神的时间而非我们的时间——我们的信仰

我们需要减少一些尴尬。

We need to be a little less awkward.

今天我们想谈谈我们的信仰及其运作方式，因为我们分属不同教派。

Today we wanted to talk about our faith and how that works because we are split denominational.

我是路德宗，而你是罗马天主教。

I am Lutheran and you are Roman.

所以我们想讨论如何实际进行教会活动并使之运作。

And so we wanted to talk about how we actually do church and make that work.

我们如何进行家庭礼拜之类的事情。

How we do home devotions and things.

我们如何处理关于信仰话题的讨论、分歧以及所有这类事情。

How we actually handle discussions about faith topics and disagreements and all of that type of stuff.

首先，我们目前做礼拜的方式基本上是各自去自己的教堂。

So first of all how we're doing church right now is we go to basically each of our churches individually.

它们的时间大多相同，有些时间会重叠。

They're mostly at the same time, kind of overlapping times.

所以我会去路德教会，而你会去罗马天主教会。

So I'll go to the Lutheran church, and you will go to the Roman church.

这在科罗拉多和这里大体上都行得通，因为两边的礼拜时间刚好能协调一致。

And that's worked for both Colorado and here for the most part, because the church times happen to line up well enough to do that.

或者我们通过选择不同的

Or we make them line up well enough by going to a different

教会来协调时间。

church.

有时我们会分开带孩子，我负责带年幼的几个，你负责带年长的。

Sometimes we split the kids up and I'll take some of the younger kids and you'll take the older kids.

孩子们会参加罗马天主教的主日学课程、初领圣体仪式之类的活动。

And the kids are they go to the Roman Catholic religious education classes and first communion and all that.

嗯。

Yeah.

你刚才说的是教育。

You said education.

我有权在你不够完美时觉得好笑。

I'm allowed to find it funny when you're not perfect.

我们过去确实曾一起去过教堂。

We have done churches, like, actually together in the past.

在孩子们还不多的时候，我们会先早上去你的教堂，然后晚些时候再去我的教堂。

Before we had so many kids, we went, like, first to your church in the morning and then to my church in the later morning.

或者周六晚上去我的教堂，周日早上再去你的教堂。

Or to my church on Saturday night and then your church Sunday morning.

是啊。

Yeah.

但那真的很困难，因为周六是唯一能处理家里各种项目的日子，我们正忙着干活，突然发现弥撒已经开始了——因为那些活动总是在白天进行。

But that's really hard because Saturdays are one of the only days you can do a lot of the projects around the house, so we'll be working on projects and then look, and it's you know, mass has already started because it's still middle of the day when those tend to happen.

这也取决于不同教堂的安排。

That just depends on the church too sometimes.

当你的教堂有凌晨5点的弥撒时，我们很难赶上，因为那时通常还在忙别的事情。

When your church has a 05:00 mass, that's really hard to get to because we're still usually in the middle of something.

那就像是早上7点的弥撒。

It's like a 07:00 mass.

大多数都是这样。

Most of them.

通常

It's usually

目前大概是四点或五点。

It's like four or 05:00 so far.

七点的弥撒不多。

There's not a lot of seven o'clocks.

是啊。

Yeah.

但在特殊日子，比如平安夜或复活节之类，他们通常会增加一些夜间和傍晚的弥撒，这样有时会更容易参加。

But usually on, like, the special days like Christmas Eve or Easter or something, they usually have more kind of night and evening masses that are a little bit easier to get to sometimes.

我们确实会参加这些节日的弥撒。

And we do for those holidays.

我们确实尝试去两边的教堂。

We do try to go to both churches.

通常我们会在前一天晚上去你的教堂，第二天早上再去我的教堂，或者反过来。

We usually do getting yours the evening before, and then mine the morning of, or vice versa.

像母亲节和父亲节时，至少我尝试过在父亲节和你一起去教堂，我知道你也曾尝试在母亲节和我一起去。

And like Mother's Day and Father's Day, at least I tried to go to church with you on Father's Day, and I know you've tried some Mother's Days to come with me.

