绿茵场上的同志身份——与蒂莎·艾琳同行

大家好，欢迎回到《Made It Out》。今天和我一起的是职业高尔夫球手、播客主持人兼All In Golf创始人Tish All In。我们将聊聊她的酷儿历程，她如何向菲律宾家人出柜，PGA如何帮助她在高尔夫界公开身份，以及她如何将这段经历转化为代表少数群体的先锋行动。约会软件疲劳确实是个普遍现象。

Hey, y'all. Welcome back to Made It Out. Today, I'm here with professional golfer, podcast host, and founder of All In Golf, Tish All In. We're talking about her queer journey, how she came out to her Filipino family, how the PGA helped her come out to the golf world, and how she has taken that experience and become a pioneer for representation. Dating app fatigue is a very real thing.

无意识的滑动和毫无意义的私信会让我们都感到更加疏离。虽然大多数约会软件都专注于追求他人，但有一款软件为你留出了发现自我的空间。在field平台上，你有充分呼吸的空间来探索所有欲望。你有超过20种性别和性取向身份可选，能以从未想象过的方式自由探索真实的自己和喜好。

Mindless swiping and meaningless DMs can make us all feel way more disconnected. And while most dating apps are about pursuing someone else, there's one that's carved out space for you to find yourself. On field, you have the breathing room to explore all of your desires. You have so many options with 20 plus sexuality and gender identities to choose from. You have the freedom to explore who you are and what you like in ways that you've never even imagined.

62%的field成员在使用的第一年内就发展了自己的性取向兴趣和欲望。立即下载FEELD应用，在App Store或Google Play搜索f e e l d。感谢你的到来，我也很高兴能在这里。

Sixty two percent of field members evolve their sexuality interests and desires within the very first year. Download FEEL today. That's f e e l d on the App Store or on Google Play. Thank you for being here. I'm happy to be here.

非常高兴你能来参加。

I'm so excited to have you here.

我太兴奋了，这感觉

I'm so excited. It's kind

有点好笑。感觉我们在网上互相关注很久了。嗯哼。我们都属于酷儿群体。是的。

of funny. Like, I feel like we followed each other online for a long time. Uh-huh. We're both, like, in the queer world. Yes.

但直到我们因为品牌活动去了迪士尼世界才见面。没错。

But we didn't meet until we went to Disney World on a brand trip. Right.

对，这太疯狂了。疯狂的是你竟然是那个额外带的人。我当时就，等等。什么？

Right. Which is wild. Which is wild because you were the plus one. And I'm like, wait. What?

是啊。但当我第一次见到你时，我简直不敢相信。什么情况。那就是我们初次相遇的时候。太不可思议了。

Yeah. But when I first saw you, I was like, what? What the yeah. That is the first time that we met. That's so crazy.

是的。没错。

Yes. Yeah.

很高兴你终于坐到沙发上了。我也很开心能来。你提到过很少有机会公开讨论酷儿话题，确实如此。

So it's good to have you on the couch finally. Happy to be here. And I wanna talk you mentioned that you don't get a lot of, like, airtime, I guess, to talk about queerness. Yeah. That's very true.

在高尔夫领域。

In golf.

没错。高尔夫是男性主导的运动。我们谈论高尔夫时，话题总是围绕青少年培养、女子高尔夫发展、职业赛事和转播层面。目前高尔夫界对酷儿话题的讨论空间确实有限，但情况正在好转。比如2019年我公开出柜时，那种感觉真的很可怕。

Yes. Well, golf is a very male dominated sport. And it's like when we speak in golf, it's very, like, to the youth and to growing in women's golf and to, you know, the professional level and, like, broadcast level. And so, like, there isn't a lot of room for a queerness in golf at the moment, but it is becoming, which is great. Like, if you ask me, like, when I came out publicly, like, in 2019 how that was, that was scary.

但现在我觉得社会接纳度提高了不少，不过整体氛围还是那种‘就这样继续下去吧’的感觉。

But now I feel like it's a lot more accepting, but it's still kind of like, okay. Just continue as is.

对。

Right.

一如既往。所以，虽然我没有太多机会直接宣告：'嘿，我是同性恋，我大声骄傲地活着'。你知道，这种时刻并不多。但绝对可以有更多开放和包容，让我们能继续把这个空间变得更包容。所以不，我确实很少谈论这事。

Business as usual. And so, like, not that there's a lot of room for me to just be like, y'all, I'm I'm gay and I'm loud and I'm proud. You know, there's not a lot of moments like that. But there could definitely be more openness and embrace so that we can continue to make it more like an inclusive space. So no, I don't get to talk about it much.

好的。

Okay.

是的，我想深入了解这一切。不过我想先从你是谁开始？比如，你的童年是怎样的？

Yeah. I wanna get into all of it. Yes. But I wanna start with who are you? Like, what was your childhood like?

嗯。

Yeah.

跟我聊聊你的家庭吧。

Tell me about your family.

当然。哦，亲爱的。我的家人——我是菲律宾人，非常忠于我的文化。我的父母都是从菲律宾移民过来的，我来自芝加哥。天哪。

For sure. Oh, love. So my fam so I'm Filipino and very true to my culture. My parents both migrated here from The Philippines, and I'm from Chicago. Oh my god.

我也是。真的吗？我来自内珀维尔。不会吧。

Me too. Really? I'm from Naperville. No way.

等等。奇怪。我没有...是的。

Wait. Weird. I didn't Yeah.

我出生在罗克福德，但实际是在芝加哥长大的。

I was born in Rockford and then raised actually, like, in Chicago.

好吧。

Okay.

是的。爱。是的。之后不久，在我三岁的时候，高尔夫就进入了我的生活。那就像是我和父亲之间的一种纽带。

Yeah. Love. Yeah. And then, soon thereafter, when I turned three, golf came into my life already. It was just like a way for my dad and I to bond.

他是个全职爸爸，而我妈妈...她其实是因为作为赞助护士来到美国的。哇。是的。所以我们全家都从事医疗领域。后来，高尔夫就成了我和父亲之间的纽带。

He was a stay at home dad, and my mom was he she actually came to The US because she was a sponsored nurse. And Wow. Yeah. So medical field, on my whole family. And then eventually, that was just how my dad and I bonded.

他经常去练习场，带着我，我就和他们待在一起。当时没有儿童球杆，他就把一根球杆切成两半，用胶带缠了个握把。然后我就开始用它击球。后来这成了我们生活的重心，说实话，整个家庭都变得以高尔夫为中心。我们开始因为我的比赛而旅行，走遍全国。

He'd go to the range all the time, take me, and I would just be with them. And then he cut a club in half because there was no kids clubs at the moment and used, like, tape for a grip. And then I just started hitting balls with them. And then that became, like, our lives, and it became, like, honestly, very, like, golf centric. The family like, we just started going on trips because it was, like, my tournaments, and we started traveling nationwide.

现在我正在与更强大的对手竞争，然后我逐渐进步。就这样，高尔夫成为了我生活的全部。在我的记忆中，它从未缺席过我的生活。我无法想象没有高尔夫的日子会是怎样。但尽管如此，我始终有一群亲密的童年好友，他们都是菲律宾人。

And now I'm competing against bigger people, and then I was getting better. And then that just became my life. Like, I don't really have a memory where that wasn't a part of my life. I don't know what that's like. And but through it all, though, I've always had very close childhood friends, Filipino.

青少年时期搬到了加利福尼亚。显然，我继续打高尔夫，这项运动一直是我生命中非常重要的一部分，至今仍是。是的，这就是我的家庭情况。我和父母双方至今仍非常亲近。

Moved to California when I was a teen. Continued the golf, obviously, which has been a very, very big part of my life, still a part of it now. And, yeah, that's kind of my family. Still very close to both my both my parents.

你有兄弟姐妹吗？兄弟姐妹。好的。很多兄弟姐妹。

Do you have siblings? Siblings. Okay. Many siblings.

嗯，感觉上是挺多的。我有两个同父同母的弟弟，一个同父异母的哥哥，还有一个领养的妹妹。

Well, feels like many. I got two full blood brothers, one half brother, and one adopted sister.

好的。所以父母现在已经不在一起了？不在一起了。是的。我很好奇那是什么感觉。

Okay. So parents aren't together anymore? No more. Yeah. What was it like I'm really curious.

有个全职爸爸是什么感觉？比如，

What was it like with having a stay at home dad? Like, what do

你

you

你认为你从中接收到的信息是什么？

think the messaging you received from that was?

这真的很有趣，因为我觉得当人们听到‘全职爸爸’这个词时，往往带着一种负面色彩，尤其是在那个年代。但我父亲完全不以为意。他当时正在学习成为呼吸治疗师，所以虽然待在家里，但同时也做着有意义的事。那是我人生中非常关键且具影响力的时刻，因为正是那时我和父亲建立了深厚的情感纽带。

It's really interesting because I think there's a lot of, like, pride in or there it it's like a negative context, I feel like, when you hear a stay at home dad, especially during era of time. And but my dad didn't think anything of it. He was also trying to study to become a respiratory therapist. And so he would stay at home, but he was still doing something at the same time. And it was a very pivotal and, influential moment in my life because that was the moment that my dad and I bonded.

是啊。尽管我们经历过起伏——我父母后来分开了，我们的关系也有些微妙之处——但这项运动以及他的训练方式始终是我们之间的联结。只要高尔夫还在我的生活中，我就知道他会一直陪伴着我。唉，所以...

Yeah. And, like, through our highs and lows, because my parents are no longer together and we've had our interesting quirks in our relationship, the sport and the way that we became and how he's trained me is always what keeps us connected. So as long as golf is in my life, I know that he will always be in my life. Ugh. So

是啊。你知道吗，这很有趣。我成长在一个以棒球为核心的家庭，我哥哥是职业棒球手。哦，真不错。

Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I grew up in a very baseball centered family. My brother played professional baseball. Oh nice.

确实如此。大概两岁时我就想打职业棒球，整个家庭都围绕着他这个目标转，这既了不起又充满艰辛，还带着些说不清的古怪。但和他聊过后，我能感觉到这给他带来了很大压力。哦，是的。

And it was very much like that. It was like at two, I wanna play professional baseball. And so the family kind of centered around getting him to that goal which is like amazing and hard and weird in a lot of different ways. But for him, I've talked to him about it, and it probably feels like a lot of pressure. Oh, yeah.

