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本期节目部分由Kinja道场赞助播出，这是一个面向新手的在线舞蹈教程网站。
This episode is brought to you in part by Kinja's Dojo for beginners, an online dance tutorial site for noobs.
如果你一直想学跳舞，现在机会来了
If you've ever wanted to start learning how to dance, now you can
在家舒适的环境中就能学习。
do so from the comfort of your home.
没有评判，没有压力，完全按照你自己的节奏。
No judgment, no fear, and on your own time.
世界顶尖舞者将教你基础舞步，让你成为
With some of the world's best movers giving you the basic steps so you can be
你想成为的舞者。
the dancer you want to be.
初始课程库包含30多节课，每月新增4个教程，助你快速达成舞蹈目标。
With the starting library of over 30 plus classes and four new tutorials uploaded every month, you'll reach your dance goals in no time.
就是这么简单轻松。
It's simple and easy.
只需在kinjasdojo.io上注册即可。
Just sign up at kinjasdojo.io.
再次提醒，访问kinjasdojo.io即可开启你的舞蹈之旅。
Once again, that's kinjasdojo.io to start your dance journey today.
欢迎收听Kinjas播客。
Welcome to the Kinjas Podcast.
在这里，我们将畅谈舞蹈、生活以及任何我们他妈想聊的话题。
Here, we will discuss dance, life, and whatever the fuck we want.
朋友们，欢迎回到《Kenja's Move In In The Shadows》。
Folks, welcome back to Kenja's Move In In The Shadows.
今天我们播客请来了了不起的、独一无二的王嘉尔。
Today, we have the incredible, the one and only Jackson Wang in the pod.
我个人一直很期待这期节目。
I've been personally waiting for this episode.
这期节目太棒了。
This episode was incredible.
除了我们大家都认可和喜爱的成就之外，这次对话走向了一个我未曾预料的方向，但我们会让你们自己来体验。
Outside of his accomplishments, which we all recognize and we all love, This conversation took a path that I wasn't quite expecting, but we will let you guys get into it.
让我们开始吧。
Let's get into it.
各位，欢迎回来或初次来到《Kinja's Movement in the Shadows》。
Folks, welcome back or welcome to Kinja's Movement in the Shadows.
我们是你们的主持人，本，我是安东尼。
We are your host, Ben, and I am Anthony.
今天，各位，我们请来了歌手、词曲作者、说唱歌手、舞者兼时装设计师。
Today, folks, we have singer, songwriter, rapper, dancer, fashion designer.
他是Team Wang唱片公司的创始人兼首席执行官。
He's a founder and CEO of Team Wang Records.
我很好奇我们请到了谁。
I wonder who we have.
还有Team Wang Design，你可能通过K-pop组合GOT7认识他。
And Team Wang Design, you may know him from the k pop group GOT7.
他是创始人之一，也是中国嘻哈组合熊猫帮的四分之一成员。
He is a founder and one fourth of Chinese hip hop group, Panda Pack.
2021年，他入选了福布斯中国名人榜前十名。
In 2021, he was listed in the top 10 on Forbes China celebrity 100 list.
各位先生女士，让我们欢迎王嘉尔！
Everybody, ladies and gentlemen, we have Jackson Wang, y'all.
砰，砰，砰。
Bam, bam, bam.
砰，砰，砰。
Bam, bam, bam.
新肯加
New Kenja
在洞穴里。
in the cave.
你可以从
You can start with
最上面的信息
that info on top.
那个
That
洞穴里的新Kinja
that New Kinja in the cave.
这是一个公开播客
This is a public podcast.
我们还没到那一步
We're not there yet.
你知道吗？
You know?
我是说，我们可以做到
I mean, we can be there.
我是说，你可以决定我们去哪里，伙计
I mean, you you get to drive where we're at, man.
首先，杰克逊，非常感谢你
Well well, first of all, Jackson, thank you so much for
终于来了，我一直想来参加，但安东尼拒绝了我两年多。
coming through, I I've always wanted to come, and Anthony rejected me for, like, more than two years.
我邀请你上播客已经很久了，知道吗？
You I've been asking you to come on the podcast for a long know what?
这就是为什么
That's why
我们不会剪掉这部分。
We're not gonna edit this out.
是啊。
Yeah.
人们会继续知道的
People are gonna keep know
他做什么的？
what he does?
不公平。
Unfair.
你
Do you
知道吗
know what
？
I do?
我有时发信息给你，你甚至都不回复。
Text you sometimes you don't even respond.
不。
No.
他就是这样的。
This is what he do.
嘿，女士。
Hey, lady.
你你想接下来
You you wanna Next
然后你就知道你的经理了。
thing you know your manager.
联系上了不。
Hit hits up No.
经理然后
Manager and
突然就变成了中间人对话。
suddenly it's like a a the middleman conversation.
我们俩的经理都是女性，所以我不觉得这是中间女性。
Both of our managers are female, so I don't it's middle female.
我不知道。
I don't know.
通常，我们喜欢在节目开始时讲一点起源故事，因为你是第一次来我们节目做客。
Usually, we like to start our pod with a little bit of an origin story because you're a first time guest on the pod.
但说实话，咱们得现实点。
But the thing is, let's be real.
大家都知道杰克逊的No。
Everybody knows Jackson's No.
No。
No.
他们No？
They No?
不？
Don't?
No。
No.
让我来说
Let me let me say
嗯，是的。
Well, yeah.
分享你的东西。
Share your stuff.
给我们任何版本
Give us whatever version
的游戏。
of the game.
对。
Yeah.
嗨。
Hi.
我是新来的Kinja。
I'm the new Kinja.
靠。
Shit.
王嘉尔。
Jackson Wang.
我是一名歌手兼表演艺人。
And I'm a singer and performer entertainer.
我刚发布了最新单曲《Blow》，就是这样。
And, I just released my latest single is called Blow and that's it.
我们的Kinja就像我的家人一样。
And our Kinja is like my family.
我们的渊源要追溯到六年前初次相遇的时候。
We go all the way back to, six years ago when I first met you.
起源就在那里。
Origin there.
顺便说一句，现在才真正开始播客录制。
Did it hear was now the actual that the podcast podcast has just begun, by the way.
我们一直在。
We've been.
好吧。
Alright.
六年前，2016年。
Six years ago, 2016.
没错。
Right.
请继续给我们讲讲那段经历。
Go ahead and walk us through that.
是这样吗？
Is was it?
是六
Was it six
年前吗？
years ago?
嗯，按时间推算确实如此。
Well, that's that's the math.
当时有个节目叫《热血舞蹈团》。
Like, there there was a show called Hot Blood Dance Crew.
嗯。
Mhmm.
对吧？
Right?
而我作为其中一员参加了
And I participated as one of the
明星评委，没错。
celebrity judge, absolutely.
是的。
Yeah.
然后我也不清楚。
And then I don't know.
你们管它叫什么来着？
What do you call it?
明星评委。
A celebrity judge.
我刚说过了。
I just said it.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
然后就在那里我认识了安东尼、约翰和迈克。
And then and then that's that's where I met Anthony, John, Mike.
巴姆，巴姆当时在场吗？
Bam, was Bam there?
后来我们陆续邀请了文、帕特和迈克。
We brought eventually, I had brought out Ving, Pat, Mike.
我们还请卡伦协助了一阵子。
We had Karen assist us for a little bit.
没错。
Right.
约翰她也在那里待过一阵子。
John She was there for a little bit as well.
就和神奥舞台的伙伴们一起，因为你知道，没有他们的指导之类的话，我根本没法参与那件事。
Just there with the Sinnoh Stage fam and all that stuff because, you know, I couldn't participate on that thing without, like, their guidance and whatnot.
其实，这真的是个非常非常棒的故事。
Actually, this is a really, really great story.
很多了解你和Kindred's之间关系与历史的粉丝，知道我们是从热血舞团开始的。
A lot of people a lot of fans who understand the relationship and the history between you and Kindred's and, like, where we started and stuff like that know that it started with Hot Blood Dance Crew.
但他们可能不知道的一个小细节是，当时节目的制作人原本想让我去指导另一队明星艺人。
But one of the tidbits that they may not have known is that the producers of the show at the current time had originally wanted me to come on to work with the other team of celebrity artists.
所以我这个诡计多端、有点小恶魔性格的人，就在那个电视节目的阴暗角落里找到了可乘之机。
So I, my overly conniving and semi devilish nature found pockets of time in the dark corners of that TV show.
