杰森·福克斯：前特种部队成员、作家、主持人与探险家

大家好，欢迎收听本期《男士健康小队》对话节目，我们的嘉宾是冒险家、前英国特种部队士兵、电视节目《SAS：谁敢赢》明星杰森·福克斯。我们在福克斯刚完成《男士健康》封面拍摄后与他坐下畅谈，聊到了他的训练历程、在英国特种部队期间的所学所历、对培养军人思维模式的见解，以及他在心理健康问题上的挣扎与后续领悟的人生哲理——这些他如今都努力实践于日常生活中。这无疑是我经历过最有趣、最具启发性也最令人愉悦的对话之一。杰森提供了大量可实操的建议和发人深省的观点，所有这些都来自一个确曾历经生活烈火淬炼的男人的视角。希望大家能和我一样享受这次对话。

Hello, and welcome to this Men's Health Squad conversation with Adventurer, former UK Special Forces soldier and star of the TV show SAS Who Dares Wins, Jason Fox. We sat down with Foxy fresh off of the back of his men's health cover shoot to talk about his training history, what he learned and what he experienced during his time in the UK Special Forces, his thoughts on the idea of cultivating a military mindset and his struggles with poor mental health and the subsequent lessons he learned that he tries to implement in his daily life. This was genuinely one of the most interesting, insightful and entertaining conversations I think I've ever had. Jason dishes up plenty of actionable takeaways, as well as lots to think about, all from the point of view of a man who has definitely walked through the fire throughout his life. And I hope you enjoy this chat as much as I did.

我们刚结束你首次心理健康主题封面拍摄。现在感觉如何？

We are freshly back from your first mental health cover shoot. How are feeling?

挺好的。紧张感已经消失了。总算结束了。

Yeah. Good. The nerves have gone now. It's over.

我想人们听说你今天早上那么紧张都会感到惊讶。

I think people would be surprised to hear how nervous you were this morning.

很明显吗？

Was it obvious?

嗯，有一点。是的，确实。

Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

我当时很紧张。是的，确实紧张。我觉得自己通常不是那种容易紧张的人。

I was nervous. Yeah. I was. Yeah. I'm not I'm not that sort of person, I don't think.

怎么说呢，我真的很...不知道。我不会。我在游泳池边或度假时很不愿意脱掉上衣。这让我老婆很头疼。

I'm like, I'm very I don't know. I won't. I'm I'm reluctant to take my top off if I'm around a pool or on holiday. Does my missus's head in.

你觉得这种想法是从哪里来的？

Where do think that comes from?

不知道。有意思。其实我也不知道。

Don't know. Interesting. I don't know, actually.

说到这里要记住，等节目播出时，大家都见过你的身材了。所以每个男人都会看着想说：你到底在担心什么？

At this point, bear in mind, when this goes live, everyone's seen your rig. So every every man is looking and going, what are you worried about?

我不知道。我不知道是什么原因。我不确定是不是...算了，我们别谈这个了

I don't know. I don't know what it is. I don't know whether it's a I don't know. Let's not go

对你来说。是的。我们刚开始。我们才刚开始。没错。

to you. Yeah. We just started. We just started. Yeah.

我们来聊聊你的训练经历。在加入部队之前，健身对你意味着什么？

Us through your training history. What did fitness mean to you before you joined the forces?

说实话，我欠我父亲很多。他把我和我的兄弟们抚养得很好，教了我们很多东西。在我们小时候他还比较年轻的时候，他自己就很注重健身，还当过体育教练。他年轻时打过很多橄榄球。

So I my dad, I've got a lot to I owe my old man a lot, to be fair. He's he bought me and my brothers up pretty well. He taught us an awful lot, and he was big into fitness himself at the time when when we were kids and he was still reasonably young. And he also coached sport. So he played a lot of rugby when he was younger.

后来他开始执教曲棍球。我和我的兄弟们打过一些橄榄球，也玩过一些曲棍球。我们还会参加他为训练的团队举办的健身课程。作为他的孩子，我们会跟着去，闹着玩，做一些动作，跳来跳去，在田野里奔跑。但当我15岁的时候，我决定加入海军陆战队，我父亲就说，既然你要加入海军陆战队，我希望你做好准备。

He then got into coaching hockey. Me and my brothers played a bit of rugby, played a bit of hockey. And we would also jump in on his his fitness sessions for the teams that he was training. So his kids, we would go along and, like, muck around and do a bit of movement, jump around, run through the fields. But then when I was 15, pretty much, 15 year old, and I decided I was joining the marines, my dad was like, well, if you're joining the marines, I want you to be ready.

他给我发了一个计划，说你需要做这些，你需要学习如何爬绳。所以15岁时，我用零花钱给自己买了一个背包，然后把它装满。我过去常常跑上跑下。

And he sent me a program and said, you need to do this. You need to do some of this. You need to learn how to climb rope. So I used to as at 15 years old, I bought myself a rucksack, a bit of pocket money, and then loaded it up. And I used to run up and down.

我过去常常有目的地急行军或步行，从卢顿沿着A5公路走到米尔顿凯恩斯。我父亲有个朋友在一个叫布莱切利的地方的学校当体育老师，他们那里有一些绳子。我常常一路沿着A5公路走，路上有人对我大声辱骂，走到那里后爬绳子，做几个波比跳，然后坐火车回来。

I used to yomp or walk with purpose from Luton up the A 5 to Milton Keynes, and there was my dad had a friend who was who was a p p PE teacher at a school in a place called Bletchley, and they had some ropes. I used to do this walk all the way up the A 5, get people hurling abuse at me, go up there and then climb ropes, do some burpees, and then get on a train back.

15岁的时候？是啊。这么说你已经坚持很久了？

At fifteen? Yeah. Yeah. So so is you've been at it a while?

那是我开始的时候，我不知道是不是因为我那么决心要加入部队、加入海军陆战队，所以我就……是的，我全身心投入其中。我过去常常早起，跑到离我们很近的橄榄球俱乐部，在橄榄球场上做循环训练，你知道，在冬天天气寒冷的时候。我想我把自己练得够呛。

That's when I started, and I sort of I don't know whether I was so determined to join the forces, join the marines that I just yeah. I I threw myself into it. I used to get up early, run down to the rugby club that was near to us, do a circuit on the rugby pitches, you know, in the winter when it was freezing. I suppose I caught myself the bunk.