不过，我们一直在讨论尝试更频繁地去对方的教堂，但这基本上意味着我们中有一方需要更固定地去某个教堂，以便更好地协调时间安排。

But, yeah, we have been talking about trying to go to each other's churches, more often again, but that would mean basically either one of us switching which church we go to more consistently just to get the timing of that to work out better.

而且这样开车会多很多，因为你的教堂有两个选择，一个是特别早的时段，另一个是你现在去的10点半的时段。

And it's a lot more driving because your church, there's two options, and one is super early in the morning or the current option you go to at 10:30.

而我的教堂要么特别早，要么我们完全换到另一个教堂区域，距离你的教堂有一个小时车程。

Whereas mine, there's one super early or we completely switch or, like, whole church areas across the state an hour away away from your church.

所以他们整天都在开车，对孩子们来说，要安排好这些真的很难。

So they're driving all day, and the kids, it's just hard on them to figure out how that would work.

是啊。

Yeah.

还有就是吃饭的问题，他们已经开始闹脾气了，因为还没吃到那一万五千份零食和十一份C字母开头的食物。

And then there's, you know, the whole eating aspect where they already start getting cranky because they haven't eaten their 15,000 snacks and 11 c's.

所以这还是个需要解决的问题。

So that's still a work in progress.

如果我们尝试什么方法，我们会看看最终效果如何。

And we'll see how it ends up working if we do try something.

但最困难的事情之一就是当你带着一群小孩去教堂时，有些孩子在你试图照顾其他孩子时捣乱，不过至少我还是觉得有责任尽量让所有孩子都跟着我，而且我为不能一直照顾好他们所有人感到非常内疚。

But one of the hardest things is when you go to church with lots of little kids and some of your kids act out while you're trying to work with the other ones, but at least I still feel obligated to try and have all of the kids with me all the time, and I feel horribly guilty that I can't handle all of them all the time.

最小的男孩在教堂跟你相处得怎么样？

How is youngest boy with you at church?

你是怎么应付他的？

How do you handle him?

他通常会被抱起来很多次，扭来扭去，大喊大叫。

He's usually picked up a lot, squirming, yelling.

有个不介意孩子哭闹的教堂真好。

It is nice when you have a church that doesn't mind the children crying.

通常我听到的都是关于孩子们的评论。

It's usually the comments that I get about the kids.

你知道，要么是说他们很乖，要么是说在教堂里听到孩子的声音真好。

You know, it's either, like, they're well behaved or it's nice to hear kids in church.

她的孩子们钻到椅子底下了。

Her kids suck under chairs.

她没有被卡住。

She's not stuck.

她只是不高兴。

She's just upset.

所以我们下一个话题是互动规则。

So our next topic is the rules of engagement.

意思是我们该如何与孩子和彼此之间谈论信仰，以及在整个背景下我们的规则是什么。

Meaning, how do we handle talking about faith with our kids and with each other, and what are our rules within the whole context.

所以首要的是我们都相信耶稣为我们而死以拯救我们，我们必须始终回归这一点。

So the number one thing is that we both believe that Jesus died for us to save us, and we have to always fall back on that.

尽管有时我恨不得掐死你然后把你埋在后院，但我必须记住你是按上帝的形象和样式造的，耶稣为你而死，这是我们婚姻的根基，虽然有时真的很难。

As much as I want to strangle you sometimes and bury you in the backyard, I have to remember that you are made in the image and likeness of God, and that Jesus died for you, and that is the foundation of our marriage, which is really hard sometimes.

我们必须明白彼此都相信自己的教派是正确的，至少是我们所发现的最接近真理的。

And we have to know that each other believes our own denominations have it correct or at least the most correct that we have found.

所以这不仅仅是理性的较量，不是你击中一个论点就能让对方彻底反思人生、改变教派、瞬间转变立场。

And so it's not just going to be like a rational, just if you get this one kind of hit in it's going to send the other one to rethink their entire life and swap denominations and turn on a dime.

因此你必须保持尊重和情感上的觉察。

So you have to be respectful and emotionally aware.