我记得当时悄悄对制作人说，特别记得是怎么说服他们的。
And I remember whispering to the producer, and I remember convincing them specifically.
我当时就说，嘿。
And I was like, hey.
你知道，就像，你们请Kenjas来编舞。
You know, like, you guys brought Kenjas on to, like, choreographs.
你们想要我来这里。
You you wanted me here.
我觉得你们是想让我们来展示我们的优势。
I feel like you want us here to, like, exhibit our strengths.
对吧。
Right.
没错。
Right.
对。
Right.
如果你仔细想想动作组合和真实性的搭配，我觉得我们可能应该加入另一队。
And if you really think about the pairings of movement and authenticity, I feel like we should probably be with the other team.
然后我们就在描绘这个画面了。
And then we we're painting the picture.
我们正在审阅所有参选者的开场表演片段，观察编舞师和动作风格。
We're looking at all the audition pieces that everybody's doing with the opening number, we're, you know, looking at the choreographer and the movement styles.
而我一直在暗示。
And I kept on hinting.
我当时就说，我觉得那个选择不对。
I was like, I don't think that's the right one.
我记得最后是节目总导演和那位主制作人拍板的。
And I remember finally, it was the boss of the entire director of the show and that main producer.
他们终于表态说，好吧。
And they're finally like, yeah.
也许他们是对的。
Maybe they're right.
也许肯德拉应该和杰克逊搭档。
Maybe Kendra should work with Jackson.
说真的，要不是我们之前太过处心积虑——你懂的
And literally, if we hadn't just been overly conniving You know what the
好笑的是？
funny thing is?
对此很阴暗。
Dark about it.
是啊。
Yeah.
你知道好笑的是什么吗？
You know what the funny thing is?
什么？
What?
我本来不会的，不，不想。
I would've didn't No, want no.
我甚至都不是为了那个。
I it's not even about that.
就像，没错。
Like, right.
我是说，如果不是那个时刻，我本不会继续跳舞的。
I'm saying like, I wouldn't continued to dance if it wasn't that moment.
并不是说，你们知道，你们和我的互动，像是和Kinjas团队那样。
Like, wasn't like, you know, you guys connecting with me, like, with with the Kinjas.
是那样，还有来自八十八号的肖恩，他说服了我跳舞。
It's that and also Sean from eighty eight, he convinced me to dance.
就像你的视频里需要表演，你需要表演，你需要拼命跳舞，你需要把整个表演呈现出来。
Like you need performance in your videos, like you need to perform, you need to dance your ass off, like you need to like put on the show.
我就是这样入门的。
That's how I got into it.
我从没想过我学会了跳舞，但我觉得我不该深入其中，你懂我意思吗？
I've never thought about like I learned how to dance but I feel like I'm not I shouldn't go go deep in it you know I was thinking about you get me.
通过这个过程，我感觉自己进步了很多，通过和Kinjas的互动。
Through that I felt like I improved a lot, through through through, the Kinjas.
我学到了很多，也吸收了很多。
I learned a lot and absorbed a lot.
这激励着我在这个方向上继续发挥更多创意。
And that inspired me to continue to to be more creative in that direction.
完全不是在讨要赞美，纯粹是因为我们自2016年以来第一次进行这样的对话和复盘，谈论节目之类的事情。
Not at all fishing for compliments genuinely just because we're having this kind of conversation and debrief for the first time literally since, like, 2016 talking about the show and stuff.
就像你说的，你学到了很多，重新获得了跳舞的灵感。
Like, what you say, like, you learned a lot, you were reinspired to dance.
那么，你从那段经历中具体收获了什么？
Like, what was it from that or from that experience that you got from it?
或者说，是什么让你坚持下来的？
Or, like, what was it that you took away that kept you going?
那就是一切的开始，就像整个旅程的第一章，从过去到现在再到未来，包括你看待编舞的方式、听音乐时的状态、如何在歌曲中表达自己，还有视频中的角度运用、如何创新思考、对特定声音的反应，以及音乐中不同层次的乐器编排等等这些我学到的细微之处。
It's it's that was a that's like the start, like, chapter one of the the whole journey, you know, till now until until the future where it's like the way the way you see stuff like even in the choreo how do you listen to the music and what should your headspace be when you when you're listening to a song how are you going to express it and also like in videos like the angles how do we like make something think differently you know and how do we react to a certain noise and and you know how there are like different layers in music in a song different layers that the instruments and, you know, all these, like, minor details that I learned a lot.
不过我会称之为第二章，因为我觉得第一章已经存在了，当我们初次见面时，你就在向我们透露你参加过真人秀、K-pop选秀节目之类的经历。
I would call it chapter two though because I feel like there was a chapter one because even when we showed up and we were meeting for the first time, you were still dropping bombs on us about how you were on the reality, like, k pop, like, talent TV shows and stuff like that Right.
当时你在真人秀的挑战环节里，需要通过YouTube学习编舞来接受考验。
Where you were you were being tested in in challenges on a reality show where you had to learn choreography via YouTube.
所以你学过BAM的套路、Ving的套路之类的
And so you had learned things like BAM's routines or Ving's routines and stuff like that
哦，对
Oh, yeah.
是啊
Yeah.
YouTube
YouTube.
那是什么？
What was that?
当我还是练习生的时候
When I was a trainee.
哦，练习生啊
Oh, a trainee.
我就是说这个 对
That's what I Yeah.
我会...我会...我会通过在线视频学习所有东西，比如BAM的编舞，还有像约翰的编舞之类的，然后我们就自己学着跳。
I would I would I would learn I learned I think I learned everything was through videos online, like the BAM choreo and you know when there was one with like John's choreo like and then the And we would just you know, learn learn it ourselves.
哇。
Wow.
对，对着镜子练。
Yeah, mirror it.
你刚才说当练习生的时候，解释一下什么是练习生？练习什么？
So you said when you're a trainee, trainee for like explain what that means, trainee for what?
哦，练习生就是在正式以歌手身份出道前，在公司接受训练的阶段。
Oh, trainee is before you make your debut as a singer and you train in the company.
这是亚洲的体系，尤其是K-pop公司，你会在公司内部训练，每周都要通过不同的测试，而且毫不留情。
It's a, it's an Asian system like in K pop especially companies you will you would train inside and then you'll go through like different tests every week and this is the thing, like it's no mercy.
说实话我不想再来一次，但我得承认这是全世界最完善的训练体系，你知道...
It's probably like, I wouldn't want to do that again, but I would admit it's the best system in the world, you know, like for
让你经历这一切。
you to go through everything.
你当时情况如何
How were you when you
刚进入那个阶段时？
first got into that?
我当时17岁。
I was 17.
17岁。
17.
天啊。
Damn.
好吧。
Okay.
16、17岁左右。
16, 17.
所以你在这一行已经干了大约十年多了？
So you've been in the game for roughly a decade plus?
我是说，作为歌手的话，八年。
As a I mean, as a singer, eight years.
八、九年吧。
Eight, nine years.
八、九年。
Eight, nine years.
是啊。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
但练习生时期，我大概做了两年半。
But trainee, I did like two and a half.
老兄，我...你知道的，我像对每个嘉宾一样对你做了些背景调查。
Dude, so I I've I've, you know, I've done some stalking on you as I do for every guest here.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我是说，你有着非常非常——不是指你的简历，而是我了解到的关于你本人的事情，你简直像个击剑
You have a very, very I mean, not I'm not even talking about your resume, but, like, the things that I learned about you as a person, you were like a fencing
奇才。
phenom.
FAA级别的击剑手。
FAA fencer.
奥运级别的水准，宝贝。
Olympic level, baby.
奥运级别的水准。
Olympic level.
国家级的水准，宝贝。
National level, baby.
然后你涉足音乐，接着又进入舞蹈领域，后来还成为设计师，这一整段旅程精彩得让人可能只敢梦想触及其中某一个方面。
And then and then you got into music, and then you got into dance, and then, you know, you became a design like, there's a whole, like, journey that one can only dream of maybe tackling one aspect of that.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
你是怎么...我为什么要这么做？
How did you Why did I do it?
是啊。
Yeah.
我曾是一名击剑手，但从小我就一直渴望在人们面前表演。
I was a fencer, and then I've always want like, as a kid, I grew up always liking to perform for people.
即便在击剑时，我也觉得自己某种程度上是在表演，我很享受那种感觉。
Even during fencing, I I felt like I was performing it in some way, you know, and and I like and I like that.
