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我从来不知道你为NASA工作过火星车项目。
I never knew that you worked on the Mars Rover for NASA.
这太他妈酷了。
That's so fucking cool.
真正神奇的是，我的名字马克·罗伯（Mark Rober）和火星车（Mars Rover）只差两个字母。
Well, what's really wild is my name, Mark Rober, is only two letters off for Mars Rover.
如果你把k改成s，把b改成v。
If you change the k to an s and the b to a v.
老实说
And honestly
这注定如此。
It was meant to be.
我在NASA工作了整整四年才意识到这一点。
It took me, like, four years working at NASA to realize that.
有一天我突然恍然大悟：天哪。
It's just one day I'm like, oh, dang.
你做了什么？
What did you do?
我是一名机械工程师，这是我的专业。
So I'm a mechanical engineer, by trade.
我获得了学士和硕士学位。
I got my bachelor's and master's in that.
我花了大约七年时间参与火星车项目。
And I worked on the rover that's on Mars for, like, seven years.
它的运作方式是，他们直接把你扔进深水区。
So the way it works is they just throw you into the deep end.
我当时负责火星车的一部分。
And, like, I'm I was responsible for a chunk of the rover.
所以我设计了它的外观。
And so, you know, I designed what it should look like.
你知道的，你还要测试它。
I you know, you test it.
你把它整合起来。
You integrate it.
你把它组装起来。
You put it together.
你有一群人和你一起工作。
You have a team of people working with you.
他们在NASA称他们为灰熊，他们会审视你的设计，并告诉你所有它糟糕的原因。
They have Graybears, they call them at NASA, who look at your design and tell you all the reasons it sucks.
于是你回去修改它。
So you go back and change it.
这听起来有点像白袍甘道夫。
This sounds like some, Gandalf the White.
就像你需要去山顶向那位大佬致敬一样。
Like you need to go and pay homage to the dude at the top of the mountain.
这本质上就是这么回事。
That's effectively what it is.
但他们很聪明。
But they're smart.
他们知道自己在做什么。
They know what they're doing.
他们以前就把东西送入过太空。
They've put stuff in space before.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以他们会把任务交给刚入行的年轻人，而我当时负责火星车顶部的一个货舱。
And so they give it to the young the young folks who are just coming up to and they literally you're I was in charge of a trunk on the top of the rover.
机械臂深入土壤，采集样本，然后放入火星车的腹部，而我设计了接收样本的硬件。
The Armgo digs in the dirt, takes that sample, puts into the belly of the rover, and, like, I designed the hardware to accept that.
它至今仍在火星上工作，希望如此。
And it's still working, fingers crossed, on Mars.
但那仍然在运行。
But that's still going.
是的。
Yeah.
当你仰望天空时，这真的很奇妙。
Which is wild when you look up at the sky.
你知道吗？
You know?
所有的恒星看起来都一样。
All the stars look the same.
火星有一点红色调。
Mars has a little bit of red tint to it.
对吧？
Right?
你知道你的孩子在哪里。
You know where your baby is.
是的。
Yeah.
而且这距离我们有九千万英里远。
And it's like, that's 90,000,000 miles away.
而我曾经接触过一个探测器，我碰过在那片天空中的小点上滚动的东西。
And I have I've touched an integrating I've touched something that's rolling around on on that dot in the sky.
真正酷的是，在地球上，东西会氧化和分解，所以它们会碎裂并消失。
And what's really cool is on Earth, things oxidize and break down, so they they crumble and go away.
对吧？
Right?
所以，假设由于人工智能或其他任何因素，一百万年后，我们的物种消失了。
So let's say, you know, thanks to AI or whatever you want to say, a million years from now, our species is done.
如果那时你来到这里，你只会看到自然。
There won't be any if you came here, you would just see nature.
到了那时，一切都会被分解、碎裂、生锈并消失殆尽。
Like, at that point, everything's broken down and crumbled and rusted and gone away.
所以外星人到来时，只会看到这颗生机勃勃的星球。
So the aliens would come, and they'd just see this lush planet.
然后他们去火星，会说：‘这到底是什么东西？’
And then they'd go to Mars and be like, what the hell are these?
因为在火星上没有氧气，东西不会分解。
Because on Mars, there's no oxygen and stuff doesn't break down.
所以一百万年后，这些火星车还会停在那里，在太空中。
So a million years from now, those rovers are gonna be sitting there space
你的东西还会在那里。
Your shit's gonna still be there.
他们会想：‘这玩意儿到底是从哪儿来的？’
And it's like, where the hell did this come from?
关于航天器的有效载荷，你学到了什么你以前不理解的东西？
What did you learn that you didn't understand about payloads going into space?
关于这一点，有什么有趣的地方？
What's interesting about that?
你知道吗，太空里有一件有趣的事，就是没有空气阻力。
You know, one thing that's interesting about space is, like, there's no air resistance.
所以一旦你升空，你基本上一开始就会持续推进。
So once you get up there and you you you start you just you just thrust at the beginning essentially.
你会加速到大约每小时两万五千英里。
You get up to about twenty twenty five thousand miles per hour.
这比子弹还要快五倍。
That's like five times faster than the Bullet.
然后你就靠惯性滑行剩下的路程。
And then you just coast for the rest of the period.
对吧？
Right?
你只是加速，然后前往九个月后火星所在的位置。
You just accelerate, and then you go to where Mars will be in nine months.
期间他们会进行三到四次微小的航向修正，但这些推进器我们称之为‘老鼠打嗝推进器’。
And they have and you get, like, three or four times do little course corrections, but those motors, we call them mouse fart motors.
因为当你距离地球九千万英里时，只在最初获得一次推力，哪怕偏差零点几度，都会让你与行星错过数万、数十万甚至上百万英里。
Because when you're 90,000,000 miles away and you're just getting that initial thrust at the beginning, you know, fractions of a degree mean you miss the planet by, you know, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousand a million miles.
所以这只是侧面一点点微小的喷射。
So it's just this tiniest little poof just to the side.
正因为如此，好吧。
And because of that, okay.
现在你将在火星转过来时撞上它。
Now you're gonna hit now you're gonna hit Mars when it comes around.
所以轨道力学的数学真的很有趣。
So it's really interesting, the math orbital mechanics.
它看起来非常复杂，但由于没有摩擦，对计算机来说其实很容易计算。
It seems really complicated, but because there is no friction, it's like, you know, for a computer, it's it's pretty easy to do.
然后我们最终学会了像轨道引力弹弓这样的技巧。
And then we we eventually learn tricks of, like, orbital slingshots.
所以你实际上会绕着行星飞行，并像弹弓一样借力加速。
So you actually go around planets and you pick up speeds kinda like, you kind of slingshot around.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yep.
所以这是一门非常迷人的科学。
So it's it's a really fascinating, you know, science.
但这就像在纽约市打高尔夫球，却在洛杉矶打出一杆进洞。
But it it's the equivalent of of hitting a golf ball in New York City and getting a hole in one in LA.
这就是将物体登陆火星的难度规模。
That's the scale of landing a planet on of landing something on Mars.
你读过尼尔·斯蒂芬森的《七次毁灭》吗？
Have you ever read Seveneves by Neal Stephenson?
没有。
No.
听说过，一本非常棒的书。
Heard of Really cool book.
很好。
Great.
任何想看科幻小说推荐的人都会喜欢。
Anyone that wants a sci fi recommendation Yeah.
科幻。
Sci fi.
应该读一读。
Should read it.
月亮在开篇第一句就爆炸了。
The moon explodes in the first land at the first line.
抱歉。
Sorry.
书的第一句话就是：月亮爆炸了。
The like, the first line of the the the book, it's the moon exploded.
这真是个吸引人的开头。
That's a hook.
在这一过程中，你会学到很多关于轨道动力学的知识，因为他们把国际空间站改造成地球人类的栖息地。
And during that, you learn a lot about orbital dynamics because they repurpose the ISS into what will be the habitat for Earth.
因为如果这种情况发生了，尼尔·斯蒂芬森的……是的。
Because if this happened and Neil Stevenson's Yeah.
这属于硬科幻，所以应该是合理的。
Hard sci fi technically, so it should be correct.
太喜欢了。
Love it.
基本上，它会解体，但你永远不知道它为什么解体。
Basically, what would happen, breaks apart, and you never find out why it broke apart.
它就是这么发生了。
It just did.
嗯。
Mhmm.
它分裂成了七块，但他们意识到，随着时间推移，这七块会相互绕行，彼此碰撞，变成十四块、二十八块。
And there's, seven pieces that it breaks into, but they realized that over time, those seven pieces would all be orbiting around each other, and they would crash into each other, and they would make fourteen and twenty eight.
