如何让爱常驻，来自《为性而死》的罗布·德兰尼

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完美肌肤从这里开始。访问clinique.com了解更多信息。

Great skin starts here. Visit clinique.com to learn more.

现在相爱，你坠入

Love now and You fall in

昨晚的爱。爱你。爱比任何事物都强大。为了爱。爱。

love last night. Love you. Love is stronger than anything. For the love. Love.

他们爱你胜过一切。

And they love you more than anything.

爱。还有爱。爱。

Love. There's still love. Love.

来自《纽约时报》，我是安娜·马丁。这是《现代爱情》。今天的嘉宾是演员兼作家罗布·德莱尼。

From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. My guest today is actor and writer Rob Delaney.

我一生中最美好的事情发生在我担任纽约哈德逊酒店行李员的时候，大概是在二月份。我撞到了出口标志，周围没人。我有一把结实的大酒店雨伞，我就想，我为什么不砸烂那个出口标志呢？

The best thing that ever happened in my whole life was when I was a bellboy at the Hudson Hotel in New York Yeah. In the year February, let's say. And I hit my head on an exit sign, and nobody was around. And I had a big strong hotel umbrella, and I was like, why don't I murder that exit sign?

如你所知，我们的节目讲述的是与他人亲近所带来的混乱。罗布是一个不回避混乱或痛苦的人。他能在其中找到幽默。

As you know, our show is about the messiness that comes with getting close to other people. And Rob, he's someone who doesn't shy away from mess or pain. He finds the humor in it.

于是我就用雨伞砸向出口标志，金属的出口面板像忍者飞镖一样飞了出去，在我鼻梁上划了一道深深的口子。这就是即时的因果报应。我一边流血一边大笑，想着，这不是很有趣吗？

And so I hit the exit sign with the umbrella, and the metal exit faceplate flew off like a ninja star and cut me badly on the bridge of my nose. Immediate karma. And I just was laughing and bleeding thinking, isn't that funny?

和很多人一样，我第一次接触罗布·德莱尼是因为他的剧集《灾难》。他和莎伦·霍根一起创作、编剧并主演了这部剧。他们在剧中饰演的虚构角色也叫罗布和莎伦，是一对毫不掩饰缺点的夫妻，连性爱场面也不例外。

Like a lot of people, my first encounter with Rob Delaney was his show Catastrophe. He and Sharon Horgan created, wrote, and starred in it together. And their fictional characters, who are also named Rob and Sharon, are a pretty warts and all couple on the show, including in their sex scenes.

我们从来不想让它显得性感。我们希望它是混乱而急切的。那种动物性的需求，但又很尴尬。而且看我模拟和女性做爱常常很好笑，因为看起来像不同物种，因为我体型大太多了。

We never wanted it to be sexy. We wanted it to be, like, messy and frantic. There's, like, you know, the animal need, but it's awkward. Also watching me simulate sex with a human woman is often funny because it looks like different species because I'm so much larger.

德莱尼和霍根让他们的角色经历了电视上我见过最不浪漫、但非常真实又搞笑的性爱场面。但他们也处理了成瘾、失去和悲伤等严肃主题。在罗布拍摄《灾难》期间，他自己也经历了失去。他的儿子亨利不幸因脑瘤去世，年仅两岁半。罗布在他的回忆录《一颗工作的心》中写到了失去亨利的经历。

Delaney and Horgan put their characters through some of the most unromantic and, I'd argue, pretty realistic, hilarious sex scenes I've ever seen on TV. But they also tackled serious subject matter like addiction, loss, and grief. While Rob was working on catastrophe, he suffered his own loss. His son, Henry, tragically died of a brain tumor at just two and a half years old. Rob wrote about losing Henry in his memoir, A Heart That Works.

他说他想通过讲述自己的经历来消除对悲伤的污名化。我之所以提到他生活的这一部分，是因为知道这些让我在观看他在FX剧集《为性而死》中的表演时，感受到了更深层次的共鸣。这部剧让你非常贴近死亡。《为性而死》刚刚获得了多项艾美奖提名，包括罗布的最佳男配角提名。而主演该剧的米歇尔·威廉姆斯获得了最佳女主角提名。

He said he wanted to destigmatize grief by speaking out about what he'd been through. And I'm bringing this part of his life up because knowing this added a whole other level of depth for me when I watched his performance in the FX series Dying for Sex. It's a show that takes you very close to mortality. Dying for sex just received several Emmy nominations, including a best supporting actor nomination for Rob. And Michelle Williams, who stars in the show, got a best actress nomination.

米歇尔饰演莫莉，一个患有晚期癌症的女人，她剩下的时间不多。于是她踏上了一段旅程，去体验她生命中严重缺失的所有性和快感。罗布饰演一个无意中成为英雄的角色，帮助她发现自我的新维度。

Michelle plays Molly. She's a woman with terminal cancer, and she doesn't have much time left. So she goes on this mission to have all the sex and experience all the pleasure that's been sorely missing from her life. Rob plays a kind of unwitting hero, helping her discover these new dimensions of herself.

你从中得到了什么吗？

Are you getting anything out of it?

有啊。当你看着我，而我正好给了你你想要的，你看我的眼神就像你非常想要我。

Yeah. The way you look at me when I give you exactly what you want. You look at me like you want me so much.

我能说你的眼睛真的很迷人吗？我知道大声说出来很糟糕，对不起，但它们真的很迷人。你真的不吃这些饼干吗？因为如果你不吃，我会把它们全吃掉。

Can I just say that your eyes are mesmerizing? And I know that sucks to say out loud. I'm sorry, but they are. Are you really not gonna eat these cookies? Because if you don't, I will eat all of them.

广告之后，我和罗布·德莱尼聊了聊，当我们愿意向对方展示真实的自己时，我们会获得什么。他还朗读了一篇现代爱情散文，讲述一对情侣为了保持新鲜感而尝试角色扮演的故事。别走开。

After the break, I talked to Rob Delaney about what we gain when we're willing to bear our true messy selves to someone else. And he reads a modern love essay about a couple who tried a little role play to keep from getting too comfortable with one another. Stay with us.

保罗·梅斯卡尔和乔什·奥康纳主演《声音的历史》，一部跨越数十年和大陆的宏大而温柔的爱情片。1917年的波士顿，一次在钢琴酒吧的偶遇让两名学生踏上了前往缅因州偏远地区的民歌采集之旅，并展开了一段将永远改变他们人生的恋情。9月12日部分影院上映，9月19日全面上映。访问mubi.com/historyofsound购票。这就是mubi.com/historyofsound。

Paul Mescal and Josh O'Connor star in the history of sound, a sweeping and tender romance that spans decades and continents. In 1917 Boston, a chance encounter in a piano bar leads two students to a folk song collecting trip through the backwoods of Maine and an ensuing love affair that will change both their lives forever. In select theaters, September 12 and theaters everywhere, September 19. Visit mubi.com/historyofsound to get tickets. That's mubi.com/historyofsound.