但同时也要保持开放的心态，明白我们都是真理的追寻者，显然我们各自教派中都有我们认为真实的部分，并希望对方也能了解甚至认同。

But also keep kind of an open mind of we are both truth seekers, and so obviously there is something in our own denominations that we find true, and we want the other one to know that and I suppose come to believe that too.

所以这不是简单地回避话题永不触碰。

So it's not just a leave it alone and never touch the topic.

就我而言，我结婚时就希望你不要改信天主教，因为我不希望你为了我而改变信仰——我认识的很多人中，一方会为了婚姻便利而改宗，但并非真心相信。

I know for me, I came into our marriage hoping that you wouldn't convert to Catholicism because I don't want you to convert for me, which a lot of people I know, one spouse will convert just for the other for the ease of everything, but not actually believe it.

所以我至少非常努力不强迫你成为天主教徒，而是希望当我们讨论时，你能从我的视角理解我为何会相信这些。

So at least I try really hard not to not to make you become Catholic more just so you can when we do talk, you see it from my perspective and why I would believe that.

而我结婚时想的是，你怎么可能不成为路德宗信徒呢，因为这显然才是正确的。

And I came into the marriage thinking that, you know, why would you not be Lutheran because that's, like, so obviously right.

带你去参加几次圣经学习，你就会恍然大悟。

Get you to come to a couple bible studies and you'd be like, oh, duh.

你才没有这么想。

You did not.

可你已经参加过几次圣经学习了。

Well, you'd already gone to a couple bible studies.

虽然还没发生，不过

Hadn't happened yet, but

真要说什么的话，我反而走向了相反方向。

If anything, I went the opposite direction.

我看着你心想，哇哦。

I looked at you and I'm like, oh, wow.

你的信仰如此坚定。

You're so full of faith.

你真是太开心了。

You're so so happy.

我可不能输给你。

I can't be outdone.

我学得越多就越觉得，没错。

And the more I've learned, the more I'm like, yeah.

我是天主教徒。

I'm Catholic.

即使读了《奥格斯堡信纲》，我还是觉得，没错。

Even reading the Augsburg Confessions, I'm like, yeah.

我是天主教徒。

I'm Catholic.

但有一件事我们必须做，就是我要了解路德宗的信仰，这样才能理解他的信仰，从而尊重他的信仰，而不是像个疯子一样因为他的信仰而对他大发雷霆。

But that is one thing that we have to do is I have to learn about the Lutheran faith so I can understand what it is he believes, so I can be respectful for his beliefs and not just be psycho and flip out on him over something that he believes that I think is wrong.

如果我理解他为什么相信他所相信的，那我就能说，好吧。

If I understand why he believes what he believes, then I can be like, okay.

所以他这样看待这件事，但我们并没有做同样的事。

So he sees this and this way, but we aren't doing the same thing.

值得做的是消除你之前持有的误解和观念，比如我们刚认识时——我不记得是还在约会还是已经结婚后——你仍然认为马丁·路德从未真正被逐出教会，而是在引发宗教改革后又重新加入了天主教会，而所有追随他的路德宗信徒如果真正跟随他，就会回归天主教会。

And it's it's worthwhile just getting over the misconceptions and things that you had believed beforehand, like when we got I don't remember if we were still dating or after we got married, you still thought that Martin Luther was never actually ex communicated and rejoined the Catholic church after kind of sparking the Reformation and all of the Lutherans who came after him and did drugs for if they would have actually followed him, they would have meant back to the Catholic church.

《协和书》中的大部分路德宗教义都是以这样的框架呈现：我们支持自己的教义，反对当时罗马天主教的主张。

And most of the Lutheran doctrines in the book of Concord and all that is framed as we are supporting our doctrines against what the Roman Catholics had at the time.

因此对我来说，理解罗马天主教的立场既容易又困难。

And so it was like both easy and hard for me to understand what the Roman Catholic position was.

可以说，我们站在对立面来看待这个问题。

Like, we know that as the, I guess, adversarial kind of side of that.

