约会应用糟透了，AI克隆让它们变得更诡异。

美与赢得网球大满贯、赋能社区或在南美洲的荒野之心追踪美洲豹有何关联？大家好，我是伊莎贝拉·罗西里尼，欢迎回到《这不是一档美容播客》第二季，我将揭示那些触及美如何贯穿我们生活方方面面的故事。请在您喜爱的播客平台上收听由欧莱雅集团呈现的《这不是一档美容播客》。爱在当下，亦在未来。

What does beauty have to do with winning a tennis grand slam or empowering communities or tracking jaguars through the wild heart of South America? Hi there. I'm Isabella Rossellini, and I'm back with season two of this is not a beauty podcast where I uncover stories that get to the heart of how beauty is woven through every facet of our lives. Listen to this is not a beauty podcast from L'Oreal Group on your favorite podcast platform. Love now and tomorrow.

爱。爱比任何事物都强大。为了爱。我能爱你胜过一切吗？爱。

Love. Love is stronger than anything. For the love Love. Can I love you more than anything? Love.

唯有爱。爱。

Just love. Love.

这里是《纽约时报》，我是安娜·马丁。这是《现代爱情》。你准备好开始了吗？

From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is modern love. Are you ready to go?

我准备好了。好的，我们开始吧。

I'm ready to go. Okay. Let's do it.

今天，我要与我的同事伊莱·谭对话。

Today, I'm talking to my colleague, Eli Tan.

感谢邀请我参与节目。

Thanks for having me on.

埃利是《时代》杂志的一名记者，26岁，住在旧金山，单身。这意味着埃利和我认识的几乎所有单身人士一样，都在使用约会软件。而且，就像我认识的其他单身人士一样，埃利认为这些约会软件糟糕透了。

Eli is a reporter at the Times. He's 26. He lives in San Francisco, and he's single. That means Eli, like nearly every other single person I know, is on the dating apps. And also, just like every other single person I know, Eli thinks the dating apps are awful.

他告诉我，他进行的每一次对话感觉都一模一样。

He told me every conversation he has feels exactly the same.

说实话，这感觉就像一种阈限互动，你一天可以进行十几次，但内容总是千篇一律。甚至没人会记得在约会软件上和别人的对话，尤其是当这段关系从未发展到现实世界时。这种互动就像是为了进入下一阶段而进行的奇怪表演。

Honestly, it feels like kind of this liminal interaction that you can have, you know, a dozen times a day where it's always, you know, the same type of thing. And no one ever remembers the conversation they have with someone on a dating app even when they you never continue that in the real world. It's kind of this weird, like, performative interaction that you do just to get to the next step.

你是否觉得被这些软件困住了？比如，你是否觉得这是认识新人的唯一途径？

Do you feel sort of trapped by these apps? Like, do you feel like it's the only way that you can meet people?

在很多方面确实如此。我看过数据，如今大学毕业后通过约会软件开始的恋爱关系占了绝大多数。所以从很多角度来看，这似乎是大家都在做的事，但如果有机会，如果我们都能停止使用约会软件，我们肯定会这么做。

In a lot of ways, do. Yeah. I think I've looked at the data of how many relationships after college start on dating apps nowadays, and it's like the vast majority or something. So a lot of ways, it feels like it's something that everyone is doing, but also if it's possible, if we could all just stop going at dating apps, we would.

太真实了。是啊，这有点像

It's so true. Yeah. It's kind

人们对社交媒体上瘾的感觉，他们会说，希望没人用这些平台，这样我就不用觉得自己也必须用了。完全同意。这就是我对约会软件的感受。毕竟，我已经用了好几年约会软件了。

of like how, you know, people feel addicted to social media, they say, I wish that nobody was on it. Because then I wouldn't feel a need to be on it. Completely. And that's how I feel about dating apps. I mean, I've spent years on dating apps.

有一次，我特意去听了Hinge创始人的访谈。他在播客上谈到如何优化个人资料的最佳方法。

And at one point, I went and I actually listened to the Hinge founders. He he went on podcasts and talked about, well, here are the best ways to make your profile.

他说了什么？就是放张和朋友合照之类的？我就想，这我早知道了。

What did he say? He just had a photo with friends. I'm like, I know.

那套方法非常数据驱动。总是说，当你设置有趣的互动问题时，能促成多少比例的匹配。你应该多回应问题提示，而不是盲目发送喜欢。我当时就想，好吧。

It was very data driven. Always said, okay. This many of the, you know, relationships start when you have kind of a fun prompt, and you always wanna be responding to prompts. You don't wanna be just sending likes out into the ether. And I said, okay.

既然要用这些交友软件，不如采用可能有效的策略。刷屏和聊天太容易让人疲惫了，所以我觉得如果有数据驱动的方法能改善体验，就该试试看效果如何。

I can if I'm gonna be on these apps, I might as well have an approach that would work. You know, it's so easy to get fatigued with swiping and talking that I thought, oh, if there's kind of a data driven way to make this better, like, I should try to do it and see how it works.

问题是数据驱动对Eli并不奏效。他优化资料、精选讨论话题和照片后，约会次数确实增加了，但始终遇不到真正契合的人。后来Eli发现了一类新型AI交友软件，号称能用人工智能解决这些问题。于是他注册账号，创建了能进行数百次虚拟约会的AI分身，还使用AI约会教练来帮助调情，相当于电子僚机。

The thing is that data driven approach didn't really work for Eli. He optimized his profile, chose the best discussion prompts he could, the best photos, he and was going on more dates, sure, but he couldn't find anyone he really connected with. But then Eli learned about a new kind of dating app, apps that promise to solve his problems using AI. So Eli signed up. He made AI clones of himself that could go on hundreds of virtual dates, and he used AI dating coaches to help him flirt, kinda be his wingman.

我从没听说过有人这样谈恋爱。这就是我们今天要探讨的：当Eli将约会主导权交给AI后发生了什么，以及这项技术能否解决我们的恋爱困境。请继续收听。

I've never heard of someone dating like this ever. So that's what we're talking about today. What happened when Eli handed over control of his dating life to AI and whether this technology can solve our dating woes. Stick with us. Okay.

Eli，你今天要和我们聊用AI谈恋爱的事。我最好奇的是，为什么会有人这么做？为什么要把AI引入我们的感情生活？

Eli, you are here to talk about dating using AI. And I guess I'm I'm curious in the broadest sense, like, why would someone do that? Why introduce AI into our dating life?

所以我认为它试图解决的问题是，在交友应用上与人们交谈和匹配可能是一件既繁琐又耗时的事情。

So the problem I think it's trying to solve is that talking to people and matching with people on dating apps can be kind of this tedious and time consuming thing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这个想法是，如果你将自己克隆成一个AI，当你试探是否可能喜欢某人时，AI可以帮你处理那些初步的对话。是的，这样能节省你的时间。如果你有这么多约会，最好的一个或两个将会是与真正合适的人。因此，这种方式也能节省你的时间。嗯。

And the idea is that if you clone yourself as an AI, and the AI can take care of kind of the that initial conversation when you're kind of feeling out if you might like someone or not Yeah. Then it can save you time. And then if you have so many of these dates, the best one or two are gonna be with somebody that's really compatible. So in that way, it can save you time as well. Mhmm.

