciting. And you got an earful. And you being tortured for the rest of your life is exactly what you deserve. Great, well.

那些声音永远都不会离开你的。

Those sounds will never leave your.

不，他们不会的。等等，你是怎么

No, they won't. Wait how did

从那里出来的？我们是在床底下抓到你的吗

you get out of there? Did we catch you under the bed

还是不是？我跑了出来，你们就一脸疑惑地问那是什么？

or No I did you ran out and you guys were like what was that?

哦，所以我们当时并不知道

Oh so we didn't at the time know it

是你？是的，我跑出来了。因为一开始我们有点惊慌，还小声笑了。然后你们说好像听到了什么，我们就跑了。

was you? Yeah, well I ran out. Because at first we were like, I think we were like oh my god and a little giggling. And then you guys were like I think I hear something. And then when you guys said that we ran.

然后你们就问那是什么？那是谁？之后好一阵子没人来找我们，我想你们大概吓坏了，就像我一样

And then you're like what was that? Who was that? And no No one came to find us for a while because I think you guys were probably so mortified as I

可能只是在努力想对策。

was Probably trying just to figure out the game plan.

比如我们喜欢什么 我们喜欢什么

Like what do we Like what

我们该说我们在做什么？对，就说我们在摔跤吧。

do we say we were doing? Yeah. Let's say we were wrestling.

不，我知道发生了什么。

Yeah no. I knew what was happening.

那是场奥林匹克比赛。

It was an Olympic competition.

恶心，我都没法继续想这事了。

Gross, I can't even think about this anymore.

好吧，这像心理治疗一样。你要让我回忆每个童年创伤吗？

Okay, this is like a therapy session. Are you gonna make me go through every childhood trauma?

不，那是我的

No, that's my

最后帮你解决问题？不。说你满意了？

last And help you work it out? No. Tell you're satisfied?

如果考特妮在场可能会，但我现在挺好的。谢天谢地，我觉得自己没什么童年创伤。

If Courtney was here then that would but probably I'm good. Good. I don't feel like I have a lot of childhood traumas. Thank God.

我没有。那算一个。是啊。

I don't. That makes one. Yeah.

我觉得我和金应该处境相同。有意思的是——我特别讨厌别人把肯豆和凯莉称作我们同父异母的妹妹。不，她们就是我亲妹妹，我和她们一起出生成长。

I think, well me and Kim I think are in the same boat. And what I find interesting because I don't remember, I absolutely despise when people call Kendall and Kylie our half sisters. Yeah. Because I'm like no, those are my real sisters. I was born and raised with them.

每分每秒都在一起。所以听到别人那么说真的很冒犯。我想说，我们全家都讨厌这个说法。

Spent every minute with them. And so I really find that insulting when people say that about us. I'm interested in saying. None of us like that term.

我压根没想过这种说法。

I don't even think about that term.

我们从不这么称呼。但外人总爱这么说，我真的很反感...

We don't use that term. We never do but like just other people, I just hate when they

必须标记识别这种分歧。没错。我真的、真的很讨厌

Have to label recognize the divide. Right. I really, really hate

这个，而且我很少讨厌什么。但我觉得你做得特别好的是，我听很多重组家庭说，把前一段婚姻的孩子和现在的孩子融合起来特别难，但我记忆中我们之间从不需要这样。肯达尔和凯莉出生时我大概11、12岁，或者更小些，记不清了。

that and I don't hate a lot of things. But I think something that you did so well because I hear from so many blended families like it's so hard to integrate my first set of kids with the other set of kids but I don't remember there ever being with any one of us. I think Kendall and Kylie were born when I was maybe like 11 or 12 or Maybe something like younger, I don't know.

95年。你90年出生时五岁。我想我

95. You 90 were five. Think I

当时11岁。

was 11.

你那时11岁。

You were 11.

但我完全不记得需要专门讨论这个问题，甚至和父亲相处也是，感觉一切都很自然。我们一直保持着非常紧密的家庭关系，从未觉得

So but I don't remember ever there needing to be even a discussion or just even with my dad I felt like everything, I don't know we've always had this really strong family dynamic. We never felt like

不，你们所有人都在医院。我分娩的时候。

No, you were at the hospital All of us. When I gave birth.

所有所以

All So of

你们所有人都来了，就像在说‘这是你们的小妹妹’。就像这样，我们要一起回家。我们都在同一条船上。他睡在地板上。但是

you guys all came and it was like here's your baby sister. Like this is we're all going home together. We're all in this together. He's sleeping on the floor. But do

你有什么建议吗？我甚至不知道你有没有，因为对我们来说这不是，我不认为这是有条理或讨论过的。但对于那些试图融合家庭或对此感到紧张的人，你有什么建议吗？

you have any, I don't even know if you do because for us it was not, I don't think it was methodical or talked about. But do you have any tips for people that are trying to blend families or nervous about that?

你知道，我认为如果父母有两组，你知道，两个家庭，每个父母与别人有不同的孩子，那会有点不同。那有点不同。要真正融合孩子们会有点困难，如果孩子们相处得好，那显然会容易得多。但对于肯达尔和凯莉，我觉得我有两窝孩子，而且很自然，一个比另一个来得晚一点。从我和肯达尔怀孕的那天起，到我和凯莉怀孕的那天起，你们都是这样。

You know I think that it's a little bit different if you have parents with two sets of, you know, two families and each parent has a different set of children with somebody else. That's a little bit different. It's a little bit harder to really integrate the kids and if the kids get along, then that's obviously a lot easier. But with Kendall and Kylie, I felt like I had two litters of kids and it was just so natural that one just came a little bit later than the other. And it was you guys, I think from the day I got pregnant with Kendall and the day I got pregnant with Kylie.

你们参与了每一个讨论，每一次医生的预约，装饰婴儿房，我们住哪里，因为我们现在要找更大的房子，那是那一年。'96年，就在肯达尔出生后，凯莉出生前，我们搬到了隐山。这一切都是为了找到这个大房子，每个人都可以有自己的卧室。你知道，我认为当我们从医院带回家第五个孩子的那一刻，我想你已经爱上了你的妹妹，其他人也是。你知道，从来没有想过她不属于我。

You guys were so involved in every discussion, every doctor's appointment, decorating the nursery, where we were gonna live because we were looking for now we had to get a bigger house and that was the year. '96, right after Kenda was born and before Kylie was born, we moved to Hidden Hills. And it was all about finding this big massive house that everybody could have their own bedroom. You know I think the minute that we came home from hospital with number five, I think you were in love with your sister and so was everybody else. And you know, there was never a thought of she doesn't belong to me.

她不是我的。这是我的妹妹。每个人都那么保护和爱护。我们做什么都在一起。没有人被落下。

She's not mine. This is my sister. And everybody was so protective and loving. We did everything together. And nobody was ever left out.

甚至你爸爸也没有。你爸爸在我们之前就来了，你知道，显然是在肯达尔出生的时候，他只是想让我们知道，也想让你们知道，我是罗伯特叔叔。

Not even your dad. Your dad came over way before we, you know obviously when Kenda was born and he just wanted us to know and you guys to know, I'm Uncle Robert.

我真的认为这始终与父母有关，我一直强调这一点。是的，

I really think what it has to do with, and I always say this, is the parents. Yeah,

百分之百同意。

1100100000%.

如果孩子们看到所有父母都认为这是正常且可以接受的，那么孩子们就会觉得这没问题。是的。因为我认为仇恨之类的情感都是后天习得的，并非与生俱来。

If children see that this is normal and okay by all parents, everybody involved then the kids are like okay this is okay. Yeah. Because I think hatred and all of that stuff is learned that's not innate in anybody.

你知道，我觉得这会给孩子们带来太多创伤、不快乐和高度焦虑。人们总是小心翼翼地顾及父母的感受，但这真的不该是孩子的责任。作为父母，我们的责任是让你们感受到被爱和舒适。

You know, I think it causes so much trauma to the children and unhappiness and just being very anxious. A lot of anxiety and people really trying to tiptoe around parents' feelings. And that's really not the child's responsibility. It's really for us as parents to make you guys feel loved and comfortable.

