Ludology 348 剧本中的唯一谋杀案

欢迎收听《游戏学》，一档探讨游戏本质的播客节目。

Welcome to Ludology, a podcast about the why of gaming.

本期《游戏学》由Blake Hobda、Elizabeth Hargreaves和Joe Pilkus制作。第348期节目《剧本杀命案》，我是Sen Feng Lim。今天我们将对话加拿大首家英文剧本杀门店zed nine mystery Jubensha俱乐部。在深入介绍zed nine之前，我猜很多听众可能从未听说过'剧本杀'这个词。我们很荣幸能向各位介绍这种即将风靡北美的全新娱乐形式。

This episode of Ludology is produced by Blake Hobda, Elizabeth Hargreaves, and Joe Pilkus. Ludology episode three forty eight, only murders in the script. I'm Sen Feng Lim, and today on the show, we're talking to zed nine mystery Jubensha club, who are Canada's first English language Jubensha store. Before we get too far into what zed nine does, I I bet many of our listeners have never even heard the term Jubensha. So we're excited to introduce many of you to what we think will be something that starts to sweep through North America.

这个术语英文直译大致是'谋杀剧本'或'剧本谋杀'，属于真人角色扮演推理游戏类型，融合了沉浸式剧场、社交推理和密室逃脱桌游等元素。玩家扮演详细设定好的剧本角色，参与从经典侦探剧到高概念奇幻剧的各种剧情，通过数小时的游戏逐步解开谜团。参与人数从一两人到十二、十四人不等。

So it's in English roughly translated as murder script, scripted murder. And it's a genre of live action role playing murder mystery games that blends immersive theater, social deduction, and some escape room board game kind of elements. Players adopt characters that are detailed and scripted, and they run through scenarios ranging from classic whodunit to high stake fantasy dramas. And the mystery unravels over a multi hour sessions. And the number of participants can be from, you know, one, two, the way up to, like, twelve, fourteen, whatever.

这种游戏规模可大可小，约十到十五年前起源于中国。剧本杀迅速成为文化现象，如今在中国大陆、台湾、日本等地已有数千家专门场馆运营着大量独特剧本，吸引着全国数百万玩家，并很快获得主流关注。现在它正走向世界。

So it goes from very small to very big, scales up. And these types of games really originated in China about, you know, ten, fifteen years ago. And Jibensha rapidly grew into a cultural phenomenon that now has thousands of dedicated venues hosting multiple unique scripts across China, Taiwan, Japan, all over. And it draws millions of players nationwide and quickly grew to gain attention in mainstream China. And now it's spreading to the rest of the world.

这就是你们zed nine mystery Juventia俱乐部的意义所在——你们提供了北美曾经几乎找不到的英文翻译剧本和专业主持人，为英语世界打开了这个充满活力的游戏类型。你们正在围绕这种互动叙事游戏构建新社群。因此我们《游戏学》邀请zed nine来探讨剧本杀的本质、相关文化及社群，以及玩家能从中获得怎样的体验。

So that's where you guys come in. Zed nine mystery, Juventia Club, and you are offering something that once was almost impossible to find in North America, translated scripts and trained hosts that can run a scripted story in English. You are really opening up a dynamic genre to the English speaking audiences, and I think that is wonderful. You're building new community around this interactive narrative gaming experience. And so we at Ludology thought we'd bring zed nine on to discuss what exactly Jubensha is, the culture, the community around it, and what players might expect from an experience.

欢迎来到节目。

So welcome to the show.

感谢邀请。

Thank you for having us.

你们最初是什么时候接触到剧本杀的？是什么启发你们开设了加拿大首家英文剧本杀门店？

So when did you all first discover Jubensha personally, and what inspired you to launch what is Canada's first English language Juventa store?

我们最初是家只提供中文剧本的门店。但随着市场竞争加剧，我们开始寻求新的发展方向。早期有些顾客中文水平有限，主要依赖翻译软件和朋友帮助来玩本。这段经历促使我们开始自行翻译英文剧本，最终更进一步自主创作英文剧本，才有了今天的成就。

So we actually started out our business as a Juventa shop offering only Chinese language games. However, we soon noticed increasing competition in the area, which pushed us to find a new way to expand. In the early days, we had some customers who actually spoke of minimal Chinese and actually dependent on translation apps to play, often with the help from their friends as well. So that experience kind of inspired us to translate our own games into English. Eventually, we decided to take a step further and produce our own Juventia games, and that's how we got here and where we are today.

开场时我们对剧本杀做了基本介绍，现在想听听你们如何描述剧本杀？比如你会怎么向完全没接触过实景角色扮演游戏的新人介绍它？

We did a real general description of Jubensha in our opening, and I'd love to hear how you all describe Jubensha. Maybe how would you describe it to, you know, someone who is brand new, who's never heard of live action role playing games before? What would you tell them?

说到剧本杀，我认为它融合了谋杀之谜和实景角色扮演的元素。重点在于80%的推理解谜和20%的角色扮演，整体设定非常紧凑沉浸。玩家会全情投入在搜集线索、破解案件和揭开谜团的过程中。

So when it comes to, like, Jubilee Shock games, I would say Jubilee Shock games combines elements of murder mystery games and also LARP. So but the main focus was still beyond the mystery solving part, which I would say it's roughly, like, 80% of mystery solving and 20% of role play. So it's sort of like this kind of, like, setup. And then for Jubilee, games are much more, like, intense and immersive. So everyone is fully engaged in uncovering clues and solving the case and figuring out, like, the mystery, what the mystery is.

游戏中仍鼓励角色扮演，因为演绎角色能让体验更丰富有趣。通常玩家会先通过角色扮演理解人物和故事背景，随着剧情展开，他们会更专注于解谜并欣赏游戏的复杂性。

Roleplaying is still encouraged in games because acting in the character can make the whole experience richer and more enjoyable. So overall, I would say in a Jubensha game, player usually begin by roleplaying their characters, and they are trying to understand the characters first and also the story setup, the background. And after that, when the plot starts to unfold, they they become more absorbed in solving the mystery and appreciating the game's complexity. I I would say that.

听起来它融合了多种元素，整合成一个精致的整体。在你们看来，剧本杀与传统的谋杀之谜晚宴有何不同？90年代初这类晚宴很流行，你们可能还没出生。当时在北美，甚至会收到包含侦探开场白的录音带。

It sounds like it combines elements of a lot of different things, and it's wrapped up into this, like, one neat little package. In your view, what sets Jubensha apart from maybe more traditional forms of murder mystery dinners? Those were huge in, like, the early nineties. I don't know if you guys were even alive then. But in Canada, in America, during the early nineties, there were these you'd even get, a a cassette tape A cassette tape that would like read out the first introduction from like the detective who locked you in the building, and was trying to solve this murder mystery.

你会邀请5-10位好友参加聚餐，大家角色扮演并破解谜案。实际上解谜过程更像是搞怪娱乐的陪衬。而现在除了剧本杀，还有密室逃脱和《龙与地下城》这类传统桌游。

And you'd invite you'd send invitations to like five, ten of your best friends to come over for a dinner and it's like a potluck dinner. You'd make dinner. You dress up in character, and you'd have this mystery to solve. And really, the mystery solving was kind of, like, secondary to the goofy fun that you had. But there's those, there's escape rooms, there's and there's traditional tabletop RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons.

剧本杀与那些活动相比有什么不同？为什么我要选择剧本杀而不是其他？

How does Jubensha differ from each and every one of those things? Why do I wanna do this instead of any of those?

是的。正如Felix提到的，剧本杀与传统LARP游戏在三个方面有很大区别：游戏风格、时长以及整体内容。我们认为剧本杀更像是上述三者的结合体——融合了谋杀之谜晚宴、密室逃脱和桌面RPG的元素。它首先从传统谋杀之谜晚宴扩展而来，但将大量密室逃脱和桌游元素融入故事中。因此每个角色都有更丰富的个人故事和目标，适合追求更长时间沉浸式体验的玩家，而不仅仅是两小时的晚餐谋杀游戏。

Yeah. So as Felix mentioned, so they differ a lot from traditional LARP games in three ways, which is the game style, the length of play, and also the overall content. And in our opinion, juvenshai is more like a combination of all three things mentioned above, which is a combination of murder mystery dinners, escape rooms, and tabletop RPGs. It first of all, it expands from the traditional murder mystery dinner, but incorporates a lot of the escape room and board game elements into the story. So each character has a much richer personal story and goal that would actually make sense for a player who want a longer and more immersive experience rather than just a two hour game, let's say, during a dinner murder mystery game.

