38岁的Rich Froning为何仍以冠军姿态训练

我的孩子们已经到了这个年纪，他们会说，你曾经是地球上最健壮的人。你曾经赢得过CrossFit大赛。我就说，是啊孩子们，我曾经是里奇·弗龙宁。你懂吗？

My kids are getting to the age, and they're like, you used to be the fittest man on Earth. You used to win the CrossFit games. And I'm like, yeah, kids. I used to be Rich Froning. You know?

在一个假设的近未来，如果你被邀请执掌CrossFit，请为我分析一下这对你来说的利弊。

In a hypothetical near future where you're offered the seat at the head of the table of CrossFit, run me through the pros and cons of that for you.

你知道，我认为好处显然是可以尝试帮助这项运动重回正轨，向人们展示它曾经以及可以有多么精彩。

You know, I think the pros obviously would be to try to help bring this thing back, show people how awesome this thing was and could be.

小里奇·弗龙宁。最近怎么样，老兄？

Rich Foning junior. How are doing, man?

挺好的。你自己呢？

Pretty good. How about yourself?

一点也不差。就像我们刚才讨论的，和你一样满头大汗。是的，你的官方简介大致写着：你是10次CrossFit大赛冠军，在2011至2014年间连续四次获得个人冠军，并作为CrossFit Mayhem Freedom队的队长赢得了16个冠军头衔，你被广泛认为是有史以来最伟大的CrossFit运动员之一。但我们就实话实说吧。

Not too bad at all. Sweaty, much like yourself as we were just discussing. Yep. Your official bio reads as something like you are a 10 times CrossFit Games champion having earned four consecutive individual titles from 2011 to 2014 and 16 titles as captain of CrossFit Mayhem Freedom, and you are widely regarded as one of the greatest CrossFit athletes as of time. But let's just call it what it is.

你是，你是GOAT（史上最伟大）。你是CrossFit的GOAT。我并不…我并不太…我并不太羞于承认这一点。这些年来你的训练方式是如何演变的？

You are, you're the goat. You're the CrossFit goat. I'm not I'm not too I'm not too ashamed to say it. How has your training evolved over the years?

哦，老兄。嗯，感谢你的投票，但是，老兄，我只是喜欢锻炼。你知道，在过去几年里，我有点想明白了，我相当确定这更像是一种物质滥用（指对锻炼上瘾），而不是别的。有点痴迷。而且，你知道，显然，那些荣誉和头衔很酷，但是，老兄，它在当时为我奠定了美好的未来，也成就了我们的今天。

Oh, man. Well, I appreciate the the the vote, but, man, I just I like to work out. You know, over the last couple years, I've kinda come to terms with I'm pretty sure it's a substance abuse thing more than anything. A little bit of an obsession. And, you know, I obviously, those those accolades and things are cool, but, man, it set me up for a, you know, great future at that point and where we're at today.

老兄，我能以锻炼为生，告诉别人健身有多么棒，并且，你知道，用我多年来的错误经验去教导别人。所以我真的非常热爱锻炼，热爱健身，热爱挑战，热爱做困难的事情。所以，你知道，可能根源就像我说的，有点物质滥用（上瘾）的倾向，不过，嗯，你知道，情况可能更糟。我本可能去酗酒或做类似的事情。所以相反，我只是在摧残自己的身体，可能八到十年后，我可能得更换一些关节之类的，但这确实是一段美好的旅程。

And man, I get to work out for a living and tell other people about how awesome fitness is and, you know, teach people from my mistakes throughout the years. And so I just I really love working out and love, you know, fitness and and pushing and and doing difficult things. So, know, probably stems, like I said, to a little bit of substance abuse and yeah, you know, could be worse. I could be drinking alcohol or doing something like that. So instead, I'm just ruining my body to where you know, in probably eight to ten years, I might be, replacing some joints or something like that, but it's been a good run for sure.

你现在的训练与你当年在个人项目中绝对统治的那个时期相比，有什么不同？虽然我知道很多人，我的很多同行会认为你仍然具有绝对统治力。你只是不再参与那个游戏了。但从那时到现在，你的训练是如何演变的？它看起来有什么不同？

How does your training look different now from, in the, you know, the the sort of the the the period where you were absolutely dominant in the individual scene? Although I I know a lot of people a lot of my peers would argue that you're you're still absolutely dominant. You just don't play that game anymore. But how has your training evolved from there to now? How does it look different?

我会说强度低得多，你知道，只用到前10%的力量水平，重量更加适中，只是保持活动，尝试更有意识地关注运动模式之类的事情。当某天身体疼痛时，我不会硬撑着去克服那些疼痛，而是尽量保持明智。说实话，如果我百分百诚实的话，我现在的训练量可能和以前一样多，但紧迫感和压力小了很多。你知道，我喜欢锻炼，所以我仍然训练，只是训练量没那么大。

I would say way less, know, top 10% strengths, you know, way more moderate weight, just moving, trying to be more conscious about movement patterns and things like that. And when things hurt on days, you know, I'm not not pushing through those pains and and just trying to be smart. I mean, if we're being a 100% honest, I'm still probably working out as much as I ever have, but with way less, urgency or stress about it. You know, I I enjoy working out, so, I still train. I don't train as much.

我锻炼得更多了，如果这说得通的话。显然，考虑到我们的工作性质，我仍然需要测试训练内容，确保我们推出的产品是正确的，刺激效果到位，需要为运动员们保持体形。所以偶尔当我参与一次训练时，他们会说，哇，老兄，哇，老兄，宝刀未老啊。

I work out more, if that makes sense. So, you know, obviously, with what we do, I still need to test workouts, making sure whatever product we're putting out, is is right, is the stimulus is there, need to be in shape for the athletes. So every once in a while when, you know, I hop into a workout, they're like, oh, man. Oh, man. Still got it.

然后，显然，考虑到我们的工作，很多时候我们在销售产品，所以我需要脱掉衬衫后看起来不错。这是很重要的一部分。另外，还需要能够完成艰难的任务。所以，每年大概两三次，甚至四次，我会尝试做一些让我走出舒适区的事情，或者给我一个训练目标，只是为了保持一点紧迫感。懂吗？

And then, you know, obviously, with what we do, you know, we're selling a product a lot of the time, so I need to look good with my shirt off. So that's a huge part of it. And then also, need to be able to do hard things. So, you know, two, probably three or four times a year, I'm I'm trying to do something that gets me outside my comfort zone or gives me something to train for just so I have a little bit of a sense of urgency. You know?

在运动会后的两年里，我参加了莱德维尔一百英里山地自行车赛。今年我不参加了。我们刚在德克萨斯州的阿马里洛完成了一个24小时山地自行车赛。我还有几场本地的CrossFit比赛要参加，和一些哥们儿搭档。丹·贝利，我和丹·贝利，还有我们的另一个朋友乔丹·韦布，他是库克维尔这里的体育老师，跟我们混了很久了。

After the games for two years, I did that Leadville one hundred mountain bike race. This year, I'm not doing that. We just finished a twenty four hour mountain bike race in Amarillo, Texas. I've got a couple local CrossFit competitions, that I'm going to do, you know, with some buddies as, partners. Dan Bailey, me and Dan Bailey and then our other buddy Jordan Webb, who's a PE teacher here in Cookville and has been with us for a long time.

我们要参加密歇根的新海岸健身节，在三周后，不对，是的，三周后。所以现在是关键时刻了。然后，你知道，我就是喜欢一直有个目标在瞄准。

We're going to do the Fresh Coast Fitness Festival in, Michigan in, three week no. Yeah, three weeks. So crunch time there. And then, you know, I just like to like to be like to have something that I'm aiming at constantly.

有没有一些动作，或者我猜是动作组，甚至只是对待某些动作的方式，这些年来对你发生了变化，或者你更加意识到了？还是说仅仅是不再追求那个极限了？

Are there any movements or, I guess, groups of movements or even just the approach to certain movements that have changed for you over the years or that you're more cognizant of? Or is it just kind of that not pushing through to that top end?

是的。我认为，你知道，那个极限力量是影响我最大的，尤其是在奥运举重中。这些年来，姿势发生了变化。某些活动范围的灵活性也改变了。所以我只是更聪明、更有意识地对待它。

Yeah. I think, you know, it's that top end strength is the one that kind of affects me the most, especially in the Olympic lifts. You know, the positions have changed over the years. The mobility in certain ranges of motion have changed. And so I'm just smarter about it, more cognizant of it.

