布里奇特·埃弗雷特说，最好的朋友可以是你最伟大的爱（重播）

这是你需要解读的头条新闻。

It's your headline to unpack.

这是你每周都要跟进的一个故事。

It's your one story to follow week by week.

这是你要破解的Wordle谜题。这是你要追踪的团队。这是你要探索的36小时。

It's your Wordle to work through. It's your team to track. It's your thirty six hours to explore.

这是你要掌握的腌料配方。

It's your marinade to master.

这是你要理清的观点。

It's your opinion to figure out.

这是你要升级的床垫。

It's your mattress to upgrade.

这是你了解还需要为圣母大学做些什么的日子。《纽约时报》。这是你要理解的世界。更多信息请访问nytimes.com/yourworld。

It's your day to know what else you need to Notre Dame. The New York Times. It's your world to understand. Find out more at nytimes.com/yourworld.

大家好，我是安娜。去年秋天，布里奇特·埃弗里特曾来我们工作室谈论她在《某处某人》中的主演角色。如果你错过了，《某处某人》是一部HBO剧集，背景设定在埃弗里特现实生活中的家乡——堪萨斯州的曼哈顿市。而这部剧的核心，

Hey, everyone. It's Anna. Last fall, Bridget Everett was in our studio to talk about her starring role in somebody somewhere. In case you missed it, Somebody Somewhere is an HBO series set in Everett's real life hometown of Manhattan, Kansas. And at the center of the show, there

是

is

这段充满爱意、温暖、爆笑，我认为极具理想色彩的柏拉图式友谊。当我和埃弗里特交谈时，《某处某人》正在收尾第三季也是最终季。但现在她因与联合编剧汉娜·博斯和保罗·索伦共同创作该剧而获得艾美奖提名。此外，剧中饰演她最好朋友的杰夫·希勒也获得了最佳男配角提名。既然埃弗里特因颁奖季重回聚光灯下，我想再次分享这段对话会很有趣。

this loving, warm, hilarious, I think deeply aspirational platonic friendship. Somebody Somewhere was wrapping up its third and final season when Everett and I talked. But now she's nominated for an Emmy for her work writing the show alongside co writers Hannah Boss and Paul Thoreen. Plus the guy who plays her best friend on the show, Jeff Hiller, is nominated for outstanding supporting actor. Now that Everett's back in the spotlight for awards season, I thought it'd be fun to share this conversation with you one more time.

希望你和我一样享受其中。此刻相爱

I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Love now

直到永远。昨夜坠入爱河，亲爱的。爱比任何事物都强大。为了爱。而我爱你胜过一切。

and forever. Fall in love last night, love. Love was stronger than anything. For the love Love. And I love you more than anything.

爱。生命依然存在。爱。

Love. There's still life. Love.

这里是《纽约时报》，我是安娜·马丁。这是现代爱情故事。在HBO剧集《某人某地》中，布里奇特·埃弗里特饰演一位40岁的女性萨姆。萨姆一直热爱歌唱，但随着时间的推移，她失去了自信，放弃了音乐。

From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is modern love. In the HBO series, somebody somewhere, Bridget Everett plays a 40 woman named Sam. Sam has always loved to sing. But over time, she's lost her self confidence and given up on music.

当萨姆与一位温柔体贴的男子乔尔（杰夫·希勒饰）成为挚友后，她开始重建自我。他甚至让她重新开口歌唱。

After Sam becomes best friends with a sweet, supportive man named Joel, played by Jeff Hiller, she starts to build herself back up. He even gets her to sing again.

全世界我最喜爱的歌手之一今晚来到了我们现场。萨姆·派尔，快上来吧。不。在这片骄傲的土地上，我们茁壮成长。我们始终被需要。

One of my favorite singers in the entire world is here with us tonight. Sam Pyre, come on up here. No. In this proud land, we grew up strong. We were wanted all along.

两人变得如此亲密，甚至在吃完可疑的开胃菜'圣路易斯寿司'后，还会在如厕时互相打电话。

The two of them become so close, they even call each other from the toilet after eating a questionable hors d'oeuvre called Saint Louis sushi.

如果你敢把刚才我屁股发生的事告诉任何人，我就去找你。噢，别这样乔尔。这亲密程度又升级了。我知道。

If you ever tell anybody what just happened to my asshole, I will come over. Oh, no, Joel. This is a new level of intimacy. I know.

观看《某人某地》就是爱上这对朋友，并希望没有任何事物能阻碍他们之间的情谊。我想和布里奇特聊聊，如果我们愿意在生活中为挚友留出空间，这种友谊能有多重要。布里奇特将朗读一篇关于两位朋友的散文，他们的羁绊如此之深，或许我们需要创造新词来定义它。布里奇特·埃弗里特，欢迎来到《现代爱情》。嗨。

To watch Somebody Somewhere is to fall in love with these two friends and to hope that nothing gets in the way of what they share together. So I wanted to talk to Bridget about how central a best friendship can be if we're willing to make the space for it in our lives. And Bridget reads an essay about two friends with a bond so close, maybe we need a new word to define it. Bridget Everett, welcome to Modern Love. Hi.

非常高兴你能来录音室。你主演的《某人某地》目前正在播出第三季也是最终季。我超爱这部剧，但有件事让我很困惑，希望你能解答。我发现很难用传统类型来界定这部剧的体裁。

I'm so happy you're in the studio with us. So the show you star on, somebody somewhere, is currently on its third and final season. I love this show, but I'm really struggling with something. I hope you'll help me out. I find it tough to categorize the show in terms of genre.

我想说这是一部浪漫喜剧，但它又有点像群像生活片段。有时候它又像音乐剧。你会怎么形容这部剧？

I'm like, I wanna call it a romantic comedy, but it's also sort of like an ensemble slice of life. At times, it's a musical. How would you describe the show?

其实我也很难描述它，也许这就是为什么我们会有如此贴心的观众。不知道，我觉得可以称为剧情喜剧，但更像是生活切片。嗯。有些温情时刻，也有些...比如放屁的桥段。

Well, I have a terrible time describing it too, so maybe that's why we have such an intimate, audience. I don't know. I think of it as, you know, people say dramedy, but kind of just a slice of life. Mhmm. Some tender moments, some, you know, and maybe a fart.

我刚想说些温情时刻，然后第二季就来了个大型腹泻场景。

I was gonna say some tender moments and then, like, a big diarrhea scene in season two.

对啊。因为这就是真实生活。

Yeah. Because that's real life.

当然了，这就是真实生活。

Of course, it's real life.

也许对你来说不是，但你知道，我认识的人就是这样。

Maybe not for you, but for, you know, people I know.

圣路易斯寿司。

Saint Louis sushi.

那是

Is that

真实存在的东西吗？

a real thing?

没错。我朋友拉里·克罗恩，这是他在派对上的招牌菜。他总是端着那个小餐盘到处转悠，其实就是火腿裹着奶油奶酪再包着腌黄瓜。懂了吧。而且你知道吗？

Yeah. My friend, Larry Cron, it's one of his signature, dishes at parties. You know, he always passes around his little canopy or whatever, but it's it's it's basically ham wrapped around cream cheese wrapped around a pickle. Got it. And, you know what?

它总是很受欢迎。

It's it's always a hit.

不。关键是听起来太棒了。

No. It sounds so good is the thing.

是啊。但在节目里，我们得想办法让它有趣些。

Yeah. But, you know, on the show, we had to kind of, you know, make it fun.