然后这就会演变成他们所说的‘硬雨’——当这些碎片再也无法维持轨道时，就会全部坠落到地球，导致长达五千年甚至更久的时期内，地球都不再适宜居住。
And then it would basically turn into what they called a hard rain, which would be all of this material when it was no longer able to sustain itself in orbit would come down to earth, and it would just be oh, so it's five thousand years or whatever it is, that it's inhospitable.
所以你需要上去。
So you need to go up there.
所以我认为他们有三百天的时间离开这颗星球，他们正在使用所有的太空舱。
So they I think they have three hundred days to get themselves off the planet, and they're using all of these pods.
还有所有的外交事务。
And there's all the diplomacy.
还有地球上正在发生的一切政治斗争。
There's all of the politics of what's happening down on Earth.
比如，有多少人想从那里离开？
Like, how many people want to go from there?
显然，政客们正利用一切手段把他们的家人送走，没错。
And obviously, of the politicians are using every bit of fuckery that they can to get their family off and Right.
你知道的，钻系统的空子，然后太空中还得制定新的法律。
You know, playing with the system, and then they have to have new laws in space.
如果在太空中杀了人，这意味着什么？
What does it mean if you kill someone in space?
那是监狱吗？
Is that prison?
直接把他们扔出气闸吗？
Do just put them out the airlock?
我学到的一件事是远地点和天顶，没错。
And one of the things that I was learning about were apogees and zeniths Yep.
轨道动力学和轨道……是的。
And the way that orbital dynamics and orbital Yeah.
让两个物体相遇并不只是三维的问题。
Getting two things to come together because it's not it's not just three dimensions.
这还涉及角度、速度，所以即使对计算机来说很简单，听起来也他妈的很难。
It's also the angle and the speed and the it's so even if it is easy for a computer, it sounded pretty fucking hard.
是的。
Yeah.
而且这确实是个问题，比如太空垃圾的概念。
And it's a real problem, like the concept of space junk.
比如说，按照你的说法，如果两颗卫星在太空中相撞，各自产生大约5000块碎片，那么你现在就得追踪这全部5000块碎片。
Of, like, if, to your point, if two satellites crash into each other in space and they each create, you know, 5,000 pieces of debris, now you have to track all 5,000 of those.
而且可能会出现失控的情况，碎片开始不断碰撞。
And you could have a runaway problem where just stuff just starts crashing
就像月亮爆炸那样。
Like when the moon exploded.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
但这是关于我们自己的卫星。
But with our own satellites.
所以我们追踪所有大于一定尺寸的物体。
So that's why we track everything over the size.
我觉得是高尔夫球大小。
I think it is a golf ball.
我们始终知道它在环绕地球轨道上的位置。
We know where it is at all times orbiting our planet.
因为没有真空吸尘器可以飞上去把垃圾清理掉。
Because there's no vacuum cleaner to just go up and
没有。
No.
还没有。
Not yet.
但已经有一些任务在研究如何清理太空垃圾。
But there are missions of, like, how do we clean up space junk?
他们正在积极开发方法，前往清理废弃的卫星。
They're actively working on ways to go up and, like, clean defunct satellites.
现在如果你发射一个东西，我只是刚造了一颗卫星，这太疯狂了。
And now if you put something up, we just I just built a satellite, which is wild.
你可以这么做，把我们发射的东西送入太空。
You could do that, where you we put it into space.
你可以上传你的照片到它上面，屏幕上会显示这张照片。
You can upload your picture to it, and there's a screen that will display a picture.
然后有一个摄像头会拍摄这张照片。
Then there's a camera that will take a picture of that.
所以，基本上你就能在太空中拍一张自拍。
So, basically, you get a selfie in space.
你去 spaceselfie.com 就行。
You go to spaceselfie.com.
我们免费做了这个项目，作为面向孩子们的科普活动，激发他们对太空的兴趣。
We did it for free as, like, an outreach to kids to get stoked about space.
我们建造了它，并在六个月前发射了上去。
And we built this and launched it, like, six months ago.
已经有上百万人提交了他们的照片。
We have a million pictures people have submitted.
我们每天都在持续接收这些照片。
We're actively taking them every day.
但其中一部分是，当你上传之后，你必须提供一个离轨计划。
But part of that is when you put that up, they you have to prompt you have to have a deorbit plan.
所以大约五年后，它会重新返回大气层并烧毁。
So in five about five years, it will come back down and burn up.
哇。
Wow.
这就像凭签证获准进入一个国家一样。
That's like being allowed into a country on a visa Yeah.
然后他们问你：你打算什么时候离开？
And them saying, and when do you intend on leaving?
完全正确。
That's a 100%.
你什么时候提交自杀式返回的计划？
When do you present on, like, suiciding yourself?
让这东西坠毁着陆。
Crash crash landing this this thing back
然后。
then.
嗯，它会烧毁。
Well, it burns up.
对吧？
Right?
所以摩擦力非常大。
So the friction is so high.
哦，那已经足够了。
Oh, that would be enough.
是的。
Yeah.
所以大多数东西都是一次性使用的。
So most stuff, there's very Disposable.
是的。
Yeah.
本质上。
Essentially.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这就是原因。
So that's why.
只要退役意味着你下降到足够低的海拔，那里就有足够的空气分子，你会开始感受到越来越大的阻力。
As long as you decommission means you come to a low enough altitude, there's enough air molecules there you start getting more and more drag.
它开始升温，没有任何东西能到达地面。
It starts heating up, and nothing makes it to the ground.
哇。
Wow.
好的。
Okay.
我学到了一些关于太空政治的知识。
I learned about astropolitics.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
现在我想知道，谁拥有月球？
Now that, I think, is so who owns the moon?
这个特定的陨石归谁所有？
Who owns this particular meteor?
位于你国家正上方的地球静止轨道区域属于你吗？
Is the geostationary territory directly above your country yours?
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
有多远？
How far out?
是的。
Yeah.
如果我制造了一个比那更远一点的地球静止物体呢？
What if I create something that's geostationary and is a little bit further out than that?
我觉得这类事情正是科幻与现实完美交汇的典范。
And I think I so that sort of stuff to me is it's the perfect intersection of this should be sci fi, but it has to be real life.
嗯。
Yeah.
那当我们去火星的时候，又会发生什么？
And and what's even happened when we go to Mars?
比如，如果埃隆最先到达火星，他就能直接宣称拥有它吗？
Like, who owns you know, if Elon gets to Mars first, does he get just get to claim it?
是那个国家拥有它吗？
Is it the country that owns it?
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，如果我们捕获了一颗小行星，并成功使全球的锂或黄金储量翻倍，那会发生什么？
Well, I mean, that we're also what would happen if we got we captured some asteroid and managed to double the entire planet's lithium or gold?
是的。
Yeah.
股市会怎样？
What happens to the stock market?
会发生什么？这意味着什么？
What happen what does it mean?
因为这些资源的整合方式几乎都是基于一个封闭系统。
Because almost all of the way that those resources are put together is done based on a a closed system.
是的。
Yeah.
如果你开始向这个封闭系统中加入新东西，所有的数学模型都会崩溃。
And then if you start adding stuff into the closed system, all the maths breaks.
这就是AI变得奇怪的地方。
Well, this is where, like, AI gets weird.
对吧？
Right?
就像所有以往适用的规则突然都不管用了。
It's just like all the rules that have normally applied just, like, don't.
我不知道。
And I don't know.
存在这样一个世界，我们会看到一些根本性的变化。
There's a world where we see some pretty fundamental changes.
嗯，我的意思是，
Well, like well, I mean,
就拿之前那个类比来说吧，从农业社会到工业革命，那对社会来说是个巨大的转变。
just like going, you know, for this analogy before, but, you know, going from the, you know, farming agriculture to the industrial revolution, like, that was a big change for society.
经历那个过程是相当痛苦的。
To go through that was kind of painful.
很多农民最终不得不去工厂工作。
There was a lot of farmers that end up having to go to the factories.
对吧？
Right?
我认为在未来十年、二十年里，我们会看到类似的变化，这不再是仅仅‘哦，这里有一种更好的耕种方式’这样的改变。
And I think we're we're going to see that in the next ten, twenty years, like a similar change, where it's just a big instead of just like, oh, here's a better way to farm.
这里有一种更好的耕种方式。
Here's a better way to farm.
这些是随着时间推移逐渐发生的渐进式变化。
Those are incremental changes over time.
从农业转向工厂是一次巨大而根本性的转变。
Farming to the factories was a big massive step change.
我觉得这类变革正逐渐逼近。
And I feel like those kind of things are coming down the pipeline.
曾经有一个完整的行业。
There was a a whole industry.
我想是纽约市的粪便清运工。
I think it was muck shovelers in New York City.
嗯。
Mhmm.
马匹。
The horses.
因为所有东西都是马车拉的。
Because everything was horse drawn carriage.
嗯。
Yeah.
