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你认为自尊心是从何而来的?
Where do you think self esteem comes from?
天啊。
Gosh.
真希望我们知道答案。
I wish we knew.
我是说,我认为首先要说的是这有点神秘。
I mean, I think the the first thing to say is is a bit of a mystery.
如果我们知道如何封装这种东西——你看人类成就的差异,这很难用智力来解释。
If we knew how to bottle this stuff, you know, if you look at the differences between what human beings achieve, it isn't easily explained by intelligence.
所有证据都表明,大体上说,智力只能解释成就巨大差异中的一小部分,这很令人沮丧。
Everything shows that that, broadly speaking, you know, intelligence accounts for the smaller portion of the massive differences in achievement, and that's galling.
这...这根本不是教育体系真正关注的。
It's it it it isn't what the school system is really about.
我认为,许多成就关乎想象力,关乎突破障碍,梦想一个更美好、更有趣的世界等等。
And I think, you know, a lot of achievement is about imagination, and is about breaking through obstacles to, dreaming of a better world, a more interesting world, etcetera.
自尊心在这个故事中占有一席之地,因为我认为自尊心就是在说:'这事可能会发生在我身上'。
Self esteem is somewhere in that story because I think self esteem is about saying, it might happen with me.
这件事可能是——我可以掌控这件事,无论它是什么。
This thing could be I could be in charge of this thing, whatever it is.
我认为阶级在这里也起着作用。
And I think class plays a role here.
工人阶级背景带来的重大伤害之一,就是它往往让你觉得世界由他人掌控,你只能应对他们设置的障碍,却无权移除这些障碍。
One of the great injuries of a working class background is that it tends to give you a sense that other people are controlling the world, and you have to negotiate the obstacles they put in place, but you don't get to remove those obstacles.
你只需要想办法绕过他们。
You just have to work your way around them.
是啊。
Yeah.
典型的中产阶级成长环境,英国意义上的中产阶级,你知道的,你会被灌输一种观念,认为像你这样的人塑造了世界,这会提升你的自尊心。
Typical middle class upbringing, middle class in The UK sense, you know, you you you get imbued with a feeling that human beings like you make the world, and that raises your self esteem.
你知道,传统上,这会有天壤之别——比如你叔叔碰巧是公务员系统里某个管事的人,或者你那有点烦人的二表弟在财政部工作之类的。
You know, traditionally, it's an enormous difference to you know, if your uncle happens to be, you know, the guy in the civil service who does whatever or or your your slightly annoying second cousin, you know, works in the treasury or something.
明白吗?
You know?
这会改变你对现实的认知,因为你会想:我当然能做点什么,看看那些曾经在厨房里见过的并不出众的人现在都混得不错。
This changes your sense of reality because you think, well, of course, I can do something because look at those not that impressive people who I once saw around the kitchen, etcetera.
所以自尊心很大程度上在于思考:我比别人强在哪里?
So a lot about self esteem is thinking, how do I stack up next to other people?
世界是由神明塑造的,还是广义上由你我这样的人塑造的?
Is the world shaped by gods or broadly speaking by people like you and I?
我知道我们在宗教场所,你在观众眼里一定显得很神圣。
I know we're in a religious place, and you must be seeming godly to the audience.
但好在事实并非如此。
But but the good thing is you're not.
我认为现代技术的好处之一,就是它通过提供极其细致的近距离观察,让世人看清了那些所谓掌权者的真实面目。
And I think, you know, that's one of the good things about modern technology is that it's helped to show the world that those it because it's given a very granular close-up sense of people in so called positions of power or authority, etcetera.
这在某种程度上帮助实现了想象层面的公平竞争环境。
And that's helped to kind of imaginatively level the imaginative playing field in a way.
所以你感觉和他们更亲近了吗?
So You feel closer to them?
你感觉和他们更亲近了。
You feel closer to them.
你看,他们也是普通人,这一点很能鼓舞人心。
You see that, you know, they're humans too, and that can be inspiring.
我朋友录制播客时遇到一件事,需要个名字,我们后来称之为'酸奶盖时刻'。
There was a an incident that a friend had when recording a podcast, which, I needed a name for, and we've come to call it a yogurt lid moment.
当时他正和一位非常著名的作家准备录制,他崇拜这人很久了,文学巨匠嘛,带着摄像团队。
So he was sitting down to record with a very famous author, and he's idolized this guy for a very long time and, know, titan of literature, down his camera team.
我们都在布置设备,他就在嘉宾家里。
We're all setting everything up, and he's in the guest's house.
这时嘉宾问:'我去拿个酸奶你们介意吗?'
And the guest says, would you mind if I went and get a yogurt?
他就说:'这是你家,你的酸奶,请便。'
And he's like, well, it's your house, your yogurt.
请继续。
Please continue.
嘉宾走开去冰箱拿了酸奶,回来坐在我朋友对面。
The guest walks away, goes to the fridge, and opens it up, gets the yogurt out, sits down opposite my friend.
大家还在忙活着。
Everyone's still pottering around.
我朋友看着这个他崇拜了几十年、视若神明的大作家,盯着酸奶看了会儿,揭开盖子,把盖子凑到嘴边舔了起来。
And my friend sat opposite this guy that he'd revered for decades, you know, just saw as this sort of untouchable demigod, watched him look at the yogurt, take the lid off, put it up to his face, and then lick the lid of the yogurt.
他说,就在那一刻,我眼前的迷雾散去了,我看到了他作为凡人的一面,那个酸奶盖瞬间,这段奇特而凡俗的旅程。
And he said, at that moment, the veils fell from my eyes, and I saw him as the fallible human that's and it's that the yogurt lid moment, this sort of weird, mortal trip.
想想那种方式
Think of the way
我们被引入生活的方式,真的。
that we're introduced to life, really.
你知道,我们最初非常渺小,周围都是看似无所不能的巨人。
You know, we start off very small, and we're surrounded by very large people who seem to know how to do extraordinary things.
他们能把球扔过树顶。
You know, they can throw a ball over a tree.
他们能说外语,你知道的。
They can you know, they know how to speak a foreign language.
他们能解复杂的数学题等等,而我们如此渺小。
They can do very complicated math, etcetera, and we are tiny.
要花很长时间才能明白,这些神祇般的巨人也只是凡人。
And it takes such a long time to think, actually, these gods, these colossi are just human.
所以,你知道,首要的阶级差异可以说是童年。
So, you know, the the the number one sort of class differentiator is is childhood as it were.
因为我们最初都处于这个非常从属的阶级——孩童。
It it because we all start in this very subordinate class, which is the child.
嗯。
Mhmm.
然后我们仰望成年人。
And we then look up to the adult.
我是说,想想那些时候——我不知道你有没有这种经历——你在学校然后到了周末,你去商店突然看到法语老师在货架间,你会想:这人怎么会在这儿?
I mean, think of those times when I don't know if you had this, but, you know, you're at school and then it's the weekend and you go to the shops and suddenly you see the French teacher in the aisles of the shop and you think, what's that person doing there?
你看,那是格雷戈里先生。
You know, there's mister Gregory.
他正在买麦片。
He's he's buying cereal.
然后你会觉得那个人突然就...你知道...回到了你的认知盲区。
And you think that guy is just, you know, comes back to your yoga point point.
那个人也是普通人,而我们总是要不断重新适应这个认知。
It's that guy's human, and and we're always catching up with that idea.
X或Y都是普通人。
X or y is human.
有趣的是,这个最基本的认知却总能让人感到些许意外。
And isn't it interesting that very basic thought is still always a bit of a surprise.
我们总是对这个认知反应迟钝。
We're always on the back foot with that insight.
为什么这与自尊心有关?
Why is that related to self esteem?
为什么自尊心不能仅存在于我们自身的系统内?
Why is self esteem not contained within our own system?
克里斯,因为我们有个很不幸的认知偏差:我们是从内部了解自己,而只能通过他人选择展示的部分来了解别人。
Chris, because we've got this very unfortunate thing that we know ourselves from the inside, and we know other people only from what they choose to tell us.
因此我们面临着严重的信息不对称,我们觉得自己如此怪异、难堪且充满缺陷。
And so we've got this massive imbalance of data, and we are so weird to ourselves and so embarrassing and so flawed.
任何一个稍有自知之明的人,如果诚实的话,都会发现自己很难忍受自己,因为我们脑海中那些念头——你知道的,如果被公之于众,我们所有人都会立即被逐出教门。
Anyone with a modicum of self awareness is going to have, if they're honest, should have a slightly hard time tolerating themselves because the stuff that goes on in our minds the stuff that goes on in our minds is you know, if it was published, I mean, we'd all be, you know, excommunicated immediately.
这并不一定意味着我们有多么堕落。
That's not a sign necessarily that we're so degenerate.
这只是表明我们仍然很难承认在人际层面上作为人类的真实面目。
It's just a sign that we we're having still a very hard time admitting what it is to be human at an interpersonal level.
嗯。
Mhmm.
尽管我们有各种分享数据的方式,但这仍然让人感到某种惊讶。
We're still despite all these ways we have of sharing data, it's still a sort of surprise.
我的意思是,你知道在一段亲密关系或友谊中,深夜时你能向新朋友倾诉的那种感觉。
I mean, you know what it's like in a relationship or a close friendship when, you know, late at night, you're able to go to your new pal.
你能去问,你知道,你有没有过那种时候?
You're able to go, you know, do you know, do you ever have that thing when?
然后他们说,有啊。
And they go, yeah.
有啊。
Yeah.
有啊。
Yeah.
就是那种事。
That thing.
而且从来没人提起过。
And no one's ever mentioned it.
不。
No.
你知道的,社会上仍然存在一种沉默。
You know, there's still a societal silence.
然后亲密感就源于能够说,我们有点怪。
And then the intimacy that grows from being able to say, we're a bit weird.
事实上我们和其他人一样都有点怪,但仍然存在知识的失衡,以及那种感觉——我是说,你知道孩子们常说的那种话,比如'我家好奇怪'。
Now the truth is we're a bit weird like everybody else, but there is still, an imbalance of of knowledge, and and a sense I mean, you you know that thing where kids say things like, my family's so weird.
别人家看起来都很正常。
Other people's families are so normal.
你知道,我去过比利家。
You know, I went to I went to Billy's family.
他们...他妈妈真的很正常。
They you know, his mom's really normal.
为什么...为什么你们这么奇怪?
Why why are you so weird?
当然,过段时间你就会发现比利家也不正常。
And then, of course, in time, you realize Billy's family's not normal.
你只是不了解他们。
You just don't know them.
懂吗?
You know?
我们对他人的了解远不如对自己的了解,因此我们总觉得身边人比别人更疯狂些。
We don't know other people as well as we know ourselves, and so we tend to think, that those close to us are a bit more mad than anybody else.
你看,我妈真的很生气,我前女友们也是。
We go, know, my mom, she's really mad or my my ex are really mad.