而且，你知道，不值得因为做了蠢事而疼痛四五天或者错过锻炼。现在，如果那是在比赛中出现，那么是的，我可能会超越愚蠢，干点傻事。但我尽量最小化这类事情，直到比赛前大概六到八周。比如，我不怎么做引体向上，除非比赛前六周，只是为了确保那个运动模式还在。但我们做很多严格引体向上。

And, you know, it's not worth four or five days of either being in pain or missing working out because I've done something stupid. Now, if that shows up in competition, then yeah, I'll probably push past stupid and do something dumb. But I try to like minimize those types of things till probably six or eight weeks out from a competition. Like, I don't keep pull ups much unless, you know, six weeks out from a competition just to make sure that movement pattern is there. But we do a lot of strict pull ups.

我们做很多其他拉力训练，只要那个动作回来就行。然后，奥运举重，抓举和挺举，这两个动作如果我不够聪明，或者做一堆顶级高强度的力量训练，尤其是在深蹲底部到底，特别是我的左膝盖，我会感觉疼几天。所以这是我更谨慎一点的事情。因此，我会做大量低水平或低重量、低百分比的训练，只是为了确保运动模式存在。而大部分情况下，力量，你知道，那是让人疼的一部分，老兄。

We do a lot of other pulling that as long as that movement comes back, it's fine. And then, you know, the Olympic lifts, the snatch and clean and jerk, those are the two that if I'm not smart about or if I do a bunch of top level high end, strength work and just bottoming out in the bottom of that squad, especially with my left knee, I feel it for a couple days. So that's something that I'm I would say, little bit more cautious about. And so I'll do a lot of volume at lower level or lower weights, lower percentages, just to make sure that the movement pattern is there. And for the most part, the strength is, you know, that's the one piece that hurts, man.

你知道，回看2014年，抓举超过300磅，那现在简直是科幻小说了。所以在38岁，这很难，我是一个完全不同的运动员了。你知道，我脑子里没有把自己当成那个22、23岁的运动员。但在身体和里程数上，我已经不是那个运动员了。所以，有时候你必须放下自尊，老兄，这确实很伤人。

You know, you look back at 2014, you know, snatching, oh, above 300 pounds, that's science fiction now. And so it's it's hard to at thirty eight, you know, it's a I'm a way different athlete. You know, I didn't steal in my head on that, you know, 22, 23 year old athlete. But, in my body and the miles, I'm not that athlete anymore. So, you know, there's times where you gotta let the ego go and, man, it it it does hurt.

说实话，有些日子我会想，该死，真希望自己还拥有那种状态。不过你知道，到了这个阶段，也算是在优雅地老去了。

And I'd be lying to say, some days I'm like, damn. I wish I still had that, but, you know, it's, it's aging gracefully at this point.

我真的很喜欢你刚才说的那句话。我要记住这个说法——有时候我会越过愚蠢去做些傻事。这是个很好的衡量标准：先是愚蠢，然后傻事就来了。

I really liked what what you said there. I'm gonna remember that. The, sometimes I push push past stupid and do something dumb. That's a nice barometer. I've stupid and now here comes dumb.

没错。说到这个——对我们绝大多数观众来说，他们可能并不渴望达到你的表演水平。像我一样，他们只要能获得你10%的表现力就心满意足了，而且我猜很多人光是看到你的装备和造型就满足了。你认为塑造你身材的主要训练动作和原则是什么？

Yeah. Here it comes. For the vast majority of our audience, they probably have no aspirations of performing at the level you do. And they, like me, would settle for 10% of your performance prowess and I suspect many would settle just for your rig, just for your aesthetics. What would you say are the main movements and principles that have built your body?

如果必须精简到极致，你会保留哪些训练内容，同时还能自信地保持现在的体型和运动能力——大概相当于你现在输出的那种科幻级超人类表现的50%？抱歉这么说。

If you had to pare it all right down, what would you keep in rotation and still be confident that you'd still look the way you look and move, you know, sort of 50% of the sort of superhuman performance that you're outputting now? Just science fiction performance. Sorry.

嗯，你知道，功能性训练非常重要，性价比最高。但即便最近几年，我也增加了一些弯举之类的训练，不过基础还是功能性动作。大量的引体向上、俯卧撑、深蹲。我现在有个目标——我们总是在四月或三月开始默夫训练的准备。

Well, you know, I've you know, functional movements are are huge. You get the most bang for your buck. But, I mean, even in the last couple years, I've added, you know, some more, you know, curls and those types of things, but still the basis is functional movements. You know, ton of pull ups, ton of push ups, ton of squats. You know, I try to, and I've I've got a goal right now of doing, you know, we always start kind of Murph prep in, you know, April, April or March.

我现在的目标是完成默夫式训练量，不管是以间歇形式还是其他方式，争取全年每周一次。目前我正按计划进行。这些动作都是人类运动的核心。还必须能跑步——任何了解我经历的人都知道，我不太喜欢跑步，所以强迫自己每周跑两到三次。

And I've got a goal right now of trying to hit a Murph style workout, you know, so the volume of Murph, whether it's in intervals or whatever throughout once a week throughout the year. So right now I'm on track for that. And so, you know, I just those movements are pretty core to human movement. You got to be able to run which ever anybody who knows kind of my history or or who I am. I don't love running, so I have to make myself do that two to three times a week.

引体向上我通常做标准引体向上，还有俯卧撑和深蹲，同时也会使用杠铃、沙袋等器械。显然有多种方式可以达到我们追求的外形效果。但对我来说，考虑到我的注意力缺陷多动症之类的问题，CrossFit显然是最适合的方式——那就是高强度功能性训练，我们不断突破极限。

And then the pull up, I usually do strict pull ups for Murph and then push ups and squats, but then also using, you know, using a barbell, using sandbags. You know, there's obviously different ways to to get to the aesthetics that that we're at. But, man, for me and for my, ADD or whatever goes on in my head, CrossFit is is obviously the way to do that. So that's high intensity functional movements, so we constantly bury it. Right?

如果想变强壮——如果这是目标，那肯定需要遵循某种力量训练计划。但如果只是追求整体健康，那么接触这些高强度功能性训练就很好：深蹲、地面提拉（无论是杠铃还是沙袋）、翻越障碍，保持功能性。这就是我日常训练的关键。

To get stronger, if that's the goal, you you definitely need to follow some type of strength plan. But if you're just looking to get kind of overall general fit, if you're, you know, touching those things, high intensity, those functional movements. So squatting, pulling from the ground, whether it's a barbell, a sandbag, getting up and over things, just being functional. That's that's kind of the the keys to what I do on a daily basis.

是的。关于如何谈论默夫训练我很有感触，我想我们的观点应该很一致。话说回来，作为动作三重奏——或者相当于四重奏的组合。

Yeah. I I have quite strong feelings about how we how we talk about Murph and I'd imagine our thoughts are probably quite aligned on that. But that being said, as a sort of trifecta or whatever the equivalent of four is for trifecta of movements.

四重奏。

Quad fracture.

股四头肌训练。我确实应该了解这个，但跑步、引体向上、俯卧撑、深蹲这些组合非常强大，对吧？我有段时间就把训练精简到这些项目。你无法否认它的效果。

Quad fracture. I should know this really, but running, pull ups, push ups, squats are such a powerful recipe. Right? I've had times when I've paired my training right back down to that. And you can't deny it.

我的意思是，如果你有良好的力量基础，或者从零开始可能效果会打折扣，但这确实是个不错的训练方案，不是吗？

I mean, if you've got a good background of strength and, you know, maybe if you're coming from nothing, it might not it might not tick all the same boxes, but it's it's certainly a recipe for something good, isn't it?

没错。你几乎可以简化为这四项训练。如果轮换进行这些训练，就能获得很全面的锻炼。当然，如果有力量训练基础——我们经常讨论这点——比如有举重背景，身体会产生肌肉记忆，只要持续突破极限，身体就会保持某种基准水平。

Yeah. There I mean, you can you can almost dumb it down to those four things really. And if you did some type of rotation of all those things, you could be pretty well rounded. Obviously, you know, if you do have some type of basis of strength, that's what we talk a lot about too is if, you know, if you have a a lifting background, your body kind of, you know, muscle memory, whatever you want to call it, it it has a basis and it it'll kind of fall back to some type of plane as long as you're still pushing those limits in in certain things.

那你是否同意，对于力量训练新手来说，先专注力量训练打好基础是合理的？

Yeah. Would would you agree that it it makes sense if you're kind of a freshman in your strength training career to focus on strength and build a good foundation there to build a

百分之百同意。特别是想要达到特定水平时，我们会有基准指标，尤其是针对想要参赛的人——比如具体数字目标。

100%. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, if you're trying to get to a, you know, a certain level and, know, we kinda have benchmarks, especially people trying to compete of, like, numbers. Hey.

