"仙女变装皇后豚鼠"（与Chappell Roan合作）

我和Sasha，Sasha Colby和我

Sasha and I Sasha Colby and I

我们聊着，你知道，我就说，我是说，对，大家都很生气。但我没有。我就问，她还好吗？然后Sasha说，是啊姐妹，她在笑呢。

were talking, you know, and I was just like, I mean, yeah, everyone's mad. I was like But I'm not. I was like, I was like, is she okay? And and Sasha was like, yeah, girl. She's laughing.

她乐在其中。我说，好吧，那就

She's loving. I was like, okay. Well, then

就这样吧。

That's it.

没关系。

That's fine.

我说，网上的人不必替我生气。

I'm like, wire people don't have to get mad on my behalf.

没错。

Right.

但我们没事。

But I'm we're fine.

是啊。对。

Yeah. Yes.

那还有什么好生气的？再说了，这就是《周六夜现场》的常态。这是喜剧。对，确实。

So what is there to be mad about? Also, this is what happens like, that is SNL. It's comedy. Yeah. Sure.

就是，它非常轻松愉快。对我来说，这完全是无害的。

Like, it is so lighthearted. It was, like, to me, harmless.

天啊。

Oh my god.

而且即使你想深入探讨，它也是无害的。是的，这就像喜剧一样。我不明白。我就是不知道界限在哪里

And for people to even if you were to push it further, harmless. Yeah. It's like it's comedy. I don't understand. Like, I I just don't know the line

你想要。

you want.

就是会对某个人特别激动，这就像是一种爱的轰炸，或者说是痴迷。他们对你着迷到愿意为你而死。

Just get worked up over someone that they are very it's like a it's like a love bombing thing or it's like limerence. It's like they're obsessed with you, and so they will die.

这是一种单向关系。我的意思是，这就像是我需要保护这个人。他们表达了需要帮助，或者我感觉我在那种情况下投射了我自己可能需要的东西。但这很难，就像你说的，当你在网上看到这些时，这是开玩笑的吗？在我们这个时代，这种事情应该好笑吗？

They're it's it's parasocial. I mean, what it is is it's like, I need to protect this person. They've expressed that they need help, or I feel like I'm projecting what I might need in that situation. But it's hard, like, you're saying, like, when you look online, is it supposed to be a joke? Is this thing supposed to be funny in a time when we are

一点都不好笑。

Nothing's funny.

一点都不好笑。

Nothing's funny.

当很少

When very few

事情现在不好笑对吧

things is not funny right

与此同时，那真是个复杂又怪异的时期，因为我记得收到人们发来的短信问：‘鲍文和查普尔还好吗？’我当时就想，首先，他们其实没那么熟。其次，我确信他们没事。第三，我们凭什么假定人们没有幽默感？这可是查普尔罗恩啊，各位。

And meanwhile, it's like that was a really complicated weird time because it was like like, I remember getting texts from people being like, are Bowen and Chapel okay? I was like, first of all, they don't really know each other that well. Oh, so of all, I'm sure they are. Third of all, why are we assuming that people don't have senses of humor? It's like it's ChapelRone, y'all.

就像我当时在看你的节目，所以我才形容你有种有趣的流行凯莎风格。你戴着那顶可笑的假发登场，说着‘是我，查普尔’，仿佛我们认不出来似的。我就觉得这姑娘真有趣，大家都很开心，这就是流行巨星范儿。

It's like, I I was watching your show, and that's why I was describing you as, like, there was, like, this fun pop Kesha line. You come out in this shit flan wig, and you're like, it's me, Chapel, like, as if we weren't supposed to know. I'm like, this girl is funny. We're all having fun. It's pop stardom.

你懂的吧？

It's you know?

即使你觉得那个情绪小品不好笑或怎样，你完全可以保持沉默。

Even if, like, even even if you didn't, like, think the mooding sketch was funny or anything, you don't have to say anything.

是啊，没错。沉默总是选项。

Yeah. Right. There's always silence.

就像，你永远可以选择不发表意见。

Like, you don't you can always not say something.

对，没错。

Yeah. Right.

知道吗？在那情况下，人们是否为我发声对我来说没区别。真的。我既没觉得被保护，也没觉得被冷落。

And you know what? People sticking up for me in that situation or not sticking up for me made me feel no different. Absolutely. I didn't feel protected, and I didn't feel unprotected. Right.

因为无论如何我都不需要那些。

So because I didn't need it either way.

确实。

Sure.

是啊。因为我并没有被冒犯到。完全没有。

Yeah. Because it I was not offended. Totally.

我希望我们能认真谈谈这件事。你喜欢服务型主导者的哪些方面？

I want us to have a serious conversation about this. What do you love about service topping?

好吧。我之前不知道服务型主导者是什么意思。

Okay. I didn't know what service topping was.

但你认为自己是这类人吗？

But do you identify as one?

因为我只是从一篇文章里了解到的。

Because I just knew anything from me. Article.

你读了篇文章。

You read an article.

对我来说，这就像是石顶吗？

And to me, is it like stone top?

是这样的，去年我有过一次经历（不是最近），对方说'你想让我做什么来让你感觉舒服？我是个服务型主导者'。这些话让我觉得，我通过观察别人享受我的行为来获得快感。

It's this is I had an encounter in the last year, not not recently, but someone who was like, what do you wanted me to do to make you feel good? I'm a service top. Oh. Said these words to me. Like, I get off on watching someone take pleasure in what I'm doing.

真正的给予者。

A true giver.

抱歉。这不就是性行为吗？我真的很抱歉。

Sorry. Isn't that just sex? I'm so sorry.

说实话，谢谢你这么说。

Honestly, that is thank you for saying that.

非常抱歉。

So sorry.

服务至上？抱歉，你继续。

Service tops? Sorry. Go ahead.

他们在心里认为是在为你服务，有时候我的意思是，我们肯定都遇到过这种情况

They are in their mind, they are servicing you, which sometimes I mean, I'm sure we've been in situations

变态的方式？

kinky way?

我甚至不确定他们是否会认为这是变态，但有时候就像，我想做爱是因为我想感觉良好。他们想做爱是因为想看到你感觉良好。这说得通吗？

And I wouldn't even I don't even know if they would identify it as kinky, but, like, sometimes it's like, I wanna have sex because I wanna feel good. They wanna have sex because they wanna see you feel good. Does that make sense?

但这反过来又让他们感觉良好，所以你懂我的意思吗？好吧。所以我同意你的观点。有时候我觉得我们对所有事情都太执着于贴标签了。

But that in turn makes them feel good, and so it's you know what I mean? Okay. So I agree with you. Sometimes I think we go crazy with the labels of everything.

我不明白。

I don't understand.

好吧。

Okay.

我是说，所以我问这是不是变态，因为这可能不会让我...我可能不理解这种愉悦对你来说意味着什么，但我还是会这么做，因为，比如，你喜欢被支配之类的。但对我来说，我以为性就是这样运作的。

I mean, I that's why I asked if it's kinky because it's like, this may not make me like, I may not understand this pleasure thing for you, but I'm gonna do it anyway because, like, you like to be dominated or something or, like, whatever. But to me, like, I just thought that's how sex works.

是的。但对你来说，做一个给予者意味着什么呢？

Yeah. But what does being a a giver mean to you then?

那只是意味着我想做一些让你感觉好的事情。是的。我是一个愿意付出时间的人。

That just means that I'm I wanna do things that make you feel good. Yeah. I'm I'm a I will do things I will just give my time.

如果我

And if I

是的。如果我接受了，如果我是一个索取者，难道我不是在回报你什么吗？通过接受它。那就是

Yeah. And if I take that, if I'm a taker, aren't I giving you something in return? By taking it. That that's

我认为那是

that I think that's

我们三个人都有点搞混了的地方。

where all three of us are kind of getting a little mixed up.

我们迷失了。也许我也迷失了。我不...我喜欢

We're lost. Maybe I'm I'm lost too. I don't I like

我是个枕头公主。我非常清楚自己的位置。

I'm a pillow princess. I I know exactly where I am.

好吧。很好。我只是开玩笑。

Okay. Good. I Just kidding.

是吗？

Are you?

不，我...我才不是什么枕边公主。

No. I'm I'm not a pillow princess.

我有时...有时候我确实是个枕边公主。

I'm an I'm sometimes I'm a pillow princess.

我累了。我

I'm tired. I

觉得可能我只是喜欢被动接受。我当时其实没多想什么。我...我状态超棒。就是单纯觉得'哦，这很有趣'。

think maybe I just like to take it like a taker. I wasn't really, like, actually thinking about anything. I I was Amazing. I was just like, oh, that's fun. Yeah.