从我与特里斯坦共同育儿的亲身经历来看，我们能成为如此默契的搭档，正是源于我从小到大见证的榜样——从你和我父亲的相处模式，到布鲁斯和我父亲的互动方式，这些就是我全部的认知。所以对我来说这是理所当然的事。我确实认为即使没有这样的榜样，你也可以独自做到，但当你拥有这个榜样时，它就会深植于你的骨髓，变得轻而易举。我认为这是最宝贵的经验之一，因为我的孩子们因此生活在如此平和的环境中。

Well I know from my personal experience with Tristan and how we're such good co parenters is because of the example that I've had my whole life. From you and my dad's dynamic to Bruce and my dad's dynamic and it's all I saw. So for me it was a no brainer. And I do really think that yes you don't need that example, you can do it on your own but when you have that example it's all you know and it's just embedded in you and it's so easy. For that obvious, it's I think one of the best lessons because it's so peaceful for my children.

平和就是

Peaceful is

一个极其重要而有力的词汇，因为它真正阻隔了分裂、创伤和恶意。就像筑起了一道墙，把那些负面事物完全挡在外面，因为你正在向孩子们展示如何共同创造美好的生活。正是如此。孩子们渴望感受到被爱。

such a great, important, powerful word because it really does, you don't let the divide and the trauma and the nastiness come in at all. It's almost like you've built a wall where none of that can get in because you're showing your kids how to live To this amazing do with them. Life together. And this has, exactly. And they want to feel loved.

孩子们需要感受到关爱，听着，作为母亲，我的全部职责就是确保你们安全，在一个特别的地方感受到被爱与安心。这对我而言是最重要的事。你知道吗？我们甚至从未正式坐下来讨论过这点，尽管我觉得如果情况恶化，我们迟早会谈。但我认为离婚后，人们总需要一段冷静期来接受现实——比如意识到无法与对方共度余生。但当你们共同育有孩子时，你们就永远被联系在一起了。

Children want to feel, you guys, all my job as a mom was to make sure you were safe and you felt loved and secure in a really special place. And that was the most important thing to me. And you know what, it wasn't even something that we sat down and talked about although I feel like we would have if it got nasty or anything at some point. But I think that when people get divorced, I feel like there's always a cooling off period where people have to find and their come to terms with what's just happened and maybe the fact that you're not gonna be with this person forever. But when you have kids with somebody, you are with that person.

是的，你们这辈子都会紧密相连。这就是我一贯的生活方式，我曾与你父亲分享一切。度过我所谓的冷静期后，我们反而成了最好的朋友。搬到隐山后，肯豆出生，接着是凯莉，你们还是11岁的孩子或青少年时，他总会随时从后门进来问：晚饭吃什么？

You're connected forever for the rest of your life in my Yes, of course. And that's how I've always lived my life and I would share everything with your dad. And then after we had our cooling off period is what I like to call it, we became best friends. And he would come once we moved to Hidden Hills and Kendall was born and then Kylie followed and you guys were young 11 year olds or teenagers and all that, he'd come walking in the back door at any time. What's for dinner?

圣诞节清晨他在场，你们生日时他在场。我们共同举办派对，协办你们所有的活动。他想参与每个重要时刻，连筹备过程也不愿错过。

He'd be there Christmas morning. He'd be there on your birthdays. We'd give our parties. We would co host everything that you guys did. And he just wanted to be a part of every special moment and wanted to a part of the planning of it too.

我会打电话问他：'罗布要从幼儿园毕业了，我们去哪儿庆祝？'四岁时你们在托儿所的演出，他也全程参与。那时我们还维持着婚姻，但重点是——他始终渴望出现在你们人生的每个片段里。

I would call him up and go, Hey, Rob's graduating from this or that. Where are we going to go? Or from kindergarten he would be a part of the recital when you were four years old in nursery school. We were still married then. But he was a part of all of those moments and what I mean is he still wanted to be a part of every single moment.

他参加肯豆和凯莉的生日派对，你们知道的，以罗伯特舅舅的身份。那段时光非常特别，而这一切带来的最好结果就是——你们明白养育孩子需要整个社区的协作。

He came to Kendall and Kylie's birthday parties. I know. You know as Uncle Robert. So it was a pretty special time and I think that the best thing that happened because of all of that was you guys, it takes a village.

但需要所有志同道合的大人。我认为人们应该把自我和矛盾搁置，为了孩子的长远发展着想——这真的会带来巨大改变。

But it takes all like minded adults. It's And I a think people would put their own ego and issues aside for the betterment of children because it makes such a difference in the long run.

人们总想成为赢家，却意识不到——无论离婚的导火索是什么，无论争执为何，你必须决定以另一种方式守住曾经的爱。这就是我们的选择。

I don't think people realize that them winning everybody wants to win. Whatever the argument was, whatever the, you know, the reason for the divorce, whatever. You just have decide that you wanna kinda hang on to the love that you once had, but in just a different way. And that's what we did.

这就是残酷的真相。超市货架上堆满了含有隐蔽添加剂和连发音都困难的成分的产品。购买健康食品本不该如此令人困扰。这就是为什么我热爱Thrive Market，这家在线健康食品商店将高品质必需品直接送到我家门口。我可以安心购物，因为Thrive Market拥有业内最高的质量标准。

Here's the ugly truth. Grocery store shelves are packed with products full of hidden additives and ingredients we can't even pronounce. Grocery shopping for healthy food shouldn't be this overwhelming. That's why I love Thrive Market, the online healthy grocery store that delivers high quality essentials right to my door. I can shop with peace of mind because Thrive Market has the highest quality standards in the industry.

他们的内部专家禁用了1000多种可疑成分，比如人工香精、合成色素和对羟基苯甲酸酯。所以我知道我买到的是不含垃圾成分的最佳有机和可持续品牌。我离不开的一个功能是他们的'健康替代'扫描器。只需扫描你喜爱的产品，它就会立即推荐更健康的替代品。我们已经把旧的超加工零食换成了新的即时最爱，比如Goodles高蛋白通心粉奶酪和Simple Mills无麸质饼干。

Their in house experts restrict over 1,000 sketchy ingredients like artificial flavors, synthetic dyes, and parabens. So I know I'm getting the best organic and sustainable brands without the junk. One feature I cannot live without is their Healthy Swap scanner. Just scan a product you already love and it instantly recommends healthier alternatives. We've swapped out our old ultra processed snacks for new instant favorites, like Goodles high protein mac and cheese and Simple Mills gluten free crackers.

说实话，我的孩子们根本没注意到区别。这是我新的妈妈秘籍。无论我想要高蛋白、有机还是低糖产品，他们的筛选功能让我轻松发现许多完美适合我们生活方式的新宠。最棒的部分是什么？Thrive Market提供比超市价格优惠高达30%的折扣。

And honestly, my kids haven't noticed the difference. It's my new secret mom hack. Whether I want high protein, organic, or low sugar, their filters make it easy to discover so many new favorites that fit perfectly in our lifestyle. And the best part? Thrive Market offers savings up to 30% off grocery store prices.

通过快速的碳中和运输，所有商品都能直接送到我家。准备好尝试了吗？访问thrivemarket.com/chloe，首次订单可享30%折扣外加60美元免费礼品。再次提醒，访问thrivemarket.com/chloe，首次订单30%折扣加60美元免费礼品。

And with fast carbon neutral shipping, everything gets delivered right to my door. Ready to give it a try? Head to thrivemarket.com/chloe to get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. Again, that's thrivemarket.com/chloe to get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift.

所以可以说，你、我爸爸和Bruce是共同抚养我们所有人的搭档。我认为你们三人都做得非常出色。然后我爸爸

So you and my dad and Bruce were, I would say, partners raising all of us. And I think all three of you guys did an incredible job. And then my dad

谢谢。

Thank you.

在2003年2月去世了。所以我觉得你一直有那个人可以依靠。我爸爸去世时，我弟弟16岁，我19岁，Courtney和Kim刚20出头。你知道当那个人突然被夺走时——作为一个原本有依靠的家长（是的我们还有Bruce，但亲生父亲不在的情况终究不同），你的角色是如何改变的？

Died in 02/2003. And so I think you always had that person to lean on. My dad died, my brother was 16, I was 19, and I forget Courtney and Kim in their young 20s. And you know having that person I think just really abruptly taken away, how did your role change of being a parent that had, yes we still had Bruce but it is different when our real dad is And not

他在你们的生活中如此真实存在，是我们日常的重要组成部分。所以不仅仅是像‘哦，你爸爸住在爱荷华州，他不常出现或者他不在身边’那样。他在情感上对你们非常支持，对我也同样如此。这对我来说意义重大，因为他总是在那里。当我再婚时，布鲁斯没有多少钱，我也没有，我们正在努力凑钱，大家一起支付私立学校的费用和各种开销。

he was also was so present in your lives and such a big part of our day to day. So it wasn't just like, oh your dad lives in Iowa and he's not around very much or he's not unavailable. He was emotionally available to you guys in such a big way. And he was emotionally available to me. And that really meant the world to me because he was always there and when I got remarried, Bruce didn't have a lot of money and I didn't have a lot of money and we were trying to put it together and we were all collectively paying for private school and all these different things.