我们需要他们先达到这些数字指标。因为多数想要参赛但力量不足的人，其实已经具备不错的运动能力。所以可能会减少他们的体能训练比重，先帮他们建立基本的力量基准。

We need you to get to these numbers before we're gonna you know? Because most of the time, people that come in with with a a strength deficit already have a pretty good motor if they're trying to compete. So, yeah, we might, you know, bring them back down on the and less emphasis on, say, motor or or just, capacity work and and get them to some type of baseline of strength.

你记得的具体数字指标大概是多少？

What do those numbers look like to you if you've got any off the top of your head?

如果是精英级别的前1%，抓举要达到275磅，挺举应该在345-355磅范围，硬拉超过500磅，深蹲超过400磅。达到这些数字至少能完成大多数训练项目。

Oh, man. I mean, if we're looking elite level, like, top 1%, you know, you've gotta be in the snatch two seventy five. You've gotta be able to clean and jerk three I would say three forty five, three fifty five range, deadlift needs to be over 500, squat needs to be over 400. Jerk, well, it would be the with the clean jerks. I mean, I think if you've got those numbers, you're you're well on your way to be able to at least do most workouts.

虽然这些数字不足以让你成为线下资格赛的冠军，但足以参与所有项目并保持竞争力。

And and, you know, you're not gonna you're not gonna on those numbers, you won't be the the number one person, you know, at UPS for our, you know, what we try to do in person qualifying event, but you'll be able to do everything and and, you know, be in the mix.

对于普通健身人群呢？那些来Mayhem只是为了追求更健康强壮生活的人。他们的指标应该是多少？除了奥运举重项目外，你们会采用其他基准动作吗？

How do you think about, general population? Like, the the people who come through mayhem who are you know, they're just trying to live a a bigger, better, stronger life. Yep. What do those numbers look like? And are there are there benchmark movements maybe outside of the Ollie lifts, the Olympic lifts that you would use?

嗯，我会说，你其实可以把奥运举重项目排除在外。我认为它们非常有益。高翻，或许我会保留。是的。你知道，对于男性来说，如果能高翻185磅，我认为这在普通人群中算是达标了。

Well, I would, you know, would say you could really throw the Olympic lifts out of the equation. I think they're hugely beneficial. The clean, maybe, I would leave in there. Yeah. You know, for a a male, if you can clean one eighty five, I think that's, you know, general population.

如果你能高翻185磅并且非常自如，也许不是单次最大重量，但能驾驭185磅。我们知道这其中涉及很多技巧之类的东西。如果你能在包含多次重复的训练中做到，185磅会很棒。抓举，它很厉害，很优美。

If you can clean and be super comfortable at one eighty five, maybe not one rep max, but handle one eighty five. We know there's so much technique and all that stuff that goes into it. If you could, in a workout that had multiple reps, 185 would be great. I think the snatches, it's awesome. It's beautiful.

做起来非常有趣。我认为有人会喜欢它，但我不认为它对普通大众非常必要。硬拉，你知道，对于女性来说，高翻100或115磅左右会很不错。硬拉，我认为，对于男性，我个人认为你需要能拉起超过365磅。单次拉起355、365磅会很棒。

It's a ton of fun to do. I think somebody could enjoy it, but I don't think it's hugely necessary for general population. I think a deadlift, you know, from and so for a lady for one one eighty five, around 100 or 115 would be great on a clean. A deadlift, I think, you know, for males over, I would say, personally, I think you need to be able to do over three sixty five. Three fifty five, three sixty five for a single would be great.

所以对于女性来说，那就是225磅。这只是把东西提起来。你知道，这能给你强壮的核心、强健的腿，一切。深蹲，前蹲或后蹲真的取决于重量，男性超过300磅。对于女性，200磅左右。

So for females, that'd be two twenty five. That's just picking things up. You know, that gives you a good strong core, good strong legs, everything. Squat, you know, front or back really depends anything over 300 pounds for men. For the ladies, 200 ish pounds.

然后，你知道，能够提起一个沙袋，男性100磅，女性75磅，并能把它放到箱子上或举过某个东西，我认为会很棒。能够悬挂在单杠、引体向上杠上，你知道，这些不一定是纯粹的力量项目，但对于普通大众，你应该能做到这类事情。

And then, you know, being able to pick up a sandbag, a 100 pound sandbag for males, a 75 pound for ladies, and getting it up onto a box or up and over something, think, would be great. Being able to hang from a bar, a pull up bar, you know, those aren't necessarily strength things, but it's, you know, for general population, you should be able to do those types of things.

是的。也是你其他力量水平的一个很好的指标，对吧？我不认为你需要非常专精才能有一个好的悬垂却其他方面都不太行。确实如此。

Yeah. Great indicator of, the rest of your strength as well. Right? I I don't think that you'd have to you'd have to specialize pretty hard to have a good dead hang and be just not very good at anything else. Exactly.

是的。嗯，我甚至会把农夫行走也列入普通大众应该能做到的事情。你知道，男性每只手75磅，女性50磅，会很不错。显然，目标是争取达到男性100磅，女性70磅。通常，对于普通女性人群，你可以按70%来估算。

Yeah. Well, and I would even throw a farmer's carry into kind of the things that people general population should be able to do. And, you know, 75 pounds for men in each hand and 50 pounds for the ladies would be great. Obviously, working towards getting to that 100 for men and 70 for ladies. Usually, you can go off 70%, for general general population for females.

但是，我的意思是，当你达到竞技比赛水平时，有些女性正在向男性80%的水平靠近。所以，你知道，她们正在追赶。所以我认为这些是主要的事情，能够翻越障碍。你知道，波比跳是一个很好的指标，表明你不会进养老院。所以，能够做波比跳并且，你知道，不会上气不接下气，超级喘。

But, I mean, when you get into the games level, I mean, some of the ladies are getting more towards the 80% on dudes. So it's, you know, there's they're catching catching up. So I think those would be the main things, being able to get up and over things. You know, a burpee is a great indicator, of you being able to not going go into a nursing home. So, being able to do burpees and and, you know, not get winded, super winded.

显然，做波比跳你会喘，但要做到在做一组10或15个时不需要中途休息。

Obviously, you're gonna get winded doing burpees, but something to where you're not having to break if you're doing a set of 10 or 15.

是的。波比跳是件很简单的事。它是那种人们很容易拿来嘲笑的东西，对吧？比如，哦，你是个波比跳（暗示只擅长这个）。

Yeah. Burpees is such an easy thing. It's such a sort of low hanging fruit for people to rag on. Right? Like, oh, you're a burpee.

无意义的锻炼。这是教练们缺乏想象力时给人们布置的任务。但我思考锻炼时，会着眼于那些我永远不想失去能力去完成的事情。而从地板上站起来——这件事在我的优先级清单上排名相当靠前。

Pointless exercise. It's what you it's what coaches give people when they've got no imagination. But I think about exercise in terms of things I don't ever wanna stop being able to do. And getting up getting up off the floor is is pretty high on my my

确实很重要。确实很重要。

It's up there. It's up there.

是的。你刚才提到的那些动作——农夫搬运、沙袋训练、沙袋装载、沙袋肩扛以及翻越障碍——它们都没有超出CrossFit的范畴，因为只要发挥想象力，CrossFit可以包含任何内容。这些我认为都是最基础的能力，但可能逐渐被遗忘了，因为太多健身知识都是从健美运动等领域渗透下来的，这些动作在商业健身房可能不够实用。

Yeah. Yeah. You you mentioned, quite a few movements there, that they don't fall outside the CrossFit of remit because, the remit of CrossFit because CrossFit can be anything if you use your imagination. But, Farmers Carries sandbag work, sandbag load, sandbag shouldering and getting up over the top of things. Are all things that I consider absolutely fundamental and they kind of maybe got lost because so much of our fitness information is trickled down from bodybuilding and things like that, they're just and maybe they're just not practical in commercial settings.

这些动作是你一直优先训练或建议他人优先训练的吗？还是你通过多年培训他人或自身身体变化逐渐形成的理念？

Are they always movements that you've prioritized or would have people prioritize? Or is this kind of a philosophy that you've come to through years of training other people or how your own body's changed?

没错。我和霍巴特备战时曾开玩笑说，有整整一年我们没做过一次波比跳——比赛从没出现过这个动作，训练也基本不练，因为我们实在太讨厌这个动作了。

Yeah. I think, you know, I we joke about it. Me and Hobart, when we were training for the games, there was one year we didn't do a single burpee. It never showed up in competition. We never really did it in training because we hated them so much.