所以不仅仅是主要的事情。
So it's not just the main thing.
而是所有由此衍生的附属产业。
It's all of the ancillary industries that trickle down from it.
没错。
That's right.
这些都将消失。
And that's gonna go.
是的。
Yeah.
但可能甚至更多，因为计算机几乎可以做所有工作。
But almost potentially even more because it's like the computers can do just all of the jobs.
你知道的？
You know?
比如说，原本这里有座山。
It's like, generally, you can go from, oh, there was this hill.
水位上涨了。
The water rose.
好吧。
Okay.
现在我们去另一座山吧。
Now let's go over to this other hill.
你知道的？
You know?
总有一天，还会剩下山吗？
At some point, are there hills left?
对吧？
Right?
那这意味着什么？
And what does that mean?
你在NASA工作时学到了哪些东西，这些经验永久地改变了你处理项目、生产力或效率的方式？
What are some of the things you learned from working at NASA that sort of permanently rewind the way that you approach projects or productivity or efficiency?
那里一定有一些相当新颖的基本原则。
There must be some fundamental principles that were pretty novel there.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得就是这种理念，你知道的，我喜欢动手做东西。
I think it's this idea of just like you know, of you know, I like building things.
对吧？
Right?
人们在尝试制造东西时犯的最严重的错误，就是一上来就想直接做出最终版本。
And the the number one mistake people make when they try and make something is try and make they try and make the final version first.
比如，我想做一个鸟食器。
Like, I wanna build a bird feeder.
我会直接做出鸟食器的最终版本，一开始就做成品。
I'm going to build the bird feeder, but I'm gonna build the final version of it out of the gate.
但其实，你把东西送上火星、真正做出任何东西，靠的是原型。
As opposed to, which is how you put stuff on Mars and really make anything, prototypes.
你先快速粗糙地做出来一个。
You just do something quick and dirty first.
事实上，你会做四个左右。
In fact, you do, like, four of them.
然后你不断调整、尝试，这些原型不应该好看。
And you you tweak and try and and those they shouldn't be pretty.
它们很丑。
They're ugly.
它们只是用来测试的，你可以从中学到东西。
They're meant to just be tests, and you learn from them.
在你积累了所有这些经验之后，顺便说一句，有些原型你还会弄坏。
And then once you've established all those learning and by the way, some of those prototypes, you break.
你故意让它们失败，以了解它们的极限。
You intentionally fail them to learn the limits.
当你完成所有这些学习后，你就足够了解如何尝试最终版本了。
And then once you've done all that learning, now you know enough to attempt the final thing.
因此，NASA的这种理念深深植根于我心中，我现在也将其应用到我的生活中，用于制作我的YouTube频道内容，甚至包括如何经营YouTube频道，就像我不确定一样。
And so really ingrained in the philosophy of NASA, which is something I've now taken into my life and how I make builds for my YouTube channel and even approach YouTube is like, I don't know.
比如，我不知道答案，但你知道吗？
Like, I don't know the answer, but you know what?
我可以去测试一下，找出答案。
I could test to find out.
所以每当我们做任何事情时，都会经历许多失败的版本，才能最终得到成品。
So whenever we do anything, it's like there's so many versions that fail before you get to the final output.
而失败，正是目标。
And failing is the goal.
你想把这东西弄坏。
Like, you want to break this thing.
所以如果我知道必须为火星车设计轮子，我会用三种材料来做。
So if I know I have to design the wheels for the rover, you know, I'm gonna make them out of three materials.
我会在电脑上做一些分析，然后做出各种不同厚度的版本。
I'm gonna do some analysis on a computer, and then I'm gonna have a bunch of different thicknesses.
我会进行测试，然后把它砸碎。
And I'm gonna test it, and I'm gonna smash it.
我会故意把它弄坏，因为当我得到最终答案时，我能确切知道为什么是这样，以及它的全部极限——它到底能做什么。
I'm gonna break it because now I'm confident when I have my final answer, I know exactly why it is and the full limits of it, like, what it's capable of.
你对失败的态度是怎样的？
What's your relationship like with failure?
我拥抱失败，而且我会教导别人这样做。
I, like, I embrace failure, and I, like, I teach that.
所以在我之前的视频里，我们做了一个守门机器人，它以每小时40英里的速度来回移动，然后追踪足球。
So in my videos so we just did a video where we made a goalie robot that goes back and forth at, like, 40 miles an hour, and then you track the soccer ball, the football.
然后守门员会移动去阻止射门进球。
And then the goalie will move to stop the shot from going in.
我们让C罗尝试攻破它。
And we trusted Cristiano Ronaldo tried to go against it.
嗯。
Mhmm.
笑点在于，他根本毫无机会。
And the the punch line is he has no prayer.
即使从点球点以每小时80英里的速度射门，这个守门员在最初的六毫秒内，就能知道该移动到哪个位置。
Even from the penalty kick spot, kicking it 80 miles an hour, this thing, in the first six in the first six milliseconds, we knew where the goalie needed to be.
这意味着球从这里出发。
That means the ball goes from here.
一旦球移动了一英寸，我们就确切知道该去哪里拦截。
Once it's moved an inch, we know exactly where we need to be.
怎么做到的？
How?
因为你只有三个点。
Because you just have three points.
我们以500赫兹进行追踪。
We're tracking at, 500 hertz.
对。
Right.
抱歉。
Or sorry.
嗯。
Yeah.
500赫兹。
500 hertz.
所以每两毫秒，我们就拍一张快照，咔嚓，停，再拍一张。
So it's like every two milliseconds, we take a snapshot, snap, stop, snapshot.
所以你只有三个点，三个点组成两条线，把这两条线连起来。
And so you just three points make two points make a line, connect that line.
好的。
Okay.
我们需要直接到那里。
We need to go right there.
实际上，这比眨眼的一半还要快，它就已经到位了。
So literally, it's it's less than a blink half of a blink of an eye, and it's already in spot.
感觉它甚至还没离开他的脚。
It feels like it probably hasn't even left his foot.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
That's right.
当我们知道时，即使以每小时40英里的速度，也需要一点时间，
And when we know, and then it takes a little bit of time, even at 40 miles an hour,
会有些晃动。
takes some wobble.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
但在这个过程中，我们失败了无数次。
Just, so in that though, we failed so many times.
对吧？
Right?
在我看来，失败是过程的一部分。
And to me, failure is part of the process.
我想展示出来，尤其是看这个视频的孩子们，我想让他们知道，情况就是这样。
And I want to show, you know, especially kids who watch the video, I want them to know that, that this is the case.
对吧？
Right?
我们创办了一家公司，叫Crunch Labs，主要是每月寄送一些玩具到你家门口。
We started a company called Crunch Labs that is like basically these toys that deliver your month porch every month.
你把它组装起来，然后我会提供一个视频，教给你让这个玩具运转起来的有趣物理原理。
You put them together, and then there's a video for me where I teach you, like, the juicy physics that make the toy work.
很多时候，这些玩具并不能完美地工作。
A lot of times with those toys, they don't quite work perfectly.
比如，我们故意设计成当你刚组装好时，像第一个投掷盘这样的装置，飞行效果并不理想。
Like, we intentionally make it so right when you put it together, like the disc launcher is the first one, it's not optimal flying.
如果我们希望他们去调整、去改变，比如移动一下这个橡皮筋，或者稍微推一下这里，哦，现在我飞得更远了。
If we want them to tweak and to change and to move this rubber band here and to push this a little bit, oh, and now, oh, now I'm getting to go farther.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这种通过自己努力获得的成功，比一上来就顺利运行的感觉要好得多。
And that victory feels so much better than if it just worked out of the gate.
对吧？
Right?
你知道宜家效应吗？
You know the IKEA effect?
是的。
Yeah.
我想我听说过这个。
I think I've heard of this.
一样的道理。
Same thing.
是的。
Yeah.
这就像自己摘的草莓和便宜的草莓之间的区别。
It's the difference between, pick your own strawberries and cheap strawberries.
对吧？
Right?
我我真的自己摘过草莓。
You I I picked my own strawberries.
我真的在乎这件事。
I really care about this thing.
人们可以去宜家买性价比不错的家具，人们往往比对待那些更精致、更昂贵的预制家具更珍惜自己的宜家家具。
People you can go to IKEA, which is nice budget furniture, I guess, and people love their IKEA pieces more than nicer, more expensive pieces that were prefabricated and made for them.
我认为他们衡量的标准是你保留它的时间有多长。
And I think they measure that by, like, how long you hold onto it.
对吧？
Right?
你不太可能把宜家的家具送人，因为你花时间去组装它
You you're much less likely to give away the a fur the IKEA furniture because you put that
他妈的花了一个下午的时间去弄它。
Fucking spent an afternoon with it.
我们为此争论过。
We had an argument about that.