因为给予者和接受者嘛。没错。我感觉自己像个接受者。这就是我脑子里冒出的念头。但当我看到那篇关于服务型主导者的文章时，我就觉得'酷'。

Because give her and a taker. Yes. I feel like a taker. Like, that's literally where my mind went. But when I saw the article about, like, service tops and whatever, I was just like, cool.

根本不知道还有这种分类。也不是故意的。我就是单纯喜欢。我确实很欣赏流行文化这点——他们总能无中生有。你懂我

Did not know that existed. Wasn't the intention. Like, I just liked it. I do love that about pop culture is that they will make something out of nothing. Like, you know what

意思吗？

I mean?

就像他们会...人们会为每个

Like, they made this people will make, like, this entire outline of, like, what each

细节赋予意义。

Thing means.

对啊。比如我演的角色在女同社群里的象征意义。而我真实想法是：完全听不懂你在说什么。我只是想穿件西装外套而已。

Thing. Yeah. Like, what each character I played means in, like, the lesbian community. And I literally was like, don't know what you're talking about. I just wanted to wear a blazer.

就像

Like

我本来想放个马桶搋子。

I wanted to put a plunger.

你之前在Apple上聊到，其实你想要的是乔治·斯特雷特那种风格的歌。对吧？就是想在舞台上感受那种拽拽的乡村范儿，那种气质。对。我觉得这和那种...

You were talking on Apple about, like, really what it was was you wanted a George Strait type of song. Right? Like, wanted to feel on stage like that kind of swaggy country, like, character Yeah. Which I think is different than, like

我最嗨的就是...让你露出高潮脸。

I get off on Yeah. Making you o face.

我以为这...就是性的意义所在。

I thought that was, like, the point of sex.

当然。确实是。

Sure. It is.

对我来说，我给你快乐，这本身也让我快乐。

Like, for me, I give you pleasure, and that gives me pleasure.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这是史上最健康的性话题讨论了。

This is the healthiest discourse on sex anyone's ever had.

但你懂的？

But it you know?

谢天谢地Ruth医生死了。她现在怕是在坟墓里辗转反侧。有次我问Ruth医生对PrEP（暴露前预防）的看法，她完全无法理解。她一脸茫然地问‘什么？’当时是在圣丹斯电影节上。

Thank god doctor Ruth is dead. She she's rolling in her grave. One time I asked doctor Ruth what she thought of PrEP, and she didn't she couldn't it did not compute. She was like, what? I was like, it it it was at the Sundance Film Festival.

我说这是让男同能无保护性交的药物。她直接说‘我讨厌这个’。然后我只能‘哦...好吧’。但那可是Ruth医生本人啊。

Was like, it's so gay guys can have unprotected sex. She goes, well, I hate that. No. And then I was like, oh, oh, okay. And then I but it was fully Doctor.

我以为她肯定知道PrEP是什么，结果她完全不懂。我当时就想，可能在性革命这场浪潮里，我们完全错频了。

Ruth. And I'm thinking she knows, like, what PrEP is, and she did not. Then I was like, okay. Maybe we've we've missed each other in terms of, like, the sexual revolution.

我说这是个重大认知重置的原因是，如今人们谈论性的时候，已经彻底与愉悦感脱节了

The reason the reason I say this is actually a huge reset for people the way people talk about sex in this day and age is that it has been so divorced from pleasure

确实。

Yeah.

对很多人来说...这个观点很有意思。

I think for a lot of people. That's interesting.

这就是我和男人约炮时的切身感受。

I mean, that is why that is my experience when I hooked up with men.

真的吗？

Yeah. Really?

所以我才知道自己是同性恋。嗯哼。

That's how I knew I was gay. Uh-huh.

因为那些性经历从来不是为了你，也从不让你感到被重视。

Because it was never it was never felt like it was about you or for you.

不，我只是觉得太做作了。是的。而且，就像，我只是做了我以为他们想要的，即使那感觉并不好。也许对我来说，当我这样时，就是所谓的‘k’吧。

No. I just felt so performative. Yeah. And, like, so like, I just did what I thought they wanted even if it didn't feel good. And maybe that's what to me, when I'm like, k.

服务型主导，是这个意思吗

Service top, is that

这像是另一种角色。

It's like another role.

即使不想也要提供服务？对吧。我不知道。就像，我只想做能让伴侣感觉好的事，而当我让他们感觉好时，那也会让我感觉好。

Do service even if you don't want to? Right. I don't know. Like, I I just wanna do what my partner makes them feel good, and when I make them feel good, I've that makes me feel good.

对。

Right.

所以我觉得如果和我约会的人只做服务型斯通托普，我真的会不知所措。

So I think I would not really know what to do if someone I was hooking up with was only serve Stonetop.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

我不认为我会知道该怎么办，因为我会想为他们做点什么。

I don't think I would really know what to do because I would wanna do something for them.

你懂吗？

You know?

是啊。我们是不是在说‘服务型主导’这个词有点...感觉像是理所当然的事。就像说，我是个感官型被动方。当然了，你是。懂我意思吗？

Yeah. Are we saying that the term service top is a little bit it feels like it's a given thing. It's like saying, well, I'm a I'm a sensory bottom. Like, of course, you are. You know what I mean?

是啊。

Yeah.

你屁股里有东西，你会感觉到的。

You have something in your ass, you're gonna feel that.

就像，为什么只有我我我...我在做零时状态最好，而且我能感觉到。嗯，对。你在说什么？你懂

It's like, why I only I I I I'm the I'm best when I bottom, and I can feel it. Well, yeah. What are you talking about? You know

我的意思吗？

what I mean?

那好吧。这也太疯狂了。

That okay. Like, that's crazy.

不是的。但你知道吗？这需要时间，我觉得很多人说这些是因为...这更像是在表达他们并非真正喜欢的东西，而更像是人们在说'不'。就像，我确实有性自主权，我确实有性身份，但事实上这需要很长时间。

It's no. But you know what, though? Like, it takes time to, like I think a lot of people say this stuff because they're it's it's more a thing of it's less them expressing what they actually like and more people being like, no. Like, I do have sexual agency. I do have a sexual identity when the fact is it takes a lot of time.

完全同意。我甚至觉得直到快三十岁，我才真正开始有意识地摆脱从A片里看到的那些性爱方式。是的。我非常尊重性工作者群体等等。但当你年轻时接触太多这类内容，你自然会想模仿看到的东西，而这本质上不会每次都让你觉得自然。

Totally. Like, I don't even think it wasn't until my late twenties that I was even having real sex that, like, consciously took me out of what I had seen in, like, porn. Yeah. Or what I which I do think and I have so much respect for everyone, like, in the sex work community, etcetera. But I do think when you're ingesting a lot of it young, you, of course, wanna emulate the things that you see, and that is, like, inherently not gonna be natural to you every time.

嗯。所以从某种程度上说，它就像个老师。嗯。虽然这种方式可能有点坎坷。嗯。我刚才坐在这里就在想，你知道吗，我上周有过一次很棒的性体验，然后我就想——恭喜你啊。

Mhmm. So it's like it's like in that way, it becomes a teacher Mhmm. In a way that can be a little rocky. Mhmm. It wasn't and I was just thinking sitting here, like, you know, I had a great sexual experience, like, last week, and I was like Congratulations.

太感谢了。也要给Verse和Flip点赞。你。没错。太棒了。

Thank you so much. And shout out Verse also, Flip. You. Yes. Amazing.

而且我真的开始接受自己作为零号的定位，但突然间...

And I've I've I've really started, like, owning myself as, like, the bottom that I am, but then all of a sudden.

爱。

Love.

所以我想说的是，我需要停止给自己贴单一标签。我认为我们都应该停止定义自己为单一特质，而是对不同的经历和表达保持开放，因为我觉得很多时候我们只是渴望归属于某种认同。

So but that's what I guess what I mean is it's like, I need to stop telling myself I'm one thing. I think we all need to stop telling ourselves our one thing and be open to those different experiences and expressions because I think a lot of it is just us wanting to belong in something.

是啊。这太真实了。当找到一个完全契合自己的标签时，感觉真的很棒。

Yeah. That is so real. It's so nice when there's a label that fits you perfectly.

没错。

Right.

因为那种感觉就像...呃...比如当我...那个词是什么来着？就是只对朋友产生性吸引力的那种取向？

Because that makes you be like, ugh. Like, when I what is the what is the one that is where you only are sexually attracted to people that you're friends with? It's like

我不知道这个。

I don't know that.

就是你必须先建立非常深厚的关系，才会想和他们亲密。

It's a it's like you have to have, like, a really strong relationship to, like, feel like you wanna up with them.

而且不仅仅是亲密关系，还包括友谊层面。

And it's not even just, like, intimate. It's also friendship.

是性吸引吗？到底是什么？我不确定。

Is me sexual? What is it? I don't know.

