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当客户来找您时，阻碍他们成为成功领导者的最大差距是什么？
When clients come to you, what is the biggest gap they have that is keeping them from being successful as leaders?
大多数领导者，尤其是技术领导者，都认为自己必须掌握所有答案。
Most leaders, especially technical leaders, assume they have to have all the answers.
人们之所以能晋升，是因为他们可靠、值得信赖，是房间里最聪明的人。
People have climbed the ladder because they've been dependable, reliable, the smartest person in the room.
但优秀的领导者明白，当你总是试图提供建议和答案时，实际上并没有让团队具备解决难题的能力。
But great leaders know that when you try to advise and have the answer all the time, you're not actually equipping your team to go solve the hard problems.
你正在培养团队把所有
You're training your team to come to you with all
难题都推给你。
of the hard problems.
艰难的对话确实很困难。
Difficult conversations are difficult.
我们该如何帮助人们降低这种难度呢？
How do we help people make them less difficult?
我们在科技行业工作。
We operate in tech.
就像，我们应该把全部的自己、所有的时间和精力都投入到这项事业中，而且这完全是合乎逻辑的。
Like, we're supposed to give all of ourselves, all of our time, all of our energy to this endeavor, and it's purely logical.
这根本不是事实。
That's not at all true.
这完全是情感驱动的。
It's completely emotional.
专业人士也有感情。
Professionals have feelings.
当人们想要发生冲突时，他们进来时就已经准备好证明自己的观点。
People, when they wanna have a conflict, they come in ready to prove their point.
有一种错误的观点认为，目标是要让对方相信他们做错了。
There's a misguided view that the goal is to convince the other person that what they're doing is wrong.
实际上，任何冲突的目标都是要达成相互理解。
Actually, the goal of any conflict is to create mutual understanding.
谈谈你在帮助科技行业领导者避免职业倦怠方面的经验。
Talk about what you've learned about helping leaders in tech avoid burnout.
当人们发挥天赋与优势时，他们会更有能量。
When people are in their gifts and their strengths, they have more energy.
当我们从事天生擅长的事情时，都会更有干劲。
We all have more energy when we're operating from the things we naturally are good at.
没有人有义务帮你发挥所长。
It's no one else's job to help you live in your gifts.
我注意到在大公司里，员工常因管理层未能让工作更有趣而感到恼火。
What I noticed in big companies is people are often annoyed or frustrated with their management for not making their job more interesting.
不。
No.
管理者的职责是帮助你在受聘岗位上发挥效能。
Your manager's job is to help you perform in the job you were hired to do.
规划职业生涯是你自己的责任。
It's your job to navigate your career.
这种力量在于它能让你生活得更加美好。
The power of this is this makes your life so much better.
亲爱的，我们试试看吧。
Honey, let's try it.
所以我想让你告诉我一个你正在面临的挑战或困难。
So I want you to tell me a challenge, something that you're struggling with.
这些天我主要面临的挑战是——今天我的嘉宾是瑞秋·洛克特，一位高管教练，曾任Pinterest和Stripe的人力资源主管多年。
The main thing I struggle with these days is just Today, my guest is Rachel Lockett, an executive coach and former longtime HR leader at Pinterest and at Stripe.
她为科技公司的CEO、创始人和领导者提供两方面指导：情绪与情商，以及韧性、勇气；同时帮助他们制定愿景战略、优化优先级，并建立值得信赖且负责的团队。
She works with CEOs and founders and leaders at tech companies on both ways that they are emotional and positive intelligence, resilience, and courage and what they do, setting vision and strategy, prioritizing, and building trusted and accountable teams.
多年来我从其他播客嘉宾口中多次听闻她的名字，这次对话充满力量。
She's someone I've heard a lot about over the years from other podcast guests, and this conversation is powerful.
内容满载能让你成为更优秀领导者和更好个人的建议、技巧与框架。
It's jam packed with advice and tips and frameworks that'll make you a better leader and also a better person.
我们甚至进行了几场现场辅导环节来展示瑞秋的一些方法。
We even do a couple live coaching sessions to demonstrate some of Rachel's approaches.
正如你将看到的，在这次对话中我有许多顿悟时刻。
And as you'll see, I had a number of epiphanies during this conversation.
如果你喜欢这个播客，别忘了在你喜欢的播客应用或YouTube上订阅关注。
If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube.
这对我们帮助巨大。
It helps tremendously.
如果你成为我通讯的年费订阅用户，你将免费获得一整年大量优质产品使用权，包括dev、lovable、replete、bolt in it、linear superhuman descriptless、perform gamma perplexity、warp granola magic patterns、raycast、j p r d mobbin以及stripe atlas。
And if you become an annual subscriber of my newsletter, you get a year free of a ton of incredible products, including dev and lovable, replete, bolt in it, and linear superhuman descriptless, perform gamma perplexity, warp granola magic patterns, raycast, j p r d mobbin, and stripe atlas.
请访问lenny'snewsletter.com并点击product pass。
Head on over to lenny'snewsletter.com and click product pass.
说完这些，在赞助商简短插播后，我将为你带来与Rachel Lockett的对话。
With that, I bring you Rachel Lockett after a short word from our sponsors.
1.3%。
1.3%.
这是个很小的数字，但在恰当的语境下却意义非凡。
It's a small number, but in the right context, it's a powerful one.
Stripe去年处理的交易额略超1.4万亿美元。
Stripe processed just over $1,400,000,000,000 last year.
这个数字约占全球GDP的1.3%。
That figure works out to be about 1.3% of global GDP.
数额很大，但也仅仅是1.3%。
It's a lot, but it's also just 1.3.
Stripe为全球众多高速增长的企业处理大规模复杂交易，包括《福布斯》AI 50强中的78%企业，以及超过半数的《财富》100强企业。
Stripe handles the massive scale and complexity of many of the world's fastest growing enterprises, including 78% of the Forbes AI 50 and more than half of the Fortune 100.
我邀请过更多Stripe高管参与这档播客节目，这绝非偶然。
There's a reason I've had more leaders from Stripe on this podcast than any other company.
他们深谙如何打造可扩展且深受用户喜爱的优秀产品。
They know how to build great products that scale and that people love.
Stripe的业务远不止支付领域。
Stripe is also a lot more than just payments.
他们还拥有行业领先的计费解决方案，以及专为提高结账转化率而优化的高效结账体验。
They've also got a category leading billing solution and a highly optimized checkout experience built specifically to increase your checkout conversion.
Atlassian、Figma和Urban等企业使用Stripe创建完全品牌化和定制化的结账页面，支持超过125种全球支付方式。
Enterprises like Atlassian, Figma, and Urban use Stripe to create fully branded and customized checkout pages with access to more than 125 global payment methods.
加入Salesforce、OpenAI和百事等行业领袖的行列，使用Stripe实现更快增长并提升GDP。
Join the ranks of industry leaders like Salesforce, OpenAI, and Pepsi that are using Stripe to grow faster and grow GDP.
了解Stripe如何助力您的业务增长，请访问stripe.com。
Learn how Stripe can help your business grow at stripe.com.
我和播客嘉宾都热衷于 热衷于探讨工艺、品味、自主权和产品市场契合度。
My podcast guest and I love talking about craft and taste and agency and product market fit.
你知道我们最不愿意讨论什么吗？
You know what we don't love talking about?
SOC2认证。
SOC two.
这就是Vanta的用武之地。
That's where Vanta comes in.
Vanta帮助各种规模的企业快速实现合规并持续保持，依托行业领先的AI技术、自动化流程和持续监控体系。
Vanta helps companies of all sizes get compliant fast and stay that way industry leading AI, automation, and continuous monitoring.
无论你是初创公司首次应对SOC2或ISO27001认证，还是企业处理供应商风险，Vanta的信任管理平台都能让流程更快捷、更轻松且更具扩展性。
Whether you're a startup tackling your first SOC two or ISO twenty seven zero zero one or an enterprise managing vendor risk, Vanta's trust management platform makes it quicker, easier, and more scalable.
Vanta还能帮助您以高达五倍的速度完成安全问卷，从而更快赢得更大交易。
Vanta also helps you complete security questionnaires up to five times faster so that you can win bigger deals sooner.
结果如何？
The result?
根据IDC最新研究，Vanta客户每年节省超过50万美元，效率提升三倍。
According to a recent IDC study, Vanta customers slashed over $500,000 a year and are three times more productive.
建立信任不是可选项。
Establishing trust isn't optional.
Vanta让它自动化实现。
Vanta makes it automatic.
访问Vanta.com/Lenny立享1000美元优惠。
Get $1,000 off at Vanta dot com slash Lenny.
Rachel，非常感谢你来做客，欢迎来到播客节目。
Rachel, thank you so much for being here, and welcome to the podcast.
非常感谢邀请我，Lenny。
Thank you so much for having me, Lenny.
能来到这里我感到非常荣幸。
I am honored to be here.
能有你在这里是我的荣幸。
I'm honored to have you here.
我本来想用另一个问题开始的，但我们在这次对话前聊过。
I was gonna start with a different question, but we were chatting ahead of this conversation.
我总是喜欢问嘉宾，你希望人们从这次对话中获得什么？
And I I always like to ask guests, what do you want people to get out of this conversation?
我很喜欢你的回答。
And I loved your answer.
所以我只想让你分享这个。
So I I just want you to share this.
那就让我直接问你吧。
So let me just ask you.
你希望人们从我们即将进行的对话中获得什么？
What are you hoping people get out of the conversation we're about to have?
真诚地说，我希望听众们能认识到，创业过程中的人文层面既充满乐趣又极具影响力，而且其实很容易做到。
Genuinely, I hope that your listeners take away that the human side of business building is incredibly fun and impactful and that it it's easy to do.
他们可以用简单的工具来实现。
They can do it with simple tools.
因此我希望通过这次对话，产品负责人、技术负责人和创始人们能带着更强的赋能感和动力离开，更懂得如何与周围人建立共鸣。
So I'm hopeful that through this conversation, heads of product, heads of engineering, founders walk away feeling more empowered and more motivated to attune to the people around them.
所以我听到的是，如果你在打造产品、组建团队或创立公司的人文层面遇到困难，其实是有解决方案的。
So what I'm hearing is just if you're struggling with, the human side of building a product, building a team, building a company, there are answers.