嗯。一旦你进入部队，除了必须完成的训练之外，你有没有自己主动做一些训练，比如真正的体能训练？那时候那里的训练对你来说足够吗？

Mhmm. Once you were in the forces, outside of the training you had to do, did you do any training, like, you know, real phys of your own initiative? Was there there was was there enough for you there at that point?

一开始并没有。当你参加新兵训练时，你会被狠狠操练。结束后，你会推迟做任何需要完成的外部事务。所以我有一段时间没做，只是完成分配的所谓'部队体能训练'。

Not at first. So you join when you go through recruit training, you're getting hammered. And when you finish, you you put off it. You put off doing anything that you outside that you need to do. So I didn't do it for a while, and you used to just do the allocated, what they call troop phys, troop physical activity.

所以你们整个小队，三十多号人，每天早上都会出去跑步、做俯卧撑，诸如此类的训练。但后来过了一段时间，在我完成训练并加入皇家海军陆战队单位后，你确实会重新开始投入，然后开始做一些超常规的训练。你可能会开始举重，那时候还是老式举重训练。

So your troop, 30 odd guys, would go out every morning, run around, do press ups, whatever whatever it looked like. But then it was a little bit later on when I started to you know, there'd been some time between me finishing training and then I was in a Royal Marines unit. You you do start to get back into it again, and then you start to do things outside of the norm. You might get into weights. It was a bit of old school weights back in the day.

然后就从此发展起来了。我们之前聊过CrossFit对吧？你知道，我们当时作为部队体能训练进行的传统交叉训练，基本上就像CrossFit。会有不同的训练站点，还会有跑步训练。

And then it's just developed from there. We spoke about CrossFit earlier, didn't we? So, you know, the old school cross training that you used to do as unit physical activity was pretty much like CrossFit. There'd be different workstations. There'd be runs.

还会有自行车训练。你知道，就是各种训练的大杂烩，因为归根结底，你必须具备功能性能力。明白吗？突击课程就像是在跑步中完成各种不同活动。

There'd be bit on the bike. You know, it would just be a mixture of everything because, ultimately, you've got to be able to you've got to be functional. You know? An assault course is like is like a a an different activities on a run. Did

你在整个军旅生涯中一直坚持这种课外训练吗？

you did you keep up with this sort of, like, extracurricular training as you went through your military career?

是的。我想我最终确实坚持了。一旦度过了因为受够了训练而不喜欢任何额外训练的阶段，你就会投入其中，而且你还会接触到不同的人，不同的人喜欢不同的训练方式——你会遇到热爱重量训练的人，于是你就大量进行那种训练；然后又遇到喜欢跑步的人，最后你也会去大量跑步。然后你就会找到自己擅长的领域，而我至今还不知道自己擅长什么

Yeah. I think I did I did eventually. And once I got past that stage of not liking any extra training because I'd had enough of it, You get into it, and then you're with different people as well, and different people like different things you'd get amongst you know, you do you'd be with someone who loves weight training, so you do a load of that. Then you're with somebody who likes running, so you end up going and do a load of that. And then you just find what your niche is, and I still don't know what mine

说实话。没错。这正好是下一个问题，那我们就不多说了。

is to be honest. That's right. That was the next question, so we'll leave that.

不。你知道吗？我觉得我很容易感到无聊，所以我必须不断变换花样。我的意思是，我喜欢在训练中安排不同的模块，就是因为我会觉得单调。

No. I think do you know what? I think I get I get bored really easily, so I have to I have to mix it up. I mean, I I like to have blocks of different training within a workout just because I'll just get bored.

你平常的训练日是什么样的？

What does a normal training day look like for you?

我不确定。但最近就像我说的，我会分模块训练。现在我有一定的时间自由度，所以尽量保证上午有空，专门用来训练。我会先做20分钟的热身运动，让身体活动开。毕竟年纪大了。

I don't know. But I suppose recently, like I said, the blocks will go in. I'll do like, what I do nowadays, I've I have sort of got the luxury of time to a certain degree, so I'll try and make sure that most mornings are free, and I'll I'll allocate that to training. Go in, and I'll do a good twenty minutes of movement, just moving my body, getting it warmed up. You know, I'm older now.

现在容易受伤，因为年轻时不爱热身。给年轻听众的忠告：就算年轻也要热身，否则就会像我这样。我会做大量动态拉伸和泡沫轴放松，然后正式热身，比如在器械上做些交替动作，可能会涉及后续训练内容。

I'm susceptible to injury because I didn't warm up when I was younger. That's a lesson for anyone listening. If you're young, still warm up because you'll end up like me. But, yeah, I I do a lot of movement, a lot of stretching, rolling out stuff. Then I'll get into, like, a proper warm up, you know, do a bit of something on a machine, but alternate it, go through some movements, maybe the movements that I might be doing in the blocked exercises.

接着进行8-12分钟不等的模块训练，可能是超级组练三头肌之类的，中间穿插其他项目。比如练腻了就在组间加一组滑雪机爆发训练。基本上每天都要把自己练到精疲力尽。

Then I'll go into the, you know, like, anything from eight to twelve minute blocks of doing something. It could be, like, supersetting something, tricep, whatever, and then throw in other bits in between. Like, I might get bored of that and then throw in, like, a blast on the ski in between sets. Basically, I tried to absolutely goose myself every day.

每周训练几天？是在健身房还是其他地方？

How many days a week? Are you in the gym, or are you training?

目标是每天训练，但总会有因故缺席的日子。重点在于保持连续性，不会每次都练到极限，那太夸张。对我而言，连续性就是每天都要动起来。比如长途旅行时，至少会在酒店房间做俯卧撑循环、深蹲循环或波比跳。

I'll aim to do every day knowing that one there'll be a day that drops off because commitments are saying otherwise. But a lot of it's to do with the consistency. I won't always, like, absolutely smash myself because that's ridiculous. But consistency for me is about every day doing something. So if I'm, you know, on a long travel day where I'm probably staying away for, you know, a period of time, I'll make sure at least I do something like a press up circuit or squat circuit or burpees in a in a hotel room.

那么我今天就完成运动了。我提高了心率，也锻炼了肌肉。

So then I've got my movement in for the day. I've raised my heart rate. I've worked my muscles.

你是怎么处理的呢？显然你的工作需要你满世界跑，肯定会有不方便去当地健身房的时候。你在路上时是怎么安排训练的？

How do you how do you handle it when you're obviously, your job takes you all over the world, and there's there's gonna be times when, you know, it's not as easy as popping to the local Globo gym. How do you handle training when you're on the road?