我也不确定。

I'm not sure.

是罗斯和瑞秋。

It's it's Ross and Rachel.

当我听说这个的时候，我就觉得，哦，这对我来说很合理。比如，我不能也不想刚认识一个人就随便发生关系。这就是为什么我被搭讪时会这么不舒服。对，因为我会想，我又不认识你。

It's when I heard about that, I was like, oh, that makes sense to me. Like, I can't I don't wanna just hook up with people I just met. Like, that is why I'm so uncomfortable when I'm hit on. Yeah. Like, because I'm like, I don't know you.

对。对。对。没错。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

所以这就是为什么我会惹上麻烦，最后和我的朋友约会。然后我就想，你懂我意思吗？总是这样。

And that is why I get myself in trouble and I'll date my friends. Then I'm like you know what I mean? That is always what happens.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

所以，这就是为什么当人们一开始就那么大胆时，我会觉得很反感。

And so, like, that's why I'm so it's such a turn off when people, like, are so bold at the beginning.

是啊。因为我会想，我又不认识你。反正你得小心这种人。根据我的经验，如果一开始就特别大胆的人，好吧，你就是这种人。

Yeah. Because I'm like, don't know you. You gotta watch those anyway. Like, if people are really bold at the beginning, my experience is, okay. You're this is for you.

对。你懂我意思吗？比如，我们都经历过一些爱情轰炸，我相信大家都有。然后就觉得，这不可能，你怎么可能这样。

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, we've experienced some love bombing, and it's I'm sure we all have. And it's like, this there's no way you're you're like this.

是啊。我甚至还问过一个问题。

Yeah. I've even asked a question.

我曾经...我曾经往后一靠，挑起眉毛，然后就想，怎么...怎么...是啊。你怎么可能...

I've I've I've sat back, cocked the brow, and been like, how how? Yeah. How can you be

这个？是啊。

this? Yeah.

然后他们还有另一句话。什么话？我拿到的那句是，我们值得拥有美好的事物。我们是好人。我当时在想，这是在哪儿读到的？

And then they have another line. What's line? The one I got the one I got was, we deserve to have good things. We're good people. And I was Where'd read that?

妈的。对。你在哪儿读到这个的？下一个。总之。

Motherfucker. Right. Where'd you read that? Next. Anyways.

想点更聪明的。

Think of something smarter.

Snap a

Snap a

bull cap.

bull cap.

但有些人，比如比如Period。当Snapple瓶盖。Snapple瓶盖。你你是...我现在对人们排练整件事再也不感到惊讶了。就像，你后来发现他们有个准备好的段子，在你坐下参加任何他们安排的会面时就要表演。

But some but people, like like Period. The when Snapple cap. Snapple cap. You you're I'm never surprised anymore when people have rehearsed the whole thing. Like, you find out later they had a bit that they were gonna do when you sat down at whatever it is they were meeting.

就像，他们会研究些开场白来和你的朋友说，特别是我提到过的像你这样的人。

Like, they research things to say to you up top with your friends, especially someone like you I had mentioned.

关于那种会调查你信息的人。

About, like, people that research things about you.

是啊。不。好吧，是的。但也像是，我要说这个关于名人的笑话因为我知道他喜欢名人什么的。

Yeah. No. Well, yes. But also it's like, I'm gonna say I'm gonna say this joke about a celebrity because I know he likes celebrities or whatever.

那个，不。我在想的是，比如，那些你不能直接谷歌搜索的人，

That, nope. I was thinking of, like, people that can't you can't just Google,

比如，维基页面。

like, a Wiki page.

对，对。随便吧。我想，对我来说，那可能已经消失了，对你来说，让别人去猜可能

Right. Right. Whatever. I guess, like, for me, that's, like, gone and probably, like, for you, like, get people it's

消失了。更难了。

gone. Harder.

它消失了。比如，人们可以，某种程度上猜你可能喜欢什么，然后，比如，操纵一句话，可能最适合你，因为他们了解你。对，对，对。

It's gone. Like, people can, like, kind of guess what you might like and, like, like, manipulate a sentence that maybe would work best for you because they know you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

对，对，对。比如，一个普通的酒吧，以前，我总是，你知道的，我想

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, a regular bar, I'm always, you know, before, I guess

去年之前。

Before last year.

去年之前。如果我，比如，有个搭讪台词，我会觉得，那是我只能笑。

Before last year. If I, like, had a pickup line, I'd be like, that's I I can only laugh.

对，对。

Yeah. Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

就像，这太好笑了。

Like It's hilarious.

因为我就是觉得他们总得试试看。

Because I'm just like but they had to try.

你知道吗？

You know what?

这就是

That's the

问题是他们都在尝试，每个人都在尝试。有些人认为如果我带着一大堆要说的话进去，并且真的像排练过那样准备，我会感觉好一些。但有时候，就像值得一问：我们什么时候才能看到真实的你？因为那可能需要很长时间，如果你明白我的意思？

thing is it's like they're trying, and everyone's trying. It's like some people think and if if I go in with an arsenal of things to say and I really, like, you know, dress rehearsed what this is gonna be, I'll feel better about it. But, you know, sometimes it's just like it is worth being like, okay. When are we gonna get to the real you? Because because that could take a long time if you look you know?

你觉得如果人们知道你是谁，那会是像开关一样，要么开要么关，还是

Do you feel like if people know who you are, it's like turn off, turn on, or

就诚实一点。对。对。对。对吧？

just be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right?

看情况。这真的要看情况。

Depends. It just depends.

确实要看情况。但我非常警惕，如果有人知道我是谁，如果某人是个粉丝，而我，比如，对他们有意思或者开始了一段关系，但我不知道他们

It does depend. But I am very weary if someone knows who if someone is a fan and I, like, have hit on them or something and, like, started, like, a relationship with them and I did not know they

是

were

a

a

粉丝。嗯哼。

fan. Mhmm.

这让我感到害怕。

That is scary to me.

是啊，真尴尬。

Yeah. Embarrassing.

因为我觉得尴尬，而且我不信任你。比如，你会截图我们说的每句话吗？对吧。我就变得特别多疑这类事情。妹子，我干脆一直这么说话算了，因为那些该死的唇语...

Because I'm I feel embarrassed, and also I'm like, I don't trust you. And, like, are you screenshotting everything we're saying? Right. Are you I just get really I've become so paranoid about that stuff. Like, I'm like, girl, I'll just talk like this all the time because those freaking lip

解读员太搞笑了。我们最近还聊过那些唇语解读员，就像...

readers are so funny. The lip readers, we were talking about that recently. It's like

愿上帝保佑唇语解读员。我们需要那些姑娘们。

Which God bless the lip readers. We need those girls.

确实需要。当你想知道却又不在现场时很有趣，但...

We do. It is fun when you when you wanna know and you're on the other side of But, like

他们也不总是对的。

They ain't right all the time.

没错，他们不是。

No. They're not.

我来告诉你，在格莱美颁奖礼上，那场面简直像他妈的全开放式设计。太疯狂了，所有人都在俯视着你。

I'll tell you that. At the Grammys, you're like it's fucking open concept. It's crazy. All these people are looking down at you.

这几乎像是故意设计的。他们真正做的一件事就是录下我的反应发出去，比如'看Chapel看Benson Boone'，或者'看Sabrina Carpenter看这个人'之类的。然后你就会想，我们为什么要看这些艺人看东西？突然间你的手指就开始蠢蠢欲动，我该点开吗？但其实不该。

It's almost like it's designed for that. One thing that they really did this is the recording out of me, had posted, like, watch Chapel watch Benson Boone or, like, watch Sabrina Carpenter watch this person, etcetera. And it's just like, why are we watching these artists watch the thing? And then all of a sudden, you're like, your finger starts going like, should I click? And you're like, I mean, no.

很奇怪，但为什么会有这种东西？

It's weird, but why is that available?

因为他们太想抓住你了。

Because they want so bad to catch you.

抓住

Catch

你。这就是唯一的原因。他们他妈的就是想抓住你。

you. That's the only reason. They just wanna fucking catch you.

那如果你整天脑子里都在想这个，怎么能不疑神疑鬼？

So then why wouldn't you be paranoid if, like, that's on your mind all

整天？

day?

这就是我一直在想的。我就觉得

That's what I'm thinking about always. I'm just like

是啊。

Yeah.

我不得不一直思考这个问题。我不会赢。这不是我能赢或不能赢的问题。我就是不会赢。没错。

I have to think about all the time. I won't win. It's not that I can or can't win. I won't. Right.

就像，无论如何都不会。

Like, no matter what.

字面意思。

Literally.

是的。我赢不了这个。

Yeah. I will not win this.

你不是客服。仅此而已。

You're not customer service. That's all.