我不会把它送人。
I'm not gonna give it away.
所以对我来说，我把挑战当作电子游戏来对待。
So to me, like, I treat my I I treat challenges sort of like a video game.
这就像游戏化，很多时候人们会把失败内化。
It's like gamification where, you know, a lot of times what happens is people internalize failure.
他们说，比如考试考砸了。
And they say, like, you have a bad test.
我就是不擅长学习。
I'm just I'm I'm bad at school.
感情破裂了，我就不会谈恋爱。
A bad breakup, I'm not good at the love thing.
生意失败了，我就不会做生意。
Business fails, I suck at business.
但在视频游戏中，你知道，如果你拿起手柄，然后掉进坑里，你不会想，‘我真不擅长玩游戏，我不想玩了。’
But in, like, video games, you know, if you pick up the controller and you go and you fall into a pit, you're not like, oh, I'm bad at video games, and I don't wanna do this.
这太糟了。
This sucks.
你马上就会想，‘哎呀，糟糕。’
Immediately, you're like, oh, shoot.
我想再试一次。
I wanna try this again.
比如，我学到了什么？
Like, what did I learn?
我要再快一点。
I 'm gonna go a little faster.
我要跳得再早一点。
I'm gonna jump a little earlier.
对吧？
Right?
你感到兴奋，因为你并不把失败看作是内在的缺陷，你关注的是拯救被库巴抓走的公主。
You're excited because you're not you don't view it you're you're not viewing the failure as internally, and you're focused on, you know, rescuing princess from Bowser.
你专注于最终目标。
You're focusing on the end goal.
所以，如果你能像这样对待生活中的挑战和失败，稍微游戏化一下，这是一个非常有效的框架。
And so if you could treat your life challenges and failure like that, kinda gamify it, it's a framework that really works.
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我觉得这正是我们做视频时采用的方法，无论是这个C罗的视频，还是我尝试过的任何其他人。
And I feel like this is my approach for the videos we do, this Ronaldo one or really anyone that I've attempted.
我们还做过一个飞镖盘的，也是那种会移动、追踪飞镖的。
We did another one of a dartboard, Same thing that moves, tracks the dart.
但在那个项目里，如果你把飞镖交给你的朋友，系统就会识别那是他的飞镖，然后镖盘会朝相反方向移动。
Although in that one, if your buddy you give the dart to your buddy, then it can register that it's his dart, and then the board moves the opposite way.
所以他根本不可能投中靶心。
So instead of getting a bullseye, he can't even hit the board.
然后again，失败了无数次，但并没有觉得‘我太菜了’。
And then there again, tons of failures, but it wasn't like, I suck at this.
而是想，好吧。
It's like, okay.
我又知道了一种不能这么做的方法。
I know one more way not to do this.
这确实挺让人难受的。
It stings.
这仍然像在电子游戏中一样令人沮丧，但你会想，你知道吗？
It still stings just like it stings in a video game, but you're like, you know what?
我们重新来过吧。
Let's get back on it.
再试一次。
Let's try again.
你觉得，那些玩电子游戏时能开心地反复挑战同一关卡的人，和那些经历分手、在工作中做演讲失败或求职受挫的人，区别在哪里？
What do you think is the difference between people that play video games and happily will have a go at the same level over and over again and people that go go through a breakup or try to give a presentation at work and it doesn't go well or apply for a job?
你说得对。
You're right.
本质上都是一样的，这是一场迭代的游戏。
The the fundamental is the same, that this is an iterative game.
你在这上面有多次机会。
You have multiple lives at this thing.
你在多大程度上能把科学实验中学到的经验应用到现实生活中？
How successful have you been at being able to take the learnings from science experiment across into real life?
我的意思是，我觉得这在现实生活中也适用。
I mean, I think it works in real life too.
比如，你看小孩子学走路的时候，对吧？
Like, you see this, for example, with kids, like toddlers, right, when they're learning to walk.
当他们没能成功走路时，并不会想：‘我真差劲。’
When they don't, like, successfully walk, they're not like, oh, I suck at this.
对吧？
Right?
他们会立刻兴奋地想再试一次。
They're immediately excited to try again.
因此，我们在0到5岁期间学到的东西比任何其他时期都多，因为我们根本不会把失败放在心上。
And as a result, we learn more in the ages of zero to five than we do in any other period because we're just like, failure isn't in our brains.
我们只是对学习和做酷炫的事情感到兴奋。
We're just excited to learn and do cool stuff.
对吧？
Right?
我真的觉得，在我的生活中，我热爱那些能够提升技能、不断进步的机会，并把它们看作像电子游戏一样。
And I do genuinely feel like in my life, I love opportunities for mastery and opportunities to get better at something and to view it like a video game.
比如，我不喜欢公开演讲。
Like, I don't like public speaking.
真的，我讨厌它。
Truly, I hate it.
它让我非常紧张。
It makes me really nervous.
这正是我目前正在努力实现的目标之一。
And that's one of my goals right now that I'm working on.
我请了一位演讲教练。
I've got, like, a speaking coach.
我将在四月发表一场TED演讲。
I've got a TED Talk coming up in April.
我真的希望能让公开演讲变成一件我真正享受的事情。
Like, I I really wanna get public speaking is, like, something I actually enjoy.
嗯。
Mhmm.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得我在这方面真的很擅长。
And I feel like I'm really good at it.
或者，你知道的，去健身房。
Or, like, you know, going to the gym.
我这辈子从来没认真锻炼过。
I'd never worked out really at all in my life.
大概两年前吧。
Two years ago about.
我当时想，我就想试试这件事。
I was like, I think I just wanna try this thing.
这每天提供了一个小时的机会，让我可以做到完美。
And it's an opportunity every day for an hour where I could just be perfect.
我可以把全部精力都投入进去。
I could just give it everything I can.
而且能看到那种像电子游戏升级一样的渐进成果。
And and to see the incremental results of literally like a video game leveling up.
有时候有些事行不通，有时候又行得通。
Sometimes some stuff doesn't work, sometimes does.
我真的很渴望这些机会。
Like, I I crave those opportunities.
两年来，我增肌了30磅，减掉了15磅脂肪。
And I've lost I've gained, like, 30 pounds of muscle, lost 15 pounds of fat in two years now.
就是那些新手增益啊，老兄。
Just Those noob gains, dude.
新手增益。
The noob gains.
天哪。
Oh, man.
我记得很清楚。
I remember them so well.
不同的是，对我来说，当我刚开始训练时，那是二十年前了。
Difference is it was twenty maybe twenty years ago for me now when I started training.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，这很棒。
I mean, it's great.
这是生活中为数不多的事情之一，你能提前看到，如果你继续做下去，未来会变成什么样子——那种肌肉充血的预览。
It's one of the few things in life where you get a preview of what you will be like if you keep doing this in the future, the pump preview.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，如果我试着造一辆车，是的。
So the fact that if I try to build a car Yeah.
因为我刚刚试着造了一辆车，所以我现在造车的技术，还没有六个月后那么好。
I'm not as good as I will be at building cars in six months' time now because I just tried to build a car.
嗯。
Yeah.
但如果我去健身房锻炼并感到肌肉充血，那就是我六个月后如果继续下去的样子。
But if I go to the gym and I get a pump on, that is me flat in six months if I keep going.
我喜欢这个说法。
I love that.
我从来没听过
I've never heard
少数能让你提前看到未来自己的事情之一，我正在学意大利语。
of the few things that you get a preview of the future, I'm learning Italian.
嗯。
Yeah.
你不会在变差之前短暂地变得更好。
You don't briefly become better at Italian before becoming worse at Italian.
就像，你只是随着时间推移一点一点地积累。
Like, you just accumulate it over time and over time and
随着时间的推移。
over time.
这太棒了。
That's so good.
我从来没听说过，也没这么想过。
I've never heard of that or thought of it that way.
那还有效吗？
Does that still work then?
如果你说的是新手增益。
If You said the noob gains.
那当你练出肌肉泵感时会发生什么？
Now what happens when you get the pump on?
你会想：我永远不可能变成那样。
You're like, I will never be that.
那只是我的泵感状态。
That's only my pump self.
我想这取决于你训练的持续性。
I suppose well, I guess it depends how consistent you're training.
如果这是它如此上瘾、让人不断坚持的原因之一的话。
If that is one of the reasons it's so addictive that people keep going.
即使你觉得我已经到达极限了，这已经是我的身体在不借助任何增强手段的情况下能承载的最大肌肉量了。
Even if you you think I've hit my limit, this is as much muscle as my body is going to be able to carry without adding in some, you know, enhancement.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你还是想继续追求它。
You still wanna chase it.
因为即使只是今天剩下的时间，你知道，我看起来依然很健壮。
Because even if it's just for the rest of the day, you know, I still look pretty jacked.