但你爸爸做过的最有趣、最美好的一件事是，当我经历这些时，他常常开玩笑地唠叨我的内曼·马库斯账单。哦，是的。每个月都是内曼的账单。‘哦，她和她的内曼账单，她还在用我的内曼卡。’

But one of the funniest things and one of the nicest, most lovely things that your dad did was when I was going through this, your dad used to kind of jokingly harp on me for my Neiman Marcus bill. Oh yeah. So every month it was the Neiman's bill. Oh her and the Neiman's bill, she's still using my Neiman's card.

对，我正想说那是他的卡，没错。

Right I was gonna say it was his card then, yes.

是啊，我们聊聊

Yeah, Let's talk

这个有共鸣的话题

about this relatable

故事好吧，但不管怎样，那是一张信用卡。我花太多钱了。后来我再婚时，我记得有一次他问我需要什么吗？我知道那边情况很疯狂。我说如果你愿意帮我支付——现在我有自己的内曼卡了。

story Okay, but anyway it was a charged card. I was spending too much money. And so later when I was remarried, I remember one time he goes do you need anything? I know it's crazy over there. And I said well if you want to help me pay my, and now I had my own Neiman's card.

我问他这个月你能付账单吗？他说当然。那个月他付了我的内曼卡账单，我永远不会忘记。我们还为此笑了。他说如果几年前有人告诉我，这么多年后我还在付你的内曼·马库斯账单或你的衣服账单。

And I asked him would you pay the bill this month? And he goes sure. And he paid my Neiman's card bill that month and I'll never forget it. And we laughed about that. He goes if you woulda told me years ago that I would still be paying your Neiman Marcus bill or your clothing bill all these years later.

所以我们当时都笑得很开心。但我认为，当你们互相支持、共同抚养孩子、彼此陪伴、像团队一样合作时，这种感觉真的很棒。我们所有人都清楚地意识到了这一点。那可是很多人啊，我是说六个孩子确实不少。

And so we got a good laugh out of that. But I just think that when you're supportive and you can raise kids together and be there for one another and do it as a team. It was definitely something where we were all aware of. That's a lot of people. I mean six kids is a lot of kids.

他非常清楚我当时在忙得团团转。顺便说一句，我和你的关系在生下肯豆后彻底改变了，因为你真正成长起来开始帮我分担——你就像我的小助手，是妈妈的帮手。那时我在家工作，无论你放学回家还是周末，总会帮我照顾肯豆，后来还有凯莉，这彻底改变了我的生活，因为我们没有保姆。有人帮我做家务，有人协助照顾孩子，让我能安心在家办公。但我最记得的是你和弟弟妹妹们那种特别的亲密，你如此爱他们，知道我需要帮助，总能想出无数办法逗他们开心。

And he was really well aware of the fact that I was juggling. And by the way, my relationship with you changed the minute I had Kendall because you really grew up and came to bat for me because you were like my little helper. You were Mama's helper because I was working from home and whenever you came home from school or on the weekends, you always helped me with Kendall and then Kylie which changed my world because we didn't have a nanny. I had somebody to help me with housework and stuff and somebody to help which then turned into somebody helping with the kids while I was working in my home office. But I just remember you had this amazing bond with them, the little ones, because you were so in love with them and you knew I could use the help and you found a gazillion ways to entertain them.

你确实做到了。你给他们喂饭、洗澡、帮忙穿睡衣，带他们散步，陪他们在户外游戏屋玩耍或游泳，什么都做。这不仅让你和他们建立了深厚感情，也让我们母女关系更紧密，因为那时肯豆和凯莉已经搬出去了。我是说，考特尼和金伯利——考特尼去上大学了，而卡姆突然跑去结婚，我还是后来考特尼在网上发现的，当时真是让人震惊。

You really did. You'd feed them, you'd bathe them, you'd help put on their pajamas, you'd take them for walks, you'd play with them in their playhouse outside or you'd swim with them or whatever it was. And I think that not only made your bond with them so strong but our bond so strong because you were doing something that Kendall and Kylie were out the house by then. I mean Courtney and Kimberly were Courtney went to college and Cam ran off and got married and I didn't find out for a minute until Courtney found it on the internet. So that was wild.

我们确实一起经历了不少疯狂的事。

I mean we've been through some wild stuff together.

嗯。我觉得这确实能让家人更亲密。爸爸去世后，你作为家长的角色有发生变化吗？如果没有的话，

Mhmm. I think that does make a family close. Did you feel a shift of your role as a parent when my dad passed away? And if you didn't,

也没关系。我感受到巨大的转变和责任重担。那时我必须告诉自己：好吧，现在我要既当妈又当爹。所有曾经由我们共同做的决定现在都要独自完成——因为无论发生什么，我们以前总会商量关于你们的所有事情，一起做决定。比如学校的选择。

that's fine. I felt a huge shift and a huge responsibility. And now it was you have to say, okay, I'm the mom and the dad. I have to make the decisions that him and I used to make together because no matter what happened, him and I would always discuss whatever was going on with you guys and make decisions together. School decisions.

我记得在他去世前，罗伯和他住在一起。我们有个疯狂的计划：他会负责确保罗伯准备好大学入学考试，填写所有申请南加大和其他目标院校的材料。我当时还想：太棒了，这是你的专长领域，真高兴由你来处理。那大概是2003年初，他愿意为罗伯做这些让我如释重负。

I remember before he passed, Rob was living with him and we had this really crazy plan that he was going to make sure Rob was prepared and prepped for college and for the college exams and filling out all the paperwork to get into USC and different colleges that he wanted to apply to. And I thought, Oh great. This is your lane. I'm so happy this is happening. This was early like 2003 and it was such a relief to me that he wanted to be there for Rob.

当他离开时，我完全不知所措。我不像那样学术型。我不是那个和罗布一起做作业的人。我甚至不知道怎么做高中作业。我的意思是，那完全超出了我擅长或能帮助别人的领域。

And when he passed, I was lost. I am not scholastic like that. I wasn't the one who was doing homework with Rob. I wouldn't know how to do high school homework. I mean that was like so out of my realm of things that I would be good at or help somebody Sometimes else

在做一年级作业时，我就在想，什么是新加坡数学？

when doing first grade homework and I'm like what is Singapore Math?

我知道，嗨。新加坡数学？我完全不懂那是什么。

I know, hello. Singapore Math? I don't know what that is.

没错。好吧。试试看。不，总有一天我要让你也做做看。

Exactly. Okay. Try it. No. I'm gonna make you do it one day.

不，等等，普通的加法去哪了？

No. Like excuse me, what happened to just regular addition?

一加一等于二。但他在帮助你弟弟成熟、度过青春期方面真的起了关键作用。我对女孩的事一清二楚，但男孩的事就有点...你知道，我当时想，罗布肯定能搞定。

One plus one. Know. Well he was really instrumental in just helping your brother mature and go through those teenage years of his life and I knew the girl thing inside and out But the boy thing was a bit, you know, I just thought oh Rob's got this. Do

你觉得罗伯特认为你更像女孩的妈妈还是男孩的妈妈？或者你能适应两者吗？

you Robert's think got you're more of a girl mom or a boy mom? Or can you adapt to both?

我学会了如何适应两者。是的。我觉得自己更像是个女孩的妈妈。但后来罗布成了最可爱、完美、风趣、有爱又运动型的男孩。我的意思是，他具备了一切特质，虽然他是个男孩，但

I learned how to adapt to both. Yeah. I think I was more of a girl mom. But then Rob was the most adorable, perfect, funny, loving, athletic. I mean he was just everything that, he was a boy, but

完全是个男孩样。你最喜欢孩子的哪个成长阶段？比如我就不是特别迷恋婴儿时期的

all boy. What is your favorite stage of a kid? Like I'm not a huge infant type of

人。人？

person. Person?