我一直...我热爱乐队，跳舞曾是我的业余爱好。
And I'll always I I I like band I like dancing as it was my hobby back.
我连淋浴时都会跳舞，纯粹出于爱好，我还玩过车库乐队。
I dance in my shower, you know, like, as a hobby, I dance and I and I did garage band.
车库乐队才是真正的OG（元老级存在）。
Garage band is the OG truth.
没错。
Right.
你知道吗？
You know?
而且我玩得非常开心。
And And I had a lot of fun with that.
我就想，为什么我不能做这个呢？
I'm like, why why can't I just do this?
你懂吗？
You know?
最有趣的是，那天我在学校考试日，在香港，JYP的选角团队来我们学校选人，然后他们看到了我。
And and what the what's the funny what what the funny thing is, I was in school one day, exam day, and, in Hong Kong and all, I I mean, the the the JYP casting team came to our school for to cast and then they saw me there.
那天是考试日，考完试大家都走了。
It was exam day after exam everybody left.
我本该离开去参加击剑训练，但不知为何留下来打篮球。
I was supposed to leave for training for fencing practice, but I stayed for some reason playing basketball and they saw me.
他们说：过来一下。
They're like, come here.
你叫什么名字？
What's your name?
你...你想当歌手吗？
Do you do you like do you wanna be a singer?
你会跳舞吗？
Do you dance?
然后我就...你知道我
And I'm like, and you know I
会那个。
do that.
这些唱片公司和经纪公司就像去高中之类的地方，因为你跟我描述的这种感觉，就像在美国，美军在招聘会上试图招募高中生，他们放个单杠，问你能做几个引体向上？
They just like record labels and agencies just go to like high schools and stuff and, like because you the what you're explaining to me feels like feels like in America, the US army at, like, a a a convention where they're just trying to recruit high school students, they put a pull up bar up and it's, how many pull up bars pull ups can you do?
然后就说'报名参军吧'。
And then it's, like, sign up for the army.
但你在打篮球。
But you're playing basketball.
你并不是在表演。
You're not performing.
你也不是在跳舞。
You're not dancing.
你是在唱歌。
You're singing.
他们就像在看这家伙打篮球一样。
They're like, this guy playing basketball.
让我们看看他是否
Let's see if he
那里有招募活动。
there's place be a recruiting.
不。
No.
老实说，我是学校里为数不多留下来的人。
Honestly speaking, I was the only few that was left in this in the school.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
我是说，他们不知道那天是考试日。
I mean, they they didn't know it was exam day.
他们来了，然后说，哦，你叫什么名字，过来聊聊，你想当歌手吗？我当时想我没什么可失去的，就说当然想啊，现在就能开始吗？明天行不行？然后他们问你会跳舞吗，我说呃不太会，但我喜欢跳。
They came, and they're like, oh like what's your name come here let's have a conversation do you want to be a singer so they mind to me I had nothing to lose I'm like yeah of course I want to be a singer right now and right now can we do it tomorrow like and then they're like do you dance and I'm like oh, don't, but I enjoy dancing.
他们说，现在就给我跳一段。
Was like, dance for me right now.
我当时想，反正我没什么可失去的。
And I just I had nothing to lose.
我就这样，没有音乐伴奏，就直接开始跳了。
I was just like, with no music, I just went like this.
我打赌他们当时心想，好吧，这家伙真不害臊。
And I bet they were like, okay, this guy has no shame.
这家伙真是毫无羞耻心。
And this guy has no shame.
他说，嘿，这周六三点来参加试镜。
He's like, yo, come to the audition this weekend at three.
那接下来是什么步骤？
So then the next step was what?
还有试镜环节？
There's an audition?
试镜，我也不知道为什么。
Audition and I don't know why.
莫名其妙地，我居然通过了。
Like, I somehow luckily, you know, I passed.
我当时都不知道自己通过没有。
And I didn't oh, I didn't know if I passed or not.
他们就说，回家等通知吧。
They said, you know, go home and wait.
你知道如果你通过了我们会通知你的。
You know we'll let you know if you pass.
我喜欢他们。
I like them.
你懂我，我就觉得好吧很酷，然后每天我都在刷新邮箱，每天醒来什么都没有，日复一日。
You get me, I'm like okay cool and every single day I'm hitting that refresh button in my email every single day when I wake up nothing, every day.
我是说，你在乎这件事。
I mean, you cared about it.
对吧。
Right.
我在乎。
I cared.
我在乎了整整三个月。
I cared for three months.
但是怎么但是怎么
But how but how
这对父母来说适用吗？比如说？
does that work for, like, parents, for example?
这在社会上是被广泛接受的吗？
Is it, like, so accepted, like, socially where
但是，你知道，嗯，我明白
But, you know, like, yeah, I under
但你懂我意思吗？
But you know what mean?
比如说，好吧，三个月过去了，然后，哦，你成功了。
It's, let's say, okay, so three months passes, like, oh, you got it.
然后你父母会说，哦，别担心大学的事了。
And then your parents are like, oh, yeah, don't worry about college.
不。
No.
我是说，我直到那天晚上试镜后才告诉他们，我说，嘿，知道吗？
I mean, I didn't tell them until after the audition that night, I told them, hey, you know what?
我今天去试镜了，然后我父母就说，别相信娱乐圈，你知道的，那是黑暗面，他们会把你关进小黑屋，卷走你所有的钱，诸如此类的废话。但确实如此。
I auditioned today blah blah blah blah blah and then my, you know, parents, they're like, oh, don't trust entertainment, you know, it's the dark side, you know, they put you in a cave, like, you know, steal all your money, you know, like, the blah blah blah blah blah blah blah It's it's right.
那里很可疑，这样那样的。
It's sketchy, it's this, it's that.
我当时就在等。
And I was waiting.
说实话，那两周的等待简直像噩梦一样。
Honestly, that two weeks of waiting was like nightmare.
到了第三周后，我真的放弃了。
And then honestly, after the third week, I gave up.
我就想，要不这样吧，
I'm like, you know what?
也许我就继续练击剑，备战奥运会，去上大学，然后找份工作。
Maybe I, you know, just carry on and fence, you know, prep for the Olympics, go to go to college and, you know, get a job.
嗯。
Yeah.
你知道吗？
You know?
或者当一名运动员。
And or be be an athlete.
找份工作或者当运动员。
Get a job or be an athlete.
这就是我们大多数人的选择。
That's most of our options.
不过，是的，继续说吧。
But, yeah, continue.
我们更...是啊。
We are more Yeah.
这里的人们，
People here,
不。
No.
我超爱这个。
I love it.
不。
No.
事情是这样的，三个月后——对，整整三个月——那天我突然想起来，虽然已经放弃了但还是习惯性查邮件，结果突然看到JYP发来的邮件。我打开一看，简直不敢相信他们是在对我说这些？
It was and then after three months I think yeah three months all of a sudden that day so I'm like regularly checking my email although I gave up right and then one day boom JYP And then I opened it, I'm like, no way are they telling me?
我还不知道结果。
I don't know yet.
邮件标题写着JYP。
It says JYP.
万一他们说别等了，你落选了怎么办？
What if they said, don't wait, like you failed.
你懂吗，万一我点开邮件，他们却说'你通过选拔了，我们希望你立刻来韩国'怎么办？
You know, what if they say that and I clicked, I opened it and they're like, you passed the test and we want you to be we want you to come to Korea now.
好吧。
Okay.
然后呢？
And then what?
这简直太疯狂了。
That's fucking crazy.
就像是，接下来的那一步可能是最令人兴奋的。
Like like There's a the that that next step is probably the most exciting one.
没错。
Right.
尼克然后
Nick And then
剩下的就是历史了。
the rest is history.
而现在他就住在我的公寓里。
And then now he's in my, you know, my apartment.
他就在这儿做播客，懂吗？
He just podcast, you know?
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
他的人生。
His life.
然后呢，你知道，我父母当然没把这当回事。
And then and then, you know, my parents, of course, they they didn't take it seriously.
接着他们就开始说教，说什么你现在的位置是多少人梦寐以求的。
And then they're, like, telling me all these stuff, like, you're in a place that a lot of people would dream of.
为什么要归零重来冒这个险？
Why would you wanna start zero again and take that risk?
连同你在香港建立的击剑事业等等。
With like your fencing and everything that you had built in Hong But
最后，你知道的，他们还是支持我了。
at last, you know, they're supportive.