但现在看来，我们每周至少会做两次波比跳变式。光是这周我就做了波比引体向上组合训练，还有单车冲刺和硬拉。两天后我们又做了48英寸跳箱波比跳——做完波比立刻翻越48英寸跳箱，接着还要把沙袋提过跳箱，最后进行100磅沙袋的农夫行走。随着深入实践，根据不同人的目标，这些训练变得愈发重要。来CrossFit Mayhem健身的很多人，最终都是为了能陪子孙辈活动。

And, you know, now I would look at, I'd say at least twice a week, we're doing some variation of burpee. You know, like this week alone, I did, burpee pull ups, a workout with some burpee pull ups, some bike urging, some dead lifts, and then some more bike And then two days later, we did another one with burpee box get over. So 48 inches burpee I mean, you burpee, then get up over a box 48 inches. Then we lifted a sandbag up and over that box and then carry farmers carried a 100 pound, sandbags. And so, yeah, I mean, it's it's the more you get into it and if, you know, depending on people's goals and and whatever they're doing, but a lot of people that walk into the gym here at CrossFit Mayhem, they're just trying to be functional for their kids and grandkids eventually or grandkids now.

大家都希望尽可能长久保持身体机能。正如你所说，我希望永远能自主从地面站起——哪怕某些日子会慢一些。现在我的孩子们开始接触体育运动（不一定是CrossFit），我想教会他们运动中有实用价值的技能，这些考量都融合在训练设计中。

And, you know, try to be functional as long as they can. And so I think those things like you said, I want to be able to get up and off the ground as long as I can. Know, there's some days I'm gonna get up off the ground a little slower, but, you know, and I'm at the point where, you know, my kids are starting to get into it, not into, CrossFit per se, but to sport. And so I want to teach them things that they're gonna be able to use in sport. And so, yeah, a lot of lot of that plays into it.

在这个领域越久，就越能体会学无止境的美妙。健身最让我着迷的是既能自我实验，又拥有庞大测试群体——无论是线下学员还是线上社区成员。最近几周我们重启了白板编程会议，五六个人专门为顶尖的CrossFit运动员设计训练方案，再逐步推广到普通会员和线上课程——这个过程让我重拾久违的快乐。

The more and more and longer that I'm into it, obviously, the more there is to learn and that that's kind of one of the beauties. And one of the things I like most about fitness is I can test a lot of things on myself, but I'm also got a large test group of people, whether it's people out in the gym or people on our online community and what we're doing there. So, man, it's just fun. I enjoy it. The last couple of weeks we've gotten into kind of, we got away from it for a little while with everybody getting busy, but we brought it back to we get a whiteboard.

会议室的白板前，我们构思着那些极具挑战性的训练计划。将顶级运动员的训练内容逐步渗透给健身爱好者，这种模式让我乐在其中，也让我意识到自己有多怀念这种创造性的工作。

And it's upstairs in the conference room, and five or six of us have been programming for our CrossFit Games athletes, the pinnacle of what we're doing, the top one percent. And then we'll slowly trickle some of that down into, people that walk into the gym or people that are doing some of our online programming. And so, man, it's been a ton of fun for me, and I forgot how much I missed that. And and just getting up there with a whiteboard and and coming up with some devastation.

太棒了。我特别欣赏这种知识渗透的效应。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely love that. And I absolutely love that that sort of trickle down effect.

对吧？就像极端情况定义了平均水平，但你并不一定需要认为普通大众客户所做的，与你为竞技运动员所做的事情是一样的

Right? Like, the the extreme informs the mean, but we you don't necessarily need to have the sort of the idea that your your general population clients are doing, what you're doing with your games athletes is

这正是我觉得CrossFit中有些失落的魅力所在。你知道，我们多年前所做的以及现在仍然可以做到的酷炫之处——虽然现在关注度降低了——就是当那些每周训练三天的人和每周训练五天的人乃至竞技运动员走进门时，我们通过在线编程安排一些个人赛事，显然这需要借鉴格拉斯曼的理念：程度而非种类。我们已经找到了如何为不同人群创造相应刺激的方法，尝试解决这个问题也很有趣。所以当人们看到'哇，我做的和运动员差不多'时，就会产生共鸣

Well and that's I that's one of the beauties I feel like that has been lost a little bit in CrossFit. You know, there was this, you know, what was so cool about what we did years ago and what you can still do now, but it's less focused upon is like a lot of these people that walk into the when we do a good job of that, I feel like with our online programming is we'll program some of the events that the individuals are doing, you know, and and obviously it varies to take words from Glassman and degree not kind. And so we've figured out how to, create that stimulus for the people that walk in the door three days a week versus the people that walk in the door five days a week to the games athlete. And so it's just fun to try to figure that out too. And so I think, you know, people connect with that when they see, oh, man, you know, I did similar to what the athletes did.

而且天啊，对我来说太难了，他们用了这个时间，举了这个重量。这种体验在其他运动中很难实现，对吧？你可以去打美式足球或踢足球、打棒球、垒球，但你不是在和职业选手对抗，也无法真正比较水平。所以这真的很有意思

And, man, it was so hard for me, and they got this time, and they were using this weight. And there's just such a cool aspect to that that you can't really do in other sports. Right? You know, you can go out and play American football or you can go out and play football, baseball, softball, but you're not playing against the pros and you can't really, you know, compare yourself. And so, man, it's just fun.

我认为这就是CrossFit的特殊之处——虽然现在顶层发生的完全是另一个话题，但这始终是其最独特的地方

And I think that's something, you know, CrossFit, we can that's a completely different topic right now with what's going on at the top. But I think that was what was so special and is so special about it still.

没错，百分之百同意。这周末我在芝加哥参加了High Rocks世界锦标赛——这个话题我们稍后可能会谈到——期间我一直和亲友们感慨CrossFit为创建健身运动做出的惊人贡献

Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. I was at, and we'll probably get on to this later, but I was at the the High Rocks World Champs in Chicago this this weekend. And the whole time in in conversation with people I'm close to found myself reflecting on, like, how the incredible good CrossFit did for creating the fitness sport.

回溯到2008年2月时，你甚至无法构想'健身作为运动'这个概念。就像你说的，可以用客观指标衡量表现，与全球各地的人比较对比。很难向——唉我要显得老派了，我们应该是同龄人，你多大？

You couldn't even conceptualize it going back to 02/2008, just that idea of fitness as a sport. Like you say, where you can look at your performance with an objective metric and you can compare and contrast to other people all around the world. Like, it's hard to explain to I hate I'm gonna sound old now. I think we're about the same age. Like, what are you?

38岁？

38?

你多大？嗯，我37岁

Old are you? Yeah. I'm 37.

是啊，现在说话可能显得老气，但很难向二十多岁、在运动巅峰期才接触CrossFit的年轻人解释这种感觉

Yeah. I'm gonna sound old now, but it's hard to explain to, like, people in their twenties who discovered CrossFit, when the when the sport is already at its peak.

体系已经成熟了。是的

Established. Yep.

是的。CrossFit作为一项运动与训练方法之间的区别，这种划分是什么样的，以及将其既视为方法又视为运动的好处。这个周末我进行了很多反思，就像，虽然我经常说这句话，但如果没有CrossFit，这一切都不存在。绝对不可能。

Yeah. The difference between CrossFit as a sport and a training methodology and what that sort of delineation looks like and the benefits of treating it as a methodology as well as a sport. Yeah, found myself very reflective this weekend on like, none of this is this this is a sentence I roll out all of the time, but none of this exists in the absence of CrossFit. None of No way.

是啊。是啊。绝对不行。不。我的意思是，你知道，你你你提到了Hyrox，老兄。

Yeah. Yeah. No way. No. I mean and that's you know, you you you talked about Hyrox, man.

我觉得，你知道，大家都在问，你怎么看？我觉得它太棒了。让人们动起来。让人们为某个目标训练。说真的，如果我们仔细看，它其实就是CrossFit式的跑步训练。

I think it's you know, everybody's like, what do think about it? I'm like, I think it's awesome. Gets people moving. It gets people training for something. I mean, if we're really looking at it, it's it's a CrossFit running workout.

真的。它就是这样的。它是我们在CrossFit大赛中会做的单一项目。或者，是的。是我们在健身房会做的训练，我觉得这很棒。它让人们动起来。

Really. It's what it is. It's a one single event that we would do at the CrossFit Games or Yeah. It's a workout that we would do at the gym, and I think it's awesome. It gets people moving.

它让人们训练。这正是我们试图宣扬的。对吧？

It gets people training. That's And what we're trying to preach. Right?