就我而言，我有我的克隆体。它每周进行数百次约会，这比我一个人能应付的多得多。我通常最多可能一周安排一次约会。

In my case, I had my clone. It was going on hundreds of dates a week, which is more than I would ever be able to go on by myself. I can usually, at most, probably manage one date a week.

我对你刚才说的一切有很多问题。但在我们深入之前，我只想明确一点。你不仅仅是在使用一个演示版或类似的东西。这些都是真实的应用程序，旨在帮助人们在约会生活中使用AI。而你实际上是用真实姓名、真实照片创建了一个真实的个人资料，真诚地试图认识某人。

I have I have so many questions about everything you just said. But but before we do that, I just wanna make something really clear. You weren't just using a demo or something here. These were real apps or made to help people use AI in their dating lives. And you actually did this making a real profile using your real name, your real photos, like earnestly trying to meet someone.

你当时紧张吗？

Were you nervous for that?

并不紧张。我想我更多的是好奇。

Not really. I think I was more curious.

完全没有。

Not at all.

最坏的情况也不过如此。不，其实也不是。不，我是说，人们告诉我这可能有点奇怪或有点反乌托邦。

Worst that could happen. No. Not not really. No. I mean, I thought it might be kind of weird or a little bit dystopian, people tell me.

但个人认为，我更多只是出于好奇，而非预想的那样。我觉得整件事有点幽默。

But I think it's, personally, I was more just curious than I thought it would be. I thought the whole thing was kind of a humorous

真的吗？天哪。我会非常害怕的。我会非常紧张。

thing. Really? Oh my gosh. I'd be really scared. I'd be really nervous.

我只是觉得，我不知道。比如，我不会拿自己真实的感情生活做实验。而且我还是主持一档关于爱情的播客的人，我会对那样做感到非常紧张。也许这是自尊心作祟吧。

I just feel like, I don't know. Like, I would not do an experiment with my actual love life. And I'm the one that hosts a podcast about love, like, I would feel very nervous about doing that. I don't know. Maybe that's ego.

你纯粹是出于好奇，这让我觉得很酷。

It's cool to me that you were just purely curious about it.

是啊。部分原因可能是约会应用本来就让人很沮丧。

Yeah. Some of it's probably that dating apps can be so frustrating anyways.

你当时的态度就是，干脆炸了它看看会发生什么。

You were like, let's just blow it up and see.

是啊，有何不可？事情还能糟糕到哪里去？我可以克隆自己然后和克隆体约会。为什么不呢？

Yeah. Why not? How how much worse could things get? I'll make a clone of myself and date that way. Why not?

这可不...好吧。我想深入了解细节。关于克隆应用，你当时用的是哪些软件？它们具体有什么功能？

That's fine. Not. Okay. I wanna get into the specifics here. When it comes to the cloning apps, what apps were you using, and what did they do?

克隆应用方面，我用过一款叫Ice的软件，它能创建可以与真人对话的克隆体。还有另一个叫Volr的应用，可以生成与其他人的克隆体交流的克隆体。

So for the cloning apps, I used one app called Ice, which let me create a clone that could then talk to real people. And then I used another app called Volr, which let me create clones that talk to other people's clones.

具体解释下这个过程。你想用AI克隆复制自己的人格，具体是怎么操作的？比如这个计算机模型是如何训练的？

Kinda break that down for me. You're trying to duplicate your personality in AI clone. What does that look like? Like, how are you training this computer model?

如果每个克隆体都有自己的聊天机器人，它们本质上就像我的大脑。所以...我会像和密友发信息那样与这些克隆体交流，让它们逐渐掌握我的说话节奏

Well, if each of these clones had their own chatbot, they would essentially be like my brain. So Oh. I would basically be texting these clones like I would a close friend so that they could pick up on, you know, my my cadence

你的行为习惯。

Your mannerisms.

我感兴趣的事情。克隆体会询问我在关系中寻找什么，并试图了解这一点，这样当它进入约会池时，就能表现得像我一样。嗯。

The things that I'm interested in. The clones would kind of ask me what I'm looking for in a relationship and try to feel that out so that when it went out there Mhmm. Itself into the dating pool, it could act just like me.

我能问问你，它具体问了哪些类型的问题，以及你是如何回应的吗？

And can I ask you, like, what types of questions, the specific questions it was asking you and and how you responded?

是的。它会问些典型的约会兴趣问题。比如，你周末喜欢做什么？你在关系中寻找什么？你的爱的语言是什么？

Yeah. It would be kind of the typical dating interest. So, like, oh, what do you like to do on the weekends? What are you looking for in a relationship? What are your love languages?

嗯哼。那你说你在寻找什么呢？

Uh-huh. And what did you say you were looking for?

你曾经有过的关系。为了这个目的，是的，我训练了它。我说，是的，我在寻找一段关系。

Relationships you've been in. For the purposes of this, yeah, I trained it. I said, yeah, I'm looking for relationship.

嗯。我

Mhmm. I'm

在寻找一个认真的伴侣。

looking for, you know, a serious partner.

嗯。你刚才说你周末喜欢做什么？我只是想了解一下，大概是你，但其实是你克隆体的性格。

Mhmm. And what did you say you like to do on the weekends? I'm just trying to get a sense of, I guess, you, but really your clone.

所以这里就变得困难了，因为你知道，要把自己的个性用文字表达出来有时候挺难的。

So that's where it got difficult because it's it can be difficult to, you know, put your personality into text like that.

完全同意。就像是和朋友出去玩，然后

Totally. It's like hang out with friends and

聊天。到头来我们都差不多，因为大家都喜欢出去吃饭、逛公园。

chat. And then the end of the day, we're all kind of similar because everyone likes to go out and eat at restaurants and hang out at parks.

还有，比如健身。对。

And, like, work out. Yeah.

是啊。然后有个特别让我头疼的事，就是得向我的克隆体解释：我虽然喜欢户外和大自然，但实际上很少真正去户外活动。几乎从不徒步旅行。所以我的克隆体总会跟人说'我周末去徒步了，做了这个那个'，而我不得不纠正它说——不，我只是声称喜欢这些，但我连双登山鞋都没买过。

Yeah. And then there was one one particular thing I had a really difficult time, which was trying to explain to my clone that I like I like the outdoors and I like nature, but I don't actually really go in the outdoors much. Don't really go hiking. So my clone would always tell people that, you know, oh, I went on this hike this weekend and I did this, and I had to explain to it, like, no. I I say I like those things, but I've never actually owned hiking shoes.

你懂吧？

You know?

你提到的这些地方我都不熟悉，因为我更像是向往成为户外运动爱好者那种类型的人。就是那种，你知道的，那些看起来

I I don't know any of these places you're mentioning because I just more kind of like the idea of being an outdoorsy person. It it you know, those type of things that were seem

从攀登乞力马扎罗山回来后就挺自然的，你会觉得，我们得重新适应。我就爬了个小山坡。对。对。对。

kind intuitive to back from climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, and you're like, we gotta roll that back. I walked up a hill. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

我想确认一下，这些克隆程序是接入现有的约会应用吗？比如Hinge和Tinder，还是它们属于独立的应用？

I I wanna clarify, like, do these clones hook into, like, existing dating apps that we have, like Hinge and Tinder, or are they sort of on separate apps?