嗯。我在想，你能详细谈谈这个吗？

Yeah. I'm wondering, can you talk a little bit about that?

当然。我第一次真正感受到压力是在七岁开始比赛时。那时候对我来说，就是‘好吧，我在和其他女孩打球，输赢无所谓’这种状态。

Absolutely. I think, like, the first time I actually started to feel like pressure was I started competing at seven. And for me at during that time, it was kinda like, okay. I guess I'm playing with other girls, and it's it's like whatever. It doesn't matter if I win or lose.

然后很快，大概一年后，我现在八岁了，我很快意识到，我不喜欢输的感觉，所以我必须赢。唉。当我赢了，会得到很多赞美。赢了的时候，我是如此被爱。现在回想起来真的很特别。

And then quickly after, like, one year into it, so I'm eight now, I quickly am understanding, like, I don't like the feeling of losing, so I have to win. Ugh. And when I win, I get a lot of praise. When I win, I'm so loved. It was a really unique like, this is me looking back at it now.

对吧？显然当时我并没有这么想。就是觉得，哇，赢的感觉真好。就是这样。

Right? Obviously, in that moment, I am not thinking this. It was like, oh, wow. This feels really good to win. That was it.

当我开始参加全国性比赛时——那之后很快，大概9到11岁——我和现在巡回赛上的女孩们一起打球。我们一起长大，那时压力开始出现，因为我们要在全国各地奔波。我知道当时家里条件有限，但家人为我创造了一切可能。他们总是告诉我，只要你开心、打好球，其他都不重要。

And when I started competing in, like, on more of a national level, which was quickly thereafter, like, nine to 11 years old, I'm playing with girls that is on tour right now. Like, we've grown up And playing that's when pressure set in because now we're traveling, you know, nationwide. I understood at the moment that we didn't have the most means, but my family made it happen for me. And they always told me, like, if you are happy and you play well, we're everything is fine. Doesn't matter what we're going through.

哇。但我一直很清楚，年纪虽小却明白这很艰难。我想压力就是从那时开始慢慢积累的。当我经历连败期——不仅是输球，状态全无——我才真正感受到压力：看着同龄人击败我、超越我，看到父母焦虑的样子，想到高尔夫曾是让全家如此快乐的事情。就像你家，每当弟弟表现出色，全家都会庆祝。

Wow. But I always very much was aware, like, being younger and understanding that it was a struggle. And I think that's where, like, pressure started to slowly set in. And when I went through a period of a lot of loss, just literally losing, physically losing, my game not being there, I started to really feel the pressure of watching my peers beat me and move to a higher level than me and then seeing how my parents were distraught and seeing how golf is something that made my family so happy. Like, I'm sure, like, in your family, whenever your brother thrived, it was a celebration for everyone.

对吧？他的胜利就是你的胜利。对我来说就是这样，而且那十年里我是独生子。所以当我表现不好时，感觉就像天塌了一样，压力就是从那时开始的。

Right? His win is your win. That was it for me, and I was the only child for ten years there. So it felt a little like the be all end all when I didn't perform well, and that's when pressure started happening. Yeah.

所以，是的，这挺疯狂的。我想这解释了为什么我现在做这些事——因为我能承受很大压力。我喜欢面对镜头，喜欢那种感觉。但我想这都源于一个前提：表现好会让你感觉良好，别人也会让你感觉良好。嗯。

And so, yeah, it's pretty crazy. I mean, guess that explains, like, why I do what I do now because, like, I can handle a lot of pressure. I like being in front of camera, and I I like the way it makes me feel and things like that. But I think it really derives from the precedent of if you play well or if you do well, it makes you feel good and other people make you feel good. Mhmm.

就像是

It's like

真的，就像把这两件事联系起来一样。就像是随之而来的

a really, like It's like linking those two things together. Like, comes

胜利伴随着爱，爱伴随着行动。

with winning or love comes with doing.

是的。是的。有条件性的。对。哇。

Yes. Yes. Conditional. Yeah. Wow.

那么你的酷儿身份是如何融入这一切的？

So how did your queerness play all into all of this?

酷儿身份直到我23岁才成为影响因素。哇。是啊。现在三十出头了。我直到23岁才真正意识到自己的性取向。

So queerness didn't play into it until I was 23 years old. Wow. Yeah. So early thirties now. And I didn't realize my sexuality literally until I was 23.

所以我一生都在打高尔夫。我在高中、大学和职业级别都打过球。我和高中时的初恋男友在一起。哇。七年时间，他其实已经买了戒指，准备向我求婚。

And so I played golf all my life. I played in the high school, collegiate, professional level. I was with a high school sweetheart with a with a boy. Wow. For seven years, he literally had a ring, and he was ready to propose to me.

直到今天，我依然会把他视为我的初恋，因为我真心爱过他，现在也爱他。就像，他是关键部分，你知道，七年的感情不能就这样抛弃。有趣的是，当我意识到自己的性取向时——长话短说——我和高中初恋的关系已经岌岌可危。而我不知怎么在网上爱上了别人，是个女人。这是真的...你知道对方是女性吗？还是遇到了网络骗子？

And still to this day, like, I will always note him as, like, my first love because I genuinely really love him so I love him now. Like, he was a pivotal part of, you you know, seven years, you just don't just throw it away. And it's funny because when I realized my sexuality and the long story short, we were on the rocks, me and the my high school sweetheart. And I somehow fell in love with someone else online, and it was a woman. And it was really it was Did you know it was a woman, or was this catfish?

不。不。好吧。好吧。天啊。

No. No. Okay. Okay. Oh my god.

不。嗯，我们已经

No. Well, we've had

在这个播客里讨论过。哦，不。不。绝对不是骗子。不是骗子。

that on this podcast. Oh, no. No. Definitely not a catfish. Not a catfish.

那是个非常有趣的地方，因为，我觉得可以这样看，基本上你是在欺骗。我并不是要否认这一点，但在那一刻，我不知道还有其他可能。感觉就像一段友谊。是的。那种感觉就像是，哇。

And it was a really interesting place because, like, I think it could be looked at as like, well, you basically cheated. And and I'm not trying to say otherwise, but in that moment, I didn't know any different. It felt like a friendship. Yes. It was like, wow.

我真的很能与这个同样身处高尔夫世界的女孩产生共鸣，我们建立了联系等等。这种感情是慢慢发展的。直到她告诉我，其实我是双性恋，这让我有了某种感觉。我感受到了从未有过的情绪。然后我回到男友身边——那时我们的关系已经很紧张了。

I really resonate with this with this girl who's also in the golf world and, you know, we're connecting and whatnot. And it was really like a slow growth. And then it wasn't until she told me that, like, I'm actually bi, And it made me just feel something. I felt something, and I had never felt anything before. And I went back to my boyfriend or we were again, we were really on the rocks at the time.

我们试图解决问题。我告诉了他情况，他说：'你现在就需要告诉我你的选择。我觉得我们注定要永远在一起。所以如果你需要弄清楚，那就去吧。但...我...我会让你做你想做的事。'

We were trying to figure it out. And I told him what was up, and he was like, you just need to tell me right now, like, what it is that you wanna choose. Like, I I I feel like we're supposed to be together forever. So this just feels like if you need to see it through, see it through. But, like, I I don't I we I'll let you do what you wanna do.

那时我和男友是异地恋。所以他总是非常支持我...哇...支持我做的任何事，因为他真心认为我们是最终会在一起的。我们如此投入这段感情，彼此信任至深。后来我告诉他，我真的不明白自己的感受。

We're long distance at this rate, me and my boyfriend. And so he was always very supportive of whatever Wow. Whatever I was trying to do because he really felt like we were endgame. Like, we were just so in it and, like, trusted each other so much that that was where we were at. And then I came to a point where I told him that I am really not understanding my feelings.

我甚至无法认清自己，而且，我必须现在就结束这一切。我并不是非要和她发展什么关系，但我内心很矛盾，我们不得不结束。事情就是这样发生的。我看到了他。他正在旅行。

I'm really unable to even identify myself, and, like, I have to end it right now. I'm not I'm not necessarily pursuing anything with her, but, like, I'm so conflicted that we have to end. And so that was how that situation happened. I saw him. He was traveling.

他实际上是个特技演员。天啊。你知道吗？他是个特技演员。他以前是体操运动员，后来转行做特技，还扮演过漫威的巡演角色蜘蛛侠。

He was he actually is a stuntman. And so Oh my gosh. Know. He was a stuntman. He was, like, a former gymnast, and then he went into stunting, and he got to play, like, an on the road Marvel character who was Spider Man.

哇。但那是在漫威现场秀里。所以他在克罗地亚和意大利。尽管我们基本结束了，我还是安排了行程去见他。我到了那里见到他，心想也许我只是想他了。

Wow. But it was, like, Marvel live. And so he's, like, in Croatia and in Italy. And I had a trip set to see him even though we were basically over. And I go there, and I see him, and I thought, maybe I just miss him.

也许就是这样。我去那里见到他，确实想他了，但同时也意识到我并没有在想他。尽管我们已经结束了，我还是再次告诉他，我真的很想确认这段感情是否真的结束了，因为我们很久没见了。不幸的是，确实结束了。之后不久我回来，又去追求了这段感情。嗯，我和那个女孩。

Maybe that's it. And I go there and I see him and I do miss him and I realized that I was not thinking of him. And so even though we were already over, I told him again that I I really wanted to try to make sure that this was for sure because we hadn't seen each other in a minute, And, unfortunately, this is it. And then when I came back not too long after, I pursued it. I well, I I With the girl.

是的，我主动了，我向她坦白了自己的感受。这真的很可怕，因为这违背了我的文化、家庭信仰和一切。有很长一段时间，我非常担心自己的处境，因为我知道如果这是真的，我将面对什么。

Yeah. I pursued it, and I I just I told her how I felt back. Yeah. And it was a really scary thing because it goes against my culture, family's religion, everything. Like, there was a long period of really, being concerned for my well-being because I knew what I would have to face if this were true.