我相信自己即使没有任何设备也能完成训练。我会即兴发挥，不需要器械，不过老式的阻力带真是救星。你可以把它们塞在行李的某个角落。我总是确保包里给阻力带留够空间，还带一个小型悬挂训练器。

I know I'm I'm confident in the fact that I know I can do something without anything. I'll improvise. I won't need equipment, but the old resistance bands are a lifesaver. You can stuff them in somewhere. I've always made sure I always make sure that I've got enough room in my bag for some resistance bands, and I've got a little suspension trainer.

不是大品牌那种，就是个轻便的小工具，随处都能安装。把手有点...不是特别好用。

It's not like one of the big brands. It's just this little lightweight one that I can rig up anywhere. Handles are a bit they're not that great.

你就直接把它扔在

Did you just chuck that

酒店房间里？对。它还有门挡功能，挺不错的。是的。

up in a hotel room and Yeah. It's got door jam as well, so it's cool. Yeah. Yeah.

只要你不是在廉价酒店房间里，那里的门...

It works. Unless you're in a cheap hotel room and then the the door

gets the is cool.

gets the is cool.

是的。是的。是的。我认为我们生活在一个时代，尤其是在社交媒体上，有很多强调军事心态和培养纪律性的理念。很多人都在推崇这个。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We are living in a day and age, I think, where there's a lot of emphasis, especially on on social media, this idea of, like, a military mindset and cultivating discipline. There's a lot of people that lean into this.

你显然在军队有丰富的背景，而且你经常公开谈论心理健康。你是否曾看到过这种倾向的缺点——即我们从军队和军内外人士那里获取所有关于纪律等方面的指引？

You obviously have a rich background in the forces, and you're someone who speaks openly often about mental health. Do you ever see a downside to this leaning into this idea of let's take all of our kind of cues on discipline and stuff from the military and from from people in and out of the forces?

我有点矛盾，因为我觉得军队...什么是军队心态？就像我参军之前并不在军队，但我心态还算不错。也许那是我父亲的影响，也许有军队的影响。但我觉得当人们说军队心态时，他们只是指要有纪律性。是的。

I don't I'm a little bit torn on it because I think the military what is the military mindset? It's just like I wasn't in the military before I joined, and I had a half decent mindset. Maybe that did come from my dad. Maybe there was an influence from military. But I think when people say a military mindset, they just mean to have a disciplined Yeah.

对事情的一种处理方式。我在军队待过，后来离开了，并且经历了一段非常糟糕的心理健康时期。我什么都不记得了，我没有运用军队心态，尽管我在军队待了二十年。

Sort of approach to things. Now I was in the military. I left the military, and I went through a really bad spell with mental health. I didn't remember anything. I didn't apply the military mindset, and I'd been in it for twenty years.

我必须提醒自己，而实际上是来自军队以外其他背景的人提醒我，你需要找到另一种方式。当然，一旦我被指引到正确的方向，我确实重新依靠了我的军队心态。我不知道这是好是坏。我觉得如果你能采纳它，那是件好事。我的意思是，我真的不知道我到底想说什么。

I had to remind myself, and it was actually other people from different backgrounds other than the military that reminded me you need to find another. Obviously, when once I got, you know, pointed in the right direction, I did fall back onto my military mindset. I don't know whether it's a good or bad thing. I think it's a good thing if you can if you can adopt it. I mean, I don't I don't know where I'm going with this, really.

但我不喜欢站在那里说，哦，是的，我在军队待过，这是自切片面包以来最棒的事情。因为那样的话，其他人呢？我从许多非军队背景的人那里学到了很多东西。

But I don't like standing there and going, oh, yeah. I was in the military. It's the best thing since sliced bread. Because then what what about other people? There's other I've learned loads from other people that weren't in the military.

实际上，我从非军人的其他人那里获得了灵感。我发现观察那些没有参过军的人，看他们的纪律性以及他们如何运用它，有时候真是令人难以置信。我觉得，是的，这是可以借鉴的，但我认为没必要，你知道，过度滥用。是的。你明白我的意思吗？

I've actually got inspiration from other people in the that aren't in the military. I've found watching people that haven't been in the military, watching their discipline and how they apply it, like, unbelievable at times. I think, yeah, it's something that can be applied, but I don't think it needs to be, you know, milked to death. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

是的。这就像某种吸引特定人群的东西。而且我觉得，你知道吗，如果那是能激励你的东西，那就随它去吧。但

Yeah. It's just like something that appeals to to certain guys. And I I think, you know what, if that's the thing that gets you motivated, then then so be it. But

我认为我从军队中学到的一点并不一定是心态方面的东西。我的意思是，我只是最近才变得真正自律，而这并不是因为我在军队中学到的东西。而是因为我后来学到的东西。你知道，我变得自律是因为在我的日常惯例中，因为我知道这让我感觉良好。在军队的时候，我其实并没有什么纪律性。

I think the one the one thing that I took away from the military wasn't necessarily a mindset thing. I mean, I've only recently become really disciplined, and that's not because of what I learned in the military. It's because of what I learned since. You know, I've become disciplined because in my routines in the day because I know that it makes me feel good. Back in the military, I didn't really have discipline.

我当时只是不得不做某些事，因为我拿钱干活。如果我不出现、不做事，就会被开除，我就会失业。现在我不需要做某些事情了，但我还是做了，因为这让我自我感觉更好。那只是一个有纪律的人的表现，而不是一个前军人的表现。嗯。

I just had to do something because I was getting paid to do it. And if I didn't turn up and do it, I'd get kicked out, and I wouldn't have a job. Now I don't need to do certain things, but I do it because I feel better about myself. That's just a that's just being a disciplined human being, not a not an ex forces guy. Mhmm.

但有一点我——我刚才跑题了。我确实认为军队教会我做得好的一件事是，当事情出错时保持灵活的心态，不要因此而惊慌失措。这帮助我应对创伤。我在军队里学会了如何处理创伤，并且我记住了这一点，并在以后重新应用它。

But the one thing I was I was going off on a tangent then. The one thing that I do think the military did teach me to do well was to have a flexible mindset when things go wrong, not get freaked out by it. And that's helped me deal with trauma. That I have learned to deal with trauma in the military, and I've remembered that and reapplied it going forward.

