女同版抖音与出柜故事（回顾篇）与Soph Mosca

因为我觉得我刚出柜的时候，那种感觉就像一种反抗，仿佛有一团火在我脚下燃烧，你们别想阻止我。

Because I think when I first came out, it was sort of like a I just sort of felt this like rebellion almost like, you can't stop me like fire under like fire beneath me type of thing.

然后我就开始注意到其他家庭里那些非常投入的父母，那时我才会比较一下，心想：我和我父母之间并没有那样的关系。

And then it was just sort of like, I think maybe I saw other really involved parents and that's when I would compare a bit and just sort of be like, I don't really have that with my parents.

但我认为他们已经走了很长一段路，即使我觉得他们一开始也没多糟糕。

But I think they've come a long way, even though I don't even think where they started was bad.

我觉得我真的挺幸运的。

Like I think I really lucked out.

但他们真的很努力，比如我妈妈偶尔会穿一些骄傲主题的T恤。

But like they really try, like my mom will wear little pride shirts every once in a while.

我爸爸也一直如此，他们对我带回家的每一位女友都特别包容和欢迎。

And like my dad was just continues, like they've been so welcoming too with all my girlfriends that I brought to them and everything.

是的，我觉得他们在很多方面都有了很好的进步，

And yeah, I think they've improved in a really good way,

非常温暖的方式。

really warm way.

我觉得我父母一开始也是这样的。

I think my parents were like that too at first.

那是一个教育的时刻，你可以问我关于我的女朋友的事。

It was like kind of a education moment of like, you can ask me about my girlfriends.

你可以问问题。

You can like ask questions.

我们可以谈论这个，就像我们谈论我哥哥的女朋友一样。

We can talk about it just like we I also have a brother, like just like we talk about my brother's girlfriends.

我们可以谈论我的女朋友，你知道的，但我觉得这需要时间，我以前也是这样。

We can talk about my girlfriends, you know, but I do think it takes and I was like that too.

在第一个骄傲月，我妈妈没来，我当时就想：‘什么？’

Like the first year of Pride, my mom didn't come and I was like, what the fuck?

你甚至都没去参加骄傲游行。

You didn't even come to Pride.

我非常难过。

I was so upset.

而今年，她参加了骄傲游行，亲吻了我所有的朋友。

And then this year she was at Pride kissing all my friends.

进步。

Progress.

没错。

Exactly

在他们自己的节奏下。

in their own time.

你发的第一个关于‘我是同性恋’的TikTok视频是什么？发布之前你感觉怎么样？

What was your first, like, I'm gay TikTok and how were you feeling prior to posting it?

我不记得具体是哪一个了。

So I don't remember the exact one.

我觉得我只是加入了线上酷儿社群的热门趋势。

I think I just hopped into the trends that were kind of within the queer community online.

但我真的觉得，我完全是被积极的评论和关注推动的，说实话，我从未有过那种感觉——我从未感到尴尬，尽管有些视频我本该感到尴尬，但我没时间去想这些。

But I really think I was just so driven by the positive comments and the attention quite frankly, like, I never really felt anything like I never felt embarrassment, which some of those videos I probably should have, but I didn't have the time.

我只是觉得，这太棒了。

And I was just sort of like, this is awesome.

我得到了这么多认同。

Like, I'm getting all this validation.

这简直是一件令人兴奋的小事。

And it was just this like little exciting thing.

因为那时我还在新罕布什尔州。

Like, because I was I was still in New Hampshire.

我当时在上大学，过着一种近乎秘密的生活——在网上发布这些视频，我觉得这真的很令人兴奋。

I was just I was in college and I had this like, it was almost like a little secret life where I was like posting these videos online and I just think I was it was just exciting.

是的。

Yeah.

然后学校里的人开始慢慢发现，我就只是说：对，我是同性恋，那又怎样？

And then people at school started to kind of find out slowly and I was just sort of like, yeah, I'm gay, what about it?

我觉得，当你有一个鼓励你的平台时，公开出柜要容易得多，而不是独自面对这一切。

Like I was just sort of like it, I think is a lot easier to be openly gay when you like have this platform that's encouraging you versus if you're just like alone with it.

我觉得一开始压力大得多。

I feel like it's a lot heavier at first.

嗯。

Yeah.

你觉得你们这一代人，是不是更倾向于觉得，我不需要出柜。

Do you feel like your generation, it is more just kind of like, I don't need to come out.

我就是这样的。

This is just who I am.

就是这样。

It is what it is.

完全没错。

Absolutely.

我觉得这根本就不是什么大事。

Like, I think it's so just like, no big deal.

我的意思是，并不是所有地方都这样。

I mean, not everywhere,

我肯定。

I'm sure.

但我认为总体上，至少正朝着这个方向发展。

But I think overall, it's headed that way at the very least.

比如我知道，在我那个小镇上，孩子们多多少少都是同性恋。

Like I know even in my small town, like the kids just they're all gay in some way.

我太喜欢了。

I love that.

我喜欢

I love

特别喜欢。

it so much.

而且我确实看到有些人不太喜欢这种趋势，觉得这不过是种潮流之类的，但谁在乎呢？

Like, and I I've seen like rumblings of people like not really liking that it's sort of cooler trend or whatever it is but like who cares?

如果现在这些孩子说自己是泛性恋之类的，然后以后又决定不是了，那又怎样呢？

If these kids right now if if they're like, yeah, I'm like pansexual or whatever they're coming out as and then decide later on like they're not, who cares?

让他们自己去发现，去探索吧。

Let them figure it out like let them explore.

我觉得他们能自由探索真是太棒了。

I think it's awesome that they feel like they can explore.

我们很多人当年却做不到。

So many of us couldn't.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以我觉得这太棒了。

So I think it's awesome.