但他们让我先完成最后一场比赛，比如亚洲杯这样的亚洲锦标赛。
But they they told me to finish my last compete like, tournament, Asian Cup, like an Asian championship.
比完赛再离开。
Finish that and leave.
然后我爸的态度让我分不清他是不是在开玩笑。
And then my dad was like, I don't know if he's really joking or not.
他说如果你能赢得比赛，就可以走。
He's like, if you if you win if you if you win the comp, the tournament, you can go.
所以某种程度上他其实是在拒绝。
So in some way he's just saying no.
是啊。
Yeah.
你懂我的意思吧？
You get what mean?
是啊。
So Yeah.
那你赢了吗？
So did you win?
嗯。
Yeah.
赢了。
Did.
但完全没考虑JYP那件事。
But without thinking about the JYP thing at all.
那种漫不经心的态度
The nonchalance of
太性感了。
that is so sexy.
你就是耶稣。
You're just Jesus.
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那个那个
That that
告诉过你了。
told you.
不。
No.
我是说，我想象你追随你父亲的脚步从事击剑运动。
I mean, I I'm imagining you followed your father's footsteps in fencing.
他就是那个有点...哦，对。
He was the one who was kind of Oh, yeah.
是啊。
Yeah.
鼓励你。
Encouraging you.
他...他以前也是击剑运动员。
He he was a fencer too.
是的。
Yeah.
我妈妈曾是体操世界冠军。
And my mom was a World Champ gymnast.
哇。
Wow.
好的。
Okay.
所以你来自一个运动员世家。
So you come from a family of Athletes.
运动员。
Athletes.
好的。
Okay.
表演者，运动员。
Performers, athletes.
好的。
Okay.
于是你迈出这一步，赢得了击剑比赛，
And so you take this leap, you win the fencing competition,
然后然后然后我就说不。
and then And then and then I went no.
接着他们就表现得像我爸爸特别特别骄傲，到处跟他朋友炫耀，你知道，我儿子如何如何，可高兴了。
And then they're like my dad's so so proud and telling all his, like, friends and, you know, my son, blah blah blah, so happy.
然后突然间我说，但是爸爸，嘿，你不是答应过我可以去韩国开始我的训练吗？
And then all of a sudden, said, but dad, hey, didn't you promise me I can go to Korea and and start my training thing?
你答应过的。
You you promised that.
然后我记得那天晚上他第一次哭了。
And then I think that night he cried for the first time.
这大概是我第一次见他哭。
Like, this is probably the first time I've seen him cry.
天啊。
Oh my gosh.
骄傲、开心、悲伤，就像
Proud, happy, sad, like
就像，就像，就像他在与自己斗争，你知道，就像他...对。
Like like like He's He's fighting against himself, you know, like He's like Right.
他就像在说，哦，糟糕。
He's like, oh, shit.
我该...就像，是的，我是那么说过，但同时他正在备战奥运会。
Should I, like, yes, that's what I said, but at the same time, he's prepping for Olympic.
作为一个父亲，我, 我需要，你知道，遵守诺言，兑现承诺。
Like, as a father, I need to, you know, keep my words and keep my promise.
感觉是啊。
It feels yeah.
感觉天平的重量非常沉重。
It feels like the gravity of the scales are really intense.
就像，有一个非常明确的方向和目标。
It's like, there's this, like, very clear potential direction and goal.
是培养一个奥运级别的击剑选手儿子，还是去另一个国家在这个行业的黑洞里摸索出路。
Olympic level fencer for a son, or just go to another country and figure it out in this, like, kind of black hole of an industry.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
是啊。
Yeah.
所以我总是很好奇，尤其是当我发现非韩国人闯入K-pop行业时，他们是怎么...
So I I'm always curious, especially when I find people who are not Korean who break into the k pop industry, like, how does
都是JYP的功劳，JYP包办了一切。
work JYP JYP did all the work.
对吧？
Yeah?
没错。
Yeah.
我是说，我算是外籍成员之一，嗯。
I mean, I would I'm, like, one of the foreign member Mhmm.
在一个团队里。
In a team.
所以他们把你安排进去，就像他们组建团队时问的，你们想不想
So So they they put you in like, they formulated the group, like, You you you you guys wanna be
组团？
in a group?
那个训练体系。
The the training system.
长话短说，大致分为三类。
So long story short, it's, like, it breaks into, like, three categories.
每家公司的制度不同，但在JYP里普通练习生叫Yeon Seop
I mean every company is different but in JRP it was like the normal trainee called Yeon Seop
生。
Seng.
然后
And
然后还有另一个级别，可以理解为升级版，第二级别，而第三级别就像是项目团队，每周都会有测试。嗯。
then there's like another level called like it means like another upgrade upgrade okay level two and then the level three is like project team and every week yeah every week you get tested Mhmm.
比如，你们会有一个任务。
Like, you you have, like, a mission.
对吧？
Right?
你的声乐、舞蹈，如果是演员，就是他们的演技。
Your vocals, your dance, for actors, or then their acting skills.
这是你开始学韩语的时候吗？
Is this is this when you started learning Korean?
是的。
Yeah.
甚至我，我甚至还有韩语测试。
Even I had I had even, like, I even had Korean test.
哦，是啊。
Oh, yeah.
天哪。
God.
你小时候一直是个好学生吗？
Were you always, like, a good student in growing up as a kid?
勤奋好学吗？
Studious?
不是？
No?
不是。
No.
我不知道。
I don't know.
你怎么能突然从...就像我...
Do you how can you all of a sudden go from just being, like, I
我可以回答这个问题。
can answer that.
这是房间里最勤奋的人。
This is the hardest worker in the room.
这与具体科目或工作内容完全无关。
It has nothing to do with what the subject or or or the work actually is.
如果你拥有房间里最勤奋的人或职业道德，那么无论遇到什么挑战或障碍，这个人都会克服它。
If you have the hardest worker in the room or the work ethic, it doesn't matter what the challenge or the obstacle is, that person will get through it.
在我合作过的所有人中，我从未见过比杰克逊更努力的人。
I've never been in a room with any other human being out of everybody I've ever worked with that works harder than Jackson.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢你的赞美。
Thank you for this compliment.
这话我只说一次。
I'm only gonna say that one time.
从现在开始，其他所有话都会是某种拐弯抹角的打击或贬低。
Everything else from this moment on is gonna be some sort of backhanded slap or diss.
不过只是被录下来了而已。
But it's only recorded.
我真的很喜欢这个评价。
I really like that comment.
但重要的是我分享过这一次。
But it was important that I shared that one time.
既然我已经分享了，我们现在要强行欢迎所有人进入广告时段。
And now that I've shared it, we are forcefully gonna welcome everybody to our current ad break.
不要。
No.
等等。
Wait.
什么品牌要来了
What what's the brand coming
现在吗？
right now?
休息。
Break.
你不能跟我说话。
You can't talk to me.
什么？你能不能先
What's Can you just take a
休息一秒钟？
break for one second?
现在是正式休息时间。
This is official break.
抱歉打扰一下。
Sorry to interrupt.
我们有点事。
We just have a thing.
我们有个播客叫《科米特与梅奥的观点》
We have a podcast called Kermit and Mayo's Take.
哦，那个啊
Oh, that thing.
是的
Yes.
但不止一个
But not just one.
如果您在苹果播客或extratakes.com上订阅，每周可以无广告收听不止一档，而是两档节目。
If you become a subscriber on Apple Podcasts or at extratakes.com, you can listen to not one but two shows ad free every week.
主节目每周五更新，可免费收听。
The main show drops on Friday and is available for free.
无论您通过哪个平台收听播客，都能收听到最热门的影视评论节目。
Tune in to hear the biggest film and TV reviews wherever you get your podcast.
只需搜索'Kermit Amayo's Take'即可。
Just search for Kermit Amayo's Take.
额外内容会在周一早上发布。
And the extra stuff drops on a Monday morning.
前往extratakes.com或订阅苹果播客即可收听。
Head to extratakes.com or subscribe on Apple Podcasts to listen.
我们回来了。
And we back.
嘿。
Hey.
不管那是什么，都是个很棒的产品。
Whatever that was, it was a great product.
随便吧。
Whatever.
哟。
Yo.
我希望那是
I'm hoping that was
真高兴我们都听到了那个广告。
So glad we all heard that commercial.
基贾手镯。
Kija Bangles.
太棒了。
Amazing.
比如，什么？
Like, what?
我我希望它是动觉式的。
I'm I'm hoping it was kinesthetic.
动觉。
Kinesthetic.