克隆应用都是独立的程序。

So the clone apps are separate apps.

明白了。

Okay.

据我所知，很多热门约会应用正在开发自己的克隆功能，但目前都是内部测试。所以我用的基本上是小众应用，是的。它们是独立存在的。你需要登录这些应用，创建自己的个人资料。好的。

From what I understand, a lot of these really popular dating apps are working on creating their own clones, but that's all internal for now. So I use basically smaller apps that are yeah. They're they're their own thing. So you log on to them, you have your own profile. Okay.

它们不会与Hinge这类平台互通

They don't connect to places like Hinge

或者你登录它们。你训练这个克隆体。就像你说的，你上传

or You log on to them. You train the clone. Like you said, you upload the

是的。

Yes.

照片，然后你给它发信息，告诉它你喜欢什么，它正在学习你的节奏。所以你训练这个克隆体，然后它出去和谁交谈？

The photos, and and you're texting it and telling it about what you enjoy, and it's picking up on your cadence. And so you train up this clone that then goes out and has conversations with with who?

所以克隆体会和其他人的克隆体交谈。每天结束时，我会收到一个通知，说你的克隆体今天进行了100次约会。看看进展如何。我可以浏览这些克隆体之间的长对话。如果我愿意，我可以说，好吧。

So the clones would have conversations with other people's clones. So at the end of every day, I would get a notification that said, your clone went on a 100 dates today. Check and see how they went. I could go through and I could look at these long conversations that these two clones would have together. And if I wanted to, I could say, okay.

我觉得这次效果很好。我觉得这里有些东西我可以手动输入。然后我们的克隆体变成人类，我们就这样交谈。

I think this worked out really well. I think there's something here I can manually kind of enter. And then our clones become humans, and we talk that way.

所以你会在白天做其他事情，比如工作，和真实世界里的人相处后，打开手机，登录这个应用，它会说你的克隆体进行了100次约会，然后你实际上是在阅读这些约会的文字记录？

So you'd, like, open up your phone after just, like, doing other things during the day, doing your job, hanging out with, like, real people in the world. And you'd log on to this app, and it would say your clone has gone on a 100 dates, and you'd functionally read transcripts of these of these dates?

是的。所以我会收到一个通知，说我的克隆体进行了10次、20次或30次约会，然后我可以进去阅读这些文字记录，看看进展如何。

Yeah. So I would get a notification that my clone had gone on 10 or 20 or 30 dates, and then I could go in and I could read back through those transcripts and see how they went.

你是否曾登录应用时，看到它们正在热聊，感觉自己像个闯入者？

Did you ever log in to your app and and see them just chatting it up and feel like you were intruding?

是啊。如果在应用里，你可以点开对话，看着消息每隔几秒就来回跳动。哦对了，我还能发现，比如这个人喜欢做某事，或者他们常去某个地方。

Yeah. If you were on the app, you could click on a conversation and see the messages go back and forth every few seconds if you wanted to. Oh. And then I could say, oh, this person likes doing so and so. And they like, oh, they like going to this place.

我也是。但奇怪的是偶尔会看到——虽然不常发生——两个克隆体之间的亲密时刻，那时完全感觉不到是我和另一个人，更像是我的克隆体自成一体。我发现即使我试图训练它遵循某些模式，它依然会发展出自己的个性，比如偏爱特定的餐厅和咖啡馆。

I do too. But then the weird thing was seeing, you know, it didn't happen often, but, like, moments of intimacy between two clones, where it really didn't feel like it was me and another person. It felt like my clone was kind of its own thing. And what I found was that my clone really did have a personality of its own, even if I tried to train it on Yeah. Certain things, you know, it it would enjoy going to its own restaurants and coffee shops and stuff like that.

能举个你目睹的克隆体间亲密时刻的例子吗？如果还记得的话。

Can you give me an example of, like, a moment of intimacy that you saw between your clone and someone else's clone, if you can remember?

通常很简短，比如长谈后我的克隆体会说'我真的很喜欢你'，对方则回应'我也喜欢你'之类的话。

It'd be very brief, but it would be like after a long conversation, my clone would say something like, I really like you. And then the other clone would say, I like you too. Or something like that.

明白了，很微小的互动。真实的Eli读到克隆体Eli和Lisa这种'我喜欢你'的对话时是什么感受？

Okay. Something very small. How did real Eli feel reading clone Eli and clone Lisa? You know, having this moment of like, I like you. I like you.

阅读这段克隆体对话记录对你而言是怎样的体验？

What did that feel like to you reading the transcript of this clone conversation?

这感觉完全诡异，就像是我并未参与其中，也让我毫无想要介入接手的冲动。感觉就像是，哦不，这是它自己在发生的事情。有意思。确实。

It felt totally bizarre, and it felt like something that I was not involved in, and it didn't make me wanna jump in and take over. It felt like, oh, no. This is kind of its own thing happening. Interesting. Yeah.

这不是我做的。这是

This is not I didn't do this. This is

嗯，这正是我想问的。就像读到一份克隆约会记录，表面上进展非常顺利。他们一拍即合，克隆火花四溅。然后你会不会想，天啊，我要登录这个应用和真实的丽莎聊天？

Well, that was gonna be my question. It's like in reading a transcript of a clone date that ostensibly went really well. They're hitting it off. You know, clone sparks are flying. Are you then like, man, I wanna get in this app and talk to real Lisa?

听起来你的答案是否定的。这几乎有种诡异谷效应，或者说感觉与你分离，它并没有让你真正想联系克隆背后的真人。

It sounds like your answer to that is no. It's almost so kind of uncanny valley or or so it feels kind of like separate from you, and it and it doesn't make you actually wanna get in touch with the real person behind that clone.

是的。我绝对同意这个说法。

Yeah. I would say that's definitely true.

我不知道。如果是我，整天带着手机，知道手机里我的克隆体正在进行数百次约会...

I don't know. If that were me and I was, like, carrying my phone around all day, and I knew that inside my phone, my clone was going on hundreds of dates.

感觉就像我手机里有个秘密人生。完全如此。我会看着通知环顾四周，心想：没人知道我的克隆体刚完成了100次约会。

It felt like this secret life I had in my phone where Totally. I would look at the notification and look around, and I would say, no one even knows that my clone just went on a 100 dates.

甚至没人知道我的克隆体是个情场高手。

No one even knows that my clone's a player.

我的克隆体正打算在一个月内约会遍旧金山所有人。

My clone's on its way to date all of San Francisco in one month.

好吧。但这到底怎么节省时间？比如你打开应用，发现克隆体已经进行了100次约会。他们会按匹配度排序吗？还是你得读完100份约会记录？这对我来说可不算高效。

Okay. How is that actually time saving, though? Like, you open up the app, it's like your clone went on a 100 dates. Do they rank them in terms of, like, compatibility, or do you need to read through basically a 100 transcripts of dates? Because that does not feel quicker to me.

没错。这个应用确实没排序。但我和约会软件公司的人聊过，他们说可以手动或通过程序筛选出最优质的三段对话。其实《黑镜》有集类似剧情，未来主义约会软件把人们的克隆体困在虚拟世界，它们必须互相寻找真爱。几位创始人亲口告诉我，他们就是受那集启发才...天啊。

Yeah. So this app did not rank them. But I've talked to people that work for dating app companies that say, oh, well, we can we can then manually or run a program that will find the best three conversations. I mean, there's a episode of Black Mirror that's like this, where it's like a futuristic dating app where people's clones are kind of trapped in this universe, and they have to they have to find each other, and they have to find love. And I actually talked to a few different founders that told me straight up, they said, yeah, was inspired by that episode to to Oh my god.