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今天就访问wayfair.com，选购精心策划的轻松实惠秋季焕新系列。那就是wayfair.com。Wayfair。每种风格，每个家。

Head to wayfair.com today to shop curated collections of easy, affordable fall updates. That's wayfair.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home.

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成就不同。

Make the difference.

Rob Delaney，欢迎来到《现代爱情》。

Rob Delaney, welcome to Modern Love.

谢谢。非常感谢。

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Rob，我想和你聊聊。我觉得你的职业生涯似乎建立在扮演那些迷人却又相当混乱的角色上。我说的是情感上的混乱，也包括有时身体上的混乱。你在《为性而死》里的角色，我们见面时他脸上还滴着墨西哥卷饼的汁水。你觉得这符合你吗？

Rob, I wanna run something by you. I feel like you've kind of built your career on playing these charming people who are also pretty messy. And I'm talking emotionally messy, but I'm also talking sometimes physically messy. Your character in Dying For Sex, we'll talk about we meet him with burrito juice just dripping down his face. Does this track for you?

你会被混乱吸引吗？

Are you drawn to to mess?

你知道，可能是因为大家最初看到我的作品是一部我共同创作并制作的剧叫《灾难》。嗯。虽然它不是自传，但确实展现了我个性中的一些真实侧面。我想人们看到了这一点。你也知道好莱坞那帮人，他们会说，哦，他就演这个。

You know, it's gotta be due to the fact that the first thing anyone ever saw me in was a show that I co wrote and produced myself called Catastrophe Mhmm. Which was not autobiographical, but it did certainly show some real facets of of my own personality. And I think people saw that. And you know how people are in Hollywood. They're like, oh, that's what he does.

所以他们让我演一些角色，我觉得那些角色展现了脆弱和人性，我希望，还有幽默感。所以我想我算是……我本想说自掘坟墓，但不如说，自己铺的床。完全正确。

So so so they would put me in stuff, I think, that showed a vulnerability and a and a humanity, I hope, and often a sense of humor. So I think I sort of I was gonna say dug my own grave. But let's say, made my own bed. Totally totally.

你那乱糟糟的床。不过，虽然床整理好了，但你是否享受身处那种混乱、脆弱的空间？

Your messy bed. Although, made it on made bed. Does that do you enjoy inhabiting that space of of mess, of vulnerability?

哦，当然。我喜欢。

Oh, yeah. I love it.

你觉得这些凌乱的人有什么可爱之处？

What do you think is so endearing about these messy people?

我觉得人本身有很多善良。当你看到有人，比如朋友告诉你一些事，表现出脆弱或亲密，你通常会对那个人产生一种温暖的支持和爱意，很高兴他们向你展示了这一面。所以我认为这种感觉也延伸到电视、电影、戏剧、歌曲里。

I think that people there's a lot of inherent goodness in people. And when they see somebody, you know, like, for example, if a friend tells you something and it shows vulnerability or intimacy, you usually kinda get a warm feeling of support and love for that person, and you're glad that they showed that to you. You know? So I think the same thing carries over to TV, film, plays, songs. You know?

如果有人向你展示他们真实的状态，那是一种礼物。我知道我们在很多事情上都害怕这样做。我想说，现代世界，但即使在旧时代，当一切都是棕褐色的时候，也有这种本能。可悲的是我们拥有它，或者世界常常教你要隐藏、分隔、压抑。而当我们抵制这一点——这对我来说也是每天的战斗——会有相当直接的回报。

If somebody shows you what's really happening with them, it's kind of a gift. So I know we're inclined to be afraid to do that in a lot of things. And I was gonna say, the modern world, but I think even in olden days as well when things were sepia toned. There's an instinct, which it's sad that we have it or that it's that we assume it because a lot of the world teaches you to be like, hide, compartmentalize, stuff down. And when we resist that, and it's a daily battle even for me, there are pretty immediate rewards.

如果你把这些回报叠加起来，它们真的可以变得美好，成为在世界上生活的一种更好方式，我想。

And then if you stack them on top of each other, they can really it can become something beautiful and a better way to operate in the world, I think.

你称它为礼物，也是一种邀请，让人们以同样的脆弱回应你。我们在谈你的角色，但我想知道在你自己的生活里，作为罗布·德莱尼，能否给我哪怕一个小瞬间，你曾发出过这种邀请或送出过这份礼物，或者收到过？

You call it a gift, an invitation as well for people to meet you with that same kind of vulnerability. We're talking about your characters, but I wanna know in your own life Mhmm. As Rob Delaney, can you give me even just a small moment where you kind of extended that invite or gave that gift to someone or received it?

好的。跟正在剪这期节目的人说一声，先舒服地坐好，我可能要停顿最多四分钟。嗯，比如，我已经戒酒二十三年了。这些年来，这给了我很多展示脆弱的机会，也因此希望能帮到别人。

Okay. Like to speak to whoever's editing this now. Get comfortable while I pause for up to four minutes. Well, I suppose, like, I've been sober, for example, for twenty three years. And that has afforded me many opportunities over the years to show vulnerability and thereby, I hope, help other people.

别人也曾这样帮我。现在我戒酒这么久，真的不想再喝。但无数次在派对上，有人给我酒，我会说，不，谢谢。

You know? Other people did that for me. And now I've been sober for so long, and I really don't desire to drink. But, I mean, the number of times I've said at parties, when somebody offers me a drink, I'll be like, no. Thank you.

我有酒瘾。我会大声而自豪地说。当然，这让我发笑，这很重要。

I have alcoholism. You know? And I I'll say it loud and proud. Sure. And it makes me laugh, which is very important.

但是，其他人也会听到，然后有时候人们会过来跟我说，比如，前几天我在酒类专卖店不得不说谎，说我正在办派对，因为我买了太多酒，其实我一点也不舒服，你知道的。然后他们就可以跟我聊这些事情。

But, also, other people hear it, and then sometimes people will talk to me and be like, so I had to lie at the liquor store the other day and say say I was having a party because of all the liquor I was buying, and I really don't feel good, you know, ever. And and then they can talk to me about stuff like that.

这真的很了不起，在一个热闹的派对上，有人走过来跟我说，我其实……说真的，我觉得那种幽默、那种脆弱感显然打开了一个空间，让真正的连接成为可能，这种感觉很少见。

That's a pretty remarkable thing to, like, in the middle of a buzzy party or whatever, have someone come to you and be like, I actually am I mean, seriously, I think that the the humor, the vulnerability clearly opens up, like, a space for Yeah. A real connection in a way that feels rare.