我觉得这正朝着一个非常酷的方向发展。

And I think it's headed in like a really cool direction.

我爱死这个了。

I love that.

嗯。

Yeah.

你不仅在网上公开出柜，还深度融入了酷儿 TikTok 空间。

Not only did you come out online and like really indulge in the queer TikTok space.

而且你还处于一段非常公开的网络恋情中。

But you were also in a very public online relationship.

是的，我是。

I was.

你觉得这段关系有什么特别之处，能吸引这么多人的关注？

What do you think was so special about that relationship that captured so many people's attention?

这是一段非常真诚的关系。

It was a very genuine relationship.

我一直都说，我们在网上展示的是真实的生活。

I've always said this, like what we showed online was realistic.

我们真的深爱着彼此。

Like we were really so in love.

那是一段非常、非常甜蜜的关系。

Like it was like a very, very sweet relationship.

我们的观众能够看着这段关系逐渐发展，因为我们一开始只是朋友。

Like our audience got to sort of watch it unfold because we started out as friends.

我们当了一段时间的朋友，他们看到我们是朋友，然后慢慢看着我们开始更多地单独相处，而那时我们几乎把一切都发出来了。

So we were friends for a while and they saw us as friends and then they sort of slowly watched us like start to hang out alone more and we because we were posting everything back then like everything.

我是在一条TikTok视频里向她求婚的。

And then the way I asked her to be my girlfriend was in a TikTok.

天啊。

Oh my gosh.

他们看到了这一幕，然后一直看着我们成长，接着我们搬去一起住，我觉得这看起来就像一段非常甜蜜的女同性恋童话关系。

So they saw that and then like, they just watched us grow and then we moved in together and I think we just sort of like, it really, it looked like some sort of like lesbian fairytale relationship.

我觉得这对人们来说是一种积极的影响。

I think it was a good influence for people to have.

它让人们看到，哦，原来我也可以拥有这样的关系。

Like it was something to kind of people could see like, oh, like I can have that too.

这正是我年轻时想要拥有的。

Like it's what I wanted to have when I was younger.

值得仰慕的。

To look up to.

你觉得如此公开会给这段关系带来压力吗？

Do you think being so public added pressure to the relationship?

不会。

No.

不一定。

Not necessarily.

我的意思是，某种程度上，是的。

I mean, in a sense, yes.

比如，这会给关系增添一种非常不人性的成分，因为会有太多人的意见涌入。

Like, just because I think it just adds sort of like a very inhuman component of the relationship where like, you have so many people's opinions feeding in.

我们经常看到一些评论，说什么如果这个和艾弗里的那个，但其实离真相太远了。

It's like, we just see comments that were like, oh, like, so if this and Avery's that and then it's just like so far from the truth.

这给一段关系增添了一种奇怪的、不正常的额外负担。

It's just a weird added thing to a relationship that like isn't normal.

但我真的不觉得这带来了太多压力。

But I really don't think like it didn't add too much pressure.

这很有趣。

Like it was fun.

我觉得我们都玩得很开心。

I think we both had fun

是的。

Yeah.

发帖分享。

Posting them.

我认为，无论是否涉及感情关系，生活中如此公开地暴露自己都很难。

I think exposure like that at any level, even if it's not a relationship, just exposure on your life and yourself is hard.

当那些不了解你的人给你反馈时，你很难应对，还希望你回拨电话。

And it's hard to get feedback like that when people don't know you and then you want to call me back.

而且我觉得，这种影响是永久的。

And I think also like the repercussions are forever.

就像我们永远被联系在一起，而我们对此并不在意。

Like we're forever associated and like, it's okay with us.

我们是好朋友，但永远无法摆脱它。

We're good friends, but like we will never get rid of it.

而且，这也没关系。

And like, it's okay.

但如果你想想，如果你在二十岁出头时约会过的人，会永远贴在你的声誉上，这确实有点疯狂。

But it is kind of crazy if you think about like, if someone you dated in your early twenties is forever, like, glued to your reputation.

这只是一个有趣的现象，我并不是在说这是好事还是坏事。

Like, it's just an interesting, like, I'm not even saying it as a good or bad thing.

这只是一个中性的事实——我们永远都会被联系在一起。

It's just like a neutral, like that is a fact we are forever like

绑定在一起。

linked.

而且对将来你约会的其他人来说，这也是一个事实，这可能挺难的。

And also like a fact for people that you date moving forward too, which is probably tough.

是的。

Yes.

而且网上的评论者在比较时非常苛刻，他们真的会这样，我能理解，因为对很多人来说，我们就像是电视剧里的人物。

And the comment like people online are ruthless with like comparing and like, just really like they are so and I do understand because it's like to a lot of people, we are like a character in a TV show to them.

比如，在第一季里有一对情侣，你会非常投入，希望他们贯穿所有季都能复合。

And, you know, if there's like a couple in season one, you get really attached to them, you're forever hoping they get back together, like throughout all the seasons.

所以，我能理解很多人是怎么看待这件事的。

And so like, I understand that that's how a lot of people view it.

他们如此沉迷于那对出色的女同情侣，然后她们分手了，于是他们感觉自己也经历了一次分手，因为他们太投入我们了，他们永远都希望我们能复合。

Like, they were so hooked on like that one really awesome lesbian couple and then they broke up and then they felt like they went through the breakup too because they were so hooked on us and it's like they're forever, like, get back together back.

懂的都懂。

Like, get it.

所以

So

但这是在《一棵树山》里。

But this is at 1 Tree Hill.

这是真实的生活。

This is real fucking life.

别管他们了。

Leave them alone.

同性恋男性、女同性恋者和直觉相关的女性，这是你们的行动号召。

Gay guys, lesbians, and straight adjacent women, this is your call to action.