我是说,在约会和恋爱世界里,男人会觉得女人很疯狂。
I mean, this goes on in in in the dating world, relationship world where, you know, men will go, women, so crazy.
你知道的,女人真的很疯狂。
You know, women are really crazy.
然后在女性圈子里,她们会说'男人啊,就是那样'你懂吧?
And then, you know, in a female camp, women are going, oh, men, that's just just really you know?
而你想说'听着,伙计们'。
And you wanna go, look, guys.
这是...这是所有人的问题。
It's bo it's everybody.
不是男人的问题。
It's not men.
不是女人的问题。
It's not women.
不是年轻人的问题。
It's not the young.
不是老年人的问题。
It's not the oldest.
是所有人近距离相处时的问题。
It's everybody close-up.
只是我们常常有幸不用近距离了解别人。
It's just that we often have the privilege of not knowing people close-up enough.
嗯。
Mhmm.
因此,我们仍然抱有幻想。
And therefore, we still retain illusions.
我是说,你在旅行中就能体会到这一点。
I mean, you you get this in travel.
对吧?
Right?
人们会说,哦,希腊人。
People go, oh, the Greeks.
其实他们真的比我们强。
Well, they're really they're they're better than us.
你知道,我们自身存在各种缺陷。
You know, we're we've got all these flaws.
美国人嘛,他们有种说不清的特质。
The Americans, they have a certain whatever.
当然,一旦你真正融入那个社会,就会觉得不过如此。
And then, of course, once you're inside that society, you go, nah.
天下乌鸦一般黑。
It's the same everywhere.
但无论如何,我们需要幻想,这让我们活得有盼头。
But, anyway, we we've gotta have illusions and bless us.
所以人们越接近你,就越能看到他们的缺点。
So the closer that people get to you, the more you see their flaws.
但遗憾的是,没有人能像你自己那样亲近你。
But, unfortunately, no one is ever going to be as close to you as you are.
而你面临着巨大的不对称性,百万分之一的比特率差异,你能看到的关于自己的数据与那些摇摆不定、自我怀疑的内心拉锯战。
And you have this huge asymmetry, a million to one, of the bit rate of data that you're able to see of yourself and the vacillations, the self doubt as you ping pong back and forth.
我该去吗?我不知道是否该去买那个。
Should I go I don't know if I should go and buy that.
我应该…我不知道是否该买那双鞋。
I should I don't know if I should get that pair of shoes.
我该买那双…我不打算买那双鞋了。
I should get that pair I'm not gonna get that pair of shoes.
不买。
No.
我可能会买。
I might do.
当你入睡时,你会想:我昨晚整夜未眠,就为纠结要不要买一双鞋。
And you go to sleep, you think, I I spent last night staying awake wondering about whether or not I was going to buy a pair of shoes.
我真是疯了。
I'm insane.
我是说,我肯定得被关起来——连这种想法都不敢告诉配偶。
I mean, I I must be committed not knowing that that is the sort of thought that even you wouldn't tell your spouse.
我昨晚没睡好。
I I didn't sleep well last night.
为什么?
Why?
我在想这双鞋。
I was thinking about this pair of shoe.
你觉得它太普通无聊了,甚至都不屑提起这种事。
You it it's so mundane and boring that you don't even share that sort of thing.
另一个问题是,从内心来看,人很难真正了解自己。
The other thing is from the inside, it's very hard to know who you are.
有趣的是,人独处太久时总会有点疯癫。
And one of the interesting things is how people go a bit mad when they spend too long alone.
长时间独处时,你会分不清某些念头是否太过偏激。
If you spend a long time alone, you sort of you don't know certain thoughts go a little too far.
有人陪伴的好处就在于——知道为什么我们需要他人吗?
And one of the great things about company, you know, why do we need other people?
他们能在大小事上稍微约束我们。
Just to be able to kinda hold us slightly in check-in small ways and large.
他们会说:'不行'。
They they kind of go, no.
'这个想法有点太极端了'之类的话。
That thought is getting a little too extreme, whatever.
他们帮我们定义自我。
They they they define us.
但人们帮助我们的另一件事,是帮我们认清那个自己都捉摸不透的清晰形象。
But also the other thing that people help us to do, other people, is give us a compact sense of who we are that eludes us.
所以我看到你就会说:'那是克里斯'。
So I see you and I go, there's Chris.
当你独自一人时,你不会认为自己是克里斯。
Now when you're all alone, you don't think you're Chris.
你只会认为我是宇宙中的意识。
You just think I'm consciousness in the universe.
我只是,你知道的,一张捕捉思想和印象的巨大网络。
I'm just, you know, I'm just a a giant net that's capturing thoughts and impressions.
你不知道自己拥有名字、开始、中间或结束等等。
You don't know that you have a name, a beginning, a middle, or an end, etcetera.
当我们身处人群中时,人们会说,哦,你就是那个做这件事的人,或者你知道,其他人对我们的漫画式看法实际上对我们很有帮助,因为你会想,哦,你知道,我就是那个相对简单的灵魂。
And when we're in company, people go, oh, you're that guy who does this or, you know, you've so other people's caricatured vision of us is actually quite helpful to us because you think, oh, you know, I'm I'm that relatively simple soul
他人对我们的看法,给了我们一种故事感。
that other people us, gives us a sense of story.
是的。
Yeah.
还因为,你知道,如果我看着你,你看起来是统一的。
And also because, you know, if I look at you, you look unified.
你知道的,你有两只眼睛、一个鼻子、一张嘴。
You know, you got two eyes, a nose, a mouth.
你知道的,你相对紧凑,等等。
You know, you're relatively compact, etcetera.
但你内心是白蚁。
But inside you Termite.
感受不到任何这些。
Feel any of that.
这是一片无边无际、形态模糊的风景。
It's it's a it's a vast shapeless landscape.
这是否意味着自尊与冒名顶替综合症有关?
Is this, is self esteem related to impostor syndrome?
我认为冒名顶替综合症已经是我经常看到的现象,现在我越来越强烈地感觉到,这个世界对我有所期待——可能是我以前确实做到过的事情——但我害怕自己能否再次达成。
I I think impostor syndrome was already something that I was seeing a lot of, and now I'm seeing more about increasingly this sense that the world expects something of me that maybe I've even actually done previously, but I'm scared about whether or not I'm going to be able to deliver it.
听着。
Look.
我知道冒名顶替综合症会给人带来困扰,但如果有人受其困扰,我反而感到安心。
I think it's I know impostor syndrome causes people problems, but, I'm reassured if somebody suffers from impostor syndrome.
这是诚实的表现。
It's a sign of honesty.
这是自我认知的体现。
It's a sign of self awareness.
当然,它也有极端表现,你知道,这会给人们带来很多痛苦。
Of course, it has its extreme versions, which, you know, causes people a lot of pain.
但如果一个人意识到自己可能是个骗子,或可能在施展骗术,这就是诚实。
But if someone is aware that they might be a charlatan or might be putting off a confidence trick, that's honesty.
这很棒。
That's great.
这是一个起点。
That's a that's a starting point.
你知道,就像意识到自己可能邪恶的人其实是个好人。
You know, it's just like somebody who knows they might be evil is a good person.
你知道吗?
You know?
邪恶之人从不忧虑。
Evil people don't worry.
他们可能很邪恶。
They might be evil.
所以你知道,如果你有时会想'我是个骗子吗',那你很可能是个真实坦诚的人。
So it's you know, you're you're likely to be authentic and genuine if sometimes you think, am I a fake?
这是个好迹象。
That's a good sign.
就像意识到自己车技差是不开快车的良好开端一样,这是个好的起点。
It's a good starting point in the same way as identifying that you're a bad driver is a good starting point for not driving fast.
100%同意。
100%.
但这并不必然让你在路上表现得更好。
But it doesn't necessarily make you better on the roads.
那么我们该何去何从?
So where do we go to?
怎样才能成为更好的驾驶员?
Where is becoming a better drive?
好的。
Okay.
我的冒名顶替综合症,谢谢你,阿拉姆。
My impostor syndrome, thank you, Alam.
你曾说过,我还没自大到看不见自己的缺点。
You've told me that I'm not so up my own ass that I can't see my own flaws.
好耶。
Hooray.
开始着手解决这个问题了吗?
Starting to work through that?
那关于更好地认识自身能力和潜力呢?
What about starting to get a better sense of our own capacities and capabilities?
听着。
Look.
很大程度上,这需要与世界碰撞,在现实中检验自己。
A lot of it is bouncing against the world and testing yourself against reality.
除非你尝试过某件事,否则很难知道自己的才能。
It's very hard to know your talents until you've had a go at something.
而且我认为我们都有这种感觉:有些事情对我们来说比其他人更容易。
And I think we all have this sense sometimes that some things come more easily to us than than to others.
你知道,我不知道伟大的网球选手如何起步,但他们肯定有种感觉。
You know, I don't know how great tennis players start, but they must have a sense.
哦,我能击中那个球,而且效果相当不错。
Oh, I was able to hit that ball and that that worked quite well.
或者一个伟大的作家会想,我能写出一个相当不错的小句子,这就是逐渐建立信心的开始。
Or a great writer is able to think, I was able to pull off quite a nice little sentence there, and that's the beginning of a kind of growing confidence.
而且,你知道,你需要这样的开始。
And, you you know, you need a you need that kind of start.
要知道,我认为美好的生活并不要求你事事精通。
And, you know, I think a good life doesn't require you to do everything.
它只需要你做那些你觉得自己有能力且特别擅长的事情。
It it requires you to do the things that you feel you're capable of and that you're especially good at.
比如我不会打网球,这对我来说并不丢人。
It's no humiliation for me that I can't play tennis, for example.
如果有人嘲笑说'你太差劲了',因为这方面我感觉不到天赋,但在遣词造句这个小领域里,我确实感受到了才能。
If somebody goes, you know, you're terrible Because this I don't sense a talent, but I do sense talent in that tiny area of assembling words.
就是那个你懂的领域?
That's the area that you know?
但数学,我实在不行。
But maths, I can't do.
懂吗?
You know?
建筑我也搞不定,诸如此类。
Architecture, I can't really do, etcetera.
太多事情我都做不来。
So many things I can't do.
所以关键在于找到那些小小的甜蜜点。
So it's about finding those little sweet spots.
人生最大的谜题之一就是:人们如何找到自己的天职?
And one of the great puzzles in life is how do people find their vocation?
人们如何发现自己的核心身份与才能?
How do people find their core identity, their talents?
我有时觉得这就像你拿着金属探测器在地面上扫描,偶尔会听到一声微弱的哔哔声,那是充满强度、兴趣和深度思考的信号。
And I sometimes think of it as like you're passing a metal detector over the ground, and very occasionally, something will let off a little beep, a beep of intensity, of interest, of heightened thoughtfulness.