你可以做到的。
You can do it.
是的。
Yes.
完全正确。
Exactly.
这是可以实现的，而且实际上是最自然的状态。
It is achievable, and it's actually most natural.
人们本能地关心与他们共事的伙伴。
Theaters want to care about the people they work with.
大家都想赋能身边的人，但有时世界的忙碌会阻碍我们，那些待办事项的紧迫性让你忽略了眼前的人。
They wanna empower those around them, but sometimes the busyness of our world gets in the way and the urgency of the litany of things to do distracts you from the people in front of you.
事实上，如果你真正了解周围的人才，并创造一个让他们能成功的环境，你的事业就会蓬勃发展。
And actually, if you really understand the talent around you and you create an environment where they can be successful, your business will thrive.
我认为对人们来说最难的部分是，知道这个问题可以得到帮助。
I think the hardest part of this for people is just, there's, like, the knowing this can be helped with.
另一方面则是要有足够的勇气去寻求帮助并承担这件事，因为这太难了。
The other is just being vulnerable enough to seek help and to take this on because it's so hard.
就像，哦，也许我不是一个好经理。
Just like, oh, maybe I'm not a great manager.
这种想法让人感觉不太好。
That's I don't that doesn't feel good.
是的。
Yeah.
那确实如此。
That that's true.
我是说，寻求帮助确实需要勇气，但我认为你的听众都非常致力于自我成长。
I mean, it's vulnerable to seek help, but I think your audience, know to be incredibly committed to growth.
我听说上过你播客的人，他们几十年来都专注于自我提升。
I hear of people who come on your podcast, and they've spent decades focused on self improvement.
其实我想给你讲个故事，关于我的一位客户，他非常喜欢你的播客，上周我刚和他聊过。
And I actually wanna tell you a story about one of my clients who loves your podcast, and I was talking to him last week.
这位客户我认识了十年，他是个人成长承诺的典范。
He's a client I've seen for ten years, and he's a person who exemplifies a commitment to personal growth.
我开始与他合作时，他还是Coinbase的一线工程经理，我们讨论过他是谁、他的优势是什么，以及他更大的目标。
I started working with him when he was a frontline engineering manager at Coinbase, and we talked about who he is, what his strengths are, and his bigger picture why.
他谈到过有朝一日要发起一场全球运动的梦想。
And he talked about this dream of creating a global movement one day.
他真正专注于构建社区，认为在他周围创造可能性的途径就是建立一个强大的社区。
He was really focused on building community, and he thought the path for creating possibility in the world around him was creating a strong community around him.
他持续不断地提升自己的领导能力。
And he continually worked on his leadership capacity.
在这十年间，他还在手臂上纹了一个图案——一棵被红木林环绕的太阳，提醒他记住自己的核心优势和人生目标。
And over the ten years, at some point, he created a tattoo on his arm that's a son with a redwood grove around it that reminded him of his core strengths and his purpose.
而现在，猜猜他在做什么，Lenny？
And today, guess what he's doing, Lenny?
大获成功。
Killing it.
他不仅大获成功，还在运营一个全球性的Coinbase社区，名为Base以及Base应用。
He's not only killing it, but running a community, a global community for Coinbase called Base and the Base app.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
这是全球最大的以太坊第二层解决方案，一个面向创作者和开发者的社区。
It's the largest Ethereum l two in the world, and it's a community of creators and developers.
而且他现在过得很开心。
And he's in having a great time.
可以说，他比以往任何时候都更享受。
Like, he's having more fun than ever.
因此我认为，对于那些致力于追求卓越和影响力的人来说，如果他们能发挥自己的天赋并回归初心，就能在影响世界的同时获得更多乐趣。
And so I think for the people who are committed to excellence and impact, recognizing that if they lean into their gifts and they get back into their purpose, they can have more fun while having an impact on the world.
这个故事让我想起为什么我如此热爱这类对话——因为我们即将探讨的内容（在这最后开场白后就会深入），通常是锁在少数人小圈子里的珍贵知识，只有那些财力雄厚的人才能接触到。
This story reminds me just why I love these sorts of conversations because the sort of stuff we're gonna be talking about, and we'll get into it right after this final preamble, is stuff that's usually locked away in these very small rooms, are only accessible to folks with a bunch of money.
你明白吗？
You know?
这些是人们在职业生涯中愿意花费数万甚至数十万美元获取的知识，而我非常乐意将这些与你从共事者身上学到的经验分享给所有人，帮助大家共同成长。
This is stuff people pay tens of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars for over the course of their career, and I just love the idea of sharing all this with everyone to help them all learn from the stuff that you've learned from all these people you've worked with.
所以我真的很期待能深入探讨这些内容。
So I'm really excited to be digging into stuff.
首先我想问的是，当客户来找你时，你认为阻碍他们成为成功领导者的最大短板是什么？
The first thing I wanna dive into, I actually ask you, when clients come to you, what is the thing what is the biggest gap they have that is keeping them from being successful as leaders?
你告诉我，关键在于懂得何时该指导，何时该直接告诉人们该做什么，并学会如何指导。
And you told me it's essentially knowing when to coach versus knowing when to just tell people what to do and learning to coach.
谈谈你对此的看法，为什么这一点如此重要，以及你如何帮助人们培养这项技能。
Talk about what you see there, why this is so important, and how you help people develop the skill.
我认为大多数领导者，尤其是技术型领导者，都认为自己必须掌握所有答案。
I think that most leaders, especially technical leaders, assume they have to have all the answers.
人们能在各自领域晋升，是因为他们可靠、值得信赖，曾是房间里最聪明的人。
People have climbed the ladder in whatever realm they're in because they've been dependable, reliable, the smartest person in the room.
但当你领导一家快速扩张的公司时，你很快就会比周围的人掌握更少的背景信息。
But when you're leading a quickly scaling company, you quickly have less context than the people you're around.
你之前的行事方式不再奏效，因为你无法深入掌握每个问题的方方面面。
And the way you were operating before doesn't work because you don't have the ability to wrap your arms around every problem in a deep way.
我见过从一线管理者到管理8000人公司的各级领导者，都在纠结何时需要给出答案，以及当没有答案时有哪些选择。
So I've seen leaders at every phase from frontline managers up to running an 8,000 person company struggle with knowing when do I have to have the answer, and when I don't have the answer, what options do I have?
但优秀的领导者明白，如果你总是试图提供建议和答案，实际上并没有让团队具备解决难题的能力。
But great leaders know that when you try to advise and have the answer all the time, you're not actually equipping your team to go solve the hard problems.
你正在训练你的团队把所有难题都交给你解决。
You're training your team to come to you with all of the hard problems.
而辅导则是另一种方式。
And coaching is a different way.
这是一条能激发团队潜力、更能激励团队成员的替代路径。
It's an alternative path that unlocks brilliance in your team and is way more motivating for the people around you.
所以辅导实际上是项可学习的技能，硅谷有大量教练就是明证，但你不必像高管教练那样辅导。
So coaching is actually a learnable skill, obviously, because there's tons of coaches around Silicon Valley, but you don't have to coach in the same way that an executive coaches.
当有人带来难题时，你可以将精力转向保持好奇，创造思考空间帮助他们自行解决问题。
You can shift your energy into curiosity when someone brings you a hard problem to solve and create space to get curious and help them solve their own problem.
显然，有时直接建议才是正确选择。
So, obviously, sometimes advising is the right path.
若员工缺乏所需技能来处理紧急问题，此时提供指导正是时候。
If there's an urgent issue, the person coming to you doesn't have the skill they need, that's a time to advise and help.
但领导者常误以为他们需要为专家们解决所有问题。
But leaders over rotate assuming the people that they've hired who are experts in their domain need them to solve the problem.
所以我认为让你的听众知道辅导是另一种选择很有帮助，我可以帮助他们学习一些相关的基本技能。
So I think it's useful for your listeners to actually know that coaching's an alternative, and I can help them learn some basic skills around this.
好的。
Okay.
我很想学习这些技能。
I'd love to learn those skills.
这让我想起《哈佛商业评论》上有篇著名文章。
What this makes me think about is there's this famous Harvard Business Review piece.
我不确定。
I don't know.
大概是三十年前关于'背上的猴子'那篇？
It's, like, thirty years ago maybe about the monkey on the back.
你知道这篇文章吗？
You know this piece?
差不多吧。
Same more.
好的。
Okay.
那好吧。
So okay.
我们会附上链接。
We'll link to it.
这个观点是说，作为领导者，人们总是来找你，试图把他们背上的猴子甩给你。
It's this idea that as a leader, people always just coming to you, trying to give you their monkey that's sitting on their back.
他们会说，嘿。
And they're like, hey.
这只猴子造成了麻烦。
This monkey's causing male's problem.
我不知道该怎么办。
I don't know what to do.
但这只猴子，给你吧。
But this monkey, here you go.
你接过猴子并喂养它，帮助它弄清楚需要什么。
You take it and feed it and help it figure out what it needs.
领导者的角色就是让猴子始终待在员工背上，并帮助他们找到解决问题的方法。
And the role of a leader is to keep the monkey on the back of the person and help them figure out how to solve the problem.
正是你所描述的那样。
Exactly what you're describing.
是的。
Yeah.
这个比喻很棒。
That's a great analogy.
我很喜欢这个说法。
I love that.
我认为领导者有时在没有答案时会临时编造解决方案。
I think leaders make things up when they don't have answers sometimes.
当有人带着问题来找你时，你总是想帮忙。
A a person comes to you with a problem and you just want to help.
但最好的帮助方式其实是做大多数领导者不擅长的事。
But the best way to help is actually doing something that most leaders don't do well.
关键在于要适应具体情境。
It's attuning to what is the context?
这个人需要什么？
What does this person need?
他们卡在什么地方了？
What are they blocked on?
通过这些问题引导他们自己解决问题。
And ask them with those questions so that they can solve their own problem.
那么我们来讨论如何提升这方面的能力。
So we're gonna let's talk about how to get better at this.
但首先，你刚才提到什么时候直接告诉他们该怎么做才是明智的？
But first of all, when you said, when is it actually smart to just tell them what to do?