但同时，要真正理解这种思维模式也很困难：你会相信这些吗？其中哪些部分是好的？是否容易陷入‘这就是错的，他们错了几百年，所以宗教改革才如此...’的简单立场？

But it's also, at the same time, hard to get into the mindset of like, would you believe that and what is kind of the good pieces of these that it just that Is it kind of the easy stance of oh that's just wrong and they've had it wrong for hundreds of years and that's why the Reformation was so

激进。

Radical.

为什么它能迅速传播？是因为它基于真实且美好的事物，但可能被腐化或滥用？还是说它确实有合理的基础，只是没有被很好地阐释？或者说这是有益的教义，只是人们在实践中执行得不好？

Why it took off so quickly or is it like this is based on a true thing that is good but it was perhaps corrupted or abused or you know it has actually valid you know underpinnings to it but it was not explained in a good way or you know it's it's a useful doctrine but people put it in practice poorly.

我认为最困难的部分之一是我们身处二十一世纪或任何其他世纪，却无法确切知道当时发生了什么。

And I think one of the hardest parts is that we are in the twenty first or whatever century, and we don't know what was happening at the time.

虽然有一些历史文献和不同人物的著作，但你无法百分百确定那些事情确实发生过，或者那确实是当时人们的信仰，还是仅仅是一种被当时人普遍接受的观念。

There's some historical documents and some writings from different people, but you can't say for sure and certain that those actually were happening or that's actually what was being believed or it was just a perceived perceived belief at the time.

是胜利者

It's The winner

才能书写历史？

gets to write the history?

对。

Yeah.

胜利者书写历史，但要轻易接受这点并不容易。

The winner gets to write the history and it's not easy to be like, okay.

那么我们崇拜玛丽亚吗？

So do we worship Mary?

答案是否定的。

And the answer is no.

但从外部视角来看，如果你不理解语言和其他背景，确实很容易看起来像是我们在崇拜圣母玛利亚和圣徒，仿佛我们只向他们求助，相信他们能为我们改变一切，而不是像我会请你或请路边某人为我代祷那样，只是请求他们帮助我们祈祷。

But from an outside perspective, if you don't understand the language and other things, it very well can look like we worship Mary and we worship saints and we go only to them and believe they are able to change everything for us rather than we ask them to help pray for us the way I would ask you or I would ask somebody down the road to help pray for me.

他们只是我们家庭中的另一员。

They're just another member of our family.

他们恰好在天堂罢了。

They just happen to be in heaven.

因此当我们向他们祈祷时，只是请他们为我们代祷。

And so when we say prayers to them, it's just asking them to pray for us.

在外界看来，这就像是在崇拜他们。

Outside, that looks like we worship them.

回顾整个宗教改革的起源，我们并不清楚当时发生的一切及其背景。

And so looking back at the whole start of it, the reformation, we don't know everything that was going on and going into it.

而且我认为你没有仔细读过其中一些祷文。

And I think you haven't read some of those prayers very closely.

但交战规则之一就是——你不能像对待圣本尼迪克特祷文那样随意。

But that's some of the rules of engagement is you can't just be like that prayer to Saint Benedict.

这篇祷文压根没提耶稣，所以很难说你是请圣本尼迪克代为求情，实际上这就是一篇献给圣本尼迪克的祷文。

It doesn't mention Jesus at all, so it's really hard to say you're asking Saint Benedict to intercede for you when it's really just a prayer to Saint Benedict.

我喜欢你随便选个圣人的做法，因为我从没向圣本尼迪克祷告过。

I like that you just choose a random saint because I have never done a prayer to Saint Benedict.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这意味着选这个圣人比其他那些安全多了。

It means it's much safer than picking one of the other ones.

但是

But

就规则而言，你不能随便抓篇文章甩到配偶面前说'为这个辩护'。

as far as rules go, you can't just grab an article or a paper and slam it in front of your spouse and say defend this.

为什么不行？

Why not?

因为第一，你配偶可能正处在荷尔蒙波动的孕期。

Because number one, your spouse could be hormonal and pregnant.