但是，还有，就像，我不是客服，而这是其他所有人的期待，仿佛在对抗我整个人性。这太疯狂了。是啊。但这不是他们的错。就像，名人文化就是这样，我们在其中寻找快乐，也坠入地狱般的深渊，而这是第一次，你的评论变得重要。

But, also, it's like, I'm not customer service, and it's everyone else's expectation, like, against my entire humanity. Like, it's so crazy. Yeah. But it's not their fault. It's like, that's how celebrity culture is where we find our happiness, our, like, depths of hell, and for the first time, your comment matters.

这是第一次，你说的话会被人注意到。

For the first time, something you say, people notice.

是啊。

Yeah.

这就是为什么那些热门评论都很刻薄，因为在一个你一直被告诉无足轻重的国家里，这是第一次你的声音有了分量。没错。所以我认为心理学家研究人们为什么在网上憎恨名人时，这就是原因。你看看那些评论，最热门的往往是最恶毒的。

And that's why the big comments are all mean because for the first time, your voice matters in a country where you've been told that you never will matter. Yeah. So that's why I think the psychologist my personal psychology around why people hate celebrities online. That's like why the biggest all you look at the comments, the biggest ones are the meanest.

对。

Right.

因为终于，终于，终于，终于，你说的话得到了验证。是啊。是啊。经历了这么久，在你感到如此无助之后，在所有人都拒绝你、说你不重要之后，你刻薄的那部分反而得到了认可。真不错。在网上。

Because finally, finally, finally, finally, something you say is validated. Yeah. Yeah. After all this time, after you feeling so helpless, after everyone turning you down and saying that you don't matter, the mean parts of you do Nice. Online.

所以，我不怪人们。当然，他们会憎恨。这似乎是唯一剩下的东西了。

And so, like, I don't blame people. Of course, they're gonna hate. It's like all that there is left.

就是要刻薄，因为它鼓励了一种刻薄的挖苦。

Is to is to be mean because it's incentivizing a mean snarky.

而且你越刻薄，得到的关注就越多。

And the meaner you are, like, the more attention you get.

对。但它并不能让他们突破那个天花板，对吧。评论区的那种天花板。

Right. It doesn't get them, like it doesn't get them past the ceiling of, like, the ceiling Right. Of Of the comment section.

还有一点。它并不能让你超越那些漫画。它不会给你他妈的工作。它不会让你得到尊重。也不会让你交到朋友。

That's the other thing. It doesn't get you past the comics. Like, it's not like it's giving you a fucking job. It's not like it's getting you respect. It's not like it's getting you, like, friends.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这很糟糕，因为每个人——我说的是那些处于这种明星光环最高层的人——他们都在应对这种情况。真的。我只是告诉大家，根据我所看到的，虽然不多，但即使是小瞥一眼，比如在SNL，我们只是——你只是——在不断经历不同的成名案例研究，而这正是共同的主题。真的很糟糕。

It's awful because everybody and I'm saying everybody at at the highest levels of, like, this kind of stardom, that that is, like, what they're dealing with. It is. I'm just telling I I'm just telling everybody, like, from, like, like, from what I've seen, which is not too much, but it's like, oh, shit. Like, even in small glimpses, like, at SNL, it's like we just we just you you just cycle through, like, different case studies and fame, and it's just that's the common thread. And it's really fucked up.

不管怎样，我们应该继续了。

Anyway, we should move on.

嗨。我叫安雅·乌曼索尔。

Hi. My name is Anya Umansor.

我是德鲁·菲利普斯。

And I'm Drew Phillips.

我们主持一档名为《紧急对讲》的播客节目。

And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom.

如果你是犯罪迷且热衷罪案故事，我们这档节目不适合你。

If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

但如果你患有未服药的注意力缺陷多动症

But if you have unmedicated ADHD

天啊，太完美了。

Oh my god. Perfect.

并且想听精神疾病患者聊天——没错，就是精神病学絮语

And wanna hear people with mental illness, Yes. Psychobabble

是的。

Yes.

那么《紧急对讲》就是为你量身定制的播客。打开免费iHeartRadio应用，搜索‘紧急对讲’，立即收听。

Then emergency intercom's the podcast for you. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search emergency intercom, and listen now.

你想知道连环杀手、精神病患者、恋童癖者和抢劫犯的秘密吗？

Do you want to hear the secrets of serial killers, psychopaths, pedophiles, robbers?

他们正潜伏着等待脆弱的目标，伺机袭击毫无防备的人。

They are sitting there waiting for the vulnerable thing. They're waiting for the unprotected.

我是莱斯利医生，法医心理学家。我倡导在穿着粉色的同时提高对潜在危险的安全意识。

I'm Doctor. Leslie, forensic psychologist. I advocate for safety and awareness of predators while wearing pink.

当听说你是法医心理学家时，我心想真无聊。结果我们聊了几个小时，我就觉得这姑娘是我最好的朋友。

When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like snooze. We ended up talking for hours and I was like, this girl is my best friend.

这档播客我会用讽刺、幽默和残酷真相穿透噪音。我不会假装或强求。但你会强求高潮吗？因为那是另一个层面了。就像你不忍看却又无法移开视线的车祸现场。

This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with sarcasm, satire, and hard truths. I'm not gonna fake it and force it. But would you force an orgasm? Because that's like a different layer. The car accident you didn't want to see but couldn't turn away from.

本期节目我将探讨个人安全与自卫技巧，分享日常和高危情境下保护自己与所爱之人的工具、本能反应及策略。收听《刻意惊扰》，可在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台找到我们。

In this episode, I discuss personal safety and self defense, tools, instincts, and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones in everyday life and high risk situations. Listen to Intentionally Disturbing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

现在有请海瑟带来天气预报。

And here's Heather with the weather.

外面天气很好，阳光明媚75华氏度，阴凉处甚至有点凉。现在看看你车内的温度——非常炎热。仅短暂停放后车内已达99度。请勿在办事时将儿童留在后座。

Well, it's beautiful out there, sunny and 75, almost a little chilly in the shade. Now let's get a read on the inside of your car. It is hot. You've only been parked a short time, and it's already 99 degrees in there. Let's not leave children in the back seat while running errands.

他们的体温只需几分钟就会升高，这可能是致命的。

It only takes a few minutes for their body temperatures to rise, and that could be fatal.

车内温度会迅速升高并致命。切勿将儿童留在车内。尼察与广告协会联合提醒。

Cars get hot fast and can be deadly. Never leave a child in a car. A message from Nitza and the ad council.

各位听到那个独家消息了吗？

Everybody Did you hear that exclusive?

我可不...别在那件事上撒谎对吧？劳伦来势汹汹。

I don't if don't lie about that. Right? Lauren came in hot.

从病毒式传播的表演到引发热议的红毯造型，《劳拉与拉罗萨的最新动态》播客是你了解VMA一切的首选。我们将在此为你全面解析。我们在现场。我们在现场。我将为你带来所有头条新闻，剖析幕后发生的一切，并深入探讨人们的讨论焦点。

From viral performances to red carpet looks that had everyone talking, the podcast, The Latest with Laura and LaRosa is your go to for everything VMA. We will be right here breaking it all down. We outside. We outside. We I'm gonna be giving you all the headlines, breaking down everything that is going down behind the scenes, and getting into what the people are saying.

比如，文化圈在热议什么？这正是我们将在《最新动态》中深入探讨的内容。

Like, what is the culture talking about? That's exactly what we'll be getting into here at the latest with

洛恩

Lorne

一切都会让你惊叹。

everything be amazed.

让我们开始吧

Let's get let's get

行动起来。我要做的是

to it. Something to do is I'm

我是那个对万事略知一二的姐妹

the homegirl that knows a little bit about everything and

每个人。

everybody.

想收听这些内容及更多精彩，请通过iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的平台，收听来自Black Effect播客网络的《洛恩·罗萨的最新动态》。

To hear this and more, listen to the latest with Lorne Rosa from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

我们想问你一个对所有嘉宾都会提的问题：Chapel Rome，是什么文化让你确信‘这就是属于我的文化’？基本上，这可以是一部电影、一位音乐人、成长环境，任何对你意义重大、塑造了今日之你的文化元素。

We wanna ask you the question that we ask all of our guests, which is Chapel Rome, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you? So, basically, this can be a movie, a music artist, environmental, something about growing up, just whatever it means to you, the culture that made you you.

我真的很高兴豚鼠在网上有自己的文化，因为我是一个豚鼠女孩。

I'm really glad that guinea pigs have their own culture online because I'm a guinea pig girl.

哇。这个话题是不是从来没人聊过。

Wow. Is this gonna be a never talked about them.

是啊。不，很多人都不知道我这个爱好。

Yeah. No. A lot of people don't know that about me.