你们得让它有趣。你的意思是，得加很多放屁的桥段。好吧。你在《某处某人》里饰演的角色叫山姆。嗯。这个角色某种程度上取材于你的真实生活。

You had to make it fun. By that, you mean, you had to fill it with a lot of farts. Okay. Your character on Somebody Somewhere is a woman named Sam Mhmm. Who is somewhat inspired by your own life.

和你一样，山姆在堪萨斯州的曼哈顿长大，剧集的故事就发生在那儿。山姆热爱唱歌，但对唱歌充满恐惧和自我怀疑。而你，布里奇特，有首卡巴莱歌曲自豪地描述了乳房的各种形状和尺寸。我超爱那首歌。你在舞台上看起来毫无畏惧。

Like you, Sam grew up in Manhattan, Kansas, where the show takes place. Sam loves singing, but she has a lot of fear and self doubt around it. Whereas you, Bridget, have a a cabaret song where you proudly describe all the shapes and sizes boobs come in. I love that song. You just seem fearless on stage.

你生活中是否曾有过山姆那样的自我怀疑？

Have you ever had any of Sam's self doubt in your own life?

当然。我和山姆有很多共同点，比如对唱歌的热爱。嗯。山姆唱歌时整个人都焕发光彩，我也有同感。我觉得通过唱歌能建立连接。

Sure. I mean, a lot of a lot of what I have in common with Sam is, you know, obviously, the love of singing. And Mhmm. You know, Sam really comes alive when she sings, and I feel the same way. I feel like I connect.

唱歌时我仿佛接通了生命的电源。通过唱歌我能触及平时难以表达的情感。对吧。而且我也像她一样挣扎于自我价值认同。嗯。

I kinda plug into life when I'm singing. There's a way that I can connect to my emotions when I'm doing that that I can't sometimes do otherwise. Right. And I also struggle with the self worth like she does. Mhmm.

所以这三季以来，当她逐渐承认自己正在克服的问题时——她不会直接说‘我是山姆，我有自我怀疑’——我们看着她努力突破这些障碍，我从她身上学到了很多。有时候写戏时我会想，真希望自己能像山姆那样。

So over the course of these three seasons, as she is acknowledged kind of to herself what she's working through, mean, she doesn't say, oh, I'm Sam, and I have self doubt. Know, we sort of see her trying to push through some of that, and and I've learned a lot from her. Like, sometimes we write the scenes, and I'm like, man, I wish I could be like Sam.

你有没有真正应用过——我知道这是半自传性质的作品，但毕竟是虚构剧集——你说从山姆身上学到了东西。有没有具体把剧中她领悟的道理用在生活里？比如做某件事时突然想到‘哇’？

Have you ever have you ever applied I mean, I know it's, like, loosely autobiographical, but, of course, this show is a work of fiction. But you're saying that you've learned things from Sam. Yeah. Have you ever found yourself quite literally applying, like, a lesson that she's learned in the show to your own life? Like, do you ever do something in your life and think, wow.

这是我从《某人某处》中我的角色山姆那里学来的。

I I learned this from Sam, my character in somebody somewhere.

完全正确。第二季里山姆说过一句话，她就像在说，n n n p，不结交新朋友。

Absolutely. There there's something that Sam says in season two. She's like, n n n p, no new people.

是的。

Yes.

这有点像我的状态。我有很多朋友，生活已经很充实了。而且我和很多人一样有社交焦虑，所以干脆就选择不接触新人。

And that's kinda like me. Like, I I have a lot of friends. My life is full enough. And I just I'm socially anxious, you know, like many people are. So I just like, I'd just rather not.

但山姆在第三季里开始允许更多人走进她的生活和内心。说实话，我自己也一直在努力做到这一点。

But Sam, in especially in season three, is allowing more people into her life and into her heart. And I think that I have honestly been trying to work on that myself.

有意思。所以你的意思是第二季里山姆奉行这种生活信条——不结识新朋友，但到了第三季我们又看到她重新敞开心扉？

Interesting. Okay. So what you're saying is in season two, Sam kind of adopts this, yeah, life ethos, I don't know, mantra, no new people meeting no new friends. But then in season three, we see her sort of open Yeah. Back up again.

你是说你现在生活中也在尝试这样做吗？

And you're saying that you're trying to do the same thing in your life right now?

因为对我和山姆这样的人来说，如果你总在自我价值感上挣扎，每次遇到新朋友就会想：他们一定会发现我的缺陷。或者他们会看到我讨厌自己的那些部分。

Because I think for me and for Sam, it's like, you know, if you're somebody that does struggle with self worth, every time you meet somebody, you're like, they're gonna see the cracks. Yeah. Totally. Or that they'll just see what I don't like about myself. Of course.

我觉得山姆就是这么想的，所以她觉得：有这个人让我感觉良好，那个人让我感到安全。

You know? And I think Sam feels that way. So she's like, I've got this person that makes me feel good. This person makes me feel safe. Mhmm.

这就是为什么第一季她姐姐去世时如此崩溃——因为姐姐爱她的全部。乔尔也是无条件爱着她。不是每个人走进房间时都确信别人会喜欢自己。

And that was why it was so devastating in season one while why her sister died because her sister loved her warts and all. Right. You know? And and Joel, he loves her warts and all. And, you know, I I think it's just something that not everybody walks into a room and and thinks people are gonna like them.

是啊。是啊。是啊。可能大多数人不会吧。我真的不知道。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe most people don't. I really don't know.

我我觉得大多数人都不会。我肯定不会。但你说得太对了。在《某人某处》第三季，也就是当前这季里，我们看到那种保护壳开始以最美好的方式出现裂痕。

I I don't think most people do. I certainly don't. But you're so right. In season three, this this current season of somebody somewhere, we see that that sort of protective shield start to crack in the best way.

没错。她害怕极了，但还是这么做了，这季的主题就是逆势成长，我认为这...

Yeah. And she's terrified, but it's but she does it anyway, which is the theme of this season is growth against all odds, and I think that that is

我太喜欢这个主题了。这是你们在编剧室里定的吗，比如'逆势成长'这个说法？

I love that. Is that something you said in, like, the writer's room, growth against all odds?

是的，而且我现在有这条项链了。虽然现在没戴着。别这样。你该戴着的。等等。

It is, and I and I do have the necklace now. And I'm not wearing it right now. Stop. You should have worn it. Wait.

是项链

Is it necklace

上面刻着'逆势成长'吗？

that says growth against it?

那得在项链上刻好多字。不是的。是'G A A O'。我现在戴着一条项链。还有金马桶项链，显然是第二季的纪念。

That's lot put on the necklace. No. It's g a a o. I have on one necklace. I also have a golden toilet, which is obviously from season two.

然后第一季的是一条'A 1'项链，因为我在通告单上排第一。我当时想，这可能再也不会发生了，所以给自己买了条项链。

And then from season one, I have a a one because I'm number one on the call sheet. And I was like, this may never happen again, so I'm buying myself a necklace.

你没把三条都戴上，我太难过了。

I am so sad that you didn't wear all three.

我知道。我平时都会做的，但今天就是不知道为什么没做。我周一早上开始得有点早，你懂的。

I know. I normally do, but, I just I don't know. I I don't know why I didn't do it today. I was you know, I got Monday started kinda early. You got a

你最近事情很多啊。不过我要说我超爱这些缩略语。突然发现有个新词NNP（新人）。

lot of things going on. I also wanna say I love it. There's lot of acronyms. I'm realizing no new people, NNP.