你说是在他们缺乏相关技能的时候。
You said it's when they don't have the skills to do it.
还有其他类似的启发式方法吗，比如，好吧。
Is there any other kind of heuristics of, like, okay.
在这些情况下直接告诉他们该怎么做？
Just tell them what to do in these cases?
是的。
Yeah.
这是个紧急问题，而你确实有个想推进的解决方案。
It's an urgent issue, and you actually have an answer that you wanna drive.
所以不要用辅导方式把这变成猜谜游戏。
So don't coach and make it a game.
比如，你非要让团队成员猜你心里的想法。
Like, you want your person on your team to guess what's in your mind.
这种时候就不适合进行辅导。
That's a not a good time to coach.
你心里已经有绝对想让他们执行的事。
You you have something you absolutely want them to do.
你知道正确答案。
You know the right answer.
你希望他们积极主动地去执行。
You want them to be motivated to go do it.
给他们建议。
Advise them.
帮助他们看清路径。
Help them see the path.
但大多数领导者过度依赖这种解决方案。
But most leaders over index on that that solution.
所以我想分享，Lenny，我可以教你两个我认为是领导力辅导基础的技能，你今晚就可以在生活中与妻子实践。
So I want to share maybe, Lenny, I can teach you two skills that I think are the basics of leader coaching that you can use in your own life tonight with your wife.
好的。
Okay.
她会喜欢这个的。
She's gonna love this.
实际操作中运用。
Operate with.
我们开始吧。
Let's do it.
希望你们的听众也能用上这些技巧。
And hopefully, your listeners can use them too.
我们开始吧。
Let's do it.
好的
Okay.
第一个技巧是积极倾听
So the first skill is active listening.
莱尼，你可能是个很好的倾听者，因为这就是你的工作内容——倾听那些上你播客的人
And, Lenny, you're probably a good listener because this is what you do for a living, is you listen to the people who come on your podcast.
但我不确定你是否看过《搏击俱乐部》
But I don't know if you've seen Fight Club.
有句台词说，大多数人其实并没有在听
There's a quote, most people aren't listening.
他们只是在等待轮到自己说话的机会
They're just waiting for their turn to talk.
没错
Yeah.
这种现象在科技行业很普遍，而优秀的领导者会扭转这种局面，真正倾听
This is rampant in tech, and great leaders flip that script and tune in.
他们是那种走进房间就能发现'房间里的大象'的领导者。
They're the kinds of leaders who walk into a room and they can see the elephants.
他们能够明确指出问题所在。
They can name them.
他们能提出尖锐问题促使人们协作。
They can ask the hard questions to get people collaborating.
实际上倾听分为三个层次。
So there's actually three levels to listening.
第一层级，倾听的第一层级，是内在的。
So the first level, listening level one, is internal.
假设你正在向我讲述一个问题。
Let's say you're talking to me about a problem.
我在思考这个问题对我的影响。
I'm thinking about the implications of that problem on me.
我完全被自己的内心独白所干扰。
I'm completely distracted with my own inner dialogue.
这就是第一层级。
That's level one.
大多数人在生活中匆忙应对，停留在第一层级。
Most people go through their world rushed and in level one.
第二层级的倾听是专注的。
Level two listening is focused.
当你和我说话时，我能复述你所说的内容。
So you're talking to me and I can repeat back what you're saying.
所以我在聆听你所描述的词语，这通常是一对一交流中的良好表现。
So I am listening to the words you're describing, and that's typically what happens in a good one on one.
我们正一起解决问题，专注于你的话语。
We're problem solving together and focused on your words.
第三层次的倾听是全局性倾听。
Level three listening listening is global listening.
这意味着我能听到言语背后的含义。
So that's when I'm hearing beneath the words.
我听到的是你在传达的信息，而不仅仅是你说出的话。
I'm hearing what you're communicating, not just what you're saying.
我观察着你的肢体语言。
I see your body language.
我注意到你的语气变化。
I notice your tone of voice.
我了解你所谈论话题的上下文背景，因此我能反馈出比你意识到的更多洞见——因为我理解着你传递的所有信息。
I know the context around what you're talking about, and I can reflect back more insight about what's happening than you're aware of because I'm understanding everything you're communicating.
因此，进入第三层次的倾听是优秀领导者在影响他人、推销、描绘愿景时，尤其是指导他人时所做的。
So dropping into level three listening is what great leaders do when they're influencing, when they're selling, when they're pitching a vision, and definitely when they're coaching.
你想试试吗？
So do you wanna try it?
我们开始吧。
Let's do it.
好的。
Okay.
这样如何？
How about this?
我来示范一下第三层次的倾听。
I'll demonstrate some level three listening.
我要问你一个问题。
I'm gonna ask you a question.
好的。
Okay.
呃哦。
Uh-oh.
你之前告诉我你是个父亲。
You told me earlier you're a father.
是啊。
Yeah.
当父亲是什么感觉？
What is it like to be a dad?
哇。
Wow.
当父亲是什么感觉？
What it's like to be a dad?
太棒了。
It's amazing.
从很多方面来说，这是我做过的最了不起的事情。
It's like the most amazing thing I've ever done in many ways.
我太爱当父亲了。
I love it so much.
有时也很有挑战性，比如设定界限，知道什么时候该让他做他特别想做的事，什么时候该拒绝。
It's also quite challenging at times dealing with setting boundaries and knowing when to just let him do the thing he's really excited about or just saying no.
还有就让他哭一会儿。
And just letting him cry for a while.
这是我最近一直在面对的事情。
That that's something I've been dealing with recently.
但就像人们告诉你的那样。
But it's it's like everything people tell you it is.
基本上在各个方面都是如此，只是快乐的程度远超你从别人那里听到的，因为人们总是谈论所有的缺点、痛苦和挑战。
And so and and basically in every way, except the joy is so much higher, so much higher than you hear from other people because people always talk about all the all the downsides, all the pain, and challenges.
是啊。
Yeah.
我看得出来你谈起为人父时。
And I see you when you talk about being a father.
一开始，我看到你在椅子上坐立不安。
Initially, I saw you really squirm in your chair.
哇哦。
Woah.
这可是个大问题。
This is a big question.
而且，你知道吗，你眼神飘忽，一开始还躲着我的目光，因为我觉得你既热爱当父亲，又觉得这充满挑战。
And, you know, you looked up and down and kind of avoided my eye contact at first because my sense is you love being a dad and it's so challenging.
确实非常累人。
It's so tiring.
我从你的回答中听出了这两点，既有高度的喜悦，也有睡眠训练时的困扰、不得不让孩子失望时的难受，以及应对挑战性行为的艰难。
And I'm hearing both of that in your answer, like the high joy and the discomfort in having to sleep train and having to disappoint and navigating challenging behavior.
说得太对了。
Nailed it.
听到你这么说真是太好了。
That was very nice to hear.
显然，你认真听了我说的话，这真是积极倾听的好榜样。
Clearly, you listened to everything I said, and and that was a really good example of active listening.
被这样理解是什么感觉？
What what does it feel like to be seen that way?
感觉非常好。
It feels really nice.
能被倾听的感觉真的很棒。
It feels really nice to be to be heard.
而且你不只是简单复述我的话。
And and it's not just like you're repeating back my words.
而是理解了我话语背后更深层的含义、要点和整体图景。
It's here's what I got out of, like, kind of the level below what you're saying and the gist and the bigger picture.
是啊。
Yeah.
积极倾听时会产生某种情感连接。
There's some emotional connection when you listen actively.
而这只花了，你知道，不到一分钟的时间。
And that took, you know, less than a minute.
所以我想邀请听众们理解的是，积极倾听并不意味着你要为团队中的每个人安排一小时的辅导会议。
So what I wanna invite listeners to understand is that active listening doesn't mean you're setting up an hour coaching session with every person on your team.
没人有时间做这个。
No one has time for that.
但即便在你们已经相处的时间里，只要以新颖的方式专注于对方，真正给予他们你全部的注意力，这样你就能看到他们言语背后的感受，这对激励你的团队和帮助他们理解当前情境下表面之下的真实情况大有裨益。
But even in the time you're already spending, just focusing on the other person in a way that is novel and really gives them their your full attention so you can see their feelings under what they're saying goes a long way to motivating your team and helping them understand what's actually happening under the surface in this situation.
而且我认为，仅仅用不同的词语复述他们的话就蕴含着巨大的力量。
And there's I think there's just so much power in just indifferent words repeating back what they said.
这几乎就是你描述中所隐含的意思。
That's almost implied in what you're describing.
听起来像是...所以我不确定。
Like, it sounds like so I don't know.
就像是一个他们能看穿的把戏。
Like, a trick that they'll see through.
但知道你在倾听我并且会展现出积极倾听的态度，光是听到你复述我的话就让人感觉很舒服。
But knowing that you're listening to me and you're gonna show me active listening, it still feels really nice to just hear back what I said.
这其中蕴含着微妙而强大的力量。
There's a lot of power in that in the subtle.
真美妙。
Beautiful.
太好了。
Great.
是啊。
Yeah.
这其实包含了对听到内容的整合过程。
There's there's an element of synthesizing what I'm hearing verbally.
这就是专注倾听的部分。
That's the focus listening part.
然后还要反馈出我注意到的情绪。
And then mirroring back the emotions that I'm noticing.
那些情绪。
The emotions.
甚至是我猜测的事情。
And even things that I'm guessing.
我可以说，是这样吗？
And I can say, is that right?
而你可以说，不是的。
And you can say, no.
实际上，我对当爸爸的挑战并不感到矛盾。
Actually, I'm not conflicted about the challenges of being a dad.
我只是非常快乐。
I just am so joyful.
现在我明白你的立场了，你也一样。
And then now I understand where you're coming from and so do you.
太棒了。
Awesome.
好的。
Okay.
所以教练的核心技能之一就是积极倾听。
So this is a core skill of coaching is active listening.
是的。
Yes.
这就是倾听。
So that's listening.
第二个技能，有力提问。
Second skill, powerful questions.
那么
So
提出有力提问意味着我对真实情况感到好奇，而且没有一个标准答案。
asking powerful questions means I'm curious about what's really going on, and there's not one right answer.