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什么？对于创伤，我认为很多都是。我记得的部分是今天早些时候我和你聊过的，对吧？是关于情绪方面的，如何衡量情绪，如何控制它，并理解情绪是什么。对我来说，情绪是一个指示器。

from the military? For trauma, I think a lot of it. We the bit that I remember was me and you were talking earlier, weren't we, today? And it was the emotional thing, how to how to gauge emotion, how to control it, and understand what an emotion is. Like, for me, an emotion is is an indicator.

军队教会你最重要的一件事就是不要让情绪成为你下一个决定或做出下一个决定的正当理由。因为最终，如果你让情绪做主，那就会出错。正是这种对情绪的克制帮助我应对创伤。比如，我没事，我感到悲伤。

And the one thing the military taught you very well-to-do was not to allow emotion to be the decision, your next decision, or the fit reason why you make the next decision. Because, ultimately, if you leave it up to emotion, it will be wrong. And it's that tempering your emotion that has helped me deal with trauma. Like, I'm okay. I feel sad.

这意味着我应该感到悲伤，但我不会让它主导我。我意识到它，然后说，哦，好吧。我会接受它，哭泣，难过，随便怎样。但我不会让它影响我的下一个决定。

That means I should be sad, but I'm not gonna let it. I'm, like, aware of it, and I'm like, oh, yeah. Okay. And I'll embrace it, cry, get upset, whatever. But I won't allow it to make my next decision.

就像军队里，你会陷入一些非常离奇的处境，你知道，需要采取攻击性行动的处境。这些处境也可能受到愤怒的影响，但愤怒...我从未在打架、枪战或任何情况下感到愤怒。我从不记得自己愤怒过，因为你被教导在那做决定时，愤怒并不是一种有帮助的情绪。所以我一直牢记这一点。我觉得这是我做到的一件事。

Like, they the the military, you get you get yourself into some really bizarre situations, you know, situations that require aggression. And, also, they can be impacted by anger, but anger like, I've never been in a in a fight, in a gunfight, whatever, and ever been angry. I never remember being angry because you're taught that that is not a very helpful emotion when you are there making decisions. So I've remembered that going forward. I think that's something that I did.

这就是我在那里学到的，也是我一直秉持的，它对我帮助很大。

That's what I learned there, and that's what I have taken forward, it's helped me a fair bit.

我觉得你说了一些非常有趣的事情，我想深入探讨一下。回到我上一个问题，我认为这是人们对于情绪的一个误解，你所说的其实是承认并接受这种情绪的存在。显然，我感到它是因为某某事情发生了。这是一个完全自然的反应。而人们常常把这种纪律性、坚忍，或者随便你怎么称呼它，男子气概，误解为压抑情绪。

I think you said some really interesting things that I wanna drill down on. And and kind of going back to my last question, I think that is a misconception people have as it pertains to the emotions that what you're saying there is you acknowledge and you accept that, yeah, this emotion's here. And obviously, I'm feeling it because x y zed has happened. It's a completely natural response. And I think people often take that or take this idea of of being disciplined, of being stoical, whatever you wanna call it, manly as suppressing it.

而你谈论的是承认它，真正地了解它，完整地感受它，但不基于它来做决定。对吗？

And what you're talking about is acknowledging it, actually knowing it, feeling all the way through, and but not making your decisions based on it. Right?

是的。是的。是的。100%正确。我不认为...我的意思是，你看看任何曾经愤怒并因愤怒而做出反应的人，他们通常都会给自己惹上麻烦。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I don't think there's I mean, you look at anyone that has been angry and responded to being angry, and they have either normally got themselves in trouble.

嗯。或者至少，你看起来不酷。是的，任何生气的人看起来都不酷，这就是我提醒自己的。你知道吗？

Mhmm. Or at the very minimum, you don't look cool. Yeah. Anyone that's angry doesn't look cool, and that's what I remind myself. You know?

就像有人在车里超我车，我快要失控了。是的，我就会想，等一下。你不会看起来很酷，而你是想看起来很酷的。

Just as someone's cut me up in the car and I'm about to lose my obvious. Yeah. I'm like, hang on a minute. You're not gonna look cool, and you wanna look cool.

这是一个很好的方式，有点像紧急刹车。是的，就像，我到底想有多酷？

That's a great that's a great way to sort of circuit break it there. Yeah. It's like, how how cool do I wanna?

是的。是的。

Yeah. Yeah.

我们都想看起来很酷，所以别生气。这很棒。是的，是的。我和我的伴侣有个做法，如果遇到路怒情况，我们不会生气，而是对那个人竖大拇指朝下。

We all wanna look cool, so don't get angry. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. Me and my partner have this thing where if someone there's a road rage situation, instead of getting angry, we thumbs down him.

因为这就像在说，我甚至都不生气。是的。这真是一种有趣的紧急刹车方式。我想我们之前讨论过这个，对吧？正如你所说，我们很容易做出反应，而反应往往是我们出错的地方。

Because it's just like, I'm not even mad. Yeah. That's such an interesting way to circuit break it. I think we were talking about it earlier, won't we? And as you say, it's so easy to react, and reactions are often where we we get it wrong.

对吧？而行动来自于深思熟虑，而不是‘我生气了，所以事情就这样了’。

Right? And action comes from a place of consideration and not, I'm angry, so this is happening.

是的，没错。我以前的工作中有句老话，大意是：不要匆忙奔向自己的死亡。意思是，在做决定之前，要深思熟虑下一步的行动，因为最终你可能正走向最后一步。我确实努力记住这一点。

Yeah. Exactly. Where the there there was a saying in my old job, and it was like, don't rush into your own death. And that means before you make a decision, think long and hard about what you're gonna do next because, ultimately, you could be running into your last move. And I do try and remember that.

有时候我太太肯定会觉得我在胡说八道。他那天

There'll be times my my missus will definitely be like, he's talking about rubbish. He got

生气了。

angry the other day.

是的。不过，是的，我会努力尝试。

Yeah. But, yeah, I do. I try.

他们说，检验一个人是否开悟的试金石就是去问他的妻子。是的，问他的妻子。不，完全正确。

They they say that that's the litmus test for an enlightened person is ask their wife. Yeah. Ask their wife. No. Exactly.

是的，是的，是的。你，正如我们所说，也正如你在这里所做的，你公开谈论心理健康问题，我认为这太棒了。你知道，整个对话的背景是，这不是关于压抑你的情绪，也不仅仅是在事情并不总是顺利时装作一切正常。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You you, obviously, as we said, and as you you have done here, you you talk openly about mental health issues, and I think it's fantastic. You know, the context of this whole conversation is it's not about suppressing your emotions, and it's not just about pretending that everything's alright when it's not always alright.