虽然我喜欢婴儿，但我会想'好了我们能做点别的吗？' 我超爱

Like I like infants but I'm like alright can we do something? I love

婴儿阶段。我喜欢他们身上的味道，喜欢搂抱的感觉。你们都是天使除了考特妮。天啊。

the infant stage. I love the way they smell. I love the cuddling. You guys were such angels except Courtney. Oh gosh.

什么给她留下更多心理阴影？她见人就吐。所有人。我们总调不对奶粉配方。那段日子很艰难，但熬过去后，我觉得自己最爱新生儿阶段。

What give her more trauma? She just threw up on everybody. Everybody. We couldn't get that formula right. So that was challenging but after I got through that, I think I love the baby baby stage.

然后当他们刚开始学走路时，对我来说总需要适应期，因为我们家总有楼梯和很多活动，我得追着四个小孩满屋跑。简直疯了。

Then when they first learned to walk, that always used to be an adjustment for me because we always had stairs and a lot going on and it was running around trying to chase four little kids around. It was nuts.

对我来说，目前最大的困扰——我不知道，我得把这个说出来。好吧。就是我对青少年阶段有种焦虑和积累的压力。我知道自己当年有多像个恐怖分子

I think for me, my biggest, right now I don't know, I gotta get this out of my head. Okay. Is that I have this anxiety and this build up about the teenage stage. I know what a terrorist I was as

克洛伊，你当年可真是狂野。

Chloe, a you were wild.

我知道。

I know.

你既火辣又疯狂。

You were spicy and crazy.

这个

This

是你以前，什么？克洛伊。你们每个人大概都经历了十八个月的地狱周。哇哦。我称之为地狱周，但实际上有十八个月。

is You a used to, What? Chloe. So each one of you probably had a good eighteen months of hell week. Wow. I called it hell week but it was really eighteen months.

顺便说下，你以前常做的一件事是，我们有间卧室，你那间卧室带露台，你却让我睡楼下

And one of the things you used to do regularly, I might add, was we had a bedroom, you had a bedroom that had a patio off You put me downstairs

因为其他孩子占了我的房间，所以我搬到了楼下。

because the other kids took my room so I moved downstairs.

好吧，婴儿们需要住在楼上，这没问题。你在楼下，我认为你是个相当成熟的年轻女孩，但你也很富有创造力和机智，你过去常常把被子塞得像有人在下面睡觉一样，锁上门，离开房间但锁上门，然后你就走了。我不知道你什么时候回来或怎么回来的，但这种情况持续了一段时间，我都被骗了，直到有一天晚上我想，她不可能这么乖，每天晚上8点自己上床睡觉，直到第二天早上7点才出房间。我们不得不破门而入，那时才发现你一直在塞被子然后溜出去。还有一次我至今难忘，甚至有点生气的是，你和某人交朋友。

Well the babies needed to be up That's by fine. You're downstairs and I think you're a pretty mature young lady but you're also very creative and resourceful and you used to stuff your bed as if it was a person sleeping under the covers, lock your door, leave the room but lock that door and then you would leave. And I don't know when you came back or how you got back in but this went on for a minute and I fell for it until one night I just thought there's no way she's this good of a kid and puts herself to bed every night at 08:00 and doesn't come out of that room until 07:00 the next morning. And we had to break into your room and that's when we found out that you had been stuffing your bed and leaving. And then another time that I still can't get out of my head and I'm sort of like a little angry about it is you were friends.

我们就说你和某人交朋友吧。

Let's call it you were friends.

好吧。

Okay.

你过去常常为他们做饭。

With somebody. You used to cook for them.

你是要提那些该死的锅吗

Are you gonna talk about the fucking pots

你拿走的那些锅和盘子，我还是放不下。我无法释怀，真的无法释怀。

You that you took still don't want pots and pans. Can't let it go. I cannot let it go.

给你买新的

Buy you new

我有锅碗瓢盆，但你拿走了我在塔巷最爱用的那套炊具。那是我煮抓饭的专用锅，你却拿走了我的抓饭锅

pots I and have pots and pans but you took my favorite pots and pans from Tower Lane that I used to make. That was my pilav pan and you took my pilav pan

我该怎么做才能弥补？因为你每周都要提这件事。我知道。我能怎么办？

What over I to do you to make this up to? Because you bring this up on a weekly basis. I know. What can do?

没办法。好吧，那我们

There's nothing. Okay so we're

就永远纠结这件事吧。

just gonna talk about it forever.

反正现在场合正合适。这是

Well we're in the right forum. Is the It

每周必提的破事，该死的抓饭锅。

happens once a week, the fucking pilaf pan.

好吧，那个抓饭锅是我最喜欢的锅。

Okay well the pilaf So that was my favorite pan.

我得做点什么

I gotta do But something

我跟你说过，我的抓饭锅去哪了？我每周要做两次抓饭。而你好像完全不知道抓饭锅神奇消失的事。你

about I said to you where's my pilaf pan? I went to go make pilaf, I made pilaf twice a week. And you like did not know where the pilaf magically disappears. You

它是蓝色的，对吧？

It was were blue, right?

蓝色。那个带透明玻璃盖的蓝色抓饭锅，我过去常用它做抓饭，我对那个锅非常满意。我用得很顺手，那是完美的炊具。而你居然拿走了我的锅，我叫你去那人家把锅拿回来，你就是不肯。

Blue. The blue pilaf pan with the clear top, the clear glass lid and I used to make my pilaf and I was so happy with that pan. I wore it in, it was the perfect cookware And you just really took my pan and I asked you, just go to the guy's house and get the pan back. You just wouldn't.

我就是不愿意

I just wouldn't

去做。对，你不肯。但后来我的

do it. No you wouldn't. But then my

感觉在这集结束时我们该像‘纪念普洛夫乐队’那样来个悼念环节。

phone feel like at the end of this episode we should be like in loving memory to the Plov band.

安息吧。

RIP.

是啊。

Yeah.

还有我那部欠费6000美元的手机——当初手机刚普及时你把我的手机借给别人了。我问‘我手机呢？’然后我又问‘我手机去哪了？’我觉得要么...

And my phone with the $6,000 bill that you loaned my phone to somebody when cell phones first became a thing. And I said where's my phone? Did. And I said where's my phone? And I think or

是有人发现手机丢了才这么干的？

You somebody did it noticed from that had a cell phone missing?

手机丢了。所以我正在找，不得不买新手机，结果收到账单时...

It was lost. So now I'm looking for it, had to get a new phone and when I got the bill.

谁会欠6000美元话费啊？我总觉得这事不对劲

Who has a $6,000 cell phone bill? I'm not sure about this

故事。它来自欧洲。哇，我太时髦了。

story. It was from Europe. Wow I'm so chic.

谁知道呢？我知道欧洲人有什么。

Who knew? I knew who people from Europe had.

有人把手机带到欧洲，用我的手机花了一大笔钱。我就想，这些都是她的朋友。你祖母常说，告诉我你的朋友，我就知道你会成为什么样的人。我看着这些朋友，他们连抓饭锅都拿走了。

Somebody took the phone to Europe and charged all this money on my phone. I'm like these are her friends. So your grandmother used to say show me your friends and I'll show you who you're gonna be. And I was like these friends, they're taking the pilaf pan.

还把手机带去了欧洲。他们听起来既时髦又有教养。知道该拿什么。很可能就是他们。是啊，他们知道该拿什么。很可能就是他们。

And the phone to Europe. And they sound pretty chic and cultured. They know what to take. They probably were. Yeah they know what to They probably were.

总之你给了

Anyway you gave

我一次

me a run

激烈的竞争。我当时...而你...你这是在证实我应该对青少年阶段感到恐惧。完全正确。感觉对你来说总是那么轻松自如。我也想为听众们请教，有什么建议吗？

for my money. I was And you were You're confirming that I should be terrified of the teenage phase. Absolutely. I feel like it was always what it seemed, so seamless for you. And I would love even for myself, for the listeners out there, what are some tips?

比如你如何管教孩子？因为我们一起喝酒，我是说我现在40岁了，但存在那个过渡期，你得适应，好吧这很正常。我女儿在晚餐时点葡萄酒但她已成年。不知道，这对你来说是否曾觉得奇怪？

Like how do you handle your children? Because we drink together, I mean now I'm 40 but there is that, I would think there's that transitional period that you have to, okay this is normal. My daughter's ordering wine at dinner but she's of age. Don't know, does that, was that ever strange for you?

