借助人工智能的最后一次对话

我是安德鲁·奥索金，DealBook的创始人。

This is Andrew Osorkin, the founder of DealBook.

每年，我都在纽约举办的DealBook峰会上采访全球政界、文化界和商界最具影响力的领袖人物。

Every year, I interview some of the world's most influential leaders across politics, culture, and business at the DealBook Summit, a live event in New York City.

在本年度的播客中，您将听到我与帕兰提尔和Anthropic公司CEO加文·纽瑟姆，以及查理·柯克遗孀埃里卡·柯克的真实对话。

On this year's podcast, you'll hear my unfiltered conversations with Gavin Newsom, the CEO of Palantir and Anthropic, and Erica Kirk, the widow of Charlie Kirk.

欢迎在任意播客平台收听DealBook峰会节目。

Listen to DealBook Summit wherever you get your podcasts.

此刻与永恒的爱。

Love now and above.

坠入

Fall in

爱河不及我情深。

love less than I love.

爱的力量胜过一切。

Love was stronger than anything.

为了爱，爱。

For the love Love.

而我爱你胜过一切。

And I love you more than anything.

爱。

Love.

这是

It's

只是爱。

just love.

爱。

Love.

当你爱的人去世时，他们会留下自己的点点滴滴。

When someone you love dies, they leave behind little fragments of themselves.

有那些实物，用了一半的牙膏，仍放在门边的鞋子。

There are the physical things, the half used tube of toothpaste, the shoes still sitting there by the door.

但还有这些数字化的痕迹，所有的短信、照片、视频，还有你手机里的语音邮件。

But there are also these digital things, all the texts, the photos, and videos, and voicemails right there on your phone.

我现在已经听了所有的语音录音，我想说几十次，甚至可能有上百次了。

I've listened to all the voice recordings now, I wanna say dozens, if not hundreds of times.

当玛德琳·德菲格罗失去丈夫伊莱时，她利用这些录音来感受与他亲近的感觉。

When Madeleine Defiguero lost her husband Eli, she used those recordings as a way to feel close to him.

他留给我的语音邮件

Voicemails he had left me

嗨，麦蒂。

Hi, Maddie.

我正在开车。

I'm just driving.

你为什么不回我短信？

Would you like not texting me back?

和他的家人朋友一起做饭。

Cooking with his family and friends.

难喝的茶。

Sick tea.

是啊。

Yeah.

刮掉它。

Scrape it.

它。

It.

刮掉它。

Scrape it.

刮刮

Scrape Scrape

它。

it.

刮掉它。

Scrape it.

感恩节时和他的小表弟们一起玩游戏。

Playing games with his little cousins at Thanksgiving.

我们在波多黎各徒步旅行，看到小径上这些巨大的蜗牛，他对此非常着迷。

Us hiking in Puerto Rico and seeing these giant snails on the trail that he was so enamored with.

这是玛德琳。

Here's Madeline.

她是只中等体型的蜗牛。

She's a medium sized snail.

玛德琳真正想要的只是再次和伊莱在一起。

All Madeline really wanted was to be with Eli again.

听着这些录音几乎让她感觉他们又在一起了。

And listening to these recordings almost made her feel like she was.

几乎，但还不够。

Almost, but not quite.

这就像一种无法满足的渴望。

It's like an unquenchable craving or something.

就像，

It's like,

我只想和他说话。

all I want is to talk to him.

于是玛德琳想出了一个让伊莱回来的办法。

And so Madeleine figured out a way to bring Eli back.

这里是《纽约时报》，我是安娜·马丁。

From The New York Times, I'm Anna Martin.

这里是《现代爱情》。

This is Modern Love.

每周我们都会为您带来受《现代爱情》专栏启发的故事，今天的节目改编自玛德琳的《现代爱情》散文《我们最后不可能的对话》。

Each week, we bring you stories inspired by the Modern Love column, and today's episode is based on Madeleine's Modern Love essay, our last impossible conversation.