那从来不会发生。

That never happens.

那从来不会发生。

That never happens.

第二点，你需要用'嘿，我想聊聊'这样的开场白来引导对方进入状态。

Number two, there's a hey, I'd like to talk intro that you have to do to get them into the mindset.

第三点，你不能直接把东西拍在妻子或丈夫面前，就指望他们立刻转换思维去为某个话题辩护。

And number three, you don't just slam anything down for your wife or husband and expect them to just switch their brain to a topic to defend whatever the topic is.

有时候你会想，我把文件拍在桌上说'嘿，为这个辩护'。

And there's sometimes when you think I slam a paper down and say, hey, defend this.

当它滑过电视托盘的时候。

When it goes sliding across the TV tray.

可能没那么直接，但很可能也不怎么专业。

And it's probably not quite that direct, but probably also not very technical.

尤其是对怀孕的妻子或情绪波动的人

Especially with a pregnant wife or person or hormonal

个人。

individual.

妻子是怀孕的一方。

Wives are the ones who get pregnant.

丈夫则不会。

The husbands do not.

我不知道。

I don't know.

你看过《小爸爸》吗？

Have you seen junior?

是那部正确的剧。

Was the right show.

即使已婚。

Even married.

严格来说，他当时并未结婚。

Technically technically, he wasn't married.

但在交往规则上，你也需要考虑对方的思维方式，因为就像我们提到玛丽时，你对我想法或话题的反应往往更情绪化而非理性，至少我是这么认为的。

But also for the rules of engagement you do need to think about like how the other person thinks too because a lot of like if we bring up Mary a lot of your reactions to the thoughts that I would have or topics that I would bring up are more emotional than like rational at least I would say.

你是说我情绪化吗？

Are you saying I'm emotional?

所以讨论某些话题就像如履薄冰，必须先解开情感层面的纠结，才能触及问题的实质核心。

And so it's like stepping on eggshells sometimes trying to talk about some of those topics because you have to kinda unwrap some of the emotions around it before you can get to the, like, the meat and potatoes of the issue.

有时和你讨论特定话题时，你的理解和词汇量源于数月来与高智商领域成年人的交流，而我整天在教孩子们识字和基础语法。

And sometimes trying to talk with you about certain things, Your understanding and vocabulary has been talking to adults in a very intelligent field for months and mine has been teaching children how to read and basic grammar skills.

你总是带着高深的措辞和词汇进入对话，我甚至记不住半数单词的含义。

So you come at conversations and topics with this high level of verbiage and vocabulary, and I can't even remember what half of the words mean.

因此很难跟上你的思维高度，因为你始终处于高位，而我整天要向小孩子解释事物。

And so it's really hard to get into the mindset of where you're at because you are you get to stay so high up, and I have to, you know, explain things to small children all day long.

宗教话题同样存在这种情况。

But that's also true for the the religious topics as well.

比如，我这辈子参加过的圣经研读会比你多得多。

Like, I've gone to more bible studies in my life than you have.

所以，我在那个领域也处于不同的层次。

And so, like, I am also just on a different kind of level there too.

而且，在孩子睡觉后只有三十分钟的情况下，想要进行深入辩论是很困难的。

And it's it's difficult trying to have, you know, deep debates when you have thirty minutes after the kids go to bed.

是啊。

Yeah.

或者在半小时的车程里，

Or half an hour in the car ride or

你想保持尊重，但

And you want to be respectful about it and then

有时候

There are times

你不知道答案。

you don't know the answer.

你知道，有时候你会希望孩子们在场，看看你们实际上是如何讨论这些话题的。

You know, there's times when you, like, kind of want the kids to be there to see how you actually discuss these things.

但有些话题，你其实也不希望孩子们在场听到。

But some of the topics you also, like, don't actually want the kids around to listen to sometimes too.

因为当我们试图讨论时，听起来几乎像是在吵架。

Because it almost sounds like we are fighting when we're trying to talk about it.

而且我知道我会提高嗓门

And I know I raise my

确实会演变成争吵。

does turn into fighting too.