一场典型的剧本杀游戏大约需要四小时。例如，某些线索可能基于身处不同房间的玩家，这借鉴了密室逃脱和桌游元素。部分剧本杀还包含阵营对抗，玩家可能在故事中相互对抗，这时就需要掷骰子——这个机制其实源自DND等桌游。

A typical Juventura game takes about four hours. For example, some clues could be based on different players who are in different rooms, which is kind of incorporated from escape room and board game elements. While some Juventura games involve faction battles and you might fight other players in the story, then there will be dice being rolled. So that element is actually kind of from D and D and from other board games. Yeah.

当我听到'剧本'这个词时，感觉一切都像是既定轨道上的引导，结局似乎早已注定。你们如何在预设叙事引导玩家与给予创作自由之间取得平衡？剧本杀游戏是怎么做到的？

When I hear the word script, it kinda sounds like everything's, you know, on rails and guided, and there's, like, a foregone conclusion. How do you balance guiding players through, like, a preset narrative while allowing them some creative freedom? How does the Juventura game do that?

嗯，这是个很好的问题。直到现在我们仍在寻找这两者之间的平衡点，不希望走向任何一个极端。

Mhmm. Yeah. This is a very good question. And even up to now, we're still trying to find that fine line that balances between both of these elements. We don't wanna be in the extreme of either one.

首先我们可以看看这两个极端：传统谋杀之谜游戏是完全引导玩家叙事的，而另一个极端给予玩家绝对自由的典型就是DND游戏——玩家在游戏中几乎可以为所欲为。剧本杀试图融合这两种元素，可能略微偏向叙事引导，但仍给予玩家足够自由空间。与DND不同，每场剧本杀都有完整的故事线和独特机制，不同剧本杀游戏之间差异巨大，因此每场游戏都非常独特。

So first of all, we can talk about the two extremes of these elements. So guiding players through the narrative would be the traditional murder mystery games, while the other line on the other extreme is giving players absolute freedom would be a typical D and D session where players can literally do anything in a game. Is trying to incorporate both of these elements, maybe slightly leaning towards still guiding players through a narrative, but definitely still giving players enough freedom so they do not feel too restricted. So unlike D and D, Jibensha still has a whole skyline and a mechanic to each game that can be drastically different from other Jibensha games. So in other words, each Jibensha game is very unique.

所以必须要有主持人手册来引导玩家，因为每场游戏对老玩家来说也都是全新的。比如DND玩家虽然每场游戏规则相同，但剧本杀在这方面很独特。给予玩家过多自由反而会影响游戏进程和节奏。

So there must be a guidebook to allow hosts to follow and guide players through as each game is a brand new game, even to the most experienced players. So for instance, D and D is more like a game that players can play each game, but they know the rules for each game. But the D and game is kind of unique in this aspect. So giving players too much freedom in this aspect could hinder the progress and the flow. So yeah.

所以我们可以说它目前仍处于一种倾向性的中间状态，大约70%到80%的程度倾向于引导玩家体验叙事。

So we will say it's still kind of in the middle of a leaning, maybe 70%, 80% towards guiding players through the narrative.

我听说过也读过一些，Jubinshaw。其中涉及许多潜在的敏感话题，根据玩家来自的国家和文化背景，可能会让他们觉得非常不同、暴力或其他不适。对吧？那么你们采取了哪些策略来应对游戏中可能出现的冲突或敏感话题？是否在游戏中加入了警示或安全工具？

I've heard and I've I've read a few, Jubinshaw. And there's a lot of potentially sensitive topics that depending on what country you're from, what culture you're in, might strike people as very different or violent or whatever. Right? And so what strategies have you guys come up with to manage the conflicts or sensitive topics that might arise during gameplay? And do you incorporate warnings or safety tools into your games?

是的，我们非常重视这个问题，因为我们希望顾客在游戏过程中能感到完全放松。毕竟他们是来娱乐的，不是来面对任何压力或敏感话题的。为此，我们正在开发一个类似于电影分级制度的系统——虽然我记不清具体分级名称了，但方向是这样的。

Yeah. So we take this matter very seriously as we want our customers to feel completely comfortable during their gameplay experience. After all, they're here to have fun, not to express any kind of pressure or or sensitive topics whatsoever. So to achieve this, we're actually developing a system that is similar to the movie rating system. So in terms of, rated r or rated I forgot the the actual names, but that's what we're developing.

由于Gebenshire游戏常涉及谋杀相关剧情，我们在情节选择和措辞上格外谨慎。我们竭力避免种族问题、性取向和政治话题等敏感内容。若存在相关主题，会在游戏介绍中明确标注，让玩家开始前就清楚内容。这些信息也会公布在官网上，这样玩家购买前就能了解可能涉及的主题——当然最好没有。

So since Gebenshire games often involve murder related storylines, we take extra care in the selected plots and wording. We make every effort to actually avoid sensitive topics such as racial issues, sexual orientation, and political topics. In cases where such themes are present, we will clearly indicate them in the game introduction so that players know exactly what to expect before they begin. And we also have this information on our web page. So before purchasing our games, they would know what kind of topics would be involved if there are any, and hopefully not.

明白了。所以你们会在不剧透的前提下，提前给出一些内容提示和注意事项，对吧？

Okay. So you're giving them some prewarning, some notes about what might be in there without without spoiling the whole mystery, of course. Right?

是的。

Yes.

那么在改编这些剧本时——毕竟它们最初来自中文国家——你们遇到的最大挑战是什么？不仅要适应语言差异，还有文化差异，这完全是另一个市场。

So in terms of of writing these and adapting them, you know, because we've said they originally came from Chinese language countries. What are the biggest challenges that you find in adapting and launching Juvenshah scripts for a completely different market? Not only the language, but the culture. It's just different.

是的，确实如此。这也是我们每次开发或发布新游戏前都会自问的问题。我们希望保留相似的机制和流程，将Jibunshai引入英语市场，因为这是一款非常有趣且具有革命性的游戏，我们不想改变其核心机制。但同时我们想调整内容和故事，使其更适应英语社区。

Yeah. For sure. So this is also a question that we try to ask ourselves every time before we produce or launch a new game. We want to adapt similar mechanics and and the flow to incorporate Jibunshai into the English speaking market because it is a very fun and revolutionary game that we don't want to like change the mechanics. But while we want to change the content and the story to make it more suitable for the English speaking community.

由于剧本杀在中国已发展近十年，形成了许多流派，但某些流派可能不适合西方社区，比如言情类或与中国古代宫廷相关的题材，例如皇帝故事，这些可能不太适用。

Since Jubensha has been established for about almost ten years in China, it has a lot of genres, but certain genres might not work for the Western community, such as romance or genres that relate to the imperial palace about the Chinese ancient, like, emperors, which may not really apply.

大家都喜欢R3。来吧。是的。

Everybody likes r three. Come on. Yeah.

如果未来有足够兴趣的话，这确实可能成为发展方向。但目前，有些玩家可能缺乏相关背景知识，难以理解剧本内容。不过我们会尽力创作符合本地文化的故事情节，同时保留Jibbitja的核心机制。

That that could be a future thing actually if there's actually enough interest. Yeah. But as of now, maybe some players that don't really have the knowledge of that that they might not understand what the script is is saying. Yeah. So but we try our best to create a storyline that fits the culture here and while also keeping the mechanics of Jibbitja.

所以或许选择谋杀案或时尚题材的故事。我们可能会考虑30个左右。

So may maybe stories with murders or or fashions or yeah. We might talk about 30.

是啊，这似乎具有普适性。某种程度上这是个可悲的事实——谋杀确实全球通用，各位。

Yeah. That seems kinda universal. It's that's a kind of that's almost a sad statement about, you know, the world. Oh, yeah. Murder is pretty universal, guys.

比如，人人都会谋杀。话说回来，你们如何决定将哪些作品纳入商店目录并投入时间精力翻译？将内容从一种语言本地化为另一种语言，不仅要处理文字本身，还要考虑所有文化内涵，这个过程是怎样的体验？

Like, everybody murders. Anyway, how do you decide what titles that you're going to add to the store's catalog and take time and effort to translate? And what is it like to localize something from one language to another with all those, you know, just the words, but also the cultural implications of all those things? What's that like?