你会认为在这地面之下藏着真实自我的碎片。
And you think there's a fragment here below the ground of my true self.
如今我的真实自我已经支离破碎,或者说它是以解体的形态存在的。
Now my true self was shattered or it it came in disassembled form.
它被掩埋了。
It's buried.
它散落在一片广阔的区域。
It's scattered over a vast area.
而生命的任务就是从这些线索中重新拼凑它。
And the task of life is to recreate it from hints.
我认为,你知道,其中一个巨大的挑战——我是说,想想那些重大挑战,每个年轻人都会遇到——就是我该怎样度过我的人生?
And I think that, you know, one of the great challenges I mean, think one of the big, big challenges, and it happens to every young person, is what should I do with my life?
这是核心问题之一,某种程度上是一种哲学命题。
It's it's one of it's one of these central questions, a philosophy in a way.
因为除非你是极少数幸运儿,否则你必须自己拼凑出未来的蓝图。
Because unless you're a very rare person, you will have to assemble a vision of your future.
它不会现成地出现,天上也不会传来声音告诉你'你注定是会计师'或'你将成为高山滑雪运动员'。
It's not gonna come ready made, and there won't be a voice from the sky going, you know, you are an accountant or you are a downhill skier.
这需要你自己去拼凑,而且是一点一点地拼凑。
It's gonna be something you have to assemble, and you'll assemble it in bits.
你必须重新拼凑那个在很久以前就已破碎、如今散落在广阔天地的'原始雕像'——也就是你自己。
You'll you'll have to recreate the the the original statue of you that was shattered a long time ago and that lies across a vast area.
就像自我考古学家一样,你必须将其构建出来,并且要从那些微小的兴趣信号中逐步建立。
So like an archaeologist of the self, you have to build that out, and and you have to build it up out of those little beeps of interest.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我认为其中有一点很好的是嫉妒。
And I think a good thing there is envy.
人们谈论嫉妒时总是用非常低声下气、难为情的方式。
People speak very, very low and embarrassed way about envy.
你知道,人们认为不该有嫉妒心。
You know, you're not supposed to feel envious.
我认为当你感到嫉妒的信号时,往往是因为在别人的生活中看到了你真正抱负和自我的一小部分。
I think very often when you feel a beep of envy, it's because there's a fragment of your true ambition and your true self in the life of another person.
与其想着'我必须逃离它',不如说'不'。
And rather than go, oh, I must run away from it, go, no.
这是一个线索。
This is a clue.
你嫉妒的是什么?
What is there that you are envious of?
通常,嫉妒是一种非常不准确的情绪。
And often, envy is a very inaccurate emotion.
我们嫉妒某个人的全部,但实际上往往只是想要他们的一部分特质。
We envy the whole of someone when actually it tends to be a part of them that we want.
所以我们常说:我嫉妒那个歌手、演员、商人等等。
And so we go, I'm envious of that singer, actor, business person, etcetera.
你想去的话,等一下。
You wanna go, hang on.
等一下。
Hang on.
这不是全部。
It's it won't be the whole thing.
深入挖掘一下。
Drill into it.
这里真正核心的是什么?
What what really is core here?
你可能会意识到,其实不是他们的名声或金钱。
And you might realize it's actually not their fame, their money.
可能是他们亲手劳作,或是住在远离人群的小木屋里,诸如此类。
So it's that they work with their hands or it's that they, you know, live in a log cabin somewhere far away from other people or whatever it is.
所以对待嫉妒最好的方式,是将其视为自身抱负的指南,而非天生嫉妒与不足的标志。
So the best thing to do with envy is to see it as a guide for your own ambition, not a sign of your innate jealousy and inadequacy.
这是一个线索。
It's a clue.
我总认为嫉妒是七宗罪中唯一不会让人感到愉悦的。
I always think about envy as the only one of the seven deadly sins that doesn't feel good.
提醒我其他七宗罪是什么,暴食?
Remind me of the other seven deadly sins, gluttony?
暴食、懒惰。
Gluttony, sloth.
懒惰让人感觉不好。
Sloth doesn't feel good.
你不觉得懒惰会让人感觉不好吗?
You don't think sloth feels good?
难道你没有在一个周日下午看过些糟糕的电视节目,
Have you not spent a good Sunday afternoon watching some horrible TV
那些展现懒惰常带来的自我厌恶的节目。
show on the the self disgust that sloth often brings.
对吧?
Right?
你知道,你躺在沙发上刷着Instagram,同时意识到更好的自己正在被侵蚀。
You know, you're lying on the sofa, and you know that you're you're, you know, you're scrolling Instagram, so and you know that your better self is being eroded.
所以这就是带着负罪感的懒惰。
And so there's guilty sloth.
对吧?
Right?
有益的懒惰和负罪的懒惰。
Good sloth and guilty sloth.
是啊。
Yeah.
是啊。
Yeah.
有意思。
Interesting.
你可能听我提到过Element这款产品。
You've probably heard me talk about Element before.
来吧。
Come on.
坦白说,因为我离不开它,过去三年里每个早晨我都是用它开始的。
Frankly, that's because I'm dependent on it, and it's how I've started every morning for the last three years.
Element是一款美味电解质饮品,只含必需成分,毫无多余添加。
Element is a tasty electrolyte drink mixed with everything that you need and nothing that you don't.
每包便携装都含有科学配比的电解质、钠、钾和镁,无糖、无色素、无人工添加剂,杜绝垃圾成分。
Each grab and go stick pack contains a science backed electrolyte ratio, sodium, potassium, and magnesium with no sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients, or any other junk.
它在缓解肌肉痉挛疲劳、优化大脑健康、调节食欲和抑制 cravings 方面效果显著。
It plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue while optimizing brain health, regulating appetite, and curbing cravings.
橙子口味在冰水里冲泡后就像甘咸的橙花蜜,我能真切感受到使用前后的差异。
The orange flavor, uh-huh, in a cold glass of water is like a sweet, salt orangey nectar, and I genuinely feel the difference versus when I've started it and when I've used it and when I haven't.
他们提供无条件退款政策,时限不限,你可以尽情试用。
Anyway, they've got a no questions asked refund policy with an unlimited so you can buy it and try it for as long as you want.
如果因任何原因不满意,他们会全额退款,甚至无需退回产品。
And if you don't like it for any reason, they will give you your money back, and you don't even need to return the box.
这充分说明他们对产品有多自信。
That's how confident they are that you'll love it.
另外美国境内免运费。
Plus, they offer free shipping in The US.
现在通过下方描述区链接或访问drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom,首单即可获赠Element最受欢迎口味的试饮装。
And right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
那是drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom。
That's drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
关于冒充者综合征,我认为当它被过度放大时,尤其是伴随着低自尊,会演变成一种非常刺耳的自我批判内心声音,近乎自我憎恶。
The impostor syndrome thing, I think when it gets turned up too high, especially with low self esteem, can turn into this sort of very loud critical inner voice, this sort of self hatred thing.
我在想,鉴于我们都已经对自己相当苛刻——每个人都是如此——是否存在更好的方式。
I wonder whether there's better ways, given that we're already quite critical of ourselves, everybody is.
作为一个成年人,你是如何考虑应对外界批评的?
How do you come to think about handling external critic you're an adult now.
你是个大孩子了。
You're a big boy.
也许这发生在你的职业生涯中。
Maybe this is in your professional life.
也许是对你出席晚餐时的表现的个人评价。
Maybe it's a personal comment on the way that you showed up at dinner.
但根据我的经验,心理真正健康且能坦然接受关于在意之事批评的人,实在寥寥无几。嗯。
Maybe it's and yet, at least in my experience, there are very few people who are psychologically healthy and still able to cope with criticism about something they care about Mhmm.
以一种不会真正造成伤害的方式。
In a way that doesn't really hurt.
那么你如何看待应对批评这件事?
So how do you think about dealing with criticism?
听着。
Look.
我认为最具挑战性的是那些言之有据的批评,当你确实犯了错误的时候。
I think one of the most calling things is criticism when it's warranted, when you have actually made a mistake.
要知道,作为人类最糟糕的事情之一就是你会不断伤害他人。
And, you know, one of the most awful things about being human is that you're constantly hurting others.
我们总是以或大或小的方式伤害他人,常常因为愚蠢、疲惫、狭隘等等。
You know, we are constantly hurting others in small ways and large, often through stupidity, exhaustion, narrow mindedness, etcetera.
而如果我们是有道德的人——大多数人都是——这种伤害就会反过来刺痛我们自己。
And then if we're moral people, and most of us are, it then hurts.
伤害了别人这件事本身就会让我们痛苦。
It hurts that we have hurt someone.
我们该如何从中走出来?
How do we move on from that?
怎样才能避免陷入情绪深渊?
How do we not, you know, sink into a hole?
我们该如何继续面对明天?
How can we live to see another day?
为了自己和依赖我们的人,我们必须学会原谅自己。
We need to forgive ourselves for the sake of ourselves and and those who depend on us.
广义上说,这就是友谊存在的意义。
And this is where, broadly speaking, friendship comes in.
明白吗?
You know?
我们需要可信赖的倾诉对象,而此刻我们正身处宗教场所。
We need trusted others, in whom we can confide, and we're sitting in this religious space.
忏悔有着悠久的历史传统。
Confession has a long history.
我们需要能够向充满爱意的观众坦白,他们能说:我知道你做了错事,但你的心是善良的。
We need to be able to confess to a loving audience that can that can say, I know that you have done bad, but your heart is good.
你知道吗?
You know?
而这正是心灵中一种复杂的运作方式。
And and that's a complex maneuver of the mind.
同时也是独处时难以做到的事情。
And also something difficult to do in solitude or solo.
我认为我们可以独自完成。
I think we can it solo.
我们无法独自完成。
We can't do it solo.
我想这正是独处极具挑战性的原因之一——因为我们无法给予自己继续前行所需的自我慈悲。
I I think this is, you know, one of the reasons why solitude is very challenging because we simply cannot bring to ourselves the the self compassion, that that we need to to keep going.
要知道,我们本质上是社会性生物。
And, you know, we we are social creatures.
如果童年时期发展良好,总会有人用充满爱意的目光注视过我们。
If we began well in childhood, someone will have looked at us through the eyes of love.
用爱的目光看待一个人,就是明白尽管他们可能做了错事,但本意是好的。
And to look at someone through the eyes of love is to see that though they may have done ill, they mean well.
这听起来简单,但你知道,整个人生的真谛都蕴含其中。
And it it sounds simple, but it's you know, all of all of life is in there.
当然,还要能为他人完成这种心灵运作。
And, course, then to be able to pull off that maneuver for other people.
我是说,各大宗教都围绕这一点并非巧合。
I mean, it's no coincidence that the great religions all circle this.
它们都围绕着忏悔、宽恕和慈善这些事。
They all circle this business of confession, forgiveness, charity to others.