嗯，我想我已经戒酒这么久了，我不再觉得有酗酒或成瘾问题是什么坏事，尤其随着我年纪渐长，因为你会发现，不管是不是酗酒，人生都非常艰难、痛苦且不公平。所以我现在知道这其实没那么糟。如果我否认自己有酗酒问题，那才真的糟糕。你懂吗？如果趁你不注意的时候，我往杯子里倒琴酒，然后说‘没事’，那才真的有问题。

Well, I guess having been sober as long as I have been, I don't think it's bad to have alcoholism or addiction issues anymore, especially as I just get older because then you start to see, like, well, alcoholism or not, you know, life is extremely difficult and painful and unfair. And so I now know that it's really not that bad. It would be bad if I said I don't have a drinking problem. You know? And if, you know, when you weren't looking, was pouring gin into this and being like, that's fine.

然后我还要去接我的孩子，然后他们只要犯一点点小错我就会抓狂。但，不，我会承认我正在面对的问题，然后它就变成了我可以处理、可以克服、可以活下去的事情。

And then I'm gonna go pick up my kids and Sure. You know, freak out when they commit the most minor little child like infraction. But, no, I, you know, admit what I'm dealing with, and then it becomes, you know, something I can deal with and work through and live through.

你知道吗，Rob，我还想聊聊你最新的项目《Dying for Sex》。你的角色，我们只叫他‘邻居男’，他非常邋遢，把垃圾留在走廊里。我还说过那个滴汁的墨西哥卷饼。

You know, Rob, I I also wanna talk about your latest project, dying for sex. Your character, we only know him as neighbor guy. He's extremely messy. He leaves trash in the hall. I talked about that burrito dripping.

剧里的主角，Michelle Williams，她讨厌他，受不了他。她告诉他他很恶心。但后来发生了一件了不起的事，他们之间出现了转变。

The main character in the show, Michelle Williams, she hates him. She cannot stand him. And she tells him he's disgusting. But then this kind of remarkable thing happens. There's this shift that occurs between them.

你能说说这个吗？

Can you talk about that?

可以。我的角色‘邻居男’一开始，她一开始觉得他挺让人反感的，但后来有一次她在走廊里责备他，她——

Yeah. So my character of neighbor guy starts out. At first, she finds him quite off putting, but then one time she chastises him in the hallway, and she

我爱这场戏。

I love this scene.

哦，他喜欢。嗯，你知道吗？我也喜欢。

Oh, he liked that. And Mhmm. What do you know? I liked it too.

一旦莫莉的角色意识到邻居男喜欢被命令，嗯哼。告诉我他们的关系从那里如何发展。他们会陷入什么样的、什么样的事情？

Once Molly's character realizes that Neighbor Guy likes to be told what to do Mhmm. Tell me how their relationship evolves from there. What sorts of what sorts of things do they get into?

嗯，所以一开始，你知道，就是一些羞辱的东西，

Well, so it starts, you know, with, like, humiliation stuff and

只是羞辱的东西。

Just humiliation stuff.

对。只是一些羞辱，但也可以说是中等程度。我不太了解那个世界，所以不知道它在尺度上处于什么位置。但我会说可能是中级的BDSM，也许吧，我猜。我们会核实

Yeah. It's just some, humiliation, but also mid grade. I mean, I don't know much about that world, so I don't know where it falls on the scale of things. But, you know, I'd say it's maybe intermediate BDSM, maybe, I'm guessing. We'll fact

一下。嗯。

check it. Yeah.

对对。我的意思是，你可以做得更少，也可以做得更多。

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I mean, there you could do less. You could do a lot more.

你懂我意思吧？所以一开始只是性方面的事。但幸运的是，对他们俩来说，它真的变成了一种更美好的、你知道的、真正的亲密。他们真的开始像一对真正关心彼此的情侣那样合拍。

You know what I mean? And so it starts just as a sexual thing. But then luckily, for both of them, it really, transforms into something more beautiful and, you know, genuine intimacy. And, you know, they really start to make sense as a couple who truly care about each other.

我想谈谈他们的情感连接，但我想先在你说的中级BDSM上多停留一秒。

I wanna talk about their emotional connection, but I wanna linger on, as you say, the intermediate BDSM for just one second.

我就知道你会想聊这个。

And I suspected you would want to.

对对。你可以从广义上、个人经历上，随便你怎么回答都行。饰演一个发现自己喜欢性臣服的人，有没有让你对恋爱关系或恋爱动态学到什么？

Yeah. Yes. You can answer this, you know, in a broad sense, in a personal sense, whatever you want. Did playing someone who discovers that they like to be sexually submissive, did it teach you anything about relationships or relationship dynamics?

这是个很棒的问题，我真的还没想过。但我觉得就像我之前说的，你在向某人展示一部分自己，这很可怕，因为在这种情况下，存在他们可能会对你造成身体伤害的风险。但在任何关系中，都存在一种风险：哎呀，我是不是太快敞开心扉了？你懂我的意思吗？我是不是因为过早地表达了一种情感而失去了优势？

That's a great question that I really haven't thought about. But I think kinda like I was saying earlier, you know, you're offering a piece of yourself to somebody in a way that is scary because there's the threat, in this case, that they could physically hurt you. But in any relationship, there's the threat that, uh-oh, did I open up too fast? You know what I mean? Did I did I lose the advantage by uncoolly expressing a feeling too early?

你知道吗？所以，说实话，这几乎看起来更容易，比如，为什么你不直接在那个男人通常不喜欢被踢的地方狠狠地踢我一脚，而不是说，嘿，我停不下来想你。

You know? So, honestly, it's almost like easier seeming to be like, why don't you just kick me hard in that area where men usually don't like to get kicked than to be like, hey. So can't stop thinking about you

对。

Right.

你知道吗，就像，三周的感情。是啊。你懂吧？

Ever, you know, like, three weeks into a relationship. Yeah. You know?

我喜欢这个。我没从那个角度想过，我是说，我在想，我们在切换你的角色和你本人。当然，这些是不同的个体，其中一个甚至根本不是人。但那种酷酷的外表，那是你在感情中的样子吗？

I love that. I hadn't thought about it from that pers I mean, I I guess I wonder, you know, we're switching between your character and and you. And, of course, these are different people. One is, in fact, not a person at all. But, this sort of cool veneer, was that you in relationships?

比如，你是否也害怕那样敞开心扉？你是否也试图保持所谓的优势？

Like, were you afraid to open up in that way? Were you trying to keep the advantage, as you say?

是的，确实有时候是这样。现在，你知道，我甚至无法开始这段对话，而不先提到我和我妻子已经在一起二十一年了。

Yeah. Certainly at times. Now, you know, I can't even begin this conversation without leading with the fact that my wife and I have been together for twenty one years.

恭喜。

Congratulations.

谢谢。我现在48岁，所以，你知道，那几乎是我人生的一半。所以我记得在我们关系的早期，我和我妻子有意识地谈论过，比如卸下盔甲，试着更多地用心而不是用脑去相处，这是爱情能帮助人们做到的奇妙事情。所以我确实记得在我和我妻子关系的早期，我会说，好吧，放松。

Thank you. And I'm 48, so, you know, that's almost half my life. So I can remember early in our relationship, like, consciously talking my wife and I talking about, like, taking off armor and stuff and trying to operate more from our hearts than from our heads, which is a wonderful thing that love can help people do. So I definitely remember early in my relationship with my wife, like, being like, okay. Relax.