还有AGG（一切荣耀归于上帝），这个说法经常一带而过。但我平时就爱这么说话，这是我的习惯。

There's AGG. There's all glory to god, which is something that kinda goes by pretty quick. But but I I talk that way. That that's that's kinda my

你是个缩略语达人？

You're an acronym gal?

对啊。DDHD是我的座右铭（梦想没有截止日期），这是从LL Cool J那儿学来的。

Yeah. DDHD is my theme. You know, I got that from LL Cool J. Dreams don't have deadlines. This is such

发现你这个特点真有意思。

a fun thing to figure out about you.

我和Murray Hill每天互发RFB（准备睡觉）。

Murray Hill and I text each other every day, r f b, ready for bed.

Murray Hill在剧里也饰演Fred。我超爱这个RFB（准备睡觉），太可爱了。

Murray Hill also stars on the show as as Fred. I love ready for bed. Yeah. R f b. Yeah.

你之前聊过Sam和她好友Joel（Jeff Hiller饰）的关系。对于没看过《某人某地》的观众，该怎么描述这两人？他们不只是朋友，关系更复杂。

You've talked a bit about the relationship between Sam and her best friend Joel played by Jeff Hiller. For people who have not had the pleasure of seeing somebody somewhere, how would you explain who Sam and Joel are to each other? It's a friendship, but there's there's so much more there.

是的。Sam失去了姐姐，那是她的一切。而Joel就这样悄然进入她的生活，他让人无法抗拒——充满魅力和感染力。

Yeah. I I think, you know, Sam has lost her sister and and, you know, it was everything to her. And then Joel kinda sneaks in, and he's so undeniable. He's so charismatic and charming. He's got

一个微笑就能点亮每个人的心情。

a smile just lights smile everyone up.

他确实能点亮他人。他有着爽朗的笑声，心地善良，而她则带点锋芒，你知道的，更犀利一些。但最重要的是，他们之间有种非常美好的温暖化学反应。是的，即便她有时显得反应过度或保守，他依然爱着她。

He lights yeah. And he's got a great giggle, and and he's kind, and she's kinda, like, a little, like you know, got a little more of an edge. But, most importantly, there's a really wonderful warm chemistry between the two of them. Yeah. And and even when she kind of gets reactive or reactionary, he still loves her.

他不会抛弃她，尽管她总以为他会这么做。她就像裸露的神经般敏感。而乔尔照顾她的方式让我非常感动。这段关系让我喜爱之处在于，有时你无法预料会在四十多岁时遇见生命中如此核心的关系，我觉得这很不可思议。

He's not gonna dump her, which she thinks that he's gonna do. So and and she's so you know, she's such a raw nerve. And and I don't know. Just the way that Joel takes care of her is very moving to me. And I what I love about the relationship is, you know, sometimes you don't expect that you're gonna meet such a central relationship to your life in your forties, and I think that's incredible.

这违背了'不结交新朋友'的原则，但我就是爱这种关系。我也喜欢这对萨姆来说是真正重要的事——她的朋友们就是她的家人。她寻找的并非浪漫爱情。

It goes against the NNP, no new people, but I just I just love it. And I also love that it's it's a real primary thing for Sam. Like, her friends are her people. Right. And it's not like she's looking for a romantic love.

嗯。她寻找的是她的灵魂伴侣。而她正在乔尔身上找到这种联结。

She's Mhmm. She's looking for her person. And and that's kind of what she is finding in Joel.

是啊。她这个人，我是说，我觉得这真的是一种——我不知道该不该用这个词——近乎颠覆性的重构，那种认为你的‘那个人’可以是一个

Yeah. Her person, I mean, I think it's a really I don't know if I I'll say, like, kind of radical reframe, the idea that your person can be a

朋友。完全正确。这并不意味着你不能拥有浪漫关系，不能偶尔在干草堆里滚几圈，或者在酒吧喝了几杯后在小巷里卿卿我我。但对我来说，最重要的是这部剧要聚焦于友谊，而不是那种‘女孩遇见男孩’的传统浪漫套路——你知道的，遇到一个男人，他突然觉得你很美，然后你们就坠入爱河。这是一种不同的爱，正因如此，我特别喜欢我们稍后要讨论的那篇文章。

a friend. Absolutely. And it doesn't mean you can't have, you know, romantic relationships, and you can't, you know, have a couple of rolls in the hay and a little, you know, a little smooshy smoosh in the alley after a couple drinks at a bar. But but I think that for me, it was really important that this show be about the friendship and not about, like, girl meets boy, boy in in the way that a rom you know, you meet a guy and, you know, all of a sudden, he thinks you're beautiful, you fall in love in that way. It's this is a different kind of love, which is, you know, why, you know, I love the essay that we're gonna be talking about later.

不过确实。

But yeah.

没错。我们稍后就会进入文章朗读环节。但在那之前，我想谈谈剧中我认为最能体现你所说的这种朋友之爱的时刻。在新一季开头，山姆帮助乔尔的男友布拉德秘密创作了一首情歌作为惊喜。首先，山姆这个举动本身就足够暖心，但更意味深长的是——我们曾亲眼目睹她因乔尔恋爱后陪伴减少而挣扎的痛苦。

Yeah. And we're gonna go to the essay reading in just a bit. But before we do, I wanna talk about a moment on the show that I think is the epitome of this kind of love between friends that you're talking about. Early in this new season, Sam helps Joel's boyfriend, whose name is Brad, write a love song as a as a secret surprise for Joel. And first of all, that's already a nice enough gesture from Sam, but it means even more because we've seen her really struggle with the fact that Joel is now in a couple and and isn't around for her as much.

能告诉我们当他们在派对上，布拉德起身为乔尔演唱这首情歌时发生了什么吗？

Can you tell us what happens when they're all at the party and Brad gets up to sing this love song for Joel?

是的。由才华横溢却未被充分利用的蒂姆·巴格利饰演的布拉德这个角色，他是乔尔的男朋友。对。嗯。扮演乔尔男友的他站起来唱这首歌，他深爱乔尔，但一直未能或者说没有机会公开表达这份感情。

Yeah. The character of Brad played by the wonderful and underutilized Tim Bagley That's Joel's boyfriend. Yeah. Mhmm. The plays Joel's boyfriend gets up to sing this song, and he loves Joel, but he hasn't really been able to hurt or had the need to say that publicly.

他当着乔尔的朋友和教会朋友的面这样做。一开始试图开口时，他就完全被情绪淹没了。这让我想起一个非常中西部特色的场景——当然其他地方也可能有。就像我哥哥在他女儿婚礼上致辞时那样，他刚说'我就想...'然后就哽住了，就像那种...你知道的，就像你吞下一大块东西时噎住的感觉。

And he's doing it in front of Joel's friends and his church friends. And as soon as he starts to try to speak, he's so overwhelmed. And it reminds me of a very it's a very Midwestern thing and probably other places too. But when my brother did the toast at his daughter's wedding, he was like, okay, I just wanna And he, like it's just like you you know that thing, like and he couldn't talk. It was just like, you know, when you eat that huge

情绪哽在喉咙里了。

The emotion is caught in the throat.

没错，就是那种情绪决堤的感觉。

Yeah. That's exactly the thing when it's too much.