是啊。是啊。是啊。是啊。我我是说，我也有过完全相同的对话，就像，你你可以在任何Box（CrossFit健身房）做这个，而且它就会是那个...那是我曾经一起执教过的某个人。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I've had that exact same conversation about, like, you you could do that at any box and just and it would just be the one that that that's a my someone I, you know, coached with.

我们我们最近聊过他们近期的这个，但这就像，而且我，你知道，非常尊重，就像你说的，让更多人动起来。接触面越大越好。我们需要让更多人进入健身领域。但那是一个当你课上人太多，需要减掉很多人时会让人做的训练。我们过去常把那叫做包含自重训练的项目。

We we spoke about their recent this recently, but it's like and I you know, much respect, like you say, gets people moving in the more surface area. We've got to get people into fitness, the better. But that's a workout you get people to do when you've got too many people in the class and you need to lose a lot of We used to used to call that body weight stuff in there.

你懂吧？就像，随便哪个老混蛋都能编出那种训练。比如，嘿，跑步。你可以做100个这个。

You know? Like, any old asshole can make that workout up. Like, hey. Run. You could do a 100 of these.

跑步。做100个这个。跑步。

Run. Do a 100 of these. Run.

做

Do a

100%是的。完全正确。我们不会

100 of Yep. Exactly. We don't

有很多

have a lot

我们会稍微错开开始时间。你先从划船机开始。你先从滑雪机开始。

of We're gonna stagger the start a little bit. You're gonna start with a row. You're gonna start with a ski.

对，对。再次声明，所有这些都有前提。就像，我很喜欢这样。

Yeah. Yeah. Again, caveat all of this. Like, love it.

越多越好。我认为这...我认为这对让人们动起来非常棒。

The more the more the better. I think it's it's I think it's phenomenal for getting people moving.

是的。而且我认为任何有价值的东西，只有能经得起一点善意的...嗯...善意的调侃才真正有价值。对。交叉手指

Yeah. And I think anything worth its sort is only worth its sort if it can stand up against a bit of good a good good nature driven. Yeah. A cross finger

也许可以。如果我们不能自嘲，那我们还能取笑什么呢？对吧？

get maybe. To fun of ourselves, then what can we make fun of? Right?

是的。你认为有什么原因让你至今，哦，你可能不这么想，但你在该领域至今仍然极具竞争力，而与你同时代、同龄的其他运动员已经不再参与高水平竞争了？你考虑过这个问题吗？

Yeah. Is there a reason you think you're still, oh, you might not think this, but you're still so incredibly competitive in the field today, whereas other athletes of your kind of, era, age in us here, are no longer competing at a high level? This is something you think about?

我觉得我就是固执，而且，你知道，我反正都要锻炼，所以偶尔不如用它做点什么。你知道，我就是这样的人。这是我的天性。你知道，我们参加了一个男子慢投垒球联盟，我忘了自己有多享受了。我就是喜欢竞争。

I think I'm just stubborn and, you know, I'm gonna work out anyway, so I might as well do something with it every once in a while. You know, I it's just who I am. It's in my nature. You know, we played in a, a men's slow pitch softball league, and I forgot how much I enjoyed that. I just like I just like competing.

我喜欢，我就是享受这个过程，老兄。如果我要锻炼，我就会努力锻炼。我不能只是，哦，你知道，去做些zone two的训练。你知道，我试过那样，有一段时间我就像，哦，你知道，也许一周三天，我下午的训练课就做zone two类型的锻炼。然后我会低头一看，发现自己在zone three或zone four，不管我在做什么。

I like, I I just enjoy it, man. And if I'm gonna be working out, I'm gonna be working out hard. I can't just, oh, you know, go do some zone two. You know, I've tried that where I've gone through periods of like, oh, you know, maybe three days a week, just my afternoon session will be a zone two type workout. And then I'll look down and I'm zone three or zone four doing whatever I'm doing.

所以反正也没什么价值。你知道，我还不如去做些Metcon或CrossFit之类的训练。然后，你知道，它逐渐演变成了——显然我还会参加公开赛，只要我身体健康或觉得自己能行，也会尽可能参加一些搭档或团队比赛。最近几年我们还开始打猎了。天啊，这简直就是最原始、最极致的竞赛。

So it's worthless anyway. So, you know, I might as well be doing some type of, you know, Metcon or CrossFit style something. And then, you know, it's it's transformed into, you know, obviously, I'm still I'll do the open, as long as, you know, I'm healthy or feel like I can do it and do some type of partner or team competition as long as I can. And then we've gotten into hunting over the last couple of years. And man, it's just the original ultimate competition.

对我来说，我必须要有可以竞争的东西，就像我之前说的，需要一个目标去训练，感觉需要为某项任务或正在做的事情、参加的比赛保持最佳状态。我就是需要这个。我本身不是那种设定具体目标的人，比如必须完成某个举重重量或跑出某个配速，但我需要有一个靶子或方向去瞄准。是的。否则我就会像个无头苍蝇一样四处徘徊，寻找落脚点。

And for me, I have to have something to compete in, something like I was saying earlier to aim at, to train for, and and feel like I need to be in optimal shape for said task or whatever I'm doing or whatever I'm competing in. I just need that. I'm not a goals guy per se of like, oh, I need to, you know, hit this lift or I need to have this time or mile time or whatever, but I need to have a target or something to kind of aim at or look towards. Yeah. Or else I'm just kind of an aimless soul looking around for, you know, somewhere to land.

所以我需要——你知道，信仰显然是我身份的核心部分，我也毫不避讳地告诉别人这一点。我在圣经人物中与大卫很有共鸣（无论好坏）。里面有段经文说'当列王出战的时候'，后续故事是大卫留守没有出征。接着恶念滋生，转眼他就和拔示巴在一起，引发了那场闹剧。所以我总觉得：必须让大脑专注于某事或为某事训练，否则我就...毫无目标。

And so I need, know, I I obviously faith is a huge part of who I am, and and I'm I'm very unashamed to tell people that. And somebody that I connect good or bad with is David in the Bible. And there's a verse in there that says, at a time when kings went to war, and kind of the story after that is David stayed back and he didn't go out to war and he didn't go do these things. And then, you know, bad thoughts creep in and next thing you know, he's with Bathsheba and, know, that whole debacle. And so I'm like, I have to keep my brain aimed at something or training for something or else I'm just, you know, kinda I I no purpose.

对吧？这就是我的思维模式。既然要做某事，不如就全心投入。对吧？

Right? And so, that's just kinda where my mentality goes. And and if I'm gonna be doing something, I might as well do it all in. Right?

是啊。正所谓——魔鬼专找闲人下手。

Yeah. The the the whole, the devil makes work for Idol fans.

没错。正是如此。

That's right. That's right.

嗯。所以你觉得你坚持到现在纯粹就是因为还在坚持？仅仅如此？不然还能

Yeah. So you think you're literally still in it just because you're still in it. Just because. What else am

做什么呢？懂吧？某种程度上是我自作自受——给自己施加了这种老旧的压力：不能垮掉。虽然以38岁的标准来说我已经衰退很多，但毕竟还是个38岁的男人。我会想：好吧。

I gonna do? You know? Like and and and I've kind of done it to myself where it's the I put this old pressure on me where it's like, can't fall. I mean, I've fallen off a lot for a 38 year old man, but I'm still a 38 year old man. I'm like, alright.

和其他38岁甚至三十五岁左右的人比怎么样？对吧？所以也有这方面因素。这种预期几乎让乐趣打了折扣，但同时也给我一种紧迫感：嘿，你不能彻底摆烂。还是要保持那种不确定性和神秘感。

Where am I at against the other 38 year old men or even 30 mid thirties. Right? And so, there's a little bit of that. It's almost like it's expected, which makes it a little less fun, but also, you know, hey, it gives me a little sense of urgency of like, hey, you can't just, you know, completely fall off. You still have to have, you know, there's this, like, kind of uncertainty and mystique to it.

对吧？所以得配得上这份期待。不过嘛，现实就是这样。

Right? So you got to live up to that. But Yeah. It is what it is.

你得保持一定程度的职业礼节。

You got a you got a level of professional courtesy to maintain.

是的，没错，没错。我不想让任何人失望。你知道吗，我小时候美国有部电影。

Yeah. That's right. That's right. I don't want anybody to walk away. You know, there's a there's a movie in The States when I was a kid.