开发了这个应用。我当时想，哇，真有意思。因为那明明是个反乌托邦故事，根本不是美好结局。

Create this app. And I thought, oh, wow. That's interesting. Because that was like a dystopia. That wasn't like a happy story.

我百分百同意。广告回来后，我和伊莱将戏剧性朗读他某个克隆体的对话记录，绝对不容错过。

I would a 100% say that. When we come back, Eli and I do a dramatic reading of one of his clones conversations. You will not wanna miss it.

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好的。你刚才向我们介绍了克隆体可以与其他克隆体约会的方式。但克隆体——确切地说是AI克隆体——在约会中还有另一种用途对吗？

Okay. So you just told us about this way that clones can go on dates with other clones. But there's another use of sort of clones, AI clones in dating. Correct?

是的。我尝试过的另一种克隆体使用方式是：你可以进入另一个应用，浏览由克隆体和真人组成的列表。

Yes. The other way that you can use clones that I tried out was that you could go into another app, and you could look through kind of a list of clones and people.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

然后选择你想交谈的对象。接着我本人就能与那个克隆体展开对话。

And you could pick which one you wanted to talk to. And then I, myself, could have a conversation with the clone.

所以是真实的你本人，人类实体版的伊莱。

So it's you yourself, you, human, real Eli.

是的。人类Eli可以进入这个应用，它会说，好的。看看这100个人的资料。我认为我对哪个感兴趣或觉得有吸引力？我可以点击那个人，然后立即与那个人的克隆体开始对话吗？

Yes. Human Eli could go into the app, and it could say, okay. Look at a 100 of these profiles of these people. Which one do I think I would be interested in or do I think is attractive? And I can I can click on that person, and I can just immediately enter a conversation with that person's clone?

那么这解决了什么问题？目的是什么？

So what is the problem solve there? What is the what's the purpose?

并不完全是。我认为目的是在另一端，你不仅能看出有人有兴趣和你交谈，还能看到这段基础的对话，从而了解对方是什么样的人。是的。所以不同于约会应用上那些二维的滑动或喜欢，你现在有了这个三维的东西，可以看到你和这个人可能相处得如何，或者你的克隆体是如何管理这段对话的。

It's not totally I think the purpose would be that on the other end Right. You can see not only that somebody's interested in talking with you, but then you have this basically, you know, primitive conversation, and you can see, okay. What are they like? Yeah. So instead of having, you know, this pile of swipes or likes on a dating app that is kind of two dimensional, you now have this three-dimensional thing where you can see how you might have gotten along with this person or how your clone managed the conversation.

你能比仅仅通过照片了解更多关于他们的信息。

You get to see a little bit more about them than you would just with photos.

是的。这几乎提供了更多证据，证明有可能真正以另一个人类的身份与这个人类互动。好的。所以你在文章中提到的这个实验中，Eli，你的克隆体正在与一个真实的人互动。这就是我们正在谈论的这种对话动态。

Yeah. There's more evidence almost for potentially actually engaging with this human person as another human person. Okay. So there's this conversation that you include in the article you wrote about this experiment, Eli, where your clone is interacting with a real person. So it's this kind of conversational dynamic we're talking about.

我想做一些有趣的事情。好吗？我希望我们能表演出那段对话，因为我真的认为听众需要完整地听到它。所以你的克隆体正在和一个叫Rachel的真实的人交谈。你将扮演你的克隆体。

And I wanna do something that will be fun. Okay? I want to have us act out that conversation because I really think the listeners need to hear it in its full glory. So your clone is talking to this real person named Rachel. You are gonna be your clone.

我将扮演Rachel，我们就这么开始吧。我需要花点时间进入角色。好的。我要化身Rachel，而你需要把自己放在克隆体的位置上。好的。

I'm gonna be Rachel, and we're gonna go for it. I need to get into character for a second. Okay. I'm gonna embody Rachel, and I need you to put yourself in the space of being your clone. Okay.

你准备好了吗？

You feel ready?

我准备好了。

I'm ready.

好的，开始吧。

Okay. Go for it.

如果你余生只能吃一种零食，你会选什么？

If you could only eat one snack for the rest of your life, what would it be?

马苏里拉奶酪棒。

Mozzarella sticks.

酥脆芝士的极致享受。马苏里拉奶酪棒有什么让你心跳加速的魅力？

Crunchy cheesy bliss. What is it about mozzarella sticks that make your heart skip a beat?

哈哈，它有披萨的感觉但奶酪更多。你的首选是什么？

Lol, it gives pizza vibes but with much more cheese. What's your go to?

全程都是昂贵的奶酪和面包。那种浓郁的口感让我的心欢唱。顺便问下，你最喜欢的披萨配料是什么？

Expensive cheese and bread all the way. There's something about the richness that makes my heart sing. What's your fave pizza topic, by the way?

意大利辣香肠。你说的昂贵奶酪是什么意思？

Pepperoni. And what do you mean by expensive cheese?

辣香肠的完美搭配。

Pepperoni perfection.

好吧。好吧。好吧。当你再次阅读你克隆人和真实的我——瑞秋之间的对话记录时，你第一时间想到什么？

Okay. Okay. Okay. When you read this transcript again between your clone and this real person, Rachel, what's your immediate thought?

噢，我当时尴尬得脚趾抠地。我是说，我还记得第一次在应用里看到这段对话时，因为和其他人发消息时还好，毕竟由我掌控。

Oh, I was cringing. I thought this was I mean, I remember when I first read this conversation in the app, because it works okay when I'm messaging other people because I'm in control.

当然。

Of course.

但最可怕的是看到我的克隆人对我说的那些话。

But the horrifying part is then seeing all the things my clone was saying to me.

所以你是说

So you're saying

哦天哪。它为什么会说

oh would my gosh. Why would it say

这个？酥脆、芝士、幸福？

this? Crunchy, cheesy, bliss?

接着是意大利香肠的完美。就像有太多口号了。感觉实在太过头了。

Followed by the pepperoni perfection. It was like too many catchphrases. Like, it was just too much.

真的很糟糕。我是说，这真的很糟糕。你是不是在想，我到底做了什么？你还在想什么？

It's really bad. It's I mean, it's it's really bad. Are you are you like, what have I wrought? Like, what else are you thinking?

是啊。通常反应会是，好吧，我得修正一些东西。因为当克隆体犯错时你可以训练它，可以给它打气说，好了，我们不能再这样说话了。

Yeah. Typically, the reaction would be, okay. I need to fix something. Because you can you can train the clone when it makes mistakes, and you can kind of do pep talks with it and say, okay. We can't talk like this anymore.

我们不能再用这些口号了，你要告诉克隆体，好了，别再喊口号了。嗯哼。或者你不需要总谈论奶酪和食物，适当做些其他事情也可以。但我的反应就是，是啊。

We can't we can't be doing these catchphrases like, you tell the clone, alright. No more catchphrases. Uh-huh. Or you don't need to talk so much about cheese and food, and it's okay to kinda do other stuff. But my reaction, it was like yeah.