你是无底洞吗？

Are you a bottomless pit?

你是受方吗？

Are you a bottom?

你的脚很宽吗？

Do you have wide feet?

如果你曾遭受身体畸形恐惧症的话。

If you are somebody who has suffered body dysmorphia.

慢性疼痛。

Chronic pains.

《好孩子》这个播客适合你。

Good Children is the podcast for you.

如果你还没时间消化你的童年创伤，让我们来替你处理。

If you haven't had time to process your childhood drama, let us do it for you.

我们从四岁起就是朋友了。

We have been friends since we were four years old.

我们在这里尽力提供一份成年指南。

We are here to provide a field guide to adulthood as best as we can.

有很多事情需要梳理。

There is a lot to work through.

因为好孩子往往会变成有问题的成年人。

Because good children make bad adults.

在Apple Podcasts、Spotify或你正在收听的任何平台免费订阅《好孩子》。

Subscribe to Good Children for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now.

Poppity以你从未听过的角度为你呈现流行文化。

Poppity brings you pop culture like you've never heard it before.

因为说实话，你想要的不只是八卦，你还希望配上一盘薯条。

Because let's be real, you don't just want the tea, you want it served with fries on the side.

我是来自《Spill Sesh》的克里斯蒂·库克。

I'm Christy Cook from Spill Sesh.

我是斯隆·胡克斯。

And I'm Sloan Hooks.

我们俩将深入探讨那些戏剧性、怀旧感以及大家都在热议的头条新闻。

Together, we're diving deep into the drama, the nostalgia, and the headlines everyone's talking about.

每周，我们都会剖析名人八卦、病毒式趋势和好莱坞最受关注的时刻。

Each week, we're breaking down celebrity drama, viral trends, and Hollywood's most talked about moments.

此外，在我们的《Gossip on Go》环节中，我们会与你喜爱的网红和真人秀明星共进他们最爱的餐食，因为最精彩的故事，总是伴随着额外的酱料。

Plus, in our Gossip on Go segment, we will sit down with your favorite influencers and reality stars over their go to meals because the best stories, they always come with extra sauce.

我们为你带来你真正关心的争论、戏剧和怀旧情绪。

We're bringing you the debates, the drama, and the nostalgia you really care about.

这不仅仅是一档播客。

It's more than a podcast.

这是一个流行文化社区。

It's a pop culture community.

这是Poppity。

This is Poppity.

我觉得自己在生活的许多方面都在真正地按下重置键，但随之而来的是一个全新的约会时代，我觉得这会非常有趣，尤其是我现在已经三十多岁了。

I feel like I'm really hitting a reset button in my life in a lot of different ways, but with that comes this new era of dating, which I think will be really interesting, especially now that I'm in my thirties.

我感觉自己变得更加自信和成熟，准备好以一种完全不同的方式来对待约会。

I just feel so much more confident and mature and, like, ready to approach dating in a very different way.

我过去总是对约会软件持回避态度，但现在我准备尝试，用全新的视角来看待它们，尤其是因为有些软件真的很好。

And I feel like I always used to be really standoffish towards apps, but I'm kind of ready to dive in and look at them through a new lens, especially because some of the apps are really great.

The Her 应用程序会举办一些社区活动，比如如果你在不同的城市，或者只是想慢慢重新接触约会，而不是一头扎进去，还可以带朋友参加活动，上面有各种社区活动的列表供你选择。

The Her app has these community events where, like, if you're in a different city or if you're just like kind of wanting to dip your toes back in and not dive in headfirst and maybe bring a friend to an event, there's these lists of community events that you can attend.

而且，它并不一定感觉像一个约会应用。

And also, doesn't necessarily feel like a dating app.

它还带有一些社交媒体的氛围。

There's also like a social media feel to it.

所以你可以在真正约会之前，大致感受到对方的气质和个性，识别出红色警报和绿色信号。

So you can kind of get people's vibes and personality, red flags, green flags before actually going on a date.

人们总是问我，你是怎么认识你的酷儿朋友的？

People are always asking me, like, how do you meet your queer friends?

你是怎么认识新朋友的？

How do you meet new people?

老实说，我觉得现在 apps 就是最佳途径，尤其是外面天气这么冷的时候。

And honestly, I think the apps are just where it's at nowadays, especially when it's, like, cold outside.

还没人真的在外面活动呢。

Nobody's really outplaying yet.

所以我觉得，这是一种很好的方式，可以了解周围发生了什么，谁在外面，以及你能认识谁。

So I feel like this is a good way to figure out what's going on around you and who's outside and who you could meet.

不管怎样，我现在正处于一个充满可能性的过渡阶段，我觉得把 apps 加入其中会非常有趣。

Anyways, I'm just in this liminal space where anything could happen, and I think adding the apps into that could be really fun.

也许你也可以加入 Her 这个应用，然后我们在上面碰面。

Maybe you join the Her app too, and we see each other on there.

让我感觉不那么孤单。

Make me feel less alone.

好的。

Okay.

祝你好运。

Good luck out there.

那是你第一次

Was that your first

心碎吗？

heartbreak?

是的。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

我觉得是。

I would say so.

是的，那很难受，我之前也经历过分手。

Yeah, it was hard and I had like, I had gone through breakups.

我曾经很难过，但这次真的心碎了。

I had been sad, but I was so heartbroken.

是的。

Yeah.

但我觉得这并没有帮助，因为就在两个月前，我刚被诊断出患有1型糖尿病。

But I think it didn't help that, like two months before I had just been diagnosed with type one diabetes.

所以那时我正处于一个非常脆弱的低谷期。

So I was at like a really vulnerable low spot.

是的。

Yeah.