那都是因为你。

That's because of you.

你是个没有感情的机器人，而我是个极度敏感的非机器人。

You're an emotionless robot, and I'm a hypersensitive non robot person.

一触即发的敏感火山？

Hypersensitive explosion waiting to be triggered?

就像火山一样。

From a volcano.

随时可能爆发？

Erupt at a moment's notice?

有时候。

Sometimes.

特别是随时可能爆发？

Especially moment's notice?

当你怀孕时，从圣经学习回来，把一张纸重重拍在电视托盘上。

When you're pregnant and you slam a paper down on the TV tray coming home from a bible study.

比如，十年前。

Like, ten years ago.

是啊。

Yeah.

你想说什么？

What's your point?

这仍然是解释我们做事方式的最佳例子。

It's still the best way to explain the way we do things.

你就像在说，嘿。

You are like, hey.

这篇文章挺有意思的。

This article was interesting.

我觉得它很有道理。

It makes a lot of sense to me.

它的逻辑布局能引起我的共鸣。

It's logically laid out in a way that talks to me.

如果我把它放在你面前，你就会明白。

If I put it in front of you, you will see it.

你会通读它，看清自己行为的对错。

You will read through it and see the light and error of your ways.

所以我会把它放在你面前说，这里有篇我喜欢的文章，但你嘴里说出的却是辩护词。

So I will put it in front of you and say, here is an article that I like, but the words that came out of your mouth are defendant.

而你的反应就像，他刚给了我一记耳光。

And you're like, he just punched me in the face.

我当时的反应是：我怀着大肚子，情绪非常糟糕。

I'm like, I am hugely pregnant, really upset.

你一整天都在外面工作。

You've been gone working all day.

我在家闷了一整天。

I've been stuck home all day.

你能去参加圣经学习，而我什么都做不了。

You get to go do bible studies, and I don't do anything.

然后你回来就塞给我一张纸，指望我写出一篇大学水平的论文。

And then you come and just give me a piece of paper and expect me to do a college grade essay on it.

你妈妈以前总是帮你写大学论文吗？

When your mom always did your college essays?

她不是全包办的。

She didn't do them all.

她只是帮忙。

She helped.

我非常...我就是不会粉饰事情。

I'm very I I can't fluff things.

我能写出一份10页的论文，四个段落，回答所有问题并涵盖所有要点，只用四个段落。

I can make a 10 page paper, four paragraphs, and answer all the hit the questions and hit all the bullet points in four paragraphs.

而且不是那种很长的段落，是真正的段落，每个段落三到五句话。

And not, like, long paragraphs, like actual paragraphs, three to five sentences.

你如何处理我们讨论中的分歧？

How do you handle disagreements in our discussions?

你是说那种我们同意保留不同意见的情况吗？

Do you mean like we agree to disagree type thing?

有时候确实如此。

Sometimes we do.

就像很多讨论都是为了解释我们对某个教义的理解方式，或者为什么我们要做某些...我想我们其实没有太多讨论过为什么在礼拜中要做某些特定的事情。

Like a lot of a lot of the talks are geared for you know explaining why we think this way about a piece of doctrine or why we do a certain I guess we haven't had a whole lot of discussions about like why we do certain things during the service or something like that.

这种情况偶尔会出现，但大多数时候...

It comes up every once in a while but the most part,

这些仪式都非常相似。

the services are really similar.

只有极少数环节有所不同，这挺有趣的。

There's very few things that are different which is amusing.

通常分歧只是我们试图理解或让对方理解我们的立场，或是理解他们的出发点。

Like the disagreements usually are just we're trying to like understand or get the other person to understand where we're coming from or understand where they're coming from.

所以这些分歧有时会演变成不顾及对方感受的争执，或是过于固执己见之类的。

And so the disagreements while sometimes they turn into just fights of not being considerate towards the other one or being too obstinate or something like that.

或者太过情绪化。

Or too emotional.

通常并不是因为我们真的在观点分歧上争吵。

Usually not like we actually are fighting because we disagree.