是啊。

Yeah.

我最感动的是山姆就站在他身边，仿佛在说'我会帮你完成这个仪式'，因为她知道这对乔尔意味着什么。

And and what I love about it is, like, that Sam is right there with him, and she's like, I'm gonna help you get through this because she knows what it's gonna mean to Joel.

她接过了话头，开始替他唱起来。

And she jumps in, and she starts singing for him.

是的。她清楚乔尔有多特别。所以只要有机会——尤其是通过音乐——来表达和分享这份特别，她都会这么做。

Yeah. She knows how special Joel is. And so anytime that she can communicate that, share that, especially through music, she's gonna do it.

布里奇特，如果你愿意的话，能听你唱一句就太棒了，不过我不知道你今天是否准备要唱歌。

Bridget, would you mind if you want, it would be amazing to hear, like, a line, but I don't know if you're prepared to sing today.

你喜欢这首歌的开头部分吗？

Do you like the beginning of the song?

我非常愿意。

I would love to.

好的，当然。清晨醒来见到你的脸，我是全人类最幸运的家伙。一杯咖啡或是去趟商店。

Okay. Sure. I wake in the morning and I see your face. I'm the luckiest guy in the entire human race. A cup of coffee or a trip to the store.

我会用尽永恒，然后再索取更多。但你凝视我的方式，我无法言喻，但我知道这就是爱。哦，爱啊。爱。这是第一段。

I'll take forever, and then I'll take some more. But, oh, the way you look at me, I can't explain it, but I know it's love. Oh, love. Love. That's the first one.

天啊，现在别这样对我。我不知道

Oh my gosh. Don't do this to me right now. I don't know what

这太棒了。这些歌词是你写的。

it is so god. And you wrote these lyrics.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

如此简单又完美。当然，表面上看这是首情歌，你知道的，一个男人对另一个男人，两个相爱的人之间的歌。但我也说不上来。就像，我真的感受到

It is so simple, and it's perfect. Of course, this is a love song ostensibly for, you know, one man to another man, you know, between two men who love each other. But also, I don't know. Like, I I really feel

山姆对乔尔的爱。

Sam's love for Joel.

没错。还有她看他的眼神。绝对是的。

Yeah. And the way that she's looking at him. Absolutely.

对。我百分之百同意。

Yeah. Abs I 100% agree.

非常感谢你演唱这首歌。能在Vroom听到你表演，我真心感到无比荣幸。我是认真的。好吧，这确实是个难以超越的精彩开场。

Thank you so much for singing that. I really feel grateful to be in Vroom when you did that. I'm serious. Okay. That is that's a tough act to follow.

你这次来还要帮我们另一个忙，就是朗读一篇现代爱情散文。在开始之前，你想说说为什么选择这篇文章吗？

You are also here to do us another favor, which is to read a modern love essay. Do you wanna say anything about this essay before you get into it? Why you chose it?

呃，我选它是因为...你看这个标题《当你最伟大的浪漫是段友谊时》。这让我很有共鸣。读完觉得它如此甜蜜动人，描绘了两个非恋人之间的关系。

Well, I I I chose it because, you know, the title, when your greatest romance is a friendship Yeah. Because it's something that I can relate to. And and I read it. I thought it was such a sweet and moving examination of two people not romantically linked. I don't know.

我就是觉得它非常特别。

I just thought it was really special.

稍后我们将请布里奇特·埃弗里特为大家朗读今天的现代爱情散文，请别走开。好的布里奇特，接下来你要为我们朗读小说家维克多·洛达托的现代爱情散文，随时可以开始。

We'll be back in just a minute with Bridget Everett reading today's modern love essay. Stay with us. Okay. Bridget, you are about to read a modern love essay for us by the novelist Victor Lodato. Whenever you're ready.

《你最伟大的浪漫是段友谊》。'这是你孙子吗？'当奥斯汀和我外出时，人们常这样问她。'不亲爱的，他是我朋友。'

One of your greatest romance is a friendship. Is this your grandson? People sometimes ask Austin when she's out with me. No, honey. He's my friend.

这时人们通常僵硬地笑笑走开，或许担心这位老妇人和坐在酒吧里像青少年般嬉笑的年轻男子不止是朋友关系。为什么笑？我也说不上来。我们的欢愉似乎源于相聚时细胞深处的喜悦。我四十出头遇见奥斯汀时，根本没想交朋友。

At this point, folks usually smile tightly and turn away, perhaps worried there is more than friendship going on between the old lady and the younger man seated at the bar, giggling like teenagers. Why we're giggling? I couldn't tell you. Often, our mirth seems fueled by some deep cell delight at being together. When I met Austin, I was in my early forties and not looking for a friend.

我独自来到这个俄勒冈小镇完成一本书。所以当这个蓝眼睛的瘦削陌生人敲门，自称是对面住户，问我要不要去看看她的花园，或许喝杯金汤力时，我礼貌拒绝了。但看着她穿着天鹅绒拖鞋和皱巴巴的衬衫离去时，我突然感到一阵奇怪的刺痛——那种缓慢蔓延的、或许最好称之为孤独的悲伤。突然我就冲上土路道歉，说刚才正在工作，但很乐意参观她的花园。'不要金汤力了？'她说。

I'd come alone to this small Oregon town to finish a book. So when a bony, blue eyed stranger knocked at my door, introducing herself as the lady from across the way, and wondering if I might like to come over and see her garden, maybe have a gin and tonic, I politely declined. Watching her walk away though in her velvet slip ons and wrinkled blouse, I felt a strange pang, a slow pin of sadness that I suppose could be best described as loneliness. Suddenly, was dashing into the dirt road to say that I was sorry, that she had caught me in the middle of work, but that, yes, I would enjoy seeing her garden. Not the gin and tonic, she said.

'噢当然要。'我红着脸回答。还没等我提议下周拜访，她就说：'那几小时后见？四点半怎么样？'我不得不佩服她的时间观念。

Oh, sure. That too, I answered, blushing. And before I could suggest a visit the next week, she said, so I'll see you in a few hours then. Shall we say 04:30? I had to admire her sense of time.

'下周'是属于那些有条件拖延的人。八十多岁的奥斯汀显然没有这种奢侈。'我喜欢你的脸，'她后来承认是在信箱旁注意到我的。她倒着金酒时，我说我也在信箱旁见过她，也喜欢她的脸。'真希望我的眉毛能更好看些，'她说。

Next week is for someone who can afford to put things off. Austin, in her eighties, surely felt no such luxury. I liked your face, she admitted later, telling me she had spotted me at the mailbox. As she poured the gin, I told her that I had seen her at the mailbox as well, and I liked her face too. I wish I had better eyebrows, she said.

它们曾经美得惊人。她的花园令人震撼，仿佛梦境而非人工栽植，一种疯帽匠式的哥特风格，其中弥漫着不羁的优雅。黄昏时分，鹿群会来啃食海棠花。我们已微醺着聊了好几个小时，然后一起在厨房准备晚餐。奥斯汀是位退休心理学家，游历甚广，说着蹩脚的西班牙语和更糟的法语，如今成了画家。

They used to be fabulous. Her garden was astounding, like something dreamed rather than planted, a Mad Hatter Gothic in which a lawless grace prevailed. At dusk, the deer arrived, nibbling the crabapple blossoms. We had been talking for hours, slightly tipsy, and then we were in the kitchen cooking dinner. A retired psychologist, Austen had traveled extensively, spoke terrible Spanish and worse French, and was a painter now.