我竭尽全力想让这一切不是真的。是的，比如我男朋友很受喜爱。我的家人是天主教徒。我的家人是菲律宾人。

And I was really trying to do everything in my power for it to not be true. Yeah. Like, my boyfriend is loved. My family is Catholic. My my family is Filipino.

我是家里的金凤凰，是完美的女儿。我知道这会击垮我的家人。而且在我的家族里，没有人...我的家族里没有同性恋者。肯定没有女同性恋。

I am the golden child. I am the perfect daughter. I know that this will crush my family. And it will and in my family, no one would I have no one in my family that's, like, gay. For sure not lesbian.

因此当你特别缺乏相关实例时，事情就会变得困难得多。

And so when you don't especially have any examples of it, it makes it so much harder.

是啊，困难多了。约会软件疲劳是真实存在的现象。无脑的滑动、毫无意义的私信，这些都让我们感到更加疏离。大多数约会软件都专注于追求他人，但有一款应用却为你留出了探索自我的空间。

Yeah. So much harder. Dating app fatigue is a very real thing. Mindless swiping, meaningless DMs, it can all make us feel so much more disconnected. And while most dating apps are about pursuing someone else, there's actually one that's carved out space for you to find yourself.

在Field平台上，你有充分的空间探索所有欲望。无论是开放式关系、依偎、耍小性子，还是寻找志同道合的社群——比如龙与地下城、网球、设计创作。这里没有广告，完全独立，吸引着充满好奇心、爱玩且思想开放的人群，正是你一直在寻找的那些人。如果你感到好奇，这里有个关于Field上约会体验的小预览。

On field, you have the breathing room to explore all of your desires. Think open relationships, cuddling, being a brat, and find communities that share your interest. Think d and d, tennis, design making. Free from ads and completely independent, this is the place that draws curious, playful, and open minded people, the ones that you have been looking for. If you're feeling curious, here's a little preview of what dating is like on field.

你有海量选择。20多种性取向和性别身份任你挑选，可以自由探索从未想象过的自我认知与喜好。62%的Field用户在第一年就会发展出新的性趣向。立即下载Field（拼写f-e-e-l-d），可在App Store或Google Play获取。那些对话是怎样的呢？

You have a ton of options. With 20 plus sexuality and gender identities to choose from, you have the freedom to explore who you are and what you like in ways that you've never even imagined. Also, sixty two percent of field members evolve their sexuality interests and desires within the first year. Download Field, that's f e e l d, on the App Store or Google Play. And what were the conversations like?

你成长过程中有人主动讨论同性恋话题吗？还是说这根本是件...从未...算是...好吧...从未...你完全没听说过的事？

Were there active conversations when you were growing up about gay people, or was this just something that you Never. Kind of Okay. Never. You heard nothing.

没有。说实话，我生活中根本不认识任何同性恋者。去天主教堂时会听到些说法——其实任何男女婚前在一起都是罪，但你会听到关于两个男人或两个女人的事，那也是一种罪。是的，你只知道这是不能触碰的禁区。

No. I I didn't even know, like like, anyone that was gay in my life, honestly. And, like, you'd go to Catholic church and you'd you'd hear some things about well, honestly, like, any man and woman being together before marriage was already a sin, but you would hear things about, you know, two men or two women, like, that's also a sin. Yeah. You just knew that it wasn't something that you crossed

没错。

Right.

说到底。我记得在高中时，我想大概是高中吧？对，大概高中时期，那是我第一次遇到一个女同性恋者。

At the the end of the day. And I remember in high school, like, I think or no. Maybe was it high school? Yeah. Like, around high school, I think it was the first time I met I met a girl that was lesbian.

这在我的生活中根本不存在。而在高尔夫球界特别有趣，因为我觉得大约30%的女性是同性恋。我当时很好奇，但没人谈论这事。我对LPGA巡回赛中这个隐藏的女性群体一无所知。

Like, it was literally not a thing in my life. And in golf, which is so funny because, like, I feel like 30% of the women are gay. Was wondering. Not talked about. I did not know about this hidden society of women on the LPGA tour.

我当时就想，拜托，我真的很需要些指引。说到底，我完全没有参照对象。这就是为什么我否认自己性向那么久。当我最终袒露感受时，就像任何初次女女恋情一样，直接从零飙到一百。

I'm like, hello. I could really use some help here. Like, I had zero representation at the end of the day. So that's what made me feel like I was in denial so much longer. And so when I finally shared my feelings, it just like any first woman relationship goes, you go zero to a 100.

是的。这段关系可能成了我有生以来最动荡的一段。哇，真是艰难的第一课。她来自不同国家，但因为打高尔夫会来美国参赛。

Yep. And it became probably the most tumultuous relationship that I could ever ask for. Wow. It was a really hard first learning lesson. And she was from a different country and but she played golf, so she would come to The States and play golf.

事情就这样阴差阳错地发生了。这实在太疯狂了，但我觉得这是必经之路。经历之后我甚至怀疑：这样了还能确定自己是同性恋吗？真的太糟糕了，双方都处理得很差。

And so that's how it kinda came to be. And it's it's just such a crazy place because I think it had to happen. Like, I had to it was one of those things where I'm like, am I sure I'm gay after this experience? Like, it was so it was so bad. It was so bad on both parts.

对吧？当时我妈妈发现了，还去找我那时的女友麻烦。要知道那时女友刚失去父亲。

Right? Like, my mom figured out. She's, like, coming at my girlfriend at the time. I know. My girlfriend lost her father at the time.

那时我们还在打职业比赛。我们当时深藏柜中，始终试图保密。每件事都很艰难，压力太大了。

Like, we were also playing professionally at the time. We're closeted at the time. We are we're trying to keep things under wraps, like, the whole time. Like, everything was hard. This is a lot.

确实很多。

It was a lot.

那你稍微回顾一下。我想听听当时你家的情况。比如

So how did your backtrack a little. I wanna hear what that looked like with your family. Like

是的，那段日子很艰难。真的很艰难。那时我父母已经分开了，但我与妈妈和兄弟姐妹们非常非常亲近。

Yeah. It was rough. Yeah. It was really rough. So my parents were split at this time, but very, very close to my mom and my siblings.

对于我的兄弟姐妹们来说，我一直像是他们的第二个母亲，这其实并不好。我首先告诉了我高尔夫圈里的密友和童年玩伴。他们都很爱我，接纳了我。这对他们来说都非常震惊。

And to my siblings, I have always been like a second mother to them, which doesn't help. And I told all my close friends in the golf world and my childhood friends first. They all loved me. They embraced me. It was very shocking to all of them.

但他们依然爱我。然后我告诉了兄弟姐妹们，他们那时大概九岁、七岁或者八岁、六岁。我记得我坐在弟弟身边告诉他："情况是这样的，我不再和某某在一起了，我想我爱上了别人。"他当时就说："哦。"

And but they loved me. And then I told my siblings, and they're, like, I don't know, nine and seven or eight and six at this time. And I remember sitting with my my brother and telling him, this is the situation. You know, I I'm not seeing so and so anymore, and I think I love someone else. And he was like, okay.

"很好啊。"我说："这个别人是个女人。"他以为就像是闺蜜那种。

Great. That's great. And I said, this someone else is a woman. And he thought, like, okay. Like a best friend.

我说："不，弟弟。就像我之前看待某某那样，我现在也是这样看待她。不幸的是，我必须离开家，因为这里对我不安全，我不会被接纳。" 他说："我不明白。"

And I'm like, no, brother. I like just like how I saw so and so, this is how I see her. And, unfortunately, I have to leave the home because it's not gonna be safe for me here. It's I'm not gonna be welcome. And he was like, I don't understand.

比如，她让你开心吗？我说，是的。然后他说，那有什么问题？我说，只是...只是这没那么简单，兄弟，很不幸。我只想让你做个大男孩，你要在家里撑起一片天。

Like, does she make you happy? And I said, yeah. And he goes, and what's wrong? And I said, it's just it's just it's not that easy, brother, unfortunately. And just I want you to be a big boy, and you're gonna hold it down here at the home.

我们就这样对着彼此啜泣。我觉得他哭得更厉害是因为看到我在哭，而他并不理解。

And we are just sobbing to one another. And I think he's crying more so because he sees me crying because he's not understanding.

是啊。他就这样，

Yeah. He's like,

这么重大的成人对话发生在这么小的年纪，我回想起来就觉得，哇。我真希望不用以那种方式让他这么快长大成人。但我预感到即将发生什么。母亲的直觉让她发现了。情况相当混乱。

this really huge adult conversation very young, and I look back at it, and I'm like, wow. I wish that I didn't have to give make him an adult so fast in that manner. But I knew what was coming. And so mother's intuition, she found out. It was pretty tumultuous.

正如我所料，她感觉失去了女儿。我不再是她想象中的那个人了。她以为我的目标和所有梦想都会消失。她仿佛在哀悼她为我设想的另一种人生的逝去。嗯。

And just like I had thought, she felt like she lost her daughter. I wasn't who she thought she was anymore. She thought my goals and everything that I wanted was gonna disappear. She felt like she was grieving a loss of a life that she wanted for me. Mhmm.

有趣的是，我知道她这么做完全是出于保护，因为她明白我的生活会因此艰难许多，尤其是在高尔夫球界。但那一刻她反而带来了最大压力。直到两三年后她才回心转意，是因为看到我在那段感情中伤痕累累的样子——这让她最终妥协。那是我第一次真正明白，爱确实能战胜许多东西。

And what's funny is that I know that she did it out of so much protection because she knew how much harder my life would be, especially being in the golf world. But she actually added the most stress at that moment. And it wasn't until two to three years later that she came back around, but she came back around because she saw how broken I was from that given relationship Oh. That it made her give in. And it was the first time where I really saw, like, love can really override many things.

真的可以。如果一个人真心爱你，这份爱能超越信仰、宗教或其他任何障碍。我母亲就是活生生的例子。虽然那艰难的三年里我没少让她操心——当时我正努力成为职业高尔夫球手。

It really can. Like, if someone truly loves you, it can override your beliefs, your religion, whatever it is. And my mom was living proof of that. And I can give her all the hardest time for those those tough three years. And I'm trying to be a professional golfer at this time.