有力提问能帮助你获得洞见，带你找到之前未曾想到的新解决方案，而不是我在引导证人。
So a powerful question helps you gain insight, and it takes you to a new solution set you didn't have before, but it's not me leading the witness.
我并不是试图引导你得出特定答案。
I'm not trying to guide you to a specific answer.
那就不是一个有力的问题了。
That wouldn't be a powerful question.
因此，我喜欢为领导者配备四类能够解锁洞察力的问题。
So something that I like to equip leaders with is four kinds of questions that you can ask to unlock insight.
第一类问题我采用GROW模型。
So the first kind is I use a grow model.
GROW模型就是四类不同范畴的有力问题。
So the grow model just is four different categories of kinds of powerful questions.
GROW中的G代表目标（Goal）。
So the g in grow is goal.
成功是什么样子的？
So what does success look like?
你希望达成什么样的结果？
What's the outcome that you wanna have?
任何关于定义最佳情景的问题。
Any question that's around defining the best case scenario.
GROW模型中的R代表你当前的现实情况。
The r in the grow model is about your current reality.
你卡在哪里了？
Where are you stuck?
你目前面临哪些挑战？
What are your current challenges?
你尝试过哪些方法？
What have you tried?
O代表你的可选方案。
The o is about your options.
让我们扩展你能理解的机会，看清面前的各种选择。
So let's expand the opportunities that you can understand of the choices you have in front of you.
你可以采取哪些不同的路径？
What are the various paths you could take?
GROW模型中的W代表前进方向。
And the w in the grow model is the way forward.
你接下来打算怎么做？
What are you gonna do next?
这听起来很简单，也确实简单——只要你愿意花时间和空间仔细倾听并提出这些问题。
So this sounds simple, and it is simple if you take the time and space to listen carefully and ask any of these questions.
你的团队成员会感激你给予他们思考的空间和时间，从而解锁他们之前未曾想到的选项，并带着具体的下一步行动离开。
The people on your team will appreciate the space and time to unlock an option that they didn't think of before and walk away with a concrete next step.
好的。
Okay.
我来复述一下你刚才说的内容。
So just to reflect back what you're saying.
就像有人背着猴子来找你求助。
So this is someone comes to you with a monkey on their back.
我正在尝试解决这个问题。
Here's a problem I'm trying to solve.
我们团队这个人遇到的问题就是，比如事情没做对，或者某个功能不工作，诸如此类的情况。
This problem this person on my team is having is just, like, not doing something right or this feature isn't working, something like that.
首先，你要做的是倾听。
You're so first of all, listen.
在倾听时要非常非常专注。
Be very be very active in your listening.
把你听到的内容和对方的情绪反馈给他们。
Reflect back what you're hearing, their emotions.
对。
Yep.
然后围绕'成功解决这个问题会是什么样子'来提问。
And then ask them questions around what does success look like for this?
目标是什么？
What is the goal?
目标是什么？
What is the goal?
你试图了解的事情，成功是什么样的？
What does success look like for the thing you're trying to hear?
成功是什么样的？
What does success look like?
第二点就是今天的现实情况如何？
Two is just what's today's reality?
今天发生了什么？
What's happening today?
然后是可选方案。
Then options.
这些是你认为存在的选项。
Here's options that you think exist.
所以这是你在询问他们有哪些选择。
So this is you asking them what are the options.
是的。
Yeah.
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你有哪些前进的路径？
What are your paths forward?
你接下来能做什么？
What could you do next?
你接下来能做什么？
What could you do next?
然后...你知道这个过程是自然发展的，不是简单的一二三步骤。
And then and then you like, I you know, this is is organic, so it's not just like one, three, four.
想象一下。
Imagine Yeah.
最后一步就是，好吧。
The next the final step is just, okay.
前进的方向是什么？
What's the way forward?
你...你想做什么？
What do you what do wanna do?
完全正确。
That's exactly right.
而且你不必按照这个顺序来。
And you don't have to do it in this order.
这只是四种类型的问题。
These are just four kinds of questions.
我明白了。
I see.
可能会来
Might come
而有人对自己的目标非常明确。
and someone's super clear about their outcome.
你是知道的。
You know that.
你不需要花时间问他们关于这方面的问题。
You don't need to spend any time asking them questions about that.
也许你只是想深入了解他们卡在哪里。
Maybe you just wanna really dig in on where are they stuck.
一旦他们开始谈论自己的现状和困境，就会意识到：'哦，我被卡住是因为跨部门同事在阻挠我，我和他们没有任何交情。'
And once they start talking about their reality and where they're stuck, then they realize, oh, I'm stuck because my cross functional partner is blocking me, and I don't have any relationship with them.
实际上我需要去和他们当面沟通，进行一次突破性对话，告诉他们我的困境。
I need to go meet with them actually and just have a breakthrough conversation, tell them where I'm stuck.
所以有时候把问题说出来，为他们创造这样的空间就能极大地帮助他们。
So sometimes talking this out loud, just creating that space for them is gonna help them tremendously.
这里有种隐含的意思：当事人往往知道答案或能找到答案，他们只是需要一点推动就能到达那里。
And there's kind of an implication here that the person often knows the answer or can come to the answer, and they just need a little bit of nudge to get there.
对。
Yeah.
这绝对是你想指导的情况——当你认为谈话对象具备正确背景且能自行解决问题时。
This is definitely you wanna coach when you think the person you're talking to has the right context and can solve their own problem.
这是教练式辅导的前提。
That's a premise of coaching.
如果对方需要你的指导，主动来找你说'嘿'，这时候就不适合用教练方式了。
You wouldn't coach if someone needs your guidance and comes to you and says, hey.
我正在尝试让我的公司上市。
I'm trying to take my company public.
你之前成功让你的公司上市了。
You took your company public.
你能详细告诉我你当时具体采取了哪些步骤吗？
Can you tell me exactly the steps you took to get there?
这种时候不适合用教练方式。
Not a good time to coach.
这就引出一个问题：如果他们得出了糟糕的结论怎么办？这时候你会建议什么时候该直接说'要不试试这个方案'？
There's kind of like this begs the question, what if they just come to a terrible conclusion, and you're just like, advice on when to actually just like, what about this instead?
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
我觉得这很棒。
I think that's great.
所以如果你对他们分享的内容有非常强烈的负面反应，当然，隐瞒这种反应对任何人都没有好处。
So if you have a really strong negative reaction to what they're sharing, of course, it's not it doesn't behoove anyone to hide that.
我认为你应该保持好奇。
I think you get curious.
嘿。
Hey.
帮我理解你是怎么得出这个结论的，因为这是我的反应。
Help me understand how you came to that conclusion because here's my reaction to that.
所以你既诚实又充满好奇。
So you're honest, but you're also curious.
因此，在管理者或领导者情境下的指导与高管辅导对话是不同的。
So coaching in a manager or a leader context is not the same as in an executive coaching conversation.
你正在管理这个人。
You're managing this person.
你要对他们的结果负责。
You're responsible for their outcomes.
你不是在安排一个长达一小时的辅导会议。
You're not setting up an hour long coaching session.
你只是把辅导作为工具箱中的额外工具，与建议相结合，并在你的单独会议和团队会议中创造更多空间——大概多15%的开放式问题空间。
You're just using coaching as an additional tool in your toolkit from advising, and you're creating more space, maybe 15% more space in your one on ones, in your meetings for open ended questions.
我特别喜欢这个说法。
I love this phrase.
帮我理解一下。
Help me understand.
我有个经理过去就特别擅长这个。
One of my managers used to be really good at this.
就像你能感觉到他在说：帮我理解一下你这部分想法的逻辑。
Just like you could tell he's like, help me understand this part of your your thinking.
是的。
Yeah.
当你保持好奇心而不轻易否定他人想法时，你实际上是在帮助他们思考。
And the other thing that does when you're curious and you don't just shut down someone's idea is you're helping them think.
你不是在让他们意识到会搞砸事情，除非他们主动寻求建议。
You're not helping them realize they're gonna screw it up unless they come to you for advice.
你是在帮助他们掌握正确提问的方法和应有的怀疑态度。
You're helping equip them with the right questions to ask and the right skepticism to have.
因此，当下属与你世界观不同时，保持对话总是有益的。
And so it's always useful to be in conversation when someone who reports to you has a different worldview than you do.
他们提出这个你认为糟糕的好主意必有原因，而这正是学习发生的时刻。
There's some reason they came up with this great idea that you think is a terrible idea, and actually that's where the learning happens.
实际上你可能错了，并意识到他们确实有更好的解决方案。
And you may actually be wrong and you may realize, okay, they actually have a better solution.
我现在明白了。
I get it now.
是的。
Yeah.
这其实在我的人才讨论中经常发生，因为我有人力资源业务合作伙伴的背景。
This actually happens to me all the time in talent conversations because I have a background in being an HR business partner.
我经常与CEO们合作，他们正在考虑组建领导团队。
And I'm working with CEOs and they're thinking about building their leadership team.
我希望每个人都对自己的团队成员持非常严格的标准，因为如果你拥有一支A+团队，就能在世界上做出伟大的成就。
And I want everyone to have a very rigorous stance on their talent because if you have an A plus squad, you're gonna do great things in the world.
有时他们会提出对明显不适合当前岗位的人进行绩效管理，但又想'也许我再等六个月，然后再谈这个问题'。
And sometimes they come up with an idea to performance manage someone who's clearly not working in the role, but think, oh, maybe I'll wait six months, and then we'll have a conversation.
我对此有明确的立场。
I have a strong point of view.
我不会放任这种情况。
I'm not gonna let that slide.
但我会说'帮我理解为什么这是个好主意'，并继续追问这个问题。
But I'm gonna say, help me understand why that is a good idea, and I'm gonna press on that.
如果他们最终提出的方案与我不一致，我会坦诚分享我的观点，同时仍然授权他们自主解决问题。
And if they don't come to an idea that I'm aligned with, I'm gonna share openly my perspective while still empowering them to solve their own problem.
为了总结这条建议，你能分享一个例子让这个概念对大家更具体吗？
To close the loop on this piece of advice, is there an example you could share to make this super concrete for folks?
好吧，我给你举个例子，我有一个客户，我叫他杰夫，他经营一家人工智能公司，同时他实际上还兼任产品负责人的角色。
Well, I'm gonna give you an example of a client, I'm gonna call him Jeff, who runs an AI company, and he was essentially playing the role of the head of product also.