更多是因为我们提出话题的方式，或是开始解释时的态度。

It's more of how we came about how we broached the subject or how we started explaining it.

我们是否显得高高在上？

Were we condescending?

我们在每次争论中是否用了不该用的词？

Were did we use the words that you shouldn't in every argument?

这是我们在婚姻咨询中学到的：当进行可能情绪化的讨论时，有些词是绝对不能用的。

That was something we learned in marriage counseling is that you have to when you're having a discussion that could get emotionally charged, there are certain words that you don't use.

有些处理方式能让争论保持公平。

There are certain ways of approaching things to fight fairly.

在任何争论或辩论中，都必须以公平竞争的心态进行，不能指责或诋毁对方人格。我们宗教讨论演变成争吵的时候，都是因为我们打破了这些规则。

And any any argument, any debate, you have to go at it with the same mindset of fighting fairly and not being accusatory or defaming character of a person and the times that our religious discussions turned into fights were when we broke those rules.

哦，还有我觉得因为我们思维方式不同——我可能更偏向分析型追求精确，所以经常当你说话时，我会用不同方式重新表述以便更好理解，但你会觉得我在打断你、忽视你的观点。或者我不断解释自己观点，因为觉得你没理解，结果让你感觉我在压制你的发言。而且我不像你那么感性，有时确实也不完全明白你想表达什么。

Oh, and also I think because of how just our minds work where like I'm I am more I guess analytical in trying to be precise and so a lot of the times when you will say something I will try to re verbalize it in a different way that like I could understand a little bit better but a lot of times you feel like I'm shutting you down and kind of disregarding what you're saying or I keep trying to explain my point because I think you're not getting it and so it just to you feels like I'm just shutting you down and disregarding anything you have to say and I'm not as emotional as you, so sometimes I don't get what you're trying to say too.

有时我会用14种不同方式解释同一件事，因为你好像直接关闭了接收通道根本不听。

And sometimes I will try to explain the same thing 14 different ways because you just shut seem to shut down and don't actually listen.

但我们最近不得不重新讨论的一个话题是进化论与七日创世论——因为孩子们的科学教育需要选择课程，这引发了关于我们真实信仰的辩论。

But one of the topics that we've recently had to revisit is evolution versus creation in seven days because our kids with science, we had to look at curriculum and try and figure out what we were gonna use, it brought up a the debate of what do we actually believe.

我知道你觉得我在这件事上摇摆不定，因为...我确实没亲身经历过

And I know that you feel I'm wishy washy on that because I I wasn't there.

我不确定创世故事中的七天是否如我们今天所理解的那样，还是按照上帝的时间框架来计算的七天，就像祂所说的那样。

I don't know if the creation story was seven days as we see it today or if it was seven days in God's time frame, the way he puts it.

那时的日子是否比现在的二十四小时更长，或者并非如此。

If days were longer back then than twenty four hour period or if they weren't.

而你更需要一个精确的说法，即那是七个我们现在理解的二十四小时制的日子。

And you need more of a precision on it was seven twenty four hour days as we see it now.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，不一定要精确到二十四小时，但他们所说的‘日’应该就是我们理解的一天。

I mean, it doesn't have to be exactly twenty four hours, but what we would consider a day is what they're talking about there.

但这就是我的观点——我不知道，而且无论相信你的看法还是认为那时的时间计量与现在不同，都不会改变我的信仰。

But that's my view on it as I don't know and it's not going to change any aspect of my faith believing what you do or believing that it was a different, you know, hours than how we scale it now.

你觉得我摇摆不定，因为我没有一个明确的立场。

You've believe that I'm wishy washy because I don't have a definitive.

而这正是我们意见相左的话题之一。

And that's just one of those topics that we do disagree on.

但至少对我来说，这不会让我对你另眼相看，也不会让我在提起这个话题时就想揍你。

But at least for me, it's not gonna make me look at you differently or make me wanna smack you just when we bring it up.

在孩子的教育材料上我听从你的意见，因为你对此确实很坚持

I defer to you for educational material for our kids because you do feel strongly about

这一点。

it.