放松。你知道，放手。而且，你知道，有不同程度的成功，有时是彻底的失败和羞辱，以及多年的痛苦。

Relax. You know, let go. And, you know, with varying degrees of success, sometimes utter abject failure and humiliation and and years of pain.

你和你的妻子有没有明确用过那种语言，比如，脱掉盔甲？你用了吗，还是那只是

Did you and your wife use explicitly that language, like, take off armor? Did you or was that, like

我们确实明确用了那种语言。虽然听起来很好笑，但我们还是觉得这对我们很重要。因为有点傻的暗号、口头禅和奇怪的私人小曲都没问题。

We totally did explicitly use that language. That's so laugh at it, but still found it, I think, important for ourselves. Because it's okay to have silly code words and catchphrases and bizarre private songs and all that stuff.

那我晚点再推荐。是啊。不，我是说，我有时在想，在一段关系里，至少在我的经历中，会有一种 shorthand，我想我——我是在投射自己的经历。但如果，在某个时刻，你会说“盔甲”吗？

Well I recommend later. Yeah. No. I mean, I I wonder sometimes in relationships, at least in my experience, there is a kind of shorthand, and I I guess I wonder I mean, this is projection of my own experience. But if, like, you're in a moment, do you say something like armor?

就像，你们有没有把它当作两人的一个触点来引用？

Like, is there a way that you sort of reference that as a touch point for you two?

我们俩都不太会在激烈时刻说，你知道吗，不如我们——嘿，看起来有人穿了点盔甲，或者，来，要不要我帮你卸——是啊。所以好消息是，我这么说是因为我刚离开她，几分钟前还和我老婆在一起，过会儿还会见到她，这两件事我都很开心。

We're both pretty bad at, like, in a heated moment of being like, you know what? Why don't we just hey. Seems like somebody's wearing a little armor, you know, or like, here, do want me to help you unsheathe your yeah. So but the good news, I say that as somebody who like, I just left. I was just with my wife moments ago, and I'll go see her in a little bit, and I'm happy about both.

我们仍然不擅长说，你知道吗，不如我们休息一下？

And we're still bad at being like, you know what? Why don't we take a break?

我觉得承认这点很棒。脱离。就是这样。盔甲有时还是戴着。我是说，我们——我也看到这种情况发生在角色之间，Molly 和邻居男，《为性而死》里。

And I think that's great to admit. Disengaging. There you go. The armor sometimes stays up. I mean, we're we're I see that happening too between the character of, between Molly and and neighbor guy and dying for sex.

盔甲相对很快就卸下了，因为，你知道，邻居男并没有让它停留在性上。他们发展出了情感联系，正如你所说，邻居男意识到 Molly 病得很重，是绝症。而你角色对此的反应，我觉得非常令人惊喜且令人欣慰。他

The the armor does come down relatively quickly because, you know, neighbor guy does it it doesn't stay a sex thing. They they develop this emotional connection, as you say, and Neighbor Guy realizes that Molly is is sick, very sick, terminally ill. And the way your character responds to that knowledge, I think, is really surprising and affirming. He

我觉得邻居男最棒的一点是，他没有试图挤进 Molly 的生活，成为比她当时所需更大的存在。嗯。我觉得记住这点很重要，我也觉得让演邻居男的演员意识到，剧里最重要的关系是 Molly 和 Nikki，由珍妮·斯蕾特饰演。

the great thing I think about Neighbor Guy is he doesn't try to wedge his way in and become a bigger thing in Molly's life than she needs at that time. Mhmm. I think it's important to remember, and I think it's good to have the actor who plays neighbor guy be cognizant of the fact that the most important relationship in the show is between Molly and Nikki played by Jenny Slate.

最好的朋友。

Best friends.

是的。所以我认为邻居哥的一个优点是他不会试图成为故事的主角。他知道莫莉在地球上的时间有限，尽管他有各种缺点，他明白她需要他做什么，并且他愿意成为那样的人。这是我喜欢他的地方。

Yeah. And so I think a good thing about Neighbor Guy is he doesn't try to become the star of the story. He understands that Molly has limited time on Earth, and he for all his flaws, he understands what it is that she needs from him, and he's willing to be that. And so that's something I like about him.

是的，我也是。而且他也没有逃避。对吧？我的意思是，这有点像是在对一个虚构角色进行心理分析，但我猜这也是表演的一部分。

Yeah. Me too. And he doesn't look away. Right? I mean, this is kind of, you know, psychoanalyzing a fictional character, but I assume that's part of acting.

你觉得他意识到她需要他做什么？

What do you think he realizes she needs from him?

我的意思是，触摸、善意、温暖、陪伴、挑逗、分散注意力。如果她要开口说出来，大概会是类似这些。

I mean, touch, kindness, warmth, presence, titillation, distraction. That that might be if she if she were to voice it, it might be something along those lines.

我觉得他们也，莫莉和邻居哥，他们创造了自己的小世界。这部剧很多场景都发生在病房里，他们在那里分享非常亲密的时刻，就像他们自己的泡泡、自己的小世界。罗布，你今天选的这篇《现代爱情》文章很有趣。它不是关于死亡，但我确实觉得它和《为性而死》有关，因为这是另一对创造自己世界的伴侣。

I think they also, Molly and neighbor guy, they sort of create their own world. So much of this this show happens in hospital rooms where they share a really beautifully intimate moments together in a in a hospital. And it is sort of like their own bubble, their own world. Rob, the essay the Modern Love essay you selected to read today is a fun one. It's not about dying, but I do think it relates to dying for sex in the sense that this is another couple who kind of creates their own their own world Yeah.

他们的互相诱惑、彼此的吸引是唯一重要的事情，哪怕只是短暂的一段时间。你想说说这篇文章吗，为什么你选它来引出你的朗读？

Where their seduction of each other, their attraction to each other is sort of the only thing that matters even just for a a brief amount of time. Do you wanna say anything about this essay, why you chose it to to queue us up for your reading?

我选这篇文章是因为我觉得它可以为正在恋爱或想恋爱的人提供一份路线图。我觉得他们在文章里做的事情对他们的未来很有好处。所以对我来说，这篇文章充满希望。

I chose this essay because I think it can provide a road map for people who are in relationships or would like to be in one. I think that these people do something in here that bodes well for their future. So there's hope in this essay as far as I'm concerned.

我喜欢这一点。罗布，你准备好了就开始吧，我很想听你读。

I like that. Whenever you're ready, Rob, I'd love to hear you read this.

好的。文章是蒂姆·克莱德的《就今晚，假装你不认识我》。像许多情侣一样，我和女朋友都认为情人节是个商业节日。去年，我们谁都不想做什么传统浪漫的事，比如去高档餐厅吃大餐。相反，我们想干点出格的。

Great. Just for tonight, pretend you don't know me by Tim Crider. Like many couples, my girlfriend and I agree that Valentine's Day is a commercial holiday. Last year, neither of us wanted to do anything traditionally romantic, like go out for a fancy dinner. We wanted instead to do something scandalous.