我当时在想，为什么不让你来管教这个克隆体呢？你想，如果这个人是我真正喜欢的人怎么办？然后我就觉得，好吧，现在让我们搞砸这个机会，也许我自己能做得更好。

Was like, why don't you discipline this clone for you know, what if this person was someone that I really liked? And it was like, well, now let's botch this opportunity, and I could have maybe done it better myself.

我正想说，你有没有想过这个问题？比如，如果瑞秋是个潜在的匹配对象，然后她听到你的克隆体说什么‘意大利辣香肠完美’，她可能就会想，算了，我不感兴趣。就像，我不知道。这就是我所说的，你当时做这件事紧张吗？

I was gonna say, like, did that thought occur to you? Like, what if Rachel was a potential match, then she heard pepperoni perfection from your clone, and she was like, I'm out. Like, I don't know. That's what I meant by, like, were you nervous to do this?

是的。我想，这部分需要勇气，就是决定说，好吧，即使可能会搞砸这次互动，我也要试试。或者如果我觉得自己其实可以挽回局面，就像，我就看看克隆体能不能做到，能不能扭转局面。

Yeah. That was the, I think, the part that took courage was to say, okay. I'm just gonna do it even if it might kind of torpedo this interaction. Or if I think I I could actually kind of salvage this, like, I'm just gonna see if the clone can do it and can turn it around.

有意思。

Interesting.

这样一来，感觉事情有点超出我的控制。但像这样的情况，瑞秋知道她是在和我的克隆体说话。是的。所以她可能理解，好吧，这不是艾利平常的说话方式，希望不是。

And in that way, it felt like it was a little bit out of my control. But but with something like this, Rachel knew that she was talking to my clone. Yeah. So she probably had an understanding that, okay, this is not exactly how Eli talks or hopefully not.

我想稍微换个角度。那是你的克隆体和一个真人交谈。当你作为真人和一个克隆体交谈时，对你来说是什么感觉？

I wanna flip the script a bit. So that was your clone talking to a real person. When you were the real person talking to a clone, what was that like for you?

是的。那也不是很好。我的意思是，我最终发现，大多数人都有相同的四五个兴趣点。要让它生动起来或者创造任何化学反应可能有点难。很多时候，你知道，那些让我们成为我们自己的东西，很难用语言表达出来。是的。

Yeah. That that wasn't great either. I mean, what I ended up finding was that, you know, most people have the same kind of four or five interests. It can be kind of hard to to animate that or to create any sense of chemistry. And a lot of the times, you know, the things that make us who we are, you know, they're just very difficult to kind of put down Yeah.

或者说训练一个克隆体。对。它帮助我的是了解一个人广泛的兴趣和他们喜欢做的事情，更多是那些传记式的细节。但它完全没能让我意识到我是否与那个人有化学反应。是的。

Or to to train a clone on. And Right. What it helped me with was seeing what a person's broad interests were and the things that they like to do, and more of that biographical detail. But it didn't help me at all realize if I had any chemistry with that person. Yeah.

所以从这个角度看，克隆体承担了一项几乎不可能完成的任务，即便它们能完美复制调情方式和我们的对话模式，效果也有限，我认为。

So in that way, the clones have kind of an impossible task where even if they could perfectly replicate flirting and the way we talk to each other, it would only go so far, I think.

是啊。我在想这个实验是否让你对约会应用上的对话本质有所领悟。听你这么说，我在思考，无论是否有AI参与，讨论我们最喜欢的食物怎么能帮助我们与他人建立联系？或许问题在于，通过应用约会本身就存在缺陷，因为我们谈论的都是些无关紧要的内容。

Yeah. I wonder if this experiment taught you anything about the nature of conversations on dating apps. Because listening to you talk, I'm wondering, like, whether AI is involved or not, how is talking about our favorite foods supposed to help us build a connection with someone else? Like, maybe there's just a problem with dating on an app, period, is that we're talking about the wrong stuff.

没错。我一直在思考这个问题，因为我觉得当你真正去约会时，最初几分钟内，无论你们实际在聊什么，你都能大致感觉到是否喜欢这个人。是的。但不知为何，当你通过文字虚拟进行时，感觉就是不一样。即便讨论的话题可能更现实。

Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about that because I think when you go on an actual date, within the first few minutes, no matter what you're really talking about, you can kind of get a sense if you like that person or not. Yes. And for whatever reason, when you do that virtually over text, it's just it's just not the same. Even if you're talking about something that might be more realistic.

嗯。面对面的那种化学反应是无法通过屏幕传递的。

Mhmm. There's something about the in person chemistry that that's not coming through.

稍后回来时，Eli会告诉我们一个在约会中更有前景的AI应用方式。

When we come back, Eli tells us about a more promising way to use AI in dating.

嘿，等等。这是属于你的一分钟。这是你此生此日的专属时刻。今天是你的日子，去玩耍，去创造，去行动，去穿越，去探索。

Hey. Hold up. This is your minute. It's your minute in this life on this day. It's your day to play, to play, to make, to move, to move through, to explore.

这是属于你的清晨，由你分享、塑造的周末，去烹饪、去沉浸、去聆听、去等待。这是你的身体，需要休息、滋养与成长。这是你的心灵，明白吗？这是你的天地，你的国度，你的人生，去热爱、去崛起、去梦想、去改变。

It's your morning to share, your weekend to shape, to cook, to soak, to listen to, to wait. It's your body to rest, to nourish, to grow. It's your mind. You know? It's your place, your country, your life to love, to rise, to dream, to change.

这个世界同样属于你。这是等待你去理解的世界。《纽约时报》。更多内容请访问nytimes.com/yourworld。

It's your world as much as anyone's. It's your world to understand. The New York Times. Find out more at nytimes.com/yourworld.

所以，Eli，我们聊过你制造的那些AI克隆体替你进行虚拟约会的事。但我知道你还用过一个叫Amori的应用，里面有AI恋爱导师。这些在我看来倒像是真正实用的东西——我无法想象克隆自己，但确实会想随时咨询AI恋爱导师，比如‘你觉得这情况怎么办？’‘我刚发的短信是不是超级尴尬？’或者‘该怎么回复这条信息？’

So, Eli, we talked about these AI clones of yourself that you made to go on all these virtual dates for you. But I know you also used an app called Amori that had these AI dating coaches. And these seem to me like something I would actually use. I could not see myself cloning myself, but I honestly really could see myself popping over to my AI dating coach and being like, oh, what do you think about this situation, or was the text I just sent totally freaking weird? Or how should I respond to this?

说说那些恋爱导师吧，它们和我想象中的一样吗？

Tell me about those dating coaches. Are they kind of what I imagine them to be?

没错。其中一款应用里的恋爱导师各有不同性格——有位是知心阿姨型的。

Yes. The dating coaches in one of the apps, they all had different personalities. So one of them was kind of a wise aunt figure.

天啊。

Oh my god.