你知道吗，我记得你们渐渐长大时，我女友总说，她常对我发火，觉得我不够严厉。我不像她那样或她认为应有的严苛管教者。而我会对她说，但我想按自己的方式做。要知道，可这些不是你的朋友啊。你太像朋友了。

You know what, I remember when you guys were getting a little bit older and my girlfriend used to say, she used to get so mad at me because she felt like I wasn't tough enough. I wasn't the disciplinarian that she was or that she thought was appropriate. And I would say to her, But I want to do this my way. You know, Well, these aren't your friends though. You're too much of a friend.

你不是家长。我说，哦不，我是家长。但我没有怀胎九月生下他们，抚养他们至今，现在他们即将成年或步入青春期，就放任不管只当个普通家长。他们将是我余生的灵魂伴侣。

You're not the parent. I said, Oh, no. I'm the parent. But I didn't carry these kids around for nine months in my body and then give birth to them and raise them and come this far and now they're young adults or they're gonna be a teenager soon to just let it all go and just be their parent and that's the end. These are gonna be my soulmates for the rest of my life.

我希望与每个孩子建立专属的爱的语言。因为你们如此不同，却又血脉相连，我们如此相似。我认为正是这份深爱让我们亲密无间，但这一直是核心理念。我总说上帝第一，家庭第二，其余都是其次。我就是这样教育你们的。

I want to be able to find our own love language with each one of my kids. Because you guys are all so different, but yet we have a thread, we're all so alike. And I think that that's what makes us so close is we love each other so much, but that was always the lesson. You know, I always said God first, family second, and everything else comes after that. And I taught you and raised you like that.

我们去教堂，你们蹒跚学步时我就带你们参加圣经学习，等你们稍大后继续灌输这些信仰与灵性观念，因为我认为这是成长的重要部分，也塑造了我们现今的生活方式。我们信仰上帝，每日祷告，你每周四晚在家带着孩子们和表亲们研读圣经。祷告在我们家至关重要，我们事事祈祷。这真正构成了我们的核心特质。而与你们每个人的爱的语言又各有不同，我尊重你们的个性，同时让你们知道我是永远的安全网。

We went to church and I took you to Bible study when you were a toddler and when you got a little bit older and tried to instill those types of belief and spirituality because I think it's a huge part of growing up and it's how we live our lives now. We believe in God and we say our prayers and you have bible study at your house on Thursday nights with your kids and all the cousins. Think prayer is so important in our family and we all pray a lot about everything And I really think that's an important part of who we all are. And then I think that just our love language, my love language with each one of you is just a little bit different. And I find that seeing each one of you and letting you be who you are while at the same time you know that I'm your safety net.

这方面你做得非常出色。这很不容易。

Well you do an excellent job at that. It's hard.

确实不容易。我觉得最难的是孩子开始谈恋爱的时候。我

It is hard. I think the hardest part would be when your kids start dating. I

我想我天生就是个对你们带回家的任何人都会热情欢迎的人。是的。无论是流浪猫还是四年级的同学，或者随着你们长大开始约会。突然间你们开始谈恋爱了。随之而来的挑战确实有时考验了我控制脾气的能力。

think by nature I was a very welcoming person to whoever you guys brought home. Yes. Whether it was a stray cat or a guy from fourth grade or as you guys got older, it was the dating. Suddenly you were dating. And the challenges that come with that definitely tested my ability to control my temper sometimes.

我常气得发疯，因为你们会试图耍那些小花招，或者偷偷约会，直到后来你们意识到我们其实很开明，就把所有人都带回家。我们家成了大家都喜欢来玩的地方。当你们和某人变得非常亲密时，我们会张开双臂欢迎他们加入这个家庭。我们共度欢乐时光，关系亲密，与家人和你们的伴侣都建立了深厚的情谊，这真的很美好。但当你们分手时，我感觉自己也经历了一场分手。

I'd be so mad that you guys would try to pull the stuff that you would pull or the dating that you tried to do until I think you realized we're all good, bring everybody here. And we became the house that everybody liked to hang out at. When you guys would become very close to somebody, we welcome them into our family with open arms. We have the time of our lives, we're close, we have very intimate relationships with all of the people in our family and the people that you guys are dating and it's really fun. But when you guys break up with somebody, I feel like I break up with Totally.

我会感到非常难过，就像'哇，这是我们生命中多么疯狂的时光啊'。我无法相信他们再也不在这里了，因为有时我会完全沉浸在你们的快乐中，或是你们想要建立自己生活、家庭的渴望里。当感情破裂时，我的心也碎了。要知道，伤你心的事同样会伤我的心。

It's so feel sad for like wow, this was such a crazy time in our lives. I can't believe they're not here anymore because sometimes I get caught up in your joy or your desire to want to build yourself, your life, your family. And then when it doesn't work out, I'm heartbroken too. You know when something breaks your heart, it breaks my heart.

我也觉得自己很宽容。我们可以骂某某是混蛋，做了哪些坏事，然后说再也不理他们了。结果下周又和好如初，而你就会说'好吧'。你总是轻易原谅，要是我可能会...

I also feel very forgiving because we can be like so and so is a piece of shit and did X, Y and Z and then we're like we're never talking to them again. And then next week we're like okay we're back with this person and you're like okay. Yeah here we go. And you're very forgiving where I would be like I'm

就像'知道吗干掉那个什么？'那句话怎么说来着？当你对某人非常生气或积累了很多怨恨时，真正受到伤害的其实只有你自己。

like You know kill that what? It's the what did they say? The only person when you get really angry with somebody or you get you know, you build up all this hatred towards somebody. The only person it's really hurting is yourself.

大家好，我是杰玛·斯佩克。如果你喜欢听克洛伊和克里斯畅谈家庭、人生教训以及生活点滴，那你一定会爱上我的播客《真言》。就像克洛伊和克里斯反思他们的关系、个人成长和共同奋斗的事业，《真言》讲述的正是如何拥抱变化，有意识地自我进化。每周一，我都会解读一个新的生活箴言——简单却充满力量，帮助你在爱情、事业或个人成长的转折中找到方向。

Hey. It's Gemma Speck. And if you loved hearing Chloe and Chris open up about family, life lessons, and everything in between, then you'll love my podcast, Mantra. Just like Chloe and Chris reflect on their relationship, personal growth, and building something bigger than themselves, mantra is all about embracing change and evolving with intention. Every Monday, I break down a new mantra, something simple but powerful to help you navigate your own life transitions, whether it's in love, career, or personal growth.

这就像每周一次的自我沉淀与重启。如果今天的节目让你思考那些塑造我们的人生课程，请收听《真言》获取新鲜见解、深度反思和实用建议，助你目标明确地继续前行。《真言》是Open Mind原创节目，由Pave Studios制作，新集每周一更新。只需在任意播客平台搜索'真言'即可订阅。

It's like your weekly check-in to stay grounded and reset. So if today's episode has you thinking about the lessons that shape us, tune into Mantra for fresh insights, reflections, and practical takeaways to help you move forward with purpose. Mantra is an open mind original powered by Pave Studios, and new episodes drop every Monday. Just search Mantra wherever you listen to podcasts.

我记得大概15岁的时候，那时还没有驾照，我偷开了布鲁斯的远征车，在101号公路靠近405号公路交叉口的地方行驶。那里有个小弯道，可能我稍微打偏了方向，结果被警察拦下。当时我穿着一条Forever 21的可爱裙子，绝对记得那条裙子，后面会解释为什么印象深刻。

I remember when I was, I wanna say 15, I didn't have a license yet, and I stole Bruce's expedition and I was driving on the 101 by the 405, like right where it crosses over. And it's like a little turn anyway so I guess I swerved a little and I got pulled over. And I was wearing a really cute skirt from Forever twenty one. For sure. And I'll mention why I remember that skirt.

警察问我要驾照和登记证，我说哦我还没驾照，但我的名字是...我记得当时报了考特妮·卡戴珊的名字，生日却报了金姆的。他们当然识破我在撒谎，让我下车，最后我被带进了警局。

And I remember the police officer was like, can I have your license and registration? And I said oh I don't have my license but my name is, I think I said Kourtney Kardashian but my birthday is, and I gave Kim's birthday. So of course they were like you're lying, get out of the car, I got taken to jail.