我们有一张愿望清单，已经陆续完成不少。我们讨论了几个选项，最后选了我的一个提议：去一家我们都不常去的酒吧，假装是陌生人，然后我去搭讪她。我们已经交往八个月了，足够让彼此感到舒服。感到舒服是长期关系的一大乐趣，不用再端着第一次约会的架子，可以点外卖、看电视，一起无聊。

We had a wish list of activities we'd been gradually checking off and talked over a few possibilities. We settled on one of my suggestions. We would go to a bar that neither of us frequented, pretend to be strangers, and I would try to pick her up. We had been dating for eight months, long enough to get comfortable with each other. Getting comfortable is one of the pleasures of being in a long term relationship, not having to put up a first date front, getting takeout and watching TV, being boring together.

不用时刻端着，可以毫无顾忌地展现坏情绪或怪癖，而不用担心对方终于看清你的真面目，这是一种解脱。但这同样是感情里的隐患：你可能会把伴侣视为理所当然，不再费心去取悦。情侣们忘了如何调情，忘了自己对别人仍有吸引力，于是对彼此、对自己都感到厌倦，直到有一天，其中一人被发现拥有完整的秘密生活——一段外遇、隐秘的通信、隐藏的癖好，或某位出乎意料的性别或类型的前任。我们俩都不擅长角色扮演。

It's a relief not to have to be on, to feel free to be in an unattractive mood or display one of your weird neuroses without worrying the other person will finally realize the truth about you. But this is also a hazard of relationships. You can take your partner for granted and quit trying to impress. Couples forget how to flirt or that they're attractive to anyone else and get bored with each other and themselves until the day it emerges that one of them has a whole secret life, an affair or erotic correspondence, a hidden kink, an ex of some unexpected type or gender. Neither of us was practiced at role playing.

我们不玩复杂的学生妹教授、求职者雇主，或者莱娅公主与赫特人那种剧本。我们不想假装成别人。我们要在一个平行现实里做自己——在那里我们从未相遇。我们都担心只会觉得傻而想中途退出。最后一刻还在犹豫。

We're not into elaborate school girl professor, applicant employer, or princess Leia and the hut scenarios. We weren't going to pretend to be other people. We were going to be ourselves in a parallel reality in which we hadn't met. We both worried that we might just feel stupid and wanna quit. There was some last minute waffling.

她那天心情很糟，我告诉她如果不在状态我们可以推迟。但她决定振作。我们设定了几个暗号，一个用来警告，另一个直接叫停。那晚走去酒吧见我自己的女朋友时，我很紧张。为了穿什么我差点抓狂。

She was having a bad day, and I told her we could postpone if she wasn't in the mood. But she decided to rally. We established some code words, one as a warning and another to call the whole thing off. Walking to the bar that night to meet my own girlfriend, I was nervous. I had freaked out over what to wear.

选个吧台凳都像下棋开局一样，充满可能与陷阱。最终，我在一个家伙旁边隔两个座位的位置坐下，把挨着他或挨着我的选择权留给她。我拿出带来的书——纳博科夫的《微暗的火》，其叙述者也在假装别人，然后等待。她到场时，却伤了我：她坐到了那家伙旁边。后来她说，我不能坐你旁边，那太简单了。

Choosing a bar stool felt as fraught with possibilities and drawbacks as an opening chess move. In the end, I settled on a stool two away from a guy at the end of the bar, leaving my girlfriend the choice to sit beside either him or me. I took out the book I had brought, Nabokov's pale fire, whose narrator is also pretending to be someone else, and waited. When she arrived, she wounded me by taking the stool next to the other guy. I couldn't take the one next to you, she later said.

她甚至考虑过坐到吧台对面，从那里朝我抛媚眼。我根本不会隔着吧台搭讪，肯定会失败出丑。这里得提一句，我女朋友身材丰满。她早已厌倦男人盯着她乳沟看，如今总穿黑色高领的硬朗衣服，配些像机械零件或图腾一样的冷峻铜饰。

That would have been too easy. She said she'd even considered sitting on the other side of the bar from me, making eyes at me from there. I have no idea how to pick someone up on the other side of a bar and would certainly have failed and disgraced myself. It's relevant to mention here that my girlfriend is voluptuous. She tired long ago of men staring at her cleavage and now dresses in severe black clothing with high necklines and austere copper accessories that looked like machine parts or totemic objects.

所以当她穿着紧身无袖上衣滑上高凳，衣服紧贴胸部并露出腹部时，那感觉就像嚼了半片迪劳迪后温暖的眩晕。她的斜边裙摆露出大腿，更添迷离。她从包里掏出一本书翻开，也是《微暗的火》。我们正一起读它作为冬季计划。那家伙也在看书。

So when she slid onto her stool in a tight sleeveless shirt that clung to her breasts and bared her midriff, it had roughly the same warm disorienting effect on me of half a Dilaudid chewed. Her skirt with an angled hemline that showed off her thighs only added to the feeling. She took a book out of her purse and opened it, also pale fire. We were reading it together as a winter project. The other guy was also reading a book.

“这里是吧台尽头读书会。”我开场。那家伙抬头：“嘿，你们俩居然在看同一本书？”我们假装惊讶，三人聊了起来。他的书是一本听起来不错的散文集。

It's the end of the bar book club, I said, as an opening gambit. Hey, other guy said. Did you know you two are reading the same book? We both feigned surprise, and the three of us got into a conversation. Other guy's book was a collection of essays that sounded pretty good.

可怕的是，他聪明又博览群书，因为纽约遍地都是这样的人，用他们傲人的学历和魅力争夺伴侣。他是律师，还不是无聊的那种，而是做有趣又酷的事。我觉得女友跟他聊得比跟我多，我未必能赢她。我开始既喜欢又同情这家伙——他完全不知道只是我们的配角，希望他也根本没机会。可同时我又想击败他。

Alarmingly, he turned out to be smart and well read because, of course, New York is full of smart, well read people vying with their formidable educations and charm for mates. He was a lawyer and not even a boring lawyer, but one who did something interesting and cool. It seemed to me that my girlfriend was talking with him more than me, and that it was by no means a foregone conclusion that I would win her. I had begun to both like and feel sorry for this guy since he had no idea he was a supporting player in our private game, and, I hoped, had no actual chance with her. But I also started to hate him and wanna best him in combat.