跟我谈谈那种精通的感觉吧。
What a talk to me about that mastery thing.
我觉得你说得对。
I think that you're right.
我和你都注重细节，嗯。
We me and you both have a eye for detail Mhmm.
一种痴迷的程度。
Degree of obsession.
你是怎么学会平衡这一点的？
How have you come to learn balancing that?
因为这会带来很多好处。
Because there's a lot of benefits that come from it.
嗯。
Yeah.
但这也可能是一种痛苦的强迫行为。
But there's also it it can be a painful compulsion to have.
嗯。
Yeah.
我的意思是，就像所有事情一样，关键是适度，把握好界限。
I mean, it's just like with everything, it's like moderation, like taking it to a limit.
我觉得我擅长对很多事情说不，这很有帮助。
I think I am good at saying no to a lot and which can help.
所以我不会承担太多事情。
So it's like I don't take a lot on.
比如，我有五个非常亲密的朋友，而不是五十个泛泛之交。
Like, if, you know, I've got, like, five really close friends as opposed to, like, 50 kind of good friends.
类似的情况。
A similar thing.
所以我会挑选少数几件事深入去做。
So I'll pick a handful of things that I will go deep on.
我觉得困难的地方在于，你试图在每件事上都深入，那样你会感到不堪重负并耗尽精力。
I think where it can get tough is you're trying to go deep on everything, and then you're gonna get overwhelmed and burn out.
但没错。
But yeah.
我的意思是，我认为每件事都有代价。
I mean, I think there's a cost for everything.
比如，我可能确实如此。
Like, I probably yeah.
如果你过于专注于一件事，而牺牲了其他很多方面，那就可能成为一种挑战。
Where it's like if you if you are if you're too focused on a thing at the cost of a lot of other things, then it can be a challenge.
我确实和MrBeast有过这样的对话。
And I do have some you know, I have this conversation with MrBeast.
他也是个YouTuber。
He's another YouTuber.
他是世界上最大的YouTuber。
He's like the biggest YouTuber in the world.
他说，你可以选择成为我，或者选择快乐。
And he's like he's like, you could be me or you could be happy.
选择吧。
Like, choose
然后哪个
And which
他承认
he admits
哦，吉米。
Oh, Jimmy.
他的大脑多巴胺水平很高。
He has a very dopaminergic brain.
嗯。
Mhmm.
多巴胺并不在乎拥有东西。
And, like, dopamine isn't enter dopamine isn't interested in having things.
多巴胺在乎的是获得东西。
Dopamine is interested in getting things.
那就是奖励化学物质。
Like, that's the reward chemical.
对吧？
Right?
他喜欢升级，但这对他来说非常困难。
And he loves leveling up, but it's really hard for him.
如果他的视频获得了三亿次播放，他会想：为什么不是三亿三千万次呢？
If he gets a video that gets 300,000,000 views, he's like, why couldn't that have been 330,000,000?
对吧？
Right?
我这里是在引用他的话。
And I'm quoting him here.
他很有自知之明，但这并不改变一个事实：你知道，当你看到像这样的人，或者像埃隆·马斯克这样拥有类似大脑的人时，你并不想要他们的大脑。
Like, he's self aware, but it doesn't change the fact that it's like you know and so when you look at someone like that or like an Elon Musk is sort of a similar brain, it's like, you don't want their brains.
而且，他们会告诉你，你真的不想要他们的大脑。
And, like, they'll tell you you don't want their brains.
在某种程度上，他们无法感到满足，因为他们总是需要更多。
Like, they can't there's a level where they can't be satisfied because they just need more.
我认为，历史上许多伟大的变革——如果你回望过去——往往是由类似大脑的人推动的，他们对更多有着近乎执念的追求，从而改变了历史。
And it leads I think a lot of the amazing change that has come in our world historically, you know, if you look back, was kind of people with similar brains who are just so driven for more that they affect history.
嗯，不断推动确实非常适应环境，对吧。
Well, it's very adaptive, right, to keep on pushing.
因为一个部落里只需要一两个这样的人就够了。
Because you only need one or two people like that in a tribe.
没错。
Yeah.
他们会找到那个长满果实灌木的新山谷。
And they will find the new valley that's got the bushes that have the fruit.
是的。
Yes.
其中一些人会死去，但那又怎样呢？
And some of them will die, but so what?
只有少数人会死去。
Like, only a few of them will die.
但那些决定思考的人，我想说的是布莱恩·约翰逊
But the ones that do decide I think about Brian Johnson,
健康，老兄。
health dude.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
就像这样。
Like this.
我想起他，或者像埃隆，甚至像MrBeast。
He I I think of him or, like, an Elon or even the mister beast.
他们就像军队里的侦察兵。
They're kind of like scouts in an army.
完全正确。
Totally.
如果一支军队全是侦察兵可就不好了。
I wouldn't do to have an army filled with scouts.
老实说，我不想当侦察兵。
Frankly, I don't wanna be a scout.
我不想爬那座可能非常危险、很可能丧命的悬崖。
I don't wanna climb up that cliff that's probably treacherous and very well may die.
是的。
Yeah.
但他们会上去，然后回来告诉我们他们看到了什么。
But they'll go up there and tell us they'll come back and tell us what they've seen.
是的。
Yeah.
我告诉过我们能从中受益。
And I told We'll benefit from that.
没错。
That's right.
我跟吉米说过这个，他对此很清楚。
And I tell Jimmy this, and he's aware of it.
他像在灌木丛中劈砍前进，好多次都砍到了一条糟糕透顶的小路。
He's like whacking through the bush, and so many times he whacks on a path that was just terrible.
先生。
Mr.
比斯特堡格。
Beastburger.
对吧？
Right?
随便吧。
Whatever.
是的。
Yep.
他经历过很多公认的死胡同，但美妙的是，当我看到那些行得通的路径时，就会想：太感谢了。
He's had a lot of admitted, like, dead ends, but what's beautiful is that then I see the ones that work, and it's like, oh, thank you.
现在我可以走过这条小路了。
Now I could trodden this path.
基本上是砍出来的。
That's hacked down, basically.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
当然我会做自己的版本，但主要路径上，像这样的人帮助打破了这些玻璃天花板，这对很多人都是有益的。
And obviously do my own versions of that, but, like, the main path, people like that help break these glass ceilings, and that benefits a lot of others.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
但我确实认为，多巴胺逐渐消退的这种特性，确实是大脑的一个特点，而不是缺陷。
I I do think though that that feature of sort of the dopamine wearing off, I I do feel like that is a that is a feature and not a bug of our brains.
对吧？
Right?
比如说，假设有一只郊狼在追一只兔子，兔子突然灵巧地一跃，成功逃脱并活了下来。
In the sense that, like, let's say you had a let's say there's, like, a coyote chasing a bunny and, like, the bunny leaps out of the way and makes this amazing move and survives that.
对吧？
Right?
你的大脑会释放大量的奖励化学物质，告诉你：干得好。
You're gonna get a lot of reward chemicals to your brain being like, good job.
你活下来了。
You lived.
现在我有机会继续传递你体内的基因。
Now I have a chance to continue to pass this DNA on that's inside you.
你会得到奖励。
You're gonna get rewarded.
而且人群中可能有一些人，他们的多巴胺持续了整整三周，只是躺在这种酷炫的情绪上休息。
And there was probably some buddies in the population who had that dopamine last for, like, three weeks just being like resting on the laurels of this sick mood.
我他娘的就是勒布朗·詹姆斯。
I'm the fucking LeBron James.
我就是勒布朗·詹姆斯。
I'm the LeBron James.
只是坐在那儿，放松着，吃着东西。
Just sitting back, relaxing Eating.
一想到这些，这些基因就会从基因库中被淘汰，因为他们沉溺于这种状态。
Thinking about that immediately, those genes are removed from the gene pool because they look they bask in that.
所以这里有一个恰到好处的平衡：我会让你对这件事感觉良好，但随后又会让它消失，让你想要再试一次。
So there's this, like, sweet spot of, like, I'm gonna make you feel good about this, but then I'm gonna make it go away so you want to try again.
我认为人们对倦怠的误解就在于此，这有点像在跑步机上跑步。
And I think that's a mistake people make with burnout is like, I could it's kinda like running on a treadmill.
当你刚踏上跑步机时，感觉很兴奋。
When you get on the treadmill, it's exciting.
你正在获得那些奖励化学物质。
You're getting those reward chemicals.
这真的很好玩。
This is really fun.
但最终，这些奖励化学物质会消退，而你仍在冲刺，因为你一直在加速跑步机，因为这很刺激。
And what happens eventually though is those reward chemicals subside, but you're still sprinting because you crank this treadmill because you could because it's exciting.