一天就是一天。

Just day means day.

如果你在创造太阳之前先创造了树木，它们活不了多久。

And if you create the trees before you create the sun, they're not gonna live very long.

所以你必须在之后很快创造出太阳。

So you have to create the sun really quickly afterwards.

好吧。

Okay.

如果他先创造了树木，然后等了一千年才创造太阳，那周围就不会再有树木了。

Well, if he creates the trees and then waits a thousand years before he creates the sun, he's not gonna have any more trees left around.

但情况有所不同。

But things were different.

不过话说回来，我不认为上帝的时间等同于我们的时间，创世时我尚未出生，而且有些故事的叙述方式确实显得牵强。

But, again, I don't God's time is not our time, and I was not alive at the creation, and some of the stories are awfully farfetched in the way that they are.

我们这次就不深入讨论这个了。

We're not getting into that on the on this.

那将是另一期播客的内容，届时我们可能会逐章研读圣经，围绕某个主题展开讨论或辩论。

That'll be another podcast where we actually, you know, go through the book of the bible, books of the bible, and just have, a topic or a debate or something on that.

但是，重申一下，我也不确定。

But, like, again, I don't know.

我承认自己不了解，但这不是我愿意誓死捍卫或与你争执的观点。

I admit I don't know, but it's not something that I it's not a hill I'm willing to die on and fight you for.

还有更多更重要的事情值得关注。

There's a lot of much more important things to hold weight.

我正试着回忆我们最近有过分歧的辩论实例，或者像这次这样我立场摇摆的情况。

I was trying to think of an example of a debate that we've had recently that we could actually talk about and that we disagreed on, or in this case, I'm wishy washy.

我们之间很少有这种会产生分歧的讨论。

We don't have a lot of, like, discussions that we would disagree on in this type of way.

最近我们确实很少有这样的争论。

Like, we haven't had a whole lot of those recently.

我们最近确实很少讨论宗教话题。

We haven't had a whole lot of religious discussions recently.

确实。

No.

没错。

That's true.

我们最近确实很少深入讨论。

We haven't had a whole lot of discussions recently.

六个孩子让你忙得脚不沾地。

Six kids keep you on their toes.

有时候吧。

Sometimes.

或者让你累得只想躺在床上。

Or keeps you in bed because you're tired.

你今天有什么值得感恩的事吗？

And what are you thankful for that happened today?

我很感恩孩子们在做了大量工作后把房子打扫干净了。

I am thankful for the kids getting the house clean after lots and lots and lots of work.

我很感恩朋友们来家里玩得很开心。

I'm thankful that friends came over and had a good time.

你需要什么帮助？

What do you need help with?

可能需要想想明天该做什么。

Probably figuring out what to work on tomorrow.

你需要什么帮助？

What do you need help with?

早起。

Waking up early.

今天早上我帮了你，你却对我发火。

I helped you this morning, and you got mad at me.

我不记得有这回事。

I don't remember this.

我不记得你帮过我。

I do not remember you helping me.

你想为谁祈祷？

Who do you wanna pray for?

我想为你的周一飞行训练祈祷。

I would like to pray for your flight training thing on Monday.

你想为谁祈祷

Who do you wanna pray

我想为我的祖父母祈祷。

I would like to pray for my grandparents.

就这样吧。

That's a wrap.

罗马

Roman.

天主教

Catholic.

有些母亲节要和我一起过

Some Mother's Days to come with me.

也要去教堂吗？

And go to church too?

是的

Yes.

我祈祷

I pray.

这就是为什么我们不能拥有美好的事物

And this is why we can't have nice things.

或者让你因为疲惫而待在床上

Or keeps you in bed because you're tired.

我差点又要因为你的变态行为扇你了。

I was about to smack you for that pervertedness again.

那次我的思想可没在肮脏的地方。

My head wasn't in the gutter that time.

显然，你的思想才在那里。

Apparently, yours was.

你的思想总是在肮脏的地方。

Your head's always in the gutter.