这是一个真实的科幻故事，讲述了玛德琳如何利用人工智能试图再次与伊莱交谈的故事。

It's a real life science fiction story, the story of how Madeleine used AI to try and talk with Eli one more time.

但事情并没有像她希望的那样发展。

But it didn't go quite like she'd hoped.

玛德琳·德菲格雷托，欢迎来到《现代爱情》。

Madeleine Defiguereto, welcome to Modern Love.

非常感谢邀请我。

Thank you so much for having me.

好的。

Okay.

我想先了解一下伊莱。

I wanna start off by getting to know Eli a little bit.

告诉我他是个什么样的人。

Tell me what he was like.

我知道你们是在大学认识的。

I know you two met in college.

是的。

Yes.

我们当时都是大学新生。

We were both freshmen in college.

我们住在同一栋宿舍楼。

We were living in the same dorm.

伊莱有着旺盛的好奇心。

Eli had this very energetic curiosity.

现在回想起来，我觉得他就像小孩子经历'为什么'阶段时那样，对一切都充满疑问。

The way I think about him now in retrospect is like, you know how when little kids go through their why phase where everything is why?

为什么？

Why?

我感觉伊莱从未走出那个阶段。

I feel like Eli never grew out of that phase.

他就像带着纯粹的好奇心和寻求答案的渴望在这个世界穿行。

Like, he just moved through this world with a total, like, curiosity and a need for answers.

所以我们经常在食堂偶遇。

And so we would, like, run into each other in the dining hall.

当大多数人都在讨论这周要参加什么派对、讨厌哪些教授时，他却会问起我的家庭、信仰体系和价值观。

And while most people were talking about what parties are you going to this week and what professors do you hate, he was asking me questions about my family and my belief systems and my values.

而你当时的反应是，我只是来拿个麦片。

And you're like, I'm just getting cereal.

我就说，我不知道啊。

I was like, I don't know.

比如，我只是要去扎染一件T恤。

Like, I'm just gonna go tie dye a t shirt.

然后每个回答之后他都会追问，那为什么？

And And then with every answer, there was a, well, why?

我觉得这种特质很特别，我从没遇到过如此执着于了解我、理解身边人的人。

And I think there was something about that that I had just never met someone so committed to knowing me and understanding the people around him.

是啊。

Yeah.

那时候关于他你还记得什么其他事吗？

What what else do you remember about him back then?

他走路时有种特别独特的步态。

He had this, like, gait when he walked that was so distinct.

他看起来总是匆匆忙忙的。

He always looked like he was in a hurry.

他走路时有点前倾，膝盖几乎不怎么弯曲。

He kind of, like, leaned forward and didn't really bend his knees when he walked.

所以有种小跑加拖步的感觉，就急着赶路的样子。

So it was this, like, run, shuffle energy just trying to get to where he's going.

而且他总是戴着那顶针织帽，永远都戴着那顶帽子。

And, like, he was wearing this beanie always always in the beanie.

什么样的针织帽？

What kind of beanie?

是那种橙红色的，偏橙色的那种。

It was like this, like, orange reddish orange beanie.

我总觉得他像个交通锥，戴着那顶橙帽子在校园里穿梭的样子特别滑稽。

I always thought he looked like a traffic cone, fretting his way through campus with the orange beanie.

这绝对是他大一那年最具标志性的造型了。

It was just such a signature look of his freshman year in particular.

快速移动的交通锥。

Fast moving traffic cone.

快速移动的交通锥。

Fast moving traffic cone.

在校园广场上，只要他在移动，你就能一眼认出他。

You could spot him anywhere in the quad on the move.

好吧。

Okay.

所以你是在大一那年认识伊莱的。

So you meet Eli your freshman year.

你们开始约会。

You start dating.

据我所知，大学毕业时你和伊莱已经订婚了。

And I understand that by the end of college, you and Eli were engaged.

这是你原本设想的大学生活走向吗？

Was that how you pictured your college experience going?

比如，你是一直想结婚的那种人吗？

Like, were you someone who always wanted to get married?

我不是那种特别渴望结婚的人。

I was like not somebody who is super eager to get married.