豚鼠曾经在《记忆传授人》的SNL节目里出现过。

The guinea pigs were in were on SNL for The Giver.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

在背景里。没错。

In the background. Yeah.

我们当时是体育类动物。

We were a sports animal.

是的。那些豚鼠就在后面。

Yes. The guinea pigs were back there.

聊聊豚鼠文化吧。

Talk about guinea pig culture.

好吧，我就是对它们着迷。我曾经同时养过四只，但后来它们都去世了。它们确实...我对它们很痴迷。我觉得它们是地球上最可爱的动物。

Well, I'm just obsessed with them. I had four at a time when but they passed away. That They do I am obsessed with them. I think they're the cutest animals on earth.

它们更好。

They're better.

我曾为几内亚猪救援组织志愿工作了一年。我总体上很喜欢啮齿动物。是的。而且我喜欢网上的几内亚猪社区，那里很棒。我热爱那个社区。

I worked out of Guinea I volunteered out of of Guinea Pig Rescue for a year. I love rodents in general. Yeah. And I love the Guinea Pig community online is awesome. I love that community.

我认为，认真地说，让我感觉像自己的文化是变装。

I think the culture in, like, all seriousness that made me feel like me was drag.

是的。对。

Yeah. Yes.

一开始，我对变装感到非常不安。我当时就像，哦，我就像那个紧抓珍珠项链的女孩。

At first, I was very freaked out by drag. I was like, oh, I was like the clutch of the pearls girl.

这是来自你成长的地方吗？是的。

Is that coming from where you're come where you come from? Yeah.

是的。我第一次去看变装秀时，我大概17或18岁，那是在Hamburger Mary's。

Yeah. I've never like, the first time I went to a drag show, I was 18, 17 or 18, and it was Hamburger Mary's.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

我当时想，天啊。他们为什么一直在说肛门？太恶心了。就像

And I was like, oh my god. Why do they keep saying anus? That's disgusting. And like

他们就是那样。

They do that.

是啊。我当时就想，我只是觉得那太好玩了，但他们为什么非得把一切都搞得这么低俗？

Yeah. And I was like, I just went I was like, that was so fun, but why do they have to just make everything so dirty?

我感觉怪怪的。就像《洛基恐怖秀》那种风格。

I feel strange. Was like Very Rocky Horror.

对，没错。我当时就想，这特么什么鬼？然后我就彻底迷上了。真的。

Yeah. Yes. And I was like, what the hell? And then I just got addicted to it. Yeah.

所以这花了我很长时间才接受——现在这种文化已经融进我的血液里了。而且意识到当初让我害怕的根源，其实是我生活中完全没有接触过任何同性恋文化。所以...

So and that has taken, like, a long time for me to be like, that is in my actually in my blood now. And, like, to realize all of that, how it freaked me out at first was really just me not having any gay culture at all expressed in my life whatsoever. So, like

嗯。

Yep.

而且那时候我根本不懂那种讽刺幽默。我完全不知道约翰·沃特斯是谁。但看到一群人故意搞得很恶俗，就为了刺激那些假正经的人——这真的太酷了。

And and there was no sarcasm like that. There was no, I like had no idea who John Waters was. Like, and, it was so cool to, like, see a whole community of people being gross on purpose Yeah. For the sake of being for the sake of pearl clutching.

没错。确实。

Yes. Yes.

是的。这种文化让我着迷。我超爱俗气的东西，爱死糟糕的发型，爱死土掉渣的穿搭。

Yes. Like, that is amazing to me. I love tackiness. I fucking love bad hair. I love bad style.

我爱骆驼趾。爱惨了糟糕的染发效果。爱死发根褪色的样子。还有人们门牙被打掉的样子——我他妈爱死这种了。

I love camel toe. Love I love love love a bad dye job. I love roots. Yeah. I love, like I fucking love when people get their teeth knocked out.

我就爱这种狗屎玩意儿。

I love, like, I love that shit.

一次走光。

One nip slip.

对啊。给我来个走光，这是你最起码能做的。嗯哼。就像这样。

Yeah. A nip give me a nip slip. That's the least you could do. Mhmm. Like Yeah.

所以那种刻意低俗的文化，是的，让人感觉无比自由。

So that culture of, like, trashy on purpose Yes. Is so freeing

对我来说。是的。是的。是的。

to me. Yes. Yes. Yes.

我喜欢那种文化，还有豚鼠文化，而且我也很感谢那两个女孩——虽然不记得名字了——她们也和我一样相信仙女的存在。哦，我超爱仙女文化。我觉得她们可能是真实存在的。我不确定，但我就是要这么说。

I love that and the guinea pig culture, and I also really appreciate the two girls, don't remember the names, who also believed in fairies with me. Oh. I love the fairy culture. I think that they're real, maybe. I don't I'm just gonna say that.

我特别欣赏仙女文化，因为仙女让我快乐，虽然我对所有人都撒谎说我见过她们。

And I really appreciate the fairy culture because fairies make me happy, and I lied to everyone that I saw them.

你就是个仙女变装皇后豚鼠。谢谢。你知道吗？是的，你早就知道了。

You are a fairy drag queen guinea pig. Thank you. Did you know that? Yeah. And you've known that.

你心知肚明。你心知肚明。内心深处你一直都知道。

You knew it. You knew it. You've always known it deep down.

我喜欢你，懂吗？

I like you know?

踩油门加速吧。

Pedal it up.

我也很喜欢那种真正的觉醒感，我是在芭比电影陪伴下长大的。比如那些疯狂的

I love the also the there's been a a real awakening, which I grew up on the Barbie movies. Like, the crazy

疯狂的动漫版。

The crazy anime one.

前几天我看到一个芭比动物系列的混剪视频，嗯哼。内容简直疯狂到不行。可以说，是芭比塑造了我。

I saw a compilation the other day of the Barbie animals Uh-huh. Of the how fucking crazy it was. And, like, Barbie raised me.

是啊。不过芭比里的仙子元素可是重头戏。

Yeah. I But fairies in Barbie is a huge thing.

《芭比之梦幻仙境》，比比就是从那里来的。比比本质上就是一只会飞的豚鼠。所以

Barbie Fairytopia, and that is where Bibble came from. And Bibble is basically a flying guinea pig. So

对。你觉得

Yeah. Do you feel like

当你写作、发挥创意时，会有仙子造访吗？某种程度上你是在连通仙子吗？墙里住着仙子吗？

the fairies visit you when you're writing, when you're being creative? Are you channeling the fairies in a way? Are the fairies in the walls?

是啊。你的灵感缪斯是什么样的？

Yeah. What are your muses like?

我觉得仙子就是你的缪斯。

Like, I think the fairies are your muse.

通常我会说是的，仙子会来找我。但我觉得，我现在写作的方式是...我会把那些特别糟心的事拿来，然后把它变得...我也不知道。就像地铁那首歌，歌词通常总是更阴暗的。

I usually I would say yes. Fairies visit me. But I think, like, the way I write now is from, like, I take things that are really fucked up and then make it really, like I I don't know. Like, it's the same with, the subway. The the lyrics are usually always darker.

嗯，没错。

Mhmm. Right.

然后它们变得非常非常暗，接着又变亮。你你

And they become, like, very, very dark, and then they become, like, light. You you

做个提亮处理。

do a brightening draft.

对，对，对。所以总是先厚重阴暗，然后你知道的，仙女们会来撒她们的仙尘。接着就突然

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's always, like, heavy, dark, and then, you know, then the fairies come and twinkle their fairy dust. Then it's like

是啊。

Yeah.

突然间就能上电台了。对，抱歉，我已经举了大概三个文化例子。

Made all of a sudden can actually be on the radio. Yeah. Sorry. I've given, like, three cultures.

不，不，不，它们都

No. No. No. They're all

很棒因为它们在互相

so good because they're sharing with

分享。

each other.

你们需要继续分享。

You need to keep sharing.

我想回到豚鼠的话题，今天的主题句。对。因为我小时候养过仓鼠。嗯。那可能是我经历过最 traumatizing 的事情之一。

I wanna return to guinea pigs, the sentence of the day. Yeah. Because I had hamsters when I was little. Yeah. And one of the most traumatic things I think I've ever been through.

我跟你说

I tell

每个故事都是这样。

you this. Every story.

它们叫奇普和戴尔。有天我爸突然说：我得和你谈谈。我一脸懵。结果他说：我们不再有奇普和戴尔了。我更懵了。

They were named Chip and Dale. And one day, my dad said, I have to talk to you. And I was like, what? And then he basically was like, we don't have Chip and Dale anymore. And I was like, what?

它们互相啃食了，教堂。就是这样。它们活生生吃掉了对方。不知道是激情爆发还是同性争斗。

They had eaten each other, Chapel. That's what happened. They had eaten each other alive. I don't know if it was throws of passion. I don't know if they had a gay fight.