叫《天使在人间》，孩子们看着一张照片。有人说那是梅尔·克拉克，他以前是投手，以前很厉害。另一个孩子走过来问：你以前是梅尔·克拉克？这场景一直印在我脑海里，现在我的孩子也到这个年纪了，他们可能会说：你以前是地球上最健壮的人。

It was called Angels in the Outfield, and these kids are looking at this picture. And the guy's like, that that's Mel Clark. And he, you know, he used to pitch and used to do this. The other kid walks up to the guy and he's like, You used to be Mel Clark? And so it just lives in my head of like, you know, my kids are getting to the age and they're like, used to be the fittest man on earth.

你以前赢得过CrossFit大赛。我就说：是啊孩子们，我以前可是风光无限呢。要知道，我永远回不到十年前、十二年前甚至五年前的状态了。但我至少还能让人紧张一下，让那些说'我赢了里奇'的人觉得这仍然有意义，而不是觉得'他老了，不行了'。

You used to win the CrossFit games. And I'm like, Yeah, kids. I used to be rich fronting, you know? So like, wanna, you know, I'll never be what I was ten, twelve years ago, even five years ago. But I can still be, you know, at least keep people on edge a little bit and make it, you know, if if somebody's gonna say, oh, I beat Rich at whatever workout or whatever competition, at least, you know, it still means something where they're not like, yeah, he's old and washed up at this point.

没关系。我完全理解。你之前稍微提到过，但你对受伤有多警惕？除了你说的通过重复动作模式来'润滑关节'之外，还有什么其他预防措施吗？

Doesn't matter. Yeah. Absolutely love that. How conscious you kind of touched on this a bit earlier, but how conscious of injury are you and how do you mitigate other than, you know, you mentioned earlier, just greasing the groove in them movement patterns that are a little bit more sort of injurious. But is there anything else you do?

是的，我会定期做身体护理。有个理疗师帮我，原本我以为肩膀必须做手术，现在恢复了99%。很多动作都能无痛完成，而去年备赛期间严重到影响睡眠。

Yeah. I mean, I I do regular bodywork. I've got a guy that I work with that, basically helped me, but I thought my shoulder was a bay I was, you know, had to have surgery. It's back to probably 99%. I can do a lot of things without pain, which at some at one point, I I was having trouble sleeping is how bad it was when I was, kind of prime towards the end last year of competing.

所以必须坚持护理，确保进行干针治疗。热身时我会做康复和预康复训练，更重视热身/放松环节，加入康复性、预防性或辅助性训练。

So that's been good. So, you know, I have to stay on top of, making sure I'm I'm dry needling. And then doing a bunch of like, for warm up stuff, I'll do rehab and prehab stuff. So a lot more emphasis on warm ups slash cool downs. And in those, I'll do rehab, prehab or just accessory work.

这些训练不那么有趣炫酷，但效果显著。有时肩膀酸痛时我才意识到：多久没做真正的活动度强化训练了？不是单纯的活动度（我柔韧性不错），而是刻意缓慢的全范围强化，而非莽撞行事。

You know, the less fun, less sexy types of things, but it has helped a ton and just making sure, you know, those things are not neglected. You know, I'll go through times where I'm like, oh, man, now my shoulders kind of nagging me. I'm like, when was the last time I did any type of real kind of mobile not even mobility. I'm pretty mobile. But like actually strengthening through the range of motion being deliberate and slow instead of just crashing into something and being more smart with that.

显然孩子上学时我做得更好，夏天就得早起训练2-3小时，下午再抽空补练。但这些预防性训练常因时间紧张被忽略。

And so obviously there's times a year where I'm better at that when the kids are in school and I have more time. You know, this in the summer, I'm like, alright. I'm getting up a little bit earlier than I normally would. We're going out in the bar and we're getting after it for two or three two hours usually before the kids get up. And then I maybe sneak something in the afternoon down in the basement or whatever.

我现在更注意这方面。当问题出现时才惊觉：说好的康复训练根本没做！睡眠也很关键，如果躺床8-8.5小时但只睡6.5小时，手环会告诉我状态多糟糕。

But that stuff is kind of seemed to go by the wayside just with time. But, you know, I'm trying to be smarter about that. And then, you know, when things creep up, I'm like, oh, yeah, you've not really been doing any of that rehab stuff that you said you were going to do, you know? So those are the main things. So sleep sleep is a huge piece of that, you know, like if I don't get if I'm not laying down for at least eight, eight and a half hours, know, obviously whoop tells me how terrible, you know, I'll be in bed for eight, eight and a half hours, but I'm only slept for six and a half.

但如果我平时睡眠不足七个半到八小时，十有八九不是受伤就是生病。

But if I'm not above seven, seven and a half hours on the regular, I'm either getting injured or getting sick nine times out of 10.

你会不会有时候看着那些数据想，我到底在干什么？就像《搏击俱乐部》里那样厌倦了吗？比如我到底

Do you ever look at that data sometimes and think like, what am I doing? Like, am I tired of Durden? Like, what am

我这是怎么了？

I what's going on?

哪里有

Where There's

我就想，好吧。我刚把自己累垮了，得了什么劳损，然后心想，该死，明天还得再来一遍。后天还得继续。日复一日永无止境。不过话说回来，我宁愿这样也比整天瘫在沙发上无所事事强。

I'm like, alright. I just, you know, crushed myself and I got whatever strain and I'm like, shit, I gotta do this again tomorrow. And then I gotta do it again the next day. And then I gotta do it, you know, like, there's just it just never ends. But, hey, you know, I'd rather it be that way than, you know, just sitting on my couch doing whatever.

是啊。我以前常开玩笑说可穿戴设备、追踪器这些东西。总说我不需要这种负面干扰

Yeah. I used to joke about about wearables, trackables and stuff. And I used to say, I don't need that type of negativity in

没错。说实话，我看WHOOP主要关注睡眠而非恢复数据。如果连续三天显示红色预警，那基本就是在提醒我快要生病了。

Yeah. My Yeah. No. Honestly, main thing I look at on on WHOOP is sleep, not really recovery. If I have kind of three days in the red, it's more of just like I'm bracing to get sick.

我不会因此调整训练计划，也不会改变什么。可能会试着多睡会儿，强调'大家该睡觉了'。但训练方面，我会查看疲劳值趋势——比如工作忙导致运动量不足时，就会开始焦虑'练得不够'。

I'm not going to change anything training wise. I'm not going to do anything. I might try to get more sleep, try to like emphasize, hey, everybody, let's get to bed. But then also as training goes, I will look at my strain and just kind of see how I'm trending, right? You know, like, if I get super busy and know my I'm not doing as much fitness, then I start to get a little stressed like, oh, you're not doing enough.

状态肯定会倒退，毕竟最新一次训练决定当前水平嘛。自我价值感完全与之绑定。不过大体上我只把它当工具，不会过度沉迷。前两年备战莱德维尔越野赛时确实特别有用——主要是有氧训练为主，虽然我没用他们新增的肌肉负荷记录功能（那会更影响疲劳值计算），但确实很受益。

You're going to backslide a little bit, you know, You're only as good as your last workout always. And so, you know, your self worth is completely wrapped up in that. But for the most part, I, you know, I use it as a tool and I don't get too obsessed with it. But, yeah, it was super beneficial for Leadville, you know, like last couple of years because it is more I don't do a ton of the like, you know, programming of like, let me type in my muscular load on each workout and going through all that, which they've added as of late, which would probably affect my strain way more. But I think, you know, training for Leadville and and being mostly aerobic work, it was pretty beneficial.

确实。就像你说的，观察趋势很有帮助。有些问题自己根本意识不到，有时候确实如此。

Yeah. Like like you said, like, seeing those trends can be helpful. Right? Because there are things you just don't even you don't even realize. And sometimes Yeah.

为什么我感觉这么糟糕？还有那个“是的”。

Why do I feel like such shit? And the Yeah.

发生什么事了？

What is going on?

是啊。真是个谜。是的。没错。然后你一看，就会想，哦，我不知道我每晚只睡五个小时。

Yeah. It's a mystery. Yeah. Yep. And then you look and you're like, oh, I I don't know I'm sleeping for five hours a night.

我刚刚连续四天把自己累垮了，只睡了六个小时。你知道吗？

I've just ran myself into the ground for four days and slept six hours. You know?

这些年来，你与营养、与食物的关系发生了怎样的变化？因为我记得，我们说的是几年前，看到YouTube视频，还有像一些老派的媒体视频，你自己在谈论食物，而我觉得那甚至都称不上是营养。这些年它是如何改变的？

How has your, relationship with nutrition, with food changed over the years? Because I I can remember, we're talking years back now, that the seeing, YouTube videos and, like, sort of old old school media videos of yourself talking about food and your I think it's a reach to even call it nutrition. How has that changed over the years?