是的，我真的很受打击，因为现在回头看，我明白为什么这段关系走不下去了。

Yeah, and it really, I took it really hard because I was like, I mean, it's easy to look back on it now and be like, I understand why it didn't work out.

我觉得我们分手其实是好事。

Like, I think it's good that we broke up.

我觉得我们并没有按照应有的方式一起成长。

Like, I don't think we were growing the way we were supposed to.

但当时我太固执了。

But at the time, I was so set.

我觉得她就是我的那个人。

Like, I was like, this is my person.

我当时深爱着她，对关系中的任何问题都视而不见，完全被她迷住了。

And like, I was just so deeply in love, so blind to any like adversities in our relationship, like just so set on her.

所以那真的很难受。

So it was like, it was a lot.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且我们的分手还是公开的。

And then it was public, a public breakup too.

对。

Right.

所以那就是

So that's

我当时打算在那时

what I was gonna at that

那个时刻，公开这件事有影响吗？

point in time, did the public aspect ad?

有。

Yes.

你当时是不是希望可以躲起来？

Were you like hoping that you could just hide away?

哦，那简直疯了。

Oh, it was insane.

我的意思是，我看着这段分手在公众面前展开，因为处理方式太公开了。

Well, I mean, I was watching the breakup unfold with the public because the way it was handled was so public.

所以我和所有人一样，都是在那时才得知这些事情的。

And so I was finding things out while everyone else was.

这很难受，因为我觉得自己的生活完全失控了。

And that was hard because it was like, I just felt so out of control in my life.

不只是分手这件事。

Like, wasn't even just the breakup.

但分手确实是其中很大一部分原因。

But that was like a huge part of it.

但当时我刚被确诊，而且还要第一次独自生活。

But like, with having just been diagnosed, and then I was like, also going to be living alone for the first time ever.

然后，显然，分手让我觉得彻底失控，仿佛失去了一切。

And then, like, obviously, the breakup, like it was just like I was just so out of control and felt like I had just like lost everything.

我会去我的免费页面，上面全是关于我和我关系的视频，关于我和我关系的视频。

And I would go on my free page and it was just like video about me and my relationship, video about me and my relationship.

所以我根本无处可逃。

And so like I couldn't escape.

然后情况变得如此荒谬，连多年没联系过的朋友都会给我发消息，说：天啊，到底发生什么事了？

And then it was such like a what is going on type of situation that it was like people in my real life that I haven't talked to in years would text me be like, oh my god, like what's going on?

就是根本逃不掉。

And it was just like couldn't escape it.

对啊。

Like Yeah.

每个人都知道发生了什么，线上线下的都知道。

Everyone to know what was going on, like, the Internet in real life.

这简直是个巨大的事情。

Like, was just this huge thing.

这又是另一件一直缠着我的事。

Like, even that's another thing that's like stuck to me.

那种情况永远深深刻在人们的记忆里。

Like, that situation is forever, like, ingrained in people's brains.

嗯。

Yeah.

就像一场闹剧。

It was like a scene.

对别人来说，这就像一部电影，但这是我的真实生活，我的真实分手。

Like it was a movie to people and it was my real life and my real breakup.

我觉得人们其实没意识到的是，没错，我确实很难过，但我是真的很难过。

And like, I think that's what people weren't really realizing is like, yeah, I was sad but like, I was actually sad.

我在线上发布一些治愈系视频，但在现实生活中，我简直痛苦至极。

Like I was posting like healing videos online and then in real life, I'm like, absolutely miserable.

我只是在发帖，试图撑下去，试图鼓励别人，同时也鼓励自己。

Like, I was just posting like, trying to stay afloat, trying to like encourage other people while trying to encourage myself.

但事实上，我已经被击垮了。

But like in reality, like I was devastated.

然后我收到了大量的鼓励和积极的留言，都说我表现得非常好。

And then I was getting so much, like encouragement and positive words about how well I was doing.

我感到一种压力，必须表现得真的很好，而实际上我并没有。

I felt this pressure to be like, actually doing well when I wasn't.

没错。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

你是怎么重建的？

How did you rebuild?

时间。

Time.

绝对是时间。

Definitely time.

但我从南佛罗里达搬到了坦帕，第一次独自租了公寓。

But I moved from South Florida up to Tampa and had my first apartment on my own.

那时我被迫要自己想办法解决。

And I was just I was forced at that point in time to figure it out.

其实就是，我别无选择。

Like, that's really what it was is I had no other choice.

要么任由一切击垮我，要么就想办法走出来。

Like it was either like, let it all take me down or figure it out.

所以我这么做了，我在那里找到了一群朋友，慢慢重建了我的生活。

So I did and I found a group of friends there and, just slowly recreated my life.

当我这么做的时候，感觉真的很棒。

And then as I was doing it, it was kinda awesome.

我得以重新塑造自己，真正从零开始，因为我必须彻底改变一切——面对慢性病、单身、独自生活、在一个新城市、结识新朋友，所有的一切都是全新的。

Like I got to reinvent myself, like really from the ground up because it was like, I had to really change everything I knew with a chronic illness and then being single and then living on my own and like in a new city and finding new friends, like it was all new.

是的。

Yeah.

但最终这变得非常棒，我学到了关于自己非常多的东西。

But it ended up being really awesome and like just learning so so much about myself.

这让我感到非常有力量，因为我以前是个极度依赖朋友、家人和关系的人，但后来被迫不再依赖。

And it it was just like empowering because I really was kind of just like a codependent person on friends, on family and relationships, and then was forced to not be.

这真的太棒了。

And it was just like, it was awesome.

是的。

Yeah.

你认为从那段人生经历中，你学到的最重要的教训是什么？

What do you think the biggest lesson is that you took away from that kind of time in your life?