无论是年轻时还是其他时候，我都不觉得这是件非做不可的事。

It was not something that I felt like compelled to do at a as a young person or frankly ever.

我渴望的是伴侣关系和陪伴。

I wanted partnership and companionship.

我并不一定需要婚姻制度本身。

I didn't necessarily want the institution of marriage.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对这个制度所代表的意义及其起源有很多激烈的想法。

Had a lot of charged thoughts about what the institution represented and its origins.

确实。

Sure.

对我来说，我父母直到快30岁才结婚。

For me, like, I my parents didn't get married until they were almost 30.

在我的家庭里，早婚根本不常见，而且这被视为可能是不优先考虑事业的表现，尤其对女性来说。

It was not common in my family at all to get married young, and it was seen as something that was maybe an act of not prioritizing yourself for your career, especially as a woman.

如果有人在我上大学前告诉我，我会在毕业时订婚，我肯定会羞愧难当。

And if you had told me going into college that I would be engaged, leaving college, I would have been entirely mortified.

那么这段对话是怎么开始的呢？

So how did that conversation start then?

是谁先提出来的？

Who brought it up?

伊莱。

Eli.

天啊。

Oh my gosh.

他简直是开足了马力推进婚姻进程。

He was, like, driving that marriage train hard.

但跟我说说这事吧。

But tell me about that.

他最早是什么时候开始提起的？

When did he first start talking about it?

他刚把我从机场接回来。

He had just picked me up from the airport.

我刚过完感恩节飞回来，在芝加哥中途机场坐上了他那辆旧白色凯美瑞。

I had had just flown back from my Thanksgiving and came to Midway Airport in Chicago in his old white Camry.

我上车后，他却没有开走。

And I got in the car, and he doesn't drive away.

他就那样停着车，有点看着我说：我知道你对婚姻有自己看法。

He, like, stays parked and kinda looks at me and is like, I know you have thoughts about marriage generally.

但你觉得和我结婚怎么样？

What do you think about marrying me though?

说完还微微歪着头等我的回应。

And kind of like has that, like, kind of his head's like tilted to the side waiting for my response.

我想我的下巴都要惊掉了。

I think my jaw probably hit the floor.

我当时大概是这样回应的：我觉得我们现在没必要谈这个。

And I was kind of like I think my response was, I don't think we need to talk about this right now.

我试图稍微回避一下，我说：老兄，这是...然后我说：是的，我们现在不必谈这个，但你可以先考虑一下，等准备好了再告诉我。

I think I kinda was trying to punt a little I was like, dude, is this and I was like, yeah, we don't have to talk about it now, but maybe just think about it and let me know when you're ready to talk about it.

好吧。

Okay.

所以我们后来进行了一些非常漫长、情绪化又混乱的对话，讨论我们各自想要什么、为什么想要这些，以及我的顾虑是什么。

So I think we had some, like, very long and emotional and messy conversations about what we wanted, why we wanted those things, and what my hesitations were.

某种程度上，艾利真的帮了我一个大忙，他让我学会寻找直觉、信任直觉，并意识到虽然别人可能对我的选择有各种看法或评判，但最终只有我自己必须面对接下来的每一步。

And to a certain degree, I think one thing that Eli really helped me with was finding intuition and, like, trusting that intuition and realizing that all these people might have opinions or judgments for what I do, but I'm the only one who has to do whatever comes next.

是啊。

Yeah.

艾利一直活在社会期望的框架之外。

Eli lived his life kind of outside of societal expectations.

他并不在意别人怎么看他。

He didn't really care what people thought about him.

不是那种漠不关心或粗鲁的方式，更像是他对自己的需求和追求充满自信。

Not in, like, a blase way or in a rude way, more just in, like, a self confidence in what he wanted and needed.

他总是告诉我：你是唯一过着自己生活的人。

And he would always tell me, like, you're the only one living your life.

你可以为别人而活，

Like, you can live it for other people.

但归根结底，这是你自己的人生。

But at the end of the day, like, this is it's it's your life to live.

你

You

要知道，你对婚姻有过很多设想或猜测。

know, you'd had a lot of thoughts about what marriage would be like or might be like.