它们同时啃食对方。

They ate each other at the same time.

奇普和戴尔同归于尽了。那才是真正的双赢。

Chip and Dale killed each other. It was then the main win.

那是斗鱼。

That's beta fish.

什么？斗鱼它们...它们会互相攻击致死。

What what is that? Beta fish they they they fight each other. They kill each other.

当时我无法理解。现在长大了懂得人性和动物本性，有点明白了。它们被长期关在一起。

It couldn't compute. And now getting older and knowing human nature and animal nature, I sort of get it. Like, they were cooped up together for a long time.

与神同在

With god

知道男孩们吗？

knows boys?

他们是奇普和戴尔。

They were Chip and Dale.

这很难。男孩们有领地意识。

That's hard. Boys boys are territorial.

他们很凶残。

They're vicious.

确实如此。

It's true.

但他们争夺的是什么领地？比如空间吗？

But what were they territorial over? Like, the space?

他们只是...知道吗？关于豚鼠的一个有趣事实。

They just you know what? Fun fact about guinea pigs.

是的，先生。

Yes, sir.

通常情况下，大多数时候你不能把超过两只放在一起，而且如果两只公豚鼠能正确建立感情就很幸运了。你得让它们正确建立感情，否则它们真的会试图杀死对方。

Can't normally, most of the time, you can't have two more than two together, and, like, you're lucky if they bond correctly as two boys. Like, you have to, like, bond them correctly or else they will fucking, like, try to kill each other.

哇。我

Wow. I

我是说它们就是，好像，根本没意识到它们没有被正确配对。是啊。或者它们是仓鼠。我不清楚。对。

mean they just, like, did not get they were just not bonded correctly Yeah. Or they were they're a hamster. I don't know. Yeah.

你养过同性恋的那种吗？

Did you did you have gay ones?

我只养过母的。母的相处得特别好，比如，好几只母的一起。

I only had girls. Girls do really well with, like, multiple girls.

天啊。不总是这样吗？

Oh god. Isn't that always the case?

没关系。

It is okay.

总是这样的。

It always is the case.

是啊。你想不想，比如，养一只

Yeah. Do do you wanna, like, have one

现在，比如，带在身边？你有吗？

now to, like, have around with you? Do you have?

我真希望我有——它们其实，天竺鼠真的不太适合小孩养。比起猫狗，照顾它们要麻烦得多。

I wish I had they're what is so, like guinea pigs are not really children's pets. Like, they're way more difficult to take care of than a dog or a cat.

真的吗？是的。怎么说？

Really? Yes. How so?

因为你不能随便倒一碗食物给它们。它们需要特定种类的干草，需要维生素C，需要特定种类的水果蔬菜。你得给它们补充剂，还得清理笼子。

Because you can't just, like, pour them a bowl of food. Like, they need a specific type of hay. They need vitamin c. Like, they need a specific type of fruits and vegetables. Like, you have to give them supplements, and you also, like, have to clean their cage.

对。它们只能用特定类型的垫料。你得带它们运动，不能让它们乱跑。它们又不会自己上厕所。

Yeah. They can only have certain types of bedding. You have to exercise them. You can't just let them wander around. Like, they're not potty trained.

它们需要清洁，还要泡泡浴。要修剪指甲。真的不简单。真的吗？

They have to be cleaned and, like, they need bubble baths. They need their nails trimmed. It's, like, not easy. Really?

不。听起来非常

No. It sounds very

严肃。很多人来救助站时说'这是我的第一只宠物，我九岁'。我觉得这就是为什么这么多人会有心理阴影——因为这些宠物其实非常难

serious. Many people come to the rescue. We're like, this is my first pet. I'm nine. And I'm like And I think that's why so many people have so many traumatic stories because they're actually such difficult

养。可能我们之前不知道，因为从社会学角度想，毕竟它们会互相残杀。

pets to have. And maybe I maybe we just didn't know that because I'm imagining it's the same, like, sociologically, I guess. Mean, because they killed each other.

没错。

Right.

但每个人都有关于仓鼠、豚鼠或沙鼠的疯狂故事。

But everyone has a crazy hamster, guinea pig, or gerbil story.

沙鼠。

Gerbils.

我能理解这些啮齿动物。

I can relate to the rodents.

我最初就明白了。鲍文·杨？

I I get originally. Bowen Yang?

我是只啮齿动物。不，你不是的，姑娘。是的。好吧，行吧。

I'm a rodent. No. You're not, girl. Yes. Well, okay.

我是

I'm a

很多保养工作。我我我很小。

lot of maintenance. I'm I'm I'm little.

你需要维生素C。

You need your vitamin C.

我需要我的维生素C。

I need my vitamin C.

我要

I'm gonna

你的颗粒饲料。吃你的干草。

your pellets. Do your hay.

亲爱的，我需要我的干草。

I need my hay, hon.

你懂我意思吗？能告诉你吗，我缺乏维生素D？嗯哼。好吧。那你呢？

You know what I mean? Can I tell you, I'm vitamin D deficient? Uh-huh. Okay. And I'm not are you?

嗯。那你是怎么服用维生素D胶囊的？我必须吃。

Mhmm. So how do you take, like, a vitamin D capsule? I must.

你应该吃。是的。

You should. Yeah.

但有时候出去晒太阳理论上更好，可实际上又会晒伤。

But it's like and and sometimes getting out there in the sun is like you know, it's better in theory, but then you get sunburned.

能问你个问题吗？说到太阳和纽约，关于“巡航”行为？对。前几天有个男同朋友问我，为什么女同不搞“巡航”？

Can I ask you? Yeah. Why do you speaking of the sun and New York, cruising? Yeah. In I this is like someone asked me this, like, a gay a gay guy friend asked me the other day of, like, why don't lesbians cruise?

我想知道你的看法。

And I wanna know what you think.

我是这么想的。因为男同性恋的性更交易化、更投射化。其实挺有意思——有次我和约会对象第一次约会，他说‘我不常约炮，因为觉得太多心理投射，我不需要这个’。

This is what I think. I think because gay sex is a lot more transactional and a lot more projection y. So it's like actually, it's funny. Like, this this person that I was sleeping with, we went on our first date, and he goes, yeah. I don't hook up a lot because I feel that it's a lot to do with, like, projection, and I don't really need that.

就像我们之前聊的，性本质是两个人的交融。我发现当你们有好的眼神交流或轻松对话时——所以人们总说打情骂俏很重要——这种互动会直接转化到性上。这人追求的就是这个，而我更...我从没真正尝试过‘巡航’或随机约炮。

Like, talking about what we were talking about earlier about how, like, sex actually is, like, two people coming together, and you usually can I find this too? It's like when you have, like, good eye contact with someone or, like, the conversation is easy, that's why people talk about, like, the banter. Mhmm. And it, like, just directly translates because that's what this person was looking for and is looking for. And I think even more me and I've never really done, like, the cruisy thing and the the the, like, random hookup thing.

当然我经历过、实验过，但始终不适应这种来去匆匆的关系。很多人可以，这很棒。但我觉得这和男同群体...嗯...

Like, of course, I've done. I've I've I've experienced it and, like, experimented. But, like, I never felt comfortable going in and out of those situations. A lot of people do, and, like, that's great. But I think it has to do with just what gay guys Mhmm.

对性的需求和期待有关，本质上就是交易行为。

Are looking for and needing out of sex, and it's just transactional.

是的。它可以存在于集市中，也可以存在于澡堂或公园这样的地方。

Yeah. It can live in a marketplace. It can live in, like, a bathhouse or a park.

它可以

It can

存在只要有它的空间。而概括来说，我觉得在女同性恋群体中，性并不一定有一个明确的终点。它是情感性的，更像是

live there's a space for it. Whereas, like, just to generalize, I feel like among lesbians, it's, like, it's very there's no, like, endpoint to sex necessarily. It's it's emotional. It's like

对。它是基于成就的。

Yeah. It's it's It's achievement based.

它不是基于成就的。你在投入时间、精力和对彼此的关怀，这种方式不会仅仅浓缩为一次性互动。是的，这就是我们的理论。

It's not achievement based. There's a you're you're investing time and energy and care for each other in a way that, like, is not gonna be condensed until, like, a sexual interaction. Yeah. Yeah. That's our theory.

嗯，这样说对吗？

Yeah. Does that sound right?

我不知道。想象你当时说，好吧，

I don't know. I Imagine you were like, well, the

答案是。

answer is.

不，我不知道。测验。我不知道答案。我只是因为太天真，去了中央公园，然后觉得每个人都在享受阳光。

No. I don't know. Quiz. I don't know the answer. I've just been because I was naive, and I went to Central Park, and I was like, everybody is loving the sun.

是啊，大家都穿着泳裤在外面。

Yeah. Like, everyone is just out in their speedos.