不过我指的不是金钱上的慈善,而是一种精神上的慈善。
I don't mean financial charity, though, you know, as a role, but it's really charity of spirit.
嗯。
Mhmm.
显然这是我们极度需要却又极不擅长的东西,但若没有它,社会很快就会陷入停滞。
It's obvious it's something we desperately need, a very bad at, and yet, without it, society soon gums up.
我们无法继续前行。
We can't go on.
而我们
And we
无法自我提供,这就是为什么它如此重要。
can't provide it to ourselves, which is why it's so important.
你需要被告知对他人行善很重要,因为这是一种奇特的共同善行。
You need to be told that it's important for you to do it to other people because there's this odd sort of, co philanthropy that's occurring.
我将往善行池中投入,你也会投入,而每个人都能从中支取。
I am going to pay into the pot, and you are going to pay into the pot, and everybody is going to withdraw from the pot.
这有点像,呃,市政税的概念吧。
It's this sort of, the the council tax, I suppose Yeah.
人类善意的
Of, of human goodness.
是的。
Yeah.
真美啊。
That's beautiful.
而且,你知道,我们很多人都很孤独。
And, you know, many of us are lonely.
我的意思是,生活中一个巨大的秘密就是我们身边这样的人太少了。
I mean, this is one of the great secrets of of life that we don't have enough of these people.
我们被人群包围,但其中有多少人能在午夜危机时刻真正给予我们——广义上说——那种安抚、倾诉的耳朵,以及我们值得被宽恕的感觉?
We're surrounded by people, but how many of how many of those are really the people who, the middle of the night at crisis moment, is gonna be able to deliver that kind of broadly, we could call it reassurance, a confessional ear, and a sense of that we are worthy of forgiveness.
你觉得这是
Do you think this
一个尤其男性面临的挑战吗?拥有一个能共情的倾听者,被脆弱的男性自尊束缚的困扰等等。男性友谊和男性支持似乎是个难题,难以把握分寸。
is a challenge that particularly men face, this having someone that is a sympathetic ear, the the troubles of being tied up in your fragile male ego, etcetera, male friendships and, male support seems to be a tough thing, tough needle to thread.
确实是个难以把握的分寸。
It's a really tough needle to thread.
我认为,身为男性伴随着各种挑战,其中之一就是 masculinity 被塑造成一种成就。
I think that, being a man comes with all sorts of challenges, but one of them is that masculinity is presented as a kind of achievement.
你知道男孩们在校园里如何互相嘲弄吗?他们会说'你是个女孩'。
You know how boys taunt each other in school playground, and they'll go, you're a girl.
仿佛存在某种滑坡效应。
As though there's a kind of slippery slope.
滑坡的顶端是男子气概,而底部则是女孩特质。
The top of the slope is manhood, and then the bottom is girlhood.
若不谨慎,你就会再次变回女孩模样。
And if you're not careful, you'll become a girl again as it were.
有种感觉是当你还是婴儿时——而‘婴儿’这个词本身就是另一种嘲弄。
There's a sort of sense of when you were a baby, and that's the other taunt, baby.
当你还是婴儿时,你属于女性阵营,后来通过努力才成为男人。
When you were a baby, you were in the feminine camp, and then through effort, you became a man.
但这种成就是脆弱的。
But that achievement is precarious.
所以男性始终能感受到身份认同的脆弱性,这是非常不稳定的状态。
So men are always feeling the precarity of their identity, and that's a very unstable business.
看。
Look.
我认为最优秀的男人是那些被生活击垮过,又挣扎着走出来的人。
I think the best men are those who've been broken, by life and have pulled through, have come out the other end.
为什么?
Why?
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因为他们被现实逼迫着抛弃了关于力量与权力的幻觉。
Because they've been forced by circumstances to drop the illusion of their strength and power.
他们明白自己无法维持那种假象。
They they've known that they couldn't keep that going.
他们跌至谷底,不得不伸手求助说:我撑不下去了。
They've hit rock bottom, and they've had to reach out and say, I can't cope.
我...我处于婴儿般的无助状态。
I I am in infantile position.
你知道吗?
You know?
帮帮我。
Help me.
我是说,当男人经历这些后会变得光辉,因为那才是真正的人性与同情心等等的体现。
That I mean, men become rather glorious when that's happened to them, because that's when there's true humanity, sympathy, etcetera.
但有些男人,他们永远达不到那种境界。
But some men, they never get there.
明白吗?
You know?
是姿态,姿态,姿态的问题。
It's it's posture, posture, posture.
你知道的,从头到尾都是防御姿态。
It's, you know, defensive posture all the way.
所以我一眼就能认出他们。
So and I I can spot them a mile away.
那些被击垮过的男人
The men who've been broken
他们看起来是什么样子的?
How do what what do they look like?
不是外表能看出来的,你只是能感觉到一种谦逊。
It's not you you just sense that there's, a modesty.
内心深处有一种谦逊,你能感觉到——我觉得人们会散发出这种气息,我经常注意到——你能判断出可以告诉他们多少,以及他们能承受多少。
Deep down, there's a modesty, and you just feel I think people give off, I often notice it, a sense of how much you could tell them and how much they'd be able to bear.
往往就体现在那些小事上。
Often it's picked up in little things.
你懂吗?
You know?
人们会问,你周末过得怎么样?
People say, how was your weekend?
过得愉快吗?
Is it great?
还不错吧?
Was it good?
你会说,哦,哇。
You go, oh, wow.
那个人真的很需要我周末过得顺利,因为他们自己没什么空间。
That person really needs my weekend to have gone well because they don't have much space.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我周末过得很糟。
My weekend to have gone badly.
嗯。
Mhmm.
有人问,你周末过得如何?
Someone goes, how was your weekend?
这里面是有余地的。
There's space in that.
那里面还有空间。
There's space in that.
你能感受到那个空间。
You feel the space.
他们就像在说,哦,我可能刚在浴室地板上哭过。
They're like, oh, I might have been crying in the bathroom floor.
那种事是有可能发生的。
That that could happen.
周六我可能还想结束生命,但到了周日,事情就有所好转。
I might have wanted to take my life on Saturday, but Sunday, things cheered up.
你知道吗?
You know?
人性中那些极端的部分也需要有容身之处,而这些人正是你需要留意的。
There's room for the extremity of what it is to be human, and those are the people you wanna watch out for.
明白吗?
You know?
我几周前读过一篇文章,谈到很多男性表示,社会需要给男性更多空间来表达情感。
I've read an article, a couple of weeks ago, talking about how lots of men say, there needs to be more room for men to open up about their emotions.
在现实世界中我们应当做到这点。
We should have that in the real world.
但当真正面临个人处境时,很多时候男性仍然难以接受其他男性展现的软弱和脆弱。
And when the rubber meets the road, personally for them, a lot of the time, guys still struggle to receive weakness and vulnerability from other men.
所以他们其实是在说:我希望世界能接纳我的脆弱,但自己却不太愿意接纳别人的脆弱。
So they're saying, I want the world to be able to accept my vulnerability whilst not really being that comfortable with accepting it from other people myself.
而且,我认为并没有太多不对称性,女性在某些方面处境艰难,男性则在其他方面。
And, I don't think that there's many asymmetries, and women have got it bad in some ways, and men have got it bad in others.
但我认为这是一种男性更常面对的特殊不对称性,女性擅长提供情感支持,尤其是对同性。
But I think this is a particular asymmetry that men deal with more, that I think women are good at doing the nurturing thing, especially to other women.
我认为男性普遍不擅长提供情感支持,尤其是对同性。
I think that men are bad at doing the nurturing thing generally, especially to other men.
而且男性向女性敞开心扉已经面临足够多的挑战了。
And there are already enough challenges of men opening up to women.
哦,别人会怎么看我?
Oh, how am I going to be seen?
我脆弱的男子气概会因此破碎。
My fragile masculinity will be shattered.
也许她会告诉朋友,或者如果是我的伴侣——
Maybe she'll tell her friends, or maybe it's my partner.
她可能就不再对我有吸引力了。
She won't be attracted to me anymore.
是的,我之前从未意识到这个角度:男性渴望能够展现脆弱,但当他们看到其他男性的脆弱时,又会感到极度不适。
And, yeah, I I just think that was I'd never seen it put that way previously that guys want to be able to be vulnerable, and yet when they see other male vulnerability, it makes them very, very uncomfortable.
他们会在网上'引用推文'加以嘲讽,或者不会以需要的方式伸出援手。
They'll, quote, tweet it online, mocking it, or they won't reach out in the way that's needed.
提出的几个原因包括:这可能也凸显了你自身的弱点。
And a couple of the reasons that were put forward are, well, maybe it highlights why you might be weak too.
当有人展现脆弱时,就会鲜明地对比出——
This is somebody being being vulnerable, and that throws into sharp contrast the fact that, hey.
猜怎么着?
Guess what?
你也有弱点。
You've got vulnerabilities as well.
嗯。
Mhmm.
另一个角度,从进化心理学解释来说,我们有自己的联盟。
Another part of this, a little bit of an evolutionary psychology explanation that, we have our coalitions.
我们出去打猎时,一个不够强壮坚毅的人可能不是个好队友。
We would go out hunting, and a guy that's not that strong and stoic might not be a great coalitional partner.
要是打到猎物后他懒得转身回来怎么办?
What if we get to the end of the hunt and he can't be bothered to turn around and go back?
还有很多很多其他原因。
So many, many other reasons.
但我觉得这是个视角,特别是对那些想要融入并超越的男性——用威尔伯的话说就是'包含'——你们不仅要能谈论情绪,更要实际付出。
But, yeah, I think that's an angle that guys, especially guys who want to be integrated to transcend and include in Wilberian language, you know, you should take a good look in the mirror in not just being able to talk about your emotions, but in paying into the pot.
对吧?
Right?
不只是逃避责任,还要主动付出。
Not just withdrawing from the taxes, but also, hey.
我会在这里。
I'm gonna be here.
我会在这里,甚至对陌生人——比如网上某个素不相识的人,而不是说'这人跟我无关,这人正在受苦'
And I'm going to be here even to people maybe that I don't know, this random guy on the Internet as opposed to saying, This person's with going, This person was really hurting.
嗯。
And Mhmm.
操。
Fuck.
如果我受伤了,我大概会希望有人陪在身边。
If I was hurting, I I'd probably want someone to be there for me.
所以也许我该试着为他们做同样的事,尽管并不认识他们。
So maybe I should try and do the same for them despite not knowing them.
我在想欺凌这件事。
I'm thinking of bullying.
你知道,这是个奇怪的词,也是个令人尴尬的词,但它确实存在。
You know, it's it's a strange word, and it's an embarrassing word, but it exists.
你知道,那种欺凌弱者的冲动。
You know, the the impulse to bully the weak.