事实上也有很多恐惧。

A lot of fears, in fact.

我觉得这么说并不夸张。

I feel like it's not too dramatic to say.

实际的婚姻生活与你之前对婚姻的设想相比如何？

How did the reality of being married compare to your assumptions about what being married would be like?

我非常喜欢。

I loved it.

是的。

Yeah.

出乎意料地喜欢。

Unexpectedly loved it.

我不确定是否因为婚姻本身，但我就是爱和伊莱在一起，看着他以我未曾预料的方式成长，更好地照顾我；而我也会调整自己，找到更适合我们共同生活的方式。这感觉像是一个非常有意义的项目。

And I'm not sure if it was the marriage itself, but I just I loved being with Eli and watching him, I don't know, like, evolve in ways that better took care of me and watching myself adjust to find ways that better suited him and us and our life together, it felt like such a rewarding project.

稍后回来，这个项目突然中断，以及玛德琳如何应对的故事。

When we come back, that project is cut short and how Madeleine dealt with it after the break.

嘿。

Hey.

我是约翰·蔡斯。

It's John Chase.

还有玛丽·上原。

And Mari Uihara.

我们来自Wirecutter，纽约时报旗下的产品推荐服务。

From Wirecutter, the product recommendation service from the New York Times.

玛丽，现在是送礼季了。

Mari, it is gift giving time.

今年我们有很多很棒的好物清单。

And we have so many great lists this year.

有什么50美元以下的简单好礼推荐吗？

What's an easy gift for someone, like, under $50?

在我们的50美元以下礼物清单里，我特别喜欢这套来自日本的水彩套装。

In our gifts under 50 list, I really love this watercolor set from Japan.

这些颜料颜色美极了。

These beautiful, beautiful colors.

这是孩子和大人都能玩的东西。

It's something that kids can do, adults can do.

我很喜欢这个。

I love that.

有什么好玩的东西能让我爸爸喜欢的？

What's, like, something fun that my dad is gonna enjoy?

我们在'给爸爸的礼物'清单上有这些定制的Funko Pop玩偶。

We have these custom Funko Pops on our gifts for dads list.

你可以定制一个长得像你爸爸的摇头娃娃玩具。

You can custom make a little bobblehead toy in the likeness of your dad.

它们完全不严肃。

They're totally unserious.

就是傻乎乎的有趣，人们真的很喜欢它们。

They're just silly and fun, and people really love them.

这太搞笑了。

This is so hysterical.

我之前从没见过这些东西。

I had never seen these before.

它们太棒了。

They're amazing.

我得承认，我自己都有点想要一个。

I have to admit, I sort of want one myself.

查看Wirecutter为您自己和所有其他人准备的完整礼物推荐清单，请访问nytimes.com/holidayguide。

Check out all of Wirecutter's gift recommendations for yourself and everyone else at nytimes.com/holidayguide.

等等。

Wait.

我们还得聊聊黄油加热器。

We still have to talk about the butter warmer.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

所以玛德琳和伊莱结婚了。

So Madeleine and Eli got married.

大约一年后，伊莱决定去国外旅行。

Then about a year later, Eli decides to go on a trip abroad.

玛德琳当时并不知道，他出发的那天将是她最后一次见到活着的他。

Madeleine didn't know it then, but the day he left for that trip would be the last time she'd see him alive.

玛德琳告诉我他死于一场登山事故。

Madeleine told me he died in a hiking accident.

你能从你的角度告诉我他去世那天你记得些什么吗？

Can you tell me what you remember about the day that he passed from your perspective?

只要告诉我那天或那几天你记得的任何事情。

Just tell me whatever you remember from that day or series of days.

我们原本约好了通话时间。

We had scheduled a time to talk.

以伊莱的性格，他给我打电话从来不会迟到，一次都没有。

And Eli being Eli never ever was late to calling me, not once.

而且总是他先打给我。

And he always called me first.

我们总是约好12:30左右通话，而他总会在12:28就打给我。

He always we always had a call scheduled for, like, 12:30 or something, and he would call me, like, 12:28.