我

I

记得后来我被带到警局，他们晚上九、十点钟打电话给你。其实不算正式关押，只是待在分局等你来接。车子被扣留了，你一来就骂我：'你脑子进水了吗？看看你穿的超短裙，简直像站街女。'虽然当着所有人面数落我，但转头又说'她其实是个好女孩'。

remember So I went to jail and they called you and it was I don't know like nine or ten at night. And I just, they took me, I didn't go to jail, they took me to a precinct or whatever just until you came to pick me up. And they impounded the car and you were like what's wrong with you? Look at this short skirt you're wearing, you look like you could have been a hooker. This is all private, like in front of everyone you were like, oh she's a great girl.

你当时表现得特别体贴，对警察说'青少年嘛'、'姐妹之间'之类的话。最后他们只给了警告就放我们走，你也没告诉布鲁斯他的车被扣留30天。我们还编了个故事搪塞过去，因为你说'我记得...'

You were so sweet, teenagers, I don't know why she did that, or sisters, whatever you said. They let us go with a warning, you didn't tell Bruce that we impounded his car for thirty days and somehow we made up some story because you were like I'm I remember

第二天他找不到车，追问'我的凯雷德呢？'我们就说'哦车有划痕，正好送...'

gonna he get couldn't get the car the next day and he's like where's my Escalade? Oh it had a scratch. It was right to

去修理厂了。你当时对我吼'简直不敢相信！上车！'虽然一路骂我，还罚我禁足，但始终没向布鲁斯告状。我一直觉得你这样特别贴心，真的很够意思。

the shop. To me you were like, I can't believe you Get in the car. Yeah you were like cussing me out. I was on punishment but you kept it from Bruce and I was always like that was really nice of you. That was really cool of you that you did that.

你们对我表现出了极大的尊重。所以

You guys showed me a lot of respect. So

尽管你可能因为那段可怕经历而颤抖，害怕我会做什么或如何反应，但你知道我的脾气。你知道当我真的生气上车时，意味着事情严重了，但你也明白那些话并非我本意。只因你了解我，你的母亲。而我终究会冷静下来

even though you were probably shaking because that was a horrible thing to go through and scared of what I might do or how I would react, you know my temperature. You know that when I get really mad and get in the car, know you're dead, get in the car, I'm gonna you know that I don't mean any of that. You just know that because you know me, your mom. And I'm gonna get in the car

然后我们会一笑置之。你可曾想过有一天会与自己所有的孩子共事？不仅是一起工作，从最初经营服装店到后来管理他们的事业，规划他们的未来。

and we're gonna laugh about it one Did you ever think you would be working with all of your children and not only working with them but because it started out the clothing stores and us working together but then managing their careers and everything and basically guiding their futures.

我认为我们人生的展开方式，是我能想象到最美好的事情之一。就像一场完美的风暴。我预见到它了吗？没有。但这一切的自然发展恰如完美的风暴。

I think the way that our lives unfolded is one of the best things that I've ever, I could have ever dreamt of. And it was like the perfect storm. And did I see it coming? No. I think the way it all unfolded was the perfect storm.

这一切始于我需要支付账单，最终却演变成与我们最爱的人共事，共度生命中最美好的时光。直到今天，我仍会为清晨醒来即将展开的新一天而兴奋，因为感觉每天我们都在为不同公司工作。我们持续拍摄着节目，那些卡戴珊家族的摄像师就在不远处。更难以置信的是，现在连孙辈也能参与拍摄，或只是待在房间里感受这份氛围。

And I think that it started out because I needed to pay the bills and ended up because we're working with our favorite people and having the time of our lives. To this day, I get excited about getting up in the morning and what we're gonna do today because I feel like every day we have a different job or we're working for a different company. We're always filming our show and they're right over there, those Kardashian people, the filmers, but I guess I could never also have imagined it to even include another generation which is so amazing. Like now my grandchildren get to shoot with us or film with us. Or even just if they don't want to film, be in the room.

这就是我们能共同创造的奇迹。

It's the kind of thing where we can all work together.

我也觉得最初我们的相处模式很有挑战性，特别是对Court和我来说，让你担任经纪人。我们当时想'你凭什么指挥我们'，甚至抵触参与。当你和Kim提议拍真人秀时，Court和我坚决反对，根本不想参与。

I also think our dynamic at the beginning, like it was challenging, I know more so for Court and I to, for you to be our manager at first. Because we were like what are you talking, like you're not gonna boss us around. We were like what, we don't even want to do this. At first when you and Kim were like we're gonna film a show and you guys have to be on it. Court and I were like no we're not, don't want to be on this show.

你们当时都说不行，你得参加节目。是啊，我们上节目了。

You guys were like no, you're gonna be on the show. Yeah, we're on the show.

我们在做一档节目。

We're doing a show.

事情就这么发生了，你们说只拍一季没什么大不了的，就接了这个节目。我们就接了。但当你以经纪人身份指挥我们该做什么、该去哪里时，我们很难区分妈妈和经纪人这两个角色。我得说前阵子确实很难适应

And it just happened and you were like it's only gonna be one season, it's not a big deal, just do the show. And we just did it. But then when you were like our manager and telling us what to do and where to go, it was hard for us to differentiate mom and then a manager. It was hard for I would say the first few To get

这种节奏。

the rhythm.

要明白她是在以工作身份要求我，而不是以妈妈的身份。因为我们会有抵触情绪，比如'你这是在干嘛？'我觉得金和你一直相处得很轻松，彼此尊重。我虽然尊重你作为母亲，但总觉得'你不是我老板'——这就是我之前的态度，直到后来我才意识到

To be like okay she's ordering me around or telling me to do this but not as my mom. Because we would be defensive or like what are you doing? It was I think Kim and you always had a very easy rapport and respect and I had respect for you as my mom but I was like you are not my boss. Like that was my, just my attitude towards you until I had to realize, okay she's

她很清楚自己在

She knows what she's

这是经纪人克里斯。我必须把这两个身份区分开，直到我有了孩子后我们的关系才真正融洽。虽然我们关系一直很好，但母亲兼经纪人的双重角色让我很困扰——有时我想和你谈工作，却需要先确认'今天我面对的是妈妈还是经纪人？'而聚餐时你又总想谈工作。

This is manager Chris. Well I had to put you in two different categories until I think our relationship really became very seamless once I had kids. And it was always a great relationship but the management mom role was always very hard for me to just sometimes if I wanted to talk to you about manager stuff, you need Where's my mom? Which one is my mom today? But it would be hard or you would want to talk about work when we're at dinner.

我当时就说不行，那不是我此刻想做的事。

And I'm like no, that's not what I want to do right now.

永远都是'不'，我们确实得想办法解决。没错，这个转变过程确实...还有何时该停下来。这对我来说总是很难。我觉得自己从没学会在状态正佳时如何刹车。这一直是我的...你知道的...非强项之一。

It was always No we definitely had to figure it Yeah. The transition of that was definitely And when to turn it off. That was always hard for me. I don't think I've ever learned how to turn, when I get on a roll. That's always been one of my know not Strengths.

是啊，我很难停下手中的事，因为我对事物总是充满热情。对我来说就像...你知道的，如果我们在吃晚餐，那就是我的甜点。

Yeah. Well it's hard for me to turn things off because I get so excited about stuff. And that to me is like, know if we're at dinner that's my dessert.

为什么你谈论对生活中每件事都充满激情？你是个非常热情的人。但我不希望人们以为，哦，和家人共事很轻松之类的。其实不是的，确实...

Why do talk you have about passion for everything in life? You're a very passionate person. But I just don't want people thinking, oh working with family is a breeze and this. It's not, it does.

哦不不不，肯定是有挑战的。

Oh no no no. There are challenges for sure

是的，我觉得需要时间适应这些角色，了解每个人的立场，学会别太较真，把他们放在工作角色中对待，就像面对正式上司那样。

Yeah, all I the think it takes a minute to be comfortable in those roles and know people's positions and learn to not take things so seriously and put them in that work role as you would if you had a legit boss.