最直接的可能是你的应用程序的东西。
The most direct thing that could potentially your app.
是啊。
Yeah.
可能会更好
Potentially better
还有那些创意，老兄。
And the creatives, man.
简直了，哇塞。
Like, dang.
干得漂亮。
Wonderful job.
导演得非常到位。
Very well directed.
嗯。
Well.
是啊。
Yeah.
这简直太搞笑了。
This is freaking funny.
所以你在说什么
So what are you talking
关于什么？
about?
我们来聊聊那个广告吧。
Let's talk about that commercial.
我们来谈谈那个广告。
Let's talk about that ad.
总之，回到这里的对话。
Anyway, back to the conversation here.
回到杰克逊和金贾斯的历史话题。
Back to back to the history of Jackson and the Kinjas.
现在正在听的各位，想必都是金贾斯的粉丝吧。
And everybody everybody who's probably listening right now obviously is is hopefully a fan of Kinjas.
我不知道。
I don't know.
大多数在场的人可能都好奇或想知道这段关系是如何发展的，我们做过什么，你最喜欢的时刻有哪些，以及你最生我气的时候是什么时候。
Most of the people that are are here are maybe curious or wondering like how that relationship developed, what we've done, what some of your favorite moments are, when was the time you're most pissed off at me.
如果我们能深入探讨那个时期的关系，可能有很多不同的事情是人们感兴趣的。
There's a bunch of different things that maybe people are interested in if we could dive into that era of the relationship.
在Jackson成为Kinjas之前，我们有机会一起合作的项目中，你最喜欢的是哪一个？
Pre Jackson becoming Kinjas, what's one of the favorite things that we have gotten a chance to work with together?
我们做过很多事情
We've done things
很多。
lot.
非常多。
A lot.
所以事情是这样的。
So this is the This is the thing.
对我来说，工作就是，你知道在做任何事之前，就像和任何人合作前一样，友谊总是第一位的。我们必须先成为朋友，建立起那种联系和纽带，然后才能在一个舒适的环境中共同创作。
Like, to me, like, work, you know doing something before we do something like anybody before I do something with anybody it's always like friendship, friendship always comes first you know we got to be friends you know we got to have that connection that bond and then we're in this comfortable environment to create together.
老实说，我真的不喜欢那种两个人或一群人被硬凑在一起的感觉。
I really honestly, I really don't like that two person or a lot of people just put together like they it's forced.
感觉很勉强，你懂吗？
It feels forced, you know?
嗯。
Mhmm.
就是，我需要先有那种联系才能创作。
Like, I'm not I'm not I need that connection before I can create.
我可以证实这一点。
And I can attest to that.
我能跟你说实话吗？
Can I be honest with you?
可以。
Yeah.
在我们建立那种羁绊之前的最初阶段。
In the very, very, very beginning before we had built that bond Right.
我们当时确实不太好合作。
It was we weren't the easiest person to work with.
好的。
Okay.
我们来看下一个广告吧。
Let's go to the next ad.
我们来看下一个广告吧。
Let's go to the next ad.
我们来聊聊那个吧。
Let's talk about that.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
我向天发誓，这会是个圆满结局。
I swear to god, there's a happy ending.
我不会随便说些废话。
I wouldn't say that just talk shit.
也许我会。
Maybe I would.
不知道。
Don't know.
也许我不是最容易沟通的人，但重点是，杰克逊是我合作过的首批艺术家之一，他对最终产品的每个制作环节都极其注重细节。
Maybe I wasn't the easiest word with point is, Jackson was one of the first artists that I'd ever worked with that was so detail oriented to every facet of the entire production of the final product.
嗯。
Mhmm.
通常来说，名人艺术家们，无论是音乐录影带、舞蹈电视节目表演、还是现场电视演出，无论是什么，特别是在他们与编舞师这个谦逊角色的关系上——嗯。
Oftentimes, celebrity artists, whether it be a music video, a dance TV show performance, a a live performance TV spot, whatever the whatever it is, is oftentimes, especially in their relationship with the humble role of choreographer Mhmm.
它通常只直接与动作设计这类事情相关，仅此而已。
It's directly only associated with things like the moves, period.
舞蹈动作。
The dance moves.
嗯。
Mhmm.
因为首先，我觉得我们自然而然地就在性格、抱负以及想要达成的目标上非常合拍——就像要碾压所有人，彻底击溃他们，制造一场大屠杀，让他们的身体在地板上拖出血痕。
Because, one, I think we we organically and authentically just kinda hit it off both on personality and ambition and just, like, regular just, like, vibes of what we wanted to both accomplish, like, just destroy everybody, murder them, absolute massacre, like, the literally scraping the floor with their bodies of blood.
真的非常非常激烈的那种。
Like, literally, very, very intense shit.
这就是为什么我真的很喜欢Jackson。
That's why I really like Jackson.
但问题是，这种追求并不止于排练室。
But the thing is, it didn't stop it didn't stop the rehearsal room.
他就像个后座司机，在每个环节都如影随形地监督着。
He would he would it was like a it was like having a backseat driver and over over the shoulder shadow in every compartment.
所以一开始有点让人紧张，就像'天啊，见鬼'那种感觉。
So first, it was a little bit intimidating, a little like, oh my, oh, shit.
这家伙和我合作过的其他人相比，是真正全身心投入的。
This guy's really about it compared to everybody else I've I've ever worked with.
灯光、视频与特效制作、服装造型部门，当然还有舞蹈、编舞和排练室。
Lighting, video and effects production, costume wardrobe department, obviously, the dance and the choreography and rehearsal room.
每一个需要细致创意总监参与的细节，Jackson不仅在场主导讨论。
Every nuance that a a very, detailed creative director should be a part of, Jackson was not just in the room leading the conversation.
当你适应之后，当你理解了他的方向、抱负和能力，然后你也会相信他的创作流程和那股拼劲。
And once you get used to it, once you understand, one, his direction, ambition, and ability, and then two, you're a believer in his creative flow and and hustle.
拼劲是个很有力量的词，我喜欢这点。
Hustle is a very strong word, and I love that.
在整个行业中，Jackson是每个领域里最他妈棒的合作伙伴。
Jackson is a fucking best guy to work with in the entire game in every department.
我不在乎是音乐行业的MV拍摄。
I don't care if it's a music video with the in the music industry.
不在乎是电视剧还是电影演出，他的职业道德、et对每个细节的专注和痴迷程度。
I don't care if it's a TV show or a movie and an acting role, work ethic, and the type of attention detail and obsessive nature of every facet.
他在我所有合作过的人中，独树一帜
He he is by himself in that category amongst everybody I've ever gotten a chance to
谢谢
Thank you.
这大概是最高的赞誉了
That's really probably the best compliment.
我正想说，哇靠
I was about to say, well, damn.
那个...你对此感觉如何？
That like, how do you feel about that?
我感觉...
I feel like
我之前就说过了
I've said it before.
你知道的，我说过
You know, I've said
之前说过。
it before.
没错。
Right.
我感到非常幸运和快乐，但这不会改变我对他没邀请我参加那个派对的感受。
I feel so blessed and happy, but that's not gonna change how I felt about him not inviting me to that party.
我先从好话说起，因为我想谈谈那些我
I just started with the good stuff because I wanna talk about the things I
讨厌的事情即将改变
hate about gonna change
一点都不会
one bit.
我只是想缓和一下打击
I just wanted to soften the blow
所以如果我们可以聊聊那些让我恼火的事情
so if we could talk about the things that piss me off.
不。
No.
开玩笑的。
I'm kidding.
我们现在在哪儿，伙计们？
Where are we right now, guys?
哦，嘿。
Oh, hey.
我能快速聊聊那个吗？
Can I talk about that, like, real quick?
想聊什么就聊什么，老兄。
Talk about whatever you want, man.
说实话，就像我的音乐视频之类的，我觉得它就像披萨，由许多不同的元素组合而成，就像一件完整的作品。
Honestly, like, for my music video and stuff, I feel like it's like a pizza where there's so many different element putting together, and that's like a body of work.
你知道，就像那是最终成品。
You know, like that's like the final product.
这样才能打造最佳成品，每个元素都必须在同一个频道中，必须保持同步。
That makes the best final product where every element has to be in the same channel, has to be on the same page.
所以我如此投入，是因为我真心希望脑海中那个精确的画面能够被完美执行并呈现出来。
So like I got so involved it was because I really want that exact picture that was in my head to be executed to come to life.