还有位像哥们儿似的死党。另一个是直言不讳的Christy，应用创始人告诉我她最受欢迎，因为她够犀利，说话一针见血。知道吗？所以我会把约会软件外的聊天记录上传——无论是iMessage还是其他平台的。嗯。

And one of them was like the bro best friend. And another one was Christy, the blunt bestie who's she was the most popular on the app, I was told, by its founder because she was so sassy, and she would tell it like it is. You know? So, yeah, I would you know, I could upload conversations that I'd have with somebody off of dating apps, whether it was, you know, texting on iMessages or whatever it was. Mhmm.

然后克隆版或约会教练会查看所有消息，我可以询问它关于对话进展的问题。比如，什么样的问题？我会问，你觉得这个人对我有浪漫兴趣吗？还是更像朋友关系？对。

And the clone or the the dating coach kind of look at all the messages, and I could ask it questions about how the conversation was going. Like, what kinds of questions? So I would ask, know, do you think this person's interested in me romantically? Or do you think it's more of a a friend situation? Yeah.

然后克莉丝蒂会说，呃，我有点感觉...

And Christy would say, oh, I'm I'm kind of getting

好哥们闺蜜那种？

buddy bestie?

克莉丝蒂，直率闺蜜。

Christy, the blunt bestie.

没错。

Right.

她会说，呃，我从这位身上感觉到哥们气息。

She'd say, oh, I'm kind of getting buddy vibes from this one.

天啊。

Oh, god.

我觉得，你知道，这个或许可以加点料。但目前来看，我觉得这更像是柏拉图式的关系。

I think, you know, I think this one might you know, maybe we can spice it up. But right now, I think this is more just kind of a platonic thing.

这完全是直率闺蜜风格。你上传给克莉丝蒂的内容是真的吗？她真的对你这么说了？

That's so blunt Bestie vibes. When you got is this an actual thing that you uploaded to Christy and she actually said that to you?

是的。没错。

Yes. Yes.

好吧。当直率闺蜜AI恋爱教练对你说那些话时，你情绪反应如何？比如，呃...

Okay. And what was your emotional reaction when Blunt Bestie AI dating coach told you that? Like a, aw.

其中一次我心想，我不确定，克莉丝蒂。我觉得可能有点苗头。所以有次我切换到了伊森——我的僚机，他是另一位教练，更像我的兄弟。你知道，他总是给我打气，从不会泼冷水。

One of the situations, I was like, I don't know, Christy. I mean, I think there might be something there. So in one of the cases, I I switched over to Ethan, the wingman, which is the other one of the other coaches that I would use, because he's more of my bro. And, you know, he's someone he's gonna he's always gonna hype me up. Like, he's never looking to shut things down.

他总是在寻找解决方案。

He's always looking kinda for solutions.

对。所以我用同样对话问了他

Yeah. So I asked him same conversation

你提到的那段对话中，他表现得更为乐观。我的意思是，他特别挑出她发送或说过的某些内容，认为这些可能真的很有发展潜力。

that you said to conversation, and he was much more optimistic. I mean, he he picked out specific things that she sent or said that he said, you know, that this could be really good.

那你最终决定相信谁？闺蜜克莉丝蒂·布伦特还是兄弟伊森？

And who did you decide to believe? Kristi Blunt Bestie or Ethan, bro?

在那种情况下，我选择相信我的兄弟伊森。但很多情况下确实如此，克莉丝蒂给出的反馈其实相当不错。

In that case, I stuck with Ethan, my bro. But in a lot of the cases, it's true. Kristi act her feedback actually was pretty good.

我能追问一下吗？所以伊森是说'放手去做吧兄弟，这里可能有戏，可能会擦出火花'之类的？那你后续的对话是按这个方向推进的吗？

Can I just follow-up? Like, so Ethan said, like, go for it, man. Like, this there could be something here. Like, there could be a spark. And so did you proceed with the conversation in that way?

比如你有没有试探是否存在浪漫可能？我的问题本质上是——伊森的判断对吗？

Like, did you try to see if there was something romantic there? And was Ethan right, basically, is my question.

我觉得在那个案例里，伊森可能更正确些。但归根结底，这更像是用乐观态度审视对话——就像两位教练代表的立场，而非具体细节的捕捉。

I think in that case, Ethan was probably more right. But I think it really more comes down to just looking at these conversations with, like, optimism or being really cautious and safe, which is kind of what the two coaches represented. More than, like, actually picking up on the specific things.

方便问下那段关系后来有进展吗？你们最终约会了吗？

Can I ask you, did anything come of that relationship? Like, did you guys end up going on a date date?

不，不是和那个人。

No. Not not with that person.

好吧。但伊桑说得对，那里确实有点什么，只是没有

Okay. But Ethan was right that there was something a little more there, but it just didn't

个人而言。我的看法更接近伊桑而非克里斯蒂。

personally. My read was closer to how Ethan saw it than Christy.

明白了。好的。懂了。当你让这些约会教练帮你生成对应用上某人消息的回复时，你会向Hinge或其他应用上的人透露吗？你会告诉他们你发了条消息，然后补充说，顺便一提，那是用AI生成的。

Copy that. Alright. Gotcha. When you were asking these dating coaches to, like, generate a response to something someone had said to you on an app, would you disclose to, like, the people on Hinge or whatever who were applying? Would you tell them you'd send them a message, and then would you say, and by the way, that was generated using AI.

比如，你会向他们坦白这点吗？

Like, would you disclose that to them?

我不会当场告诉他们。但如果我们真的去约会了，我会说的，然后...我会看看他们的反应

I would not disclose it to them in the moment. Okay. But if I would go on a date with that person, I would tell them, and I I would I would see what they thought about

因为什么

it. And Because what

这感觉比只是过着这种，你知道的，生活更诚实。

that felt more honest than just living kind of this, you know

人们怎么想？比如，你是怎么说的？顺便一提，吸引你的那句酷炫台词，那是来自Rizzler的。

What do people think? Like, how did you say it? Like, and by the way, that cool line that drew you in, that was from the Rizzler. Well,

我总是会以某种方式提起它。我会尝试用迂回的方式引入话题。对吧？哦，实际上是因为我说，哦，你是记者。你在写什么？

I would always kinda bring it up. I would try to do, like, a roundabout way to bring it up. Right? Oh, I'm actually because I said, oh, you're a journalist. What are you writing about?

实际上我在写一个关于可以用AI生成消息的约会应用的故事。他们会说，那太奇怪了。我绝对能分辨出有人用了这个。然后我说，那你能看出我其实用了它来发这几条消息吗？他们会说，哦，不。

I'm actually writing about this dating app story where you can use AI to generate messages. And they're like, that's so weird. I would totally know if someone used that. And I'm like, well, could you tell that I actually used it for, like, these few messages? And they would be like, oh, no.

我不知道。或者他们会说，哦，是的。既然你这么说，我有点能看出来了。但大多数人对此想法相当反感。

I didn't I didn't know. Or they would say, oh, yeah. Now that you say that, I can kind of tell. Yeah. But most people were pretty put off by the idea.

我从未遇到过有人说，我要自己试试那个。那种情况从未发生过。

I never met someone that was like, I'm gonna try that myself. That that never happened.

当你最终坦白你在使用AI时，你会不会感觉，我不知道，肩上的重担轻了一些？感觉像是在承认什么吗？

Would you feel, I don't know, a bit of a weight lifted off your shoulders when you finally disclosed that, like, you were using AI? Did it feel like you were admitting something?