你知道吗？我现在钱都快花光了。银行账户是负的，想打球又受伤，还躲在柜子里，各种糟心事。但当我妈看到我的时候，她张开双臂欢迎我回来。

You know? My money is draining right now. I'm, like, negative in the bank, trying to play, getting injured, closeted, all that shit. And but my my mom welcomed me back with open arms when she saw me

哦。

Oh.

只是因为她不敢相信我当时的处境。是的，之后不久我就原谅了她。这种经历虽然疯狂，却让我们关系升华了，但这是必须经历的。

Just because she could not believe the state that I was in. Yeah. And I forgave her pretty soon thereafter. And it was a very, very crazy way to evolve our relationship, but it needed to happen.

当然。

Of course.

是啊。

Yeah.

那你觉得这会对你的高尔夫生涯产生什么影响？

What how did you see that playing out in your golf world?

老兄，太难了。真的太难了。而且高尔夫圈里有个隐藏的同志群体，但他们他妈的根本不向我敞开大门。我就想，难道就因为我看上去不像，你们就不欢迎我吗？

Man, it was tough. Yeah. It was so tough. And, like, again, there's like this hidden and gay society that never fucking opened the door to me. And I'm like, just because I didn't look it doesn't mean you don't welcome me.

这本来会让我感到安全得多。当时我还是个初出茅庐的职业高尔夫球手，四处闯荡。我在巡回赛第一年意识到自己的性取向，又坚持打了几年。我们告诉密友说我和某某在一起，我们都在参赛。基本上所有人都为我们保守了这个秘密。

It would have made me feel a lot safer. So I'm romping around as this pretty new professional golfer. I had one year on tour, realized my sexuality, played another couple years on tour, grinding it out. And we're telling our close friends that, you know, some me and so and so were together, and we're both playing. And everyone essentially kinda held this secret for us.

哇。而且看到这么多人愿意如此保护你，感觉真的很酷。对吧？正因如此，我深爱着那些和我一起参赛的女孩们。但这始终是个拉锯战，因为高尔夫赞助商通常是年长的白人男性。

Wow. And it and it was kind of it was cool to see in such a way as, like, how many people would go as far to protect you. Right? Like, in that way, I I love the girls that I played on tour with because of that. But it was always gonna be a push and pull because sponsors in golf are typically older white males.

你总是要和那些地位比你高的人共处一室，而他们通常都是保守的男性。是啊。而我现在他妈的正试图搞明白自己是谁。所以我不得不持续扮演双重角色——比如这个人是我爱的人。

You are always in the room with people who are higher than you that are typically conservative and male. Yeah. And I'm just trying to figure myself the fuck out right now. Yeah. And so I'm constantly having to play two sides of me of, like, this is a person I that I love.

她就和我同处一室，但没人能知道我们超越了友谊。因为需要赞助，我还得对她保持专业态度。妈的。这处境真操蛋——我需要钱打职业赛，但你们不能知道我的秘密，否则可能会退缩。而我爱的人就在眼前。

She's in the same room as me, but no one can know that this exists beyond beyond friendship, and I'm gonna be professional to this person because I need a sponsorship. Shit. And so it's like this really shitty place of, like, I need money to play pro, but you can't know the secret about me because it may deter you. And the person that I love is right there. Yeah.

我们俩都在经历这些。这远比原本该有的难度大得多。在那段关系里，曾有男人威胁要曝光我们——想想看吧。

And we're both going through this. And it was just so much harder than it had to be. Through that relationship, there was a moment where someone tried to threaten outing us, a man. Go figure.

是啊。

Yeah.

他妈的不出所料。这在很多方面都极其阴险。最后事情发展到我们再也无法隐瞒，但我们的关系也同时破裂了。于是一切都在瞬间土崩瓦解。

Go fucking figure. And that was really, really just treacherous in so many ways. And it then came to the point where we can't contain it anymore, but we were also falling apart. And so it kinda just all unraveled at once.

靠。比如什么？比如分手后你不得不公开出柜？是啊。但这简直了，我的天。

Shit. Like what? Like your breakup and then you having to come out? Yeah. But this oh my god.

好吧。等等。

Yeah. Okay. Wait.

怎么？什么？对。所以这一切几乎同时发生。现在到了2018年，分手的事开始发酵。

How? What? Yeah. So so it all timed out pretty all close together. So now we're in 2018 and the breakup was unraveling.

天啊。我和前任一起上了个电视节目，在高尔夫真人秀里互为对手。结果她居然把我淘汰了。我恨死这安排了，当时整个人都懵了。

Oh my god. Like, we actually were on a TV show together, me and my ex, and we're competing against one another in this golf TV show. And she's the one who fucking knocked me out. Oh, I hate I hate that. I'm like, what is happening right now?

参赛的女选手都知道我们是一对，男选手们却只当这是场比赛。我心想你们根本不懂，这背后的水深着呢。

And then all the girls that are in the competition know the truth that we're together. All the men are like, it was a big deal. It's just like a competition. And I'm like, you don't understand. This is so much more depth right now.

现在这已经不只是奖金的问题了，是我们的感情。节目结束后没多久我们就散了。那时我回到母亲身边，向她坦白了一切。当时自尊心作祟——

This is more than just the money right now. This is our relationship. And so sooner after the show happens, we kinda fall apart. That's when I come back home to my mom, and I tell her all the truth. And there was so much pride.

对吧？因为向母亲屈服意味着她还会抱有幻想，希望我不是同性恋，希望我能变回从前。但我真的走投无路了，懂吗？

Right? Because I knew that giving in to my mom would also mean that her hopes of me not being gay would be there. Her hopes of me being who I was would be there. And I just had no other resort. You know?

我妈妈一直是我的坚强后盾。所以我回到了她身边。她原谅了我。这就像是前进三步，后退十步。前进三步，后退十步。

My mom was always my backbone. And so I came back to her. She forgave me. It was always like three steps forward, 10 steps back. Three step 10 steps back.

最后，我不得不一直公开和她谈论这些事。比如我要去约会了。比如我在这儿。这就像暴露疗法。是的。

And finally, it came where I just had to openly talk to her about it all the time. Like, I'm gonna go on a date. Like, I am here. It's like exposure therapy. Yes.

是的。虽然缓慢但确实有效。后来发展到我弟弟们都说，妈妈，拜托别这样了。冷静点。冷静点。

Yes. Slowly but surely. And it came to the point where my younger brothers were like, mom, just like fucking come on. Like, chill. Chill.

让她去约会吧拜托。她每次回家都更加心碎。别再烦她了懂吗？

Like, let let her fucking date. Come on. Like, she's coming home broken harder every time. Like, just stop stop getting on her. You know?

不久之后，当一切逐渐平息时，高尔夫界已经隐约猜到了真相。只是没人明说。就像是——

And so soon thereafter, when everything is kind of under wraps, at this point, the golf world has kind of, like, put it two and two together. And it just hasn't been said out loud. It's like

这个糟糕的高尔夫圈内人？还是说连观众和看比赛的人也猜到了？

this really shitty Okay. Internal golf world or, like, even people watching and, like, spectators?

如果观众也猜到了我一点都不会惊讶。确实。确实有过这样的时刻。有人走过来对我说，我看到你们在一起了。

I wouldn't be surprised if people watching put two and two together too. Yeah. Yeah. There are moments. I mean, there have been times where, people have come up to me and they're like, I saw you guys together.

比如，我就觉得，是的，我们总在一起。不，我看到你们在一起。我的心跳加速，完全不受控制，随时处于战斗或逃跑状态。

Like, and I'm like, yeah, we're always together. No. I saw you guys together. And I'm and the way my heart would race, it's like, there is no regulation whatsoever. I'm in fight or flight at all times.

所以我只是接受高尔夫球界怎么想就怎么想，但他们没听到我的任何说法。就这样。我试图长期保密，但我需要理清我生活中到底发生了什么。我需要确保我爱的人依然在我身边。之后无论发生什么，我都能接受。

And so I was just kind of accepting of whatever the golf world thinks they think, but they haven't heard anything from me. And that's that. And I've tried to keep it under wraps for a long time, but I need to iron out what what the fuck is happening in my life. I need to make sure that everyone that I love is still beside me. And whatever happens after that, I'll be okay.

当我得到母亲的支持后，不得不告诉父亲。他对发生的事一无所知，过着自己的生活，一直试图乞求回到我的生活中。我告诉他，你缺席的原因是我正在和一位女性交往，现在这段关系不同了。

Once I have my mom's back, I had to tell my dad. My dad doesn't know anything that's going on. He's kinda living his own life. He's been trying to beg to get back into my life. And I told him the reason why you haven't been in my life is because I am seeing a woman, and this is now a different relationship.

她是最后一个知道的。我和他说话时充满骄傲，因为就像在说：你搞砸了很多事，所以你没资格用看失败者的眼光看我

And she was the last to know. And I was very much prideful when I spoke to him because it was like, well, you fucked up a lot, so you cannot be you cannot look at me like I'm a fucked

这样的人。爆发了。

up person. Flared.

就像，你不行。我们熬过了那段时期。之后很快，大约六七个月内，我告诉家人我要公开出柜。我知道你们不同意。

Like, you cannot. And we made it through that. And so soon thereafter, this is all, like, in the span of, like, six six, seven months. That's when I told my family, like, I'm gonna be coming out publicly. And I know that you don't agree with this.

我知道这对你们来说已经非常艰难，但我觉得必须这么做，因为我想停止那些窃窃私语，不想再解释自己，不想每天都要出柜一次。我受够了不停地出柜。我知道在这个世界上这很难，就算失去所有粉丝我也不在乎。

I know that this is already extremely hard for you, but I feel like I just have to do this because I want the whispers to stop. I want to stop explaining myself. I want to stop coming out every day. I'm really tired of fucking coming out. And I know that this is really hard in the world that we're in, and I don't care if I lose all my followers.

我不在乎失去所有机会，我只需要实现这个目标。这对我妈妈和家人来说很难接受。他们问：你真的必须这么做吗？我说：是的。

I don't care if I lose all my opportunities. I just need this to be. And that was a really hard pill for my mom to swallow, my family to swallow. They were like, you really have to do this? I'm like, yes.