是的。比如当我们选择将某个剧本引入我们的商店，或是为其他客户托管时，我们总是倾向于那些拥有更深刻故事、适中挑战难度以及流畅玩法的作品。这些就是我们选择托管和推荐给客户游戏时考虑的主要因素。不过当我们最初进入英语市场时，我们的策略有所不同——我们更关注那些具有中立普世主题的剧本。

Yeah. So when we choose to, like like, for example, a certain script to include to, like, our store or, to, like, host it for, like, other customers, we always go with the ones who has, which has, like, deeper deeper stories with a decent, like, challenge level and also the gameplay, how smooth it goes. So these are, like, the main factors that we consider when we choose, like, which games to, to host and to, like, give it to the customers. So after, like but when we choose when we started, like, in the English speaking market, our approach is a bit different. So we are more focused on those scripts that has, like, neutral and universal themes.

这有两个原因：首先能避免潜在的冲突或误解；其次能让不同文化背景的玩家更容易理解故事。我们认为这点非常重要，因为当玩家能轻松理解背景时，这类游戏的文化理解成本会大幅降低，玩家就不必花费大量时间去理解某些特定短语的含义，可以直接沉浸到剧情中。

So there's two reasons for it. Like, first, it helps to avoid any, like, potential conflicts or misunderstandings. And the second thing is that it makes the story easier for other people, especially from different cultural backgrounds. It's easier for them to understand. We think this is a really important thing because if the players can easily understand the background that like, the cultural cost for a game like this to understand this will be, like, way cheaper so that peep don't have to spend a lot of time, like, understanding what, like for example, like a certain phrase, what that meaning is, they don't have to, they can just dive into the story.

我们目前也在与一些西方本土创作者和作家合作，让他们基于自身文化背景进行创作。毕竟我们来自不同文化背景，要书写不熟悉的内容确实很困难。

And we're also currently collaborating with some local western, like, creators and writers, So we'll let them try to write their story based on their own cultural backgrounds because we have different cultural backgrounds. It'll be really hard for, like, some like us to write about something that we are not very familiar with.

当然。

Sure.

噢对，我认为这能帮助我们在英语市场更好地扩展，并努力让游戏给当地玩家带来更真实、更有共鸣的体验。

Oh, yeah. So I think this help us expand better in the English market and make and try to make the game feel more authentic and more relatable to local players.

你还提到存在不同题材对吧？并不总是关于谋杀案——虽然经常是谋杀题材，但有时也会涉及爱情元素。

You also mentioned that there are different genres. Right? It's not just always about murder. It often is about murder, but not always. And sometimes there's some romance.

有时还会涉及宫廷权谋和戏剧冲突。能详细说说剧本杀的不同题材分类吗？

Sometimes there's courtly intrigue and drama. Can you tell us more about the different genres of Jubensha?

哦，对。剧本杀游戏主要有三种类型，或者说三大类。第一种是谋杀解谜类游戏，第二种是阵营对战类，还有一种是机器人题材类。

Oh, yeah. Sure. So there are three main types, like three main genres of Jubensha games. So we have, like, the murder, like, mystery solving games, that's a type. We have a faction battle type, and we also have, like, the robots type.

这就是三大主要类型。解谜类游戏是最常见也最受欢迎的。在这类游戏中，玩家通常共享一个共同目标，即揭露谋杀案真相，拼凑出故事原貌。不过这些游戏内部还有更细致的分类差异。比如有些解谜游戏侧重找出凶手，玩家需要通过分析作案手法（MO）来推进。

So these are the three main types. So for the mystery solving games, are the most common and popular? So in these games, player usually share a common goal to uncover the murder and try to piece together what actually happened in the story. There are still, like, more detailed, like, differences be in these games. So, like, for example, some of the mystery solving games could be focusing on finding out the murder, and you could work through, like, finding out what the MO is.

有些可能涉及高难度作案手法，比如密室杀人案或客厅谜案这类。还有一类游戏需要玩家先识破凶手或NPC的阴谋，否则无法找出真凶。当然也有其他方式，比如单纯通过排除法锁定凶手。游戏中还包含故事重构元素，因此解谜类游戏其实有各种不同的侧重点。

Some could be, like, very difficult MO's, like a locked room mystery or you call it parlor room mystery, something like that. And there's also, like, games that you're trying to figure out what the murderer or what the NPC's scheme is. So if you don't figure out what the scheme is, there's no way you can find out the murderer. And there are other, like, ways, for example, like, just simply using process elimination to find out who the murderer is. And there's also, like, story rebuilding aspects of the games in it, so it really have it really has, like, different types of, like, focus in mystery solving games.

至于阵营对战类游戏，则更接近《龙与地下城》的风格。玩家通常相互对抗，努力完成个人任务。但这类游戏的故事性比其他类型更丰富，因为需要玩家了解剧情发展和角色背景。每位玩家都有独立目标，比如获取特定物品、在战斗结束时存活或保护某人。

So yeah. And for faction battle games, on the other hand, are, like, closer to, like, D and D type of games. So players often face off against each other and try to they are trying to complete their personal missions. But in faction battle games, the stories are, like, way richer than other types because you want the players to know, like, what the story is actually going on and understand the character more. Each player will have their own objectives such as like obtaining like a certain item or like surviving during the end of battle or like protecting someone.

这些就是你的目标，不同的目标和战斗结果会导致不同结局。

So these could be your goals and different goals and different combat outcomes will lead to different endings.

这真是太有意思了。

So That's fascinating.

是的。玩家会希望为自己或在乎的角色争取好结局。所以在这类游戏中，尤其是谋杀解谜元素并不那么重要，或者说玩家不会觉得找出凶手很关键，因为他们总有个人目标要完成。他们清楚自己要做什么，谋杀案可能对他们无关紧要。最后不得不提的还有恋爱题材类游戏。

Yeah. So players want to, like, have a good ending for themselves or for someone who they care in the story. So in these games, the mystery, like, the mystery, like, especially the murder aspect of of the game is not that important, or I would say players won't feel that important to, like, figure out who the murderer is because they all always have something for themselves. Like, they they know what they want to do, so maybe the murder thing is not that important to them. And finally, I will have to say there's the romantic game.

我不会深入讨论游戏的这部分内容。在中国市场，他们以剧本精美著称，情感故事非常打动人心。玩家经常在阅读剧本和整个游戏过程中感动落泪。我玩过几款这类游戏，故事确实很棒。

I won't go too deep into this this part of the game. So in the Chinese market, they're known for, like, their scripts are, like, really beautifully written. They are, like, emotionally very, like, powerful stories. So player often find themselves moved to tears while reading the script and during, like, the whole gameplay. So, like, I played, like, a couple of them and really the stories are really good.

我哭了，真的哭了。不过没关系。我觉得这些故事确实很好，但目前我们暂时不打算制作这类游戏，因为它们更偏向文化底蕴。

I cried. I cried. So That's okay. I I think the stories are really good, but currently, I would have to say, like, we're not trying to, like, produce these type of games because these are, like, more culture based. It really

加拿大还没准备好接受这个，现在还不是时候。

You're not ready for this, Canada. Not yet.

是的，我们最初也是这么想的。所以我们决定先不要涉足那个类型，从常规内容开始，之后再逐步拓展。

Yeah. That that's what we thought in the beginning. So, like, we'll try to say, like, let's don't move to that genre first, and let's just do with the normal things first, and then let's move on to

你们最终有计划引入恋爱题材吗？

Do you do you plan on in introducing the romance genre eventually?

我们可以尝试，但这很大程度上取决于英语市场玩家的理解程度，毕竟这类游戏完全以故事为核心。它们是100%的角色扮演，几乎没有解谜元素，重点在于体验。

We could try. We could try, but it really depends on, like, what the people in, like, the English market, like, understands especially because it's it's all about story. And for those games, it's it's, like, a 100% role play. So there's little to none mystery to solve. It's really about the experience.

有意思，真有意思。

Interesting. Interesting.

有意思。对于这类游戏来说，故事性确实需要非常出色。我们可能会尝试，但会先从最初的两个开始。

Interesting. Story is like you need a very good story for for a game like this. So we might try, but we'll start with the first two first.