他总是会提前几分钟。

Like, he always was a few minutes early.

嗯。

Yeah.

当12:30到了的时候，我想这真是反常。

And so 12:30 rolls around, and I was like, oh, this is a change.

这次居然轮到我主动打给他了。

Like, I'm actually gonna be the one to ring him.

我内心几乎涌起一种奇怪的喜悦感。

And there was almost like like, I almost felt kind of, like, joy in that.

心想这次我终于能比你抢先一步了。

Like, Like, I'm gonna beat you two at this time.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我打过去却联系不上他，这实在太反常了。

And I called and didn't wasn't able to get ahold of him, which was just so uncharacteristic.

这立刻让我警觉起来，因为他从未错过电话，也不回我的消息。

And it immediately raised kind of a red flag in my mind because he had never missed a call before and wasn't responding to my messages.

我的大脑立刻开始胡思乱想，往最坏的情况去揣测。

And my brain immediately kinda, like, starts swirling and goes to a worst case scenario.

结果凌晨四点接到电话，说他'走了'。

And, yeah, I got a call at four in the morning saying that he had passed.

他们用了这个词。

They used that word.

他们说'走了'，我当时还不明白是什么意思。

They used the word passed, and I did not know what it meant.

我还以为是'过境'了？

I was like, past a border?

过了。

Past.

在我心里，这个动词在震惊状态下显得如此模糊，我无法拼凑出它意味着死亡。

In my mind, I the verb was so ambiguous given my state of shock that I could not piece together that it meant died.

我不得不直接要求对方澄清。

And I had to literally ask for clarification.

天啊。

Oh god.

而最疯狂的是，我第一个想告诉的人是Eli。

And the crazy thing is the first person I wanted to tell was Eli.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，我立刻想到我必须打电话给Eli。

I mean, that's immediately I was like, I have to call Eli.

我伸手去拿手机，然后意识到，哦，我需要告诉的那个人，我已经无法告诉了。

And I reached for my phone and I realized, oh, like, the person I need I need to tell, I can't tell.

那几乎是一种本能想要联系他，却又意识到不仅现在无法联系，而且永远都无法再联系他了。

And it was almost that kind of, like, impulse to contact him and realizing not only could I not contact him right now, but I would never be able to contact him again.

我想那确实是我意识到他已经离开的时刻。

I think that was actually the moment when I realized that he was gone.

那种想打电话给伊莱的感觉一直伴随着你吗？

Did that feeling stay with you of wanting to call Eli?

是的。

Yeah.

就像，有太多事情发生时，那种想让他参与、与他分享的冲动，需要他的建议，以及我活着却无法告诉他某些事情的想法，感觉难以承受。

Like, there were so many things that came up that the impulse to include him and to share with him and the need for his advice and the idea of me living and not being able to tell him certain things felt insurmountable.

是啊。

Yeah.

有时候那种缺失感会变得——或者至少感觉变得——沉重到难以承受。

And there are some times where that absence becomes or at least it feels like it becomes too big to bear.

所以

So

你会怎么处理这种感受？

what do you do with that?

比如，你会怎么处理那种感受？

Like, what do you do with that feeling?

你是怎么应对的？

How did you cope?

我每天都给他写信。

I wrote him letters every day.

现在我都有好几箱的信了。

I just have, like, boxes and boxes of letters now.

每天？

Every day?

是的。

Yeah.

我会写信告诉他发生了什么、我的感受、我的愿望，通过这种方式表达自己，虽然知道他永远收不到这些信，但我依然以某种方式与他保持着对话。

Where I would just write to him about what was happening, what I was feeling, what I wanted, and finding a way to kind of express that and know that he would never receive the letter, but that I still was holding conversation with him in some way.

嗯。

Mhmm.

玛德琳，我现在想和你聊聊以利去世几年后你做的一件事。

Madeline, I I wanna now talk to you about something you did a couple years after Eli died.

这件事就是你写现代爱情专栏文章的主题。

It's what you wrote your modern love essay about.