没错，我们决定了。我们正在做这件事。实际上我和PGA巡回赛合作了，他们帮我策划了官宣。我当时就想：既然要做，就要搞得声势浩大。

Yeah. We are. We're doing this. And so I actually partnered with the tour, with the PGA tour, and they helped me they helped me with my announcement. And I was like, well, if we're gonna do it, we're gonna do it big.

那具体是什么样子的？

What did that look like?

是啊，那简直疯狂得超出必要程度。我当时就想：我非做不可。

Yeah. It was Well, it was crazy. Than it needed to be. It was I'm gonna do it.

我非做不可

I'm gonna do it

用最盛大的方式呈现。到处都是摄像机——我家、我最亲密的朋友、高尔夫球圈的闺蜜、发小们都参与了。我妈妈也实际出镜了。

as the biggest way possible. Cameras. Cameras everywhere. Cameras in my home, my closest friends, my closest golf girlfriends, my childhood friends, they were a part of it as well. My mom was actually in the piece.

哇。本质上PGA巡回赛在做一支骄傲主题的宣传片，他们从未突出过骄傲主题。这对我们意义重大，对吧？非常重大。

Wow. And, essentially, the PGA tour was doing, like, a pride piece, and they had never highlighted pride. This is a big deal to us. Right? Big deal.

于是他们做了一个系列节目，专门介绍几位酷儿个体，大概四五个，我是最后一个被介绍的。哇，其实没人知道我在名单上。可能只有高尔夫圈内人知道。这就是我出柜的方式。

And so they did a series where they just highlighted queer individuals, like, four or five, and I was the last one to be highlighted. Wow. No one really knows I'm in the lineup. Maybe, like, you know, insider golf people may know. And that was how I came out.

我是那个系列中最后被揭晓的人，日期是2019年6月29日。我们公开出柜了。我在社交媒体上分享了这件事，当时心想：就这样吧。我记得自己紧张到想吐，记得注销了所有账号，还把密码交给了朋友。

I was the last person to be revealed in that, and it was, like, 06/29/2019. And we came out publicly. I shared it on social media, and I was like, this is it. Like, I remember wanting to barf. I remember logging off all my shit, and I gave my passwords to my friends.

我当时完全不敢看。真的喘不过气来。呃。爱怎样就怎样吧。但我的经纪人和团队都说：我们支持你。

And I'm like, I cannot look. I literally can't breathe right now. Ugh. Whatever happens happens. But my agent and my team were like, we stand with you.

别担心。不管发生什么，我们总能挺过去的。等我重新上线看到反馈时，80%到90%都是正面的。哦，这已经是最理想的情况了。

Don't worry. Like, whatever happens, we will make it through kinda thing. And I get back online and I see the response, and 80% 90% were positive. Oh. And it was the best case scenario.

懂吗？当然也有少数人说什么'我们要用祈祷消除同性恋'之类的屁话，'你们该下地狱'啦'十字架'啦。我就想说：去他妈的。

You know? Like, there was definitely a few of, like, the we're gonna pray the gay away kind of shit. We should go to hell and blah blah blah and on the cross. And I'm like Yeah. Fuck that.

好吧随便吧。我的上帝是爱我的。我不知道还能跟你说什么。那之后，说实话这是我经历过最自由的时刻。

Like, okay. Whatever. Like, my god loves me. I don't know what to tell you. And after that, it was honestly the most freeing experience.

你知道，我真的感觉——就像，我感觉

Like, you know I feel so really I'm like, I feel

就像我经历了一段旅程

like I've been on a journey

我明白。我正在努力。试着去生活。天啊。感觉太多了，就像，崛起。

over I know. I'm getting yeah. It's try living it. Like, holy shit. It's like so much, like like, rise.

那一刻就像是，我第一次感觉终于为自己做出了选择。是的。我所做的一切，都是为了赢取他人的认可，为了得到这份工作，为了让家人骄傲，照顾朋友和家人。所以那一刻，我觉得我需要你们都站在我身边。我要求的不多，

And then that moment was, like, the first moment that I felt like I finally chose myself. Yes. Like, everything I'm doing is, like, to win and to appease other people, to get this gig and appease other people, make my family proud, you know, take care of my friends and family. And so that moment, I was like, this is the moment that I need you all to stand beside me. I don't ask for much,

但这就是了。多么美好的信息啊，我浑身起鸡皮疙瘩。对你内心的小孩来说，是的。你总是把胜利等同于爱，把优秀等同于爱。而这个时刻你意识到，这就是真实的我。

but this is it. And what a beautiful, like, message to I have, like, chills. Like, to your inner child because Yes. You always equated, like, winning with love and being good with love. And this was this moment where you were like, this is just who I am.

我就是这样，无法改变。而你被爱所接纳，

Like, I can't help it. And you were received with love,

这太治愈了。是的，老兄。那感觉无比治愈。就像我说的，高尔夫是个非常保守的世界，它就是这样。这是我唯一知道的。

and that is so healing. It yes, dude. It was it was so incredibly healing. And even just to, like like I said, you know, golf is a very conservative world, and and it it just it just is. It's all I know.

对吧？但在那个时刻之后公开露面，有年长的男人哭着来找我说，我看到那个公告了。我真的很高兴你能做自己。哇。知道我在那时对人们产生了或大或小的影响，改变了那些原本不会改变看法的人，仅仅因为他们爱上了我和我的个性，这感觉太奇妙了。

Right? And but to go out in public after that moment and I had I've had men, older men come to me crying saying, like, I saw I saw the announcement. I'm just so happy that you get to be you. Wow. And, like, to know that I had that little or big of an impact during that time to change a perspective upon people who would never look the other way just because they they fell in love with me and my persona and who I am.

我改变了他们的看法。这让我真切感受到我的使命远不止于此——不仅仅是成为最优秀、最有影响力的高尔夫球手，而是去他妈的，要成为你能做到的最优秀的人。

I was able to change their perspective. It really felt like my calling was so much bigger than just like, okay. Let's be the best, you know, influential golfer that you can be. It really became like, no. Let's just be the best fucking human you can be.

我们要尝试在周围传播更多的爱，这才是真正重要的。

And let's just try and, like, bring more, like, love all around. And that's really what

我从那次经历中领悟到的。那么这具体是怎样的？因为现在这就是你的世界，你正活在其中。是的。

I got out of that experience. So what does that looked like? Because now that is your world. You are living that. Yeah.

对你而言这段旅程是怎样的？

So what does that journey looked like for you?

所以我的意思是，在那之后，或者说... 嗯，是的。

So, I mean, like, after that or like Well, yeah.

就像你如何将那次经历... 是的... 转化为现在你成为的象征。现在你是那个发声者，

Just like how you took that that experience Yeah. And turn that into now you are the representation. And now you are the voice and

你正试图创造改变。没错就是这样。兄弟，我成为了那个声音。我当时想，天啊，我没想到这背后承载的责任和重量。

you're trying to create change. Well, exactly that. Like, bro, I came I became the voice. I was like, oh, shit. Like, I didn't realize the responsibility and the weight that it carried.

对吧？因为，我现在对体育界尤其是高尔夫球界的同性恋群体有了一些接触，很多人主动联系我。有男子职业选手，更多是女子选手，还有不少普通高尔夫爱好者，他们说：'我热爱高尔夫，但一直藏在柜子里。听到你的故事让我感到被看见，现在我有勇气出柜了。'我起初并未准备好承担这份责任的重担，但我还是接下了。

Right? Because, again, there's I'm now being a little bit exposed to the gay world in sports and especially in the golf world, I had so many people reach out to me. Some pro on the men's side, a lot on the women's side, and then a lot of just people in general that were like, I love golf. I've always been in the closet and, like, hearing your story makes me feel seen, and now I feel encouraged to wanna come out. I wasn't necessarily prepared for the weight of that responsibility after, but I stepped into it.

因为我出柜的原因正是缺乏代表性，我需要成为那个能为像小蒂什这样的人提供支持的存在。我内心有个声音在说：'妈的，如果这事没人做过，那还有多少人可能像我一样因此自我伤害？'无论是在体育界还是其他领域。这个想法后来真的应验了。

Because the reason why I came out was because there was no representation, and I needed to be someone that could be there for a little Tish. Right? And there was some part of me that was like, well, fuck. If this hasn't been done, then imagine how many other people could be in my shoes that could be hurting themselves maybe because of it, right, in sports or in general. And so that thought that came to my mind really became true.

是的。之后从商业角度自然打开了更多机会之门，这当然很棒——虽然这不是我出柜的初衷。我不是为了挥舞彩虹旗换取机遇才站出来的。

Yeah. And after that, there were a lot of doors opening naturally from a business perspective because I came out, which was obviously amazing. It's not the reason for coming out. I'm not here to wave rainbow flags for opportunity. Right.

我当时想的是：'六月到了，老子该发光了！冲啊！拿下那些酷炫的事！'但实际情况完全不是那样。

And, like, I'm like, oh, June. My time is fucking shine. Let's fucking go. Let's get that dope. And like, it was never that.

这确实变成了我的责任。很多高尔夫球手现在都以这种眼光看待我。我不敢说自己是什么先驱，但确实注意到现在高尔夫界有更多人敢于说出真相了。如果这是我引发的涟漪效应，那就是我最大的心愿。

And it it really became like, now it's my responsibility Yeah. To to be this person. And I think a lot of people in the golfer look to me in that way. I I don't wanna say that I pioneered it by any means, but I do I have noticed that there has been a lot more confidence in other people to speak their truths that are in the golf world now. And if that is a ripple effect because of me, then that's that's all I could have asked for.

如今高尔夫界的代表性已经强了很多，相关话题也更多被讨论。我感觉自己可能成了那个标志性人物，因为我是最早公开出柜的之一。之前有几个LPGA球员出柜，但她们的方式更像是'这就是我本来的样子'。

Yeah. And we are here now where there is a lot more representation in golf. It's spoken about more, and I kinda feel like that I may be that token child because I was one of the first to really come out. Like, there was a couple LPGA players that kinda came out, but they did it in a in a way that was like, this just is. I just am.

没错。她们让这件事显得如此自然——这本就该是常态，对吧？

Yeah. And they made it so natural. But that's like the goal. Right? Right.