是啊，现在这让我很想尝试这类游戏，因为太吸引人了。我经常和同事讨论亚洲叙事与西方叙事的差异，特别是在研究叙事学和游戏时。确实存在很多不同之处，我能理解为什么你可能还不想引入这些元素。不过你提到浪漫题材的文笔确实很优美。

Yeah. Now it makes me wanna try one of those because that's fascinating. I I often talk about the differences in Asian storytelling versus Western storytelling with, you know, my other colleagues when we're talking about narratology and games. And it is there's a lot of difference, I can see why you might not want to try to introduce that yet. But, you know, you mentioned that, you know, the romance genre has, like, beautiful writing.

你认为哪些特质能定义高质量剧本？是故事本身？游戏机制？还是其他制作价值？真正吸引玩家、让他们觉得'这就是我想玩的游戏'的关键是什么？

What qualities do you think define, like, a high quality script? Is it the story? Is it the mechanisms? Is it other production values? What really draws an audience in that says, this is the game I wanna play?

或者他们会向朋友推荐说：'你应该去体验那个剧本的特定故事线'。

Or they talk about it to their friends, they say, you should go play that specific story of that script.

对，我觉得这是个很好的问题。我认为高品质的三连发游戏总是始于精彩的故事。这个故事要能吸引玩家，激发他们的好奇心并产生情感共鸣。

Yeah. So I think that's a very good question. I think a high quality triple shot game always starts with a great story. So it's a story that pulls players in. It makes them curious and gets them emotionally involved.

所以我觉得故事会让玩家想要深入挖掘我们在游戏中埋藏的所有线索和秘密。能够激发玩家的情感连接非常重要。其次，无论是什么类型的连发游戏，无论是侧重解谜还是围绕战斗机制设计，所有元素都应该服务于故事。在我看来，无论剧情如何发展，在解谜游戏中弹药系统怎样设计，一切都是为了故事服务。

So I I think the story will keep the players like, they want to dig deeper into all the hidden clues and secrets we've built in the game. Being able to, like, spark that emotional connection in player is super important. And secondly, like, no matter what kind of dripping shot game it is, whether it's, like, focused on mystery solvings or building around, like, combat mechanics, everything is the everything in the design should serve the story. That's what I think. And so no matter, like, how the plot is, what like, in the mystery solving game, how the ammo is, everything is for the story.

没错。

Yeah.

我读到过，某些剧本的作者会非常排他，决定谁能运行它、在哪里运行。有时他们不希望任何人自行运行。这种现象至今还存在吗？还是说情况已经开始改变，人们普遍接受其他人可以运行任何游戏了？

So much so that I've I've read that for certain scripts, the writer can be very exclusive and decides, you know, who can run it, where it can be run. Sometimes they don't want anybody to run it by themselves. Is this still something that happens to this day or have things begun to change and be more generally accepted that other people can run any game or whatever?

好的，这是个很大的问题。这种现象在中国市场确实存在，通常被称为城市限定剧本或独家版本，他们就是这么称呼的。

Okay. So this is a big question. I'll have to this phenomenon does, like, exist in the Chinese market. So it is usually called a city exclusive script or, like, an exclusive edition. That's what they call it.

这种现象主要有两个原因。首先是市场驱动因素。随着玩家体验越来越多的日本剧本游戏，他们开始追求更复杂、更具吸引力、更沉浸式的体验。为了满足这种需求，剧本作者和创作者会投入更多精力创作情节更深刻、玩法更精妙的故事。同时，店主们也会努力提升主持人（RDMs）的质量，并升级硬件、软件和整体配置。

So there are two main reasons why this happened. So the first reason is market driven. So as players experience more and more Japan shot games, they start wanting something more more complex, more engaging, and more immersive. So try to meet that demand, script writers and those creators will try to put more, like, effort into creating deeper and more sophisticated stories with strong stronger gameplay. And at the same time, store owners will also try to improve their quality of their hosts or like RDMs, as well as try to upgrade their hardware, software, and overall setup.

正是这些因素促成了这些特殊限定剧本的出现。第二个原因是中国有很多Jupytershire门店。举个例子，比如我的店里有50款不同的游戏，而隔壁你的店也有50款游戏。

So that would that's what allowed these special, like, limited edition scripts to appear. And the second reason for that is we there's a lot of Jupytershire stores in in China. So let me bring up an example. Okay. So for example, I have, like, 50 different games in my store, and you have a store next door to me and you also have 50 games.

我们完全拥有相同的50款游戏。那么问题就变成了：我要怎样才能吸引顾客来我的店而不是你的店呢？

We have the totally exact, like, the 50 games are exactly the same. So the question be becomes, like, how are you gonna like, how how am I gonna attract customers to come to my store instead of yours?

对吧？

Right?

费利克斯，你是想让我闭嘴吗？你就是这个意思？

You're you're trying to shut me down, Felix? That Is what you're

想做什么？

trying to do?

我是说，竞争会很激烈。

I mean, there's gonna be competition.

好的。好的。

Okay. Okay.

你知道，虽然我不该这么说，但中国人确实喜欢一窝蜂做同样的事，所以会同时冒出很多类似的店铺，竞争会很激烈。对吧？而且中国人确实喜欢在这些生意上竞争。这会让店主们更关注游戏之外的其他方面。

You know, like, I shouldn't be saying this, but the Chinese really do like doing something all like, everyone wants to do the same thing together, so, like, there's gonna be a lot of, like, stores coming up at the same time, and there's gonna be competition. Right? Yeah. And the Chinese do like to compete in those businesses. So it won't make the owners try to focus on something more other than the game itself.

比如说DM的技能，店铺的装修，甚至是定价策略这些。

Like, for example, like, the skills of the DM, like your, like, your renovation to the store, or, like, maybe even, like, pricing.

你提到了硬件和软件。剧本杀会涉及哪些硬件和软件呢？

You mentioned hardware and software. What kind of hardware and software might be involved in a script?

要我说的话，硬件方面可以准备很多实物道具。嗯。就是那些能让人感觉更身临其境的物品。

Well, I would say, like, hardware, like, you can bring up a lot of, like, items, like, real items Mhmm. That's close or, a I would say, like, items that that make people feel, like, more immersive and more So

像是道具吗？

like props?

对，差不多是这类东西。

Yeah, something like that.

好的。

Okay.

就像那样。软件主要会涉及，比如说，DM技巧这类东西，还有一些对剧本本身的改动。有些商店会这样做来让游戏更具吸引力，玩家会觉得，哇，这游戏比其他人口中的要好得多。他们还会做些其他调整。

Like that. Software will mainly be like, let's say, DM skills, something like that, and some other, like, changes to the script itself. So there are store stores that does that to make the game more attractive, and players will feel, oh, yeah. I feel like this game is way better than what other people thought about the game. Like, they do some other changes to it.

就市场竞争力而言，他们最初是从城市专属剧本开始的。为了让不同商店拥有不同剧本。比如我们现在在温哥华，假设这里有10家店，某个制作人开始生产游戏，可能10家里只有3家能拿到这个剧本。这样不同商店就有不同剧本，从而专注于不同类型的游戏。是的。

So in terms of, like, the, I would say, competitiveness in the market, so they started with the city exclusive scripts. So just to make different stores to have, like, different scripts. So for example, like because we currently are in Vancouver, like, let's just say we have 10 stores here, and some producer started to, like, produce a game, and maybe only three out of the 10 stores will get that script from it. And so that different stores will have different scripts, so they will have different focus on different types of games. Yeah.

但这种现象也存在问题，因为这种市场其实有点奇怪，更像是卖方市场而非买方市场，因为制作方掌控一切。店主必须从制作方那里购买产品，他们控制着谁能拿到什么样的剧本。如果是个好剧本，大家都想买，这就衍生出一些问题。我不想深入讨论这个，因为实在太复杂了。

But in this kind of phenomenon, there are also some problems because it's actually quite a, I would say, a little bit weird for the market like this because it's more like a seller's market instead of a buyer's market because the producers controls, like, everything. Like, for sole owners, they have to buy the product from the producer. So, like, they control, like, who to get, like, what kind of scripts. So if there's if it's a really good script, then everyone wants to buy it, so there's also some problems that come comes up with it. I don't wanna get into too deep with into this because it's a really complicated thing.

我不认为

I don't think

我们会有，比如说，

we'll have, like,

足够的时间来讨论整个事情。

enough time to talk about the whole thing.