那是什么?
What is it?
我是说,每个上过学的人——也就是所有人——都清楚这种事。
I mean, anyone who's been through school, which is everybody, knows about it.
对吧?
Right?
典型欺凌目标就是学校里那些看起来生活比你更优渥、更受宠的人。
Which is you see somebody who's you know, typical target for bullying is somebody in a school whose whose life seems softer, more indulged than yours.
他们似乎仍停留在某种特权阶层。
They still seem stuck at a, in a way, at a privilege level.
他们的妈妈会烤些饼干,或是把泰迪熊塞进书包,诸如此类的事情。
Their mother bakes some biscuits or packs their teddy bear in their school bag or whatever it is.
而你心想,等一下。
And you think, hang on a minute.
我必须坚强。
I've had to be tough.
我必须长大。
I've had to grow up.
我从未被娇惯过。
I've had to I've not been indulged.
我要惩罚的不仅是别人的软弱,还有我看到的那些情感特权。
And I'm going to I'm going to punish in another person, not just the weakness, but the privilege, the emotional privilege that I see.
他们可以心安理得地表现得软弱和优柔寡断。
They they get to they get to walk around thinking that it's okay to be a bit weak and a bit soft.
但这对我不行。
Well, that's not okay for me.
所以我憎恨这种特权,我要让他们的日子不好过。
So I'm I resent this privilege, and I'm gonna make sure that their life gets a bit miserable.
这就是欺凌的起源。
And that's how you end up bullying.
要知道,父母也会欺凌自己的孩子。
And, you know, parents bully their children.
虽然这是个大禁忌,但事实如此。
I mean, this is a great taboo, but they do.
对父母而言,看到子女过着比自己当年更轻松的生活确实是个挑战,内心难免会涌起'这不公平'的冲动。
It's a real challenge for a parent to see somebody having a life that's softer than the one they had, And there's a real impulse to say, hang on.
你知道吗,我其实嫉妒你享有的特权——不是物质或情感上的优势,而是那种被纵容的情感特权。
You know, I I resent you for your your privilege, not not emotion not financial, emotion emotional privilege.
凭什么你能享受我当年得不到的宠爱?
Why do you get to be indulged in a way I wasn't?
这种不对等的关系确实令人难以承受。
It's very hard to bear that asymmetry.
人们该如何克服这种心理?
How do people overcome that?
假设你身为父母,成长在一个情感包容度不足的家庭环境中。
Let's say that you are a parent, and you did grow up in a household that was perhaps not as emotionally forgiving as it should have been.
你从未感受过足够的支持。
You didn't feel quite as supported.
我能想象这种复杂情绪——而这恰恰是我最感兴趣的研究领域。
And I imagine this this is a really complex emotion to feel, which are my favorite ones.
我就是在情感压抑的家庭环境中长大的。
I grew up in a household that didn't have room for my emotions.
我做了大量自我疗愈才理解这点,努力摆脱阴影只为给孩子更好的人生。
I did a lot of self work in order to be able to understand that and then try and wipe that slime off me so that I can give a better life to my kids.
后来我的孩子们出生了。
My kids come along.
他们开始过上这种更幸福的生活。
They start to have this better life.
不知怎的,当我看到自己设计并试图实现的美好生活时,怨恨却涌上心头。现在我为自己的怨恨感到羞耻,又因这份羞耻而痛苦,更因对怨恨的羞耻与对痛苦的焦虑而煎熬。
And somehow in seeing the better life that I designed and tried to overcome in order to be able to make happen, resentment has now come in, and now I feel shame at my resentment, and I feel bitterness at my shame about my resentment and anxiety about my bitterness about my shame about my resentment.
正是你以积极的方式引发了这种情绪的无限循环。
It's this infinite regress of emotions that you made happen in a positive way.
恭喜,太棒了。
Congratulations, Hooray.
你克服了这个难关。
You overcame this.
你就像这串古怪的串联灯带中的断路器,
You were a circuit breaker in this sort of weird, you know, serial of, of string lights,
而你却为此感到内疚。
and you feel bad about it.
我是说,我在笑对吧?因为这就是人类处境的悲剧性——你拼命想把事情做对,可当你努力纠正这个时,另一个问题又出现了。
I mean, I'm laughing, right, because this is where we're hitting kind of the tragedy of being human, which is you try so hard to get it right, and you're trying to get this right, and something else goes wrong.
而且,你知道的,我们确实需要温暖而丰沛的笑声。
And, I mean, you know, we do need a warm, rich laughter.
这不仅仅是锦上添花。
This is not merely the icing on the cake.
这是伟大的解决方案之一。
It is one of the great solutions.
我是说,我们此刻正艰难应对着养育孩子过程中的种种矛盾。
I mean, we're we're juggling here with the incompatibilities of, you know, raising children.
这简直让人发狂。
It's maddening.
如果你避开一个问题,就会引发另一个问题。
If you avoid one problem, you set off another one.
我想是的。
I think that, yes.
所以你看。
So look.
我觉得我们对自己做了这么多努力,却依然在原地踏步。
I think we do so much work on ourselves and still we're at square one.
有句古老的犹太谚语说:凡人一思考,上帝就发笑。
There's an old Jewish saying, man thinks God laughs.
换句话说,我们总以为自己能掌控某些事情。
In other words, you know, we're thinking that we can master something.
我们能掌控某个问题。
We can master a problem.
这太难了。
It's so difficult.
但我想谈谈施虐倾向,因为我们正在讨论霸凌行为。
But I wanna talk about I wanna think about sadism because we're about bullying.
施虐倾向这个词真的很奇怪。
It's a really weird word, sadism.
那么这到底是什么?
So what what is that?
你可能会觉得这是性癖好,或者是某些非常古怪的人才会有的行为。
That's you think maybe it's a sex kink or it's something that really weird people.
我想说的是,我们每个人都带有一种施虐冲动。
All of us carry a sadistic impulse, I wanna say.
一种冲动。
An impulse.
换句话说,这是一种将自身痛苦转化为惩罚他人或使他人受苦的欲望的冲动。
In other words, an impulse to turn our own suffering into, a desire to punish or give suffering to another person.
嗯。
Mhmm.
它总是源于我们自身的痛苦,而我们想将其传递出去。
It always comes from pain in ourselves, and we wanna pass it on.
而且你会发现日常生活中处处存在低层次、细微到难以察觉的施虐行为。
And and you see low level low level, minuscule, very hard to observe sadism in in daily life, in all sorts of areas.
在亲密关系中,人们会对伴侣施虐。
You see in relationships, You know, people are sadistic to their partners.
我的意思是,如果有天使存在,他们看到人性时一定会哭泣。
I mean, what you know, again, we you know, if there were angels, they would be weeping as they looked at human nature.
我们对自己和彼此都做了些什么?
And what are we doing to ourselves and to each other?
但痛苦也有其经济规律。
But there's an economy of suffering.
所有的刻薄都是传承而来的。
All meanness is inherited.
每一代人的施虐冲动都继承自前人。
All impulse to be mean is coming down the generations from somebody else.
我们不断玩弄着自己的痛苦,像传递包裹一样。
And we we keep playing past the parcel with our suffering.
我们走着,哦,看啊。
We go, oh, look.
我有些痛苦。
I've got some suffering.
哦,你想要一些吗?
Oh, do you want some?
因为这只会让我感觉好受些。
Because I'm just it's gonna make me feel better.
这就是我们最终的下场。
And that's how we end up.
你知道吗?
You know?
那家伙偷走了我的脚,所以我要挖掉他们的眼睛。
That guy that guy stole my my foot, so I'm gonna take their eye.
哦,那个人砍掉了我的左手手指。
Oh, that person hacked off my my left finger.
那我就割掉他们的耳朵,然后,你知道的,我还要掀掉他们半边头盖骨。
Well, I'll chop off their ear, and then, you know, I'll take a side of their skull.
明白吗?
You know?
就这样无休止地循环下去。
And on and on and on it goes.
我记得你说过,良好教育的一个标志是孩子没有成名的愿望。
I remember you saying a marker of good parenting is that your children don't have any wish to be famous.
是的。
Yes.
你知道,这个规则可能有些例外,但
You know, there might be a few exceptions to that rule, but
我
I
我认为,过度渴望在陌生人眼中闪耀,被不认识的人知晓,是一种病态的表现。
think the an outsized desire to shine in the eyes of strangers, to be known by people you don't know is a sign of pathology, I believe.
而我们正坐在这里,你和我。
And we're sitting here, you and I.
在众多摄像机前。
In front of lots of cameras.
在许许多多陌生人面前。
In front of lots of lots of strangers.
所以我们肯定哪里出了问题。
So something's gone wrong for us.
我是说这很基本。
I mean and it's so basic.
我对你的童年了解不够。
I don't know enough about your childhood.
我对自己的童年略知一二。
I know a bit about mine.
你会感到自己无足轻重。
You will have felt invisible.
我是说,如果你内心没有那种深刻的被忽视和被无视的感觉,为什么要表现得比其他人更引人注目呢?
I mean, why become a little bit more visible than everybody else if you don't carry within you a deep sense of having been invisible and unheard?
这难道不是人类源代码中普遍存在的天然倾向吗?
Is there not a natural pull for that generally that's kind of written into the source code of humans?
哦,我想确实如此,而且这是所有人的共性。
Oh, I suppose, actually, yes, there is, and it's everybody else.
而你在其中成为异类的事实,恰恰说明你与众不同。
And the fact that you are an outlier within that suggests that you are different.
没错。
Right.
好的。
Okay.
我已经自问自答了。
I've answered my own question.
谢谢。
Thank you.
是啊。
Yeah.
所以我认为这里存在某种补偿机制,而且我觉得能过上所谓的平凡生活其实是项了不起的成就。
So I think there's a compensatory, business going on, and I think the ability to have a so called ordinary life is a massive achievement.
可以说——如果你愿意这么表述的话——这是种非凡的成就。
It's if you can put it this way, an exceptional achievement.
这就像喜剧演员一样。
It's it's like it's like comedians.
你知道吗?
You know?
那些极度渴望逗人笑的人,几乎都是童年时面对过完全不有趣的事情,不得不寻找出路的孩子。
People who have an outsized need to make others laugh are almost always children who were facing something not funny at all that they needed to find a way through.
他们学会讲笑话,是因为周围有相当悲伤的事情需要应对。
They they learned to make jokes cause there was something pretty sad around, that they learned to manage.
在处理这些人或类似听众时,反应始终应该是:我成长的方式如何成为解决当时面临问题的方法?
And in all of these you know, when when dealing with those people or those sort of people are listening now, you know, the response should always be what how did the way in which I grew up figure as a solution to a problem that I was facing?
那么,在现在的年纪,我能否对自己宽容些,尝试其他方式?
And therefore, could I now, at whatever age you're at, cut myself some slack and try something else?