就像你开始分享你的伴侣，男朋友或随便什么。好吧，你甚至开始分享你他妈的女朋友。现在你就这样生活。这，这就是个目标。

It's like just like you you start to share your partner, your boyfriend or whatever. Okay. You could just start sharing your fucking girlfriend. Now you live life as is. Like, that's a that's a goal.

但高尔夫还没到那一步。是啊，还是有点令人震惊。

But golf is just not there yet. Yeah. It's still a little shocking.

嗯，而且在很多方面，甚至整个世界都是这样。

Well, and in many ways, like, even the world.

在世界上。

In the world.

不是。是啊。

Isn't. Yeah.

对。这就像退了一步。是啊。是啊。

Right. It's like a step back. Yeah. Yeah.

这就是那种事情，你知道，因为我受到很多批评，说什么'把同性恋当成你整个人格'。嗯，你说得对。是啊。但总得有人这样。是啊。

It is just one of those things that's like, you know, because I get a lot of criticism that's like, well, make being gay your whole personality. Well, you're right. Yeah. But like there has to be people like that. Yeah.

必须要有这样的人。是的。因为如果没有很多人发声说，嘿，我是同性恋，看看我，做这样的人很酷。那么你所说的那些人就永远没有这样的机会。并不是说我是个殉道者，而是我喜欢这样。

There has to be. Yeah. Because if there's not a lot of people making noise and saying like, Hey, I'm gay, look at me, like, this is a cool thing to be. Then like those people that you're saying they never get that opportunity. So not that I'm like some martyr, like I like it.

我喜欢

I like

我所做的事，你知道吗？但这也像是，我们需要

what I do, you know? But it's also just like, we need

世界上有各种各样这样的人，那些愿意站在镜头前说，是的，看看我选择的生活方式，这些人同样值得赞扬。你懂我的意思吗？就像...不，确实如此。每个人的代表形式看起来都不一样。

all different types of these people in the world and the people who are okay being in front of the cameras and being like, yes, look at look at the way I like to live my life, then, like, those people deserve credit too. You know what I mean? Like No. For sure. Everything just looks representation looks different for everyone.

是的。完全同意。特别是对我来说，我不得不向外寻找才能找到代表。嗯。

Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like like for me, especially, like, I had to look outward to even find representation. Mhmm.

对吧？就像我当年出柜的时候，我真的去搜索了。我敢肯定其他小女同们也这么搜过。怎么知道自己是不是同性恋？哦，当然。

Right? Like back when I was coming out, I literally looked I literally googled. I'm sure other other little lesbians said this too. How do you know if you're gay? Oh, of course.

我的搜索记录简直乱七八糟。我什么都不懂。我谁也不认识。所以我在YouTube上看到那些情侣博主时就想，哦，我明白你为什么这么迷恋他们了，因为除此之外根本没有其他代表。

My search bar was fucked up. I didn't know shit. I didn't know anyone. And so, like, I'm, like, on YouTube and seeing, like, all the little YouTube influencers that are, like, couples. I'm like, oh, I see why you're so enamored by them because there wasn't representation outside of this.

当然，我正在查资料。有Tumblr，然后是YouTube，最后是Instagram。你会觉得，好吧，这还挺正常的。

Of course. I'm looking it up. There's, like, Tumblr, and then there's YouTube, and then and then finally Instagram. And you're like, okay. There is some normalcy to this.

是的，我能做到。而且我是高尔夫界首批这么做的人之一。没关系，但除此之外还有常态。

Yeah. I can do this. And I'm just one of the first to do it in the golf world. That's okay. But there is normalcy outside of this.

我不得不向外看

I had to look outward

没错。为了感觉好受些。是的，然后把那种感觉

Yes. To feel okay. Yes. And then bring that

带回来。把它带回来。这在高尔夫界

back in. Bring it back in. What does

是什么样子？现在你会在哪里谈论它？或者说，你现在有什么机会能说，是的，这就是真实的我。

that look like in the golf world? Where now do you talk about it? Or, like, what opportunity do you get now to be like, yes. This is who I am.

所以能公开谈论这些的机会没有我期望的那么多，这也是为什么我真的很享受和你在一起的时光，因为我能分享那些深层次的东西——不是要提起黑暗面，但确实与之相伴的阴暗。但当我能够真实展现自我时，说实话这就像一份礼物。因为当我以真实面目出现时，由于我对外展现的自我和立场如此鲜明，那种存在感就自然产生了。在这种情况下，当我被允许通过那些以前可能根本不可能对我敞开的大门时，我知道他们接受的是完整的我，包括我的一切信念。即使我没机会提及这些，你也知道你将面对什么。是的。

So there's, like, not as much opportunity to speak out about it as much as I wish, which is, like, why I really enjoy being here with you because I get to share, like, the depths and not to bring up the darkness, but, yeah, like, the darkness that comes with it. But the way that I I'm able to show up, it's it's it's honestly, like, it's a gift in the same way is that when I show up as I am because I am so outward with who I am and what I stand for, the presence is now automatically there. And I think in that in that right, when I'm let through doors that maybe weren't even a possibility before, I know that they're accepting me for everything that comes with me, everything that I believe in. Even if I don't get to bring it up, you know what you're getting. Yeah.

你知道，就像，你接受我这样的风险。对我来说，他们怎么想都无所谓。所以我认为这就是当下代表性的样子。每当话题自然出现时，比如人们谈论或问起我的个人生活，我都不会回避。我会大方谈论我的未婚夫。

You know, like, you get the risk that I am. I'm like, whatever whatever that may be to them. And so I think in that way, that's what representation looks like now. And anytime that it naturally comes up, like, when people talk, ask me about my personal life, I don't shy away. I'll tell you about my fiance.

我会分享我的订婚故事，会讲述我的生活点滴，就像在聊普通异性恋情侣一样自然。我能做的最好的事或许不是在高尔夫界强行灌输观念，而是让这一切变得平常。是的，你们听得越多，见得越多，尤其从我这里看到的越多，一切就会越好。这就是现在的样子。

I'll tell you about my engagement. I'll tell you about, like, my my moments, and I will talk to you as if we are just talking about a normal straight couple. And the best thing that I can do is maybe not stuff it down your throat in the golf world, but I can just normalize Yes. And the more you hear it, the more you see it, the more you see it from me, then the better everything will be. So that's kind of how it looks like now.

当然在骄傲月期间会有更多关注和亮点之类的。但我很感激人们在骄傲月之外也关注我和我的故事。我们终于到了可以随时庆祝的阶段。是的，虽然还需要更多推动，但我们正在进步。

And then, of course, pride month, there's, like, a little more noise there and a little more highlights and stuff like that. And I appreciate when people highlight me and my story outside of pride month. I think we're finally getting to that point where we can just celebrate this at any point. Yep. But there can still be more push, but we are getting there.

你看到了哪些进展？嗯。那么你希望未来发展到什么方向？

What's the progress you've seen? Mhmm. And then what's where's, like, where you want to see it go

是的，进展很快？自从201年公开出柜以来，到现在有越来越多组织关注体育界的LGBTQ+群体。而且最近还出现了专门探讨高尔夫与酷儿文化的组织，这是去年和今年才兴起的新现象。哇。

Yeah. Soon? So the progress ever since so 2019 is when it came out. And up until now, there are so many more organizations that that highlight LGBTQ plus community and in sport. And, also, there are there are many that are coming out now that actually highlight golf and queerness, which is something that's been done more so, like, last year and this year Wow.

这太棒了。要知道在当今世界环境下这居然能成为可能，我们尤其需要这样的空间，让这个群体在体育界感到安全。所以现在有了更多组织、更多支持，这是好事。对话也明显增多了。

Which is amazing. Like, to know that that's even a place that it could be possible, especially with climate of the world right now, like, we need that right now so that so that, you know, the community can feel safe, especially in this sport. And so there's been a lot more organizations. There's been a lot more support, which has been good. There's been a lot more conversation.

我认为当人们愿意开启对话时，我们就处在更好的阶段了。因为在2019年之前，这个话题根本没人讨论，甚至不被看见。直到现在LPGA巡回赛上还有不少我认识的球员，至今仍害怕以过于高调的方式出柜，因为不想失去现有的一切。

And I think that when people are open to having the conversation period, then we're in a better place. Because, like, legitimately before 2019, it was not talked about. It wasn't talked about. It wasn't even seen. Like, there's still a number of players that I know on the LPGA tour that are fearful to this day of coming out in a manner that's, like, maybe too loud because I don't want to give up what they have.

嗯。虽然我觉得我们现在处于一个你可以做到且不会显得疯狂的状态。真的，我保证。世界会继续运转，回应也会如约而至。

Mhmm. Even though I feel like we're in a place where, like, you can do it and it won't be crazy. Like, I promise. Like, the world will keep on revolving and the responses will be there.

但当你的身份与金钱绑定时，那种影响真的很疯狂。这确实非常艰难。

But It's crazy when it's tied when your identity is tied to your money, what that can do. That's it's really tough.

这种说法真的很棒。

That's a really great way to say it.

因为它与你的生存息息相关。

Because it's tied to your survival.

我觉得这确实很难。是的，它与生存紧密相连。但正如我所说，这方面已经有了很大改善。

I think it's like it's hard. Yeah. It's tied to your survival. Yeah. But like I said, there's been so much improvement in it.

我认为如果说有什么变化的话，实际上现在对双性恋和女同性恋群体的开放度更高了。嗯。我觉得体育界乃至整个社会面临的难题，其实是男同性恋群体——在强调阳刚之气的体育界，男性出柜真的特别艰难。实际上我认为这是个更加不稳定的领域。有意思。

I think if anything, there's actually a lot more openness towards bisexuality and the lesbian community. Mhmm. I think what's hard in sport and and what we see in general is actually the gay men community, and it's really hard in sports where you're supposed to be masculine to have men come out. I actually think it's a much more volatile place. Interesting.

因为女子体育界向来以拥有强大的LGBTQ+传统和社群著称，对吧？比如我们有女子篮球、女子足球，这些都是毋庸置疑的。

Because women's sports is known to have a strong LGBTQ plus lore and community within it. Right? And, like, we have women's basketball. We have women's soccer. There is no question.