我们确实有时间。

We have time yeah.

如果我们稍后有时间，肯定可以讨论，比如，这个问题以及我们可能面临的其他问题。但如果是针对英国市场，我们认为不会这么做。

If we have time later, like, we could definitely discuss, like, the issues and some other problems that we might face in this. But if it's for the English market, we we don't think we're gonna do this.

而且，我不认为你们在

And Well, I don't think you have the same exclusivity problem with

对。对。对。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

但我不认为会突然冒出一大堆商店，对吧？

But I don't think there's gonna be a, like, a bunch of stores come out come out of nowhere, like, suddenly. Right?

我知道如果有的话，那肯定是在多伦多。

I know if if there are, it'll be, you know, in Toronto.

对，对。

Yeah. Yeah.

所以，我们明白了。你之前提到正在与本地编剧合作。从概念到完成剧本，开发原创剧本杀故事线的创作流程是怎样的？具体是怎么操作的？

So, yeah, we get it. We get it. You mentioned before that you're working with local script writers. What is the creative approach to develop an original Jubensha storyline from concept to the finished script? What does that actually look like?

是的，我们目前正在合作创作自己的故事，团队三人协作完成，同时也在与英国作家合作。在我们看来，开发游戏时，我们通常从一个简单的剧情梗概开始，往往只是一句话。比如，故事讲的是爱丽丝去城堡之类的。然后我们确定角色数量以及游戏时长，这为我们提供了头脑风暴和扩展的基础。接下来，我们需要构思六个剧情分支，因为游戏里会有六个角色。

So, yeah, we're currently working on our own stories that three of us work collaboratively, and we are also collaborating with authors from UK. So in our opinion, when developing a game, we actually start with a simple plot that often is just a single sentence. Like, the story is about Alice going to the castle, like that kind of stuff. From there on, we determine the number of characters as well as the amount of time allotted for that game, and that creates a platform for us to brainstorm and expand. And our next step would be the fact that instead of having one plot, we would need six plots because that kind of fits into the six characters that we're gonna have within the game.

当叙事框架完全成型后，我们就开始设计游戏机制。比如会有多少张线索卡？主持人如何参与？是否有特殊规则？是否会提供道具（比如我们允许使用的那些）？

Once we once the narrative is kind of fully developed at that point, we move on to kind of designing the game that involves the mechanics. So how many clue cards would there be? How is the DM or the host is gonna be involved? Are there any special rules? Will you have any props, for example, that we do permit?

会有地图吗？这类问题都属于机制设计范畴。这就是我们确立游戏机制的过程。之后，我们开始编写手册，主要是主持人指南，说明如何实际运行游戏。

Is there gonna be a map? That kind of stuff. These are all mechanic related. That that's where we kind of establish what's for the mechanics. And after that, we start developing the manual, essentially, like, the guide the host guide of how to actually run the game.

只有当我对所有组件都完全满意时，我们才会进入生产阶段。此外，在那个阶段，我们实际上还会邀请一些朋友过来进行测试，以确保一切无误。总会出现一些愚蠢的错误，比如拼写错误，这很常见。但在最终阶段这些都不会出现，然后我们就开始进行包装。

Only I work completely satisfied with all of these components, we move on to the production phase. Also, during that phase, we also actually hire one of our some of our friends to come over and do some beta testing just to make sure that everything is right. There's a, like, silly mistakes, like typos, which does happen quite often. Just none of that appears in our final stage, and then we set it off for our own packaging.

哦，所以这实际上不是一件快速完成的事，但步骤也不算特别多，因为主要是故事内容对吧？然后购买一些道具来突出故事。

Oh, so it's it's actually it's a not a quick thing, but it doesn't have, like, tons and tons of steps because mostly it's story. Right? And then a a few props that get purchased to accentuate the story.

是啊，听起来像是个快速的过程。

Yeah. It it it sounds like a quick process.

但其实不是。

But it's not.

确实不是，因为内容创作有时会卡在某个情节上好几天。你就是想不出合理的点子。而有时深夜灵感突然涌现，所有想法都从脑子里冒出来。所以创作故事所需的时间真的很难确定。但就流程而言，我同意它其实挺简单的。

But it's not really because, I mean, content creating sometimes when you're stuck with, like, one one plot might be stuck on this thing for, like, I don't know, a couple days. You just can't think of something that would really make sense. And sometimes, like, late at night when you're there, you just, like, everything is, like, coming out of your brain and everything is just working out. So that really is the the amount of time you need to actually create a story is kind of hard to determine. But in terms of just the process, it is I I would agree it's kind of simple.

对吧？你有故事、有机制、有设计、有包装，然后就完成了。

Right? You have the story. You have the mechanics. You have the design, the packaging, and you're done.

没错。但你提到的另一个重点是主持人指南，这非常有意思。我经常在节目中说，我认为游戏本质上是我们设计师策划的体验，我们把它们装进盒子里。为了让人们每次打开盒子都能获得相同的体验，或者让不同群体都能获得与A组B组相同的体验，你需要一份好的指南。那么你们是怎么编写指南手册的呢？

Yeah. But another thing that you said was the host guide, and that's really fascinating because I think in order and I've said this on the show many times that I believe games in general are like experiences that we curate as designers, and we put them in a box. And in order for people to have the same experience every time they open the box or a different group to have the same experience as, you know, group a and group b, that you need to have a good guide. Right? So how do you write a guidebook?

所以我们需要在脑海中模拟运行这个游戏，就像我们要主持这个游戏一样，整个流程该如何操作？与普通桌游不同的是，玩家在开始前需要记忆的信息并不多。基本规则非常笼统，比如你可以随时查看剧本，可以自由发言但需尊重其他玩家这类要求。

So we have to kind of run the game, like, internally in our brain as if if, we are gonna host this game, how are we gonna run-in terms of the process? And it's kind of different compared to, like, normal board game time is that there isn't that much of, like, information that the players have to memorize before they start. Like, the rule the general rules are really general. Like, you can you can look at your script. You can say whatever you want, but be respectful of other players, that kind of stuff.

还有绝对不能承认自己是凶手——这通常是我们告知玩家的三条核心规则。除此之外就没有什么通用规则了，剩下的都是针对具体游戏的特殊规则。

And you can never admit that you're a murderer. That's usually, like, the three rules that we actually tell players. But other than that, there aren't really, like, generic rules. They're just, like, game specific rules. And those are kind of just game based.

这些规则其实并不重要，只要主持人能完全理解并在游戏过程中做好监督就行。所以我认为编写主持人手册时，重点应该是引导他们思考：如果手头有这个剧本，从主持人角度该如何运作游戏？哪些才是关键步骤？具体需要做些什么？

And they're not that important as long as the host, like, fully understands and kind of, like, invigilates that throughout the game. So I would say when it comes to writing a host manual, it's more of asking us to say, okay. So if someone had the story and they're from a host standpoint, how are they gonna actually run the game? And then what are the actual crucial steps? So what do they need to do?

但其实没有所谓的关键道具，因为最终环节会有个'真相揭晓'部分，我们会提供完整故事线——这部分内容反而最容易编写。是的，从这个角度说，这和编写普通桌游的主持手册确实不太一样。

But there aren't really, like, key items because at the end of the day, once everyone's done, there's gonna be another part called kind of, like, the the answers, the solution where we have the entire story part, which that is actually really easy to write. So, yeah, I would say it's kind of different from writing a game host for a normal board game in that sense. Yeah.

明白了。既然排除了爱情题材，剩下两个类型中哪个更受不列颠哥伦比亚省当地观众欢迎？是谋杀题材还是阵营战争题材？

Okay, cool. So you've already said that romance as a no go, but out of the other two genres, which genre has really caught the attention of your local audience in British Columbia? Is it murder or is it faction war?

其实两种类型我们都有，零售表现都不错。但在本地举办的游戏活动中，最畅销的是《时间三重奏》——你可以在我们官网找到。这是个解谜游戏，带有时间穿越主题的故事线，最受西方观众青睐。

Yeah. So actually, both are while we have both genres, and both have done quite a while in terms of retail. But in our local, like, games being hosted, we our top seller is actually called the time triplet, which you can find on our website. It's a mystery solving, and it has a time travel themed story, so that's what attracts the most of the western audience.

没错，他们特别喜欢这种设定。观众反应都是'啊，这个设定我完全能理解'。

No. They they like that. They're like, oh, I I understand that.