他手下的工程师和设计师团队不断壮大，客户基础也在快速增长。
And he had a growing number of engineers and designers, and his customer base was growing rapidly.
他开始感到完全不堪重负。
And he started to feel completely overwhelmed.
于是他来找我，我们开始一起进行教练辅导。
So he came to me, and we started coaching together.
很快他就意识到，自己成了每个决策的阻碍——无论是商业决策还是产品决策——这让他自己也很苦恼。
And soon he realized that he was the blocker on every decision, every business decision, every product decision, and he was resenting it.
他希望团队能够承担更多责任。
He wanted his team to take more ownership.
但通过一些辅导，他意识到正是因为自己一贯的做事方式，才导致团队养成了事事都来找他做决定的习惯。
But with some coaching, he realized he was training his team to come to him with every decision because he had always operated that way.
于是他决定组建小队，让工程师、产品负责人和设计师组成小团队专注于特定领域
So he decided to create squads and have small pods of engineers, product leaders, and designers focus on subsets of the team.
这在初创公司规模扩张过程中很常见
Very normal as you have a small startup scaling.
但他并没有为每个团队配备工程经理和产品负责人
But he didn't have an engineering manager and a product leader for every one of them.
所以这个转型比他准备的要早一些，完全是出于必要性
So this was a little bit earlier than he was equipped for because he did it out of necessity.
他还意识到需要改变自己与每个项目的技术负责人互动的方式，以便他们能承担更多责任。
And he also realized he needed to create some behavior change for the way he was interacting with the, like, tech lead on each project so that they would take more ownership.
所以我们真正投入了这个想法：我要开始建立系统，每两周进行一次产品评审。
So we really invested in this idea of I'm gonna start to set the system up so we have a product review every two weeks.
他们各自都有明确的KPI目标，这些目标是我们共同设计的。
They each have clear KPIs they're driving to that we co design.
而在接下来的季度里，我将从决策者的角色转变为教练的角色。
And for this next quarter, I'm shifting from the role of deciding on everything to coaching.
我会在我们的定期沟通中提出高质量的问题。
I'm gonna really ask good questions in our check ins.
我将围绕关键绩效指标展开工作，询问进展如何，了解他们遇到的困难。
I'm gonna align to the KPIs, ask how things are going, ask where they're stuck.
我上周刚和他进行了一次会议。
And I just had a session with him last week.
见到他真是令人惊喜，因为他现在充满活力多了。
It's amazing to see him because he's so much more energized.
他说各个小组的推进速度快了很多。
He said the squads are moving so much faster.
团队感觉更有自主权和积极性，他也有时间抬头规划2026年的工作，把时间用在发挥他的天赋上——产品愿景和战略制定。
The teams feel more empowered and motivated, and he has time to pick his head up and plan for 2026 and spend his time and his gifts, which are product vision and strategy.
这是一个更全面的例子，展示了当领导者从解决所有问题转变为指导模式时会产生什么结果。
So that's more of a global example of what it what results from you from leaders shifting from the mode of solving every problem to coaching.
这真是个绝佳的例子，充分展现了这种方式的威力——它让你的生活变得更好，因为其他人可以开始分担责任，而不是事事都来找你。
That's such a a great example of just the power of this is this makes your life so much better because other people can start picking up the slack and not come to you for everything.
这就像是，更好地倾听，提出几个有力的问题，就能带来如此大的改善，让周围的每个人都变得更好。
And it's like, listen better, ask a few powerful questions, and so much improves, so much Everybody around you gets better.
亲爱的，我们试试看吧。
Honey, let's try it.
哦，好吧。
So Oh, okay.
告诉我一个挑战吧。
Let's tell me a challenge.
无论是个人挑战、职业挑战，归根结底就是你正在挣扎的事情。
It could be a personal challenge, a professional challenge, just bottom line, something that you're struggling with.
哇哦。
Woah.
这些天我最困扰的就是没完没了的工作。
The main thing I struggle with these days is just endless work.
感觉就像这份简报，我早在六七年前就开始做了。
I feel like this newsletter I started this newsletter six, seven years ago at this point.
最初的时候，我只是想办一份轻松的电子报，作为副业，让自己放松一段时间。
And, originally, it was like, I'm just gonna build this chill newsletter, do this on the side, just kinda chill out for a while.
但现在它就像滚雪球一样越滚越大。
And now it's just like it just grows.
我忍不住想把它做得更出色、规模更大，现在又有了这个播客和其他正在进行的事情。
I couldn't help but make it more awesome and and bigger and have this podcast now and other stuff I got going on.
所以总是这样。
So it's always this.
我现在的生活状态就像——用《夺宝奇兵》里印第安纳·琼斯被巨石追赶的场景来形容——总觉得有块巨石在后视镜里紧追不舍，因为我得按时发布电子报文章、播客节目，还要处理所有相关事务。
So I'm in a world now where it's just this the way I think about it is the Indiana Jones boulder is constantly in my back rearview mirror just coming at me because I need to get a newsletter post out, get podcast episodes out, do all the things associated with that.
同时我还深陷于——我在Twitter和LinkedIn上有个大型Slack社区。
I'm also just in the middle of like, I have this large Slack community at Twitter and LinkedIn.
所以不断被各种小请求和小事情轰炸，这些琐碎事务很难直接忽略或拒绝。
So I'm just constantly being barraged with, like, small little asks and things and all these little things that never that's hard to just ignore and say no to.
所以我面临的困境就是永无止境的工作量。
So so what I struggle with is just endless work.
我开玩笑说，如果你老板是个工作狂，为自己工作可得小心。
I joke that be careful working for yourself if your boss is a workaholic.
这就是
And that's the
我完全能理解那种感受。
I totally relate to that.
好的。
Okay.
所以我听到的是各种噪音、需求轰炸，以及线上和工作生活中对你的持续请求。
So I'm hearing noise, barrage of of needs, and just constant requests of you online, in your work life.
总有些事情等着你去做，而且这种模式是你自己设计的。
There's always something that you need to be doing, and you've designed it that way yourself.
所以你某种程度上意识到，我原本是抱着通往自由洞见的初衷。
So you're kind of aware of I had this one intention of a path to freedom insight.
我猜那份简报原本是个充满激情的兴趣项目。
I imagine the newsletter was like a fun passion project.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而你忍不住把它变成了这份耗费全部精力的全职工作。
And you couldn't help but make it this all consuming full time job.
没错。
That's right.
让我补充一下。
Let me just add.
从很多方面来说，这也是我能想象到的最棒的事情，极其充实，我想不出还有什么比这更好的了。
It's like, in so many ways, the most awesome thing I could ever imagine doing also and extremely fulfilling, and I couldn't think of anything better I'd rather be doing.
是啊。
Yeah.
所以我认为这是个重要因素。
So I think that's an important element.
绝对如此。
Absolutely.
那些印第安纳琼斯式的巨石一直在追着我跑。
It's those Indiana Jones boulder constantly chasing me.
是啊。
Yeah.
我能感受到你对自己日常工作的感恩与共鸣，但同时我也听到你在质疑：为什么做这件热爱的事时，总感觉像在拼命求生？
I can feel the gratitude and the resonance with what you get to do every day, and yet I hear you questioning why does it have to feel like I'm fighting for my life while I'm doing this thing I love?
可以这么说吧。
That's one way to put it.
没错。
Yeah.
因为巨石会把人压扁啊。
Mean because boulder squishy.
是啊。
Yeah.
约翰，巨石正朝你滚来呢。
John boulder is coming for you.
哎呀，老兄。
Oh, man.
一种战斗或逃跑的本能。
A fight or flight instinct.
我们都有这种本能。
We all have.
确实如此。
That's true.
好的。
Okay.
是啊。
Yeah.
所以感谢你足够坦诚，愿意与听众和我分享这些。
So thank you for being vulnerable enough to share that with your listeners and with me.
我想问你，理想状态会是什么样子？
I wanna ask you, what would dream state look like?
假设六个月后，你仍在经营这个你创造的美丽事业，但感觉已经不同了。
So let's say in six months, you're still running this beautiful business that you've created and you feel differently.
会发生什么变化呢？
What is happening?
我想象中的场景大体相同，只是有了更多自由时间。
What I imagine is the same thing mostly, just much more free time.
有更多时间尝试和探索其他事物。
Some more time to experiment and play with other things.
与此同时，新闻简报继续保持出色和高品质。
And at the same time, the newsletter continues to be awesome and high quality.
播客节目也继续保持出色和高品质。
The podcast continues to be awesome and high quality.
所以就是继续产出同样高质量的内容，只是有了更多自由时间，肩上的巨石可能变小了。
So it's continuing to put out the same high quality stuff, just more free time, less the boulders may be smaller.
是啊。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
那么空闲时间能为你带来什么？
So what does free time enable for you?
当你想到...我听到你对高质量产品的深切承诺。
When you think about I I hear your com deep commitment to quality products Yeah.
以及高质量的产出，但又渴望在这些对你至关重要的部分上感到更轻松灵活。
And quality output, but this longing to feel a little bit more playful or flexible with those parts that are essential to you.
非常实际地说，现在是时候玩玩AI工具了，就是探索和捣鼓一下，而不是像往常那样。
Very practically, it's time to play around with, you know, AI tools, just like explore and just kind of tinker versus like, okay.
我所有的时间都得专注于新闻通讯，为下周做得更好。
All the time I have, I need to focus on the newsletter, make it better for next week.
哦，它要发布了。
Oh, it's coming out.
这些是我必须做的事情。
Here's things I gotta do.
哦，这个播客，得准备一下。
Oh, this podcast, gotta prep for that.
得编辑这个东西。
Gotta edit this thing.
所以现在就是捣鼓和探索的时候，就是那种感觉。
So it's just time to tinker and explore and and just, like yeah.
就是那种事情。
That kind of thing.
就是那种东西。
That kind of stuff.
有道理。
Sense.
对你来说，探索和捣鼓有什么重要意义？
And what's important about exploring and tinkering to you?
因为在我的工作中，我需要保持对行业趋势的前瞻性。
Because in the work I do, I need to stay ahead on where things are going.