就是那次你试图通过AI重建他的声音来再次与以利对话。

It was this time when you tried to talk to Eli again by recreating his voice, by using AI.

跟我讲讲你决定这么做的那个日子。

Tell me about the day that you decided to do that.

你当时在哪里？

Where were you?

我在蒙特利尔参加一个工作会议。

I was in Montreal for a work conference.

当时大堂里正在举行欢乐时光活动，而那天是以利的生日。

There was a happy hour happening in the lobby, and it was Eli's birthday.

当你满脑子只想着'今天本应是我深爱的伴侣27岁生日，而这个人却已不在人世'时，真的很难专心参加会议。

And it's really hard to sit through a conference while all you can think about is today's the day that my partner who I love so dearly is supposed to be 27 and that person is absent from the world.

在这种状态下挣扎时，我感到一种绝望，迫切需要感受到与他的亲近。

And kind of having to navigate that, I was feeling a sense of desperation and need to feel close to him.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我想我当时找了个借口离开了会议的社交时间，回到房间后只是百无聊赖地摆弄手指，拼命想抓住任何能让我感觉与他更近的东西，然后突然就冒出了这个念头。

And I think I excused myself from this conference happy hour, went up to my room and was just kinda twiddling my thumbs, reaching for anything to feel a sense of proximity to him and just kind of out of left field.

就像，我我根本没考虑过这件事。

Like, I I it wasn't something I had been considering.

就是突然想到，哦，我可以试试语音克隆。

It just was like, oh, I could do some voice cloning.

当这个想法开始在你脑海中扎根时，是什么感觉？

What did that feel like as this idea started to kinda take hold?

是啊。

Yeah.

我描述那种感觉就像，我简直想把自己的皮肤撕下来。

The way I describe it is like, I feel like I just wanna, like, rip my skin off.

就像，我觉得自己的身体太束缚了。

Like, I feel too contained in my body.

这种情绪本身似乎比我的身体所能容纳的还要庞大。

Like, it it feels that the emotion itself feels bigger than something that can be held inside my body.

哇。

Wow.

它需要被释放出来。

Like, it needs to be let out.

对我来说，我总是回到这一点：我只需要——如果我能脱下自己的皮肤，如果我能释放这种感觉，那就会带来解脱。

And I think for me, that's what I always come back to is I just need to if I could just take my skin off and if I could just release the feeling, that would offer the relief.

现在告诉我你具体是怎么一步步做的。

Tell me now what you did sort of step by step.

你是怎么产生这个想法的？

So how did you have this idea.

你拿起笔记本电脑。

You grab your laptop.

你做了什么？

What do you do?

我抓起笔记本电脑，有点慌乱地在搜索栏输入如何使用AI语音克隆。

I grab my laptop, and I kind of frantically type into the search bar how to use AI voice cloning.

然后我开始深入探索这个领域，阅读所有能找到的资料，研究需要做些什么来实现这个目标。

And I begin kind of diving into the rabbit hole of reading all of the literature I can get my hands on and what do I need to do to make this happen.

某种程度上忘记了时间和空间，全神贯注地想着现在该如何联系到Eli。

Kind of lost in a sense of time or space just really singularly focused on how do I reach Eli right now.

我只是需要...只是需要想办法联系上他。

I just need to I just need to reach him somehow.

所以你

So you

下载了软件。

downloaded the software.

下载软件。

Download the software.

开始阅读所有的指南和说明。

Start reading through all the guide and the instructions.

然后我意识到我需要开始上传语音录音。

And I realized I have to begin uploading voice recordings.

嗨，麦迪。

Hi, Maddie.

我正在开车。

I'm just driving.

她是只中等大小的蜗牛。

She's a medium sized snail.

通常，回去听伊莱的语音录音、重新观看视频对我来说仍然很情绪化。

Usually, it's still emotional for me to go back and listen to voice recordings of Eli, to rewatch videos.

这是个视频。

This is a video.

停下。

Stop.