嗯，这是关于时间旅行的。故事背景设在美国的一个小城市，所以这里的观众会很有共鸣。

Well, it's time travel. And then it's based in a I believe it's in a small city in The US, so it's very relatable to to the audience here.

你们的店铺实际位置在哪里？

Where is your store actually located?

我们在温哥华。准确地说是在列治文市，就在温哥华旁边，属于大温哥华地区。是的。

We are in Vancouver. We're well, we are in Richmond, which is which is right next to Vancouver, but in our Vancouver area. Yeah.

这很有趣，因为我朋友说她妈妈想搬到列治文，因为如果住那里就不用学英语了，她只会说普通话。

It's very funny because my friend, she said that, you know, her mom wanted to move to Richmond because if she moved there, she wouldn't need to learn how to speak English. She only speaks Mandarin.

确实如此。没错，是这样的。

That's true. Yeah. That's true.

某种程度上确实是这样。所以我就在想，你们是在列治文吗？我觉得你们应该在列治文。

It is kinda true. And so I was I was wondering, are you guys in Richmond? Because I think you're in Richmond.

是的。这里还有很多其他店铺，但主要只经营中文游戏。

We are. Yeah. And there are tons of other stores here too, but mostly do own Chinese only games.

哦，所以你们是少数几家、至少是首家面向非中文用户的店铺。

Oh, so so you are one of the only stores, at least the first store that is catering to the non Chinese audience.

是的，没错。

Yes. Yeah.

好的。还有其他几家店也在做类似的事情，他们经营剧本杀，但只服务中文用户。

Okay. And so there are several other stores that are doing similar things. They're they're doing Jubensha, but they're only catering to Chinese speakers.

对，没错。实际上大多数店铺都是这样。是的。

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Most of the stores actually. Yeah.

哇，真是有胆量。

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. The the nerve.

是的。这里有很多中国人，所以竞争相当激烈。

Yeah. Yes. There's just a lot of Chinese people here. So, like, like a lot of competition. Yeah.

你看，在这里生活，普通话和粤语就完全够用了。我父母的朋友们来了三十多年，从没说过英语。

So, you know, like, Mandarin and Cantonese, you literally don't have any problem living here. Yeah. That that's like we have, like like, my parents have friends. Like, they've they've been here for, like, thirty years, and they've never spoke English.

对吧？确实如此。那么你们是如何让人们了解你们的服务、店铺以及整个Juvenshaw的呢？采用了哪些营销渠道？

Right? Exactly. Exactly. So how are you getting people to be aware of your services, your stores, and Juvenshaw in general? What marketing channels?

你们发现哪些策略能有效吸引玩家参与zed nine？

What strategies have you been finding are effective for attracting players to zed nine?

嗯，是的。实际上我们采用了多种线上线下平台，特别是为了向英语社区推广学生群体。希望你们的频道也能帮到我们。

Mhmm. Yeah. So we actually use a variety of online and offline platforms, so especially to promote the student trying to the English speaking community. Hopefully, your channel could help us as

确实。

well Yeah.

在我们进行这些的同时。是的，简单列举几个，比如我们有IG频道、NewsMeta、投放了Google广告，还有YouTube。我们制作了一些视频，甚至参加过一些本地和国际桌游展会。去年我们还去了BGG展会。

While we're doing this. Yeah. So just to name a few, like, have we have our IG channel, we have NewsMeta, We we have Google Ads on, and we have YouTube. We have done a few videos and even been to a few local and international board game conventions. We've been to the BGG con last year.

玩过Borgian的玩家表现出极大兴趣。他们会来我们的展位询问，比如‘这是什么？’我们很乐意解答。还在现场举办了几场试玩，参与的玩家都非常享受。唯一限制是，在玩家实际体验前我们无法充分展示游戏内容。

So players who played Borgian were super interested. They were coming to our stall and asking us, like, oh, what what is this? And then we we would be glad to answer them. And we even hosted a few demos over there, and and the players who played really enjoyed it. It's just but the only limitation to that is that we can't really show them what it's about before they actually play the game.

是的。这与传统桌游有很大不同。但目前为止最有效的策略其实是像你们这样真正对Jiu Ben Sha感兴趣，并愿意通过频道分享这种精彩对战体验的人，把游戏推广出去——特别是面向整个北美市场。

That's Yeah. Big thing that is different compared to board game. Yeah. But so far, the best strategy is actually people like you, like, who are really truly interested in Jiu Ben Sha and willing to share this exciting fighting to people in your channel and then to bring this out to the yeah. Especially to North America in general.

我希望如此，因为我觉得你看，就像密室逃脱流行之后，现在大家都知道密室逃脱是什么了。是的。所以我希望Chip and Shaw也能这样，因为这是另一种娱乐方式，可以讲故事、玩游戏、沉浸式体验，而且不涉及酒精，不需要花大钱，能让你在精神和情感上投入相当长的时间，不像电影那样被动，而是真正主动参与、身临其境。

I hope so because I think there's you know, after, say, escape rooms came over. Now everybody knows what escape rooms are. Yeah. And so I I hope the same thing can happen for Chip and Shaw because it's another avenue for entertainment, for storytelling, for playing a game, for being immersed in an experience that isn't, you know, related to alcohol, that doesn't require you to, you know, spend big money, that can occupy you, you know, mentally and emotionally for a good amount of time where it's not passive like a movie. It's actually active, and you're, like, immersed in it.

我觉得这太棒了。就是这样。我...我还没玩过呢。看，这就是问题。我一直期待着能玩一次。

I think that is wonderful. So there you go. I I'm I haven't played one yet. See, that's the thing. I was I'm looking forward to to playing one.

下次你来墨西哥时记得告诉我们。

You come to Mexico next time. Let us know.

我会的。就像我说的，我的普通话很糟糕，所以我会来找你的。好的，就这样。那么展望未来，你预计Juventia在全球市场会有哪些新兴趋势或创新？

I will. And like I said, my Mandarin is horrible, so I will be coming to you. Yeah. There you go. So looking ahead, what emerging trends or innovations do you anticipate in the global market of Juventia?

我认为Juventia正在超越传统的周末在家和几个朋友玩的桌游。越来越多的场所开始提供沉浸式解谜体验。他们实际的做法与在家玩的区别在于，他们会把房间改造成与游戏主题相匹配的环境。比如你玩海盗主题时，他们会布置得像在船上一样，还有音乐来营造氛围。

So I think that Juventia is evolving beyond a traditional board game that's just played at home over the weekend with a couple of friends. More and more venues are now offering immersive dementia experiences. And how they actually do it, how is it different from actually doing it at your house is that they actually transform their rooms to match the themes of the games itself. So if you're playing a pirate theme, they would actually have a room that's they call it as, like, as if you're on the ship. And then there would be music to kind of sweets meet that ambiance.

在这种新形式下，DM（主持人）的角色变得更加重要。他们不再只是引导者或裁判，简单地告诉你下一步该做什么，或者恭喜你答对答错。

And in this new format, the role of the DM or we could say host, I would say it becomes more even more significant. It's no longer just a guide or a facilitator, just there as, like, a referee, say, so do this. Next step, do that. Oh, congratulations. You got it correct or incorrect whatsoever.

相反，

Instead,

会有

there will

故事中通常会有一个活跃的角色，对吧？比如他们可能是师父，而玩家则扮演六位弟子，然后他们试图在某个宗族内部解开剧情线索之类的。这基本上就是我们预测未来会看到的模式，有点像我们之前提到的密室逃脱。

there will often be a active role as a character within the story. Right? So they could be, like, the master, and then the players are being, like, the six disciples, and then they're trying to figure out a story plot within their clan of somewhere, that kind of stuff. So it's kind of that's that's kind of what we're predicting that we're gonna see in the future. It's kinda like the escape room we kinda mentioned.

对吧？最初我听说这是用于某种心理治疗，后来演变成一种娱乐形式，人们追求沉浸式体验。对于痴呆症治疗也是如此。我们的终极目标，可以说是让人们走出家门——不是传统意义上的旅行，而是打破传统桌游的概念。

Right? Initially, I heard this was for some psychological treatment thing, and then it became like an entertainment in which people kind of go for, like, an immersive experience. And same for dementia. We kind of we're kind of we're we're our ultimate goal, I would say, is to kind of get people out of their houses, out not from, like, a trip like, out of their out of the concept of being, like, a traditional board game. Right?