对于那些正在挣扎的男性，无论是年轻人还是年长者，他们难以寻求帮助，难以处理和谈论内心正在经历的事情，你有什么建议？

What advice do you have for for men, young men, older men who are struggling with that. They're struggling to reach out. They're struggling to process and talk about what they're what they're dealing with inside, internally.

我的意思是，这确实是个很难进行的对话。很难给出建议，因为归根结底，我们都是独立的个体。对发生的任何事情，我们的反应都会有所不同。

It's I mean, it is a difficult conversation to have. It's difficult to lend advice because, ultimately, we are all individuals. We respond differently to anything that happens.

是啊。

Yeah.

但我想说的是，当情绪涌上心头时——无论是积极的还是消极的——你无法选择它们。它们就是自然发生的。所以首先，这是一种自然反应。如果是负面情绪，你不应该为此感到羞愧。这只是你对发生在自己身上、周围环境、或是你认识的人身上或你目睹的某件事的自然回应。

But what I will say is your emotions, when they when they wash over you, whether they're positive or negative, you don't choose them. They just happen. So firstly, it's a natural reaction. So if it's a negative one, you shouldn't be ashamed of it. It's just your natural response to something that has happened either to you, around you, or to someone that you know or you've witnessed something.

所以要记住的第一点是，这完全正常。你不应该为此感到羞愧。第二点是，你不能压抑情绪。它总会在某个时候让你付出代价。可能不是当时，也可能永远不会找上你。

So the first thing is to remember is it's completely natural. You shouldn't be ashamed of it. And the second one is you cannot suppress emotion. It will it will do you in at some point. It might not do you in then, and it might not ever catch up with you.

但十有八九，如果你不承认它、不允许它有它的时刻、不给予它应得的尊重，它就会反咬你一口。我不久前就经历过这样一个阶段。我个人一直觉得自己很擅长处理这类事情。但不久前我经历了一些事，我太太那段时间也很难过。一开始，我总是不停地说‘好啦，别这样’。

But nine times out of 10, it's gonna if you don't acknowledge it and allow it to have its moment, respect give it the respect it deserves, it's gonna bite you in the backside. And I went through a phase not long ago. So I've been really I feel that I've been really good with this sort of thing personally. And I went through something not long ago, and my missus, you know, went through a period of being upset. And in the beginning, I used to keep saying, oh, come on.

我其实很不擅长应对难过的人。我会有点不知所措，然后就说‘哎呀，别难过了，振作点’。是的。

I'm very good for people that get upset. I'm not I'm like, oh my god. And I'm like, oh, come on. You know, don't don't be sad. Yeah.

她会有点生气，我就说‘我不是那个意思，你知道吧？’然后我就安静下来。后来我进行了一些自我反思，也看了一些电视节目——虽然不是讲这个的，但讲的是世界各地发生的事情。我看到那些处理悲痛的人，他们都在尽情释放情绪。

She was she would get a bit angry, and I'd be like, I didn't mean it to you know? Yeah. And I'd, like, be quiet. And then I sort of did a bit of self reflecting, and I've watched a few TV shows, not about this sort of thing, but it was about stuff going on around the world. And I was watching people that were dealing with grief, and they were, like, letting it all go.

我当时就想，等一下。你知道吗，我凭什么告诉别人他们不应该感到悲伤？我觉得这太不合适了。而且人们对自己也应该这样想。就是说，不要压抑情绪。

And I was like, hang on a minute. That you know, who am I to tell someone that they shouldn't be sad? I'm like, that's out of order. And that that's how people should think of it with themselves. It's like, don't tell you don't suppress the emotion.

如果你感到悲伤或愤怒，就去接纳它。承认它的存在，允许它在那里停留需要的时间，只要它不会通过行动或其他方式对你产生负面影响。因为归根结底，它的存在是有原因的。如果你试图压抑它，你就是在压抑自己的存在方式。所以我的意思是，当你感受到某种情绪时，你应该接纳它。

And if you feel sad or angry, embrace it. Like, give it acknowledge it and allow it to be there for as long as it needs to be there, as long as it's not having a negative impact on you, you know, through actions or whatever. Because ultimately, it's there for a reason. And if you try and suppress it, you're suppressing your own your own way of being. And so what I mean by that is when you feel a certain way, you should embrace it.

不要把它盖住。然后当你准备好了，可能应该去谈论它。尽管这听起来很困难，但谈论它是最好的方式，那是释放压力的途径。所以你已经承认了它，你已经接纳了它。

Don't put a lid on it. And then when you are ready, you should probably talk about it. As as as difficult as that sounds, to talk about it is the best way that's the pressure release. So you've acknowledged it. You've you've embraced it.

你感受这种情绪。不要据此行动。然后需要有一个时机，去和某人谈谈可能是个好主意。比如，人们可能会感到惊讶，但我仍然有一些朋友，他们要么还在特种部队，要么已经离开了。他们可能被 stereotypically 视为那些四处走动的阿尔法男性。

You feel the the emotion. Don't act on it. And then there needs to come a time where it's probably a good idea to go and talk to someone. Like, I people will find it might be surprised, but I've still got mates who are either still in the special forces or they've left. And they would be seen, I suppose, stereotypically as these alpha males that go around.

但我们不是。比如，如果我今天过得很糟，我会给他们中的一个人打电话，告诉他们我今天过得很糟，我会告诉他们我的感受，告诉他们事情不顺利，他们也会对我做同样的事。我们会互相支持。这是我学到的一点，它对我帮助极大。对我心理健康最有帮助的一件事其实就是谈论它。

We're not. Like, if I've had a bad day, I'll phone one of them up and tell them I've had a bad day, and I'll tell them how I feel, tell them that things have not gone right, and they'll do the same to me. And we'll, you know, we'll be there for each other. And that's something that I've learned, and it's helped me no end. The one thing that helped me with my mental health was actually just talking about it.

是的。我的意思是，这是个很长的回答。抱歉。

Yeah. I mean, that was a very long answer. Sorry.

不，不，不。我完全被吸引了。说得太棒了。

No. No. No. I'm off on a weird tune. Was brilliant.

我完全同意。这显然是人们普遍面临的难题。就像，呃，我实在不愿这么说，但当事情只存在于你脑海里时，它们往往是模糊不清的，对吧？就像拿着一个装满东西的垃圾袋，你根本不清楚里面具体有什么，直到你开始动手翻找、逐一拿出来。

I I couldn't agree more. And it's obviously something people struggle with. Like, the the and I I'm loathe to say this, but it you know, when things are in your head, they're nebulous, aren't they? It's like it's like having a bin bag full of stuff. You've not really got any idea what's in there, but it's not till you start pulling out and unpacking.