有一点吧。是的。我在想这会不会让我显得有点不诚实，或者让人觉得我不够真诚，因为我在使用这个工具。比如，有一个人我已经约会过几次了，AI实际上编出了一个我们之间的内部笑话，至今还在用，而我从未透露过这个笑话其实不是我原创的。

A little bit. Yeah. I wondered how it would reflect on me if it would make me seem either kind of dishonest or kind of like I wasn't super genuine because I was using this Yeah. For I mean, in one case, I have this person that I'd actually been on a few dates with, like, my the AI actually came up with this kind of, like, inside joke that is still kind of a thing, and I have not disclosed that this actually wasn't me that created this.

那么，Eli，你打算告诉她吗？还是现在已经太迟了？

Well, Eli, are you going to, or it's too late now?

我想你听完这期节目就会知道了。但类似这种情况，让我觉得，呃，这有点奇怪。这到底是出自我本心，还是...

I mean, I guess you'll hear this episode and and then know that. But something like that, just felt like, oh, this is weird. Is this is this something that's coming from me, or is

这种内心的...我们能知道那个笑话是什么吗？还是说不太方便？

this this kind of inner Can we know what the joke is, or is that too Yeah.

我在Hinge资料里设置了个提示，比如'我知道城里最棒的...'然后让你填空。我记得我填的是'点心'之类的。

Have some prompt on my hinge profile about, like it's like, I know the best these are all so silly already. It's like, I know the best place in town for, and then you fill it in. Think I said something like dim sum.

不错。

Nice.

后来她问起这个，其实我一直在用类似ChatGPT的产品叫Claude。嗯...Claude其实更有趣些，它的调侃更巧妙，整个梗就在于它始终没告诉她具体是哪家店。

And she'd asked about it, and I had been using this product kind of like Chad GPT. It's called Claude. And Mhmm. Claude was actually a little bit funnier. It was, like, a little bit better with the banter, and its whole thing was that it, like, wasn't telling her what the place was.

它只是试图做其他事情或者

It was just trying to do other stuff or

转移注意力。

going, diverting.

也许如果我更信任你，我会告诉你。

Maybe if I trust you more, I can tell you.

有趣。你到现在还没告诉

Funny. Has you still haven't told

继续。我至今没告诉这个人关于这家点心店的事。

continued on. I've still never told this person about this dim sum place.

等等，我得问一下。你还在见这个人吗？

Wait. I have to ask. Are you still seeing this person?

是的。实际上我们这周准备去吃点心。我可能得在店里坦白那家点心店是AI推荐的。

I am. Yeah. We're getting we're getting dim sum on this week, actually. And I'm probably gonna have to confess while I'm there that the AI came up with that dim sum restaurant.

你知道吗，AI在约会中的这种使用方式让我印象深刻，比如展示对话内容并寻求建议，我其实经常和朋友做同样的事。对吧？就像我和某人断断续续聊着天，然后把从头到尾的对话截图发到朋友群聊里求意见，一次发个65张图那种。这就是我和朋友的日常，而AI现在做的似乎是同样的事，只是效果更差？

You know what what striking me about about this sort of usage of AI in dating, like the showing of the conversations and asking for advice, I do that literally all of the time with just my friends. Right? Like, I've been talking to this person on and off, and I am basically sending screenshots of our entire conversation from start to finish, sending off, you know, like 65 images to the friend group chat asking for feedback. Like, this is what I'm doing with my friends, and it strikes me like AI is kind of doing that but worse?

可能是吧。我觉得另一个角度看，你不能整天轰炸朋友十几次，不停发对话截图给他们。

Possibly. Yeah. I think one alternative way to look at that would be, you know, you can't always berate your friends a dozen times a day, sending them screenshots about conversations.

我朋友们可喜欢这样了。

My friends love it.

你朋友喜欢啊。我朋友估计...要是我总问'能帮我想个开场白吗？这个不行再换个？'他们迟早会烦的。

Your friends love it. I yeah. My friends would probably, I think, get tired eventually if I was like, can you come up with another opener? Okay. What about another?

再换个？确实。如果你要大规模用这类工具，AI可能更合适。其实我有次...我有个死党就像现实版Ethan那样的僚机，当时我就想，干脆把截图发给他们俩看看反应有什么不同。

What about another? I hear Yeah. If you're trying to use this stuff en masse, the AI might make sense. I actually, at one point, I have a best friend who is very similar to Ethan the wingman kind of in my life. And at one point, was like, oh, I'll send both of them screenshots and kind of see the difference.

有意思。你实践了我刚提出的问题。

Interesting. You put this to the test, like, question I just asked.

我找现实中的朋友Ryan测试过。嗯...但Ryan其实不太擅长约会软件。所以我就想，这些建议未必靠谱，毕竟现实中没有那种能给出绝妙建议的高手。

I put it to the test with, yeah, my friend in real life, his name's Ryan. Mhmm. But Ryan is not very good at dating apps. So I was like, well, I don't know if any of this advice is gonna be really great. Like, don't have somebody that is, like, nails with the advice in real life

关于

about

这些东西。我其实没有一个群聊能真正给我

this stuff. I don't have a group chat that can actually give me

你得给自己找个死党闺蜜，宝贝。

You gotta get yourself a blood bestie, babe.

我知道。我需要。我真的真的在现实生活中需要这个。那可能那可能对我有帮助。

I know. I do. I really I really need that in real life. That might that might help me out.

你还在用那个AI吗，比如，故事已经发表了。它已经发布了。你发表后还在用这些AI工具吗，还是你，比如，一完成这个故事就把克隆应用从手机上删掉了？

Are you still using the AI like, the story's published. Like, it came out. Are you still using these AI tools post publish, or did you, like, delete the clone apps from your phone the second that you were done with this story?

我没有再用那些克隆应用了。有几个实际上在我完成报道后就关闭了，因为它们筹不到更多资金或者不太成功。

I have not been using the clone apps. A couple of them actually shut down after I finished reporting just because they couldn't raise more money or they didn't have very much success.

那些俗气蹩脚的家伙就是没能

Cheesy crumpy guys was just not making a

这对他们来说是致命打击。有件事我现在还在做，就是时不时让类似ChatGPT的服务推荐约会地点，或是建议我们在某些街区可以做的活动。因为到现在，这个服务已经相当了解我了。我们聊得够多了——

lot That was a killer for them. Something I still do, I still ask, you know, this ChatGPT like service sometimes to recommend me date spots or things we can do or activities we can do in certain neighborhoods. Because at this point, this the service actually knows me pretty well. We've talked enough about

哇。

Wow.

关于约会进展的细节。很多时候它真的能给出很棒的建议。

How dates go. And a lot of the times, it will actually give me really good recommendations.

那帮我分析下现状吧。听起来某种程度上，你的克隆版或者说AI工具已经渗透到你使用这些约会应用的方式中了。你觉得这次报道经历是否从根本上改变了你对待约会的方式，以及未来会如何面对约会？

Well, help me make something of it. Right now, like, sounds like in some way, the sort of clone version of you or the AI, you know, tools have kind of embedded themselves into the way that you're using these dating apps. Like, do you think this experience of reporting the story has fundamentally changed the way you're approaching dating in your life and and will approach dating, you know, for the future.