这不是我们单纯坐在那里玩乐的活动。它要求我们实际前往某处，比如在那里过夜，因为通常要持续三到四个小时，这样沉浸感会更强。

It's not something we just sit there and have fun. It says we actually go somewhere and then spend, like, a night there because it's usually three to four hours long, And that it's it's it's more immersive in that sense.

是的，我非常喜欢。我认为你是对的。即使在密室逃脱市场，早期的逃脱房间也只是在房间里堆砌一堆谜题而已，对吧？

Yeah. I love it. And I think you're right. I think, you know, even in the escape room market, there were escape rooms back in the day that were just, a bunch of puzzles thrown in a room. Right?

后来人们觉得这样还行，但更想要有故事性。剧本杀就自带故事线。虽然现在有了故事，我们还需要配套的布景、音乐，以及角色化的主持人。我觉得这是件很棒的事——既然要花四个小时，就该好好享受这四个小时。

And then people are like, that's okay, but I kinda want a story. And Jubenshaw come with that story attached. And even though it comes with the story now, we need the the trappings of that story and the music, and we need the in character host. And I think it's a lovely thing to do. If you're gonna spend four hours, spend a good four hours.

对吧？太棒了。太棒了。那么各位，说到这里，我想是时候进入游戏学闪电问答环节了。

Right? Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. So everybody with that, I think it is time for the ludological lightning round.

艾瑞卡不在，所以我要自己模仿闪电的声音，这很奇怪，因为通常她说台词我来配闪电声，或者我说话她配闪电声，但她现在不在。所以我得一人分饰两角。好吧。好的。

And Erica's not here, so I'm gonna make the lightning sounds myself, which is weird because normally she says that and I make the lightning sounds or I say it and she makes lightning sounds, but she's not here. So I have to do both. Okay. Okay. Good.

丹尼尔，有个问题要问你。如果Zed 9大楼发生谋杀案，你会立刻怀疑谁？菲利克斯还是彼得？

Daniel, this is a question for you. If there was a murder in the Zed 9 Building, who would you immediately accuse? Felix or Peter?

菲利克斯。

Felix.

为什么？为什么？他看起来不像是有罪的样子啊。为什么选菲利克斯？

Why? Why? He doesn't look he doesn't look guilty. Why Felix?

因为实际上我们写故事时，他才是负责设计主要谋杀情节的那个人。

Because, when we actually write our stories, he's the one in charge of, like, the main murder plot.

哦。他是

Oh. He's

那个会想出各种创意杀人手法的人。好吧。

the one that's gonna come up with, creative ways. Okay.

是啊。彼得，虽然没人指控你，但如果你真要杀人，你会选什么凶器？

Yeah. So so, Peter, you weren't accused, but if you ever were to commit a murder, what would your weapon of choice be?

大概就选刀吧。

Probably just a knife.

就选刀。简单。容易。我我甚至能在亚马逊上花几块钱就买到一把？没错。

Just a knife. Simple. It's easy. I can I can get one off of Amazon for, like, a couple bucks? Yeah.

挺简单的。好吧。好吧。那么菲利克斯，如果你被指控犯下如此恶劣的罪行，你如何证明自己清白？

Pretty simple. Okay. Okay. And Felix, if you were ever accused of a crime so foul, how would you prove your innocence?

嗯，这问题问得好。我可能会抛出不在场证明之类的证据来自证清白。是的。我还会帮指控我的人找出真凶。

Well, that's a good question. I'll probably like throw throw out some alibis, like something like that to prove myself innocent. Yeah. And I'm gonna help the one who's accusing me to find out who the real culprit is.

因为绝不可能是你。永远不可能是你。

Because it couldn't have been you. Never would have been you.

哦，帮帮忙解决这事。

Oh, help help about with that.

好的。那么我们就从丹尼尔开始。丹尼尔，整个Juvensha体验中你最喜欢的部分是什么？

Okay. Alright. So we're gonna start with Daniel. Daniel, what is your favorite part of the whole Juvensha experience?

我认为是角色扮演的部分。在接下来的三四个小时里，你可以完全变成另一个人。原本是你朋友的人可能暂时不再是你的朋友。我觉得这种设定很有趣——正是这种能短暂成为他人、根据角色背景自由发挥的体验吸引我加入了游戏。

I think it's the role playing part. Like, you get to be someone that's definitely not you within the next three or four hours. And the people who used to be your friends might temporarily not be your friends hours. So I think that's kind of the fun. That's kind of I got attracted to the game is you actually get to, like, be someone else for, like, a short amount of time and you can act upon whatever they have done in the story.

嗯，所以我觉得这是最吸引我的部分。

Mhmm. So I would think that that's the most tracking part for me.

是的。这让我想起Sarah Ship在10月19日《Thinking Beyond Mechanisms》节目里提到的观点，她谈到了'权限'与'魔法圈'的概念。Jibunshak就提供了这样的魔法圈，在这个圈内你可以彻底成为另一个人，完全不必做自己，这真的很酷。彼得，你呢？

Yeah. It kind of goes back to listeners what Sarah Ship was saying in the October 19 episode of Thinking Beyond Mechanisms, where she talked about permissions and the magic circle. And so Jibunshak give you that magic circle of which inside of it, you're somebody different. You don't have to behave like yourself at all, and that's really cool. Peter, what about you?

整个体验中你最喜欢的部分是什么？

What is your favorite part of the whole experience?

其实和丹尼尔说的很相似。角色扮演是最初吸引我的地方，纯粹就是表演的快感。而且我特别享受扮演凶手不被抓到的感觉——在游戏里你可以合法地撒谎，不用担心被识破。

Actually, it's quite similar to what Daniel just said. Like like, role play is the first thing that brought me into it. It's, just to act. And also being the I actually quite enjoy being the murderer and not being caught. You you can can play a game and lie and and legally lie and without, you know, without being caught.

现实生活中我不愿意撒谎，但在游戏里你可以尽情说谎，甚至因此获得奖励。

And you can't really like, I don't I don't want to lie in real life. But in the game, you can lie as much as you want and and be awarded with it.

没错。因为你可以做任何事，唯独不能告诉别人你就是凶手。对吧？差不多就是这样。

Right. Because you you can do anything except tell people that you are the murderer. Right? Yeah. Pretty much.

确实如此。对，差不多就是这样。

Literally. Yeah. Pretty much.

对。最后，Felix，你最喜欢的部分是什么？

Yeah. Finally, Felix, what is your favorite part?

所以当你说玩游戏时，当然最吸引人的就是试图揭开真相，尤其是那些极具挑战性的游戏。这就是我最享受的部分。另外还有一部分是关于主持游戏，直接获取玩家们的反应。这样你就能注意到，哦，他们是否真的投入其中？

So when you're saying, like, playing the game, of course, it's like trying to figure out the truth is, especially with those games that's really challenging. So that's the part, like, what I enjoy. And also another part is about, like, hosting and hosting the game. Get, like, reactions directly from the players. So so you notice, like, oh oh, are they into it?

比如说，他们有多喜欢这个游戏？当你全程主持游戏时，如果他们觉得你主持得非常出色，那对我来说也是一种巨大的成就感。

Like, how much they like the game? And when you're, like, hosting the game throughout, like, the whole process, if they feel like, yeah, you did doing a very good job with hosting, then it's also like a great, like, accomplishment for me.

在我进入下一个也是最后一个问题之前，你之前提到过难度上有差异。有没有一个评级标准？或者，

Quickly before I go to the next and last question, you said before that there's, like, differences in difficulty. Is there, like, a rating scale? Or,

是的。当我们设计不同游戏时，会尝试制定一个标准。比如针对新手玩家和硬核玩家，不同游戏会有不同难度。目前我们制作的游戏更偏向于新手到中等难度，因为我们不想一开始就用超高难度吓跑玩家，毕竟《Dreadchat》是个讲究体验的游戏——玩得越多就会越擅长。嗯。

Yeah. So when we're having, like, different games, we'll try to, like, make a scale. So for example, like, beginners, like, really, like, hardcore players, there will be, like, difficulties in different types of games. So, currently, the games that we are producing now, like, the games are sort of, like, closer to a beginner to, like, a, like, a medium level difficulty because we don't want to throw throw throw a lot of players off by giving somebody, like, super difficult game that they can't solve at this point because Dreadchat is a game about experience, so the more you play, you'll be, like, better at it. Mhmm.