有时候，只需三四句话，你就会发现：哦，原来和我想的不一样。一旦表达出来，感觉就清晰了。似乎有90%的男性因为害怕被评判而不敢表达自己的感受。而另外90%的人——或者说剩下的89%——其实也在担心会被别人评判，但这种情况很少真正发生，对吧？

And sometimes three or four sentences and you're like, oh, that's actually not what I thought it was. Now I've articulated it. It sometimes feels as though there's you know, 90% of men are going around not saying how they're feeling for fear of being judged. And you're like 90% of people thinking that the other 90 the other 89% are gonna judge them, but seldom does that happen. Right?

是的。我认为我们现在所处的社会和文化阶段，在谈论心理健康、将其推向公众视野方面已经做得相当不错。在某个场合、公司、企业或行业里，我们可能已经减少了这种污名化。问题在于如何消除个人内心的自我污名化。没错。

Yeah. And I think so we're we're in a we're in a point now in our society, in our culture, whatever, where we've we've done quite a good job of talking about mental health and bringing it to the forefront of everyone's minds. And in a in a room, we've probably or in a in a corporation, in a business, in an industry, we've probably reduced the stigma. The issue is is how you get rid of the stigma in someone's own head. Yeah.

因为即使在这样的环境中，污名化减少了，可一旦有人开始产生负面情绪，他们自己就会制造出内心的污名。如何打破这个循环？这才是难点，因为这需要针对每个人量身定制方法或回应策略。所以，棘手的地方就在这里。

Because even though the the stigma is reduced in a in an arena like this, the minute someone starts feeling negative, they create their own stigma. And it's how do you break that down? And that's the that's the difficult bit because then it's all about you gotta tailor an approach or a response or whatever to that individual. So that's where the that's where the tricky bit is.

如果你喜欢这个内容，可以通过立即加入“男士健康小队”，在男士健康应用中无广告观看或收听。加入后，你将获得大量独家内容，包括定期会员问答、访谈，以及访问我们世界级的训练平台，该平台提供适合各个水平和任何目标的计划。只需访问hearsemagazines.co.uk/mh-mac或点击下方链接。你之前提到你参与了一款致力于此的应用程序，算是为人们创建资源。是的。

If you're enjoying this content, you can watch or listen ad free on the Men's Health app by joining the Men's Health Squad today. Once you're in the squad, you will have access to tons of exclusive content, including regular member Q and As, interviews and access to our world class training platform featuring plans for every level and for any goal. Simply head over to hearsemagazines.co.uk/mh-mac or hit the link below. You you mentioned to me earlier that you're you're involved in in an app towards towards this end, so kinda creating resources for for people. Yeah.

稍微跟我们聊聊这个吧。

Talk to us about that a little bit.

我参与的那款应用，更多是作为代言人。我协助Lou完成了初期部分，现在也还在参与。但真正的智囊是其他人。是的，我有个朋友叫Richard。

So the app that I'm involved in, there's like I'm more of mouthpiece. I'd helped Lou with the the initial bits, and I am still there. There are other people that are the they're the the real brains. Yeah. I've got a mate called Richard.

他绝对是一个不容小觑的强大存在。他开发了一款应用。上面有很多非常专业的内容创作者，包括临床心理学家、营养师等等。他们提供各种内容。目前这款应用在App Store或其他应用商店里叫做Mentor 360，还处于早期版本。

He's he's he's a absolute force to be reckoned with. But created an app. There's a lot of very intelligent content creators on there, clinical psychologists, nutritionists, so on and so forth. So they deliver content. Now the app as it stands on the App Store or whatever you use is called Mentor three sixty, and it's its old form.

它就像个二维应用。你可以进行一定程度的互动，它会就各种问题给你建议，从财务到饮食，再到人际关系问题。不过目前正在升级改造，我们正在整合人工智能技术。所以它将变成一个基于API的机器学习应用，将会提升到全新水平。它叫Mentor 360是有原因的。

It's like a two dimensional app. You can interact with it to a certain degree, and it will give you advice on lots of different things from finance to diet to, you know, to relationship issues. But it's going through a refurb at the moment, and we've got people in there that are now integrating AI. So it's gonna be, you know, an API machine learned, and it is gonna be on another level. It's called Mentor three sixty for a reason.

它的存在是为了指导你的人生。它会帮助你应对可能面临的各种问题，但最终目的是培养积极的习惯。

It's there to mentor you through life. It will help you with all sorts of issues that you might be facing, but but, ultimately, it's there to try and foster positive habits.

是的。对于不知道还能去哪里寻求帮助的人来说，这真是个很好的切入点。你知道吧？因为我们已经打破了很多障碍，Murray。

Yeah. Yeah. Such a such a a great touching point for people who maybe don't know where else to look for. You know? Because there's one we have broken down a lot of stick, Murray.

我们打破了很多障碍，但有些人，特别是男性，甚至不知道从哪里开始。比如，你会怎么做？你会谷歌搜索吗？我今天感觉糟透了。这时候该怎么办？所以有这样的工具，还有像你这样在世界上谈论这些话题的人，发挥着巨大的作用。

We have broken down a lot of barriers, but some, particularly guys, don't even know where to start start. Like, what do you what do you you know, do you Google? I I feel shit today. Like, what do you what do you do? So having these things and having people like yourself out there in the world talking about these things serves like a massive purpose.

我们之前聊过关于AI聊天机器人的想法。我知道很多人第一反应会是：这不是真人。但想象一下这能带来多大的便利性。我觉得很多人并不真正理解无法敞开心扉倾诉是什么感受。

And we were chatting earlier about this idea of having an AI chatbot that you could chat to. And I know I think so many people we were saying their knee jerk reaction's gonna be, it's not a person. It's not a a but imagine what an imagine just how accessible that then makes. I I think a lot of people don't really know what it's like to feel as though you can't open up and talk.

有趣的是，人们会这么说，但又有那么多人说：我不知道能信任谁。是啊。你可以信任——它不会告诉任何人。它只会和你对话，给你非常专业的回答，或者至少提供经过深思熟虑的建议，除了帮助你之外没有任何其他目的。是的。

The funny thing is is, like, people will say that, but then so many people will say, oh, I don't know who I can trust. Yeah. You can trust you can trust I ain't gonna talk to anyone. It's It's just gonna talk to you, and it's gonna give you a very, very learned answer or at least give you advice that is well thought out, and it's not got any other agenda other than helping you. Yeah.