而且你还有所有这些不同的部门，比如导演、摄像组、美术团队，还有太多不同的部门，造型师、化妆师等等。
And you have all these like different divisions where a director, right and camera crew, art team, like too many different divisions, stylists, makeup artists, right.
太多不同的部门了，他们必须理解我脑海中的构想，要知道，每个人的性格不同、对标准不同、愿景也不同，沟通起来真的很困难。
Too many different divisions, they have to understand what's in my head, you know, and everyone's and it's really hard to communicate because everyone's like different personality, different standard of happiness and different vision, know, it's really hard.
这就是为什么我必须如此如此具体，才能基本上满足每个人的需求。
That's why I have to be so so so specific in order to them to, like, basically feed everybody.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你懂我的意思吗？
You get me?
但但这就是为什么我认为你在这方面有超能力，因为我曾有机会与许多不同的艺术家合作。
But but that's why I think you have a superpower in that because there's a lot of different, like, artists I've gotten a chance to work with.
有些人会让各个部门自主管理，这在某种程度上是合理的。
There are different people that let those departments lead their departments, which makes sense in one way.
但当缺乏整体协调性时，你懂我意思吗？
But when it's not cohesive, you know what I mean?
当没有一个清晰的线索将所有部门统一起来时，作为普通观众或粉丝，你可能看不到问题，但能感受到。
When when there's not a clear thread that brings every department into some sort of unified pattern, you might not as a regular audience or a fan, you might not see it, but you feel it.
我认为这正是Jackson你最大的优势——你深入参与每个环节，让'Jackson风格'渗透到每个部门，这就是为什么粉丝能感受到那种凝聚力，你明白我说的吗？
And I think that's one of the biggest thing that Jackson, that you've been able to do because you get so involved in every single space that ends up making it so that the thread of Jackson is a part of every department and I know that I I know that's why the fans feel that, you know what I mean?
你知道我好奇什么吗？
You know what I'm curious about?
当你谈到你的运动员愿景时，
You know, when I you talked about your, sort of, athlete Vision.
那个对自己的愿景，
Vision, right, for yourself.
比如'我要成为顶尖运动员'这种。
Like, I wanna be a supreme athlete.
并不是说运动员就不是艺术家，因为
Not to say that athletes aren't artists because
我认为他们是艺术家。
I think they are.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
但确实如此。
But Definitely.
从一个运动员转变为所谓的'艺术家'思维方式会怎样？
In the way that an athlete would transition into an artist, quote, unquote, artist way of thinking?
因为我听你们谈话的方式，感觉你们身上有这种远见。
Because I see the way that you guys are talking, like, there is a visionary side of you there.
就像，我能三百六十度全方位地看待这件事。
Like, I can see this thing three sixty holistically.
我需要我的衣橱是这样的。
I need my wardrobe to be this.
我需要我的灯光是这样的。
I need my lighting to be this.
我需要我的动作是这样的。
I need my movement to be this.
我希望我的声音是这样的。
I want my sound to be this.
所以我想我的问题是
So I guess my question is
但我明白你的意思。
But I get what you mean.
你是怎么做到如此专注，能够以这种方式看待一切？
How were you able to be, like, I'm, like, one track minded in this way to be, I can now see everything in this way.
我认为对我来说，这是一样的。
I think, to me, it's the same.
作为运动员和艺术家，你知道的，我明天可能就变成摄影师了，未来你懂我的意思吧？其实心态是一样的，只是技能不同而已。
As an athlete as an artist is a you know like I could be a photographer tomorrow like you get me in the future yeah like it's the same same mentality it's just different skill set you know.
这正是我想说的，这是一种工作态度，我一直在坚持。
That's what I'm talking about it's a work ethic I being
我觉得如果你要做一件事，那就把它做好，对吧？
feel like if you're going to do it then do it properly right?
那何必浪费时间去做呢？
Then why waste time doing it?
说实话，我注意到一件事，当我真正参与并亲手处理所有这些原本不想做的事情时，是因为每个部门——比如拍摄中的艺术部门——都只关心自己那部分。
And one thing that I noticed honestly like me getting involved and be hands on on all these stuff I didn't want to do it is because everyone is, the art, let's say in a shoot, every division only cares about their division.
而且
And
如果这个，整个作品是我的产品，是我的产出。
if this, and this whole product is my product, you know, is my output.
你觉得别人会在乎吗？但不会像我这么在乎吧？
Do you think what everyone cares, but not as much as me?
是我的儿子，是我的女儿，是我的一切。
Is my son, you know, is my daughter, it's my it's me.
是的。
Yeah.
明白吗？
You know?
没错。
Yeah.
所以没有人会比你更关心你自己，懂吗？
So no one's gonna care about you more than how you care, how much you care about yourself, you know?
这就是为什么我虽然不想做，但因为没有其他人能统筹，而且说实话我刚开始时根本没人帮忙。
So that's why I like I didn't wanna do it, but it's because there's no one to put together and I had no help honestly when I first started.
对。
Yeah.
我给你举个非常真实的例子。
Let's say I'll give you a very genuine like example.
我想要这次拍摄，但你也知道导演们的情况。
I wanted this shoot but you know directors too.
有很多艺术造诣高超的优秀导演，但导演也分不同的类型。
There are a lot of like artistic and like fabulous directors out there but there are also like different categories of director.
有些商业导演根本不知道如何拍摄音乐风格的MV，对吧？
There's like commercial directors which has no idea on how to shoot musical style music videos, right?
有些擅长拍纪录片的导演，可能并不懂如何拍摄舞蹈编排。
There's like this director that shoots documentary but it's not they they don't probably not know how to shoot dancing choreo.
所以你看，前期筹备和准备工作简直像场噩梦。
So, you know, like, the brief and the prep is is is a nightmare.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以从那时起，我就想，你知道吗？
So there was like the and that from that point, I was like, you know what?
干脆我自己来做好了。
I'll just do it myself.
我会把所有东西都学会。
I'll learn everything.
是的。
Yes.
我从你身上看到的是，一旦你锁定并投身于某件事，你就会成为最勤奋的学生。
I I what I'm getting from you is that, like, once you lock into something that you've committed yourself to, you are the the a student.
你会做最多的功课，彻底弄清楚如何打造出这件事物的最佳版本。
You are the one who does the most homework to figure out all the ins and outs of what does it take to create the best version of that thing.
我是说，你即将发行一张专辑，我知道这对你而言是个非常个人化的项目，你通过它表达自我，我们稍后可以详细聊聊这个。
I mean, you have an album coming out, and I know that was a very personal project for yourself in the way that you've expressed yourself, and we can get into that in a minute.
不过
But
是时候了吗？
Is it a time?
对。
Yeah.
可以是的。
It can be.
可以是的。
It can be.
再来一个？
Another one?
不要。
No.
在下一条商业广告里。
It's on the next commercial ad.
真的吗？
For real?
确实如此。
It is.
哦。
Oh.
哦，嘿。
Oh, hey.
干杯。
Cheers.
老兄，下个广告嘿。
Dude, next commercial Hey.
等等什么。
What wait.
等等。
Wait.
我们大概只剩十秒钟了。
We have, like, ten seconds left.
是啊。
Yeah.
十秒钟。
Ten seconds.
开始吧。
Go ahead.
不管是什么，我相信一定会很棒的。
Whatever it is, I'm sure it's it'll be amazing.
嘿。
Hey.
现在就买。
Buy it now.
现在就买，立刻马上。
Buy it, like, now.
好的。
Okay.
所以让我们深入细节。
So let's get to the nitty gritty.
让我们来点观众想看的真东西。
Let's get to the real shit that people want here.
我说的'人们'，其实是指我们自己。
When I say people, I mean us.
没错。
Right.
当我们
When We're
是这里唯一在场的人。
the only one that's here.
我们是此刻唯一在听的人。
We're the only ones that's listening right now.
你为什么想加入Kinjas？
Why do you why do you wanna join Kinjas?
不。
No.
你为什么不加入
Why don't you join
就像，这是一句谚语。
like, It's by a saying.
这是一种鼓励。
It's a Come on.
这是一句谚语，伙计。
It's a saying, man.
就像，这是对Kinja家族的欣赏与尊重。
Like, it's like, it's appreciation and respect to the Kinja, Kinja's family.
我爱你，兄弟。
I love you, man.
明白吗？
You know?
关于你的一切，我如此爱你。
Everything about you, I love you so much.
因为对我来说，Kinja的意义远超工作，懂吗？
Because to Kinja's to me, it's like, it's more than work, you know?