我和女友曾见过两只雄加拿大雁为一只雌雁打架，嘎嘎怒吼，翅膀拍水，互相用喙缠颈。恕我直言，所有雁看起来都差不多，很难说谁赢了，进攻者还是防守者。但我知道，我想做那只最终抱得美雁归的，而不是那只屈辱飞走、一路哀鸣的。谢天谢地，那家伙的妻子终于带着同事出现。她们都是某部我们肯定没看过的电视剧的编剧，每周二晚聚在一起看最新一集。

My girlfriend and I had once seen two male Canada geese fighting over a female goose, squawking furiously and beating the water with their wings and grappling at each other's snaking throats with their bills. Because, no offense, all geese looked pretty much alike, It was hard to say which goose won, the attacker or the defender. But I knew that I wanted to be the goose that ended up with the girl, not the one who flew off honking in ignominious defeat. Thank god the guy's wife eventually showed up with a colleague of hers. They were both writers for a TV show they assured us we had never seen who got together every Tuesday night to watch the new episode.

他们都是有意思的人，我们喜欢他们，可也不能出戏。起初我们对这个计划就感到尴尬和不确定，如今我们的私密游戏变成了牵涉他人的失控实验，我们只能硬撑。它已变得真实。

They were all interesting people. We liked them, but we also couldn't break character. We had felt self conscious and uncertain about this plan to start out with. But now that our private game had become an uncontrolled experiment involving other people, we were committed. It had gotten real.

在第三方面前维持我们“互不相识”的姿态，也迫使我们重新介绍自己，互相提问：你是做什么的？你住哪个街区？我们得努力回答得不无聊，还得重新倾听对方的答案。这也让我们的角色扮演与现实保持联系。她被迫以更真实的方式调情，像一个在酒吧里对陌生人带着些许倦怠与矜持的女人，而不是喝了一杯就邀我回家，或在洗手间里跟我上床。

Having to maintain our pose of being strangers in front of a third party also forced us to reintroduce ourselves, to ask each other, so what do you do? And what neighborhood do you live in? And we had to try to answer without being boring and to listen to each other's answers anew. It also kept our role play tethered to reality. She was forced to be more realistically flirtatious, treating me like a stranger at a bar with some weariness and respectability instead of just inviting me back to her place after one drink or having sex with me in the bathroom.

就在三位新朋友离开前，律师递给我们每人一张名片，说：我每周二都在这儿，如果你们想继续我们的读书会。我觉得他给了我一个同行间“祝你好运”或“恭喜”的眼神。他们走后，我问女友能否让我埋单。我既紧张地发问，又因她答应而狂喜，就像第一次见她一样。让我们为那晚的结局拉上谨慎的帷幕，只说一句：跟自己女友来一场笨拙的醉酒约炮，实在是独一无二的体验。

Just before our three new friends left, the lawyer gave us each his card and said, I'm here every Tuesday if you wanna keep our book club going. I thought he gave me a collegial guy look of good luck or congratulations. After they left, I asked my girlfriend if she would let me pay for our drinks. I was as anxious asking and as thrilled when she accepted as I would have been had I been meeting her for the first time. Let us draw the curtain of discretion over the evening's conclusion, except to say that it is a singular experience to have awkward drunken hookup sex with your own girlfriend.

这并不是为了给一段乏味的感情加料。我也不一定向他人推荐这个游戏本身。我推荐的是它带给我们的东西。它提醒我们，尽管几个月的相处可能营造出熟悉的假象，我和女友对彼此依旧陌生。互相讲述自己浪漫与性爱的过去也有类似效果，让我记起她是一个完整的人，我只了解她近期且狭窄的一段样本，而她有漫长的关系、艳遇与幻想史，有一整片欲望光谱，其中大部分我可能从未看见。

This wasn't about spicing up a relationship gone stale. I'm not necessarily recommending this particular game to others. What I would recommend is what it did for us. It reminded us that despite the illusion of familiarity our months together may have fostered, my girlfriend and I are still strange to each other. Telling each other stories about our romantic and sexual past has something of the same effect, reminding me that she is a whole person of whom I know only a recent and narrow sample with a long history of relationships, flings, and fantasies, a whole spectrum of desire, much of which may be invisible to me.

这令人害怕，却也令人兴奋。人很容易自满，以为伴侣让你看到的那窄窄一条，或你唯一敢去看的那一条，就是全部。最终，我们的游戏不仅是春药，也是补药。提醒我，只要她愿意，任何一晚都可以跟别人回家。虽然我信任她，也相信她爱我，我仍得时不时重新赢得她。

This is frightening, but also exciting. It's easy to get complacent and imagine that the narrow band your partner allows you to see, or the only one you're comfortable looking at, is all there is. In the end, our game was not just an aphrodisiac, but also a tonic. A reminder that she could, if she wanted, go home with someone else any night she wants. Although I trust her and believe that she loves me, I still have to win her once in a while.

也许这会成为我们的传统，一个对永恒真相的仪式性提醒，假设我们还能再来一次——但没有人能保证还有下一个情人节。

Maybe it will become a tradition for us, a ritual reminder of a perennial truth, assuming we get to do it again, but no one is guaranteed another Valentine's Day.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

天啊，你最近去过Marshalls吗？他们有你爱的所有名牌和设计师款，却不用让你倒吸一口凉气的价签。好了，实话告诉你。

Oh my gosh. Have you been to Marshalls lately? They have all the brand name and designer pieces you love, but without the jaw dropping price tags. Alright. So here's the truth.

你永远不该在品质和价格之间妥协。在Marshalls，你无需妥协。Marshalls相信每个人都值得拥有好东西。因此他们的买手全天候奔波，只为帮你实现。去你附近的Marshalls门店或登录marshals.com网购。

You should never have to compromise between quality and price. And at Marshall's, you don't have to. Marshall's believes everyone deserves access to the good stuff. And that's why their buyers hustle around the clock to make it happen for you. Visit a Marshall store near you or shop online at marshals.com.

嗨，《纽约时报》。我非常希望共享订阅能有独立登录。我35岁了，还在用爸妈的《纽约时报》订阅。

Hi, New York Times. I would be very interested in having separate logins for a shared subscription. I'm 35 years old. I still share my parents' New York Times subscription.

我想，如果我 teenagers 有自己的登录，他们就能分享文章了。

I think if my teenagers were to have their own logins, they could share articles.

它让我们不能一起玩同样的游戏。

It doesn't let us play the same games as each other.

我玩 Stoku。

I play the Stoku.

我做填字游戏。

I do the crossword.

我做拼写蜂。

I do the spelling bee.

我做 Wordle。

I do the wordle.

请帮帮忙。

Please help.

如果我们能有各自的账户就太棒了。我妈妈可以保存她自己的食谱。我的朋友们可以

Having our own accounts would be amazing. My mom could save her own recipes. My friends could

保存他们的食谱。我想收到每周通讯，但它们似乎总是发到我丈夫那里，而他又不会转发给我。我们俩都喜欢做饭。我是那种三十分钟以内搞定晚餐的女孩。我男朋友则非常讲究。

save their recipes. I wanna get the weekly newsletter, but they seem to always go to my husband, and then he doesn't forward them to me. We both love cooking. I'm a thirty minute and under dinner girly. My boyfriend is very elaborate.

我觉得他有自己的个人资料会很棒。

I think him having his own profile would be great.