我觉得这听起来可能很老套，但我真的比自己想象的要能干得多。

I feel like this sounds so cliche, but like, I really am capable of so much more than I thought.

比如一些小事，我会提着四袋很重的杂货，心想：我一个人根本做不到。

Like, it would just be little things to like, I'd have four bags of heavy groceries and I'd like, I can't do this myself.

但后来我还是做到了。

And then I do it.

我当时就想，哦，

And I was like, oh,

我只是赢了。

I just win.

其实是我真的必须这么做。

Like actually I have to.

如果我不提，谁来提呢？就是这类小事，让我一次次惊叹：哇。

Who's gonna carry them if I'm not like, it was just like a bunch of little things like that where I was like, wow.

我当时就是对自己完全没有信心，也不清楚自己到底能做什么。

Like, I just was like, just so not confident with myself and like what I was capable of.

当然，后来也涉及到更深层的事情。

And then obviously it was things deeper than that too.

比如我晚上很难熬的时候，虽然我有朋友可以求助，但我没有可以依靠的感情关系。

Like, I'd be having a hard night and I had no like I had friends to turn to obviously, but like I didn't have a relationship to lean on.

有时候连个能安慰我的人都没有，只能独自面对这些情绪和想法，还要管理自己的糖尿病，真的完全是孤身一人。

Didn't have like a comfort person per se sometimes so I would just be like, I'm alone with these feelings and this thought and like managing my diabetes too like I'm alone with it.

但说来奇怪，这在某种程度上又让人感到有力量。

And like but it's empowering in a sense.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得这些事情都是累积的，搬完 groceries 之后，你就更有信心去做下一件小事，再做一件，不知不觉你就发现，我他妈根本不需要任何人。

I feel like a lot of those things stack like the groceries and then you're confident to do one more little thing and then one more little thing and then before you know it, you're like, I don't fucking need anybody.

没错，完全如此。

No, absolutely.

然后你就到了我现在这种状态，极度独立，甚至拒绝寻求帮助，不过我们正在努力找到一个良好的平衡点。

And then you get to where I'm at now where I'm hyper independent and I like refuse to ask for help, but like we're working on getting a good middle ground.

是啊，就像钟摆一样来回摆动。

Yeah, the pendulum swings.

对，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

正是如此。

Exactly.

你能给我简单介绍一下，你现在的性取向和健康状况，以及这段分手后的经历吗？

Can you give me just like an overview of where you're at today with your sexuality, your health with this breakup.

我知道你们现在又做回朋友了。

I know you guys are friends again.

所以这段旅程是怎样的？你现在处于什么状态？

So what's the journey been like and where are you at today?

是的，我觉得我现在正处在一个很特别的人生阶段。

Yeah, so I'm at an interesting point in life, I would say.

我刚满25岁。

I just turned 25.

太棒了。

Love it.

我觉得自己做了很多反思。

So I feel like I've done a lot of reflecting.

这不算 quarter life 吗？

It's not like quarter life?

是的。

Yes.

四分之一人生危机。

Quarter life crisis.

也许吧。

Perhaps.

是啊。

Yeah.

就是很多方面，有好有坏，我在看我现在所处的位置，和我25岁时以为自己会达到的位置之间的差距。

Just a lot of like, in good and bad ways, like looking at like, where I am versus where I thought I would be at 25.

有很多我从未想过可能实现的很棒的事情。

And there's a lot of really awesome things I never thought could be possible.

但也有不少事情，比如我没有一段长期的恋爱关系。

But then there's also like a lot of things where I'm like, not in a long term relationship.

就是，我只是觉得，和我刚出柜时的感觉相比，现在真的不一样了，和我当初想象的也不同。

Like, I just like just a lot of just, it's different than what I kind of going back to like how I felt when I was first coming out to like, it's just different than what I thought.

所以，我只是在慢慢接受这一切。

So just like coming to terms with that.

但我觉得我现在也到了一个阶段，我其实一直假装自己过得很好，已经很久了。

But I think I am also at a point where, I think I've been pretending I was like really okay for a long time.

我觉得这种伪装开始对我产生影响了，我意识到我真的再也撑不下去了。

And I think that's starting to catch up to me where I'm like, I actually can't anymore.

我需要停止假装自己一切安好。

Like I need to stop acting like I'm okay.

就像，我这样其实没关系，这几年我经历了很多。

Like, it's okay that I'm like, really, like, I've been through a lot in the last few years.

我觉得我只是努力告诉自己，不，这根本没影响我。

Like, I think I just really tried to be like, nope, it didn't bother me.

看看我。

Look at me.

我过得很好。

I'm doing so good.

我会成为你们所有人的榜样。

Like, I'll be all of your inspirations.

我会脱颖而出。

Like, I'll come out on top.

而现在，我只是想把这根接力棒交给别人，真正去感受那些三年来我一直回避的情绪。

And like, I think now I'm just like, I'm gonna give that baton to someone else and I'm gonna actually like feel these feelings I've been kind of pushing away for three years.

所以这就是我现在的情况——正在处理那些我曾压抑的一切，学习成为25岁的自己，我觉得现在的我跟预期不一样，但并不是坏事，只是不同而已。

So that's kind of where I'm at now just like working through everything I pushed away and just learning who I am as an adult, like as 25 year old me, like, I think she's just different than what I expected and not in a bad way, but just different.

所以我觉得，很大程度上，接受真实的自己和自己的现实，就是我现在所处的状态。

So I think just like a lot of just coming to terms with like who I am and what my reality is, is kind of just where

我正在经历和处理的一切。

I've been at and what I'm working through.

嗯。

Yeah.

我觉得人们从你的话中也能获得很多动力。

I think there's a lot of motivation that people could gain from that too.