我不能只是，你知道，坐在那里高谈阔论。
I can't just, you know, sit around and pontificate from a cloud.
我需要真正理解事物的运作方式，什么是有效的，什么是无效的，什么是真实的，什么是虚假的。
I need to really understand how things work, what's work what's working, what's not, what's real, what's not.
所以要尽可能多地接触实际情况，而不仅仅是发布内容。
So being on the ground as much as I can with what's actually going on versus just, you know, putting out content.
这很有道理。
That makes sense.
你的语速很快。
Your voice is moving really fast.
我听出你在描述自己所做事情时，语气中透露着一种紧迫感。
You're I I kind of hear you feeling behind even in the way you're describing what you're doing.
很好的倾听能力。
Good and effective listening.
有趣的是，当你谈到探索和尝试时，一开始你用一种很从容的方式描述它。
What's interesting to me is when you're talking about exploring and tinkering, when you first said it, you said it's in kind of a spacious way.
比如，探索和摆弄东西很有趣。
Like, it's fun to explore and tinker.
你天生就充满好奇心。
You're deeply naturally curious.
你总能发现新见解。
You find new insights.
但后来我又听你说，这是一种保持领先的方式。
But then I also heard you say, and it's a way to stay ahead.
我必须这样做才能感觉自己掌握了信息。
I have to do it in order to feel like I'm informed.
那么你对这种差异怎么看？
So what do you make of that difference?
是啊。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这是同一枚硬币的两面。
Those are two two sides of the coin.
我想还有另一个因素，让我来回答这个问题。
I there's like another element of I guess, let me answer that question.
我认为这两点都是正确的。
I think I think those are both true.
我不确定。
I don't know.
因为实际上，我进入这个领域的原因就是因为它太有趣、太吸引人了。
Because it's actually like, the reason I got into this is because it was so fun and so interesting.
就像这样，这就是正在发生的事情。2
Just like, here's what's happening.
这就是未来的样子。
Here's what the future Yeah.
建议。
Advice.
这里有一些方法可以提升你的工作质量。
Here's ways to improve in the work that you do.
所以我依然热爱这份工作。
So there's still like, I still love it.
只是我现在花在这部分的时间变少了，更多时候就像是在内容生产的跑步机上机械运转，内容、内容、内容。
It's just I have less time to do that part and more it's just like the machine of the treadmill of content, content, content.
是啊。
Yeah.
还有就是能花更多时间，我甚至都没提这个，但就是能多陪陪我的儿子和妻子，你知道，那会非常棒。
There's also just like spending more like, I didn't even mention this, but just spending more time with my son and my wife, you know, that would be really great.
就是能有更多自由去做事情，虽然我们现在已经有很多自由了。
Just to have more freedom to go go do stuff, which we have a lot of that.
但更多是
But more is
很棒。
great.
有道理。
Sense.
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
所以我听到的目标与现状并没有天壤之别。
So the the goal that I hear is not so dramatically different from today.
就是保持这种高质量输出，同时拥有探索和摆弄的空间，还能与你最爱的人共度美好时光。
It's that you hold on to this high quality output, but you have space for exploring and tinkering and for spending quality time with the people you love most.
是的。
Yes.
你帮我总结得很到位，就是希望保持现状的基础上再多25%的自由时间。
The one way I'm thinking about as you reflect that back is, like, 25% more free time while everything else continues to be awesome.
而我遇到的挑战是，有时得到了额外时间，却又被新项目占满了。
And the challenge I run into is I sometimes get that extra time, and then I fill it with more projects and opportunities.
这就是问题所在，快速行动的动力，抓住即将到来的机会。
That's the problem, inertia of moving fast, taking advantage of the moment that's coming.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
那么这就完美地过渡到了——你当前有哪些工作方式在阻碍你获得那25%的自由时间？
So that's a perfect shift into what are your current ways of operating that get in the way of having that 25% of free time?
就是会答应更多的事情。
It's just like agreeing to more things.
就像，哦，看啊。
Just like, oh, look.
我现在有点空闲。
I'm kind of free right now.
哦，好吧。
Oh, okay.
我们就在这里做这件事，就在这里谈吧。
Let's do this let's do this talk here.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我们就同意这件事吧。
Let's agree to this thing here.
所以一旦我感到自由，我就想，好吧。
It's so it's just once I feel freedom, I like, okay.
我可以去做那件事。
I could do that other thing.
于是我就承诺了更多事情。
And so I commit to more stuff.
是啊。
Yeah.
这种对迎面而来的事情说'好'的承诺，对你有什么帮助呢？
And how is that commitment to saying yes to things that come at you serving you?
不太好。
Not great.
嗯，它在某些方面对你有帮助。
Well, it's serving you in some ways.
比如，你这么做是有原因的。
Like, what ben you're doing it for a reason.
是吗？
Is it?
这对你有什么好处？
What benefit does it have to you?
嗯，这要看具体是什么事。
Well, it depends on the thing.
你知道吗？
You know?
比如，我其实有个原则：从不参加演讲、上其他播客或活动，因为我发现从中得不到什么收获，反而会分散我做正事的精力。
Like, I actually have a rule of never doing a talk or going another podcast or going to events really, because I find I never really get much out of it, and it distracts me from the stuff I could be doing.
所以我制定了很多原则来拒绝那些对我无益的事情，但我还是会心软答应
So I've set up a lot of policies of just turning down things that don't serve me, but I still crumble and say yes
一些事情。
to stuff.
没错。
That's right.
所以这就是你的观点。
So that's your point.
你知道，当我承担更多工作时，这里那里确实有些价值，但最终我又会过度劳累。
There's, you know, there's value here and there when I take on more work, but and then I end up overworked again.
是啊。
Yeah.
我听到的是一种固定模式。
I'm hearing there's just a pattern.
这就像一种条件反射式的模式——尽管你为自己设定了拒绝某些事情的规则，并且似乎为这个界限感到自豪，但你总会自然地打破它，或者陷入用其他事情填补它的状态。
It's like a reflexive pattern of even though you set a rule for yourself to say no to certain things and you seem proud of that boundary, you naturally break it or you fall into filling it with other things.
没错。
That's right.
正是如此。
Exactly.
好的。
Okay.
所以你陷入了这种不断做更多事、承担更多责任的瘾，这在我们这个世界里太常见了，可能大多数听众都能感同身受。
So you're stuck in this kind of addiction to doing more and signing up for more, which is so normal in our world, and probably most listeners can relate to that.
这就是我们浸泡其中的环境。
That's kind of the soup we swim in.
所以我们必须清醒认识周围存在哪些输入信息。
So we have to be conscious of where what inputs we have around us.
嗯。
Mhmm.
那么让我们来探讨你面前的各种选择方案。
So let's explore your various options that you have in front of you.
你提到已经尝试过的一个方法是承诺，比如列出你不想再做的事情，那些你想拒绝的事情，并真正承诺坚持做到。
One that you mentioned already you tried was to commit like, make a list of the things you don't wanna be doing anymore, like things you wanna say no to and really committing to that and sticking to that.
嗯。
Mhmm.
还有哪些方法可以帮助你优先考虑，并为自己创造那25%的宝贵额外时间？
What are the other kinds of things you could do to help you prioritize and create that sacred 25% of extra time for yourself.
关于Ready Done的事，虽然还没完全见效，但我非常期待，因为我正在减少通讯和播客的发布频率。嗯。
Something about Ready Done, which hasn't kicked in fully yet, but that I'm really excited about as I reduce the cadence of my newsletter and podcast Mhmm.
理论上这应该是个巨大的改变。
Which in theory should be a massive change.
但播客的发布频率还没有降下来。
But the podcast hasn't the cadence of the podcast hasn't shifted down yet.
这会在明年实现。
It'll happen next year.
至于通讯的频率，我基本上改变了对读者的承诺，从'每周都会收到通讯'改为其他安排。
The newsletter cadences, I basically changed my promise to readers instead of you will receive a newsletter every week.
现在根据情况每月发两到四次，是的。
Now it's two to four times a month depending on what's going on Yeah.
感觉工作量很大。
Which felt huge.
问题是，我每周还是会想，哦，我可以写这个。
The problem is I still like, every week, I'm like, oh, and I can write about this thing.
哦，每周都有。
Oh, every week.
哦，其实没什么可写的。
There's oh, there's nothing.
这些事情正在发生。
These things happening.
我得把这个发出去。
I gotta put this out.
所以我几乎没利用好这个机会。
So I'm almost not taking advantage of that opportunity.
所以我能做的一件事就是不必每周都发布。
So something I could do is actually not publish every week.
另一个方法是寻求更多帮助，虽然这很困难，因为我已经有了不少得力助手，而且别人能为我做的事有限——他们无法代笔撰写精彩的简报，也无法像这样录制对话。
Another is just bring on some more help, which is difficult because I've got a lot of good help, and there's only so many things other people can do for me that isn't writing an awesome newsletter and recording conversations like this.
是啊。
Yeah.
但我一直在思考，而且我应该更深入地思考：哪些工作可以交给别人来分担。
But I'm always thinking about, and I should think deeper about where can people take more load off my plate.
嗯。
Yeah.
我很欣赏这个见解。
I love that insight.
按我的理解是：在某些领域减少亲力亲为，多考虑团队建设，真正提升团队能力，并严格筛选可以委派给他人的工作。
If you what I'm hearing is do less in certain areas and think about your team and really expanding the capacity of your team and be rigorous about the things you can hand off.
你可能对自己必须亲力亲为的事与团队可承担的事存在一些限制性观念。
You may have limiting beliefs around the things you need to do versus the people on your team.
我可能有。
I might.
我可能有。
I might.
还有你提到的观点我很喜欢，就是改进我对无益事项的拒绝策略。
And then your point I loved, which is just say improve my policies of what I say no to that don't serve me.
是的。
Yeah.
如果你对更多事情说不，你就能对哪些事情说可以呢？
What are the things you could be saying yes to if you said no to more things?
就是随便玩玩。
Just playing around with stuff.
就是有空间去探索、摆弄，坐着思考，而不是一直冲冲冲。
Just space to explore and tinker and just sit around and and think versus just go, go, go, go, go.
是的。
Yeah.