我需要用笑声来换取被容忍。
I needed to laugh in order to be tolerated.
严肃意味着什么?
What would it mean to be serious?
我需要成名才能生存。
I needed to be famous in order to survive.
默默无闻意味着什么?
What would it mean to think about obscurity?
或者说,我需要痛苦地保持谦逊,始终表现不佳以避免引发嫉妒。
Or indeed, I needed to be painfully modest and always underperform in order in order not to spark jealousy.
如果我尝试不同的方式会怎样?
What happens if I tried something different?
要知道,这些都是人生中重要的转折点和关键时刻。
You know, these are these are the major sort of breakpoints, turning points in a life.
当你意识到童年时期赖以生存的行为方式,如今却阻碍了成年后的发展可能,而那些曾经需要这些行为的情境已不复存在。
When you think the things I needed to do to get me through childhood are now hampering my possibilities in adulthood, those the situations that required that behavior are no longer in existence.
如果我尝试不同的做法会怎样?
What happens if I tried something different?
但要做到这一点,你必须看清那个你...你...(未完成句)
But in order to do that, you have to see the pattern that you would that you
被你的童年所设定的模式。
were set by your childhood.
喜剧演员马克·马龙说过:'我为保护内心小孩而创造的怪物,如今已难以驾驭。'
Mark Marron, comedian, says, the monster I created to protect the child inside of me is difficult to manage.
真美。
Beautiful.
太喜欢了。
Love it.
本节目由Momentous赞助播出。
This episode is brought to you by Momentous.
对于保健品而言,信任确实至关重要。
Trust really is everything when it comes to supplements.
许多品牌可能自称品质一流,但极少能真正证明这一点——这就是我选择与Momentous合作的原因。
A lot of brands may say that they're top quality, but very few can actually prove it, which is why I'm partnered with Momentous.
他们生产地球上最高品质的保健品,而我尤其钟爱他们的乳清分离蛋白粉。
They make the highest quality supplements on the planet, and I've fallen in love with their whey isolate protein powder.
这是草饲的。
It's grass fed.
这是一种超级便捷的方式,能为你的饮食增加蛋白质,促进肌肉增长和恢复,诸如此类的好处。
It is a super convenient way to get more protein into your diet, lean muscle mass, muscle growth, recovery, all that stuff.
但最重要的是,它的味道简直棒极了。
But most of all, it just tastes phenomenal.
大多数纯净蛋白质口感不佳,但这个比任何其他产品都要好。
Most clean proteins do not taste good, and this is better than anything else.
它还获得了NSF和Informed Sports认证,这意味着即使是奥运选手也可以使用,且保证不含违禁物质。
It's also NSF and Informed Sports certified, meaning that even Olympic athletes can use it and is guaranteed to be free of banned substances.
最棒的是,有30天退款保证,所以你可以完全无风险地购买。
Best of all, there's a thirty day money back guarantee, so you can buy it completely risk free.
每天都要使用它。
Use it every single day.
这里面有多少份量?
How many servings is in this?
这里面有25份吗?
25 servings in this?
连续一个月每天使用它。
Use it every single day for a month.
如果你不喜欢,他们会直接退款给你。
If you don't like it, they'll just give you your money back.
他们就是如此确信你会爱上它。
That's how confident they are that you'll love it.
此外,他们还提供国际配送服务。
Plus, they ship internationally.
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And right now, you can get 35% off your first subscription and that thirty day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below by heading to livemomentous.com/modernwisdom using the code Modern Wisdom at checkout.
享受35%的折扣。
That's 35% off.
访问livemomentous.com/modernwisdom,结账时使用优惠码modernwisdom。
Livemomentous.com/modernwisdomandmodernwisdom at checkout.
身份焦虑某种程度上与此相关,你知道,就是这种需要被看见的心理。
Status anxiety kind of related to that, you know, this this need to be seen.
看看我。
Look at me.
你好。
Hello.
我在这里。
I'm here.
我之前提到过,因为我们正在一座教堂(或者说旧教堂)里录音,你可能会碰巧决定今天穿上你的飘逸长袍。
I I mentioned before because we are recording in a church or an old church at the moment that just by chance, you might have decided to wear your flowing robes today.
可惜没有。
Unfortunately not.
但那种需求,那种渴望——看看我。
But that need that desire, look at me.
看看我有多么特别。
Look at how special I am.
看看我有多出色。
Look at how impressive I am.
我认为,无论你多么开明,身份焦虑总是存在的。
Status anxiety is going to be there, I think, no matter how enlightened you are.
我希望感受到被需要、被尊重,并且被我钦佩的人所仰慕。
I I want to feel like I'm needed by the people and respected and admired by people I admire.
这可是个相当高的要求。
That's a pretty big one.
有没有什么好方法,或者说健康的方式来应对身份和身份焦虑呢?
Is there a good way to deal with is there a healthy way to sort of deal with status and status anxiety?
你提到教堂很有意思。
It's funny you mentioned churches.
我是说,宗教真正有帮助的地方在于它们往往会告诉信徒:有人真正了解他们、关心他们并关注着他们。
I mean, the the really helpful thing about religions is that they tend to tell their believers that someone really knows them and really cares about them and is looking at them.
如果你想想追求财富、名望和尊重的冲动,这实际上是一种被宗教所吸收的渴望。
And if you think about the impulse to be rich and famous and esteemed, it's really a desire that gets soaked up by religions.
宗教告诉每个人,比如基督教里说'你头上的每根头发都被数过'。
Religions are saying everybody, you know, in in in Christianity, every hair on your head is numbered.
换句话说,确实有人在注视着你。
In other words, someone's really looking at you.
有人了解你,就像一位好父母了解自己的孩子那样。
Someone knows you in the way that a parent, a good parent knows a child.
你知道吗?
You know?
在充满爱与关怀的家庭中度过童年最美好的事,就是孩子会成为超级明星。
The great thing about early childhood in a good and loving family is that child is a superstar.
你看,他们一出现就唱歌,大家鼓掌喝彩,他们开心得很。
You know, they come in, they sing a song, they they everyone claps, they're happy.
清晨时分,就像小王子驾临一般。
You know, in the morning, it's like the little prince has arrived.
而小公主呢,你瞧,正踮着脚尖旋转起舞呢。
The princess is, you know, doing a pirouette, etcetera.
这并不会让孩子变得骄纵。
That doesn't make a child entitled.
骄纵源于匮乏。
Entitlement comes from deprivation.
能够接纳平凡生活的能力,源自早期情感上的富足。
The ability to absorb an ordinary life comes from early emotional privilege.
如果孩子在幼年时能成为宇宙的中心,他们就能在成年后承受次要地位而不受太大心理创伤。
If if if the child is able to be the center of the universe in the early years, they will be able to accept without too much psychological damage, a subsidiary position in adult life.
那种总想占据中心、时刻彰显重要的需求,其实是一种补偿心理。
That the need to be always at the center and always important is a compensation.
这并非健康的标志。
It's not a sign of health.
因此,美好的童年与赋予孩子这种特殊感的能力相关——这样他们才能完成更重要的成长课题:甘于平凡,接受普通,这其实是项艰巨挑战。
And therefore, a good childhood is connected up with the ability to give your child that charge of specialness so that then they can go on to do that much more important thing, which is to be ordinary, to accept ordinariness, which is a massive challenge.
毕竟我们终将归于平凡,而这并没什么不好。
And all of us are in the end, ultimately, ordinary, and that's okay.
不要感到羞耻。
And to not feel shame.
不要感到羞耻。
And not feel shame.
是的。
Yeah.
并接受你能力有限的事实。
And to accept that there are limits on your power.
你将不得不面对死亡。
You will need to die.
你将接受自己生命的有限性。
You will accept your finitude.
我写了
I wrote
一篇关于羞耻感的小短文,想读给你听,可以吗?
a a little essay about shame I wanted to read to you, if that's okay.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我一直在思考简单快乐带来的羞耻感。
So I've been thinking about the shame of simple pleasures.
这是一位朋友的引述。
This is a quote from a friend.
我还没有智慧到能深刻享受简单事物的程度。
I have not yet grown wise enough to deeply enjoy simple things.
我们都是自己快乐的糟糕会计。
We are all terrible accountants of our own joy.
大多数人只有在交易足够大时才接受存款。
Most of us only accept deposits when the transaction is sufficiently large.
结婚那天,格拉斯顿伯里音乐节主舞台演出那晚,公司以1亿美元出售那一刻——任何比这小的快乐,甚至都进不了账本。
The day we get married, the night we play the main stage at Glastonbury, the moment the business sells for a $100,000,000, anything less, and the entry doesn't even make the ledger.
我们把小确幸当作假币般对待。
We treat small pleasures like counterfeit currency.
哦,那件事让你开心了一整天。
Oh, that thing made your day.
那个微小瞬间让你高兴了一周。
That small moment made your week.
多么可悲、多么绝望、你的人生该有多局限,才会被如此不起眼的事情所取悦。
How feeble, how desperate, how limited your life must be to be thrilled by something so unimpressive.
你肯定没什么正经事可忙。
You must not have a lot going on.
我们对那些让别人兴奋的微小事件翻白眼,仿佛快乐必须与规模成正比。
We roll our eyes at the tiny events that get others get excited at as though joy must be proportionate to scale.
然而,生活正是由这样的小事构成的。
And yet, life is made up of little things exactly like this.
不是偶尔,而是始终如此。
Not once in a while, but always.
你的人生由那些小到甚至无法被他人日历记录的时刻所构建。
Your life is constructed out of moments so small they wouldn't even register as an event on anyone's calendar.
那么为什么渺小的事物就不能成就伟大呢?
So why can't something small be something great?
有时候我会过度敏感地感受事物,包括对这种过度敏感本身感到羞愧。
Well, sometimes I feel things more deeply than I should do, including the shame at feeling things more deeply than I should do.
还有,为微小事物感到超乎预期的快乐时也会羞愧,仿佛享受点滴之乐暴露了我生活的狭隘。
Also, the shame of being delighted by little things more than I think I should, as if taking pleasure in something tiny reveals the smallness of my life.
但或许这想法完全本末倒置了。
But perhaps that's exactly backward.
也许生命的真正丰盛,在于你能从最贫瘠的土壤中收获多少欢愉。
Maybe the true richness of a life is how much joy you can harvest from the smallest possible patch of soil.
而这就是回报所在。
And here's the payoff.
当你降低快乐的阈值,你不仅会获得更多快乐,还能即刻拥有它。
When you lower the threshold for joy, you don't just get more of it, you get it now.
究竟谁更令人叹服?是那个需要宏伟教堂般的虚张声势和惊天动地成就才能获得一丝快感的人?
Who is truly the more impressive person, the one who requires a huge cathedral of bullshit, fanfare, and galactic accomplishments in order to get the slightest ficker of pleasure?