我们热爱《纽约时报》，并且我们希望各自独立地热爱它。

We love the New York Times, and we would love to love it individually.

听众们，我们听到了你们的声音。现在推出《纽约时报》家庭订阅。一个订阅最多可支持四个独立登录，送给你生命中的任何人。更多信息请访问 nytimes.com/family。

Listeners, we heard you. Introducing the New York Times family subscription. One subscription up to four separate logins for anyone in your life. Find out more at nytimes.com/family.

非常感谢你朗读这篇文章，罗布。我很想知道你的第一反应。有没有哪一个瞬间、哪一句话特别让你印象深刻？

Thank you so much for reading that, Rob. I would love to know your immediate reaction. Was there a moment, a line that sticks out to you in particular?

嗯，我很喜欢结尾，因为它并不张扬，而是直面现实。这很棒。所以这篇文章里有一种希望感，但他也说我们并不能保证还有下一个情人节，我觉得这很好。这是事实。

Well, I quite like the ending because it's not triumphant. It grapples with reality. So that's very nice. So there's there's a hopefulness in this essay, but also he he says we're not guaranteed another Valentine's Day, which I think is great. That's true.

他们中的一个或两个都可能被公交车撞到。他们可能都已经死了。而且，你知道，他提醒我们这一点，挺好的。

One or both of them could be hit by buses. They could both already be dead. And and, you know, it's nice of him to remind us of that fact.

是啊。我觉得蒂姆和他女朋友这次冒险能这么顺利，真的很了不起。他们一开始显然感到非常尴尬，差点就没去做。有很多方式可能会搞砸。

Yeah. I think it's pretty amazing how well this adventure played out for Tim and his girlfriend. Like, they clearly felt extremely awkward going into it. They almost didn't do it. There are so many ways it could have backfired.

如果这是由你罗布·德莱尼创作的电视剧，你脑子里有没有浮现什么灾难情节？比如，你能想象在……

If this was a TV show created by you, Rob Delaney, were any disaster scenarios playing out in your head? Like, what could you imagine in the in

这部剧里，当然。第一个？

the show Sure. The first of this?

我非常紧张，担心这可能会导致她、他和另一个人三人行。是啊，那个读书会的家伙。那就太吓人了。所以这让我心里打了个结。

I was super nervous that it might lead to a threesome with her and the other guy. Yeah. The book club. And that would have been scary. So that that put a knot in my stomach.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为那样他就得看着另一个男人，希望是，尽力去满足他的伴侣。

Because then he would have to see another man, hopefully, do his best to satisfy his partner.

是啊，你觉得那在情感上挺吓人的。

Yeah. You thought that would be kind of emotionally scary

对，对他来说，非常有挑战性。

Yeah. For him. Very challenging.

你能想象像蒂姆和他女朋友那样，为了重新赢得对方而做出那些事吗？你能做到吗？

Can you imagine doing what Tim and his girlfriend did to try to win each other over again as it were? Like, would you be able to pull something like that off?

我真的很想这么做。我之所以选这个，部分原因是我努力在自己非常感恩的长期关系中保持灵活、可教、谦逊。所以我觉得他们这么做太酷了，因为这无疑令人兴奋。他们从中了解到的关于彼此和自己的东西，我觉得真的很有用。因为我记得自己婚姻里也有类似经历，比如我工作太拼，然后会觉得，但没关系。

I'd really love to do it. And part of why I picked this is because I try to remain flexible, teachable, humble in my own long term relationship that I'm very grateful to have. So I think it's so cool that they did this because it's undeniably exciting. And what it taught them about each other and themselves, I think, is really useful stuff. Because I can remember times in my own marriage, you know, like, where I was working too much, and I'd be like, but that's okay.

我是说，我妻子是成年人，对吧？她可以——你知道，我可以把关系先放架子上几个月，专心做项目。

I mean, I my wife is an adult. You know? She can hand you know, I can put our relationship on the shelf for a few months while I work on this project.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而这绝对是灾难的配方。不管你的伴侣多成熟，不管他们遇见你之前多独立、能自己活下去，当你和他们在一起时，你必须像对待——像花园，或者像牛奶那样——去呵护那个人和那段关系。

And that is a big, big recipe for guaranteed disaster. It doesn't matter that your partner's a grown up. It doesn't matter that they were self sufficient before they met you, you know, and could survive without you. When you're with them, you must tend to that person and that relationship as though it is you know, it's as sensitive as, I don't know, like a garden, you know, or like milk. You know?

得像冷藏一样，否则很快就会变质。

It has to be like refrigerate like, it's gonna go bad fast

确实。

Sure.

如果你不注意。我最喜欢的一句话是：爱的货币是专注的关注。

If you don't pay attention to it. And so for me and one of my favorite phrases, the currency of love is focused attention.

哇。谁说的？

Woah. Who said that?

我不知道。但那是我听过的最真实的话之一。你知道吗？所以你必须把这种关注给你的伴侣。所以，用新的眼光看待你的伴侣真的是一个非常好的主意。

I don't know. But that is one of the truest things I've ever heard. You know? And so you've gotta give that attention to your partner. And so so looking, you know, through a new lens at your partner is a really, really good idea.

你的回答里有两句很棒的话。关系的货币是来自未知的专注关注。

Two great quotes in that answer. The currency of relationships is focused attention from unknown.

爱的货币。

The currency of love.

爱的货币是专注的关注，而关系就像牛奶，Rob Delaney说的。所以这两句话感觉非常一致

The currency of love is focused attention, and relationships are like milk, Rob Delaney. So both of those feel, like, very on the same

层面上。我的意思是，我也说过它们就像一个花园。你知道吗？对。但不是加州那种能在干旱中生存的仙人掌岩石花园，而更像是一个纽约花园。

level. I mean, I also said that they're like a garden. You know? Right. But one of the not a California rock garden with cacti that can survive a drought, but more like a sort of a New York garden.

我不知道。

I I don't know.

是的。我的意思是，我喜欢你所说的。我想问你更多关于这个的问题。所以就像作者和他的女朋友在一起八个月了。是的。

Yeah. I mean, I love what you're saying. I wanna ask you about this more. So it's like the author and his girlfriend had been together for eight months. Yeah.

他们开始担心蜜月期会结束，对吧，这就是他们参与

They're starting they're fearing that the honeymoon stage will end, right, which is why they engage in

这个项目的原因。是的。

this project. Yeah.

你还记得散文家提到的那种时刻吗？就是当你们关系的火花、激情和热度开始消退，你不得不面对这一点。你还记得这样的时刻吗？

Do you remember a moment like this that the essayist is referring to where, like, the sparks and the passion and the the the fizz of your relationship was starting to wear off, and you had to confront that. Do you remember a moment like that?