但刚开始玩游戏时，不妨加入些常见元素——应该说这些游戏里都有些共通的知识点。不过这些知识嘛，只有通过实际游玩才能掌握。所以让我们把这些知识点融入游戏，让玩家逐步成长，这样未来就能挑战更高难度的游戏了。

But the beginning, when you're playing the game, let's just throw in some common I would say there are also some common knowledge in these games. So but these knowledge, like, you can only learn them by playing them. So let's throw some of them some of these knowledge in, let players evolve, and then let's go for, like, more difficult games in the future.

好的，太棒了。那么最后一个问题——因为我每年至少去BC省一次，我的商业伙伴住在温哥华，所以必须问问你们每个人。

Alright. Love it. So last question, and this is just because I travel to BC at least once a year. My business partner lives in Vancouver. So I need to know this from each of you.

辛苦工作一整天后，你们会去哪家店吃最地道的中餐？必点菜是什么？

Where do you guys go for the best authentic Chinese food after a hard day of murdering, and what's your go to order?

中餐其实分很多种类。我觉得温哥华的问题在于没有所谓'中餐'，关键是你想吃什么类型的中餐。

So there's definitely different types of Chinese food. So I think the problem is with Vancouver, there's no Chinese food. It's really what kind of Chinese food you want.

是啊。

Yeah. Do

你想要广式点心？还是酸辣口的川菜？或者火锅？又或是北方风味，比如孜然羊肉之类的？

you want, like, Cantonese dim sum? Do you want, like, citron spicy stuff, or do you want hot pot? Or do want, like, northern Chinese, like, cumin, lamb,

对，种类太多了。实在难以抉择。

that kind stuff? Yeah. Too many to pick. Too many.

选择太多了，不过我可以给你一些推荐。是的，我们三个都是美食爱好者。如果你想尝试传统的粤式鱼汤面，那鹿园是个不错的选择。

There's too many to pick, but I can give you some recommendations. Yeah. All three of us are, like, food geeks. Yeah. If you want a traditional Cantonese fish broth noodle soup, That would be Deer Garden.

是叫鹿园吗？鹿园？对，对，就叫鹿园，在红里士满那边。

Is that what it's called? Deer Garden? Yeah. Yeah. It's called Deer Garden, and it's in Red Richmond.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得那是最好的一家。你可以根据自己的喜好定制面条，选任何配料或汤底。所以我不具体推荐哪道菜，就推荐这家店本身。

I think that's the top best. They they you can kind of customize your own noodle with, like, whatever toppings or whatever broth you want. So that I wouldn't recommend which dish, but just the

直接去就行了。

Just go there.

对，直接去那里你就知道了。

Yeah. Just go there and you'll figure it

好的。

out. Okay.

价格非常实惠。对。对。嗯。

Very affordable price. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.

说到火锅，我们强烈推荐地标火锅店，这家店我想至少已经开了四十年了。

And then in terms of hot pot, we are definitely recommend Landmark Hot Pot, which has been open, I think, for at least forty years as of now.

哇。

Wow.

这是家传统的广式火锅店。价格偏高，但他们家的肉类和海鲜品质一流，服务也特别好——这在中餐馆里通常很少见。

It's a traditional, like, Cantonese style hot pot. It is quite pricey, but their quality of meat as well as seafood is top notch, as well as their service is top notch, which is usually uncommon for Chinese restaurants.

对啊。你们是不是专门冲着三星评级去的？因为像Yelp上那些五星评级，都是迎合西方人口味的。但三星评级就刚刚好，虽然服务员态度可能很差，会冲你嚷嚷什么的——你知道的，所有正宗中餐馆都这样。

Yeah. Are are you are you are you subscriber to subscribers to, like, go for, like, the three star? The three star ratings? Because, like, a five star rating on, like, Yelp or something is, they're they're catering to, like, the westerners. But a three star rating, they're, like, good enough, but they're they're definitely, like, like, surly and mean and, like, they yell at you and just, you know, it happens in in, you know, all good Chinese restaurants.

不过，总之就是这样。

But, anyways yeah.

我一般会亲自去过之后再做判断。比如如果我们只是去尝鲜，看到一星、五星或三星评级，我其实不会太在意。

I I tend to make judgments after I actually, like, went there as the these ones. So if I if if we're going to a place to just try it out, for example, and I saw there's, a matter it's a one star or a five star or a three star, I wouldn't really care too much about it.

是的。

Yeah.

现在我会等到自己对餐厅有了初步印象后，再去重新查看那些评论。

Now I would only relook at the reviews actually once I have my own kind of impression on the restaurant from my

先生，您这种做法很明智。

That's a that's a smart way of doing it, sir.

我会比较这些评论，但不会只看表面信息。不，不会去...或者说，是的。

I would compare, like, the reviews, but I wouldn't just look at that real estate. Nope. Not going or yes. Yeah.

好的。非常感谢丹尼尔、菲利克斯和彼得。很高兴Zed Nine团队全员到场。如果有人想联系你们，比如想咨询或预约游戏，该怎么联系呢？

Alright. So thank you so much, Daniel, Felix, and Peter. It was great having the whole zed nine crew here. How can people get in contact with you if they, you know, wanna talk to you? If they wanna maybe book a game?

他们必须去你们店里玩游戏吗？还是可以从你们那里购买游戏？或者你们能提供线上服务吗？

Do they have to go to your store to play games, or can they buy games from you, or can you host online?

是的。他们可以来我们店里玩或购买，也可以通过我们网站购买。可以通过Instagram账号z_nine_mystery联系我们，或发邮件至info@z9mystery.com。本地顾客可以在z9mystery.com预约场次并到店体验。

Yeah. So they can actually come to our store to play and buy or and or buy from us on our website. So they can connect with us through our Instagram page at z nine underscore mystery, and also email us at info@z9mystery.com. And if you're local, can book your session with us and visit us at z9mystery.com. That's our website to book your local session.

购买我们的游戏请访问专属网站z9juvensha.com，我们支持全球配送。

And for purchasing our game, we have a separate website, z9juvensha.com, and we ship pretty much anywhere in the world.

所以那是

So that's a

很多网站或话题标签随处可见，但

lot of website or hashtags here and there, but

没错。只要输入Zen nine mystery就能找到全部内容。

yeah. But if you just type in Zen nine mystery, you get all.

对。应该...应该的。

Yeah. Should should should be.

太棒了。今天和你们结束连线后我可能就会去找一个。一如既往，我们要感谢赞助人的慷慨支持：Daniel Solis、Gere Anhelje、Jason Zions和Adrian Quark。若想支持节目，请前往patreon.com/ludology捐款，或访问我们的官网ludology.net，通过页面顶部的PayPal图标进行单次或定期捐赠。

Perfect. I will probably look for one today after I get offline with you guys. So as always, we'd love to thank our benefactors for their generous support. Daniel Solis, Gere Anhelje, Jason Zions, and Adrian Quark. If you wanna support the show, please go to patreon.com/ludology to make a donation, or you can go to our website, ludology.net, and make a one time or recurring donation through the PayPal icon at the top of the page.

我们为会员准备了专属的赞助者内容。请注意，会员资格实际上无需付费，但我们衷心感谢您的支持。今天就到这里，各位。两周后我们将带来新一期《游戏学》节目。让我们把那些游戏从你的脑海搬到桌面上来吧。

We have exclusive patron only content just for members. Now remember, membership doesn't actually cost anything, but we do appreciate your support. So that's gonna do it for now, everybody. We'll see you in two weeks with another episode of Ludology. Let's get those games out of your head and onto the table.

感谢您的收听。《游戏学》得以持续制作，全赖像您这样的听众的支持与捐助。我们诚邀您访问ludology.net，参与关于今日话题的持续讨论。《游戏学》是顶级桌游媒体网络'骰塔网络'的成员节目，欢迎访问dicetowernetwork.com探索我们提供的所有节目。

Thanks for listening. Ludology is made possible by the support and donations of listeners like you. We encourage you to visit us at ludology.net to get involved in a continuing discussion on today's topic. Ludology is a member of the Dice Tower Network, the premier board game media network. Explore all the shows we have to offer at dicetowernetwork.com.

下次再见前，请持续思考、持续学习、持续游戏。

Until next time, keep thinking, keep learning, and keep playing.