只是听到你说，我并不是一直都很棒。

Just like hearing you say like, I'm not okay all the time.

不一直很好也没关系。

And it's okay to not be okay all the time.

我也没比你大多少，但确实比你大一点。

And I'm not that much older than you, but I'm a little bit older than you.

我想说，这种感觉并不会消失。

And I will say I think that feeling doesn't go away.

我觉得你总是觉得，这并不是我原本期待的样子。

I think you're always like, this isn't what I expected it to be.

但我希望它能变得更好。

But I think the hope is that it's better.

而且在某些方面，比你预期的还要好。

And like then in some ways than what you expected.

没错。

Absolutely.

我不知道，但我觉得这其中有一种美，你知道吗？

And I don't know, I think there's something beautiful to that, you know?

说到底，我们都是人，理应有这种感受。

It's like, we're human at the end the day, like it we should feel this way.

如果我总是处于巅峰状态，我反而会担心，那并不好。

I would be worried if I was like, so like up on top at all times, like that that's not good.

是的，我觉得我过着一种本应如此的人类生活，我认为这是好事。

Yeah, I think I'm living a very human life as I should and I see it as a good thing.

是的，我超爱。

Yeah, I love it.

是的。

Yeah.

对于你还在出柜前的自己，你有什么建议？

What advice do you have for your younger self when you were still closeted?

如何暗恋同事，或者如何应对这些感情？

How to crush on your coworker or struggling with those feelings?

是的，我觉得就只是，放开心扉吧，姑娘。

Yeah, I think just, like just let it out, girl.

就释放出来吧。

Like let it out.

你简直太否认了。

You're in like so much denial.

我不知道。

Like, I don't know.

我觉得，如果你有那种直觉，觉得可能就是这样，那这种感觉适用于所有事情。

I think just you if you have that gut feeling like it's probably the case for yourself, think that applies to everything.

但比如，我经常被问到：你怎么知道自己是同性恋的？

But like, especially like, I always because I get a lot of questions like, how did you know you were gay?

我总是觉得，我可能吧，然后我总会说：你就是。

Like, I think I might be and I'm always like, you are.

如果你觉得自己是，那你就是。

If you think you are, you are.

顺着这条线索走下去。

Follow the thread.

而且，这样没关系。

And like, it's okay.

也许你不是女同性恋，也许你认同其他身份，不管是什么，就去追随光明吧，让一切自然带你前行，看看你会走向哪里。因为，我无法想象，如果我从未接受过自己，却选择过一种异性恋的生活，或者试图过异性恋的生活，那会比接受自己是同性恋的痛苦、或面对因同性恋而遭受的歧视的痛苦，要痛苦得多。我觉得，不忠于真实的自己，会更加痛苦。

And like, maybe you're not a lesbian, maybe you identify with something else, whatever it is, like, just go into the light, like, let it take you and see where you end up because like, I can't fathom if I had never accepted it and just decided to live a straight life or trying to live a straight like, that would be so much more painful than the pain of like coming to terms with being gay or dealing with any sort of like hate for being gay whatever it is like, I think not being authentic to myself would be so much more painful.

我觉得，大多数人应该都会有这种感受。

And I think I think most people would feel that way too.

就顺其自然吧。

Just lean into it.

嗯。

Yeah.

谢谢。

Thank you.

嗯。

Yeah.

你在治疗中正在处理什么？

What are you working on in therapy?

天啊。

Oh, my God.

这其实和我们刚才聊的内容有关。

It actually relates to what we were talking about.

就是接受我作为成年人后变成的这个人。

Just like accepting the person I've become as an adult.

我以前是个特别爱讨好别人的人。

I used to be a lot more of a people pleaser.

而且在表达观点方面，也更加内敛。

And a lot more reserved in a way of like, my opinions maybe.

我总是试图迎合身边的人，扮演他们希望我成为的样子。

And also like, always just trying to whoever I'm surrounded by just do acting and being whoever I thought would, whoever they wanted me to be essentially.

而我现在变成了一个固执、坚定的人，清楚地知道这就是我，这就是我的想法。

And I've grown into this like, kind of hardheaded person and just very set on this is who I am, this is how I think.

而且，和过去相比，我变得完全不同了，和我曾经认同的自己也截然不同。

And again, with the trend of like, it's just different than who I used to be different than who I always identified as.

但这就是真实的我。

But it is who I am.

我之所以成为这样，是因为不得不应对慢性疾病、分手，以及各种人生经历。

And it's it I got here through having to now manage a chronic illness and dealing with breakups and just life experiences.

而这就是我最终成为的样子。

And like, this is who I became.

这和我一直以来对自己的认知完全不同。

And it's just so different than who I always thought of myself as.

所以我觉得这正是我一直在挣扎的地方——接受我这样并不坏，只是不一样而已。

So I think that's like what I've been really struggling with, like accepting like, it's not a bad thing that I am this way, it's just different.

我们一直在努力的是，不是每个人都会喜欢你，这没关系。

And that's what we've been working on just being like, it is okay for not everyone to like you.

真的，真的没关系。

Like it's really, really okay.

那一刻具体是什么样子的？

What does that look like in the moment?

比如，你会停下来，表达自己的观点吗？

Like, do you stop pause and like voice the opinion or?

不，我觉得更多时候，当我和一群人在一起时，无论是谁，我都不是真实的自己。

No, I think it's more so just like, I really, when I would be with a group of people, whoever it was, like, I I was not authentic to myself.

我会根据我认为他们想看到的样子来改变自己，只是为了维持和平。

Like, I would morph into whatever I thought they all wanted to see just to keep peace.