这不仅仅是工作。
Like, more than work.
超越工作关系，是家人般的存在。
More than work business is fam.
就像真正的家人一样。
Like, real fam.
本期播客到此结束。
That's the end of the podcast.
非常感谢大家这一季的陪伴。
Thank you guys so much for joining us this season.
就到这里了。
That's the end of it.
没有了。
No more.
所有摄像机都已关闭。
Every the camera's off.
摄像机已经正式关闭了。
Camera's officially off.
咱们开始说实话吧，杰克逊。
Let's start speaking the truth, Jackson.
这是实话吗？
That's truth?
不是。
No.
老实说，我最糟糕的编舞...我未来要合作的是什么？
Honestly, my worst choreography What am I working with in the future?
我这辈子都在说这件事。
I've been talking about this for life.
就像，我近期愿望清单上的一项，虽然不知道要多久才能实现，就是和Kinjas一起开个新综合场馆。
Like, one of the one of my, like, bucket list in the feet near future, like, I don't know how long it's gonna take, but is open up a a new complex, like, with Kinjas.
你知道，
You know,
知道吗，你现在在占用我的快问快答时间。
know, now you're eating into my lightning round questions.
不。
No.
说真的。
For real though.
说真的。
For real though.
好吧。
Okay.
首先我一直告诉
First of I've been telling
他听着。
him look.
不。
No.
我们...我们来谈谈这个吧。
Let's let's let's talk about this.
不行。
No.
我们认真谈谈这件事。
Let's talk about this seriously.
我们来谈谈这个，让粉丝们了解情况。
Let's talk about this so the fans know what's up.
好吗？
Alright?
我们讨论很久了，因为涉及到Jackson与舞蹈之间真实的关系。
We've been talking about it for a long time because of ponying into the authentic relationship that Jackson has with dance.
你他妈是个非凡的舞者。
You are a fucking phenomenal mover.
你是
You are a
你是个非常出色的舞者，力量与气势兼备。
huge You are a strong and powerful dancer.
说实话，我并不是为了镜头或别的什么，是King的锤炼造就了今天的我。
Honestly, like, I'm not trying to be because the camera or whatever, like, King just sharpened me to who I am today.
等等。
Wait.
如果你要把King牵扯进来，那咱们就得实话实说了。
If you're gonna put King just on blast, then let's let's keep it real.
你的回答并不够坦诚。
You're not the cleanest answer.
不。
No.
当然。
Of course.
当然。
Of course.
确实如此。
For sure.
我喜欢你这一点。
And I like that from you.
ISO
ISO
知道为什么吗？
You know why?
因为你们对我而言很真实。
Because you guys are real to me.
你们很诚实。
You guys are honest.
而我
And I
需要这个。
need that.
但我们该说什么呢？
But what do but what do we say?
老兄，你说什么？
What do you say, man?
你说呢，伙计？
You say, dude?
操。
Fuck.
你现在不会爆发了。
You won't blast now.
兄弟，你说什么？
What do you say, bro?
我会记住的。
I'll I'll remember.
听着，我要过渡——无论顺利与否——到你今年晚些时候即将发布的新专辑。
Look, I'm gonna transition, whether it's smooth or not, into a new album of yours that's coming out later this year.
我知道你并不想谈论这个，但事实就是如此。
I know you didn't really wanna talk about it, but it is what it is.
是魔术师。
It's Magic Man.
大概会在十月份之前发布吧。
It's gonna be, like, before October, I guess.
各位记得去听听看。
And if every check it out, guys.
这真是太棒了。
And And this is amazing.
正因为我知道你不想谈这个，我才偏要谈。
I I wanna talk about it because I know you didn't wanna talk about it.
这就是为什么我想谈论它。
That's why I wanna talk about it.
我想谈这个，因为显然，我长期以来一直非常喜爱你的音乐。
I wanna talk about it because obviously, I've I've been very akin to your music for a very long time.
请继续
Go ahead
说出你想说的话。
and say what you wanna say.
你想说什么？
What do you wanna say?
老实说，就我个人而言，我...我不太...我不是来做公关的
I honestly, to me, like, personally, I I don't, like, I'm not here to PR
我们知道的。
my We know that.
我们知道我们
We know that we're
这就是我，这就是我在给我们真实的观众，提供真正的内幕消息。
getting This this me giving this is me giving our our genuine audience, like, the real scoop.
同时，作为这个播客中的对话者，我个人也在与一些深藏在我与你关系史中的事物产生共鸣。
And at the same time, me personally, as a conversationalist in this pod resonating with something that I've had in a deep time, my relational history with you.
我听你的音乐已经很多年了，甚至追溯到你在杰克逊时期更偏向说唱风格的阶段，我觉得那很酷。
I've listened to your music for years, years, even when you were in, like, the more rap phase of Jackson, which I thought was cool.
你的声音很有型。
You have a cool voice.
你的嗓音有一种强烈的沙哑感，你知道，我现在可能过于挑剔了。
You have a a strong raspy, you know, I'm I'm overly critical right now.
重点是，即将在今年晚些时候发行的这张新专辑，毫无疑问是你迄今为止最好的作品。
Point is, this newest album that's coming up, yeah, later this year, is by and far the best album that you put out.
以我个人完全主观的艺术观点来看，因为我觉得它最契合你天然的灵魂特质，那种声音。
In my personal subject totally subjective artistic opinion, cause I feel like it's the most righteous with your natural soul, the sound.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
那种声音。
The sound.
它它它不像你之前的作品那么偏向嘻哈风格。
It's it's it's not more as hip hop as your last ones are.
这几乎像是嘻哈和摇滚的融合体。
It's almost like a blend of both hip hop and rock.
我觉得摇滚对你来说是个非常合适的领域。
And I feel like rock is such a righteous space for you.
可能听起来有点怪，但摇滚真的很适合你的嗓音和能量，再结合嘻哈和流行的元素。
Like It might sound weird, but it's such a righteous space for your voice and your energy matching that with the kind of the bang of, like, hip hop and pop flavor.
这张新专辑绝对会大爆。
This next album is a fucking hit.
所有Jackson的粉丝都还没准备好迎接你音乐生涯下一阶段有多炸裂，我迫不及待想让所有人听到，因为我觉得这是我所知Jackson Wayne音乐中最成熟真实的版本。
Anybody who's a Jackson fan is not even ready for how sick this next phase of music for you is, and I just can't wait for everybody to dive into it because I think that this is the most mature and authentic version of Jackson Wayne music I've heard in my entire history of knowing you.
我觉得这张新专辑充满了力量。
I think I just feel feel there's so much power in this new album.
我们得好好剖析它。
And we gotta unpack it.
是啊。
Yeah.
我明白，我从你身上感受到了，我看到的是——你不想多谈新专辑的事，好吧，我理解你即将发片但重点不在自己身上。
And I know and I get it from you and I I'm what I'm seeing from you is like, yeah, you don't wanna talk about, yeah, okay, I got an album coming out and it's not about me.
你只想轻松相处，这很酷。
You wanna just kinda hang out, which is dope.
但我在想，嘿，我刚了解到关于你的一些事，我很想深入聊聊。
But I'm thinking like, yo, I just learned something about you that I want to know about.
比如，
Like, what's
而我最欣赏的就是这一点。
And I love this all about.
灵感来源是什么？
What's the inspiration?
它是从何而来的？
Where did it come from?
到底是什么造就了这张专辑的独特气质？
What what like, what made this album what it is?
因为我他妈太爱它了。
Because I fucking love it.
靠，老兄。
Fuck, man.
说实话，这不仅仅是关于音乐，不仅仅是歌词，而是整个作品包罗万象。
Honestly, it's not just about the music, it's not just about the lyrics, not just it's everything as a package.
这十首歌，视觉呈现，更多是关于我的基调和态度。每次发布作品——无论是编舞还是其他——我都在不断学习，懂吗？
The the these 10 songs, the visuals, it's more about the tone and attitude of me and every time when I release stuff for anything like it could be a choreo, anything that I release, I'm always like learning, you know?
就像你能看到的那样，不知道你是否能感受到我从四年前至今的蜕变，每次发布作品我都能领悟更多。
Like you see them, I don't know if you can feel it like how I evolved from like four years ago and every time when I release stuff I learn more.
就像不断有新的窗口打开，我越来越多地看到自己的不同面向。
Oh there's something like more windows, more more windows opens, you know, more and more I see something something else of myself.