值得思考的事情。

Something to think about.

是的。而且我经常谈到，有时候人们很难与身边亲近的人交谈，因为这可能会带来不稳定因素。你知道，可能有财务烦恼，或者有些事情你不想告诉妻子之类的。所以有一个不仅公正的第三方，而且还是按照最佳临床标准编程的。我觉得这很

Yeah. And I I I talk often about sometimes people in their immediate circle do struggle to talk to people because it's destabilizing potentially. You know, you've got money worries, whatever it is you maybe don't wanna tell your wife or whatever it may be. So to have a not only an impartial third person, but one that's kind of programmed with the, you know, the best clinical. Like, I think it's

而且不会说闲话。

And can't gossip.

它不会说闲话。是的。它不会试图对你进行煤气灯操控，说实际上我要问你一些刁难的问题。对吧？这些问题会让你尴尬，我觉得我自己到现在都会感到尴尬。

It can't gossip. Yeah. It's not it's not gonna try and sort of gaslight you and say, actually, I'm gonna fire questions for you. Right? These are these are the ones that are gonna are gonna embarrass you, and and we're gonna get we're gonna get some I reckon so embarrassed myself to date with.

再说一次，这个会在封面出来之后发布，所以大家都会看着你的照片说，哦，是啊。尴尬。是的。是的。

Again, this has come out. This will be coming out after the cover is out, so everyone will be looking at a picture of you going, oh, yeah. Embarrassed. Yeah. Yeah.

因为我已经看过那个设备了。如果你能和任何在世或已故的人一起健身，你会选谁？

Because I've seen I've seen the rig. If you could get in a gym session with anybody living or dead, who would it be?

我很想和阿尼一起健身。是的。不知道为什么。这很老派，对吧？我读过他的书之类的。

I'd love to have a gym sesh with Arnie. Yeah. I don't know why. It's old school, ain't it? I've read I've read his books and stuff.

我一直有关注他。我觉得他是个挺有魅力的人。我知道他有过优点也有缺点，但我还是喜欢他。

I've always watched him. I kinda find him a charismatic guy. I know he's had his his good and bad points, but still like him.

你的第一反应就是这个对吧？比如健身，是不是？对，没错。我是说确实。

It's where your mind goes straight away, isn't it? Like, workout, aren't it? Yeah. Exactly. I mean yeah.

是啊。而且他还在健身房里，跟其他怪人一起锻炼。我觉得这太不可思议了。经历了这么多事，他居然还在发通讯谈训练。没错。

Yeah. And he's still in the gym, like, pumping away weird other guys. I find that incredible. Everything he's done, and he's still, like, puts out a newsletter talking about training. Yeah.

他也很酷。我知道这个答案可能太明显了，但

He's also cool. I know that's probably a very obvious answer, but

是啊。老套之所以成为老套是有原因的。对。

yeah. Yeah. Well, cliches are cliches for a reason. Yeah. Yeah.

嗯。拍摄《Who Des Went》时你遇到最搞笑的事是什么？

Yeah. What's the funniest thing that's happened whilst filming Who Des Went for you?

老兄，可太多了。最经典的还是第一季的时候，当时明显缺乏健康安全措施。其实也没过去多久，但世界已经大变样了。我们在季末让各队自行进行逃脱与躲避训练，结果伙计，我们把人搞丢了。有个队伍失踪了整整二十四小时。

Mate, there's loads. The best one really was on the first one when there was a there was a distinct there's there was so many things that happened on the first one, but there was one where there was a distinct lack of health and safety back then. It was only not it wasn't even that long ago, but it's like the world's changed considerably. But we set the teams off towards the end of the the the season, the series, on their own escape and evasion, but we mate, we lost them. We lost one of the teams for twenty four hours.

我们，就像，真的在树林里。现在可以出来了。是的。我们不相信那个。我们就像，然后制作组也说，我们觉得这会是最后一次了。

We're, like, literally out in the woods. Can come out now. Yeah. We don't believe that. We're like and the the production were like, we this is this will be it.

这将是终结。这会是这个节目的第一次也是最后一次。其中一个人差点从悬崖边上掉下去。是的。嗯，第一季确实有一些教训，我们显然从中吸取了经验，然后我们继续前进了。

This will be the end. It will be the first and last of this show. One of them nearly walked off the edge of a cliff. Yeah. Well, there were some learning points on the on the first season, which we obviously learned from, and we we moved on.

但那确实是的。对我来说很有趣，但对很多人来说，那是非常紧张的。

But that was yeah. For me, it was funny, but for a lot of people, it was very stressful.

事后想想是挺有趣的。

Funny after the fact.

是的。是的。完全正确。是的。但那只是我能很快说出来的其中一件趣事。

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But that's that was one of the funny things that I can say very quickly.

还有，就像，很多其他的。

There's, like, so many others.

是的。我我想我一定是把你推马特·汉考克下水的那段《真实镜头》反复看了一遍又一遍。

Yeah. I I think I must have watched The Real of you pushing Matt Hancock in the drink just on repeat again and again and again.

那可能就在上面。我不知道我是否被允许去那里。但我们就像是在开拍前24小时才知道的。所以我们已经在国内待了两三周，他才加入，我们当时就

That's probably up there. I didn't know whether I was allowed to go there. But we're like we found out only twenty four hours before we started shooting. So we were already in country for, like, two, three weeks that he was coming on, and we're like

哦，你不知道，你之前不知道

Oh, you don't know you you didn't know

这件事吗？挺好的。他们对我们保密。这不是我们的事。所以，显然，他们告诉我们时，我们都很惊讶，哇。

that before? It's nice. They keep it a secret from us. It's not our it's not our business. So, obviously, we were like they told us, and we were like, wow.

这太棒了。我们可以，你知道，可以调侃他一下。但随后我们想，等等，这样对吗？你知道，我们在给他，你知道，当时我们就知道我们会因此挨批，而事实也确实如此。

This is awesome. We get to you know, we can have a pop at him. But then we were like, hang on. Is this right? You know, we're giving him you know, there was and we knew that that would that we would get, you know, we would get stick for it, and we did.