我认为倦怠就是当你知道你仍在投入同样的努力，却不再获得相应的奖励化学物质。
And I think burnout is when you know, you're still putting in the same input, but you're not getting the reward chemicals for it.
因此，我真正努力做到的一件事是让我的跑步机保持慢跑的速度。
And so one thing I really try and do is keep my treadmill at a jogging pace.
我可以做到这一点。
I can do this.
曾经有一段时间，YouTube的算法认为，如果你每天发布Vlog，那就是成功的必要条件。
There was a time in the YouTube algorithm where they wanted if you did daily vlogs, that was, like, what you need to do to be successful.
我当时就想，我做不到那样。
And I was like, I can't do that.
我一个月做一条就够了。
I can do, like, one a month.
我就像是这件事里的乌龟。
And I've just kind of, like, tortoise in the hair of this thing.
嗯。
Mhmm.
现在十四年过去了，你已经有了七千两百万订阅者。
And now fourteen years later, you have got, like, 72,000,000 subscribers.
而且还在继续。
And still going.
还在继续，而且依然充满热情。
And still going and still stoked.
我离倦怠比以往任何时候都更远。
And, like, I'm as far away from burnout as as I as I've ever been.
嗯。
Mhmm.
对。
Right.
你知道红皇后效应吗？
You know the red queen effect?
不知道。
No.
我不是。
I'm not.
和那个有关？
With that?
不是。
Uh-uh.
在《爱丽丝梦游仙境》中有一个场景，爱丽丝围着树跑，她必须越跑越快，越跑越快，却始终原地不动。
So there's a scene in Alice in Wonderland where Alice is running around the tree, and she has to run faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and doesn't get anywhere.
女王说：你看，亲爱的，你现在必须尽全力奔跑，才能保持原地不动。
And the queen says, you see, my dear, you now have to run as fast as you can just to stay in the same place.
当我想到人们把生活搞得过于复杂时，每个人都会陷入这种困境。
And I think about when people overcomplicate their lives, which everybody falls prey to.
这就像我在对自己说话。
Like, this is me speaking to me.
没错。
Yeah.
别说得那么居高临下。
Fucking speak down.
但当人们把生活搞得过于复杂时，我认为人类其实很擅长应对节奏。
But when people overcomplicate their lives you're able to I think humans are pretty good at dealing with pace.
没错。
Yeah.
他们能应对困难，却难以应对复杂性。
They're able to deal with difficulty, but not complexity.
我认为问题就在于这种复杂性。
And I think that it's what it's the complexity.
复杂性真的会对系统造成损害。
Complication really is damaging to the system.
嗯。
Mhmm.
如果你有一天，看着它，发现有五件不同的事情需要做，比如得把税表完成。
If you've got a day and you look at it and there's five different things that you need to do, and it's gotta finish my taxes.
我得和团队打一个重要电话，我妈妈也要来。
I've got that really important call to do with the team and that my mom's coming around.
我得和她谈一谈，那肯定会很尴尬。
I'm gonna have to have that conversation with her, and that's gonna be awkward.
然后我还得写那篇文章，感觉糟透了。
And then I need to write that thing for it it feels horrible.
但如果你一整天只专注做其中一件事，接连不断地做，生活会显得简单一些，如果那就是你全部的生活内容的话。
Whereas if you just had a a full day of one of those things back to back, it feels a little bit more simple if that was all you did with your life.
嗯。
Yeah.
所以，像给自己安排太多任务这样的事，就像是去自助餐时把一大堆食物堆到盘子里，然后假设自己的胃能自动扩大来装下所有食物。
So couple of things like putting too much on your plate would be like going into a buffet and piling literally piling up all of this workload and then assuming that your stomach would expand to be able to fill it.
比如，我会想：‘我既然答应了，就一定能做完所有这些事。’
Like, oh, I'm gonna be able to fit all of this in because I said I would do it.
对。
Right.
我一定能做完。
I will be able do it.
对。
Right.
但这并不是事情的运作方式。
Which is not the way that
事情不是这样的。
it works.
是的。
Yeah.
就像自助餐再美味，你的胃也不会无限扩张来容纳所有食物一样。
In the same way as no matter how delicious the buffet is Yeah.
你的胃不可能无限扩大来装下所有食物。
Your stomach isn't gonna just infinitely expand to be able to fit the food in.
对。
Yeah.
一天只有二十四小时。
There's only twenty four hours in a day.
没错。
Correct.
对。
Yeah.
而且对于复杂性这一点，你的系统是为处理工作而设计的，但不是为处理复杂性而设计的。
And then the same thing for the complexity point that your system is built to handle work, but it's not built to handle complication.
我们稍后再继续讨论。
We'll get back to talking in just one second.
但首先，如果你最近感觉有些迟钝，那可能是你的睾酮水平出了问题。
But first, if you have been feeling a bit sluggish, your testosterone levels might be the problem.
它们在你的能量、专注力和表现中起着至关重要的作用。
They play a huge role in your energy, your focus, and your performance.
但大多数人根本不知道自己的睾酮水平是多少，也不知道出了问题该怎么办。
But most people have no idea where those are or what to do if something's off.
这就是我与Function合作的原因——我想找到一种更智能、更全面的方式来真正了解自己身体内部发生了什么。
Which is why I partnered with Function because I wanted a smarter and more comprehensive way to actually understand what's happening inside of my body.
他们每年两次进行实验室检测，监测超过100种生物标志物。
Twice a year, they run lab tests that monitor over 100 biomarkers.
他们有一支医生团队分析数据，并为你提供切实可行的建议，以改善健康和延长寿命。
They've got a team of physicians that analyse the data and give you actionable advice to improve your health and lifespan.
看到你一年内睾酮水平的变化趋势，并获得切实可行的改善建议，能为你提供一条清晰的路径，让你的生活变得更好。
And seeing your testosterone levels charted over the course of a year with actionable insights to actually improve them gives you a clear path to making your life better.
通常，进行这样的血液检测和分析需要花费数千美元，但通过Function，只需499美元。
Getting your blood work drawn and analyzed like this would usually cost thousands, but with Function, it's just $499.
而现在，你可以享受100美元的折扣，价格降至399美元。
And right now, you can get a $100 off, bringing it down to $399.
通过访问描述中的链接或前往functionhealth.com/modernwisdom，获取我和我一样的血液检测套餐，节省这100美元。
Get the exact same blood panels that I get and save that $100 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom.
那就是functionhealth.com/modernwisdom。
That's functionhealth.com/modernwisdom.
这是一个有趣的观点。
That's an interesting point.
我想知道，那些能够处理大量复杂事务的极其成功的人，是否与此有关？
I wonder if there's a correlation to, like, really successful human beings who can, like, handle, like, a lot of complexity.
某些大脑可能天生更能应对这种复杂性。
Like, certain brains probably can just handle it better.
对吧？
Right?
100%，我
100%, I
想。
think.
公平地说，不管你怎么评价埃隆，我觉得他的大脑确实很擅长这一点。
To be fair, like I mean, say what you want about Elon, but, like, I think that is something his brain does well with.
并行处理之王。
Parallel processing king.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
就是执行功能这件事。
That the the executive function thing.
但这就是为什么在保罗·格雷厄姆的说法中，你有‘创造者模式’和‘管理者模式’之分，或者
But this is why you have sort of maker mode and manager mode in Paul Graham language or
嗯。
Mhmm.
你知道，你通常会有一个首席运营官。
You know, you tend to have a a COO.
没错。
That's
对。
right.
然后你还会有一个首席创新官之类的角色。
And then you have, like, a chief innovation officer or something.
这两个人可能关系不错，但他们根本没什么共同点，真的。
And the two, they might be friends, but they've got fuck all in common Yeah.
除了他们为同一家公司工作之外。
Apart from the fact they work for the same
这就像我和我的COO吉姆，百分之百如此。
That's me and my COO Jim, a 100%.
他非常擅长打造列车，而我擅长的是让列车准点运行，还有车站里那些我不擅长也不感兴趣的事情。
Like, he is very I'm good at, like, building a train, and he is good about, like, keeping the trains running on time and just, like, you know, all the things with the train station that I'm not good at and not interested at.
你其实也在苹果工作过？
You also secretly worked at Apple?
是的。
Yes.
那感觉怎么样？
What was that like?
我在那儿待了大概五年。
I was there for, like, five years.
我在他们的特别项目组工作，负责苹果汽车的产品设计。
I was working in their special projects group doing product design on the Apple car.
我不知道我是不是该说这个。
I don't know if I'm supposed to say that.
这太酷了。
That's fucking sick.
所以你去NASA了？
So you went NASA?
嗯。
Yep.
苹果？
Apple?
严格来说，我在那里待了两年，为一家万圣节公司工作。
Technically, was two years in there where I worked for a Halloween company.
像服装吗？
Like costumes?
是的。
Yes.