是啊是啊不。我是说，那可是个大试镜。

Yeah. Yeah. No. Mean, it was the big audition.

对。我当时就觉得，他们好像有人说他们在巡航。

Yeah. And I was like, they're like someone was like, they're cruising.

快停下。我当时就...

Just stop. And I was like

我就想，什么？巡航什么？所以我就一直在问，比如关于巡航的事，还有为什么人们觉得这在女同文化里不那么常见。我肯定在某种程度上是存在的，只是我不知道罢了。

I was like, what? Cruising what? And so and I was like, so I've just been asking, like, take on cruising and also why people think that it's not in the lesbian culture as much. I'm sure it is in some capacity that I just don't know about. Yeah.

我完全不在这个圈子里，但我真的很好奇大家的看法，尤其是在纽约。因为可能在旧金山会更普遍些，但在洛杉矶我就不太了解了。

I'm very out of the loop, but I am just I'm very curious about it, what people's takes are, especially in New York. Yeah. Because it's like, maybe it is in San Francisco more too, but I don't really know about it in LA.

洛杉矶嘛，我觉得...洛杉矶挺怪的，因为它是这方面的王者。

LA, I think well, LA is LA is weird because it's it's the king of this.

不停回头看。

Looking over your shoulder.

永无止境。但你知道本质是什么吗？与其说是巡航，不如说是持续的比较，总在琢磨能不能找到更好的。再次声明，我不是要贬低整座城市——我爱洛杉矶——但就约会而言，确实困难得多。

It's constant. And but you know what it is? It's like it's not even cruising as much as it more is just like constant comparison and, like, wondering how if you can do better. That's kind of and it's not to again, I hate dragging a whole city because I love LA and, like but I have found with dating, it is a lot harder. Oh, it's a lot harder.

人们都说我来纽约是因为在洛杉矶约会太难了。

People say that that I came to New York because LA is, like, really hard to date in.

特别是当你...比如我现在刚满35岁，开始寻找可能成为下一段稳定关系的对象。

Especially when, like, you're not like, because now I'm I just turned 35. It's like I'm kind of looking now for something that could be my next, like, relationship.

是啊。

Yeah.

我理解这个。我是说，我懂。我...随便吧。但随着年龄增长，当你寻找其他东西时，这可能会有点打击士气。所以最好完全脱离那个环境，这就是我搬到纽约的原因。

And I understand this. Like, I get it. I I whatever. But it can be a little demoralizing as you get older and are looking for something else. So better to just take yourself out of the environment entirely, which is why I moved to New York.

你得

You gotta

搬回来。而且纽约那边，我们在修道院可没那么多手机被偷的破事。

move back. Also, New York, we don't have our fucking phones stolen as much at the Abbey.

等等。这是个问题。你听说过这事吗？不。没有。

Wait. That this is a thing. Did you have you heard about this? No. No.

她...她...你听说发生什么了吗？你说的是粉红小马俱乐部？

She she You hear what happened? You said the Pink Pony Club?

你提过这事。

You talked about it.

等等。我们...是你在做这事吗？不是。

Wait. We we Is it you doing it? No.

我们所有人的手机都被偷过。

We've all had our phones stolen.

记得吗，我去过...你没有。我手机从没被偷过。我去过...有吗？

Remember, I went to You'd no. I've never had my phone stolen. I went have?

我的手机在西厅被偷了。

I've had my phone stolen in West Hall.

不是在修道院那边，但我有三个朋友同一天晚上手机都被偷了。是的，在西厅。

Not at the not at the Abbey, but I've had three friends in one night have their phone stolen Yes. In West

你知道他们怎么说吗？他们的理论是说那是一群矮个子女人干的，因为她们可以轻易得手——不是说她们专门针对女性，但那是他们的理论。哦，她们

And you know what they were saying? It was it was the the theory was that it was a bunch of short women doing it because they could just not that they're picking on the women, but that was the theory. Oh, they

她们就是针对我。

were they were picking on me.

抱歉，为什么不是矮个子男人？句号。这是矮个子男人说的。

I'm sorry. Why not short guys? Period. The short guys said that.

是啊。所有矮个子男人都

Yeah. All the short guys are

觉得是矮个子女人干的。

like, it's the short women.

他们说是矮个子女人。但这情况在洛杉矶一度像流行病一样蔓延。

It was the short women they said. But they were but it was it became, like, epidemic there for a while in LA.

太疯狂了。我朋友刚在格罗夫购物中心手机被偷。

It's crazy. It's like I don't know. My friend just got his phone stolen at The Grove.

在格罗夫购物中心。

At The Grove.

外面现在简直疯了。

It's crazy out there right now.

The Grove的巴诺书店。

The Barnes and Noble at The Grove.

你在哪儿？

Where are you at?

在Aloe。

At the Aloe.

天啊。是Aloe吗？不是a l o？

Oh my god. Is it Aloe? It not a l o?

a l o。哦，我完全不知道。我我我念错了。

A l o. Oh, I have no idea. I'm I'm I'm butchering it.

给我们寄衣服来，也许我们就能搞清楚了。不。不过好吧。不。The Grove。

Send us clothes, and maybe we'll figure it out. No. But yeah. No. The Grove.

哇。想象在The Grove闲逛。发生了。真的发生了。

Wow. Imagine cruising at The Grove. It happened. Happened.

有一次

One time

我在The Grove看到了我最喜欢的色情明星。我该说是谁吗？好吧。他叫Chris Damned。他超棒的。

I saw my favorite porn star at The Grove. Should I say who it is? Yes. His name is Chris Damned. He's great.

我看到克里斯·达姆德了？

And I saw Chris Damned?

是啊，挺有趣的。

Yeah. Fun.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

但他并不像恶魔那样，反而相当讨人喜欢。

But he's not, like, demonic. He's, like, quite lovely.

我爱死这个了。

I love it.

顺便说一句，很多人都是我的最爱。我没有唯一的最爱。那时候看到他出现在The Grove，我简直惊呆了。是啊，我当时就想，哇。

But and by the way, a lot of people are my favorites. And I don't have one favorite. At the time, he was I was gagged because there he was at The Grove. Yeah. I was like, wow.

在哪？一颗明星。

Where? A star.

一颗明星。

A star.

嗨，我叫安雅·乌曼索。

Hi. My name is Anya Umansor.

我是德鲁·菲利普斯。

And I'm Drew Phillips.

我们运营一档名为《紧急对讲》的播客节目。

And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom.

如果你是犯罪迷且热衷罪案故事，那我们这档播客不适合你。

If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

但如果你患有未经治疗的注意力缺陷多动症

But if you have unmedicated ADHD

天啊，太完美了。

Oh my god. Perfect.

想听精神疾病患者的心声？是的。心理呓语？没错。那么《紧急对讲》就是你的菜。打开免费iHeartRadio应用，搜索紧急对讲，立即收听。

And wanna hear people with mental illness, Yes. Psychobabble Yes. Then emergency intercom's the podcast for you. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search emergency intercom, and listen now.

你想知道连环杀手、精神病患者、恋童癖和抢劫犯的秘密吗？

Do you want to hear the secrets of serial killers, psychopaths, pedophiles, robbers?

他们正潜伏着等待脆弱的目标，伺机对毫无防备的人下手。

They are sitting there waiting for the vulnerable thing. They're waiting for the unprotected.

我是莱斯利博士，法医心理学家。我身穿粉色倡导安全意识和防范掠食者。

I'm Doctor. Leslie, forensic psychologist. I advocate for safety and awareness of predators while wearing pink.

当听说你是法医心理学家时，我觉得无聊透顶。结果我们聊了数小时，我心想这姑娘简直是我挚友。

When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like snooze. We ended up talking for hours and I was like, this girl is my best friend.

在这档播客里，我将用讽刺、荒诞和残酷真相穿透喧嚣。我不会虚伪做作。你会强装高潮吗？那可是另一回事。就像那场你不忍看又忍不住回头的车祸。

This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with sarcasm, satire, and hard truths. I'm not gonna fake it and force it. Would you force an orgasm? Because that's like a different layer. The car accident you didn't want to see but couldn't turn away from.

在本期节目中，我将探讨个人安全与自卫技巧、工具使用、本能反应，以及如何在日常生活和高风险情境中保护自己和所爱之人。请在iHeart Radio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听《刻意惊扰》。

In this episode, I discuss personal safety and self defense, tools, instincts, strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones in everyday life and high risk situations. Listen to Intentionally Disturbing on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

现在有请希瑟带来天气播报。

And here's Heather with the weather.