我认为我一直在努力不再总是那么在意维持和平，比如，也许我的幽默感并不是每个人都喜欢，也许并不是每个人都会喜欢我，但这没关系。

And I think that's I've worked on not having to always keep the peace so much and like, okay, maybe like my sense of humor doesn't get well received by everyone or maybe like not everyone's going to like me and that is okay.

我觉得在当下，更重要的是保持真实的自己，不要总是想：天啊，等等，让我确保自己迎合他们的幽默感。

Like, I think in the moment it's more so just like staying authentic to myself and true to myself and not being so like, oh my God, okay, wait, let me make sure I'm like catering to their sense of humor.

我要确保自己更多地做回本真，而不是刻意改变。

Me make sure I'm like acting like just staying within myself more.

这很难，因为有时候人们会离开。

Which is so hard because sometimes people will fall off

这确实很难接受。

and that's like hard to take.

但我认为，你会吸引到真正爱你本来面目的人。

But I think you attract the right people who do love actually who you are.

我同意。

I agree.

这很棒。

That's great.

谢谢。

Thank you.

好的。

All right.

我们以一个游戏结束。

We end on a game.

好的。

Okay.

这个游戏叫‘U Haul’或‘U Ghost’。

It's called U Haul or U Ghost.

她很完美，只是可能有一个小怪癖。

She's perfect except for maybe this one little quirk.

她每吃一种食物都会换不同的叉子。

She uses a different fork for each food on her plate.

天哪，你真是个搬运工。

Oh my god, you haul.

真的吗？

Really?

是的。

Yes.

这是你吗？

Is this you?

不是。

No.

但我会想，好吧，她知道自己想要什么，很明确，我会说，太棒了。

But I'd be like, okay, like, she knows what she wants, she's specific, like, I'd be like, rock on.

好吧。

Okay.

有点可疑，但还是支持。

A little a little sus, but rock on.

我的意思是，是啊，我会说，做你自己吧，姑娘。

Like, I mean, yeah, I'd be like, do your thing, girl.

你只能再买一些额外的叉子了。

You just are gonna have to buy some extra forks.

嗯。

Yeah.

因为我感觉我们从来都没有足够的叉子。

Because I feel like we never have enough forks.

它们总是莫名其妙地消失。

They always go missing.

嗯。

Yeah.

你知道的，只要她自己出钱满足她对叉子的痴迷，那就没问题。

You know, as long as she's funding her fork obsession, then that's fine.

嗯。

Yeah.

这是一个合理的界限。

And that is a fair boundary.

嗯。

Yeah.

给你。

There you go.

这堆盘子也太多了吧。

That is a lot of fucking dishes.

我不喜欢洗碗。

And I do not like to do dishes.

如果那就是她的红线，那我接受。

If that if that is her red flag, I will take it.

我的意思是，如果她很棒，只是喜欢把盘子堆着，那我来洗。

Like, if she's amazing, but she just piles up those dishes, I'll do it.

好的。

Okay.

还有一件事。

One more thing.

想象一下你在餐厅，他们说：我还需要五个叉子。

Imagine being in a restaurant and they're like, I'm gonna need five more forks.

所以这实际上，不幸的是。

So that would be an actually, unfortunately.

但如果这真的是她唯一的缺点，我会说，

But I put up with if if genuinely that was her one thing, I'd be like,

给她叉子吧。

give her the forks.

给她叉子吧。

Give her the forks.

你看着她那样子，心里想：真抱歉。

You're like looking at the way you're like, I'm so sorry.

你得给小费，

You're gonna have to tip a

很多。我其实需要个叉子，把我的给她吧。

lot I need a fork actually, just give her mine.

我就像用手在铲东西一样。

I'm like shoveling with my hands.

好吧。

Okay.

你们所有人。

You all.

他们会对无生命物体讲述自己的一天。

They narrate their day to inanimate objects.

比如对着烤面包机说话，对着

Like they're talking to the toaster, they're talking to

那就是梅·赫里什。

So that's Mei Herrish.

真的吗？

Really?

我喜欢这个。

I like this.

我觉得这有点可爱。

I think it's kind of cute.

所以我会说U Haul。

So I would say U Haul.

好的。

Okay.

但要是她这么做是带着讽刺意味的话。

But like, if if she if she's like doing it like ironically.

你就是在这么做吗？

That what you're doing?

是的。

Yes.

讽刺？好的。

Iron Okay.

等等。

Wait.

嗯。

Yeah.

反讽地。

Ironically.

嗯。

Yeah.

就像，我只是在说话，但其实我不是真的觉得它们能说话，我知道它们不能说话。

Like, I'm, like, I'm just, like, talking, but, like, I'm not, like, I know they can't talk.

如果她这么认真地进行这些对话，我会担心。

If she's so serious, like, having these conversations, I'm worried.

就像她

Like, she's

听到烤面包机在回应她。

hearing the toaster talk back to her.

你是这个意思吗？

Is that what you mean?

那就是，我做不到那样。

That's See, I can't do that.

我会避开这个话题。

That I'm gonna ghost that one.

但如果她是那种讽刺的态度，像是在嘲笑那些这么做的人，那我就觉得挺有意思，我感兴趣。

But if she's like if it's like ironic, like she's like, almost like making fun of people that do it, then I'm like, I'm in, I'm into it.

好吧。

Okay.

但如果她是认真的，我就担心了。

But if it's serious, I'm worried.

很好的澄清。

Good clarification.

他们在你看电影或电视剧时大声引用台词。

They quote lines out loud while you're watching movie and TV.

消失。

Ghost.

你装失踪。

You ghost.

我觉得我同意。

I think I agree

对于这一点。

with this one.

我做不到。

I can't do it.

对我来说，我就想：闭嘴。

It for me, I'm like, shut up.