她有过两任丈夫，第二任就是在这栋房子的客厅小床上离世的。'我也会这样'，奥斯汀告诉我，'这个房间光线最好'。我们转向窗户，但光线早已消失。我们能如此迅速地安然共处而不觉尴尬，这感觉像是个好兆头。

She had two husbands, the second of whom died in this house, in a small bed in the living room. That's what I'll do, Austen told me. This room gets the best light. We turned to the windows, but the light was already gone. That we could be quiet together so soon and without strain felt auspicious.

'所以你是离家出走咯'，她突然说道。我们的互动让我想起童年时的友谊，那时没有任何话题是禁忌。关于宗教，她自称无神论者。我坦言自己被罗马天主教成长的幽灵所困扰。她说她的姐妹们相信地狱，并为她的灵魂担忧。

So you've run away from home, she said at one point. There was something about our interaction that reminded me of friendships from my childhood, in which no question was off limits. On religion, she claimed to be an atheist. I admitted to being haunted by the ghosts of a Roman Catholic upbringing. She said her sisters believed in hell and worried about her soul.

但奥斯汀似乎无所畏惧，尤其不怕死亡。我说自己仍然怕黑。'独居会让人变得古怪'，她说。我笑着转移话题，说想看看她的画作。后来穿过马路回到我在Craigslist上租的临时住所时，我困惑着自己究竟在做什么。

Austen, though, seemed afraid of nothing, least of all death. I said I was still afraid of the dark. Living alone, she said, it can make you funny. I laughed but changed the subject, telling her I would like to see her paintings. Later, crossing the road back to my Craigslist sublet, I wondered what I was doing.

我提醒自己原本的计划：躲起来，沉浸在这本书的梦境里。我不是来社交的。几个月内完成初稿就能回家。再说，若真需要隐居期间的同伴，也该找个同龄人喝啤酒——而不是和老太太在花园里喝金汤力，这不在计划之内。

I reminded myself of my plan, hiding out, staying in the dream of the book. I wasn't here to socialize. I could finish a draft in a few months and head back home. Besides, if I wanted a friend during my retreat, I would find someone my age to throw back beers with. Gin and tonics with an old lady in her garden, and that was not the plan.

但下个周末我又和她共进晚餐，后来竟成了每周惯例。奥斯汀的老友们很困惑：'他在帮你修电脑吗？'有人问。当我首次向异地朋友提起奥斯汀时，他们都以为我交了新男友。

But there I was the next weekend having dinner with her, and then it was every weekend. Austin's older friends seemed confused. Is he helping you with a computer? One asked. When I first started talking about Austin to my out of town friends, they assumed I'd found a new boyfriend.

'奥斯汀是女性'，我会解释，'而且八十多岁了，只是朋友'。即便他们嘴上说着'挺酷'，我几乎能听见他们心想：'俄勒冈州果然没什么选择'。令人费解的或许不是两个年龄悬殊的人成为朋友，而是我们竟成了至交。

Austin's a woman, I would say. Besides, she's in her eighties. She's just a pal. Even as they replied, that's cool, I could almost hear them thinking, must be Slim Pickens out in Oregon. What was perplexing, I suppose, was not that two people of such different ages had become friends, but that we had essentially become best friends.

旁人把我们的亲密看作怪异或新奇，就像那些不可思议的动物友谊，比如猴子和鸽子。不得不承认，当我在镜中看到我俩时，确实显得古怪：这位活力四射的白发精灵穿着鲜艳，戴着粗犷首饰，旁边坐着穿土褐色毛衣、戴克拉克·肯特眼镜的黑发男人。也许我像个书呆子小白脸，或是她的贴心秘书。但外人是否理解并不重要。

Others regarded our devotion as either strange or quaint, like one of those unlikely animal friendships, a monkey and a pigeon perhaps. Admittedly, when I would spot us in a mirror, I saw how peculiar we were. This vivacious white haired imp in her bright colors and chunky style jewelry, sitting with a dark haired man in his drab earth tone sweaters and Clark Kent glasses. Maybe I looked like some nerdy gigolo or this woman's attentive secretary. If we made no sense from the outside, it didn't matter.

我们多数时候只是注视着彼此。某晚奥斯汀聊起她中年时作为学者妻子的生活：'完全错过了六十年代的狂野'。我说我也错过了。'你那会儿还没出生呢'，她笑道，'或者说刚出生'。

We were mostly looking at each other. One night, Austen chatted about her life as a middle aged wife in academia. I completely missed out on the wildness of the sixties, she said. I told her I'd missed out too. You weren't born yet, she said, or hardly.

我们常像初见那晚般一起做饭，之后她会展示正在创作的画作。应她要求，我也开始朗读正在写的书稿。我们互相提建议，作品都因此进步。当六个月租约到期时，我续签了。

Often, cooked together as we had that first night, after which she would show me whatever painting she was working on. At her request, I also started reading to her from my book in progress. We gave each other feedback. Our work improved. When my six month lease was up, I renewed it.

小说尚未完成，何况我无法想象还有比她更好的邻居。不知不觉间，三年过去了。我每周骑行七天，多数夜晚都与奥斯汀共度。如今她时而会突发眩晕，我们散步时她便挽着我的手臂。常常，她找不到合适的词汇表达事物。

The novel wasn't finished, plus I couldn't imagine a better neighbor. Before I knew it, three years had passed. I was riding seven days a week and spending most evenings with Austin. Sometimes she had spells of vertigo now, and when we walked together, she held my arm. Often, couldn't find the right word for something.

当她想要避开访客专心作画时，就在画室门口挂上'请勿打扰'的牌子。很快头痛加剧，言语也愈发混乱。'我得筛选电话'她说，本意是要屏蔽来电。我们笑了，随即沉默。检查日程安排上了。

When she wanted to keep away visitors so she could paint, she hung a sign on her studio door, do not destroy. Soon the headaches came and more jumbled language. I need to screw my calls, she said, meaning she needed to screen them. We laughed, then sobered. Tests were scheduled.

如今她已陷入医生所说的脑部快速恶化病症八个月之久。他们说这无法阻止。若幸运或许还有一年光景。即便我拒绝相信这个诊断，却仍在为此做准备。如何准备？

Now she is eight months into what the doctors say is a quick ravaging illness deep in her brain. They say there is no stopping it. A year more if she's lucky. Even as I refuse to believe this, I prepare for it. How?

通过履行对她的承诺。确诊前几个月，奥斯汀参加了一场婚礼。她给我看了仪式上分发的誓词副本——一份详尽的清单。在奥斯汀的要求下，我仔细阅读了它。

By keeping my promise to her. A few months before her diagnosis, Austin had attended a wedding. She showed me a copy of the vows, which had been distributed at the ceremony. A detailed list. I read it carefully at Austin's bidding.

我们坐在车里等待最爱的泰国餐厅开门。'我生命中的男人从未给过我这样的感受'她指着誓词说，'我们相爱过，但从未达到这种境界'。此刻她哭了，这对她实属罕见。我握住她的手说：'好吧，你和我拥有这一切——除了性'。

We were sitting in a car waiting for our favorite Thai restaurant to open. I never had anything like that with the men in my life, she said, pointing to the vows. We loved each other, but we didn't have that. She was crying now, something she rarely did. I took her hand and said, well, you have it with me, everything but the sex.