没错，而且当我生气时很难控制。如果有人爽约、取消、做不到、不愿做，或者搞砸了...我内心简直要疯。然后你知道的，我就在心里默唱'忍耐忍耐'，就像快崩溃了。但外在表现上，在专业场合我会尽量保持专业，想着'好吧，现在需要做的是...'因为我说过，我是结果导向型的。但无论是教人系鞋带还是创业指导...我们经历过太多不同阶段，我感觉自己像有九条命。你确实有。跨越不同年代不同篇章。

Yeah, and it's hard when I get angry at somebody. If somebody doesn't show up or cancels or can't do it or doesn't want to do it or you know, really fucks up, inside I'm going crazy. And then you know, I'm singing Stormy song, patience, patience, like I'm losing my mind but on the inside and on the outside I'm trying to be professional if it's a professional setting and go okay, this is what needs to be done because like I said, I'm solution based but whether it's teaching you how to tie your shoes or teaching you how to create a new business, we've had so many different, I feel like I've had nine lives. You have. And all these different decades and different chapters.

但我认为你们每个人生命中最美好的一点，也是你们最大的优势之一——你们有很多优点——就是你们有能力培育并维系来自人生各个阶段的关系。你们从未让这些关系流失。你们有一个庞大的人际网络，随时可以联系、依靠、寻求帮助，他们也会同样求助于你们。说实话，我不太擅长经营关系。我太忙了，有孩子要照顾，没时间闲聊、赴宴做这些事。

But I think the best thing about every one of your lives is one of your biggest strengths, I would say, and you have many, would be your ability to nurture and curate these relationships from every different life that you've had. And you've never let them go. And you have this rolodex of people that you can call, rely on, ask for something and they ask you the same. Like you've really, I'm not great at nurturing relationships. I'm busy, I've got kids, I don't have time to chitchat and go to dinners and do that.

我不知道你究竟怎么抽出时间的，但你做到了。即便没有时间，你也能让人感受到被深爱、被重视。我认为这正是大家应该学习的。无论身处哪个领域，都要用心经营这些关系，永远不要断绝往来，因为人生某个时刻我们可能都需要重新踏上这些桥梁。

And I don't know how on earth you have time, but you do. And even if you don't, you make people feel so loved and seen and that they're so important to you. And I think that's why. I think that's something that people can all take away. It doesn't matter what world you're in, but whatever that world is, make sure that you do nurture those relationships and that you never burn a bridge and that every bridge you can walk back over at some point in life because we're all gonna need to.

每当我提出'我想做这个'或'我们创业吧'，你总能说'我认识这个领域的专家，让我联系他们获取建议'。我能列出50个人，而你认识他们每一个，或认识认识他们的人。你从未斩断过任何关系——如果真有，那说明那座桥本就不值得再走。这完全是你的有意为之。

I know that when I'm like, I wanna do this or let's start this business or do that, you're like, I know someone that is an expert in that field, let me call them and let's get advice from that. Every single person. I could name 50 people and I know you know every single one of them or there's someone that knows that person and you can always reach out to those people. You've never burned a bridge and I think that, and if you have burned a bridge, it wasn't worth going back over anyways. It's very intentional.

是啊。

Yeah.

这让我非常钦佩。我希望等孩子们长大，我每天能多点精力时也能做到这样，因为维系关系是种非凡的才能。这确实需要耗费精力。

And that is something that I really admire and I feel, I hope that when my kids get older and I have a little more energy at the end of the day that I will be able to do the same because it's such an amazing gift to do that because it is. It takes energy Well your

闺蜜在你生命中至关重要，她们扮演着不可替代的角色。年轻时往往意识不到这点，但我想我已经让你明白了——你多次说过，你和朋友常坐在一起说'我想像妈妈和她闺蜜那样'。随着年龄增长，共享人生起伏的闺蜜关系会成为生活中丰盈而珍贵的部分。因为年岁渐长时，你会失去很多人，生活会不时显得悲凉——这些是年轻时不曾体会的。

friends are your girlfriends are super important in your life. They play such a huge important role and I think you don't realize that until you do get older. But I think I've taught you that because you've said to me numerous times how you and your friends sit and say, I want to be like my mom and her friends because she's got these great girlfriends. And I think that's a really rich, rewarding, important part of life as you get older because you do share ups and downs. And as you get older, you lose a lot of people and life gets sad at times that you didn't have those experiences when you were younger.

你们兄弟姐妹能如此亲密真是太好了。这些年来你们可能轮流与不同人更亲近——今年是金，明年是考特妮，后年是罗布，总是变换着美妙温馨的关系。但亲情永远有些微妙差异，就像所有关系都会随时间波动一样。

And the fact that you guys all have each other is amazing. You and your siblings are so close. And you might be closer to one than the other through the years. You might be you know this year you're closer to Kim and next year it'll be Courtney and then it'll be Rob and then you know always different, beautiful, delicious, loving relationship. But it's always a little bit different and relationships change just like from time to time.

人会变。但爱的表达方式不会变。你总能找到那种绝佳的状态去维系每段关系，至少对我来说是这样，因为你们每个人都如此不同——常有人问我‘谁是你最爱的？’好吧，今天我最爱克洛伊，毕竟我们在录播客嘛。当然，我每天都有不同的最爱。你可能连续三十天都是我的最爱。

They change. But nothing changes about the love language. You find that really great way to be and have that relationship, at least for me, with each one of you because you're all so different and we have different like people say to me who's your favorite? Well today my favorite's Chloe because I'm on the podcast and I do have of course I have a different favorite every day. You might be my favorite for thirty days in a row.

这听起来怪怪的，但其实不怪。就像这个月我疯狂迷恋罗布，所有时间都和他泡在一起，我们共同策划项目或...（突然打断）别当什么‘最爱’

That's weird. But it's not weird. It's like I'm so in love with Rob this month. Like I'm spending all my time with Rob and Rob and I are working on this or we're doing Don't be your favorite

因为你这个月和罗布特别合拍啊。

because you're vibing so much with Rob this month.

我只是觉得‘最爱’这个词本身就很幼稚。

Well I'm just saying favorite is a silly word.

好吧。

Okay.

但我这么说并无恶意。我的意思是——此刻我在和谁相处？和谁产生共鸣？和谁交换创意、共同创造、激情碰撞？比如肯德尔会和我连续几天讨论设计创意，因为她正在做一个项目。

But I mean it lightly. I mean who am I hanging out with right now? Who am I connecting with? Who am I exchanging ideas with and creating with and being passionate with? Who wants like Kendall and I will sit and talk about design ideas because she's working on something for days.

而连油漆颜色都选不定的考特妮会让我抓狂，因为她总卡在决策环节，这时我就会和她聊别的。我认为关键在于，当孩子处于青春期时，要学会关注他们的兴趣所在，并帮助他们找到热爱的事物。

Or Courtney who can't even pick a paint color will drive me up a wall because she can't get into the process of it so I'll talk to her about something else. And I think it's really when your kids are teenagers learning how to pay attention to what their interests are and how to help them find their passion.

我有个随机问题想问你。因为你结过两次婚，都是长期的婚姻，然后又开始约会。对你来说那感觉有多奇怪？虽然我们是成年人，但会不会觉得别扭？比如我现在因为孩子还小，似乎没法去约会。

I have a random question. For you, because you were married twice, very long term marriages, and then you start dating. Like how weird was that for you? Because we're adults, yes, but was that weird? Like I can't seem to date because of my young kids.

我不想让他们接触到这些。在你和我父亲分开后遇到布鲁斯时，情况会不同吗？什么更奇怪？我觉得当孩子们成年后会更棘手，因为他们...

I don't want to expose them to that. Is it different when, because you dated after my dad to meet Bruce What is weirder? I would think when they're adults because they're

说实话，当孩子们成年后确实会更奇怪，因为如果你的成年子女和你的伴侣或约会对象合不来，这段关系就永远无法顺利发展。

judge Well it's weird when they're adults because if your adult children don't get along with your significant other or the person you're dating, it's never gonna work.

科里难道没有表示过...我是说，他见到你时肯定知道你带着六个孩子吧？

Was Corey not like I'm gonna, obviously I'm sure when he met you he knew obviously that you have six kids.

我记得在西班牙遇见他那晚，其中三个孩子是和我在一起的。不过是的，我有六个孩子这事应该挺众所周知的

I think three of them were with me the night I met him in Spain. But yeah, I think it was pretty well known that I have

六个孩子。但这并不意味着...

six kids. And that doesn't, mean

这并没有吓退任何人，至少没吓退科里。我想他是爱你们的。听着，当我们中有人有了伴侣，某种程度上我们全家都会接纳那个人。就像'人人为我，我为人人'那样。

doesn't It did throw anyone not throw Corey off. I think he loves Hope you guys. I think when you're, listen. If one of us is with a partner, we're kind of all with that partner. I mean it's like all for one and one for all.