外面天气宜人，阳光明媚，75华氏度（约24摄氏度），树荫下甚至有点凉意。现在来看看你车内的温度——简直像个烤箱。即便只短暂停放，车内温度已高达99华氏度（约37摄氏度）。请勿在办事时将儿童留在后座。

Well, it's beautiful out there, sunny and 75, almost a little chilly in the shade. Now let's get a read on the inside of your car. It is hot. You've only been parked a short time, and it's already 99 degrees in there. Let's not leave children in the back seat while running errands.

只需几分钟他们的体温就会急剧上升，这可能是致命的。

It only takes a few minutes for their body temperatures to rise, and that could be fatal.

车辆会迅速升温并致命。切勿将儿童单独留在车内。尼察与广告委员会联合提醒。

Cars get hot fast and can be deadly. Never leave a child in a car. A message from Nitza and the ad council.

大家听到了吗？我不确定

Everybody Did you hear that? I don't know

如果你不在这件事上撒谎对吧？劳伦进来了。

if you don't lie about that. Right? Lauren came in.

大家好！从病毒式传播的表演到引发热议的红毯造型，《劳拉与罗莎的最新动态》播客是你获取VMA全资讯的首选。我们将在此为你解析所有亮点。我们就在现场。我们就在现场。

Hi. From viral performances to red carpet looks that had everyone talking, podcast, the latest with Laura and La Rosa is your go to for everything VMA. We will be right here breaking it all down. We outside. We outside.

我将为大家带来所有头条新闻，揭秘幕后发生的每件事，并深入探讨大众热议话题——文化焦点究竟是什么？这正是我们《劳恩与罗莎的最新动态》要探讨的内容。每期都令人惊叹。

We I'm gonna be giving you all the headlines, breaking down everything that is going down behind the scenes, and getting into what the people are saying. Like, what is the culture talking about? That's exactly what we'll be getting into here at the latest with Lorne and Rosa. Everything be amazed.

让我们...让我们...

Let's get let's get

说到这个。我是个万事通女孩，什么都懂一点，

to it. I'm homegirl that knows a little bit about everything and

也认识所有人。

everybody.

想收听本期及更多内容，请通过iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或你获取播客的任何平台，收听Black Effect播客网络最新一期Lorne the Rosa的节目。

To hear this and more, listen to the latest with Lorne the Rosa from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

我觉得是时候了。

I think it's time.

天啊。可能真是时候了。就是现在，布拉德。我不...

Oh my god. It might be time. It's time, Brad. I don't

这么认为，亲爱的。

think so, honey.

我不这么认为，亲爱的。而且我...我我我之前一直在纠结要怎么做。我想我会...

I don't think so, honey. And I, like, I I I was sort of going back and forth about what I was gonna do. I guess I'll do

这样吧。好吧。

this. Okay.

因为我们上线前还聊了咖啡因的话题。对。好吧。那我就...这就是我们的《我不这么认为，亲爱的》环节。在这个一分钟的单元里，我们会用六十秒——仔细想想也就是一分钟——来犀利点评某个文化现象。

Because we also had a caffeine conversation before getting on. Yeah. Okay. I'll do So this is I don't think so, honey. It's our one minute segment where we take sixty seconds, aka one minute, if you really think about it, to rip something apart in culture.

现在开始。

And here we go.

我是马特·罗杰斯。亲爱的，我不这么认为。那

This is Matt Rogers. Don't think so, honey. That

咖啡会让你有咖啡口气。这太糟了。我们得想办法解决。比如，早上醒来我就变成那种睁眼就需要咖啡因的人。亲爱的，我觉得短期内这习惯改不了了。

coffee gives you coffee breath. That sucks. We need to figure it out. Like, actually wake up in the morning and I'm become that person where I open my eyes and I need caffeine. I don't think so, honey, that it's gonna change anytime soon.

我们的嘉宾戒了咖啡因，这让我很受启发。但这只是我另一个奇怪的瘾。现在我早上醒来...而且我还和咖啡店员工建立了交情。她们都是我的姐妹。

Our guest is off caffeine, and I feel like I'm inspired by that. But it's just another one of my strange addictions. I now wake up in the morning. I and also now I have relationships at the coffee shops. Those are my girls.

你不能小看洛杉矶，我在纽约也有我的姐妹们。就在刚才我突然意识到，我要离开洛杉矶的公寓了，也要离开我的姐妹们了。唉，这真让人难受。

You can't down LA, and I have my girls in New York. And I just realized in this moment, I'm leaving my apartment in LA, and I'm leaving my girls. Aw. That's really hard.

她们真的很贴心。

They're really sweet.

就像我在那儿时一样贴心。费尔南达，她也超爱拉娜·德雷。

To what I was there. So sweet. Fernanda. She also stans Lana Del Rey.

她超爱拉娜。

She loves Lana.

我们真的...比如我说要去科切拉音乐节时，她马上就说'我爱拉娜'。

And we and and, like, literally, when I said I was going to Coachella, she goes, I love Lana.

她就这样。秒回。

She did this. Seconds.

所以她是个传奇。但听着，咖啡的问题是会导致口臭，对接吻、说话、呼吸等等都很不好。我就想找到既能摄入咖啡因又不会有口气的方法。这就是问题所在。

And so she's an icon. But listen. The thing about coffee is it gives you coffee breath, which is so bad for kissing, speaking, breathing, etcetera, and more. And I just wanna figure out a way to get my fix of caffeine and not have coffee breath, I guess. Here it is.

健怡可乐、Celsius之类的，但我最爱咖啡。我不这么认为，亲爱的。

Diet Coke, Celsius, etcetera, but I love coffee. I don't think so, honey.

时间到一分钟了。

That's one minute.

就像，我现在处于这样一个阶段

Like, I'm now at the place where

我觉得你必须得彻底戒掉它，直接断掉。

you get you just gotta you just gotta go cold turkey on it, I think.

我也这么想，但现在它已经深深融入我的生活，起床第一件事就是立刻来杯冷萃咖啡

I think so, but it's like now it's, like, so built into my life getting a cold brew right away

醒来后的首要之事。

first thing when you wake up.

我在圣诞假期期间戒掉了。

I quit over Christmas break.

是因为你当时感觉

And was it just because, like, you were getting

没错。我当时简直要疯了。是的。我已经过度焦虑了，所以我想，如果真想冷静下来，就得远离所有兴奋剂。

Yeah. I was just, like, going crazy. Yeah. I was, like, already too anxious, and so, like, I was like, if I want to actually calm down Yeah. I have to take every stimulant away.

所有兴奋剂。

Every stimulant.

等等，你抽大麻吗？

So wait. Do you smoke weed?

现在没抽。

Not right now.

现在没抽？好吧好吧。所以你现在是处于一种，呃，完全没碰任何东西的状态？很好。

Not right now? Yeah. Yeah. So, like, basically, are you in a place right now of, like, there's nothing going in? Good.

我倒是希望。

I I wish.

我得打个星号说明——其实我超想嗑药的，就是...

Let me say it as as an asterisk. I want a fuck ton of drugs, though. Like

懂，懂。我现在也在用，但不是为了消遣。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm on, like But it's not recreational.

不，现在没有。

No. Not right now. No.

SSRI女王？是吧。

SSRI queen? Yeah.

对啊，拜托。

Yeah. Come on.

我...嗯。我还有失眠症。再加上我是双相情感障碍，所以如果你不睡觉又吸大麻的话，真的会很糟糕。

I'm yeah. I've got my I also have insomnia. So, like and I'm bipolar. So it's, like, really hard if you are, like, not sleeping and doing weed. Yeah.

嗯。是是鸡尾酒。鸡尾酒。但我确实喜欢可食用的。我确实喜欢虾。

Mhmm. It's it's The cocktail. The cocktail. But I do love an edible. I do love shrimps.

谢谢，Silo，给我寄了一盒。我不知道你是怎么合法做到的。

Thank you, Silo, for sending me a box. I don't know how you did that legally.

嘿，Silo。我们是Matt和Bowen，我们会喜欢的。操。知道。下次吧。

Hey, Silo. We're Matt and Bowen, and we will love that. Fuck. Know. Next time.

我来了。

I'm coming.

但我同意你的看法。这真的很难。连续四周戒掉咖啡因很糟糕。嗯，因为我觉得你没事。

But I agree with you. It's really hard. It quitting caffeine sucks for four weeks straight. Well, because I think you're okay.

我们没有意识到的是它是一种毒品。完全。当然。是毒品。就像我现在实际上在想，比如那些NAA之类的人。

What we're not reckoning with is it is a drug. Totally. Of course. Is drug. Like and I I now I actually wondered about that, like, people that are NAA and stuff.

比如，我想知道与咖啡因的关系是什么。

Like, I wonder what the relationship is with caffeine.

我相信外面有支持小组可以帮你。

I'm sure there's a support group out there for you.

太疯狂了。

That's wild.

我想我们可以我们可以一起做。

I think we can we can let's do it together.