他们对此持开放态度。这某种程度上也是我们看到可以引入高尔夫领域的路线图。这种现象确实存在。但对男性群体来说，我们可能只有寥寥几人，比如一两个，其中一个是橄榄球运动员。确实有位男性高尔夫球手公开出柜了，虽然他未达到顶尖水平，但确实引起了轰动。

They're open about it. And that's also, like, kind of the road map that we see that we're able to bring into golf. So it exists. But for men in general, we have maybe, like, three guys, couple that are, like, one a football player. And I do we do have a male golfer that has come out, but he didn't play at the highest level, but he did make noise.

说实话，我觉得那是个更令人恐惧的处境。哦，是啊。比如男子体育项目。对。在男子体育界公开出柜。

And I think that's an even honestly, a scarier place to be. Oh, yeah. Like men's sports. Yeah. And coming out of men's sports.

我甚至无法想象那时的更衣室会是什么样子。是啊。所以当我...

Like, I don't even know what that locker room can look like at that point. Yeah. And so when I

我以前经常这样告诫我弟弟。对。在更衣室里说话要当心，因为你永远不知道。你永远不知道谁和你共处一室。你可能觉得...

always used to tell my brother that. Like Yeah. You need to be careful about what you say in the locker room because you never know. Like, you never know who's in there with you. And you might not think that.

你可能自以为了解别人，但...

And you might think you know people, but

是啊。

Yeah.

你懂的。

You know.

是的。不。我是说，太真实了。我觉得，面对我所知的挑战，以及像我这样的人所面对的挑战是一回事。但当我们能让字母表中的每个人都感到舒适时，那才是真正的进步。

Yeah. No. I mean, so true. Like, I I think it's one thing to fight the battles that I know that I face and, like, people like me face. But when we get to the point of being able to feel comfortable for everyone a part of the alphabet, then I know we're really getting somewhere.

是的。我们还没到那一步。完全没有。完全没有。

Yeah. We're just not there yet. Yeah. Not at all. Not at all.

我是说，总体上。是的。

I mean, in general. Yeah.

我们会做到的。这真的太棒了。非常感谢你的分享。不客气。

We'll there. This has been absolutely incredible. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing. No.

谢谢。太棒了。我有个问题想问每个人。是的。最后一个问题。

Thank you. Incredible. So I have one question that I ask everybody. Yes. One last question.

你在心理治疗中正在解决什么问题？

What are you working on in therapy?

哦，天哪。哇。我在心理治疗中解决什么问题？这是个好问题。我和我的治疗师正在努力培养放下的能力。

Oh, gosh. Wow. What am I working on in therapy? That's a great question. I am I'm my therapist and I were really working on the ability to let go.

我觉得说起来容易做起来难。尤其是在我们讨论过的那个世界里，内卷文化、拼命工作和完美主义同时存在。这似乎是我与生俱来的一部分。我天生就是个擅长收拾残局的人，我就是那种人。

And I think that that's just so much easier said than done. Like, especially in a world where, you know, we talked about it, like, hustle culture and the grind and perfectionism all at the same time. It it's kind of, like, innately a part of me. And I do I'm someone who naturally does a lot of damage control. I'm that person.

我是个解决问题的人。看到问题我就想：别哭，我来搞定。我就是那种人。

I'm a problem solver. I see a problem. I'm like, don't cry. I'm gonna fix it. I'm that person.

是啊。

Yeah.

我正在努力学习顺其自然，学会放手，让事情自然发展。因为如果我的保护实际上是在纵容，我就需要停止这样做。这真的非常非常难，尤其当你是个长女，在文化上又一直是那个模范孩子。确实很难，因为你所处的环境永远在要求你解决问题。哇。

And I'm really learning to allow things to just be, to let things go, to allow things to play out so that if my protecting is actually enabling, I need to stop that. And that's a really, really hard thing to do, especially when you're the eldest daughter, you know, and culturally and you've been like that token child. Yeah. It's hard because you're just you're in an environment of only problem solving. Wow.

所以我觉得，放手对我来说是最难的事。

So letting go, I think, is just the hardest thing for me.

我作为长女和焦虑型依恋者深有同感。是啊。什么？我也这么想。我觉得对我最有帮助的是：设定界限不仅是对自己最好的事，对对方也是。

I really resonate as an oldest child and as an anxious attacher. Yeah. What's that? I think same thing. I think that something that's really helped me is like boundaries are the best thing that you can do for not only yourself but for the other person.

没错。因为我有个习惯，特别是对我妈妈——我总想摇晃她说：'妈，你要是能学会这个明白这个就好了'。但我已经明白了，强行灌输教训给她根本没用。所以我最好的做法是调整自己的方式，用行动向她展示。

Yeah. Because really, like I have this habit of like when I want like especially with my mom because I'm just like, I wanna shake her and be like, mom, like, if you would just learn this and if you would just know this. But like Yeah. I've learned that me beating the lesson into her head or me like, it's not gonna do anything. So the best thing I can do is like orient myself around her in a way that will show her like Yeah.

嘿，我真的不喜欢这样。这是我绝对不能容忍的事情。是的，不仅是对我妈妈，对所有人都是如此——朋友、兄弟姐妹，所有人，玛蒂尔德。实际上，我不允许这样，这不是我接受的方式。

Hey, I don't really like this. And this is something that like I don't really don't really put up with that. Yeah. I don't really and and not only with my mom, with everybody, with friends, my siblings, everybody, Matilde. It's like, actually, I don't that's not how I allow Yeah.

你知道，我不允许别人这样对待我或怎样。嗯。然后突然间，这会让对方觉得，哇。嗯。哦，好吧。

You know, people to treat me or or whatever. Mhmm. And then all of a sudden, the that now puts it on the other person to be like, woah. Mhmm. Oh, okay.

就像现在，我必须尊重你的界限，并思考你为什么设立这个界限，诸如此类。但这非常困难，因为这一切都源于爱。你会想，哦，如果我能告诉你这个，看，我可以给你捷径。

Like, now I have to respect your boundary and and examine why you're putting that boundary into place and, you know, whatever. But but it's very hard because it all comes from such a place of love. You're like, oh, but if I could just tell you this, look, I can give you the shortcut.

是的。但你永远无法给别人捷径。真的不行。就像你刚才说的，设立界限，尤其是对你最爱的事物设立界限是最难的，尤其当你是个解决问题的人。

Yes. But it's like, you can't ever give anybody the shortcut. You can't. Like, literally, exactly what you're saying. Like, giving a boundary creating a boundary, especially towards things that you love the most is the hardest, especially when you're a fixer.

你总想快速打破自己设立的界限，而这正是需要学习的部分——放手并坚持自己的承诺，彻底坚守那个界限，即使这会伤害他人。我不擅长伤害别人。真的让我心碎。唯一让我让步的就是知道我伤害了所爱之人。

You just wanna break that boundary that you've made so fast, and that's part of the learning lesson is letting go and allowing me to stay true to my word, like, radically true to my word of whatever that boundary is and, like, allowing that to to be even if it hurts other people. And I'm not I'm not good at hurting other people. Yeah. It it really breaks my soul. It's the one thing that makes me give in is knowing that I'm hurting people that I love.

但你知道吗？除非你先照顾好自己，否则你无法照顾好你爱的人。

But you know what? You cannot take care of the people that you love unless you are taking care of yourself.

确实如此。

That's true.

真的就像，你知道，我在这个世界上有过最好的朋友。是她教会了我这一课。我爱她。她叫艾瑞斯。我以前总说她自私。

And that is truly like, you know, I had I had my best friend in the world. She's the one who taught me this lesson. I love her. Her name is Iris. She, I used to call her selfish.

我过去常说，艾瑞斯很自私。就像人有时候都会自私一样。她并不介意我谈论这个。但现在我明白了，这不是她自私。

I would be like, Iris is selfish. Like you can be selfish sometimes. She's she's fine with me talking about this. But she and now I have learned. It's not her being selfish.

这只是她在照顾自己。如果她不想做某件事，她就不会去做，因为她不想勉强自己。所以她不会去。她会做她需要做的事来照顾自己。而我足够信任她，知道她总会回来的。

It's just her taking care of herself. If she doesn't wanna do something she's not gonna do it because she's not gonna show up in her best way. So she's not gonna go. She's gonna do what she needs to do to take care of herself. And I trust her enough that I know oh she's always gonna come back.

但这确实花了我们

But it took it took us

很多争吵，我们关系中有段非常艰难的时期，我总说'为什么婊子我要你在身边，我什么都邀请你你却从不来'。但她当时正面临自己的困境，无法出现。直到她设定了这些界限，我才明白，好吧，我足够爱她。我希望她快乐。我希望她做自己想做的事。

like arguing and we had a really tough part in our relationship where it was like, why bitch I want you around, I invite you to everything you never come like whatever. But she was struggling with her own shit and she couldn't be there. And it took her setting these boundaries with me to be like, okay maybe like I love her enough. I want her to be happy. I want her to do what she wants.

我不想控制她。这真的教会了我如何去爱一个人，就像，好吧，你只需要走你自己的路。我也要走我的路。我知道我们终会重逢，因为这就是我们的友谊。这真的很难。

I don't wanna control her. And it really taught me how to love someone in that way of like, okay, you just you gotta be on your own journey. I gotta be on mine. And then I know it's gonna come back because we're that's our friendship. And it's so hard.

但这段友谊教会了我很多关于关系的道理。它教会了我如何更好地爱玛蒂尔德。教会了我如何更好地爱我的家人，因为就像那句话：如果你爱他，就让他自由。

But that friendship has taught me so much about relationships. It's taught me how to love Matilde better. It's taught me how to love my family better because it's just like, if if you love him, you gotta let him go.

我知道。这他妈太有道理了。太难了。简直难如登天。我是说，作为菲律宾人，菲律宾人都是大家庭，大家关系非常亲密。

I know. That is a fucking preach. That's so hard. That's so hard as shit. I mean, literally, like, being Filipino, right, Filipinos were were big families, and everyone's really close.

这就像门户开放政策。你来了，家人永远优先。长话短说，菲律宾人没有边界感。所以从文化上，我已经在对抗这种...