我听你说着，看着你整个人都变得轻松兴奋起来。
And I hear I just see you feel so light and excited in that.
就像，当你想到那种自由空间时，几乎要开心得飘飘然。
Like, you almost are giddy when you think about that spaciousness.
那真是太棒了。
That'd be so nice.
我想特别指出来，让你意识到这有多么特别——当拥有这样的空间和时间时，你在工作中能迸发出更多创造力。
And I just wanna name, reflect back to you how special that is and how much more creative you could be in your work when you have that space and time.
而你的能量槽已经满溢
And your bucket's I full with
能感受到。
feel that.
我确实感受到了。
I feel that.
嗯。
Yeah.
那么在未来两周内，你能做哪一件事来更接近你想创造的那种空间感？
So what's one thing you could do in the next two weeks that would help you get closer to the kind of spaciousness you wanna create?
我喜欢我们这样交流的过程，我一边在想这个GROW框架，一边欣赏你是如何实践它的。
I love that we're like, as we go through this, I'm like, thinking about this GROW framework, and I love how you're executing it.
就像，我亲眼看到它在运作。
Like, I see it in action.
是啊。
Yeah.
我现在正尝试做非常简单的辅导。
I'm trying to do very simple coaching right now.
只是想
Just to
沉浸其中。
be in it.
这太棒了。
This is great.
好的。
Okay.
对听众来说真的很容易跟上。
It's really easy to follow for your listeners.
是啊。
Yeah.
这太棒了。
This is great.
好的。
Okay.
那么未来几周我能做哪件事来帮你推进这个？
So what's the one thing I could do in the next couple weeks to help you move forward on this?
我认为至少可以跳过一两期简报，严格执行那个计划。
I think one is at least skip a a week or two of the newsletter and just actually stick to that plan.
不过这很难，因为接下来两周我已经安排好了。
So but it's tough because the next two weeks, I got already planned.
我得写一份礼物指南。
I gotta write I gotta write a gift guide.
这是我的决定。
That's my okay.
所以下下周我会休息一下。
So the week after, I'll take a break.
好的。
Okay.
酷。
Cool.
从录音开始两周内，我不会发布通讯。
So two weeks from the recording, miss, I won't publish a newsletter.
然后我会重新审视我的政策，决定接受和拒绝什么。
And then I'm gonna revisit my policies on what I say yes and no to.
我很喜欢这个计划。
I love that.
想想你正在答应的一切，以及那些你真正想答应并能妥善处理的事情。
Think about everything you're saying yes to, and what are things you wanna say yes to that you could treat it with?
所以每次答应某件事时，都要认真考虑这是一种取舍。
So really consider that it's a trade off every time you say yes to something.
你与最终状态的共鸣越强，对自身可能性的认知越清晰，短期内保持自律就越容易。
The more resonant you are with the end state and what's possible for you, the easier it is to be disciplined in the near term.
我就喜欢这种'你能从中获得什么'的明确表达方式。
I love just that element of here's what you will get out of this.
这不单纯是拒绝。
It's not just no.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
这就像是对你真正、真正想做的事情说‘是’。
It's like yes to this other thing you really, really wanna do.
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yes.
对那些事情要发自内心全身心地说是
Say it like a resonant full body yes to the things that are
绝对要。
Hell yes.
真正想要的。
Really want.
对。
Yeah.
绝对要，加个感叹号。
Hell yes with an exclamation.
没错。
Exactly.
好的。
Okay.
嗯，谢谢你，Lenny，让我得以展示什么是强有力的提问。
Well, thank you, Lenny, for letting me just demonstrate what powerful questions are.
我想和你这样做的原因是，你带来的例子实际上相当重要。
And the reason I wanted to do that with you is, you know, you brought an example that's actually pretty big.
这是个情感问题。
It's an emotional thing.
这是一种文化规范。
It's a cultural norm.
这是我们所有人通过成长过程，特别是在科技行业中工作所学会的一种存在方式。
It's a way of being that we've all learned to to be through growing up and and operating in tech, especially.
所以即便是这类话题，使用简单的GROW模型也会很有帮助。
So even with that kind of topic, using a simple grow model can be useful.
但人们向听众提出的议题往往非常复杂、技术性强且紧迫，然而同样类型的问题却能开启新的可能性——无论是关于如何构建技术基础设施，还是如何影响高管团队，又或是如何执行市场进入策略。
But people are coming at your listeners with topics that are very complicated, technical, urgent, but the same kinds of questions unlock new opportunity when it's about how to build technical infrastructure or how to, you know, influence the executive team or how to ship the go to market strategy.
所以我只想要一个具有广泛适用性的名称。
So I just want a name that's very transferable.
我很喜欢，在这次对话中已经获得了很棒的建议。
I love that I got great advice in this conversation already.
至少对我来说，这投资回报率简直太高了。
How what a great ROI for me at least.
在自己的播客上接受指导是什么感觉？
What did it feel like to be coached on your own podcast?
这...这感觉挺不寻常的。
It was it was it was unusual.
我当时就愣住了，心想：等等。
I'm just like, wait.
我得重新开始向你提问才行。
I gotta get back to asking you questions.
就在那里
That's where
我没事。
I'm Alright.
好吧。
Alright.
我们可以转换。
We can flip.
我们可以转换。
We can flip.
我确实想指出，通常当你被指导而非被告知该做什么时，你会更投入。
I I do wanna name that, typically, when you're coached versus told what to do, you're more bought in.
所以如果我告诉你，莱尼，我听过各种领导向我抱怨他们太忙了。
So if I told you, you know, Lenny, I've heard all kinds of leaders come to me talking about being too busy.
这是你应该做的。
Here's what you should do.
列出你正在做的所有事情。
Write a list of all the things you're doing.
写下你打算委派的事项。
Write the things you're gonna delegate.
你知道的，从你的日程表上删减掉25%的事情。
You know, cut out 25% of the things on your calendar.
我本可以给你一长串我认为你该做的事项清单，但你是自己情况的专家，真正能引起共鸣的是你自己想出来的方案，而且你更可能去执行它。
I could have given you a laundry list of things that I thought you should do without much context, but you're the expert on your own context and actually what resonates, and you're much more likely to do it if you came up with it.
我本来想早点提到这点。
I I was gonna mention that earlier.
这简直太对了。
That is so incredibly true.
就像，除非你主动寻求建议，很少有人会说‘请告诉我该做什么’。
Like, no one wants to like, unless you ask for advice, very few people are like, please tell me what to do.
直接告诉我吧。
Just tell me.
我真的很爱你。
I really love you.
只是些不请自来的建议。
Just unsolicited advice.
比如，如果事情进展不顺利。
Like, if it doesn't go well.
是啊。
Yeah.
优秀的领导者经常会问：你是需要建议，还是需要空间自己思考？
And great leaders often say, do you want advice, or do you want some space to think about it?
比如，我可以帮你梳理思路，或者你希望我告诉你我会怎么做？
Like, can I, you know, can I help you think it through, or would you like me to tell you what I would do?
在某些情况下这两种方式都可以。
And both are fine in certain situations.
所以先询问也很有用。
So asking is useful too.
是啊。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
这一点确实是其中非常重要的元素，我们本应提及的，很高兴你提到了。
That was a that's such an important element of this that I we should have mentioned, and that's I'm glad you did.
对。
Yeah.
明白。
Okay.
那么我要继续向你提问了。
So I'm gonna go back to asking you questions.
太好了。
Great.
第二个话题我想稍微花点时间讨论的，是关于职业倦怠。
The second segue to something I wanted to spend a little time on, which is burnout.
是啊。
Yeah.
你知道的，我说的就是那些经常导致职业倦怠的事情。
We you know, what I'm talking about is stuff that often leads to burnout.
我绝对没有职业倦怠，但你知道，这是科技行业的一个普遍问题，人们感到精疲力竭，工作太拼命，然后我认识的很多人就直接离开科技行业了。
I'm definitely not burnt out, but, you know, this is a a common problem in tech where people feel depleted and just go too hard and then they so many people I've worked with just left tech.
我接到一个电话。
I had a call.
你订了Airbnb。
You get Airbnb.
他转行了，现在在缪尔森林当公园管理员。
He went he's like a park ranger now at Muir Woods.
这就是有多远离喧嚣。
And that's how far Peaceful.
科技行业。
Tech.
如此宁静又如此美好。
So peaceful and so wonderful.
但我认为有些人就是太过拼命，最终精疲力竭，再也不想接触这类事情。
But I think that's just people go so hard sometimes and then just get burnt out and never wanna do anything like this again.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我知道你花了很多时间与创始人们探讨这个问题，你的方法确实很有帮助。
I know that you spent a lot of time on this with founders, and you have a really helpful approach.
那就聊聊你总结的经验吧——如何帮助科技行业的领导者避免倦怠，让他们长期保持对工作的热情与活力。
So just talk about how what you've learned about helping leaders in tech avoid burnout and feel energized and excited about their work for a long time.
是的。
Yeah.
首先，我很高兴你提到这个话题。
Well, first of all, I'm glad you brought it up.
这确实是个大问题。
It's a huge problem.
我记得在Stripe指导顶尖人才时的情况。
I remember when I was coaching top talent at Stripe.
Patrick Carlson非常重视留住顶尖人才，我和团队为技术部门前50名高管设计了一个项目。
Patrick Carlson is really committed to retaining top talent, and I created a program with my team for the top 50 executives in the tech side of the house.
我们分析了他们的敬业度评分。
And we looked at their engagement scores.
我们开展了辅导小组，看到这群极具创造力又敬业的领导者们当时如此疲惫，实在令人心酸。
We did coaching circles, and it was so sad to see how exhausted that group of incredibly creative and committed leaders was in that moment.
常见的情况是，那些最初充满无限激情与能力的人开始感到精疲力竭，仿佛多年来一直在不断推进。
And it's so common that people who start with incredible inspiration and incredible capacity start to feel like they've been pushing and pushing and pushing for years.
他们既要养育子女，又要领导团队，业务上还面临各种突发状况，却再也找不回当初的工作热情了。
They're parenting, they're leading, crazy things are happening to the business, and they just can't muster the same kind of motivation they once had.
我的客户中这种情况屡见不鲜。
And I see this with my clients all the time.