是的。这真的很奇怪，因为一段关系里有不同的季节，有起有落，然后如果有了孩子。对我来说，我们关系中最黑暗的时期是我陷入工作狂的时候，那对我们的关系产生了真正的腐蚀作用，那是我必须真正有意识地去补救的事情。所以我回顾过去。

Yeah. I mean, it's so strange because there's seasons within a relationship, and there's waxing and waning, and, you know, and then if children come into the picture. Yeah. I mean, for me, the the sort of darkest period in our relationship was when I got swept up in some workaholism, and that had a real corrosive effect on our relationship, and it was something that I had to really consciously remedy. So I look back.

你知道，我为我们的婚姻感到非常自豪，我们一起经历了一些非常困难的事情。我们也经历了一些美好的事情，但最大的自我造成的伤害是我工作的时间简直荒谬，我以为我陷入了那种传统的刻板印象，比如，嗯，重要的是我为这个家庭提供现金和屋顶。除此之外，拜托，别烦我。你知道的？那对每个人来说都很悲伤，也很难受。

You know, I'm I'm extremely proud of our marriage, and we've been through some very difficult things together. We've also been through some wonderful things, but sort of the the biggest self inflicted wound was when I worked just absurd hours and thought I kinda fell into the traditional stereotypical thing like, well, it's all that matters is that I provide cash to this family and a roof over our heads. Beyond that, I mean, give me a break. You know? And that was sad for everybody and and hard.

所以我妻子说，你得立刻改变，否则这段关系不会长久。这是承诺。我说，哦，哇，好吧。

And so my wife said, you're gonna need to change that lickety split or this won't last. And that's a promise. Yeah. And I was like, oh, wow. Okay.

我并没有怎么反抗。我说，嗯，看看哪个更重要，我的婚姻还是我的事业。我选择了我的婚姻。然后

And I didn't really put up much of a fight. I was like, well, let's see what's more important, my marriage or my career. And I picked my marriage. And

你能告诉我，你愿意分享的具体细节，比如，改变那意味着什么？把婚姻放在第一位意味着什么？

Can you tell me in as many specifics as you want to to share, like, what what did it mean to change that? Like, what did it mean to put your marriage first?

嗯，这意味着我每天和每周投入工作的时间减少了。有趣的是，当我那样做时，我的创作产出对我来说变得更有满足感。所以就是这样，然后理解当你有孩子时，你会发现的能量、勤奋和力量的源泉。

Well, it meant a reduction in the number of hours that I devoted to work each day and each week. Mhmm. Curiously, my creative output became way more satisfying to me when I did that. Yeah. And so so that was that, and then understanding that the wellspring of energy and diligence and strength that you discover when you have children.

因为如果你不利用它，他们会死，因为他们会饿死。你也可以为你的伴侣找到它。所以我必须深入挖掘，你知道，这很快就变得很有回报，因为就像我之前说的，爱的货币是专注的注意力，它会带来相当直接的结果。你的伴侣希望你关注他们。

Because if you don't access it, they'll die because they'll starve. You can also find that for your partner. Yeah. So I had to dig deep and, you know, it was pretty rewarding pretty quickly because, like I said earlier about, you know, the currency of love being focused attention, it yields pretty immediate results. And your partner wants you to pay attention to them.

他们希望你看着他们，触碰他们，问他们今天过得怎么样，关心他们。你真的不会出错，告诉你的伴侣他们很美，他们让你笑，然后，你知道，把你的手机扔进海里，举个例子。

They want you to look at them and touch them and ask them how their day was and care about them. Mhmm. You really kinda can't go wrong telling your partner that they're beautiful, that they make you laugh, and and then, you know, throw your phone in the sea, for example.

嗯。

Yep.

没错。然后看着你的伴侣，握住他们的手，挠他们痒痒。对，你们应该互相挠痒。一定要这么做。

Yep. And and and look at your partner and hold their hand and and tickle them. Yeah. You should tickle each other. You should definitely do that.

很好。对。

Good. Yeah.

罗布·德莱尼，谢谢你建议我们耕耘爱情的花园，挠我们所爱之人的痒。非常感谢这次对话。

Rob Delaney, thank you for your advice to cultivate the garden of our relationships and tickle the ones we love. Yeah. So appreciate this conversation.

非常感谢你。

Thank you so much.

今天罗布朗读的文章由作家兼漫画家蒂姆·克莱德撰写。蒂姆目前的项目是一个名为《The Loaf》的 Substack 通讯。《现代爱情》团队包括艾米·珀尔、克里斯蒂娜·约瑟夫、戴维斯·兰德、艾米莉·朗、珍·波扬特、林恩·利维、里瓦·戈德堡和萨拉·柯蒂斯。本期节目由里瓦·戈德堡制作，由珍·波扬特和戴维斯·兰德编辑，林恩·利维协助。

The essay Rob read today was by Tim Crider, who's a writer and cartoonist. Tim's current project is a substack called The Loaf. The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Christina Joseph, Davis Land, Emily Lang, Jen Poyant, Lynn Levy, Riva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Riva Goldberg. It was edited by Jen Poyant and Davis Land with help from Lynn Levy.

我们在伦敦的制作支持来自约翰·黑泽和 Laughing Around Studios。本期节目由丹尼尔·拉米雷斯混音，在美国的录音室支持来自麦迪·马西耶洛和尼克·皮特曼。我们的视频团队是布鲁克·明斯特、索菲·埃里克森和阿尔弗雷多·基亚拉帕。《现代爱情》主题音乐由丹·鲍威尔创作。本期原创音乐由卡罗尔·萨布罗、丹·鲍威尔、艾丽西亚·贝托普、玛丽昂·洛扎诺和罗宾·内米斯托提供。

We had production support in London from John Hazel and Laughing Around Studios. This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez with studio support in The US from Maddie Masiello and Nick Pittman. Our video team is Brooke Minters, Sophie Erickson, and Alfredo Quiarapa. The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell. Original music in this episode by Carol Saburo, Dan Powell, Alicia Beitoop, Marion Lozano, and Robin Nemisto.

特别感谢米希玛·乔布拉尼、杰弗里·米兰达和卡塔琳娜·克拉里奇。《现代爱情》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑。李米娅是《现代爱情》项目的编辑。如果你想向《纽约时报》投稿散文或微型爱情故事，说明请见我们的节目备注。我是安娜·马丁。

Special thanks to Mihima Choblani, Jeffrey Miranda, and Katarina Clarichi. The modern love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of modern love projects. If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, the instructions are in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.

今天，我们将尝试一项曾被认为不可能完成的壮举：战胜高利息信用卡债务。它只需要一样东西——SoFi 个人贷款。通过它，你可以将债务合并为一笔低固定利率的月付款，从而大幅节省利息支出。用 SoFi 个人贷款对抗高利息债务。访问 sofi.com/stunt 了解更多。

Today, we'll attempt to feat once thought impossible, overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing, a SoFi personal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interest debt with a SoFi personal loan. Visit sofi.com/stunt to learn more.

贷款由 SoFi Bank NA 发放，FDIC 成员。适用条款与条件。NMLS 696891。

Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA, member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.