服装。
Costumes.
好的。
K.
这感觉有点像转型。
It feels a little bit like a pivot.
我觉得你可以这么说，从NASA工程转向制作万圣节服装。
I think you can say that from NASA from NASA engineered to making Halloween costumes.
在NASA和苹果之间有一段短暂的间歇。
Brief hiatus in between NASA and Apple.
那是一个创业项目，因为我的第一个视频就是关于一个万圣节服装，前面和背后都贴着iPad。
It was like an entrepreneurial thing because my first video ever was a Halloween costume where an iPad on front and iPad in back of me.
你只要在衣服上剪个洞，进行FaceTime通话时就会看起来像你身体上有个洞。
You, like, cut a hole in the shirt, and it looks like you have a hole in your body if you do a FaceTime call.
因为朝前的FaceTime摄像头会捕捉到手部，然后显示在背后。
Because the FaceTime camera pointing forward will record the hand, and it shows it on the back.
这个视频非常火爆。
And it went really viral.
那就是我的第一个视频。
I that was my first ever video.
我当时想，天啊。
And I was like, dang.
我还有比这更多的点子。
I have more ideas than this.
从那以后，我基本上每个月都做一个视频。
So I basically done one video a month since then.
但有些人说，这主意不错，老兄，但我没那么多钱买1200美元的万圣节服装。
But part of that were people like, cool idea, bro, but I don't have $1,200 for Halloween costume.
所以第二年，我想，哦，我们就在T恤上设计个图案吧。
So the next year, I was like, oh, we just had a a design on the shirt.
比如说，一个吓人家伙的眼睛。
Let's say it was like some guy's scary guy looking eye.
然后我做了一个免费的应用程序，里面有一个会动的眼球，我录了下来。
And then I made a free app that had an eyeball that I filmed that was moving around.
如果你在T恤上剪个洞，用胶带把手机固定在背后，看起来就像你穿着一件会动的、超酷的T恤。
If you cut a hole in the shirt, duct tape your phone to the back of the shirt, it looks like you have this, like, animated T shirt that looked wild.
这个主意相当成功。
And it that was pretty successful.
所以我利用晚上和周末的时间拼命工作，开发了这个免费应用，制作了T恤。
So I did that, like, nights and weekends, grinding, made this free app, made the t shirts.
效果还不错，一年后，我把整个项目卖给了英国的一群人，他们做变形服和万圣节服装，之后我为他们工作了两年。
And it went well enough that, like, a year later, I sold the whole thing to these guys in The UK who make morph suits, Halloween costumes, and then I worked for them for two years.
所以这更像是一个创业机会。
And so that was like it was more of like an entrepreneurial opportunity.
嗯。
Mhmm.
人们都问：你怎么能离开NASA去做这个？
And people were like, how could you leave NASA for that?
但你知道，当时那种情况下，这真的很有道理。
But, like, it was, you know, it's one of those things that in in the moment, it made a lot of sense.
那可不是漫游车在火星上。
It wasn't The rover's on Mars.
是啊。
Yeah.
你知道吧？
You know?
你打算怎么办？
What are gonna do?
好的。
Okay.
然后你就去苹果公司了。
Then you do Apple.
我去查了你在线注册的所有专利。
I went and looked at all of the patents that you've got registered online.
数量可不少。
It's not a small number.
有不少呢。
There's quite a few.
你有
You got
嗯，有一项我是主要作者的，这其实是个有趣的故事，因为苹果有个人跟我说：嘿。
Well, there's one that I was, like, lead author on, which is actually a funny story because someone at Apple was like, hey.
你对YouTube有这么多酷的想法。
You have all these cool ideas for YouTube.
那你的苹果爆款创意在哪呢？
Where's your banger idea for Apple?
结果 literally 一周半后，我参加了一个关于某个无聊软件工具的会议。
And literally, like, a week and a half later, I'm in a meeting about some stupid software tool.
然后我突然想到：如果把虚拟现实和自动驾驶汽车结合起来会怎样？
And then I had this idea of like, what happens when you combine a virtual reality with a self driving car?
这会带来什么影响？
Like, what are the implications of that?
我 literally 开始发抖，因为我想：天啊。
And I literally started shaking because I was like, woah.
这里面有太多东西了。
There's so much here.
本质上，汽车是世界上最棒的运动模拟器。
Essentially, like a car is the world's greatest motion simulator.
所以如果你去游乐园玩运动模拟器，模拟向前移动时，它们只是让你向后倾斜。
So if you go to a amusement park and you have motion simulators to simulate moving forward, they just tilt you back like this.
但这时你的屁股会想：等等。
But then you your butt's like, wait.
但现在我的屁股上没有压力了。
But now there's no pressure on my butt.
这感觉不太对劲。
That doesn't feel quite right.
但在车里，你可以通过真正移动汽车来模拟向前运动。
But in a car, you could actually simulate moving forward by moving the car.
所以这里面有很多娱乐方式，也能避免晕动症。
So it's like there's a lot of entertainment and just ways not to get motion sick.
对吧？
Right?
因为大约有百分之四十的人会晕车。
Because, like, forty percent of people struggle for motion sickness.
我们即将进入自动驾驶汽车，虽然有了大把空闲时间，但如果你还得盯着窗外，这些时间就用不了。
We're gonna be in new self driving cars, but we have all this time, but you can't use it if you still have to stare out the window.
那么，有没有可能通过虚拟现实技术，让你的晕车感大大降低，从而能看电影或在电脑上工作？
So is there a way with virtual reality that you can actually be way less motion sick and actually watch movies or work on your computer?
专利里有很多内容，我们得到了所有想要的东西，这意味着我们是第一批真正研究这个问题的人。
And there's a lot in the patent, and we got, like, everything we asked for, which means we're sort of the first ones to really look at this.
我仍然认为这正在路上。
And I I still think that's coming down the pipeline.
你能做一些类似的事情吗？因为通常引发晕车的是后排座位，而不是前排，对吧？
Could you do something like because it it's typically the backup cars, not the front, right, that people have with motion sickness.
是的。
Yeah.
但那只是因为你看不到外面发生了什么。
But that's only because you can't see what's going on.
所以我的意思是，
So my point being,
我在想，你是否能以某种方式让车窗投射出你需要的内容，从而帮助人们感觉更好，而不是必须佩戴设备。
I wonder if you could somehow make the windows project the whatever you need in order to be able to help people feel better as opposed to having to wear it.
我正在思考如何将其整合到汽车本身中。
I'm trying to work out how you integrate it into the car itself.
是的。
Yeah.
但想象一下，虚拟现实和增强现实技术将发展到几乎就像戴太阳镜一样。
But, I mean, imagine though virtual reality in augmented, they're gonna get to a point where it's essentially wearing sunglasses.
所以它不再是笨重的大块头。
So it's not this big, luggy thing.
只要你的视野中能显示出汽车的运动状态和行驶方向，就能解决很多晕动症问题。
And as long as then you know, as long as you have things in your visual field showing the motion of the car and where it's gonna go, you can solve a lot of motion sickness.
对。
Right.
这样你就可以把电脑屏幕放在那里，只要能获取输入，就能继续工作。
And so then you can have your computer screen there and be working on it as long as you're getting the inputs.
但你也可以做类似游戏的事情，比如你离开家时，突然就像《侠盗猎车手》里那样，你的朋友刚抢了银行。
But you can also do, like, gaming stuff where it's like you pull up you know, you're leaving your house, but it's like a Grand Theft Auto insane where it's like you put this on, suddenly your buddy just robbed the bank.
他们正从楼梯上下来。
They're coming down the steps.
他们说：走。
They're like, go.
走。
Go.
走。
Go.
而你在现实中加速并感受到这种刺激。
And you're accelerating in real life and feeling that.
但在游戏中，你实际上能感受到这一切正在发生，因为系统知道你的目的地。
But in the game, you're actually, like, feeling that's actually happening because it knows your destination.
对。
Right.
所以在游戏里，当你进入小巷时，突然发现无路可走。
And so when in the game, you're coming up in the alley, and it's like, oh, there's nowhere to turn.
你完蛋了。
You're hosed.
但在最后一刻，你突然右转。
But at the last second, it's like, oh, you make a right.
现实中，那只是个右转。
In reality, that was just a right turn.
但在游戏里，这却像一场疯狂的逃脱。
But in the game, it was like this insane thing.
而且，周围还有好多其他车辆。
Also, you have all these other cars out.
你知道每个坑洼的位置。
You know where all the potholes are.
如果你闭上眼睛，我做过这个测试。
If you close your eyes, I've done this test.
如果你开过减速带或路肩，感觉就像碾过僵尸一样。
If you go over a pawler or a speed bump, it's it feels a lot like running over a zombie.
但在游戏中，对吧，实际上你在那里
But in the game, right, there's actually you where
爪钩的位置。
the pawl falls are.