但我也见证过一些依然保持激情、精力充沛的人，他们似乎掌握着某种秘密能量源——就像特斯拉电池一样，能帮助他们度过重重挑战并乐在其中。
So I've also witnessed people who are still inspired and continually energetic and seem to have some secret well of, you know, some diesel battery, or I guess I should say a Tesla battery that helps them through really hard challenges and they're still having a good time.
因此我的理解是，当人们大部分时间都坚定地发挥自己的天赋和优势时，他们往往更有活力。
And so my what I make of that is that when people are in their gifts and their strengths firmly, most of the time, they have more energy.
当我们从事天生擅长且发自内心热爱的事情时，所有人都会更有干劲。
We all have more energy when we're operating from the things we naturally are good at and the things we innately love doing.
所以我努力帮助领导者们认识到，他们可以重新设计生活，让自己80%的时间都用在发挥天赋上。
So I try to help my leaders see that they can they can design their lives so they're spending 80% of their time in their gifts.
这听起来要求很高，因为你所处的环境需要你付出很多，尤其当你是一家大公司的高管时。
That seems really ambitious because you're stuck within a context that requires a lot of you, especially when you're a executive at a huge company.
但我也接触过一些创始人，他们怀着巨大热情和创业愿景创办公司，而他们的职责显然每六个月就会变化。
But I also interact with founders who started a company with great inspiration, an entrepreneurial vision, and their job is obviously changed every six months.
一旦开始融资、组建团队，特别是技术型创始人常常会沉迷于解决某个技术难题。
Once you fundraise, once you grow a team, and sometimes, especially technical founders will start solving a technical problem they're absolutely obsessed with.
他们花三年时间攻克难题，产品上市后却困于管理董事会和团队，甚至没意识到这已是完全背离他们优势的工作。
They spend three years doing it, the product ships, and then they're stuck managing a board and a team, and they don't even realize they're doing a completely different job than the one that played to their strengths.
所以我喜欢给的工具是：让人们花两周时间，每晚反思'今天哪五件事让我最有干劲？'
So one tool I like to give is for people to actually take two weeks and every night reflect on what's the five what are the five things today that gave me the most energy?
而最消耗我精力的五件事是什么？
And what are the five things that depleted my energy the most?
如果你坚持两周这样做并观察规律，就能分辨出哪些是我天赋所在的领域，哪些是让我疲惫不堪的束缚性事务——它们就像油箱的缓慢泄漏，日积月累地影响着你的日常精力值。
If you do that for two weeks and you look at patterns, you can tell what are the natural gifts that I'm living in and what are the things that I'm stuck doing that are exhausting, and they're just slowly it's like a slow leak in your gas tank that over time shows up in your daily amount of energy.
我完全认同这个建议非常有效。
I so believe this advice is so effective.
这实际上就是我离职时采用的方法。
This is the way I actually approached when I left my job.
我非常积极地实践了这一点。
I very actively did this.
我每天都会留意什么让我充满能量，什么消耗我的精力。
I paid attention every day what gave me energy and what sapped my energy.
然后我就多做赋能之事，少做耗能之事。
And let me just do more of the thing that gave me energy and more less of the thing that saps me.
我想探讨的是，虽然能改变的事情有限，但这个问题值得深入讨论。
I wanna talk about just like, you know, there's only so much you can change, but I wanna talk about that.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
最初的时候，我想着或许可以转型做顾问咨询类的工作。
And that and so initially, was like, maybe I'll become an adviser and consultant kind of person.
但实际上我发现那非常消耗我的精力。
I actually found that was super depleting for me.
有意思。
Interesting.
进行这些电话沟通和与人交谈，因为都是比较表面的，你知道，就是给出一些建议。
Doing these calls and talking to people because it's like surface level, you know, here are some things I would do.
这既无趣又无法让我充满能量。
And it was just so unexciting and energizing.
但写作却让我充满活力，这是我从未预料到的。
But writing was really energizing, which I never expected.
而且
And
我太喜欢这个了。
I love that.
这就是我所做的。
And that's what I did.
我只是跟随那个指引。
And I just followed that pole.
听起来你可能需要重新调整一下，Plenty。
And it sounds like maybe you need a refresh, Plenty.
哦，有意思。
Oh, interesting.
你知道，你总是可以更深入地调谐自己的天赋。
You know, there's always more attuning you can do to your gifts.
就像，你处于这种奇妙的状态——你显然是有理由成功的。
Like, you're in this amazing you've clearly been successful for a reason.
你正发挥着自己的优势，并关注那些能为你带来能量的事物。
You're in your strengths, and you're paying attention to what brings you energy.
我们一生中都可以不断这样做。
We can always do that more throughout our life.
我认为这是一个持续调整的过程，找到你的火花所在，保护并滋养那团火花。
I think it's a process of continually kind of tuning in to where your spark is and protecting that spark, feeding it.
我非常喜欢这个见解。
I love that insight.
这简直让我豁然开朗。
That just blew my mind.
那么具体来说，操作方法是连续两周每晚都这样做。
So very tactically, the way you would do this is for two weeks every night is the idea.
回顾当天并写下五件给你能量的事，以及五件消耗你能量的事。
Look at reflect back on that day and write down five things that gave you energy, five things that sappy of energy.
是的。
Yeah.
你可以尝试的活动实在太多了。
There's so many different activities you could use.
这是第一个方法。
So that's one.
我喜欢这个活动：用一封简单的邮件询问你生活中的5到10个人。
I like activity of actually asking five to 10 people in your life with a very simple email.
当我走进房间时，给人留下什么印象？
When I walk in the room, what shows up?
我的优势是什么？
What are my strengths?
我的天赋是什么？
What are the gifts?
如果你真的不了解这些，也从未在这个领域花过时间，这正是一个机会——去询问那些最了解你的人，你的核心天赋是什么，以及你何时最有灵感。
If you really don't know them and you haven't spent a lot of time in this realm, that's also an opportunity of actually asking the people who know you best what your core gifts are, and when when do you have the most inspiration.
你也可以翻看日历记录主题。
You can also look through your calendar and note themes.
好的。
Okay.
过去一个月里，我日程表上哪些事项是让我感到兴奋的？
Over the last month, what are all the things I look at on my calendar that I'm excited to do?
哪些事情是我害怕去做的？
What are the things I dread?
好的。
Okay.
为什么我会害怕那些事情？
Why do I dread those things?
这些事情有什么共同点？
What do those things have in common?
所以有各种方法可以帮助你找到自己的天赋领域。
So there's various ways you can get to kind of what is your zone of genius.
但我的建议是，请务必认真对待这件事。
But what my invitation is to take that really seriously.
这实际上需要冒险精神。
It actually takes risk taking.
需要有意围绕你的天赋来设计生活。
It takes intention to design your life around your gifts.
对于实际执行这一点有什么建议吗？
Is there any advice for actually doing this?
比如说有人觉得'是的，我得这么做'，但你知道，大多数人其实不会真的去做。
Say someone just like, yeah, I've gotta do this, but, you know, most people don't actually do this.
有没有可以提名一个伙伴来帮忙完成这件事？
Is there, like, a buddy you can nominate just help me do this?
比如，是否可以让行政助理协助处理这件事？
Is it like know, do have an EA that can maybe help you with this?
你见过什么有效的方法吗？
Is there anything you've seen?
问题。
Question.
是的。
Yeah.
我喜欢你的想法。
I love your ideas.
我认为你身边的人需要认同并了解你的天赋所在。
I think that the people around you need to be on board and know what are your gifts.
举个例子，当我担任人力资源业务伙伴时，我的上司接受了这一点，我向她解释过，嘿。
So for example, when I was an HR business partner, my boss bought into this, and I explained to her, hey.
我加入Stripe是因为我清楚自己将成为一名教练。
I started at Stripe because I actually know I'm gonna be a coach.
我不会成为人力资源主管，但我热爱与领导者共事。
I'm not gonna be ahead of HR, but I love working with leaders.
所以我会负责薪酬策略和组织架构设计，并协助产品与工程部门的领导者。
So I'm gonna, you know, do all the compensation strategy and all the org design, and I'm gonna help product and engineering leaders.
但我内心始终在打磨自己的教练技能。
But what I have in the back of my mind is I'm honing my coaching skills.
所以当这个关于顶尖人才留任的机会出现时，它与我在教练和学习发展领域的背景高度契合，于是她就把这个任务交给了我。
And so when this opportunity to work on top talent retention came about, it was much very aligned in in the realm of coaching and L and D background that I had, so she put me on that.
所以向身边的人明确表达这一点很有用。
So it's useful to name it to the people around you.
你的天赋是什么？
What are your gifts?
你的兴趣是什么？
What are your interests?
你真正渴望磨练哪些技能，以便它们能与你形成契约，帮助你并将你的天赋真正应用到业务需求中？
What skills are you really excited to hone so that they are, in a contract with you to help you and really apply your gifts to the business's needs?
这是一方面。
So that's one thing.
当你作为创始人或CEO时，当你有自主权去考虑周围角色的职责范围时，你才能真正围绕它来招聘。
When you're a founder or CEO, when when you have the autonomy to consider what are the role scopes around me, then you can really hire around it.
我合作过的一些CEO们是了不起的远见者，他们擅长战略规划、管理董事会和招聘等，但在团队管理方面却非常糟糕。
So I have some CEOs that I work with who are incredible visionaries, great strategists, really good at, you know, managing the board, hiring, etcetera, terrible at managing their team.
我讨厌这样。
I hate it.
所以他们聘请了一位首席运营官，两人搭档工作。
So they hire a COO, and they work in partnership.
他们有一位真正专注于内部事务的人。
They have one person who's really internally focused.
他们可以专注于外部事务。
They get to be externally focused.
这样效果很好。
That works well.
这是一种共生关系。
It's a symbiotic relationship.
如果你能诚实地面对自己的优势和劣势，就能开始围绕这些进行管理。
If you're honest about your strengths and your weaknesses, then you can start to manage around them.
本期节目由Persona赞助播出——这个经过验证的身份平台帮助组织进行用户注册、防范欺诈并建立信任。
This episode is brought to you by Persona, the verified identity platform helping organizations onboard users, fight fraud, and build trust.
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