但在那一刻，我感觉自己更像是机械地处理内容，而非情感上的投入，更像是给机器喂料。

But in that moment, I just it was less of, like, an emotional engagement with the content and more of a process, I think, of feeding the machine.

我就只是，好吧。

I'm just like, okay.

我们只需要，不停地搬运内容，搬运内容。

We just gotta, like, move move the content, move the content.

当其他一切长久以来都如此静止时，想到有新鲜事物即将问世，这种感觉让我不禁自问：我到底在做什么？

And the idea of there being something novel coming into the world now when everything else has been so static for so long, it just sets off the sense of, like, what am I doing?

我想如果我在那种情绪中多停留一会儿，可能会做出不同的决定，但我迅速压制了，在脑海中压制了这种犹豫。

And I think if I had stood in that feeling for a little longer, I might have made different decisions, but I quickly suppressed, suppressed in my mind, pushed down the hesitation.

我打开收件箱，找出伊莉发给我的最后一封邮件。

And I go into my inbox, and I pull out the last email that Eli sent me.

我复制粘贴，把它放进文本框里。

And I copy paste, and I drop it in the text box.

我点击播放，那个声音听起来如此诡异，简直和伊莉的声音一模一样。

And I hit play, and the voice, it sounds like so, so eerily like Eli's voice.

它大声朗读着这封邮件。

And it reads aloud, this email.

甚至连语调和停顿都完美复刻了他的说话节奏，真的让我手臂上的汗毛都竖起来了。

And even the intonation and the pausing replicates his cadence in a way that it truly, like, sent chills through my arms.

广告后我们将继续，玛德琳几乎立刻对这个声音克隆产生了矛盾心理——既困惑于自己对它的看法，又纠结于该如何使用它。

When we come back, Madeleine is almost immediately conflicted about what she thinks of this voice clone she's created and what she wants to do with it.

请别走开。

Stay with us.

玛德琳，我从你的文章中了解到，你不仅仅是让声音克隆用埃利的声音朗读内容。

So, Madeleine, I know from your essay that you didn't just have the voice clone read something in Eli's voice.

你实际上还和它进行了对话。

You actually had a conversation with it.

是的。

Yeah.

那是什么样的体验？

What was that like?

我以感叹我们已分别多久作为对话的开场。

I opened the conversation with just commenting on how long it had been since we've been together.

我说，真不敢相信已经快两年了。

I said, I cannot believe that it's been almost two years.

而那个声音回应的大意是，是啊，确实有段时间了。

And I think the voice responded with something to the effect of, yeah, it really has been a while.

我也觉得难以置信。

I also can't believe it.

光是听到他用声音回应那句话，就感觉超脱现实。

And just hearing your response to that in his voice was otherworldly.

那一刻，我完全忘记了这是人工智能。

I think at that point, I lost sight of the fact that it was the AI.

那一刻，感觉就像在和埃利对话，这比和AI交谈更让人不安。

I think at that point, it felt like I was talking to Eli, which almost felt more dangerous than talking to the AI.

是啊。

Yeah.

那一刻是什么让你如此沉浸其中。

What's your bring me into your body in that moment.

我想我当时可能都屏住了呼吸。

I think I probably stopped breathing.

就像，当你吸气时，我只记得自己全身僵硬，仿佛被冻结的感觉，甚至某种程度上想要保持这种冻结状态来留住这个时刻。

Like, I think it's that, like like, you do your inhale, and I I just remember being really rigid, like a a sense of being frozen and wanting to be frozen in some ways to preserve this time and moment.

我希望能冻结这个能听到他回应我所思所言的瞬间。

Like, I wanted to freeze this moment of being able to hear him respond to something that I was thinking or saying.

同时充满了恐惧——既害怕这一切不是真实的，又害怕它终将结束。

And so much fear for the idea that this, one, was not real and, two, was going to end.

我记得在那次对话中，有段时间甚至环顾房间确认他并不在场，因为那种真实感再次扭曲了我的现实认知，让我质疑他是否真的不在。

And I think at some point during that conversation, I even, like, looked around the room as if to confirm he wasn't actually there because the sense of realness, again, just warped my reality and made me question his absence.