如果让你用语言描述，从上张专辑到这张正在制作、即将发布的新专辑，最大的变化是什么？
If if you could, from your last album to this album, this current one that you're working on, you're about to release, And if you could put into words, what is the change?
这种进化具体体现在哪里？
What is the evolution?
这种能量是什么？
What is the energy?
太多东西了。
So many things.
我思考问题的方式。
The way the way I I think about stuff.
比如说，以前我总会顾虑重重。
For example, back then I would think that there's so many worries.
像是'我该做这个因为更商业化'，或是'那边有群观众我该怎么公关'
Like oh but should I do this because it's more commercial or should I do this oh but there's this crowd over there but what I do for this PR?
这些障碍过滤掉了很多我真正想做的事。而现在这张专辑，我只想说：去他的，这次就做我自己。
Like that barrier and that filters a lot of the stuff that I really want to do, you know, and now for this album it's just like I don't care anymore, you know, let's be me one time.
就算失败，我也会坦然接受。
If this fails, you know, and I would know and I'll I'll respect that.
我心知肚明。
I'll know.
我会学到更多。
I'll learn learn more.
但至少让我尝试一次。
But at least let me try one time.
出于好奇，是否有什么事情成为了你转变的契机？
Out of curiosity, was there some sort of thing that kind of like tipped you over the edge?
就像，你知道吗？
Like, you know what?
这次让我为自己尝试些不同的东西，而不是为了取悦特定群体——虽然不是说你在刻意讨好谁——是什么让你决定要为自己做些事情？
Let me try something else for myself this time versus trying to sort of like not to say that you were doing it to to please a certain crowd or anything like that, but what was the thing that made you feel like you wanted to do something for you?
我一直在为自己做事，但过去顾虑太多。
I have been doing stuff for myself but I had a lot of worries.
现在每次都能更做自己。
Now is every time it's more me.
每次都在越来越像真正的我，我在进化。虽然不敢说这是终极形态，但启发我的是过去一年半的低谷期——那时我心态极其消极，独自挣扎，密集的行程像死循环，整个人迷茫又缺乏灵感。说实话当时我不知所措，时常感到窒息。作为工作狂的我，压力大时就会封闭自己，因为我觉得既然压力源自问题，那就该直接解决问题。
Every time it's just like more me more me more me more me more I'm evolving and I won't say this is like the ultimate form but I think what inspired me was for the last year and a half I was in my lows like I had a really negative mindset and I was alone and everything you know my schedules after schedules felt like it's a loop and I was lost I wasn't inspired I didn't know what to do honestly and and I couldn't breathe on it, I was suffocating like from time to time and then and you know like I would call myself like I'm a workaholic and whenever I'm stressed I would not talk to people because I feel like if the reason why I'm stressed is because you know there are problems then I'll just solve it.
我不会和任何人交流，因为你知道和别人说了又能怎样呢。
I'm not going to talk to anybody else communicate with anybody else because what are you going to do with it you know.
所以我总是想独自解决所有问题，正因如此我越陷越深，变得极其消极，当时是和我的制作人艾萨克一起。
So I tend to want to do everything by myself and I think because of that I went deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and I got so negative and and it was with Isaac, like my producer.
特别提一下，他是我合作过的一位非常有才华的制作人。有天在录音室里，我们正在剪辑歌曲，我不想浪费时间，我希望在录音室高效工作，快速完成。
Shout out One of my yeah, one of a very talented producer that I work with and he was in a session one day, he's like, we were cutting songs and I didn't want to waste time, I want to be efficient when I'm in the studio, chop chop is done.
但当时我状态很差，完全无法表演，整个人都快崩溃了。然后他说：听着，我们今天不录了。艾萨克是个好人，但他当时其实是想......你知道吗？
You know, but then I couldn't perform, like I couldn't, I was I was like freaking out and then he's like, yo, sit down to let you know what, we're not going to do this today, you know, but you know Isaac is like a nice guy, but he he intended to, you know what?
闭嘴，我们今天到此为止。
Shut up and and and we we're stopping today.
关掉所有设备，然后他和我进行了一次对话，比如‘跟我说说，怎么了？’
Turn everything off and then he had a conversation with like, speak to me like, what's up?
我当时就说‘不，我们别浪费时间了’。
And I'm like, no, let's not waste time.
我们直接剪掉这首歌，或许明天需要重新剪辑让它更好，我必须不断进步。他让我坐下，我们进行了一次真诚的对话，那一刻对我来说非常神奇，我从没想过言语真的能产生如此重要的影响。
Let's just cut this song and and and maybe I need to recut it tomorrow to get it better I just have to be better and better better better you know and he sat me down and we had a conversation honestly that moment it felt felt very magical to me like I never never thought, you know, words really mean mean shit.
那次对话对我触动极深，意义重大，力量如此强大，直击心灵。
It means a lot like so powerful that it it hit me so so deep, you know, that conversation.
是啊，我开始想也许我该多和人交流，并意识到身边有积极的人是多么重要。
Yeah and and I started to you know what maybe I should communicate with people and I realized you know how how important it is to have positive people around you.
然后我想我是来到了洛杉矶。
And then I think I came to LA.
我遇到了造型师和导演，他们告诉了我同样的话。
I met up with stylists and directors they told me the same thing.
他们说，你永远不知道明天会发生什么。
They're like, you know, you know, you never know what happens tomorrow, you know.
所以，做你自己，专注于自己。
So like, be you and focus on you.
别想太多。
Stop thinking too much.
所有这些对我意义非凡，但在我生命的大部分时间里，虽然我是个社交型的人，却从不愿在低谷时向人倾诉，因为觉得会给对方带来压力。
And all these things mean so much to me but whereas before for majority of my life I never wanted to like I'm a social guy but I never really want to talk be be be be be be going to people when I'm having a bad time or when in my lows Cause I feel like I'm putting pressure on them, whoever that I'm reaching out to.
你明白我的意思吗？
Do you get where I'm coming from?
完全明白。
100%.
对。
Right.
这就像是我自己的事。
It's like it's my deal.
就像是我自己的的问题。
It's like my my problems.
br>每个人都有自己的问题要处理。
Everybody has problems, like their own problem.
我为什么要用我的问题来让你难受呢？
Why would I wanna bring my problem onto you and make you miserable?
你懂我意思吧？
You get me?
但我以前不知道，其实告诉别人你状态不好是可以的，你懂吧。
But I didn't know like it's okay to tell people that you're not okay, you know.
这样他们就能产生共鸣
So they can relate
与你。
to you.
这样他们就能坦然面对自己的问题，因为他们发现自己敬仰的人也有类似的困扰。
So they can feel okay having their own problems because they realize that some of the people that they look up to also have similar problems.
没错。
Right.
老兄，我们都是凡人啊。
Dude, we're all human, man.
要知道，我们的油箱容量有限，迟早需要重新加满。
You know, we only have so much gas in our tank before we have to refill it.
而且，有些人的油箱更大些。
And, and some people have a bigger tank.
你知道吗？
You know?
有些人的容量更大，甚至能在油量见底时继续前行，表现得好像油箱满满一样。
Some people have a bigger capacity to just go even run on fumes and and and act as if you have a full tank.
杰克逊的油箱很大。
Jackson's tank is big.
我我看得出来。
I I see that.
我明白了。
I see.
你的油箱超大，老兄。
You got a huge tank, my guy.
你有一个
You got a
超大油箱，兄弟。
huge tank, bro.
老兄，你的油箱简直是我见过最大的。
Your tank is like, biggest tank I've ever seen, dude.
嘿，凯尔。
Hey, Kyle.
伙计们，我有个大油箱。
I have a big tank, guys.
那...那就是那个片段。
That that's the that's the clip right there.
不。
No.
但说实话，我觉得在这个过程中我感受到了很多东西，你知道，就像整个等待，我们还有多少时间？
But honestly, I feel like a lot of stuff that I felt in this process, you know, like the whole wait, how much time do we have?
你想多久都行，兄弟。
As much as you want, bro.
你们已经排练过了。
You had a rehearsal.
严格来说，严格来说
Technically technically
不
No.
我是说，你知道吗？
I'm saying like You know what?
有些东西让人不舒服。
It's Something is uncomfortable.
是广告的问题，伙计。
It's the ads, man.
就像，感觉我像是在死亡倒计时。
Like, it feels like I'm in a countdown to death.
哦，这就对了。
Oh, there you go.
广告的完美时机。
Perfect time for an ad.
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