就在那时，猴子亲吻了鸽子。那晚我有个奇特领悟：我生命中最伟大的浪漫多是友谊。这些情谊比情爱更神秘，更微妙，更无私，更充满善意。当然，奥斯汀注定会比我先离世。

At which point, the monkey kissed the pigeon. That night, I had an odd realization. Some of the greatest romances of my life have been friendships. And these friendships have been, in many mysterious than erotic love, more subtle, less selfish, more attuned to kindness. Of course, Austin was going to die long before I did.

但重点不在此处。我逐渐明白，这是个爱情故事。奥斯汀又坚持作画了几个月，创作出炽烈色彩下破碎迷幻的自画像——她最好的作品。但近来她疲惫不堪，几乎离不开沙发。我坐在另一端与她腿脚相缠。

That's not what this is about. This, I have come to understand, is a love story. Austin continued to paint for several months more, fractured psychedelic self portraits in scorching colors, her best work. Lately, though, she is tired and hardly leaves a couch. I sit with her at the opposite end, our legs intertwined.

'读给我听'她说。当我告知书已读完，她便要我念些新的。可每次我刚读，她就立刻睡着。但我并不离开，只是凝望窗外。

Read to me, she says. When I tell her the book is finished, she tells me to read her something new. But whenever I do, she promptly falls asleep. I don't leave, though. I stare out the window.

奥斯汀说得对，这个房间确实采光最佳。最近她头发稀疏，但前额那簇白发被朋友的女儿染了道紫红色，像极了我高中时可能约会过的朋克女孩。上次探望时她稍有力气，说：'哦维克多，今天我吃了最棒的甜点——康涅狄格的桃子'。

Austin was right. This room does get the best light. Recently, her hair is thinned, but she has a shock of white upfront that a friend's daughter has dyed with a streak of fuchsia. She looks like some punk girl I might have dated in high school. She had a bit more energy the last time I came to visit and said, oh, Victor, I had the most wonderful dessert today, peaches in Connecticut.

'你尝过吗？' '没有'我微笑道，'但这个组合很美妙——看似不搭调的两样东西。猴子和鸽子，康涅狄格的桃子'。

Have you ever had it? No, I said smiling. I love the idea of it. Two things that don't seem to go together. Monkeys and pigeons, peaches in Connecticut.

虽然罕见，但确实美妙得难以言表。多么优美动人的一篇文章啊。

Unlikely, yes, but delicious beyond measure. Such a beautiful, beautiful essay.

是啊。说说你的感受。读起来感觉如何？嗯，我，

Yeah. Tell me your thoughts. How did that feel to to read? Well, I,

你知道，我我我觉得对我来说，就像之前提到的，当你读到伟大的爱情故事时，似乎总是关于浪漫关系。而我就特别喜欢这两个人找到了彼此，他们就是彼此命中注定的人。我我不知道。这段关系最美好之处在于他们就这样自然而然地共同生活在一起。而且而且我我也不清楚。

you know, I I I think that for me, as I mentioned before, you know, when you read about great loves, it's always seems to be about a romantic relationship. And I just I just love that these are two people that have found each other, and and they just and they're the one for each other. I I don't know. I think what's so great about this relationship is they just sort of slip into kind of a life together. And and and I and I don't know.

我就是我我我想要那样的关系。嗯。我周围都是处于恋爱关系中的人。嗯。但这并不是我现在追求的，至少目前不是。

I just I I I want that. Yeah. I'm surrounded by people in romantic relationships. Mhmm. And and it's not what I'm looking for, at least not right now.

所以当我看到有人能找到——首先这让我相信你总能遇到那个人。他们他们可能不是你想象中的模样。嗯。不是你预期中想要或需要的模样。这提醒我要保持开放心态。你知道，文中他们谈到坐在沙发上双腿交缠的部分，能与某人拥有那种亲密却无需期待浪漫关系——这直击我的心灵深处。

And so when I see somebody that finds first of all, it gives me hope that you can always find somebody. They they may not look what you think look like what you think you're gonna Mhmm. What you're gonna want or what you're gonna need. It reminds me to stay open. You know, the the part where they talk about sitting on the couch and their legs intertwined is, to have that kind of intimacy with somebody without the expectation of a romance is it's just it just hits me right in my heart.

我不知道。我很感动，而且我最近有个新邻居，她人很棒。我能感觉到她非常想念住在我之前的那个房客。倒不是说她对我不好什么的，但我就想到保持开放心态的可能性，不要逃避，因为看看这丰厚的回报。是啊。

I don't know. I'm moved, and I have this, you know, new neighbor, and she's she's great. And I can tell that she really misses the person that lived there before me. And and not that, you know, she's awesome or anything like that, but I just think about the possibility of keeping yourself open and and not running away from it because look at the great reward. Yeah.

看看维克托和奥斯汀之间这美好的情谊。而且这确实存在。就像当所有朋友都恋爱时。嗯。你会觉得像是没人填写的紧急联系人。

Look at the great reward between Victor and Austin. And and it is a thing. It's too. It's like when all your friends are in relationships Yeah. You sort of and you're like, nobody's emergency contact.

嗯。你知道，这确实会让人感到些许孤独。但世界上可能也有人和你一样，正在寻找这种纯粹的——你知道，说不定就有适合我的锅盖。是啊。虽然我讨厌这个比喻。

Mhmm. You know, it it it can feel a little lonely. And but there are other people out there that might be the same and looking for this totally you know, there might be a lid for my pot. Yeah. I'm like, you know, I hate that expression.

是啊。但或许或许我的锅盖会是个穿着舒适懒人鞋的女士，正在信箱旁打量我呢。

Yeah. But, you know, maybe maybe my my lid comes in the version of a a lady with some, comfortable slip on shoes. Just checking me out at my mailbox.

你那位新邻居。我正想说，你愿意对这位邻居女士保持开放态度发展友谊

Your new neighbor. I was gonna say that the fact that you are keeping yourself open to this friendship with, with your neighbor lady

不，我在努力。

No. I'm trying.

你在努力。但这打破了'不接纳新人'的规则。你正在打破这条规则，这既美好又惊人，既勇敢又充满人性，包含了所有这些特质。

You're trying. But that's breaking the end the no new people rule. You're breaking the no new people rule, is beautiful and amazing and brave and human and all of those things.

是啊。我就是喜欢这一点，你知道吗，她就这样，好吧，四点半。你知道，她就是这样。

Yeah. And I I just love that, you know, that that she's like, okay. Four thirty. You know, like, she's

她把他带进来了。

She's bringing him in.

她说什么来着？你知道，你没有那种奢侈，明白吗，像'以后再说'是那些有时间的人的特权。

What does she say? You know, you you don't have the luxury, you know, like, later is for people

有时间的人。

Who have time.

有时间的人。而且说实话，过去几年我经历的失去，让我们明白，我们并不总是有时间。所以

Who have time. And and honestly, like, the amount of loss I've experienced over the last few years, it's we don't always have time. So

是啊。你

Yeah. You

知道吗？所以来杯金汤力吧。

know what? So have the gin and tonic.