It's very much like an open door policy. You come in, whatever your family gets priority, it's them first. They're long story short, Filipinos don't have boundaries. So culturally, I'm already up against

你们是纠缠不清的。

You're enmeshed.

是啊。这就是我的成长环境。这就是我，这就是真实的我。所以当艾什说'这根本不正常'时...

Yeah. This is my upbringing. This is my and this is who I am. Yeah. And so, like, when when Ash is like, that's just not normal.

我就觉得'可这就是我所知道的一切啊'。试着在只知道这种模式的情况下建立边界并放手，真的很难。我正在努力忘记很多很多习惯。

And I'm like, but this is, like, all I know. Yeah. You know, like, try creating a boundary and letting go when that is all you know. I'm really unlearning a lot a lot of things. Yes.

所以我懂你的感受。

And so I hear you.

我理解你。我也来自纠缠式家庭。最棒的是我们如此深爱彼此。是啊，这是世界上最美好的事。

I hear you. I come from enmeshment. It's the best it's the greatest thing that we love each other so much. Yeah. It's the greatest thing in the world.

你就像在说，他们怎么敢，怎么敢

You're like, how how dare they how dare

你说这不健康？没错。我知道。就像，是的。这就是我的生活方式。

you say this is unhealthy? Exactly. I know that. Like, yeah. This is the way I live.

是的。没错。对。我们玩个游戏，叫做你大喊，你就消失。

Yeah. Exactly. Yes. We play a game. It's called you holler, you ghost.

好的。好的。所以我们假装你又回到了约会场景。

Okay. Okay. So we're pretending like you're back in the dating scene.

当然。

Sure.

当然。你遇到一个人，他们在各方面都很完美。好吧，除了一件事。

Sure. You meet someone they are perfect in every single way Okay. Except for this one thing.

她对高尔夫一窍不通。这不会破坏关系的。没关系。好吧。

She knows nothing about golf. It's not it's not gonna break it. That's okay. Okay.

好的。是不是有个门槛？比如，你至少得知道这么多。

Okay. Is there, like, a threshold? Like, you have to know at least this much.

不。你得愿意学习才行。好吧。我喜欢这个说法。那就这样吧。

No. You had to be willing to learn. Okay. I like that. That then yeah.

当时有什么选择？是U型拖车还是消失？是U型拖车还是你玩消失？哦，你哦... 我不会马上说选U型拖车，但我们会继续探讨这个。还有第二次约会呢。

What were the options? U Haul or ghost? U Haul or you ghost? Oh, you oh, Well, I wouldn't say U Haul right away, but I we'll we'll continue to get into this. There's a second date.

好吧。行吧。也许选U型拖车。嗯。好的。

Okay. Fine. May U Haul it. Yeah. Okay.

好吧。她做的熟食拼盘是辣奇多、山羊奶酪和意大利辣香肠。你吃过这个吗？不是混在一起吃的。

Okay. When she makes a charcuterie board, it's Hot Cheetos, goat cheese, and pepperoni. Okay. Have you ever had this? Not altogether.

我吃过。但我超爱辣奇多配奶油奶酪。高中那会儿就常吃辣奇多配奶油奶酪。还有首正经的歌呢。所以没错，我会选U型拖车。

I have. But I love like Hot Cheetos and cream cheese. I was like, back in the high school day, it was like Hot Cheetos and cream cheese. There's like a legit song to it. So, yeah, I'll U Haul that.

没关系。

That's okay.

挺好的。我有个朋友说，要给我做个熟食拼盘。就这样？就这样。我当时就，

It's good. I had I had a friend who said, I'm gonna make you a charcuterie board. And that was it? And that was it. And I was like,

什么鬼

what the fuck

这个？他还说别急着评价。没试过就别

is this? And he was like, don't judge. Don't judge until

妄下结论。

you try it.

现在我觉得，其实你会介意某些事。

And now I'm like, actually, you're gonna mind something.

我会让你去洗手间。我就，

I'll send you to the bathroom. I'm like,

那那没事。没关系。就是肉、奶酪和碳水。薯片。就这样。

that's that's fine. It's fine. It's a meat, a cheese, and a carb. Chip. There you go.

是啊，从结构上来说。好吧，他们坚持把什么都唱出来，就像演音乐剧一样。比如购物清单

Yeah. Structurally. Okay. They insist on singing everything as if it's a musical. So like grocery lists

不。咖啡。不行。

No. Coffee. No.

没错，这让你很烦。

Yeah. This bothers you.

我会...那样的话...确实。

I would that would yeah.

我会直接消失。你不是喜欢音乐剧的人吗？

I would ghost that. You're not a musical person?

我是。但不能一直那样。要真实一点。比如，认真点行不行。等一下。

I am. But like, can't be that way forever. Like, to be be for real. Like, be fucking serious. One sec.

我可能会疯掉。我是菲律宾人，我们都爱唱歌，但我做不到那样。那真的太疯狂了。

I would lose it probably. Like, I'm Filipino. We all love to sing, but I couldn't do that. That's really insane. Yeah.

我是说，但也要澄清一下，我从不玩消失。对，公平。但你知道，

I I mean, but also I don't ghost people, just to be clear. Yeah. Fair. But, you know,

公平。公平。但我们

fair. Fair. But we

我们是在玩消失吗？这些选择对我来说太戏剧化了。好吧。

are we are ghosting. These are really dramatic options for me. Like, okay.

哇，我真的很喜欢和你聊天。谢谢，你能先告诉大家，说说你的高尔夫系列吗？天啊。好的。

Wow. I really enjoy talking to you. Thank you, Can you please tell everybody first, tell everybody about your golf line. Oh my god. Yes.

请向大家介绍一下，以及他们可以在哪里找到这个系列，在哪里能找到你。

Please tell everybody about it and then where they can find that and where they can find you.

好的，当然。是的，我刚创立了一个女性高尔夫服装系列，五月份才推出。实际上我们一周后就要发布第二个系列了。

Okay. Absolutely. So, yes, I just created a women's golf apparel line. We just launched May. We're actually launching our second collection in a week.

我不知道这个什么时候会播出，但大家不知道的是，下一个系列其实是淡紫色。那是一种粉色色调，是我妈妈最爱的颜色。啊。所以我打算把它命名为Circe系列，我妈妈的名字就叫Circe。

And I don't know when this is coming out, but what people don't know is that the next line is actually gonna be mauve. So it's a tone of pink, and it's my mom's favorite color. Aw. And so I'm actually naming it the Circe collection, and my mom's name is Circe.

天哪，我太喜欢这个了。

Oh my gosh. I love this.

我们在10月8日她生日那天推出了这个系列。她完全不知情，这是整个故事线的一部分，而且她是那种特别难挑选礼物的人。我想说，我确实很感谢父亲带我进入高尔夫的世界，但对母亲作为背后支柱的感激却不够。通过这个系列，我想用这种方式来表达。所以这远不止是推出第二个系列那么简单。

We launched on October 8, which is her birthday. And so she has no idea, and it's part of the whole it's part of the storyline, and it's she's one of those people that's really hard to gift. And I was like, you know, I give my dad a lot of credit for getting me into the game, but I don't give my mom enough credit for being the backbone to make it happen. And I think this is, like, my way of doing that through this collection. So it's so much deeper than just, y'all, we're launching a second collection.

是的，你们可以关注一下。去看看All In Golf，在Instagram、TikTok等平台上的账号是alyn golf。这是我的骄傲和快乐，就像我的孩子一样。

So, yes, you could follow. You could check out All In Golf. That's a l y n g o l f on Instagram, TikTok, you name it. And it's my pride and joy. It's my baby.

就像，你知道，我可以接任何工作，但这不重要。但当我看到有人穿着All In The Wild时，我就会想，那才是艺术。这就是你们能找到这个品牌的地方。它真正致力于推动女子高尔夫的发展，同时也解决实际问题。

It's like, you know, you I can get any gig. It doesn't matter. But this, like, when I see someone wearing All In The Wild, I'm like, that art. So that's where you could find the brand. It's all about really growing women's golf, but also, like, fixing problems.

因为高尔夫并不真正关心女性。你知道，这本来就不是自然而然的事。所以我想为女性设计服装，让你看起来既漂亮性感，又优雅得体，还能自由调节。有些设计会让你更灵活、更便于活动。

Like because golf doesn't, like, care about women. Like, you know, it doesn't come naturally anyways. And so I wanna actually create clothes for women like, you look good. You look sexy, but you also are posh and you can adjust it. And you have things that will make it just easier to be, like, agile and mobile.

是不是像，你把高尔夫球座

There's like, what, you put the golf tee

放在帽子里？

in the hat?

在

In the

帽子，因为把泥土和茶弄进头发里确实不好，这是我们的习惯。你知道，我们有可调节长度的裙子，无论你是四英尺十一英寸还是六英尺高，我们都能满足。这只是我们正在解决的众多问题中的一小部分，但还有更多改进即将到来。我喜欢这样。你可以在所有平台上找到我——Tisha Allen，t I s h a a l y n，包括TikTok、Instagram等等。

hat because it's actually not good to put dirt and tea in your hair because it's our habit. You know, we have the adjustable skirts and and for length so that whether you're four eleven or you're six foot, we got you covered. So lots of things and that's just a few of the problems that we're fixing, but so much more to come. I love it. And then where you can find me is at Tisha Allen, t I s h a a l y n on everything, TikTok, Instagram, all of it.

非常感谢。当然。

And so just thank you. Of course.

感谢你的到来。今天就到这里。感谢大家收听本期节目。一如既往，请通过撰写苹果商店评论、在Spotify上给我们评分、并与你认识的每个人分享来支持我们的同志议程。如果还没加入，欢迎订阅我们的会员社区Made It In，获取独家Made It Out媒体节目、内容和聊天室，网址是madeitout.supercast.com。

Thank for being here. That's a wrap. Thank you all for listening to today's episode. As always, help us the gay agenda by writing an Apple review, rating us on Spotify, and sharing with everyone you've ever met. And if you haven't yet, join our subscription community, Made It In, for exclusive Made It Out media shows, content, and chat rooms at madeitout.supercast.com.

《Made It Out》由Matilde Jordan制作，全部由女同性恋者团队完成。

Made It Out is produced by Matilde Jordan and worked on solely by lesbians.