比如，认识他们，但不必说，我觉得你因为记得台词就不酷。

Like, can know them and not have to like say, like, I don't think you're cool because you know the lines.

嗯。

Yeah.

这有点像在求关注。

It's kind of giving pick me a little bit.

嗯。

Yeah.

我就要那个嗯。

Like I'm gonna get the Yeah.

真的很糟糕。

Really bad, actually.

嗯。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

我同意。

I agree.

他们用的是安卓。

They have an Android.

我在消失。

I'm ghosting.

我永远不会回复。

I'm not answering ever.

真的吗？

Really?

不，我做不到。

No, I can't do it.

这个在我看来确实像是代沟，因为我并不太在意。

This one does feel like a generational gap to me because I don't really care that much.

不。

No.

我做不到。

I can't do it.

除非他们来自欧洲，也许吧。

Unless they're, like, from Europe, maybe.

那它就火了。

Then it's then it's hot.

那就很热。

Then it's hot.

是的。

Yeah.

那在欧洲就挺酷的。

Then it's, like, cool in European.

是的。

Yeah.

不，我要拉黑了。

No, I'm ghosting.

我做不到。

I can't.

我做不到。

I can't do it.

非常感谢你来到这里。

Thank you so much for being here.

这真是太有趣了。

This has been so fun.

是啊，确实如此。

Yes, it has.

我们最后要做一个小小的干杯。

The last thing we do is just like a little cheers.

好的。

Okay.

那我们为什么干杯呢？

So what are we toasting to?

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

让我们为我的20年干杯。

Let's toast to my 20 year.

20年。

20 year.

嗯。

Yeah.

继续干杯。

Keep Cheers.

我来。

Me I will.

我会让

I'll let

你知道我下次生日帽什么时候戴。

you know when my next birthday hat went.

是的。

Yes.

我们来个像现在这样的集。

We'll do like a where they now episode.

嗯。

Yeah.

第二部分。

Part two.

感谢大家今天收听本集节目。

Thank you guys for listening to the episode today.

请记得评分、评论、订阅和留言。

Please remember to rate, review, subscribe, comment.

我们非常非常感激。

We really, really appreciate it.

关注今天的嘉宾索菲·莫斯卡，我们的节目《Made It Out》播客，以及我本人马尔·洛温克。

Follow today's guest at Soph Mosca, our show at Made It Out podcast, and me at Mal Lowenke.

本期节目由我的女友玛蒂尔德·乔丹制作和剪辑，并且 exclusively 由女同性恋者制作。

Today's show was produced and edited by Matilde Jordan, my girlfriend, and also worked on exclusively by lesbians.

曾经有过激情，现在不再有了，所以只剩下友谊了。

Pussy was once had, now no longer getting that, so friendship it is.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

好了，各位。

Alright, y'all.

都聚过来，因为来自兄弟姐妹竞争的Monet X Change有个公告要宣布。

Gather around because Monet X Change from sibling rivalry is here with an announcement.

本集播客由Google Gemini赞助。

This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Google Gemini.

听好了，Google那边的姑娘们说，Monet，告诉孩子们。

Now listen, the girls over at Google said, Monet, tell the children.

所以我现在告诉你们，美国大学生可以免费使用Google Gemini的高级版一年。

So I'm telling you, US college students get Google Gemini's pro plan free for one year.

使用世界上最好的多模态理解模型。

Use the best model in the world for multimodal understanding.

无论你是上传视频来获取关于你演示的反馈，上传作业照片寻求帮助，还是转录你错过的讲座笔记，Gemini 3 Pro都能帮上忙。

So whether you're uploading a video to get feedback on your presentation, uploading a photo of your homework to ask for help, or transcribing notes from a lecture you missed, Gemini three Pro can help.

宝贝，如果我在大学时就有这个，她简直会所向披靡。

And baby, if I had this in college, oh, she would have been unstoppable.

想象一下。

Picture it.

蒙妮特在图书馆里，上传一张我的音乐理论作业照片给吉米尼：请帮帮阿迪娃吧，或者录制我的排练视频来获取反馈，而不是在练习室哭上三个小时。

Monet exchanged in the library, uploading a picture of my music theory homework like Gemini, please help Adeeva out or recording my rehearsal videos for feedback instead of crying at the practice room for three hours.

这将会改变我的人生。

This would have been life changing.

现在回到正题。

Now back to the goods.

立即注册，获取谷歌最精准的模型——吉米尼三号Pro的更多权限：无限图片上传、专业级图片编辑、Notebook LM的更高限额、Gmail和Docs中的吉米尼功能、两太字节存储空间，还有更多福利。

Sign up to get more access to Google's most accurate model, Gemini three Pro, unlimited image uploads, pro level image editing, higher limits in Notebook LM, Gemini in Gmail and Docs, two terabytes of storage, and more.

你没听错，两太字节。

You heard me, two terabytes.

这足够存储你每一次声乐热身、《龙虾赛车》的造型，以及你阿姨发给你关于她植物的每一张照片。

That's enough space to store every vocal warm up, Drag Race look, and every photo your aunt sends you of her plants.

访问 gemini.google/students 了解更多信息并注册。

Visit gemini.google/students to learn more and sign up.

条款适用。

Terms apply.

同志男性、女同性恋者和直觉相关的女性，这是你们的行动号召。

Gay guys, lesbians, and straight adjacent women, this is your call to action.

你是无底洞吗？

Are you a bottomless pit?

你是受方吗？

Are you a bottom?

你的脚很宽吗？

Do you have wide feet?

如果你曾遭受身体畸形障碍或慢性疼痛。

If you are somebody who has suffered body dysmorphia Chronic pains.

《好孩子》这个播客适合你。

Good Children is the podcast for you.