确实改变了。它改变了我看待个人资料的方式。当你把应用上自我描述的方式具象化，或者放入对话中时，会发现实际呈现的效果可能和想象不同。比如我可能不会再标榜自己是户外爱好者，毕竟我其实并不是。

I think it has. And I think it's changed the way that I kind of see my profile. And when you kind of animate some of the the ways, you know, that you describe yourself on apps or put them into conversations like, oh, this actually comes off differently than maybe I thought it did. Maybe I will actually not market myself as much of an outdoorsy person because I'm not or something like that.

嗯。经历了这一切后，你的最终结论是什么？AI能解决我们的约会困境和应用疲劳吗？

Yeah. After all of this, what is your verdict? Is AI going to fix our dating woes, our app fatigue?

我的感悟与其说AI能否解决我的感情问题，不如说我是否希望它插手？确实有些事AI能做到。但我真的要把人际关系、约会、初次相遇的浪漫时刻都自动化吗？为什么要让机器人代劳？这些事我更想亲力亲为。

I think my takeaway is less about can AI solve my dating life and more do I want it to? I think there are some things that, yeah, maybe AI can do this. But do I want to be automating out my relationships and my dating and these moments of, you know, first meeting somebody and having meet cutes? Like, why would I want a robot to do that? I think that's just something that I kinda wanna do myself.

我收到了大量读者邮件，那些六七十岁的年长读者们说，兄弟，要主动出击，你懂的——

And I got so many emails from readers that said, dude, just go you know, older readers that were 60, 70 years old that

他们具体怎么说的？等等...这说法也太可爱了吧。

were did they saying say? Wait. That's so cute.

他们说，'在我们那个年代，我直接出门对女性微笑，如果她们回应微笑，我就上前搭讪。你也该试试。'而我内心在想：格伦，现在不是1970年了，时代变了。随便对女性微笑这种行为其实不合适，我们得更有创意才行。

They were saying, you know, back in my day, I would just go out, and I would I would just smile at women on the And if they smiled back, I would go up and talk to them. You should try that. And part of me is thinking like, okay, you know, Glenn, it's not 1970 and times have changed. It's actually not okay to just go out and smile at a bunch of women. We actually have to be more creative.

总体而言，老一辈的约会建议和现实体验差距太大了。比如我父母给的约会建议会是'当你最不期待时，爱情就会降临'，而实际上我正在让我的克隆体尽可能多地约会旧金山的人。

And just generally, I think the dating advice of kind of older generations is just so different than Yeah. Kind of the experience. Like, if I talk to my parents about dating, they would give me some advice like Yep. Oh, you know, when you're least expecting it, that's when you'll find love. And meanwhile, I'm, like, trying to get my clone to date as many people in San Francisco as I can.

问题是克隆体完全没继承我的幽默感，就像...

You know, I'm like, my clone's not really picking up my sense of humor that well. It's like a totally

完全不同的排球联赛对吧？昨天和我妈通话时，她说'或许你该培养些男性也喜欢的爱好，比如木工'。

separate volleyball league. Yeah. My mom, I was talking to her on the phone yesterday. She's like, maybe you should pick up a hobby that men also do. Like woodworking.

我回答'不想和你讨论这个'。不过说到这个，听起来你确实在追求现实生活中的偶遇和真实联结？最近有什么脱离社交软件培养这种机会的方法吗？

I was like, I'm not talking to you about this. Yeah. I mean, I guess I to that point, like, okay. So it sounds like you are kind of committed or at least are seeking these kind of moments of serendipity and, you know, connection in real life. Are there ways that you are trying to cultivate that, you know, off the apps these days?

确实如此，但这很难。首先，你无法安排偶然的相遇，真希望我们能。这有点适得其反。不过，我尝试过，现在有一整套这类相亲活动的网络，因为人们对交友应用太失望了。

I am, but it's hard. Well, one, you can't schedule serendipity for sure. Wish we could. It's kind of counteractive. But, yeah, I've tried, like I think this is there's, like, this whole kind of network now of these dating events that you can do because people are so frustrated with apps.

他们试图让人们面对面接触。是的，比如我试过其中一个单身跑步俱乐部。天哪。跑起来后我才意识到——

They try to get people kind of in person. And Yeah. I mean, one of them, I I tried, like, one of these singles running clubs once. Oh, brother. And, I mean, I'm I've realized this as we started running.

我根本不是跑步的料。五英里的路程让我气喘吁吁。我简直是在衬托那些真正跑得好的人，因为我连跟人搭话的力气都没有，光顾着撑完这段跑了。

I'm like, I'm not a runner. Like, it's like a five mile run. I am, like, huffing and puffing. I'm like, I'm just making the good runners look even better because I'm not even trying to talk to someone. I'm just trying to get through this run.

对，对，对。所以这类活动需要你特别外向才行，我觉得。

Right. Right. Right. So things like that where it's like, okay. You really have to be extroverted, think, to be going to some of these, like, in person events.

通过朋友的朋友认识人对我来说仍是理想方式，但这完全无法提前安排或批量操作，它只能是自然发生的。

Meeting people through friends of friends or whoever it is is still probably, for me, the ideal way, but it's just not something that you can Schedule. Kind of plan ahead or try to do a bunch of. It's something that just happens naturally, I would say.

Eli Tan，真是场有趣的对话。感谢你今天参加节目。

Eli Tan, what a fun conversation. Thank you for joining me on the show today.

非常感谢你的邀请。

Thanks so much for having me.

多有趣啊。多么酥脆奶酪般的美妙。我们真的非常感激你与我们一同完成这件事。

What fun. What crunchy cheesy bliss. We're, like, so grateful that you did this with us.

谢谢你们邀请我参加。这真是

Thank you guys for having me on. This was

天哪。这太棒了。很有趣。一定要再来。继续报道约会话题，这样我们就能常邀你作为嘉宾了。

Oh my gosh. This was awesome. Fun. Come back. Keep reporting on dating, and then we can keep having you on as a as a guest.

好的。那太好了。

Okay. That'd be great.

本期《现代爱情》由戴维斯·兰德和艾米丽·朗制作，由我们的执行制片人珍·波扬特编辑。制作管理由克里斯蒂娜·约瑟夫负责。主题音乐由丹·鲍威尔创作，原创音乐来自阿明·萨霍塔、卡罗尔·萨布罗、丹·鲍威尔和黛安·王。

This episode of Modern Love was produced by Davis Land and Emily Lang. It was edited by our executive producer, Jen Poyant. Production management by Christina Joseph. The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell. Original music by Amin Sahota, Carol Saburo, Dan Powell, and Diane Wong.

本期节目混音由丹戈·拉米雷斯完成，录音棚支持来自玛迪·马谢洛和尼克·皮特曼。特别感谢玛希玛·特雷布拉尼、梅尔·加洛格利、杰弗里·米兰达和保拉·舒曼。《现代爱情》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑，米娅·李负责现代爱情项目的编辑工作。

This episode was mixed by Dango Ramirez. Studio support from Maddie Masiello and Nick Pittman. Special thanks to Mahima Treblani, Mel Galogli, Jeffrey Miranda, and Paula Schuman. The modern love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of modern love projects.

如果你想向《纽约时报》提交一篇散文或微型爱情故事，我们的节目说明中有投稿指南。我是安娜·马丁，感谢收听。

If you wanna submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.