趁还能喝的时候来杯金汤力。完全同意。我们马上回来。你知道，你在谈论这位邻居，我还想问问，读这篇文章时，显然维克多和奥斯汀的友谊让人感觉非常像——或者说不是相似，但让我想起《某处某人》中你饰演的角色萨姆和她最好的朋友乔尔之间的那种共鸣。我在想，现实生活中是否也有人让你在读这篇文章时想起了某个朋友？

Have the gin and tonic while you can. Absolutely. We'll be right back. You know, you're you're speaking about this neighbor, and I I wanna ask too, like, reading this essay, obviously, the friendship between Victor and Austen feels very similar to the or not similar, but it reminds me of those resonances of the friendship between Sam, your character on somebody somewhere, and Joel, her best friend. And I wonder too, like, is there anyone in your real life where you read this essay and you're thinking about, you know, this friend?

具体来说，并没有。我是说，提到乔尔时，有个人让我想起——我曾以为自己拥有这样一个人，然后...你知道，他们...他们现在依然...我们依然非常亲密，仍是我最好的朋友之一。但我确实怀念那种感觉，因为现在他有了恋爱关系，一切就变了。山姆也对乔尔说过，这永远不会...不会再像从前那样。对吧。

Specifically, no. I mean, there's somebody when it comes to Joel that that reminds me, you know, I did have what I thought was this person, and then, you know, they they and they're still you know, we're still very close you know, still one of my best friends. But, you know, but I miss that, you know, because then, you know, he's in a relationship now, and it just changes. And Sam says that to Joel, like, it's never gonna it's not gonna be the same. And Right.

这并不意味着我们不能...我们依然保持着珍贵的关系，只是...我觉得曾经那种感觉已经改变了。确实改变了。

It doesn't mean that you can't that, you know, we still have a very valuable relationship, but but I just think this was that. And it changed. And it changed.

你知道吗，你这么说真的很耐人寻味

You know, it's so interesting that you say

这没什么。

And that's okay.

是的。我正想说，你是怎么...当然，这...这很正常。

Yeah. I was gonna say, how did you yeah. Of course, it it's okay.

当时我的表现很糟糕，但是...

And I was awful when it did, but

我...你所说的非常有意思，在你愿意分享的范围内，我觉得自己深有同感。很多听众也会有共鸣，你说这真的他妈太难了。

I Well, I wanna it's so interesting what you're saying because as much as you're willing to share, feel like that's something I can relate to. I think many listeners can relate to, and you said it's really freaking hard.

确实。

It is.

你是怎么熬过来的？比如，你当时怎么劝慰自己的？

How did you get through that? Like, what did you tell yourself?

这花了我很长时间。我当时的反应真的很...你知道，冲动又不成熟。但后来他...他们一开始像是一起消失了，这也没什么。我能理解双方立场——为什么你会想沉浸在恋爱关系中，总觉得朋友永远会在那里。但我似乎总是扮演那个在原地等待的角色。

I mean, it took me a long time. I was really react you know, reactionary and and immature, and, like but he he and, you know, and at first, they kinda disappeared together, and that and that's also okay. Like, I understand both sides of it. Like, why why you wanna get lost in a in a romantic relationship, and, you know, you think your friends are always gonna be there. But I've kinda always been that person for people.

我一直有种感觉，她会在那里。久而久之，这种想法开始影响你，就像，你不想觉得自己是备胎或次要的，懂吗？就是忍不住会有这种感觉。但我也认为，不能仅仅因为某人处于恋爱关系中，就意味着你不能成为他们生活中的重要部分——我在试着找到合适的词。

I've always kinda been like, she'll be there. And and after a while, you start to kind of it it it affects you, and, like, it's like, you don't wanna feel like the second or third string, you know? Just like you can't help but feel that way. But I also don't think that that just because somebody's in a romantic relationship that that means that you can't be a folk you know, a I'm trying to think

一个焦点。只是你不再是唯一的那个人了。

of the right word. A focal point in their life. You're just not the only one anymore.

是啊。所以你得适应和调整，有时候你需要朋友让你知道，他们有了这段美好的新恋情，这很棒。我真心为我的朋友高兴，Sam也为Joel开心。但有时候你需要知道自己依然重要。

Yeah. And so you have to kind of acclimate and adjust, and and and sometimes you need your friend to let you know that that, you know, they have this new wonderful romantic relationship, and great. And and I am I I am happy for my friend, and Sam is happy happy for Joel. But, like, you know, sometimes you need to know that you matter. You

接受你可能不会永远像对方对你那样，成为他们生活中最重要的人。

accepting that you might not always be as primary to someone as they are to you.

没错。事实上我的很多友谊都是这样，比如我约他们做什么时，他们会说‘我先问问某某’。我理解你们共同生活，这很正常。但如果身边每个人都这样，你就会开始觉得，好吧，我只是...

Yeah. And that the the truth is a lot of my friendships are like, you know, if I ask them to do something, they're like, well, let me check with, you know, so and so first. And I understand that you have a life together. Of course. But it does make if you if everybody's around you is kinda like that, then you start to feel like, well, I'm just like Yeah.

懂吧，我只有在别人方便时才被想起，这确实很伤人。所以看到这样的情景就像...嗯，这简直是梦想成真，给了我很多希望。

You know, I'm here when it's convenient for other people, and it and it hurts. Yeah. So seeing something like this is like Mhmm. It just is it's a dream, and it gives me a lot of hope.

我很喜欢你刚才说的，当我问作为感觉像备胎的朋友能做什么时，你说最重要的是让对方明确告诉你‘你很重要’。这种提醒很必要。

I love what you said that, you know, I asked you what can you do as the friend who feels like the the backup or or whatever. And what you said is it's really good for them to let you know you matter. It's to be reminded.

感觉总是要由那个单身的人来适应和调整。你确实会这么做，也应该这么做。但不知道，可能我太自私了，但我...

It feels like it's always up to the person that's like Unattached. That's unattached to kinda adapt and sort of and and and you you do, and you should, obviously. Yeah. But I don't know. I'm probably being selfish, but I but I

我完全不觉得你自私。

do not think you're being selfish at all.

我是说，不是要刷新

Mean, no refresh

和这些人一起，然后刷新它。是的。

my with these people and refresh it. Yeah.

戴上它。

Put it on.

就像我说的那样。不。但我认为这是一种完美的提炼。我是说，虽然简单，但我认为这是友谊的真实写照。就是看着某人的眼睛说，你很重要。

Be like, I said it. No. But I think that's so it's kind of a perfect distillation. I mean, a simple one, but I think a true one of what friendship can be. It's just looking someone in eyes and saying, you matter.

你对我很重要。你永远对我很重要。是的。对我来说，这就是友谊的意义。

You matter to me. You will always matter to me. Yeah. That feels to me like that is what friendship is.

你只是...而且我觉得...你知道，这一季里山姆和乔尔之间就发生了类似的事，她需要这个。

You just And I and I think there you know, something like that happens in this season with Sam and Joel, and, like and and she needs it.

是的。你能描述一个你真正确信自己对朋友很重要的时刻吗？比如，有没有人做了什么或说了什么让你有这种感觉？

Yeah. Can you describe a moment where you really felt sure that you mattered to a friend? Like, was there something someone did or said where you felt that?

是的。我想...我的朋友们知道，他们...他们会告诉我他们爱我。我知道他们爱我。我...我...我知道他们确实爱我，但也要我自己能听进去。懂吗？

Yeah. I I think my friends know that I, you know, they they tell me they love me. I know they do. I I I know that I know that they they do, but it's also up to me to hear it. You know?

就是这样

And that's

但你这话是什么意思？

But what do you mean by that?