我们都需要做出某种决定。这将关乎我们的家庭状况。我并不是说每个人都该如此。但我们之间联系紧密，能敏锐感知彼此的情绪和能量场。

We all have to kind of decide. It would be in our family. Situation. I'm not saying this is the way everybody should be. But we're pretty connected and we're pretty intuitive of one another's feelings and our energies.

我认为如果有人——比如我们感觉某个成员处于错误的关系中，我们会直言不讳。因为我们只希望彼此幸福，而且整天都待在一起。所以对我们来说，如果和孩子之间存在摩擦，这种模式根本行不通。

And I think if somebody, if we feel like one of us you know, is in the wrong relationship, we're pretty vocal about it. And I think that we know that we just want each other to be happy and we all spend all of our time together. So for us it would never work if there was friction with the kids.

我不记得第一次见科里的情形，只记得初次发现你在和某人聊天时的场景。因为你当时对着手机傻笑发信息，举止反常。我心想搞什么鬼，这表情我可太熟悉了。就追问你在和谁发消息，你说是个刚认识的男生。

I don't remember the first time I met Cory, I just remember the first time I knew you were talking to someone. Because you were smiling and texting and being weird. And I was like what the fuck, I know that face. And I'm like who are you texting? And you're like this guy I met.

看着你那种雀跃傻笑的模样真的很可爱。但具体初次见他的场景我记不清了。不过科里出现在我们生活中已经超过十年？还是正好十年？

It was just to see you that giddy and smiley and happy, it was really cute. But I don't remember the first time I physically met him. But Cory's been around for over ten years or ten years?

快十一年了。

Almost eleven years.

而他至今还没被吓跑

And he hasn't left yet with

科里本身就是个经历过事业起伏的人，曾与知名人士共事，非常清楚这种生活方式带来的种种。我们走进异国餐厅时——比如巴黎的乔治五世——服务员会直接喊「科里先生」，然后带着我们穿过后厨直奔预留座位。他精通安保细节，认识洛杉矶所有司机，似乎也认识我生活中的每个人。能和一个不需要解释我们特殊生活模式的人约会，这种安全感很特别。虽然这么说可能显得奇怪又难以共情——但这就是你的现实。

Cory all of our was somebody also that had been in his career, had worked with a high profile person and he was very well aware of how a life like this goes and all the things that came with it. And we would walk into a restaurant in another country and walk into the Georgesonck in Paris and they would go Corey and whisk us right back into the table that blah blah blah and through the kitchen so we could get out of there. He knew all about security and all about all the drivers and seemed to know everybody in LA and everybody in my life. It was a very safe feeling to be able to date someone who you didn't have to explain how our life worked. Know that's a weird thing to say and a very probably unrelatable But it's your reality.

这就是我的现实，而且我感到非常自在，因为我不必为我们的生活方式或我们如何生活找借口，也不必向任何人解释。反而是他在向我解释这一切。他让我的生活变得更轻松，会说‘天哪，我们就这样做吧’。我们旅行时配合得非常好，我们几乎只做旅行这一件事。我们的日常就是去这里，去那里。

It was my reality and I felt really comfortable with the fact that I didn't have to make excuses for our lifestyle or for the way we lived and explain it He to was explaining it to me. And he was making my life easier and saying oh my god let's do that. And then we travel really well together and all we did was travel. That's all we do is we're going here, going there.

你们确实这样，太棒了。

You guys do, it's amazing.

还有工作，他知道如果我要去另一个国家，如果我们想找点乐子，我还是会在凌晨两点工作，必须设闹钟做这个做那个。而他帮我协调这一切

And working and he knows that if I'm gonna be in another country and you know if we're trying to do something fun I'm still gonna be working at 2AM and I have to set an alarm and do this and do that. And he helps facilitate

他不会试图控制你。他让你做你自己。

He doesn't try to all the control you. He lets you be you.

而且他让我更容易做自己。

And he makes it easier to be me.

但有趣的是他没有孩子，却和一个拥有最多孩子和孙子的人在一起，我们还总待在一块儿。他有没有因为我们这样而烦躁过？从来没有。我总是这样，因为我们是邻居，所以我直接走进去，看到科里坐在沙发上吃东西看电视，我就说‘抱歉我要去看我妈妈了’。我猜他肯定在想‘搞什么鬼’，但他其实不在乎，从没说过什么

But it is interesting that he has no kids and he's with someone that has the most kids and grandkids and we're always together. Does he ever get annoyed that we're No. I'm always, because we're neighbors, so I just walk on in and I'm like hey Cory sitting on the couch eating, watching TV and I'm like sorry I'm gonna go see my mom. Like I'm sure he's like what the fuck can someone, he doesn't care, he never says he

确实。他从来没有，他

does. He's never, he

我确信他内心深处是

would I'm sure deep down he's like

搞什么鬼。不。他为你们感到骄傲。我是说，他在这里待得够久，见证了你们做的很多事情，看到你们有多热情、多努力。而且，你们得到的一切都不是白来的。

what the fuck. No. He's proud of you guys. I mean, he's been around long enough to see, you know, a lot of the things that you guys do and how passionate you are and how hard you work. And, you know, nothing's handed to you.

没有什么是轻易获得的。他看到了这一点并予以尊重，经常谈起这些，只是钦佩每个人都能如此专注、有远见和创造力。我想，任何能从内部观察的人——这样的人非常少——才能真正了解我们的日常。我认为像他这样的人能坐下来感叹‘哇，这太不可思议了’是很了不起的。

Nothing. And he sees and respects that and talks about that and just admires how much everybody has so much just focus and vision and creativity. I think that anybody who's watching from the inside, which is very few people, get to really see how we are day to day. And I think it is amazing for somebody like him to sit back and say, wow, this is incredible.

有个非常严肃的问题。

Have a very serious question.

天啊，什么？谁是我最喜欢的？

Oh god, what? Who's my favorite?

不。好吧。我不会问这种问题。嗯哼。一杯好马提尼的关键是什么？

No. Okay. I wouldn't ask such a thing. Uh-huh. What makes a great martini?

哦，现在说到点子上了。对。这下你懂我了。

Oh now we're talking. Yeah. Now you've got my number.

是的。

Yeah.

一杯完美的马提尼需要摇匀而非搅拌。明白吗？将大量伏特加倒入金属调酒器中，加入约六块冰块。六块。然后摇晃、摇晃、再摇晃，直到酒液冰凉，最后滤入玻璃杯。

A great martini is shaken, not stirred. K. It's putting a generous amount of vodka in a metal martini shaker with about six ice cubes. Six. Shake, shake, shake until it's freezing cold, straining it into the glass.

其实不必每次都过滤。如果赶时间，可以直接倒入杯中，加两颗橄榄就能享用。说白了就是一杯伏特加。传统上通常会加苦艾酒调制。

You don't always need to strain. If I'm in a hurry, you pour it directly into the glass, two olives, and enjoy. It's just a glass of vodka. Basically, what it well it's typically with vermouth.

没错。但你喝的是纯饮

Right. But yours is straight

而我呢，我喝纯饮。但如果你在餐厅点马提尼，他们会问：要蓝纹奶酪还是普通橄榄？恶心。然后你只需要——

up And mine, it's straight up. But if you go to a restaurant and say I want a martini, they're gonna say, Do you want blue cheese or regular? Gross. And you just

我不喜欢蓝纹奶酪。

I don't like blue cheese.

那就选普通橄榄。至少这是我的喝法。

You want regular. At least that's the way I drink them.

你的只是伏特加。直接说，我能来杯伏特加吗？我就会这么说。

Yours is just vodka. Just say, can I have a shot of vodka? That's what I would say.

不，这关乎体验。你得端着马天尼杯，想象弗兰克·辛纳屈的音乐。噢，爱情。你懂我意思吧？

No. It's it's about the experience. You have to, like, hold the martini glass, think Frank Sinatra music. Oh, love. You know what I mean?

我懂。要沉浸在这种‘万物皆体验’的感觉里。

I do. Get into the everything's an experience.

这次体验就像马天尼体验一样。天啊。谢谢。谢谢。

This was an experience just like the Martina experience. Oh my god. Thank you. Thank you.