我会说在30岁的时候，我达到了一个数字，这其实不是为了身体成分或类似的东西，而更多是为了照顾自己。我认为早期，吃那些东西只是热量密度非常高，但营养含量很低，你知道，所有那些类型的东西。你知道，因为我当时吃得不多，如果这说得通的话。所以就像，试图把很多卡路里塞进一小点里，因为如果我忙起来，我的大脑就会关闭，我只专注于任务，而吃饭不是一个我需要做的任务，直到我落后了才想起来。对吧？

I would say at 30, I kind of hit a number and it's not really for body comp or anything like that, but more of just taking care of myself. I think early on, was eating all those things just super dense caloric wise, but pretty low nutritional, you know, all those types of things. You know, I because of the amount that I was not eating, if that makes sense. So like, was trying to get a lot of calories packed into a small point because if I get busy and my brain switches off and I just go to tasks and eating is not a task that I need to do to kind of keep going until I get behind. Right?

所以当我30岁时，我开始更深入地研究它的宏量营养素，你知道，所以作为一个经验法则，根据训练量，我会调整我的碳水化合物。但大部分情况下，我的脂肪和蛋白质摄入量保持大致相同。所以我大约摄入100克脂肪，200克或略多于200克蛋白质。我有时可能会在蛋白质上稍微多吃一点，但200克是一个不错的数字，蛋白质克数。然后我的碳水化合物会根据训练量在400到500克之间波动。

And so when I was 30, I kind of I really started diving more into the macros of it, you know, so I as a rule of thumb, depending on the amount of training, I'll adjust my carbs. But for the most part, my fats and proteins stay about the same. So I'm around, 100 grams of fat, 200 or a little over 200. I may go a little bit heavy on the protein depending on the day, but 200 is a good number, grams of protein. And then my carbs will fluctuate anywhere from four to 500 depending on the amount of volume.

你知道，在莱德维尔（Leadville）比赛中，显然，我在自行车上摄入了大量的卡路里。而且，你知道，在任何类型的耐力活动中，如果你在碳水化合物上落后了，你就追不回来了。对吧？

You know, Leadville, obviously, I was taking in a ton of just calories on the bike. And, you know, if you get behind on on carbs on any type of endurance thing, you're there's you're not catching up. Right?

是的。是的。

Yeah. Yeah.

所以这些都是我真正开始更加注意的事情，只是为了了解我的身体感觉如何，以及如果摄入不足，我会把自己累垮到什么程度。因此我会说，在过去的七、八年里，我在这方面肯定变得更聪明了。当然，这会随着发生的事情、生活以及那些类型的事情而波动。而且，你知道，但尝试做更多高质量的事情，摄入更多高质量的食物。所以我确实尝试过，而且我觉得感觉还不错，那就是间歇性断食。

And so those those were things that I really had to start to pay attention to more for just how my body felt and how much I'd run myself into the ground if I wasn't taking it enough. And so I would say in the last seven, eight years, I've definitely been smarter about that. Now that fluctuates with, you know, what's going on and and life and those types of things. And, you know, but trying to do more quality things, take in more quality, food. And so I did try and I'd say pretty did a pretty felt good on it with, was intermittent fasting.

我那样做了大概四五年。然后到了35、36岁左右，毫无预兆地，我开始体重下降。在那个进食窗口里，我就是无法摄入足够的热量。所以现在，我日常的常规做法是：早上喝一杯蛋白奶昔，吃一个百吉饼；中午吃午餐；然后晚餐。通常是这三餐，如果感觉饿或者觉得当天热量摄入不足，睡前可能还会吃点东西。

I did that for probably four or five years. And then out of nowhere, of about 35, 36, 35, I just started dropping weight. And I just couldn't get enough calories in that window. And so now, you know, my kind of day to day or go to is in the morning, I'll have a protein shake, a bagel, and then midday, I'll eat some lunch and then dinner. Those are usually about three meals and maybe something right before bed if I feel either hungry or just feel like I didn't get enough calories in the day.

我会尽量摄入一些燕麦片和蛋白质之类的东西。但确实，有些日子我会明显感觉今天吃得不够。所以会在睡前尽量补充一些。我有爱吃甜食的习惯，这是过去两三年里我一直试图戒掉的东西。

I'll try to take in, you know, some either oatmeal and some protein, something like that. But, yeah, there's been days where I'm like, yeah, definitely didn't eat enough today. And so, you know, try to get something in right before before bed. So I have a sweet tooth. And so that's something that I've tried to like in the last two or three years, try to eliminate a lot of that.

我对爱吃甜食没什么意见。我内心并不特别反对糖分，但某种程度上你会意识到，如果在追求更好营养的同时摄入这些，就会成为问题。我觉得奇怪的是，它应该是一种补充，应该是'除此之外'而不是'取而代之'，对吧？这样想是好的。

I have no like qualms with having a sweet tooth. Like there's nothing in me that's like particularly anti sugar, but you could at some point you realize like if you're consuming stuff in the space of of a better nutrition like that, that's a problem. Like, I think it's weird because it kind of needs to be an additive. It needs to be as well as, not instead of, doesn't it? Which is good.

这就是它会成为阻碍的地方。

That's where it can get in the way.

这就是问题所在。这就是你会遇到麻烦的地方。

That's where it gets in. That's where you get in trouble.

没错。你对世界健身计划（World Fitness Project）有什么看法？

Yeah. What are your thoughts on the World Fitness Project?

哦，老兄。作为一名运动员，我认为它曾经很棒，现在也很棒。它给运动员提供了更多比赛机会和赚钱途径。我们现在可能正处在一个十字路口，运动员们将不得不做出选择，因为这样会把自己累垮。多年来，我参加CrossFit大赛和邀请赛——那是个很棒的比赛。

Oh, man. I think as an athlete, I think it was great or is great. I think, given athletes more chance to compete, more ways to make money. We're gonna probably we're, you know, we're coming to a crossroads with all of it right now where athletes are going to have to kind of decide because you're going to run yourself into the ground. You know, for years, I competed at the games and the Invitational, which was an awesome event.

我基本上全年都在训练。我知道这对身体和精神造成的损耗。身体方面，你还能恢复过来，通过一些小型的休赛期调整。但精神上，老兄，这简直就是煎熬，长时间保持那种竞技水平，最终会开始产生负面影响。

And I trained kind of year round. Right? And I know what kind of toll that takes on your body and your mind really, you know, like body wise, you can kind of to rebound from it or being. Body wise, you can rebound from it and have these little kind of mini offseasons, but mentally man, it's just a grind and and and to be at that level for that long. It'll start to take a toll.

所以我认为这可能是件非常好的事，也确实是一件好事。但如果我们深入讨论CrossFit、WFP以及所有这些如何协同运作，那话题就深了。我现在还没有确切的答案，我觉得需要观望。但任何能帮助运动员谋生和发展的事情，我认为都很棒。只要它最终能回馈或滋养加盟商和社区，因为这才是关键。

And so I, you know, I think it's it could be a really good thing and and is a good thing. But we're, I mean, we're, you know, we're getting into a deep conversation if we're talking about how CrossFit, WFP, all of this kind of all works together. And I I don't really have the answer to it right now. I think it's gonna be a kind of a a wait and see, but I think anything that helps the athletes kind of make a living and and do those things, I think it's great. As long as it somehow also ties back into or feeds the affiliates or feeds the community because that's it.

我身后墙上有一张图表你们看不到，上面展示着：运动滋养加盟商，加盟商滋养媒体，媒体回馈运动，再回馈加盟商，最后回馈到我。它们是一个整体。如果抽掉其中一环，其他部分就难以立足。看到它曾经的辉煌和现在的状况，令人沮丧。我未必有解决方案。

I mean, have kind of a diagram up here behind me on the wall that you can't see is, you know, sport feeds affiliate, feeds media, feeds back to sport, feeds back to affiliate, back to me. Like, they all work together. And I think if you pull one out, then the whole other part of it, it it just doesn't stand. And so, you know, to see what it was at its heyday and to see where it is now, it's frustrating. And and, you know, I don't I don't necessarily have the answers.

你知道，我有一些想法，但看到现状就是令人沮丧。所以我觉得WFP可能是件好事。我们拭目以待吧，时间会证明一切，对吧？

You know, I have some some ideas, but it's just it's frustrating to see. And so I think WFP could be a good thing. We'll see. Time will tell. Right?