你知道吗？尽管这不是我们的决定，但我们知道我们会成为众矢之的。不过，是的，当机会出现时，我们欣然接受了。

You know? Even though it's not our decision, we knew that we were gonna get the flak. But, yeah, when when the opportunity arose, we we we embraced it.

你遇到过的最艰难的身体挑战是什么

What's the toughest physical challenge you've ever

？身体上的？总的来说，应该是划船横渡大西洋，我认为，只是因为它在很长一段时间里都 relentless（ relentlessly 持续不断）。那是一段很长的路。真的很长。

faced? Physical? All up, it will be rowing the Atlantic, I think, just because it was relentless for a long time. It's a long way. It's a long way.

路途遥远，而且大自然在很多方面都没有眷顾我们。

It's a long way, and mother nature wasn't on our side for a lot of it.

最艰难的心理挑战是什么？

What's the toughest mental challenge?

克服心理健康问题，这是我必须应对的最大挑战。也是我最引以为豪的经历。说实话，这是我处理过的最值得骄傲的事。

Overcoming mental health without that's the biggest thing I've had to deal with. It's the proudest thing I've had to deal with Yeah. That I've dealt with, to be honest.

福克斯，你会给16岁的自己什么建议？是你自己，不是你哥哥或你爸爸。对，是你。

What advice would you give to a 16 year old, Foxy? But you, not not your not your brother or your dad. Yeah. Yeah.

确实有几条。如果我能在我16岁开始人生之前，哪怕只见到自己30秒，我会说：伙计，你会度过很棒的时光。会有艰难的时刻，也会有美好的时刻。我唯一想说的是，如果你感到低落、沮丧、对事物消极，就去和别人聊聊。

There's a few of Yeah. So if I could at least see myself for thirty seconds before I embarked on my life at 16, I'd be like, mate, you're gonna have a great time. It's gonna be some tough times. It's gonna be some great times. The only thing I'd say is, like, if you feel, you know, if you feel low, down, negative about things, just go and talk to someone.

我当时没有得到这个建议，也没有这样做。如果我当时这么做了，我可能很早就能把心理健康问题扼杀在萌芽状态。我确实后来很快解决了它，但或许我的职业生涯本可以持续得更久一些，这一直让我有点难以释怀。

I didn't I didn't I didn't have that advice, and I didn't do it. If I'd have done it, I'd have probably nipped my bout of bad mental health in the bud really early. I definitely nipped it in the bud early, and I might have ended up having my career last a little bit longer, which has always been a bit of bit of pill for me to swallow.

如果你余生只能做一个动作

If you could only perform one movement for the rest of your life,

会是什么？波比跳。

what would it be? Burpee.

是的。没错。我绝对是波比跳的忠实拥护者。人们总爱吐槽它，但我觉得，怎么了？

Yes. Yeah. I'm I'm strictly team burpee. People like to rag on it, but I'm like, what?

老兄，这动作太可怕了，但正因为如此。

Man, it's horrible, but that's that's why.

这才是重点。对。完全正确。从地板上站起来，这完全是功能性训练。

That's the point. Yeah. Exactly. It's getting up off the floor. It's totally functional.

我想永远都能这样做。

I wanna keep doing that forever.

是的。完全正确。

Yeah. Exactly.

不知道你怎么想。你接下来有什么安排？你下一步打算做什么？

Don't know about you. What have you got going on next? What's next for you?

我即将出版一本书，是我的第三本书，名为《拥抱混乱》。这本书主要探讨生活以及我处理某些事情的小窍门。我基本上把生活分解成一副牌的样子，所以有四个花色。

I've got a book coming out. My third book called Embrace the Chaos. It's all about life and my little hacks on how to deal with certain things. So I basically broke down life into, like, a deck of cards. So there's four suits.

分别是混乱、恢复、使命和平静。使命就像是当你去做计划中的事情，比如搬家、去探险之类的。混乱则是意料之外的事情，比如创伤、车祸等。恢复是计划中的休养期，比如你决定要休息一段时间，去度假。

There's chaos, recovery, mission, and calm. And it's basically so you'll like, mission is, like, when you go and do things that are planned, move house, go on an expedition, that sort of thing. Chaos is the unexpected, trauma, car crash, that sort of thing. Recovery is planned bouts of, you know, re re recuperating, you know, when you're like, oh, we're gonna have that time off. We're gonna go, you know, holiday.

你在那些时期做了什么？而平静则是处理无聊的时候，当你没什么事做，也不是计划中的空闲。你怎么应对那种情况？

What did you do in those periods? And calm is this sort of dealing with boredom when you've got nothing on, not planned having nothing on. How do you deal with that?

不错。书名再说一遍叫什么？

Nice. What's book called again?

《拥抱混乱》。

Embrace the chaos.

听起来像是一个

That sounds like a

这会是个很好的理由。

it be a great reason.

我们有过

We had

关于标题的一场激烈争论。不过，总之

a real bun fight over the title. But, anyway

有哪些备选标题？哇。

What was in the running? Wow.

我，我有一段时间想把它命名为《记住你会死》。

I I, for a period of time, wanted to call it remember you will die.

哦，有点精神层面的。但它是

Oh, a bit of a mental But it's

有点太...是的。没错。是的。是的。但显然，它有点太

a little bit too yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But it's apparently, it's a little bit too

太直白了。是的。正如我所想，有点太过了。如果你没get到那个梗，真的会一头雾水。是的。

Bit on the nose. Yeah. It's a bit too as I thought. If you don't get the reference It's really like what? Yeah.

是的。你确定吗？

Yeah. You sure?

那个片段。是的。是的。很棒。是的。

The clip. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Yeah.

不，不完全是圣诞节的畅销书。

Not not exactly a a Christmas best selling title.

是的。所以最终，我们想出了可能更好的方案，说实话。

Yeah. And so ultimately, we came up with something that was way more probably better, to be fair.

话虽如此，记住你会死是相当好的建议。

That being said, remember you will die is pretty good advice.

很棒，不是吗？

It is great, ain't it?

非常好的建议。没有什么东西是永恒的。不是你。不是任何人。一切都是无常的。

Very good advice. Nothing's nothing's here forever. Not you. Not anyone. It's all impermanent.

时光的旧沙不会停止，

The the old sands of time don't stop,

对吧？它们确实不会。我知道。我们都深有体会。老兄，这真是太不可思议了。

do they? They do not. I know. We're all all there. Dude, this has been absolutely incredible.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

干杯，伙计。真不错。感谢今天的相聚。

Cheers, mate. Nice one. Thanks for today.