开这个车是因为会有一些人真的不
Driving for this because there's gonna be some people that are really not
专注，这是自动驾驶。
focused This is it's autonomous driving.
这是虚拟现实与自动驾驶的结合。
This is virtual reality combined with autonomous driving.
那这意味着什么？
And what is the implication?
我只是在想，如果有人在正常驾驶时做这个会怎样。
I was just thinking about if somebody was to do this whilst trying to drive normally.
是的。
Yes.
这很糟糕。
That's bad.
伙计，你不允许这么做。
Guy, you're not allowed to do that.
好吧。
So okay.
鉴于你在AR/VR领域做了大量工作，也深入思考过这个问题，你的看法是什么？
What's your perspective given that you've done a lot of work in the ARVR space, you've thought about it a good bit.
你对它是如何被呈现的有什么看法？
What's your perspective on kind of how it's delivered?
因为我觉得我前女友给我买了一个Oculus Go，就是那种一体机。
Because I think I had a x x x girlfriend got me an Oculus Go, which was the all in one.
嗯。
Mhmm.
该死。
Fuck.
八年前左右吧。
Eight years ago or something like that.
我记得当时想，哇。
And I remember thinking, wow.
我的意思是，这其实还不错。
I mean, this is, like, pretty not bad.
有点像素化，但也不算差。
It's it is a bit pixelly, but this is not bad.
当然。
Surely.
当然。
Surely.
一点时间都没有。
No time at all.
这个马上就要来了。
This is gonna come.
是的。
Yeah.
苹果 Vision Pro，我们想说，我觉得归还的人和购买的人一样多，是的。
Apple Vision Pro, we would like to well, I think as many people returned them as bought them Yeah.
这对苹果来说就像是，哦。
Which for Apple is like, oh.
我知道。
I know.
也许这是 V1 版本，会很贵，而后续的降价会慢慢到来，一开始是 3 美元，但几年后可能就只卖 500 美元了，等等。
And maybe it's the v one, and it's gonna be expensive, and the trickle down, it's $3, but then it's only gonna be 500 in a few years' time and so on and so forth.
你觉得 AR 和 VR 技术在多大程度上实现了我们当初的预期？
How do you think the world of AR and VR technology has sort of delivered on the promises that we assumed?
那现在发生了什么？
And what's going on?
这个过程是怎样的？
What's the journey there?
他们就是没有杀手级应用。
They just don't have the killer app.
对吧？
Right?
每个人戴上它都会说，这是我经历过最疯狂的事情。
Like, it's everyone who puts it on is like, this is the most craziest thing I've ever experienced.
他们很喜欢，但之后就把设备搁在架子上，再也不碰了，我也一样。
And they love it, and then they put it on the shelf and never take it off the shelf, myself included.
我有过Go、Rift和Apple Vision Pro，但我从没用过它们。
I've had a Go, a Rift, and Apple Vision Pro, and I never use them.
我就希望他们能出一个杀手级应用。
And it's like, I wish they just had the killer app.
我是说，我想要的那个杀手级应用是什么？
Like, I would want What's the killer app?
我不知道。
I don't know.
比如，篮球比赛的场边视角。
Mean, like, courtside at a basketball game.
对吧？
Right?
让你能实时观看篮球比赛，仿佛你就坐在场边，甚至更好，坐在根本买不到票的座位上。
Give you access to like, I wanna watch the basketball game real time, like, I'm courtside, or even better, in a seat you can't even get.
把摄像头放在足球比赛的横梁上。
Put it on the crossbar at a at a soccer match.
对吧？
Right?
你根本坐不到那里。
You can't sit there.
但现在我可以观看一切了。
But now I get to watch everything.
梅西冲下来，球进了。
Messi's coming down, and it goes in.
对吧？
Right?
我不明白为什么他们还没抓住这个方面下手。
I don't understand why they haven't just attacked that aspect of it.
但现场体育赛事似乎是很好的起点。
But, like, live sports seems like a great first place to start.
我非常不倾向于阴谋论。
I'm very nonconspiratorial.
那是我的倾向。
That's a like, my tendency.
我倾向于相信主流观点。
I tend to believe the, like, mainstream Yeah.
在一定程度上。
To a degree.
我也是。
Same.
对……持怀疑态度
Skeptical of
是的。
Yeah.
大多数人。
Most people.
但你 okay 吗。
But Do you okay.
那你对阴谋论者有什么看法？
So what is your opinion on conspiracy theorists?
为什么他们会存在？
Like, why why do why do they exist?
比如，什么是？
Like, what is?
关于阴谋论者，我的看法是，他们很吸引人。
My opinion on conspiracy theorists, I think that they're exciting.
这些理论本身就很吸引人。
Like, the the the theories are exciting.
是的。
Yeah.
这是一种看待世界更令人兴奋的方式。
They're much more exciting way to think about the world.
是的。
Yeah.
其中很大一部分是所谓的补偿性控制理念。
A big part of it is this idea called compensatory control.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，如果你让人们想象一个不确定的医疗诊断，嗯。
So if you get people to imagine an uncertain medical diagnosis Mhmm.
他们就更有可能在随机的、无意义的静态中看到模式。
They're more likely to see patterns in random, meaningless static.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我认为，同样的事情在新冠疫情期间也发生了。
The same thing happened, I think, during COVID.
在有足够的证据证明实验室泄漏是真实之前，很多人就接受了这种说法，嗯。
Before there was enough evidence to know that the lab leak was legitimate, a lot of people hooked into that Mhmm.
因为认为这场全球大流行是由某个恶意的科学家造成的，要简单得多，嗯。
Because it's way easier to think that this global pandemic is because of some malign scientist Mhmm.
而不是某种微不足道的微生物偶然突变。
Than the chance mutation of some silly little microbe.
如果这一切是偶然的，那我对此又有什么控制力呢？
If it's up to chance, what control do I have over this?
但若我能将它拟人化，它就成了神话。
But if I can personify it so it's myth.
它是一种原型。
It's archetype.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这是一种神话。
It's mythology.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这就像是对这种东西的拟人化。
It's like a it's a personification of this.
有好有坏，有邪恶，哦，我认为其中很多都与控制有关。
There's good and there's bad and there's evil and, oh, I could have I think a lot of it is to do with control.
所以，就像有一个理由。
So, like, having a reason.
一个设计。如果共济会确实存在并掌控一切，那是一个很好的模型，能解释一切。
A design If the Illuminati exists and is running everything, it's a nice it's a nice model that just explains everything.
绝对如此。
Absolutely.
没错。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
我的意思是，这并不是全部。
I mean, it's not everything.
我相信肯定有一百万个原因。
There's I'm sure there's a million reasons.
我请过一些非常棒的人来讨论‘阴谋灵性’。
I've had some really great guys on that do conspirituality.
来自那个播客的德里克·贝拉斯非常有趣。
Derek Berras from that podcast was real interesting.
他们写了一本关于阴谋心理的书。
They know they wrote a book about the psychology of conspiracism.
但我对它很着迷，尽管我并不真正参与其中。
But I'm I'm kinda fascinated by it even though I'm not I get to watch it.
就像有人热爱一项运动，而你却对它不感兴趣。
It's like, I don't know, someone else loving a sport and you not being a fan of it.
是的。
Yeah.
观看这些还挺有意思的。
It's kind of interesting to watch this.
你觉得呢？
What do think?
你对阴谋论者有什么看法？
What's your perspective on conspiracy theorists?
我觉得差不多。
I think similar.
我认为作为人类，我们天生就倾向于识别模式。
I think as humans, we're just hardwired to recognize patterns.
从进化角度看，这可能对我们生存很有帮助。
Like, that's probably evolutionarily, like, been good and helped us survive.
比如，每次那些灌木丛动了四五次，老虎就出来了，我就会形成一种模式，认为那就是规律。
If you you know, every time those bushes moved, you know, four to five times a tiger came out, I'm gonna make a pattern that that's what's happening.
对吧？
Right?
我真的能理解他们，很有同理心。
I think I think I have empathy for them, really.
比如，当人们看到地平说者之类的人时，就会说：‘你真是个傻瓜。’
Like, when people even, like, Flat Earthers and stuff, and they're like, you idiot.
你知道，他们不愿意去审视那些与他们信念相悖的证据，因为他们有动力去维持这些信念。
Like, you know, they're not willing to look at evidence that goes counter to what they believe because they're incentivized to keep those beliefs.
他们有一个社群。
They have a community.
他们有朋友。
They have friends.
归属感。
Belonging.
他们有归属。
They belong.
猜猜怎么样？
And guess what?
像这样，几乎每个听这个的人，包括我自己，都有一些这样的信念
Like, pretty much everyone listening to this, myself included, all have some beliefs
那样的。
like that.
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