就像性派对上非要让汽车电池夹住乳头才能兴奋的受虐狂,还是只需一杯好咖啡和一阵清风就能满足的人?
Like some masochist at a sex party demanding car batteries get clamped onto his nipples before he can even get started, or the person who can do it with a good coffee and a fresh breeze.
说得太棒了。
Love it.
克里斯,这让我意识到我们对生活重心的判断多么容易受人左右。
I mean, Chris, what it makes me think that we're incredibly easily led in our sense of what matters in life.
我们实在是糟糕的——缺乏独立性的——意义评判者。
We're really bad judges, independent judges of significance.
所以如果有人指着墙上那幅画说,你知道的,那幅画非常昂贵。
So if somebody says, you know, that artwork on the wall, that's really expensive.
那幅画非常有名。
That's really famous.
它曾经属于某位国王或女王。
That used to belong to a king or a queen.
我们会想,哦,那可太棒了。
We think, oh, that's marvelous.
是啊。
Yeah.
而如果我们不知道画家是谁,艺术家是谁,或者画的是什么,我们就会觉得,哦,那肯定不怎么样。
And if we don't know who the painter was, who the artist was, or what it is, we think, oh, that can't be any good.
这简直有点可笑不是吗?我们在自主判断事物价值时,表现得多么盲从和愚蠢。
So it's almost comedic, isn't it, how how supine and dumb we are in deciding for ourselves, what matters.
你知道的,这种现象在文化领域很常见。
So, you know, you you do get this in in culture.
如果一本书获奖了,所有人都会觉得这本书很棒。
If a book wins a prize, everybody decides that book's amazing.
但在获奖之前,大家都觉得它很无聊。
But before it won the prize, everybody thought it was boring.
而且你知道的,书本身并没有改变。
And and, you know, the book hasn't changed.
我经常思考这个问题,因为我是个飞行爱好者。
I often think about this in terms I'm a great fan of flying.
我热爱飞行。
I love flying.
而且
And
我完全没想到你会这样。
I wouldn't have I wouldn't have guessed that about you.
太喜欢了。
Love love it.
而且我热爱这项技术。
And I love the technology.
我喜欢那些,你知道的,各种各样的东西,那种美感,那种美学。
I love the, you know, all sorts things, the beauty, aesthetic.
总之,我总被当今世界飞行所获得的极低声望所震惊,相比而言,比如说艺术。
Anyway, I'm always struck by the way in which flying has nowadays very low prestige in the world compared, let's say, to art.
所以如果你对别人说,我要去画廊看些画作。
So if you say to somebody, I'm going to a gallery, and I'm gonna look at some pictures.
人们会觉得,哦,那是件很高尚的事。
And I'm gonna go, oh, that's very, you know, noble thing to do.
但如果你说我要去乘飞机,在飞行中我要打开窗户,欣赏云朵,为之欣喜,为之惊叹。
If you say I'm gonna I'm gonna take a flight, and on the flight, I'm gonna open the window, and I'm gonna look at the clouds, and I'm gonna delight in them, and I'm gonna marvel at them.
我就会想,天啊。
And I'm thinking, oh my goodness.
这这比达芬奇或普桑的任何画作都要美妙。
This is this is better than any painting by Leonardo or Poussard or whatever.
这简直太引人注目了。
This is just this is striking.
对吧?
Right?
人们会觉得你小题大做。
People would think, you're making a big deal of it.
关上那扇窗,我正在看电影呢。
Shut that window, but I'm trying to watch a film.
所以望向窗外并不是什么值得炫耀的事。
So it's not that prestigious to look out the window.
而这只是我们多么不善于自行发现意义的一个小小例证。
And and that's just a tiny example of how bad we are at at finding significance by ourselves.
我认为这才是真正的创造力。
I think this is true creativity.
真正的创造力在于,你感到自己的快乐无论源自何处都是正当的。
True creativity is when you have a sense that your pleasure could be legitimate wherever it lies.
所以如果你恰好喜欢鹅卵石,那就去吧。
So if you happen to like pebbles, go for it.
你知道,那将成为你的快乐源泉。
You know, that's that's gonna be your pleasure.
或者如果你喜欢阳光照射在百叶窗或混凝土上的样子,那就会成为你的心头好。
Or if you like the way that sunlight hits, you know, a window blind or or concrete, that's gonna be that's gonna be the thing for you.
我认为小孩子在这方面更自然。
And I think it's that small children have it more naturally.
这就是为什么小孩子总能给大人带来欢乐。
That's what makes that's what makes small children delightful to adults.
你懂的。
You know how it is.
如果你带小孩去公园,那场面简直太搞笑了。
If you take a small child to a park, it's hilarious.
你甚至都走不到秋千那儿,因为他们半路就会停下来。
You can't even get to the swings because they would have stopped.
小孩可能会在墙边停下,或者总是注意到一些奇怪的东西,比如石头缝里的口香糖,然后盯着看个不停。
The child would have stopped maybe by a wall or they they always noticed, you know, a piece of chewing gum in in in a rock, and you think, and they'll be looking at it, whatever.
你会说:快点走啦。
You go, come on.
我们去玩秋千吧。
Let's go to the swing.
但他们根本不想去秋千那儿,因为他们发现了混凝土台面上长出的一簇草之类的东西。
And they don't wanna go to the swing because they've discovered a tuft of grass growing out of a concrete ledge or whatever it is.
他们是独立的意义裁决者。
They are independent arbiters of significance.
到了15岁,他们就会开始想:Drake喜欢什么?或者X在暗示我什么?
By 15, they're like, well, what did Drake like or what, you know, what's what's x telling me to
把审美判断外包给别人。
outsource their sense of taste.
没错。
Exactly.
这真是太乏味了。
And that's so tedious.
我是说,祝福他们吧。
I mean, bless them.
每个人都会这么做。
Everybody does it.
但理想情况下,当你完全成熟时,你会再次变得有点古怪。
But, ideally, by the time you get to full maturity, you become a bit weirder once more.
而这正是某些成年人特别讨人喜欢的原因。
And that's what makes certain adults really delightful.
他们会说,别人怎么想都无所谓。
They go, doesn't matter what everybody thinks.
对我来说,我喜欢这个东西。
For me, I'm liking this thing.
我有时会从娱乐的角度来考虑它。
I sometimes think about it in terms of entertaining.
我不知道你平时有多少娱乐活动。
I don't know how much entertaining you do.
当人们说,我要举办一个晚宴。
When people say, I'm gonna I'm gonna give a dinner party.
我要邀请一些朋友来吃晚饭。
I'm gonna invite some friends for dinner.
他们就会陷入混乱,想着该怎么安排这场晚宴?
They get into such a mess thinking, how am I gonna organize this dinner?
哦,我必须先来份开胃菜,可能是份蜜瓜,或者,我也不知道,可能是虾之类的。
And, oh, I must have a starter, and and maybe it's a melon, and or maybe it's, I don't know, prawns or something.
然后然后,或者我必须来份主菜,可能是鸡肉之类的。
And then and then or I must have this thing called a main course, which might be chicken or something.
接着他们或我又来了份甜点,诸如此类。
And and then they or I got a dessert, etcetera.
他们只是,你知道的,他们满心焦虑,诸如此类。
And they're just, you know, they're overflowing with anxiety, etcetera.
如果你问他们,你到底喜欢什么?
And if you are said to them, what do you actually enjoy?
你知道的,如果是晚餐时间,他们会怎么做?他们可能会说,嗯,我喜欢打开一罐金枪鱼,放在桌上,拿些鹰嘴豆泥蘸着吃,把脚翘起来,诸如此类。
What what you know, if it's supper time, what do and they might go, well, I like opening, you know, can of tuna, putting it on the table, getting some hummus, dipping that, putting my feet up, etcetera.
然后你想,好吧。
And you thought, okay.
你为什么不直接和朋友们这样吃呢?
Why don't you just do that with your mates?
为什么不干脆放下伪装?
Why don't you just just drop the pretense?
要有勇气相信,打动我的东西也可能打动别人。
Have the courage to think what's touching me might touch another person.
这样你的晚餐派对会更有趣。
And your dinner party is gonna be a lot more fun.
这当然最终是伟大艺术家们所做的事。
This is ultimately, of course, what great artists do.
伟大的艺术家有种直觉,他们认为对自己有趣且有意义的事物,即便当下鲜少被提及,终将对他人产生共鸣。
Great artists have a sense that what's fun for them, what's meaningful for them will probably be meaningful for other people even though right now, there's quite a lot of silence about that area.
因此他们怀着一种信念——这种信念我们之前讨论自尊时提到过。
So they're kind of they're taking they've got a faith that we started talking about self esteem.
他们相信能打动自己的事物,同样可能打动他人。
They got a faith that the things that turn them on are likely to turn other people on as well.
这是种美妙的自信,正是这种自信造就了伟大艺术。
And that's a beautiful confidence, and that's what leads to great art.
伟大艺术本质上是勇于为自己定义愉悦的勇气。
Great art is really the courage to define the pleasure for yourself.
这是爱默生说过的一句美妙的话。
It's a lovely quote from Emerson.
他说:'在天才的头脑中,我们找到被自己忽视的思想'。
He says, in the minds of geniuses, we find our own neglected thoughts.
'在天才的头脑中,我们找到被自己忽视的思想'。
In the minds of geniuses, we find our own neglected thoughts.
换言之,所谓的天才,他们的思想并非与常人完全不同。
In other words, geniuses, so called geniuses, don't have thoughts that are completely different from those of other people.
他们所做的,是将我们共有的思想赋予应有的意义——其中某些思想。
What they do is they take the thoughts that we all have and they give them the significance they deserve, some of them, some of those thoughts.
正因如此,当你读到一本真正伟大的书时,常会感叹:'哇'。
And so that's why when you pick up a really great book, often you think, wow.
'我一直这么想,却从未知道该如何表达'。
I've always thought that, but I've never known how to say it.
实际上我们的意思是,我从未有勇气认真对待那个想法,因为我缺乏自尊。
And really what we mean is I've never had the courage to give that thought its due because I'm lacking self esteem.
这是一种愚蠢的自我信念与叛逆精神的奇妙融合。
There is a it's a a really sort of wonderful blend between a boneheaded self belief, which is kind of rebellious.
感觉有点尖锐,不太像那样。
It feels a bit spiky, sort of a not that.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而更多是一种温暖舒适的感觉——我喜欢我所爱的,也喜欢这样爱着的自己。
And a much more sort of warm, cozy sensation, which is I like what I like, and I like myself for liking it.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这说得通吗?
Does that make sense?
这是对外界混乱的抗拒,也是对内在秩序结构的维护。
There is this the the rejection of entropy outside and this sort of containment of structure inside.
我立刻开始思考什么样的背景能让第二种版本成为可能。
And immediately, I'm thinking about the background that would have made the second version possible.