嗯，我是说，我得能接受它。而且...你知道...有时候挺难的。是的。我刚和玛丽·凯瑟琳在一起——她在剧里演我妹妹特里西娅，我们见到了她的室友们...然后她对我说了句话。她说...她说，你知道我爱你。

Well, I mean, I have to be able to take it in. And it's, you know, it's it's challenging sometimes. Yeah. I was just with Mary Katherine who plays Tricia, my sister on the show, and we see her roommates, and, you know, and and she said something to me. She's like she's like, you know I love you.

对吧？我当时就像，你知道的，我喝了几杯玛格丽塔，我就说，别别急着分析现在的我。但她是个很好的朋友，而且她一直付出很多。我的朋友扎克真的花了很多时间让我听进去。所以我觉得这才是最关键的部分——你得让自己接受它。

Right? And I was like I was like you know, I'd had a couple of margarinis, and I was like, don't don't try to unpack my me right now. But she's, you know, she's a great friend, and and she's always done a lot. My friend Zach has really invested a lot of time into making me hear it. So I and I think that's kind of the most important part that you have to you have to let it in.

是啊，这并不容易。

Yeah. It's not easy.

你知道我在想什么吗？随着年纪增长，人们开始恋爱关系时总有个预期，好像友情会变得不那么重要。对吧？它就像在优先级列表上靠后了，比不上你的配偶、孩子、工作这些。

You know what I'm thinking too with with you know, people have expectations when we get older and we enter into romantic relationships that, like, friendship will become less important. Right? It's just, like, lower down on the hierarchy. It's less important than, you know, your your spouse or your kids or your job or whatever.

一大堆事情。

A whole host of things.

对吧？嗯哼。成年后面对这么多争夺时间的事物，我们该如何培养亲密的友谊呢？无论是我们的时间还是朋友的时间。

Right? Uh-huh. How can we cultivate close friendships in our adulthood when there's so much else competing for our time or for our friend's time?

我不知道。真的不知道。我...我猜...我的梦想是能再次成为朋友生活的中心。但...我也不确定。

I don't know. I don't know. I yeah. I I I guess that the you know, my dream is to to be to have a central you know, be central in a friend's life again. And and I I don't know.

我只是...我爱我所有的朋友。我不想...不想让他们听到这些...

I just I love all my friends. I don't wanna you know, I don't want them to listen to sound

听起来像...

like it.

我不想让他们听到这个后产生任何...任何负面的想法。但当朋友把我放在优先位置时，这真的很重要。因为就像你说的，生活总会卷走人们的注意力，有时候友情就被挤到后排了。但山姆和乔尔不是这样，这正是我珍视的。

I don't want them to listen to this and and think any anything, you less than that. But when my friends are making me a priority, it matters. Yeah. Because it is like all those things you say. Like, there's just life sweeps people up, and and sometimes the fur the friendships, you know, they become a backseat, and and it's not that way for Sam and Joel, and that's what I love.

感觉就像个幻想。

I feel like it's fantasy.

确实如此，或者说更准确的是，这对你而言并非如此。我想说的是，虽然不想听起来太老套，但确实有很多人对友情有同感。不过我相信，总有人在某个地方让这些人感到被真正理解。正如你所说，我们有太多浪漫喜剧讲述男女相遇、女女相遇或男男相遇的故事，但那都是关于浪漫爱情的。

And it's so true that it's it it's so clear, rather, that it's it's not that way for you. And I think I mean, not to get you know, bit cheesy with it, but I think there are a lot of people who feel that way about friendships. But I do think that somebody somewhere helps those people feel very seen. As you say, those those stories are we have so many romantic comedies where it's, you know, girl meets guy or girl meets girl, guy meets guy, whatever. But it's romantic love.

是的。而你们节目的连接点在于，那个爱情故事其实是关于友情的。对。而且它

Yeah. And the connective thing about your show is that that love story is a is a friendship. Yeah. And it

并且学会...这种关系是核心，但同时你们也能在各自的生活中始终将对方置于首要位置。你知道，在核心处。在核心处。

And learning to and and that it is central, but but it's also just then how you can both go about your lives with with keeping each other at the at the forefront, At you know the core. At the core.

好的。在文章接近尾声时我要问你最后一个问题：维克多告诉奥斯汀他们的关系除了性之外应有尽有。他意识到'我生命中最伟大的浪漫都是友情'。你如何看待用'浪漫'这个词来形容友谊？这个表述成立吗？

Yeah. My final question to you near the end of this essay, Victor tells Austen that their relationship has everything but sex. And he realizes that, quote, the greatest romances of my life have been friendships. What do you think about the idea of using romance to describe a friendship, that word. Does it work?

我们需要更好的词汇吗？

Do we need better words?

不。我喜欢这个说法。我经常这么说。比如山姆和乔尔，他们彼此坠入爱河，这确实就是一段浪漫史。

No. I love it. I love it. I say that all the time. I'm like, you know, with with Sam and Joel, like, they they fall in love with each other, and and I and it is a romance.

就像你可能会被朋友迷得神魂颠倒，即使没有性关系，你在某种程度上也是爱着他们的。

It is like you can you can get swept off your feet by a friend, and you don't have just because, you know, there's there's may not be the sex involved, you are in love with them in some degree.

布里奇特·埃弗里特，非常感谢你。这次对话如此美好且充满肯定，我真的很感激。

Bridget Everett, thank you so much. This was such a lovely and affirming conversation. I really appreciate it.

谢谢。感谢邀请我参与节目。

Thank you. I appreciate you having me in.

黄金时段艾美奖将于9月14日在CBS播出。您可以在节目备注中找到维克多·洛达托的文章《当你最伟大的浪漫是友情时》的链接。《现代爱情》由里瓦·戈德堡、戴维斯·兰德、艾米丽·朗和艾米·珀尔制作，林恩·利维编辑，执行制作人詹·波伊兰特，制作管理由克里斯蒂娜·约瑟夫负责。

The Primetime Emmy Awards will air on September 14 on CBS. And you can find a link to Victor Lodato's essay, when your greatest romance is a friendship, in our show notes. Modern Love is produced by Riva Goldberg, Davis Land, Emily Lang, and Amy Pearl. It's edited by Lynn Levy and our executive producer, Jen Poillant. Production management by Christina Joseph.

《现代爱情》的主题音乐由Dan Powell创作。本集原创音乐由Rowan Nemisto、Dan Powell、Amin Sahota和Diane Wong共同完成。本集混音由Daniel Ramirez和Efem Shapiro负责，录音室支持来自Maddie Masiello和Nick Pittman。特别感谢Mahima Choblany和Jeffrey Miranda，以及我们的视频团队Brooke Minters、Sawyer Roque和Eddie Costas。《现代爱情》专栏由Daniel Jones编辑。

The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell. Original music in this episode by Rowan Nemisto, Dan Powell, Amin Sahota, and Diane Wong. This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez and Efem Shapiro with studio support from Maddie Masiello and Nick Pittman. Special thanks to Mahima Choblany and Jeffrey Miranda and to our video team, Brooke Minters, Sawyer Roque, and Eddie Costas. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones.

Mia Lee是《现代爱情》项目的编辑。如果您想向《纽约时报》提交一篇散文或微型爱情故事，我们的节目说明中提供了投稿指南。我是Anna Martin，感谢您的收听。

Mia Lee is editor of modern love projects. If you want to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.