直接接着这个话题说，你可能已经厌倦回答这个问题了，但假设在不久的将来，你被邀请执掌CrossFit大权，请详细说说这对你而言的利弊。

Moving on directly from that, actually, and you're probably so bored of fielding this question now, but in a hypothetical in a hypothetical near future where you're offered to see the head of the table of CrossFit, run me through the pros and cons of that for you.

哦，老兄。弊端就是失去自由。说真的，就算我生活毫无变化，我也非常满足。我能做热爱的事，每天醒来陪孩子们玩耍。

Oh, man. The the cons are freedom. Man, if nothing changed about my life today, I'm perfectly content. You know, I get to do what I love. I get to wake up, hang out with my kids.

能在家里锻炼，能在这里训练，能和朋友们聚会，制作酷炫视频，设计训练方案。这简直是我十九二十岁时梦想的完美生活。所以弊端就是这种生活必须改变。

I get to work out at my house. I get to work out here. I get to hang out with my friends, make cool videos, make up workouts. Like, I have what I would have, you know, at at nineteen twenty said literally the perfect life. So the cons would be that that would have to change.

好处显然是尝试让这项运动回归本源，重现它曾经的辉煌，重现那种让你我沉浸其中、让这栋楼里所有人中午都来参加公开训练课的特殊魅力。好处在于向人们展示这项运动曾经多么精彩、未来可以多美好。而弊端，就像我说的，会失去自由行动权——Mayhem本质上是我生命的延伸。我这里有支了不起的团队，我那些疯狂点子要么被他们实现，要么被他们直言否决。

You know, I think the pros obviously would be to try to help bring this thing back to what it was, what it could be, how special it, you know, got you into it, got me into it, got all the people out here in this building out here doing the, you know, mid midday open gym class. And so, man, the pros would be that is is show people how awesome this thing was and could be. And the cons, obviously, like I said, the freedom to do and, you know, mayhem is is basically an extension of me. And I've got an incredible team here that, you know, these stupid ideas that I come up with either they make them happen or they tell me that's a stupid idea and we don't do it. You know?

所以这绝非我一人之功。但确实，利弊主要就这两方面。

So it's it's not all me for sure. But, man, yeah, those are those are the two things.

向人们展示这项运动的惊人潜力具体是指什么？

What does what does showing people how incredible this thing can be look like?

是这样，我们刚结束 affiliate 巡回活动，去阿马里洛参加了山地车比赛。四天里跑了六家健身房？其实是五天七家。无论在库克维尔、杰克逊、科利尔维尔（均属田纳西州）、史密斯堡、小石城还是阿马里洛，遇到的都是同类人。回溯到一月份，我们还去过西班牙、法国、德国。

Yeah. I think, you know, we just got off an affiliate tour where we went to Amarillo for that mountain bike race. We stopped at six gyms, in what, four days? Seven gyms in five days, really. And, man, it's the same type of people, in Cookeville, in Jackson, Tennessee, in Collierville, Tennessee, in Fort Smith, in Little Rock, in Amarillo slash, you look back in January, we were we were in Spain, we were in France, we were in Germany.

到处是相同的人群，相同的故事：人们最初想着'我要开始锻炼了'而接触这项运动，如今却成就非凡，生活更美好，朋友更多，健康状况明显改善。他们找到了归属感，正在激励他人并改变别人的人生。这些故事正是我们所有人投身其中、持续回归的原因。现在它依然在创造这样的奇迹。

And it's the same people, and it's the same stories of, you know, people that just got into it thinking, oh, I, you know, I wanna start working out. And, man, now they're doing incredible things, and their life is better, and they have more friends and they're, there's just health is better, obviously, you know, but they they belong to something and they're uplifting others and changing other people's lives. And those stories are are why we all got into it or why we all keep coming back. And, man, it's it's just, that's that's how and it's still doing that. You know?

虽然你会看到某些网络媒体人散布悲观论调，但真正深入加盟健身房就会发现，每个人都在创造非凡。问题在于如何让更多人知道这一切。我们团结一致肯定比各自为政更强大。虽然不知道具体解决方案，但我清楚当我们朝同一方向努力时，这项运动能迸发多么惊人的能量。

Like, you you see the doom and gloom from, you know, certain media personalities online. But really when you get into the Affiliates and into the gyms, it's the same, you know, everybody's doing these incredible things. And so it's just like, how do we tell more people? And I think, you know, we're all better together than we are better in these different fractured kind of, pieces and parts of it. And, you know, I I don't know if I have the answer to it, but, man, I just know how awesome awesome it could be if we were all pulling the same direction.

是的。是的。毫无疑问。需要更多连贯的思考。我准备了一些，我准备了一些快速问答环节给你。

Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. Some more joined up thinking. I've got a, I've got a a round of quick fire questions for you.

所以就

So just

直接脱口而出，你锻炼时必听的歌单是什么？

straight off the top of your head, what are your go to workout tunes?

锻炼歌单。哦，老兄。最近我真的很喜欢摩根·沃伦的那张新专辑，真的很棒。然后，当然，我所有...我我有一个信仰歌单，我们经常就放着听。

Workout tunes. Oh, man. Right now, I really like that new Morgan Wallen album. It's been really good. And then, obviously, all my my I I have a faith playlist that we just kinda put on regularly.

不过，是的，乡村音乐或敬拜音乐，这些是我的首选。

But, yeah, country or worship music, those are my go tos.

不错。如果你能和任何在世或已故的人一起训练或出去跑步，你会选谁？

Nice. If you could train or head out on a run with anyone alive or dead, who would it be?

我的意思是，那必须是耶稣。对吧？对我来说。

I mean, it has to be Jesus. Right? For me.

我我100%同意。我的意思是，我做过...我不是在开玩笑或随便说说。我只是...我100%知道话一出口你就会这么说。兄弟，我...我不是说我知道这很容易被当成玩笑，但我当时就想，他肯定会说 是的。

I I 100%. I mean, I've done I'm not saying this in any facetious way or so. I just I 100% knew you were gonna say as soon as the words come out. My man, I'm I'm not saying I know it's so easy to say that as a joke, but I was like, he's gonna say Yeah.

这是...我的意思是，那是我必须知道的。你知道，今天早上我和孩子们聊的一些事情，我还没有答案。你知道吗？

It's I mean, that's I gotta know. You know, there's some things me and the kids talked about this morning that I don't have answers to. You know?

是的。你会把它当作一个机会来

Yeah. You'd use it as an opportunity to to

当然。你知道，任何说自己不会飞的人。你懂吗？

Absolutely. You know, anybody that said they wouldn't fly. You know?

如果你余生只能做一种力量训练，那会是什么？

If you could only do one strength training exercise for the rest of your life, what would it be?

无痛的还是，或者带痛的？是的。你懂吗？

Pain free or or, with pain? Yeah. You know?

就像最好的情况就是最佳情景。是的。

Like Best best case is the best case scenario. Yeah.

好吧。所以对我个人来说，我会选择抓举。我就是喜欢它。你知道，它算是全身运动。要么是抓举，要么是我讨厌的——或者说是推力器。

Alright. So I would say the snatch for me personally. I just enjoy it. It's, you know, kind of total body. It's between the snatch or I hate it or the thruster.

推力器是个很好的动作，你可以做重负荷，也可以做轻负荷。你能完成深蹲，也能完成推举。你能得到所有这些，但我讨厌它。

The thruster is such a good you can do it heavy. You can do it light. You can you get a squat. You get a press. You get all those things, but I hate it.

至于抓举，我只是，你知道，你仍然能得到所有那些，但它更好。更优雅，更优美。你懂吗？

In a snatch, I just you know, you still get all of that, but it's better. It's more elegant. It's beautiful. You know?

你的临终餐会是什么？

What's your death row meal?

哦，临终餐啊。一份战斧牛排

Oh, death row meal. A tomahawk steak

还有一个苹果派。哦，太棒了。那真的很不错。你可以跳进一个传送门，穿越回过去和16岁的里奇说话，但传送门会在三十秒后关闭。

and an apple pie. Oh, beautiful. That's that's really nice. You can hop in a portal. You can travel back in time and talk to a 16 year old Rich, but the portal is gonna close in thirty seconds.

那时候你打算对他说什么？

What are you gonna say to him in that time?

一切都会好起来的，孩子。

It'll all be alright, kid.

很好。非常棒。这是个很棒的结尾。Rich，非常感谢你今晚能来参加，也谢谢你的时间。

Nice. Very nice. That's a great way to end. Rich, thank you so much for, joining me this evening, and thank you so much for time.

兄弟，哥们儿。随时来Cook Real坐坐。

Brother, man. Come hang out in Cook Real anytime.

太感谢了，伙计。

Thank you so much, mate.