我想象着一位会说'去做你喜欢做的事吧'的家长。
I'm imagining a parent who says, do that thing that you that you like doing.
这样很好。
That's fine.
要知道,你可以有点古怪,在我们这里这不算奇怪。
You know, you can be slightly weird, and we we don't think that's weird here.
你可以用一种不那么脆弱的方式追求自己的快乐。
You can just pursue your own pleasure in a non brittle way.
你明白吗?
You know?
正如你所说,这是对你个性的一种温和认可。
And as you say, it's a it's a gentle acknowledgment of your individuality.
我们所在的地方有相当精美的彩绘玻璃艺术品?
We are in a place that's got some pretty wonderful is stained glass art?
那算是艺术课吗?
Is that class as art?
我想是的。
I'd imagine.
让我们对艺术的概念放得宽松些。
Let's let's play it really loose with the concept of art.
艺术就是任何能让我们兴奋的东西。
Art is anything that, you know, excites us.
它看起来很美。
It seems beautiful.
你经常谈论艺术。
You often talk about art.
在很多
In a lot
你的书里,有各种绘画、雕塑等作品的图片。
of your books, you have images of of of different paintings, of different sculptures, stuff like that.
人们如何才能更好地欣赏艺术?
How can people become better at appreciating art?
画廊里的新手们渴望能更深入地理解艺术。
The white belts at looking at a gallery, and they want to have a better appreciation of it.
他们总觉得自己错过了什么关键之处。
They feel like there's something that they're missing.
他们无法理解。
They don't understand.
他们不了解画家的生平背景,也不清楚创作时的境遇。
They don't know the story of where this painter came from and where they were at at that point in life.
有个观点是:人们常误以为要成为合格的艺术爱好者就必须喜欢所有作品。
Well, one thought is people tend to think, in order to be a decent person who likes art, I've gotta like everything.
觉得必须走进博物馆对每件展品都表现出陶醉。
I gotta go into a museum, and I gotta just delight in everything.
用音乐来类比想想看。
Think about it in music.
人们在音乐方面的态度比视觉艺术要理智得多。
People are much saner when it comes to music than it when it comes to visual arts.
人们对视觉艺术总是过分纠结。
People are really hung up on the visual arts.
我常说:应该借鉴对待音乐的态度。
And I always say, take your cue for music.
就像在音乐领域,你清楚自己喜欢什么,根本不在乎有大量其他作品无法打动你。
You know when you like something musically, and you don't care that there's loads and loads of other stuff that doesn't touch you.
你并不介意。
You don't mind.
你喜欢你所喜欢的。
You like what you like.
你制作自己的歌单。
You make your own playlist.
那就制作属于你的歌单,收录那些触动你的艺术家。
So make your own playlist of the of the artists that touch you.
它可能只占世界艺术产出的3%,也可能与任何著名名字无关。
And it might be 3% of the art that's produced by the world, and it might be not any of the famous names.
那些著名人物大体上是通过各种离奇方式被选中的,你要找到属于自己的方式去发现令你愉悦的事物。
The famous names are on the whole chosen by all sorts of bizarre ways and find your own way to things that delight you.
你要明白,要有勇气。
Be you know, have the courage.
还有,逛博物馆时不可能一口吃成胖子。
Also, when walking through a museum, you can't eat it all at once.
我是说,这些博物馆太奇怪了。
I mean, these museums are bizarre.
它们就像是千年历史的档案库,而你却要在一个下午的时间里看完并喜欢上所有东西。
They're like they're like archives of everything that's happened over a thousand years, and you're supposed to kind of spend an afternoon and like it all.
我们根本无法消化这么多。
It's just we can't absorb it.
我们无法代谢这些信息。
We can't metabolize it.
所以我总是这么想,你知道的,去博物馆吧。
And so I always think, you know, go to a museum.
看。
Look.
如果你发现两件理想中想顺走放家里的东西,那咱们就行动吧。
If you find two things that you'd like to ideally nick and put in your house, let's let's get going.
要非常个人化。
Be very personal.
人们在博物馆礼品店里表现得特别正常。
People are really normal in the museum gift shop.
你知道,当他们走进博物馆礼品店时,就会突然正经起来。
You know, when they get to the museum gift shop, they're like, right.
我该买哪些明信片呢?
What postcards shall I buy?
然后他们就觉得这才是热爱艺术的方式。
Then they're thinking that's the way to love art.
就像在纠结该给奶奶寄哪张贺卡。
It's like, what card should I send my granny?
这才是艺术鉴赏的开端。
That's the beginning of art appreciation.
因为这就像在问,我喜欢什么?
Because it's like, what do I like?
他们可能会喜欢什么?
What might they like?
放手去做吧。
Go for it.
嗯。
Mhmm.
其余的都是无稽之谈。
All the rest is nonsense.
你不必太过纠结。
You don't need to get caught up too much.
我想知道音乐之间的区别是什么。
I wonder what the difference is between music.
我完全同意。
I I completely agree.
对于音乐中我喜欢的东西,我的态度非常明确。
I'm very unequivocating about the stuff that I like in music.
然而,当我设想自己坐在一幅画前时,会偷偷左右张望,试图理解——哦,这看起来非常忧郁。
And yet, when I go and if I imagine myself sitting in front of a painting, sort of furtively be looking to either side to work out, oh, this seemed very melanchol.
这一定是忧郁的。
This must be a melanchol.
我必须保持庄重。
I must be somber.
我会保持庄重的。
I'll be somber.
这就是该有的方式。
This'll be that's the way to do it.
我在想,这种媒介究竟有什么特质,让它显得更难一些,更难以定义个人的品味。
And, I wonder what it is about the medium that makes it a little bit more difficult, a little bit more, hard to define your own taste.
有一个古希腊神话讲述了绘画的起源。
There's a there's an ancient Greek myth about the origins of painting.
据说有个牧羊少年爱上了一个牧羊少女,而少女即将远行。
There was apparently a shepherd boy who was in love with a shepherd girl, and the shepherd girl was gonna go away.
在分别前的最后一夜,他们在山洞里,洞壁上投映着少女的剪影。
And, that night on the last night together, they were in a cave and there was a shadow on the cave wall of the shepherd girl.
少年拿起一块粉笔,沿着少女身影的轮廓描摹下来。
And the shepherd boy took up a piece of chalk and traced the outline of the shepherd girl's form.
这就是艺术的起源——后来有许多画作描绘这个场景。
And that's supposed to be there are lots of paintings of this, the origin of of art.
换句话说,当珍贵之物即将消逝时,创作艺术的冲动便油然而生。
In other words, the impulse to make art comes when something precious is gonna vanish.
艺术可以被视为保存珍贵之物的容器。
An art could be thought of as a bucket in which you preserve something valuable.
我们需要艺术,因为我们无法仅凭双手留住一切。
And we need art because we can't hold it all in our own fingers.
我们无法全然吸纳。
We can't absorb it all.
于是我们将它托付给能够稳固保存的事物。
And so we outsource it to something that can stabilize it and hold it for us.
这就是按下快门的冲动。
That's the impulse to take a picture.
你知道吗,当你去一个美丽的地方时,你会觉得‘我喜欢这里’。
You know, when you go to a beautiful place and you go, I like it.
总有一种失去的恐惧,你会想‘我可能会失去它,所以我必须拍张照片’。
There's always a fear of loss, and you think I'm gonna lose it, so I must take a picture of it.
艺术中也是如此。
Same thing goes on in art.
因此,你热爱的艺术几乎总是蕴含着一点你真正的家园,那些可能悄然消逝的真实幸福。
And so the art that you love is almost always the the art that contains within it a bit of your true home, your true happiness that is in danger of slipping away.
这对每个人来说都是不同的。
And it's gonna be different for everybody.
我认为最有趣的问题之一是:为什么会被触动你的艺术所打动?
I think one of the most interesting questions is why are you touched by the art that touches you?
这往往是因为那件艺术捕捉到了人们未能牢牢把握的东西,他们需要将其保存下来。
And it tends to be because that art captures something that the person doesn't have enough of a secure hold on, and they need to preserve it.
比如,我喜欢宁静的艺术。
So for example, I love calm art.
你知道,我喜欢美丽的空旷空间、线条感、形式的庄重等等。
You know, I love beautiful empty spaces, linearity, dignity of form, etcetera.
我热爱这种艺术。
I love it.
我的生活是这样的吗?
Is my life like that?
不是。
No.
那不是我的住处。
That's not that's not where I live.
我生活在混乱中,但我热爱这种状态,因为那才是我真正的归宿。
I live in chaos, but I love that because that's my true home.
但我并不常在那里。
But I'm not there often enough.
所以它是个纪念品。
So it's a memento.
它在说:回到这个地方来吧。
It's saying, come back to this place.
那里才是你需要成为真实自我的所在。
That's where you need to be in order to be your true self.
好消息。
Good news.
AG1刚刚发布了他们的新一代配方。
AG one just released their next gen formula.
这是更先进的临床验证版本,正是我多年来每日饮用的产品。
It is a more advanced clinically backed version of the product that I've been drinking every day for years.
你依然可以保持一勺的仪式感,但现在配方更考究,口味更佳,并有四项临床试验作为支撑。
So you still get the same one scoop ritual, but now with an even more thoughtful formulation flavor and four clinical trials behind it.
自2010年以来,AG1不断进化,始终与最新研究同步改进。
AG1 has been evolving since 2010, continuously improving alongside the latest research.
而AG1新一代正是临床验证的成果,能帮助填补常见营养缺口并支持肠道健康,即使对饮食均衡的人群也有效。
And AG1 NextGen is the result clinically shown to help fill common nutrient gaps and support gut health even in people who already eat well.
一项研究中,它使肠道内的有益菌群增加了10倍。
In one study, it boosted healthy bacteria in the gut by 10 times.
如果你仍有疑虑,他们提供九十天无理由退款保证。
And if you're still unsure, they've got a ninety day money back guarantee.
所以你可以购买并试用三个月。
So you can buy it and try it for three months.
如果不满意,他们会全额退款。
If you don't like it, they'll give you money back.
现在通过点击下方描述中的链接或访问drinkag1.com/modernwisdom,你可以免费获得一年的维生素D3、K2以及五份AG1旅行装,外加九十天退款保证。
Right now, you can get a year's free supply of vitamin d three, k two, and five free a g one travel packs plus the ninety day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinkag1.com/modernwisdom.
网址是drinkag1.com/modernwisdom。
That's drinkag1.com/modernwisdom.
你刚才提到了混乱。
You mentioned chaos there.
你认为人类是否一直受困于让自己忙碌的需求,还是说这种‘拼命工作’文化如同YouTube文章让我们相信的那样,更多是现代特有的现象?
Do you think that humans have always been plagued by the need to keep themselves busy, or is this a as is hustle and grind culture as much of a modern phenomena as YouTube essays would have us believe?
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