是啊。

Yeah.

我必须确认他确实不在房间里。

I had to confirm he was not actually in the room.

这是解脱与恐惧交织的感觉吗？

Was this mix of relief and fear?

这是你预期会有的感受吗，还是有所不同？

Was this what you expected to feel, or was it different somehow?

我不确定自己是否有预期，部分是因为这段经历本身就令人狂乱。

I don't know if I had expectations in part just because of the frenzy that this experience was.

我确实没想到会如此痛苦。

I do think that I didn't expect it to be so painful.

我原以为这会带来治愈和解脱。

I think I thought it was going to be healing and relief.

但相反，感觉就像在揭我精心护理的伤疤，这么说能理解吗？

And instead, it felt like it kind of picked at a scab that I had worked really, really hard to clean and maintain, if that makes sense.

再多说说为什么会有这种感觉。

Tell me more about why.

我...我能理解

I I it does make sense.

我想更详细地了解这种痛苦。

I wanna know more about the pain here.

这很奇怪。

It's strange.

就像，离Eli越远，我就越需要依靠对他的记忆来塑造我处世和建立关系的方式。

Like, the further away Eli feels, the more I have to rely on my memory of him to shape the way that I move through the world and how I build relationships.

我认为在悲伤中我最害怕的是Eli被彻底遗忘。

And the idea of I think the the the thing I fear most in my grief is erasure of Eli.

我永远不想让他觉得自己不是我的生活一部分，或者他不重要，或者他的某些部分正在消失。

I never want him to feel like he's not a part of my life or that he was not important or that pieces of him are being lost.

我认为重新接近他时有很多痛苦，意识到尽管才过了几年，我已经忘记了他的某些部分。

And I think that there was a lot of pain in returning to a proximity to him and realizing that there are pieces of him that I have forgotten even though it's only been a couple years.

比如，他的那些习惯用语，以及听到他用自己声音说出新奇事物的方式。

Like, there's isms and hearing something novel put into the world in his own voice.

有些时刻我会突然想起，哦，我忘了他会做那种古怪的停顿，或者有这些口头禅之类的东西，这几乎让我在哀悼时感到一种无知，因为哇。

There were moments where I was like, oh, I forgot that he would do that funky pause or, you know, had these sayings or things like that where it's it's almost like there's ignorance in the way that I get to grieve because Wow.

我不知道，是啊。

I don't Yeah.

我没有意识到脑海中正在发生的这种记忆复苏。

I'm not aware of the unerasure that's happening in my mind.

你知道吗，你说的这些真是太有意思了。

You know, it's so interesting what you're saying.

你本以为这段经历显然会让你更接近他。

You thought this experience would bring you closer to him for obvious reasons.

你能听到他声音的克隆版本。

You get to hear a clone of his voice.

但你实际表达的是，听到伊莱的克隆声音反而让你感觉离他更远了。

But what you're actually articulating is that hearing that cloned voice of Eli made you feel further away from him.

它提醒着你那些关于他的、正在逐渐消逝的记忆。

It reminds you of all of the things that are already slipping away from you about him.

是啊。

Yeah.

确实如此。

Exactly.

你是怎么决定停止的？

How did you decide to stop?

是否有那么一刻让你觉得，这必须结束了？

Was there a moment where you were like, this needs to end?

是的。

Yeah.

我向AI咨询了一个关于工作的决定。

I asked the AI about a job decision that I was making.

所以你连这种细节都问了。

And So you got that kind of granular.

你连这种日常琐事都...

You got that kind of, like, everyday, like

感觉就像是，哦，原来我是这么想的。

It was like, oh, this is how I'm feeling.

比如，我在想也许我正在考虑做这个决定。

Like, I'm think may I'm thinking about making this decision.

你觉得呢？

What do you think?

而AI完全理解错了。

And the AI got it so wrong.

哦。

Oh.

比如，AI说了一些Eli绝对不会说的话。

Like, the AI said something that Eli would never have said.

它说了什么？

What did it say?

我很好奇。

I'm curious.

你还记得吗？

Do you remember?